hitting back today on "morning joe." >> i am reaching out to everyone, republicans, democrats, independents, everyone who is as troubled as i am by the bigotry and divisiveness of donald trump's campaign. >> and we'll have much more from that exclusive interview straight ahead. the republican party fearing donald trump's slump in the polls will be contagious. how they plan to save their seats in congress ahead. begin with another statement on immigration from donald trump suggesting all undocumented immigrants will have to leave the united states if he's elected president. >> if they haven't committed a crime, is there going to be a path to legalization? i'm talking about citizenship. >> no there is not a path -- there is no path to citizenship. unless people leave the country -- well, when they come back in, if they come back in, they can start paying taxes. >> so they still have -- >> there is no path to legalization unless they leave the country and come back. >> here's what anderson was

referring to. a different statement earlier in the week saying he was willing to relax his stance on the issue. >> is there any part of the law that you might be able to change that would accommodate those people that contribute to society, have been law-abiding, have kids here. would there be any room in your mind or -- because i know you had a meeting this week. >> i had a meat with great people. great hispanic leaders. there certainly can be a softening because we're not looking to hurt people. we have some great people in this country. we have some great, great people in this country. we're going to follow the laws of this country. >> nbc's katy tur is covering the trump campaign. trump's opponents have a little policy whiplash here. trump says he hasn't pivoted or softened his position on illegal immigration. you've been talking to the campaign. help us make some sense of this. >> donald trump said he was softening.

there could be room for softening and then last night said it was a hardening. the campaign isn't offering much in way of clarification right now. safe to say that they are not calling this a flip flop, that donald trump has always upheld the laws of this country. but where donald trump stands on the issue of immigration and the issue of deportations remains unclear at this moment. we know that he still is very much an advocate for building a wall and having mexico pay for it. but whether he is for deporting undocumented immigrants or fighting a path to legalization, that is something that is just not clear at this moment. the campaign says donald trump says it will have a clarification coming up in the coming week. he's going to have an immigration policy speech. if it's something like his terror speech, which was supposed to give a clarification on the muslim ban, it's not going to be much of a clarification at all because that still is a very muddy issue for the campaign as well. is it a muslim ban or just a

territory ban? so the campaign is finding it hard and struggling to define itself, but donald trump, meanwhile, is finding that his supporters don't seem to find that. that they are more about him as a leader and him as a personality than they are about him as a politician with clearly established policies. >> so trump's new campaign manager kellyanne conway has set up to focus trump's messaging. are we expect anything clarity on this in the coming days? >> she has set out to clarify. you're absolutely right. at the same time, this is a unique candidate that's been hard to clarify. we've seen that's with paul manafort in the past. corey lewandowski would just say you have to ask donald trump. this is the issue with donald trump. he'll say one thing one day and say a completely difference thing the next day. sometimes two contradictory things in the span of three sentences. so will donald trump come out and make this issue more clear?

will he come out and say definitively, i am for deportations in this regard? we'll have to wait and see. but my gut says he's going to try and be a little vaguer as he has in the past because that enables his supporters to fill in the gaps. decide what they like about his immigration policy, what he said in the past and ascribe it to him because they would like to support him in november. >> katy tur at trump tower, thank you. i want to turn to boris. you're laughing. but there's an awful lot of people out there, including supporters of donald trump, who are confused about what he has to say. >> that's amazing reporting by katy, what her gut says. >> i would like to hear the gut of somebody that's been with the campaign from the beginning and has some understanding of the campaign and how it's developed. let's not talk about that. that's talk about your candidate. >> right. >> because people are confused. is there a path to legalization? if there is, what is it?

>> the only way to legalization is for illegal immigrants who are not criminals who have not committed crimes in this country to go back and reapply. >> so the vast majority of people who are currently in this country, and when you say criminals, what do you mean? so if they have been in this country but they are not here legally, do they have to leave? 11 million, 12 million people. >> let's take a step back. >> it's a simple straightforward question. >> somebody is an illegal immigrant and they've committed a crime in this country -- >> so i just want to make sure because there's been some nebulousness around that. >> a crime outside of being here illegally. >> so if they've committed a crime outside of being here illegally -- >> does that include a traffic ticket? >> they are deported. that will be up to the department of justice to determine. if they've committed a crime -- >> but your candidate doesn't have a stance on what will reach that level of criminality? >> there is a standard. there is going to be a specific

standard. >> a very specific standard. we'll hear it over the next week. >> week or so. so there will be specific standards. but again, if they've committed a crime that rises to a certain level, they'll be deported. so we'll prevent issues like the one in san francisco and connecticut. horrible events that have occurred because of the sanctuary cities. we'll make sure everify is in place. a real concrete step to cure the illegal immigration problem. >> those things have been very clear. he has been consistent on that and consistent about building a wall. for the 11 million, 12 million who are here, for the people they work for, for the friends, their colleagues, the other people in their communities, and for just people out there who want to know what donald trump stands for, we're trying to figure out, all right, so if you have committed a crime, you get deported. >> right. >> is there a path to come back in for those people? >> not if you commit a crime. >> he's talking about having to

leave the country and then coming back -- >> that's for the illegal immigrants who are here illegally but wohaho have not committed a crime. >> 12 million people will have to leave the country? >> if they want to have a shot at being citizens in this country -- >> they have to leave and go back to the country they came from? >> leave and go back to the country they came from. >> first he said there's a softening. >> he never did say -- >> he did say there's a softening. >> it was part of a discussion. he's been very consistent at the points here. one, all illegal immigrants who committed crimes will be deported. >> and stay away. >> the rest who are here illegally will be treated according to the laws on the books, additional laws and humanely. he's always said humanely. >> but humanely in his interpretation of humanely, you have to leave the country. >> if you want a path to legalization in this country, if you want any sort of path to

beingegally, you have to leave the country. >> he understand ls it's a very complicated issue to try to think about telling 12 million people they have to leave this country. he's come up with a plan now about how he's going to do that? >> let me ask you a question. hillary clinton has flip-flopped on the tpp, literally direct 180 reversal. >> and we've challenged her. >> i don't remember that happening. >> i've challenged people who have been spokesmen for her. i'm not going to speak for the media as a whole. but he said there was a softening. now said there's a hardening. katrina pearson says he has just changed the words he's using, but you are being much more specific here. i mean, he's been running for more than a year. and i think, you know, here we are at a point where we are a couple months away, and we still don't have a clear statement of where he stands. >> it's a binary choice. >> is it going to come in the next week or so? >> it's a binary choice between

donald trump who will build a wall to keep out illegal immigrants and folks who want to hurt this country like terrorists who come through illegally. he'll build a wall. mexico will pay for the wall. two, he'll deport all illegal immigrants who committed crimes. three, he'll handle the rest of them according to the laws and constitution. we've been very open and direct. and the other choice is hillary clinton who has a 100-day amnesty plan, wants to increase syrian refugees. that's what the voters need to know. they don't need to compare donald trump now to donald trump two days ago. that's a waste of everyone's time. there's a binary choice november 8th. donald trump who will keep this country safe and keep america's jobs in america, and hillary clinton who doesn't want to have america to be a country anymore. >> well, i'm not even going to go there. i'm going to go back to what you said. 61% of those surveyed by pew recently are opposed to building a wall along the u.s./mexican border.

76% believe the vast majority of people in this country as immigrants but not legally are hardworking and honest. does donald trump believe that with these stances he is taking, that he's going to build the wall, that the people who are here who are not legally here have to leave is representative of the american people? >> two things, chris. in 2008, hillary clinton was in favor of barrier between mexico and the united states. she's flip-flopped on that issue like she has on pretty much everything else, wherever the wind blows. two, we're not in this for politics. we're not in this for polls. we're in this to keep america safe, to keep american jobs in america with americans and make sure this country -- >> he hired a well known pollster ahead of his campaign. you don't care about the polls? >> it's not what a number on a pew poll says about what folks feel about a wall. it's about what we know what's best for this country. what's best for this country is

folks who are here are here legally and can be except track of. they can't kill people in san francisco and connecticut. that's not something blts on a poll or feeling. it's based on necessity for this country to make sure we're safe. i'm an immigrant. my country came here legally. we went through a long process and waited in line. i firmly do not believe anyone else should be able to cut the line. i talk to people all day who feel the same from all over the world. >> boris, great to see you. coming up, in an exclusive interview on msnbc, hillary clinton defends the clinton foundation but avoided specifics about its future if she wins the presidency. could control be given to other foundations, and how complex a change would that be? later odonald trump and hillary clinton not the only ones on the ballot this november. but their contest is affecting the down ballot races. could the democrats take back the senate. we'll be right back.

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are you certain there are no e-mails or foundation ties to foreign entities that will be revealed that could perhaps permanently impact your presidential prospects? >> mika, i am sure. and i am sure because i have a very strong foundation of understanding about the foundation. my work as secretary of state was not influenced by any outside forces. i made policy decisions based on what i thought was right to keep

americans safe and protect our interests abroad. >> hillary clinton saying unequivocally that she is sure her e-mails are not a liability for her going forward in this campaign. i want to bring in jonathan allen from roll call. good to see you. good afternoon. >> good to see you, chris. >> hillary clinton has been saying this for a while. she feels confident about what's out there. you have julian assange saying there's thousands of more documents he's going to leak. >> i'm sure they're very nervous about what might still be out there. these are things in terms of a lot of these personal e-mails the fbi has already looked through, but this causes embarrassment and stories like the one ap had from the ap earlier this woeek that everyboy has been talking about. >> joe scarborough asked hillary clinton about whether her argument is that programs like the ones they have that have been very successful in the fight against aids would stop

progressing if the foundation transferred assets. take a listen to her answer. >> that fight is not dependent on the clinton foundation remaining in place, is it? >> well, we're going to be testing that. and that's why, you know, the foundation is looking for partners and there are, you know, there are potential partners for some of the work, but not necessarily the same partner for all of the work. >> so what is she saying? do we have any clarity on what's going to happen if she's elected president? what are they doing now? >> no, i think we don't have any clarity on what she'd do as president. we heard if bill clinton would step off of the board. they'd stop taking donations from foreign governments and -- >> and we've heard chelsea would stay on the board. >> chelsea would stay on the board. they raised an endowment of $250 million telling donors basically that they wanted to to be able to operate if hillary clinton became president of the united

states or if for some other reason the clintons were not able to raise money for the foundation. for a couple of years they were telling people this is the time to donate so they don't have to fund-raise in the presidential campaign. you aren't hearing a lot from them. the public needs to have faith the president of the united states is not unduly influences to people donating to a foundation with her family's name on it, involved with her family, making donations to her campaign or have paid her personal money for speeches. hillary clinton will probably have to answer for that before the election. how is she going to safeguard from being unduly influenced by more than just saying, take my word for it. i'm not influenced. >> if they're going to, as some have suggested, hand off major portions of this to the gates foundation or look at very aspects of it and say we're going to turn this over to another foundation and another charity, there are complexities involved in that that she stated

this morning. and that's correct. but i guess the question is, are they moving quickly enough? aggressively enough. and if -- is there a judgment that there really is no consequence for doing anything different than they already are? >> well, if nothing changes and she wins the election, i guess the clinton foundation survives some bad press and she survives bad press and both were able to prosper afterward. i think the public maybe loses out on having safeguards there. and, you know, if this looked like it was hurting her in polling, i think there would be a faster move to make changes. but she maintains that nothing improper has ever happened. certainly no evidence of any quid pro quo that has arisen in any of these stories and e-mails. oouf done a lot of research on the clinton foundation. all kinds of connections between donors to the foundation and her cam ppaign donors and people wh lobbied the state department. nobody has shown any evidence that one thing was given for

another and that sort of direct legal way. the question for voters is whether they are comfortable with the ethics of all of that. and then beyond that, whether that issue is bigger than all the other issues in the campaign. right now, hillary clinton seems to be doing pretty well as the polls show. >> given all the big stories that were out there between the candidates this week, which included immigration, as i just talked to boris about, included the clinton foundation and some other big things including race and bigotry, who had the better week? who had the worse week? >> i think it started out as a bad week for hillary clinton and became a bad week for donald trump who couldn't keep things focusod the clinton foundation by talking about immigration as he has and, of course, with clinton making the race speech yesterday. >> jonathan allen, good to see you. thank you. coming up, chelsea handler stopping by our msnbc studios today to talk everything from the leslie jones cyberhack to

her thoughts on the race for president and specifically on the republican nominee. >> he says whatever he can say to be stay in the news because that's what worked for him. but what it comes down to it as we've seen, he's uncontrollable. he's like a toddler. it's like basically having a toddler in the white house. be the you who doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara®

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comcast is on track to connect 3 million people in need to low cost, high speed internet at home, helping to make sure that every hand in the classroom goes up. male teacher: okay, veronica. amphibian. male teacher: excellent. welcome to a brighter future. welcome to it all. comcast. welcome back. donald trump fund-raising in vegas this afternoon. his campaign trying to set the record straight on his immigration stance saying there will not be a pathway for illegal immigrants. donald trump trying to turn the tables on hillary clinton after her speech on race yesterday. and president obama, vice president biden and bernie sanders will all campaign for the democratic nominee over the next couple of weeks. sources confirming that to nbc news. the event with president obama

is on the 13th of september, the same day a judge just ordered the state department to start turning over some of those e-mails the fbi uncovered. the food and drug administration said that all blood donations should be tested for the zika virus. the fda's new guidance is not binding but is routinely followed at blood donation centers. florida is deal with an ever-expanding zika threat. and then that disturbing news out of mississippi where two nuns who worked as nurses and helped the poor in rural areas were found slain in their home. officials say they could have been the victims of a break-in or vehicle theft. authorities not commenting if they have a suspect. new aftershocks in italy overnight as that country continues to deal with the aftermath of the 6.2 magnitude earthquake that hit wednesday. 278 people have died and officials are now planning a state funeral for saturday. for more let's turn to lizzy cavanaugh who has the latest

from amatrice. >> day three of search and rescue operations now well into the evening here in amatrice. but rescue teams are planning to work through the night, not giving up hope. one of the things authorities here keep referring to is 2009 earthquake where they were able to pull out one man who survived 72 hours in that rubble. that's giving them the motivation to keep on digging. a lot of folks saying there are still people missing and that's why they're not giving up. in terms of the lo s os o s os it's increasingly difficult to do the operations because of the wave after wave of aftershocks this region has been experiencing this morning. the most powerful one, 4.8 magnitude. as a result of that, several roads leading into the city were rendered unusable leaving basically one windy, narrow road. that's the only thing they can take equipment in and out on, pl ambulances in and out on. also dangerous for the workers.

on saturday, we're expecting a lot of emotion. reality setting in. funerals will be taking place, including a large state funeral for those who have lost their lives. for the ordinary people who survived, a lot of questions about why this took place. this town, this region lies in a fault line. it's prone to earthquakes. should these ancient medieval buildings have been reinforced by authorities? that's a question folks will be asking. if you see the structure that's destroyed behind me, that was a school. and back in 2012, the local officials here spent nearly $1 million reinforcing it. it was supposed to be earthquake-proof. as you can see behind me, now a mountain of rocks, dufst and rubble. a lot of questions for why these kinds of operations did not pan out the way they were supposed to. >> lucy cavanaugh in amatrice. a short time ago, chelsea handler stopped by to talk some politic s with thomas roberts.

she also had a lot to say about what's going on with fellow actress and comedian leslie jones. they're investigating a hack into the "ghostbuster" star's personal records. here's what chelsea handler had to say. >> i think what happened is disgusting. i think that it is -- i think there should be a federal investigation about it. it's completely justified, and i think that anybody who behaves like that, i mean, there should be ramifications for that. punishment. people who post -- who hack into somebody's website and unveil or all of those private things, on top of posting a video of a gorilla? that should be punishable with jail. you should be in jail. not allowed to behave that way. coming up, donald trump calls hillary clinton a bigot. clinton responds with an ad

tying trump to fringe elements supporting him. are there any winners when playing the politics of hate? hey listen, when you tell our friends about your job, maybe let's play up the digital part. buit's a manturing job. yeah, well ge is doing a lot of cool things digitally to help maines communicate, might want to at least mention that. i'm building world-changing machines. with my two hands. does that threaten you? no! don't be silly. i'm just, uh, going to go to chop some wood. with that?

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hey guys! now i'm back. aleve pm for a tter am. do you want white supremacists to vote for you? >> no, i don't at all. this is not about hate. this is about love. >> donald trump in new hampshire yesterday evening asked point blank if he wanted the white supremacist vote. hillary clinton hitting trump for allowing the radical fringe a spot in the republican party. let me bring in joy reed and rashad robinson, executive director of color of change, a racial justice organization. thank you both for being here. here's the question i have. these accusations and exchanges of bigotry. have brought to the forefront a very important question about these alt-right groups. are we talking about just a tiny, small number of people who are getting a big voice, or are

there a lot of people out there who really think this way who they are giving voice to? >> we're talking about a new set of leaders in a new industry that has developed. really sort of in response and connected to the tea party that's really grown and allowed for folks with white supremacist views to -- >> you aren't suggesting people in the tea party of racist. >> not necessarily but what it does it allows people to connect these sort of views with policies and mainstream policies that will have sort of the same impact as many of the white supremacist policies of old. it's not saying that necessarily everyone in the tea party is white supremacist but it allows for folks who have these views to be able to reach a broader platform because they sort of taken off the hood, they've put on suits and are able to reach a larger audience. >> i was talking to the ceo of the anti-defamation league and a

big part of this is the online engagement. let me play what he had to say. >> the same people espousing this ideology were burning crosses 40 years ago. today we're burning up twitter. >> a lot of it is done online, right? >> a lot of it is done online. they've gone after journalists in the press online. we've seen hatred directed at journalists who are jewish. >> you take these words and phrases and they do become more mainstream. is that the real danger here? he even suggested that here we have decades of progress in fighting hate and this is making its way back into the conversation. >> you can describe the alt-right as a virus seeking a host. groups of people that have called themselves everything from racialists to anti-immigration. they are the next generation of what used to be over hate groups like the klan but this younger

generation, we're more tech savvy, media savvy have openly said one of the things they love about donald trump is that he is allowing them into the mainstream. it's not that they are the people who founded something like the tea party but if they see an organization or entity that's almost all white n it's attracting disaffected white americans, they see that as something to grab onto. th in people in the alt-right have been aggressive about saying, number one, they want to shatter political correctness, shatter the idea there are limits to things you can say in order to normalize the idea of speaking about race in a way that most people consider today to be offensive. and the second thing is they want to shatter the republican party. one of the things people under way with the alt-right is one of their biggest enemies are conservatives. they think conservatives are too soft, too weak and have allowed their movement to be, quote, feminized. >> the white supremacist publication american renaissance said this in reaction to hillary clinton's speech dchd defending

their own movement. there is a very broad overlap between the races, but they differ in average levels of intelligence and in other traits. people of different races do not build identical societies. and it goes on in that vain. i ran into joy after i read that in the hallway and i was going a little crazy here. but this is not a typical of these groups. they are just now feeling like we'll put out a statement. say how we really feel. >> i think joy is right in this idea that the internet, because it allows you to sort of speak directly to audiences that agree to you, get choirs to aim in me what you've been saying. threads that have been able to live on it because people were going after one another, saying things that would never be able to be said on any type of network programming but people were having these changes to go after corporations to push back.

we've also seen people in the mainstream for years then go back, whether it's through the internet or through other channels speak in code to their audience. just several years ago when pat buchanan published his book, "the end of white america" he went on a show and almost slipped when he called president obama's mom an ethnomasochist. one could imagine you put the two words together it was because president obama's mom dated and had children and married men of color. so this idea that these -- this language and this coded language hasn't existed for years, what's we're seeing now is what joy has said. donald trump has publicly given voice to it. he hasn't needed mainstream conservative money to run or to mount a campaign. as a result has been able to give voice to people who felt voiceless. >> he's pushing back now just

releasing an instagram ad criticizing comment for her comment back in the '90s when she talked about kids who were superpreddors. how quickly people forget that crooked hillary called african-american youth super predators. has she apologized? she actually has. and he brought up her support for the crime bill her husband signed into law. is that stuff fair game? >> one of the things that these sort of alt-right people have tried to use as a wedge is the idea the real racism comes from black people speaking about race. that's one pocket of it. attempting to take the things the clintons have said in the past. the clintons had a tough time in 2008. hillary clinton has said some things in the past that have put her on the wrong side of issues of race. she also has a long history, whether working under the edelmans in terms of working for civil rights. and they have lengthy relationships in the

african-american community. and the crime bill was supported by half of the congressional black caucus. it was during a time of high crime within the african-american community. a lot of people who spoke in inartful ways about it. the difference is donald trump is hardly the person who can call her to account given his history of housing discrimination. not something he said but something he did. his history with the central park five. even if you can make valid criticisms of certain things hillary clinton has said, and you can, it's really tough for donald trump to go there given his own history. >> when these moments happen, he doesn't disavow them. he doesn't speak to what he's going to do. he simply tries to deflect back to hillary clinton. we will have a conversation with hillary clinton, and she will be held accountable for anything that happens. that's part of the political process. now we're having a discussion about trump and what is he going to say about his record? >> rashad robinson and joy reed.

we'll be watching tomorrow," a.m. joy." senator mccain is facing a primary challenge for his seat just four days from now. his struggling republican challenger is a physician, dr. kelly ward down 26 points in the latest arizona poll. she says it's time for mccain to retire. ward telling politico, i'm a doctor. the life expectancy of the american male is not 86. it's less. here she is talking to my colleague craig melvin earlier this afternoon. >> calling a guy too old for the job, it would seem to be a bit of a risky move in a place like arizona where according to the u.s. census, i believe at least 16%, 17% of the population is over the age of 65. >> yeah, i'll tell you -- >> is this a wise argument to alienate your older voters? >> on the campaign trail, to a person, every single voter over age 70 has said to me they believe john mccain needs to retire.

>> all of them? everyone you've talked to over the age of 70 has said -- >> every voter over the age of 70 has told me. they know what he's going through. they know his limitations and they don't want that in the united states senate. >> what limitations? >> let me just finish -- >> no, but that's -- no, wait a minute. what limitations? >> elderly patients for many, many years. and my job has been to assure that they have high quality of life. and i'll tell you the best way for john mccain and the people of arizona to have high quality life is put john mccain into retirement on tuesday. >> mccain dismissing ward's attacks saying desperate candidates too often end up embarrassing themselves by launching dishonorable personal attacks. senator john mccain running for his sixth term in the senate will be 80 years old on monday. that didn't make cars made plastics that make them lighter? the lubricants that improved fuel economy. even technology to make engines more efficient. what company does all this?

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right now. that's significant. there are negotiators in place in switzerland for a long time. they are trying to hammer out a deal that would, over time, end the syrian war. it's very significant. kerry just said that the deal hasn't been reached, that they've completed the vast majority of technical discussions but they're not going to rush into finalizing the deal. >> do we know what those issues are? >> i've been speaking to a negotiator involved with trying to work out this framework. and there are basically four main points. according to this negotiator, they are very close. the american negotiating team or some of them think the deal is effectively done. they're just trying to work out the last-minute modalities. but it is a hard deal. it is very broad and has significant consequences. one would be unfettered access to places in crisis nationwide.

so allow in humanitarian aid everywhere in syria. a big ask but dramatic consequences. two, that russia would have to commit itself to putting pressure on the syrian regime which is its partner to make sure syria allows the cease-fire to take place. allows humanitarian access to go in. a commitment from russia. that would be point two. point three, a transition in government to -- committing to a process in which a new syrian government would be elected through a referendum. that's a contentious point but just committing to a process that would allow for political transition and a nationwide cease-fire. stopping the guns. >> all of those complex in and of themselves. what is the chance this actually leads to something or is it potentially the beginning of the end? >> analysts and this negotiator

i spoke to frankly were quite skeptical. everybody supports the idea of a humanitarian cease-fire. of political transition, of access for people who are into access to humanitarian supplies for people in danger. >> could this be a situation -- >> but how this actually happens is going to be complicated. >> you look at the transition and how fraught that would be, is it possible that this could happen one by one by one? let's have a cease-fire long enough to get humanitarian aid in. >> if this deal is signed, and i think we're close to this deal. and the negotiator in geneva thinks they are very close and the white house came out today and said we're not there yet. >> they don't want to raise expectations. >> we've completed the vast majority but don't want to rush into a deal. the way it would take place is a cease-fire would theoretically go into effect.

there would be a period of wait and see. to see if this actually happens if the russians are really pressuring the assad government. if the assad government really is stopping the guns. if the rebels stop the guns, there's so many independent and semi independent actors it's going to be a hard one to control. if that happens over a period of a month, for example, then you would move on to the next phase and next phase and next phase. unfortunately, it is fraught with a lot of challenges. but you have to start from somewhere. you have to start from somewhere. having two major powers involved in this conflict, meet, discuss with technical teams trying to work on a solution is undoubtedly better than nothing. >> standing side by side publicly makie ining these stats and commitments to move forward. richard engel, thank you. still to come, the politics of hate have become the headline of the presidential race this past week.

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abe the you who talks to your cldermatologist about stelara®. do you think donald trump is personally a bigot or a racist? because he said you are. >> well, joe, all i can do is point to the evidence of what he has said and what he has done. >> is donald trump a racist? >> i don't know, but he says things -- >> tim kaine and hillary clinton focusing in on their donald trump message. joining me on set, mike peska,

host of slate's podcast the gist and eleana johnson from national review. good to see you both. you have all these charges and countercharges, racism, bigotry. does it benefit one candidate or another, do you think, or is this a case where it's just the american people looking and saying this is why we hate politics? >> definitely the second part is true. you have to wade into it. it was a wise choice by hillary clinton. i discount the trump charge. his evidence he's a big ots is, wh what, that black people haven't flourished. her charges against him about the alt-right connections in his campaign are something that not only democrats should think about and republicans should think about because there's a countenancing and a guilt by association. it's more than association. he wades in those waters, and she's pointing it out. sure, it's to her political

benefit to point it out and taint him with that. if we go down that road, that's not good for our democracy. >> there was a focus group. it was undecided wisconsin voters yesterday. the headline that came out was a bleak choice between a liar and your drunk uncle. liar and drunk uncle being the words of two panelists. clinton, untrustworthy. can either candidate somehow become anything other than the lesser of two evils here? >> i think at this point, tremendously difficult. that focus group in wisconsin really showed in microcosm what we've seen on a more general level in polls for several months now. voters are telling pollsters they find hillary clinton untrustworthy and donald trump unfit to be president on a temperamental basis. and these candidates are so

famous and the impressions of them so baked in among the american public it would be tremendously difficult for either one of them to change those impressions at this point in the game with less than three months until the election in november. >> wisconsin, clinton has a 15-point lead. if that focus group is split, unless trump is gaining significant ground, he's not going to win in wisconsin. of those two perjoratives, it seems untrustworthy may be true. but that's the process by which she comes back to her decisions. but incompetent, just as a disqualification for office. that is saying you cannot do the job as president. there was once a president names clinton who was judged untrustworthy. bill clinton at the time of impeachment. 70% said he was untrustworthy, but he was so popular. >> the final effect, whatever the outcome, even if it stays where it is now and hillary clinton wins by ten points that it suppresses votes? a lot of people are going to

decide because of this lesser of two evils, one being untrustwork the other unqualified, they throw up their hands, i can't vote for either of them? >> that's what negative campaigning does. barack obama won by more votes than ever and he was extremely unpopular for the majority of his presidency. >> but very popular now and we should point out he'll be on the campaign trail with her. and then we have maine's governor paul lepage. he's gotten into a little trouble before. he's apologized for a voice mail he left for a state lawmaker. local media claimed he called the governor a racist so he made this phone call. take a listen to the voice mail. >> this is governor paul richard lepage. i would like to talk to you about your comments about my being a racist, you [ bleep ]. and i want to talk to you. you -- i want you to prove that

i'm a racist. i've spent my life helping black people and you little son of a [ bleep ] socialist [ bleep ], you -- i need you to just friggin' -- i want you to record this and make it public because i am after you. thank you. >> and so he made it public and then he apologized. but again, back to that point, you wonder, does this just play in maine? does the rest of the country laugh at it or does this play into the larger narrative that politics has gone off the rails and, come november, maybe even an unprecedented number of people will stay home in a country that, frankly, doesn't exactly have a stellar percentage of people voting. >> i don't see this incident in maine playing into a larger narrative. i have to say, governor lepage's comments were inappropriate, inadvisable, unprofessional, vulgar and so on --

>> and he got what he asked for. he wanted it public. they made it public. >> the guy lost his cool. we're seeing historic things happen on the presidential level. let's reserve our outrage for the things that deserve real outrage. i wouldn't put that phone call into that category. i have to say. >> so where does this go from here? we've only got like 30 seconds left, but i want to get it from each of you. is this campaign headed in the direction we think it is and what the polls suggest it is? or could there be, for example, after the first debate, a change. >> i absolutely think there could be but it would have to be hillary clinton screwing up or news coming out about her that really altered this election in donald trump's favor in some dramatic way. if you are trump, you don't want to count on a black swan event. >> trump is losing time and keeps putting his foot in the mouths and getting distracted. he's not giving himself the opportunity to gain ground. >> mike and illeana, good to see

you both. have a good weekend. that's going to do it this hour. i'm chris jansing. "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's friday, if you can't beat them, join them. tonight, donald trump's position on immigration, perhaps he has no position. >> there certainly can be a softening because we're not looking to hurt people. i've had people say it's a hardening actually. >> after clinton attacked trump for what she deems racist rhetoric. >> trump is reinforcing harmful stereotypes. and offering a dog whistle to his most hateful supporters. >> republicans react with the sound of silence. where are the trump supporters? and a rhetorical race to the bottom. why our political discourse has become so offcourse. this is "mtp daily." and it starts right now.