you both. have a good weekend. that's going to do it this hour. i'm chris jansing. "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's friday, if you can't beat them, join them. tonight, donald trump's position on immigration, perhaps he has no position. >> there certainly can be a softening because we're not looking to hurt people. i've had people say it's a hardening actually. >> after clinton attacked trump for what she deems racist rhetoric. >> trump is reinforcing harmful stereotypes. and offering a dog whistle to his most hateful supporters. >> republicans react with the sound of silence. where are the trump supporters? and a rhetorical race to the bottom. why our political discourse has become so offcourse. this is "mtp daily." and it starts right now.

good evening and welcome to "mtp daily." i'm chuck todd here in washington. what a week it's been. is this bottom? you can only hope. just when you thought this election cycle couldn't get any nastier, we seem to have hit yet another new low. >> a man with a long history of racial discrimination who traffics in dark conspiracy theories. >> you called last night hillary clinton a bigot. previously called her policies bigoted. you directly called her a bigot. >> she is. her policies are bigoted. >> so 74 days until election day. we're left wondering if there are any lines left that won't be crossed. we'll dive into that a little more later in the show. first trump and his rhetoric this week that hasn't been bombast ic. it's been bewildering. his hard-line stance on

immigration got him traction during the republican primary and the nomination. it's the most potent issue for many in the republican voting base. the campaign began making a pitch to minority voters. and that kicked off a week of dizzyingly different positions on immigration. >> the existing laws are very strong. the existing laws, the first thing we're going to do, if and when i win, is we're going to get rid of all the bad ones. we want to do it in a very humane manner. >> you seem to in the last week be revisiting the issue of sending everybody back that is here illegally. tell us where you stand on that? >> we want it follow the laws. and i don't know if you know, but bush and even obama sends people back. now we can be more aggressive in that, but we want to follow the laws. >> what about people that work hard, have been here a long time. they own homes. they have their property. this is a question everyone is

going to want answered. what about them? do they have to go back or would you reconsider them? >> we are going to follow the laws of the country. >> that means they go back? >> there certainly can be a softening because we're not looking to help people. >> here's the big question, though. no citizenship? >> no citizenship. let me go a step further. they'll pay back taxes. they have to pay taxes. there's no amnesty as such. there's no amnesty, right. >> is it your point still to deport 11 million illegal immigrants? >> we have a very strong stance. we're going to build a wall. it's going to be a wall like no other. we're going to do things that are very strong. only the right people. only people that go through a very, very tough vetting process are coming into the country. >> we're going to deport many people. many, many people. >> the vast majority of those 11 million are not criminals. >> if they haven't committed a crime is there going to be a path to -- >> first thing we're going to --

no, there's not a pass. there is no path to legalization. >> you talked about paying taxes. >> unless people leave the country, when they come back in, they can start paying taxes. >> so they still -- >> there is no path to legalization unless they leave the country and come back. >> you used the word softening. last night on hannity, you -- >> i don't think it's a softening. >> 11 million people oar. >> i say it's a hardening. >> you have that now? are you clear? donald trump, he's got himself, a little bit like that old joke, the only thing in the middle of the road are yellow lines and dead armadillos. let's talk to katy tur. obviously, on this issue of immigration, on one hand we know what he's trying to do to win some general election voters he hasn't been able to win. he does risk alienating the base of his supporters that launched his candidacy. he's supposed to clear this up. is it going to happen next week

or not? they're being vague about maybe a speech next week or the week after. what's happening? >> donald trump himself has said he's going to clarify it in the next week or so. that's about as good an indication as we have right now there's going to be a policy speech on immigration. he does risk alienating his base as you said but i've got to tell you. i've gone to a few rallies and people, a, didn't seem to have a clear idea of what donald trump's position was on immigration when it comes to deportations, and even if they were for the deportation of all 11 million undocumented immigrants, they told me they didn't mind if he softened it. they understood it was probably not something legally feasible, and they also believe that donald trump is not somebody they look to when it comes to hard n fast policy positions. he's somebody they believe in as a person, as a leader. they like him more than they like hillary clinton. they phrased it as, i'd rather

have donald trump no matter what than hillary clinton. alienating his base? maybe. but his base is pretty strongly for hum. and they've been strongly for his personality, much more so than his policy positions. >> i was talking to some folks on this who are in the harder line groups when it comes to the immigration issue happy about what he's saying. they said the wall is everything. if he ever wavered on the wall, then he could then start seeing -- because that is the symbolic connection he made with this voter. with these voters. >> maybe, maybe. i've even talked to voters that say maybe he's not going to build a wall but at least go in there and try to do that. i know that there are conservative voices out there, people like rush him bah, mark levin, ann koulcoulter, laura ingraham who stand behind

trump's rhetoric and have supported him when it comes to that. when it comes to the rank and file voter that go to a donald trump rally, the overwhelming sense having been talking to them for 14 months is this isn't necessarily about policy. they like his shoot from the hip style. they like that he's different and not beholden to special interest and they really don't like hillary clinton. this is more about not liking her in a lot of ways than it is about liking him. i have not seen anything to indicate that if donald trump changed every position he has, even stopped with the wall, that he'd lose all of his support. >> katy tur, your position at trump tower. the plaque. i'm going to get it made. somehow to mark your -- >> a star. >> thank you. we bring in tonight's panel. kelly o'donnell. michael steel. he's very familiar with donald

trump's new immigration position. and jamal simmons, a democratic stat gist. >> that was not michael steel. that was me. >> kelly, if somebody asked you, what's is donald trump's position on immigration, do you know what it is? >> i think it is a leader watching his polls drop and he's looking for a way to add back. and so the easiest thing for him to do is start tinkering with the issue that's his signature issue that got him the nomination. n i think the wall has to be sacred for the next 74 days, but talking about the practical possibilities when it comes to legal status versus citizenship. there was a lot of rambling going on there. what i think is clear is he's looking for a way to build back support or to create some inroads where he's had no support. >> is there any way this becomes a positive for him, that voters that oare -- her lead is becaus

there are a chunk of republican voters not for him right now. will they come become because they think he's evolving? >> no. this is the position that was advocated by the republican national committee after the 2012 election. the position held by a number of republican senators. >> touchback was a bitars position in 2006 and 2007. >> this is what governor bush's position was. and donald trump shredded them for that. this makes him either a liar or a flip-flopper. i don't think either is terribly appealing. >> let me play this excerpt from a debate in february of trump doing what you said, eviscerating. >> they're not all rapists as you know who said. these are people coming to provide for their families. we should show a little more respect for the fact they're struggling. >> i don't often agree with marco, and i don't often agree with ted, but i can in this case. the weakest person on this stage

by far on illegal immigration is jeb bush. they come out of an act of love, whether you like it or not. he is so weak on illegal immigration, it's laughable. and everybody knows it. >> well, he eviscerated trump on that stage. >> i go back to the -- >> the one in november where donald trump did something very similar and governor bush's response was they're giving high-fives to each other at the clinton headquarters in brooklyn because you're dooming us in the general election. that's exactly what we're seeing. >> jamal, kelly, does this have you concerned at all that he's going to fix some of his problems with suburban white voters? >> it's very clear this is like reading from a focus group manual. first you apologize, sort of. you say regret. then start talking about outreach to african-american voters to prove you aren't a racist bigot and then start softening. he's torn his drawers on this.

>> he's torn his drawers on this. he's already gotten so bad on all of these. it's so hard. nobody is going to let him move too far away from it because we have tv now. people can use his own words in ads we're already seeing and that's going to hold some of these people away from donald trump. do they vote for hillary clinton? i thought for months the answer is no. they might flirt with hillary clinton but don't ultimately pull the trigger. >> if he stays consistent in rounding his edges, and that's why there's so much skepticism is he'll do it for a week and then something else comes up and it feels like, nope, those edges are hard again. in combination with hillary clinton floundering again on ethics and the foundation. does the combination of these two get voters back? >> not even the substance is all that critical here in the mind of donald trump. it's how do i win? how do i get back some polling advantage? how do i close the gap? if immigration is a way he can

make some adjustments, that's what he's going to do. he's going to have to commit to teleprompter and it will have to be some ideas there. much easier when you're appearing before one crowd, doing an audience callback for what do they like. he's all over the place. as we heard from katy, many of his supporters are not quite as judgmental about his flip-flopping. to me it looks like a flailing move to try to soften those edges. >> that's one of the problems with this stream of consciousness policy changes. no website to back it up. no actual plan. we're reduced to saying, well, it sounds like a touchback proposal. and that last week sounded like an infrastructure bank which are two specific policy proposals he's never said but which resemble his ramaling proannouncemepronounc pronouncemen pronouncements. >> we can go back and forth, republican and democrat and do donald trump versus donald trump every day and have reams and

reams of a show. >> let me go -- let's go 30,000 feet here. trump 3.0. there does seem to be a better dynamic between trump and this campaign manager, kellyanne conway. >> who is really more of a campaign spokesperson than traditional campaign manager. >> in some respects. but somebody is getting him to read a poll. >> from what i hear -- >> i think it's her. >> he likes her. she has a likable personality and she is bringing the goods. the one thing about politics he understands is polling. maybe one of the few things he really gets. >> numbers. he's a number guy and a gut player. she's been able to speak to him in a way where he'll take the information, not as i'm telling you what to do because -- >> daughter of a blueberry farmer. >> and then it becomes his idea. we see the steve bannon playbook where it's much harder attacks at hillary clinton on the foundation, on money ties, all those sorts of things.

>> is this a campaign that has you feeling any better about its impact -- >> sure. >> that it could have on the republican party? >> if there's one thing that unifies republican parties, it's the belief that hillary clinton's ideology, experience and truthfulness are a huge problem and something that you can't -- and if he runs closer if he alienates fewer voters, that has a huge, positive impact for down ballot races. >> can i have one more point. kellyanne conway is traveling with donald trump. that's normally a back of the headquarters job. so she has direct access to him. and can perhaps, you know, feed some information, give some reaction and this good relationship that's forms. she's got the front row seat to try to adjust how -- >> i've put on a lot of campaigns. you have a tough candidate. you want to put an adult on that plane. >> can always treat people around him like peers.

he is treating her like a peer. that seems to matter. bannon, what do we think of his impact. he's finding out what it's like to have opposition research dumped on you. everything in his personal life has -- >> that's one person who should have known it's coming. >> i was going to say. given somebody who himself lik to -- how is he hand ling it? >> so far we've seen a sharper focus on attacking secretary clinton's record and the scandal surrounding her record. whether that's due to kellyanne or mr. bannon, i don't know, but it's betters. >> ultimately, we know the negatives on hillary. it's going to keep people from moving to her and be a turnout election for everybody's core base. >> the question is, i have a feeling we're on our way to a plummeting turnout situation. >> i'm hearing that day after day. the problem is, which side is going to get impacted more. this sunday, on "meet the

press," we're talking trump 3.0. reince priebus will be joining us. the decline in decorum is not just at candidates at the top of the ticket. stay tuned.

governor paul lepage of maine once said he was donald trump before donald trump became popular. well, take a listen to the voice mail message governor lepage left a state lawmaker in maine yesterday. >> i would like to talk to you about your comments about my being a racist, you [ bleep ]. and i want to talk to you. you want -- i want you to prove that i'm a racist. i've spent my life helping black people, and you little son of a bitch, socialist [ bleep ], i need you to just friggin' -- i want you to record this and make it public because i'm after you. thank you.

>> the state lawmaker in question denies he ever called lepage a raftist. lepage claimed 90% of the drug traffickers arrested in maine are black and hispanic. governor lepage followed up in an interview saying in part, quote, i wish it were 1825 and we would have a duel. i would not put my gun in the air. i would point it right between his eyes because he is a not-nosed little runt. earlier today, lepage issue an apology of sorts saying in a statement, i apologize for that to the people of maine, but i make no apology for trying to end the drug epidemic that is ravaging our state. i referenced how political opponents used to call each f h other out in the 1820s. obviously it is illegal today. it is simply a metaphor and i meant no harm to gattine, the lawmaker. more on this overall trend up and down the ballot. it's a race to the bottom in

political rhetoric. stay tuned. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there's only one place where real and amazing live. book a seaworld vacation package and eat free. americans are buying more and more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the united states postal service to get it there. that's why we ma more ecommerce deliveri to hos than anyone else in the country. the united states postal service. priority: you

we've seen one of the nastiest weeks in political rhetoric yet. i'm sure many of you are going, yeah, so what else is new? the presidential nominees from both major parties hurled the worlds racist and bigot back and forth. this should be jaw-dropping behavior, but it's not. and it isn't isolated anymore. republican primary race was marked by colorful language and despite calls to pull the plug on insults, it hasn't happened. it's not just the race for the white house. illinois senator mark kirk said we can't have the president of the united states acting like the drug dealer in chief giving clean packs of money to a state sponsor of terror. he was talking about the government's $400 million payment of money that was owed to iran during that whole back and forth where the hostages came home and it was used as some form of leverage. right here yesterday, john mccain's primary challenger

pretty much said he's too old to be a senator. and we told you about the expletive-laden voice mail the senator of maine left for a lawmaker. the line of what's appropriate has been blurred so much it's impossible to know where the line is. here are a few things said about clinton and trump in recent days. >> you shouldn't play around on this stuff. so, you know, donald trump's ties to white supremacist groups, david duke, other people like that are weighing in and saying positive things about his candida candidacy. >> go online and put in hillary clinton illness. take a look at the videos for yourself. >> a small, insecure money grubber who doesn't care who gets hurt. >> who is going to step up and say enough is enough? it seems like it will have to be the voters. will they be too disgusted to show up to the polls? i want to bring in pollster party hart who conducted a poll of wisconsin voters who had strong responses to this poll.

obviously the democratic half of our nbc/"wall street journal" team. in wisconsin you asked, and this is what jumped out at me. you asked them, i guess to describe the smell of this campaign? here are their responses. >> chemistry class, sulphur, rotten eggs. >> garbage. >> dead fish. >> stinks. >> garbage. >> rotten eggs. >> skunk. >> skunk. >> skunk. >> garbage. >> garbage. >> manure. >> okay. it's my understanding four trump supporters, four clinton and four decideds but they were united on the rotten, disguftsing odor emanating from this campaign. >> totally so. this was done for the anenburg center. and very important that essentially we look and we say, this is how the candidates are

behaving. at the same time we have to look at the pollsters and the media. we've all been part of this. what we've given these people is the sense it's a race to the bottom, and it stinks. >> we were talking about this this morning in our morning meeting. i was bringing this up. this issue. how much are we a part of it. do the candidates think they have to say more outlandish things to get attention anymore? that we were talking just on a -- kelly ward on age. she just went there with john mccain. there used to be a subtleness if you were running against an old are candidate, oh, he's been around a while or the guy running against neil smith in iowa decided to have a 1957 chevy to drive around with. it was subtle without being insulting. >> and what's happened, there are no lines at this stage of the game. you race as far down in order to get the coverage that you can get and essentially what the

voters are saying is i can't stand it. would you tell me what you're going to do? don't tell me just what's wrong with -- >> let me play another clip on this issue of ending the mud slinging. here it is. >> i'm just hoping for actual discussions about political topics and not so much of the mud slinger dirty politics that's been going on between these two over the past couple of months. >> and how are you going to decide? what's going to -- what's going to help you? >> honestly, it's probably going to come down to crunch time and do as much research as i can to figure it out. >> all these voters do say that. as you know, that stuff never gets responded to. they don't like negative ads but it's negative ads that's work. they wish all things weren't horse race coverage but it gets more clicks on facebook than policy discussions. >> all of it is very true. and the difficulty is for the voters. and i went through it last

night. and this is what's so important. essentially they don't trust hillary clinton to give them an honest answer, and they don't trust donald trump to be a safe leader. so there's a lack of trust in either of these candidates, and there's a sense that essentially, who is going to lead this country, who is going to give us a direction. >> if you didn't know the polling numbers that you've seen over the last months and we know there does seem to have been a shift in clinton support. if you didn't know it, who would you say of the two candidates had the best shot at winning that group of voters? >> who has the betters hand? >> donald trump. and i say that as a democratic pollster. and what i'm saying is essentially they look at him and they think that he is crazy. he's off the board, et cetera. but if he had a sane month, which is probably impossible, he would get a full listen from these voters.

they still want change and they're unhappy with what's going on. the problem with hillary clinton is there is a sense that there's a glass curtain. they can't reach her. they feel there's a mask. they want to be able to feel that they know her and they don't. >> they're not going to listen? somehow they'll give trump more chances than clinton? >> they've certainly given him many more chances than he should have. if you said 50 republican national leaders on security have said don't do this and you have senator after senator, you would think that would be over. >> should be game over. >> but it's not game over yet. and in part because they want change and in part because they just don't feel they know hillary clinton or feel that there's that trust of that they need. i'm sorry to say it. >> david plouffe who managed the '08 and '12 campaigns tweeted earlier. oh, everybody just needs to

realize this is just 1984. it's going to be a blow out. all of this is meaningless at the end of the day. he has a confidence willful that maybe some of it is bluster. some of it is not. do you think it's bluster? do you think he's overconfident? >> i'd put up money. it's not going to be a blowout. when i say not going to be a blowout. i think in terms of the percentage difference. it may be an electoral strong stance but it's not like 1964. it's not like 1984 or 1972. those were elections that just kept going in one direction. this has been much more seesaw. >> let me ask you the final question which is this negative feeling, this spiraling down. that does have an impact on turnout. it likely -- i thought it would be a high turnout six months ago. thought one-sided high democratic, low republican turnout. i don't have a good sense for it

this year. the numbers don't give us a good sense. >> 4 of the 12 people said to me, i would consider voting for a third party candidate. those people are either going to look outside the system or get happy with what's there. or not vote. and that's what i worry about. a lot of people not voting because -- >> it's likely we could see a '90ss era turnout? >> i think it's much greater that way. still ahead, mitch mcconnell isn't confident he'll keep his majority leader title much longer.

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much more ahead on this friday edition of "mtp daily." firsticate rogers with the cnbc market wrap. >> a mixed closing. the dow falling 53 and the s&p down 3 points while the nas dk up almost 7 points. janet yellen says outs look for the economy has improved and signaled an interest rate hike may be coming in the next few months. the u.s. auto market may be overheating as subprime auto loans continue to rise. the fda wants all blood banks to start testing for the zika virus. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide.

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on fridays, i want to check in on some of the down ballot

races. we're going to check in on the senate ballot. republicans are in danger of losing control of the chamber they captured just two years ago. senator mcconnell called the gop's chances of keeping the senate very dicey. republicans have 54 seats. democrats hold 44. plus two independent senators who caucus with them. dems need four seats and the white house. the vice president gets the tiebreaker. they have a good shot at flipping seats in wisconsin, illinois and indiana. all three seem to be leaning in the democrats favor. dems can also pick up ground in states where the final tally is likely to be swayed by the presidential race. pennsylvania, new hampshire, north carolina and nevada. the only close race for a democratic-held seat right now.

n we'll call these the landslide states. if democrats have a strong year across the board and democratic turnout is down they could flip one or more of these. ohio, arizona, florida, missouri. all of these races feature a well-known republican incumbent against second or third tier candidates. joining me now is the man who knows more about this than anybody. charlie cook, editor and publisher and namesake of the cook political report. how are you, sir? >> how are you, chuck? >> let's start with the basic. where are you now? we saw "the new york times" model. everybody wants to put percentages. i think 60% chance that democrats do gain control of the senate. where are you? >> i'm closer to 50/50. i think the senate will end up 50/50 give or take a seat or two. i'm being more cautious than other people. i think assuming hillary clinton stays ahead, even though may not by a wide margin, i think the

republican argument, don't give hillary clinton a blank check could make a real difference in some of these really, really close ones. the ones that are going to make a difference. nevada, new hampshire, north carolina, pennsylvania. i think, you know, you have a lot of voters that are going to be voting for hillary clinton but they don't particularly like her. they don't trust her and may be looking for a hedge, an insurance policy. >> there's some history on your side on that. i think we'll call them invisible coat tails. 64, 72, 84. three of the biggest landslides in the last 50 years. look at the net senate seat changes. '72, landslide for the republicans. they lost two senate seats. '84, republican landslide and lost two senate seats. i'm going to add clinton '96. republicans netted two senate

seats that cycle. there is a history of this. >> i'm not sure i would call it strategic voting, but there does seem to be some subconscious, if we're going -- people don't fundamentally trust either party. a lot of times they are subconsciously looking for an edge. >> i grew up with both parents who used to talk about that. i'm going to vote for so and so but i'm going to check. they did think that way. i'm not saying my parents were like all voters. let's go into some specific races. do you believe illinois and wisconsin are almost off the board for the democrats, that's they've put them away? >> i think those are pretty -- the thing is that a republican can win in a midterm election and one where president obama's numbers were in the toilet as they were back in 2010. but the under tow is awfully high for ron johnson in wisconsin and mark kirk in illinois.

>> let's talk evan bayh. he starts off as a big front-runner but had a bit of a run-in. i want to play a sound bite with how much of an indiana resident is he really? here he is uttering his address in indiana earlier this week. >> 42c, canterbury court. it's on my driver's license. it was a court. he didn't get his address wrong. dick lugar ran into this problem in indiana four years ago, and it was -- it turned out to be problematic. residency issues can become problems. do you foresee this being a problem for evan bayh? >> i think that these questions have gone out of state too long. it can turn eight or nine or ten-point race into two or three. i think it will make it a lot closer than it otherwise would. but i still wouldn't bet against

bayh on this. i think it's going to be more of a race than it ought to be. >> two more races because they're both very similar. pennsylvania and new hampshire. two republican incumbents who won in 2010. two republican incumbents who seem to be mindful of college educated white voters who they need to win, don't like donald trump but live in a lot of states with donald trump supporters in the t of pennsylvania. how would you assess how pat toomey and kelly ayotte are handling this? >> kelly ayotte in new hampshire, i think that race is dead even. i just think it's absolutely even steven. and i think whichever side wins the presidential would probably have the leg up there. in pennsylvania, it's interesting because i think the democratic candidate mcginty is weak but she's running slightly ahead of toomey. he's running a good campaign, doing everything right. the philadelphia suburbs are really outweighing the t in the

middle. the philadelphia suburbs are really outweighing the t. the alabama part in the middle. so this is a real struggle for toomey. i think, frankly, if mcginty were a better candidate, she'd be ahead by five or six points. >> you'd put that race in illinois and wisconsin trrts. >> "the new york times" piece this morning is the democrats have numbers on their side but not necessarily candidate quality there. >> i'm sure you have been getting this is, what the heck has happened to richard burr. how did that become a race, and what would be your explanation? >> i think this is bigger than richard burr. something is going on in north carolina. i think it's a state that thought of itself as more of

a -- not a southern state anymore, and i think this hb1 gender bathroom issue has caused a lot of embarrassment. i think having the nba all-star game taken away from them, the ncaa threatening to cancel tournament gaums there -- >> you think burr got caught in this under tow? >> you look at the governor's race. the incumbent governor is well behind. and the thing is, and clinton is overperforming or trump is underperforming. i think it's bigger than any of those three races. something is going on in that state this year. >> there's one democratic defense, one target that republicans, i thk, are doing much better than they ever imagined. and that is nevada. what's your take on why that? >> i think joe hack is a stronger candidate. and i think that's part of it. but also trump is -- if you were going to say what state is trump, or two states is trump really overperforming?

and i would say nevada and iowa. i'm not sure why because you would have thought the rising latino population. and mormons. and mormons don't like donald trump. that's a state where republicans are beating the point spread is nevada. >> there's a chart bill mcintyre circled around. if you look at the states and number of college educated and noncollege educated whites you'll see where nevada and ohio are as compared to where north carolina, virginia and colorado have become. charlie, i could do this all day. we didn't get to iowa. we didn't get to some of these, missouri, arizona. but, hey, we got 73 more days. we'll get to it. >> they are the longer shots. see you soon. have a great weekend. panel will be back here. we'll talk memorable moments of the week.ra that's up next in "the lid." stay tuned. reduce my risk of progression. and everywhere i look... i'm reminded to stick to my plan. incling preservision areds 2.

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time to check in on today's new polls. let's give them to you. the presidential race out of florida. mason dixon, they have hillary clinton with a slight lead over donald trump. 44%, 42%. the two-point margin is a little smaller than our nbc/"wall street journal"/marist poll. clinton has a slight advantage in both categories. up next, we'll wrap up the week in politics with "the lid."

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moments of the week. the panel is back. you guys get to tell me your most memorable moment of the week. kelly? >> we've already lot of the big moments. i will say bill clinton coming out while traveling in georgia making himself available and lo and behold, he was willing to take a question about the clinton foundation. >> let's hear the answer. >> i made it clear that if she becomes president, we'll have to do more than we did when she was secretary of state because if you make a mistake, [ inaudible ]. if you are anticipatpresident, . >> he's trying to answer the question why are you making changes for the presidency you didn't make for secretary of state. >> i think when there was some judgment call to be made about the foundation it strikes me as odd. he talked about how they would unwind it, the employees, the

good work they do. there seems to be a reluctance to want to let it go although he has said he won't raise money but i think it is part of the family, it's like an heirloom. they don't want to let it go. >> it feels like you wonder, it's almost like we're in denial for too long and it looks like they're slapping together a plan. >> usually he cleans things up and he raised more questions. >> michael? your moment of the week? >> my favorite was a tweet from former house majority leader eric cantor. a strong supporter of governor bush in the primaries, who thanked donald trump for embracing jeb bush's immigration plan. >> what was interesting about jeb bush, though, is he went on rita cosby, trust me, some of us trying to book governor bush every now and then, he keeps saying i'm not going to get involved. he couldn't help himself. he really did want to comment on that. he wasn't praising trump at all. he didn't believe him. >> i think he comes from the same deep place of skepticism

that i do. that whatever is the operative position that donald trump has at ten til 6:00 on friday afternoon will not necessarily be operative by this time tomorrow morning. >> or tonight. >> all right. give me yours. >> governor mike pence sitting in an african-american barbershop in pennsylvania, he gets a great haircut, turns around and says watch the clip. >> your name? >> mike pence. >> mike pence? >> yes, sir. i'm the governor of the state of indiana, i'm running for vice president of the united states. >> look, the barber, i watched the whole thing, he was great, how about that. he was very excited. he was genuinely excited. >> he said how about that. >> by the way -- >> he didn't blink. >> both tim kaine and mike pence have probably need to go -- >> the tv camera being there might have been a tip-off.

>> we think people are paying attention to this. it goes to show you everybody else in the country is having summertime. >> what was interesting in our nbc/"wall street journal" polling, it is the lowest sort of opinion ability rating we have ever seen for either vice presidential candidate. number of people who felt they could rate them. they don't know them. >> the candidates may have chosen them for that very reason. >> so that debate is going to be, we'll be watching but i will be curious to see how much of america will be watching. >> i don't know. that's tough. i have this feeling -- >> i have been counting down the days but i know not everyone feels thatway. >> i have a feeling that debate will be the one people say how come the ticket is -- >> they are both the great defenders. they will try to fix the problems for the top of the ticket. >> the first debate for presidential candidates has to be one of the biggest political events in years. >> let me stick with vp a

second. have they been effective? you know, they haven't hurt, neither one has hurt the ticket. both have been do no harm. has pence helped? >> yeah, i think so. but he's not been able to do -- i helped out when paul ryan was running for vice president in 2012 and we were by kind of this point in the process doing two public events plus a fund-raiser, plus a lot of local media every single day all day, every day. i don't get the sense there's anything like that kind of tempo either in terms of public events or fund-raising or that it's in the right place to the extent that it is. >> no offense to michael, you have covered more of these presidential and vice presidential, especially vice presidentials. there is that moment, are both pence and kaine, do you feel they are both running at full speed the way we saw ryan? >> i think that ryan, who we know is an athlete, was running at a really hard pace to begin with. i think pence and kaine each have a day job that there's a factor to that, but i do think they have done a couple things well.

i think tim kaine has been able to speak about hillary clinton in ways that it's not easy for her to talk about herself. that's been useful. and pence has been able to bring his sunny disposition to respond to some of trump's more difficult rhetoric and to do it in a way where he is not really distancing himself but he sort of turns the volume down. that's been helpful. >> in tim kaine's defense, he also probably just shut the door, put away virginia. >> oh, yes. >> tim kaine put away virginia for hillary. >> i think kelly's right, mike pence is able to talk to republicans, especially republican leaders who are more comfortable with him than the top of the ticket. >> pence's schedule seems to be strategic. they are taking him to conservative parts in north carolina. it reminds me of how the mccain campaign used palin to basically -- >> voter turnout. >> send him to more conservative areas. >> that's a sign of weakness, not strength. if you are going to win, you want them in -- >> fair enough.

>> they are both enjoying it, though. >> if you are looking for race to the bottom, that's the race to the top. guys, thank you very much. hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move.

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fmale teacher: and then name thelargest planet?t? male teacher: someone we haven't heard from. female teacher:anyone else? through internet essentials, comcast is on track to connect 3 million people in need to low cost, high speed internet at home, helping to make sure that every hand in the classroom goes up. male teacher: okay, veronica. amphibian. male teacher: excellent. welcome to a brighter future. welcome to it all. comcast. and finally, for our in case you missed it segment, in case you missed "meet the press" the last two weeks because of the olympics, the marathons, we know you were watching the men's and women's marathons, as we were, the good news is we are now ready to train for the marathon. we have been training all two

weeks and are back this sunday and yes, every single sunday for the rest of the year. we'll have a lot to talk about. trump 3.0, to rnc chairman reince priebus on the broadcast, talk about the clinton foundation, can she figure out, hillary clinton, how to deal with that and not have it cost her votes. remember once again if it's sunday, it really is this sunday "meet the press." we'll be back monday with "mtp daily." "with all due respect" starts ten seconds late. i'm kasie hunt. >> i'm john heilemann. "with all due respect" to hillary clinton offering chocolate to the press -- >> we really prefer gin. and bourbon. if you want to know the truth. all right. as we wrap up another wild week in american presidential