that is all for tonight. "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm mike barnicle. >> i'm john heilemann. "with all due respect" to george stephanopoulos, wtf. >> you only live once. that's a nice day when i want to buy something. >> good to know.

mike knows what that means. he's an old man. >> yeah. >> i don't know what that means. dwindling twilight, the fading heat waves, the finale of the night of. the summer is almost over, sports fans. after more than a week of outreach to black voters after mostly white audiences, the team announced he will give a speech to the christian tv channel impact network and will also speak that day at an african-american church in detroit, his first appearance before a miniainly black audien. but this comes against a bunch of other contrasting pieces of evidence and some problems for donald trump when it comes to race relations. on saturday, the "new york times" published a piece on a 1973 case against trump and his father fred in which the justice department investigated and ultimately sued trump management for discriminating against black applicants for housing. exhibit b, the second piece of evidence, comes from trump himself on saturday. this very trumpian tweet after

dwyane wade's cousin was shot. quote, dwyane wade's cousin was just shot and killed walking her baby in chicago. just what i have been saying. african-americans will vote trump, exclamation points and all caps, of course. today i'm joined by the legendary, nobody says legendary here, mike barnicle. mike, given donald trump's history, given everything that's happened in the course of this campaign, given that tweet, given all the rest of it, trump is now going to talk to african-american voters. does he have any chance in your view of doing respectably well for a republican in 2016 among african-american voters? could he possibly get to mitt romney levels of black vote support? >> no, he can't get there, because of his lack of familiarity among african-american voters in this country. the things they are familiar with donald trump over, his appearances on tv, "celebrity

apprentice," stuff like that. that's one thing. the things they are also familiar with donald trump if they do take the time to become familiar with him do not work to his favor. the fact that he's been talking about getting the black vote and appealing to african-americans in this country while standing before groups that look like the admissions committee for augusta national, that is one thing. the other thing is his tweets can be misread by people. >> we, when trump went out before largely white audiences and talked about black voters, sometimes in condescending ways, people in our business said you got, first thing you got to do is go talk to actual black audiences. let's give him credit. he is actually going to talk to african-americans. good for him. the bigger problem it seems to me, the main thing most african-americans know about donald trump is that he spent the early part of the obama administration attacking barack obama as not an american, as an illegitimate president, which i

think for most, certainly of the african-americans i know and i bet for many many many of them across the country, has put donald trump out of reach, put them out of reach as votes for donald trump forever because they regard that as a racist attack and rightly so. >> let's single out that donald trump originated, he wasn't the only one, but he pursued it with a vehemence that was cruel and stupid. >> he was the poster boy for birtherism. >> the trump campaign has a new nickname for hillary clinton. hidin' hillary. for nine days, trump's team has been sending daily e-mails to the press highlighting the running count of days since clinton's last press conference while posing new questions to clinton's team. today, the 268th day the trump e-mail included a question from lieutenant general michael flynn about the clinton foundation. clinton's team in brooklyn has responded to calls for more press access by saying she's given more than 300 interviews resulting in about 2600 questions from the press in

2016. while we're on the topic of the clintons and the press, yesterday, jim rutenburg of the "new york times" wrote about her tendency to travel on a many separate from the jet that carries her press corps. notably since the '60s, the press has traveled on the candidates' planes. before we get to that, there has been some disagreement on whether press conferences are a thing of the past in this digital age. do you think they still matter? >> i do. look -- >> i agree. >> there's a ton of people who say, look, the only reason you care about this is because you are in the press. the press will preen in front of the camera, et cetera. some of those things are true. there is some element of that. we have grandstanding reporters in our midst all the time. one of them sitting here right now. >> where? >> i'm sorry, right behind you, there. the reality is, the people who know her campaign best are the people who cover it on a difficult-t

day-to-day basis. to put her in a situation where she has to address those people with some regularity and where she don't have controls or constraints over the interview is different than doing a one-on-one interview where time is constrained and other constraints are placed on interviews. it's a free-flowing thing where she's questioned by people who know her best. she should do them. both candidates should do them regularly always as presidents should. >> oddly enough, i agree with you. almost completely. i think the principle reason is this. that if you are sitting at home tonight watching this program and you have a son or daughter 15, 16, 17 years of age, you want to know from the potential president of the united states, odds on hillary clinton, what are you going to do about syria, about aleppo, about the introduction of the united states military forces in and around the globe, about these hot button situations. you want to know that because you want to know what's going to happen. >> it's the case, the logical extension of that is even though she's done all these interviews she hasn't been asked those

questions very often. there's a better chance she will get those questions if in fact she meets the press. all right. sunday night, donald trump called on clinton to release her health records tweeting quote, i think both candidates, crooked hillary and myself, should release detailed medical records. i have no problem doing so, exclamation point. hillary, question mark. the clinton campaign responded by saying clinton has already released more medical information than donald trump's campaign and that his only documentation of health has been an adjective-addled letter from his personal physician. the clinton campaign questioned the credibility of the doctor who wrote his famous clean bill of health. take a listen to how that doctor described to nbc on friday how he wrote that letter, a process that took him all of five minutes. >> i thought about it all day and at the end, i get rushed and i get anxious when i get rushed so i tried to get four or five lines down as fast as possible.

in the rush i think some of those words didn't come out exactly the way they were meant. his health is excellent. he thinks he's the best which works out just fine. >> there's a lot of arguments about transparency going on here in the campaign. on this question of health, trump's apparently trying to go on offense against clinton. clinton's fighting back. who's got the upper hand in that argument? >> are you kidding me? we just saw willie nelson posing as a doctor. >> that's like willie nelson plus the dude. >> i have to tell you, i do my own grocery shopping. i meet a lot of ordinary people during the course of it. this campaign is scary enough without pondering about further health statements. we ought to have health statements from both candidates. we ought to know their physical health. their mental health, that's another thing that's on exhibit every single day. so far, boy, i don't know. donald's losing. >> i really find it baffling that trump has decided to try to make this issue for a couple reasons. one is that hillary clinton could turn around and basically

say you know, i'mappy to release my health records if you are willing to release your taxes which is another issue we agree on. it's rridiculous, insane and totally outrageous trump hasn't yet released his tax returns as every other major candidate has for years going back. it's true what dlithe clinton campaign says. she has released more health information than he has. this is ridiculous, this gastroenterologist who is standing as trump'sprete pretending to be his internist. he will be, apparently, the healthiest man to enter office ever, including men 30 years younger. >> i also agree with your instinct that turnout is odds-on to be low. >> it has become kind of this back and forth has become ludicrous even for late summer. even for this period. the idea we are having this discussion is kind of crazy. what do you think of that

doctor? would you let that guy treat you? >> he's been my personal physician for many many years now. look at me. i'm the picture of health. the greatest health ever. today, hillary clinton's long-time aide huma abedin announced she's separating from anthony weiner after the "new york post" published another one of weiner's graphic exchanges on twitter. they have been married for six years. normally the disillusion of a marriage wouldn't warrant our attention on this show but today, donald trump made it political by applauding abedin in a statement, then calling into question clinton's judgment for ever allowing weiner quote, such close proximity to highly classified information, unquote. john, trump is trying to work this into the news and into his favor. does this have any political significance whatsoever? >> no. >> i agree. >> it has no political significance whatsoever. the disillusion of a marriage is a sad thing.

in terms of whether this is going to matter to anybody out there in america who is deciding who the next president should be, it doesn't matter, it shouldn't matter and this is really all we probably should say about that on the show right now. >> i agree. move on. coming up, everything colin kaepernick related. stay tuned. this network of portals will shorten the distance packages have to travel, and save jet shoppers money. unbelievable work! where does that one go? ...happy birthday... whoa, slow down bill. save some for us. (everyone laughs) ...hahahahahahahah. at jet.com, we're always looking for unbelievable money saving innovations. hi mi'm raph. tom. my name is anne. i'm one of the real live attorneys you can talk to through legalzoom. don't let unanswered legal questions hold you up, because we're here, we're here, and we've got your back. legalzoom. legal help is here.

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there are a few events in the annals of american politics no one will ever forget where they were when man landed on the moon, when barack obama was inaugurated and when 49ers quarterback colin kaepernick refused to stand during the national anthem. it's our sports and politics intersection segment. here's what kaepernick said on sunday about his sitting protest on the treatment of african-americans when the press asked if this election season had played any part in the timing. >> it wasn't a timing thing. it wasn't something that was planned. but i think the two presidential candidates that we currently have also represent the issue that we have in this country

right now. >> want to expound on that? >> i mean, you have hillary, who has called black teens or black kids super predators. you have donald trump who is openly racist. i mean, we have a presidential candidate who has deleted e-mails and done things illegally and is a presidential candidate. that doesn't make sense to me. because if that was any other person, you would be in prison. so what is this country really standing for? >> it is a country that's elected a black man president twice, colin. can you see people saying why the outrage when a country has elected a black president? >> it has elected a black president but there are also things, a lot of things that haven't changed. >> our friend and bloomberg politics contributor will leach

has a column calling kaepernick's protest a quote, pivotal moment for the nfl and writes quote, there will be many players who will not appreciate the position kaepernick put them in even if they agree with him because they forced him off the sidelines. you can't dance between the raindrops forever. will is here with us now from atlanta. the great wi leach. will, pivotal moment, just go into more detail about your argument here. >> well, we have had moments in recent history where you have seen lebron james and dwyane wade talk about, they wore hoodies to support the family of trayvon martin but it's always been, i say in the piece it's always been with an approving nike swish, never anything too controversial. it's not something the people that pay them would be so upset about to do. this is different. it is one thing to wear a hoodie in support of trayvon martin, another thing not to stand up for the flag, particularly in the nfl when the military actually gives money to nfl teams to promote them on the

field. so what this did was, you know, you didn't have to go to every major black athlete after lebron james wears an "i can't breathe" teeshirt during practice and say hey, what is your stance on that. this is a story that seems like it's crossed over a little bit. it's one thing, lot of people might not know all the details of the "i can't breathe" shirt. they know what it means not to stand for the flag. i think you are going to start seeing major black athletes all asked about this. you will see cam newton asked about this. you are really going to see russell wilson asked about this. you are going to see a ton of these guys asked the questions that they have been able to kind of avoid in the past. >> well, will, you are absolutely right in one respect. i think largely it's going to be a pivotal moment because the nfl is our religion on sundays in this country and the nfl has just an enormous hold on an american public that does nothing else on sunday other

than watch pro football games that are filled with flyovers and the flag. kaepernick has a perfect right and that's what the flag is all about, for him to make that statement. but listening to him, listening to that sound bite, i just wish he had come to a full stop after he said timing had nothing to do with it rather than get into the country at large. i'm just wondering, he has taken an enormous risk with his career, with what's left of his career, in saying this, don't you think? >> well, certainly he's struggling. he was in the super bowl, three or four years ago. he was really considered one of the next hot prospects in the game. he really struggled the last few years. i think it's led some people to make these weird discussions like oh, well he's just trying to keep relevant as if yeah, the best way to remain relevant in the nfl is to have strong political beliefs. that's a great way to be employed forever. i think yeah, i think it's put him in a difficult situation. remember, he actually had not stood for the anthem during any of the preseason games this

year. it wasn't until he was asked about it and said oh, this is why, but if you had been following him on twitter, this was not a surprise that he would do something like this. he very clearly had very strong political statements and strong beliefs about this. i think he may have backed into this a little bit and i agree with you, kind of watching the interview, there's some messaging he probably needs to work on a little bit. i don't think there's any question this is something he is willing to take head-on. yeah, there is certainly pressure but again, this is different than the kind of sports speech we usually hear. i think that actually speaks to more whether you agree with him or not, the courage of him to even do it. >> you think there's a split between how other players are going to feel about this and do feel about it and how the front offices feel about it and how the coaching staffs feel about it? >> yeah. mike freeman, an excellent football reporter for bleacher report, he immediately started calling sources afterwards, said across the board, the vast, vast majority of players were like good for kap, we're very happy

for him, good job. and zilcho on the executives and the coaches. they wanted nothing to do with it. i think there's part of the nfl culture that's inherently conservative but i think it's actually more that players are just not supposed to call trouble, distraction is the big word everyone loves to toss around when it comes to the nfl. the idea that now not only are all of these high profile black athletes going to be asked about this, other 49ers players will be asked about this, the coach will be asked about this. all of these kind of executives. this is the last thing they want to deal with because they just want to be total focused on football. that's why they don't want to hear about this. this causes a headache for their team. but players, a lot of them, whether or not they agree with kaepernick, a lot of them probably don't but i think they like the idea an athlete is standing for something and saying something in a league where that's often very discouraged. >> all right. thanks for coming on, will. always a pleasure to have you. coming up, donald trump's

campaign manager kellyanne conway right here in the studio, live and in person. stay tuned. uous improvement. uous improvement. come triumph, or trial, tennis legend serena williams moves forward, and with the chase mobile® app we're on the same path, offering innovative, and convenient ways to bank. easy-to- use chase technology, for whater you are trying to mast. hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on stead leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move. donald trump audio only: "i would bomb the sh_t out of them." vo: just one.

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earlier today, mr. trump issued a statement about the anthony weiner/huma abedin relationship, calling in to question hillary clinton's judgment for not doing something about it earlier because of national security risks. did you see the statement before it was released? >> i did. >> did you -- you approved of it? >> well, mr. trump approves of his statements. actually, what he said there is that he thinks huma abedin will be much better off and that he knows anthony weiner well. then he talked about the close proximity that he may have had to national security information that could be highly classified and that it may have compromised our national security. >> let me ask you this question. stuart stevens, fellow republican consultant, obviously someone who has not been very much in favor of donald trump's candidacy tweeted on the basis of this that trump had given over $100,000 to dlithe clinton foundation and gave the maximum amount to weiner's congressional

campaigns and questions the judgment. he seemed to have like the clinton foundation plenty and seemed to have liked anthony weiner. whose judgment are more flawed? >> are you really going to question donald trump's judgment today as opposed to anthony weiner -- >> not anthony weiner. >> no, no, since you want to go there. >> he's questioning hillary clinton's judgment. i'm questioning his judgment. not anthony weiner's judgment. >> he gave $100,000 to the clinton foundation which does do some good work for many people around the globe, a. b, he's a new york businessman who has stated very many times that he's contributed to members of congress and other members of the delegation. that doesn't mean he ever wanted anything from anthony weiner. that doesn't mean anthony weiner is any less of a scoundrel for taking a picture of himself in a compromising position with his child next to him on the same bed. in any event, i don't think there's a comparison about questioning the judgment. stuart stevens, all he does is attack us all day long. he met with the independent

candidate, it's reported, evan mcmullin. i don't know why stuart can't just support the republican nominee when so man of us supported mitt romney, gave money, volunteered our time, went on tv and supported his candidacy. that's fine. that's his right to not support us. please don't say he's a republican consultant who just doesn't like donald trump's campaign. he is constantly attacking us. i hear from democratic friends all the time who say i'm with her but i appreciate the fact you are there and your candidate is doing his best to make a difference on his terms. but you know, we are constantly spat at and shot at by a lot of people who are quote, unquote, republicans. >> at the risk of running this topic into the ground which i will proceed to take that risk now, the statement injected a truly sad, pathetic, sick aspect of a domestic relationship, a man and a wife and a child and the guy is really screwed up. didn't that give you pause for injecting that into presidential political campaign?

>> did you see the pictures? you know what anthony weiner has done that we are actually making donald trump the issue here? this man is a serial sexter who embarrasses his wife routinely. i don't get involved in other people's relationships but let me tell you something. i looked at the "new york post" today and i was nothing short of appalled. i have small children. who does this? the idea we are going to divert attention away from this issue -- >> because of the national security line. >> okay. well then, look, james comey said she was careless and negligent, used the same words about her handling of her e-mails. donald trump now is saying, you know, maybe -- he said it may have compromised our national security. look, hillary clinton had one of her worst weeks in the campaign last week. we are having our best two weeks, headed into our third best week, ten-state ad buy today with an economic buy that talks about our economic agenda. i understand why people who support hillary clinton want to talk about something else but we feel really good about taking our case to the voters. we feel really great about the new polls showing us tightening

in all the swing states, particularly michigan, pennsylvania, ohio, the emerson college poll today shows us within the margin of error in each. we are up by 17 points according to emerson college over hillary clinton among independents in ohio. if we are that awful, if we are going to lo, if everybody was quoting the polls three weeks ago, it's over, you can't recover, now we are tightening. let's have a conversation about the polls. everybody wanted to talk the polls three weeks ago when we were down. nobody wants to talk about the polls. i have to tell you the last thing i want to talk about is anthony weiner because i find his conduct to be disgusting. >> mike? >> we will be right back after this. that's why a cutting edge university counts on centurylink to keep their global campus connected. and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their dealer network streamlined and nimble. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.

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we are back with donald trump's campaign manager, kellyanne conway. i first want to play for you something you mentioned before, which was this new ad that you guys have just coming out that will air on broadcast and cable networks in nine states. let's take a look. >> in hillary clinton's america,

the middle class gets crushed. spending goes up. taxes go up. hundreds of thousands of jobs disappear. it's more of the same but worse. in donald trump's america, working families get tax relief. millions of new jobs created. wages go up. small businesses thrive. the american dream, achievable. change that makes america great again. donald trump for president. >> i'm donald trump and i approved this message. >> so that ad is up and running. you guys are finally on the air after a long time not being on the air. yet we were talking before about the weiner matter and some other things that seem to kind of, you guys kind of want to seem to get in your own way in some respects. want to ask about donald trump's questions about hillary clinton, why he's calling her to release more health records given the relative transparency on each side. why raise that issue when, a, he's been less transparent than her and b, this is the issue that you guys want to actually be talking about? >> we can walk, chew gum and

juggle all at the same time at the trump campaign. i don't think we get in our way. if people want to cover the ad fairly, they will cover the ad especially as you point out those so critical we had run no ads, hillary clinton and her super pac spent gazillions of dollars and look at the polls. what has it really gotten them? we are very happy that this ad will be actually we added a tenth state today, michigan, to the ad buy and we are happy it will be running so we can make our case to middle class voters, all voters about middle class tax relief package. actually, you can compare the two economic plans. i think that you will find very few issues where they are more at odds, hillary clinton and donald trump, with the way they would rebuild the american economy. we will talk about energy investments, infrastructure and things that affect every day people. in terms of health records he's saying great, more transparency, let's put them all out there. he's challenging her to do the same. why not. >> what are the records he would put out under the circumstances? >> i don't know. you would have to ask him. i'm not intimately familiar with his medical records, nor should i be.

but he's willing to do that. in other words, he's willing to, he has said he's willing to put out his medical records and she can do the same. if she doesn't want to, i know she's in hiding most of the time when she's not giving speeches about him and websites or raising money with her hollywood friends, so one of these times when she comes out of hiding or somebody could send it over to you in the media, if she would like, why not put it out there. i think america have a right to know. >> what are the odds he will also put out his tax returns along with his health records? just one day, here they are. here's everything. >> so he has said and his lawyers and accountants have said to me that he shouldn't do that right now while he's under audit. i defer to them as i defer to his doctor and mrs. clinton's doctor to put out her health records as they see fit. >> have you seen trump's doctor? we showed him -- >> i have seen pictures of him. i never met him. but in any event, i think mr. trump would probably say to you, mike, that i'll put out my taxes

after the audit, if we can see her 33,000 missing e-mails. >> he's going to detroit on wednesday. >> saturday. >> saturday. >> phoenix on wednesday. >> okay. immigration on wednesday. >> yes. >> correct? >> yes. >> how is he going to -- well, tell us how he intends to clear up the confusion over what exactly is his immigration plan and the 11 million or so people here in this country illegally? how is he going to do that? >> you have to watch the speech on wednesday. >> you can't tease us? >> it will be in there. i could tease you and say there are many tenets to his plan. i think they are incredibly important for everyone to remember. build the wall, which has been the signature of his campaign since day one. that's there. no amnesty, no legalization, no sanctuary cities. >> no amnesty. >> no amnesty. no sanctuary cities. sanctuary cities have become a very important inflection point in this campaign. in just this last week, he's stood on stages with agnes,

julie, laura, michelle, angel moms whose children were murdered by illegal immigrants. they are the faces of our campaign. he will also talk about those who have committed a crime leaving immediately, enforcing the law and then he will talk about the 11 million as he said on a different network last week, it could be 30 million, could be two million, we don't know. but look, we don't know what actually happens when you enforce the law because nobody does in washington. they just make new laws. >> why can't anybody in the campaign answer the question whether he's still in favor of a deportation force. >> i answered that many times. he hasn't talked about that in a very long time. >> is he in favor or against it? >> he has not talked about that in a very long time. you have to wait until wednesday. >> you understand you are not answering the question when you shapes n say he is not asked about it. >> the reason you don't have robby mook on this show is because they don't talk about issues. they talk about us. isn't it a disgrace the same campaign that refuses to give you the respect and due you

deserve as journalists won't hold a press conference, won't give speeches about issues? give us the credit we deserve that we actually go into the ring and do that, albeit by ourselves. by the way, her plan on immigration is incredibly coherent. it's scary as heck because she has total open borders, catch and release, sanctuary cities continue, amnesty. it's really a very radical plan. she's been critical of president obama. she thinks that he is actually not done enough. >> i know, i just want to ask you this question. you guys both talk about each other. you talk about them, they talk about you. it's not as though -- >> we talk about issues, too. they just don't bother. >> donald trump has recently called hillary clinton a bigot. what does the word mean? >> you know what the word means. >> i do know what it means. >> yesterday he was called a psycho path by david plouffe. this man is called more names before the sun comes up in the morning. >> he's the presidential candidate. he called her a bigot. what does he mean when he calls her that? >> he's very clear that the

effect of her policies have kept people down who deserve the same opportunities that the rest of us have. >> that's not what a bigot means. the dictionary definition. >> what does it mean for tim kaine, so beneath him, i know he wants to be the vice president to add to his government resume but what in the world does he mean by saying -- >> interesting question but not my question. my question is what does donald trump mean when he calls hillary clinton a bigot? >> he explains it. >> he does not in fact explain it at all. it's somebody who discriminates against a group of people. so he's claiming that hillary clinton is discriminatory human, right? that's what he's saying. he's saying he hates certain races, she discriminates against certain groups in america? >> what he said and he said days before that is the policies are bigoted, that they hurt people and that you can't argue with the facts. everybody wants this campaign to only be about tone and temperament. it's also about facts and figures. the facts do not help her at all on this question. but on every network where you

appear, he has called everything in the book before the sun rises every morning, then he says one thing one time, basically the day before she gives an entire speech on the topic, and everybody's hair is on fire. i think the voters can see through that. >> one last quick question about facts and figures. you raised it talking about angel mothers who you say are the face of your campaign. in the immigration speech, will donald trump put facts and figures to the number of americans who have actually been killed by people in this country here are here illegally? >> he may. he certainly will have the facts and figures that attend to this very complex issue. look, this is what presidents and leaders do. they talk about issues, they put out plans long before they are elected so people can at least go ahead and look at them and say i either like your plan or i don't. and it would be nice to have a two-way coersation with hillary clinton before we get to the presidential debates.

don't you think voters deserve to have a full and fair discussion on important issues that they tell pollsters including the bloomberg poll and msnbc poll and nbc polls that matter most to them before we get to three 90-minute debates? are we really waiting for the debates to find out what secretary clinton thinks on some of these issues? we are doing it now. wednesday. >> you mentioned the debates. there was a story in "the washington post" about the way the two candidates are going about their debate preparations. who is going to play hillary clinton in your debate prep? >> no one, probably. >> no one? >> no one's been decided right now. >> will you do mock debates like the traditional debate prep sty style? >> perhaps. you are talking about, everybody for 15 months now has wanted the most unconventional candidate to work conventionally. >> i'm just asking the question. how are you going to do debate prep and who will play hillary clinton? >> no one has been chosen to

play hillary clinton. >> the laura ingraham report was wrong? >> i'm very happy she will give us any type of advice and counsel based on her very busy life. >> is roger ailes part of it? >> playing hillary clinton? >> that would be unconventional. >> no. look, mr. trump is preparing for the debates in many different ways. the best way he prepares for debates is two things. the way he prepared for the debates in the primaries where he took center stage from the very beginning, the first fox news debate on august 6, 2015 and never left the center. never left the number one position which is telling you something. number two, he prepares for these debates by giving his policy speeches. we would expect that that's what's going to be asked in the debates. are you not going to ask do you think it will rain tomorrow. they will say what's your vision, what's next for obamacare, the affordable care act, how would you destroy isis and terrorism. that's the way he prepares. i have to say, i think the clinton campaign is taking a risk by keeping her in so much

hiding because you get good at doing something by practicing it and doing it regularly. >> kellyanne conway, if you had not become campaign manager, you would have made an excellent stand-in for hillary clinton. >> you think i'm tough enough? >> you would have been fantastic at that. thank you for coming on the show. k you could still do it. coming up, jim rutenburg of the "new york times." ♪ americans are buying more and more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the united states poal service to get it there. because when you ship with us, your business becomes our business. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. the united states postal service. priority: you sorry ma'am. no burning here. ugh. heartburn.

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message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadersh. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would u? seriously..."vo: clear thinking. donald trump: "i know more abo isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move. donald trump audio only: "i would bomb the sh_t out of them." vo: just one. squuuuack, let's feed him let's feto the sharks!arks! yay! and ta all of his gold! and take all of his gold! ya! and hide it from the crew! ya...? squuuuack, they're all moro anyway! i never said that. they all smell bad too. no! you all smell wonderful! i smelbad! if you're a parrot, you repeat things. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. squuuuack, it's what you do.

welcome aboard and please, prepare for takeoff. yesterday, jim ruttenburg of the "new york times" wrote about hillary clinton breaking a campaign tradition that has been in place since the 1960s, letting the press corps travel on the plane with the candidate. clinton on the other hand flies in a separate jet. jim and "new york times" editorial page editor james bennett are with us now. gentlemen, how are you? >> good. thanks for having us. >> press conferences. we were talking earlier whether it's a thing of the past digitally or whatever, wouldn't you love to hear someone stand up and ask hillary clinton or donald trump, but hillary clinton, what are we going to do about aleppo and syria? >> we have had our foreign policy, we have foreign policy reporter has been wanting to ask her those questions for this whole campaign. we are now in almost september

and we haven't had this kind of policy issue. this is what this election should really be about. >> you have been out of the actual reporting business for quite a long time. >> thank you for noting. >> but you have -- >> so have you, actually. >> but you preside over a bunch of reporters. what i hear all the time is like all your reporters are obsessed, why do we care about press conferences, why do they matter, why is that different in some categorical way from doing interviews? >> it's a danger to talk too much about are we on the plane or not. the real question is the one jim got to, which is, is she being forced to address tough questions or not. i think there is a risk of focusing too much on the proxy which is the press conference and not talking about the important thing which is the question, which is what the press is rightly concerned about. it's not about us setting

ourselves above the candidates. it's about making sure we played the role we traditionally played of trying to hold them accountable to the american people. that is our role in this process is to ask some questions they might be uncomfortable addressing otherwise and they might not even have an interest in talking to each other about, as you were pointing out in the last segment. right now it's name calling. >> do you think the plan actually matters? >> i do think it matters. i have been looking back through the old clips, and what you see is when you are on the plane, you are getting a question in here or there. policy is kind of being talked about and by the way, it's really robbing history because those moments on the plane do say something about the people involved. what it takes part of the campaign. that's sorely lacking this year. >> i have been on those plas before you were born, probably, and what matters is the distribution of information, as you just said, but also the candidate gets to know members of the press corps in a function other than a standing press

conference. and you alluded to it in your piece today. part of the issue might be, not might be, it is, that the clinton campaign clearly has made a decision that because we are so disliked, the media, that they can make the conscious decision not to have the press conference as good political strategy. >> i question even the political strategy there because it's humanizing when you see them in more intimate moments. to james' point, it's not all about that. but it's part of the process, who are these people who want to run the country. >> one of the things that you hear from people, again, there have been a lot of arguments made by people who work for hillary clinton and people who are just supporters of hers, is this is a trivial issue, the question of press conferences, when you set it against the question of donald trump and his taxes, for instance. it's of course my view you can want both. this is a false choice, false binary between the two, but what do you say to people who say you must do more, meaning you, the "new york times," us, the press collectively, we must do more to

somehow force greater transparency on donald trump. what's the answer to that? >> i just think we have an obligation to explore the way these candidates see the world in the greatest depth possible. they are competing to take on the most important job probably in the world and there are a number of issues they are going to have to grapple with that go beyond the question of whether or not one candidate is a bigot when they are actually in office. what to do about syria is a great example. what to do about affordable housing in this country. what to do about the state of our infrastructure. how do they really think about the tax system. we are still in an age where citizen journalists have many more tools than they ever had. we still play really important function in drawing out with some depth, nuance and complexity how they actually think about those questions and if they think about them at all. >> so this is a lot of high-flying talk over here from this guy. >> sorry. >> all of which i agree with.

i think that she should do press conferences. i think trump should release his taxes. again, i'm just playing devil's advocate with all of you. a lot of democratic partisans will say you know, all she can do if she gives a press conference, she won't get questions like that. she will get 120 questions about her e-mail, she will get a bunch of questions about the foundation, all you guys are going to do is harp on the same story over and over again. you won't ask about aleppo or some of the things james is talking about. how do you answer that? >> i have two answers for that. one is okay, then i want to hear you say the same thing when it's your opponent up there, and two, you can't argue for less access. you can as a partisan but journalistically it's a nonstarter. >> i think you might be surprised if the press conference she decided to held was held in a place like pittsburgh with local reporters mixd in with national reporters and she might be asked, tell us please, secretary clinton, what impact you think nafta had on this area in terms of income inequality.

i want to hear the answer to that as a voter, as a citizen. i would want to hear the answer to that. i think she would be asked questions like that. >> how you enjoying running that editorial page? >> it's great. great privilege. >> it's a crazy campaign to be doing it. >> it is a crazy campaign. again, part of the challenge to us is also to write about issues we think people should be thinking about that maybe aren't. we are in this funny campaign where the candidates themselves aren't necessarily having that conversation. i think we can play a role. >> we are honored to have both of guys here. you are both souch smarter than we are. coming up, penn gillette. he performs a special magic trick. he will make heilemann disappear. a special magic trick for donald trump after this. (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything,

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recently a special guest appeared in our studio, the famed magician and libertarian penn gillette of penn and teller and the author of "presto, how i made over 100 pounds disappear and other magic tales." he was a contestant on two seasons of "the apprentice" so he knows what it's like to be around donald trump. we asked if he could come up with a card trick on the spot for mr. trump or about mr. trump and so, de. . >> hi. this is penn gillette of penn and teller, las vegas magician. did two tours of duty on "celebrity apprentice." i spent some time around trump. i know the way he works. >> you raised a ton of money and a lot of people will be very happy with the job you've done. >> i just created off the top of my head a donald trump card trick to illustrate how he's running his campaign. this perfectly ordinary deck of cards, you will see they are indeed all different. say the campaign is a card trick, okay?

say the american public have been asked by trump to pick a card. he fans the cards out like so and acts like the selection of the card doesn't really matter. it's an old magician's trick, the selection of the card always matters. you have to be a certain kind of nonchalant. say they pick this card right here. say they pick the jack of hearts and trump doesn't know that. they then take the card, put it back into the deck. that's how the campaign starts. don't forget it's the jack of hearts. it's somewhere in the middle of the deck. he then gives the cards a shuffle while he's talking. the pattern does not matter. you can say absolutely anything that pops into your head. say i got a perfectly ordinary deck of cards here and mexicans are rapists. then you shuffle a little bit more and say i still have a perfectly ordinary deck of cards here and no muslims into our country. the first amendment is essentially obliterated. another little shuffle, puts in a little more misdirection. >> shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any -- >> blood coming out of her -- >> lee harvey oswald -- >> i don't remember. >> saying stuff like soldiers

who died in battle -- >> probably maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. you tell me. >> when election time comes, after all this misdirection, all this shuffling, all the handling of the cards, he then has a card on top and handling it like this he produces the card and says is this your card and it's the 6 of hearts, not the jack of hearts because he's an idiot. he would never get it right. >> our thanks to penn gillette. go buy his book. we'll be right back. this car is traveling over 200 miles per hour. to win, every millisecond matters. both on the track and thousands of miles away. with the help of at&t, red bull racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. brakes are getting warm. confirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. understood, brake bias back 2 clicks. giving them the agility to have speed & precision. because no one knows & like at&t.

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gear up for great. '. some sad news today. the great comic actor gene wilder passed away today at 83 from complications from alzheimer's. what's your favorite movie of his and why? >> he was a comic genius. his appearance in "blazing saddles" i think changed the genre for a lot of comedy movies here in new york, mel brooks.

gene wilder was funny. he could be funny on the street. >> hold your breath. make a wish. count to three. we say to you -- >> sayonara. >> "hardball with chris matthews" is next. donald trump's major minority outreach speech. let's play "hardball." > good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for the vacationing chris matthews. donald trump is promising a major speech this wednesday on the subject of immigration. on saturday the republican nominee will held to detroit, where he will speak at a black church. all of this part of what trump's campaign says is an effort to reach out to minority communities. last week, trump continually asked african-american and hispanic voters what do you have to lose by voting for hi