i'd like to conclude with a passage from first john chapter 4. you know it? see, most groups i speak to don't know that. but we know it. if you want, we could say it together. >> good morning, and welcome to "am joy." well there was no two corinthians moment after weeks of speaking to white audiences about black voter, he addressed a group of african-americans yesterday. he read a 12-minute preprepared speech in detroit and though the

congregation seats 1400 people, more than half of the pews were empty. and protesters gathered outside saying no hate in the white house. if this was an attempt by team trump to improve his bleak polling with black voters, he has a long way to go. a usa today poll shows him with 2% of the black vote and lower share than jill stein and gary johnson. now for your reference, president bush won with 11% of the black vote in 2004. and then the 9% he received in 2000. and the message yesterday was different than the way he addressed audiences in rerecent weeks. how different? quite different. >> want to help you build and rebuild detroit and we can do that. >> half of all detroit residents do not work and cannot work and can't get a job. >> nothing is more sad than when

we sideline young black men with unfulfilled potential, tremendous potential. >> you are living in poverty. your schools are no good. you have no jobs. 58% of your youth is unemployed. >> you do right every day by your community and your families. you raise children in the light of god -- >> what the hell do you have to lose. it can't get any worse than what it is right now. >> things are going to turn around. tomorrow will be better. it will be much better. >> i'll be able to make sure that when you walk down the street in your inner city or wherever you are, you are not going to be shot. your child isn't going to be shot. i fully understand that the african-american community has suffered from discrimination and that there are many wrongs that must still be made right. >> and i think we're going to do

great with african-americans and with the hispanic. >> and joining me now is mark thompson of sirius xm and matt welsch and paris dennard. thank you for being here. and paris, right to you on this because we are trying to get more on the back story of how this event came together and there were twists and turns whether he would speak and he did do 12 minutes as we said. can you tell us about the construction of that -- those written remarks. who was involved in writing them? >> again, i do not work for the campaign. i'm a person who is a volunteer, as a surrogate and work for the national coalition university for trump but i could tell you, mr. trump, like he said, wrote up those remarks -- >> you are saying he wrote those remarks? you think he wrote those remarks? >> that is what mr. trump said, that he wrote the remarks and it is true to his form and he took them out of his pocket and it happened there for him to read. and it was sincere.

and it was directly appropriate because of the nature of the audience and the type of atmosphere he was in. there are two types of speech that could be given back to your earlier point. this was a speech of remarks at a church. he was invited for a church service. so it was appropriate for him to have a tone and different type of delivery at a church service as juxtaposed to being at a rally or major event. and i think the speech went over well. and earlier you mentioned his poll numbers, a survey monkey poll mentioned him at -- >> no, i didn't. >> and in terms of presidential preference, that is what you posted a few minutes ago. >> well, paris, let's go to you mark thompson. donald trump has this way of reading remarks in which he seems to be impressed by what he is reading, almost as if he is hearing it for the first time. like, wow, that is true, as he reads them. and do you believe he prepared those remarks that he read

yesterday. >> thank you for having me. but he acted as if he knew something that the african-american culture didn't know. you know it. he was surprised they knew it. but it was hypocritical and ironic because that scripture in first john 4 it is book ended my mother's scripture and it begins about speaking with love not just with speech and words but with truth and action. and it also says to test spirits, because there are many spirits that are false prophets, just before that verse he read. so it is interesting that he would pick that because donald trump is a false prophet coming into an african-american church and never been in one before and never done anything on the behalf of the african-american community. a number of things we'll get into have shown him to be discriminatory toward the african-american community. >> and what do you make of those

remarks, your response to that, paris? >> i think it is irresponsible and it is wrong and it is false. mr. trump has had a continued engagement and relationship for a very long time with the african-american community. >> how so? when? >> going back to when he opened up his properties in florida to african-americans and to jews when he opened up property to reverend jesse jackson when they needed office space and when he was the executive on the apprentice and the amount of african-americans on the show that he promoted. you saw that even now during the primary campaign when he met several times with african-american leaders, clergy and business people. and then when he became the nominee of the gop, an extended effort and the national diversity coalition is worked for over a year in support of mr. trump. it is a continued effort. whether you want to believe it or question it, that is fine. but the truth is while mr. trump has been engaging with the community for the past two weeks

secretary clinton is hiding and doing fundraisers and refusing to talk to the press. as more of the facts come out about what he is doing and she continues to do, we should point out the fact it is a good thing that the gop nominee cares and wanted to engage and be the president of all people. this is what you do. >> you are doing a very long speech but you mentioned in those extended remarks and i wanted to let you completely get your thoughts out because every time i've had you on you go to those particular wells. you mentioned his engagement with black celebrities, so allowing rich black people come to mara logo at a time when building his brand depending on people like mike tyson and russell sims and sean puffy combs and mentioned him renting space to jesse jackson and maybe we could get in touch with reverend jackson because he made him also a quasi endorser of trump in your remarks -- hold on

a second. we'll try to get in touch with reverend jackson. i think it is only fair, that if you keep invoking him, he gets to respond. and you mention celebrity apprentice, you are engaging that as a substitution for the black community. hold on a second. that is what they are. those are black celebrities who donald trump has been associated with. we've shown a couple of the pictures. so i want to ask why do you suppose the black celebrities who are the only people that you have just mentioned being engaged with, why are none coming out and endorsing him and where is russell simons and where are the black celebrities that he opened the hotel to, where are they. >> mr. trump is not a career politician. so in the course of his career, as a business developer, as a celebrity on his shows, that was his engagement. >> but why aren't they endorsing him? why isn't mike tyson and russell simons, and if he was a great advocate for their civil rights

why did mike tyson say no thank you to coming to the rnc convention and none of the celebrities who you say he has engaged with have come out and endorsed him. >> they haven't come out and said anything negative. >> russell simons rebuked him for the past position on race, including racial discrimination against regular order nair african-americans who want to rent from him. >> that is veterconvenient now he is running. but what people understand even herschel walker talk when you support a republican or somebody like trump -- >> is herschel walker endorsing trump? if he is not, he is not relevant to the conversation. i want to bring in the rest of the panel. your thoughts. >> i think it is remarkable that that was his first time as far as we know in a black church, to be a leader of the new york business community, a person who has been involved in politics and never to have stepped foot

in a black church is shocking. and i think it is amazing, to see, as the segment showed, the difference between the tenure about what he says about african-americans and he kind of barks at african-americans when black people aren't there and then the calm and measured way he talked to black people for whatever -- >> it is sort of similar to what happened i think when you look at the difference between his speech in arizona and then -- >> and then the speech in the afternoon in mexico. but we talk about daytime trump and night time trump and there is also xanax trump and dennis hopper from blue velvet trump. >> and let's play that comparison. because i think something is true and i want to get you in on this, matt, there was some similar dichotomy to the way he has made mexico the villain in his conversation that he's having with his supporters and the way he spoke when he was in front of the mexican president. take a look. >> we recognize and respect the

right of either country to build a physical barrier or wall on any of its borders to stop the illegal movement of people, drugs, and weapons. >> deadly and it is deadly, nonhyphen forcemeno nonenforcement policies to freely walk our streets and walk around, do whatever they want to do, crime all over the place. >> mexico does not like us. mexico is not our friend. mexico is the new china. mexico will pay -- you mark my words -- i win and mexico pays. >> i have many friends. so many friends and so many friends coming to mexico and in mexico. >> they are bringing drugs. they are bringing crime. they are rapists. and some, i assume, are good people. >> the united states first second and third generation

mexicans are just beyond reproach, spectacular, spectacular, hard-working people. >> so matt, you you do sort of see this day time and night time trump in the way he is communitying and that is a challenge that republicans have had in broadening the base because there is a difference in the way they talk about people of color to whip up the base and then they have to communicate with people. >> republicans know they are not broadening their base for this cycle, for crying out loud. and the honest ones will say that and the dishonest ones will sit on their hands while donald trump talks about this stuff. part of being a novice candidate, it is normal for a presidential candidate after labor day to go after the african-american community. we've seen this happen before. but the discovery process of donald trump it is like we are the party of lincoln. >> and he told that -- and

people said they don't know that. >> and in democratic cities run by democratic people and there is a lot of african-american poverty and crime. did you know that one, too. this is known. these playbooks have been used for a long time. he is not particularly sophisticated at it and it is not going to win any new converts to those line of arguments. in fact, his unfamiliarity with those arguments signal something deferential togeth-- different altogether and that is shows him in fourth place in african-american community and dozens of polls like this in this cycle. >> and paris, i will let you respond but we did get reverend jesse jackson and i think it is only fair for him to weigh so we'll hold you over after the break. and my folks will be back later in the show. but when i come back, i want to let reverend jesse jackson and before we go to break, let's look at this moment of zen from ben carson yesterday.

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that is donald trump in detroit yesterday at a black church. mark and paris are still with me. we are joined by jamil smith of mtv news and since his name was invoked, we did reach out to jesse jackson to what paris said regarding his positive words about donald trump. are you there? >> indeed.

how are you today. >> i'm wonderful. happy sunday to, you sir. so in 1998, or thereabouts, reverend jackson, we did go back to find out if there was back-up for what paris said and you had positive words to say about donald trump back in 1998 and i believe he rented space to your wall street initiative and what was that about? >> he was working with president clinton as a progressive liberal and contributing to clinton at the time. we had business people that were offering to blacks and latinos for the first time and it is the cause of this. [ inaudible ]. this is what he makes reference to and was reverted and since that time he's come out for the race of the working people and since that time the --

[ inaudible ]. and since that time we think it is rationally pertaining to civil rights. >> are you saying essentially that the positive remarks that you made about him in 1998, you no longer feel that way today? >> well i think -- people who -- chris williams and ron baylock could not get business on wall street. we tried to desegregate wall street. he was a part of that. but i had no idea until i heard about the birther movement that he even tried to disrupt president barack obama's candidacy as not being legitimate and he challenged the mexican trade and we lose more jobs and temporary workers and agencies and mexico relations and to ban muslims. he's come out with this in the last 18 months or so, different than what he was 20 years ago.

it is very different. >> and paris, what do you say to that? because it doesn't sound as if those remarks from back to 1998 are operative for reverend jackson today. >> i think it shows that there is a narrative out there that says mr. trump is never engaged with the black community and he has no relation with the black community and that is the narrative you all want to play and what this video, if you are to show it and to hear reverend jackson comment glowingly. >> but what about what he just said today. are you going to -- you are going back to 1998. he said since then, what he has seen of donald trump, it is not so positive. could you address what reverend jackson just said. >> and what he didn't talk about is why he was praising mr. trump then and the fact that we could admit mr. trump was engaged and doing -- >> in 1998 -- okay. go on. >> for example, joy, he decries the guns and -- and with

background checks and policy of the weapons and you won't raise minimum wages and they can't get medicaid. so as a politician and as a public policymaker, things were different at that time. >> i have to get mark in. but mark first and then jamil. >> well, i condition help, i'm trying to keep a straight face. joan was accurate -- xanax trump. >> joy, you can't let that go on. that is grossly inappropriate. >> i'm talking in pairs. >> watch how you talk to somebody like that. it is grossly inappropriate to -- >> paris, paris -- >> because when people raise questions about hillary clinton and her health and we go all bonkers but when you claim somebody is on some type of a drug. that is wrong. >> it is a metaphor. >> and i think that is fair. what you think is fair, paris, but i hope the next time that i you ask not to use the term

"illegals "you will have the same respond because we've had the conversation about the way we communicate about other people but i think it is fair but i think it has to go for everyone. so let's have mark finish his -- >> and paris, i didn't want to cut you off either. and what i've said is obviously he's changed positions at different times as he's always had but we are dealing with what is going on right now today. now prior to whatever positive relationship he had with rainbow pushing good morning reverend jackson, we know his history prior to that. he was investigated by the department of justice. they had to sign a consent decree. he is running around talking about hillary clinton being dishonest about knowing what c meant on the e-mails, meaning classified. they required their building managers and intents to write c. on african-american applicants and we know what that meant then

and it meant colored. so this doesn't change anything. he's not the person that he was when he was working with the wall street project and when he was doing all of that and that was all well and good. and i would even ask ref and jackson -- reverend jackson, what difference has he made as far as the black americans on wall street. >> we have spent some time in his office and for that we are grateful. but for an enforceable just law and a budget is not a suggestion, if you want to support civil rights you have to support justice and inequality and workers wages and access to health care. this public policy of today and he said that in two months, he has to work for people. >> jamil, one of the things that we've seen trump even talk about

himself is the fact he is a business man and would do business with whoever was in power, in 1998 we were talking about a democratic nomination and working with jesse jackson who was an adviser to clinton and could we talk about the donald trump that is in place when he is sort of, i guess, in communion with the power and the power of democrats and the donald trump now who is running against the democrats. >> i think we need to look at it from a couple of different angles. first things first. we are not so occupied with what is in his heart. that is not the point. he steps into a african-american church yesterday and offers no policy solutions. he makes promises about what he will do and how he will bring back the sun more or less and he doesn't say anything about how he will get that done. so what we see in there, whether or not he was a business man or a policymaker working with that administration, he is ber eft of

solutions and that is what the african-americans need. >> the other thing is mr. paris used this -- i wish he would give me a call. i would like to discuss this with you. i'm not hostile at all. i'm dealing with all of the options. who is best for working poor people. who has a plan to invest in infrastructure. in these cities, there is all of the name-calling. joy, it is the movement and these types of jobs, and cut tall grass and landscaping jobs and the mother is home and they are holding down jobs and do you think a building man -- building today, [ inaudible ]. i'm looking for a policy that matters to urban and rural america. >> and to that point, paris, do you think beyond speaking in this black church do you think it is a good idea for donald trump, and you said you are not part of the campaign so you couldn't advise him to do it but

do you think it would be a good idea for beyond this prepared remark in a church, that donald trump should start to get specific about what policies he would bring to the table that would impact african-americans. >> oh, absolutely, joy. there is no doubt about it. i think mr. jesse jackson is right. someone with mr. trump background in building jobs and being a job creator, i believe he is the ability to talk about these things and he said during the church service that he would lay out some policy as related to jobs. so i would hope that the campaign does do that. because it is important that our community hears from the specifics about what policy he has to make america great again for everyone, especially our community as it relates to job and education and unemployment and also crime. especially in some of the urban cities which is pretty devastating. so i think that policy is coming -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> go ahead. >> [ inaudible ] there is a sign

to change the policy. to rebuild urban america requires a plan and a budget and we have none of that and we deserve it. >> and the final question i would ask, you paris, is that in -- and reverend jackson has just alluded to it as well, since it is sunday, right and part of what one has to do to create a relationship to atone in some ways for the things in the past. the clintons have had to essentially walk back much of clinton era policy and apologize on giving in on issues of gay rights and hillary clinton had to apologize the crime bill but her comment about super-preddors she had to apologize and affirmatively atone for what they've done to cause pain in the black community. do you think it is a good idea

for donald trump to atone and to apologize, especially for the housing discrimination, because that is a component of what keeps african-american urban communities from beginning to advance. do you think he should apologize for that? >> look, mr. trump said in the recent speech and he did apologize for things that he might have said that were taken out of context or people might have viewed offensive. and it relates to the housing issue. there was a settlement of -- and as i understand the case, it was a large investigation with a number of organizations and things. and so there is no direct evidence that mr. trump or his farther ever ordered -- >> that is not true. >> and paris -- >> but you know what -- oh, so now you could interrupt me. >> hold on. too many voices. too many voices at one time. >> this is what i know. [ multiple speakers ] >> i'll finish my statement and i'll be done with it. i have to go to church and

someone is speaking. >> and come to your church and -- >> and ask him. >> if mr. trump wants to go to your church. >> i'm going to church and it is a black church. >> go on to church. we don't want to keep anything from the church on the lord's day so thank you for being here and the fact that that changed for the viewers edification and we know that settlement was with the nixon administration and it was with the trump companies and that was clear. reverend jesse jackson thank you for being here and we'll be back later in the show. and thank you guys. after the break, if you can't win the game, do you just try to win the rules? we'll explain next. my dog girlfriend is 17 years old. she's been eating dog chow from her very first day and she can still chase squirrels. she can't catch them, but she can still chase them. after 17 years i'm still confident in feeding her

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african-american and there is a poll showing that donald trump in a two-way race with hillary clinton is at about 8%, that is donald trump versus hillary clinton. 87% for hillary clinton and 8% for trump. now let's good over to the other most recent polls. suffolk university poll, 92% for hillary clinton and 4% for donald trump in that two-way match-up. but here is the poll that shows all four of the contenders for the presidency. we could scroll on to -- there we go, the usa today suffolk poll, four-way race and trump at 2%, versus 87% for hillary clinton and 4% for gary johnson and jill stein. and coming up. the access to the polls across the country and are the russians trying to hack the election. the block the trump hour is next. and in the next half hour. star track. really. we are totally geeking out on "am joy." stay with us. know was that i had dry, itchy eyes.

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last week we told you about

cross-check, the system designs to prevent double voting by flaggering voters who may be registered in two states making them eligible to be removed from the registration rolls. it was reported it is deeply flawed and tagging names that don't match as evidence of a double voter and said the system targeted voters of color who are likely to have names like washington and hernandez. it was promoted by kansas secretary of state and trump supporter cobach and he said in a statement to "am joy," it is absurd to say that the program targets anyone. it is a computer that simply identified matching names and dates of birth and last four digits of social security numbers an the computer software doesn't discriminate and it just identifies matches. and joining me is greg palace and i want to get your response, to what he said, it is a

computer program and it just matches last four digits of social security numbers. your response. >> it is jim crow in cyber space but instead of using white sheets, they are using spreadsheets. here is how it works. i just met with donald alexander webster jr. in the swing state of ohio he is accused of voting as a second time as donald eugene webster senior. that is their wonderful sophisticated program for finding double voters, wrong middle names, father and son and junior and senior matched. yes, it is not discriminatory, it is just matching first and last names. that means common names and hernandez and jackson, wong, that means democrats. you are kidding me. i confronted this guy, chris cobalk, mr. trump's adviser on the wall by the way and i confronted him and he wouldn't meet with me and i confronted

him and i showed him the lists were dead wrong and his instructions say, yes, we have social security numbers but if they don't match, ignore the match. this is nothing but the latest form of computer racial purging. it is one of the ugliest but most sophisticated and sure cobalk is screaming and so is the head of north carolina, she was screaming to my boss at rolling stone, that we are not accusing the people of voting twice, but we're removing them from the voter rolls. >> could you tell us where and what states have you been determine this program is being used in? >> oh, yes. well basically, about 28 republican-controlled voting states. in other words where they have control of the secretary of state. in the swing state of ohio, where the republican and very

partisan republican chief, he is like the katherine harris of ohio is just burning straight through the voter registrations, burning through black names, removing them from the voter rolls in ohio. you see it in north carolina. the other big swing state. and nevada, we have to look out for, too. the republicans control that. and again, i'm not -- i'm not democrat, i'm not republican. i'm just very concerned about the racial smell of this operation. our experts have gone straight through the list, 2 million names that we now have, 2 million names, it is way biased against minorities and the matching system, according to experts, is laughable and dangerous. >> and you know, we want to let voters know, if you are in any state, you should be checking your voter registration because you don't want to find this out at the polls. and greg palace just identified ohio, north carolina and nevada and three swing states and

people should check voter registrations but this is alarming. stay with us. but wei want to turn to russian-based hackers recently breached the system in illinois and stealing data from 200,000 voter records and they tried to breach the arizona voter data base as well. joining me now is malcolm nance. and what is the threat of learua hackers and is the big threat the identity theft or altering the voter rolls. >> there are a multitude of things in the voter rolls. right off the bat and russia is highly experienced in this on the intelligence and criminal side, they could steal all of the information about the voters and go out and do mass identity theft. they are very good at that, just as well as the chinese are. but on the other hand, one of the other components that we're finding here is that there is

very little chance that they are actually going to hack the voting machines themselves. they are stand-alone and not connected to the internet. where they could compete may ham if they so choose is going after the computers with the voting tabulations on voting day. and in pennsylvania, someone in particular made a threat about, if that state doesn't go that way and if there were maliciously 100,000 votes dumped from one side to the other, it could create electoral chaos in the country and there by the belief of invalidating this election could quite possibly occur. >> this is terrifying. i recall that back in 2004 you looked into the 2000 election and the shenanigans that went on in terms of raising doubts about the veracity of certain states' results. are you concerned both on the side of removing people from the rolls but also what malcolm just talked about with tampering with

the election? >> well, if the russians from moscow could get into the machines, imagine the secretary of state or the partisan secretary of state that we have in charge in ohio, north carolina and arizona, can they get into their own machines? oh, yeah. so we have to be concerned. i'm mostly concerned, i must admit, about whacking the voter rolls before people get to vote. they don't even worry about getting their vote changed, they don't get to vote. that is very dangerous, if they get into the voter rolls and whether it is republican operatives or from russia, i don't think that donald trump needs help from moscow when he has the people in control of those machines, partisan secretaries of state in charge in ohio and north carolina and arizona. >> absolutely. and malcolm, just as a final note to you, there is now increasing looking at additional dumps from the previous russian hack as we exit, what is the latest on that? should we looking for the dumps

to be pristine or some things that change in them. if you see another dump doing with the dnc or the dccc how would you deal with. >> right now anything that comes out of wikileaks should be suspect. and we know and u.s. intelligence has been working this mission for several months, more than a year now. we know that these hacks have come from russia. we know they are associated with the former kgb now known as the fsb. they are intelligence branch fsr and the russian military intelligence. unless the president comes out and makes that known, the nsa and the cyber commander will not come out and tell you that. but i just had a mini conference with the top hackers in private industry this week and we sat down and discussed all of this coming out and their number one fear is that not only will there be black propaganda, that is information manipulated and put into the system, but everyone understands this is a form of

russian hybrid warfare. they have done this to other nations. astonia and ukraine and they decided this needs to be leaked out to assist the candidate more amenable to their strategic goals an that is donald j. trump and being their candidate to a certain extent, and certainly everything else they could do, whether it is putting out an e-mail that is malicious, i think at this point they will do it. >> a lot to be nervous about from the two gentlemen but the fundamental message was check your voter registration and make sure you are on the rolls. thank you both. really appreciate it. than than thank you. ? the next hour, we talk to the author of the book and when we come back we'll talk about the

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once again, i'm not anti-american. i love america, i love people. that is why i'm doing this. i want to help make america better. >> colin kaepernick is still a quarterback with the san francisco 49ers this morning. but he won't be the starter in the team season opener. saturday was the deadline for all nfl teams to cut their rosters down to the final 53 players and there was speculation that the 49ers might drop kaepernick over his refusal to stand for the anthem.

he is protesting police inequality and it is sparked a national debate about race and patriotism and the words about the star spangle the banner and includes no refuge could save the hire ling and slave from the terror of flight and the gloom of the grave. and author of the book "words on the move" so i'm so glad that you are here. and i want to know what you think about this and i'm fascinated to know your overall opinion of what col inkaepernick is doing. >> i salute what he's doing. because i think the tension between black people and police forces is the main thing keeping america from getting past race. pull away and we would be in a new day. and he is using a national platform to make the statement. and you know, what is he supposed to do?

tweet? chat? he's going to do this in front of the nation and in a very visible way and he is part of a climate that we need. the idea of saying the man isn't a patriot is look liking at ellen degeneres of putting herself on a black man's back as a joke and calling her a bigot. we use the words in a sloppy way. he is trying to make a very important statement and i'm glad he is doing it. >> and speaking of the way we use words, it is interesting the way people transfer the identity of patriotism and loving your country on to sort of symbolic things that are in congress with the thing they are involved in. so the national anthem at sports events is not something that goes back to the founding of the country, it goes back to t the '30ing and a way to get people to come to the games after world war i people weren't into going to baseball games, quite frankly so the fact that we've attached somber significance to a song that wasn't our anthem until 1931. >> it is a witch hunting him ime

that needs to go. and there is a black and white issue where if you scold your country you despite your country and you would be in hungary or sri lanka. and with the star spangled banner, most people have never liked that song that much. it is difficult to sing. and it is in a style that is outdated outdate terms of poetry and it becomes when this poor man makes a statement about the most important racial issue of our times. >> and not only that is it is a totem when people don't know the words. this is a five stanza poem that is written after the war of 1812 and has nothing to do with the founding of the country and when we were fighting an aggressive war to take canada from the brits and the reason i love the fact that you are here is the third stanza has to do with the fact that slaves were offered

freedom if they would fight for britain and 6,000 american slaves took them up on this so francis scott key writes that a home in a country should leave us no more and their blood has washed and their foul pollution and no refuge could save them from the terror of flight and the gloom of grave. could you imagine anybody singing that as a national anthem. >> there is a reason we let that go. in the nursery rhymes there are things that we let go by and pretend we don't know what they mean. and the third stanza implies that slavery is normal. we don't sing it any more. and it is old and to be honest, i don't think it is a racist song. it was written in a different context a different long time ago and we don't sing that stanza and therefore it is not really there. but more to the point, if you want to scold the country, and you are a person whose main

statement that relates to patriotism at all is whether or not you stand up for a certain rather peculiar song played before the events you are paid to play in, yes, you will keep sitting down. and if he is doing anything wrong, we are here having this discussion and keeps something moving on. a lot of people don't like this, that if the discussion moved forward they wouldn't be so angry about the racial issues that bother them so much and we have to wait to see that vindicated. >> you are great. and i hope we could get you back. >> oh, i'm back. >> we're going to have you on a lot. you are terrific. we appreciate it. the next time that kaepernick will have the opportunity to protest or not protest is monday, september 12th against the rams. ready for some football. in the next hour we talk to j.d. vance about the impact white working class voters are having on the came and we'll discuss whether the media is trying too hard to make hillary

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good morning and welcome back to "am joy." a new book on the number two spot on the new york times best-seller list tells a story of one white working class family whose personal challenges offer insight into why the trump message has resonated. in hillbilly elegy, vance talked about the upbringing in the rust belt where they struggled with homeless and poverty and drug abuse and the decline of culture and and economic since tucsons that -- the institution that provide the support and writing of them, i identify with the millions of working class white americans of scots-irish decent who have no college degree. and to these folks, poverty is

the family, tradition, americans call them hillbillies and red necks or white trash and i call them part of the family. and thank you for being here and i've seen so many interviews and i have the book right here and can't wait to dive into it. and the story is fascinating. way you went from result belt country to yale. could you briefly give us a synopsis of your own story. >> so i grew up in a pretty rough and tumble area and my family struggled with the things that white working class americans are struggling from, but thanks to the promise of my grandparents and them playing a positive role in my life, i was able to get out, as they say. i join the the marine corp as a lot of kids in my neighborhood did and went from there to college and then to yale law school. so i've had a good life. a kind of classically upwardly mobile life but the book is why there aren't more kids like me and why i was one of the lucky few and why there are more that are lucky like i am.

>> and what is fascinating about the story and the story that you tell about the people you call the hillbilly world that even sometimes earn the contempt of fellow white americans is how similar some of the pathology you talk about are to the pathology that normally people assign to african-americans. that these ideas about the way you are raised, by your grand patient parents and use the military to get a college degree and that is familiar across racial lines and so do you suppose there is a huge gulf and distance ideologically from african-americans and from people like the ones where you came from. >> a lot of it goes back to 40 or 50 years ago when the two groups sort of diverged because of certain policies that were supported by nixon, by goldwater and so forth. and so i think some of it has that root in the history. a big part is the way black americans have been discriminated against legally, i

think black american is intended to focus on the politics of race and which party will provide the most racial uplift or tear down the most legal barriers and white americans have voted pocket book and politics of class and they've tended to not necessarily overlap. they have sometimes, of course, but most of the times they are often voting for different groups. >> and it is interesting, you say voting the politics of class or pocket book and whether it is in the book what is the matter with kansas and the way we look at white working class americans and i think most vote against their economic interest and come anti-union even though that is what lifted up americans after world war ii and gave them opportunity and against policies that help the poor even if they are themselves in need of social services or things like food stamps and so why do you suppose that is. >> a big part of it is that folks in the white working class are uncomfortable with the fact they need hand-outs. even though they are voting against the candidate who will

give them something economically and when they are voting the class, they are voting pride, pride in who they are. and so they have a little bit of leeway, partially because they are not as destitute of poor folks of other minority groups but partially just because they have built in some ways a politics of pride and that is in some ways often takes precedence over the economic stuff. >> and how much does race play into it. because it is impossible to talk about anything when you are talking about american history without talking about race and racial an imous and you make a point in a lot of i was even if the white poor are economically struggling, they still, in a sense, have that sense that they have it over african-americans in terms of their rank in society. how much does that play into this ante pathy for the democratic party which has become the home of black voters. >> well it plays a part. there is a chunk of the david

duke vote that is supporting donald trump. but i don't think it is the majority part of the white working class. there is a danger in being too reductionist, there is racial and economic anxiety and the cultural anxiety and seeing too many heroin overdoses in your community or rising mortality rates and my sense is that -- it is more complicated and we should recognize the role that race plays in it and not be too reductionist about saying this is a racist group of people because that is not what i see in my own family and it doesn't give credence to how much the folks are struggling. >> and i want to read from your book an excerpt and it said it is not entirely clear how trump plans to bring factory jobs back to southern ohio or rid eastern kentucky of the prescription drug epidemic or cure western pennsylvania's teenagers of the heroin addiction yet for people who no longer believe in the american dream of their parents and grandparents, slogans may be

enough. making america great again may sound trite to some but for people reeling from a loss of civic faith, it is music to their ears. why is this group so pessimistic and explain why trump's slogans resonate with them. >> and part of that pessimism is rooting in something legitimate. and my grandparent's life, they thought their kids would have a better material life than they would have but the white working class have gone from the constant economic promise and so that created detachment from the country and lack of faith in the future and donald trump has exploited that lack of faith to a people who feel like maybe their country isn't that great any more. the slogan make america great again resonates. >> and as we wrap up, about barack obama, talk about the election increasing the optimism

and made people feel that the country could move forward in terms of things like race and why is this group so pessimistic, specifically in the obama era. >> i think there is a growing sense that the elite of the political and football world are unlike people like me. they talk a certain way and they act a certain way and they have certain educational credentials that most people in my community don't have. so there is this growing sense of cultural chasm and some people wonder if they are on the wrong side of the line and if they could join the good side again. >> it is a fascinating book. this is the book. it is "hillbilly elegy", a memoir of family in crisis and congratulations on the success of the book and thank you so much for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> j.d. vance, thank you. and up next, the panel will weigh in on the importance and the effect of the white vote. stay with us. it's the phillips' lady!

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if you voted for president -- raise your hand if you voted for president obama in 2012? raise your hand if you are leaning toward or trust hillary clinton in the plans she's put forward to try to bring jobs back? >> what do they need to do to turn this around? >> i'm thinking about it. >> why? >> because -- i don't trust hillary. >> that was some of what we heard back in july when we visited with a group of steel

workers, most of them had been laid off from jobs in ohio. and joining me now are radio host -- and jamil smith and robert jones and author of the great new book the end of white christian america. thank you for being here. and i have to go to robbie because he has the disadvantage of not being here at the desk, you are the perfect book end after j.d. vance wright about his life of growing up in it result belt america and put that in numbers what he talked about, what does that mean for the way that white working class americans vote on how they are expected to vote this year? >> i think that is right. in many ways, i think my book is dealing with the demographic changes. maybe the 30,000 foot level and really looking at it quwan ta quantitatively and from the

memoir and things that stood out were the sentiment of nostalgia for a time when working class wages would put food on the table and make a family life kind of workable when we had -- the other piece of it that we need to talk about as much about is when we had white protestant churches and at the center of the communities that young people were going to and they had power. and there is this sense of a lost cultural world that is economic and social and cultural and if we look at demographics and you mention the obama era and we've gone through dramatic changes during the obama era. so if we look at people identified as white and christian and gone from 54% to 45% today after the obama term so i think white working class americans and protestant christians feel not only is the economic basis slip ago way but the culture that the parents built is slipping from american

cultural life. >> and we could look at the polls. and donald trump 62 percent and hillary in terms of favor ability, and hillth only at 48% and protestants much lower and catholics even lower and until you get to black protestants and we have a wealth of pollsters here today and which is great because we have fernando mandi. and what i find fascinating, when we talk about the working class, we default to talk about the white working class but you have black and brown that are working class, too. and why do you suppose the sentiment of black and hispanic working class are different when the economics are so similar. >> because they don't think donald trump is not a racist, this is not polling, but conjecture based on black voters and do you think trump is a racist and a majority say yes

and that is a disqualifier. and when it comes to white working class voters, they would prefer to vote for ronald reagan or kennedy and they don't see them, they see john sensei, from the karate kid and that is giving that a reverse effect. i think there is a hidden trump. i think there is a anti-trump vote from working class voters because they know he won't hire them, will fire them. >> and crystal, you live now in kentucky and you grew up in this region, at least in this part of the country. do you think that this -- that the question of whether donald trump is or isn't racist, does that -- how does that land with white working class voters. is that something they think about and does it influence their votes because it does seem from the data that does include college educated white women but does it include working class white voters. >> i don't think it is a

particularly loud argument and what is just missing from the conversation that you can't avoid is the role of race in all of this. because when we really first saw white working class voters moving away from the democratic party, it was under ronald reagan who made these very racial appeals, talking about welfare queens and young bucs buying their big steaks and creating this understanding that the welfare system wasn't set up to support hard-working white folks and themselves and families and it was set up to serve the undeserving other and that with the appeals and what is the matter with kansas has continually over time moved this group away from the democratic party. i also don't want to let democrats off the hook, though, because not to throw another book into the mix, but thomas frank has another great book called listen liberal where he argues persuasively that the democratic party said they would be the party of the professional class and the party of wall street and that has further isolated them from a cultural and real-world policy

perspective from the labor movement from the working class white folks who are open to the appeals from trump. i don't think you could leave race out of the mix because of the sense that the culture is moving away from them is seeing someone like barack obama, who comes from obviously a mix race background and has this life they can't relate to, the fact that he is black is part of that not being able to -- >> and rolling stone has a chart where they look at racial resentment among noncollege white voters and it is pretty pronounced as compared to other demographic groups. so in that case, how could the democrats navigate a situation where they want to win back the voters and have them back in the fold and the pabst blue ribbon party, how do they do that and hang on to the voters of color. >> stop promising that you are going to bring jobs to the area. i'm from cleveland where the steel workers were and a lot of people have been led by republicans and democrats to believe that somehow and some

way these old industries are going to come back. you need to see, specially from democrats. >> that is projection from the future. we'll have new industries that are thriving in your area. cleveland is a good example with the health tech corridor. >> and that is trying to argue with the green revolution and we'll have new green jobs and that is what we're trying to tell coal country and that doesn't land because folks don't know anything that has worked in the region other than coal and they are not stupid and they know the reality but they don't want an outsider coming in and saying your jobs are going away. >> not to take our makeup room conversations public but you talked about hillary clinton's comment about coal miners didn't land well. >> no. it is hard to overstate how important that one comment about how coal miners will lose their jobs has resonated. yes, it was taken out of context and it is not fair and she tried to clean it up but that one statement spoke to something

they already fear and already felt and it has been repeated and it really resonated in a region already very mistrustful. >> and so robbie, when you look at this coined term of nostalgia voters and they are nostalgic for the old industries which employed them, whether it is the steel industry or the coal mining jobs that are not coming back and how could politicians communicate honestly with folks who do want to hang on to that past? >> yeah, well this is a really important question because i think on the one hand we have a candidate making large promises, like i'm going to build a wall and bring these manufacturing jobs back, which clearly there is no plan in place to do that. it doesn't look very promising. and on the other hand you have a candidate that made a callis comment offhand. and we have a new commitment to retraining in appalachia but that seems far off and on the horizon and not right there. and one of the things i've sort of hung on to is that many white

working class americans in appalachia and in indiana where carrier was taking jobs to mexico were saying, look, at least donald trump is talking about us. he sees us and he understands our problem and i think even if they had problems with the candidate there is a sense in which he was there and even if the prompt sounded empty, there was a sense he was naming a problem very close at hand and he was promising a solution close at hand where i think the jobs retraining sounds a generation off and if you are a 50-year-old unemployed steel worker or coal miner, it is hard to know what to do with that. >> i think if there is a reason to take the democrats to task and there is, eight years ago this month the economy fell out the -- the bottom fell out of the economy and that is why in the very clip we started the segt with asking working class white voters did you vote for john mccain and they said yes. and it is to make a case of how the economy improved gradually over eight years ago and remember it was in 2000 in the

aftermath of the greatest expansion, white working class voters went away from the democratic policies and went with george w. bush. and unless they make that case, i think he is right. if trump is the only one talking about this, that is a failure for democrats. >> i think democrats have made a big mistake by failing to get behind the labor movement and talk about unions in a compelling way. because that is part of the past that the white working class does relate to. and we really haven't heard anything about unions. and donald trump is out there busting unions at his hotels. so it is a clear point of convention where you could say, this guy is not on your side and look at what he is doing to his workers and in lorraine, ohio, two were workers. >> and you have to look at where they are getting their information. from bad media source and having a candidate that is spewing lies in every speech about what their situation is and what the other candidate has said. so i mean, you have to really think about where people are

getting their -- their source material. i get what people are saying, like, oh, this is a really fraught time. but you have to understand that people are getting lied to and we have to address that as well. >> and one of the things i will say as we wrap up, when we talking to the guys in lorraine, they are getting information from each other. and even just from driving around, we drove around the town and there were not a lot of steel jobs but every other corner had a dollar store on it and they are sensitive that what used to feed their families are reduced to dollar stores. and we'll have more and we'll be back. and thank you very much. and up next, the challenge of covering clinton v. trump and more on the media endless dilemma, after the break. and i make dog chow in denver, colorado. one of my fondest memories of khloe is the day we got her. i knew right there she was gonna be a great dog. khloe's a big influence on the family. she loved lincoln from the start. she's his little protector.

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donald trump pin ball from diplomacy to hard-line rage, we saw the media fumble in a presidential election defined by extremes. take "the new york times" who jumped the gun on the initial reporting on the arizona speech on immigration. they hailed the speech at aud itious and reinvention for trump in his support for the u.s. and mexico working jointly to solve the immigration crisis. and the paper characterized the speeches a stark turn around from the deportation force and the other severe tactics that helped him one the republican nominee. except, that wasn't what donald trump said at all. "the new york times" quickly yanked that version of the story and posted another one that more accurately reflected the speech that trump actually delivered. you could see the extensive re-writes highlighted here by the edit tracking site. so after that 24 hour trump related debacle, the next morning, the big headline was this, bill clinton used tax

dollars to subsidize her private e-mail server. it resurrected the e-mails with the suggestion that bill clinton used federal money set aside for former presidents to sub suddenize e-mail servers, including work on her private server. but if you dig deeper into the story and it turns out after reviewing thousands of pages of records, the politico investigation does not reveal anything illegal. and after the clinton campaign responded by pointing out that the maim servers were paid for with her own money and the servers in question housed former president speeches, not his wife e-mails, politico switched to a new headline saying the tax dollars went not to her private e-mail server, but to e-mail support. but the e-mail searched for scandal and on thursday new york times raised e-mails raise question about ties about the clinton ties to the foundation.

and one obtained a passport related to her 2009 mission to free two american journalists detained in north korea and the answer to those questions about whether the clinton foundation received special access from hillary clinton state department was a resounding no. as the times reports in the story, the state department never issued the passport to the official who made the request. and so why is the media looking for a clinton scandal when there is none to find? in trying so hard to see a trump pivot when he shows no signs of ever pivoting. i'll ask those questions to my guests after the break. hmmmmm... the turbocharged dream machine. the volkswagen golf gti. named one of car and driver's 10best, 10 years in a row.

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guns they are about a magical thing called optics. >> let's be clear. this is all innuendo. no pay for play has been found or smoking gun have been found. but like many scandals, it looks bad. >> if there is no evidence of illegalality, the appearance of trouble abounds. >> and at the very least there is an appearance of the conflict of the foundation. >> and the perception is not good. >> but it is the ottptics of wh went on in terms of who gave to the charity while clinton was secretary of state. >> and back with me, fen and amandy and cristal ball and let's talk about this optics. you are on the radio and talking to you about hillary clinton, which is the thing that brothers th -- bothers them, it is the concrete or the appearances.

>> it is the optic of her. they can't stand her. and if there wasn't an e-mail scandal, they would have to invent a scandal to balance what i think is really a false equivalen equivalen equivalency. because we've never seen a candidate like donald trump and he said like a hundred disqualifying statements but yet because the media doesn't want to call the race early because folks want to have the back and forth, they will continue pounding on this over and over again. but i think this will change during the debates, the debates start in now less than a month and a little known and a little important story, horrible news for donald trump, when martha raditz was announced as one of the debate moderators and she will host with anderson cooper, that is lights out for donald trump because they stick to the policy and will push back and i don't see how optics will pierce through that debate when everybody is looking. >> he is lucky that is in the town hall format because it makes had harder to do that sort of push-back. it has been remarkable. you do have a media that wants to do this while both sides are terrible. and that is exactly the nair tifr that the trump -- the

narrative that the trump campaign wants to push because they want to make sure americans are disheartened and they might not like trump but hillary is just as bad. when you compare her poor e-mail practices which is legitimate, they were poor e-mail practices and she's apologized to someone who has a white nationalist and has run a campaign based on white racial grievance and offended every group he could possibly can and willfullyig incorporated br this country and the world and there is no equivalence and that is the way the world is set up to put on one democratic and republican strategistic and have them have a fight and say great conversation and let's do it again tomorrow. >> and we've done that as well here. and it is one of the things that is surprising to me is that in this post-cosby allegations that the roger ailes story, who has multiple allegations against him, from women who worked for him, including one, gretchen

carlson, who made recordings of some of the things that he said to her in terms of sexual harassment, why do you suppose that is not a big story when you had yesterday the big new york times headline is where is hillary clinton? ask the ultra rich? she is fundraising wirich peopl and staying in a rich person's house and that means you have to fund raise from rich people. >> there are so many reasons for this. i can't believe the ailes story isn't bigger but he has so many horrible people working with him. steve bannon and david bossy, the originator of the citizens united organization who is part of dirty tricks going back 30 years. i think the media is just -- i don't understand it. there is a sense that he's got so many things wrong with him, trump, they don't know where to start. but i think it is a kind of malpractice, especially as you did so well looking at e-mail stories and looking at the stories about president clinton

using tax dollars that he's entitle to do great work around the world or the story about how when we went to rescue hostages from north korea, one of his aides wanted a passport and he didn't get it from the state department but he asked. it used to be that you have to do something for someone for there to be a scandal. and now you merely have to ask for it and get denied and then you have a clinton scandal. so it is just -- it is so many things. and i think that people are going to look back, god forbid trump is elected, which i don't believe he will be, there will be a lot of people in the media who have will a dark night of the soul because they have paid so much attention to tiny clinton scandals and so little attention to ginormous trump scandals. >> and matt, i turn to you last because i don't know if you have a contrary opinion but it doesn't seem there has to be a thing that happened, only be to the media, and optics means what we think of it and what we say

something looks like but she only needs to have something that is optically negative and on trump, just on the story of hillth fundraising with the ultra rich, donald trump lives in trump tower and we accept his characterization but is hillary -- i'm not seeing anything that talks about his wealth -- >> are you talking about -- >> i've heard it. >> we've heard it. but let's take a step back. i'll say the same thing to you that i say to my conservative friends when they talk about the liberal media agenda to elect hillary clinton or whatever it is and when you ascribe a sing lal intelligence to the media and it is like the jungle grows grass, no it is a diverse eco-system and there is people within a single institution like "the new york times" who are doing a lot of things at once. so i think it is a mistake to say the media knows about this. what do we know about media about the general sense and their political leanings, we

know an overwhelming majority of people who work for newspapers lean democratic and if they reveal who they voted for which very few institutions do, some magazines and slate does, we know they vote for hillary clinton. that's back drop. part of media bias and this is part of the problems with covering trump, there is a buy as toward the status quo. so when you have someone upsetting the status quo, people don't know how to react. >> i don't know if there is a buy buy -- the bias against the status quo. i agree -- i think it is a buy as between change and conflict. i agree that most people who work in the business would be left but hillary clinton has not changed. she is the status quo. she's been around for 30 years. trump is interesting and exciting for us as people who cover him because he is change. >> yes, but i also think there is a bias for competent against incompetence. that is where the state of the race is.

hillary clinton's e-mail situation is a problem. i know we disagree on that, joy. but any other republican running against her, it would be lights out and game over and she would be dead in the water. because the alternative and the choice is donald trump who i think over and over again -- look at just what happened on his trip from mexico. he had two 360s on immigration in a span of 48 hours and think it means hillary clinton will be elected and that means taco trucks on every morner. >> on every corner. and let's talk about that. because i was talking with a friend last night who said that well there is something about the use of the e-mail that strikes as obfuscation that she is trying to avoid things and i agree and i think she had the private server because she didn't want media people rooting around in mer e-mail and that is the reality that colin powell sh did. >> but in fairness, that is conjecture. >> and she lied about it. >> that is not true. being mistaken about something is very different from willfully

lying about something. she had certain things come out. >> that there were no classified e-mails on the server. >> she said that but she was obviously mistaken in they were improperly classified, you have no evidence that she knew she had classified information -- >> but she shared all of the e-mails. >> she was mistaken about -- >> there was no evidence that she knew. >> the director said -- there were a few things she was mistaken about with you we have to be careful with that language. >> and the fbi director said she was being completely truthful. >> and we'll go back to joan on this. the fbi director did state they had absolutely no evidence that she or her aides concealed e-mails and that is the only thing that we know that he said. we don't know what he thinks about her practices. but joan, this makes the point that the fact that we are having the back and forth and even between us we can't agree on how egregious the scandal is or the facts of it and it is such a

mess doesn't the mess come down to her deficit, no matter what the actual facts are. >> it does. but maybe it shouldn't. as long as we take this optics line and we talk about perception and another word i would like to retire next cycle, joy, is narrative, as long as we talk about how this feeds the narrative and the new york times had a story this week about anthony wiener and how it cast a shadow over the clinton campaign -- excuse me, because it might think about her own marital difficulties, well if it didn't, you guys just did. there is this narrative and the optics and there is a problem and the problem existed. we discussed it to death. she did nothing that the fbi found wrong. and as long as we keep saying but there is something there, it is just -- she can't win. >> well, i think that if hillary clinton becomes the next president, i think we're in for four very long years. it is a gate a month. because it is the relationship with the media.

so look forward to that, america. thank you very much. and coming up in the next hour, is the clinton campaign getting overconfident. we talk to the former dnc chair howard dean. but up next, 50 years ago a series was born helping us to boldly go where no one has gone before. guys, i would do a star trek con and i did. and you don't want to miss what i found there. tennis legend serena williams moves forward, and with the chase mobile® app we're on the same path, offering innovative, and convenient ways to bank. easy-to- use chase technology, for whatever you are trying to master. it'...when that laxour loves your body back. only miralax hydrates, eases, and softens to unblock naturally. so you have peace of mind from start to finish. love your laxative. miralax.

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coming up next, "am joy" celebrates the 50th anniversary of star trek at mission new york with some galactic makeovers to boot. and they let us try out the far out star trek collection for the costumes and i got made up like my fleet star and ground breaking lieutenant and my producer looked fabulous as the dedicated and caring koups lcou deanna troy and when we come back we have all of the goodness and the trouble you could live

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fmale teacher: and then name thelargest planet?t? male teacher: someone we haven't heard from. female teacher:anyone else? through internet essentials, comcast is on track to connect 3 million people in need to low cost, high speed internet at home, helping to make sure that every hand in the classroom goes up. male teacher: okay, veronica. amphibian. male teacher: excellent. welcome to a brighter future. welcome to it all. comcast.

this week for our segment, which we like to call oh, my god, politics is so terrible this year, please talk about something else for five minutes, i go to the final all right, fellow geeks, we are here at "star trek: mission new york." we're going to talk to people. we're going to walk around dressed as fabulous characters. i'm aurora, in case you couldn't tell. and we're going to have a great time, all right? come on, let's go. ♪ ♪ >> all right, we are here talking to adam nimoy, the son of the great, legendary leonard nimoy. in your view, what was the importance of "star trek"? >> it's a positive view of the future that we're going to have a future, that the human race will still be around, and that we'll all be working together for the common good.

>> why do you suppose that spoke and captain kirk are such good friends? >> opposites attract. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> uh-oh, that's not a good sign. >> that's not good. think i might be part klingon? who's your favorite "star trek" character? >> kirk. >> can you say "i'm the captain of the chip"? >> i'm the captain of the ship. >> captain of the ship. >> captain. >> perfect. >> beam, beam, beam, beam. beaming you up, scottie. it turns out i'm into the the only one here at the "star trek con." there are three of us and they are fabulous. what caused you to come today dressed this way? >> i grew up sitting on the living room floor watching series, the original series watching her and wanting to be her. like, who wouldn't sit and watch and want to be her? >> is there anything better/geekier than combining "star trek" and "sherlock holmes"? >> probably not, but here we are. >> fazers on stun, everybody.

how long did it take you to get yourself together, because you look fabulous today? >> really like ten minutes. >> you woke up like this. >> yeah, pretty much. >> i work in the field of exoplanets, stars and the sun. i know nobody who works in my field that doesn't think there's life out there. >> we're not alone? >> i mean, why would we study this if we didn't think there was life out there? >> listen to me, i'm the captain of the ship, i'm the captain of the ship. what's your favorite thing about "star trek"? >> probably the hopefulness, the peace, that something hopeful to look forward to, that the future might be better than the world we live in today. >> i have a question for you, joy. >> yes. >> what was it like to sit in the chair? >> i felt immense power. is your baby wearing a tribble? >> she's the tribble. >> is the new ahora better than everyone else? >> yeah, i think she might be running the ship. >> that's the right answer, because you're so logical. >> absolutely. >> live long and prosper, mr. spoke. >> live long and prosper.

[ laughter ] >> special thank you to my wonderful producers and crew, ariel shapiro, lorna ruiz, expa zander price and rob alexander. joining me to talk "star trek" goodness, let me see if you're a klingon. >> oh, no, no -- >> if they like you, you're not. is it cooing? i think one of them is out of sorts. maybe we could put them a sedative, put them to bed. down, klingons! what "star trek" do you like? >> i like the original series best. my father and i growing up, we used to watch the old reruns on channel 43 back in cleveland. and what i saw there was a future with me in it. >> yeah. >> you know, there was a future with uhura, but not just her, but other people of color, all shapes, sizes, religions, creeds, all working towards a common goal in the future. >> yeah, george tackay was there. you had just this incredible panoply, not only of different races, but different species

from all these intergalactic planets all working together in sort of commune toward peace and everything. it was a great series, but do you think it was groundbreaking because of the interracial aspect of it or because it wasn't even remarked on? >> it wasn't just interracial parts of it. you had geopolitical stuff. you had checov. having a russian character in the '60s working with americans i'm sure was not a small thing. so, i think it really showed how, you know, it gave a vision of the future, of people who are working towards a common goal and realizing that it's bigger than just us. >> yeah. >> it's bigger than this earth. it's bigger than this universe. >> absolutely. and obviously, there were future "star trek" universes. lorna's favorite is "next generation." >> we'll allow that. >> yes. so, there were all these different universes of "star trek." why do you think it's been so enduring? there are movies to this day. >> because the story offers so many possibilities. when you have a story, an idea that offers the entire universe as its canvas, frankly, i think

that you know, it could go on forever. and i think what you have there is solid characters based in, you know, a reality that we can all relate to. >> yeah. >> even though it is, in fact, several centuries -- >> several centuriecenturies, r. and do you think about the technology? the philippa. we talk about the communicators -- >> i would laugh as a kid seeing the antiquated computers and i was thinking, we don't have anything better than this in the 23rd century? certainly when the movies came out when i was younger and the movies coming out now i think reflect a more advanced, hopeful, even sometimes realistic technological future. >> and one of the things that's interesting is the way that science, actual science tried to reflect some of the technology that they saw in shows like "star trek" and bring them to life. we met a guy at that con, at that star trek mission new york that was developing something that was sort of like the medical devices that you had in the original "star trek," that could diagnose people and people actually trying to take advantage of the technology. >> i think what goes unnoticed i think is how much "star trek" has inspired people to real

scientific pursuits, inspired people to be astronauts, to be doctors and to be technicians, to be engineers. and you know, not just to say, okay, well, maybe one day i'll work on a starship. >> yeah. >> but hey, you know, i'm working to advance this idea of the future. >> are you saying they're trying to boldly go where no man has gone before? >> where no one has gone before. >> that is very true. and we did meet someone from nasa who was actually at the star trek con talking about these sort of vast pursuits, saying that most people in the field believe there is more out there, that we're not alone in the universe. >> yeah, the idea that we are the only intelligent life in the universe seems to me pretty laughable. in fact, there is a recent report of a potential signal that we've received from potentially another intelligent race. so, i think that, you know, the search for life is a valid one and it could potentially be the most impactful thing we ever find. >> and "staff trek" gave us william shatner, leonard nimoy. >> michelle nichols. >> what an incredible cast, so

ground-breaking. they were incredible. the costumes, the makeup, everything they put together to make that series amazing, i love it. thank you very much. that is our show for today. "am joy" will be back and geeking out further next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. first, we'll kick off the real campaign series tomorrow with a special episode. up next, alex witt talks to former dnc chair howard dean about the latest polls and donald trump's outreach to black voters. more news at the top of the hour. mom, i have to tell you something. dad, one second i was drivingnd then the next... they just didn't stop and then... i'm really sorry. i wrecked the subaru. i wrecked it. you're ok. that's all that matters. (vo) a lifetime commitment to getting them home safely. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. it'...when that laxour loves your body back.

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good day, everyone! i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west, and here's what's happening. the stretch run in the race for the white house. new questions today on hillary clinton's campaign strategy and donald trump's outreach to black voters. >> if everybody apologized for all the things they said in politics, all we'd be doing on television shows is apologizing. >>