totally embarrass himself. i think the bar has got to be a lot higher. >> senator chris murphy, always a pleasure. thank you for joining us. >> thanks, chris. that does it for this hour live from the "intrepid" museum. i'll be back at the anchor desk tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. for "all in." "mtp daily" starts right now. >> if it's wednesday, it's the first major general election showdown of the year. the commander in chief forum taking place right here. donald trump, hillary clinton, tonight. this election more than any since 2004 is actually a referendum on the security of our nation. >> no one will work harder for our troops, our veterans and our military families. >> i will never let you down. >> we'll dig into the real policy ideas through all the promises and the punches. >> she's totally unfit to be our commander in chief. >> his whole campaign has been

one long insult to all those who have worn the uniform. >> this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now. good evening and what a location. i'm chuck todd live at the intrepid, sea, air and space museum in new york city. welcome to "mtp daily." counting you down to the start of the first ever commander in chief presidential forum tonight. nbc news along with the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america will host hillary clinton and donald trump back-to-back in a live forum focusing exclusively on issues that the next president will have to confront as commander in chief. and folks, national security is playing a much bigger role in this election and perhaps should play a bigger one. the next president is inheriting a chaotic world with instability

on every continent. there's global uncertainty. isis. couple that with trump's inexperience in government and military affairs and clinton's e-mail issues and questions about her national security leadership at state department. and all of this has brought us to this moment. this could be an election where security issues trump pocketbook issues. n that's what tonight is all about. both candidates have been blitzing the trail on these issues ahead of tonight's forum. trump vowed to boost defense spending by tens of billions of dollars. he wants more troops, more ships, more submarines, more everything. trump's speech was, at times, a glaring departure from his past statements on the campaign trail where trump has touted a secret fool-proof plan to defeat isis. he's been criticized for taking unrealistic approaches to some international relation issues. and argued for deep across-the-board spending cuts.

today it was a different trump. here he is. >> immediately after taking office, i will ask my generals to present to me a plan within 30 days to defeat and destroy isis. in a trump administration, our actions in the middle east will be tempered by realism. as soon as i take office, i will ask congress to fully eliminate the defense sequester and will submit a new budget to rebuild our military. it is so depleted. we will rebuild our military. >> trump also looked to turn the tables on clinton's criticism which had been portraying him as erratic and dangerous. >> sometimes it seemed like there wasn't a country in the middle east that hillary clinton didn't want to invade, intervene in or topple. she's trigger happy and very unstable, whether we like it or not, that's what's going on. >> classic maneuver there.

hit your opponent for the same issue you're being hit with. the clinton campaign is hitting the air waves with ads that's slam trump on veteran issues. on the trail portraying trump as emotionally volatile and unable to handle the job of being commander in chief. joined by clinton campaign press secretary brian fallon. welcome, sir. >> hi, chuck. >> the basic premise of donald trump's hit on hillary clinton today could also be in a broader way. we've been too involved in the middle east. he is essentially saying i'm going to get us less involved. hillary clinton is more of an interventionist. the country wants to be less involved. hillary clinton's history is to be more involved. what do you say to that? >> i think you'll hear from hillary clinton tonight her vision of the use of force and when it's appropriate. her view is it has to be a last resort. when it's necessary, she's going to make the commitment. we have a defined achievable objective n provide the

resources to our military to get the job done. donald trump has been all over the map. earlier in this campaign he had a secret plan to defeat isis. now he's going to need 30 days and defer to those generals who previously he said he was smarter than. this is somebody in the last two weeks seesaw him fly down to mexico, meet with the president of mexico and then based on a tweet completely change the focus of his speech that night in arizona in the united states. he is not someone who can practice the art of diplomacy. he's a loose cannon. you've seen 50 different republican national security officials come out and say they don't trust him to be commander in chief. today mack thornbury and bob corker, two republican members say they can't trust him. >> you've been obliterating trump in rhetoric and in tone when it comes to national security. and no matter how hot the rhetoric has been, this is what voters said. trump leads clinton among military voters by 19 points.

this comes from householes where a member of the household is active member of the military or former member of the military. why, if you guys have been -- and your advertising has been about this, why haven't military families responded in kind? >> i think the ratio there is similar to the split you say in 2012 barack obama experienced when runs against mitt romney. >> i understand that. but you're unloading on trump. you spent an entire summer eviscerating him as unfit to be commander in chief and he's going to start all these wars. i understand. you're right about the demographic trend lines but that means your messaging is not breaking through. >> i think he's inheriting the typical advantage that a republican usually enters the general election with when it comes to military and veteran voters. in the post-labor day period you'll see we continue to make that case. across the board, voters are just starting to tune in. i think what people will hear when it comes to donald trump's plans on national security and how he wants to use the military will be very troubling to them.

that's why just this past week we put up an ad on television in key battleground states we're only using donald trump's words about things he's said about veterans. attacking a gold star family. belittling john mccain's service and record as a p.o.w. >> you've been running these ads for weeks. >> this one is just up this week. >> this is a new one, but are you concerned it's not breaking through? >> in the last two months when people are really tuning in, you'll see republicans and former members of the bush administration and other previous republican administrations, trusted voices on national security and the military coming out and saying you can't trust donald trump. just in the last couple of days, both campaigns put out these lists of military leaders that have endorsed both sides. we're proud of the 90-plus different generals and admirals stl that have come out and endorsed donald trump. you've seen a 400-person drop-off on the list of people

supporting trump that supported mitt romney. >> the campaign does a lot to give you a reason not to vote for trump, but the clinton campaign does not do enough to give you a reason to vote for clinton. what do you say to that criticism? >> i don't think it's true. today you'll see her lean in on issues like the suicide epidemic among returning veterans. her plans to ensure that we're not seeing any cuts to the post-9/11 gi bill. she's got plans. she's the only person in this race that's put out a detailed plan for ow we'd defeat isis. donald trump keeps saying he has one but can't articulate what it is. usually what makes it on the evening news is the criticisms of donald trump. she's been very clear what she wants to do as president. you'll hear it tonight. >> more media criticism from brian fallon. had to get it in there. that's okay. i'm used to it from both sides. as trump readies for tonight's forum, he's facing doubts from some republicans. senator bob corker was actually

asked several times on "morning joe" this morning if he had confidence in trump's ability to be commander in chief. was not a question he appeared eager to answer. here's just a bit of that exchange. >> i have to be respectful, but i am sorry. i just asked if you had confidence in donald trump as commander in chief as it pertains to foreign policy. that's pretty much a yes/no question. >> yeah, and i think that -- i think the candidate is certainly deepening in what he's -- donald trump is deepening in what he's throwing out. he's shaking up the foreign policy establishment and we'll have a clearer sense as he moves ahead. >> well, i'm joined now here in the evening, early afternoon, late afternoon by republican senator bob corker of tennessee. senator, as you know, your clip has been shared, been played around. you're here live one more time.

do you want to re-answer -- would you like to re-answer that question? what is the level of confidence you have in trump's ability to be commander in chief? >> well, i'll just state again. i see the candidate. i see donald trump evolving in his knowledge. i see more and more people who are spending time with him personally, getting behind him in that regard. i've had no conversations with the campaign in some time about foreign policy. i read his speech today. i wasn't able to see it, but i thought it was very good. and so i think what you are saying is, you know, a person who hasn't been involved in these issues. i've been in the senate now for 9 1/2 years. i have advantages over understanding the complexities of these issues. and what i see happening is someone honing their effort. there will be debates coming up. and i'll restate again. a campaign that's sharpening its focus on the right things. unfortunately as you mentioned

coming into this, national security is in focus. and while i like to see that as part of a presidential campaign because it's so important, it's also being in focus because we have such a chaotic world right now which is very unfortunate for us. >> it's interesting that you said after you read donald trump's speech you like what you saw. doesn't actually surprise me because in many ways, it actually seemed like a departure from his rhetoric during the primary campaign on national security and his potential philosophy in the middle east. let me play you two clips about what he used to say about libya and syria and get you to respond on the other side. >> gadhafi in libya is killing thousands of people. nobody knows how bad it is, and we're sitting around. soldiers all over the middle east and we're not bringing them in to stop this horrible carnage. there's something missing from our president. had he crossed a line and really gone in with force and done

something to -- if he had gone in with tremendous force, you wouldn't have millions of people displaced all over the world. >> so, senator, it's a pretty big contradiction. the libya comment was from 2011 and the syria comment was in 2015 from a primary debate. his speech today, totally contradicted that. which donald trump are you comfortable with? >> well, again, i think candidates, especially those who haven't spent a lot of time in this arena make assumptions and statements sometimes that as they evolve and understand more fully make different -- look. i like the comments that were made today. i could quibble some with the numbers, if you will. i do appreciate the fact that in building the military, he's advocating that we offset.

that's something that neither republicans nor democrats have done. he understands our fiscal situation is the greatest threat to our nation. but, look, i am here not to referee. i want to see us have a good foreign policy. i appreciate the fact that this forum is taking place tonight. that's a major contribution to america for both of these candidates to be able to talk about their views and for that to be stressed. and i'm seeing a campaign evolve where finally, chuck, if you think about it, this has been a very personality based campaign. >> totally agree. >> finally moving into the things that matter. i thank you n others who are pushing us to that point. >> let me leave you with one final question. many people are going to watch these comments and just say, boy, senator corker doesn't seem fully there yet when it comes to donald trump being commander in chief. i don't want to put thoughts in your mind. is that a fair way to interpret

this? >> well, look, i appreciate the way the campaign is evolving. i appreciate the fact that they are now delving with the nuance of foreign policy. i appreciate the fact that i think a very rational, even though i might quibble with some of the issues, a very rational speech was laid out today as to the future of our country. and i think again we saw a primary that was nothing but personality. we see now substance moving in. i'm interested also in what secretary clinton has to say about these issues. i care about us having a great foreign policy, and i'm thankful that both of the candidates are now moving into more substantive issues as it relates to that. i'm not here to referee who is doing best, but i do appreciate the evolution that's taking place. >> are you planning on sitting on the sidelines for this election itself? >> no, no, no. >> you're in it with trump?

>> i've got a job right now as chairman of the foreign relations committee. and i've got issues to deal with. and i want to carry those out appropriately, but i do appreciate the effort that is under way in the trump campaign to become more sophisticated in this area. and i think today's speech certainly was evidence that's taking place. >> bob corker, republican from tennessee, chairman of the senate foreign relations. always a pleasure, sir. let me bring in tonight's panel of -- and tonight they truly are intrepid reporters. mark murray, andrea mitchell. and kamisha for the hometown newspaper called "the new york times." andrea, you heard the senate foreign relations chairman, he is just not going to get enthusiastic about trump, but he's not going to -- >> welcome to new york. >> i tell you, it's live, baby.

but he's also not going to throw him overboard either. he really is trying to walk a tight rope. >> he's walking a tightrope, not throwing him off the "intrepid," not throwing him overboard. this is a foreign relations chairman who was also worried about the budget. there is word that donald trump hasn't talked about which is called pay go. and if you add it up, everything that he said in this -- the bullet points, he wants more surface ships. he wants more subs. he wants more marine battalions. he wants a bigger army. none of that is possible under the sequester. and he has not explained how he'd pay for any of it or what he'd take from domestic spending. >> that speech today, what he was outlining, defense lobbyists in washington were probably drooling when they heard that. >> but also, chuck, it was very standard republican fare. and why someone like bob corker probably really enjoyed it. but i think tonight is going to be fascinate chicago matt lauer

will ask them a whole host of questions on what trump said in the past and how to reconcile that. some specific questions when it comes to policy. one other thing that struck me about what bob corker ended up saying was i got my job to do. the senate foreign relations committee. every democrat over the next two months will see their job to help elect hillary clinton. bob corker says i have to do my job on capitol hill. >> chris murphy is all in with clinton and didn't sound like that. >> didn't sound like that. a lot had to do with the fact donald trump doesn't have experience. the fact you can -- he might be the first president that's not made big national security decisions and doesn't have a grasp of at least according to the voters i've been talking to, he doesn't have a good grasp of international relations and international policy and what's going on in the world in general. one of the reasons why national security and why he's polling still so well is because people also have seen what hillary clinton has already done.

she's -- a lot of people talk about they feel she's a war hawk. even though they've seen hillary clinton's work, people don't trust her work and people don't like her work. >> very quickly, you have a big part of the country that's not liked our foreign policy through two presidencies. and another -- and same people going, i have no idea what that's guy is going to do. what are you making me choose from? they don't like either path. >> and one republican said to me last night, this is a choice between berlusconi and nixon. i guess i'll have to vote for nixon. a republican saying that because they think that -- >> and which one is nixon? >> hillary clinton is nixon. but think about that. get your head around that. >> i have heard the analogy myself. you guys are sticking around. i am going to go to break. don't jump overboard when you hear the sound. coming up ahead of the commander in chief forum, how do the candidates differ on some of these national security plans. we'll break down the plans in their own words. more from the "intrepid" sea,

air and space museum after this. ♪ ♪ take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive. the nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. now get 0% apr for 72 months, plus $500 bonus cash. it's a very specific moment, the launch window. we have to be very precise. if we're not ready when the planets are perfectly aligned, that's it. we need really tight temperature controls. engineering, aerodynamics- a split second too long could mean scrapping it all and starting over. propulsion, structural analysis- maple bourbon caramel. that's what we're working on right now. from design through production, siemens technology helps manufacturers meet critical deadlines.

i think this'll be our biggest flavor yet. when you only have one shot, you need a whole lot of ingenuity.

♪ it's tails. >> it's with that, flip of the coin, that is how the order of tonight's historic commander in chief forum at the "intrepid" sea, air and space museum was decided. trump won the toss and chose to defer, to appear after clinton. they appear separately for 30 minutes answering questions on military affairs and veterans questions. the questions from matt lauer and from the audience of veterans. it's all happening in just about 2 1/2 hours. one deck below where we are. i can tell you this. both campaigns wanted to go second, which is why the winner of the toss got to decide to pick that second slot.

we'll be right back. live from the "intrepid" museum here in new york city.

welcome back to the "intrepid" sea, air and space museum site of the commander in chief forum. donald trump and hillary clinton will sit down back-to-back on the same stage for the first time in this general election. in this forum, it's focused specifically to national security issues and talking about veterans issues as well. we'll help voters answer the question simply who is better qualified to be america's next commander in chief. over the past year, i've sat down again and again with both candidates on "meet the press" and asked them both many questions on the important national security questions we'll be dealing with tonight. here's some excerpts. >> let's go foreign affairs. you want to knock the hell out of isis. how? >> i want to take away their wealth. for years i've been saying, don't go into iraq. they went into iraq and destabilized. >> do you think gadhafi, saddam

were -- do you think the middle east would be safer? >> it's not even a contest. iraq is a disaster. >> it would be better if saddam was in charge? >> isis came out of iraq. >> the muslim ban. i think you've pulled back. >> you could say it's an expansion. i'm looking at extreme vetting. extreme vetting. we have to have tough standards. >> do you consider iran a national security threat to the united states? >> well, certainly we have lowered that threat because of the nuclear agreement. but they continue to destabilize governments in the middle east. they continue to support proxies and terrorist groups like hezbollah. they continue to threaten israel. there are a lot of concerns. >> do you believe if it wasn't

for the iraq war we wouldn't have isis today? >> well, i think that's a hard conclusion to draw because, remember, we had al qaeda before we had isis. al qaeda attacked us in new york. al qaeda attacked our embassies in africa. al qaeda -- >> the argument is the instability in iraq is what has created this, and that if saddam hussein were still there, we wouldn't have isis. >> i think that's a lot of jumps in logic that, to me, doesn't really add up. the iraq war, there's no doubt, contributed to instability. i'm not going to in any way deny that. but you cannot draw a direct line. >> joining me now, retired u.s. army colonel jack jacobs and barry mccaffrey. both are msnbc military analysts and max booth, for national security studies and a republican who said that trump winning this election would be a threat to national security. gentlemen, welcome to all of

you. general and colonel, i want to start with you two here. i want to start specifically with donald trump. i want to put up a little on trump's proposed military expansions. right now the current number active army, about 475,000. he wants to put it close to 550,000. you see it up here. marine battalions, he wants to basically increase by 50%. surface ships and subs, more of those. more air force fighter aircraft. general, is our military issues or defense spending issues one of more stuff or modernization? >> well, clearly at this point in the campaign, these are just numbers. congress is the one to appropriate money for the armed forces. these wish list and unconstrained want there's still 2.2 million men and women. the problem is you suggest, what are the policies going forward?

dealing with russian threat to western europe, potential for pakistani, indian nuclear confrontation. that's what we've got to listen for tonight. it's not sound bites but character and judgment. >> what i thought was missing in his -- just the talk of -- has less to do about individual people and more because, well, they can do more with less. >> well, we can, but we have to be very careful that we only have overreliance on equipment. where you get excited about technology and we decide that there's -- we can trade people off for technology, in actual fact what we need is both. at the end of the day, seizing the objective is only part of the exercise. not enough to kill the bad guys. if there want there to be stability where you're fighting you have to have enough people to stand on the objective and

hold it. and holing the objective is what it's all about. we don't quite know what we want to do strategically. until we do that, none of these numbers make any sense at all. >> max, both general mccaffrey and jacobs bring up a good point. without knowing what our national security posture is you can't come upwi with a defense budget. >> i wouldn't read too much into this speech. he's shown he knows next to nothing about national security. he can read a speech okay but doesn't know what the nuclear triad is and lies about his own position. now he is saying that he is in favor of repealing sequestation whereas up until recently, he was saying he wanted to go beyond sequestration n cut even more. now he's saying he's always been opposed to the iraq war and excoriating hillary clinton for.

you can't trust a word that comes out of his mouth including what he says today. >> is there anything -- one or two magic things you're looking for tonight that will make you more comfortable with clinton or trump? >> i want to hear the president of the united states is going to be a thoughtful, experienced, cautious individual with a pretty good grasp of u.s. national security and foreign policy. i'm not in the business of endorsing any candidate. i think mr. trump has been outlandish in many of his public statements. urging nuclear proliferation, praising saddam hussein, praising putin, calling for the torture of detainees in our custody. these are not american values that he's been espousing. >> colonel, let me go from the hillary clinton perspective. the thing that he's hitting her on has to do with the fact she's been involved with all of this mess. our middle east policy, nobody

has been happy with for 20 years. probably go back 40 years if you wanted to go back. he's trying to basically saddle her with both bush and obama middle east package. what does she do to get out of that? >> she has to be thoughtful and not rise to the bait. trump is really good at ad hominem argument. what she needs to do is pay attention to the facts. not rise to the bait and talk about things like starting at the end and worki ining backwar. so she can achieve national objectives and not get into an argument. she's going to be lots better off. also she'll be lots better off with veterans as well. >> one of the thornier topics that could come up has to do with putin, russia, national security. max, you wrote an interesting column today and commentary essentially saying, you were making the point if the united

states, if the obama administration in this case, doesn't respond in some way to punish russia for getting involved in our elections, if we have enough evidence to prove it, that's if we don't do anything, that that is a signal to russia that, you know what? you've changed the rules. fine. we now have new rules when it comes to espionage. >> no, this is a very dangerous moment because i think seen there's certainly evidence we've seen an unprecedented attempt by the russian intelligence services and vladimir putin to influence the outcome of our election. the leak of the dnc e-mails which came from russian intelligence sources through wikileaks and caused a feuror o the eve of the democratic national convention. now there may be attempts to infiltrate election systems as the vote is counted. and to do other things to try to elect donald trump who is the most pro-russian, pro-putin candidate the kremlin could ever imagine running for the presidency of the united states. and i think so far there has

been largely silence from president obama on this score. even though this is -- >> you think he fears the politics of it? >> i think he fears the politics of it, but i think he's also this professorial guy who is always deliberating and takes a long time to act. and as he deliberates, putin acts, and putin is making facts on the ground. you need a brush back push to putin to make it clear he's going to pay a severe and steep price if he tries to manipulate the outcome of the election to elect his admired donald trump. >> do you agree with max? >> russia is actually a third rate economic power. minus the price of oil, these people are not much of a threat except to their neighbors and the people they sponsor. so we need to be cautious about confronting the russians. >> and russia hasn't changed in 1,000 years with this guy and the guy before. it's irrelevant, really.

>> i could go on. this would have been an interesting little russian debate. they haven't changed in 1,000 years. fair enough. i'll ask robert mcdonald what he and our nation's veterans are hoping to hear from the candidates tonight. more "mtp daily" live from the "intrepid" after thus. never sto? is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifete of work that blazes the path to your passions? your personal success takes a financial rtner who values it as much asou do. learn more at tiaa.org soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade. get back to great. all computers on sale like this dellaptop.

office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. they (engine revs) things about rain. like how hard it's gonna fall. (engine revs) the things it does to your parade. we've got a saying about rain, too: when it rains... it roars. the all-wheel-drive charger. domestic. not domesticated. ...stop clicking around...travel sites to find a better price... the lowest prices on our hotels are always at hilton.com. so pay less and get more only at hilton.com. when you have type 2 diabetes, like me, hi, i'm dominique wiins. there's a moment of truth. and with victoza®, a better moment of proof.

victoza® lowers my a1c and blood sugar better than the leading branded pill, which didn't get me to my goal. victoza® works with your body to lower blood sugar in three ways-- in the stomach, the liver and the pancreas. and while it isn't for weight loss, victoza® m help you lose some weight. non-insulin victoza® comes in a pen and is taken once a day. (announcer) victoza® is not recommended as the first medication to treat diabetes and is not for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not take victoza® if you have personal or family history ofedlary thyroidancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, if you are allergic to victoza® or any oits ingredients. stop taking victa® and call your doctor right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck or if you develop any allergic symptoms including itching, rash, or difficulty breathing. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis. so, stop taking victoza® and call your doctor right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area. tell your doctor your medical history.

taking victoza® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. the most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrheaand miting. side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. now's the time for a better moment of proof. ask your doctor about victoza®. want to take a moment to

remember a celebrate ed journalt and war hero, robert timberg. he was seriously injured by a land mine in vietnam in 1967. he witness on ent on to write " nightingale" song. he weaved together the lives of john mccain, jim webb and oliver north among a couple of others. in a statement, john mccain said, he was an inspiring guy, which i don't think he ever realized or at least admit to. but he was. i'll miss him. jim webb also had fond memories of spending time with him. longtime baltimore sun reporter. a lot of people are going to be missing bob timberg tonight and in the future. bob timberg was 76. be the you who doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara®

just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. stelara® may lower your ability to fight iections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. befo treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before stainstelara® tell your doctor if you think u have an infection or have mptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aes or cough. always tell your doctor if you have any signs of infection, have h cancer, if you develop any new skin growths or if anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. most people using stelara® saw 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. be the you who talks to your dermatologist about stelara®. it's scary when the lights go out. people get anxious and my office gets flooded with calls. so many things can go wrong. it's my worst nightmare.

evy second that power is out, my city's at risk. siens digital grid manages and reroutes power, so service can be restored within seconds. priority number one is keeping those lights on. it takes ingenuity to defeat the monsters that live in the dark. ♪ take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive. the nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. now get 0% apr for 72 months, plus $500 bonus cash. [ clock titime. ] you only have so much. that's why we want to make sure you won't have to wait on hold.

and you won't have to guess when we'll turn up. because after all we should fit into your life. not the other way around. welcome back to "mtp daily" from the "intrep"intrepid" muse.

more has to be done for america's veterans, and the other party isn't getting it done. this year in the presidential campaign trail, it's been no different. two years oago, president obama appointed a new secretary of v.a. to clear up a lot of the bureaucratic problems. it's something that is still hot on the campaign trail but one that seems to be lessening as an actual issue at the v.a. itself. v.a. secretary bob mcdonald joins me now. so when you hear, i'm just curious what your reaction is when you hear -- because there are a lot of politicians who are running for office, democrats and republicans, who talk about how horrible the v.a. is and they're going to make it so that veterans get better care than ever. and i know it's hyperbole and election year stuff. the state of the v.a., how much better is it today than it was two years ago, in your estimation? and do you think that veterans would actually agree with you? >> as you know, chuck, we're in

the midst of the largest transformation in our history. we call it my v.a., making the v.a. much more veteran centric. we've had 4 million more completed health care appointments this year versus last year for veterans. added 4 million square feet of new clinic space. hired over 1,200 new doctors and nurses and expanded clinic hours. we've driven down the disability claim backlog which peaked at 611,000. we've driven that down by 90%. and over since about 2010, we've driven down veteran homelessness by about 50%. 47% to be exact. so we're making progress. are we where we want to be? not exactly. what do veterans want to hear tonight and i've attended all the veteran service organization conventions. today i met with the new national commander of disabled american veterans. they want to hear recognition that the v.a. is improving and they want that improvement to continue.

>> how is it that i know today the congress had a big hearing and you were upset you weren't invited. why do you think your presence was necessary? because congress, you have said, is part of the backlog problem in your estimation. >> well, the hearing was about the commission on care. this is something that congress asked for in 2014. they took over $60 million out of the v.a. budget to pay consultants to study what needed to be done. this hearing was about the way forward. certainly i think the secretary of the department should have been present because we've done an analysis and we found that since we worked with the commission, 15 of the 18 recommendations from the commission we agree with. 12 of which we're making progress on and are almost completed. so we felt we should have been there. >> let me ask you. you were critical of the idea of privatizing the v.a. you said that donald trump's plan is a version of privatization. trump would say his plan would allow veterans to see a private

doctor, if the v.a. wait time is -- hits a certain level, say seven days. what's wrong with an idea like that? >> well, there's a complex issue. as you know already, we have the ability of veterans to see a doctor in a private sector either recommended by v.a. or if they are beyond the 40-mile limit or they are beyond a 30-day wait period. privatization is not only bad for veterans, it's bad for the american public. the v.a. has contributed to advances in american medicine that would no longer be available. things like take an aspirin a day for heart disease. first implantable pacemaker. first liver transplant. first electronic medical record and i could go on. also as you know, the v.a. is 70% of the doctors in the country. >> i understand, but why does that have to go away if you allow some veterans to use their benefits with a private doctor. why can't both exist? why can't you have a cutting

edge big v.a. hospitals and, you know, certain areas that do this cutting edge research and give the flexibility to veterans if they want to have some private care? why can't both visit? >> what we have today is an integrated network of both federal government and other privates -- other providers including the v.a. as well as private sector. on any given day, 20%, 22% of our appointments are in the private sector. the question is how do you maintain that kind of a network if you allow willy nilly unfettered access to different sources. i wouldn't necessarily know where to invest. and i think what our veteran service organizations and veterans worry about is if you allow kind of a chaotic access to the private sector, then the v.a. will atrophy. >> you went from a corporate

boardroom ceo to government. that transition, can you really run government like a business, or is it not as -- or is that too simplistic of a way to look at it? >> i think you can run government like a business. this transformation plan that we've put together comes from over 300 trips i've taken talking to members of congress and others to find out what needed to be done. it's very similar to what you would do in the private sector. i think the biggest difference is in business, you have a board of directors. here i have congress. over 500 members. and i've gotten a lot done with my v.a. transformation but there's certain things as you alluded to, i can't get done without legislative help. very simple things. appeals modernization. we've gotten everybody together. we've put together a new proposal. new law for appeals and we simply can't get it voted on in

the congress. we have 100 pieces of legislation that we've asked for. 40 are new this year. and many of them have unanimous support from both republican and democrats. we just can't get them on the floor to be voted on. >> i hear you, secretary mcdonald. proctor & gamble will never have -- it's board of directors. coming up, what i'm obsessed with today when we come back from the "intrepid" museum live here in new york city. stay tuned. you do all this research

on a perfect car, then smash it into a tree. your insurance company raises your rates... maybe you should've done more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance.

time for our new segment called "i'm obsessed with." as we prepare for the 15th anniversary of the september 11th terrorist attacks i'm obsessed with the single biggest bureaucratic change. the $65 billion beheme eths tems the department of homeland security. dhs has 240,000 employees. its senior staff is still scattered over 120 offices in maryland, virginia and d.c. and get this. 119 congressional committees or subcommittees claim some kind of jurisdiction over the department. that's a nightmare, folks. and it produces exactly the kind of turf battles the department was created to defuse. then, of course, the mission creep issue that some people complain about with dhs. when it was first created, its

primary mission was to prevent terrorist attacks. now dhs is involved in investigating movie piracy to seizing counterfeit nba merchandise. employee morale is at the basement and despite valiant 15 years after 9/11, it is tire for washington, both congress, the president, everybody. take a hard look at whether this agency ever made since or if it does, why did it accept so many ways washington is dysfunctional? the political bureaucracy own this is failure right now that is dhs. the idea may be a good one but the execution creating it, here we are, 13 years later, still doesn't have a permanent home and we're still trying to define the mission. a political bureaucratic failure

of both parties and it adds to the distrust that people have in washington. something to be focused on. i'm terrible at golf.

he is. but i'd like to keep being terrible at golf for as long as i can. new patented ensure enlive has hmb plus 20 grams of protein to help rebuild muscle. for the strength and energy to do what you love. new ensure enlive. always be you.

time now, the panel. mark, let me start with you. it does matter tonight that trump got to go second. they both wanted to go second. that presents a different unique challenge for hillary clinton. she wanted to go second. she wanted to point out that he didn't know this or this or this. how do you think most people will judge tonight? how would you be judging? >> it is the commander in chief forum. so i think the person who looks most like a commaer in chief needs knowledge. most peopl when they run for president, they often say, boy, i was not prepared when i was a presidential candidate or a party's nominee. to see which one is closer. that's a big advantage for

hillary clinton. but a counter intuitive takeoff. there's a low bar for donald trump, honestly. even him going second. he could benefit from it. >> this is making the clinton campaign crazy. they believe trump is graded on a curve. >> and this will help normalize him. so he's not crazy and he's not yelling and shouting. let's say, he is not saying crooked hillary and the way he demeaned a lot of his primary election opponents. and he can sound tough. yet, this audience is a smart audience. not just the viewing audience but the people in the room. these are veterans. people who are military active duty and retired and they will know if someone doesn't know what they're talking about when they talk about surface ships and how many battalions and when they're throwing numbers around. >> and that will be -- i know what i'm looking for is that personal moment between one of these veterans that asked one of them a and he can they connect to these people. right? that will be interesting to

watchful. >> when i'm on the campaign trail, what i've heard from people, they are very worried about their own personal safety. people are really looking for someone who will stabilize the united states, that they feel like they will smartly go after isis, that won't invite more attacks or make the united states a target. i think, when people are asking them a question. it will have to be emthat a athleticwick the veterans but also people who don't have a great grasp. who can't say how many battalions but they want to have a president says, if this person gets call in the middle of the night. this is who i want to answer that phone call. >> it's interesting. tone tonight. i don't expect fireworks. both candidates know they're in front of military veterans. >> this has been the most unpredictable election season. one other thing that is fascinating, this is a very high important scrimmage like in a football game of almost a pre season. i remember 2008. >> the third pre season game is the one that decides the

starters. >> remember rick warren, there was that faith forum. obama didn't do all that well but what you do help for the debate season of this is important but also the big game is yet to come. >> i'll getting all sorts of bells and whistles. you have to do nightly. i have to do nightly. we are excited about tonight. the intrepid reporters will do more reporting and we'll have more after this. it's not a banner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then. when it's convenient. it's using state-of-the-art simulators to better prepare for any situation. it's giving offshore teams onshore support. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesn't seem right. at bp, safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. at bp, safety is never being satisfied. ♪

at bp, ♪afety is never being satisfied. take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive. the nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. now get 0% apr for 72 months, plus $500 bonus cash. everyone thought i was crazy to open a hotel here. everyone said it's so hard to be a musician, but i can't imagine doing anything else. now that the train makes it easier to get here, the neighborhood is really changing. i'm always hopping on the train, running all over portland. i have to go wherever the work is trains with innovative siemens technology help keep cities moving, so neighborhoods and businesses can prosper.

i can book 3 or 4 gigs on a good weekend. i'm booked solid for weeks. it takes ingenuity to make it in the big city. ssoon, she'll be binge-studying. now she writes mostly in emoji. soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade. today, the only spanish words he knows are burrito and enchilada. soon, he'll take notes en espanol. get back to great with the right gear. from the place with the experts. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. customer service!d. ma'am. this isn't a computer... wait. you're real? with discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u.s., like me, anytime. wow. this is a recording. really? no, i'm kidding. 100% u.s.-based customer service. here to help, not to sell.

that's all for tonight. we'll have more tomorrow. all the postgame fallout from the commander in chief forum. keep it here. we're now two hours away from the first big event of this upcoming election. good evening, everyone. i'm steve cokornacki. less than two hours away, i'm coming to you from the the commander in chief forum which will begin. hillary clinton will be up first. she'll take questions from matt lauer and then from veterans in the audience. then it will be donald trump's turn. this will be the first time these with candidates have appeared back to back before the same audience on the same stage and also the closest they'll come to a head to