florida or ohio or at least for now. they are certainly acting like it. democrats still need to find one more republican-held seat to win and hold on to nevada's seat. very possible. but winning the senate is no longer the same sure thing it seemed like it was just two months ago. the check on both clinton and trump is that a message that republicans are actually finding is working. we shall see. it's still just september. that's all. "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm mark halperin. >> i'm john heilemann. "with all due respect" to gary johnson, perhaps your question would have been more appropriate in a slightly different setting. >> geography, 16. >> this city had been its nation's business capital and was once the end of the silk road. gary? >> what is aleppo. >> you're kidding. >> no.

we will take late-breaking swing state polls for 600, alex. this afternoon, the q poll, the quinnipiac university poll, showed that in florida, hillary clinton and donald trump are tied with 47%. >> wow. >> got clinton up by four points in north carolina with 47% and trump at 43%. clinton is also up by five points in pennsylvania according to the q poll with 48%, donald trump at 43%. and finally, donald trump up by one point in ohio with 46%, obviously hillary clinton at 45%. we will talk more about all that a little later. first, let's talk about an intrepid story. last night clinton and trump went back-to-back at nbc's commander in chief forum, a daily double let:down. when it was over, trump was roundly hammered on substance while clinton was hammered on style. clinton was criticized for at

times seeming perturbed for questions over her handling of classified information. 12 hours after the forum ended, clinton continued her new policy, holding her third media availability in four days on a tarmac in white plains, new york before boarding her plane to set off to a campaign event in north carolina. here is her reaction to how donald trump performed. >> when asked how he would stop the spread of global terrorism, trump's answer was simply take the oil. the united states of america does not invade other countries to plunder and pillage. we don't send our brave men and women around the world to steal oil and that's not even getting into the absurdity of what it would involve. massive infrastructure, large numbers of troops, many years on the ground. of course, trump hasn't thought through any of that. >> so as i said, she went off to north carolina and made a bunch of the same kinds of points.

so in the wake of that important forum last night, is hillary clinton on national security, is she on offense or defense after last night? >> i think she did that event just because they feel they are on offense on this putin thing. even trump advisers said to me in the last day every time trump raises support for putin they think it's a mistake. i think she really wants to go on offense with that. i will say it's just a reality of presidential campaign coverage and politics, so much is driven by the polls. the framing of the polls. these quinnipiac polls are huge because trump's path to 270 involves these four states. i talked to two of his advisers in the last 24 hours about their view of the race, and both of them basically said winning these four states is the way he gets to 270. the next most likely option is a big drop-off. the fact that he's competitive in these four, pennsylvania still being the toughest, is huge. she's on offense i think after the forum. she feels. and i think she's right, the putin thing alone is something that doesn't help him.

the polls put her -- the frame of the day is going to be this is a tight race and she's doing everything she can to fight him off. >> i don't think that's exactly right in the sense i don't think it's that tight a race in the sense that trump has a path to 270 but a very narrow path. it does run through those states but only through those states. he's got not many other ways to go. reason why those states are so important to him is because he's got not a lot of other options. if you look at all the other polling she's got, we have seen this over a week in a couple different polls where she's arizona, texas, all these other places that are conceivably georgia, places that -- where she's on offense, he's on defense. just come back to last night. last night she did seem defensive, did seem annoyed when she was questioned by matt lauer about her e-mail practices. one of the big problems with that event, she should have not wanted it to be a half hour. she should have wanted an hour so she could talk more about substance. when she's talking about substance she thinks she has the upper hand and neither is -- i think she's right.

>> trump was panned over a lot of things. a lack of substance, a lack of specifics. he was hit for saying america's generals have been quote, reduced to rubble. yet again, he was criticized correctly for mischaracterizing his own past statements regarding whether he was for or against the iraq invasion. here's what trump said today in cleveland on his views of that conflict. he reports, you decide. clarifying? >> iraq is one of the biggest differences in this race. i opposed going in and i did oppose it, despite the media saying no, yes, no. i opposed going in. and i opposed the reckless way hillary clinton took us out along with president obama. letting isis fill that big terrible void. but i was opposed to the war from the beginning, long after my interview with howard stern.

>> from the beginning, long after. >> yes. >> as we said, trump was criticized by hillary clinton and many others for his praise again last night of vladimir putin. those remarks were criticized by the republican head of the homeland security committee and by the speaker of the house paul ryan. today, though, this afternoon late on cnn, trump's running mate mike pence came to his defense. >> i think it's inarguable that vladimir putin has been a stronger leader in his country than barack obama has been in this country. >> so trump was in cleveland largely making a speech about education. his campaign, though, was dealing with news of a big staff shakeup yesterday in florida and a report in "the washington post" that there were mass departures from the billionaire's policy shop in d.c. recently. so again, lots going on in trump world but let's go back to the forum last night. if trump's performance in the first debate tracks with how he was last night, with all those

areas of criticism but some areas of stylistic flourish, will that be good enough for him to win the first debate or does he need to up his game? >> i think the debate and the forum, to misstate the obvious, are going to be different things. the fact he will be in direct confrontation with hillary clinton, the fact there will be more time will make it harder for him to do what he did last night which was basically bluster his way through and not go very long on anything. look, this thing on the iraq war, i just got to say, i know we have a lot to talk about here, but he's lying. he's just lying. it's not just the stern interview. there are three separate incidents before the war where he did not at all oppose it. first time he opposed it in public record is after the war had been going on for almost a year. he keeps saying this thing, it's not true, and people are finally starting to hold him to account to it. i think if you lie in a presidential debate like that, there's a high risk as there's going to be more people watching and more ability to fact check by the moderator and hillary clinton. >> every day closer to the general election he's being held more accountable for things he

says that aren't true or inconsistent or deemed irresponsible. i think he got a taste of it last night. it will be harder. he won the coin flip so he got to go second. it will be harder. if she shows up at the first debate with the demeanor she had last night and tries to hold him accountable with that demeanor, rather than a light touch, i think he could get through the first debate winning with that level of performance on all aspects. i will say again, in the states he has to win, i think there are a lot of voters, maybe not majority, but plurality, who don't mind trump's, you know, totality of what you get with trump. >> again, just to come back, the fact is, i was critical of her on style, i think she was not -- she did not do that well. if she performs that way in the debate it could allow him to skate through. from her point of view she will be better. but let's come back to the putin thing. it's really important. there's no one around trump that i know who thinks it's smart for him to keep praising vladimir putin. >> mike pence kind of backed him up there. >> yes.

okay. mike pence is the only one. but it is nuts, i think, for him to do this. the truth is if you apply the 2008 standard, if barack obama had said anything like that in 2008, what would republicans have said? they would have said he was disqualified. okay. >> we have a new bloomberg politics purple strategy slice poll out today that looks at likely voters who do not hold college degrees. in fact, they hold high school diplomas and less. we see that hillary clinton is beating donald trump in a two way race, 47% to 42%. we broke it down by race. we found a huge gap between white and non-white voters. again, all of whom had no more than a high school degree. among white voters, trump beats clinton 55% to 33% but when you look at non-white voters, she dominates, dominates, 83% to 10%. we asked respondents about their top concerns regarding each candidate. 56% said their top concern about donald trump was his past comments about women, referring to them variously as pigs, dogs

and slobs. when we asked about clinton, their biggest concern was her handling of sensitive and classified information. what jumps out at you? what are the implications? >> these campaigns must have polling that matches ours because they are hitting on the things that our polls suggest voters do have a lot of concerns about. look, turnout in a close race, you know, the ground game matters, getting out the early vote matters, creating passion and inspiration both for your candidate and against the other side, all matter. these campaigns see that. they see the negative as inspirational as much as the positive. >> this is an area where it seems to me ground game's going to matter. we have known for awhile trump does better than she does with white high school and below educated voters. we also knew that just tracking how she does in the demographics in general, she would way kill him on -- with this group as she does with all other non-white voters. but the real issue is those kind of voters, it requires the effort not just to persuade them but turn them out.

this is a place where it will be a huge test for her about whether she can turn out the members of the obama coalition. >> the republican national committee officials continue to say trump may have gotten a late start in the ground game but we have the best ground game in the history of politics. if they're right -- >> history of politics? history of politics? >> that's what they say. >> were they around for 2012 and 2008? >> they say they have the best ever. if that's the case, and they can mobilize these people, that could make the difference in the states that will decide this. i will say again, trump has a coalition that can get them a plurality. he does. she's the favorite. no question. but he's got a coalition. all right. what is aleppo? we will tell you all about it when we come back. mprovement. mprovement. come triumph, or trial, tennis legend serena williams moves forward, and with the chase mobile® app we're on the same path, offering innovative, and convenient ways to bank.

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it has been a pretty rough day for the libertarian candidate for president, gary johnson, because of an answer he gave this morning on "morning joe" on msnbc about aleppo. here is a quick guide to what

the last 24 hours have been like for governor johnson. >> in the george washington university battleground survey, gary johnson has 11% support among likely voters. >> have you looked at these pollfor gary johnson? 42 states at 10% plus, 15 states at 15% plus. >> mitt romney tweeted quote, i hope to get to see former gop governors gary johnson and bill weld on the debate stage this fall. >> we need to join arms with china to deal with north korea. >> what would you do if you were elected about aleppo? >> about? >> aleppo. >> and what is aleppo? >> you're kidding. >> no. >> it's going to be a big flap. i promise you. it already is. >> no, i'm heavily frustrated with myself. i feel horrible. >> what do you think will happen? >> well, i have to get smarter and that's just part of the process. >> you're talking about the

president of the united states. if you don't know what aleppo is, you can't be president. >> gary johnson had no idea what aleppo was. he seemed surprised by the questions. >> his response is what is aleppo. >> you could look on the map and find aleppo. >> did you have a brain freeze moment? >> no excuse. i was thinking in terms of acronym. >> so when governor johnson left here, we were bullish on the progress of this campaign. this is the biggest moment, the worst moment and the most attention, after the morning and days pass how do you think he stands? >> i think it's fair to say what we saw with him yesterday was between bill weld and gary johnson, bill weld has a lot firmer grasp on foreign policy than gary johnson does. he came across tentative and a little vague. i think it's a big problem. this is a key moment for him. this is going to get a lot of attention, the wrong kind of attention. i don't know whether it's strictly speaking disqualifying because in some ways, donald trump has done 10 or 15 things

that are worse. but it's problematic if you are trying to break through. obviously, you can only say the obvious things. it's not great. >> elites will pay a lot of attention to it. "the view" was talking about it. he's handling it okay. we need to hear maybe a little more from governor weld, see how he comes in and buttresses. i don't think he's dead. i think because we have two candidates in this race who have gone through a lot worse in their own ways, i think he can come back. he needed momentum to get into the first debate. this isn't great for momentum. he needs to get better known. he's better known now. he will be on broadcast network news and he will be talked about in social media more than ever before. he's got to try to figure out how to parlay it into positive attention. >> given the way many millions of americans feel about donald trump and hillary clinton, if they see this and it makes them explore gary johnson more, maybe i'm willing to forgive that for

the fact that he's not one of those other two. >> yep. when we come back, legendary political strategist mary matalin joins us after this. don't let dust and allergens get between you and life's betiful moments. flonase gives you more complete alley relief. most allergy pills only control one inflammatory substance. flonase controls 6. and six is greater than one. flonase changes everything. ♪ remember here at ally, nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. who's with me? i'm in. i'm in. i'm in. i'm in. ♪ ♪

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office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. ♪"my friendsnow me so well. they can tell what i'm thinking, just by looking in my eyes. but what they didn't know was that i had dry, itchy eyes. i used artificial tears from e moment i woke up... ...to the moment i went to bed. so i finally decided to show my eyes some love,... ...some eyelove. eyelove means having a chat with your eye dtor about your dry eyes because if you're using artificial tears often and still have symptoms, it could be chronic dry eye. it's all about eyelove, my friends. joining us is everyone's favorite republican turned libertarian, political strategist mary matalin. great to see you here. we have history with you and your libertarianism. it seems appropriate we ask the question, your party's candidate nominee, gary johnson, today had

a bit of a moment. what do you think about the question we were just discussing, dead or can he survive? >> no. his problem is he's not really a libertarian. it's not attractive to a real libertarian, you know why you're a libertarian. i don't think the aleppo issue will get him. i like what you guys said. everyone's going to be looking at him now but in this election, as you know, for the two major candidates, over 50% of each of their support is due to not liking the other guy. so hillary's supporters don't like trump and that's who they're voting for so in his case, support is predicated on they don't like either of the others and that's why they're looking at him. if you're a libertarian -- >> in what way is notehe not a libertarn? >> ephe's the political equivalt of a cafeteria catholic.

he's not on point on things. he's a lovely fellow and i hope he does get to the debates but i would have rather that austin pearson be the candidate. >> i don't want to oversimplify what being a libertarian means but he's for lower government, less taxes on the fiscal side and for less government in terms of social issues. he doesn't have it in his gut or -- >> it's relative to the one party which is two parties representing one interest, yes, he's more libertarian than that. but he's not a clarion call for classical liberalism or classic libertarianism. >> he's not like an intellectual -- >> you are making me say something mean. >> it seems to me i agree he has some positions that are a little bit off. i agree he's not been a member of the party for more than 48 minutes. i just don't quite get what are you saying about him.

>> there's no ostensibly, apparently, no contemporary adaptation of libertarian principles, to trade, to foreign policy, to name anything. >> we talked about the quinnipiac polls that show trump within striking distance in the four states he needs to win to get to 270. give us your general handicapping of the race. has trump got a 20% chance, 25%? >> i think he has a 100% chance of winning. as you know -- >> you think he's definitely going to win? >> i'm positive he's going to win. the race is closing despite mrs. clinton's dumping hundreds of millions of dollars relative to his $4 million or whatever. >> you think hillary clinton has a 0% chance of winning? >> let's say 10%, 15%. i just think he's going to win. the closing of the races, the turnout that you all mentioned, whether or not he has a turnout operation as you noted, the rnc does and the senate races particularly in those states are

turning out every cell, under every robbinck. toomey will have a good operation. he's coming back in the right places, he's in the margin of error in about ten of these states. between the rnc and senate races and the down ballot races pushing up because people are nervous, that will be his turnout operation. >> we should spend the rest of the time asking about the trump cabinet. >> no kidding. 90% chance of winning. >> as you know, i have a mini puppy in this race. he's not really my guy. i'm intending to vote for him. he's not a conservative, not a republican, but he's most importantly not a progressive. what he is is, he has an action for bias and what conservatives and the republicans have been is james 2:17. faith with no action. that's dead. he's a man of action, i guess. >> let me ask a purely political question. something we have talked about a lot in the last few days and

earlier. can you explain what possible political rationale donald trump has for speaking so kindly of vladimir putin over and over again? >> yes. i can. although i don't confer the campaign except to say i have worked with kellyanne conway who is brilliant, really, really brilliant. she's escalated his maturation rate which you all agree with that. i think he thinks he's not complimenting putin. i think he thinks he's attacking obama. you asked the rationale. i think he sees everything a little different. >> but that's a psychological rationale, not a political one. there's no one around him virtually except for maybe mike pence, according to pence today, who thinks it's in his political interest to speak well of vladimir putin who is wildly unpopular among republicans, democrats, everyone in the country. >> right, right, right. i don't disagree with that. but again, we always have the same conversation. we think like we think.

we are not thinking like the people who will end up voting for him. they think we are all nuts and they do think the essence of what he's saying is true even though they are two completely different systems and a system that he daisavowed, communism, t is true that putin is a better leader, stronger leader, than obama is in this country. i wouldn't say it. i think it's a distraction. apparently distractions for trump have had no impact, no negative. >> i got to go back to your bullishness on trump, because you think he has a better chance than the trump campaign seems to think. you think he will win michigan? >> of the ten -- not necessarily. >> he will win wisconsin? >> i think he could win -- i think he's going to be competitive in the states he needs to be competitive in, with the senate races pushing him up. florida, ohio, possibly pennsylvania. >> he doesn't win pennsylvania there's almost no chance. >> you asked if there was a path. >> but here's what i'm trying to reconcile. you say 90% chance, then you're

like maybe he will win pennsylvania. there's no way to reconcile those two things. >> we are two months out today. i'm looking at fundamentals even though i think this is a race that -- >> what can be more fundamental than the electoral college? >> i think there's something going on we don't understand that voters are in the same way that we made fun of the rallies and who was turning out to rallies. >> we never made fun of that. but okay. >> did you not? >> no. >> okay. good for you. she has a turnout operation as we just discussed the mechanics are evident at the rnc level but she does not have something he has which is more critical in an operation and that's enthusiasm. so yes, i will say pennsylvania then. yes, he has to win pennsylvania. new mexico, nevada, iowa. >> you think he will win new mexico? >> he will win states like that that he's within the margin of error currently and not just outlier polls but these polls, too. >> i just can't imagine the kind

of fight you get in with your husband nowadays. >> you think i see my dispositive go-to guy on politics? i don't think so. >> tell me what you would advise trump to do as he prepares for this first debate against hillary clinton. >> talk to somebody else. i would not try to be anything different than what he is. i would have a couple things up my sleeve. you know what he has been right on is the large, large, large stuff, on immigration, on economics and on national security. >> all right. we got to leave it there. thank you for coming on the show. coming up, inside views of the campaign trail after this. make them lighter? the lubricants that improved fuel economy. even technology to make engines more efficient. what company does all this? exxonmobil, that's who. we're working on all these things to make cars better

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joining us now to talk about what's going on out on the campaign trail, two campaign reporters who track their respective candidates pretty much every step of the way. in charlotte, north carolina, covering hillary clinton, msnbc political correspondent kasie

hunt and in cleveland, ohio, covering donald trump, nbc news correspondent katy tur. kasie hunt, your candidate that you cover, hillary clinton, seems to be on a humanizing tour. we have seen this before. candidates looking to show more of themselves. talk about what she's doing and why you think she's doing it. >> reporter: well, there's a few pieces of evidence we have seen in the last couple of days that i think point to this. first of all, the press conferences. we have talked a lot about her unwillingness to talk to the reporters who cover her over most of this campaign but that's changed dramatically in the last week. all three times she's traveled with her press corps on this new plane, she's talked to reporters, she's taken questions and of course, yesterday she talked to matt lauer. she's also, it seems getting a little more personal in some of the interviews she's doing. she talked to humans of new york, you guys have probably seen it, they interview usually normal new yorkers on the street and they ask -- they talked to

hillary clinton and she told them a personal story about being harassed as a woman in a law school exam, the guys there said hey, if you take my spot, we are going to get sent to vietnam, what are you doing here. she talked about how she learned early from things like that not to show her emotions and maybe it's made her seem aloof. i think this is all deliberately strategic. i think there's been some pressure from democrats, it's possible this is just another swing back, right. we talked a lot about this back in the spring when it seemed like she potentially was going to have some trouble running against donald trump, and democrats are starting to get a little worried she was coasting and not doing enough to address the fact that there are a lot of americans who don't trust her and that these polls are tightening. it seems like they're making a deliberate strategic shift to try to counteract that. >> we saw donald trump today talk about his position on the iraq war, saying once again something that seems to run squarely in the face of all available evidence that those of us who possess the internet can

muster. why does he keep misrepresenting his position on the war? >> reporter: because he can't say that he was wrong on something or that he may have made a mistake. we have never heard donald trump do that. he's expressed regret for unnamed offenses, for some of the things he said during this campaign season, but we have never seen him talk about a mistake he might have made in the past. it seems like the position he's taking now by saying that he has the judgment and would not have gone into iraq and if he were in congress, we have voted against the war, it seems like he's staking out this supreme judgment position in a way that doesn't allow him to say that i didn't have the best judgment back in 2003. he's sort of doing it, he's saying that back then he didn't have the same information hillary clinton had at her disposal, he was a private person, a businessman, why were they even asking me about it, but at the same time, he is claiming that he has the judgment now when he don't necessarily have the same information or didn't have any real intelligence information

until these past two briefings, he's trying to say now that he would have known all along. so this is part of donald trump's selling himself to the american public as somebody who's fit to be commander in chief, somebody who won't get us into even more conflicts overseas, somebody who won't allow any sort of vacuum to be filled by a terrorist organization. it's problematic, though, because the evidence does not support that. donald trump in 2002 seemed to express support for the iraq invasion on howard stern, then today he talked about a 2003 interview with neil cavuto which is basically a word salad of him saying maybe you should go in, maybe you shouldn't, maybe you should wait for the u.n., doesn't really matter, i'm really thinking about the economy right now. anything but a strong disapproval of an invasion. he's also talking about a 2004 "esquire" interview saying he knew that iraq was a mess as some sort of proof he was always against it. as you know, that article in

2004 came out about a year and a half after the invasion already began. in fact, "esquire" is now pushing back, the magazine, posting an addendum to their story, an editor's note that says that donald trump did not express that he was against the war in 2003 but rather, that this was a 2004 interview which of course is after the invasion. >> ask you both, kasie first, both candidates you cover played to their worst types last night in this warmup to the debate. hillary clinton was defensive, didn't seem particularly warm, and kind of long-winded. trump, we have talked about all the problems he displayed last night. i'm wondering why do you think that is, if you have a view, and what's the campaign saying about that? >> reporter: well, look, privately i think the campaign is frustrated that so much time was spent on e-mails, in particular, and they are raising questions about whether or not that's something that speaks to

the qualifications to be commander in chief. now, that said, i think they feel like little bit of the pressure was taken off of them and she also successfully got back on message this morning with that press conference. of course, she can still, because she's held so few of them, it's a mechanism that's really working for -- to her advantage, standing up and doing that, but i think the reality is this also gave them an opportunity to see where they need to practice for the first debate and where exactly -- it was pretty clear she was personally frustrated with what was going on right from the get-go, and that's something now that they still have at least another couple weeks to practice before they face down donald trump. >> katy? >> well, i think the campaign felt positively, at least they're saying they felt positively, about donald trump's performance last night. donald trump tweeting as you saw, as you have seen, that hillary clinton did a terrible job but if you take a look at donald trump off prompter and

donald trump on prompter, which he's been on for the past few weeks now, they are two very different candidates. on prompter, he's very careful about his words. he isn't so outrageous. he doesn't necessarily make the same headlines. when he goes off prompter, though, that's when you hear him praise president putin of russia. that's when you hear him talking about our generals being reduced to rubble or taking the oil. these are not the themes or ideas that we are hearing him use on the campaign trail any longer while he is on teleprompter. so his campaign is clearly trying to keep him on message. the problem that they're facing is that donald trump, when he is off script, is liable to say these sort of outrageous things and going forward, what is going to be a concern is how he's going to do in the debates, as kasie was alluding to. what kind of donald trump is going to show up to the debate. he has said he's not doing traditional debate prep, he's not doing any sort of mock debates. i'm curious to find out and the

campaign frankly is not telling us any of this, what exactly he's doing and what they're doing to keep him on message and stop him from saying that -- saying something that might bury an otherwise good debate performance on his part. >> thank you both. coming up, our interview with gary johnson about personal stuff. you'll enjoy that. it's a very specific moment, the launch window. we have to be very precise. if we're not ready when the planets are perfectly aligned, that's it. we need really tight temperature controls. engineering, aerodynamics- a split second too long could mean scrapping it all and starting over. propulsion, structural analysis- maple bourbon caramel. that's what we're working on right now. from design through production, siemens technology helps manufacturers meet critical deadlines. i think this'll be our biggest flavor yet. when you only have one shot, you need a whole lot of ingenuity.

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this morning as we mentioned, gary johnson embarrassed himself in his response when he was requested about aleppo and for the first and possibly last time in this campaign, everyone spent the day talking about the libertarian presidential nominee. yesterday mark and i spent some time with him and his running mate, bill weld. since most people don't know much about either of them personally, we wanted to give them a chance to show us and the country who are they, who are these dudes. we started with the top of the ticket. asking gary johnson to talk about his family. >> my kids have just been textbook. they are wonderful. >> how old are they? >> 34 and 37. >> where do they live? >> denver and new mexico. but more than anything, i enjoy being with them. so i'm a grandfather also and my parents are still alive. they live in new mexico.

my father was world war ii veteran. saving private ryan, band of brothers. he paratrooped into normandy. >> when you say textbook, what does that mean? >> they are terrific. you dream about kids, the way they should be. toes are my children. >> before you got into politics you were in construction and real estate, right? >> actually i started a one-man handyman business in albuquerque in 1974, me, and actually grew that business to employ over 1,000 people. >> in the early days, when it was just gary johnson and associates with no associates, what kind of stuff did you do? >> i painted houses, did concrete, did carpentry work. >> all self-taught? >> no. actually, starting -- i paid for everything that i have had in my life since i have been 17 years old and starting at age 17, i started working construction jobs because those are the highest paying jobs. and actually got on a crew where we built houses from the ground

up. >> most times when we sit down with presidential candidates we have to ask did you inhale. in your case, we know you inhaled. you are a proud inhaler. >> what i am is a truth teller. tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. that's who i am. in that context, yes, i have inhaled. >> one follow on this question. i think it's really interesting to all the people. there are many users who identify with your campaign. you have said you are not going to partake in using thc related products while running for president and if you were elected, you would also abstain, right? >> right. >> given your views, why do you think it's important to abstain if you become president? >> i have always maintained that you should not be on the job impaired and running for president is a 24/7 gig. being president is a 24/7 gig. the notion of incoming missiles 12 minutes to deal with it, i think the american people need to be assured that there's going to be somebody that answers that phone that's all there.

so drinking as part of that, look, i don't drink and i would also maintain that you shouldn't be drinking and be on the job either as president. >> your view is basically abstention should have applied previously, like all presidents should stay from any substance that will impair them at all times? >> i don't want to speak for others. that's the libertarian part of me. you may be able to do that, that may be a decision you're okay with but for me personally, from a personal standpoint, i would be abstaining. >> better movie, fantasia or the sound of music? >> fantasia? >> better band, beatles or rolling stones? >> beatles. >> madmen or breaking bad. >> breaking bad. >> why? >> it was filmed in albuquerque. but the best television of all time and space, game of thrones.

oh, my gosh. >> no metaphor there for you? >> it's -- that's it. you haven't seen it, obviously, or you wouldn't have even asked that question. >> i dabbled. i don't get the accents. the accents confuse me. >> you would have said i concur with that. >> i'm a breaking bad guy. know why? filmed in albuquerque. >> i put breaking bad in the top five but i put downton abbey in the top, and sopranos. >> favorite nonfiction book? >> i guesst would have to be game change, i guess. >> would have to be. >> that's the right answer. what's your favorite piece of fiction? >> well, i guess it would have to be fountainhead. >> is there a president who you would model yourself after? >> jefferson has a lot of appeal

to me that i would be the most frugal president that has ever served in our lifetimes, leading by example, bringing an end to the imperial presidency that myself, bill weld, we are going to be good stewards of this office but we are not getting elected king or dictator. >> so the commission on presidential debates says they got to get to 15% by some date in the middle of september. they're not quite there yet. they think even if they don't get there, the commission might deign to put them in. >> my current sense is they will get in one debate. they will put him in maybe the third debate. they are a package. the two of them together are an interesting team and they sell themselves as a team. weld is prominent in advertising, et cetera. i think they need to show people their personalities and seem to be kind of interesting, engaging

figures and he is in that interview. >> i have said the commission on presidential debates is interested in educating the public and if the country is where it is now, forget about the politics of it, who it benefits tactically, i think it would be good to have him onstage. i think it would be a good thing for the country. people want alternatives. that was gary johnson. we will now get to know his running mate bill weld. that means you get to try as much as you want... ...of whatever flavors are calling your name. seriously. like new garlic sriracha-grilled shrimp. it's a little spice... ...a little sizzle... ...and a lot just right. and try new parmesan peppercorn shrimp. helloooo crispy goodness. and the classic... ...handcrafted shrimp scampi... ...you can't get enough of? still gonna floor you. it may be called endless... ...but that doesn't mean it'll last.

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yesterday during the calm before the firestorm that broke out around gary johnson today, we got a chance to chat with both gary johnson and his running mate, bill weld, about their personal stories. so we showed you johnson. now we will show you our talk with bill weld. we started out talking about his relationship with some of his friends in high places, namely high at the top of the democratic party and the party's nominee, hillary clinton. >> i like them both. bill clinton was my favorite fellow governor back in the 1990s. i have known mrs. clinton since

she was hillary rodham. we both worked on the nixon impeachment. she was majority staff, i was minority staff, but we worked closely together on framing what's the grounds for impeachment of a president. that's an unforgettable experience. i had a good relationship with them both over the years. >> tell us about your kids. where do they live, what are they like? >> i got eight kids. five bio-kids. married twice, married to susan roosevelt, teddy's great granddaughter for 25 years. we have five kids, all of whom went to college and graduate school and are doing great, two in california, one's in the foreign service, one's in baltimore, one's in boston and three stepchildren, been married 13 years now to leslie mar stha marshall, a writer. our kids, one in california, one in washington and marshall bradley is my stepson. >> when the weld marshalls get

together, what do you all do? >> it's pretty mischievous. we get together for good vicious gossip. car ride is an ideal place to have a good vicious gossip because the people you gossip about can't hear you. >> when you were growing up did you think about going into politics? did you think about public service from an early age? >> i thought i would be a latin teacher. having said that, my father was like the king of the republicans in suffolk county, long island so i heard the yap, yap from political meetings in our house from a very early age which i associated with cigar smoke. to this day, i love the smell of cigar smoke. it meant everyone will be home for the evening. >> you have been a public figure, u.s. attorney general and i wonder if someone were writing your biography and said i have read all the articles, watched the footage, what would

you worry they would get wrong about the essence of bill weld? >> part of my passion, most of my adult life, has been public office and knowing what you want to do when you get there. i got in right after governor dukakis. the state budget was too big. the state was also bankrupt and everyone said so, including governor dukakis' administration finance secretary. i knew i wanted to set the fiscal house in order, erase the reputation of tax-achusetts, cut the state payroll and budget, and i did that. that was a big success. we rewarded after doing that on the re-elect. this is the third one where i know exactly what i would want to do if i get in and it's exactly the same thing i did as governor of massachusetts and gary johnson did as governor of new mexico, reverse the fiscal policy of the state, set the fiscal house in order, cut spending, cut taxes and get us back on the straight path. what strengthens the economy

indirectly, because if small and medium businesses which is where most of the new jobs are, if they know taxes are only going in one direction, down, they don't need big tax cuts. all they need is that security and they will build the plant next door and hire the nine or 23 or 41 workers and that makes the unemployment rate go down. >> you were in the soundproof chamber when we were talking to governor johnson so i will ask you a couple things i asked him. better movie, fantasia or sound of music? >> oh, my goodness. i guess sound of music. >> why? >> julie andrews. was she in it? >> she was. >> popular culture is not my long suit. latin and greek are longer suits. >> beatles or stones? >> stones. please. >> what books meant the most to you? >> oh, i think james thomas flexner's four-volume biography of washington was probably my favorite historical book. in literature, my two favorite authors are jorge borjes and

vladimir nabokov, the russian. "pale fire." >> our thanks to beth toth the governors, gary johnson and bill weld. bill weld is a really impressive guy. >> he's always been incredibly impressive. i know a lot of people, maybe this is an east coast thing rather than western united states thing. lot of people have asked why isn't bill weld at the top of this ticket. probably because johnson is better known among libertarians but weld is an impressive guy, knows a lot about foreign policy, about doe mmestic polic was a very popular guy in the very blue state of massachusetts. i always thought he had a national future 20 years ago. >> best i can tell he has not weighed in on this aleppo flap. that guy could talk about aleppo for probably 40 hours. i will be interesti to see when he talks about it, because he wl be asked about it, how he handles it.

>> i think it's interesting, we talk to them about other stuff all day, gary johnson, ask you why he's doing this crazy thing, he said i want to not leave any stone unturned, have regrets about my life. i feel like bill weld, this is a little bit of a joy ride. like johnson said come do this with me and it's one last chance to have a voice. i can't believe he's not wringing his hands over what happened today. >> they need one more big push to try to get to 15%. our thanks to gary johnson and bill weld. we'll be right back.

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bloombergpolitics.com, check out more from the latest slice poll of likely voters without a college degree, high school and less. >> craziness going on out there right now. >> like what? >> some people are saying the clinton campaign says this race is over, she's going to win. mary matalin sat here and said trump has a 90% chance of winning. there's just a lot of

uncertainty. what we do know is hillary clinton has more paths to 270 by a lot. >> yeah. i have never felt the intensity since the first week. we say to you sayonara. >> "hardball with chris matthews" is next. two months left. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in philadelphia. it's the day after hillary clinton and donald trump both appeared before veterans and answered questions about protecting our country. donald trump made the most news and stirred up the most heat. he ridiculed american military leaders saying the generals had been reduced to rubble and he suggested he would fire them. he praised vladimir putin, calling him quote, someone who has very strong control over