presidential nominee tim kaine in ohio today. i'm betty nguyen, alongside louis bergdorf. "morning joe" starts right now. >> how was your weekend? >> it was wonderful. >> how are you feeling? >> it's fall. it's almost fall. >> are you feeling okay? >> yes, i am. >> everybody okay? nobody going to faint on us here. >> it's monday, september 12th. >> anybody? woozy? come on. come on. it's not like we're talking about a death in the family. you all don't have to be so -- >> they're uptight. >> i'm woozy 85% of the time. >> when you fall back like that, we all know what it has to do with. don't have to wait for 12 hours from your people. >> full transparency on that matter. >> every day.

>> welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have managing editor of bloomberg politics and co-host that airs at 6:00 on msnbc, mark halperin and john heilemann. chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university, author of the book "democracy and black" and columnist to "time" magazine and in washington, associate editor for "the washington post." >> let's just get right to it. i had a huge democratic supporter call me yesterday afternoon. it's over. it's over. what? it's over. she fainted. trump is going to be -- calm down, cowboy. i went back and i looked at it. it doesn't look great. doesn't look great. it's over? the campaign is over because she fainted. there are a lot of conspiracy

theorists and it's going to feed into it. video doesn't look good. i tell you what, i wake up at 4:00 a.m. every day. done it for a decade. there are times when i'm walking down stairs and, you know, very active guy, i have to stop for a second and grab a handrail. you do that every day. you do what she's been doing every day. i'm not arguing her case for her. for people that sit back in their arm chairs all day watching cable news and say how could somebody do that? when you go back and you think about in january what was she doing? she was debating bernie sanders every night on cnn. they had those town hall meetings. okay. one of those a week would kill most people. she's been doing it nonstop. so to take this and say it proves that she's unfit to be president of the united states. i'm sorry. it's stupid.

i'm sewure there are a lot of m republican bretheran that would agree. she needs to release her medical records. i will tell you, you've seen me. i do prohibition. i am up sweating and everything. once a show. i've been up since 4:00. it's 10:00 at night. i'm on stage. i got to close my eyes and stop and say lean back on your heels so if you pass out you will fall into the drums. >> what's the difference with donald trump? he doesn't do work behind the scenes. >> i want to see because when i follow all over backwards, i want a rim shot. just like that. >> let's go through what happened. >> you're right though. she's work, work, work. donald trump sits in his office and makes phone calls. how are we doing?

having a good time. a little different. >> so let's go through what happened and then we can go around the table here because i do think you bring up a good point. i've seen that happen. having said that, we don't know. i think the campaign's reaction has been frustrating. hillary clinton has canceled a trip that was set for today and tomorrow in california after falling ill during a 9/11 remembrance ceremony yesterday. last night her campaign revealed she had been diagnosed with pneumonia days earlier but that was only explained after a morning rife with speculation. clinton joined donald trump during a ceremony in lower manhattan on a warm day but after more than an hour there, she left abruptly appearing unsteady. all the while the press was left in the dark with the campaign mum on whether the democratic nominee was going or what happened but video entered her a van with help of the secret service showed she was unsteady and clearly require support.

she appeared to lean on a post and at one point her legs seemed to buckle. at 11:00 a.m. her campaign put out a statement saying she felt overheated so she departed to go to her daughter's apartment and is feeling much better. the campaign says she even played with her grandkids there before appearing in front of the awaiting press posing for a photo with a young girl hopping back in her van. >> how are you feeling, secretary clinton? are you feeling better? >> yes. thank you very much. thanks, everybody. >> clinton then headed home but left the press pool in the dust once more. left the city 90 minutes behind her motorcade and last night her physician revealed in statement "secretary clinton has been experiencing a cough related to allergies on friday. during follow-up evaluation her prolonged cough she was diagnosed with pneumonia. she was put on antibiotics and advised to rest and modify her

schedule. while at this morning's event she became overheated and dehydrated. i have just examined her and she's now rehydrated and recovering nicely." >> mark halperin, tell us, what's your take on this? >> i think there are three buckets we can put this in. >> you like buckets. these are halperin's buckets. bucket number one. >> legitimate concerns. their health, their age, their lack of transparency. lack of willingness to have a protected pool with them at one times. one is likely to be president in january. those are public things we must press them both on. two is the freak show aspects of this. and degree to which this is being made into the normal carnival and negativity. and then lastly there's the politics of it. i think until we hear how hillary clinton handles both the health issue and the buckets of

deplorables and how donald trump handles them, with he don't know where the story will go but they'll define the beginning of this week in a big way. >> john heilemann? >> i agree with all of that. >> are you going to add a basket? do you have your own bucket? >> i just think that it can't be stressed enough there's been a long history of debate and litigation in the small l sense of the word over what the standards of disclosure should be in presidential campaigns and over nominees and takes on greater weight when you talk about nominees who are older. >> there are no rules on taxes or health this year. >> there should be rules. there have never been rules. formal conventions people comply to. as you suggested, both candidates -- hillary clinton has disclosed a little bit more about her health than donald trump has. both of them by historic

standards have disclosed very little. i think it's really -- the taxes is an issue i've been banging on with trump for months and months. it's now incumbent on both candidates. donald trump is going dr. oz this week and talking about his personal health regimen. we need to have credible -- we need at this point both sides just go completely open. >> just show us the records. >> show us the records on health care. at this point, i don't mean to veer off course but it's relevant. what's going on between trump and vladimir putin? why does he show up on putin's tv network? why does he continue to shock republican supporters? is there a financial link? is he loaning him money? what's the linkage. >> it's dumb. no idea what he's saying.

>> we don't know that because he won't release his taxes. >> do you think to have someone running for president if they have pneumonia have an obligation to disclose it? >> absolutely. the issue is how much is the campaign going to stumble and lead people down the untrustworthy lane. we need transparency from this candidate. we need press conferences. we need everything to be as transparent as possible given the legacy, the clinton legacy. we have nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker who is covering the clinton campaign. why didn't they announce the pneumonia diagnosis on friday? >> reporter: well, that's the big question. and here's what we know so far. according to senior official talking to you are a own andrea mitchell, there was a sense that secretary clinton felt as if she could power through. she wasn't coughing on saturday so she thought she would just take those antibiotics and

continue with her regular schedule. the campaign obviously realizes that was now a big mistake. so there are a lot of internal discussions going on around that. also worth noting, there is a sense that the broader campaign wasn't made aware of the fact that she had been diagnosed with pneumonia. i can tell you prior to friday i had a number of conversations with a number of officials that batted down any speculation that her cough was anything other than seasonal allergies and there was a real defensive posture about that. i think some democrats are going to try to spin this and say, look, this shows how strong she is. think about what she did on friday after she was diagnosed. she attended two fundraisers. she convened a two-hour meeting with a national security team. she held a press conference, which i attended. she also gave an interview to a major television network. so that's what she did after she was diagnosed but you could say it raises questions about judgment clearly the doctors

saying she needed to scale back her schedule. it will feed into republicans raising questions about her health and put pressure on her to release her full medical record. worth noting she's released more information than donald trump but right now this is what folks are going to be focused on and want more information about it and could not come at a worst time for this campaign as the polls are getting a lot tighter. >> kristen welker, thank you very much. >> thank you. good point of transparency. you were going to say? >> i want to agree with all of mark's buckets. i want to focus on the second one about the spectacle. part of what concerns me about this is this is the first woman to be a major nominee of a party. the nominee of a party. there's a sense in which questions around her health play be tied to frailness.

did we get this level of coverage around dick cheney's heart? here she has pneumonia in this moment. i think transparency and all of the points we're making is important but i want us to be very careful the way in which we read hear health and now that reads as a proxy in the way in which we talk about gender. >> i remember jimmy carter collapsed during a race. we would all look horrific if we collapsed. he was running a 5k. the press put it all over the papers suggesting he wasn't strong enough to be president. he was collapsing, et cetera, et cetera. >> just as a matter of debate, i'm for maximum disclosure all the time and in her case because of the trust issues she has, she's always politically in a better place when she discloses more. but there was an interesting debate that broke out about this on twitter among people that

work for barack obama who said, you know, every campaign i've worked on the candidates had pneumonia at some point. it's really common. treatable with antibiotics. what's the standard for when we should have our candidates have to disclose illnesses treatable with antibiotics? the case every time all candidate get ill they take antibiotics have to disclose that to the press? i don't know what i think about that. generally i'm for more disclosure. in her political situation it makes sense. it's an interesting question. >> let's ask the icon school of medicine at mt. sinai. based on what you've seen so far, does the prognosis and the diagnosis of walking pneumonia concern you? >> it's concerning. she's 68 years old. we know so little about what's wrong with her. we don't know if she had a chest x-ray. we don't know if there was

troublesome blood work. to make a prognosis based on a dearth of information is almost impossible. on the other hand for someone who is walking around and going to these events, i can tell you that 9/11 here in the city is very stressful even if you're not standing down at ground zero. it's a tough day for people who live in new york. so she looks like she tried to power through frankly. but in terms of a prognosis, very difficult to say. >> is it a serious diagnosis, walking pneumonia? >> well, it can be based on whether or not a person is healthy in an underlying way. do they have cardiovascular problems? do they have high blood pressure? are they in general poor health? those people who have underlying medical conditions, it can be a serious condition. on the other hand, it's a kind of a run of mill thing that general practitioners see all

the time. people get over it. they go back to work. no big deal. >> what about underlying conditions. she's taking medication. taking blood thinners. does what little we know of her health at 68, would that concern you more as a physician? >> not those this specifically. her blood pressure was reported to be normal blood pressure. that makes me believe she doesn't have any cardiovascular problems or significant cardiovascular problems with her heart. she doesn't have diabetes. those are the types of things i would be very concerned about. she's 68 years old. stuff happens over a lifetime and she's accumulated some dvts, blood clot in her brain, none of that would specifically worry me in terms of the pneumonia. >> okay. there emily senay, thank you very much. >> i'm sure you remember that

image of jimmy carter collapsing. i'm not talking about the killer rabbit. i think a few weeks later when he was jogging jimmy carter collapsing and a lot of people reading way too much into that. jimmy carter extraordinarily healthy even today. add some historical perspective to this. was all of the hyperventilating yesterday from people watching mrs. clinton hyperventilate overboard? >> as with famous jimmy carter image you're talking about, the reason it was important is because it came at a time when there already was a discussion about whether jimmy carter was up to it as president and then suddenly had this image where he was an extraordinarily healthy man running a marathon or long race shouldn't have added concern but it did. in this case hillary clinton has

had a difficult couple of weeks. i think by anybody's judgment. and two things that i have seen in her since i first began covering her many years ago. first, she always pushes herself to the edge of stamina. when she was secretary of state, she had to go to that next country, that next rally, that next event. it's just part of the way she operates. and second, she's always been extraordinarily reserved about any personal information. they didn't let it out at the white house. they didn't let it out at the state department. they're not doing it now. i think that combination of people asking questions about her, pushing herself super hard and not saying much about her personal situation, those came together in this incident. what we can say or what i would say in conclusion is hear hear h health is now a legitimate campaign issue. >> yesterday unfortunately one

of the things that this storyly memorials across the nation about september 11 incredibly moving. what are your thoughts? what's happened with america's foreign policy in the intervening 15 years. >> it was a day of remembrance. i was out on the mall with my family seeing every flag at half-staff. so many markers. i stand back and i look and i have to say the dream that osama bin laden had 15 years ago of a global jihad has been realized. that's the most painful thing to say. in so many ways al qaeda has been crushed, bin laden is dead but his idea that he had on the morning of september 11th in many ways has born fruit. >> we'll talk more about that ahead.

still ahead on j"morning joe," we'll get to hillary clinton's basket of deplorable statements and kellyanne conway is here on set and also congressman mike mccaul and david brooks calls the presidential election a race to the bottom at olympic speed. and as we go to break, as the nation yesterday commemorated the 15th anniversary of 9/11, here is a portion of the song joe wrote for the 10th anniversary of those terror attacks. "reason to believe." ♪ what would you guess about a stranger caress that reminds me of what we used to be ♪ ♪ at the end of the hour when i'm drained of all power i still find a reason to believe ♪ ♪

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you know, to just be grossly

generalistic, you could put half of trump supporters into what i call the basket of deplorables. right? the racist, sexists, islamic phobic. you name it. unfortunately there are people like that. he has lifted them up. he has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people. now have 11 million. he tweets and retweets offensive, hateful, mean spirited rhetoric. some of those folks are irredeemable but thankfully they are not america. >> that was hillary clinton at a new york city fund-raiser friday night seemingly writing off half

of the support donald trump is garnering. clinton went onto say the other half of trump supporters felt left behind in the current economy and by the government and are in search of change. an outcry led clinton to clarify her remarks by saturday afternoon saying "last night i was as she said in the first place grossly generalistic." donald trump hired a major advocate for the alt-right movement. i meant what i said about last night about empathy. many trump supporters are hard working americans who just don't feel like the economy or our political system are working for them. trump responded to clinton's reaction with his own statement calling her unfit and incapable to serve adding isn't it

disgraceful that hillary clinton makes the worst mistake of the political season and instead of owning up to this grotesque attack on american voters she tries to turn it around with a pathetic are rehash of words and insults used in her failing campaign. for the first time her true feelings came out. how can she be president when she has contempt and disdain for so many great americans. >> what do you think of both statements? >> trump's statement is very difficult to wrap my mind around. >> why is that? >> because i think we need to separate politics from the truth. i've been saying on this show for weeks now what does this election suggest about the american electorate. what we do know is 60% of trump supporters believe they have a

negative view of islam. 67% of his supporters believe that we should build a wall or ban muslims from the country. nearly 50% of trump supporters have a negative view of african-americans. over 40% think we're lazy, we're criminal and -- >> there was a poll that was shown after these statements and trump supporters horrifying in every way. but as far as who is lazy and who is this and that. dav david, the week of the south carolina primary, 80% support the ban on muslims entering america. 31% ban homosexuals entering america. 62% support a national data base. 40% support shutting down all mosques in america. 33% say the practice of islam should be illegal.

there are scores of other polls like that. again, it's not 50% but any candidate running against donald trump -- by the way, a lot of republicans were saying similar things back in the fall. >> the numbers show that there is a strain among trump supporters. the reason people have responded to this as a mistake by hillary clinton is characterizing your opponent supporters, americans who are out there getting ready to vote in language like that with basket of deplorables is going to stick and be a sound bite for the rest of the campaign. people will come back with all kinds of numbers. i think clinton was wise herself not to argue the point. she didn't do what you just did. i was wrong to use that language. i think that was probably the smart call. not to show numbers that might

say here's what i meant but to say i was wrong. >> you know, mark halperin, those numbers shown there, the reason i remembered it is because other republicans back wall while trump was moving up, we're going to have to come face to face with this in our party when you have 60% of republicans believing x in these primaries. so do you think what hillary clinton did was calculated? she knew things would blow up but would draw attention to a certain percentage of supporters for donald trump? >> no. >> you think it was a big mistake? >> i think she might have been speaking what she really believes in a way that's not politically acceptable to attack voters that way. i think everybody who disagrees with the position like the ones in that poll have to ask themselves if they would use the word deplorable to characterize the people that have those views.

very uncomfortable thing for the country right now. >> doesn't that play into what we conservatives have been saying about liberals forever that they are just arrogant and condescending and look down their noses at us? >> do you think the people that think mosques should be banned are deplorable? >> i would not call them deplorable. i would say it's a deplorable position and born out of ignorance and as a leader my responsibility would be to talk to that segment of the republican party and tell them we need to keep everybody involved in this. would i call them deplorable? not in a million years. i would say their positions were deplorable and i would try to educate them. >> i had the same attitude about mitt romney's 74% thing. i don't think politicians should be judged in one statement. she needs to explain what she meant. the clinton campaign would say donald trump has said hundreds

of things just as outrageous and he's not being held accountable. >> the 47% remark fit a narrative that was building. i don't think this fits a narrative. if it fits a narrative, it fits a narrative that hillary clinton is the only appropriate candidate and even if you're a republican voting in this election because donald trump has so many hatred fueled policies that are based on such a lack of knowledge that it's deplorable. >> let me be clear. i would call david duke deplorable. i would call people who hold the positions of the alt-right deplorable. folks are experiencing difficult economic times and seen wages flat line. can't imagine a future. that sense has joined with a host of positions that are deplorable. >> we have to say this. we just have to say this. there are also a large number of

americans, maybe 50% of the people who were voting for donald trump who are voting for donald trump because they believe hillary clinton is deplorable. they believe the fact that the fbi passed on indicting her when over 50% of americans believed she deserved to be indicted. the way she handled benghazi. the way she's handled her career. the way she handled herself as secretary of state. what the she did back in the 1990s. we're sitting here looking at that one side of the ledger. the truth is a lot of educated people who are not struggling financially who don't like donald trump say we're voting for donald trump because basically we find hillary clinton deplorable. so it cuts both ways. >> until we see how trump and clinton react to those two things, health and deplorable, we don't know exactly the impact. i can say this in the drudge fox news world that drives a lot of republican turnout, those two

things, her health and that one remark will unify a lot of conservatives and turn them out in a way that are dangerous to her chances to winning. >> i got in trouble yesterday when i talked about this. donald trump has called hillary clinton a bigot over and over again. i've said every time there's no evidence that she's a bigot. i don't think she's a bigot. no question about it. the point i made yesterday which got me in trouble is this statement came close to at least the definition of what people think of as bigotry. she offered a blanket statement for a bunch of people and threw them all into a basket and said they were deplorable. that may or may not meet the dictionary definition of deplorable but to make that kind of a blanket statement about what will likely be 30 million people. >> we just spent ten minutes talking about it while donald trump throughout this campaign has a campaign that's been laced

with racism, insults to gold star families, to women and muslim ban. everything is let go and then he claims that he's not pc and this statement is so horrifying at her lack of being politically correct for one brief nanosecond. everyone get a grip. >> i don't think it's a question of politically correct. when she gave the alt-right speech. it was a fantastic speech to give. call out racists and call out xenophobes and hit donald trump hard when he says things that are racist. it's not a defensible position to write off 30 million people. the reason it's not defensible, because she apologized for it. >> i think it's important that we make a distinction.

will are people idealogically who view hillary clinton in a bad light. she might think she's deplorable for ideological reasons. there's a sense in which that statement was about the alt-right. half of the voters are these folks and went on to lay on what she meant. what she meant or what she was referring to was those folks she talked about on the alt-right. this is what i think -- i do think this. underneath this entire election has been the ugliness of race. the ugliness of racism. unless we acknowledge this in a very honest and direct way -- >> i think 50% is high. i think she made a mistake generalizing. >> which she said. >> again, after 9/11, you know, over 35% of democrats thought

that george bush was inside on the attacks on 9/11. probably the same number if they took polling thought fdr was inside on the attacks of pearl harbor. >> she said it was grossly generalistic. is there one racist or insulting or inappropriate comment that donald trump has made that he apologized for along the way that we talked about for ten minutes? no. >> he offered that blanket apology with he said if there's anybody i ever offended -- >> i think at the end of the day this is much to do about nothing. the trump campaign thinks this is huge. people are going to be hyperventilating about it a lot. we won't be talking about it next week. nobody will remember. >> we'll be right back with much more "morning joe" including some razor tight state polls between trump and clinton. >> these things are close.

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>> here's my prediction. my prediction is it's going to be i don't want to talk about. i feel really bad but people say -- >> people say she's frail. >> if you're kind of frail -- >> so more sadness than anger. >> he will come in sadness. >> hope she's okay. >> bob costas is reporting. he's just all in the back room working. he's a scribbler. he's working. bob reports that he's going to focus on deplorables. >> he would know a lot about it. >> he's a very disciplined and focused -- >> he would know about

statements that are not politically correct. a lot about statements that have insulted people. he's the expert on statements that insult people. >> clinton up 51% to 43%. she has a lead in a matchup when you add mr. aleppo. the latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll show them tight in four battleground states. >> in new hampshire, clinton has a two-point lead 39% to trump's 37%. i was in new hampshire over the weekend. some of the attack ads were really tough. harsh. wow. it seems like a tough race. >> deplorable. >> in nevada, trump leads clinton by single digit 42% to 41%. georgia trump at 44% and clinton

at 42% and johnson at 10% and look at deep red arizona. trump leads by just two points. >> all within the major of error. >> clinton is ahead in florida by two points. 44% to 42%. and in ohio, clinton leads trump by seven points. 46% to 39%. >> so there were a lot of polls there, republicans should be way away in georgia. in arizona. you would expect hillary to do better in nevada and new hampshire. a lot better. it's a tie. >> joining us now, political writer for "the new york times." hello, nick. >> good morning. >> it's a tie.

>> i'm excited that we have tightening polls to bring excitement back to this race. >> you sound very excited. >> i'm not excited by it. >> it's been slow. >> some people are scared. >> it's fascinating. i think it certainly goes back to the question of why is she struggling in her own way while he blows up bridges and ticks off people and insults all groups and perhaps it's because she says things like basket of deplorables one day and insults people who might otherwise vote for her. i don't know. >> how do you explain a state that trump is way ahead, is tied and new hampshire is tied. >> he's not a conventional republican. he's not trying to get the coalition that mitt romney is trying to get. he's looking for different kinds of voters. i think he scrambles the normal calcul calculus.

i think modern republicans and nonwhite voters are going to her in greater numbers than they have to past democrats. he's getting crossover. i think these polls are all interesting and shows the race is close. it's a four-straight race right now. pennsylvania, ohio, north carolina and florida. and those states are ones where -- >> pennsylvania, florida, ohio and -- >> north carolina. >> does trump have to win all four of those? >> his route to 270 without all four is really tough. >> i was going to say, david, all of these polls that we've been reading are from states he has to win. new hampshire, georgia, ohio. you go down the line. florida. this is all trump territory. and yet even in arizona it's tied. >> he's in much more difficulty in the states that ought to be his. he already should have locked some of these states up. he has to spend money in states like florida and even in

georgia. i think that's fascinating. i'm really curious about turnout and i wonder what our experts think. some of these pollsters see a softening in support among younger voters. >> can you hold a second. alex, can we get some experts. >> working on them. >> go ahead. >> so if all of you would speak to the question about turnout, about whether there's softening among the core, constituency supporting clinton in particular. >> this is why i think georgia and new hampshire don't matter. if trump has a chance to win, he has to win those four states. if trump wins ohio, believe me, believe me, he'll win georgia. he's not going to somehow lose georgia if he wins ohio. those red states are close. they show problems he has. if he has a chance to win, he has to win those four. >> you're saying he has to win pennsylvania, florida, ohio, and

north carolina to win. >> the next most likely path involves wearing six states where he's currently behind. >> if he didn't win pennsylvania, that's the most likely one for him not to win. he could put together a thing where he won new hampshire and nevada and there's a way to do it. it's a complicated map for him. unlikely if he doesn't win pennsylvania. here's to david's question. this is an important thing. if you look at the abc news/"the washington post" poll, it's clear that trump voters are more enthusiastic right now than clinton voters. part of the reason she's doing why with registered voter is because of that. right now. that may change between now and election day. they're not as enthusiastic. if johnson and stein collapse, she's a much better position. >> you know who is in energetic and excited? nick has brought it to the set today. tell me, nick, why are these

races tied? why are they so close? why is georgia so close? >> same question you asked me ten seconds ago. partly we have these two third-party candidates who are pulling unexpected voters. >> who is gary johnson pulling from? >> conservatives that don't want to vote for trump. people that think he's too toxic. i think also if you looked at those polls more closely, i suspect you would find that trump polls from some working class whites who might vote on democratic in some place. you'll see collapsing support around suburban white college educated people. jill stein will pull lefties. you see almost in the polls that you're reciting everyone is below 50%. >> amazing. >> scrambles in weird ways. as you were saying, you can't win ohio and lose georgia.

it's not going to happen. >> nick, thank you very much for bringing much needed excitement to the set. >> is that better? >> i wanted to give you a second chance. >> coming up on "morning joe" -- >> given the performances, plural this week, of donald trump, are you still convinced that he's the best choice for national security issues? thank you. >> thanks. thanks a lot. look, i've supported the nominee of the party. next question. look, honestly. i'm not here to talk about donald trump. >> and he's not going to. >> why aren't any republican leaders here to talk about

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coming up at the top of the hour, diagnosed with pneumonia just hours after hillary clinton left a 9/11 memorial service the campaign is finally explaining what was behind her departure but should they have disclosed it sooner? >> what i find out through this process is most candidates on these long brutal campaigns end up with walking pneumonia. it makes sense. you don't sleep. you don't eat well. you shake a zillion hands. people are coughing and sneezing on you. it's not really surprising, is it? >> we almost louis on one of those things. donald trump's campaign manager kellyanne conway is in studio and mike mccaul says it's a false narrative to think of vladimir putin as a friend. how he's breaking with his party's nominee on russia next on "morning joe." how can good paying jobs disappear?

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>> my people are so smart. the polls say i have the most loyal people. i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters, okay. it's incredible. she's being so protected she could walk into this arena right now and shoot somebody with 20,000 people watching right smack in the middle of the heart and she wouldn't be prosecuted, okay. that's what's happened. that is what's happened to our

country. i never thought i would see the day when this is happening to our country. >> you know why -- >> who talks this way without their mother getting very upset. >> that day, thank god, has not come to this country. because i'm thinking if hillary clinton went into that arena and shot somebody in the middle of the heart, if she did that, i think you could probably go inside and just look at maybe some of the demographics if you go and track -- >> that's the republican nominee for president of the united states. >> we have with us and i'm very excited about this, we have dr. lawrence o'donnell who told us the first system of a heart attack is. >> the most common first symptom of heart disease for men is death. that's the most common first symptom. >> he's going to talk about this

more tonight. >> what are you talking about? >> when you wonder about someone's health and you want a picture of your health, the true answer is we don't know. we can give you these documents but anyone sitting here could be dead by the end of today from natural causes. >> thank you, lawrence. >> donald trump set the bar so low that you can follow up with that statement and it actually sounds better. >> we have eddie here. >> yes. eddie is here. chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university. heilemann is here. columnist and associate editor for "the washington post." david is with us. and joining the discuss, host of "the last word" he just had the last word, lawrence o'donnell. i'm not sure i want to you say for. >> we were talking about the health thing. i was explaining during the break why i actually don't care. i don't care about candidates'

health. >> you don't care about donald trump's? >> no. fdr in his last campaign for respect was dying during the campaign. guess what? he died. and when he died -- >> so we probably should have known he was dying because this guy from missouri had to drop the bomb. >> here's the thing. if you asked fdr voters what would they have done if any knew he was dying, they probably would have voted for him and not one of him when he died was out there saying i wish he told me that so i wouldn't have voted for him. it's why the choice of vice president is important. truth of the matter is that any of us could die at any moment. >> on that happy note, we have people talking about getting shot in the heart. dying any moment. >> why would he say that? what a horrible thing to say. did the audience applaud?

i mean -- >> i don't know why they were so quiet about that. >> what a horrific thing to say. >> hillary clinton canceled a california trip after falling ill during the 9/11 memorial service. we just learned that she's going to appear at a fund-raiser via teleconference. she was diagnosed with pneumonia days earlier but that was only explained after a morning rife with speculation. >> clinton joined donald trump during a ceremony in lower manhattan on a warm day. after more than an hour there, she left abruptly appearing on unsteady. press was left in the dark with the campaign mum on where the democratic nominee was going or what happened. video of her entering the van showed her unsteady. she leaned on a post and at one point her legs seemed to buckle. at 11:00 a.m. her campaign did put out a statement saying in part she felt overheated so she departed to go to her daughter's apartment and is feeling much

better. the campaign says she even played with her grandkids there before appearing in front of the awaiting press. >> let me ask john heilemann this question. john, i know i'm going to get texts from friends and family members that are going to say to me we told you she was sick. we told you there was a problem. you're part of a huge -- she coughed. she coughed. fine. this, that, the other. but let's be serious about it. there are a lot of trump supporters out there that think the press is conspireing to cover up some massive health problem that hillary clinton has. what does the press do to prove that they're going after aggressively as they would if it were somebody else? >> i think the press should be asking for both candidates, hillary clinton and donald trump, to meet something like the historical standard for health record disclosure that most presidential nominees have met in the past.

>> since when? not since 1960. after that. >> how about that. we'll do this. not this century. >> you knew nothing about fdr's hol health. >> we're in the 21st century. >> i would be happy going back to kennedy. kennedy didn't disclose. say 20 years, 30 years, whatever it is. >> this century. go. >> let's have the press argue aggressively for trying to get the candidates to do more than they currently have done which is not disclose much. hillary clinton has disclosed more about her health than donald trump has. it's incumbent on both of them to give us greater access to their health records and i think that the reality is that anybody at this table ever had walking pneumonia? i have. i've had something happen to me while having walking pneumonia similar to what happened to her.

you know, i passed out because i tried to power through. so i look at that and i totally recognizable phenomenon. however, she had a situation that occurred back in december of 2012. we don't know except for what we heard from the doctor's letter we have seen, we don't know much about that. >> bill clinton this weekend said it took her longer to recover from that concussion than expected. >> so to clean this up, to clear it up, and i say this is incumbent on donald trump as much as hillary clinton, if they want to have trust of the american people, they should be more transparent. >> david, by historical standards, the two candidates both when it comes to their health are far under the bar. you're never going to get donald trump to release his tax records. you're never going to get him to release his medical record. he's just not. >> you're never going to get him to admit the president was born in america. >> so what does that leave the

media with? >> well, if the candidates don't give the additional information about their health, then we start digging. and you've already begun to see that. there was some good reporting in the paper this morning on donald trump looking at his finances and looking at the deals he's done and looking at the implied tax situation. you have seen some of that. you'll see a lot more. so i think the candidates may try to stiff the media in entirely legitimate requests on behalf of the voters of half of the public. these are things we do need to know. if the candidates say no, we'll keep reporting. >> so let's go. we'll move now to basket of deplorables. let's play the clip for lawrence o'donnell. she said this at a fund-raiser friday night. >> to be closely generalistic, you could put half of trump supporters into what i call the basket of deplorables.

right? [ applause ] the racist, sexists, homophobic, xenophobic. you name it. unfortunately there are people like that. and he has lifted them up. he has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people. now have 11 million. he tweets and retweets. offensive, hateful, mean spirited rhetoric. now some of those folks, they are irredeemable but thankfully they are not america. >> we can talk about what a terrible mistake this was. i have to say i think it was all calculated. i think i stand alone. i think this was a trump move, which is you say something that

the media and your opponent is going to think is outrageous. it stays in the press. every day it stays in the press it has everyone going, okay, let's look at -- put up that poll. let's see. let's look back at the south carolina poll. are they really deplorable because i don't know where they are. let's look at the data and see if they're deplorable. if you go back to south carolina, you see that 80% of trump voters supported banning muslims entering america. 62% demanded national data base. 40% wanted to shutdown all mosques in america. a third said islam should be illegal. >> look at the second one. 31% support a ban on homosexuals entering the united states. hillary clinton knew by saying that she would get the blowback and then this sort of information would follow and

just like trump you create a controversy that allows the battle to be fought on your grounds for the next three or four days. >> unlike trump, she does a form of retraction of the statement saying i wish i hadn't said half. so whenever i see a politician -- that's a doub ind they wish they hadn't said it that way. >> she used the same exact words in her apology. this is grossly generalistic. i apologize. i was being grossly generalistic. >> you're right. very first thing i went to when she said this was the polls. the majority believe, majority of trump supporters believe president obama is not a citizen. a majority of trump supporters believe president obama is muslim. >> not that there's anything wrong with that. >> these are people that can't separate fact from fiction.

she rattled off a bunch of deplorable ideas. there's no argument that the ideas she was rattling off are deplorable. >> but in the first ten minutes of this hour, we have run two statements that caused controversy. one was just rude and kind of low brow ugly thing to say. donald trump is not apologizing. >> the shot in the heart thing? >> yes. and the second thing, we have picked apart for many minutes now over the course of two hours and she's already apologized for it. >> the donald trump hillary clinton can shoot people is nothing less than mental illness. no politician can ever suggest that there's an american voter out there who is in any way indecent or maybe not quite smart enough to be trusted with a vote. >> bill clinton cautioned that donald trump's vow to make america great again might mean something more ominous for minority groups who face discrimination from an earlier

era. speaking last week at a rally in orlando, clinton said he remembered the good old days and knew exactly what trump's message meant. >> i'm actually old enough to remember the good old days and they weren't all that good in many ways. that message i give you america great again is if you're a white southerner, you know exactly what it means, don't you? what it means is i give you the economy you had 50 years ago and i'll move you back up on the social totem pole and other people down. hillary clinton was to take the totem pole down and let us all go forward together. >> it's so great. i love that bill clinton called out all politicians. past and present. that used what he considers to be a racist term. i think you have to reexamine the historical record of every

single politician that ever used that term based on what bill clinton said this weekend, mika. let me write that down here. i'm going to write a column. what a racist thing to say. >> bill clinton said himself back in 1991 at the announcement of his candidacy for president. >> i believe that together we can make america great again and with your help, your heart, your devotion and your efforts, we can build a community of hope that will inspire the world. >> i know what he's talking about there. you know what the problem is? he's a white guy from the south. he's talking about making america great. i was there. i was there, okay. it wasn't that great, okay. all right. that's horrible.

he meant the same thing donald trump meant. >> joining us -- >> hold on a second. seeing that clip of bill clinton in 1991, doesn't that show us just this journey continues. >> for sure. >> a straight line from '91 to '16. >> bill clinton is coming out of dlc. he's engaging in triangleation. >> joining us from chappaqua, andrea mitchell. tough weekend for the clinton campaign. where do we stand? >> in 1991, bill and hillary clinton could not have afforded to live here in chappaqua. america is a lot greater than it

was back in 1991. all that stuff that happened after they left the white house. look, this was so botched. this was so mishandled. the issue of transparency. this only reinforces all of the conspiracy theories. we've all been trying to fact check and pointing out that there's nothing wrong with her. i'm on the campaign with her. aside from that cough. she has more energy than i do or half of the press corps which is a lot younger than her. the fact is they have only made things worse because they've helped donald trump and rudy giuliani and all of the others who are making such an issue out of her health. trump so far has not talked about it. he's been smart enough to listen to advisers probably to stay quiet while your opponent is missing their own campaign up. the fact they didn't say anything on friday when they had

an affirmative obligation to the public through us after telling us that the cough in cleveland on labor day was just seasonal allergies, which is what she thought. after she had an exam on friday morning, they had an affirmative obligation to tell us about the diagnosis of pneumonia. and then the secrecy yesterday and for an hour half the press corps, protective press pool, the pool of reporters, which is supposed to be with her just for this kind of emergency, they are kept back at the ceremony. they don't know that she's -- they're not told she's gone to chelsea's apartment. they're brought there so we can see her coming out looking very spry and hugging the little girl and then eight hours after this first happened they finally tell us about the diagnosis of pneumonia that occurred on friday. i'm sorry. there is an obligation not written, not in law, but there's an obligation and donald trump is even worse than she is in terms of telling us anything about his medical history.

we've got a lot of problems with both campaigns. >> no doubt about that. >> thank you, andrea. david, i want to show you financial times headline. warning to syrian rebels amid rare show of u.s. russian unity talk about this cease-fire that is coming up. do we have any reason to believe that it's going to bring some bit of relief to the people of aleppo and the entire country? >> we have hope. i don't know if i would go further to reason. in a few hours when the muslim holiday begins, a cease-fire is supposed to begin in syria. if it lasts seven days, then the u.s. and russia will begin jointly targeting isis and al qaeda positions in syria. working together on the target sets. it's hard to imagine the u.s. and russia doing it. and then after that happens in

theory, the syrian air force will stop bombing, which would be a huge change in these contested areas. there are lots of reasons to think this won't hold over the weekend it was a mess. almost always the case before cease-fires. you have to give secretary kerry credit for sticking with this and getting finally the deal he's been working on really since last february. >> all right. we'll be following that as well. lawrence o'donnell, thank you for being on the show. >> donald trump must be proud of john kerry's deal making. >> he has great things to say about kerry. >> david, thank you as well. still ahead on "morning joe," the chairman of the homeland security committee joins the table and kellyanne conway joins us here on set. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. hero. he's not a war hero, he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured ok.

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[ applause ] if you can't tell the difference between leadership and dictatorship, you won't face a fifth great civics exam. >> tim, when donald trump and i said that the small and bullying president of russia was a strong leader on the world stage, that wasn't an endorsement of vladimir putin. that was an indictment of the weak effectless leadership of this president and your running mate. >> one thing you can certainly say putting these two next to each other, republicans now how to give their vice presidents better sound systems. >> donald trump came under criticism this weekend. an open letter published saying

that trump cannot serve as commander in chief if he embraces putin. joining us now, chairman of the house homeland security committee, michael mccaul of texas. >> before we talk about anything, let's talk about the remembrance yesterday at ground zero. talk about how moving that was. what you saw. >> very moving as always. very good turnout. it's the first time i've seen both presidential candidates show up to something like this. every new york police chief was there. when they read the names and at that takes as you know about four hours to read 3,000 names, you get the gravity of that moment 15 years ago. >> let's talk about syria. right now obviously what's been going on in syria and aleppo has been a nightmare and we have not responded quickly enough through the years.

what should we do? what else can we do as a nation to bring peace to that region? >> well, i think we've been put in a bad position. i think four years of not making a decision is a decision in and of itself. russians are in there now. so how do we deal with a very complex foreign policy civil war situation. the russian interests are different from ours in terms of propping up syria from their point of view and alliance from iran. one thing we share is going against isis. they haven't demonstrated that capability. >> they've been doing assad's bidding. >> gone against rebel forces to help assad. if they would join us in targeting isis, that would be a very positive step. i don't really trust the russians and i think peace through strength that reagan talked about and trust but verify. look, in theory it would be a

great step forward but we're still a little bit cautious about it. >> is vladimir putin one of the most dangerous men on the world stage when it comes to opposing american interest? >> in terms of naked aggression. he sees weakness and that invites aggression. mr. putin has -- crimea. he's aggressive in cyberattacks especially on our election system going into november. i think he's a very dangerous man. once kbg always kbg. who do you want to stare him down in a diplomatic negotiation? >> do you think the republican nominee fully understands what you just said? >> i spoke with him yesterday. i urged caution when it comes to this man. he respects him in terms of his strength being a strong man. i think mr. trump envisions

himself in that light as well. urged caution to not think that we can embrace him. mr. putin is not our friend. your father knows this very well. >> i mean with all due respect, does donald trump understand that? >> his advisers do. that's important to note. he's being advised by people like myself and others that this is not -- look, if you can work with him to take out isis -- >> you say he doesn't but advisers do so that's a circle of safety around somebody who doesn't get it? >> i think he has respect for the man. respect that he thinks he's in a better position than hillary clinton to sit in the room with him and stare him down. >> based on what you know, the talk of the russians trying to interfere with our election, what would they do? >> i can't -- i'm not at liberty to go into much of this. it's in the classified space. there are the allegations out there that they are attempting to undermine our democracy

hitting not just democratic party but the republican party. >> a threat they tried to change the result by faking more votes to one side? >> it's unclear at this point in time what their motive is. we have seen russia in the past demonstrate a capability to influence and mess with elections in europe and so we're very concerned about these latest allegations. >> what do you think of the allegation that vladimir putin is somehow playing donald trump and manipulating him by flattering him? >> the response to that would be they hit both parties. it's not like they singled out the democrats. they singled out republicans as well. we're not sure what the motivation is other than potentially to undermine our way of life. our democratic system in elections. >> all right. chairman mike mccaul, thank you very much. i appreciate your candor. >> we appreciate you coming on. >> thanks. coming up, donald trump's campaign manager kellyanne

conway joins us live to talk about their strategy going forward and how they plan to respond to the basket of deplorable comments from hillary clinton. that's just ahead. when you have something you love, you want to protect it. at legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. with an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. legal help is here. or keeping a hotel's guests cuttinconnected.i to 35,000 fans...

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over the last few months donald trump has been critical of hillary clinton's health and has questioned her fitness to be president. >> she'll stand at the teleprompter and spin around a couple times. always a very short speech. then she gets off the stage.

she goes back home. she goes to sleep. to win trade in our country, you need tremendous physical and mental strength and stamina. hillary clinton doesn't have that strength or stamina. believe me. you know it. and they know it. and everybody knows it. she didn't go to louisiana. she didn't go to mexico. she was invited. she doesn't have the strength or the stamina to make america great again. believe me. >> so is he going to continue saying those sort of things in light of what happened this past weekend? he certainly hasn't yet today. but his campaign manager kellyanne conway joins us next. we're back in just a minute with more "morning joe." at safelite, we know how busy life can be.

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>> i really just don't know. i hope she gets well soon. the coughing fit was a week ago. i assume that was pneumonia also. i would think it would have been. something is going on. i hope she gets well and gets back on the trail and we'll be seeing her at the debate. >> so health is an issue now, right? >> i think it's an issue. in fact, this last week i took a physical. i'll be releasing when the numbers come in. hopefully they'll be good. i think they're going to be good. i feel great. when the numbers come in, i'll be releasing very, very specific numbers. >> that was donald trump earlier this morning. joining us now, donald trump's campaign manager kellyanne conway. very good to have you on the show. >> thank you for having me. >> so donald had a physical last week? >> yes, he did.

end of last week. >> when are we going to hear about it? >> we're told we'll get the results from the doctor this week. as he just said on a different network, joe, he'll release those. it's important. >> do you know what specifically we're going to learn about him? blood pressure and -- >> i don't know that. i'm not a doctor. none of them are my patients so i don't go there. i can tell you there being out on the campaign trail with him and you know having been a successful candidate, joe, it's just so mentally and physically exhausting. i look at the schedule for this week. we'll be in seven different swing states, five or six rallies, fundraisers, roundtables, it's gruelling but people expect you to go where they are. if you're going to do fundraisers all the time or speech here and there it doesn't work for voters. in your hometown of pensacola, he had an unbelievable crowd. people up to the rafters. whatever the capacity is, 12,000, 13,000 people, they were there and overcrowd people of 8,000 or 10,000 outside that couldn't get in. i think these crowds matter.

people say it doesn't matter. it does matter. >> since you've been around campaigns, you understand how gruelling this is and you can understand let's say what happened to hillary clinton the other day. because it is so gruelling if someone gets woozy and starts to pass out and has to be righted, it's not really shocking given the schedule day in and day out? >> i would echo mr. trump's statement that i hope she's feeling better and gets back on the trail soon. what i learned this weekend were two things about hillary clinton. she's had a very bad 48 hours. one, she's still not transparent. she won't open herself up to the press. the nonsense she respects what do you by having this phony press availability on the plane last week and moment you need to be with her, 90 minutes of radio silence. took the entire day to get a diagnosis that she had received days earlier and i think it's important because, joe, it ended up the number one story yesterday was hillary clinton

falling in front of that van and then ultimately her pneumonia diagnosis. the number one story should have been 9/11. >> so donald says "something is going on." do you think something is going on with her health? >> that's a lay person saying as llions of americans will, what we know is her doctor diagnosed her with pneumonia and is on antibiotics. being around him and being his campaign manager, i see the type of energy and stamina that you need long-term. >> does she have that from what you've seen? >> i think anybody who runs for president does at that point. at some point, joe. i guess my question -- second thing i learned about her is she feels so comfortable to tell a bunch of money fat cats on wall street what she really thinks of people. one of the most candid moments for hillary clinton came friday night when she actually -- we got her true feelings about what she thinks about tens of millions of americans. that's offensive to me.

he and mike pence were at a fair in ohio last week where there were probably 85,000 people there. ten deep just to see them. are the military that support him by 20 points, are these the deplorables? people i saw at the fair deplorables? sticking people into categories is what we shouldn't do. >> she meant people that support the muslim ban and sexist and racist and go against the basic tenants and morales that our country are based on. it came off wrong and using the word half was incorrect. we're still waiting to hear your candidate say that he thinks that president was born in this country and there's a long list of things that he has said that he has not apologized for that really are deplorable. how do you confront that and then find yourself able to call out hillary clinton on something that she actually has apologized for when your candidate is not

accountable for anything he says, not one thing. quite frankly on september 11th weekend talked about hillary clinton shooting someone in the heart. is that okay? >> he was using that as an example of what she gets by with by the media because she treats them as second-class citizens. what's not okay is everything he has said has been vetted and talked about on this show and elsewhere probably hundreds of thousands of times. what's not okay is for hillary clinton to malign the character and the intention of millions of people and then pretend she's apologizing by repeating the same criticisms. she could said i'm sorry if i offended anyone or to coin a phrase in north carolina last month, i regret causing personal pain. she said i shouldn't have said half. she's quibbling with the numbers. she's not apologizing to hard working americans for calling them these terrible insults. the problem for hillary clinton is when you see her in her own

words, when you see her yesterday and when you see her on friday night in front of the people that were laughing and shame on them as well by the way who were laughing. they think it's so funny. when you see her where she can't go blame the right wing conspiracy, that's hillary clinton. i'm working for a brilliant man. she's reading scripted words and they call it a gaff. she said it before. >> we talk about energy and stamina to be president. what about the knowledge? it seems like a lot of what donald trump says is not based on knowledge. i just ask the chairman of the house homeland security committee republican congressman michael mccaul after he stated a list of things of terrible things about vladimir putin, if donald trump truly understood those things and his answer was his advisers do. and then he doubled down on it. does your candidate have the knowledge to be president? >> yes, he does. i was with him yesterday -- >> does he know anything about russia?

>> yes, he does. >> what exactly does he know? >> he knows a lot about russia. he knows enough that when he's president we won't get pushed around and to say that when he's president, if vladimir putin and other people want to join in stopping isis which killed 33,000 people, isis and its predecessors in the last 12 years, 80% of those deaths came in the last three years, the birth and growth of isis happened on president obama and secretary clinton's watch. there's no question. if we can get someone that's going to help stop that advance, hillary clinton referred to them as our determined enemies. what does that mean? we're playing them in a soccer match? what is a determined enemy? they are savage murderers. they kill people on our soil and abroad. i would not underestimate donald trump in these debates. you saw that in the commander in chief forum last week where all of the polls including your own nbc poll said he won that debate. people want to attack matt lauer. he didn't set up the private e-mail server.

he didn't lie about it. he certainly didn't vote for the war in iraq. she has a lot of explaining to do. >> the doctor who previously testified on mr. trump's health, is he the one who conducted his physical last week? >> i wasn't present when he had his physical. >> mr. trump feels it's very important for candidates for president to be very forthcoming with their health and feels great. >> what standard of disclosure are you looking for? as much as previous nominees have put out? >> you would have to ask the doctor that. i'm not a doctor. i'm not sure what the doctor will reveal. >> do you believe in the previous standards of disclosure by john mccain, mitt romney, barack obama or something short of that? >> maybe short of that. i would have to look at what they revealed. i have to tell you i have never studied their medical records and what they disclosed.

as you saw this weekend and particularly yesterday, it's incredibly important to be forthcoming if you have a diagnosis of pneumonia be honest when you say you're overheating. we wish her well. we're glad that he'll be back on the campaign trail. we're sorry she had to cancel a couple fundraisers today. that probably won't hurt much. >> given that you're making the case for transparency and donald trump will put forward some of his medical records on the basis of this physical, mike pence put out his tax returns. why has donald trump not put out his tax returns. don't say audit. there's no reason he couldn't put them out. >> there are some. >> what would be the reason? >> the reason is he was told by his accountants and lawyers do not release taxes while under

you h audit. he said he'll reveal his tax returns. he'll release his tax returns if we can get his hands on the 33,000 e-mails that are deleted and i'll throw in 17,000 or so that never got to inspected general. >> after the audit is completed -- >> what about the deductions? that wouldn't be problem with the audit. >> it's under audit. the entire tax return. are we going to change the subject from the fact that hillary clinton disrespects your profession so much and doesn't give you a straight answer -- >> how does putting out his annual income for a set number of years, charitable donations, how would that be a problem? >> i'll take that under advisement and discuss it with the boss. it's clear what do you know. look around. he employes tens of thousands o people. he's a job creator. many women have been promoted through the trump organization through the years. many countries of origin

represented in his employee base. >> who is changing the topic now? >> people want to know in addition to being called deplorable, they want to know what your record is and his record is somebody to creates jobs. you're asking what his income is and i'm telling you what people care about. they care about their incomes. why is wage stagnation such a chronic problem in this country and how in the world can hillary clinton with a straight face really run on eight more years of the fact that for two presidencies now we've had wage stagnation. that's what people care about. >> you've been around for quite a few elections. we were trying to figure out earlier this morning just how tight the races are in states and it's breaking both ways. georgia, a lot closer than it should be for a republican. i would say nevada. a lot closer than it should be for a democratic. new hampshire. a lot closer. hillary should be well ahead in new hampshire. arizona. donald should be well ahead in arizona. why do we see and state after state after state the map being

scrambled. sometimes to donald's benefit. sometimes to hillary's benefit. >> in my view you have two phenomenally spectacularly celebrity-like candidates running. in other words people are really wondering what's going to come next? what will i learn in the debates? what will i see in ads? what will candidates themselves say, good, bad or ugly. it's a spillover from the primaries in this way. in the primaries you saw bernie sanders and you saw 17 republican candidates where this was the year where voters in both parties said i will not be told how to think, who can win and who can't win. you had sanders end up winning 22 states and millions of voters. you had the so-called electable ones, jeb bush or scott walker or marco rubio not win because voters said you play this game with me every four years and you tell me who can win two years before the election and then i have to stop and just stop and

support that person. that's not free market. i think this year electricity has replaced electability. people do not feel like they have to make a solid decision yet. i have to say the number i look at all the time is hillary clinton's number in most of these states and certainly nationwide is sort ofik 42, 44, 46, 43, 45. why and how is that? $200 million in paid ads and other campaign activities by her and her super pacs. she doesn't have 65% of women. that's a number we should look at. she's not at 51% and staying there. >> both of them are hovering up and down. we seem to be stuck in the low 40s. it's going to be a close race. >> kellyanne conway. thank you so much. >> we appreciate it. >> still ahead on "morning joe," we go to the man derby. >> we'll be right back. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. he's a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot.

donald trump is a phony, a fraud. he's not a serious adult. i can't vote for donald trump given the things that he said. trump should not be supported. i believe he's disqualified himself to be president. i just cannot support donald trump.

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soccer analyst and host, roger, the darby. manchester. >> start talking. >> fantastic sporting spectacle. manchester united, manchester city. think red sox, yankees. but stuffed into one city with aaron burr managing one city and alexander hamilton, they really hated each other. both teams perfect until this game.

it would be man chaster city who would take the first blood. the ginger-haired wizard. they win that battle every time, royal right, joe. >> and he controlled the match. he was man of the match. >> a phenomenal, the best belgian in action. city would soon score again. it was kevin again. he mesmerized the defense. 19 years of old, pounlsed. look at that finish. instinctual. he's like nigerian garoppo garoppolo. >> that's what mika was telling me before. >> i don't understand a word. >> and then the manchester side found a way back in the game, the new goalkeeper. if he had a baby with chuck norris and he was swedish. almost giving the game away.

this is the worst since gary johnson on your show last week. >> awful. a red card right there. that's a red card. >> it wasn't given. it was a thunderous game. >> the thing is, inside, every bit as loud in tuscaloosa as manchester, but it's outside, in the pubs, the life. day in and day out. they live this 365 days out of the year. it really is religion. >> we were just lucky that you came back alive, mika. joe spent the weekend with a basket of deplorables. >> a real one. oh, my gosh. >> incredible city. i'm shocked by the turnaround. you expect it to be the manchester, the smiths in 1987, 1988. it's an incredible city. like liverpool. >> absolutely. the greatest northern city. manchester possibly the greatest city. >> but the turnaround has been amazing.

>> playing leicester city, the winners last year. liverpool dreaming of their own, the first in 26 years. look at this guy. can't keep his glasses on. he has his team playing. look at this one. the chairman used to say hit the ping-pong ball as if it was the head of your capitalist enemy. >> they have kind of turned it around. >> a remarkable human being. but for leicester city, like cinderella at 12:00. the title has turned into a pumpkin, but the fans don't care. they're playing with -- >> all right, roger, thank you. we'll be watching men in blazers this afternoon at 5:30 eastern. >> and i'll give you my tax returns if you want them. >> thank you so much. i appreciate that. >> i'm lying, i won't. >> okay. much more on the transparency question surrounding hillary clinton's health scare, including whether we would have learned about her pneumonia had she not falling. you're watching "morning joe." you'll never walk alone.

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how are you feeling? >> it's fall. it's almost fall. >> feeling okay? >>ious, i am. >> everybody okay? nobody going to fapt on us? >> it's monday, september 12th. stop it. >> anybody? oh, come on. >> come on. >> come on. it's not like we're talking about a death in the family. you all don't have to be so -- >> i'm woozy. >> they're journalists. >> i'm woozy 85% of the time. >> when you fall back like that, we all know what it has to do

with. i don't have to wait for 12 hours from your people. >> full transparency on that matter. >> every day. >> welcome to "morning joe." we have manager editors of bloomberg politics and co-hosts of with all due respect. mark halperin and john heilemann. the chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university, and columnist for "time" magazine, and in washington, columnist and associate editor for the "washington post," david ignatius. >> let's just right to it, so people don't have to wait the whole three hours. >> oh, okay. >> i had a huge democratic supporter call me yesterday afternoon. said it's over. it's over. >> oh, come on. >> it's over. she fainted. trump's going to be -- i'm like, calm down, cowboy. and i went back and looked at it. you know, it doesn't look great. doesn't look great.

but it's over? the campaign is over because she fainted? i mean, i know there are a lot of conspiracy theorists and this is going to feed into it, but video doesn't look good, but i tell you what. i wake up at 4:00 in the morning every day. i have been doing it for a decade. a lot of times we work until 10:00, 11:00 at night. there's some times where i'm walking downstairs and, you know, very active guy. you know, i have to stop for a second and grab a handrail. you do that every day, you do whathe's been doing every day. i'm not arguing her case for her. it's just, for people who sit back in their armchairs all day watching cable news, saying, oh, how could somebody do that? when you think about in january, what was she doing? debating bernie sanders every night on cnn. they had those town hall meetings. you're like, one of those a week would kill most people. she's been doing it nonstop. so to take this moment and say, oh, it proves that she's unfit

to be president of the united states, it's just -- i'm sorry. it's stupid. and i'm sure there are a lot of my republican brethren who would insist or who would agree with me, too. it's just, it's just not all that. maybe, i mean, she needs to release all of her medical records, right? >> sure. >> we need to see if there's a bigger problem with the concussion. but just faint. i will tell you, you know, you have seen me. you know, i do prohibition, you know, and i'm up there playing and sweating, and once a show, because i have been up since 4:00. it's like 10:00 at night. i have to close my eyes, stop, and i say lean back on your heels so if you pass out, you will fall into the drums. >> what's the difference with donald trump? he doesn't actually do work behind the scenes. >> i want to see, because what i want is when i fall over backwards, i want a rim shot. i want my head, just like that. >> okay, so let's go through

what happened. >> you're right, though. she's work, wurx, work. donald trump sits in his office, makes phone calls, how are we doing? having a good time. a little different. >> let's dougo through what happened and then go around the table. i think you bring up a good point and i have seen that happen. having said that, we don't know. i think the campaign's reaction has been a little frustrating. hillary clinton has canceled a trip that was set for today and tomorrow in california. after falling ill during a 9/11 remembrance ceremony yesterday. last night, her campaign revealed she had been diagnosed with pneumonia days earlier, but that was only explained after a morning rife with speculation. clinton yoined donald trump during a ceremony in lower manhattan on a warm day, but after more than an hour there, she left abruptly, appearing unsteady. all the while, the press was left in the dark, with the campaign mum on where the democratic nominee was going or what had happened. but video of her entering a van

with help of the secret service showed she was unsteady and clearly required support. she appeared to lean on a post and at one point, her legs seemed to buckle. at 11:00 a.m., her campaign put out a statement saying in part, during the ceremony, she felt overheated so she departed to go to her daughter's apartment and is feeling much better. the campaign says she even played with her grandkids there before appearing in front of the awaiting press, posing for a photo with a young girl, hopping back in her van. >> how are you feeling, secretary clinton? are you feeling better? >> yes. thank you. very much. >> clinton then headed home to chappaqua but left the press pool in the dust once more. left the city 90 minutes behind her motorcade, then last night, her personal physician revealed in a statement, quote, secretary clinton has been experienced a cough related to allergies on friday during follow-up evaluation, her prolonged cough,

she was diagnosed with pneumonia. she was put on antibialtices and advised to rest and modify her schedule. at this morning' event, she became overheated and dehydrated. she is now rehydrated and recovering nicely. >> mark halperin, tell us. what's your take on this? >> i think there are three buckets we can put this in. >> we like buckets. >> these are his buckets. can we get a graphic for this? bucket number one. >> legitimate public concerns with both candidates. they health, their age, their lack of transparency. >> and they're both -- >> both transparent. >> their lack to have a protective pool with them. one of these people will be elejted president in january. two is the freak show aspect of this. and the degree to which this is made into the normal carnival and negativity. and then lastly, there's the

politics of it. i think until we hear how hillary clinton handles both the health issue and the buckets of deplorables and donald trump, how he handles them, we don't know where the stories are going. they will define the first part of the weekend in a big way. >> those are a basket of deplorables. >> john heilemann? >> i agree with all that. >> are you going to add a basket. >> sorry? >> are you going to add a basket, a bucket? >> i think that you can't be stressed enough. this has been a long history of debate and litigation in the small "l" sense of the word over what the standards of disclosure should be in presidential campaigns and over nominees. it takes on greater weight when you're talking about naunlnys in this case who are both, who are older. >> there are no rules this year, are there? taxes or health. >> there should be rules. >> there are none. >> but there have never been ruled. there have been former conventions that people comply

to. both candidates, hillary clinton has disclosed a little more about her health than donald trump has. both of them, by historic standards, have disclosed very little. i think it's really -- i mean, the taxes is an issue i have been banging on about with trump for months and months, but it's now incumbent upon both candidates. donald trump is going to go on dr. oz this week and talk about his personal health regimen. we need to have them go at this point, both sides, just go completely open. >> just show us the records. show us the records on the health care, and really, seriously, at this point, i don't need to veer off course, but it's relevant. what's going on between trump and vladimir putin? why does he show up on putin's tv network? why does he continue to just shock even republican supporters like he did in the matt lauer interview, talking about his relationship with putin? what is going on? is there a financial link there? is he loaning him money? what is the linkage there? >> i think it's just dumb. i think he has no idea what he's

saying. probably worse. >> we don't know that because he won't release his taxes. >> right. >> mika, can i ask you a question? do you think as someone running for president, if they get pneumonia, they have an obligation to disclose? >> absolutely. the issue, you know, how much is the campaign going to stumble and leave people down the untrustworthy, you know, lane. because we just, we need transparency from this candidate. we need press conferences. we need everything to be as transparent as possible given the legacy, the clinton legacy. >> i think -- i won't agree with all of mark's buckets. i'm going to focus on the second one about the spectacle. and part of what concerns me about this is that, you know, this is the first woman to be a major nominee of a party. the nominee of a party. there's a sense in which questions around her health may be tied to questions around fragility, frailness.

i'm sitting here thinking, you know, did we get this level of coverage around dick cheney's heart? and here she has pneumonia in this moment. i think transparency, all the points we're making are important, but i want us to be very careful the way in which we're reading her health and how th that can serve as a proxy for the way in which we're talking about gender. >> we do, though, there were times. i remember jimmy carter collapsed during a race, and just a horrific visual. all of us would look horrific if we were like collapsing during a race where he was running a 5k, and the press put it all over the papers. suggesting that he wasn't strong enough to be president. that he was collapsing, et cetera. >> just to counter mika's point, just as a matter of debate, i'm for maximum disclosure all the time. in her case, because of the trust issues she has, she's always politically in a better place when she discloses more.

but there was an interesting debate that broke about this on twitter among people for work for barack obama who said, you know, every campaign, dan pfeiffer was saying this, every campaign i worked on, the candidate had pneumonia at some point. it's treatable with antibiotics. what's the standard for when we should have our candidates disclose illnesses that are treatable with antibiotics? is it the case that every candidate every time they get ill enough that they take antibiotics have to disclose it to the press. generally, i'm for more disclosure. in her political situation, i think it makes more sense, but it's an interesting question. >> let's ask dr. emily. first of all, based on what you have seen so far, does the prognosis and the diagnosis of walking pneumonia concern you? >> well, it's concerning. she's 68 years old. but we know so little about exactly what's wrong with her. we don't know if she had a chest x-ray. we don't know if there was any

suspicious bloodwork or troublesome blood work. to make a prognosis based on such dearth of information is almost impossible. on the other hand, for someone who is walking around, going to these events, i can tell you that 9/11 here in the city is very stressful. even if you're not standing down at ground zero, it's a tough day for people who live in new york. so she looks like she's -- she tried to power through, frankly. but in terms of a prognosis, very difficult to say. >> is it a serious diagnosis? walking pneumonia? >> it can be, based on whether or not a person is healthy in an underlying way. do they have cardiovascular problems? do they have high blood pressure? are they in general poor health? most people who have underlying medical conditions, it could be a very serious condition. on the other hand, it's kind of a run of a mill thing that

general practitioners see all the time, people have, get over, go bato work. no big deal. >> doctor, what about -- >> underlying conditions. >> you're talking about underlying conditions. she's taking medication. >> i think it's coumadin and something for blood clots. >> and other things, blood thinners. does what little we know of her health at 68, would that concern you more as a physician? >> not those things specifically. her blood pressure was reported to be normal blood pressure. so that makes me believe she doesn't have any cardiovascular problems or significant cardiovascular problems with her heart. she doesn't have diabetes. we have never heard about that. those are the types of things i would be very concerned about. she's 68 years old. stuff happens over a lifetime. and she's accumulated some dvts. she had a blood clot in her brain. none of that specifically would worry me in terms of the pneumonia. >> all right, doctor, thank you

very much. >> david ignatius, i'm sure you remember that image of jimmy carter collapsing. no, i'm not talking about the killer rabbit. i think a few weeks later when he was jogging, jimmy carter collapsing and a lot of people reading way too much into that. jimmy carter, extraordinarily healthy, even today. add some historical perspective to this. was all the hyperventilating yesterday from people watching mrs. clinton hyperventilate overboard? >> as with the famous jimmy carter image you're talking about, the reason it was important is it came at a time when there already was a discussion about mulace in america about whether jimmy carter was up to it as president, and then suddenly, this image, extraordinarily healthy man running a marathon, for goodness's sake, or a long

race, shouldn't have added concern, but it did. in this case, hillary clinton has had a difficult couple weeks, i think, by anybody's judgment. and two things that i have seen in her since i first began covering her many years ago. first, she always pushes herself to the edge of stamina. when she was secretary of state, she had to go to that next country, that next rally, that next event. it's just part of the way she operates. and second, she's always been extraordinarily reserved about any personal information. yoknow, they didn't let it out the white house, didn't let it out at the state department and they're not doing it now. that combination, you know, of people asking questions about her, pushing herself super hard, and not saying much about her personal situation, those came together in this incident. what we can say, what i would say in conclusion is her health is now a legitimate campaign issue. no way to escape it.

>> still ahead on "morning joe," "new york times" columnist david brooks joins us to talk about what he calls our big me culture and why it's paralyzing the country. he'll explain when he joins us on set. plus, controversial and calculated, well, hillary clinton's basket of deplorables line proved to be a mistake or a rallying cry? you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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of trump's supporters into what i call the basket of deplorables. right? the racist, sexist, homophobic,

xenophobic, islamophobic, you name it. and unfortunately, there are people like that. and he has lifted them up. he has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people. now have 11 million. he tweets and retweets, their offensive, hateful, mean spirited rhetoric. now, some of those folks, they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not america. >> that was hillary clinton at a new york city fund-raiser friday night, seemingly writing off half of the support donald trump is garnering. clinton went on to say the other half of trump supporters feft left behind in the current economy and by the government and are in search of change. but an outcry led clinton to clarify her remarks by saturday afternoon, saying, quote, last

night, i was -- as she said in the first place, grossly gene l generali generalistic, and that's never a good idea. i regret saying half, that was wrong. but let's be clear. what's really deplorable is that donald trump hired a major advocate for the so-called alt-right movement to run his campaign and david mook and other white supremacists see him as a champion of their values. i won't stop calling out bigotry and racist views in the campaign. many of the trump supportererize hard-working americans who just don't feel like the economy or our political system are working for them. trump responded to clinton's reaction with his own statement, calling her unfit and incapable to ever, adding, isn't it disgraceful that hillary clinton makes the worst mistake of the political season and instead of owning up to this grotesque attack on american voters, she tries to turn it around with a pathetic rehash of words and insults used in her failing

campaign? for the first time in a long while, her true feelings came out. showing bigotry and hatred for millions of americans. how can she be president of our country when she has such contempt and disdain for so many great americans. >> what do you think of that statement? what do you think of both statements? >> um, trump's statement is very difficult to wrap my mind around. >> why is that? >> because i think we need to separate the politics from the truth. >> right. >> and i have been saying on this show for weeks now, what does this election suggest about theelectorate. what we do know is this, 60% of trump's supporters believe that -- have a negative view of islam. 76% of his supporters actually believe we should build a wall or ban muslims from the country. nearly 50% of trump's supporters have a negative view of african-americans. over 40% think we're lazy, dependent, criminal.

>> there was a pew poll that was shown after these statements, and trump supporters, was horrifying. in every way. but as far as who is lazy, who is this and who is that, david ignatius, a south carolina poll of trump supporters back in february, the week of the south carolina primary, 80% support the ban on muslims entering america. 31% ban homosexuals entering america. 62% support a national database for muslims. 40% support shutting down all mosques in america. 33% say the practice of islam should be illegal. there are scores of other polls like that. again, it's not 50%. but any candidate running against donald trump, and by the way, a lot of republicans are saying similar things back in the fall. >> well, the numbers show that

there are -- there's a nativist xenophobic stream among trump supporters. i think the reason people have responded to this as a mistake by hillary clinton is characterizing your opponent's supporters, americans who are out there getting ready to vote in a language like that, a basket of deplorables. that's just going to stick. it's going to be a sound bite for the rest of the campaign. people will come back with all kinds of numbers. but i think clint was wise herself not to argue the point. she didn't do what you just did. she said, i was wrong. i was wrong to use that language. and i think that was probably the smart call. not to show numbers that might say, here's what i meant, but to say, i was wrong. >> still to come on "morning joe" -- >> think this will be the last election. i don't know, i think this will be the last election that the republicans have a chance of winning because you're going to have people flowing across the borders. you're going to have illegal

immigrants coming in, and they're going to be legalized and able to vote. once that all happens, you can forget it. you're not going to have one republican vote, and it's already a very hard number, already, the path is much more difficult for the republicans. you just have to look at the maps. >> didn't someone tell him they were leaving? someone needs to tell him they're leading. the numbers are the opposite. >> do you not remember lawyers in love by jackson broun? >> good song. >> the russians escaped while we weren't watching them. like russians would. >> i leave the singing to you. >> the mexicans are leaving. the illegal immigrants are leaving. >> he's not bright. what is going on? >> david is going to join us on whether trump is right to be so fatalestic. >> how can he blurt out such stupidity? >> stop it. we have to go to break. >> that's incredible. [ "on the road again," by willie nelson ] ♪ on the road again

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you know what i did? you'll be very proud of me. i saw what was going on with her. and i said, you know, i'm going to go do something, and i actually took a physical last week and will probably, i guess this week, we announced the results of it. they come in. i did pretty much the whole

deal. and because i think we should. i think we should do that. >> donald trump speaking with cnbc earlier this morning. joining us now, "new york times" columnist david brooks. his book "the road to character" is now out in paperback starting tomorrow. john heilemann, and mark halperin all back with us as well. >> david, it must be exciting. your publishers must be thrilled that the "road to character" comes out in an election that will be long remembered as the character election, 2016. >> the central virtue in the book is humility. that's had such a huge influence on the campaign. >> in so many ways, especially of the man we were just talking of. i love the latest piece talking about the transformation of the parties. people think parties are static and they stay as they are forever. of course, it didn't happen. reagan in '66 started something in california that really transformed politics with a lot of working-class voters. you talk about more and more

republican republicans are town, and you have democrats who are gown. a big if, if republicans drop some of the racial tones, they have a great opportunity to grow. >> i just look at the divides dividing the society, and start with society before politics. if you ask if somebody has college degree or not college degree, you can tell a lot about them, whether they're likely to smoke, to vote, to give blood, whether they're trusting of the people around them. what their marriage is like. we just have a big sociological divide between the educated and less educated and our politics is basically catching up. trump doing really well with the less educated. clinton with the well educated. that's going to break the divides we had before. >> that mump has been happening toward the republican party for some time. why? >> partly because, partly for racial issues. partly because of the less, the more liberal you are, the less contrated you are.

but you have had this weird marriage between the corporate global people who love openness and the working-class white people who hate openness. for a while, there's been stress, stress, stress between these two sides of the coalition. i happen to be with a bunch of ceos over the last couple weeks. and they talk like democrats now. you get the impression within ten class, the people who live in charlotte, new york, l.a., they're all going to be democrats. so the republican party faces a choice. they're either going to be a really small working class party or they have to get at the other groups. >> the transformation is going on as we speak. we showed polls, georgia closer than it should be. arizona closer than it should be, nevada, new hampshire. it's cutting both ways. states hillary should be way ahead in, it's tight. trump should be way ahead, it's toit. >> all of these trends, first globalization, second, technology. third, words.

do you feel comfortable talk sng we're in a business, which is good in the modern economy, where we can talk a lot. a lot of people aren't in that business. >> makes me uncomfortable. >> talking? i have noticed. if you feel the pressures of the modern world are at your back and they're pushing you to success, you have one set of attitudes. if they're in your face, you have an entirely different set of attitudes. >> it's interesting because you think back to when you had the transformation from an egrarrian economy to an industrial economy and you go through the same transformation we're seeing now where the splits in the parties became more about future versus past, open versus closed than they were about left versus right. out of that, you had huge partisan upheaval. can you imagine that happening, not just kind of the smaller shifts, but a new party emerging? democrats and republicans changing places. >> the whig party disappeared, which is my home natural party. so it's -- >> that is correct. i have noticed in all of your

columns, you refuse to take a strong stance on slavery. >> they were anti-slavery, very pro-railroad. but what you have traditionally, you have these periods of stability and then total disruption. we're in a period of i think disruption because the issue i'm sort of focusing on is trust. and it's interesting we're talking about clinton's health because trust becomes so big for the candidates and then in the country itself. if you asked people 30, 40 people years ago, do you trust the people around you? a majority said yes. if you ask millennials, 19% say yes. people are very distrustful. distrust of institutions, distrust of each other. once that happens, all sorts of things can fade because they have lost fate in the normal things that bind them together. >> you talk about if republicans can give up racial wedge issues. i want to link that to trust. when we talk about race in this country alt the heart of it is a bad faith that we're not honest about what we're actually

committed to. and so even as we see these realignments, race seems to be at the center. and so how -- you say it's a big ask in the article. how do we talk about race honestly given the erosion of trust, particularly around this subject? because people just seem to be engaged in bad faith when they talk about it. >> we have had populist elements in this country before. we never had a populist movement that transcended the racial line. >> exactly. >> that's because economic anxiety is manipulated frankly be people like donald trump into ethnic anxiety. it's just easier to express. it feels deep. you have this fear so you want to turn it to an outsider group. it would take an act of imagination and creativity to overleap that faith. i would say the odds are against it. the republicans will become a party that has some latino elements, african-american elements and white elements. if they don't do that, they just become a 30% party. and ever shrinking. if the future of the republican part awas white working class

guys in northern florida, great. >> mark halperin has a question. >> just a bit about why the republican party is doing so well at the gubernatorial and congressional level. >> well, two things. first it's a straight-up turnout issue, as we know, and second, you know, it's funny, when you travel, i got the trump issue as wrong as it could be. i got the impression he would be giving the state of the union address and i would be writing columns, don't worry, he'll never get the nomination. i got it really wrong. i spent the last five, six months traveling around. when you dpe to state and local politicsturic feels so different than national politics. states and localitiey ies seem function. it doesn't come with the trummian baggage. >> you see what trump won the nomination when you look at some of the candidates and what they need to do to appeal to their

constituents. >> you see the opiate addiction in towns in west virginia. you see the isolation. a lot of people falling through the cracks. i would say this trip for me, these six months has been a hopeful trip. because i'll go to some place and there are community healers wherever you go. i was in a neighborhood in houston, it's between three highways, latino neighborhood. got nothing for the kids after school. some young woman from a college in new england has come down and she's got 1500 kids going to her after-school program. you run into these people everywhere. i ran into drug treatment counselors who have like $17 in the bank account, but they're doing drug treatment for 50-year-old guys. there are people out there creating little communities. if somehow that could get fused into a thing, it would just be the country would look a lot different. >> well, the book out in paperbook tomorrow "the road to character," is well worth the read. david brooks, thank you so much for being on the show. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe."

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so, tomorrow is huge. we say that about every show, and usually we aren't telling the truth, but tomorrow is going to be a really big show. >> yeah? >> really big show. >> yeah. >> we have former head of the cia and nsa, retired general michael hayden. >> that big. >> you're thinking that big. he's going to talk about the delicately brokered cease-fire in syria that goes into effect. also, larry kudlow with his new book on what today's candidates can learn. >> kudlow, wow. man. >> no, but wait. >> kudlow has a great -- he'll have a pinstriped suit. >> but wait, there's more. >> oh, there's more. >>oe conason, a new book on bill clinton. >> that's more than one man can take. tats it. i'm done. >> that's beer and that's egg in the beer. right? but wait.

wait, if you dvr "morning joe" right now, in the next 15 minutes, you'll get to see tomorrow, the "new york times" maureen dowd with her new book titled "the year of voting dangerously, the derangeable of politics" and vicente fox. >> is this a six-hour version of "morning joe" or the normal three-hour version? >> we're going to compress it. we're going to compress six hours of sugar into a three-hour pack. but the former president, who is no fan of donald trump, will be here. and that's just a dash of what you're going to have tomorrow morning. but still ahead this morning -- >> is he going to be on the show, too? >> i hope so. >> if you put barnicle in there. >> they go to central park and you don't know what happens. seriously, don't know what's going to happen. >> ask him about aleppo and god knows what will happen. >> what is aleppo? so coming up from the south side of chicago to the holes of

college campuses. >> while he's onboard with this idea of going away to college and finishing college and coming back and hopefully hoping to change his community in some positive ways, we can't escape the fact that when he leaves school every day, he's running up against some forces and some people that would much rather see him make poor decisions than make the right decisions. >> our friend wes moore will be a here with a new documentary on two teens beating the odds. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

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my family, my father's side of the family is real gang affiliated. i know that i have to be the one to make it through college. >> my mother really played the big role in my life, being the mother and father. >> when i lost my daughter, i was really sick for a long time. but i had to go on for the kids. >> i finally had a chance to see my mother again, i would say look how far i made it. i made you proud. >> it really only takes one generation to kind of right the course for any family. >> that was a look at the new pbs documentary, all the difference, that follows two african-american teenagers from the south side of chicago as they embark on a journey to achieve their dream of graduating from college.

joining us now, the executive producer of the film, best-selling author and combat veteran of the u.s. army, wes moore. good to have you back on the show. it's been forever. >> great to be back. >> this looks so good. that grandmother, i'm already in love with her. she seems amazing. >> her grandson, when robert, one of the stars in the show, that we followed for five years, when he was 17 months old, his father killed his mother. and he was about to go into the foster care system with all of his siblings and his grandmother said i'll take them in. she took in seven kids. and this is a woman who was a share cropper in mississippi. >> who lost her daughter. >> who lost her daughter because her son-in-law killed her and is now taking in and raising all these kids on the south side of chicago. >> so all the difference, the basic concept is. >> the basic concept is we want to understand there's a larger conversation about how wonderful it is that we can get kids through k-12, and that is important, but the truth is we also have to understand what's happening to so many students, particularly african-american students of color, first in the

family, as they enter into higher education. currently, 17% of african-american men between the ages of 25 and 28, 17% have a bachelor's degree in this country. and when you look at what's happening, when they first enter college, they're flagging out quickly, 50% of all african-americans who enter college every year will not make it past their freshman year of college. and we wanted to understand why. what is taking place in higher education and how do we change the narrative both in the ideas and minds of the young people, the people going through it, and then also how do we understand the structural challenges that exist in higher education keeping people from making it through. >> i want to ask this educator from your point of view, do you see that kind of phenomenal at princeton with african-american students? >> absolutely. part of what we do, and you know this from your work, you can have students coming from, in effect, the same economic background, having the same school preparation, but when they get to, when they get to college, a place like princeton,

they're not doing as well as students. with the same background, and we have to figure out why. a colleague of mine, doug massey, has written about this and talked about social chaos, the baggage we bring to the campus. so i remember being at morehouse, and you know, i get a call from my mom in the middle of having to take an exam, or i have to figure out how this is going to -- how i'm going to pay for this or what happened to my cousin who just got locked up. >> so the teens face plenty of challenges on campus from financial aid to the issues of race, as we were just discussing. here's another clip. >> you can tell by the look in their eyes, they look at me, what the heck are you doing here? why would the class put you in? you can feel that vibe. i'm not naive. but i never let the people who criticize me determine my destiny and my purpose i have at this college. i just pay attention to my schoolwork.

any classroom i go into, i sit in the front, i don't sit in the back, because i'm here for the professor. >> john heilemann. >> there's obviously a bunch of questions that go to what the issues are that precede this and create this situation. at the institutional level, what's the right institutional response from both of you guys like how to deal with it, those facts as they're current lly beg faced? >> maybe they deal with it before. >> it has to be both before and after. 85% of colleges and universities in this country right now are either deemed open access or noncompetitive. by definition, they accept 50% or more of the people that apply. you understand we have a broad diversity of people who are college students. it's not the traditional idea of people think who is going to college, but i think colleges when they're thinking about the on-ramping, when they're thinking about the financial aid support, over $8 billion every year that's left on the table in financial aid because students aren't filling out paperwork correctly, there are structural things that continue to sit in the way as we think about developmental course work and

remedial course wurx. these are courses students pay for but they're worth nothing. institutions can be more progressive and more thoughtful about ways they can give not just matriculation but momentum to students. that's what we're looking for. >> brilliant ideas. >> i think it's important we not paint the freshman class or paint the student body with one broad brush. >> of course, sure. >> and to understand that particular populations have particular issues that need to be addressed specifically. i think what wes is talking about is precisely that. if institutions understand not only their unique histories but the unique demands these populations bring to the school, then they're on the road to actually addressing the issue. >> all the difference airs tonight at 10:00 on pbs. it's part of the largest pbs spotlight education initiative happening all week. wes moore, fantastic work. great to see you. thank you for being here. >> always killing it. never puts a foot wrong. i don't understand it. flawless. >> we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." rence

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whether it's connecting one of or bringing wifi to 65,000 fans. i'm bocampuses.d for weeks. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. she's being so protective. she can walk into this arena right now and shoot somebody with 20,000 people watching right smack in the middle of the heart, and she wouldn't be prosecuted, okay? that's what's happened. that is what's happened to our country. i never thought i would see the day when this is happening to our country.

>> so who says that? >> who says that? >> right in the heart. >> time now to talk about what we learned today. >> what did you learn? >> i learned that donald trump has an interesting idea for the debates. >> what's that? >> so i think we should have a debate with no moderator, just hillary and i just sitting there talking. >> oh. >> i'm totally for that, too. that would be fun. >> wow. that's what i learned. >> what did you learn? >> same thing. totally for that, no offense to the moderators, but let them go at it. >> i love that. what did you learn, eddie? >> if you name race in the election, you risk upsetting with everything. >> why would you say that? are people calling you names on twitter again? >> always. >> i don't believe that. impossible. >> you know what i learned? >> what's that? >> i learned that the trump campaign has no good answer on the question of taxes and why he won't release them. >> he's just not going to do it.

kellyanne is very good, though, at what she does. >> but she doesn't have a good answer on that question. >> who does? >> pbs, give us the info. >> pbs, 10:00 p.m. tonight, part of the pov grad nation siris and the thing i learned is that the college persistence challenge in this country is real regardless of the institution. >> and tomorrow, seriously, seriously, this is like live aid. with all the stars. >> no kidding. oh, my gosh. >> general michael hayden. >> is vicente fox going to be there? >> yes, and larry kudlow, joe conason, maureen dowd, former president vicente fox. >> a morning of 1,000 stars. >> we are the world. we are the children. >> all right. that does it for us. we're going to wrap it up. thank you, all. wrap it up. chris jansing picks up the coverage. >> i hated to interrupt that song fest.

thank you so much, mika. good morning, everyone. i'm chris jansing in for stephanie. this morning, overheated. hillary clinton's health scare wobbling and apparently nearly collapsing after attending a 9/11 memorial. >> are you feeling better? >> yes, thank you. very much. >> the campaign now revealing she has pneumonia. cancelling her trip today to california. donald trump weighing in this morning. >> just hope she gets well and gets back on the trail. we have to see what's wrong. we have to see what's wrong. but whatever it is, it is. >> this as clinton comes under fire for this comment. >> you know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of trump's supporters into what i call the basket of deplorables. >> trump pouncing this morning. >> i think it's the single biggest mistake of the political season. >> plus, the protests. nfl players taking a knee during the national anthem on the