former president bill clinton campaigns for his wife in las vegas. chelsea clinton is also back on the stump holding four events for her mom today, two in north carolina and two in virginia. >> so that does it for us on this wednesday, i'm the money that is put into these accounts can also be spent not only on child care but also child enrichment activities. see. we'll start with that child. that will be our first child. that's cute. ♪ the circle of life ♪ and it moves us all

>> my gosh. >> i want this one. >> he held a baby a long time. >> thank god for donald trump because the concept of child care is finally coming to the fore here in america. >> when is hillary clinton going to do that? talk about child care. that's what trump said last night. when is she going to do it? >> it's been decades. >> may 14th. >> what are you talking about? >> don't be mad. >> i don't understand. >> i found it on the google. >> what are you talking about? >> explain this to me like a fourth grader. what are you talking about? >> i don't know. it's early. >> donald trump said that hillary should come to a plan.

>> why won't she? >> she's got one already. >> and tweeted in the middle of his speech here it is. >> it's wednesday, september 14th. we have some people that obviously -- that whole donald trump and "lion king." >> i thought it was fantastic. mike barnicle. former communications director for president george w. bush nicole wallace. co-founder of politico, and in washington, former government of vermont and former chair of the democratic national committee, howard dean. >> good to have howard onboard. how many times have parents around this table seen "lion king." >> i cry every time. >> i've seen it 47 times. my two older boys wanted to see it like 25 times so i did and kate and jack have seen it the

other 22 times. >> that and "cars" and "toy story" are on a constant loop at our house. >> here we go. we're going to talk about children. it's good to hear both candidates care. hillary clinton is set to return to the campaign trail tomorrow as she continues to recover from her bout with pneumonia. her campaign says she spent the day reading briefings and making calls but her wide network of surrogates has maintained her present in the field. yesterday her husband picked up her events and chelsea was on trail in winston-salem and president obama hit the stump in philadelphia. he took his 58% approval rating on the road praising clinton and mocking trump. >> i keep on reading this analysis that, well, you know, trump has support from, like,

working folks. really? this is the guy you want to be championing working people? this guy who spent 70 years on this earth showing no concern for working people? this guy suddenly is going to be your champion? you want to debate who is more fit to be our president? one candidate who has traveled to more candidates than any secretary of state ever has, has more qualifications than pretty much anyone that's after run for this job, and the other one who isn't fit any way, shape or form to represent this country abroad and be its commander in chief. this is not reality tv. the donald. who just last week went on russian state television to talk down our military and curry

favor with vladimir putin. he loves this guy. and when the interviewer asked why do you support this guy? he's a strong guy. he has an 82% poll rating. saddam hussein had a 90% poll rating. i mean, if you control the media and you have taken away everybody's civil liberties and you jail dissidents, that's what happens. y the pollster calls up and says do you support the guy who you didn't support, he'll throw you in jail, you say, yes, i love that guy. i have to do business with putin and russia. i don't go around saying that's my role model. can you imagine ronald reagan idolizing somebody like that. >> so donald trump hit back at

the president. >> hold on. wait. what do you all think of that? >> it's so easy for him. >> this race might be close between trump and clinton. the surrogate race forget it. her surrogates started with the president, vice president and everybody else she has out on the trail. >> did i hear 58% right? >> yes. >> you know, you go through -- you talk about football teams or president of the united states, a lot of time it depends on who follows you. you don't want to follow bear bryant if you're a coach at university of carolina. i think it was andrew johnson that said of abraham lincoln heroes know when to die, right? this is that in reverse. barack obama could not be luckier if he's worried about his legacy and his approval ratings to have these two candidates with approval ratings

in the 30s following him. everybody is looking around and going, okay, not so bad. 58% approval rating. >> and good economic news. >> it's all -- not only does he enjoy it, swagger he has, he says this is so easy how come you can't do this, hillary? he likes traking trump apart bu he loves showing how much better he is at this than hillary. the distance between him and how he articulates and prosecutes the case against trump and her is very effective. >> he can have a lot more fun and be a lot looser. >> i don't think she views it as a competition between -- i mean, listen, i think she should get a doctor's note saying it's contagious and needs ten more days in bed and he's superb on

the stump. the president's line in the speech yesterday was let me get this straight, one foundation gives out money and saves people's lives and others uses the money to buy a six-foot portrait of himself. clinton folks try to say he's ridiculous but president obama tried to show how he's ridiculous. politics is so basic. any story telling. show, don't tell. he does it intuitivy. >> vladimir putin on state-run television when you have the president of the united states saying going on state-run television and talking down our military, he's a strong surrogate. >> the trigger line in the clips we showed. vladimir putin has 82% approval rating. saddam hussein had a 90% approval rating. everyone gets that. >> trump benefits from her inability to make the case as

president obama did. >> there's an argue case she should be making. donald trump hit back at the president posting on twitter, russia took crimea during the so-called obama years. who wouldn't know this and why does obama get a free pass? >> i don't get that. >> and also he said this. why isn't president obama working instead of campaigning for hillary clinton? zinger, howard dean. i would also like to argue in terms of these surrogates doing such a good job making the case against donald trump, i think hillary clinton ought to do something that a lot of women are really bad at and she ought to talk about herself. she has a lot to say about what she's done and about what she can do, and quite frankly, i think america is ready and it is time and refreshing to hear a woman saying here's what i can bring to the table and say it in

a way that really penetrates the voting electorates minds and makes them realize there's someone really qualified here, someone that will stand up for you in a way that connects. women struggle with this. especially in this kind of race where you have to constantly go after donald trump. you forget to talk about yourself. >> that is incredibly insightful. i have to say. i really do. the thing that makes me -- that i think about immediately is where sort of the feminism or whatever you want to call it is. hillary is the generation of slaughter who wrote a great book about this which is insightful and then comes sheryl sandburg 25 years younger and has a very different experience and i think the younger millennials have even a different experience. young women today because things have changed so much and the

point you just made is extraordinary. i haven't really thought about it before. it's true. historically women, especially of my generation, don't like to talk about themselves. the truth is -- i'm not saying this for partisan reasons for a change, the truth is it makes them really good managers and it makes them able to do things that men can't do where their egos get in the way. >> team players. all that stuff. >> that's an extraordinary -- >> you said something important. >> that's something that you do all the time when you go to your value conferences, you always tell women -- it's a generational thing. we can't talk about ourselves. we don't talk ourselves up but we talk up our co-workers. we talk up people -- our children, our families. we fight for everybody else. we're less comfortable when we start talking about ourselves. >> she has to find a way to do it. here's how i have fiercely defended children across the

country since i was 25 years old. here's how i have fiercely defended veterans. here's how i have fiercely defended this country and represented the state of new york. here's how as secretary of state -- there's an incredible list of accomplishments. she's got to nail them. >> you can take a negative and turn it into a positive. yes, i fiercely defended my husband. some people think i went too far. you know what, maybe i did. after all we've been through. after all of the years, we're still together and you know what? i am so sorry for mistakes i made but my instinct is always to fiercely defend my husband, to fiercely defend my children, and to fiercely defend your children and everybody else's children. >> here are some e-mails where i working on a, b and c and where i went to this country and dug in on d, e and f. look at my e-mails. look at all of the work i've been doing. >> that's one of the keys, i

think. if you talk to a lot of people, you get the sense that's one of the keys. it's what we talked about yesterday. the baggage that comes with the clintons. 30 years worth of baggage. when she talks about her husband, she frames it up as we. i agree with you, joe. she should say i. i made a decision to stay with my husband. i love my husband. >> is it a problem that she also made the decision to protect her privacy? it's not that she doesn't show us good things. it's that she doesn't show us anything. the instinct is to hunker down this way and hide. i don't think she has a 60% sense among voters, all voters, not just republicans that she doesn't tell the truth because she doesn't. i've been to all of your conferences. i can't do it. it's hard to advocate on your own behalf. >> mike and i have the same problem. that's why we keep going.

we guys don't like talking about ourselves. >> the other coin is because she can't do that, it's not that she doesn't make her own case, people suspect she's hiding something bad. >> there's an incredibly long list, decades of work that she's done. she should be proud of it. she should be nailing it. >> that's something else she does too. she hasn't said this yet. just like i fiercely defended my husband in the 90s, i did that first. i asked questions later. i got embarrassed. we all got embarrassed. we fought through it together on these e-mails i made a mistake. you know what? my family has been attacked for 35 years by right wing republicans. my child has been hurt by attacks against our family by right wing republicans. they take -- you know, they called my husband a murderer in the 1990s. now they call me killry.

these are people on the same night that barack obama, first night a black men in history was sworn in and we're trying to figure out a way to destroy him. maybe i was too aggressive in protecting my family and myself. while i was doing this, these are things i also was doing. >> the question is how receptive are people to hearing that? the frustration they have is this campaign is off. the coverage of it, the tone of it, it's kind of a joke. if she were to prosecute a case of what she's done, she's done that effectively but getting people to pay attention to it. >> bring donald trump into it. bring in the shiny object. how about do a time line, when i was 22 i was already doing this. donald trump was doing this. when i was 24 i was graduating from this and i was already

doing this. donald trump was doing this. by the time i was 30, i was doing this. i would hammer it home every day. her career is incredible. >> what mika is talking about is exactly right. what she's talking about -- jim is right in the sense that the stage has been set. she can change that narrative. she has to control the narrative. trump has been controlling the narrative since the beginning of the campaign how he beat 16 other republicans. most of whom were better qualified than he is to be president of the united states. mika's point is not only do women not like to talk about themselves particularly in that generation but in order to talk about yourself, in order to control the narrative, you have to be able to talk about yourself. you guys are dead on. you know, i think this is an extraordinary thing to think about. i don't think it's been explored very much during the campaign partly because she hasn't controlled the narratives and she needs to do it and she needs to talk about herself.

i hate to say this, joe, but i actually think you could be her speech writer. it's exactly what she should be saying. i'm sure you don't want that job. i'm just saying -- >> i've gone to mika's know your value conferences and i'm struggling through my fears to talk about myself. i'm getting there. >> don't act like joe. >> as we go to break here before we do, a couple weeks ago in washington, d.c. i asked everybody where do you think the race is at this point. it was end of august. i said it was a tossup. it's a tossup now. two weeks later, it's amazing the bad run she's had, the good run he's had as far as being more disciplined than before. you know, i guess the usc tracking poll yesterday had trump up by three points. i think what we're going to see in the coming weeks, we'll see a

lot of those races tighten up. you'll see ohio probably tighten and maybe go in duonald trump's favor by a couple points. i mean, this race is getting tighter by the day. i can't imagine any debate in presidential history this side of the 1960 debate and 1980 debate between carter and reagan being bigger than this one. the race is basically a tie now, isn't it? >> i don't know if i totally agree with it. on a national level it looks like it's a tie. if you look that he can't win virginia, colorado or new hampshire. make this race very, very, very difficult for a republican to win. >> don't you think those state polls tighten up? >> if you take colorado and virginia, two states that should be swing states. there's a big gap right there. even if it tightens, there's an advantage for hillary clinton. you look at the maine poll in

the boston globe that has maine tied and bloomberg shows trump up in ohio. >> you say maine is tied. >> and then in ohio he went up three in the bloomberg poll this morning. >> i didn't know about those polls. >> i would put the money on hillary clinton. >> do you have a pile of money? >> when i do, i would put it on hillary clinton to win. we were talking about this off set for debates. if i was donald trump, i would go off like rocky did in rocky iii and train in a barn for three weeks getti inting ready that debate. if he could exceed his expectations, if he did his homework -- i don't think he will. >> i think he can. i think he's going to surprise a lot of people. i think expectations are low. let's put up that maine poll again. 1984 the last time a republican

won maine. maybe 41 won maine in '88. howard, mike, since you are the only ones along with me old enough to remember this, i hate to keep going back to it, but people forget what a joke ronald reagan was perceived by elites all over america. he was a clown in their eyes. that debate with jimmy carter was won as much on expectations as anything else. people -- this is a problem. you paint donald trump as this crazy maniac that's going to start world war iii. he guess out and looks rationale for two hours. he's not that bad. >> i think that was probably the biggest fear of the clinton campaign that if donald trump in the first debate doesn't like the stage on fire, he wins because of the expectations are so low for him. if he's able to give the

impression that he's a moderate, sensible, not a loud mouth, not a crazy person, because of the expectations game, he's going to do fine. >> it's all expectations. >> it is. obviously there's a very different standard that hillary clinton is held to because she's been in politics for 30 years and so forth and trump has held low expectations. trump has done well on a teleprompter. there's no teleprompter in the debate. he doesn't know what's coming next. he doesn't control the narrative. so there's a big difference between ronald reagan -- it's true what you said. the elite in washington, ronald reagan, my god, ronald reagan was governor of the largest state in the country for eight years. that should get you fairly close to being able to actually compete well in the presidency. >> i'm talking about again expectations. the media painted reagan as such

a dunce that he exceeded expectations and made all the difference in the world. >> although i think hillary has a core to her of things that she deeply believes in. she doesn't always express them as well as she could. i'm just thinking of the reagan versus carter and the way it looked on stage. reagan is this big guy. carter immersed in policy is struggling and country isn't feeling good about itself. i think the country is feeling better about itself. if it wasn't, barack obama wouldn't be at 58%. it's a little bit different. reagan is a much more substantial person than donald trump is. >> when we come back, howard mentioned it. huge economic news. of course there are some dark sides to the economy still as everybody reported on this yesterday suggested. man, family incomes rise after a

lull. over 5%. i think it's the biggest jump in mod he were history. income still below where they were in 2008 but what a great advance for the american working family yesterday. >> still ahead on joe scarborough -- "morning joe," mr. pence goes back in for a meeting and colin powell's e-mails out in the great. e-mails are amazing. also this morning, the top democratic in the u.s. house congresswoman nancy pelosi is with us on set. >> that's exciting. >> former president of mexico vincente fox. we'll be right back. it's not a banner that goes on a wall.

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>> it's time to free ourselves from the baskets that politic n politicians try to put us into and always have put us into and instead to work together.

>> okay. i don't want to get pounded. i'm getting pounded. everyone is going to say the expectations are so much lower for donald trump. what if they are? if they are, i'm saying he's getting better on a prompter. write your blog. he's getting better. it's like they don't want to hear what's happening in the election. two weeks ago when i said it was going to get tight, everybody went crazy. it got tight. he's performing on a way in stage that's going to help his cause. write your articles or whatever but it's the case that he's getting better on stage, all right. and what that means is if he sucks on stage and he's a couple points behind and he gets better on stage communicating in a more

disciplined way at least for today, he's probably going to do better going into fall. >> you've given that too much time. donald trump's running mate mike pence met with house republicans yesterday in an effort to promote party unity. according to "the new york times," pence faced resistance from some house republicans and behind closed doors some of them reportedly told them concerns about trump's performance with women. he said his young daughter came up to him and said, daddy, donald trump hates women. "the new york times" reports that while meeting with senate republicans he received a firm repute from senator john mccain who called vladimir putin a thug and a butcher and according to a source said trump's embrace of putin was unacceptable. congressman peter king commented to reporters that many members are supporting a trump ticket largely because of pence.

>> a number of people said that when they were asked at home why are you supporting donald trump and they said because he picked mike pence to be vice president. that shows the quality of person he picked. >> pence faced resistance from lee and cruz, neither of whom have endorsed trump. >> given the tone of this race, i wonder if you're any closer to supporting donald trump in november? >> it's absolutely clear that hillary clinton is unfit to be president of the united states. >> the meetings on capitol hill came a day after pence refused to call david duke deplorable during an interview. he was pressed on the issue again during a news conference yesterday. >> for all of the world i have no idea why this man keeps coming up. donald trump and i have denounced david duke repeatedly. i was asked a question about that. i repeated that again.

the simple fact is that i'm not in the name calling business. i'm also not going to validate the language that hillary clinton used. we live in a free country. people of ill motives can associate themselves with politics. i would draw no more conclusion of that man's expressions of support than i would the fact that the father of a terrorist who killed 49 americans was seen at a hillary clinton rally cheering her on and said he was there because she was good on national security. >> just curious. >> it's really tough. it's almost -- it's like something david blaine couldn't get out of. they're in this really sort of trap that is impossible for them to get out. i have no idea how they could get out of that.

>> is david duke deplorable? >> yeah. >> you have a choice. you either answer the question and say, yes, absolutely right away or you chew on the word salad. >> how stupid is it? >> there's no choice. >> why can't you say he's deplorab deplorable. >> in your kid came home and said i heard about david duke? he's deplorable. >> he's deplorable. >> name calling exists. it gets a bad rap. >> mike pence has a loss of words. >> of course he's deplorable. it shows part of what trump does is contagious but it shows contagion hasn't spread that

far. those members were really, really harsh on him. >> republicans. >> because they do go home and face questions. >> people don't like what they say. >> for people that ask what's happening to the republican party, look at that meeting yesterday. the republican party tore him to shreds when he went in there asking all of these questions because he's hearing it at home from their wives, from their children, daughters, sons, everybody. >> this is just a fascinating turnaround because trump, who i do think is getting better on the stump with a teleprompter and that, the issue of him violating republican orthodoxy is extraordinary. it's not just sort of the hard conservative positions he's not taking that upset them. the relationships with putin who may or may not be a thug and dictator but he's certainly not our friend, that's a core -- not only republican but kind of inside the beltway diplomatic

tenant of our country since the cold war with that brief period after the collapse of the soviet union, putin restored the cold war so for trump to be buddy, buddy with vladimir putin. can you imagine what that must be like? you served there. can you imagine what they're talking about on the foreign relations committee? >> can you imagine what would happen if a democratic candidate for president went on russia state-own television and then ran down the men and women of the united states armed forces. >> imagine if hillary clinton had gone on rt? >> look at the front page of "the new york times" website. there are four stories about russian mischief. one about them hacking into u.s. athletes. one about them being linked with d.c. leaks, which is the lead suspect in the colin powell leaks. russia has not been particularly constructive in their constructions with this administration over syria.

it's like he doesn't -- we know he doesn't read the paper. russia is getting worse and not better and his love for him grows. >> is this new for mike pence? >> the trump contagion. >> i don't think mike pence spoke russian before he started serving with donald trump. >> is he scared of trump? he is just in lockstep with whatever trump says? >> mike pence, as you said, as governor and also as a member of congress would have been the first to condemn in the harshest of terms vladimir putin. never compared vladimir putin to an american president. so yesterday byron york picked up on something we've been saying around the table. >> i thought you were the only one. >> apparently there are others. >> let me find it here. >> byron york was talking about the deplorable strategy actually being positive for hillary clinton as i did because it's going to get people talking

about the nature of some of his support. sure enough look at these headlines byron york used to prove that it actually fits right into their hand. huffing ton post mike pence refuses to call david duke deplorab deplorable. daily news, mike pence refuses to describe david duke as deplorabl deplorable. abc news, mike pence denounces david duke but won't call him deplorable. there are about 30 articles just like that all over the country and you can't help but think that they've walked into a trap here. >> it's a simple question. we can go over -- is he deplorable? yes. >> i think the deplorable comment was deplorable. look at that name pomaine poll?

why is the race tied? north of portland he's beating hillary clinton by 20 some points. you have a group of people who are really frustrated and hate all of us. they hate government. when you give them more reason to hate and feel distance from everybody else, let's say hillary clinton wins, you have a huge block of people who are even more angry, feel even more disenfranchised and more misunderstood. i don't know how going after a big block of voters help. >> i agree where byron calls it clunky. she can score points. it's too broad. she's created a community now of people that are obviously not deplorable. the people that came up on stage with him two nights ago look like great people. >> not deplorable. i wouldn't go without having deplorables. it's way too broad. howard dean, i want to show you the maine poll one more time. a neighboring state of yours

that you governed for a long time. george h.w. bush was the last republican, almost 30 years ago, to win that state but donald trump is in a dead heat with hillary clinton. what explains that? >> it's a very clear explanation, which is fascinating. it doesn't have a lot to do with the race. there is a minority governor in maine who is essentially a clone of donald trump. he's very much of a conservative populist. he has said outrageous things about black people and all other kinds of stuff. the northern part of maine is a working class place. a lot of loggers and people whose jobs have been displaced by various economic dislocations that we talk about on this program all the time. paula paige is there because democratic split their vote.

that's what's going on. paige is under enormous attack. he said inflammatory things recently. so the state is bitterly divided and therefore they are rallying around trump. i think that's what's going on in maine. i expect hillary to win maine in the end. these folks feel like they're being persecuted. >> a new poll shows that donald trump is pulling ahead of hillary clinton in ohio among likely voters trump is at 48% while clinton is at 43% in the poll taken from friday through monday. bloomberg notes that polls party breakdown is close to what the state looked like in 2004 opposed to 2008 meaning a higher gop turnout. what do you think? >> it's what i said 15 minutes ago. the national polls and here 15 minutes later it's the case. national polls tighten up. trump ahead in an l.a. tracking

poll by three points. that's a leading indicator of these polls coming out. this race is a tossup. with him up that much in ohio, watch pennsylvania. this all moves together. pennsylvania has to be tighter now. maybe it's two, three points. florida has to be tight. i expect to see a poll over the next two or three or four days if dynamic of the campaign don't change that show trump up in the state of florida. everyone that said two weeks ago this was over and had maps that showed that hillary had 380 electoral votes, they're going to have to erase a lot of blue and color in a lot of red because dynamics of this race have changed. >> why do you think the president was in pennsylvania. >> howard dean, thank you very much. coming up, house minority leader nancy pelosi joins us in just a bit. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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young adults on everything from geography to international politics. >> do you think susan saw that? >> richard breaks it down for us next. they (engine revs) things about rain. like how hard it's gonna fall. (engine revs) the things it does to your parade. we've got a saying about rain, too: when it rains... it roars. the all-wheel-drive charger.

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...and scheduled a replacement... ...in just a few clicks. with safelite you don't have to miss a thing. y'all did wonderful! thank you. (girls sing) safelite repair, safelite replace. >> i see this younger generation that is so full of energy and ideas. aren't going to be held back by the old ideas. imagine what can be instead of just what is. >> president obama is giving props to younger voters but a new survey shows many of them still have a lot to learn. joining us now, richard haas whose council teamed up with national geographic on quizzing college students on world events. you have a piece on syria. a lot happening. in financial times you warn about investing too much hope in the current cease-fire.

some say there's hope. you outline a potential course of action writing there could well be too many players with conflicting agendas for a cease-fire to hold. such an approach would not end the war but that is beyond anyone for the foreseeable future. neither a national cease-fire nor a transition to a post-assad unity government is on the cards. more realistic would be safeguarding various enclaves to reduce the humanitarian toll. such a goal may seem too modest but in the middle east even what is modest can be ambitious. i couldn't agree with him more. >> you talk about the conflicting interests obviously in the cease-fire holding. what about the safe zones? is there an area? is there a no-fly zone that you

can get turkey? you can get assad's government. you could get russia. you could get america to agree. >> i don't think you can get everybody to agree because there's too many. we think of syria as a conflict, there are multiple conflicts. obviously we're going up to isis with a local al qaeda offshoot. the problem with trying diplomacy like this is it can't deliver everybody. if you push diplomacy long enough and hard enough that's the answer so i think it's to create safe zones. >> where do we create safe zones? >> where the sunni population largely lives. you don't try to make the entire country safe. you choose certain areas. >> will russians go along with that? assad won't want it. >> you have to ground the syrian air force and that means uses cruise missiles to take out aircraft. >> you tell russians to go to the syrians and say you need to

let them know we're going to get safe zone to refuge es can come back and if you don't like that, there's nothing you can do to stop it. >> it's not a national solution. if you hope for diplomatic solution or anything else, you missed a chance to make a bad situation less bad. >> would russians be agreeable in splitting syria into two parts? >> i don't think a formal split. syria, iraq, libya, you name it. almost all of these countries are not going back to what we would call governments. nominal government with nominal borders. the reality is it will look very different. >> are you disturbed that -- this crisis rages on. you spent a lot of your day thinking about it. the current administration spends a lot of their hours working on this in the same way the one i worked in spent most of our time in meetings with iraq and afghanistan. are you at all troubled there's

been no debate between the two candidates in a race that joe just described as a tossup? >> almost no debate about america's role in the world. >> to the degree there has, it hasn't been encouraging. >> be careful what you wish for. i'm not sure that policy debates is uplifting and people can say things they may come to be if they win. north korea nuclear missile tests. situation in syria. we had a situation in russia and ukraine continuing and venezuela is imploding. a trade agreement is sitting out there. no shortage of stuff that will greet the 41st president in his or her inbox. ed what -- we would wake up where you have major internal challenges in china. >> stay with us if you will. we're going to go with survey of your tests. i was born ready. >> america's youth has done so

well. coming up, the upside of inequality. a new book that says it's time to stop blaming 1% for being successful. the author joins us in just a bit to explain this. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ americans are buying more and more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the united states postal service to get it there. because when you ship with us, your business becomes our business. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. the united states postal service. priority: you [ rear alert sounds ]" [ music stops ]n ] ♪ on the road again ♪ just can't wait to get on the road again ♪ [ front assist sounds ] [ music stops ] [ girl laughs ] ♪ on the road again

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>> donald trump, of all of the strange things he's done, and he's done a lot of strange

things. this is how he started his speech yesterday in asheville, north carolina. ♪ there ain't no doubt i love this land ♪ ♪ god bless the usa >> i think he just fondled the flag. >> did he do that or was that edited? >> it looked real. >> coming up next, hillary clinton off the trail for one more day. president obama took care of things for her yesterday in pennsylvania. plus, new overnight, former secretary of state colin powell has been put in the 2016 spotlight after leaked e-mails reveal he called donald trump a national disgrace. do we have to get that out of someone's e-mail? also with us, the most powerful woman on capitol hill. congresswoman nancy pelosi is here in the studio and "the new

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>> you want to he debate foundations and charities. one candidate's family foundation has saved countless lives around the world. the other candidate's foundation took money other people gave to his charity and then bought a six-foot tall painting of

himself. he had the taste not to go for the ten-foot version. he's not going let you on his golf course. he wasn't going to help you buy in his condo and now suddenly this guy is going to be your champion? >> that was president obama on the campaign trail for hillary clinton in philadelphia yesterday one part of the wide network of surrogates maintaining her presence in the field as she continues from pneumonia. >> it's fair to say that most of the people in that audience could not play on the golf courses and go to the clubs and live in the neighborhoods where barack obama golfs, where he lived in the past and where -- >> yeah, but -- >> out of step. >> can we have a golf course

exclusion? >> welcome back to "morning joe." thank you, joe. it was a good speech. it's wednesday, september 14th. still with us on set -- >> did i offend you and your sensibilities? because your hero may have been just a wee bit hypocritical there. >> he's using it well helping hillary clinton at this point while she's fighting pneumonia. >> you can't ridicule people on golf courses where other people won't play when that's where he'll golf for the rest of his life. if you want to be offended by it, you can. she gets really upset whenever i say anything about barack obama. >> joining the conversation, kasie hunt and on capitol hill, former ted cruz communications

director now msnbc political contributor, rick tyler. you were there yesterday. how was the audience receiving such hypocritical terms that president obama was laying out for the audience. >> in fairness to the president, he didn't come from that originally. look, president obama -- >> i know. to tell you the truth seriously, the exclusive prep school he went to in hawaii was only the best prep school in hawaii. that's a rough start. it ain't queens but go ahead. >> president obama clearly has a blast on the campaign trail and everyone there was having a blast. i cover hillary clinton every day. there's a contrast to be made there. you can see them there. i'm so glad to be back on the campaign trail. yes, we can. all of it.

and i think the challenge for him that you can hear is to tell people that i'm really, really into hillary clinton because a lot of people that got excited for him aren't going to be excited for her. the poll that is out is the assumption built into his speech yesterday. >> rick tyler, i want to give you two numbers. the first one, barack obama's approval rating 58%. pretty strong. in fact, you would to go all of the way back to bill clinton being impeached to have a president with approval ratings that high other than w. right after the war. this president is riding high in the polls. does that translate for hillary clinton? >> i think it absolutely will. if she could extend her sickness

longer, and send barack obama out because he clearly really enjoys and is really good at getting crowds excited and 58%, he also i think it was mentioned earlier in the program, but i think he's benefiting from the fact that he has hillary clinton and donald trump to go up against. he's looking pretty good. >> looking pretty good. that's like batting third after two guys that are batting .173 and .195. >> i want to raise another truth this morning. >> preach it, brother. >> what did donald trump do yesterday? he proposed another welfare program. it's unbelievable to me that conservatives are out there now because the very children whose parents would benefit from this welfare program will be the same ones that will have to pay it off. we have a $20 trillion

operational debt. let's just add more money on it and why go six weeks, 12 weeks. why not just make it until you move out of your parent's basement. >> we talked about it before. republicans don't want to hear it. people that support trump don't want to hear it. he's not a conservative. he's not even a republican. he's a big government liberal from manhattan who has been a big government liberal for 65 -- >> he's a big government liberal. he always has been. and he always will be. so for conservatives to say you're not a true conservative or a republican, you're not falling in line with the nominee, no. no. give me a break. >> one of the most striking things about this campaign. we lose focus. liberal democratic hijacked a party. that's why mike pence talking in the last segment about him not being quick enough to condemn what david duke was saying.

i think as bad as that for conservatives the fact that you have mike pence who is a really, really, really conservative guy. >> not anymore. >> not anymore. that's where it gets contagious. >> he's pencing. we can make it a term. >> this was all conservative orthodoxy for 30, 40 years and you have a repudiation of this by their own nominee and that's one of the reasons that republicans in those closed doors meetings are so harsh on pence and trump. not just stylistic things but he's moving the party in a direction that has to scare the hell out of the party. >> i could argue she's more conservative than he is if you think of where she is on foreign policy and on trade, she's more conservativ conservative. >> you'll enrage a lot of

people. i'll tell you this. hillary clinton's positions are far closer right now on trade and on foreign policy to paul ryan and to george w. bush in 2000 and 2004 and every other conservative in between on capitol hill. >> you know who would agree? george w. bush i would bet. >> there's not a debate on this. if anyone tries to debate it, they're fools. >> i cut you off. >> trump is onto something else. his supporters have moved. the big debate in the republican party is not small versus big government. it's open versus closed. they want big government because they're pro entitlements. he's against immigration and against free trade. that is where most of the energy is in the republican party. by the way, that's where a lot of the energy is in the democratic party. >> we had david stockman on

yesterday. a guy that's been a libertarian. i asked him the big question. what about entitlements? that's kind of bad. kind of bad? five years from now, ten years from now. every dime that goes to washington, d.c. is going to be going to pay off medicare and medicaid. we borrow everything else. we have a $20 trillion debt. we have something like 50 to 60 trillion worth of debt obligations coming up over the next, 50, 60 years. heading to an economic catastrophe. how does a conservative come on and gleefully say i'm voting for the guy who refuses to talk about the drivers of debt that will cripple this country. >> that's right. the whole thing is an alternate economic reality. the fact is, parents, if you want a refundable tax credit, you're asking your children in the future to pay that off.

that's what's going to happen. you can condemn your children to endless debt or, you know, look, i grew up in a single parent household. my mother worked full time and raised four children. it's hard but a sacrifice. focus on children. leave it to the market. a lot of companies will offer maternity leave and i know that i'll get a lot of e-mails saying that's not an option for people, but we just can't keep piling on debt after debt after debt and leaving it all to our kids. it's just wrong. >> i'm going to look at the ohio poll in a minute and ask you what the heck is happening. this is what happened in washington. donald trump's running mate mike pence did his best to shore up support with weary gop members on capitol hill yesterday and according to reports -- >> how did that go? >> it did not go well. >> really? what happened? >> top republicans were very, very concerned about trump's candidacy and where pence stands on things. according to "the new york times," some house republicans expressed concerns about trump's

performance with women. jeff fortenberry told mr. pence that his young daughter came to him and said, daddy, donald trump hates women and "the new york times" reports while meeting with senate republicans, he received a firm rebuke from senator john mccain who called vladimir putin a thug and a butcher and i bet he would say that he's deplorable. i am thinking mccain will go there and that trump's embrace of putin is unacceptable and senator mike lee of utah insisted to pence that republicans must identify david duke's racism as deplorable. and others left completely unconvinced. >> can i ask you, senator, given the tone of this race, i wonder if you're any closer to supporting donald trump in november? >> it's absolutely clear that hillary clinton is unfit to be president of the united states. >> the meetings on capitol hill came a day after pence refused to call white supremacist david

duke deplorable. he was questioned again yesterday. >> i have no idea why this man keeps coming up. donald trump and i have denounced david duke repeatedly. i was asked a question about that. i repeated that again. the simple fact is that i'm not in the name calling business. i'm also not going to valid ate the language that hillary clinton used to describe the american people. >> that ladies and gentlemen is called pencing. paul ryan does it. mitch mcconnell does it. >> i think mitch mcconnell does it a lot less than anybody else. >> when you're pensing, you're schilling for your nominee even

though deep inside you do not agree with anything says and he makes you sick but you don't have the guts to say it because you're afraid for your job and don't have the foresight to see that will hurt you in the long run. that's pencing. what's going on in ohio? >> i was going to say did you -- it's not name calling. >> why can't you just say, you know what, he's deplorable. of course he's deplorable if somebody asked me that question i would say of course. what are you a bigot? why do you have to ask that question? why can't he answer? >> because somehow it happens in politics where you have to defend your guy. it's deplorable. say it's deplorable. going back to more conservative, think about his position on russia and why they're so mad about it. it's not just about ronald reagan but mitt romney said putin was the number one strategic threat to the united states and you have him buddying

up with him and neither person on any side would say he's not a butcher and thug and he has no power, he has a crappy economy, a terrible country, and the fact that that's someone they would hold up, that's why these conservatives get so mad and why people like mitch mcconnell try to say nothing and he's going to keep saying nothing because one thing people are missing in the last two weeks, senate went from looking like it would flip to democrats to looking better for republicans because there are candidates who aren't saying anything about trump and getting money from donors who aren't -- >> republicans don't believe donald trump will win this election and they'lling the o bs rebuilding what's left of the republican party. the cultural conservatism here is the fundamental split in the republican party. that's what's going on. that's why you have people that

believe in entitlements and want medicare and medicaid but they are conservatives. it doesn't line up. that's what you're seeing play out. >> look at the new poll from bloomberg, mika. >> it shows donald trump pulling ahead of hillary clinton in ohio among likely voters trump is at 43%. clinton is at 38% in the poll taken friday through monday. gary johnson takes 10%. and jill stein 4%. bloomberg notes their poll party breakdown is close to what the state looked like in 2004 opposed to 2008 meaning a higher gop turnout. what is going on there given everything we've been talking about. >> this race has been tightening up after the democratic convention donald trump had an abysmal two to three weeks and hillary clinton has had a rough two to three weeks and her numbers are falling. >> that's exactly right.

>> americans are paying attention and right now you have a tightening of the national race and of course the state races always follow. wouldn't you expect pennsylvania to get closer? donald trump to move ahead two, three, four points in states like georgia and nevada. some of the states he's had trouble pulling away in. >> she's had an advantage because she couldnshouldn't be competitive in georgia and arizona but she is. virginia now seems to be back in play because we have a lot of activity across the river here in virginia. you could expect it to get tighter. then it will turn out for turnout and turnout operation. donald trump doesn't have one. hillary clinton does. i should mention the rnc does have a turnout operation. so we'll see. i do think two things. i think that hillary clinton's health episode, which they made a mistake of sending someone with walking pneumonia to an

event where she would be expected to sit for three hours produce that video. it's devastating. it's bad to look at. people are uncomfortable with it. it also feeds into the idea she had walking pneumonia. she knew that on friday. her campaign never released it until sunday. they never seem to learn. they never seem to learn that transparency will earn you more credit than continuing to hide and hide the truth because it leads into her worst liability which is people don't trust her. >> former secretary of state colin powell is confirming the authenticity of e-mails in which he has harsh words for donald trump and other leaders. according to his personal e-mails seen by buzz feed, powell called trump a national disgrace. in an e-mail from august 21st, powell wrote of trump's demand that president obama release his birth certificate. the whole birther movement was

racist. that's what the 99% believe. when trump couldn't keep that up, he said he also wanted to see if the certificate noted he was a muslim. as i have said before, what if he was? muslims are born as americans every day, powell wrote. powell explained why he chooses not to speak out about trump. "to go on and call him an idiot just emboldens him." that's a good point. powell a retired four-star general has confirmed authenticity of the e-mails about trump to nbc news and says the hackers have more. d.c. leaks is suspected by intelligence officials of having ties to russian intelligence. awkward. i feel awkward. >> you just can't type anything. everything comes out now. the hackers. what is the united states doing to put defensive measures up against countries like russia which may in this election over the next couple months, they may

be able to determine the outcome of a united states presidential election. >> the truth is that offense is ahead of defense here. there's no amount of defense we can put up that would make our systems invulnerable. get rid of the word invulnerable. there are degrees of vulnerability. >> is there adequate focus? >> it's every system and every state and computer and so forth. there will be vulnerability. >> doesn't there have to be a role for the federal government? the north koreans look at it as a national strategy. china is looking at it as a national strategy. why don't we look at it as a national strategy. >> we have elements both cyberdefense and cyberoffense. this is the wild west, joe. no sheriff out there. no rules. lots of players. this is what the situation we're going to be in. it's all those countries you mentioned. various groups and individuals. we'll do stuff to defend. and at times we'll do stuff to

attack like iran and their nuclear program and we'll use it against north korea. this is the most unregulated domain. >> we mentioned that council on foreign relations teamed up with national geographic in quizzing college-aged students about global events. what did you find out about what they knew and where they get their information? >> what they didn't kn know was lot. a real information deficit. the reason is in one part they get a lot of information from social media which is self-selected. >> it's always right? social media is always right. >> almost every college in america offers courses on these things. almost no college in america requires that you take them. you can navigate your distribution requirements and you can graduate from america's colleges as globally illiterate. we're not graduating enough people to fill critical jobs. we need a national debate in

this country like we had about s.t.e.m. we need to see what a college degree should represent. they are entering this global world. why are we not preparing the next generation of americans for it? >> they should be taught more about where to navigate where they get their information. >> you pay 50,000 bucks a year at these schools, why can't we ensure that a degree means that you're ready to navigate and operate in the world you're going top enter into it. >> people graduating with degrees from m.i.t. who can't tell you who the vice president of the united states is. >> more than half of the kids got minority half of the questions wrong. this is global illiteracy on a global scale. >> a war in iraq. >> 90% didn't know the amount of foreign aid we give. 90% didn't know canada was a

principle trading partner. >> if you were a freshman entering college this year, the united states of america has either been at war or has been dealing with the dramatic consequences of what happened in 2003, which means 15 years of their life or -- >> 12. >> have been involved in iraq and they can't place it on the globe. >> you might as well be talking about the pell peeshian war. >> richard, thank you very much. rick tyler, thank you as well. still ahead on "morning joe" when democrats had written off chances of taking the house, donald trump won the nomination for president and now democrats like nancy pelosi find their

party within striking distance. is she ready to take the gavel again. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> more americans are working. more have health insurance. incomes are rising. poverty is falling. and gas is $2 a gallon. i didn't even -- thank you for reminding me. thanks, obama. like how hard it'. (engine revs) the things it does to your parade. we've got a saying about rain, too: when it rains... it roars. the all-wheel-drive charger. domestic. not domesticated.

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>> i'm going to roll out a plan to help our mothers and our families get affordable, quality child care for their children. and my daughter, is going to be involved. she's smart and right. for many families in our country, child care is now the single largest expense. even more so than housing. very little meaningful policy

work has been done in this area and my opponent has no child care plan. she never will. and if it ever evolves into a plan, it will never get done anyway. >> it's amazing all of the years hillary clinton has been involved in politics and focused early on in her career on young children that she has no child care plan running for president. that is shocking. >> this the true danger of pencing. when you are acting like mike pence and you are sort of parroting your candidate because you're too scared to say what you think, you are going to parrot things that are untrue, wrong, immoral, often ignorant. donald trump is calling for six weeks of paid mandatory maternity leave. 12 weeks for mothers and fathers paid at least two-thirds of their salaries is hillary clinton's plan. the clinton child care plan has

been in place since before she announced her candidacy in the spring of 2015, which her campaign pointed out last night posting the website link and tweeting, "it's literally right here." >> with us now, we have congresswoman nancy pelosi of california. nancy, it is always great to see you. thank you for coming. talk about what you're wearing today. this is not a fashion -- it's about a tribute to one of your members. >> yes. today we will have a memorial service for our colleague from hawaii who passed away. he asked us to wear aloha to his service. >> beautiful. i love it. >> because of redistricting, i don't think anybody thought the democrats had a shot of taking the house back. donald trump has changed all of that, hadn't he? >> he's the gift that keeps on giving every day that he says

something that helps us mobilize at the grassroots level. he's been good. here's the thing. don't get too carried away by redistricting. when we took the house in 2006, which you know was not something that anyone predicted. it was a shock. we had just been the victim of a mid decade redistricting in texas. a difference of 14 seats. nonetheless we came in and won. it's on obstacle but not insurmountable. you don't win if you don't fight and we'll fig for every seat. >> how many seats would you say are up for grabs every two years usually? out of 435, isn't it usually about 30 or 35? >> maybe double in play. >> depends on the environment. >> we need 30 seats to win. what i'm saying is that i think at the end of the day, that being election day, we'll have -- there will be a single

digit difference. we'll make tremendous inroads in terms of the number of democrats in the house. >> let's talk about hillary clinton. i was arguing this morning she needs to know her value and communicate it more effectively. she's got these incredible surrogates who are out there punching donald trump. maybe she ought to think about doing something that i don't think comes naturally to her because when you talk to her in person, she's incredible. she's really nice. she really connects. i don't think she enjoys campaigning. she said it herself. does she need to talk more about her own accomplishments and her career more aggressively about what it is that she brings to the table and stay away from this garbage? >> she's a very accomplished person. >> we know that. >> when she walks into that oval office, she'll walk in as one of the most experienced, accomplished, prepared leaders

in a long time with all due respect to the last three presidents. >> even barack obama said it yesterday. >> so what's important to people is what it means to them in their lives. her values, her vision, her knowledge and judgment, her plan for the future. how does that connect with people in terms of their lives? and when you hear all of this back and forth and this and that, if your normal average person in our country, what does that mean to me? what does that mean to my ability to make a living, educate my children, own a home, retire with dignity. that's our secure our country and our economy and democracy by getting rid of money in politics addressing some of the concerns that people have. i just say throw away speeches

and throw away the teleprompter anding hi ining be hillary. she has it in her. when you talk about children, you talk about their health, their education, their well-being but the economic security of their family, the environment in which they live and world peace in which they can thrive and nobody does it better than hillary clinton to make that case. >> you know, speaking about normal, average people and their concerns and concerns that affect their lives, a lot of people wonder why when something like zika arrives, a health emergency, that there seems to be such difficulty in the congress of getting more money for more zika virus to deal with the emergency. what is the problem? what is going on here? >> as you know president obama in february on the basis of science and evidence and data asked for 1.9 billion for the

zika virus to fight the zika virus whether it's through research for a vaccine or vector control prevention, all of that. it's just a philosophical difference between democrats and republicans in the congress. they would not pay for the money and put up the money and, b, the zika virus is a terrible thing because it is also sexually transmitted. they have said no matter what we do, we're not going have contraception as part of -- >> so opposition is they don't want to fund it or it cost too much? >> it's both. when you have an emergency and joe knows this whether it was a natural disaster or anything, you have an emergency spending bill. it is not -- you don't have to say how are we going to pay for it when we have a natural disaster as we have now in louisiana. so they made a departure from

what would be the normal regular order which is let's just do it. instead they said take the money from ebola, which eventually the nih had to do because there was no money. this comes back to the real basic difference between democrats and republicans. you have trickle down economics which gives tax breaks to wealthiest people in our country. let it trickle down. if it creates jobs, that would be good. if it doesn't, so be it. that's the free market or middle class economics. an economy that works for everyone. why it relates to this is because when you have the trickle down the same crowds you go balance a budget. you go balance a budget because they cost money. so then you take it out of cut pell grants. don't expand some of our investments into the future and when something like this comes along, we have opiodes.

>> they would say we're $19 trillion in debt. we'll do this but we have to pay for it first and that really has been for some time a battle between republicans and democrats alike. i think tom one time even refused to pay for relief in his home state of oklahoma until it got offset. republican argument to be fair is we've got $19 trillion debt. $4.5 trillion budget. we ought to be able to find money to offset these expenditures. >> they never want to offset a tax cut for the wealthiest people in the country which doesn't do anything to create jobs except it increases the deficit. so it's inconsistent. i agree with pay as you go. if you have something -- you want to give somebody a tax break or make an investment, pay as you go. that's our democratic mantra. pay as you go. when you have an emergency, you

have an emergency, it's going to end up costing you more if you avoid the investment. >> obviously. >> you keep talking about this difference between republicans and democrats. hillary clinton, your nominee, is out on the trail saying the difference is between normal conservatives, republicans, democrats, and donald trump. is that argument helpful for you trying to take back the house? >> answering for myself and not hillary, there's not a great deal of difference between what donald trump has said on the campaign trail that people find appalling. climate change is a hoax. we don't hear every day in the congress of the united states. >> hillary clinton is saying the opposite. every day saying the opposite. >> i will say this. as we know, in the history of our country spectrum from left to right has been the legitimate debate in our country.

i would say that donald trump is off the arc. but there are many people in the congress who are off the arc too. so i don't think that you can just say that he's different from the people. from some in congress. i don't paint them all with the same brush. this beautiful debate that we go to congress confident in our views, ready to debate, willing to negotiate, is something that's gone from the republicans in congress. >> house minority leader nancy pelosi. thank you for being on the show this morning. still ahead, "the new york times" maureen dowd joins us about why it's not hillary clinton's problematic about her campaign, it's their stealth. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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he's a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. sage. donald trump is a phony, a fraud. he's not a serious adult. i can't vote for donald trump given the things that he said. trump should not be supported. i believe he's disqualified himself to be president. i just cannot support donald trump.

>> in election season, you will often hear crazy stuff. but i got to say this year we've been hearing a little more crazy than usual. >> joining us now, bestselling author and columnist for "the new york times," maureen dowd. her new book is "the year of voting dangerously." also at the table, nbc news correspondent katy tur covering the trump campaign. >> the two candidates just never learn. they never, ever learn. >> everything is upside down. you've got the republican cozying up to the evil empire and democratic cozying up to goldman sachs.

>> you have a democratic as a republican nominee. >> two new york democrats running for president. this is screwed up is what it is. >> you chronicled the clintons so for long. what is it about bill and hillary clinton that they just never learn. never learn. they always most of the wounds are self-inflicted. and you say they aologyipologiz when a political gun is pointed at them. >> i started covering hillary when she was running as bill's wife and then i went up and covered her health care thing and when i was rereading my book this weekend, i was sort of gushing about her and very supportive and trying to explain that the first lady was this ridiculous tight rope that no modern woman could do.

i read a bunch of other hillary biographies trying to figure out what happened to her and what happened to that girl. >> mika saw a clip extraordinarily tough over hillary clinton. saw a clip from 1992 on the "today" show. my god. she was so far ahead of her time. >> right. >> what happened? >> so pure. i think the problem is that hillary has -- you know, i'm not a gardener. i don't know the right metaphor. >> that shocks me. i see you out working the weeds every day. >> there's a vine, a killer vine around a tree. it's like she's a wonderful public servant who wants to save the world. always had that part of her and still does. but then there's a darker place that she makes decisions from a place of fear and insecurity. and that kind of trips up the public servant side.

so you always have the good side and then she gets -- you know, i was thinking it's like donald trump as his wall. she has her wall. and you saw it with the health thing. defensiveness. secretiveness. that is so self-destructive to her. >> speaking of donald trump, early on in dump's campaign, you seemed to take special delight in trump tweaking the establishment. as did we. we would mock all of the people that said there's no way this guy could ever win. you seemed to enjoy it for a while because he really did make fools out of the entire political establishment. >> and media. >> it was really fun to see someone kind of upset the golden apple cart of the consultants and all of the money and i really enjoyed that. i also kind of enjoyed him puncturing the neocons saying w

didn't protect us before 9/11 and even if he didn't do it when he said he did it, at least to critique the iraq war belatedly. he was kind of a truth teller in the beginning until, you know, he turned into a not truth teller. >> that would be a liar. >> yeah. >> i think in his case i've been trying to think how to describe it. it's worse than truthiness. it's more like wishful thinking. like he wished he had been against iraq from the beginning. i do have to give him credit. he turned against it. there's something in the book where i talk to him about it in 2006. he turned against it way before a lot of the -- >> he did. you could borrow that it's the rear of magical thinking. the world is what donald trump wants it to be.

>> he's in his own alternative universe. >> i wonder about covering that, katie. i mean, it's not as easy as it looks, is it? as it looks, is it? >> no. >> it doesn't look easy when everybody's screaming at her. >> let me just tell you what i mean by that because we get the same thing on the show here on a different level. why don't you ask him the follow-ups? why aren't you reporting on this? how many -- it is like a cacophony of fantastical thinking and name-calling and untruths coming out of his mouth. why do you cover it and not get criticized for not covering it as well? >> he has policy briefings every week. there has not been a day where we can focus on the policy speech because there's another controversy, more questions about his business ties. >> so people are mad at you for not -- >> exactly. there's a lot to talk about when it comes to donald trump because he's as transparent -- maybe not transparent, as well known

public figure as he's been for the past 30 years. there's still a lot we don't know about what's going on behind the scenes, especially when it comes to his business dealings and his corporation. who exactly is he tied to? what sort of money does he have invested? >> how do you ever get to that? >> we do but he doesn't answer it. we would know more of this if he released his tax returns but that is something he's not doing. >> you know, you can sort of track trump though through the years by reading the book, by reading your columns because like a lot of us, it begins -- trump is amusing, he's funny, you love the fact that he sticks it to -- like the neocons, as you said. then you come to the end of the trail in the book, we're not at the end of the trail yet. it's no longer funny. >> no. little muslim kids and muslim women start getting attacked. you know what, i met katie in iowa. i told her what an amazing job she's doing on this campaign because i'm sure it's hard, but the way i've always thought of

trump is like who killed jessica rabbit. you've got a movie with tunes. that makes it hard because he's a tune. you're trying to cover him as a human, right? >> my question to you is we have the concept of maybe what is going on in the country when he leaves an area. when it comes to little kids screaming down their hispanic classmates or muslim women getting their head scarves pulled off their heads in brooklyn. does he see any of that that's going on? >> saw a clip of a 69-year-old woman that was actually punched outside of a rally yesterday. >> yeah. i asked him early on how he felt about this violence at the rallies. he goes, you know, i like it. it adds a salt of excitement. i think he is the ultimate huckster who is selling in the moment. it isn't ideology, it isn't

values, he's just trying to make the sale. you know, it's his ego and everything is supplemented to his ego. >> one other question, do you think he wants to be president or does he want be to be called mr. president? >> our reporters debate this constantly. some think he doesn't want to be, some think he's self-destructive. i think he does want to be because whenever i have met any man or woman who's told they can be president, it's like a virus in the blood. they want to be the president. they want the toys, they want air force one. >> does he want to be called mr. president and the toys or does he want to get into office and be a civil servant? >> i think that he -- >> you asked a question that answers itself. >> yeah. he -- well, he certainly doesn't want to shrink back to new york as a loser, right? then his whole brand is gone, yeah. >> the book is "the year of voting dangerously." the derangement of american politics. maureen dowd, it's always great to have you on the show. katie tur, thank you.

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up next, hillary clinton side lined with pneumonia turns to her deep bench. president obama, her husband, her daughter, and her running mate with a full-court press on the campaign trail. plus, he's called donald trump a false prophet, menace, nag, and potential threat to world peace. that was just on monday.

former mexico president vicente fox joins us with the thoughts on the man who wants to wallop the man who wants to be president of the united states and make mexico pay for it. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ning your perfect record. yeah. now you would think your insurance company would cut you some slack, right? no, your insurance rates go through the roof. your perfect record doesn't get you anything. anything. perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance. i thought my bladder leakage meant my social life was over. wearing depend underwear has allowed me to fully engage in my life and i'm meeting people.

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> that's just -- hoisting it up. >> oh, my god. i want this one. >> i don't think he's held a baby in a long time. >> thank god for donald trump because the concept of child care is finally coming to the forefront of america. >> that's right. >> good morning. >> when is hillary clinton going to do that? talk about child care? >> when? >> until last night. >> she's got to get to these issues. >> he's right. it's been decades. >> been decades. >> oh, wait, may 14th. >> what?

>> sorry. >> what are you talking about? >> i don't understand. >> help me understand. >> they did it in may. >> no, he said when is she -- >> i found it on the google so -- >> what are you talking about? >> they have to have that at trump tower. >> washington, philadelphia, explain this. you're like a fourth grader. what are you talking about? >> it's early. >> donald trump said that hillary -- >> right. >> had a plan. >> why won't she? >> because she's got one already. >> she's done it already. >> like tweeted in the middle of his speech, here it is. yeah. >> right here. >> with us on set, we have some people that obviously i don't know what they do in the middle of the night, that whole donald trump and the "lion king," very good stuff. >> i thought it was fantastic. mike barnacle. >> legendary. >> former communications director nicole wallace. jim van dehy.

former governor of vermont and former chair of the democratic national committee, howard dean. good to have howard on board. >> how many times, like parents around this table seen "lion king"? >> i cry every time. >> i've seen it 47 times. >> my two older boys wanted to see it like 25 times so i did. and kate and jack have seen it the other like 22 times. >> that and "cars" and "toy story" are on a constant loop at our house. >> well, here we go. >> okay. >> because we're going to be talking about children. >> let's do it. >> it's good to hear that both candidates care. hillary clinton is set to return to the campaign trail tomorrow as she continues to recover from her bout with pneumonia. she'll have events in north carolina and the nation's capitol. her cap pain said she spent the day reading briefings and making calls but her wide network of surrogates has maintained her presence in the field. yesterday her husband picked up her events in california.

chelsea clinton was on the trail in winston-salem. tim kaine campaigned in ann arbor, michigan, and president obama hit the stump in philadelphia. he took his 58% approval rating on the road praising clinton and mocking trump. >> i keep on reading this analysis that, well, you know, trump's got support from like working folks. really? that be like this is the guy you want to be championing working people? this guy who spent 70 years on this earth showing no concern for working people. this guy's suddenly going to be your champion? you want to debate who's more fit to be our president? one candidate who's traveled to more countries than any secretary of state ever has has more qualifications than pretty much anyone who's ever run for this job and the other who isn't

fit in any way, shape or form to represent this country abroad and be its commander in chief. this is not reality tv. the doctor who just last week -- this guy who just went on russian state television to curry favor with vladimir putin. he loves this guy, and when they interview him, ask him, well, why do you support this guy? he's a strong guy. look, he's got an 82% poll rating. well, yeah, so did saddam hussein, had a 90% poll rating. i mean, if you control the media and you've taken away everybody's civil liberties and you jail dissidents, that's what happens.

if the pollster calls you up and says do you support the guy who if you don't support him he might throw you in jail you say, yes, i love that guy. i mean, i have to do business with putin. i have to do business with russia. that's part of foreign policy, but i don't go around saying, that's my role model. can you imagine ronald regan idolizing somebody like that? >> no! >> so donald trump hit back. >> wait a minute. hold on. wait. come on. what do you all think of that? >> it's so easy for him. >> this race might be close between trump and clinton. the surrogate race, forget it. >> unbelievable. >> her surrogates starting with the president, the vice president, everybody else she has out on the trail. >> did i hear 58% right? >> yeah. >> yes. >> you know, you go through whether you're talking about football teams, whether you're talking about being president of the united states, jim, a lot of times it depends on who follows you, right? >> right. >> you don't want to follow bear bryant if you're a coach at university of alabama.

you don't want to follow the coach of leicesterster city. >> this is that view of votes. barack obama could not be luckier if he's worried about his legacy and his approval ratings to have these two candidates with approval ratings in the 30s following him. everybody's looking around going, okay, okay, yeah, not so bad. 58% approval rating. >> and some good. >> some great news, right? >> you can tell. not only does he enjoy it, the swagger that he has, he's basically saying, this is so easy. how me you can't do this, hillary? not only does he like taking trump apart like he did at the white house correspondents dinner, i think he likes showing how much better he is at this than hillary. >> the distance between him and how he articulates and prosecutes the case against trump and her, i think it's

enormous. a very, very effective -- >> he's in a very different position. he can have a lot more fun and be a lot looser. i think he knows that. >> i don't think she views it as a competition. listen, i think she should get a doctor's note saying it's contagious and she needs ten more days in bed. he's superb on the stump. the foundation is in the news, the suit against trump. trump's line -- the president's line in the speech yesterday was so let me get this straight. one foundation gives out money and saves people's lives. the other one uses other people's money to buy a six foot tall portrait of himself. he boils it down. the clinton folks try to say he's ridiculous. what president obama did is try to show how he's ridiculous. politics is so basic. it's like any story telling. show don't tell. he does it intuitively. >> and talks about vladimir putin going on state-run television. we have a president of the united states saying that going

on state run russian television talking down our military, it's a -- he's a strong, strong surrogate. >> yeah the trigger line in those clips that we just showed, you know, vladimir putin has an 82% approval rating. pause. saddam hussein had a 90% approval rating. everybody gets that. >> trump, we talked about trump benefits from her inability to make the case asus singtly as president obama. >> i'm going to argue there's a different case she should be making. donald trump hit back at the president saying russia took crimea during the so-called obama years. who wouldn't know this? and why does obama get a free pass. >> what do you mean? >> and also he said this. why isn't president obama working instead of campaigning for hillary clinton? ohhh, xinger, howard dean. who doesn't like to argue in terms of these surrogates doing such a good job.

hillary clinton does something that a lot of women are really bad at. what do you say about what she's done? and about what she can do? and quite frankly i think america is ready and it is time and refreshing to hear a woman saying here's what i can bring to the table and say it in a way that really penetrates to voting electorates' minds and makes them realize that there is someone really qualified here, someone who's going to stand up for you in a way that connects and women struggle with this, but especially in this kind of race where it's just you have to constantly go after donald trump, you forget to talk about yourself. >> i think that is incredibly insightful, i have to say, i really do. the thing that makes me -- i think about immediately is where sort of the feminism or whatever you want to call it -- >> right. >> -- is. hillary is the generation of ann

marie slaughter. >> exactly. >> she wrote a great book about this which is incredibly insightful. then along comes sheryl sandberg and has a very different experience and she's 25 years younger. the younger millennials have even a different experience, young women today, because things have changed so much. and the point that you just made is extraordinary, and i haven't really thought about it before, but it's true. historically women, especially of my generation, don't like to talk about themselves. the truth is, i -- and this is -- i'm not saying this for partisan reasons for a change. the truth is it makes them really good managers and it makes them able to do things that men can't do. >> i could talk for her. >> in time. it's amazing.

>> here's what i say. here's how i fear for his country. secretary of state, there's a negative. i fiercely defended my husband. some people think i went too far. >> they're still together.

>> my husband. fiercely defending your children and everybody else. >> you want to see some e-mails, mike barnacle where i was working on a, b, c. here's some e-mails where i went to this country and dug in on d, e, f. yes, look at my e-mails, look at all that i've been doing. >> you get a sense that that's one of the keys. it has to do with something we began talking about yesterday, sort of jokingly, the baggage that comes with clinton's 30 years. >> unpack it. >> when she talks about her husband, she always frames it up as we. i absolutely agree with you, joe. she should start with i stay with my husband. >> isn't this a problem that she also made the decision to protect her privacy? >> yeah. >> it's not just she doesn't show us the good things, it's that she doesn't show us anything. the instinct is always to hunker

down this way and hide. i don't think she's got a 60% sense among voters, not just republicans that she doesn't tell the truth, and nobody's -- i've been to all of your conferences and i still can't do it. it's very hard to advocate on your own behalf. >> micah -- mike and i have the same problem. guys don't like talking about ourselves. >> she doesn't have the time. >> that's half of the coin. the other part of the coin is because she can't do that, it's not that she isn't making her own case, people suspect she's hiding something bad. >> that's something -- i'm sorry, there's this incredibly long list, decades of work that she's done. she should be proud of it. >> right. >> she should be nailing it out there. >> that's something else she does, too. we've said it all along. she hasn't said this. she needs to say, you know what, just like i fiercely defended my husband in the '90s, i did that first and i asked questions later. i get embarrassed, we all get

embarrassed. we fought through it together. on these e-mails, i made a mistake. my family's been attacked for 35 years by right wing republicans. my children -- my child has been hurt by attacks against our family by right wing republicans. they take -- you know, they call my husband a murderer in the 1990s. now they're calling me killary. these are the same people on the first night that barack obama, the first blackman ever in american history was sworn in were figuring out how to destroy him politically so, yes, maybe i was too aggressive in trying to protect my family and protect myself. i made a mistake but i hope you can understand. while i was doing that, these are the things i also was doing. >> i mean, the question is like how receptive are people to hearing that, right? not that she shouldn't make that argument, but i think the frustration that they have is that, listen, like this campaign is often like the coverage of it, the tone of it is kind of a

joke, right? it's very hard for -- if she were to prosecute like a very substantive argument of what i've done, different cases she has done that and done that somewhat effectively getting people to pay attention to it. >> well then bring donald trump into it. bring in the shiny object. how about do a time line. you know, when i was 22 i was already doing this, donald trump was doing this. when i was 24 i was graduating from this and i was already doing this. donald trump was doing this. by the time i was 30 i was doing this. i would hammer it home every day. her career is incredible. >> howard? >> what mika is talking about is exactly right. what she's talking about -- jim is right in the sense that sort of the stage has been set. she can change that narrative. she has to control the narrative. trump has been controlling the narrative since the beginning of the campaign. that's how he beat 16 other republicans, most of them were better qualified than he was somewhat to be president of the united states. mika's point is not only do women not like to talk about

themselves, particularly in that generation, but in order to talk about yourself you -- in order to control the narrative you have to be able to talk about yourself. you guys are dead on. you know, i think this is -- this is an extraordinary thing to think about. i don't think it's been explored very much during the campaign partly because she hasn't controlled the narratives and she needs to do it and she needs to talk about herself. still ahead on "morning joe," why can't mike pens say the word deplorable. >> it's like fonzi being able to say i'm sorry. >> why can't he say anything? plus, politics in 2016. in what other year would there be a video with the former president of mexico whaling on a pinata of donald trump. >> vincente fox joins us later. >> check his left hook out. president obama's tenure in august, median incomes jump by 5.2%. >> that's big.

>> we'll talk about how that could reshape the race. first bill karins with a check on the race. >> who thought we'd look like the normal ones this year, right? two tropical systems, one's a huge beast. the biggest of the year. the other is a baby storm. that one is located off our coast line here in florida now nearing the georgia border. yesterday brought squalor winds to areas around daytona beach, jacksonville beach. this morning the storm is weak. only 40 mile per hour winds. not a beautiful beach day for the beaches and coast lines of charleston, savannah, all the way back down to brunswick, georgia. this one went past taiwan last night. 180 mile per hour winds. was producing epic waves in the region. the eye went just south of southern portions of taiwan. that's going to go into china during the day today. here's sort of pictures of those waves. incredible stuff. we'll get damage pictures. the only other weather torey is the cold front in the east. record highs in washington, d.c. watch out for a stray shower. we definitely need rain in this region. pretty bad this summer.

it continues now as we look at fall in the weeks ahead. leave you a shot of new york city. probably the warmest day we're going to have until next summer in the big apple. high near 90 degrees. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. comfort food, you've had a good long run.

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and it starts with foster farms simply raised chicken. california grown with no antibiotics ever. let's get comfortable with our food again. from the baskets that politicians try to put us into and always have put us into. instead we need to try to work together. >> now he's going to say, oh, the expectations are so much overdone. what if they are? so if they are, i'm saying he's getting better on the prompter. go ahead and write your little blog. he's getting better -- >> on a curve. i'll forward you my hate. >> but you know what, it's like

they don't want to hear what's happening in the election. two weeks ago when i said it was going to get tight, everybody went crazy. it got tight, okay? he's -- he is performing in a way on stage that is going to help his cause. write your little articles in vox or wherever you want to write your little articles. >> oh, my lord. >> but it is the case that he's getting better on stage, all right? >> yes. >> and what that means is if he sucks on stage and he's a couple points behind and he gets better on stage, communicating in a more disciplined way, at least for a day, he's probably going to do better going into the polls. >> you're giving that too much time. that's all i have to say. >> donald trump's running mate, mike pence. >> but it is true because everything i say is true. >> to promote party unity. according to the "new york times," pence face resistance from some house republicans. behind closed doors they told

them his concerns about trump's performance with women. jeff fortenberry told mr. pence that his young daughter had come up to him and said, daddy, donald trump hates women. and they said while meeting with senate republicans he received a firm repute from senator john mccain. trump's embrace of putin was unacceptable. congressman peter king commented to reporters that many members supporting a trump ticket largely because of pence. >> they said when they asked at home why he's supporting donald trump, i said because he picked mike pence to be president. >> right. according to the times, pens faced criticism from mike lee and ted cruz, neither of whom have endorsed trump. >> i'm asking you if you're any closer to supporting donald

trump in november? >> hillary keeps getting worse and worse. it's absolutely clear hillary clinton is unfit to be president. >> the meetings on capitol hill came a day after pence refused to call white supremacist david duke deplorable. he was pressed on the issue again yesterday during a news conference. >> for all the world i have no idea why this man keeps coming up. i mean, donald trump and i have denounced david duke repeatedly. i was asked a question about that and i repeated that again. and the simple fact is that i'm not in the name-calling business. but i'm also not going to validate the language that hillary clinton used to describe the american people. hillary clinton wasn't talking about that bad man. we live in a free country and people wil build motives,

associate themselves with politics. i would draw no more conclusion to that man's expressions of support than i would the fact that the father of a terrorist who killed 49 americans was seen at a hillary clinton rally cheering her on and said he was there because she was good on national security. >> just curious. >> yeah. now you know it's really tough, this -- it's almost -- it's -- it's like something david blaine couldn't get out of him. they were in this sort of trap, linguistic trap that is impossible for them to get out. i have no idea how they can get out of that. >> let's try it. >> i'll try. >> is david duke deplorable? >> yeah. >> well, you've got a choice. >> wait. >> you either answer the question yes, absolutely right away or you chew on the word salad. >> how stupid -- how stupid -- how stupid is it? >> there's no choice. >> why can't you say he's deplorable. >> if your kid said, mommy, i heard about david duke, what's david duke like? he's deplorable.

>> what parent doesn't answer that question. >> this isn't like third grade, nanny, nanny poo poo. >> name-calling exists. it gets a bad wrap but it exists for david duke. >> he has recently called donald trump a menace who could, quote, even provoke a third world war. former president of mexico vicente fox has that and other observations of the republican nominee for president. he joins us live in just a moment. is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work that blazes the path to your passions? your personal success takes a financial partner who values it as much as you do. learn more at tiaa.org

yoyeah, i do.e? you guys are working on some pretty big stuff over there, right? like a new language for crazy-big, world-changing machines. well, not me specifically. i work on the industrial side. so i build the world-changing machines. i get it. you can't talk because it's super high-level. no, i actually do build the machines. blink if what you're doing involves encrypted data transfer. wait, what? wowwww... wow? what wow? there is no wow.

november 8th i'm going to stop illegal immigration and i'm going to stop drugs from pouring into our country and, yes, we will build the wall and, you're right, mexico will pay for the wall. they will pay for the wall. >> okay. well, there you have it. they're going to pay for it. >> they're going to pay for it. i asked him. he says believe me. >> believe me, that means it's going to happen. >> absolutely. >> he said believe me. >> absolutely. >> somebody says believe me, you've got to believe them. >> donald trump yesterday, that was just yesterday. >> was that just yesterday? >> still repeating his claim that mexico will foot the bill for a border wall. >> believe me. >> believe him. joining us now from capitol hill, former president of mexico, vicente fox. >> mr. president, thanks so much for being with us. is mexico going to pay for the wall. >> do you believe him?

>> oh, please, give me a break. i mean, it's a crazy, wild, stupid idea. we've been building a partnership between mexico and the united states. we exchange so much in trade, close to a trillion u.s. dollars. we exchange 1 million people goes back and forth the border. many americans come to mexico. many, many mexicans call me to invest, to trade with the united states. >> but, sir, what about all the immigrants who are pouring across the border into america and breaking the law? >> well, you know that today the flow has reversed. >> exactly. >> now mexicans are coming back to mexico because we have the opportunities for them and much less of them are coming to the united states so it is reversed. the same crazy idea is going to

a war with mexico. the duke ones, the goiogles. every one of these fortune 500 companies that do business in mexico, how are they going to bring back their businesses. we need strong, great relationship. >> just for everybody that's watching the show, because i understand there are some people watching, while we have the most educated viewership in america, some people might be dumb enough to think that mika did not know the answer to that. >> i was joking. >> which is the point, mr. president. >> he has people believing this. >> mexicans streaming across the border when actually it's a net negative right now which makes this entire debate seem even more meaningless, right? >> yes, it is meaningless and it's meaningless to build the wall like he said the gatness of the chinese wall. this ignorant doesn't even know

that the chinese wall failed, thoroughly failed. the mongols got in and conquered china with the berlin wall. this is a stupid idea so please wake up america. look at the proposals of a false prophet. i don't know what he has against mexico, but we mexicans love and like the united states. we like to keep this strong partnership that we have. if we're not going to be kicked out of here. we contribute to this nation when we buy from united states represents 10 million u.s. jobs for american citizens. if you stopped nafta, 10 million americans will lose their jobs. >> mr. president, clearly you've been following the american election and the language of the american election and the proposals that one of the candidates has made during this election year.

democracy has not always prospered in latin america. the demagogues have too often flourished in latin america. does the current election campaign in this country and mr. trump's candidacy specifically remind you of any past demagogic candidates? >> yes, we suffered from that. chavez, the carrons, demagogery and i'm surprised this nation is going back to the old days of the gringo fail, the ugly american but going back to populism. this nation is great already. this nation is great because of the work of these millions and millions of workers. yes, some manufacturing jobs were lost. 30% in the last ten years, but what he is not telling the truth

is that 95% growth in the new economy, in the new jobs, the quality jobs which is what u.s. americans have here so it's wrong on every position. it is wrong on going to a trade war with china, with mexico. he doesn't understand that u.s. economy has a deficit with every single economy in the world and he's not going to go to war with everybody. we are frightened outside. i work with 95 former heads of states. we are now in one solid front against this man. this is not the voice of united states. this is not the voice of a compassionate leadership. this is not the voice of a brilliant leader which would be world leader, not only president of the united states. >> yeah.

thank you very much. former president of mexico, vic vicente fox. still ahead, it's been a long time coming. after nearly a decade of stagnation americans have finally gotten a raise. the largest in a generation. what impact will that have on the election. >> could be the curse. >> that in just a minute. remember here at ally, nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. who's with me? i'm in. i'm in. i'm in. i'm in. ♪ ♪

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i know more about isis then the we arapprgenerals do. age. mers. john mccain, a war hero. he's not a war hero, he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured ok. donald trump compared his sacrifices to the sacrifices of two parents who lost their son in war. how would you answer that father? what sacrifice have you made for your country? i think i've made a lot of sacrifices, built great structures. i've had tremendous success, i think... those are sacrifices?

♪ ♪ it's politics, the scary erosion of the pragmatic center. diminished capacity to make sense of choices when governments are there. and the erosion in the policy

tools available for the effects of the next recession. consequential, very damaging, very scary things. >> you know, for all of those who tell the children, time geithner, it's really evident. you're sitting there and you have a chance to go to a zeppelin concert. >> geithner. >> geithner. >> talk about quantitative easing. >> former treasury secretary, timothy geithner -- >> you're going to see geithner. >> his t-shirts. >> when he was asked. killing me. >> the challenge is facing which is dumb. >> time for business before the bell with cnbcs dominic chu. >> americans got bigger paychecks. >> it was huge. one big business headline just

developing the last one. bayer is buying monsantos. >> holy cow. >> that's bayer aspirin. we'll see what happens there. like you guys said, the paycheck thing -- >> don't confuse those two. seriously. keep aspirin in one cupboard and -- >> and the roundup -- >> i've mixed the two before. >> as you can see. >> i hope you haven't. >> like you said, it's a big deal. a big piece for us at cnbc. like you said, the paycheck thing is a huge deal. according to the census bureau, financial well-being for americans in 2015, so what they're doing is looking at a measure called household income. it says the average measure of income now stands at $56,500 per family. now that's important because it's over 5% higher than it was

in 2014 and that's like, mika said, the biggest gain in household income since the census started tracking the data going all the way back to 1967 but it's a little too early to declare a victory just yet. we're still below the levels in the '90s during that dotcom economic boom. the number of americans living in poverty dropped to 13.5%. it was 13.8% the year before. that's the biggest drop in poverty rates. they mentioned poverty yesterday in philly, president obama did. it's all about interpretation. we'll see if people do feel richer than they have in the past. >> dominic chu, thank you very much. we have more on this big economic story just ahead. our next guest says there is an up side of inequality.

we're going to hear that argument when "morning joe" comes right back. using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink see what the power of points can do for your business. bp gives its offshore teams 24/7 support from onshore experts, so we have extra sets of eyes on our wells every day. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better.

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my name is jamir dixon and i'm a locafor pg&e.rk fieldman most people in the community recognize the blue trucks as pg&e. my truck is something new... it's an 811 truck. when you call 811, i come out to your house and i mark out our gas lines and our electric lines to make sure that you don't hit them when you're digging. 811 is a free service. i'm passionate about it because every time i go on the street i think about my own kids. they're the reason that i want to protect our community and our environment, and if me driving a that truck means that somebody gets to go home safer, then i'll drive it every day of the week. together, we're building a better california. more americans are working. more have health insurance. incomes are rising. poverty is falling. and gas is $2 a gallon. i didn't even -- i -- thank you for reminding me! thanks, obama.

>> did he just say -- >> did he just say what? >> did he just say, thank you, obama? >> i say it. we got very good economic news. >> that's what i say every day. >> yeah, thanks, obama. >> he's kind of used to being kicked around. >> he is the change he has been waiting for. >> no, joe. he's proved he's been kicked around so much by republicans. >> the seas aren't rising anymore. the earth is going to heal itself, right? the moses of our time. >> you are taking it out of context. >> he must hurt his arm patting himself on the back. >> he was being ironic. >> joining us best selling author, very ironic, edward conor. his new book is, now listen carefully, "the upside of inequality, how good intentions undermine the middle class." i said that. the up side of inequality. author and columnist of "new york daily news," mike lupika.

>> you said that to pick a fight with me. the whole book is you want to do this, so explain the premise of the book. >> the upside of inequality is. america has a very large pool of highly trained entrepreneurs who are at the cutting edge of innovation creating more growth, more jobs, higher wages than europe and japan by a long -- by a wide, wide margin. that's the real up side of inequality. >> how do you create a system that rewards that type of innovation without punishing those at the bottom who don't have the education, that don't have the family connections, that don't have the ability to go to m.i.t. or to go to harvard or to go to -- >> what about the down side? >> yeah, i think there's three different issues that are important to separate. one is how do you get your most talented people out there trained working as hard as they can taking the risks that they can? >> right. >> that's one issue. i don't think that affects the poor. their success doesn't come at the expense of other people. the second issue, which the book

addresses, is why haven't middle class wages grown? the rich taking more than their fair share? are they taking it away from everybody else? are there other reasons why we don't see wage growth in the middle class. the third is why is poverty attractable. that's less of an issue. >> let's go to the second issue. the second issue seems to be the crux of the debate right now. >> yes. >> which is why have we had stagnation? wh have average wages stayed about the same constant since '71 or'72? >> i argued that in this innovation driven economy there are two constraints to growth. one of them is properly trained talent and the other is entrepreneurial risk taking. you spread risk taking over more workers you'll get higher employment, slower wage growth. we have 40 million foreign born adults, 20 million native born adult children and 20 million children. that's going to have an effect on wage growth. >> right. >> it will have enormous employment growth. we've grown employment twice as fast as japan.

we have created an enormous amount of working class and middle class employment. we haven't done it at higher wages. >> mike, we had -- >> which mike? >> mike barnacle first. we had david brooks on first. he wrote a column talking about how you build the rivers going north of pittsburgh and far fewer workers than there were 30 years ago but the production the same. >> well, yeah. >> technology is as much as it's trained. >> you get steel mills still operating in western pennsylvania that are producing pretty much the same as it did 20 years ago with far fewer employees but it gets to the impact. let me ask you, ed. the impact of the lack of retraining programs state by state that are offered to middle income workers who lose their jobs never to get the similar job back again and technology. the role that that plays in income inequality. >> yeah. i wouldn't -- i don't -- i don't think retraining has shown to be very effective, but i do think

what happens is whirlpool takes a plant and moves it to mexico. and economists on both sides of the aisle says, don't worry about it. the entrepreneurs are coming. they're going to put you back to work. they're going to drive your wages up. they move to california, they outsource their blue collar work to china. the whirlpool engineers who are left are building products and factories for mexican workers. you have a limited amount of properly trained talent. it's a question of what you use that for. it's got to be used for innovation. you can't make for $20 what you used to make for $2 and expect to be prosperous. you can't spread it out over twice as many workers. >> your guy, the president yesterday kind of referenced -- >> my guy, i'm sorry, who's that? >> the president. >> how did -- >> i take no credit for the president. >> how did -- how did a 70-year-old rich guy somehow portray himself as the hero of the middle class in this race?

don't you think that's one of the most fascinating narratives. >> no, it's actually not. when i found out early, never run before, running against somebody who's claiming to be conservative, i was claiming to be conservative. people would automatically say, okay, that one, she's kind of an elitist. people just pick something up and trump has that edge. he's always -- yes, he's a billionaire most likely. he's always been around manhattan. you look at fox news, people don't realize, that's a long island. their stars, hannity, o'reilly, they're all products of long island. they have the grit. >> there's an element of that. he does touch on an issue which is raising a tremendous amount

of anxiety. >> trade? >> trade deficits, low skilled immigration. changing the mix between high skilled and low skilled workers at a time when our economy is driven by high skilled workers. >> do we conservatives have to look at trade deals differently moving forward if we want to stay connected with working class americans that have voted for us in the past? >> we, republicans, have to bring the reagan democrats into our fold the way that trump has done that without alienating the rest of the country. i agree with that. that goes to low skilled immigration and it does go i'd say more to trade deficits than trade, but we have to be a lot more careful and thoughtful than donald trump has been in delivering that message. >> all right. the book is "the upside of inequality." edward conor, thank you very much. >> great to see you, come back. >> mike, thank you as well. >> mike lupika. >> we should mention lupica has another new book out it's tied ld "last man out." it will leave readers breathless and thoughtful. >> i have to tell you this,

seriously. jack scarborough, eight years old -- >> this one will, too. >> we actually read lupica's books. >> we do, seriously. i know i'm sarcastic -- >> i'm going to read -- you should take this home and read it to jack. >> no, this is all for me. all for me. mine. mine. anyway -- >> all the children get around. >> mike's podcast and i'm posting it to twitter right now. >> children, the up side of inequality. >> that -- >> by edward conor. >> it will motivate them. >> the world as we find it. >> get the training. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie picks up the coverage after a quick break.

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with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. there's only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. good morning. i'm stephanie. you're watching msnbc. donald trump under fire. new york state opening an inquiry into his charitable foundation. >> we have been concerned that the trump foundation may have engaged in some impropriety. >> new allegations he used foundation money to buy a six foot portrait of himself. >> former secretary of state colin powell's e-mail exposed. in private messages he lets loose on donald trump calling him a national disgrace and international pariah. trump revealing part of his recent health exam to dr. oz on