witt and louis burgdorf. "morning joe" starts right now. >> he was asked one more time. where was president obama born? and he still wouldn't say hawaii. wouldn't say hawaii. he still wouldn't say america. this man wants to be our next president? when will he stop this ugliness, this bigotry? >> hsillary clinton speaking lat knight at a galla for the congressional spanish caucus institute as the birther issue takes new twists and turns. good morning, everyone. it's friday, september 16th. welcome to "morning joe." wow. with us on set we have managing editor of bloomberg politics and co-host of "with all due respect" mark halperin, and

political reporter for the washington and analyst robert costa here on set. former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner, and in washington pulitzer prize winning columnist and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. joe, here we go. here we go. >> here we go. a question asked of donald trump yesterday, and he brushed it away. his campaign staff quickly came out. jason miller came out and said the quote is mr. trump believes that president obama was born in the united states. that's something that, of course, donald trump's going to need to say himself sooner rather than later. and there also, mika, of course, is the lingering question of where this all began. >> right. >> if you look at fact check.org, it says the birth claim was first advanced by diehard hillary clinton supporters, and you had that scene where barack obama is actually getting in a shouting

match with hillary clinton on the tarmac for actually not answering some basic questions about whether he was a muslim and whether he was -- >> i remember that. >> yeah. so this is once again one of these issues that if it were a different candidate against donald trump, they would be on much higher and more solid ground than, say, where hillary is right now. but, you know, it's going to be -- it's going to dominate the news cycle this weekend unless donald trump gets out today and says it himself instead of having his staff members say it, that, you know, of course barack obama was born in the united states. >> staff members say it and then he sort of refutes it so it's never said. late last night donald trump's campaign spokesman said his candidate believes president obama was born in the united states, and yet donald trump has still yet to say those words himself. the latest chapter began with robert costa's new interview of

trump in this morning's "washington post." in it donald trump refused to say that president obama was born in the united states. oy. quote, i'll answer that question at the right time, trump said. i just don't want to answer it yet. as to whether his campaign manager kellyanne conway was accurate when she recently said that trump now believes obama was born in this country, trump responded, it's okay. she's allowed to speak what she thinks. i want to focus on other things. after trump boasted, i have come up with african-american voters like a rocket ship, robert told him that the birther issue could still hang over his candidacy and trump glared and said i think it hangs over the reporters. then last night trump's campaign released a statement saying what the candidate himself did not say. the statement begins by saying it was hillary clinton's 2008 presidential campaign that first

raised questions about the president's birthplace. trump spokesman then writes, quote, in 2011 mr. trump was finally able to bring this ugly incident to its conclusion by successfully compelling president obama to release his birth certificate. having successfully obtained president obama's birth certificate when others could not, mr. trump believes that president obama was born in the united states. again, the statement is attributed to senior communications adviser to the trump campaign jason miller, not trump himself. joe, when does it end, and what -- for people who were saying why did people keep harping on this, why is this so important? can you explain what really is going on here? >> well, he just needs to repeat what his staff members are saying. first kellyanne conway saying he believes he's born in the united states. i think she said that previously. jason miller saying mr. trump believes president obama was born in the united states.

robert costa, the question goes to you obviously. it was your interview. did you get any sense as to donald trump's reluctance to answer that straightforward question? >> well, the question came up in the course of a wide-ranging interview because kellyanne conway had made this comment about a week ago saying that trump had changed his position. he now believed the president was born in the united states and as someone who has covered trump for the past five, six years on this birther issue and he's raised issues repeatedly also since the president released his long form birth certificate, i thought conway's statement was a development, and i just wanted to see trump's thoughts, and trump and i had a lengthy exchange about this where he in a way clammed up and said he was interested in talking baltimore other issues. i read him conway's statement, he nodded, he said, okay, she can say what she wants to say. i think with trump it's always good to remember when i'm reporting on him, i remind myself this is someone who is

really devoted to the birther issue at one point in his political career. it was not a flirtation for a small period. it was something that dominated his thought and really launched him in national politics. >> mark halperin, this late in the game he's ahead and he's moving ahead in ohio comfortably in some polls this week. he's ahead in florida, in national polls and in a tracking poll he was up by six yesterday. why not just come out and say what his staff is saying and what i think everybody around him knows is the wise thing for donald trump to say? that, of course, barack obama was born in america, and he can even say i proved it by making him release his long form birth certificate or whatever he had him release? >> i think he'll probably say it today, and it will be the latest chapter in i think one of the darkest blots on his record as a public presence leading the birther movement and even in this latest statement being

disingenuous about what his role was. now, both rich lowry and cart kro krauthammer, have columns suggesting trump could win. krauthammer says trump has the ability to remake himself, erase the past. i think the campaign hopes when he speaks out on a friday and finally says what his spokesman says last night, that he would be able to move on from it. i don't think some voters will ever forget. the president of the united states will ever forget. this was one of the things that's done that's the absolute worst, and yet i think the campaign believes they can move on from it. >> mika, he can certainly put it behind him by just coming out today and staying what his staff has been saying about it. >> well, look, i think the bigger point -- i mean, beyond just the kind of damage this talk causes that i just hope at

some point people from the trump campaign and people behind efforts like this understand what it does to our country, but yesterday trump had a speech at the new york i think economic forum. we're going to try and take a look at it. he had work that he is doing to move his campaign forward that he's just stepping on, and he's stepping on his own campaign doing things per taping to poe policy, pertaining to looking presidential. >> mika, i was going to say it's a great point. this morning everybody should be talking about donald trump's economic speech before the economic club, and we should be having a debate, steve rattner and i should be debating -- >> that's what we prepared to do it. >> -- tax cuts versus raising taxes -- right, no, of course, and we will get to that, but the problem is when you just don't do something that's very simple and just say, yes, of course he

was born in the united states, what's your next question? this is not going to affect how -- whether people get back to work in pennsylvania and go back into the mines, et cetera. i mean, it's just too simple. >> and -- >> and i agree with mark halperin, he needs to clean it up and get it behind him. >> it's race-baiting and things that percolate and get worse. by the way, we're also going to talk to the pastor that interrupted him in michigan again because he kind of found a way to bring that back into the headlines. so, again, stepping on himself rather than allowing coverage of policy and perhaps speeches that show improvement and growth to take center stage. so here we go, while trump's campaign claimed last night that the republican nominee, quote z a great service to the president and the country by bringing closure to the issue of president obama's birth place by, quote, successfully compelling president obama to release his birth certificate, in may of 2011 trump continued

to press the issue in the years since. one year later in may of 2012 trump tweeted, in his own words barack obama was born in kenya, raised in indonesia and hawaii. this statement was made in writing in the 1990s. why does the press protect him? is this another watergate? in august of 2012 he tweeted, an extremely credible source has called my office and told me that barack obama's birth certificate is a fraud. a year into the president's second term, december 2013, trump wrote, how amazing the state health director, who verified copies of obama's birth certificate died in a plane crash today. all others lived. are you kidding me? and in september 2014, he wrote, attention all hackers, you are hacking everything else, so please hack obama's college records. asking, destroyed? and check place of birth. trump continued to question president obama's birthplace in

the years since the certificate was released as recently as this year. >> he was perhaps born in kenya. very simple, okay? he was perhaps born in this country but said he was born in kenya, because if you say you were born in kane enya, you got and you gont int into colleges people were doing that. so perhaps he was born in this country and that has a very big chance or who knows? >> his mother was a u.s. citizen born in kansas -- >> can i -- >> was he a natural-born citizen? >> who knows. who knows. who cares right now. we're talking about something else, okay? i have my own theory on obama. some day i'll write a book. i'll do another book, it will do very successfully. >> so the statement released last night by the trump campaign mentioned our show as having pointed out that hillary clinton's 2008 campaign played a role in the start of the birther movement.

a 2011 politico article on the origins of birtherism suggests the answer instead lies with clinton supporters. quote, the answer lies in democratic, not republican, politics, and in the bitter, haex exhausting spring of 2008. at the time the democratic presidential primary was slipping away from hillary clinton and some of her most passionate supporters grasped for something, anything that would deal a frinl reversal to barack obama. and back in 2008, campaign bhanger david plouffe accused them of fearmonger in response to a report that aides to then senator clinton had e-mailed a photo calling attention to the african roots of then senator obama. in fact checking hillary clinton's connection to the birther movement politifact writes there is no record that hillary clinton or anyone in her campaign ever advanced the charge that obama was not born in the united states. they do, however write this,

it's an interesting bit of history that the birther movement appears to have begun with democrats supporting clinton and opposing obama. and fact check.org in 2008 stated that the birth claim was, quote, first advanced by diehard hillary clinton supporter as her campaign for the party's nomination faded, and then there is hillary clinton's march 2008 interview with "60 minutes" where she did not question obama's birthplace but appeared to give a less than convincing answer in regard to his religion. >> you don't believe that senator obama's a muslim? >> of course not. i mean that's, you know, there is no basis for that. you know, i take him on the basis of what he says, and, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that. >> you said you take senator obama at his word that he's not a muslim. you don't believe that he's a muslim. >> no, no. why would i? no, there is nothing to base that on as far as i know.

>> how trumpian is that, mika? at least as far as i know. that is such -- >> something is going on. >> -- that is pretty crazy. as far as i know, gene -- listen, gene, i'm not saying that you have robbed more banks in washington, d.c. there's no evidence, i mean, as far as i know. >> well -- >> you remember that scene, barack obama getting into a fight with hillary clinton on the tarmac in 2008 for her people spreading the muslim rumor. it just -- is this just not one more reminder of why voters are saying a pox on both of their houses? nobody seems to have clean hands. obviously donald trump even in bob costa's interview is doing it recently. it's just -- the fact what are the odds that the person donald trump's running against, her

supporters were entangled in this and actually started it? >> well, you know, i will accept politico's reporting that perhaps the birther thing may have started with or certainly took root with some diehard hillary supporters in the last throes of that campaign, but, you know, let's keep in mind, let's keep this in perspective, you know, any democrats stayed on this issue for about ten seconds, right? i mean, it was gone. donald trump has been a birther for years, and as far as we know, is still a birther, and we also should keep in perspective how many people, many african-america african-americans, many others read this issue, this sowing of suspicion over the president's birthplace which is an attempt to delegitimize the first

african-american president and kind of pretend this whole black president thing never happened or never really happened. so, you know, the fact that it's being talked about now at this stage of the campaign is not a good thing for donald trump, and i don't think there's much blowback on hillary clinton there. i don't think democrats are going to say, oh, yeah, but hillary is a birth too. no, she's not. he is and she's not, and until he makes it clear that he is not, you know, i think it will -- people will continue to ask the question. you know, that said, this is certainly a different race from the race, you know, we thought we were looking at three or four weeks ago, so this is going to be an interesting fall. >> it really is. mark halperin, you have obviously clinton supporters in the death throes of their campaign desperately bringing up, according to politifact and factcheck.org and politico,

actually starting this birther rumor back in 2008. you don't have donald trump though in a primary. you don't have donald trump in desperate straits. you have donald trump actually in a position where people are starting to realize he could actually be elected president of the united states. why in the world would he not answer this question in a way that would allow him to move the ball forward and not be talking about this today? >> well, i think he will, but i hope we don't give him a ton of credit for doing it, particularly if he does it in the way that the statement from jason miller does where he's taking a victory lap for having exposed the truth about where president obama was born and -- >> but, mark, why do you think he's going to do this? you've said now twice you think today he is going to do it. do you have any -- is that based on reporting or is that just your instinct. >> i think he's going to be asked about it today, and i think you wouldn't see a statement like what jason miller put out unless he was ready to rip the band-aid off this,

despite being asked about it. you know, his basic mode over the years is similar to what he said on bob on wednesday night, which is this is what the president wants to talk about, i don't want to talk about it. this is such a dark mark on his role in public life, and he's tried to avoid doing it, but i think he wants to get it done because they're trying to clear the decks of distractions, and they're trying to clear the decks of anything that adds to his image as someone who is intolerant or someone who engages in attacks in this case on the most prominent african-american in american history, and, again, i just say great that he's doing it, but he shouldn't be getting some credit as the statement suggests. this is something he's doing to clear the decks. i'll say again, i don't think this matters to the outcome of the race. i think, as charles krauthammer points out, he has just proven he has an ability to erase his past, and i think for a lot of voters it won't work, but for some it will. >> joe -- >> you know mika, you look at what's --

>> i'm sorry. >> no, go ahead. >> robert. >> i spent about 11 hours with frump, and one thing i just figured out, he's got eight weeks left in the campaign, he has people around him like conway who is on tv a lot, b bann bannon, david, people he likes and respect who gets trump who are helping him out, but it's still trump, joe. it's still trump running on his instincts. this is a candidate who has taken the advice of his team, but he really believes he's caught onto something in this country, and it's him, and he has the judgment, he has the strategy, and it's not so much coming from a playbook or talking points, and this to him has positives and negatives. he think it's pure what he's doing, that it's all trump, but he's not really running a traditional campaign or taking the advice at all times. >> but for those of us who believe that that was a mistake, what he said yesterday to you, and whether or not he chooses to walk it back today, it's another day lost out of a campaign that's down to a relatively short number of days,

distracting everybody from the things he could be saying, could be doing like the economic speech yesterday to try to advance -- >> it's lost in the echo chamber. i'm not sure it's a lost day with voters he cares about. >> joe? >> well, i'm not sure about that. i do know this though, that it is a distraction. that is something that donald trump at least over the last two weeks has avoided. you can go back and look at self-inflicted wounds by donald trump post-democratic convention, and he had a terrible run. over the last two weeks, he's stayed out of his way. he's given more policy speeches. he hasn't had this type of controversy, and it's a real indicator when he stays out of his own way and doesn't have these sort of self-inflicted wounds, what happens? >> uh-huh. >> his poll numbers go up. they're way up in ohio. you know, he's gone up -- they've gone up in florida. they've gone up nationally. they've gone up in tracking

polls. they've gone up in wisconsin. they've gone up in most states. internal tracking there has him down only three points in pennsylvania. so he now has an infrastructure around him, and it is still donald trump's game completely. i agree, mika, with what bob costa says, but if he wants to be elected president of the united states, these are the sort of self-inflicted wounds that he could afford in may that he just can't afford in september and october. >> well, i think they hurt the country too. but if you're talking to him and you're saying, i want you to understand the impact of your statements, talking about or keeping alive the birther issue by just not putting it behind you, just put it behind you, what it does is, for example, we had steve rattner coming in today to talk about his speech at the economic forum and to look at the things he said and to really try and analyze what he might bring to the table, and

instead we have spent 21 minutes talking about this, and steve is going to be talking now about how many ways each candidate lies and who lies more because lies are taking precedence over policy and performance. so it's frustrating, and it's not us. >> admitting he's wrong about this is -- would be for any candidate a huge moment of weakness. he's going to have to say he's wrong about something he grew to national political prominence on. >> he's up against a candidate who has said she's made mistakes many times and she's still standing. it's called being human. women are realistic. men are bombastic, and he is really like got to tone down that side of things because i'll tell you right now -- >> listen -- >> -- being a completely combatively defense to the point you're not telling the truth anymore, ultimately i don't think that works, and i think in this respect it hurts a lot more than just his campaign.

>> i really agree. i agree with you, mika, that this is bad for political dialogue. it's bad for so the many reasons. i do think though i agree with mark halperin today he'll probably step away from this because you had a very clear message from his spokesperson, jason miller, last night. i suspect he walks this back and will not talk about it again the rest of the race. says, you know what? however he's going to frame it to try to make it look like it's a position of strength, he'll say it and move on because they do understand that since he's avoided these type of controversies over the past couple of weeks, their numbers have shot up in the polls. they understand finally that the general election campaign is far different than the primary campaign, and the sort of things that would put blood in the water and, you know, get things going and actually help him out in the prescribe marimary, hurt

general. that's why i agree with mark, i think you're going to see him move forward on this today and then it will be up to the voters to decide whether they can get past it or not over the next couple months. i suspect if he has a good debate performance in the first debate, there aren't going to be a lot of people talking about this, and if hillary clinton has a good debate performance in the first debate performance, there aren't going to be a lot of people talking about deplorabl s deplorables. >> we'll see. still ahead on "morning joe" senator bernie sanders is here on set. plus chuck todd, mike murphy, reverend al sharpton, who donald trump says is a secret fan, we'll fact check that with him. and guess what? if you're in new york, where are you going to be tonight? rattner, are you going? there's a gig tonight at 8:15 in new york city. you can stop by prohibition on the upper west side to catch the show or watch a live stream of the event at facebook.com sla/j

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27 past the hour. yesterday donald trump did talk taxes focusing on how much americans are paying as they work to sell his ambitious economic vision. speaking at the economic club of new york, trump said he would create 25 million jobs, cut tax rates for individuals, and eliminate a number of regulations. he also took a page out of former opponent jeb bush's playbook boosting his goal for economic growth to 4% despite his own team projecting a growth of 3.5%. >> it's time to start thinking big once again. that's why i believe it's time to establish a national goal of reaching 4% economic growth. and my great economists don't want me to say this, but i think we can do better than that.

now they're upset. they'll be very upset, but i think we can do and maybe substantial bibettly better tha. not one single idea she's got will create one net american job or create one new dollar of american wealth for our workers. the only thing she can offer is a welfare check. that's about it. our plan will produce paychecks, and they're going to be great paychecks for millions of people now unemployed or underemployed. >> steve rattner, did he put on the table concepts that work in the long run? >> he put on the table a somewhat more reasonable plan than his last plan which would have involved truly massive tax cuts and blowing holes in the budget larger than we've ever seen before, rewarded the rich,

created loopholes for business. he scaled it back a bit, but he still hasn't really paid for it. some of the ways he talks about paying for it are to cut exactly the kinds of spending we don't want to cut if you want to grow the economy, which is the so-called domestic discretionary spending, the things that builds our roads, invests in health research, things like that. and he doesn't get his budget numbers to work. the idea of 4% growth is -- everybody would like 4% growth. very few serious economists believe that's possible anymore just for the simple math that our country's labor force isn't growing as fast as it was in the past, and so i think he held out basically for the american people a bunch of promises that are simply promises that he's not going to be able to keep, at least through that plan. >> bob costa, did you see anything else in the speech that makes a headline to you? >> i think looking behind trump you saw larry kudlow, former cnbc host, and you see around trump also a lot of supply side

economists and steve moore is another person who advised his economic speech. but trump at his instinct, his real position is more populist economics. he's okay, it seems, with infrastructure spending. when you talk to people on capitol hill, they say he's the kind of person who could maybe make a deal on taxes or would be willing on entitlement reform to think a little bit out of the paul ryan box, jack kemp, larry kudlow box. >> but it was close to a pure supply side speech. >> because they're writing the speech. >> and the idea that simply cutting taxes will create so much growth -- >> it is a classic center right with a sprinkle of populism. it checks the box he needs to checks. this unites economic conservatives. he needs to win the election. democrats don't like it and they see holes in it in terms of both its priorities and its plausibility -- >> putting politics aside, was it a good speech? >> the policies he's proposing

have some problems with it if you don't believe in supply-side economics and it's part of an overall plan of i want to do new spending. he's for universal health care and twice as much infrastructure spending as hillary clinton, but there's no one on the right i think who has a more specific plan at this point or a plan that's better thought out if you believe in that school of economics. so it's fine in terms of what a republican presidential candidate might offer up in terms of specificity and i'll just go back to the politics. this checks the box he needs to check. steve doesn't like it and i agree with steve there are holes in it but it's good enough to unite economic conservatives to help him win. >> coming up nbc's kasie hunt joins the political round table. but "the new york times" reporter jeremy peters with a deeper dive that shows polling between trump and clinton in a dead heat. [ "on the road again," by willie nelson ] ♪ on the road again [ rear alert sounds ] [ music stops ]

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pastor for talking politics in the pulpit, donald trump is hitting back. yesterday he accused the pastor herself of having a political agenda. >> hillary failed on the economy, just like she's failed on foreign policy. everything she touched didn't work out, nothing. now hillary clinton -- >> mr. trump, i invited you here to thank us for -- >> oh, oh okay. >> not give a political speech. >> okay. that's good. and i'm going to go back on to flint. okay. when she got up to introduce me she was so nervous she was shaking, and i said, wow this is sort of strange and then she came up, so she had that in mind. there's in question about it. she was so nervous. she was like a nervous mess, so i figured something -- i figured something was up really. >> his latest target is a pastor in flint, michigan, who respectfully asked him not to use her pulpit for political attacks.

he called her a nervous mess. that's not only insulting, it's dead wrong. reverend faith green-timmons is not a nervous mess. she's a rock for her community in trying times. she deserves better than that, and flint deserves better. in fact, so does america. >> wow, joe. i mean, i think this is a little bit more of what we were talking about in the first block of the show, which is -- >> well, okay, but come on. come on. >> what? >> we have to call it out. we have to call it out -- >> call what out? >> when donald trump is being treated differently than everybody -- is bill kristol on the set? let's introduce bill kristol. so, bill, how rich is it for you, and far be it from you or me, especially over the past six months, to defend donald trump in any way whatsoever, but how rich is it for you to have hillary clinton saying, oh, my

god, somebody used the pulpit in a chuvrch for political reasons when democrats have been doing that for years in traditionally black churches? it's just what democratic candidates and presidents have done. and do you believe or does anybody in this whole wide world believe hillary clinton would have been stopped if she were attacking republicans for what republicans have not done? >> you know, that's true, and trump showed his characteristic gracelessness in attacking the pastor the next morning in a vulgar and false way claiming she'd been nervous or something like that, which there's no evidence of. she was quite graceful in her own introduction of trump. having said that, i think the clinton campaign, i never thought i would be lamenting the failures of the clinton campaign on national television but what are they doing? she comes back from an illness. she's speaking to a serious dinner. she should give a speech about her agenda for america.

once you have the sound bites attacking trump in there, that's all that gets covered. so people have no idea what hillary clinton's agenda is out there. i have been trying to ask people, well, whatever you think of trump, people vaguely know what he's going to do, build a wall, renegotiate the trade deals, rebuild the military, keep us out of wars. what is hillary clinton's agenda? a change election i think it's dangerous for her to be talking about disquauling trump. the media will talk about the birtherism issues. surrogates can raise that. why is she even raferzing theis issue approximates. >> this is donald trump stepping on his own headline. >> let him do it. >> him attacking her in the way he did allowed hillary clinton, who, by the way, joe, was not saying it was terrible, oh, my gosh, i have never attacked from the pulpit. she was saying that donald trump attacked this nice pastor, and

that was kind of inappropriate, and she said in a measured, controlled, very elegant way. >> but let third parties do that. i mean, when a candidate steps in and makes it a candidate versus candidate issue, then it just looks like partisanship. >> it's appalling. >> trump is appalling but the best person to say trump is appalling is other republicans, impartial media -- >> i completely agree with bill. >> observers on the outside. honestly i can't believe at this point -- >> i do think she needs to talk about her value more. she needs to talk about what she brings to the table. >> change, what changes will she bring about. it's a change election. this is an honest question, not a political question. what three things would hillary clinton do to improve americans' lives? >> yeah. eugene -- >> well, you know -- >> go ahead, joe. >> that's the thing, mika. we've talked about it before. saw charles krauthammer on a couple nights before, and he was saying that the most remarkable thing about these campaigns are how free they are from policy, but as bill kristol points out, you can actually say whether you like them or you think they're

deplorable or not, americans know what donald trump is going to try to fight for if he gets elected. hillary clinton is having trouble because there's always a controversy that she seems to have to answer every day, and in this case i completely agree with bill. talk about your policies, let the press attack trump, let your surrogates attack trump, and start giving americans a reason to believe they have something to lose if she doesn't get elected president on policy instead of just fear. >> well, gene, you write in "the washington post," dear democrats, stop freaking out. if democrats want to beat donald trump, they need to get past the freak out stage and get to work. in a sane and just world, this presidential race would be a walkover, but it's not. voters have been informed of trump's ignorant and outrageous statements, his real and potential conflicts of interest,

his bankruptcies, his hucksterism, his untempered temperament and all the other factor that is make him unthinkable as president. don't blame the media for the fact that many people say they plan to vote for him anyway. instead, if you want to stop trump, focus on the fundamentals, and get busy. angst doesn't help. energizing the democratic party's reliable voters, especially in crucial states, can make all the difference. gene? >> well, you know, i was traveling most of this week, and whenever i ran into democrats, what i basically heard was pretty full stage freak out mode at the tightening of the polls, and, you know, i just think people should look at the fundamentals, and i think there are two sets of fundamentals that are really important this year. number one, something that bill just said, which is this is a change election, and so, yes, hillary clinton should give us a

sense of the change she would bring to the country that would benefit voters, and that is, i think, really important. the other fundamental is that democrats do start a presidential election year with an electoral college edge that is no good unless it's exploited, right? i mean, they start with a number of pretty safe states, but you have to go out and win them, and to win them you have to energize the kind of obama coalition that came out loyally for him two times. they've got to come out loyally for hillary clinton. so there's work to do with young voters, work to do with minorities, there's a lot of work to do. >> joe? >> bill kristol, let me ask you generally a question i asked a couple weeks ago when i said i thought the race was a tossup. i was sort of standing alone at that time. it looks more like a tossup now. let's look at 30,000 feet and let me ask you where do you

think we stand in the middle of september as the baseball pennant race begins in earnest and we get moving towards the final stages of this presidential campaign. where do we stand? advantage clinton still? advantage trump? or is it a tossup? >> i guess mild advantage clinton. she had a ten-game lead and now it's a three-game lead or something like that in the division, and it's shrinking. one of the few times i have been right this cycle for a short period. three weeks ago i think the average was she was up six points. i said i thought the failure to put trump away when he had those horrible two weeks after the democratic convention, attacked the khan family and so forth, might come back to haunt the clintons, and the failure of her to develop a positive message of change would hurt her. it's tightened, and, no, i think it's a competitive race. probably two to one that hillary wins but only two to one and we have a big debate coming up. the bar for him is so low.

if he just is up there, seems reasonable, seems a tiny bit gracious, if you can find that somewhere deep in his soul to say one nice thing to secretary clinton and just seem like a guy who would not blow things up in the oval office. i think that mexico trip helped him. he goes to mexico, we can microcriticize it, but basically he seemed like a guy who you could imagine having a meeting with a foreign leader and not destroying our relations with that country. >> bill kristol, thank you. coming up, kids say the darnedest things. donald trump, jr. talks about why his dad shouldn't release his taxes, and what did he say about -- yeah. i'm not saying it. former adviser to president bush mark mckinnon joins the table, and from ""the washington examiner"" kristin anderson joins pupus.

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donald trump, jr. faced more scrutiny yesterday when a remark he made about hillary clinton was taken as a reference to the holocaust. >> media has been her number one surrogate in this. without the media, this wouldn't even be a contest, but the media has built her up. they've let her slide on every indiskrepen si, on every lie, on

every dnc game trying to get bernie sanders out of this thing. i mean, if republicans were doing that, they'd be warming up the gas chamber right now. >> the jewish advocacy group, the anti-defamation league, admonished trump. quote, trivialization of the holocaust and gas chambers is never okay. we hope you understand the sensitivity and hurt of making holocaust jokes. we hope you retract. in a conversation with nbc news, trump, jr. said in no way was it san anti-semitic remark, suggesting he meant it as a terms of ex preparatipression o punishment and he usually uses the electric chair. he also stands behind the sentiment that clinton gets a pass from the media. joe? >> well, i mean, you know, first of all, you can look at the statement and it's obviously gas chamber, it's just a reference

you want to stay away from. it's just like when everybody is accusing other candidates of being nazis or being hitler-like. i think we've all made a rule, let's stay away from all nazi references, first of all. secondly, it's not true that the media has given hillary a free ride. "the new york times" has torn her to shreds on the e-mails. there's a reason why hillary clinton has a very low disapproval rating and a reason why her honest and trustworthy numbers in some polls are even higher than donald trump's and that's because she's been hammered in the press a good bit as well. >> the media is not supposed to be giving rides anyway. >> right. >> you know, on our show it's very clear, you're a republican, i'm a democrat, all that. people are pretty clear as to what our sort of political ideology and backgrounds and world views are. >> right. >> and i have been tougher on

hillary clinton -- >> you've been brutal. >> -- than one would expect and have always -- >> no, you've been very brutal on hillary clinton. the clinton campaign has thought for over a year you have been unfair, too harsh on them, just like the trump campaign have thought that about both of us over the past three or four months, but you don't give anybody a free ride, and i don't think either one of these candidates have been given a free ride. that said, both campaigns know that their base supporters think the media is extraordinarily unfair and holds their own candidate to a higher standard. so donald trump, jr. going out and saying that on a radio show minus the gas chamber remark and complaining to the referees, that's probably good politics as far as ginning up the base, whether you're hillary clinton saying it or whether you're donald trump saying it. >> all right. coming up at the top of the hour, donald trump has never been closer in the polls with

hillary clinton than he is right now. is that why he had his campaign put out a statement saying he now believes president obama was born in america? we're going to talk about that with nbc's chuck todd and hallie jackson when "morning joe" comes right back. >> as some of you heard, the state of hawaii released my official long form birth certificate. hopefully this puts all doubts to rest. tonight i'm prepared to go a step further. tonight for the first time i am releasing my official birth video. ♪ ion

for its citizens. how stupid are the people of the country? we're building a wall-- he's a mexican. you gotta see this guy "i don't know what i said, i don't remember." you're living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs. what the hell do you have to lose? if you look at his wife, she had nothing to say. she probably, maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured okay, i hate to tell you. you've called women you don't like "fat pigs," "dogs," "slobs," and "disgusting animals." she's a disgusting pig, right? like to punch him in the face. they're losers. loser. loser. disgusting. stupid. you can't lead this nation if you have such a low opinion for its citizens. what if 30,000 people download the new app? we're good.

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can i mess your hair up? i'll be gentle. >> the answer is yes, but the people in new hampshire where i'm going to be in about an hour from now, i hope they're going to understand. >> did you say yes? >> go ahead.

>> donald trump, everybody! >> well, that's funny. >> wow. >> that's cute. >> look at that. >> i was going to say i did that, but it didn't go as well for me. >> you did that? >> yeah, fallon, he just went in there. he just went in there. thanks a lot, alex. i couldn't get it to move. oh, well. >> fallon was more vigorous. . >> it's friday, september 16th. get that off. he was not a candidate then. >> very brave. >> wow. >> hello. >> hi. >> so the hair is real. fallon showed us that the hair is real. >> we already knew. >> we already knew. >> america now knows. >> with us we have economic analyst steve rattner. political reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc

political analyst robert costa. msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt. pulitzer prize winning column from "the washington post," eugene robinson, and nbc news political director and moderator of "meet the press" and host of "mpt daily," chuck todd. i guess our headlines again are the birther. there should be so many different headlines today than the ones we're talking about. >> well, actually, the thing is if you really want to talk about what's going to change the impact of the country, what's going to impact the way we live, what's going to impact the way we're viewed across the world, i think this hour we should look at the state of the race, and this hour if you look at the state of the race, it is definitely tightening, and it's tightening in a lot of states. obviously we saw trump going ahead in ohio. we saw him going ahead in florida. internal polls in both camps show it tightening in states

like pennsylvania and wisconsin. you look at national tracking polls, some have donald trump up by as much as five, six points. listen, i think and i agree with gene robinson, i agree there is always a natural built-in advantage for democrats in the electoral college. that's something that donald trump is going to have to overcome, but right now if you're in politics, you worry about, at least i did as a candidate, you don't worry about the specific numbers because all the polls, you never know if the polls are -- but you look at trend lines, and the trend lines over the past week or two -- >> absolutely. >> -- have been very bad for hillary clinton, very good for donald trump. she be has to change the dynamic of this race if she wants to stay ahead in any polls, and right now there's a question on whether she knows how to do that. >> let's look at these numbers. new national polls could not be any tighter for trump and clinton. in a fox news poll trump leads clinton by just one point, 46%,

45%. when third-party candidates are included, clinton has a one-point advantage, 41% to 40%. yesterday's "new york times"/cbs news polls were very similar. in the four way the two were tied at 42% apiece. and clinton is leading the head-to-head, 46% to 44%. and though voters think trump would be better at handling the economy, 51% to 43%, they found that clinton would be better equipped to handle terrorism and national security, immigration, and foreign policy. and yet the problems that have plagued them remain. neither candidate is viewed by voters as sharing their values. when it comes to the question of honesty, nearly two-thirds of voters find trump and clinton untrustworthy. but voters found clinton to be the far safer choice than trump. in a quinnipiac university poll, voters found trump more honest but when it comes to having good leadership skills and the right

experience, clinton won out on being level-headed, clinton was favored by 36 points. and new state polling in the white house race shows hillary clinton rapidly losing ground in georgia. trump has pulled a four-point lead, 46% to 42%, after being tied with clinton last month. gary johnson gets 10%. in iowa a new poll gives trump an eight-point lead in a state that president obama carried twice, 45% for trump, 37% for clinton, 8% for johnson. in ohio trump has gone to a three-point lead after trailing by four in that same poll in july. now 42%, trump, 39%, clinton. in virginia, a state where clinton has posted big leads, the university of mary washington poll has her at 40% with trump only three points behind at 37%. johnson at 8%. and independent candidate evan mcmullen at 3% ahead of the green party's jill stein. and a shocking poll in michigan

from "the detroit free press," wxyz tv where clinton has fallen hi five points since august to 38% and trump has gained three points to reach 35%. clinton's double digit margin cut down to just three points. joe? >> tell you what, chuck todd, i'm looking at three numbers. first of all, how does it make you feel when you see yet another poll, if you're in the clinton campaign, where your candidate is seen as less honest and trustworthy than donald trump? this is the second national poll that's shown hillary clinton is trusted less, is seen as less honest than donald trump. the second poll. the numbers, of course, are horrific on both sides of that, but two other states, chuck, and it's critical because of the region, we go to the midwest. in iowa, an eight-point swing in this latest poll.

it's just one poll, it's one snapshot, but we're talking trends. an eight-point swing in an iowa poll. an eight-point -- seven-point swing in an iowa poll. an eight-point swing in a michigan poll. i'm sure you agree with me, we can expect states like wisconsin and pennsylvania now to tighten up significantly as well. >> no, absolutely. you know, in fact, if you take -- we did this yesterday on "mpt daily," if you take romney's electoral college number of 206 and you just add in the states that we've seen this week that have had trump ahead, so that's ohio, iowa, florida, throw in i think nevada, and he's suddenly at 266. you know, and that's without pennsylvania. >> wow. >> that's without wisconsin. that's without virginia. there is a very -- the fact is if he does this path, there is a very narrow path for him without a pennsylvania or virginia. i didn't think there could be, but if you cobble together what

he's cobbled together, and the states i mentioned, this is where has always stayed a little bit higher, even in his bad days. it's got -- if you look at all of those states, they have uneven economic recovery. usually they're states with a large rural vote. iowa, ohio, nevada, new hampshire all have some form of that. so there's a pattern here, and if you look at it, there is a path, and if you're the clinton campaign, you have to be extraordinarily concerned. >> chuck, why is -- i mean, we certainly understood why donald trump was in a freefall after the democratic convention when he just couldn't stop from attacking a gold star mom and a family. we understand that hillary clinton has had some problems over the past couple of weeks, but the floor has just like fallen out from underneath her politically. why do you think she is in freefall right now?

>> look, i think it's a little -- i don't think it's one thing. i think it's the accumulation. so you have on one hand you have all of the stuff that is -- a lot of the baggage she had coming into this campaign that they just kept postponing on how to deal with it. the biggest one being the foundation, right? but the foundation and e-mails all culminated. so you had that issue. obviously, the medical thing was on one hand unforeseen. on the other hand, how they told us about pneumonia fed into an e-mail foundation story line of what are they hiding, how come they're not telling us everything? but i think also this is a campaign that i think incorrectly believed just being against trump was enough to motivate millennials, motivate young latinos, motivate african-americans, and i think what they're finding out right now, that's not enough, right? it's not enough just to be anti-trump, just like for john kerry it wasn't enough to be anti-bush or for mitt romney it

wasn't enough to be anti-obama. what are they voting for you? why are they voting for you? i think that's as much of the problem as anything. >> well, let's -- kasie hunt, i mean, that's, again, about hillary clinton sort of being able to communicate effectively her value, which just seems to not punch through. there's a lot of attacking going on. does the campaign have any type of strategy moving forward that gets us beyond the sort of bickering, i guess, is the word? >> i think the clinton campaign is very well aware of this. when i talk to clinton officials privately, they've been arguing for the last couple of weeks that they need to start getting out there and having her make more of a case for herself. they feel like they did effectively prosecute this case against trump, but they know that they somehow have to do more more. she was supposed to be out doing that this week. she, of course, got sidelined. i think you will see her make a pitch to millennial voters. she's supposed to do that in philadelphia.

the challenge for them is how do they convince them that the system that democrats have sort of built over the course of the last couple of decades will work for them? a lot of millennials are coming out of school with all this debt, all these issues bernie sanders talked about, they're just not convinced right now that hillary clinton represents somebody that's, you know, capable of changing a system that she's been so much a part of. >> yeah. bob? >> when you talk to republicans on capitol hill, there's a thought that the millennial vote is something that donald trump at the head of the republican party, maybe he can't win. maybe it's going to be very difficult for him with his temperament, his pitch to win over those voters, but can the gop prevent those voters from coming out for secretary clinton? >> it's a question of whether or not they show up i think more than anything. >> and you just mentioned temperament and pitch, and i'm going to try and say something carefully because if a man said what i'm about to say, i might not take it the right way. >> let's hear it. >> but i think that trump does well by his followers on his

performance. he calls it himself a performance. and he's very big on stage and strong and has sort of a large voice. and i actually thought hillary clinton was incredibly effective in the sound bite we just showed where she was actually talking about the pastor in flint, but in terms of temperament and pitch, sometimes really taking a moment to speak clearly to the audience and to hold back, use pauses, use thoughts, use a measured calm, dramatic approach, it is performance, yes, is very, very effective. and i think she's actually really good when she's not imitating a male candidate screaming on stage. i think that she is extremely strong when she actually takes a break from all that and really gets within herself and speaks

from her heart with her own very kind of elegant, maybe even softer, but not less strong voice. >> i totally agree with that. i don't think hillary clinton can or should try to take trump on on his own ground in the sense of shouting and -- >> why would she want to. >> i'm not even sure hillary clinton -- i'm relatively sure hillary clinton shouldn't even be the one to take donald trump on on -- >> she's got biden. she's got obama. she's got the boys to go do what boys do. sometimes women do things like speak effectively better. >> when she does what you just described, which is to speak in a calm, low voice, to use pauses and do all that, i think she's very, very effective, and to some of the discussion we had a little bit earlier, she has policy plans that actually make sense -- >> right. >> -- that would address the problems. nobody seems to know anything about them and i think she could talk more about them. >> she said this straight up yesterday. one of the things she talked about in that speech and you mentioned the bite where she seemed more reflective.

she spent a couple things at home thinking about all the things she's done for children and families and she got up on stage yesterday and said explicitly, i am not a showman. >> joe? >> that is the strongest message. i i'll tell you, gene, you said democrats don't need to freak out. right now the clinton campaign is running an advertising campaign which is a very effective ad campaign except for the fact it actually lowers expectations for donald trump so much that they actually set him up in a good position. >> i know. >> for the debate. because they're saying he's crazy, he's wild, he's unstable, he's this. i understand that strategy, but he shows up and he looks rational on the debate stage, he's already won the expectations game. >> uh-huh. >> don't you think hillary clinton's camp and hillary clinton needs to start saying, listen, i'm not good at this. she said to us in an interview and it was very effective, i'm not the politician in the family. bill is great at this stuff. i'm not good at this stuff at all.

and why don't you add on top of that, hey, listen, donald trump has been on tv, prime time, for over a decade. it's his medium. like tens of millions of people have watched this man through the years. i've been reading boring books in chappaqua on child care and how we fix the -- you know, because i think they're doing the expectations thing backwards. they need to start talking about what a great showman he is and how television is his medium and how he is going to just wipe the floor with everybody like he did in the republican debate because he's so great on tv. >> well, as the debate approaches, i think you are right that clearly they should want to flip those expectations, right, and say it's going to be poor hillary going into the lion's den against this television monster who, you know, wiped the floor with 16 of the republican party's best and brightest and on the debate

stages. but she's going to do her best to in a plain-spoken way tell the american people what she's going to do for them, right? and i do kind of come back to that, okay, so what is she going to do to make people's lives better? you know, you understand the arc of the campaign thus thus far. it has been very good for hillary clinton to have people talking about donald trump and how crazy he is and how, you know, and how wild his ideas are and how offensive, how bigoted, but there does -- you know, there are phases in a campaign, and i think this phase as we go up to the debate, we're now in a different phase, and it calls for a slightly different kind of message. >> joe, when -- >> i'd love to get your input, chuck, on this because i think if hillary clinton could find her version of what peggy noonan

helped george w. bush do at the '88 convention where bush was clupg clunky talking. he wasn't an articulate guy but peggy wrote that brilliant line and he delivered it well. i'm a quiet man but i listen when quiet people talk or something along those lines. it seems to me hillary clinton needs to have her version of that. i'm not good at this. i'm a clunky politician, but i do know how to get you back to work and rebuild your communities and protect americans, et cetera, et cetera. you look skeptical on that front. >> well, look, here is the good news for the clinton campaign. one thing we've learned about hillary clinton following her through the years is when she's down in the polls is when she starts becoming a better campaigner, right? there is sort of whatever it is about when she's a front-runner, the facade goes up. if perhaps this moment, perhaps if it can get her to have that

feeling that she had basically after the new hampshire primary in 2008 -- >> exactly what i was thinking. >> whatever it is where she has a trigger in her head that says, you know what? i got nothing. her and janet joplin. freedom is another word for nothing left to lose. whatever. something like that because the facade, the front-runner facade that she carries with her, that she's carried with her this entire campaign -- >> she's terrible. >> it's terrible. it is terrible. she's a terrible front-runner. >> she is the worst -- she proved it in 2008 and she's proving it now. she's the worst front-runner that's ever been but she ran, and, mika, we talked about this repeatedly in 2008, she ran a remarkable campaign once her back was up against the wall against barack obama, and we said it time and again, that everybody would say, if she loses texas it's over. she won texas. if she loses ohio, it's over. she won ohio. if she loses pennsylvania, it's over, and barack obama is going to have almost a month there and they're going to love him. no, she won it by like nine, ten

points. i mean, we'll see what happens now that her back is against the wall. maybe she plays it a little less safe and maybe she gets the same sort of push that she got back in '08. >> joining us from miami hallie jackson. what can we expect from trump on the trail today? >> reporter: well, listen, guys, he's in battleground florida, it's miami-dade county. he's doing a lot better than the last time he was in south florida. as polls have shown this week, he's up by hillary clinton by about three points. i imagine when we see him at his rally here later tonight, we'll see him trying to feed off that energy just like earlier in the week. he was in ohio and he was, again, kind of like retro vintage trump. the same kind of trump that we saw back during the primaries partly, i think, because he's doing better in the polls. so he's coming here, he's going to meet with some haitian-american community leaders, trying to do some outreach there and presumably, of course, hitting hillary

clinton and bill clinton with that group of leaders. he's also earlier in the day going to be in washington to do a couple meet and greets. we are told he is also going to do a visit to the rnc to try to touch up some of the relationships there. so a busy day for trump and through it all we're looking at it through the lens of this birther issue. will he talk about it today? she's the question, right? even though his spokesperson, as we've been talking about, came out with that statement, even though his surrogates have said that trump does believe president obama was born in the u.s., we can't underscore enough that trump has not said it. until trump himself says something, you can't really take it to the bank. i don't think today, if i had to guess, would be the day he's going to bring it up. just given the settings he's in and given where he is, but wesus afternoon when he lands. >> hallie jackson, thank you. chuck todd. thank you. what do you have on sunday on "meet the press"? >> we have tim kaine, obviously the running mate, and also john

kasich. >> interesting. >> and i think from the trump campaign kellyanne conway. i have to say this birther issue, this -- if somebody can explain the political strategy behind this for trump, go right ahead because i don't get it. >> self-destructive. >> self-destructive. >> all right. eugene robinson, thank you as well. and still ahead on "morning joe." >> i'll leave it to him when to do it. >> it's no surprise that trump thinks the rules don't apply to him. he never does. but the american people are not going to buy a big pig in a pok. he should release his taxes voluntarily, but since he won't then we should pass the presidential tax transparency act and make him release those taxes. >> paul ryan and elizabeth warren actually agree on something. donald trump -- >> and, mika, can i ask you a question? what's a pig in a poke? it's just an expression i never

really got? does anybody know? >> i'm too young for this. >> what? >> i'm too young for this. >> is it dirty? >> no, it's not dirty. >> i think that's an oklahoma thing maybe. she's from oklahoma. maybe that's a boomer sooner thing. pig in a poke. tell me on twitter @joenbc, educate me. >> i don't think -- you're going to get so educated. okay. >> what is a pig in a poke. >> no. >> because the american people are not going to buy it. >> you shouldn't have done it. >> i can answer that question. >> rattner. >> it's an english colloquialism. it means something is sold or bought without the buyer knowing the true nature or value especially when buying without inspecting the item before hand. >> that makes sense. if you don't see the tax returns, how do you know what your buying? there's no law, correct, that says that somebody who is a business owner, right, can have to discontinue that as president, right? >> yeah. there is no law.

>> so we're not going to see the tax returns. >> there may need to be a law -- >> medical records either. >> it's like i always say, mika, i don't think the american people at the end of the day are going to buy a pig in a poke. so what's coming up next? >> well, your band is playing tonight. >> oh, stop. >> i'm serious. >> are we? >> you should go. it's morning joe music at prohibition on the upper west side. >> i better call the band. >> the band might want to know they have a gig tonight. it's going to be good. rattner, are you going to be there? kasie? >> i'm going to live stream the show. >> come on. >> live on facebook. >> thank you, bob costas. >> we're doing it on friday night tonight. come on now. >> friday is hard. >> you're going down? it's cool. it's going to be so much fun. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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the polls have tightened in the presidential race and the lack of details about the candidates' health have raised the subject of transparency in the presidential character test again. a new national poll from quinnipiac university conducted during the fallout from hillary clinton not disclosing her pneumonia diagnosis shows that 54% of voters believe that

donald trump is more transparent. 37% -- >> mika, stop right there. just stop right there. 54% to 37%. donald trump has been proclaimed by the national media and by hillary clinton's camp as the least transparent candidate in modern american political history, and most of the evidence suggests that he is. look at that number though. look at the honest and trustworthy number where hillary clinton is seen as less honest and trustworthy than donald trump. the clinton campaign is obviously doing something horribly wrong right now that they need to reverse. >> i really, i truly believe it is -- >> well, i think this is if you needed any more evidence about the impact of the last week and the health issues and avoiding the press, the press pool, there it is. >> yeah. and it's the ability to connect and be available that it boils

down to. i think it's something he's really natural about, and it's not for her. but more transparency issues were raised last night. the fact that trump is the only candidate who does not travel on the same plane with the reporters who cover him was highlighted. when he left those reporters behind as their plane was delayed, he then mocked them at the top of his rally. >> i have really good news for you. i just heard that the press is stuck on their airplane. they can't get here. i love it. so they're trying to get here now. they're going to be about 30 minutes late. they called us and said, could you wait? i said absolutely not. let's get going. right? >> and trump breaking tradition by not disclosing his tax returns also came under scrutiny when the candidate's son, donald trump, jr. suggested that releasing them would be a distraction. >> you think? >> because he's got a 12,000 page tax return that would

create probably 300 million independent financial auditors out of every person in the country asking questions that are going to distract from his main message. >> joining us now, former adviser to president george w. bush and co-creator and executive producer of "the circus" on showtime, mark mckinnon. "new york times" reporter jeremy peters and in washington columnist at the washington examiner, kristin anderson. >> i think it's almost baked in the cake. donald trump has steadfastly refused to release his tax returns. he steadfastly refused to release his medical records and all the trend lines are in his direction right now. i mean, i will tell you, though i don't think it's great for america, if i were running his campaign, i would also tell him do not talk to print reporters anymore and do the sort of long form interviews you did with bob costa because it always gets you in trouble.

do not go and do free form radio interviews because it always gets you in trouble. look at the campaigns of barack obama in 2008 and 2012. they didn't open barack obama up to a lot of interviews. he shaped his own message, he framed his own message, and you didn't get a lot of free shots at him so he didn't make a lot of his own mistakes. i actually think trump has actually been hurt by being as accessible at times. >> it reminds me of john mccain and the straight talk express when they shot down john mccain doing what he did best because he was constantly getting off's meteorologist, but you're you're. the irony that people see donald trump as being more transparent, just a week ago hillary clinton finally brought the press on the plane, and i was there and she was answering questions. she was answering tough questions. it was not little softball fest, and then she had this incident with the medical issue, and so suddenly -- it's a transparency

arms race but right now he's winning that race even though he's the one that hasn't disclosed his taxes and he's the one that's not taken the press with him right now. >> why, mark? again, how can he be winning the transparency argument against hillary clinton by such a wide stretch when most press members would say it is an objective fact that he's been the least transparent candidate in modern american history? >> well, i think because there is decades of transparency issues with the clintons, and what's happened is in the last week or two is it has completely reinforced the idea that the clintons are obsessed about privacy, obsessed about keeping the press away, and it's just compounded those issue that is were already -- perceptions that were already out there, joe. >> okay. this is getting kind of shallow, but i'm just going to say that i think it honestly is how the information is handled, and like bill clinton, when things, you know, got to him, he never seemed rattled.

he just sort of laid back, talked in a low voice, and was just totally cool, and donald trump looks like he's completely unrattled. oh, no, i almost did -- kristin soltis anderson, am i too -- am i glossing over the issues? but if you look at these poll numbers, it's like major things are being overlooked by voters as it pertains to donald trump. they like him despite. >> there's been a total breakdown of the normal guardrails around the process, the gatekeepers, the people who are able to call balls and strikes and say this is out of bounds or this is expected. this is just what you do. with distrust in the media, distrust in experts, distrust in elites that's so high, a lot of these things that normally folks like us, folks in the media could say this is wrong, trump needs to do x, y, and z to get

right, a lot of voters just throw up their hands. when it comes to if trump should release the tax returns, if there's a universe where he should release his tax returns and everything in it is fine, then absolutely he should be releasing it. but if i'm his political strategist and you know there is stuff in that tax returns that proves he's not nearly as wealthy as he says he is, maybe he doesn't give anything to charity, think about the things that trump's brand is built upon. this idea he's a successfully wealthy businessman. if the tax returns peel that back and there's something in it that demonstrates he's not nearly as successful and wealthy as he claims, then is it actually just better to just press through it and have people in the media say that this is a problem but conceal that big secret about how much you're actually worth. >> jeremy peters, as much as we should be going after the story and going after the truth, shouldn't we be looking at why trump voters and i'm not talking about fringe voters who punch people, i'm talking about real

americans, people who feel strongly about him, who believe in him, who feel screwed by washington, who feel they've been lied to so much that maybe his white lies about whether he actually owns a building or not doesn't matter because he represents something to them, hope, success, and something different. i mean, shouldn't -- i mean, isn't that upon us as well? >> and taking that a step further, the voters who are willing to hold their noses and say for all of his flaws, for everything that i think he might get wrong, the fact that he's a risky choice, for all that i'm still going to vote for him because i can't stomach the idea of hillary clinton as president. and that's something that should alarm republicans a little bit and why i think we probably shouldn't get too caught up in the poll numbers at this moment because if you look at our latest "new york times" poll that came out yesterday, there are something like two-thirds of voters who say that trump doesn't have the right temperament and the demeanor to be president. so that means there's a big chunk of his own supporters who

believe that he doesn't have the right temperament to be president. and that's not a great place to be in if you are the republicans. >> we'll be watching "the circus" this sunday at 8:00 on showtime. jeremy, we'll see new a second. up next -- >> there are known african-american men in this country that people respect. mark morial, al sharpton, the naacp. >> i think al sharpton actually likes me. it's not cooil for him to say t because he works for a certain network but i have always had a good relationship with al and i think al sharpton actually likes me. >> coming up, we'll see what al sharpton thinks about that. he joins us next on "morning joe."

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you said on our show before that you never really apologize unless you really feel the need to apologize. >> i don't love apologizing. i'm not thrilled about apologizing, but i'll apologize if i'm wrong about something, sure. >> have you ever played the board game sorry? >> no. i sort of like monopoly better than sorry. >> all right. we're going to be hearing from donald trump apparently on the birther issue later today. he says he's going to make an announcement. still ahead, is hillary clinton about to add another heavy hitter on her bench of surrogates? reports that al gourmet be rere ready to hit the trail for her. and surrogate heading to ohio this weekend, senator bernie sanders will be on the show. we're back after this. hey gary, what'd you got here? this bad boy is a mobile trading desk

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last week kellyanne conway, the campaign manager, put out a statement saying donald trump believes the president was born in the united states, yet when donald trump has the chance to do that yesterday himself, he refuses to do it. >> this is coming from him. >> are we going to hear him say those words? >> i don't know. this should be the definitive end of it. we thought it was the end when he acknowledged we got obama to release his birth certificate. we want to talk about jobs. woe don't want to talk about

gossip. >> joining us now the host of "politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton and republican political consultant and columnist for "time" magazine mike murphy. joe, we just saw donald trump, jr. saying we don't want to talk about gossip, but that's after gossiping for years, you know, and it's a little frustrating. >> it's pretty obviously what's happening here. it's very obvious what's happening here. they have a plan for him to go out and deliver a speech somewhere and say that he believes the president was born in the united states, and everybody is dancing around it right now, so i suspect we are going to see it probably later today. >> right. >> and everybody is going to let him make that statement instead of making it himself. but his flub in the robert costa interview obviously lost him a day's news cycle, and we should be talking about the economic speech as you said earlier today. let's go to reverend al.

reverend al, donald trump says that you like him and you certainly from the our conversation don't dislike donald trump, but we'll let you respond to his claims of friendship. >> you know -- >> do you know you respond to his claims of friendship. do you know donald, you like donald? >> i'm not going to bite his bait. you know that i started by marching in the century park 5k, and then we got involved in boxing with don king. king and mike tyson all had us talk. the question is not whether i like him. hillary clinton went to his wedding. does she like him? look at them running against each other. the issue is that i despiez the kind of things he's said and done in the campaign, including this whole notion that the president wasn't born here. the last time i talked to donald trump about a year and a half, two years ago, we had the

argument about what he was suggesting about the president was racially dog whistling, and it was very divisive as well as an outright fraud. he once reduced this to, i'm supposed to shoot back. no, i don't like him. i'm not going for that bait. the issue is he's running for president. what he's saying is absolutely horrendous for a lot of americans. i do not like what he's representing in his campaign. >> which is what mika and i have been saying for some time. we have known him for a decade. we like him personally, he has been kind personally, but we do not like a lot of things that this character that he's playing on tv because we don't recognize it, just like hillary clinton doesn't recognize it from the person she has known for decades. said a lot of things that have offended us. mike murphy, let me get to you. what's going on? you look at the polls. i mean, there are so many numbers to throw out at you.

the new quinnipiac poll, by 15 points, americans think donald trump's more transparent than hillary clinton. hillary clinton seen as less honest and trustworthy than donald trump. you look at what states, in iowa, a seven-point swing for donald trump over the past week. in michigan, an 8-point swing for donald trump over the past week. we hear internal polls show wisconsin and pennsylvania almost getting into margin of error territory. tell us what in the world is going on. why has the bottom fallen out from hillary clinton? >> well, i think trump's having a little bit of a run right now. i think he's got an excellent shot to win the title of president of september 18th. he's peaking right on time. if you look, the problem with our business is we have a new poll every day we can react to, but these polls aren't anchored to much. what i have learned in politics is start with election day and

look at who you know is going to vote. it's very predictable and who has what pieces. >> but mike, you and i both know that, though, that you know, you look at trends. you don't know whether some polls are solid as other polls, but if you swing eight, nine, ten points, there is a trend and a dynamic going on. i understand this could change five minutes into the first debate. my question is, what dynamic does the clinton camp have to change to stop this bleeding? >> well, trump tends to move in the low 40s. he tends to be stuck down there, but she swings from the high 40s down to the mid-40s, which puts trump in striking distance. the pretty obvious thing is she's in the way of people voting for her. trump's got a lot of problems stru structur structurally, but they're rejecting her. the "new york times" poll coming out, they're sitting on a base vote that a block of cement can get. they have to fix her. she had a bad week and the

polling is showing that, but there are a lot of tools in front of her. a much more muscular campaign, and who knows if it will happen, a good debate performance. right now, they're losing, which is letting him get close. >> steve rattner has new charts on the very busy job of fact checking the 2016 contenders. how's that going for you? >> no doubt who's winning that race. and we can take a look at it from a couple different directions. first, there's polit afact, one of the main fact checking organizations and they use a variety of ratings rating from true to pants on fire. the pants on fire category, hillary clinton is at 2%. and donald trump is at 18%. if you look at the false category, trump is at 35% and hillary clinton is at 17%. and so over half of what trump has said has been rating either false or pants on fire by

politifact. if you turn to the other organization, which is the "washington post" fact checking group, they use pinocchios. 63% of what trump has said has gotten four pinocchios, which is really a record. and 14% of what clinton has said has gotten pinocchios. a much smaller number. the same is true in the other categories. there's no doubt as to who has been more false. we can show you now some of the things trump has said that have been rated as his biggest lies by both organizations. and these will be familiar to a lot of people, but he said, for example, that the real unemployment rate is 42%. thousands of new jersey muslims celebrating the 9/11 attacks. obonda founding isis, hillary is the co-founder. obama intends to take in 200,000 syrian refugees. the mexicans sending, quote, the bad ones over, and he was against the iraq war. >> a little basis in some of these, but essentially he's taken it completely exhausted

the truth. >> to mark halperin. we have all of the charts. mark halperin, we have all of the facts. and then we have what the american voters are right now, and they believe that hillary clinton is less honest and trur trustworthy in donald trump in the last two polls that have been out. they believe donald trump is more transparent in this quinnipiac poll by 12, 13, 14 points. the question again is what does the clinton camp do? actually, what's that, 17 points? what does the clinton camp do if what steve rattner says is the reality, to get reality to hook up with the perception sph. >> i can't believe there are poll numbers that have come out that are more frustrating to the people in brooklyn than the transparency discrepancy because the votererize not seeing the reality that trump has been less transparent than hillary clinton t transparent by some measures than any candidate ever. i get the point that she needs to talk about herself and her

own agenda. i thought for a long time, it's making a serious case how she would make people's lives better. but i have also thought for a long time that this election will come down to can they eliminate him, can they make him an unacceptable choice the way george bush did to john kerry. if they don't, i think he's going to win. that's their main project. >> wow. reverend al. >> i think what we really are looking at is a case of whether or not mrs. clinton can get the turnout. this is doing to come down to turnout. when you see the shot that steve did in terms of how trump has really broken all records in saying things that aren't true. when you see all of the divisiveness and rancor he's done and see the polls this close, this is going to come down to who turns out their vote, and i think that she's got to be focused on turning out and talking about the issue s that the american people want and let him be reduced to the

entertaining kind of buffoonery he has done so far. he can't now clean up a bad act. >> al sharpton and mike murphy, thank you very much. and up next on "morning joe" -- >> the bottom line is this. we know that obama now, he was born in america, correct? >> you watch my statement. i have to -- we have to keep the suspense going, okay? you watch. you're my friend. you watch the statement. i think you'll be happy. >> that was donald trump moments ago. his campaign is trying to move past his birther past. but the candidate isn't making it easy, still refusing to say president obama was born in the united states. is that finally about to change? and senator bernie sanders joins us here on set. "morning joe" is back in a moment. if you try to write, on a plain old mac the difference can be seen (it doesn't work)

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i know more about isis then the apprgenerals do. age. john mccain, a war hero. he's not a war hero, he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured ok. donald trump compared his sacrifices to the sacrifices of two parents who lost their son in war. how would you answer that father? what sacrifice have you made for your country? i think i've made a lot of sacrifices, built great structures. i've had tremendous success, i think... those are sacrifices?

and he still wouldn't say hawaii. he still wouldn't say america. this man wants to be our next president? when will he stop this ugliness, this bigotry? >> hillary clinton speaking last night at a gala for the congressional hispanic caucus institute, as the birther issue takes new twists and turns.

good morning, everyone, it's friday. co-host of all due respect that airs at 6:00 p.m. on msnbc, mark halburn, and political reporter for the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst robert costa here on set. good to have you. former treasury official steve rattner, and in washington, pulitzer prize winning columnist for the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. joe, here we go. here we go. >> here we go. a question asked of donald trump yesterday, and he brushed it away. his campaign staff quickly came out, jason miller came out and said the quote is mr. trump believes that president obama was born in the united states. that's something that, of course, donald trump is going to need to say himself sooner rather than later. and there also, mika, of course, is the lingering question of where this all began. >> right. >> if you look at factcheck.org,

it says the birther claim was first advanced by die-hard hillary clinton supporters, and you had that scene where barack obama is actually getting in a shouting match with hillary clinton on the tarmac for actually not answering some basic questions about whether he was a muslim and whether he was sort of an other. >> i remember that. >> so it is -- this is once again one of these issues that if it were a different candidate against donald trump, they would be on much higher and solid ground than say where hillary is right now. but it's going to be -- it's going to dominate the news cycle this weekend unless donald trump gets out today and says it himself instead of having his staff members say it. you know, of course, barack obama was born in the united states. >> staff members say it and then he sort of refutes it, so it's never said. late last night, donald trump's campaign spokesman said his

candidate believes president obama was born in the united states, and yet, donald trump has still yet to say those words himself. the latest chapter began with robert costa's new interview of trump in this morning's "washington post." in it, donald trump refused to say that president obama is born in the united states. quote, i'll answer that question at the right time, trump said. i just don't want to answer it yet. asked whether his campaign manager kellyanne conway was accurate when she recently said trump now believes obama was born in this country, trump responded, it's okay. she's allowed to speak what she thinks. i want to focus on other things. after trump boasted, i have come up with african-american voters like a rocket ship, robert told him the birther issue could still hang over his candidacy, and robert writes, trump glared and said i think it hangs over the reporters. that must have been fun. then last night, trump's campaign released a statement

saying what the candidate himself did not say. all right, stay with me here. the statement begins by saying it was hillary clinton's 2008 presidential campaign that first raised questions about the president's birthplace. trump's spokesman writes, quote, in 2011, mr. trump was finally able to bring this ugly incident to its conclusion by successfully compelling president obama to release his birth certificate. having successfully obtained the birth certificate when others could not, mr. trump believes president obama was born in the united states. again, the statement is attributed to senior communications adviser to the trump campaign, jason miller, not trump himself. joe, when does it end? and what is the -- for people who were saying, why did people keep harping on this? why is this so important? can you explain what really is going on here? >> well, he just needs to repeat what his staff members are

saying. first kellyanne conway saying he believes he's born in the united states. i think she said that previously. jason miller saying mr. trump believes president obama was born in the united states. robert costa, the question goes to you, obviously, it was your interview. did you give any sense as to donald trump's reluctance to answer that straightforward question? >> the question came up in the course of a wide ranging interview. because kellyanne conway had made this comment about a week ago saying trump had changed his position. he now believed the president was born in the united states. as someone who covered trump for the past five, six years on this birther issue, and he's raised issues repeatedly, also since the president released his long form birth certificate. i thought conway's statement was a development, and i wanted to see trump's thoughts. and trump and i had a lengthy exchange about this where he in a way clammed up and said he just was interested in talking about other issues. i read him conway's statement. he nodded. he said okay. she can say what he swaunshe wa

say. with trump, it's always good to remember when i'm reporting on him, i remind myself this is someone who is really devoted to the birther issue at one point in his political career. was not a flirtation for a small period. it was something that dominated his thought and really launched him in national politics. >> mark halperin, this late in the game, he's ahead, moving ahead in ohio. comfortably in some polls this week. he's ahead in florida. in national polls, and usc/l.a. times tracking poll, he was up by six yesterday. why not just come out and say what his staff is saying and what i think everybody around him knows is the wise thing for donald trump to say? of course, barack obama was born in america. and he can even say i proved it by making him release his long-form birth certificate or whatever he had him release. >> i think he'll probably say it

today. and it will be the latest chapter in i think one of the darkest blots on his record as a public presence leading the birther movement, and even in this latest statement being disingenuous about what his role was. rich lowry and charles kraut hi hammer, two anti-trumpers suggesting trump could win the race. krauthammer says he has the ability to remake himself, to erase the past. i think the campaign hopes when he speaks out on a friday and finally says what his spokesman said last night, that he'll be able to move on from it. i don't think some voters will ever forget. the president of the united states will never forget. this was one of the things he's done that is the absolute worst, and yet i think the campaign believes they can move on from it. >> mika, you can certainly put it behind him by just coming out today and saying what his staff has been saying about it. >> well, look.

i think the bigger point, i mean, beyond just the kind of damage this talk causes that i just hope at some point people from the trump campaign and people behind efforts like this understand what it does to our country. but yesterday, trump had a speech at the new york economic forum. he had -- we're going to try to take a look at it. he had work that he is doing to move his campaign forward that he's just stepping on. and he's stepping on his own campaign, doing things, pretending to policy, pertaining to looking presidential, and just bringing it back to the primary stuff. >> and mika, i was going to say, it's a great point. this morning, everybody should be talking about donald trump's economic speech before the economic club. and we should be having a debate. steve rattner and i should be debating -- >> that's what we prepared to do. >> tax cuts versus raises taxes.

>> of course, and we will get to that. but the problem is, when you just don't do something that's very simple and just say, yes, of course, he was born in the united states. what's your next question? this is not going to affect how -- whether people get back to work in pennsylvania and go back into the mines. it's just too simple. and i agree with mark halperin. he needs to clean it up today and get it behind him. >> race-baiting and little things that just percolate and get worse. and by the way, we're also going to talk about the pastor who interrupted him in michigan again. because he kind of found a way to bring that back into the headlines. so again, stepping on himself rather than allowing coverage of policy and perhaps speeches that show improvement and growth to take center stage. so here we go. while trump's campaign claimed last night that the republican nominee, quote, did a great service to the president and the country by bringing closure to

the issue of president obama's birthplace, by, quote, successfully compelling president obama to release his birth certificate in may of 2011, trump continued to press the issue in the years since. one year later, in may of 2012, trump tweeted, in his own words, barack obama was born in kenya, raised in indonesia and hawaii. the statement was made in writing in the 1990s. why does the press protect him? is this another watergate? in august of 2012, he tweeted, an extremely credible source has called my office and told me that barack obama's birth certificate is a fraud. a year into the president's second term, december 2013, trump wrote, how amazing the state health director who verified copiesoffs obama's birth certificate died in a plane crash today. all others lived. are you kidding me? and in september 2014, he wrote, attention all hackers. you are hacking everything else,

so please hack obama's college records. asking, destroyed and check place of birth. trump continued to question president obama's birthplace in the years since the certificate was released, as recently as this year. >> he was perhaps born in kenya. very simple. okay. he was perhaps born in this country. but said he was born in kenya. because if you say you were born in kenya, you have aid and you got into colleges. and people were doing that. so perhaps he was born in this country, and that has a very big chance. or, you know, who knows? >> his mother was a u.s. citizen, born in kansas. is he a natural-born citizen? >> who knows. who cares right now? we're talking about something else, okay. i have my own theory on obama. some day i'll write a book, do another book, and it will be very successful. >> so the statement released

last night by the trump campaign mejzed our show as having pointed out that hillary clinton's 2008 campaign played a role in the start of the birther movement. a 2011 politico article on the origins of birtherism suggests the answer instead lies with clinton supporters. quote, the answer lies in democratic not republican politics and in the bitter exhausting spring of 2008. at the time, the democratic presidential primary was slipping away from hillary clinton, and some of her most passionate supporters grasped for something, anything that would deal a final reversal to barack obama. and back in 2008, obama campaign manager david plouffe accused the clinton campaign of, quote, shameful, offensive, fearmongering in response to a report saying that aid aides to then-senator clinton had e-mailed a photo calling attention to the african roots of then senator obama. in fact checking hillary clinton's connection to the

birther movement, politifact said there is no record that clinton or anyone in her campaign ever advanced the charge that obama was not born in the united states. they do, however, write this. it's an interesting bit of history that the birther movement appears to have begun with democrats supporting clinton and opposing obama. and factcheck.org in 2008 stated that the birther claim was, quote, first advanced by die-hard hillary clinton supporters as her campaign for the party's nomination faded. and then there is hillary clinton's march 2008 interview with "60 minutes" where she did not question obama's birthplace, but appeared to give a less than convincing answer in regard to his religion. >> you don't believe that senator obama's a muslim? >> of course not. i mean, that's, you know, there is no basis for that. i take him on the basis of what he says. and you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that. >> you said you take senator

obama at his word. you don't believe he's a muslim. >> no, there's no -- there is nothing to base that on as far as i know. >> how trumpian is that, mika? at least as far as i know. >> something is going on. >> crazy. something -- as far as i know, gene, listen, i'm not saying that you have robbed more banks than washington, d.c. there's no evidence. i mean, as far as i know. you remember that scene that barack obama getting into a fight with hillary clinton on the tarmac in 2008 for her people spreading the muslim rumor. it just -- is this not just one more reminder of why voters are saying a pox on both of their houses? that nobody seems to have clean hands.

obviously, donald trump even in bob costa's interview, is doing it recently. it's just the fact, what are the odds that the person donald trump is running against, her supporters were entangled in this and actually started it? >> well, you know, i will accept politico's reporting that perhaps the birther thing may have started with or certainly took root with some die-hard hillary supporters in the last throws of that campaign. but you know, let's keep in mind, let's keep this in perspective. you know, any democrat stayed on this issue for about ten seconds. it was gone. donald trump has been a birther for years. and as far as we know, is still a birther. and we also should keep in perspective how many people, many african-americans.

many others read this issue, this sowing of suspicion over the president's birth's place, which is an attempt to delegitimize the first african-american president and pretend this whole black president thing never happened. never really happened. so, you know, the fact that it's being talked about now at this stage of the campaign is not a good thing for donald trump. and i don't think there's much blowback on hillary clinton, and i don't think democrats are going to say, oh, yeah, but hillary is a birther, too. she's not. he is and she's not. until he makes it clear that he is not, you know, i think it will -- people will continue to ask the question. that said, this is certainly a different race from the race we thought we were looking at three or four weeks ago. so this is going to be an interesting fall. >> still ahead on "morning joe," can you hear that sound? it's jeb bush groaning

somewhere. donald trump takes a page of his former foe's playbook, calling for 4% growth. >> and later, bernie sanders says if hillary clinton is elected, she should sever ties to the foundation that bears her name. we'll talk to the senator about his former opponent as he heads out to the trail to support her. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> it's not too early to talk weekend forecast. especially when we have such a beautiful weekend ahead for so many people. let's start with the worst weather. that's in the midwest all morning long. showers and thunderstorms rolling through oklahoma, much of the state of missouri and kansas. if you're traveling st. louis, chicago, maybe even kansas city early, you could get travel delays. here's the forecast for today. you talk about one of the top ten most beautiful days of the year from about raleigh through norfolk, d.c., by 95, absolutely gorgeous today. lunch outdoors and high school football games tonight will be a blast with this weather. as we head into the weekend forecast, the rain we're tracking today in the midwest shifted to ohio valley.

it is not a rain that will wash you out all day. it will be hit and miss. maybe delaying your plans by a little bit. sunday's forecast, the rain shifts further to the east and thunderstorms will be a little more intense, a little more humidity and heat in the air. watch that for pittsburgh, albany, and for our friends in buffalo. we leave you with a shot, the harvest moon, tonight, full moon. beautiful. a little closer than normal. some would even call this the super moon. . you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. 98,352 what's that? the number of units we'll make next month to maximize earnings. that's a projection. no, it's a fact. based on hundreds of proprietary and open data sets folded into a real-time, actionable analytics model. nine. eight. three. five. two. you're not gonna round that up? you don't round up facts. powerful analytics driving decisions for the world's most valuable brands.

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yesterday, donald trump did talk taxes. focusing on how much americans are paying, as he worked to sell his ambitious economic vision. speaking at the economic club of new york, trump said he would

create 25 million jobs. cut tax rate for individuals and eliminate a number of regulations. he also took a page out of former opponent jeb bush's playbook. boosting his goal for economic growth to 4% despite his own team projecting a growth of 3.5%. >> it's time to start thinking big once again. that's why i believe it's time to establish a national goal of reaching 4% economic growth. and my great economists don't want me to say this, but i think we can do better than that. now, they're upset. they'll be very upset. but i think we can do maybe substantially better than that. not one single idea she's got will create one net american job or create one new dollar of

american wealth for our workers. the only thing she can offer is a welfare check. that's about it. our plan will produce paychecks and they're going to be great paychecks for millions of people now unemployed or underemployed. >> steve rattner, did he put on the table concepts that work in the long run? >> he put on the table a somewhat more reasonable plan than his last plan, which would have involved truly massive tax cuts and blowing holes in the budget larger than we have seen before. he's scaled it back a bit. but he still hasn't really paid for it. some of the ways he talks about paying for it is to cut the kind of spending we don't want to cut if you want to grow the economy, which is the so-called domestic discretionary spending, things that builds our roads, invests in health research, things like that. and he doesn't get his budget

numbers to work. the idea of 4% growth is -- everybody would like 4% growth. very few serious economists believe that's possible anymore, just for the simple math that our country's labor force isn't growing as fast as it was in the past. and so i think he held out basically for the american people a bunch of promises that are simply promises that he's not going to be able to keep, at least through that plan. >> bob costa, see anything else in the speech that makes a headline to you? >> looking behind trump, you saw larry kudlow, longtime cnbc host, and a lot of supply-side economists, and steve moore is another person who advised the speech. trump, his instincts, his real position is more populist economics. he's okay, it seems with infrastructure spending. when you talk to people on capitol hill, they say he's kind of person who maybe could make a deal on taxes or would be willing on entitlement reform to think outside of the paul ryan

box, the traditional republican, jack kemp, steve moore, larry kudlow box. >> it was close to a pure supply-side speech. and the idea that simply cutting taxes is going to create so much growth you're going to make up the tax revenue, which everybody doesn't agree. >> it's a classic center right with a sprinkle of populism. it checks the box you need to check. this unites economic conservatives. he needs to win the election. democrats don't like it and they see holes it in terms of priorities and plausibility. >> putting politics aside, was it a good speech? >> the policy he's pro posing has problems if you don't believe in supply-side economics. he wants to do a lot of new spending. he's for universal health care and twice as much infrastructure spending as hillary clinton. but there's no one on the right, i think, who has a more specific plan at this point or a plan that's better thought out if you believe in that school of

economics. so it's fine in terms of what a republican presidential candidate might offer in terms of specificity. i'll go back to the politics. it checks the box he needs to check. steve doesn't like it, and i agree with steve, there are holes in it, bit's good enough o unite republicans. >> the iphone comes out today. joe, i bet you bought 12. >> they don't have like the earphones. i like the earphones. they have these big earphones. they have fuzz on them, you know, and everything like that. very 1974. >> okay. >> why would i buy a -- they have that bluetooth thing that never works. >> i wonder if this one doesn't shatter. we'll talk about how apple is about to win big, while samsung gets slammed with a terrible pr nightmare. but first, senator bernie sanders is standing by. he joins us live, next.

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coming up on "morning joe," hillary clinton needs help recruiting millennial voters. sounds like a job for senator bernie sanders, who is heading to ohoy to do just that. he joins us live when we come back on "morning joe." if you have a typical airline credit card, you only earn double miles when you buy stuff from that airline. he joins us live when we come back on "morning joe." o to do j. he joins us live when we come back on "morning joe." re you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles

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joe." the "washington post" robber costa and jeremy peters both back with us. we all want to work in a field nat we love, right? >> we do. >> do you love what you do? >> yes. >> all right, former house speaker john boehner is doing that as well, apparently. this is just -- so it's no secret he's a frequent smoker, and now he's joining the board of tobacco giant reynolds american. among other brands the company makes are camel ultra lights, known to be boehner's cigarette of choice. a spokesman said boehner will help the company -- really? you're going to make me say this? >> read it, mika. >> stop kids from smoking. okay. >> all right. thank you very much. thank you very much for reading. reading the script. we greatly appreciate it. if you need any help with remedial reading classes, i've got people that are helping some

little kids i know. >> i can read fine, just not with a straight face. okay. >> well, just read it, okay. so great. let's go to business before the bell. do you want to read that? >> sure. sara eisen joins us. big news in the smartphone business. sara? >> good morning. yes, the new iphones go on sale today across the country. remember, they were announced last week. the 7 and 7 plus. they got mixed reviewed, but so far, indications of demand have been very strong. for instance, earlier this week, both t-mobile and sprint came out saying they were selling very fast, most in years. and earlier, we learned that apple has already sold out of the iphone 7 plus in terms of the preorders. all of this has made for a tremendous week for apple stock. it is up 12% so far this week in just four sessions, having its best week in years. and after years of underperformance, one thing that could be helping the iphone here, it comes at the very same

time that its main competitor, samsung, is having safety issues with its galaxy note 7. officially being recalled because of exploding batteries. so those problems could actually be helping apple. does it answer the big overarching question that investors have about apple, whether iphone sales have peaked or whether there's more innovation left? unclear, but so far, expectat n expectations were low. also, germany's bank, deutsche bank, getting fined by the department of justice in this country, $14 billion. it's a wow number. deutsche bank shares are getting punished this morning. interestingly, it comes after the eu fined apple last week $14.5 billion in back taxes to the irish government. some are seeing it as a political move. >> all right, cnbc's sara eisen, thank you very much. >> he's here, joe. he is here. >> that's exciting.

i feel the bern. >> bernie sanders joins the table next on "morning joe." ry abigail higgins had... ...a tree that bore the most rare and magical fruit. which provided for their every financial need. and then, in one blinding blink of an eye, their tree had given its last. but with their raymond james financial advisor, they had prepared for even the unthinkable. and they danced. see what a raymond james advisor can do for you.

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the extra income that i get from airbnb has been a huge impact in my life. it's 42 past the hour. are you feeling it, joe? >> i feel it, the bern. all over. it's crazy. >> yes, you do. >> i may have to take this fleece off, i'm so hot. >> okay. joining us now, former democratic presidential candidate, senator bernie sanders of vermont.

such a pleasure to have you back on the show. first thing i asked him was, how is your wife doing, because i love her? he goes, why does everyone ask me that? because she's kind of awesome. so you've been doing the rounds, and i just heard you said on another network, one of the reasons trump is doing so well is that he understands a certain something, is able to connect with there's a lot of angst, pain, and hurt in the country. he says i understand what you're saying. let me flip the question and take it a step further. why isn't hillary clinton doing better? >> what i meant to say in terms of trump and what i said is people are hurting in this country. and the media has to recognize it, and politicians have got to recognize it. people watching the show today are worried about hi they're going to pay their electric bill. they're worried about their children being able to go to college, paying off their student debt. they can't make it on $10 an hour. they're seeing their jobs go to china and mexico and rr angry and frustrated. what trump does is, okay, i see those problems and really, the cause of the problems is

muslims, the cause of the problems are mexicans. and he is dividing us up, and the cornerstone of his campaign is bigotry. i'm going to do everything i can to oppose that. what we have got to do, is teses to me, mika, when we look at this presidential campaign. i understand people are not enamored with trump, with clinton, they weren't with me. what you have to do is look at the issues. if you're a working person, do you really think billionaires need a large tax break, which is what trump is proposing? if you are an ordinary american who listens to science, do you think it's a good idea that a president of the united states rejects science and says that climate change is a hoax? when the scientists are telling us it's the great global crisis that we face? so i think that if you look at the issues, raising minimum wage, rebuilding our infrastructure, expanding health care, not cutting health care as trump wants to do. clinton by far is the superior candidate. >> joe, jump in. >> bernie, of course, you're t

getting no fights from mika and other people on the set, but if bigotry is the cornerstone of his campaign, as a lot of americans, democrats, reporters believe, why is hillary clinton having so much trouble with millennials, a group on the democratic side, you were beloved with millennials. why are they splitting more towards trump than they did towards -- we're having a hard time getting orarms around it. what is it? why were you able to connect so well with millennials and why is hillary so bad at connecting with millennials. >> that's fair question and i honestly don't know the answer. this is what i know. in politics too much we look at personality. we like you, we don't like you. i think we have to back away from that and say, we're not looking at trump or clinton. we're looking at the needs of the american people.

and if you just go down the list in terms of experience, but also in terms of views on these -- i work with clinton at the end of the campaign. on higher education. and what we concluded, and she is public on this and will make it happen, is that every family in america of $125,000 or less, that's 83% of our people, will be able to send their kids to a public college or university tuition-free. that's pretty good. that's pretty damn good. clinton wants to raise taxes on the rich at a time of massive income and wealth inequality. trump wants to give huge tax breaks to billionaires. that's wrong. so i would just simply say to the millennials, to anybody else, look at the issues. don't get hung up on trump's kids and whatever the story of the birther issue. stay focused on the issue of relevance to your life. i think clinton is far and away the superior candidate. >> jeremy. >> in our latest "new york times" poll, surprisingly high number of young voters, a third,

for voting for third-party candidates. i think a lot of that has to do with the fact they don't remember ralph nader. they don't remember the effect that that can have on a general election with the two-party candidates. so what is your pitch to them? >> that's a very good question. and i think the answer is, look, i was a third-party candidate. i began my career running as a third party, getting 2% and then 1%. i'm the longest serving independent in the history of the u.s. congress, but i think that before you cast a protest vote, because clinton or trump will be president, think hard about it. this is not a governor's race. it's not a state legislative race. this is the presidency of the united states. and i would say to those people out there who are thinking of the protest vote, think about what the country looks like and whether you're comfortable with four years of a trump

presidency. i would suggest to those people, let us elect hillary clinton as president, and the day after, let us mobilize millions of people around the progressive agenda, which by the way, was passed in the democratic platform. we worked very hard on that. the most progressive platform in the history of the american politics, and say to secretary clinton, let us work together to implement that platform. that's where we have to go. >> okay. >> senator sanders, you were on the debate stage so often with secretary clinton. with this upcoming first general election debate, what's your assessment of what she needs to do and maybe how trump is going to be? >> i think she is a very good debater. no question about that. i don't think anyone denies her intelligence, her knowledge of the issues. i think what she has got to do is contrast, get away from all of this personality stuff, which media focuses on every single day. and start talking about the real issues. the american people do not agree with trump. mr. trump, do you really think

that billionaires need a massive tax break? mr. trump, do you really think that when the entire scientific community tells us that climate change is real and a threat to the entire planet, that you think it's a hoax? what's your scientific basis for that? mr. trump, tell me what you're going to do? you want to abolish the affordable care act for 20 million in this country off health care. how many are going to die, how many are going to become much sicker? what's your view on taking on the drug companies. you go issue by issue and expose him for the fraud he is. >> tough because he's not a traditional from the right kanld dt. >> in some ways he is, and some way he is not. you're right. he's not a traditional candidate. the other thing i would do is quote some of the republicans. i don't make it a habit. i really don't, of disparaging people because they disagree with me. i have many conservative friends. but it is important to know that mitt romney, mr. former republican candidate for president, considers this guy to be a fraud and a phony.

so i would mostly stay on the issues, contrast the views on the issues to his, and i think she'll do just fine. >> you think she'll do just fine. it's clear you think she's up to the job and has all the experience. what about trust, which some of the polls have shown americans are struggling with that with both candidates, in terms of the platform, do you trust she will honor it, stick to it, especially pertaining to things like tpp? >> that's a very fair question. it raises broader issues. then you're going beyond the president into the party. i want people to think. which political party do they trust to implement their agenda? hillary clinton is elected, what i and many other people will be doing is sitting down and saying here's the platform. you talked about doubling the number of community health centers in the country so millions more will have access. talking about taking on the drug companies. i'm on the committee that helps write some of this legislation. the health committee. i have written the bill. let's go forward together. i think, especially if we have a

democratic majority in the senate, which i'm working very hard to make happen, we can in fact implement those policies. then you're going to have to ask, if trump gets elected and worked with republicans, what is the republican agenda? many of these guys want to abolish the concept of minimum wage. they want to cut social security. are those the kind of guys you want working with the president. most americans would rather have democrats working with their president. >> all right. jeremy. >> are you still hearing this sense of betrayal from your supporters? ones who just found the idea of voting for hillary clinton so distasteful that they recoil? it was almost like a physical reaction. so do you pick up on that still? is there still that hatred for her? >> among some people, but not among the vast majority. i think -- and i'll tell you, there is an issue that is bringing the people who voted for me, i think, together. that is this issue of bigotry. you can disagree with clinton on

this or trump on that, but we have come so far in this country in struggling against discrimination and racism and sexism. that we do not want to go back to a time when you have trump, the big debate, of today, what's the debate, the birther issue, is insane. this country has spent too much. >> it's sad. >> it is sad. you know, we have spent00offs years fighting against racism and sexism and all that stuff, to have that debate again, young people do not want to see that. they're way beyond that. they don't want to think muslims, we're blaming mexicans for our problems, and i think that will bring a lot of those people around in support of clinton. >> we hear al gore might be hitting the trail for hillary clint clinton. she's got president obama who went out on the trail for her, joe biden, bernie sanders. elizabeth warren. this is -- the surrogates are

good on the democratic side, and you are amazing. we really, really appreciate having you back on the show. >> thank you. >> it's good to see you. your voice out there. senator bernie sanders, thank you very much. we'll be right back with much mo more "morning joe." here's to breaking more glass ceilings in golf and everywhere else. kpmg. continuing our commitment to the next generation of women leaders.

he's a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. sage. donald trump is a phony, a fraud. he's not a serious adult. i can't vote for donald trump given the things that he said. trump should not be supported. i believe he's disqualified himself to be president. i just cannot support donald trump. wiback like it could used to? neutrogena hydro boost water gel.

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and that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter, like did we fake the moon landing? what really happened in roswell? and where are biggy and tupac? >> can you clarify your stance on this? >> i'm going to make a big announcement on it today, probably during my first speech at my new hotel. we're opening, as you know, on pennsylvania avenue, the old post office, and you'll be happy to hear, on budget exactly on budget, even a little under budget, and about a year and a half ahead of schedule. that's something you don't hear from government. >> i just don't remember hillary bringing it up. when did she bring it up, during the campaign? >> hillary brought it up during the campaign, it was 2008. and it was brought up and she brought it up and i was the one that was successful in getting

him to release his birth certificate. i'm going to have a big statement made today at the hotel. i'm speaking in front of medal of honor winners that endorsed me. i have many medal of honor winners that have endorsed me and will be endorsing me today, which i'm proud of, and i'll be making a statement on the whole thing and what hillary did. no, she's the one who started it. she was unable or incapable of finishing it, that's the way it worked out, but i got him to release his birth certificate. >> the bottom line is this, we know that obama no, he was born in america, correct? >> you watch my statement. we have to keep the suspense going. okay? you watch. you're my friend. you watch the statement. okay, i think you'll be happy. >> wow. a lot to unpack there, mika. but it does seem pretty obvious right now that the truth about the birther issue will be

delivered at the old post office on pennsylvania avenue later today. you ought to -- we all should see that coming a mile away. he's going to say that the president was born in the united states and try to put it behind him. what did you learn today? >> i'm going to, for once, just not say anything. robert costa, what did you learn today? >> what we just saw, whether it's with the pastor in flint or whether it's with president obama's birth, donald trump loves drama. >> yeah. jeremy peters. >> keep the suspense going. keep the drama going. that's his campaign. he feeds off attention, not ideas, not policy. attention. >> speaking of suspense, the countdown is on, joe, to you performing with "morning joe" music, your band on the upper west side tonight at 8:15. i found out robert costa, his friday night consists of watching you on facebook live. >> locked in. thanks, mika. >> awesome, man. >> that does it for us withern.

>> yeah, and thank you guys so much for being with us today. it's been another great week. we really appreciate it. and we will see you on monday. mika, if it's way too early, what time is it? >> time for "morning joe." have a great weekend, everyone. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. donald trump feeding off attention. wellering he's going to get some this morning. i'm stephanie ruhle. we have got breaking news. it's the born ultimatum. donald trump refusing to say whether president obama was actually born in the usa. but his campaign putting out an official statement saying he does believe it. now he said he's going to settle it in a big speech this morning. >> you watch my statement. i have to -- we have to keep the suspense going. >> and that's what he does. we're going to bring that to you live. and happening now, hillary clinton is moments away from speaking, likely to tackle this birther question as she did last