you have to fire me first. >> here you are. >> michael steel. betsey woodruff. thank you for your time. appreciate it. that's all in for this evening. rachel maddow show starts now. good evening. thank you to you at home for joining us this hour. a lot going on in the news tonight. really appreciate you being here. charges have just been filed against the, alleged bomber. from the new york and new jersey explosions this weekend. string of bombing attacks. started saturday morning. in seaside park, new jersey. that was followed by a large explosion in the chelsea neighborhood of manhattan on saturday night. that was followed in the overnight hours last night by a further explosion in elizabeth, new jersey. a police bomb disposal robot tried to diffuse another group of -- explosive devices that were found on the street by a couple of very, very, very lucky homeless guys who did not themselves get hurt after they've handled the devices in elizabeth. that was followed this morning

by a shootout on the streets of linden, new jersey. a man shot by officers. hospitalized with multiple gunshot wound. he has been charged tonight with five counts of attempted murder. now that number may seem strange. it's an interesting strategy on the part of law enforcement. of what is interesting about the charges is that -- this man has not yet been charged with, anything, related to his alleged role in blowing up those bombs. either in new jersey or new york. what he has been charged with, is, is, he is, he has been charged in conjunction with the shootout. with police officers this morning. super interesting. we'll be talking in a moment about why that its. and, what we know about the case against him. we have also just got brand new detail tonight about the construction of the bombs in both new york and new jersey. there are very unusual details. and what has been reported about the construction and the makeup of the devices. i mean, to a certain level. all home made bombs, by definition are a little strange. different.

the details about the bombs recovered and the ones that exploded in new jersey and in new york, the details about how they were built are weird enough details that they may actually be helpful. both in sorting out where the guy was coming from, where he may have learned his bomb making, and any potential links he might have to some sort of larger terrorist organization. so we have got those details coming up in just a second. along with experts here to help us understand their significance. we have also got further news tonight on isis claiming responsibility for the saint cloud, minnesota, stabbings that took place this weekend t that attack seemingly unrelated to what happened soon there after in new jersey and new york. but we have got isis directly claiming responsibility. for that minnesota attack. and there are -- interesting questions to be raised about that claim of responsibility. and what it really means. so. after the united states suffers what appears to have been at least three terrorist attacks in the span of 12 hours.

there, there is still a lot of news on those still developing stories tonight. we will cover that this hour. there is also a bunch of other news beyond the terrorism stories tonight. a lot going on. for exam puple around the unite nations. the united nations general assembly kicks off tomorrow. security in our nation's largest cities, security in new york city, always mega around the u.n. general assembly. you cannot imagine what it is like here now. with simultaneously this multiple site bombing investigation going on. and the general assembly starting tomorrow. you would never know there were enough law enforcement personnel to be anywhere else in the country for the number of thchl you see out in the streets of manhattan and at new york landmark tuesday. president obama is due to address the u.n. general assembly tomorrow. the last time he does that as the president. today and tonight, hillary clinton in new york meeting with leaders of japan and ukraine and egypt. republican presidential candidate donald trump also took a meeting tonight with the

egyptian president. feel free to wrap your brain around that for a while. we also just got in a very detailed explanation of the structure and the the topics for the first presidential debate. the debate of course happens a week from tonight. details coming up for you in a little bit. incidentally, also a bit of bad news tonight for the libertarian party. their presidential ticket. beyond just gary johnson not making that first presidential debate, which he previously said would be game over for his candidacy, beyond that, the libertarians also got some further bad news in the last 24 hours. so, as i said, plenty to cover tonight. this is a ten-pound show. we have to fit it in a five-pound bag. but, let us start with this hard to pronounce series of words hexamethylene. triperoxide dim. amine. i think that's how you say it.

hmtd. hmtd. a peroxide based compound that is explosive. because it is peroxide based, a little similar to a now well known similar explosive called tatp. that is an explosive compound we learned a lot about over the last few years. this one is more unstable. likely to go off accidentally if subjected to shock or impact. for experts in the field they keep getting used. they keep getting used by al qaeda-linked and isis-linked all over the world. the paris attacks, the brussels bombings, going back to 2005, the 7/7 bombings, in london, the boston marathon in 2013. peroxide-based explosives. peroxide-based explosive compound. they're not easy to work with. they can be dangerous for the

bomber unless the bomber knows what he or she is doing. they are also becoming basically a signature explosive for islamic terrorist groups. now, we do not yet have absolutely clear information about the devices that either exploded or were recovered in those several different sites. this weekend. we don't have totally clear reporting on it. right? but there is a bunch of devices being attributed to this one 28-year-old afghan-american suspect shot by police in new jersey. here's the thing. there are reports tonight that the explosive compound in the one pressure cooker bomb that he apparently set in chelsea but it did not explode. the bomb found on 27th street in manhattan. it was found intact after the first bomb exploded four blocks south. in manhattan. it was taken intact first by the nypd. then the fbi toeld it is at quantico now. there are reports that the explosive compound in the

unexploded bomb recovered in chelsea that compound was hmtd. one of the peroxide-based explosives. here's why that is interesting. here's why that is interesting and potentially strange. because there are also reports tonight that the other pressure cooker bomb, the one that did actually go off to such terrible effect on 23rd and manhattan, sarday nig, the one that injured 29 people, created the blast, we are told tonight that pressure cooker bomb was made with a whole different kind of explosive. we're told tonight the explosive material in that one, the one that went off, was a combination of ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. neither ammonium nitrate nor aluminum powder is kiddconsider explosive on its own. i think. when you combine the two components it creates an explosive mix, and relatively common one. the two components are components of widely available commercial products people use at gun ranges and stuff when they want a shooting range target that doesn't just get a

bullet hole through tip, explodes when you hit it with a rifle round. i know that sounds a little bit over the top. sure a lot of people use exploding targets. gee, whiz, i want something to explode. it does make sense if you are target shooting at a long distance. one of the thing that makes sense about an exploding target, if you are shooting from very, very, very, very far away need to know with the naked eye if you hit your target. exploding targets. that's said, also, whoo, exploding targets. interesting already if the nature of the two bombs proves to be true. two bombs, structurally similar. both pressure cooker bombs. they were made with two different types of explosives. weird and interesting if you are talking about one bomber, right. beyond that. the same suspected bomber its also being ascribed responsibility for another completely different type of bomb. i mean, in manhattan on 23rd and 27th street. they're saying a pressure cooker made into a bomb, right. in new jersey, in seaside park, where a device detonated near

the starting line of a, a marine corps fun run on saturday morning, and also in elizabeth, new jersey where a come of homeless guys found devices in a backpack on a trash can. in both new jersey instances it wasn't pressure cooker bombs. we're told they were, pipe bombs. and once again, there is yet another weird detail. that is hard to explain. hard to imagine significance of, talking about one bomber. because that device that blew up in seaside park, new jersey, which did not injure anyone. blew up inside a plastic trash bin, start of the 5 k run. didn't hurt anybody. the device appears to have been a bundle of three pipe bombs. and the explosive material in those pipe bombs, was reportedly, yet a third kind of explosive material. remember the first pressure cooker bomb, ammonium nitrate, aluminum powder, second was htmp, the park side bomb was neither of the things. the explosive material in the

bomb was apparently black powder. if you want to give the screw one last twist. want to get even weirder, consider that that last clutch of bombs found in liz beelizabew jersey, those were pipe bombs like the new jersey device. but those ones were apparently stuffed with hmtd. like the pressure cooker that didn't blow up. so how does this make sense? you have three different explosive compounds. all of which potentially are dangerous hard to work with. you have two different bomb designs. between the two different bomb designs, you have, sort of mixed bag in term of which explosive compound you are using in each. bestwetween the three bombs in seaside park, think one went off. five bombs in liz beth. none went off before the police gothere. one detonated when a police robot was sent in to clip its wires. between those eight bombs and the two pressure cooker bombs, one of which went off, one which didn't. you have got basically, two

fur purposeful explosions. seven devices never went off at all. one that went off being diffused after it was handled quite roughly by a couple guys who stumbled upon it. huh? how is this one thing? how likely you get one bomber who has practiced enough at this stuff he has all limbs, fingers and things, not accidentally blowing himself up trying to make these things. you have one bomber making all ten of the bombs. all in different ways. and miraculously, not killing himself and not killing anyone else even with ten bombs to work with. does that make sense technically? how does that make sense? what does that tell about where he was learning bomb making? conceivable he did all of this both alone? and without anybody noticing what he was up to? so far, the only real explanatory links we have got here are he is under arrest. law enforcement say he is suspected being the bomber behind all of the ten devices,

the new jersey devices and new york devices. say they're not necessarily looking for any one else in conjunction with the bombs. also told the device from seaside park and that, unexploded pressure cooker, the one from 27th street, we are told that those both used flip phone cell phones as part of the timing device for the bomb. both of the cell phones were purchased at the same store. they're both purchased at family dollar store in new jersey. those are the links. there are some explanatory links between the disparate bombs and bombings and one suspect in custody after he shot at two police officers this morning. in terms of other people who may have been in on this or linked to ongoing terrorist concerns or organizations. anybody else had connections to the bomb maze s may be on the l. other bombs out there from the same maker. at this point we do not know.

that said. while all this has been unfolding in new york. meanwhile, isis' media arm, amaq, they're claiming responsibility for the knife attack that happened saturday night at crossroads center mall in saint cloud, minnesota. after stabbing eight men, we earlier thought it was seven men. now eight men. one woman. and a 15-year-old girl. this 22-year-old somali-american security guard had the great misfortune to run into a man, a licensed firearms instructor and trained competitive shooter. literally a man who has won medals in competition for practical shooting. he trains other law enforcement officers. specifically in high pressure handgun shooting techniques. that's who he ran into. so that was the end of 22-year-old dahir adan. born to a somali family.

he was raised in minnesota. no word, having no known radical connections or radical convictions or being on any sort of watch list. but, isis took less than a day to claim responsibility for his attack at that mall. calling him a soldier of the islamic state. this is not the first time isis claimed sporesponsibility for a attack in the united states. remember they claimed responsibility for the san bernardino attack. the orlando mass shooting. right? the question in this case -- is whether this claim of responsibility for the stabbing in saint cloud, whether it is effectively just isis, you know, crowing over this attack. expressing their pleasure that it happened and wanting credit for it. i mean at this point do we know if the claim of responsibility indicates any meaningful line of connection or, communication, or even inspiration. between that 22-year-old attacker in saint cloud, and the islamic state. in iraq and syria.

that investigation in saint cloud will go forward now without that suspect available to be questioned. he is dead. meanwhile, in new jersey, ahmad rahami, afghan/american, alive in the hospital charged with five counts of attempted murder for his gun battle with police today. they have not yet charged him with what are expected federal charges in conjunction with all three of the fairly inexplicable, strange, oddly and diversely constructed bombs in those two states. joining now, "the new york times" correspondent specializing in al qaeda and isis. thank you for being here. a lot of work, heck of a workday for you today. >> thank you. >> let me start with saint cloud first. you have said in the past that there is a fairly recognizable pattern in terms of isis claiming responsibility. they don't let stuff necessarily go too long before they do it? >> they're looking for certain signs. they're looking first to see if the person who has done this attack is a muslim, sunni

muslim. secondly if he is doing it in an ideological fashion. so, some of the clues that have come out of saint cloud do indicate that. there was a reference to allah in something he said. there was at least one witness that said that he tried to triage muslims from non-muslims asking one of the people he was about to stab, whether he was, whether he was a muslim. so there are those two indicators. in their statement, isis accredits their claim of responsibility to a source. so, we don't, we have no idea if that is, if that its true. if there really was a source. but what we have seen in the past, including with the attack in garland, texas, omar mateen in florida and host of attacks in europe, is that in the initial hours and days after the attack, law enforcement officials are often, often puzzled. by this they initially state there is no, known link. with time and with their communications, being dug into, you eventually find some sort of link to the islamic state

whether it is just an inspirational one where the person has been imbibing their ideology, or whether as we have seen in very recent cases in europe there is an actual tie through a communication via encrypted app schs, telegram. virtual planner of the islamic state. a number of them. their basic job ties reach out to, radicalized young men. and try to move them from just the radicalized stage to the violent stage. >> in terms tough the investigatory tools, that u.s. law enforcement has, though encrypted messaging techniques do they have access to them? know enough about how to find the things that they find them when they do exist? >> i think what we need to wait and watch for is -- is are they able to identify this young man's facebook account. a young man, most likely he has one. twitter profile. and then his telegram account. nowadays, the telegram account the most important i think. isis has the a host of encrypted

channels. in various languages. for various communities. and it is on the channels that usually the discussions devolve. from there you can piece together how an attack is linked back. >> new york, new jersey bomber. i lay out what i find puzzling for the construction of the problems. let me ask your basic reaction to that. do you think what we know of construction of the bombs is interesting, unique, or potentially important. >> i have to say my own source that i have been consulting on this law enforcement official has identified the material that has been used in only two of the, of the four, devices. and, what he is telling me is that it is, hmtd. >> okay. >> other ones, my own colleagues. >> seaside park and 27th bomb that didn't explode? >> elizabeth i think. elizabeth and 27th street. now that explosive in and of itself is weird from my point of view. it is a peroxide-based explosive like you mentioned unlike tmtp, it is much more volatile, it

includes products, peroxide, the raw ingredient are easy to have in the west. >> they're not illegal. obtain them. as long as you don't obtain them from the same place, you won't raise suspicions. >> exactly. exactly:tatp, versus hmtd, i am told hmtd is much more volatile. much more, it is much more susceptible to explosion, accidentally. so, that something jes in and of itself if you are going to make the explosive, you have skill, otherwise you are likely going to hurt yourself in the process. one of the explosive experts i spoke to today, if it is really is hmtd, you expect some chemistry. you expect that the person had some knowledge at least, yes possible he could have learned it online. unlikely. but it is possible. and that there would have been a lab. there would have been a dedicated space, some where, where he had done this. and, these materials in, in these quantities would have given off a smell.

she says it smells fishy. literally like fish. it is possible that this -- this lab, will be found at some point. but, that said, it is a departure from what i have seen. all isis plots in europe to this point have been tatp. so that said, the other thing that is interesting about this case is on the one hand if you assume, as, as seems to be the case with the, with the dialogue we have seen so far, that it really is one bomb maker. you assume four location in two different states. on one hand something very ambitious. right? it's -- it's equally ambitious to perhaps november 13th attacks, foiled an didn't go off. on the other hand, you have something very amateurish about it. so, one, one of the pressure cooker bombs including the fingerprint of the bomb maker. every single manual online or otherwise for making these things teaches the bomb maker you have to use gloves, otherwise that, that exactly problem is going to present

itself. they will be able to trace it back to you. secondly, one of the detonators, one of the cell phone detonators was one from, from the bomb maker's family. or from the suspect's family. we don't know yet for sure if he is the bomb maker. a rookie move. use a burner phone not traced back to somebody you know. therefore helps law enforcement. >> not a suicide attack. not sticking around for the explosion. so many weird combinations of very advanced, both advanced and, like high level and low level stuff simultaneously with the same thing. >> we don't yet understand the story i think. >> if i could add. my colleagues are reporting now from my colleague adam goldman. law enforcement officials are confirming now at least three trips to pakistan. >> in addition to trips to afghanistan. >> in addition, yes. and so we have 2005, we know he want to karachi. 2011, pakistan. don't know where. and then the most recent trip was, april 2013, to march 2014

in the city of queta in pakistan, queta is a hotbed of militancy. however, officials are saying he was staying there with, with family, members of his that were in the refugee camps. so any one of the trips could be explained him going back to see family. but in light of what happened, it's hard not to also look at it through the optic of, of, of what these cities imply in terms of militancy and islamic radicalization. >> correspondent for "the new york times" focuses on al qaeda and isis and who just advanced the story considerably in terms of my understanding. but i still feel like, there is so much more explaining that need to happen before it makes sense. thank you. >> my pleasure. awe match of more ahead. stay with us tonight.

>> we are going to have more on the bombings later this hour. including this interesting question about the weird tech that is involved in these bombs. we are going to have a little more expert opinion on that. a lot of other news to get to including brand new info about

the first presidential debate. basically about to happen. coming up very soon. we got details on how that is going to run. lots to get to tonight. stay with us.

tonight we got the details. logistical details for the first presidential debate one week from tonight. here's what you need to know. one week from tonight. monday, september 26th. hofstra university in hempstead, new york. there is a single moderator, lester holt of nbc news. it is going to start at 9:00 p.m. eastern. run for 90 minutes. it will have 0 commercials. and now, as of tonight we know how they're going to divide up that noncommercial 90-minute

time. turns out they're going to do it in six segments of 15 minutes each. they're going to do two 15 minute segments on america's direction. two 15 minute segments on achieving prosperity. two 15 minute segments on securing america. so, there you have it. little vague, i know. but i think that's kind of the point. you don't want to give them too much direction or they will cram for what they know is on the test, right? the commission on presidential debates announced on friday that there will be no minor party candidates in this first debate next week. or, in the vice presidential debate the week after that. libertarian candidate gary johnson complaining, i think rightfully that ross perot had lower national poll numbers in some polls, than gary johnson does right now. at a time when ross perot was invited to be part of the debates in 1992. arguably true depending how you look at the numbers. doesn't change the fact that gary johnson this year, came nowhere near qualifying for this

year's debates. according to the rules and criteria publicly set out well ahead of time. that said. gary johnson may have more pressing things to worry about at the moment other than the debate. carl bernstein of watergate fame reported over the weekend that gary johnson's well-regarded runningmate, former massachusetts governor bill weld might quit as gary johnson's running magt over concerns the libertarians could play a nader-esque role this year and tip the race to donald trump. they're both absolutely denying the report. there is no way bill weld its quitting the ticket. that provocative report does exist. as does gary johnson's own persistent problem of saying extremely dumb things about extremely serious subjects. last week it was the almost unbelievable spectacle of him answering a question about the war in syria by saying, what is aleppo? like it was an obscure flavor of

ice cream or some fancy foreign version of alpo dog food. never heard the word before. now gary johnson has weighed in on the attacks this week end. where 29 people were hurt in a bomb blast saturday night in manhattan. hours after ten people were stabbed at the saint cloud, minnesota mall. here was his response. >> well, first of all, just grateful that nobody got hurt. >> actually, never mind. perhaps not making the debate is a blessing in its own way. lots more ahead tonight stay with us. fuel economy. even technology to make engines more efficient. what company does all this? exxonmobil, that's who. we're working on all these things to make cars better and use less fuel. helping you save money anreduce emissions.

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three years ago this past week, a columnist at bergen record newspaper in new jersey started reporting on a weird stubborn hard to explain days long traffic event that seemed to come out of nowhere. it's, it's new jersey. so it is not that weird for a newspaper to have a traffic columnist. but what was unfolding in the little town of fort lee, new jersey, accord to bergen record columnist. a commuting disaster. one question -- why would the port authority purposely quadruple commuting time for some of the people who live closest to one of the nation's busiest bridges? that was september. three years ago. by the following january, the bergen record was able to answer the question when they broke the news that the order to close

down access lanes onto the world's busiest bridge actually came directly out of the office of new jersey's governor chris christie. it was bergen record reporter who got ahold of the smoking gun e-mail tying lane closures. it was an e-mail from deputy chief of staff saying "time for traffic problems in fort lee." it was also the bergen record first reported the man who would plead guilty to planning the closures, david wildstein was considered the direct line to the port authority. the reveal in the wake of the scandal, the port authority chairman, and christie ally, david sampson, forced to resign from the gig. the second largest newspaper. and that paper along with a bunch of other really good new york, new york area and new jersey media outlets, bergen record devote untold hours and

gallons of ink not only to the bridgegate story but also to everything else that makes new jersey politics so new jersey. and that's why it was remarkable and not at all funny when this past week, as the jury was being selected and seated, in the biggest political trial to hit that state in years, as the jury was seated, that day, last week, the bergen record announced it is laying off all most half its newsroom. the paper was just recently acquired by big media conglomerate, that conglomerate says they're about to cut 130 newsroom positions at the bergen record. this is -- bad news for new jersey. it is also bad news for anybody who cares about transparency in local government. anybody who might conceivably like to know what appears to be a mysterious commuting disaster is in fact allegedly a large scale act of political retribution by a man who might end up being president if stuff like this isn't reported by his dogged local press. the bridgegate trial opening

statements started today. and bridgegate today claimed a large portion of chris christie's political scalp. even as one of the papers key to unraveling the scandal got scalped itself by the local news business. more on that in just a moment. but in the meantime, in this commercial break, get online, and subscribe to your local paper. actually pay to subscribe to your local paper. your country need you to do that. go on. go on. go on. go on. i thought i married an italian. my lineage was the vecchios and zuccolis. through ancestry,

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today was opening day in the bridgegate trial in new jersey. you know the story, right. a top political appointee of chris christie and former deputy chief of staff are both facing felony charges over what prosecutors say was a criminal scheme to inflict terrible traffic on one new jersey town on purpose. as a political vendetta against that town's may your who had the temerity not to endorse chris christie for re-election. prosecutors kicked off opening

arguments today by asserting that governor christie knew all about it. oh. the u.s. attorney's office, prosecutors, they said today in their opening statements that over the course of this trial, they're going to prove that christie knew about it. now, we have long known that the defendants in this case, would probably be trying to blame chris christie for the lane closure saying he knew it in order to undercut the prosecution case against the smaller fish. but the defense taking that line is one thing. now the defense and the prosecution. the prosecution is also taking it as a given and says they will prove that governor christie knew about the scheme while it was unfolding, they say they will prove it in open court. and that is -- that is -- governor christie, important to say is not on trial here. but his name came up dozens of times today, already he has become central to the trial, on both sides. now what happens? joining us now is matt katz, covering the trial for the radio, and author of "american governor, chris christie's

bridge to redemption." matt, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, rachel. i wanted to call in sick and go to the trial today. was it -- when the prosecutor said, chris christie knew, was that a surprise? >> for sure. i mean we haven't heard that at all. we heard one indication of that from a defense attorney. but to hear this from the prosecutor so early on, on day one. there is a picture of chris christie and the conspirators hanging out at a 9/11 ceremony, september 11th, at ground zero while the lanes were closed. always suspicion as but that. what the prosecutor said, chris christie was talking to the guys about the traffic jam. >> while the pictures were being taken. >> that they were bragging to christie about the traffic jam. and, that the mayor of fort lee which was having public safety issues because of the massive traffic jam, ambulance drivers getting out of the vehicle running to the scene of incidents. they were bragging to the governor that they were ignoring calls, e-mails, text messages

from the mayor of fort lee. >> do the prosecutors give any indication of how they will prove this dramatic assertion about the governor? >> likely based on the testimony of david wildstein, charged in this but cooperating. and his testimony is, is, really the linchpin of the trial. he has testified against both defendants in exchange getting a more lenient sentence. >> in terms of the strategy, i understood or could fathom, not a lawyer, i could fathom while the defense would say why you are going after the small fish. this was a political vendetta. serving one man's interest. chris christie scheme. not the scheme of my clients. why is the prosecution also making the same point? >> they're making the argument. there is a culture of revenge and retaliation that ran up and down the whole administration. they brought up examples of both carrots and sticks the administration would use. tickets. free tickets to a giants game. may your who they want to endorse. tour of ground zero perhaps for a mayor. then also they were showing that

there were revenge tactics ordered by the governor. canceling meetings with the may your who didn't endorse him. or, causing a traffic jam. so they're trying to. >> show a pattern of behavior. pattern of action by that governor's administration. >> which is what is damning for chris christie. everybody in the courtroom. all the lawyers have no interest in making him look good. they all have an interest in according to their legal strategies in taking him down. >> if they do prove it. then heap is going to have to answer for asserting over the years no knowledge knew nothing abit. >> he will probably continue to say it. >> matt katz, covering the bridgegate trial. come back over the course of the trial. keep telling me until i can call out sick. >> yes. >> thank you, matt. stay with us. he's not a serious adult. i can't vote for donald trump given the things that he said. trump should not be supported. i believe he's disqualified himself to be president.

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park, rigged into a single device. two big separate pressure cooker bombs in new york city. another five bombs at the train station in elizabeth, new jersey. multiple pipe bombs in a backpack. the makeup of all of the bombs as we have discussed earlier this hour, a little weird. diversity of the bombs. diversity of the explosive compound in the bombs. the number of the bombs. it's weird. it's a little scary. but that strange fact about this -- this crime, these terrorist attacks, they may also be able to help us understand more about what kind of attack this was, whether it is linked to something bigger than what it already seems to be. we have more on that aheadwell-. stay with us.

did you know that your son was doing this? >> no. >> you had no idea? >> no idea. >> when you hear now that he has been accused of this, do you believe it? do you believe it? sir? >> i'm not sure what is going on. >> you are not sure? >> i am not sure what is happening exactly. but i think so. it's very hard right now to talk. okay. thank you. >> that was the father of suspected bomber, ahmad khan rahami. speaking exclusively to nbc news earlier today. whether or not those close to the suspect knew that he was potentially planning these attacks or building these devices right now those devices are really interesting. authorities are sitting on

potentially a forensic gold mine in terms of evidence. not only do they have, multiple bomb blasts to investigate, they have also got multiple device that did not explode. how far can that go in terms of helping us understand what happened here? and basically the overall size of this plot? whether it is linked to anything else? joining us now is malcolm nance, a counterterrorism analyst, and author of "defeating isis." malcolm, great to see you. thank you for joining us. >> good to be here. >> when we talked about bomb attacks in the past, you sort of described an unexploded device as kind of the, the alpha and the omega in terms of forensics and trying to understand where this, this came from. do you have high hopes in terms of that intact pressure cooker bomb and intact pipe bombs that have been recovered? >> oh, yes, we are going to learn quite a bit about the, not just about the bombs themselves. bombs are just, you know devices and systems that the terrorists build. it's about why he builds them.

how he builds them. why did he choose that particular device? why did he choose that particular explosive? we will learn quite a bit about this individual. also where did he get the going individual, and also, where did he get the expertise to do this? i think you're going to find fascinating information about that as that comes out. certainly, it might be related to his trips to pakistan. as soon as i heard pressure cooker bomb, the word afghanistan came to mind. anybody who knows afghanistan, knows pressure cooker and crock-pot style bombs are the rage hear. a and what the last time we saw that was the tsarnaev brothers with the boston bombing. >> some pipe-bombs, some pressure cooker bombs. some black powder. some of this ammonium nitrate,

aluminum powder combination. that diversity of techniques and materials, what does that tell you? >> that tells me that the bomber himself was experimenting with all these devices and methodologies in order to get the right mix down. what's going to be interesting over the next 72 hours is do we find this man's bomb factory, the bomb factory, the place he assembled them, if it wasn't in his bedroom, which i doubt, it's usually a secondary place that's very clean, very neat with an electrical bench. we will determine if he intended more bombings. we have about eight bombing, which is about right. of rarely do we have seven. we'll have two, four, six, eight. and the pressure cooker bombs themselves which were designed exactly like al qaeda's anti-personnel devices, with layers of explosives in between

layers of ball bearings in order to create the most significant anti-personnel effect. so once that bomb factory's found and the fbi's labs and batf take that device apart, they're going to compare it to every pressure cooker bomb in the world. the pipe-bombs are usually used in the united states by anti-government extremists and fill those with black powder or pyrotechnic powders. each one of these devices is going to tell us something unique. >> if it turns out that hmtd is one of these, the basis of one of these bombs, does that imply to you either a level of training or a level of sort of chemistry sophistication or anything else? is that a more difficult material to work with? >> yeah, it's a much more difficult material to work with. the peroxide-based bombs.

i'm wondering, and certainly even though this attack was amateurish in its delivery, he appears to have had some type of preparation. you know, bombers choose the material they work with either because of the availability of the materials or on the other hand when they went through little baby bomb builder school, whether they actually became more proficient at building one type of bomb. he may have gotten the htmd build pattern down very well at bomb-maker school. and failed at ta tch p atp and e other improvised chemicals. he started with the basics, which is always black powder and moved town flash powder, and maybe at school he got very r proficient. so that's probably why he chose that, he became chemically

proficient at building that type. >> malcolm nance, director of the terror x project. of. still ahead, an intriguing open case that we learned about today. stay with us. say hello to a powerful tool that gives you options to fit your budget. ♪ oh, i'm tied to this chair! ♪ dun-dun-daaaa! i don't know that an insurance-themed comic book is what we're looking for. did i mention he can save people nearly $600? you haven't even heard my catchphrase. i'm all done with this guy. box him up. that's terrible. whfight back fastts, with tums smoothies. it starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum -tum -tum -tu smoothies! only from tums

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just have one last thing i want to raise. we've been taking a close look tonight at the fact of the ten bombs being attributed to the suspect, the bomber, apparently made at least four different kinds of bombs. ten bombs, four different types. one of the pressure cooker bombs used aluminum nitrate and aluminum powder, another, hmtd. others used black powder. that's a surprising range of techniques and materials, and

prompting new questions about a totally different event. from earlier this year in new york city on july 3rd. watch. >> reporter: it was chaos in central park. this video was taken minutes after 18 year old connor gooden's foot exploded. >> we don't know. >> reporter: police believe the teen and his friends were climbing on rocks in the park, when connor stepped on what may have been a plastic bag filled with an explosive material. that set off the blast. >> that was july, right? that was july 3rd. police that day said that college kid had stepped on a homemade experimental fire work left behind by who knows. that was the theory. connor golden is back walking and back at college, but at the time he came out of surgery, he told them, quote, i stepped on a bomb. well, whatever he stepped on.

police have still not identified a suspect. the police lab found traces of tatp. it was used in the paris bombs last year, the shoe bomber, r h richard reid. tatp's relatively easy to gin up. the popularity monk bomb makers, the absence of a named suspect in that central park case, all of that has combined to bring the question of that case back now in light of this new case of bombs of so many different varieties. [ inaudible question ] >> again, with the central park, from what we know now, two separate incidents completely. two different devices, wholly different and a couple months apart. so we're always rethinking

central park. because this is still an open case. >> two incidents completely, wholly different, a couple months apart, but an open case. maybe hethere is no connection, right? sometimes weird stuff happens in the news and it is just inexplikable and an outlier. but sometimes months go by and you think maybe that wasn't an inexplicable incident. maybe it's a novel, about an experimental bomb maker. we will keep asking questions. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word", with lawrence o'donnell. >> the best investigators in the country to answer those questions right here in new york city. thank you, rachel. terrorism works only if it terrifies you. yes, terrorists do try to kill individuals, they try to kill people. but beyond that, they