they're sweeping the carpet in front of him. >> they really looked like little ducklings. it was the strangest sight. >> michael daly, thank you very much. that's "all in" for this much. that's "all in" for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts right now. america blue and black. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews up in new york. donald trump and hillary clinton addressed the latest case of african-american menning with shot by police. terence crutcher was seen with his hands up and taken moments before the shooting. and police say he exited the car with a gun and ignored attempts

to drop it. despite last night protests that left 16 police officers injured. look at it. this afternoon clinton called the incidents very disturbing, very upsetting. >> there is still much we don't know about what happened in both incidents. but we do know that we have to more names to add to a list of african-americans killed by police officers in these encounters. it's unbearable. and it needs to become intolerable, if we also saw the targeting of police officers in philadelphia last week. and last night in charlotte 12 officers were injured in the followings of keith scott's death. i don't have all the answers, i don't know anyone that does. but this is certain, too many people have lost their lives that shouldn't have. >> donald trump focused on the

shooting in tulsa which he says he was troubled by. let's watch. >> i must tell you, i watched the particular shooting in tulsa. that man was hands up, that man went to the car, hands up, put his hand on the car -- i mean, to me it looked like he did everything you're supposed to do. and he looked like a really good man. this young officer, i don't know what she was thinking. i don't know what she was thinking. but i'm very, very troubled by that. did she get scared? was she choking? what happened? but maybe people like that, people that choke, people that do that, maybe they can't be doing what they're doing, okay? they can't be doing what they're doing. so we all respect our police greatly. and they will just have to get better and better and better.

>> well, donald trump was speaking at a predominantly black church to a group of pastors. anyway, trump defending saying african-american voters, what do you have to lose by voting for him? let's watch that part. >> i talked about the crime, i talked about the lack of education, the bad schools, and i talked about jobs. the jobs are -- and i said it three, four, five times and then one day i said, what do you have to lose? i mean, what do you have to lose? and somehow that resonated. some people didn't like it. but i said, what difference does it make? i mean, it's true. what do you have to lose? >> trump was sbrused by don king, you saw in the picture, he called trump the only gladiator to take on the system. and he got the attention from the language he used. you watch, you decide. >> now, america needs donald trump.

we need donald trump. et cetera specially black people. i told michael jackson, you're a poor negro. i would use the n-word, but if you are a rich negro, if you are dancing and sliding -- [ bleep ], you are a dancing and sliding negro. so do not alienate because you cannot assimilate. so you are going to be a negro until you die. >> joining me is pastor daryl. give us what you thought of donald trump's performance today. if you keep voting for me -- give me what you think about the n-word, what do you think?

>> we had a tremendous time today. we had an outstanding time. mr. trump was very comfortable and he was able to open his heart and share what the pastors that were there, we asked them some questions about supreme court and the school choice and religious liberties and religious freedom. and we had a great time. we had a very great time. don king has been a friend of his for over 30 years. and if i'm not mistaken, don king flew in with him from new york. and as a special friend of mr. trump's, we allowed him to introduce him. we all know that don king is flamboyant, he's colorful, he's outspoken, he's boy strous and is sharing personal insight from his conversation with michael jackson. i don't know if it was an accident or accidentally on purpo

purpose, but a certain adjective slipped out. i wasn't offended and the crowd wasn't offended. it is just something that the media wants to harp upon. >> i'm asking you about it. let me ask you about the mood in your community and your congregation, where does it stand in everybody is talking about it, trump versus clinton. what are you hearing out there in the pews? >> sunday for me is church time and god's time. i don't use the word god has given me to speak for his politics, and i don't try to influence them in one way or another. my congregation knows i support trump but do not try to influence their politics. i just try to make an educated decision and don't let people think for you. however n the black community trump's message is beginning to resonate more and more and more. i talked to a lot of people, there was a young delivery man that came to my house, he was a millenial in his mid to late

20s, there was two of them, and he didn't know who i was or know i had a relationship with mr. trump. and i asked him who do you like for the election? and his reply to me was, hey, man, there's something fishy about hillary. i said, what do you mean? he said, there's something fishy about hillary, she'll say anything to get a vote. and i said, what do you think about trump? he said, i think trump keeps it real. here's this guy is his mid-20s. millenials are suspect as far as hillary is concerned and would rather have someone speak to them that they can perceive as speaking realistically. so i think that there are a lot of undercover, i call them the incognegros that support donald trump but don't support him openly because they don't want to experience the backlash from our community. >> i understand. let me ask you about donald trump -- pastor, one of the trump comments today was that

the black community of african-americans are worse off than they have ever been. is that a fair assessment of how things stand in 2016? >> he was saying some segments of the african-american community are. i mean, all african-americans aren't doing bad, everyone isn't do bad or living in a depressed community, but there is a segment of our community and it's that segment that he was making that statement. to be honest, when you hear a number of african-americans talk, we all talk about how bad things are for us right now. i mean, our graduation rate is lower than it has been since 1963. it's harder for us to find employment. we're having riots in the street. we're getting beat up or killed by the police. these conditions haven't existed since the civil rights movement of the '60s. so for a lot of us, things are really bad. so if this is happening under an eight-year democratic administration and we're saying that hillary clinton will be simply an extension of these prior eight years, we're looking at four more years of the same.

so what do we have to lose? we're gambling with house money. give him a shot, give him a chance, see if he can improve it. if he can't improve in four years, vote him out. >> you said we're getting killed by police. when you look at all these cases, they are all a little different, but there is a pattern. what is it, are they trigger happy? some of the police are africa an american police themselves, down in charlotte, but what is it, is it more trigger happy, are they scared? is this something that went on before we had videotapes before people had cell phones and took pictures? has it always been like this? it's in the news all the time. what is going on? >> some are trigger happy, some are scared. but they are only trigger happy when it comes to blacks. some are afraid of blacks. you're right, we're seeing it more and more because of the advent of video cameras. listen, i was raise in the '60s. my very first experience with police when i was not a teenager yet was i got beat up by cops.

but what is funny in that time in the early '70s we got beat up by police, it was not unusual because i had a lot of friends beat up by white police, too. i had friends in the '70s killed by the police. i have two friends that i went to high school with, very loud-mouth guys, criminals, but they were arrested and hung themselves in jail. but we knew they had been hanging themselves. that was a norm in the black community even while i was growing up. it is the very real thrill of getting beat up or killed by police, it was a reality then and is a reality now. it's simply caught on videotape now. it has to stop. it does, indeed, have to stop. >> your voice is powerful, thank you, pastor darrell scott. let's bring in rnc chair michael steele. yesterday hillary clinton talked about the need to improve policing in the recent shootings of african americans. let's listen in, secretary clinton right now. >> we've got to tackle systemic

racism, this horrible shooting again? how many times do we we have to see this in our country? we've got to do everything possible to improve policing, to go right at implicit bias. there are good, honorable, cool-headed police officers. we have seen them in action in new york over the last 48 hours because of the terrorist attacks. we can do better. >> well, today new jersey governor chris christie blasted secretary clinton for those very comments. let's listen. >> she's a disgrace. she's a disgrace and those comments are a disgrace. it's typical of hillary clinton. she knows nothing but the mouth never stops. she has no experience in law enforcement except for being interviewed by them. she has no background or experience on how to deal with these issues and it is just a disgrace. as someone who spent seven years in law enforcement, she's exactly the kind of politician that law enforcement loathes, loathes her.

because, she jumps to conclusions for political gain and doesn't care what careers or lives she ruins in the process. >> well, stephanie, the question i have to ask and michael to you, what is secretary clinton talking about when she talks about implicit bias and what would that mean? police officers are implicitly biased? is that the argument she's making now? >> well, chris, i think what you're hearing from secretary clinton is what you're hearing from americans across the country, which is there's really something that we have to be addressing here. hillary has spent a lot of time with the mothers of the movement. and has heard so many of their stories has traveled with them. there is a recognition that conversation and changes need to be made. and she really wants to get to the heart of all of this. >> what is the implicit bias? police officers, men and women in blue, or is it white people? i couldn't figure out exactly what she was targeting there. >> well, i can't speak exactly

to what she was targeting there either. they were talking about specifically. i think what is really important is stepping back and hearing the entire piece, which is so many of our police officers do fabulous, fabulous work every day. it is such a hard job. that being said, we are continuing to see thing that is we should not be seeing in this country. and we really need to get to the bottom of this. we have lost too many men and women at the hands of police officers. and we really need to get on top of this. it's time. it's way beyond time. it is decades beyond time. >> michael, your thoughts on what hillary clinton said and chris christie said back and forth. it's the political season. we know donald trump is trying to win the support from the white suburbs. we know hillary clinton would like to energize the african-american community. i have no objection with what she's saying, but i know the political realities here at work and what they are thinking in terms of right and wrong. it's all mixed in together. your thoughts.

>> it is. chris, i thought they were talking past each other. i think hillary clinton was talking about race although she didn't want to say that term or put it in racial context with relative to the police. and i think that chris christie was talking about the police, interpreting what she said was somehow speaking against the police. and that is the very nature of our problem. this is very much about race. it is very much about policing. it is very much about culture. it is very much about communication. if you step back and listen to the video of the copter police officer in the helicopter, how he describes the gentleman as he approaches his car, it's not a person, it's a thing. you know, there is this growing attitude or view within the black community that we're no longer perceived as human beings. that when a cop comeses up to us and approaches us, that they are reactionary because they don't

see us as someone nonthreatening. they see us automatically as a threat. that is not a perception for black people, that's a reality. and here we are today -- >> trump described the situation in tulsa saying the person had their hands up in the air, that was dealing with the police officer, that the police officer directed him to do and he still winds up dead. >> so you do what they tell you to do with your hands up and get shot. you're handcuffed you get shot. you're down on the ground and they are standing on your neck, you get shot. or armed. you're in the back of a police wagon, you wind up dead. so you tell me what environment is safe for an african-american male when it comes in to context with the police? because i can no longer -- i don't even know if telling my kids, do the 10-2, turn the lights on in the car, roll down the windows, do everything the officer says is going to come out on a good end or negative end.

that is the frustration that you hear and are seeing now expressed more and more openly by black folks. you tell me what we need to do and we'll do that. >> stephanie, i'm impressed with what michael said. weren't you impressed by what donald trump said today using the suspect, the police term, that guy had his hands in the air and was doing what he was told by the police officer and was still shot and killed. was he right in saying that? >> well, i think we have seen -- >> is trump right in seeing that? >> with regard to the video, it definitely looked like something went very awry. it shouldn't have happened. it should not have happened. >> was trump right in saying that? >> i mean, yes. i think so. but for all of us, we are seeing so many videos. and after listening to the pastor just earlier that you interviewed talking about

growing up in the 1970s and what's happening now and the fact that all of -- me, this kid who grew up in a very safe middle class family in montana, now is seeing things that i never saw. and it is horrifying. it is horrifying. and as i have seen hillary talk about it and the vast majority of americans are saying enough. we have to come up with some solutions here. and this is really, really important. and i certainly hope we can get there. >> one last word, quickly, michael. >> i think we need to step this away a little bit from the presidential candidates and the high level. >> it's hard. >> if this is something that mayors, governors, city councilmen and women and local police and community leaders have to deal with, are you just going to get the platitudes and the warm words and the concern at the federal level?

we need to get our hands dirty on this issue. and that only happens when you're on the ground in those communities. that's the bottom line. >> maybe we should urge our kids to become police officers. maybe we need better cops. i'm telling you, it's a scary job in some cases and i like the way trump handled it tonight. you do everything right and you still get killed, something is wrong. thank you for coming on. coming up this sunday, a special edition of "hardball" as we get ready for the first presidential debate monday night. we'll be on sunday night at 8:00 eastern. that's the eve of the great first presidential debate between hillary clinton and donald trump. coming up here tonight, next, just five days to go until the first debate. we have seen hillary clinton and donald trump. hillary clinton is putting out words to prepare for donald trump's multiple personalities. also, she's getting ready to deal with what clinton's people talk about an uncomfortable amount of things for hillary clinton. a lot is being spun out as they play the psychological battle just five days out. plus, last night a night of

violent protests in charlotte, north carolina, after a man is shot and killed by police. and the "hardball" roundtable is telling me up for september 21, 2016, with five days to go before the first presidential debate. this is "hardball," the place for politics. treatments th n't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara® just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before starting stelara® tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. always tell your doctor if you have any signs of infection, have had cancer, if you develop any new skin growths or if anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems

these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. most people using stelara® saw 75% clearer skin and the majoty were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. be the you who talks to your dermatologist about stelara®. we've got new polling in the presidential race. in new hampshire among likely voters hillary clinton has a nine-point lead over donald trump. clinton 47% in new hampshire, trump, 38, gary johnson at 10. that's very little change from the last poll we had. in wisconsin a marquette law school university poll has clinton leading by two points there, just two. clinton 44, trump 42.

again, no different than a poll in late august. boy, very close in wisconsin. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." with five days to go before the first debate, clinton's people say that she's preparing for all different sides of trump's personality to show up monday night at hofstra university. the hill reports, the newspaper on the hill, in closed door sessions, the democratic nominee is prepping for the first presidential debate on monday against a few different people playing the role of trump. the role playing game different surrogates are for his, what they call, multiple personalities. one clinton confidante said. and cnn reported that she is preparing for trump to confront her on different subjects like her e-mail scandal to bill clinton's infidelity and more. clinton has spent hours watching

highlight reel of trump's republican primary debates according to several people familiar with her debate prep. she took notes on what bothered him and studied his style. on the steve harvey radio show yesterday, clinton said she plans on standing up to trump. >> i understand it's a contact sport but i'm not going to take what he says about everybody else. his attacks on african-americans and immigrants and muslims and women and people with disabilities. it is just something we cannot tolerate. >> hi heidi is a reporter for "usa today." and clarence paige, opinion writer for the great ""chicago tribun tribune". back and forth, i'll ask the same question for both of you so take some time. should hillary clinton, heidi, get there and mix it up with trump? he reacts quickly. he is good on the stream of consciousness. things come to his mind.

should she duke it out with him if he starts getting to be a smart alec? >> i think she has to. first of all, it is what her base is expecting. we've talked million times about the enthusiasm among democrats. they would like to see her go on the offensive. >> has anybody ever beat trump at his game? i'm thinking of little marco and sleepy head jeb and low energy jeb. if he can get you on the street conner doing a lot of trash talking, that seems to be his home. >> she can't do the trash talking. she has to go on the attack. we saw this, chris, if you look at her past debate performances. she didn't just stand by and not attack bernie sanders in the first debate. and she came out quite successfully as well. she had these surgical strikes on issues like guns. especially when it is unclear how much actual fact checking and push back the moderators themselves will be doing in this debate.

i think hillary clinton has to be prepared to do that job herself. of course this is a certain rick of attack too much and being overly aggressive and allowing trump to counter punch like that. if he starts name calling, i don't think that will play as well on this debate stage where the only other opponent is a woman than it did on this alpha mail cage match stage that we saw during the republican primary. >> so charles, i give the question to you. can you go back at her even though she's a woman candidate. the birther comments. how come your people were out pushing it first? how tough would you be whacking back if you were trump? >> i suspect we're going to see a softer donald trump, at least at the beginning of the debate. if he is wise, he will come off as too shrill. if he comes out punching away like a right-wing fanatic, he

succeeds best when we see that donald trump that reveals the clever crafty businessman who built up a fortune with only a mere million dollars or so to start with. and was able to get to where he is where he has defied all predictions as far as being on the brink of possibly winning the white house. this is a time when he is best controlling his temper and saving his best verbal shots, his best trash talking for other key moments. >> thank you. i'll ask you a tactical question. if you're hillary and you don't want to give trump an opening. you don't slam him, he'll come back and hit you hard and you don't defend yourself. you say, i'll do a little

rope-a-done here, people will realize, he is just punching me. he's got nothing positive to say. protect yourself. put your ams up and go ahead and say, keep doing that. people will only see donald trump smashing away at me and after a while they'll go, this guy is a bully. she's talking positively and he's doing cheap shots. unless she attacks him, no one will root for trump coming back at her. >> i think she will have a keen sense when she is on stage exactly how that is playing or whether she should just sit back and let him self-destruct in that fashion. >> that's what some are saying in the paper today. >> yeah. but i think when it comes to the attacks on real issues like policy, like her policy on iraq or syria, things like that, she's going to have to come back and have a pretty strong answer on that. it's when he goes low to the personal stuff. i do think to a certain extent she might just let him play it out. >> can you win this debate by not going low?

and talk about the future of the country? a real hard felt love for your country is that what you think you need to do to get through problems. with a heart felt appeal be as impressive as pugilistics? >> it is interesting, you talk about the impression. this is a game of impressions really. these aren't debates for issue to iue. that would people to sleep, as it were. but that is hillary clinton's strength. and donald trump's big weakness. it's not a whole lot about the facts. but if the smarter person automatically won, we would have president gore, president dukakis. as a matter of fact, this is something where people want to know is this person, is he or her on my side? will they be out there fighting for me and my interests? so how well you come off as being a real people person can make a big difference. >> i think the true patriot. the person that shows they truly

love this country will win the debate. i think you'll say that person is my heart. we'll see. thank you. i surprised you with that, didn't i? up next, police shot and killed an african-american man. i hate saying it again. because it's reality. this is "hardball." the place for politics. my advice for looking younger, longer? get your beauty sleep. and use aveeno® absolutely ageless® night cream with active naturals® blackberry complex.

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charlotte is still on high alert. one protester was shot in a civilian-on-civilian shooting. another several injured when a second night of violence overtook the city streets. the shooting victim remains in critical condition. more than a dozen others have been arrested as rioting and looting was seen throughout the downtown area. police can be seen in riot gear shooting tear gas and marching down the streets. one protestor told nbc news exactly why he was protesting on the scene. >> we're out here to send a message that we will no longer allow for people to keep being killed by police officers. we're not going to allow it and it's not going to be allowed anymore. and there has to be a sense of accountability on all sides. especially from the police department. especially when there are people being killed and there's no one being held accountable for it. it's not about violence.

it's about standing and letting them know that we will not back down. i will not give an inch. the moment they say we need to leave this vicinity, i'm not taking a step back. >> the second night of riots came after an african-american male keith lamont scott was shot dead by police when they arrived at an apartment complex to serve another individual with a warrant. authorities say scott was armed and refused calls to drop his weapon. scott's family says he was carrying a book but police say no book was found on the scene. family members of the community and protestors are demanding videos of the shooting be made public. the city's mayor says she plans to review video of the incident today. the officer who ultimately shot scott did not have a body cam. more on this breaking story at the top of the hour. chris matthews continues with the "hardball" roundtable after this. stay with us.

you may have heard hillary

opponent in this election say there has never been a worse time to be a black person. i mean, he missed that whole civics lesson about slavery and jim crow. >> he's pretty good at that. welcome back to "hardball." that was the president talking about donald trump. we saw trump double down in that approach again last night comparing the inner cities of this country to afghanistan and again saying that african-americans have never had it worse. let's look at how trump has spokesperson about african-americans, their communities and their lack of opportunity in this country. here he goes. >> you're living in poverty. your schools are no good. you have no jobs. 58% of your youth is unemployed. what the hell do you have to lose? >> just like a total catastrophe. the unemployment rates, everything is bad. no health care, no education.

no anything. no housing, no homes. no ownership. crimes at levels nobody has seen. you can go to war zones in countries that we're fighting and it is safer than living in some of our inner cities. right now you walk down the street you get shot. our african-american communities are absolutely in the worst shape that they've ever been in before. ever, ever, ever. places like afghanistan are safer than some of our inner cities. >> he's not selling real estate, is he? it looks like trump's support among african-american is at 7% while clinton is at 81%. this comes as msnbc confirms that president obama will hit the campaign trail every day next month in an attempt to motivate his coalition to turn out for clinton in november. he's the october surprise. i'm joined by the round table.

andi with politico. and we have an msnbc political reporter. jim, it seems to me that there is a strange thing going on here. usually republicans say to the african-american, come on, it's working. keep your faithful keep the dream alive. what's this? >> i wonder when he started caring about what happens in the inner city many we know he's trying on appeal to white voters. >> why does that work with white voters? >> for them, the standard for apologies fortune racism is very, very low. a lot of people don't want to go into a voting booth thinking they're voting for a racist. >> of course. but it is like local news. if it leads, it bleeds. he's given all the bad news. >> honestly, it speaks to a lack of curiosity on his part and a lot of people's part about the african-american experience in this country. frankly, if you look at what has happened in the last several years, high school education is going up, college degrees have gone up. all these thing he's lying about. >> let's be honest, we hear the headlines coming out of chicago.

what do you think, annie? >> the first time he made the argument was in front white audiences. that's important to keep in mind here. >> explain. >> it was a completely white rally where he is talking -- >> why isn't trash talking life in the inner city? >> i think it is. to make suburban voters more comfortable. >> are you not glad you got out of those neighborhoods? >> one thing we saw, one black voter he's fired up is president obama. who is so angry. >> well, he is afraid that hillary might lose. >> obama is a huge part of clinton's strategy to ignite african-american voters. it is back firing in terms of how mad obama is. the recurring birther story line.

>> okay, excuse me. he is now going to be throughout twice as much the candidate for the republican. the republican candidate for president. donald trump came out and took side of the victim of that police shooting in tulsa. he even said. he looks like a good guy. we don't know that at all. totally on the guy's side and against the police. what is that about? some because he was in a black church at the time? >> donald trump will try on pleasing whoever is in front of him. he's going to say that in a black church. but that's the exception to what donald trump has said. and also, he's saying he looks like a good boy. but the whole point of the birther movement is that you shouldn't be pulled over for speeding regardless if you're a good guy or not. there's the whole angel conversation around michael brown. but the whole notion that his entire argument to african-americans is predicated on the idea that they have been duped by the democratic party. he's going to come along and tell you what it is like and how terrible your life real is and vote for me because i tell the

truth. >> i know that. how do we know if this works? pluck it politically. how do we know if trump is making any head way with this argument that he cares? >> you have this new poll out today. and i don't see any evidence that it is working. the one thing that it maybe possibly could work, depressing the turnout for voters mock hillary clinton. you won't have barack obama on the ticket. she absolutely needs the african-americans to turn out. and there was a lot of disappointment with the obama years. >> that's one thing i care about. i just saw the african-american support for president obama, 95%. this disappointment come fired what? come fired what? the other black presidents we've had? i'm sorry. you hear from cornell west. don't argue with someone whose job depends on not being convinced. academically they have to take

that position. it's not what we want. >> i would like to see the number from enthusiastic voters in 2000 and 2004. when those candidates get al gore and john kerry as their candidates. frankly, the enthusiasm they had for barack obama was not going to be equaled by hillary clinton. she has to talk about policy. quit trying to appeal to the emotion. she's not going to win black voters over by motion but by telling them what she's going to do for them in office. and also telling them that she's going to be willing to be challenged by it. >> she's a chance to talk to every african-american monday night. television is powerful. it is democratic. lower case d. everybody has a tv set. everybody can watch. everybody has one. and they will watch. what should she say on these issues? >> first of all, black voters, there is older black voters and millennial black voters. and i think the latter half is her problem. like the older black women are what won her the primary against bernie sanders. >> what does a 22-year-old want

to hear from hillary? >> i think they want to hear her say that her husband's crime bill was wrong. like they still -- >> he was wrong to sign the welfare reform bill. he was wrong to sign nafta. he was wrong to do nafta. yet my husband was a great role model. how do you do it all? how do you gain support from the african-american community by dumping on the one president that they really liked before barack came along? >> she has to distance herself. he's distanced himself from that crime. she needs to distance herself from that. this was some controversy with her use of the term "super predator" back in the '90s. she needs to admit and has talked about the -- >> you think you're right, she has to energize the black community and do a little pandering. that's the word, change what she did. >> it's not pandering, it's a

different time. i think you can't take -- >> has she. it? >> she's apologized, she has. >> i think if she, instead, stops pandering and says, i'm going to drop these, i'm going to adopt these, that will win over the millenial voters. that's what they're paying attention to. >> we'll look at these three. that's coming up here. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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we've just got five days before the first presidential debate between hillary clinton and donald trump. everybody is going to watch. watch it monday night right here on msnbc. this is the place to watch it. i'll be joined by rachel maddow for complete coverage. we'll start at 7:00 eastern that night. then lester holt of nbc will moderate the debate starting at 9:00 and we'll be back with post game analysis live at 10:30 from the spin room. then on through night with my late night coverage. it is all coming monday night. and don't forget, we're on sunday night as well. join me at 8:00 eastern for a special edition of "hardball" as we get ready on the eve of debate night. we'll be right back.

we're back with the roundtable. jamill, tell me something i don't know. >> it slipped through the radar that troy newman endorsed donald trump. he's a guy that called for the -- he's endorsed, i guess, the murder of abortion doctors

and he's also said that the california drought was because of abortion. so we have yet to hear him disavow that endorsement. >> i see the connection. annie? >> hillary clinton gave a speech today in orlando where she did not mention donald trump. >> oh! is that going to drive him crazy? >> it's a new aim to be more positive. >> i think that could be her strategy monday night. just ignore the guy. a strange one. alex? >> from our new "wall street journal"/nbc news poll the least popular figure, vladimir putin. number two, the media. we are only slightly less hated than -- >> let's get to that. because i refuse in my career to be a media critic. people who criticize the media are not what i want to be. so without getting more enemies than i have. what do you think, jamil? i think the media is unpopular because half the country who are conservatives have heard half their country trash it. it's relentless. they blame the messenger. >> yeah, we're in a culture --

exactly, you're blaming the messener is, not exactly looking at the facts. and all facts are inconvenient obstacles rather than actual things we should be discussing. >> by the way, the media, it doesn't include talk radio, does it? which is vastly conservative. it doesn't include fox news, does it? when they say the media. i think movies tend to be liberal. i think they're great. but they tend to have a positive, liberal message. about equality and all that. >> when i get negative e-mails or twitter people yelling at me as the media, it's always they have this vaunted image of you've desecrated this sacred profession by whatever i've written. they seem to have this high bar of what it should be and that none of us are living up to that. >> they just seem to disagree with you. anyway, your thoughts? you say the media's a good word for people you don't like. >> exactly. it's like members of congress. everybody hates members of

congress but they keep re-electing them. >> how come you never talk about this and you realize they learned it from your show. i said, where did you learn about that? from newspapers. we're only here, we're only the media. thank you, jamil, thank you, annie. when we return, my election diary with just five days to go left until the first presidential debate which could change all kinds of wind direction. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. despite your best efforts. but what if you could turn things around? what if you could... love your numbers? discover once-daily invokana®. it's the #1 prescribed sglt2 inhibitor that works to lower a1c. a pill taken just once in the morning, invokana® is used along with diet and exercise to significantly lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. in fact, it's been proven

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election diary september 21st, 2016. the debate, by that i mean the big debate, is just five days off. and before we know it we'll all be sitting in front of our tv sets waiting for the big moment when we see lester holt introduce us to the two familiar people in the country. people who arouse attitudes in millions of people verging from mere toleration to contempt to worse. i forgot to mention, and this is vital, two people who possess the ability in two very different ways to thrill people with the prospect of him or her in the white house, her or him, to keep things balanced. here's a recommendation from the sidelines. i know the game of big time debating is all about sound bites, drawing your rival into a situation where you can let loose with a sledgehammer sending your rival skyward like reagan did after catching him in a nag.

or lloyd bentsen to dan quayle, senator, you're no jack kennedy. it might give the mood of this country right now, be matched on which he or she thinks about the country today. its strengths, its weaknesses, their notion of what it's good at and how it can best advance into a better country. in other words, i think winning a debate is less important than winning the hearts and minds of a giant electorate. roosevelt did it by telling us we had nothing to fear but fear itself, that the worst, the stark early fears let loose by the great depression were really behind us. kennedy got to us by getting to that part of our souls that felt we were losing a step from the gung 40 spirit of world war ii. he said, we've got to get this country moving again. obama got us to simply hope. that also worked its purpose. so next monday night i think the smart presidential candidate will imagine themselves sitting out there on a couch at home and looking for someone to lead us into a better future, not the captain of the zinger but the true leader of a country.

in other words, get to who we are and what we really strive for. well, the smart candidate, if he or she is truly smart will get in touch with his or her heart which may be the smartest and best gps to the country's heart breaking news overnight. it is a state of emergency in charlotte, north carolina, after a second night of violent protests. the chaos has left at least one person on life support and the governor is calling in the national guard. plus, we're getting a chilling new look at the moment the suspected new york bomber dropped off luggage believed to contain a bomb on a manhattan street. >> and donald trump continues his pitch to black voters, but it's don king who's getting attention this morning for how he introduced trump on the trail. ♪ >