>> good morning. it is thursday, september 22nd. welcome to why t"morning joe." happy to be here. columnist and contributor mike barnicle. >> nothing? >> they seem kind of like mechanical. >> it's like being asleep when big papi is at the plate. >> economic analyst steve rattner is here. >> what happened -- >> rattner! >> it wasn't that. >> epic. all right. in tampa, florida, managing editor of bloomberg politics and co-host of "with all due respect" at 6:00 p.m. on msnbc, mike halperin. and in princeton, new jersey, chair of the department of african-american studies and columnist for "time" magazine,

eddie glaude jr. you didn't have to drive the cab? >> no. >> wasn't it tony robbins that talked about if you want self-fulfillment, you have to help other people. we always carry that with us. i think -- >> what are you talking about? >> the kids of the orphanage have done a lot to help people. i think this may be the best. we want to give this to you to give to your father. >> what? what are you talking about? is it his birthday? no. >> should i? >> what are you talking about? what are you doing? >> this was hard. it was very hard.

>> where did you get that? >> make the north pole great again. that's for your dad. winters will never be cold again. >> where did you get your hands on that? >> the kids. >> give that to your father. >> red sox, five up. >> another huge win last night. >> thank you for the sweater. nice about the red sox. now we have to get down to business. serious news to get to. a second night of violent protests in charlotte, north carolina. the state's governor declared a state of emergency after violent clashes between protesters and police following the police-involved shooting death of a black man. the announcement was made amid escalating tensions in that city

tweeting he initiated efforts to deploy the national guard and highway patrol to assist local law enforcement. one person is on life support in critical condition after being shot during the demonstrations last night. initially the city reported that person had been killed but later clarified the condition. officials say the shooting did not involve a police officer. we will go live to charlotte in just a moment. donald trump weighed in on the police shooting of on unarmed black man in tulsa, oklahoma. "the officer in that shooting may have choked in the situation." >> i must tell you i watched the shooting in particular in tulsa. and that man was hands up. that man went to the car hands up. put his hand on the car. to me it looked like he did

everything you're supposed to do. and he looked like a really good man. this young officer, i don't know what she was thinking. i don't know what she was thinking, but i'm very, very troubled by that. >> the fraternal order of police endorsed trump last week but their executive director scolded trump to be mindful of due process before jumping to conclusions. >> the shooting obviously in oklahoma, there's just no explanation for it. it's not like ferguson where we have to talk to a lot of different witnesses. it's not even like freddie gray in baltimore. we have eyes in the sky over that and we see exactly what's happening. >> right, we do. and, you know, joe, this is such a difficult ritual where we have to witness over and over again, it seems, the senseless death of

someone in the black community. and the fact is that we have the evidence. we have already seen the kind of narrative that's being spun. police say they found pcp in the car. she said he appeared as if he was on drugs. this was the most she's ever feared in her life. >> look at him. i know you've seen this. hands against his car. legs spread apart doing absolute -- walking slowly. i don't know what people she's seen on pcp before. he does not look like a man under the influence of anything. look at that. >> and, joe, we can extract a person who planted bombs in chelsea. that person come out alive. your car can stall on a highway

and you're dead. it makes absolutely no sense. >> we show from behind walking slowly. hands in the air do absolutely everything that the police would ask him to do. hands now up. you're right. you can find a terrorist, get him out alive, but a guy in an suv arms in the air. it seems to me there's absolutely no way that they can have the area's prosecutor handle this. they have got to have somebody that's independent and outside that region because unless there's more evidence that comes out, i don't know how you don't charge this police officer. >> i completely agree. i completely agree. look, this is part of -- we can connect this to charlotte if we want to. this is part of the problem. there's a sense in which we see this video and then this insistence that

african-americans across the country and americans generally trust the process but it's the process that's called into question in these moments, joe. let me just say this real quickly. one of the most exhausting things about being black in this country is that we have to convince people, we have to convince white america of what is actually happening in our communities. here we have a video clearly a video of a man with his hands up seemingly complying in every way, shape, form and fashion like we thought we saw with castil castillo. >> and eric gardner. >> what do we get in the end? a dead black man in the street. >> we've been going over this a lot. two things bare minimum have to happen on a state and national level. number one, body cameras on every cop. we needed to see what was happening on ground level. and if the camera is disabled at

the time of a killing, then the burden of proof is on the cop to explain why his or her body cam was not working and secondly, you have to have independent prosecutors looking at this from outside the districts from where these shootings occur. those are two basic steps. they would go a long way in stopping these trends. >> go ahead, eddie. >> let's look at the context of north carolina. north carolina just passed a law saying that they would not release video footage, body camera footage, to the public. even if we get it -- >> that's a justice department question. this is a national -- this is a national tragedy. it impacts law enforcement officers across the nation. the justice department should step in and need to take control of this. this is a problem that north carolina can't say, hey, this is

particular to our state. it's nationwide. >> i would also just say -- we talked about finding pcp in the car. why did that mean he had to be shot? if they found weed in my car or a bag of something in my car or i looked like i was drunk or on something, they wouldn't shoot me. >> if you're white, if you're from the neighborhoods that we live in and your arms are in the air, you could have pounds of coke in the back and be straight out of miami vice and you wouldn't get treated like that. >> exactly, joe. >> it gets to the other question that you need right now. you need a full forensic breakdown of what happened here. you need why was the car stopped in the middle of the road? a rural road, no other traffic, why such a massive police presence? who shot first? the taser or the lethal shot to

the person? and then you've got to figure out -- we have to figure out, white america has to figure out the reality, the reality that to be black in america is to view things like this as part of a daily epidemic, as part of a daily danger that arrives when you walk out of your apartment. >> i actually think when you have newt gingrich saying this a couple months back, you even have donald trump yesterday saying they choked, we're getting to a point where most of america understands that. it is time for legislators, governors, ags to step up and take the steps of reform. >> but yesterday you had donald trump clearly a graduate of the trump university law school calling for stop and frisk. in these two cases, you have two dead black citizens of the united states of america who were already stopped. >> all right.

so the what we're going to do is we're going to get the latest of the violent protests but other breaking political news this morning to report. just four days away from the first presidential debate and this morning we have very revealing new nbc/"wall street journal" poll. among likely voters, the poll shows hillary clinton with a six-point national lead. she's at 43% to donald trump at 37%. gary johnson at 9%. jill sign at 3%. her lead is at seven points in a two-way matchup. looking deeper in the poll, there are clear differences in perception between donald trump and hillary clinton. on matters like the economy and terrorism and national security, the two compare favorably but voters prefer clinton's approach to immigration by 11% and when asked who would be better to

handle nuclear weapons, clinton leads 26%. on a question of who was honest and trustworthy. trump has the upper hand. >> we have to stop right there. >> hold the phone. i've got to believe this is the number that brooklyn stares at. donald trump, 41%. ten points. man who is a human fact checking creator. >> i looked at that poll yesterday and i was quite astonished. >> it's been that way for about a month now. >> it's been that way. i was stunned because of what you say because donald trump can run around and backtrack on things that he said -- >> about iraq. about the birther. >> he rewrote history blaming

hillary clinton and the rest of it and this is where it sits. the problem for mrs. clinton is she's had one problem after another. most recently of course being the health problem and pneumonia and so forth. it's tough. >> mark halperin, yesterday we talked to robby mook and asked if they plan to change their approach to the media at all after the pneumonia scare and he said, no, absolutely not. everything is fine. we're very pleased with how that went. you look at these poll numbers though, despite her problems and despite fear and loathing in the national press over the past week, donald trump is going to win this, it looks like last couple of days polls have come out that show a sort of back to where we were before hillary's collapse. >> yeah. i mean, look, the winner of this election on election day will have traits with the public in those kind of poll numbers you talked about that are not going to look great. neither of them is going to

revitalize or revolutionize their image between now and election day. the national polls do know that trump still needs a surge. he needs a national surge to get more towards the mid 40s in his ballot number than he has right now and he's being held back by -- despite the fact that people see him as more honest and trustworthy. there are traits includes on handling issues where she's stronger including things like terrorism where trump would very much like to have the upper hand. >> on friday there was his press conference on the birtherism and the switch and the press was angry because trump played them the way he did. the last couple polls show that issue, him bringing it up, having to admit he was wrong all along, may have depressed his support. are you getting that sense?

>> you know, i'm not sure how much real people even paid attention to that back and forth. i'll correct you. you said it was a press conference. as we know, it wasn't. it was a statement. supposed to be a press conference. and the only reason i bring that up is except for talking to fox news, he's not talked to any other media that i know of about this. i still think he's got more explaining to do because of the sensitivity of this issue, because of the dark blot on his mark for the position he held for so long against the facts. there were three fox polls that came out in key states that showed him with decent sized leads. >> we'll get to that right now. >> but like i said, i still think he needs either through the debate or some other way he needs a national sushrge or he' going to come up short. >> on having the right temp

temperament, clinton leads 52% to 23%. the next most concerning about trump, his comments about women, immigrants and muslims. >> one of the things that concerns me most, his love affair with vladimir putin. only 13%. i think that's the most disturbing -- for the foreign policy implications of that and not knowing what his relationship is with russia and why he won't release his tax returns and why he keeps saying nice things about putin and why he went on putin's network, that for me is about as disturbing as the muslim ban. >> when asked the same question about clinton, 36% cited her judgment on syria, libya and iraq. 29% are most concerned about her use of a private e-mail server for state department work. 50% of hillary clinton voters say that -- >> that last slide. i'm actually glad -- hold on.

not nevada. the last slide said something about they are more concerned about policy and more concerned about decisions she disagreed with on policy then they are about the server. her judgment on syria, iraq and libya. 36%. e-mail server down at 29%. deplorable next to nothing. health issues next to nothing. i think that's a very positive sign. >> right. >> 50% of hillary clinton's voters say their vote is in support of hillary clinton more so than it is against donald trump. look at trump voters. 51% say their vote is against hillary clinton opposed to 41% who say it's for the republican nominee. >> willie, my gosh, i know you hear the same thing that i do. life-long republicans will say in one breath, i'm not going to

vote for donald trump and then you're going to vote for hillary clinton? i'm going to vote for trump. i hear it over and over again. people who do not want to vote for him but will not under any circumstance for hillary clinton. >> and hillary clinton has the same problem. she's not as bad as trump on that number but 43% of her support her voting against donald trump. we're not seeing a ton of affirmative voting in this election. you have people that find the other person unacceptable. they're voting negatively. on the two issues things, clinton campaign has been driving temperament as the criticism of donald trump. he's unfit to be president. it looks like that's registering. number one complaint people have about trump. the trump campaign has been driving for a couple weeks deplorables as argument against hillary clinton and that hasn't stuck. that's down at 9%. >> it's not sticking. >> i would say -- i talked to a lot of republicans believe it or not as well.

some would say damn it i'll vote for trump. a fair number say i'm not voting. i'm going write in gary johnson. >> i hear republicans say i'll leave the top line blank and vote republican straight down. these are people that are giving a lot to make sure republicans keep control of the senate and house. people that have been all in their entire life. some of the most extraordinary examples that we've seen are people who have been very, very active in fund-raising with the republican party their entire life and their wives and their daughters have said no. heard that story more than once from even biggest donors from four years ago. can't do it even if i wanted to do. my wife and my daughter would not talk to me again. >> let's look at the state polls. marquette university poll shows a close race in wisconsin. clinton at 41%. trump at 38.

>> that's a shocking number right there. three points. gary johnson polling at double digits at 11%. >> we'll have to see what happens with gary johnson. he's hurting hillary clinton particularly with younger voters who "wall street journal"/nbc poll shows are not as enthused about this election. gary johnson will not be in the first debate. i think trump has a much better chance to win these battleground states in a state like wisconsin if he doesn't need to get above 45. >> are you surprised by wisconsin? >> i'm not. again, johnson taking up 11%. you think about where that vote would go. i think a lot would go to her. this race nationally and individual states may be won by clinton or trump with 43%, 44%, not getting to a majority. that's why clinton struggles in

some places to get much above that. that leaves her vulnerable with johnson and stein. i think right now hurting her more than trump as look as they stay high. >> i'm very skeptical johnson is going to get 11%. you get someone going into a voting booth and they see top two names down there and dig down for the other candidates, if you say candidate one, two, three, four. they don't want to admit they're voting for trump or clinton. >> i think the whole picture is going to change after the debate on monday. i think it will reset the whole thing. two other points, hillary clinton, part of her bench strength if you want to call it in terms of her potential success in november is going to rely on a vast number of hold your nose voters who are going

to go in very reluctant to vote for her but finally pull the trigger for her in november. the other aspect of it that you get a real undercurrent -- a very strong feeling. it will be a low turnout. a lot of people will say, you know something -- >> i can't do it. >> to your point, joe, when you look at the polls that are a two-way race rather than a four-way race, hillary picks up a little bit. >> i really do think -- it's just a gut feeling. i really do think you take those two numbers and it's somewhere in the middle. if hillary is up seven points in one and three in the other, it's a five-point race. >> if you think about what turnout is going to be in a state like florida where the presidential elections have been close for a while. on one hand i agree. people don't love these two candidates. that means people may stay home. may vote for gary johnson and may not fade the way the normal

process works. think of how engaged people are. people are talking about a debate having 100 million more watching it. every battleground state i go to are talking about the race. those two megafactors kind of cross cut in terms of just how big turnout will be. >> let's whip through fox news polls that give trump an edge. statistical tie in nevada where trump takes 43%, hillary clinton, 40%. gary johnson polling 8% there. in north carolina, 45 over 40 lead for trump and johnson at 6. a new poll has that state tied 41-41 in three-way race with johnson. that's north carolina as well. trump has a five-point lead in the pivotal state of ohio. 42% with clinton at 37. in new hampshire, clinton holds a comfortable nine-point lead, 47-38 with johnson in double

digits at 10 points. >> mark halperin, digest those polls for us. >> we still don't know -- sometimes state polls are leading indicators and sometimes lagging indicators. if you allocate the states according to those polls willie cited, trump will come up short giv given him nevada and ohio -- he's still going to come up short. >> it's almost like everybody is going to their corners because the traditionally republican states seem to be breaking republican. new hampshire and pennsylvania the last couple polls have shown hillary clinton with comfortable leads there. >> again, that's why i say i think while their focus is on battleground states, he's going to need a national surge. that's why the debate is key. trump needs to find some way to win over -- he needs to be

better with white voters, with men, with married people, with college educated people. i think that's going to require some sort of national push either a problem for her or a successful debate for him. >> we have a lot more to get to. still ahead on "morning joe," a live report from charlotte after a violent night. plus -- >> i listened to my colleague from russia and i sort of felt a little bit like in a parallel universe here. how can people go sit at a table with a regime that bombs hospitals and drops chlorine gas again and again and again. >> thank you, john kerry, for saying that. >> john kerry unloads at the u.n. john kirby joins us. and later chuck todd, rick tyler and steve kornacki joined our political roundtable. you're watching "morning joe." >> now having said this, why aren't i 50 points ahead you might ask.

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back now with breaking news overnight. a second night of violent clashes between protesters and police in charlotte. north carolina's governor declared a state of emergency initiating efforts to deploy the national guard and highway patrol to assist local law enforcement. several were hurt during the protest in the uptown section of the city. officers in riot gear once again used tear gas to try to disperse the crowd. several people were arrested. this marked the second night of violence in the wake of the fatal police shooting of keith scott on tuesday. police say scott was given multiple warnings by officers to drop his weapon but a witness at the scene says scott did not have a gun and was reading a book in his car when he was shot and a police source confirms that in an image obtained by our local affiliate there appears to

be a gun at keith scott's feet in the moments after he was shot. let's go to charlotte. >> reporter: things are much more calm in charlotte compared to what they were last night when hundreds of protesters were marching through these streets protesting the shooting death of 43-year-old keith scott. anger and racial tensions boiling over after yet another officer-involved shooting. now, these protesters going on for a second night bringing out police in riot gear forcing them to have to use their rubber bullets, also having to use tear gas just to try to break up the crowd and get them to leave. these protests started out yesterday peaceful at a park and then they escalated and got more violent through the night. we're told that several of these protesters went inside hotels, attacked some workers and at one point where they get to center city of charlotte, we're told that's when shots rang out. a protester was shot and police are adamant here saying that protester was shot by a civilian

and not by an officer. nonetheless, violence continued and other officers were injured in the protests as well as civilians all taken to the hospital. at one point demonstrators marched through uptown charlotte. they went out to an interstate i-277. the loop that surrounds the heart of this city. got out there. police were able to corral them back to the center of the city and eventually able to get them to leave. governor pat mccrory called in for backup calling the national guard and highway patrol to try to help police here. meantime, the officer accused of killing keith scott is on paid leave. mika, back to you. >> thank you very much. donald trump held a roundtable with some of his close aides and a group of black pastors in ohio yesterday morning where he defended his calls for african-americans to join his campaign like the one he made in north carolina on tuesday. >> our african-american

communities are absolutely in the worst shape that they've ever been in before, ever, ever, ever. you take a look at the intercities, you get no education. you get no jobs. you get shot walking down the street. honestly, places like afghanistan are safer than some of our inner cities. i want to thank the african-american community. i don't know if you have been watching but the poll numbers are going like a rocket ship. it's interesting. i went down a list of problems in the inner cities. i said there three or four times before. i go down the list. i talked about the crime. i talked about the lack of education. the bad schools. i talked about jobs. the jobs are just so bad. i said it three, four, five times. and then one day i said what do you have to lose? i mean what do you have to lose? i'm going to fix it. what do you have to lose?

and somehow that resonated. some people didn't like it. i said, what difference does it make? it's true. what do you have to lose? >> trump's campaign has been touting "the los angeles times"/usc tracking poll that shows trump up 20 points with black voters and clinton dropping from 90% to 71% last week. you look at the rioting in the streets and it represents something that this country is really coming to terms with and has been over the past decade which is inequality on every level. eddie, what do you make of not just trump's comments and reaction, which i do think touch on something, whether we find them to be appropriate comments or not, he's speaking to a condition out there. >> let's be very clear. there are segments and portions

of the african-american community that are struggling. not only struggling but suffering in very clear and distinct ways. i think what donald trump has been doing is engaging in kind of dog whistle politics in the name of appealing to black voters. it's not really a whistle. it's a fog horn. and then to set up a set of policy responses. you think about it. he describes the black community in that way and then recommends stop and frisk. stop and frisk, which is a resoundly rejected by black communities. we need to understand what that means. >> are things worse now than they've ever been in black communities? i've seen statistics that suggest that's actually not the case. that unemployment is down. that crime is certainly radically down over the past few decades. it's not 1989. it's not 1990.

it's not 1991. things have improved in black communities, have they not? >> certainly not 1890, right? it's certainly not the context of jim crow or slavery. things have improved but relative to white america we're still struggling. we can look at the wage gap. we can look at poor black working communities. we don't want to overstate the case. we want to speak to black social -- >> trump would seem to me to put you in a difficult position because he's saying things are the worst that they've ever been. well, they're not. at the same time, there's still a long way to go in a lot of communities. >> he's not the messenger, joe. he's not really talking to black folk. he's not talking to black communities. when we look at what's happening in charlotte, we have to place that within the context of what's happened in north carolina. we have to -- in terms of

conservative policies that have strangled working black people. when we think about what happened in charlotte, we have to think about what happened in december of 2013. he had an accident. ran toward the cops. he was killed. officers were indicted. charged but a mistrial. we have to think of this in the context of what's gone viral over the last few days. >> what about economic arguments that trump makes? you've got nothing to lose. it really does borrow actually from the conservative argument that democrats have run urban cities for 40, 50 years and look at the trend lines over those 40, 50 years. it's been absolutely horrific. trump's borrowing that. something you might read in national review or weekly standard, "wall street journal" editorial page. what's your counter to that argument? >> it's disingenuous, joe.

they have run cities in light of the challenge and around federal government, shrinking federal government. we can begin to talk about, you know, what do we have to lose? republicans who are purging voter roles. closing school districts impacting our communities. part of what we have to do is kind of ask the question of whether or not donald trump is engaging in good faith, engaging the black community in good faith. i can make the claim that many democrats don't engage the black community in good faith. it doesn't follow from that that the republican party is the option. the republican party honestly, joe, hasn't put forward policies that will address not only the conditions of the black community but the conditions

of -- >> reverend al sharpton will be our guess and we'll be back in just a moment. >> there's never been a worst time to be a black person. i mean, he missed that civics lesson about slavery and jim crow.

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>> up next -- >> five or six hours ahead -- >> i could do the show at a civilized hour. >> then you wouldn't have to take a nap. >> up next, what secretary of state john kerry is telling a moment of truth in the civil war in syria pushing for a no-fly zone in certain parts of that war-torn country. we'll talk to state department spokesperson john kirby. "morning joe" is back in a moment. hey listen, when you tell our friends about your job, maybe let's play up the digital part. but it's a manufacturing job. yeah, well ge is doing a lot of cool things digitally to help machines communicate, might want to at least mention that. i'm building world-changing machines. with my two hands.

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>> how can people go sit at a table with a regime that bombs hospitals and drops chlorine gas again and again and again and again. you're supposed to sit there and have happy talk in geneva under these circumstances when you signed up to a cease-fire and you don't adhere to it? what kind of credibility do you

have with any of your people? you don't need to read these documents to understand it's against international law to bomb hospitals. you don't need these documents to understand that you don't drop barrel bombs on children. >> or on relief convoys. john kerry has credibility to do that because he's been fighting hard day in and day out to strike a deal with the russians. i think most of america, the world community, was waiting for that moment yesterday and it was an important moment. >> there you see the secretary of state speaking during a united nations security council meeting yesterday. joining us now, spokesperson for the state department, john kirby. very good to have you. >> thanks for having me back. >> a possible change in policy now. there's a possibility of supporting no-fly zones. >> it's not really a change in policy. he referenced this yesterday.

trying to move the cessation of hostilities forward and one way to get there is get aircraft out of the air. there's only two types of aircraft in syria in areas where humanitarian aid isn't getting and that's russian and syrian. can we work on getting them out of the air long enough so aid can get in. >> how do we get them out of the air when it's the strategy to starving the people of aleppo to death. >> there's no way this war ends. if they aren't out of the air and we can't get a cessation of hostilities, the war will just go on and on. that's not in russia's interest. i think if they were being honest with you in a moment, they would tell you they realize that's not in their interest. the other thing is they want cooperation with the u.s. military in syria. they want this joint implementation stood up.

we were very honest this week. there will be no establishment of that if we can't get calm and aid to those people. >> if this continues, shouldn't the united states destroy syria's airplanes on the ground? >> i don't think we're talking about u.s. military solutions here. the president has been very clear that there's not going to be a military solution to this civil war in syria. it has to be political. >> they are using military weapons to starve the people of aleppo, to barrel bomb as you said. the world community, does it really have any choice if it doesn't destroy their instruments of warfare that they're using against their own people, than the slaughter, the genocide will continue. >> absolutely it will. that's why we're pushing on russia, which has influence over assad and can get them out of the air if they so choose. they've done it before back in february when it the cessation of hostilities first started. it wasn't no violence but reduced 70% to 80%.

they with do it. what's not clear is whether they're willing to do it or able to do it where assad is resistance to the influence that we know russia has. >> it was the russians that blew up the convoy. >> only two types of aircraft flying over those areas. i won't get into intelligence issues here. but we certainly know that there was no coalition aircraft responsible for this in any way what stov whatsoever. >> it was clear that he's not happy with the russians behavior. everyone was happy that we had an agreement and now they've violated it in a number of ways so at what point do you say to yourself we can't do business with these people because they can't be trusted? >> i think you saw a lot of frustration from secretary kerry. we've been very clear. we're at a critical moment. the secretary talked about that.

we're hanging by a thread here and we've been honest with them. the arrangement reached last week in geneva will not happen if they can't help us to influence assad to get a cessation of hostilities -- >> how long. >> there's a meeting today right here across the street and i think it's going to be a key meeting to kind of figure out where we really are in moving this forward. i don't know the answer how long. i don't know how much longer it's going to take. i can tell you when the members of the international syria support group met a couple days ago, all 22, russia included, all agreed that trying to move this forward was still worthwhile and there was still gas in the tank, and i think they want to see just how much is left in that tank today. >> yesterday at this time we had a leader of the syrian opposition sitting in the chair you're sitting in right now and came on the show and was pleading for help from the west. she said this has been going on. someone has to step up and say enough is enough.

what do you say to her and the people suffering there right now? >> obviously we share their deep concerns, and we are fighting very hard on their behalf. i know that it doesn't always look that way to them when you keep seeing barrel bombs being dropped and chlorine gas and images such as what you're showing right now and that toddler in the ambulance. i know it's hard. we continue to believe that more war is not the answer. more violence isn't the answer. we've got to get the two sides to sit down and talk about this and get a transitional governing process in place. that can't happen unless the violence stops. that can't happen unless the aid gets in. i would tell her that we are squarely in their corner and working not just to stop the violence today but to try to stop the war tomorrow and to try to build a syria where they can go home. we have almost 6 million refugees outside of the country. and about that many displaced inside the country. these people want to go home.

and that's going to take some time. we are absolutely committed to that. >> is there a breaking point in which the united states would change its policy and try something different and does that breaking point go beyond the election? >> i don't know the answer to timing. i certainly wouldn't speculate one way or the other about policy options. we have always said that this is the best option forward. that other options, plan bs, if you will, are not ideal. it's not that there aren't other things you can do. none of them are better than trying to get sides to sit down and politically work through this. we've also always said that we're willing to consider other options going forward if the political diplomatic track fails. not like there aren't active discussions inside the agency about what we can do if that happens? >> john kirby, thank you very much. thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> appreciate you being here. >> we're back in just a moment. . on the phone, you're just a voice.

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the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. i know more about isis then the apprgenerals do. age. john mccain, a war hero. he's not a war hero, he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured ok. donald trump compared his sacrifices to the sacrifices of two parents who lost their son in war. how would you answer that father? what sacrifice have you made for your country? i think i've made a lot of sacrifices, built great structures. i've had tremendous success, i think... those are sacrifices?

>> have you talked to your father yet about the sweater? >> i'm using it as a foot warmer. >> what do you think? i think the kids did a great job on this. >> they knitted that. >> fine needlepoint there. >> most awkward gift i've ever gotten. >> you don't see craftsmanship unless it's from the kids at our orphanage. >> it's going to be a great christmas. >> he dresses up as santa at christmas.

>> he can wear that. >> the state of the race just four days before the presidential debate. we'll have new polls this morning including several battleground states. chuck todd joins us and steve kornacki. he's so angry. plus, we continue to follow the breaking news from charlotte where protests turned violent for a second straight night. rest rand al sharpton joins us. "morning joe" is back in a moment. i use what's already inside me to reach my goals. so i liked when my doctor told me

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>> beautiful weather these days. >> we have with us former treasury official steve rattner, managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin and eddie glaude jr. and moderator of "meet the press" chuck todd in chicago co-founder and publisher of real clear politics tom bevan and rick tyler. >> everybody about rolling stones and kiss here, man. this is huge. we have enough people here i can do that roundtable question. it's a brady bunch. >> marcia, marcia, marcia. >> we'll do a quick go-around. i asked a couple weeks ago if the election was over. everyone said it. >> this gets everyone in trouble.

>> let me start with you, tom. the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll because the guy to your immediate right is in charge of that. that is a gold standard. it's a gold standard. it seems to show some spacing, tom, there that other polls are suggesting as well while we have tightness in state polls. right now, what's the state of the race? >> you're right, that poll does show clinton with a wider lead than we've seen in other polls. if you look at the state polls, it doesn't jive that clinton would have six-point, seven point lead nationally but trail in places like ohio and florida or even tied in florida. i think the race again look iin at the data, clinton stabilized a one to two-point lead nationally and in battleground states it's nip and tuck. >> chuck todd, i really think nbc news/"wall street journal" poll is about where people like you and i felt like it was going

to be. you sensed that hillary clinton stabilized a bit. that certainly seemed to be the case in the poll last night. what's your feeling on the general state of the race? >> it feels like she has a lead. biggest development over the last two weeks is that he has a path to 270. she has more of them. he has some. but i think that you do need also to take into account when our poll was conducted friday through monday and, you know, our pollsters don't think there's any one thing -- they actually don't believe that the race tightened as much as some polls had shown ten days ago. but you can't tell me that the birther incident on friday didn't have an impact. that was the entire poll. >> the poll started on friday, it had to have a huge impact. mark halperin, state of the race

right now. who's ahead right now and what trend lines do you see? >> she has a lead. she has more paths as chuck said to 270 electoral votes. i still think he needs some kind of national push to get his number in key states more like 44, 45, 46% in the vote in the four-way contest for him to have a chance to win the handful of states he needs to win. if he can win ohio, florida, north carolina, all states where he's at least a little bit ahead or competitive, then we're talking about a contest that could come down to the three debates or some other development late that allows trump to win enough republicans to squeak this out. >> going into the first debate a lot of people think that hillary has stabilized and is in good shape. how do you feel state of the race right now? who's ahead by how much? >> clinton is ahead but begrudgingly. i look at the map every day, you're looking at a brexit like

turnout to put trump over the top. >> you say that's what would be required? >> i think halperin is right. you need to get to that 45. there has to be some group of voters that pollsters aren't picking up like in the brexit vote and other thing causing hillary problems is younger millennials are going to third party. libertarian who normally draw from the republican and black voter enthusiasm is way down. >> the stunning number again in the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll absolutely staggering by ten-point margin donald trump is seen as more honest and straightforward than hillary clinton. >> it's been her problem. trump is utterly unqualified for the job so it's why the race is as close as it is. i look at real clear politics running average where you check polls and aggregate them over time. other than a brief period in august and brief period earlier in the year she's maintained a small margin or large margin.

secondly, if you look at the map and you believe democrats are in a strong position in virginia, it gets so hard for trump to piece the rest of it together to get to that 270. >> willie, nate silver that i've always been a huge fan of. look back at the records. i've always said he's huge. he's fantastic. go back and look at the records. i always said that nate silver is fantastic. >> okay, donald. >> he's now saying it's like 59.28764% to 41. nate silver saying it's getting closer. what say you? >> nate silver tweets out one of those warning shots every couple months where he says hillary voters are getting too fat and happy. this race is closer than you think. he said two weeks ago trump had 3% chance. whatever the numbers mean. to mark's point, if you look at the new polls, trump is a four-way race in the new "wall

street journal"/nbc race is only at 37%. that has to come up to win. end of story. >> looking at nbc news number, hillary clinton's 43% that she wins by, the exact number that bill clinton had when he won in 1992. >> joe, the most underreported number in our poll and one that's more telling and should have the rnc really nervous, among those that either handful voted or plan to be early voters, hillary clinton has a much bigger lead. you can just see the -- it's the one way to see who's got a ground game and who's talking and anybody in our poll that identified themselves as an early likely voter, it is very much more orientated toward clinton. it is a reminder that she has the organizational edge and you can see it when it comes to the early vote. >> we have headlines to talk

about this morning that could shape the debate between the candidates. a second night of violent protests in charlotte, north carolina. the state's governor declared a state of emergency after violent clashes between protesters and police following the police shooting death of a black man. meanwhile, one person is on life support in critical condition after being shot during the demonstrations last night. initially the city reported that person had been killed but later clarified the condition. officials say that shooting did not involve a police officer. we're going to get a live report from charlotte in just a moment. and now to the breaking political news. the revealing wa ining nbc/"wal journal" poll. hillary clinton at 43% to donald trump's 37%. gary johnson is at 9%. jill stein is at 3%. looking deeper in the poll,

clear differences in perception between donald trump and hillary clinton. on matters like the economy and terrorism and national security, they compare favorably but voters prefer clinton's approach to immigration by 11% and when asked who would better handle nuclear weapons, clinton leads at 51%. on having the right temperament, clinton leads by 33%. and on being knowledgeable enough, clinton leads by 37%. voters nationwide are most concerned about trump's temperament. 33%. the next most concerning issue, his comments about women, immigrants and muslims. when asked the same question about clinton, 36% cited her judgment on syria, libya and iraq. 29% most concerned about her use of a private e-mail server for state department work. 50% of hillary clinton voters say their vote is in support of

hillary clinton more so than it is against donald trump. but look at trump voters. 51% say their vote is against hillary clinton as opposed to 41% that say it's for the republican nominee. >> tom bevan, it looks like there will be a proliferation of hate voting. unbelievable. for donald trump if you support him, more than half of them are voting for him because they don't like hillary clinton and not because they like donald trump. there's not affirmative voting but negative voting that will go on in november. >> almost unprecedented in terms of the dislike that the public feels to both of these candidates and choice they're going to be forced to make in seven weeks. it will be interesting to see how that plays in the battleground states. we talked about it earlier. you know, on one hand you could

argue that there would be lower turnout. on the other hand, we have two candidates with 100% name i.d. and such engagement. i think it will be a huge potential turning point in this campaign. trump has to get over the temperament issue. he hasn't moved the needle on that at all so far. and obviously clinton, her biggest vulnerability is she's not seen as honest and trustworthy. they won't cover that in the space of 90 minutes. she'll have to play to her strength which is experience and temperament. >> let's look at state polling. a poll in very shows trump cut secretary clinton's lead in half still ahead by seven points, 44 to 37. eight percentage points for gary johnson. marquette university poll, clinton at 41, trump at 38, johnson at 11. fox news polls of swing states giving trump an edge. a statistical tie in nevada where trump takes 43%, clinton

40 and johnson at 8. in north carolina, 45-40 over hillary clinton. johnson at 6 there. a new college poll has north carolina tied 41-41 in a three-way ris with johnson in the mix. 42% to clinton's 37% in ohio with johnson at 6 and stein down at 2. >> let's stop there for a second. mark halperin, if you told anybody four weeks ago that donald trump was going to be ahead in nevada, this far ahead in north carolina, this far ahead in ohio, this far ahead in so many of these states, i think a lot of people would be as shocked as several million hillary clinton supporters who just can't believe that this man, like you said, has a pathway to the presidency now. >> look, there are seven or eight states that are going to determine the outcome here. there are outliers that come into play. if you slot trump ohio. slot him north carolina.

slot him nevada. then florida becomes critical. i've been here for a couple days now. this state is as always as chuck knows it's a toss up. both sides are confident in winning it. if you give him florida, he has a way to go. add in iowa. he still has to win new hampshire or pennsylvania. maybe one electorate in maine. trump still has to win a lot of states that clinton can afford to lose. if you give him that first basket of states where he's currently ahead, we're talking about people worried about a trump presidency, the prospect of an october surprise giving trump the win. >> you look at states like new hampshire where a poll shows hillary clinton now up nine points. a comfortable lead. 47% to 38%. also you look at recent pennsylvania polls that also show hillary clinton approaching double digit leads there. >> you can see it in our national poll and by the way,

you can be -- donald trump is going to be stronger in nevada, ohio, and florida than he is going to be in national polls. i think one of the things in particular that we've seen and it all comes down to education split among white voters. he is just not performing well enough against -- here's the demographic number that jumped out at our pollsters most. it's not just college educated whites. college educated white men. two straight polls where that number has been tied. mitt romney won college educated men by 20 points. okay. the reason he is not going to make pennsylvania a state he can carry or new hampshire, those two states which his narrow path to 270, new hampshire actually is pretty important to him. that's a state with a high level of college educated white voters and suburbs of philadelphia.

he is not getting the number he needs in order to flip pennsylvania and it all centers around college educated whites but in particular college educated white men. >> eddie, if we talk about another demographic, you talk about black voters that got out and made the difference in historic ways for barack obama in 2008 and 2012. look at pennsylvania. this is a state that will go for donald trump and will tip the presidency to donald trump if minority voters don't get out aggressively especially in the pennsylvania area, in the philadelphia area where many times republicans lose 500,000 votes before you even start counting votes in central and western pennsylvania. does hillary clinton have what it takes to get the voter turnout that barack obama got in 2008 and 2012? is any of that transferrable?

>> we will have to see. part of what i'm seeing in the poll data is that the battle for the soul of the democratic party that we saw in the primary is continuing in the presidential election. so we see the demographics that were supporting bernie sanders, young voters, black millennial voters, latino voters in some ways, right, they are skeptical of hillary clinton, and so part of what we need to see from her in this moment is not -- to my mind, and this is of course my opinion. she doesn't need to bank to the right. she needs to bank to the left. she needs to speak more forcefully to those constituencies if she's going to get them excited to turn out. what i think we're seeing is the continued battle for the soul of the democratic party. >> rick, let me ask you. white educated males going actually turning away from trump. >> they want to hear policy specifics. >> what does he do?

>> well -- >> he's given out policy specifics. >> like? >> his tax plan. >> the economic plan in new york was pretty good. in terms of how are you going to defeat isis? we'll have a secret plan. these things just don't wash. people want to know exactly what is he going to do? hillary clinton actually knows what she's going to do and perhaps in a debate she can -- i think she needs to -- i think it's going to come down to kp competence. she needs one sentence answer about the e-mail. don't be a lawyer. and secondly, she's going to need to explain why the middle east is the way it is. that's her biggest weakness that came out in that poll. explain it in a way that isn't her fault because the world is a complicated place. she doesn't have that right now. >> we want to move to charlotte but real quickly let's get a split screen. how do they move the numbers? how do they play to their

strengths and alleviate weaknesses on monday night. chuck, i'll start with you. >> it's obvious. for him he has to show that he has the temperament issue that's the number one problem he's got. over and above everything else. you saw that even tax returns doesn't move the needle on that front. it's temperament, temperament, temperament and her, judgment on middle east decisions was even a bigger issue for voters than e-mails, not to say e-mails aren't there but it goes to -- i think she has a policy challenge not just this idea of meeting a threshold to say that she has learned her lesson on these honesty issues. she's got to convince folks that she's going to do something different in the middle east. >> mark halperin? >> talking to strategist on both parties, there's consensus trump needs to be as was suggested

gracious, serious, not sort of excitable. try to put temperament stuff to rest. that seems to me to be within his control. clinton i hear different things. some people think she should basically ignore him. just talk about herself. talk about what she wants to do for the country and be gracious herself. other people think she needs the opportunity to try to do what's been the central mission of the clinton campaign for a long time which is try to destroy trump and bring him down. i think she faces that really big strategic choice. >> everybody tried that in the primary. doesn't work. >> don't try to destroy him on stage. >> it's not going to work. >> when you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty. >> and as my grandmother told me, and the pig likes it. joey, when you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig likes it. >> the idea that donald trump in a 90-minute debate can show a

new temperament and hold it together for 90 minutes that erases 30 years of what we've seen of him in his public life. he can't do that. people know him. you can't suddenly be this calm statesman. >> tom, do you agree with that? >> i don't know. it's a big risk reward for trump. that's why the debate is important. if he can stand on stage and project that he has temperament and presidential like he did when he was down in mexico, for example, he might be able to move the numbers. there are not a lot of persuadables left out there. the small number that there are left, they're going to be important especially in the states where it's a one or two-point race. >> all right. thank you all for being with us. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> there's only one don king. only one don. >> all right. you can say that again. barred from the republican convention, don king drops jaws on the campaign trail with donald trump.

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24 past the hour back now to overmight breaking news. a second night of violent clashes between protesters and police in charlotte. north carolina's governor has declared a state of emergency. initiating efforts to deploy the national guard and highway patrol to assist local law enforcement there. several were hurt during the protests in the uptown section of the city. officers in riot gear once again used tear gas to try to disperse the crowds. several people were arrested. nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez has the latest from charlotte. >> reporter: overnight a rampage in north carolina's largest city. demonstrators clashing with officers in riot gear for a second straight night. tear gas used to push the crowd

back. protestors tossing canste iningk at police. it's a tense atmosphere in downtown as demonstrators ran across a heavy police presence outside this hotel. a shot rings out. a protester down. authorities say it was civilian gunfire and not police. the wounded man rushed to the hospital in critical condition. throughout the night, at least four police officers hurt. nbc's tammy leitner. >> you see a female officer who has been injured. she's being helped by paramedics in riot gear. unable to walk on her own. >> reporter: emotions fanned on social media since the shooting of tuesday. this new photo apparently showing a gun on the ground next to scott obtained from an eyewitness by our charlotte station wcnc.

police say scott was armed. some eyewitnesses say he wasn't. >> he exited the vehicle armed with a handgun. >> did you see any gun on him? >> i did not. no gun. it was a book. >> they say scott failed to follow his commands. >> he stepped out posing a threat to the officers. >> williams says he was no threat. >> i see him getting out of the car like police told him to do. >> the officer who fired at scott is now on paid leave as frustration boils over. why are you out here? >> because i need the police to stop killing us. stop killing us. >> that was nbc's gabe gutierrez with that report. coming up, donald trump once complained about debates being on the same night as nfl games but ad buyers are already predicting the first debate will take a 20% bite out of "monday night football."

our political roundtable continues with bill krystol and steve kornacki. >> how do you plan to stay cool when hillary personally attacks you in the debate? >> well, they've already spent hundreds of millions of dollars attacking me. i guess madison avenue said go after temperament. i always felt temperament was a good asset for me. maybe my best asset in many ways. we know how to win and the country has to win. this phony charge of temperament and so we'll stay cool. we'll see what happens with her and we'll see what's going on with her. something is going on that a lot of people are trying to figure out and we'll see what it is. i'll be very respectful of her.

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male teacher: okay, veronica. amphibian. male teacher: excellent. welcome to a brighter future. comcast. now for something -- >> i have to say quickly, we get orphanage to make the sweater for mika's father. >> i'm using it as a foot warmer. >> i don't like playing tug of war. >> we can get orphans to make one for you too. >> i don't want donald trump's face on my back or front. >> that's what he says on the air. off the air trump is going to win. >> dear, mr. trump. i'm open-minded, right. i think i can help you. look forward to chatting on

november 9th. >> bill has the trump tattoo. he doesn't need the sweater. >> don't even go there. >> build that wall. >> all right. we have something from halperin heilemann. they find that although donald trump likes to impersonate his opponents and critics, he's no rich little. check it out. >> jeb bush, jeb bush, donald trump is not a true conservative. donald trump is not at 50%. more mitt romney. donald trump shouldn't run. conservative egg head donald trump. a couple papers, glenn beck. donald trump. donald trump's strategy doesn't work. "the washington post" donald trump wants to let japan go nuclear. donald trump doesn't like nato. donald trump will never run. i don't know if trump is going to win. he won't do well. he doesn't know foreign policy.

he shouldn't be allowed on the debate stage. donald trump isn't christian. tim kaine, donald is this and that. hillary clinton, donald trump, donald trump, donald trump, donald trump, donald trump, donald trump will not become the president. >> you wonder the range. >> there's not much range. >> it's stunning. >> idiot on tv is one of the fonts. >> all right. you saw what? >> bill krystol. his name was there. along with political correspondent steve kornacki. >> so brill krystol, you predic donald trump will be the next president. >> the only thing i've been right about this entire cycle is 3 1/2 weeks ago the sunday "the

washington post" was planning their legislative agenda, measuring curtains to the oval office. >> you disagreed and people thought you were on trump side. >> this overheated environment to say analytically trump has a one in four chance of winning. this is what hillary clinton is doing wrong as a political campaign matter. you're suddenly pro-trump. >> state of the race? i asked everybody earlier today state of the race. do you think it's tilting back to hillary a little bit? >> stabilized with hillary up a couple points. i would say this. a big difference from being ahead 51-45. that's kind of your obama, mccain or romney poll. it means that 20% of the voters are either saying they're

undecided. that's a lot of voters in play. easier to come from behind if you're down 43/37. that's on the high end of the range. you look at state polls and national polls whether hillary is ahead, they're in low 40s which means it's not safe. it's not safe. >> that is the best thing, one of the best things trump has going right now. it's a four-way race in these polls. that means there's more of a ceiling on trump support right now than on hillary clinton. you'll see polls why she gets up to 47, 48 sometimes. you don't see him getting that high. if you have the vote spread out and johnson taking real votes, are they going to -- >> i'm sure you looked into this. if i take a poll of 1,000 registered voters in florida and i say are you going to vote for donald trump, hillary clinton or steve kornacki. steve kornacki will get 12%. >> i could run at 10% right now. it has nothing to do with me.

>> i think whether you want to call it a false positive or whatever, when you give people the choice -- for instance, would evan mcmullin not get 12%? >> that's the question. is this going to fade out. when they get in the voting booth it's a choice between clinton and trump. the debate commission made its decision. gary johnson is not getting on the stage. ross perot got on the debate stage in 1992 and that made a difference. gary gojohnson will not be ther. >> let's assume that johnson, stein, mcmullin vote fades at the end. where's the default? is hillary clinton a safer choice? you could make that argument or to donald trump as the change candidate. one thing that makes me think trump has a one in three or four

chance is in a change environment, voters can decide to forgive a lot of faults of the change candidate and go for -- if they think he's less crazy than he looks. he says these things he shouldn't say. in the oval office he will be more sane and sensible but he'll shake things up and bring change. i think hillary clinton has failed on that. i don't understand why. what would she change? i asked this to clinton supporters, what would hillary clinton -- the country is on the wrong track. that's 2-1 sentiment among public. what would she do to put us on the right track? >> the map has always been tough for donald trump if you look at the coalition of states he would have to put together to do this. there are new swing state polls that show he has leads in places like north carolina and ohio. small leads or tied in florida. the map has gotten better for him over the last couple weeks. >> what he's always needed -- he

needs two things. he has to lock down the states that mitt romney won in 2012. the big question for him there is north carolina. there's been some encouraging news out of north carolina. another one out this morning that puts it at 41-41 in danger of losing carolina. if he locks down those states, which obama states are you picking off? the news for trump which is for the first time he moved ahead in average of the polls in a couple states. if you look in ohio, trump is up a couple points in the average of the polls. if you look at iowa, he's up. nevada now with new polling he's up and if you look at florida, dead even. if you add those two romney states he's still not at 270 but he's knocking on the door. what's interesting yesterday, wisconsin emerged as a better shot for him than pennsylvania. if he can get wisconsin added to what i just said and if he can get that one congressional district in maine where he's up ten points, he's over 270 at that point. >> wisconsin does it by my math. >> if he gets wisconsin and the

second district of maine, that puts him over the top. >> if he holds the romney states which include north carolina, which i think is a reasonable prospect now. he wins ohio, florida, iowa, he's at 259. he needs 270. what does he need? he would need nevada. nevada plus new hampshire or wisconsin may get him there or maine 2, northern district there. >> polls show him up 11. >> it's a narrow path for trump but it's not an undoable path. i'm impressed by that wisconsin number. i think the states that have fewer minority voters and are older electorate which is true of wisconsin, minnesota too. >> a better chance of winning wisconsin than pennsylvania. he's not going to win pennsylvania.

>> demographically wisconsin and iowa are mere images of one another. there's a good chance wisconsin will follow. >> the last poll had him up by eight points in iowa. that's shocking for a state that obama won two times. >> he's got to claw back some of those states if he's got a shot. we can put together these scenarios. it's a tough road for donald trump. if you're betting your house on it, you can bet on hillary clinton. seven weeks to go. dynamics can change monday night at the debate. >> so what city in australia? >> that i'm moving to? undisclosed location for obvious reasons. no offense, i would recommend the same for you. >> wow. you guys could -- you don't want to really tell -- >> you don't want to tell people. putin's people have a way of finding you. >> bill krystol and steve kornac kornacki, thank you so much. coming up on "morning joe" -- >> what do you have to lose? not going to get any worse? it's terrible. the crime, the bad education,

the no jobs. what do you have to lose? believe me. i'm going to fix it. >> that has been donald trump's pitch to african-americans and he says a "los angles times" tracking poll shows him to start to win over black voters. >> i know we have to go to break. have you looked at this "l.a. times" tracking poll. are they onto something that -- >> it's one of those things they are standing alone and everyone is looking at that poll every day -- >> what's their methodology? >> it's a panel. not a survey every night. most pollsters don't like it as much. in trend it's been helpful. it started to show a trump uptick. that was correct. more two or three points friendlier to trump than every other poll. >> reverend al sharpton to talk about this and latest in the police-involved shootings in charlotte and tulsa.

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>> america needs donald trump. we need donald trump especially black people. i told michael jackson, i said, if you're poor, you're a poor negro. i would use the n word. if you're witch, you're a rich negro. if you are intellectual, you're an intellectual negro and if you're dancing and sliding you're a [ bleep ] negro. so dare not alienate because you cannot assimilate. so you're going to be a negro until you die. >> there's only one don king. only one don.

>> donald trump on the road in cleveland heights in the latest poll. reverend al sharpton, do you want to respond to don king? >> not really. i've known don for years. don is a promoter of don and self-promoting dons standing there together. that's the picture of american politics on the right. >> that is awful. >> so you were, first of all, donald trump and don king being on the right of american politics shocking. neither have been in the past. help me out here. you were saying off set big difference between what happened to charlotte, which is in the headlines, and what happened in tulsa. explain that to our viewers. >> a lot of people are missing

that we have a race problem in the country and we have a policing problem. sometimes they intersect, sometimes they're separate. >> you say they're separate in charlotte. >> charlotte we're dealing with black policemen that shot and killed the mant we are seeing protests over. so this is a policing issue. we are kind of like meshing it all together. >> so in charlotte you see not as a race issue but as a policing issue. >> a policing issue. >> let's talk about tulsa. >> tulsa as you know the parents were in new york yesterday. they came down to harlem headquarters. this is an issue of the shooter, the police shooter who shot him, seeing someone who's walking with their hands up away from the police slowly and tased and

to go to mike's point, was he tased at first or second? puts his hands up. they showed a our headquarters yesterday where the windows was up. close pictures where the window was up. blood dripped down the side of the car. why did you shoot him? and one of the most compelling things i've ever heard in all of the years i've been out here was his father, who whose name is reverend crutcher, his father said the thing that hurt me most is that my son did what i told him to do. i said if police stop you so there's no ambiguity, put your hands up and he said he did that. he got killed anyway. this is a real, real bad case. i mean, we're rallying saturday in new york. i'm going to tulsa on tuesday for a rally. why would you shoot a guy? to come back later and say, well, there's pcp in the car which we still don't know is

true. did she have x-ray vision? what did that have to do with what you're looking at with a man with his hands up walking that doesn't look like he's a threat to anybody. >> as we said earlier, eddie glaude, if i a 41-year-old white man had a bag of weed in my car with my hands in the air, i certainly would not have been shot. >> absolutely. and i just want to push back for a second on the distinction between charlotte and tulsa. i think race still is involved even when black police officers are involved with black victims and part of what this entails are certain assumptions about black criminality. you don't need a white cop and black victim for that to obtain. and so i think it's really important for us to see these issues -- >> that was not my point. we have raised both. the case in new york were two

black cops. what i'm raising is when you deal with a policing problem, even black cops behave in a black community differently than they would in another clearly, . they would not have gone in another community, black or white cops, and did what we are seeing in charlotte, in my opinion. but i'm saying that you can't just make it cut and dry. one of the problems we have, and we always say this in the movement, is that you get to the therefore. yes, there's racism, yes, there's a problem, but you never get to the whereas. what are we going to do about it? we're sitting up here with no one really raising the questions of policy, the questions of legislation. we have a sentencing crime bill that is bipartisan. we can't even get speaker ryan to put it on the floor in congress. there's no one answering this we intend in tulsa to raise the question about putting pressure on ryan. we need to put legislation on

the ground so the young people see that somebody is doing something about all of that. where is paul ryan in all this? >> how do you provide legislation for the following? one, of the bottom lines in the tulsa story, and we certainly don't know the whole story. we only know about 5% of it, what we see in the tape. one of the bottom lines is this, how do you put a person on a job with a handgun who clearly is afraid when they see a large man, a big man of a different skin color, and they're also surrounded by six or seven of their peers? how does a person like that get a job as a police officer? >> and that's the question. one is if you go to the president's police reform task force, where they came up with recommendations for everything from body cameras to training, we need to, again, raise, continued the demonstrations. nobody does that more than we do, but bring it to legislation. why are we not enacting these

kinds of suggestions that come from the president's commission? will that be the subject in the debates on monday night? in the middle of what's going on in tulsa and charlotte, it ought to be central as president of the united states, what kind of attorney general will you have? do you support the sentencing reform bill? should ryan move right away? do you support the president's commission recommendations? other than that, it becomes a bogus debate to many people dealing with these issues in america. >> do you agree there are still unanswered questions in the tulsa shooting? >> there are unanswered questions, but i think if you go to trial, all you need is probable cause. >> right. >> and that's all i said with the zimmerman case with trayvon. if that tape is not probable cause, my name is not al sharpton. >> thank you, al sharpton. >> still ahead. >> thank you, joe scarborough. >> wall street is set to open higher after the fed decided to

keep interest rates unchanged. now, cnbc reports investor fz' next focus is likely monday's presidential debate. we'll go live from the stock exchange ahead. "morning joe" is back in a moment. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. try duo fusion!ing antacids? it's two in one heartburn relief. the antacid goes to work in seconds... and the acid reducer lasts up to 12 hours in one chewable tablet. try duo fusion. from the makers of zantac. is it a professor who never stops being a student?

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up next, hillary clinton leads dlt dt in a new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, and voters think she would be a better commander in chief than donald trump by a wide margin. but there's the small matter of only 31% thinking she's honest

and straightforward. we'll dig deeper into the numbers. and tom brokaw and hallie jackson join us. >> and a second night of protests in charlotte leaves at least one person on life support and the governor calling in the national guard. we have a live report. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪ americans are buying more and more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the united states postal service

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...before the girls even took the stage. safelite-dot-com is the fast, easy way to schedule service anywhere in america! so you don't have to miss a thing. y'all did wonderful! that's another safelite advantage. (girls sing) safelite repair, safelite replace. good morning. it is thursday, september 22nd. welcome to "morning joe." >> happy thursday. >> look at everybody. >> are you happy? >> with us on set, we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. >> guys, nothing?

seriously. >> they seem kind of mechanical. >> that's like being asleep at the plate. come on. >> speaking of, and former official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner is here. >> what happened to my little -- >> rattne rrk. >> in tampa florida, manager editor of bloomberg politics and cohost of with all due respect that airs at 6:00 p.m. on msnbc, mark halperin. >> those are some bright skies. >> and in princeton, new jersey, chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university and author of the book democracy and black. and columnist for "time" magazine, eddie glaude jr. >> they didn't make you drive the cab up today? >> but i'm alt mt. olympus though. >> beautiful campus. >> wasn't it tony robbins that talked about if you want self-fulfillment, you have to

help other people, right? >> i think he did say that. >> when we go to the orphanage, we always carry that with us. and i think -- >> what are you talking about? >> i think -- the kids of the orphanage have done a lot, right, to help people. i think this present may be the best. >> what are you talking about? >> willie designed it. i helped. and we want to give this to you to give to your father. >> what? what are you talking about? >> should i -- >> is it his birthday? no. >> should i? >> what are you talking about? what are you doing? >> this was hard. it was very hard. >> oh, gosh. >> here we go. >> wow. where did you get that? >> make the north pole great again. >> oh, my gosh. >> build, over here. that's for your dad. >> okay. >> here you go. >> i'll give it to him. we're going to washington. >> what's on the back? >> winters will never be cold again.

elves out. >> where do you get your hands on one of those? >> the kids. >> right. >> give that to your father. >> dad, i'm sorry for the ridiculous sweater. >> red sox, five up. >> another huge win last night. three-run homer. >> unbelievable. >> thank you for the sweater. nice about the red sox, but now we have to get down to business. we have serious news to get to. a second night of violent protests in charlotte, north carolina. the state's governor has declared a state of emergency after violent clashes between protesters and police following the police-involved shooting death of a black man. governor pat mccrory made the announcement amid escalating tensions in that city, tweeting that he had initiated efforts to deploy the national guard and highway patrol to assist local law enforcement. meanwhile, one person is on life support in critical condition after being shot during the demonstrations last night. initially, the city had reported that person had been killed but later clarified the condition.

officials say that shooting did not involve a police officer. also yesterday, donald trump has weighed in on the police shooting of an unarmed black man in tulsa, oklahoma. speaking yesterday in cleveland, the republican nominee suggested the officer in that shooting may have choked in the situation. >> i must tell you, i watched the shooting in particular in tulsa. and that man was hands up. that man went to the car. hands up. put his hand on the car. i mean, to me, it looked like he did everything you're supposed to do. and he looked like a really good man. this young officer, i don't know what she was thinking. i don't know what she was thinking. but i'm very, very troubled by that. >> the fraternal order of police endorsed trump last week, but

their executive director scolded trump to be mindful of due process before jumping to conclusions. >> eddie, the shooting, obviously, in oklahoma, there's absolutely no explanation for it. it's not like ferguson, where we've got to talk to a lot of different witnesses. it's not even like freddie gray in baltimore. we've got eyes in the sky over that, and we see exactly what's happening. >> right. we do. and you know, joe, this is such a difficult ritual. where we have to witness over and over again, it seems, the senseless death of someone in the black community. and the fact is that we have the evidence. we have already seen the kind of narrative that is being spun. police said they found pcp in the car. she said he appeared as if he was on drugs. that she -- this was the most she had ever feared in her life.

i think that's a paraphrase of what she said. >> look at him. i have seen this, hands against his car. legs spread apart. doing absolutely -- walking slowly. i don't know -- i don't know what people she has seen on pcp before, he does not look like a man under the influence of anything. look at that. >> and joe, we can extract a person who planted bombs in chelsea. that person can come out alive. your car can stall on the highway. >> yeah. >> and you're dead. >> look. they're showing it again, showing from behind, walking slowly. hands in the air. doing absolutely everything that the police would ask him to do. hands now up. look. seven, eight cops. exactly right. you can find a terrorist, get him out alive.

but a guy in an suv, arms in the air, air,eddee. it seems to me, eddie, there is absolutely no way that they can have the area's prosecutor handle this. they have got to have somebody who is independent and outside that region. because unless there is more evidence that comes out, i don't know how you don't charge this police officer. >> i completely agree. i completely agree. but look, this is part of -- and we can connect this to charlotte if we want to. this is part of the problem, right? so there's a sense in which we see this video. and then there's this insistence that african-americans across the country, that americans generally trust the process. but it's precisely the process that is called into question in these moments, joe. let me just say this really quickly. one of the most exhausting things about being black in this country is that we have to convince people, we have to convince white america of what is actually happening in our communities. and here we have a video,

clearly, a video. of a man with his hands up, seemingly complying in every way, shape, form, fashion. just as we thought we saw with philando castillo. >> we saw with eric garner. >> exactly. what do we get in the end? a dead black man in the street. >> it seems to me, mika, again, we have obviously been going over this an awful lot, but two things, bare minimum, have to happen on a state and national level. number one, body cameras on every cop. we needed to see what was happening on ground level. >> mm-hmm. >> and if -- and if the camera is disabled at the time of a killing, then the burden of proof is on the cop to explain why his or her body cam was not working. and secondly, you have to have independent prosecutors looking at this from outside the districts from where these shootings occur. only -- those are two basic steps, but they would go a long

way in stopping these trends. >> go ahead, eddie. >> but joe. let's look at the context of north carolina. north carolina just passed a law saying that they would not release video footage, right? body camera footage to the public. so even if we get it -- >> that's a justice department question. this is a national -- this is a national tragedy. it impacts law enforcement officers across the nation. the justice department should step in and need to take control of this. this is -- this is a problem that north carolina can't say, hey, this is particular to our state. it's nationwide. >> i would also just say when we talked about finding pcp in the car. why did that mean he had to be shot? if they found weed in my car, they found a bag of something in my car, or i looked like i was drunk or i was on something, they wouldn't shoot me. >> guess what? if you were white. >> that what i mean. >> if you're from the

neighborhoods we live in and your arms are in the air, you -- you know, you could have like pounds of coke in the back and be straight out of miami vice and you wouldn't get treated like that. >> exactly, joe. exactly, joe. >> it gets to the other question that you need right now. you need a full forensic breakdown of what happened here. you need why was the car stopped in the middle of the road? why was there such for tulsa, oklahoma, a rural road, no other traffic, you don't see traffic. why such a massive police presence? who tasered -- who shot first? the taser or the lethal shot to the person? and then you've got to figure out, we have to figure out, white america has to figure out the reality, the reality that to be black in america is to view things like this as part of a daily epidemic, as part of a daily danger that arrives when you walk out of your apartment. >> i actually think when you have newt gingrich saying this,

a couple months back, you even have donald trump yesterday saying they choked. i think we're getting to a point where most of america understands that, it is time for legislatures, for governors, for the a.g., for congress to step up. and take basic steps. >> but yesterday, you had donald trump clearly a graduate of the trump university law school, calling for the stop and frisk nationwide. stop and frisk. in these two cases, you've got two dead black citizens of the united states of america who were already stopped. >> right. >> just four days away from the first presidential debate, and this morning, we have very revealing new nbc/"wall street journal" poll. among likely voters, the poll shows hillary clinton with a six-point national lead. she's at 43% to donald trump's 37%. gary johnson at 9%. jill stein at 3%. her lead is at seven points in

the two-way matchup. 48 to 41. looking deeper in the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, there are clear differences in perception between donald trump and hillary clinton. on matters like the economy and terrorism and national security. the two compare favorably. but voters prefer clinton's approach to immigration by 11%. and when asked who would be better to handle nuclear weapons, clinton leads by 26%. on the question of who was honest and trustworthy, trump has the upper hand, 41%. >> we have to stop. we have to stop right there. >> hold the phone. >> but steve rattner, well, i've got to believe this is the most depressing number that brooklyn stares at every day, honest and straightforward. hillary clinton at 31%. donald trump, 41%. ten points. a man who is a human fact checking creator. >> yeah. >> i looked at that poll

yesterday and i was quite astonished. >> it's been that way for about a month now. >> i was stunned because of what you say, that donald trump can run around and say that, and backtrack on things he said, you know. >> for years. >> about iraq. >> about the president's birth. >> about birthers. >> the birther thing, most notably, where he completely rewrote history in terms of what he said, when he said it, blaming hillary clinton, all the rest of it, and yet this is where it sits. the problem is for mrs. clinton is she has had one problem after the other, the most recently being the health problem, pneumonia and so forth, and it's tough. >> mark halperin, yesterday, we talked to robby mook, asked if thigh change to plan to change their approach to the media at all after the pneumonia scare. he said, no, absolutely not. everything is fine. we're very pleased with how that went. you look at these poll numbers. though, despite her problems and despite fear and loathing in the

national press over the past week, that donald trump is going to win this, it looks like the last couple days, polls have come out that show a sort of back to where we were before hillary's collapse. >> yeah, i mean, look. the winner of this election is going to on election day have traits with the public in those poll numbers you talk about that are not going to look great. neither of them is going to revitalize or revolutionize their image between now and election day. the national polls, as we all know, are not the best way to look at who is going to get to 270 electoral votes, but they show trump still needs a surge. he needs a national surge to get more towards the mid-40s in his ballot number than he has right now, and he's being held back by, despite the fact that people see him as more honest and trustworthy, there are a lot of traits in the poll where she's stronger, including on things like terrorism, where trump would like very much, of course, to have the upper hand. >> you know, on friday, there

was, of course, his press conference on the birtherism. and his switch, and the press was angry because trump played them, the way he did. but these polls that we have seen the past couple days suggest that maybe that issue, him bringing it up, having to admit that he was wrong all along, may have actually depressed his support. are you getting that sense? >> you know, i'm not sure how much real people even paid attention to all that back and forth. i'll correct you mildly, you said it was a press conference. as we know, it wasn't. it was a statement. it was supposed to be a press conference. >> exactly. >> and the only reason i bring that up, except for talking to fox news, he's not talked to any other media that i know of about this. i still think he's got more explaining to do because of the sensitivity of this issue, because of the dark blot on his mark for the position he held

for so long against the facts. so there were three fox polls that came out yesterday, in key states that showed him with decent sized leads. >> we're going to get to that right now. >> but like i said, i still think he needs either through the debate or some other way, he needs a national surge or i think he's going to come up short. >> okay, and continuing on this poll, on the having the right temperament, hillary clinton leads by 33%. and on being knowledgeable enough, clinton leads by 37%. voters nationwide are most concerned about trump's temperament. 33%. the next most concerning issue, his comments about women, immigrants, and muslims. >> and look, one of the things that concerns me most, his love affair with vladimir putin. >> only 13%. >> only 13%. >> that's shocking. >> for the foreign policy implications of that and not knowing what his relationship is with russia and why he won't release his tax returns and why

he keeps saying nice things about putin and why he went on putin's network, that for me, is about as disturbing as the muslim ban. >> when asked the same question about clinton, 36% cited her judgment on syria, libya, and iraq. 29% are most concerned about her use of a private e-mail server for state department work. 50% of hillary clinton's voters say -- >> that last slide -- >> i understand it. >> i'm actually glad. they're more concerned about policy. >> than about her server. >> and more concerned about policies they disagreed with on policy than they are about the server. her judgment on syria, iraq, and libya, 36%. the e-mail server down at 29%. deplorables, next to nothing. and health issues, next to nothing. i think that's actually a very positive sign. >> well, people are thinking about the right things. >> paying attention. >> 50% of hillary clinton's voters say their vote is in support of hillary clinton more

so than it is against donald trump. but look at trump voters. 51% say their vote is against hillary clinton. as opposed to 41% who say it's for the republican nominee. >> we're going to get to the polls in a second, but willie, i know you hear the same thing i do, lifelong republicans will say, in one breath, i'm not going to vote for donald trump, and then i say so you're going to vote for hillary clinton? i'm going to vote for trump. i hear it over and over again. people who do not want to vote for him but will not under any circumstances vote for hillary clinton. >> and hillary clinton has the same problem. she's not as bad as trump on that number, but 44% of the people who support her are voting against donald trump. we're not seeing a ton of affirmative voting in the election. we have a lot of people who find the other person unacceptable. it's interesting on the two issue things which is that the clinton campaign has been driving temperament as the criticism of donald trump. that's been their theme, saying

he's unfit to be president. it looks like that's registering. the number one compliant people have about trump. the trump campaign has been driving deplorables as the argument against hillary clinton and that hasn't stuck as much. that's at 9%. >> still ahead on "morning joe," there you go again. the epic line ronald reagan used in the 1980 debate against president carter. he tried to use it again against mondale four years later, but mondale, he was ready for it. and what followed shaped the entire election. tom brokaw joins us with a look back at how a single moment can come to define an infire night and the rest of a presidential race. but first, breaking news from charlotte. a state of emergency as protests take over the city. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. have conquered highways, mountains, and racetracks. and now much of that same advanced technology is found in the audi a4. with one notable difference...

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back now with breaking news overnight. a second night of violent clashes between protesters and police in charlotte. north carolina's governor has declared a state of emergency, initiating efforts to deploy the national guard and highway patrol to assist local law enforcement. several were hurt during the protests in the uptown section of the city. officers in riot gear once again used tear gas to try to disperse the crowds. several people were arrested. this marked the second night of violence in the wake of the fatal police shooting of keith scott on tuesday. police say scott was given multiple warnings by officers to drop his weapon, but a witness add the scene said scott did not have a gun and was reading a book in his car when he was shot, and a police source confirmed in an image obtained by our local affiliate, there appears to be a gun at keith scott's feet in the moments after he was shot. we get this report from nbc's gabe gutierrez who is in charlotte this morning. >> reporter: overnight, a rampage in north carolina's

largest city. demonstrators clashing with officers in riot gear for a second straight night. tear gas used to push the crowd back, protesters tossing the canisters back at police. stores vandalized, dozens of arrests as the violence escalates. the omni hotel forced to lock its guests inside. the protests started peacefully but it's a very tense atmosphere in downtown as the demonstrators ran across a heavy police presence outside this hotel. >> a shot rings out. a protester down. >> they can't get in there right now. it's out of control. >> authorities say it was civilian gunfire, not police. the wounded man rushed to the hospital in critical condition. throughout the night, at least four police officers hurt. nbc's tammy leitner. >> you're seeing a female officer who has been injured. she's been helped by paramedics in riot gear. she is unable to walk on her own. >> emotions flamed by anger on social media since the shooting of keith lumotscott on tuesday. >> shots fired.

one suspect down. >> this morning, a new photo showing a gun on the ground next to scott, obtained by an eyewitness. a police source say it's genuine. two different versions of tuesday's shooting are swirling. police say scott was armed. some eyewitnesses say he wasn't. >> he exited the vehicle armed with a handgun. >> did you see any gun on him? >> i did not. no gun. it was a book. >> no book was found at the scene. police say scott failed to follow their commands. >> he stepped out. posing a threat to the officers. >> williams says he was no threat. >> i see him getting out of the car like the police told him to do. >> the officer who fired at scott identified as bradley vincent now on paid leave as frustration boiled over. why are you out here? >> because i need the police to stop killing us. stop killing us. >> coming up on "morning joe," donald trump tried to put off the birther questions behind him, but one of his well known

supporters won't let it go. hallie jackson joins us live from the trail. plus, tom brokaw joins the table. my lenses have a sunset mode. an early morning mode. and a partly sunny mode. transitions® signature™ adaptive lenses... are more responsive than ever. experience life well lit®. ...upgrade your lenses to transitions® signature™

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doubt. what changed? >> i just want to get on with, you know, want to get on with the campaign. a lot of people are asking me questions and they want to talk about the military, jobs, isis. we want to talk about bringing jobs back to this area because you have been decimated.

so we're getting back on the subject of jobs, military, taking care of our vets, et cetera. >> donald trump explaining her sudden shift in the position that he had on the birther issue, to a local reporter in ohio. joining us now from philadelphia, nbc news kraunlt hallie jackson who is krofcover the trump campaign. what's on tap today? >> i just got off the phone with an aide who said donald trump, we know he's going to be giving this energy policy speech in pennsylvania today. he's then heading for a rally just south of where we are in philadelphia, sort of between philly and wilmington, but he's also going to be talking about wh what we heard him discuss, this idea of a spirit of unity. he brought that up on the fox and friends interview just within the last hour or so. he is, i'm told, going to address the events, again, over these last 48 hours. trump has come under fire for his outreach to the african-american community in light of his call for this national stop and frisk policy, and frankly in light of the

sound bite you played, for his birther comments, his statement on birtherism, he now acknowledged president obama was born in the u.s. because he wanted to get on with the campaign. democrats are pouncing saying you didn't really change your mind. you wanted to change the topic of the conversation. >> nbc's hallie jackson, thank you very much. we're now just four days away from the first presidential debate between hillary clinton and donald trump. and no one knows for sure what to expect from the first face-to-face matchup, but one thing we do know, debates have the power to make and break presidential campaigns. we're now joined by a man who knows a thing or two about presidential debates. special correspondent tom brokaw, and you're taking a look at how debates played a huge role in the re-election of ronald reagan. >> i am. we also ought to take a moment and kind of review the debate history. these are the super bowls of these presidential campaigns. they have become thought. it began obviously with richard nixon and john f. kennedy and

people weren't allowed from that gerald ford liberated the polls. that heard him a lot. mike dukakis was debating in ucla and was asked ubhis opposition to capital punishment, what if your wife was raped and killed, what would you do? he gave a kind of harvard thesis response to it. it was not personal, no emotion attached to it. that hurt him. people forget that ronald reagan going into his second term, debating against walter mondale in kansas city, he had a lot of go goodwill, which helps him, but we'll tell you what happened and the history of the debate and the history of debates going forward. >> no one knew better than ronald reagan that one powerful memorable line can win a debate. >> can you turn the microphone on? >> i -- >> never mind that that line echoed the 1948 classic film,

state of the union. >> don't you shut me off. i'm paying for these broadcasts. >> in 1980, it propelled reagan to victory over george bush in new hampshire. that fall, as the republican nominee, reagan showed he could go up against a sitting president. >> there you go again. >> that bravado helped reagan defeat jimmy carter and four years later, president reagan thought he would try the same line on challenger walter mondale. >> you know, i wasn't going to say this at all, but i can't help it. there you go again. >> but mondale was ready for him. >> remember the last time you said that? >> mm-hmm. >> you said it when president carter said that you were going to cult medicare. you said, oh, no, there you go again, mr. president. and what did you do right after the election? you went out and tried to cut $20 billion out of medicare. >> mondale had a good night. but more to the point, reagan had a bad night. unfocused, poorly prepared, and it showed.

>> the system is still where it was with regard to -- the with regard to the progress, as i said. >> the great communicator was not great that night and it sent shake waves through his campaign. >> a strong reagan performance might have clinched the election, but what happened last night gave the democrats new life. >> today we have a brand-new race. >> some of mondale's operate chbs were busy today subtly suggesting last night's debate may be a sign that president reagan is getting too old for the job. >> the age issue, it became front page news. reagan, then 73, was the oldest president in history. and voters inclined to give him a second term suddenly had some doubts. >> the white house today did everything but put a super man cape on president reagan as it wrestled with questions about his age and fitness. >> along nancy reagan, the

protect's protector in chief, took her concerned to campaign chairman paul waxal. he then publicly blamed reagan's aides for debate preparation process that he said brutalized the president. >> totally unfair for the campaign to impose upon him a process that would be intolerable, i'll be frank to tell you, for a 21-year-old. >> but reagan himself later acknowledged he alone was to blame, saying i wasn't really ready or up to it. the campaign brought in media c c c consultant roger ailes to kroech the president. when the night came, nancy reagan was seated down front where the president could see her. 67 million americans were watching, and they didn't have to wait long. >> mr. president, i want to raise an issue that i think has been lurking out there for two or three weeks. >> the only question that really mattered that night. was ronald reagan too old to be president? >> not at all.

i want you to know that also i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i'm not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience. >> it was a home run. even mondale laughed. reagan glanced over at nancy and like the pro that he was, reached for a glass of what toor let the moment play out. the debate had an hour to go, and the election was still more than two weeks away. but effectively, it was over at that moment. >> he won. he won. >> she says i won. >> what do you say? >> in a single stroke, the president had reassured the country that he was okay. that he was not too old. he won re-election in a landslide. >> four more years! >> thank you. >> on election night, as supporters chanted four more years, ronald reagan had one more one liner. >> i think that's just been arranged.

>> tom -- >> wow, gosh. >> incredible. >> that's a reminder that these debates, joe and mika, are really very impressionistic. these are not legal briefs. he people are not saying, you misspoke and did not use the right syllable. it's a kind of impressionistic experience for everyone. i think we'll see a lot of that comi coming up this next week. we all pay attention to the details. in america, they're still trying to make up their minds. >> by the way, you're right. it is always -- it's that one moment. you go back to 1976, everybody remembers '80, but mike, 1976, you know, jerry ford says that the soviets aren't dominating eastern europe, and max frankel said excuse me, and he repeeted it again. and ford, who was sort of seen as a bumbler, who was making an

extraordinary comeback at that time, obviously, that's something that connected with americans. >> well, as tom pointed out, i mean, both he and i were in nashua for that -- i paid for this microphone moments, and debates, if nothing else, tom, if nothing else, they're a tribute to the power of the single moment and a single line by a single candidate. >> yeah, i'm the one who asked dan quayle the third question about whether he was prepared to be president if something happed. he then compared himself to john f. kennedy, and lloyd benson turned to him and said i knew john f. kennedy. he was a friend of mine. you'renone john kennedy. that got a lot of play. dan quayle still got elected, but a friend of mike's who was a friend of kennedy's called later and said we have gone through the files. i we don't think lloyd benson was a friend of john. >> that didn't matter. >> didn't matter at all.

>> no question, tom, these are impressionistic. people want to see what these two candidates could look like as president of the united states. if you're thinking about donald trump after 14, 15 months now of being donald trump and who he is, and full of bombast and one liners and all the rest of it. what does he have to do on the stage on monday night to reassure people? >> i think in this case, and both cases, by the way, i think in this case, he has to prove that he can be presidential. it's not just always shoot from the hip. and have a more complete idea of what it is that he wants to do, not just a bunch of one-liners. and my guess is that he has to dabble down on the meanness on her part. even in her campaign, they're saying she has to tell the country why she wants to be president. it's not just her turn. it's what she's going to do and how she's going to do it. because she is kind of taken for granted it was her turn at this point, and a lot of her policies are kind of rewritten rules from

past campaigns in the democratic party. i think they both have a big challenge that night. and by the way, given the way these polls are going, if you look at the whole country, the whole country is not in love with either one of them. they have their core following, but then people are moving back and forth constantly, taking a measure of them. that's not unusual. what will happen after these debates is that ten days or a week before the election, people will sit down in coffee shops or at the kitchen table and they'll say, you know, what do we want here? what is it we think -- which person can deliver what we need for the next four years? so we get all excited about it at this stage. the country is always much more patient about that, taking it all in. i spent the month in august in montana, and you know, it's a very political state. almost no one was talking about the campaign. >> yeah. >> you know -- >> river had to be shut down, what are cattle prices doing? is the population up for a good hunting season?

that's what they're talkinguct. >> it's notgist the debate. the debates are extraordinarily important. it's how the candidates react to the debates. after reagan's horrific performance, you may remember where he seemed to be so old, he got under mondale's skin. and i just looked it up. helen thomas article from october 10th, 1984, where ronald reagan said, yeah, i would have looked younger, too, if i wore as much makeup as he did. >> oh, yeah. >> and the next debate, mondale had no makeup. he looked pale. got under his skin. so it's also how you react to what's happened during the debate. >> by the way, ronald reagan's campaign slogan, 1980, take a look. see if you guys recognize this. look. >> let's make america great again. >> there you go. tom brokaw, thank you. >> tom, that was fantastic. >> amazing. really fun. >> always a pleasure.

>> still ahead -- >> big night coming up this week. >> big night. still ahead, she may be a senator's daughter, but the ceo of the company that makes the epi-pen found few friends on capitol hill yesterday. >> it just feels like you're not being candid and honest with congress, who is asking you for some very basic information. >> and we -- >> and your attorneys over there are scrambling, all uncomfortable, but you know what, we just want basic information. you dug this hole for yourselves. you guys dug this hole for yourself. >> the ceo of milan defends hiking the price of the life-saving epi-pen that lawmakers weren't buying it. business before the bell coming up next. before taking his team to state for the first time... gilman: go get it, marcus. go get it. ...coach gilman used his cash rewards credit card from bank of america to earn 1% cash back everywhere, every time. at places like the batting cages. ♪ [ crowd cheers ] 2% back at grocery stores and now at wholesale clubs.

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for your retirement, you wanted to celebrate the little things, before they get too big. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. td ameritrade. explain to me when you buy the generic version, what is the

generic -- what's the difference in the generic version? just the name? >> it will be -- we will -- it will be the same product with epianephrine auto injector on it. it will be the same product. >> suddenly it's $608, now you're going to have a generic of the generic and that's going to be $300? >> we cut the wholesale acquisition price in half. >> and the only thing you changed is the name? this is why we don't believe you. >> oh, god. >> that was the ceo of mylan being questioned on capitol hill yesterday over her comments over price hiking on life-saving epipens. time for business before the bell with sara eisen. before we get to that story, stocks look to keep yesterday's rally going on the fed rate decision. >> the fed decided not to do anything yesterday. and that was a green light for investors to keep buying. there was a slight probability going into the meeting yesterday that maybe the fed would raise

interest rates as the economy continues to heal. that is of course a risk to the markets. they like a patient fed, which is what they got. but janet yellen, the head of the federal reserve, did indicate there is still room to raise rates at some point this year, so now the betting is that they will move in december, if the economy continues to show improvement. what it means for main street if you're still thinking about going out and getting a mortgage or an auto loan, there's still time. we still have super low rates. and investors certainly like that. as for mylan, you just got a taste there with that clip of the bipartisan beatdown that the ceo heather bresch got on capitol hill yesterday. plenty of questions about those steep increases in price of the epi-pen. remember, $100 for a pair back in 2007. now more than $600. she defended the company, saying they don't make a lot of that money. they in fact earn about $100 out of the $600 because a lot goes into the supply chain and the

input costs. the congressman didn't seem that pleased with the answers or the fact she's going to release the generic drug and help with out of pocket costs. this also came after a revelation by the usa today that she had some family heb with this, that her mother gale manchin, actually, used to work at the head of the national association of the state boards of education. powerful group representing education, back in 2012, that actually pushed states to draft laws that would require schools to supply epi-pens. she was asked about this. certainly does not look good. and a conflict of interest, as you guys might imagine. she said this is a cheap shot to bring her mother into this, and said kids were dying on playgrounds before epi-pens were required in schools so it was a safety issue. clearly, there's going to be more political heat on this one, but certainly, the house committee did a good job of channeling the public's anger. >> all right, thank you so much,

sara eisen. >> thank you. >> we're back in a moment with much more "morning joe." look at all these purchases you made with your airline credit card. hold on...you only got double miles on stuff you bought from that airline? let me show you something better. the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase... not just...(dismissively) airline purchases. every purchase. everywhere. every day.

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donald trump met with the egyptian president in new york city while he's in town for the u.n. general assembly. trump said he's always felt connected to egypt. because trump university was a huge pyramid scheme. >> okay, so i don't know where

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see what the power of points can do for your business. it's what the national debt could do to our economy. if we don't solve our debt problem 19 trillion and growing money for programs like education will shrink. in just 8 years, interest on the debt will be our third largest federal program. bad news for small businesses. the good news? there's still time for a solution. ask the candidates for a plan to secure our future. jeb bush is jeb bush. donald trump is not a true conservative. charles kraut hamer, donald trump is not at 50%. poor mitt romney. donald trump shouldn't run, bah bah bah. conservative egg heads. donald trump. a couple papers. donald trump. glenn beck. donald trump. ted cruz. donald trump. lindsey graham. donald trump's strategy doesn't

work. the "washington post," donald trump wants to let japan go nuclear. donald trump doesn't like nato. donald trump will never run. i don't know if trump is going to win. he won't do well. he doesn't know foreign policy. he shouldn't be allowed on the debate stage. donald trump isn't christian. tim kaine. donald is this, that. lightweight rubio. hillary clinton. donald trump, donald trump, donald trump. donald trump. donald trump. donald trump. donald trump. will not become the president. >> let's talk about what we learned today. i learned rich little is very lucky that he had the stage to himself back in the '60s and '70s and '80s even because donald trump would have given him a run for his money. >> you have to put a little nuance into your impressions. >> remarkable range. >> he has a template he uses for every impression. i learned from this polling that we got that this race is tight. hillary clinton has a lead, but if you look at ohio and dploflo,

north carolina, the states donald trump would have to sweep through, he's leading. >> if he sweeps those, and we figured ow this morning, if he wins wisconsin, three behind in wisconsin, wins though states, wins wisconsin, guess one electoral vote from the district in maine, he's at 270. >> oh, my lord. >> not saying there's 42.3976% chance of that, but it's out there. >> now, who are you imtalting? i learned my weekend plans. we're going to central park, or we're watching it on the internet, or we're watching it on msnbc. and that is the global citizen festival with willie geist as co-host with tamron hall. what did you learn, mike? >> the epi-pen story we just played, i wish that both of these candidates, all of the candidates for president could stand in line for just a day at any cvs drugstore and watch certain people of a certain age on fixed incomes register shock as they pay for those prescriptions.

>> $600. all right, that does it for us. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks a lot, mika. good morning, i'm stephanie ruhle. we have breaking news. it's a state of emergency, charlotte erupting overnight. >> what are you afraid of? >> stop killing us! >> protesters loo s looting st. police launching tear gas. dozens arrests. dozens arrests and a protester shot by another civilian. >> what if that was your son? >> the question hanging, did he have a gun? wildly different takes on what happened in the police shooting that sparked these protests. >> a weapon was seized. a handgun. >> he didn't have no gun. >> right there on your screen, a new photo shows what appears to be a gun on the ground at the scene. the question, was he