about a debate inside the clinton campaign and among democrats how to approach donald trump from a messaging standpoint and the ultimate decision to disaggregate him from the rest of the republican party saying he's even more extreme than the rest of the republicans. this is causing a lot of waves in progressive and democratic circles who are worried about down-ballot races and the implications on the rest of the election. this is something we'll keep hearing about. check out the story. >> mckay coppins, jeanne zaino, sahil kapur, thank you. all in with chris haes starts now. good evening from new york, i am ari melber. tonight, the wife of the man shot and killed by police in charlotte. this is the fourth night since the shooting by police that has caused a response of the governor a state of emergency.

it is certainly disturbing. the shooting in the video can be heard but you will not actually see it. as we have throughout our reporting on this, it is not known at this point prior to the video being released. ms. scott told the news she went inside her apartment complex to get her cell phone charger, and when she came out the incident had started. >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he has no weapon. he has no weapon. don't shoot him. [ bleep ]. >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he didn't do anything. >> drop the gun! drop the gun! >> he doesn't have a gun. he has a pbi, he is not going to do anything to you guys. he just took his medicine. yes, we're over here at lexington court. these are the police officers

that shot my husband and he better live. he better live. because he didn't do nothing to them. >> that is part of the video obtained by gabe gutierrez today. now one of the main contentions in this video is whether or not keith scott was actually in possession of a gun. of course we don't know. their statement was that the gun was recovered. we can't tell definitively from the video. we'll speak more about this in our reporting. the chief of police has refused to release the video, saying the case has been turned over to a state bureau investigation. also in the press conference he acknowledged the interest in this evidence. >> i know the expectation that the footage video can be the n panacea, and i can tell you that is not the case. there are other issues that have to be corroborated that you may

there was a memorial held for justin carr the man shot during these related protests on wednesday. we begin with tremain lee. what are you seeing? >>. >> i'll tell you ar the release of the dramatic video earlier, we expected an emotional edge on the protest tonight. you certainly got that with many people who said it only heightened their concern that there may be some sort of cover-up and we don't have evidence to suggest as much, but for folks on the ground who already don't trust the police the video further seeded that inclination, but again, tonight's protests expanded to 300 or 400 people, but it was peaceful the entire time. again, there were some ramped up emotions given the nature of that video when you hear mr. scott's wife saying don't shoot him, don't shoot him, it certainly added an edge, but it didn't translate into outrage or anger. for eight hours protesters

marched around state. at one point they took up the i-277 highway and police in riot gear quickly overtook the highway and pushed protesters off of the bridge, not literally, but off an exit. since then it's been peaceful. here we are outside of the charlotte police department where it seems that the protest is breaking up. a few moments ago someone stood on the steps and said be safe, stay in pairs, get home safely, but also stay vigilant, stay active and now you can see behind me, you still see a strong core group of people who have maintained their presence here on the steps of the charlotte police department. one thing that should be noted is that tonight, much like last night, the police have kind of stayed relatively low key, allowed marchers to have their way through the street. the police chief had said that the curfew between 12:00 and 6:00 a.m. will be in effect, but they're calling it something of

a soft curfew. basically, if no one acts up and there's no violence police will allow protesters to do what they've been doing all night, march, chant. >> from what you're seeing on the ground there isn't any particular different response with the video out today compared to the earlier evenings of protest? >> reporter: that's right. when you talk to, you know, an individual protester and you ask them if they've seen the video. they have seen the video. it does anger them. i spoke to one woman, hearing scott's wife's pain, that could be my brother, my son. when you talk to individuals it certainly resonates with them, but you don't feel the widespread kind of movement among the crowd. they didn't ramp it up any more so than they did last night. again, it's been peaceful, but certainly when they talk to

individuals, today was a big day, but then again, many of the folks here didn't trust the police department in the first place. they say something doesn't smell right period whether they saw the video or not and this just bolstered their claims. >> trymaine lee, thank you, as always for your reporting. the release of the video by mr. scott's wife raised questions about what can and what can't be seen and we turn to cal perry. we were in the newsroom when gabe gutierrez our colleague, first obtained this video from the family and we started watching a rough cut and we went to work and i was looking at the key legal moments and you were looking at a breakdown and sometimes zooming in and breaking down what it is and what did you find? >> looking for answers and we as a society are so desperate for sw ares and we heard it from the chief. these are not the end all, be all answers. the video is 2:12 long. we first see these items on the ground at about 1:24. we can go ahead and put them up

and we spot shadowed some of them and you see the items being flicked on the ground. these are glove sxtsz standard operating procedure, and they're putting on by the police officer with the greenish-brown pants and you will see the police officer in the red shirt and it's key this officer in the red shirt for a time line purpose you will see him bend over and pick up this glove. we keep going back to this officer with this red t-shirt and the black flack jacket and we do so because it helps us piece together the timeline. we can put side by side now, this basically shot from the video we got today and from we had from our affiliate in charlotte a few days ago, that red circled item, we had a police source say that's the gun. allegedly that's the weapon. on the right side of the screen the video from today. it doesn't exist on the right, why does it exist on the left. these two are taken at very different times. on the left you have crime scene, police tape and you have the officer leaning over the

body of keith scott. very different times and hard to tell, unfortunately, this does not give us an answer about the gun. what we do know from this video is that this poor woman shot this from a close distance. if you were to subscribe to the craziest conspiracy theories that are out there that police planted a gun on the ground that they did it not only with this woman filming, the wife and another video that has sort of emerged online from this hill sort of behind. what is clear about this video, ari, and we talked about this all day, the use of cell phones now as almost insurance for an entire community that has a very different relationship with police than an entire segment of our community and we're seeing this over and over again. we're seeing this more this year than last year and we've had as many police videos come out this year as we did in all of last year and it's not even october. >> cal perry, thank you as always for your reporting. the naacp has called for the public release of these videos and they should be called for a

release and said the questioning of the timing still remains up in the air. for more on this we turn to rodney sellers associate presbyterian seminary and a board member of the naacp. what are your thoughts after the video came out today. >> i think right now we have seen that there has been even more of the lack of clarity. the video complicates matters and we're not quite sure what's being dropped and we're not quite sure when the gun appears on the videos, and i think we need to have some greater clarity. so the thing that we would demand more than any other point in time is that the videotapes that the police officer shot released as well. i think the more angles that we get on this, the more of an opportunity we'll have to know the truth, and this is a complex situation. whether or not there is a gun there before or after might have a great deal to do with the trust that the people have in the police going forward. so this is a great deal that's resting on what takes place and what can be seen in these videos.

>> the state and independent inquiry that has taken over the case which is generally seen as a positive thing in places that do investigations this way because you don't have the local police investigating themselves, they put out a statement today saying they're going to move forward with this, but that the video as a matter of custody is still the property of the local police and they can release it or not. does that sound right to you? does that concern you? do you think that's more governmental passing of the buck? >> yes. >> actually, i think it's more governmental passing of the buck, but more than that, it shows an inherent problem. these tapes belong to the people. we paid for them and i was part of the group that demanded that the police wear cameras originally and these are our tapes. we own them, not the state and we should be able to get access to them whenever we need to. in addition to this, turning this case over to the state bureau of investigation is wholly problematic and in part the state bureau of investigation has been taken into the hands of roy cooper and

taken into the hands of the governor and someone who passed a bill that goes into effect on october 1st that says we will not be able to see this video unless we have a court order. in essence, the governor has been working against the rights and the will of the people and in this case, turning it over to the sbi might actually be handing it to the wrong hands, we would like to see the department of justice, a federal group investigate what takes place here and make sure that we have a group that truly is non-partisan, and non-involved in this case investigate what's going on. >> and final question, reverend. at this point, according to a lot of our reports on the ground these are relatively ground and wholly peaceful protests tonight moving toward a curfew here. are these protests winding down at this point? >> well, i don't think that they're winding down. i think that they're taking different shape. people are talking about what do we do? how long do we stand in the streets in protest. we should a worship service this

evening where we had several hundred people who gathered together in one instance. we had other worship areas and other activities going on in different places around the city, and i think people are starting to say now that we vented our anger and now that we talked about what the issues are, how do we begin to gain leverage on moving forward with them. how do we start to talk about what might the solutions be and how we can move toward a more productive level of discourse, so i don't think that we're seeing an end to the protest. i think we're seeing an evolution and a remanifestation in different ways of this particular protest. >> reverend rodney sadler, thank you very much, and good luck to you this evening. when we come back, president obama's reaction to the unrest following these recent police-involved shootings. that's right after this.

national museum of african-american culture opens tomorrow. >> part of the reason they am so happy the museum is opening this

weekend is because it allows all of us as americans to put our current circumstances in a historical context. my hope is that as people are seeing what's happened in tulsa or charlotte on television and perhaps are less familiar with not only the history of the african-american experience, but also how recent some of these challenges have been upon visiting the museum may step back and say i understand. i sympathize. i empathize. i can see why folks might feel angry, and i want to be part of the solution.

yes, as opposed to resisting change. my hope is that black folks watching those same images on television and then seeing the history representing this museum can say to themselves the struggles we're going through today are connected to the past and yet all that progress we've made tells me that i cannot and will not sink into despair because if we join hands and if we do things right, if we maintain our dignity, and we continue to appeal to the better angels of this nation progress will be made.

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what do you want the police to do? >> release the tapes. the truth shall set you free. all lives matter. the truth shall set you free. black lives matter. release the tapes. i'm begging you. please, release the truth. the truth shall set you free, and that's all i've got to say. >> that's a scene from an hour ago on the streets of charlotte tonight and our colleague here, chris hayes had a chance to speak with charlotte's mayor, jennifer meyers and the intensity of the protest surprised her. >> i'm surprised at the level of

response. this does not feel like the charlotte that i grew up in. it does not feel like the city that i know has been a hospitable city to build trust and community relations. it's painful. it's very painful and again, i want to thank all of the folks that are trying to change the narrative here and trying to bring peace back to our city. we are a can-do city. we are a city that has overcome some things in the past in a collaborative way and i am calling on people to do that again and to show the world. >> i am joined now by reverend peter wary and tamika lewis a charlotte uprising protester. >> reverend, your thoughts tonight and how all of this involves also working with the community that you've been doing, and where does it all go from here? >> well, i think first and foremost, ari, it has to begin

with release of the videotapes. we've been calling for this since the chief's press conference on tuesday, and we continue to believe it's the best and first thing that must happen in order for progress to take place. i heard the mayor whom i love say that we want to get back to the charlotte we built and that we love where there's peace, but the reality is trust between the african-american community and the police has died the death of a thousand cuts, and so while the protests may seem to have moderated a taste the fact is now people are going to move into their private spheres of influence and that death of trust will continue. police will be able to depend a lot less, i think, on cooperation and trust among citizens. >> tamika, beyond the tapes, what else are protesters calling for? >> we are also calling for the removal of the state of emergency and the national guard.

we are asking along with the release of the tapes that there be a full and independent investigation on the case. we would also are calling for the demilitarization and the defunding and investigation of itself of the charlotte police department and a full repeal of hb-972 and reparations to be sent to the families affected of police injustice in charlotte and the state of north carolina. >> tamika, how did you become involved in this and how long have you been doing these protests and what do you view as your role or the younger generation's role in concert or in contrast with the more organized african-american churches that have been doing this work? >> so i've been organizing in charlotte for the past three years. i localize here locally and across the state of north carolina as community members in the streets it is our job to keep folks safe and help their voices be amplified and maintain its narrative in the view of the media.

>> how are the churches working with what we call the younger generation or pardon the term, but different folks who have been getting more involved in these issues? >> with profound respect and appreciation, frankly. every movement for justice in civil rights has always been led by youth every time, and so we are just elated to see them and to walk alongside them in concert with them, and not in front of them and not over them and certainly not behind them, but on the lines with them. they've been on the streets and with protesters and protecting people and making peace and building conversation and the environment last night was much like boston common at lunchtime because of the work of these young people and collaboration with others. it's been a real spirit of cooperation which is why we are all chafed by the outside governmental influences which have insisted on this state of

emergency and this militarization which we understand, i know, for example having lived a long time that the national guard was not the only solution to the problem of needed additional resources on the street. >> reverend peter wary and tamika lewis, thanks very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. we will continue to monitor the ro tests in charlotte throughout the hour and also one of donald trump's former opponents endorsing the nominee, you may have heard about it, and it was a shocker. more right after this quick break.

welcome back. donald trump and ted cruz began the republican primary fight as allies of a sort. cruz drafting basically a lot of trump's wind early on waiting and hoping the front-runner would eventually crash and burn and he could pick up that support. he had responses on sitter like the establishment's only hope trump and me in a cage match. sorry to disappoint. #dealwithit. >> things change, you may remember and trump went at him hard on twitter about cruz's wife heidi and this meme unfairly comparing her looks to melania trump and pushed totally unfounded conspiracy theories that his dad had connections to lee harvey oswald and cruz would

go on to decline to even tell his fellow republicans to back trump at the convention. >> i don't get angry often, but you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids that will do it every time. donald, you're a sniffling coward and leave heidi the hell alone. >> this man is a pathological liar and he combines it with being a narcissist. >> donald trump is a serial philanderer and he boasts about it. >> if you love our country and love your children as much as i know that you do, stand and speak and vote your conscience and vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom. >> i am not supporting people who attack my wife and attack my father. >> that pledge was not a blanket commitment, and if you go and slander and attack heidi that i'm going to come like a puppy dog and say thank you very much.

>> and perhaps that is all now water under the bridge. today having overcome that loyalty to his wife and father, at least that part of the argument, he made, cruz went ahead and said he's supporting trump writing on facebook. if clinton wins we know with 100% she would deliver with left-wing promises with devastating results for our country. my conscience tells me i must do whatever i can to stop that. >> after a lot of months of prayer and reflection that i've decided in november i intend to vote for donald trump. now i know a lot of people in this room like i have struggled with this. have struggled to know what's the right thing to do? what's the right decision and

the honorable decision and i'll tell you, that's something all we can do is go to the lord in prayer, follow our conscience and try to make the best decisions we can. >> trump sounded pretty thrilled with all of this in a statement saying, quote, i am greatly honored by the endorsement of senator cruz. we have fought the battle and was a tough and brilliant opponent as you can no doubt recall trump hasn't always referred to cruz with such respect. >> lyin' ted, right? lyin' ted. >> you know, lyin' ted comes in with a bible held high, you know that, right? it's held high, he puts the bible down and then he starts lying all day long.

hillary clinton today called for the release of that police video showing keith lamont scott's last moment and we must ensure justice and work to bridge divides. an aide said clinton was planning to travel to charlotte

on sunday ahead of the debate and donald trump was also reportedly considering a visit some time last week and after the debate late today, jennifer roberts urged both candidates to delay those visits. >> we appreciate the support of the candidates. we appreciate that they're concerned about charlotte. at this point we do have very stretched resources for security and they are working around the clock. if there will be a way to delay those visits in terms of giving us a chance to get our city back to order and more to a state of normalcy that would probably be ideal. so there you have it. the idea is they are welcome, but the city prefers a rain check and in response, they would not strain city resources and plans to go to charlotte one week from sunday and as for trump, he did blame clinton for the unrest that's inflicting our country.

those peddling the narrative of cops is a racist force in our society and this is a narrative that is supported with a nod by my opponent. you see what she's saying and it's not good. shared directly and the responsibility for the unrest that is afflicting our country and hurting those who have really the very least. people that are having a hard time. >> joining me now, democratic consultant team carney and senior political columnist at the washington examiner. good friday evening, everybody. tim, let me start with you, with the debate coming up, no one knows what the questions will be, but it seems increasingly likely given these events and the summer we had that policing will be on the table. your thoughts on how that will go down? >> i think one of the things that donald trump tapped into that most of us in the media and political elites around the

country miss was that there are lots of concerns about law and order out there, and he went out and he tapped into that.

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what looks to be a peaceful protests and limited at this point in sicharlotte. stay with our live coverage.

we want to turn to breaking news and update out of washington state, authorities say four people have been killed in north of seattle in a town called burlington. one suspect is at large. this is a developing story and we want to give you an update at it. >> joining us, cal perry. >> this is population of a small town. you are looking at live picture of cascade mall and out of seattle of a massive police response of local state. now we are finding out that the atf is responding to this. the shooter is still at large.

we understand that ems crews have been deployed to this mall. there are wounded individuals inside that mall. department stores on either side. we understand that the shooter entered through one of those department stores and opened fire. one of the big questions here, the i-5 highway which runs from burlington to seattle, at least, eyewitness reports, the shooter was headed that way. >> cal perry, stay with us, our live coverage continues after a short break.

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you are watching msnbc, we are watching this protest. charlotte police pushed back on those demands to make dashcam

police public. governor pat mccory was asked of the video may clear up what happened and that would help the public understand what happened. take a listen to his response, he backed the chief of police who was not giving up the tapes and then he said this. i hope you don't take this in the wrong vein but i watched a football tape on tv and saw different replays and each shows something different. there are a lot of circumstances that involves in situations. it is not just a camera that involves in an incident, there are many other factors involved and it would be inappropriate for me to discuss other factors. >> paul butler is joining me now. >> it strikes me as incredible that an elected leader, a public servant is saying that he's

comparing a football game to a situation in which a man has been killed by offices of the state, concerns citizens, pro s protesters are marching to figure out what happened and all they want is the video tape and armed agents in the state are killing and they want to know what happened. the response is to bring in the national guard to watch over the marriott hotel and the carleton hotel. it says something that i think our values and all of that signifies by this man talking about a football game. >> it was such an out of touch remark. you can say that he has some to that. he has the transcript and he says i hope you don't take this in a wrong vein. it is one of those remarks and the rest of the press conference

today, we never said, mr. scott's name or never spoke of the anguish to the family. what do you think of the humanity of it? >> where you see people gunned down. today we saw the video and i said this earlier because it is so disturbing. that video starts with a wife shooting the video, worried about her husband and ends with a widow. >> what does it say about the humanity that some of these politicians and the governor included that it is not enougheenoug justified. >> that's why this movement has to be called black lives matter because a lot of people just don't get th. a man police have killed and not rendering him first aid, that's not the first thing they do. the first thing they do is put

his dying body in handcuffs. that's inhumane. that not only offends basic concept human dignity, you would not treat a dog like that. >> african-americans get treated like that all the time. in certain fundamental ways, we are not seen as equal or fully human >> the other thing i want to ask you that, the video does not show on camera the actual force shot which is a crucial part of this investigation. it shows the moment before, 51 seconds before and there seems to be apart of the police whether it is delivered or spun out of control. there seems to be looks like increasing escalation tactics. >> we have to talk about police training to prevent more videos like this when african-american are near the destruction area of their partners. part of this is deescalation.

if you got a call and somebody has gun, you don't roll up to that person exposing yourself as a threat and using that as an excuse to take the person out. you communicate and cover yourself. we want our officers to be safe. >> we know a large number of people police deal with has some kind of mental illness. apparently, it was true with mr. scott. there are ways to deal with that so we don't have situations like this. >> you are saying that is case of policing or race, this is also potentially based on what we are learning a case about someone that's a serious brain trauma or whether police knew that or should have been trained for. thank you for joining us this story. our special coverage does continue next. we'll be right back. you are watching msnbc, the

place for politicpolitics.

. the killing of keith lamont scott prompted protests. yesterday, steve harvey, and a social commentator told his sons what they are supposed to do when they are pulled over. >> put your rewrists and spread all of your fingers out and don't do nothing. show him your finger and get that window down and get that hand backup on there. all fingers spread apart. instruct him of every single thing you have to do. if you got to reach in the back, the glove compartment and you do it with the other hand so sir, i am going to reach in here and i

am going to use my left hand and you get the glove compartment fall open. let it fall open and do whatever they want to do and then you give them the information. always be politely refer to him as "sir" and do not raise your voice or talk back. submit to every single thing he tells you. >> joining me now is professor of jon jay college. and former chicago police officer, dometri roberts. phillips, when you look at steve harvey narrates that, people will hear different things. >> but, he's getting something more than that, is he? >> he's getting something more than that >> when i saw that and i am used to steve harvey on "family

feud." i was waiting for him to break out something funny. there is nothing funny about that. this is literally life and death. if you don't submit, you will die. when i look into their eyes, they're asking me, uncle phil, why is this happening. what steve harvey is trying to explain is not just what he's teaching them but what else they are learning. what they are learning is that encount encounters with the states are a terrifying things that could end your life. that script is submission, is that really american? >> the police are the most direct contact between the citizens and the states. you are teaching young people that they cannot be feared just for who they are and they think they may have age or see or changing the way they dress or how they look. it is really their body and what can you tell them about fixing

that. that's an extra burden that black and brown children have to carry everyday. >> dometri, how do you square that view that exists in many countries across the country of police forces and ranks and in chicago where you have been and cases that we have seen in baltimore and where the shooting officer may have been a minority as well >> well, we have a real problem with the law enforcement culture in this country. and as we see, cultures does not have a color. as we see black police officers killing a black man or a white woman killing a black man, the culture and the cultural divide has to be arrest aed and it haso be done very soon. my hope is we could see my program bridging that divide and those are training work and

conversations around building better cultural awareness in law enforcement agencies as well as our communities. part of the reasons you see folks protesting in north carolina is because they are not aware of the police policies. they have not had a seat at the table or have a voice and they don't understand what's going on. how do we fix this? >> we come up with sensible solutions like diversities and inclusion and emergent and we take citizens and put them in front of police officers before they get into the community and allowing them the cultural awareness before they get out and start policing. >> phillip, to that point, one of the concerns is as you hear sometimes of racial profiling and donald trump has mentioned it in certain context. part of the arguments we are hearing from some of the folks in the community is racial profiling works in multiple levels in minorities as more

likely to be suspects. then there is profiling for other members of society where we are seeing more likely to be victims. there is people responding to the video today who's saying gosh, i don't know how she had away with this, they would have rushed to the police. >> well, if you are from that community, rushing to the police, you are the second one shot. that's a life experience. >> that's exactly right. part of what we are learning is what black communities have learned for quite sometimes. it is a complex dance when you learn how to behave and what is a non threatening way. i want to go back to what the kids are learning. when i am doing my research with adolescence, they're being told by communities that they have to be men and stand up and god forbid they are being grown up with households where their father are not around.

you got to be a man. it is law enforcement's tactics to say that now, i am in control and you are not. you are not a man, aur byou area man, you are a boy. even if you are a boy, you are considered suspicious and criminal and just for the state of being a black boy. the problem is we have to figure out and not only changing cultures but changing systems where we are not just criminalizing the entire population of people just for being who they are. it is happening across different context and i would disagree that people don't know. people feel like police don't care. how do we change the system making people feel that they are protected and served and under protected. >> go ahead. >> we have to take a servicem service mentality. the law enforcement call is taught to enforce and not to serve. we have to turn that corner and

we have to put service first and take a service mentally. serve and protect. >> that's a fitting point to pause on and continue as the conversation will continue, conversation will continue. dometri and phil, carla, thank you. this conversation will continue. but up next is rachel maddow. >> he signed a public law that was called public law 107. it authorized what was defined in the statute of a national memorial commission. he signed the last day in office was to build a building that would be a memorial and tribute quote to the negros contributions to the achievements of america. 1929. calvin coolidge. e