but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? good morning, everyone, and welcome to "a.m. joy" coming to you live from hofstra university in hempstead, new york, site of the 2016 presidential debate now just 35 hours away. as many -- wow, got a great crowd here today. as many as 100 million people are expected to tune in tomorrow

night at 9:00 p.m. eastern to see hillary clinton and donald trump go head to head as they answer questions from nbc news' own lester holt. if you had any doubt that this debate will be like no other, consider who is on the guest list. after the clinton campaign invited billionaire and outspoken critic mark cuban trump retaliated by inviting gennifer flowers, the woman who had an affair with clinton 26 years ago and flowers accepted. mike pence insists flowers will not attend the debate. for the candidates, the stakes could not be higher heading into this debate. in a new "washington post"/abc poll out just this morning, clinton and trump are in a virtual dead heat among likely voters as determined by the pollsters. i'm joined now by congressman elijah cummings, a supporter of hillary clinton. congressman cummings, you've seen these polls. you see that they are

tightening. however you want to sort of read the likely voter models, et cetera, this is going to be a close race. what does hillary clinton need to do in this debate to sort of pull away from donald trump? >> i think hillary clinton has to not so much concentrate on who she is against but concentrate on what she's fighting for. i think the american people are now getting settled in knowing that their vote is going to make a difference and it does matter who leads the country so they want to know how will the children do better than they have done. they want to know about health care. they want to know who will be 'better leader with regard with dealing with international crises so there's a lot of issues here, and i think she has to not be afraid of donald trump. donald trump has basically been acting like a bully through just about every debate i've seen him in, and i think she does have to come back at him and make her

points clear, but she's got to tell the american people why she is going to be better for them and that she is -- she will take us forward instead of backwards, and i think that's what she has to do. >> and when you heard about this donald trump threat to invite gennifer flowers and then gennifer flowers writing on her facebook page, sure, i would love to be there, what did you make that? >> i just said it's so sad that so many people are suffering, so many people cannot -- they are living from paycheck to paycheck and we have to go through this -- these kinds of things, these side shows, and i've said that a lot of this election has been about destruction and distraction. destroying your opponent, but at the same time distracting from the issues that affect people on a day-to-day basis. we're watching right now, as we see relationships between police and african-american community having all kinds of

difficulties, but when you're talking about gennifer flowers and others, i mean, that doesn't help those situations and so just kind of upset me in a way, but at the same time i -- i know that hillary clinton will come forward and do what show has to do to make it clear that she is -- she has a plan to solve the problems and then to show people that, first of all, she gets it. alot of times i wonder whether donald trump even knows how most americans live and how they struggle from day to day, and i know hillary clinton is very familiar with that, and i think that she will show people that she gets it, that she understands what she goes through and that she has reasonable solutions to their problems and that she's willing to do it based on her history. >> and, you know, as a ranking member on the house oversight committee, we have watched you go head-to-head with republicans. you've seen their relentlessness and obsessiveness on certain issues regarding hillary

clinton. do you expect that she's going to wind up spending a good part of this debate redefending herself on things like e-mails? and if so, what should she say? >> i think that donald trump will probably raise the e-mail issue just like the republicans have. they have done on my committee, they have done five, quote, emergency hearings over the last five or six days but i think she has said in the past. she made had a mistake. she will not do that again and now she is -- wants to move on and address the issues that have to be addressed, and i can tell you that just watching what the republicans have done in my committee, i think that what they have done has been very unfair. they have basically taken this issue using that is the -- the e-mails and benghazi, using and made it into something that they just cannot get enough of and

over and over again they got the opinion of mr. comey, fbi director. he said that there was no reason to bring charges, and i believe him. i've read all the files. i've seen everything, but yet they still keep banging and banging and banging, and what their aim, is joy, is to always have this cloud hanging over her saying that she's under investigation when they well know that mr. comey who they admire, who they is a former republican has cleared her, so we need to move on. again, we cannot be constantly about this business of destruction and disruption. another issue i want to hear about is why does donald trump want to appoint a supreme court justice who is extremely conservative? you know, what's that about? where are we going there, and by the way, the number one issue

for me is the supreme court because he may get -- whoever wins will get a chance to appoint maybe two, possibly even three supreme court justices, and they can literally take us back 50 to 60 years in the wrong direction. >> we've been having a little fun on my twitter feed asking people if you could ask donald trump one question, if you could throw a debate question in, what would it be, would yours be on the supreme court? >> no doubt about it because i know what the supreme court has done for my rights, taken me from the son of two former sharecroppers to the congress of the united states of america through supreme court decisions, but i also know that this is the same court that if we had nine justices would have okayed the north carolina voting laws which were precisely done to stop people like my mother and father and me from voting, and i would also like to know from donald trump what is his philosophy on

voting rights? voting rights are very important to me. my mother and father fought for them. my grandmother and grandfather. don't take me back. i don't got to go time to go back. i got to go forward. >> indeed. congressman elijah cummings, always a pleasure to talk to you, sir. thank you very much. >> joined now by a senior strategist for the hillary clinton campaign. all right, joel, you heard congressman elijah cummings say if he could ask donald trump one question it would be on the supreme court or voting rights, if you can ask donald trump one question, i'll throw that question to you. what would you ask him in a debate? >> i can think of so many. i'd probably start with you have been the most fact-checked person in history by independent fact checkers. the all time record for lying and making false statements and you have refused to apologize for everything you've said, your gross exaggerations and distortions. 70% of the time you've been fact

checked and falsified by fact check and never apologized for it. >> let's go to hill hi. are you a part of the team working on trying to prep hillary clinton for the debate. what do you think her strategy will be if donald trump decides to go for the jugular, to try a low blow? we've seen gennifer flowers invited to the debate. we don't know if she will actually be there, but given the fact that donald trump has to go there, if he tries to throw bill clinton's former infidelities at her, what will she do? >> i think hillary clinton is a seasoned hand at debates. she knows how to handle herself well, and i think what she believes, i think what the american people believe is they want to hear from these two people talk about how they are going to change people's lives for the better going forward, how they are going to help their kids get a better education and how incomes will rise and create good supporting jobs in the future, one you can raise a family on and the one with the

steadiness in the world to keep america safe in very challenging times, and i think she will focused on that because this election and these debates are ultimately about the lives of millions of american people and their families who are still striving and struggling to get ahead and stay ahead. >> and, joel, it should be about that. we know it winds up being a tv show, sometimes style more than about substance, unfortunately, and we've already begun to see the lowered expectations for donald trump. it's built in that people expect if he just speaks slowly, doesn't yell, doesn't scream, that he'll get points for that from -- from, unfortunately, most of us in the media and you're looking at the "washington post"/abc took a poll in which 44% of people say they expect hillary clinton to win and 34% expect trump to win. are the expectations for hillary clinton so high, that if she's anything less than a master debater she will be declared the loser of that debate?

>> no. i don't think the expectations are so high. donald trump has trumpeted his success in debates. he has obviously went up against many people, or as he would say many, many people in the republican debates, and he touts his -- his experience. we expect it to be a substantive debate. we expect it to be focused on facts, not fiction. the real details of what you're going to tell the american people, how you're going to make their lives better. you know, hillary clinton always has this thing she said. i heard her say it one day, and she's repeat it had a lot. you know, she has an old-fashioned idea when you're running for the president of the united states you ought to tell the american people what you're going to do for them, how you're going to get it done and how you're going to pay for it, so we're expecting it to be very substantive. we'll let donald trump, you know, expose himself in who he is in the way he has throughout this campaign. we will prepare for anything and we've seen him.

as i say, he's the -- the "new york times" today or yesterday i think posted 31 whoppers, flat out lies and gross distortions that donald trump uttered just in a seven-day period between september 15th and 21st so we think during this debate we hope and expect moderators will hold him accountable for those things. we certainly will be presumed for it. i don't think he'll be able to do that through a 90-minute debate but we're ready for anything. >> and lastly is she going to try to rattle him, putting mark cuban in the front row is certainly first class trolling of donald trump. is she going to try to rattle him during the debate? >> i think she debates extremely well. she feels very confident in these settings f.donald trump is so thin-skinned that mark cuban sitting there would rattle him because he's a really successful businessman or billionaire who believes in things like profit sharing, that come have to rise in america as opposed to donald trump who think wages are too high, he said it himself,

that wages are too high in america and we should get rid of the federal minimum wage, i think that those are the things that should rattle donald trump. he is so wrong on the substance of where american working people are and what it takes to get them raising more money for their families, having more money to raise their families on. getting their kids in education they deserve to give them a better future and a chance to get ahead. that's what the american people want to hear in this debate and that's what hillary clinton is going to be prepared to make the case for very strongly going toe to toe with donald trump. >> all right. we will definitely all be tuned in. joel bennenson thanks you very much. >> great to be here. >> i want to bring in my panel, are all right, lady and gentleman, you heard what joel had to say. heard what congressman elijah cummings had to say. perry, let's start with the expectations game. i think it's fair to say that the sort of -- the world of

punditry is going to assume that donald trump is not as good a debater as hillary clinton, assume she's got this expertise in debates and have a lower bar for him. do you think that that's true, and do you think that that's fair? >> i think that's true. i don't think it's really fair. i mean, that said, the pundits' view, i'm curious where the vote remembers going to movement you've seen the last three weeks where donald trump has had a bit of a surge after he was struggling in august. what i'm curious about is we've had one big moment that change the the polls and that was in august when trump was feuding with the khan family, a clear moment where he lost three to four points, and i'll be curious in these debates, the pundits say, does he make that kind of mistake where he -- right now he's doing pretty well with republicans, pretty well wind penalty. can he maintain that and not make spot kind of very controversial remark that hurts him because that's where he struggles when he gets off message to the point where he insults people in a way that annoys even republican voters. >> yeah, and i think to that

point, sarah, you do see donald trump doing better in polls. a fox poll in ohio that shows him ahead of hillary clinton 42-37 in a four-way race with johnson and stein done, a combined 8% and go over to the suffolk university of ohio voters, donald trump at 42 and hillary clinton at 39 and stein and johnson a combined 5%, from the 12th to 14th of september. go over to pennsylvania, this one is likely a little more alarming to the clinton camp. it's a very small sample poll, i should say. it's a morning call/mullenberg, 44% for hillary clinton and 41% for donald trump. 500 people, definitely a small sample and polls are tightening so what would happen for current soft trump supporters to move away from him after watching that debate? >> that's an interesting question, and, you know, we've also needed to debate whether these debates matter.

i was of the belief that in fact these debates would matter quite a bit, is especially this first debate but as we're looking at the polls coming out today, in fact, strong trump supporters and strong clinton supporters are very eager for the debate but independents far less so, so it's unclear whether these debates will matter, but obviously the polls are tightening. the clinton camp has the most to lose by far, and what joel doesn't want to tell viewers is that it's not whether hillary clinton is a good debater. it's when she's evasive and uses legalese. she's going into this debate less trusted than donald trump which is why you're hearing him talk so much about fact checks so she's got an uphill climb and it's not just debate performance. it's her tendency, the clinton tendency to, you know, parse over what the definition of is. >> perry to that point, hillary clinton does have the built-ins that she's going in with that make it difficult for her to have a clear debate performance win. donald trump is a known quantity. if he's' rattic, they expect him

to be erratic. does hillary clinton have more to lose? >> the race is tied. bolt people have a lot to lose. i'm not sure i want to suggest that one person has more to lose than the other does. the question for trump is debates are very hard. donald trump has never been in a one-on-one debate. doesn't tend to have a great grasp of details of policy and i think you can hear that in his answers. so in a lot of ways trump has the challenge of can he explain positions clearly? can he articulate -- i think you can't do a debate like he did with matt lauer where he basically said i have a secret plan to fight isis i can't tell you about. i think he has to be able to speak in detail about debates. the challenge for clinton is you're right, people expect her -- for her to have detailed answers. it's going to be hard for clinton to surprise us by being good in debates, as we expect her to be. that is a challenge but it's easier to start from the place that you know the answers than to some extent about whether you know the answers. >> there will be no be his new

friend teleprompter will not be there. >> appreciate it. terry, appreciate it and sarah will be back later in the show. tomorrow night hillary clinton makes history as the first woman to take the center stage in a presidential debate. we'll speak to presidential historian doris kearns goodwin. she's here next. ♪ ♪ take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive. the nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. now get 0% apr for 72 months, plus $500 bonus cash. we thought fibers that caused unwanted gas.gular not good. then we switched to new mirafiber. only mirafiber supports regularity with dailycomfort fiber

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tomorrow, hillary clinton will make history as the first woman to take the stage, there they are, at a presidential debate at a presidential election debate. the women have taken the podium in primary debates before. clinton did it in 2008 when she challenged then senator barack obama, and in 2011 there was gop candidate michele bachmann, and

carly fiorina stood out in last year's crowded republican stage. long before them shirley chisholm, the first black woman to run for president for a major political party debated as well, back in 1972, but not without a fight. the democratic congresswoman had to file a complaint with the fcc to ensure that she was included in a televised debate. joining me now is presidential historian doris kearns goodwin. it's such a pleasure to talk to you. thank you so much for joining me, doris. >> thank you. i'm glad to be here. >> let's talk about this historic thing that is happening. i think we haven't paid as much attention to the first woman part of the things that hillary clinton is accomplishing in her run for president. in your view as a historian, what does it mean to have hillary clinton on that stage? to have a woman on that stage? >> actually i think that's huge to borrow from mr. trump, and it's interesting that we haven't focused on it as much. i mean, in a certain sense in '08 when she became almost the

nominee there was the first african-american nominee so it was overshadowed, and in this year in 2016 the first woman to win the nomination of a major party and it's overshadowed by the trump phenomena, but i do think if she were to win, i think when people wake up that next morning after the election, it's going to be a big thing that we finally after 44 presidents who are male, one after the other after the other, after hundreds of years, that there would be the first woman president. i think it's much bigger than we're allowing ourselves emotionally to recognize right now. >> if you go back and look at the women when i was growing up, geraldine ferraro was the first woman you saw on that big national stage in her vice presidential debate in 1984. i want to play just a little bit of a clip of that, and then i have a question on the other side. >> sure. >> let me help you with the difference, miss ferraro between iran and the embassy in lebanon. iran, we were held by a foreign government. in lebanon, you had a wanton,

terrorist action where the government oppose it had. >> let me just say, first of all, that i almost resent, vice president bush, your patronizing attitude, that you have to teach me about foreign policy. i've been a member of congress for six years. i was there when the embassy was held hostage in iran, an i have been there and i have seen what has happened in the past several months, 17 months with your administration. secondly, please don'tcality grise my answers either. leave the interpretation of my answers to the american people who are watching this debate. >> doris, geraldine ferraro became a controversial supporter when she supported hillary clinton back in 2008. issues that she said about barack obama but put her in a historical context in terms of how important it was for her to be on that stage and what did she sort of accomplish for women? >> at the time, again, after she was nominated, there was a hope among women that it represented a huge step forward and that now we were going to see more and

more women as vice presidential candidates, as presidential candidates. it's taken a longer period than we might imagine but that clip you showed she couldn't have handled it better. i don't think george bush sr. patronizing condescending man and the question threw him off her own personality. responded in sorrow rather than anger. a great marker for the debate tomorrow night when something happens. >> i go to go back and play a little bit of shirley chisholm in the debate she participated in with hubert humphrey and george mcgovern, et al. >> this is exactly what's wrong with american politics. unless you can buy or unless you have the money, people that have the ability, innovation, creativity in terms of putting new solutions into how government works are left out. >> those same issues were in play in the bernie sanders campaign. it does seem that we are in this sort of cycle where we're

talking about kind of the same things over and over again. we don't talk much about shirley chisholm he's 1972 run. what was its significance? >> i think she's touching right then on what's the major problem right now in our political system, the fact that it costs so much for election, the fact that the politicians are spending so much time dialing for dollars, that maybe the best people aren't entering public life because they don't want to do that. everybody knows the system is flawed. everybody knows money is too present and nothing is being done and there she was some years ago pointing it right now. >> have women in your view, in terms of the political advancement of women, as a historian do you look at where women are in terms of, you know, not half. senate, still behind in terms of the share of governors and statewide elected officials not to mention on the national stage running for president? just sort of put us on the road. where are we in terms of the advancement of women and in terms of power politics in the u.s.? >> well, it may be true that we're not as far along at all as we should be in the political system, but when you look at the

statistics about women graduating from college more than men, finishing graduate school more than men and finishing high school more than men. women are coming and it's only a matter of time now where that power that they are developing in the society and now having a different relationship with their husbands so that they can work as well as have children, i think that -- and we've said it before. it's women's time but i really think it's women's time now and will be symbolized by the first president. if it doesn't happen this time, it will happen very soon. >> absolutely, and i would be remiss if i didn't mention you interviewed president barack obama at the white house for ""vanity fair,"" an amazing piece, exit interview extraordinaire and want to read you a quote. this is the president speaking. i do ask myself was there something we hadn't thought of, some move that was beyond what was being presented to me that maybe a churchill would have seen or an eisenhower would have figured out. are the best decisions in that

moment given the information we have but there are times when i could have imagined a different level of insight. he's talking about syria. talk a little bit about the president's sort of ruminations on his foreign policy achievements and the places where he fell short. is syria the place where he feels that he fell the most short? >> well, i think surely he said he feels most haunted by syria. what was so fun for me as a presidential historian is i've been talking to dead presidents my whole life. i have conversations with them when i wake up in the morning and when i go to sleep at night and finally i got to bring all my presidents in the room and finally talk to him, and i think the piece that you just quoted from was one of the most interesting parts of it, he was saying what if i will the legislative acumen like lbj and been a genius like abraham lincoln and the charm of fdr, could there have been a solution for syria and other kinds of issues that out of the box i couldn't have thought of? i feel pretty confident when i health information in front of me i did the best i could, but that shows a confidence that at least hats humility of knowing

on the other hand that there is some other people with geniuses that i might not have been. he was really thoughtful during the entire interview and new presidents always fun to talk about the past as well as the present. >> we're out of time and i have to ask you this since i have doris kearns goodwin in front of me. which of these presidents that you've talked with, dead presidents throughout the year, which one of the dead presidents do you think barack obama is most like? >> the calmness and the steadiness that he brings to it, he'd like to think reminds him of abraham lincoln. he said in this thing that he wasn't an extrovert in quite the same way as fdr or bill clinton, more of a writer sensibility, and that might remind him of certain other presidents, but none of them remind you of anybody. they are all indistinct -- they are all distinct individuals the more i know about them and you can't really compare them. >> wow. well, doris kearns goodwin, such a treat to talk with you. thank you so much for being here, and everyone should definitely check out your interview in "vanity fair" with president barack obama.

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so live your whole day, not part... with 12 hour aleve. hundreds of people marched peacefully through the streets of charlotte, north carolina in a fifth night of protests saturday night after police released body cam and dashcam footage showing the shooting of keith lamont scott. police released only those portions of each video that they said were relevant to the incident. i want to warn you the video, of course, is disturbing. in the dashcam video, scott is in his vehicle as armed officers are shouting commands to, quote, drop the gun. scott emerges from his suv with his hands by his sides and slowly backs away from his vehicle before four shots can be heard. scott falls to the ground. the body cam shows a brief glimpse of scott backing away from his vehicle and then shows him on the ground as officers handcuff him. it does not show the moments of

the shooting. police chief kerr putney does not definitively prove that scott had a gun in his hand but a load evidence with scott's dna and fingerprints suggests he was armed. it's also uncleared from the video who fired the gunshots. the police chief said all four were fired by one officer. the police also sent out their time line of events where they said observer observed scott with marijuana and holding a gun which they say gave them probably cause for the arrest. scott attorney justin vanberg responded to the response by the police. >> one of the big questions when you look at this dashcam photos, when you look at the time frame between mr. scott stepping out of his vehicle to the moment he, unfortunately, passes away on the pavement is do those actions

do, those precious seconds justify the shooting? >> i want to bring in msnbc's ron moth live from charlotte. all right, what has been the reaction to the community to the release of parts of these video. >> hey, joy, good morning. anyone who would reach the decision that they believe the officer who fired the shots who killed keith scott, that the officer had somehow acted unbaleinebly to whatever threat he felt was there are probably feeling the same way after watching the two police videos and those who were consequently waiting for more information for those waiting for more information are feeling the same way because you really don't -- it's up for interpretation whether the overs thought that that threat would require excessive force or deadly force, so what's going to likely keep this debate going, as you mentioned, joy, not all the videos were released or evidence was released yesterday and that may mean that we may see more

demonstrations going forward in the you are foreseeable future until other evidence comes out. last night very peaceful. i've got to think that the officials here in charlotte are breathing a sigh of relief after that after the police videos were released. at the bank of america stadium, not far from here, the carolina panthers are hosting a home game in a few hours. we understand there will be some sort of demonstration outside the stadium. don't know exactly the form that's going to take. multiple media crews around the stadium, a lot of security outside that stadium and inside as well, so we do anticipate the people voicing their frustrations about this shooting last tuesday are going to make their voices heard again today. >> we know that game is at 1:00 so we'll be keeping an eye on it. thank you, ron moth in charlotte. up next, what's worse, lying under oath or deceiving your next supporters? our next claim that donald trump has done either one or the other. stay with us.

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in his latest deep dive on donald trump, "newsweek" reporter kirk ikenwald considers the new implications of a legal document, donald trump committed perjury or looked into the faces of the republican faithful and knowingly lied. there is no third on, unquote. this latest involves the question of whether or not trump attempted to ease the way for a new casino in florida by throwing money at jeb bush when bush was governor. the answer to that question depends on whether trump was telling the truth in a 2015 debate where he sparred with bush or in a conflicting story he told in a 2007 deposition. the "newsweek" senior writer joins me right now. i'm going to play really quickly the 2015 debate section and then come back and ask a question. >> the one guy that tried to get me to change my views on something that was generous and gave me money was donald trump. he wanted casino gambling in

florida. >> totally false. >> you wanted it and you didn't get it. >> i would have gotten it. >> i promise, i would have gotten it. >> i'm not going to be bought by anybody. >> i promise if i wanted it, it i would have gotten it. >> no way, man. >> believe me. >> nope. >> i know my people. >> not even possible. >> so how did that answer differ from the deposition that you uncovered? >> 100%. trump in the deposition said i wanted it. i threw fund-raisers for bush. i was trying to change his mind and, you know, i knew he opposed it, and the only reason i didn't get what i want was because the guy i'm suing cheated me. you know, it's -- it's -- it's the -- i mean, what's important is not just that he either committed libel or lied to the republicans. what's important here is it shows the essence of the donald trump lie which is whatever

circumstance he's in he's got to be the one who comes out on top, and so no matter what lie he's telling bush says you tried to buy me of course, no, i didn't. deposition, well, you tried to buy him of course, i did, but if it wasn't for the guy i'm suing i would have won. you know, each one is i would have won if i hadn't been cheated, if i wanted it, and that's the thing that's really scary about donald trump is he lies with such a facility and it's always about the end point of saying i'm great. >> just to dial back just a little bit. what was this lawsuit about? >> the person that he hired to get casino gambling into florida, neerds, the guy he was paying to do what he said on stage he didn't do was working for him, said it wasn't going to work and he was a consultant and

went to take a job with another company and trump sued him saying he cheated me because he worked for the other company and all the information that he developed for me. >> got if. >> now what does this tell you about donald trump? you've said essentially that it tells you that he has a curious relationship to the truth, but for a voter who is trying to decide whether that matters to them about whether donald trump should be president, what would you say? >> i think the biggest thing is points out is that we're not just dealing with a liar, i mean, in my opinion we're dealing with someone who has a psych rog call problem. i mean, if you cannot stand back and ever say, yeah, that didn't work out, if you always have to change the facts in order to make it be i am perfect, i am great, you're dealing with a narcissist who is perfectly capable of manipulating reality

to reinforce his own sense of greatness. the question comes down to, what i would really like to do is see donald trump on a polygraph machine and answer these questions where he is lying and see if it shows that he's lying because i think it would show that he believes he's telling the truth. i think he's a pathological liar. >> i would be remiss if i didn't very briefly ask you about the dustup of inviting gennifer flowers to the debate here at hofstra. >> that's a great example of one of the problems here. it's severe impulse control. you know, i mean, so mark cuban is coming, so he has to do that, and think about it. you know, who is he trying to appeal, to the bully vote? he's got that. women are going to look at this and -- what they are hearing is, hey, i cheated on my wife a -- my multiple wives, but i'm going to invite the other woman. i'm going to invite the woman

that my opponent's husband had an affair with to the debate. what kind of child does that take? you know, that is not presidential. that's barely adult. >> yeah. it is interesting, that is for sure. always love talking but. we'll bring you back in the next hour for more. all right. in our next hour, i'll also talk to a panel of millenials to find out if hillary clinton will be able to pull a big win with young voters, and director rob reiner joins me to tell us why he's supporting the former secretary of state. but, first, we are one day away from the first presidential debate. we will have a preview after the break. ♪ ♪ take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive.

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evening. i love that hofstra has my show colors. that's amazing. i will be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern with two hours, two of debate preview coverage. around here we like to call that "p.m. joy" and tune in to msnbc for all-day coverage of the first presidential debate tomorrow live from right here hat hofstra university beginning at 9:00 a.m. eastern. be sure to watch the debate moderated by our very own lester holt monday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern followed by late night coverage with our post-debate team on msnbc. up next, do you mind if i call you joe? i love my shop,

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. >> can i call you joe? >> all you've got to go down with union street with me in wilmington and go to katie's restaurant or walk into home depot with me where i spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the

economic and foreign policy this administration has made them better off in the last eight years. >> say it ain't so, joe, there you go again, going backwards, prefaced your whole question with the bush administration and let's tell americans what we plan to do for them in the future. >> ah, memories. remember that debate? jid joe biden and sarah palin back in 2008. one of the most watched television and joining me now are my guests, from moveon.org and sarah, starting with you, on that question raised by that clip. debating a woman. what are the complexities involved in it and what are the perils involved in it for donald trump? >> well, there's no question the clinton camp if they can see any opening to do it will cry sexism as they have in the past. you saw that in the rick lazio

debate, her first debate as a candidate when he, you know, pointed at her and they said that that was sexist, so i do think the trump camp has to at least be prepared for that inevitability. i think the clinton campaign would be making a huge mistake doing that where it's not warranted. she needs to pick up independent voters, though she's not doing well with her base, may help somewhat especially with the women not getting her yet. >> with the lazio situation, it was not so much people said that it was -- that the clinton camp said it was, it was perceived as being overbearing. is that the risk that something he's done is perceived by the viewers as being overbearing? >> oh, i mean i disagree a little on the ladsio debate. the clinton campaign sent out surrogates on that and the media fed into it and, you know, whether it was or wasn't i think the trump camp will see enormous pushback from the clinton surrogates because that's what they want the message coming out of this.

want it to be about trump. not doing as well with obama voters, the coalition she put together. she's got to get that together if she wants to win this thing. >> so let's -- oh, yeah. you know, let me just ask you one more quick question before i come back to the table and corrine. the trump moment with carly fiorina, the look at the face moment, another instance where debating a woman can be difficult. talk a little bit about how that situation might reflect itself tomorrow. does donald trump have any ssex said about hillary clinton? >> certainly learned not to say about carly fiorina's looks from that point forward. carly fiorina is not to be messed with on a debate stage. i'm not sure that hillary clinton quite has the grasp of her surroundings the way that carly fiorina has shown to in debates, but we'll see what donald trump learned from that. i think he'd be better off making this about the substance of hillary clinton's

evasiveness, the trustworthiness problems that voters have with her. the last poll showed him up on the economy, on terrorism. push that back on the clinton campaign and less on the needily stuff. >> okay. let me get corrine in here. let's talk about on the other side. saw joe biden on the other side of the table, somebody who is seen as a wacky sort of character and he can be serious as well. he's somebody that can have two sides. difficulties of debating someone who is unpredictable? >> here's the thing. i think hillary clinton has the advantage in the sense that she's done numerous one-on-ones whereas donald trump hasn't done any. had 16 people, able to hide behind the 16 people and he won't have that this time around. there won't be a teleprompter for him, right, and this is a 90-minute debate where there's no breaks, like i said no, teleprompter. can we had stand that, withstand that, and so it will be -- remain to be seen. she has to do three things, i believe. need to show off her policy chops, right.

needs to play a fact-checker because he's going lie. we've known that. it's been proven by politifact and other fact-checking organizations and thirdly she has to work on his trustworthiness and if she's able to do those three things for her. >> as a woman debating, does she have to deploy charm? i hate to even have to ask that. >> they keep saying that. >> does she need to find a way to deploy some things more than just facts and figures? >> look, she has to be personable, absolutely. they both do, not just hillary clinton and that's the thing that you hear a lot about. lazio, with the lazio debate, wanted to touch back on that. look, debates are visual, right? when he got up and walked over to her, he looked like -- it looked very sexist, looked really bad, look like a bully and that's the thing to remember. a lot of visual context here that needs to be remembered and the one-liners, the visual aspect and the one-liners. >> as somebody who has worked on the campaign side, what's more important, the punditry after or

the candidates? >> voters will have one metric, who is qualified to be the commander in chief so they are going to listen to what these two candidates are going to say and that's the most important thing. punditry and spin room are absolutely important. millions of people who have not been paying attention will not -- will be paying attention to. >> what have they been paying attention to? karine will be back in the next hour. thanks, sarah. >> can hillary clinton make more headway with theoutful? i'll ask an all-millenial panel as we continue our live debate coverage live from hofstra university. don't go away. man, my feet are killin' me.

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i think that people deserve to know, are you down with tpp? >> i'm not down with tpp. >> no, you're supposed to say, yeah, you know me, like the hip-hop group. >> don't tell me what to say. >> fine, lose. do you wonder what your opponent might be wearing? i -- >> i assume he'll wear, you know, that red power tie. >> or maybe like a white power tie. >> that's even more appropriate. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." i'm joy reid. we're here at hofstra university where the first presidential debate takes tomorrow night. hillary clinton is pulling out all the stops and young voters do favor her according to a new poll out today. 51% of likely voters under 40 say that they would pick clinton over trump. that 18 to 39-year-old age group isen expansive than a group

labeled himmial but when we look at a gypiac poll of millenial voters under age 35 her support sinks to 31%. gary johnson, a libertarian candidate who famously asked what is aleppo and has a weird habit of sticking out his tongue when he does interviews comes in second at 29%. those numbers might seem pretty good for clinton until we consider how -- until we consider how much support her democratic rival got from millenials in the primary. bernie sanders won states like wisconsin because 82% of voters under 30 fell for the bern or felt the bern and in west virginia 70% were with him. even in ohio where clinton won decisively 81% of millenials still chose bernie and they were also instrumental in president obama's election victory. president obama won with 66% of those under 30 in 2008 and 60%

in 2012. joining me now to discuss donovan ramsey, editor at conflict.com and jesse saunders, the president of democrats at off tra -- young democrats at off tra university and nathaniel erin the president of hofstra college americans and the co-founder of campaign zero. thank you guys for being patient. let's talk about the polls for just a secretary. to brittany on this first, early on in at least the primaries both bernie sanders and hillary clinton had some confrontations with black lives matter but he wound up with stronger millenial support. let's take a look at the latest polling, and this is quinnipiac. donald trump's favorability among millenials, among those 18 to 34 years old, strongly unfavorable, 60%, somewhat unfavorable and 8% and 68 total and strongly favorable only 9. let's go over to hillary clinton, september 8th through the 13th. hillary clinton strongly favorable 14%, not that much better. her strongly unfavorables 48%,

better than trump but not great. why do you suppose that is? >> i think there are a lot of reasons. you know, this generation, especially young folks of color having critical conversations about systemic issues so what we see is folks are frustrated with the entire system and that is why confrontations have happened at all levels. you know, i personally have already stated i plan to vote for hillary clinton, and i also plan to continue to push her administration when she's in office because that's what democracy, is but there are lots of young people, especially young people of of color who are considering not voting at all and what we need to ensure that the campaign and the party and our communities are doing are really approaching us with respect and a listening ear and not couldn't session. and one of the things that happened during the democratic primaries a re-litigation of the '90s for young voters essentially little kids or not even around, right, during that time, but their perception of the clintons was really fused in that sanders versus clinton

campaign. is hillary clinton sort of at a disadvantage now in terms of getting those voters to be excited for voting for her because of their new perceptions of who she was then? >> i think hillary is really at a disadvantage when it comes to reaching young millenials of color who may not have been there for the big wins of the '90s but i don't think it's something that's insurmountable so i think, you know, she's make strong inroads with black lives matter activists, with berns, of course, and when it comes to getting past some of the histories that she has, she really has to lift up some of the policies that bernie sanders put forward. you know, he wanted to have a department within the doj that would investigate police shootings, that she has to put forth some of the economic policies that mean so much to millenials in order to reach out and really seal their vote. >> and when i hear what donovan is saying, i think back to the fact that hillary clinton, while we were covering what was happening in baltimore, was giving her first major speech on issues of criminal justice reform. she's done several of these

speeches where she's talked about what she wants to do in that area. why does it seem that that message has not really gotten through to the young voters that she really needs to be excited about voting for her in november? >> i think what you're going to see you'll continue to see her talking about these plans and policy goals that she, a and i think, that you know, we're not under no assumptions that this is an inevitable candidacy. it's unprecedented. never had a woman in this position but also you have somebody who is acknowledging the mistakes made from the past and unforeseen circumstances, the first policy speech she gave was about ending the era of mass incarceration, so you see her talking about criminal justice reform. you see her talking about in her first budget putting $1 billion towards implicit bias training for police departments and increasing the level of trust and repairing the bond of trust between communities of color and police departments. you see her acknowledging that these issues actually need to be tackled, and as brittany said

mainlyials of color are looking towards the future but also who is going to be on the other side of that table after this election to listen to you and to listen to your concerns, and hillary clinton has promised that she wants to be held accountable for the things that she's promising and on the other side of the table she will have an open ear to address those concerns. >> well, i want to bring in jesse and nathaniel who are here at hofstra university, the college democrats, the college republicans. i'm going to start with you on this, jesse, and one thing that surprised me when i talk to young women about this campaign during the primary, when we were traveling and following them around was the lack of -- it not being particularly exciting for young won i spoke with having a first woman president, is that not compelling? >> it took a while for it to hit me. i don't think it really sunk in that there's a possibility that i will be here to see the first

female president elected, and -- and now that you're looking at college students, you're starting to see that more, the general election and she's the secured nominee there's more excitement about that so i think that's a growing thing but i don't think it's hurting her. i think it's only a plus to her because her gender isn't something that she's leaning back on with millenial voters. >> are you seeing interest in this election on campus among democrats? >> yeah, would i say for sure. there's a lot of interest. there was a lot of should i vote third party because bernie is not in or should i do this, it's opened up a lot of conversation but i see as the election goes on longer, a lot of people supporting hillary on company? >> nathaniel you've got the toughest job out there in america trying to get young voters to support donald trump. it's difficult because the republican party nominee is as unpopular as any nominee has been in the history of polling, and he's singularly unpopular with young people. what is that kind of a challenge for you, and are you a supporter

of donald trump? >> i'm personally not but my club does support donald trump. the issue with republican young voters especially in the state of new york, seeing it right now, with the electoral college we feel like their vote doesn't matter. it's not about who wins at end of the day, it's about doing your civic duty and going out there and investigate, that's how -- >> is it difficult for you who said you're not a supporter of donald trump to see him as the head of your party. do you think it's hurting your party to grow long term? >> yes, it does. if he wins this election he'll change the dresks our party. if he loses by a bit he can blame the establishment saying they different support him enough. he has to lieutenants by a lot. >> the question of donald trump and sort of fear of a trump presidency, right, is kind of floated out there as a way to encourage particularly young voters to be afraid and go ahead and vote. does that work? when people are out marching, brittany, in terms of black lives matter activism, young people focused on things like

police brutality, does the idea of a donald trump presidency scare them and encourage them to want to vote? >> i think it does for plenty of people. at the end. day i personally don't want to live to see that be our reality. i believe he's intrabctable and the kind of rhetoric we've seen he's dangerous. people are also looking for something to vote for. it's not just about excitement, right. it's also about guarantees and promises that our voices will be important after election day, and that it won't be about pandering but that it will really be about inclusive -- the kind of inclusive democracy that will create greater equity for people of color t.works to an extent, but as this election continues we need to make sure that we're focusing on what we're giving to people to vote for. >> i mean, i'll ask you the same question, donovan, because, you know, it's one thing to say that a donald trump presidency would be horrible, nationwide stop and frisk, some of things he's proposed but is that enough to

motivate young voters who typically don't come into the process in huge numbers other than when barack obama was on the ballot? is fehr enough? >> you know, i don't think it is. i mean, and you can see that from the polling from the time that trump became the nominee and to now when it comes to young voters. clinton hasn't picked up steam with young voters since then. young people who supported barack obama in such huge numbers still want hope and change. that we have an economic and social situation right now that is not sustainable, right, so people that enter the the economy during one of the worst periods in recent history, having a hard time finding jobs, having a hard time getting loans, who may not own homes for generations don't want to hear i'm not donald trump. they want to hear it articulated for how we might have a better future than what our parents did. >> i'll ask you, jesse and nathaniel, is that what you're hearing, whether it's republican leaning or democratic leaning peers is what they -- you know, is fear a motivator for young voters? >> i think it is to an extent,

but if there's one thing mentalials don't like it's being told what to do because it's better for them. >> well, that's every generation of kids, i think. >> because they have this i feel we often get the oh, you're entitled to something, so people are being told you should do this because it's like better for other people and i think is -- really in the end fear has never been a great motivator for american voters even though it necessarily should be. >> articulating some of the challenges getting young motivators at all in this election? >> i see a lot of fear. >> both candidates are use fear as a weapon to get young people to vote or people to vote in general. donald trump is looking at hillary clinton's record saying do we want that as a president and hillary clinton is just -- doesn't really need to change what donald trump says. >> right. >> it's tough, and the challenge for the campaign, of course, is to take all of this and figure out a strategy, affirmatively -- to have people affirmatively

want to vote and not vote against donald trump and be motivated and what we're seeing is some softness in these numbers for hillary clinton that could impact turnout. >> well, i think that that's true but i also think that we're working hard to really earn every vote, under no impressions that we're just going to get guaranteed every vote just because people don't like donald trump. we need to make a case for why you should vote for hillary clinton. that is because she gets come together with bernie sanders on an improved college plan, a debt-free college plan and wants to increase access to job opportunities and apprenticeship for people not in college. those are the types of things we've been talking about all across the country. we have 280 chapters on college campuses around the country where people are coming together and we have black girl magic and meetups all over the country where black girls can come together about how issues can work for them and how hillary clinton can try to tackle some of those problems and provide solutions and this all comes down to policy when you're making an affirmative case for why you should vote for hillary

clinton because i think tomorrow night you can see at the debate hillary clinton lay out a vision for where she wants to take the country and it's not really just about rejecting donald trump, it's also about why you should be for hillary clinton and like i said and as brittany said so eloquently earlier, a lot of this comes down to the most pressing issues like criminal justice reform and closing private prisons and repealing the hyde amendnent you're a low-income woman and woman of color. so many of these issues are so important to young people, millenials like myself and i think you'll hear a lot of that coming from hillary clinton tomorrow night. >> really quickly, running out of time. want to do a quick lightning round. one question you want to hear tomorrow night? >> how the candidates will commit to infusing voices of young people and people of color in their future administration. >> donovan? >> i certainly want to hear something about policing and mass incarceration brought up. i think those are things that

have been really marginalized in previous debates and want to hear their differences. >> jesse? >> i want to hear about a compact education strategy, not just for make college debt-free but for power education system set up from k-12. >> nathaniel? >> as both candidates are against tpp, the alternatives that both candidates are providing to tpp. the question would be what is your alternative to the tpp? >> i think that you've just reiterate that had you would like to hear them ask are you down with tpp? i think you've buttoned up our segment expertly. our hired. >> thank you very much. up next, director rob reiner joins me to talk about donald trump, archie bunker and how celebrities are speaking up for hillary clinton. stay with us. katy kat collection. new make up i designed for covergirl. well, really for you! discover my new mascara katy kat eye ugh! it's not a regular cat eye no offense pedro it's the all day, 360 cat eye. ten times volume

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you only get this very many people together. one that truly matters for all of us. >> a disease. >> ecological crisis. >> or a racist abusive coward who can permanently damage the fabric of our society. >> do the math. do we really want to give nuclear weapons to a man whose signature moving is firing. >> firing things. >> some of hollywood's biggest stars are taking leading roles in this presidential campaign and i'm joined by one of them. acclaimed director rob reiner. great to talk to you. thanks very much for being here. >> thanks for having me, joy. >> let's jump right into this question of celebrities and politics. you have a lot of people who get really angry when their favorite, you know, celebrity, favorite takes a side in politics. do you feel there's real

influence and if not why does hollywood get so involved? >> i don't know if there's real influence or not? i mean, we're just people and our responsible no more valid than anyone else's. in my case i've been in involvement. i've had a job in government for years, and i've been involved with public policy and -- and, you know, moving certain policy forward and i've been doing that for a lot of my life so i'm kind of separate and apart from a lot of people in hollywood and, you know, to me, celebrities are just people that can draw attention to an issue and ultimately you have to be able to drill down and be able to talk about the issue in a substantive way, and if you can't it really doesn't help, i don't think, one way or the other. >> one of the ways in which hollywood or the entertainment industry dove tails politics is some issues it's so spot on, you can capture a cultural moment that is really clear and "all in the family" is one of those

moments, that sentiment among a certain group of white voters about the world that they lived in and the way it was changing. it feels like that's being reflected now. i have to play you this incredible mash-up of archie bunker sound and donald trump. take a listen. >> i am so sick of washington and all its works and all them mixes down there and i'm so sick and tired of watching this incompetent politicians that are all talk and no action. >> the country is going straight into the dumper. >> our country is in serious trouble. >> send me your poor and your deadbeats and all of them, they come swarming in like ants. >> the u.s. has become a dumping ground. >> rob, what does it say to you that that sentiment is still so strong that you can almost produce without the lovability an archie bunker presidential candidate. >> >> what's interesting is those issues which were very hot

and on the front burner in, you know, in the '60s and '70s, that all of a sudden, you know, they got submerged after a while hand that you have this guy donald trump who comes along and essentially resurrects all of this and gives a bullhorn to this racist idea and i believe what we've done and what we've seen, is you know, the civil war -- the last throes of the civil war. we're fighting the last battles, and donald trump is leading the way for white nationalism. and it's sad because people are hanging ton this idea of, you know, a white america and immigrant free america and -- and it's scary and sad but it's the last battle and i believe we will win it. >> to people who are saying, you know what, i hear people saying that and claiming that the donald trump phenomenon has something to do with race and i as a voter don't believe that at all. i believe he can make the

economy better. what would be the argument to the soft trump voters who would be uncomfortable with some aspect of his campaign and still prefer him because he's the republican and he'll give tax cuts so what is the worst case scenario of a donald trump presidency? >> the worst case scenario is the supreme court and people don't talk about it because it's not a sexy issue. but if he has one, two, three appointments, that could change the direction of this country in a scary way for 30, 40 years and we're talking about civil rights. we're talking about voting rights, women's rights. all of these things could be affected by the supreme court in a profound way and so that's what i would say to people and, i mean, as far as the economy is concerned, what makes you think he is going to have a better handle on the economy? been a complete and utter br

failure as a businessman. he's had six bankruptcies and has been a failure. he uses, as he proudly says, i use other people's money to pay for things and in many cases he uses other people's money to buy off elected officials who are threatening to expose his, you know, fraudulent activities like trump university, so i would say to him what gives you this sense that he is going to be bert for the economy, especially since democrats historically have been better for the economy. you hear that old phrase. if you want to live like a republican, vote democrat, so i don't see where he -- and certainly laid no plans out for how he would fix the economy and by the way, it's moving in the right direction. >> and, you know, one. things that i do find interesting that every election cycle you have a certain percentage of hollywood, of, you know, the world out there in l.a. that are republican that come out for the nominee.

romney had them and mccain had them. it's been really quiet on the republican side of hollywood for donald trump. give us the benefit of maybe your inside knowledge here. is there a sense among people who are even conservative in hollywood that he's a bridge too far? >> you know, i think it's a hard thing for people to support a racism and people in hollywood, even if they are republican, they are humanitarians. they do care about their fellow -- their fellow citizens and the idea of supporting somebody who is racist and who is spouting these racist ideas is way beyond a bridge too far. >> we've been having fun, rob, asking folks what question they want to ask donald trump at the debate tomorrow night. >> i would ask him that if in fact he had a secret plan to

defeat isis why didn't he tell us that and maybe we could have avoided san bernardino and the -- and the pulse nightclub and -- and turkey and paris. if you have a plan you basically should have come forward with it because a lot of lives were lost. where was that secret plan? >> yeah. an excellent question. hope flay will come up at the debate tomorrow night. rob, we're going to keep you here. you're coming back later in the program. love talking to you. thank you, sir. you'll be back soon and up next senator elizabeth warren goes in on donald trump from his ties to russia to his refusal to release his tax returns. do you not want to miss that. th, th, every business is different. but every one of those businesses will need legal help as they age and grow. whether it be help starting your business, vendor contracts or employment agreements. legalzoom's network of attorneys can help you every step of the way so you can focus on what you do. we'll handle the legal stuff

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there's some evidence of that, but maybe it's that he doesn't want it to come out what his foreign business dealings are. we know right now that some of donald trump's business dealings have been financed by russian oligarchs who are good friends of vladimir putin. >> senator elizabeth warren minced no words while stumping for hillary clinton in new hampshire on saturday. the popular progressive democrat hammered donald trump on his tax returns and allegations that his campaign might be a little too cozy with the kremlin. and she's by no means alone in her tax return critique these days. aside from the myriad of news out let's asking why trump hasn't complied with the simple standard campaign custom that's been upheld for 40 years. even his own supporters has joined team tax return and asked their candidates to just show them the money and, of course, the longer voters go without information as vital as the republican nominee's tax returns and the longer journalists have

to keep batting down excuse after excuse or withholding his return from the public, the more people are left to ask questions, like senator warren inquired on saturday. >> it donald trump really prepared to take his name off all of his business dealings, totally separate himself from his business and put the interest. united states of america first because donald trump has demonstrated time after time after time the person donald trump puts first is donald trump. >> well, we shall see if we get any answers in tomorrow night's debate. up next, just pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. is it a professor who never stops being a student? is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work

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>> gennifer flowers will not be attending the debate tomorrow night, and donald trump was -- was using the tweet yesterday to really mock an effort by hillary clinton and her campaign to really distract attention from where the american people will be focused tomorrow night. >> less than 24 hours after trump offered a debate invitation to gennifer flowers, his surrogates walked it back saying the campaign has not and will not invite her. this all started when dallas mavericks owner and expert trump troll mark cuban tweeted about his front row seat at tomorrow night's debate and trump in return threatened to reserve a front row seat for gennifer flowers, a former tv personality who allegedly had an affair with former president bill clinton in the 1980s and the allegation nearly took down clinton's 1992 presidential debate. trump tweeted if dopey mark cuban of failed benefactor fame wants to sit in the front row,

perhaps i will put gennifer flowers right alongside of him, exclamation point. flowers responded said you know i'm in your corner and will definitely be at the debate. smooch emoji. back with me is activist rob reiner and hugh hewitt, host of "the hugh hewitt show" and i have to ask you about the gennifer flowers invitation and the campaign is knocking it down but what does it say about donald trump, that he's so easily triggered just by the idea of mark cuban sitting in the front row that he has to go there? how does that strike you, hugh hewitt? >> didn't strike me as a good idea. donald trump is famously a counterpuncher. that count punch was below the belt and i'm glad to see that it was not serious and governor pence, the presidential nomination said this morning, that's not hafnlgt i do think there are some effective people and campaigns do put people in audiences to convey messages. gennifer flowers isn't one of them.

>> hugh, just to stay with that for a moment and glad to hear you say that. does it worry you as somebody supporting donald trump for president that he's there easily triggered, just by the idea of someone sitting in front of him who has trolled him in the mast, a billionaire who may look down on him, doesn't that worry you about his compartment as president? >> clearly secretary clinton is favored going into this debate tomorrow dramatically because of reasons like that, but i just got done saying on "meet the press," joy, americans are going to watch this and the higher voter turnout, 75 hill million to 1 is hundred million voters and they will see two archetypes, hillary clinton is the toughest teacher in the school, maybe she bends over backwards for the smartest kids and donald trump is the loud but winning football coach who steps on toes. it writes itself. >> and i don't know who is going to win but never the two archetypes shall meet. the script writes itself. maybe rob can write that script. it's definitely a script though.

we'll watch. >> yeah. or an up scripted reality show. you know, rob, i'll ask you the same question because this is who donald trump is, right? there are certain things that if you talked to people like tony skwhaurts who wrote "the art of the deal" or others who have covered him for a while, this is a guy with a lot of insecurity around his wealth and he's very easily set off by people he thinks are looking down on him. there's a "frontline" piece that says he's running for president because he thinks people look down on him and he wants people to bow down at him. should people be concerned about the debate? >> people should be surprised by it. hugh, people think of this you as a smart republican and just when joy asks you doesn't it give you pause that somebody you're supporting would be that thin skinned, you didn't really answer that question and so you went on to something else.

the fact of the matter is i would love it if gennifer flowers were sitting there because that would be the rick lazio moment times a million. that would basically give the election to hillary clinton. it is -- it is such a poor thought out idea by donald trump and the idea that this man could be a president and this is his decision-making process is scary beyond belief, and i'm surprised at you, hugh, that you would be supportive and so many thoughtful republicans are saying, you know, this is -- as joy point out earlier, a bridge way too far. >> really. if i may -- i'll give you a chance to answer that. >> rob and i have been tv pals and supported his prop in 1990 and been on the local prop 10

and rob has done a few good things. this is not one of them. the real issue is the supreme court and whoever -- >> let me ask you a question. hugh, we'll do the supreme court. i think both care about this issue as lot because i do want to give you the question, the president's demeanor and xrtment, having a steady hand in a moment like that that could have meant nuclear war, you think about the decisions that presidents have to make that can mean life or death, having somebody in the white house who is erratic and who has to be -- has to have his phone taken away from him because he can't stop himself from tweeting an invitation to gennifer flowers, doesn't that worry you just in terms of his xrtment and demeanor, hugh hewitt? >> no, i'm much more worried about secretary clinton fleeing the state department at 1:00 a.m. often the much night of bengz and the nixonian approach she has for politics and i worked for richard nixon. this is an election not just about election but the 3,000

people who come with you when you are president and about the supreme court which we'll talk about. it's not even close for me, joy and rob. i'm voting for trump because a hillary clinton court and administration is hard left forever for the country. >> well, let me ask you this question, hugh, because donald trump has also said if iranian -- if iranian fleets make hand gestures, people in iranian fleets make hand gestures of the united states he would blow them how the of the water. that's what he who said. he said he would have an erratic foreign response in a northern crisis policy. >> the problem is iranians know what secretary clinton will do because they will all of her e-mails and on the one hand you -- >> no evidence that the iranians have hillary clinton's e-mails. >> there is expert testimony from mike morell on my show that any decent intelligence agency has all of her e-mails. it's expert testimony. >> we don't have evidence. >> the fbi looked at it. i don't want to go into a back

and forth on that, but the fbi did an extensive investigation of hillary clinton's e-mail servers and said express italy they could find no evidence -- >> they can't rule it out. >> right. >> but they -- let's not say that they have her e-mails because -- >> oh, but i have expert testimony. >> okay. whatever might morel said on your radio show i don't want us to be saying things that are not in evidence. >> it's true. it's true, joy. >> we want to go -- >> it is, it's true. >> you don't have evidence of that because someone says it on the radio show. >> expert testimony is evidence. >> that's not expert testimony on a radio show. i've done radio as well and appearance on radio is not expert testimony. it just isn't but the testimony under oath to the fbi, two different things and i want to go and let rob get a word in edge-wise because we were talking about the supreme court. rob, you made that very important issue when we spoke earlier. what would be your biggest concern giving donald trump decision-making ability? do you trust that this list that he gave out of people he would put on the court would be the list, or do you have some other

concern? >> well, i have concerns about anything that comes out of donald trump's mouth because i've never seen a person lie has much as this guy does. the word lie -- i've never seen it used more in a presidential campaign about a candidate and mainstream media and everybody use the word lie. i mean, you've seen lists and lists of it so i don't take anything that he says at face value and the thing that to me is -- is most interesting, you have -- i mean, hugh, again, an intelligent guy. it wasn't about you know what donald trump is, you know, it's all about what he doesn't like about hillary. it's an anti-hillary vote and i get people don't like hillary and all of that, but intelligent people do know that there is climate change, that there are certain realities in the world that we have to address and donald trump just doesn't want to address those things, so, yes, the supreme court is

important, and it's very important. it will be important for many years, but i have no idea what donald trump. he says these are the people he would nominate which scares me because some of them would take people's rights away, existing constitutional rights, would take them away, but -- but i have no idea what he's going to -- who he's going to put up. he -- he lies about everything. he lies about things in the same sentence. he'll say something at the beginning of a sentence and then say the exact opposite at the end of a sentence so i have no idea, you know, how to judge him or take him at his word. he doesn't have a word. >> yeah. i wish we had more time. we're actually out of time. can you guys both come back and can we reinvite you back and love to have you back on again. >> sure. >> thanks very much. hugh is going to come back a little bit later in the show. in our next hour, who has the most to lose in tomorrow night's debate.

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we are counting down to tomorrow's historic presidential face-off with all-day coverage right here hon msnbc. i'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern tonight with two hours of debate preview coverage. my guests will include someone who knows firsthand what it is like to moderate a hoy-stakes presidential debate. journalist carol simpson. very excited about that. but up next our headlines of the week. and i wouldn't want to mess with that. but when (my) back pain got bad, i couldn't sleep. i had trouble getting there on time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last into the morning. ♪ look up at a new day... hey guys!

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eight points. after another week, it will be a dead heat. >> that's actually the big get that republicans have been trying to get for quite some time. you know what that means. we have triggered our friend, the white whale. where is our white whale? there it is. hugh hewitt triggered the whale. you get a door prize. >> i want one of the whales. >> republicans have not won it since 1988. reagan won it twice. george h.w. bush won it. that's the headline of the week, that it will -- there you can see the polls. hugh predicting that will get close closer. do you think trump can win pennsylvania? >> i don't think so. if that happens. if the polls get closer and he takes consistent leads in some of the battleground states, i wouldn't be surprised if a prominent republican -- or republicans start to endorse hillary clinton. looking admit romney, george w.

bush. i think because they want to save the republican party, that they will fall on the sword just so that there is not a trump presidency. >> is that your headline? >> that is my headline. >> look at that. perfectly previewed. you think major republicans will? >> i think so. they are thinking about the future of the republican party. if i were them, that's what i would think about. >> my question is how much influence they would have. the bushes, are they influential? >> i think it's a symbolic thing. i think that is important. when you have the stallworth of the republican party saying we're not going to get behind our republican nominee. that sends a message. >> before i go to kurt, have i to a -- i have to ask you, hugh, do you think that influences voters? >> mitt romney, if he declared, would. george w. bush is not going to it. if she's right, that's a killer. because governor romney would deliver utah to secretary clinton. >> the interesting thing is the rumor that bill weld might be

wavering if he thinks they might pull too much from clinton to help trump w. let us go to kurt. what's the big headline of next week? >> unfortunately, it's going to be trump exceeded expectations, hillary came below expectations, something about expectations. which i think is the worst thing that our profession does. what expectations are is what we're all saying among ourselves. and the reality should be, you know, who did the better job. you don't get to come in first in the olympic trials because even though you came in second. i hope that if we are spending a lot of time talking about who exceeded expectations or didn't meet expectations or had the best one liner or who coughed or sneezed, i hope that voters will start turning off their tv and start reading the newspapers,

because we're not delivering anything of any use. >> you know, i am going to do something unprecedented in the history -- i'm going to deliver a reverse mclaughlin and say you are all correct. you are all correct. i think the polls are going to get tighter in pennsylvania. i think you will see major republicans begin to shift sides as the race gets tighter. i think they will declare donald trump did better than expectations unless he falls, trips, dools or punches hillary clinton on the stage. i think that is the way that we roll, unfortunately. that's the way the media works. thank you very much. thank you all for being here. really appreciate you guys. we will see you again. i will be back at 5:00 p.m. with more, two hours of pre-debate coverage. up next, we will talk to jill stein about her plans to show up at the debate here.

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future generations could lose up to $10,000 a year. we're working hard, what about you? hey candidates, do your jobs. keep social security strong. great to be you you this morning. live on the campus of hofstra. on the eve of the event, a new poll shows a dead heat. as many as 100 million are expected to watch the debate. it airs mopp s monday 9:00 p.m msnbc. i will talk to jill stein and hugh hewitt on whether he thinks moderators should dol