this week, the great thes pooen rory o'malley plays king george in "hamilton" gives a review on how hillary clinton and donald trump performed in the first presidential debate. >> rory o'malley is great. >> a little pro-clinton, maybe. >> but he is really good. >> i'll be back tomorrow, same bad time, same bad channel. see you tomorrow. sayonara. >> "hardball" with chris matthews is next. >> he can't get over pinpoint let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. well, there's a well-known rule in politics, when you're in a hole, stop digging. one guy doesn't seem to know this well-known rule. his name is donald trump. he can't stop saying that he won a debate that voters by two to one give to his opponent. he can't stop talking about a former beauty pageant winner.

can't stop acting like baghdad bob, remember him, the iraqi who kept said he was winning the war against the u.s. invaders. and saying that north korea won the olympics. well, because he keeps going over it and over it, trump has trapped himself in a political twilight zone, where he blames everyone he can, anyone he can think of, as responsible for monday night, a night he claims desperately to have been the winner. well, if he won, you have to ask, why did he look for so many people to blame? as i said, while trump has been spinning his performances of victory, an online poll shows that 52% of hillary clinton won the first debate, 26% say neither one, and down in third place, 21% say that trump was the victor. now trump is dismissing the debate as a rigged deal. here's what he said this afternoon. >> during the debate the other night, she was saying, oh, no, she never said that. she said it, i mean, she said it. and then i had to put up -- then i had to put up with the anchor

and fight the anchor all the time, on everything i said. what a rigged deal. >> so it's lester holt's fault, now. boy, he's blaming everybody. this comes after trump confidants this week have been airing their grievances about the candidate's lack of discipline. on trump's debate prep with former fox news chairman roger ailes, "the new york times" reports that, quo, mr. trump found it hard to focus during those meetings that left mr. ailes discussing his own problems as well as recounting political war stories. well, rudy giuliani didn't have anymore luck once he took over for ailes, quote, with mr. trump receiving so much conflicting advice in those sessions, he absorbed little of it. meanwhile, trump's feud with former miss universe, alicia machado, has now entered its third day, with trump doubling down on his assertions about alicia machado's weight. last night on fox, trump defended his behavior and suggested he is the victim, because he says he saved machado's job. take a listen. >> she did not do well.

she had a lot of difficulties. and, you know, they wanted to fire her. i had nothing to do with this person, but they wanted to fire her. i saved her job, because i said, that's going to be ruinous. and i've done that with a number of the young ladies, where i saved their job. and you know what happened? look what i get out of it? i get nothing. i saved her job because they wanted to fire her for putting on so much weight. and it is a beauty contest, you know, say what you want, bill, they know what they're getting into. it's a beauty contest. and i said, don't do that. let her try and lose the weight. can you imagine i end up in a position like this? so that's the way it is. >> well, now nbc news has obtained an internal trump campaign memo that advises surrogates out there on how to respond to questions about the beauty contest winner, alicia machado. joining me right now is nbc's katy tur, kathleen parker, opinion writer for "the washington post," as well. katy, give me a sense, just, you

know everything about this fight. i'm trying to keep up with it. trump, i'll start with my role. when you're in a hole, stop digging. why does he keep talking about a beauty contestant, what, 20 years ago. why does he keep wrapping himself in this twilight zone existence that he can't win. there's no way he can win this argument. there's no way that people are going to change their minds. he looks like the bad guy in this incident. why doesn't he let it go? >> it's the same thing he did with judge curiel, when he was talking about how he wasn't fair and he was biassed and he shouldn't be presiding over the trump university case. it's the same thing he did with the gold star families, and khizr khan. now he's doing it with machado. he doesn't have the ability to let things go when he needs to let them go. he wants to defend himself. and oftentimes, when he does that, he digs himself into a deeper hole, as we're seeing with machado. i'm not sure how women will react, those suburban women that he is trying to get, when he says that he was actually protecting this woman, because she got too big. and for that matter, the president of the miss universe pageant told "the washington

post" at the time in 1997, the idea she was going to be decrowned or lose her job was bogus. that wasn't happening. this was already debunked 20 years ago. donald trump is continuing his narrative, and so is his campaign. kellyanne conway saying that this morning on "the view." i'm not sure why the campaign is going forward with it. they've even released this internal -- not released, we've obtained this internal memo that says wherever surrogates are asked about machado, they should instead pivot to hillary clinton, saying that she is trying to present herself as some sort of feminist champion, and that is a joke and encouraging those surrogates to say that hillary clinton attacked monica lewinsky and jennifer flowers and paula jones. they are enabling this story to live longer than it should. conservative talk radio is already getting upset about this, including an iowa talk radio shows, steve deace, saying that donald trump doesn't have the ability to let go and that he keeps digging himself into a

hole. as you said, chris, when you're digging a hole, stop digging. >> yeah, the question i have to ask is a very political one. it is not a moral one. in this sense, baghdad bob, we laugh about him, because he was the iraqi official who kept saying they're winning a war they're clearly losing. kim i don't thijong-un is sayin the olympics. you lose credibility when you say things are that they clearly aren't. he's going to be the bad guy, the heavy in this case, and that's the way it's going to be. >> reporter: but let me counter -- let me give you a counter vision on that. what donald trump has been doing this sort of thing, since this campaign started. he often talks about crowd sizes being much larger than they actually are. he did it again today, saying there are thousands of people inside this venue, when the place only holds about 1,200, maybe 1,800 people, and there were only a little bit more than a thousand people here.

he said there were 3,000 people waiting outside, when there was not anyone waiting outside. he has been presenting things that aren't true as fact, now, for quite a while. it hasn't done anything to crack his credibility, with his base of supporters. that is why he won the primaries. what he has not realized, and that's because the polls are very tight, it's potentially going to hurt him in the general election. we'll have to see how it plays out. this has been such a topsy-turvy campaign, but the polls are so close. and chris, if there's one thing that i've learned on this campaign l, it's that donald trump pays attention to the polls, more than he pays attention to anything else. more than he pays attention to his advisers or his kids. if he stays close in the polls, he's not going to see a reason to change. if he drops down, then we're going to see more debate prep. then we might see him stray or get away from these negative topics. this thing is particularly bad, because there is so much past, you know, so many past comments from trump out there, that are

negative towards women. there's countless howard stern interviews, where he talks about women, saying that, you know, it's hard to be a 10 if you're flat-chested. this enables his detractors to go out and dredge all of this stuff back up, present it, and say, donald trump is not a champion of women. >> he was in another business, it's clear. anyway, trump supporters have had to defend the candidate's behavior this week. this a speech to the log cabin republicans last night, newt gingrich told -- catch this who were. you're not supposed to gain 60 pounds during the year that you're miss universe. i don't think anybody gained 60 pounds. asked about trump's behavior on fox last night, kellyanne conway tried to refocus the debate on hillary clinton's negative ad campaign. here's kellyanne. >> yeah, i'm just wondering why she's spending tens of millions of dollars in negative ads and negative mail pieces and never putting together -- >> because she's killing him with women. and she sees an advantage there and she's trying to exploit it. and my question to you is whether he needs to come up with a better answer than telling

"fox & friends," well, she gained a bunch of weight when she won miss universe and she was a real problem. >> well, now we're conflating different things. what i would say to that is this. that he should speak to america's women based on the issues about which they care. >> well -- we'll talk about that right now. here's how conway, conway herself, kellyanne, defended trump's treatment of machado, the beauty contestant on "the view" today. >> in the past, he's called her an eating machine. i feel uncomfortable with it as a woman, but i'm curious allow you felt about those comments? >> well, i don't discuss people's weights and their looks. i'm sure on your twitter feeds right now, you have viewers discussing my looks and my intelligence. >> did you reprimand him for that and say, listen, why are you saying women are fat and why are you calling women fat pigs? >> yes, i did. >> what'd he say? >> that he gave that particular woman a second chance. she obviously has a troubled past that i won't get into. >> so what? >> well, hold on --

>> that has nothing to do with her being fat or skinny. >> this is going into a terrain where it's fairly clear, kathleen, that trump can't win. and poor kellyanne, who i've known forever, she now has to flack this. that's how you break your pick, when you go into a political argument on behalf of a candidate with an unwinnable argument, it undercuts you in all arguments. people say, if you're willing to defend that, we can't really rely on what you're telling us. >> yeah, i feel sorry for her. but look, the reason he is doing this and the reason he can't let go, this is a psychological question. >> which one? >> well, no, he is developmentally a child. that's why. he's like the child who falls down and stands up and says, i meant to do that. and he can't admit ever being wrong. he'll never apologize for saying something that was rude or crude. because in his mind, he's never wrong. you know -- >> why can't he pull back -- >> it's a problem. he's immature. >> can he pull back and say, it's a beauty contest, i don't set the rules, it's based on

appearance, there's this prejudice towards thin, it's been going on for a while. i'm there doing a job, or should he just say, you know, i wasn't at my best that time. i should have been much more compassionate and empathetic and stop being such a bad guy pip mean, how do you step back from these situations, which are embarrassing in 2016, when your number one target are women, young women, in the suburbs, and you're trying to win them over, and they do worry about these issues of weight and everything, and are very sensitive points. they just are in our society. and he didn't create that. >> my reporting tells me that inside of trump's campaign, at trump tower, there's not a sense of stepping become. what they really are, are frustrated. they're frustrated in their minds. >> why are we talking about this crap? >> they think that trump left a weapon on the side, that he didn't go after the clintons, that he didn't pivot. i spoke to rudy giuliani a few minutes ago. and he says, there's so much trump could say about the clinton's past. >> why? >> that's been -- >> and of course, people like

newt gingrich are saying to the trump campaign, hey, maybe this is -- >> because they know -- look, i'm not into morality on this program. i'm talking about politics. three marriages, newt. three marriages, trump. three marriages, who's the other guy? giuliani. i don't hold that against them at all. but these are glass houses. why do they want to talk about this stuff? >> because there's nothing else to talk about. >> that's true. >> there's no policy to talk about, so let's talk about fat women, you know?! >> let's talk about clinton. the notion that there's a treasure-trove -- we all saw what happened. the republicans impeached bill clinton, right? they spent a whole summer going after him. okay, okay. they may have had an argument morally or whatever, they had a case. but look what happened. the republicans lost the congress. i mean, hillary clinton got elected to the senate, because she stood up to this. and she show eed guts and poise and everybody else looked like a crazy person. the evidence is, hillary knows how to handle this topic, right? >> right.

>> she knows how to spin it right back at the other side, and she'll look good. nobody's going to blame her for bill. >> she didn't actually do it. >> what do you think they think? what did they -- >> i've been speaking to them for the last few hours. and my sense is, because of the way that that machado question came at the end of the debate, they all walked out into the spin room frustrated that trump di't come back in a certain way. ever sin that night at hofstra, they've been talking to each other, when it comes to st. louis on october 9th, he's going to come back -- >> katy, my general notion is that trump is making the same mistake tuesday, wednesday, thursday, that he made on monday night, which is playing defense on personal history stuff. if he spends time -- what he should be talking about are jobs, the trade deals we've made, immigration, which is right -- illegal immigration, very unpopular, and stupid wars we've been fighting. go to your bases, dance with the ones that brung it, stop playing on the enemy's territory. your thoughts. what's he up to? >> that's what he's trying to do. and he tried to do that today

here in new hampshire. he tried to move on from that subject. and they came out with a whole, you know, a cache of new -- or a cache -- excuse me, a cache of new very catchy talking points, saying that hillary clinton is corrupt and follow the money and then talking about the five people that got immunity. that being said, there's an issue that we aren't really talking about here when it comes to trump and women. and that's not just his words about women. it's how his supporters behave and comport themselves at these rallies. you have many supporters wearing shirts that i couldn't repeat to you on camera, talking about hillary clinton and monica lewinsky. you have shirts that say, trump, that b. you have children calling hillary clinton a b-wo. a couple ofays ago in florida, i saw a shirt that said, i wish hillary married o.j. these are images that are out there, and it's not just the candidate, it's the campaign

supporters that are pushing this narrative, that he is not a champion of women. and when you're trying to target suburban women or women who don't think donald trump is stable, they don't think he's trustworthy to get into the white house, they don't think that his interests are their interests, they don't think that he's going to fight for them, or maybe they're weary of how he's treated women in the past. nothing he can do now is going to fix that if you still see supporters at rallies wearing shirts like this and using terminology and chants like the ones we hear. >> i'm just echoing in my head what he said to me back in march when i had my last interview with trump. he talked about, there has to be some sort of punishment about abortion. here he is talking about weight issues, eating disorders, things like that. are all on people's minds. it is a crying situation we have to face in our society, that people do -- mothers worry about it, their kids worry about it, mothers worry about their kids. too much of it. it's like the barbie doll debate.

why do we have a barbie doll with a certain notion of what a woman's supposed to look like. this is sensitive stuff, and when he starts talking about punishing a woman for gaining weight, he's right back into that problem area he got into when he talked about abortion, punishing people because of the situation they find themselves in because of eating situations, not even disorders, he just doesn't like the look. and this is a problem for him. talk to any human being, and most voters are women. somebody's got to tell that to him. most voters are women. okay, that's all i'm saying. katy tur, thank you. you got a hell of a story out there you're following. robert costa, another case of that. and kathleen, great columnist. coming up -- by the way, the number of newspapers you're in now, how many now? >> oh, gosh, i can't keep out. >> 500? i think you've got the record. i know that's the case. new evidence that hillary clinton's strong debate performance is paying off with voters. we've got the latest battleground state polling and it's good news for hillary clinton. that's why it's bad news for trump. plus, trump's team is taunting hillary clinton with bringing up bill clinton's infidelities.

now the clinton campaign is warning that that strategy will backfire. i think they're right. so how should hillary clinton respond if trump does go down that road in the next debate? and libertarian presidential candidate gary johnson told me last night that hillary clinton would pushing the nuclear button. i thought that was the big news last night. and by the way, he didn't come up with a single world leader he liked, even called it another aleppo moment for himself. how can clinton win back those younger voters that have supported gary johnson up until at least last night. finally, my election diary for tonight. september 29th, just 40 days left until election day. this is "hardball," the place for politics. the pursuit of healthier. it begins from the second we're born. because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcare by connecting every part of it.

so while the world keeps searching for healthier we're here to make healthier happen. [rock music playing] [music stops] [whistle] [rock music playing] [record scratch] announcer: don't let e. coli mosh with your food. an estimated 3,000 americans die from a foodborne illness each year. you can't see these microbes, but they might be there. so, always separate raw meat from vegetables. keep your family safe at foodsafety.gov. well, new battleground polls has hillary clinton bouncing back. check the "hardball" scoreboard. according to new polling from pp, clinton leads trump in colorado by 5 points.

the real clear politics average of polls has trump up by a hair, though. next -- but it's moving in one direction. next to florida where clinton is up three points, clinton, 48, trump 45. the last poll had trump up by one. so it's a four-point switch. in north carolina, clinton's lead is four points, trump, 49, trump, 45. the latest poll had trmp leading there by two. a six-point change. in pennsylvania, clinton is leading by five point now, 49-44. and the real clear politics average there had shrunk down to under two points. so that's changing. and in virginia, another state that i think will not go to trump, the new ppp poll has clinton up six, 49-43, and that's in line with the latest real clear politics average. by the way, i still think the firewall is pennsylvania and virginia, that will keep trump from winning. that's what i think now and have thought for a while. we'll be right back. ery tissue t her nose sore and red. so dad slayed the problem with puffs plus lotion, instead. puffs have pillowy softness for dakota's tender nose.

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welcome back to "hardball"ball. with donald trump on the defensive when it comes to his

treatment of women, his campaign has launched a risky offensive. going after hillary clinton for bill clinton's infidelities. in the internal trump campaign memo i mentioned earlier in the show, trump's campaign has directed surrogates to spin the conversation away from trump and towards secretary clinton. the memo shows that they are directed to say that, quote, hillary clinton and her husband actively worked to destroy bill clinton's accusers, and then hillary clinton bullieded and smeared women like paula jones, jennifer flowers, and monica lewinsky. just yesterday on msnbc, marsha blackburn, one of trump's most prominent surrogates, from tennessee, u.s. congresswoman, seemed to receive that memo. let's watch. >> i find it so interesting that there continues to be this conversation about what he has said. when you look at what she has done, jennifer flowers, paula jones, monica lewinsky, my goodness. >> while trump may not have mentioned bill clinton's infidelities and moneys debate, the campaign has a well-worn

discussion. however an number of u.s. senators who support trump don't see the benefits of this conversation. politico is reporting that gop senators who finally have grown more comfortable with trump warned in interviews wednesday that descending into bill clinton's sexual past is dangerous territory for the gop nominee, who has his own less-than-pristine history. that's the reporting. late this afternoon, hillary clinton addressed the new line of attack. here she is defending. >> he can run his campaign however he chooses. that's -- that's up to him. i'm going to keep talking about the stakes in election. i'm going to keep talking about my agenda. >> for more on this impossible new line of attack that seems to be in the strategy memo, at least, i'm joined by republican pollster and strategist ed goiz, and co-host of the pollsters, marji omara. i think you guys are great. i've known you for a lock time. if you're sitting in the back

room, with the towel over your shoulder, giving advice to the fighter, you've had a bad round, go for the inside. hit her on her husband's behavior. is this generally a topic that can turn this election? is it a game changer? >> it's hard to believe this makes sense in terms of what they're doing, except for one thing. and that is that if you look at hillary's negatives, it's driven by the politics of her past. if you look at his negatives, it's driven by his persona. this may be the only thing we can do to get someone else to deliver this message rather than him, because quite frankly, when he's out there leading this message, it's like a fighter with a glass jaw, leading with his chin. >> can you bring up, margie, hey, remember, bill clinton was impeached? don't get into the weeds. if that was such a successful presidency, why did he get impeached. >> we have data on how this might affect hillary clinton. a national poll in june asked a variety of things, how much does

this concern you about hillary clint clinton, they had seven or eight things. this was the least concerning thing tested. >> do you trust the people polled? or are people too squeamish, but in the end it affects how they vote. >> of course i trust the polls. >> don't people particularly say, i don't want to be somebody who carries about that stuff. oh, she cares about this stuff. do you want to be that person? >> look, there are some social desirability biases, but not on that. >> i love that phrase. social desirability biases. >> i think that is something people are honest about. >> so you think it's a bad route to take. >> look, democrats and republicans have come out over the last few days and said, you know, i don't think he should talk about this. even people within the trump camp says, i don't know if i would say that. >> newt gingrich, wise old owl that he is, is smart enough to know this is a vulnerability. you go after trump and i don't haven't want to make judgments, except that it's glass house stuff. right? >> and the real issue here is that both of these candidates

are flawed and are deeply baked in. >> baked in in regular talk means you can't get it out. >> all of these issues are baked into their negatives. >> speaking of news, we've got some news right now, breaking news. "usa today" has posted an editorial tomorrow urging voters not to vote for donald trump. they write, quote, in the 34-year history of "usa today," the editorial board has never taken sides in the presidential race. instead, we've expressed opinions about the issues and never presumed to tell our viewers which choice is best for them, because every presidential race is different. we re-visit our no-endorsement policy every four years and have never seen reason to alter our approach until now. this year the choice isn't between two capable major nominees who happen to have major ideological differences. this year, one of the candidates, donald trump, is by unanimous consensus of our editorial board, unfit for the

presidency. this is all around. john warner, the other day, the grandee in virginia, the detroit newspaper the other day, is this too early for them to just close this out? these papers are acting like the rest of the campaign doesn't matter, this guy is not fit? >> what more information do we need? obviously he's unfit. >> is that their view or your view? >> it's america's view. >> but also your view? >> it's also my view. >> from what we hear from on both these candidates is this is the best we can do. >> a little late. >> and vice versa. >> it's a little late to decide. >> but it also plays into the polling. we talk about polling all the time. polling assumes that both campaigns are equal on everything else. but when you look at money, you look at surrogates, look at endorsements, look at ground game, all those things have to be factored in, and it's not going to -- >> let me give you something to factor in. nobody on earth says they're for donald trump, who aren't going to show up and vote for them. while there are some people for

hillary clinton who wont show up to vote. and the trump people are real. >> that's not what we're seeing in our polling. we're seeing that they're both running in the high 70s, saying they're extremely likely to vote. the bigger problem is that 20% that dislike both candidates that are going with a third party candidates. and do they vote in this election or do they vote third party? after last night, they may be not voting. >> how do you vote for gary johnson when east unfamiliar with the world? >> now that you're done with him. >> i asked an open-air question, name a world leader that you respect. i went through every continent. as i said last night, this wasn't asking who your favorite nigerian poet is. i was asking, who in the world do you like? margie omara, ed goiz, thank you both. up next, gary johnson, the aforementioned, couldn't tell me a single world leader respected in his world college tour. i suspect he didn't have a lot of names on his list, period. not one. he also said that hillary clinton would push the nuclear button. he said, twice that she would

shoot, she would hit that button if there was a chance of nuclear war. that was much stronger to me. the "hardball" roundtable is here to talk about johnson and what the clinton campaign is doing to win back his supporters. and don't forget the vice presidential debate. well, it may be forgettable, but let's not forget it. tuesday, i'll be at the debate site down there in virginia for a full pre -- it's going to be fascinating to watch these two candidates for vice president, because we don't really know them. here's a chance to get to know them, one night of an hour and a half debate. a great opportunity for democracy. this is "hardball," the place for politics. think about healthcare? understanding your options? or, if you're getting the care you need? at aarpadvantages.com, you can find helpful information about healthcare options. leaving you more time to think about more important things. like not having to think about healthcare at all. surround yourself with healthy advantages at aarpadvantages.com/health.

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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. investigators are trying to figure out what caused a deadly plane crash at a busy new jersey train station this morning. the crash left one person dead and more than 100 injured. for the latest on the investigation and the evening commute, we are now joined by nbc's tammy leitner in hoboken, nnk. tammy? >> reporter: hey, melissa, investigators are out here right now and will likely be out here working throughout the evening and most likely for the next seven to ten days try to piece together what happened. this is what we do know. at 8:45 a.m., it was a busy morning, a commuter train came barreling through here, and it plowed through a barrier that was meant to stop it. on impact, passengers in the train were thrown. the train actually popped up on to a platform and that's when debris came crashing down. one woman, a local woman, a 34-year-old woman was killed. we're told passengers kicked out the emergency window and crawled

out. other passengers were crawling on the ground. wires were hanging from the ceiling. there was twisted metal everywhere. people were crawling to safety. about 108 people were injured and transported to area hospitals. now, this is what the ntsb has ahead of them. they've recovered two data recorders from the front and the back of the train, so they'll be going through those for information. they'll also be looking at video. recorders were on the outside of the train recording out. they'll be examining whether there was a mechanical error, whether it was human error, whether there was something wrong with the signals or even the tracks. melissa? >> tammy, thank you. back to "hardball." who is a world leader that you admire, respect, would like to emulate and why? >> well, i think merkel is a really great world leader, but i was very disappointed that -- when she, the whole move on immigration. i think it's a big problem.

>> who's your favorite world leader? >> oh, let me think? look, i like a lot of the world leaders. one of my favorites is angela merkel, because i think she's been an extraordinary, strong leader, during difficult times in europe. >> welcome back to "hardball." hillary clinton was having fun with that. that was donald trump and hillary clinton today. they bothed named angela merkel, chancellor of germany, when asked about a world leader they personally admire. last night during a "hardball" college tour at the university of new hampshire, libertarian candidate, gary johnson, seemed to draw a blank when i asked him that same question. let's take a look. >> who's your favorite foreign leader? >> who's my favorite -- >> just name anywhere in the country. any of the continents, any country. name one foreign leader that you spect and look up to. anybody. >> mine was shimon peres. >> i'm talking about living. you got to do this. canada, mexico, europe, over

there, asia, south america, africa, name a foreign leader that you respect. >> i guess i'm having an aleppo moment in the former -- >> i'm giving you the whole world. anybody in the world you like. pick any leader. >> the former president of mexico. >> which one? >> i'm having a brain -- >> well, name anybody. >> fox? calderon. >> name a foreign leader. >> merkel. >> merkel, fine. >> tonight governor johnson tweeted, it's been almost 24 hours and i still can't come up with a foreign leader i look up to. i think it was coming up with a name of a foreign leader. how badly did last night's appearance derail johnson's campaign? i'm joined by some smart alecks. and "the washington post's" opinion writer, the great jonathan. okay, jonathan. that's your response, eh? >> watching that, even for the 900th time, and watching it like this, it's so horrifying for

him, for governor weld. >> weld looked very uncomfortable. >> and as i just said, you ask him, give me a name of a mexican leader, he couldn't, but weld listed some mexican leaders i forgot about. >> he did mknow that. it was like one of those things from austin powers, the ejection seat. please, push that button. i want to disappear. >> oh, i know, it was so incredibly excruciatingly painful to watch it. it's still painful to watch it. and just what it says about his candidacy is this is a man who's completely unprepared. i mean, you'd think after the aleppo moment, that he even referenced with, that he would have boned up a little bit, and it just seemed like, it seemed like it wasn't even that he couldn't think of a leader he admired, it seemed like he couldn't even name a leader. and that to me is just so -- >> i was thinking over this in my head, to be honest about it, i do not know all the leaders of the 56 countries in africa, but i know a couple that are pretty

good. i'm looking at kenyata, who is doing pretty well. and i look at ian camma, i know some of that. i don't know much about latin america. but you have an option game here. i said, anywhere. you can go to merkel, hollande, anybody, cameron, theresa may, you can go to justin trudeau. >> yeah. >> come on! >> but he didn't -- i think it's a question of the newspaper habit. i mean, they used to talk about to kennedy, do you or do you not, whatever the equivalent is today, do you have the habit of getting up each day and trying to keep up with the world? is it something that's in you or not? >> and just the curiosity factor. >> just picking up the paper. >> you can be anti-interventionist, but if you're going tbe commander in chief, there's a seriousness toth presidency -- there are a lot of voters out there who don't like trump or clinton and they're taking safe harbor in this idea of johnson, but you have to think -- >> king abdullah of jordan. really good allies.

one area where governor johnson and his running mate openly disagreed last night, who's more qualified to be commander in chief. this one, i thought, was the bigger news. >> hillary clinton is clearly qualified to be commander in chief and president of the united states. >> how about the other guy? >> donald trump is clearly not qualified. and i've encouraged him almost with affection to think of some other job or profession he would like to -- i've suggested the laundry business. he could do great in the laundry business. he's got business smarts, but president of the united states is the wrong tree to be barking up for him. >> i think she's going to -- i think she's going to press the button. >> what? >> well, if confronted with that ten minutes, she's going to be hawkish, she's going to be more hawkish in that role. >> you think she has a happy trigger? >> i think she's not going to air on the side of not being the aggressor. >> you think it would be a precarious situation if she had nuclear capabilities? >> i think she's going to shoot. she's going to shoot. she's not going to be herself, she's not going to be perceived

as weak, she's going to shoot. >> you did see an audience of young peep, mostly college students at the university of new hampshire, believe hillary's hawkish, to the point of shooting. did you see that applause? that wasn't encouraged, by the way. that was just applauded. >> that is hillary's problems among progressives, the impression she's hawkish. >> i'm not sure where in the world he's coming up with that idea? you can't press a button -- >> you know how i set that up, i watched a very powerful on 60 minutes, he talked about the ten minutes out of strategic air command in omaha where this general out there gets a call from the president of the united states, they determine it's the president, and in ten minutes, they've got to determine what to do in response to an alert, if something looks like it's coming. >> and in that clip, that demonstrated why i think that ticket should be flipped. bill weld's answer to your question was thoughtful, responsive, and gary johnson was just glib. he was as glib in his answer as he thinks hillary clinton would

be as commander in chief. >> let's make some news now, because he also said, off the camera, but on the record, he said that he thinks that his old opponent, john kerry, deserves the nobel peace prize for what he did with the iranian peace deal. that was on the regular. it sure was, governor weld. the roundtable is staying with us and up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like any standardized medicare supplement plan, you'll be able to stay with the doctor or specialist you trust... or look for someone new -- as long as they accept medicare patients. and you're not stuck in a network... because there aren't any. so why wait? call now to request your free decision guide and learn more. for patients like lynn, advanced genomic testing may lead to other treatment options that can work.

learn how genomic testing is changing the way we fight cancer at cancercenter.com/genomics you know what, guys? there's a lot of tree branches and dry brush over here. we should probably move the bonfire over there. [smokey whistling a tune] i'm guessing smokey liked that idea.

we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. tell me something i don't know. >> in brooklyn, they're not excited -- >> that's like berlin in the war. >> they could not be happier with how easy donald trump proved to bait in that first debate. and they're really secretly rooting for him to play the l lewinsky card. even though it's a little uncomfortable, they think if he goes after bill clinton, he walks right into the same trap that he belittles women.

>> i completely agree. the clintons, again, know how to play this baby. >> they do. >> also about the clintons, there's been a lot of discussion, particularly among reporters about the crowd sizes that clinton is having. they're not quite as big as -- >> 1,200. compared to 3,000 for somebody else. >> but what people do not realize is that these are very strategically located events. so clinton had a smaller crowd size today in des moines, but it was directly next door to an early voting center. so those 1,200 people, you can bet if they were there to cheer on clinton, they were -- >> you say they want smaller crowds? >> they want -- >> i know! >> they want those crowds -- >> are we getting spun here? go ahead. >> my podcast on tuesday, i have an interview with rob reiner. he had great things to say about you, with chris, and your interview of donald trump. but the big news for me in the interview is i asked him, because he's so passionate about public policy and public service, if hillary clinton were to approach him and ask him to serve in her administration, would he, he said yes, and his

big issue, not ambassador, nothing highfalutin, infrastructure. >> yeah, we need a salesperson for that. you made some happy news here. thank you, jonathan, thank you, ely, thank you, annie. we'll be right back after this. they told me a bottle couldn't dream. that i would never become a superhero. [singing indistinctly] but i learned how to fly. just to come back in a new disguise, and be the hero i've always wanted to be.

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who prayed for peace in the holy land. what peres represents to people is the real possibility of what people can do together, how they can find the path to mutual acceptance. here he is in an interview i had with him in jerusalem not long after 9/11. listen to peres and you hear true wisdom, how the terrorists are not as strong as he seems, house civilization still has its edge over the bad guys. >> what do you understand their purpose to be, the people that did what they did to us three weeks ago? >> from my own experience, can i say that even terrorists are loaded with weakness, like anybody else. there is no perfection in terrorism. we exaggerate from time to time, because understandable reasons, but once you begin to confront them and fight them, you will discover so many holes and so many disorganizations that you'll be surprised by it. >> shimon peres, i loved knowing

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why pause the moment? ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. and for a $200 savings card, go to cialis.com donald trump can claim he knows more than all the generals, but the truth is, the candidate all the generals respect is hillary clinton. >> imagine what this man, we all know who he is, what the ramifications will be for decades upon decades upon decades. >> politics isn't entertainment. it isn't a joke. it isn't a cool place to set a television show. politics is the way that we create our moral vision. >> we're back. that was emmy award winning actor bradley witford and other stars from the hit tv series "the west wing" out on the campaign trail in ohio there for hillary clinton.

actor bradley witford joins us now. i know you're here for a very important cause, the national election. your performance as hubert humphrey -- you know, i'm watching the thing, all the way, in the movie, and i'm watching, i say, i know that guy. i swear i know that guy from somewhere. i know you pretty well. i'm thinking, my god, that's bradley witford in that hubert humphrey reality. anyway, just for an exercise, compare a guy like hubert humphrey, had a purpose for public life and public service with donald trump. here's an easy one. compare those two guys. >> compare them? i tell you, it's the same comparison i feel between trump and hillary clinton. she -- you know, as an actor you think about what is your motivation? her motivation for her entire professional life has been to speak out for children, for women's rights, civil rights, rights for people in all communities, and donald trump, on the other hand, his motivation is, i guess, you

know, accumulation of attention and money. >> you know, this seems like a different kind of election. not just as symmetric in terms of the personalities and motivations. "usa today" came out tonight, it's going to be in the paper tomorrow, they're endorsing against trump. papers like the newspaper down in texas, the dallas paper -- the detroit paper. people that are normally republican whatever you want to call them, establishment, are dismayed by trump. >> well, i got to say, i always used to joke that the fakest thing aside from my teeth about "the west wing" was we had rational republicans and wouc s the things that really upsets me is an election is not a personality contest. it is an opportunity for us to have an important discussion about how to face these tremendously urgent issues, and this rodeo clown has sucked all the oxygen out of the room. and i think it's -- it's not

good for us. >> well, explain this because great political leaders, whether it's fdr, lincoln, kennedy, all of them, obama, they all have the able to entertain in a broad sense. in a sense that grab your attention, keep your attention. they're not boring people. >> they have to be good on temperature. >> how does trump corrupt that -- we were allowed to look for charisma. it's not a bad thing. how is he corrupting that? >> well, listen, he is fantastic television in the same way watching a car wreck is fascinating television. he's hypnotic because of his utter lack of shame and his moral bankruptcy. it's a hypnotic thing to watch. i just want to say, you know, i've been list tong yoing to yo in the car on way over here. here we are talking about a candidate who is fat shaming people, a candidate who mocks people with disabilities. if i got a call from my son's

school and heard that he was mocking someone's disabilities, that he was making fun of flat-chested girls, fat shaming girls, i would disown him. and yet at a time when we should be discussing, and i really want kids to understand how important this election is. five supreme court justices. there's a lot of things -- >> okay. >> -- that we can't take for granted. >> you're a serious guy. thank you so much. a hell of an actor, by the way. i love your hubert humphrey. i mean it. >> i love hubert. >> you made it come to life. >> thank you. thank you so much. >> anyway, thank you bradley whitford. when we return, my election diary for tonight, with just 40 days left until the campaign ends with an election. you push

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"or something"? you don't just graduate from medical school, "or something." and we don't just pull smoked chicken, bake fresh foccacia and hand-slice avocado. there's nothing "or something" about it. narrator: it wasn't that long ago. years of devastating cutbacks to our schools. 30,000 teachers laid off. class sizes increased. art and music programs cut. we can't ever go back. ryan ruelas: so vote yes on proposition 55. reagan duncan: prop 55 prevents 4 billion in new cuts to our schools.

letty muñoz-gonzalez: simply by maintaining the current tax rate on the wealthiest californians. ryan ruelas: no new education cuts, and no new taxes. reagan duncan: vote yes on 55. sarah morgan: to help our children thrive. election diary thursday. september 29th, 2016. setting some sound numbers -- we're getting some sound numbers now on how monday's debate affected this election. one clear shift in opinion is among women. if you look at it from a before and after way, there are three times as many women now having a more favorable o ppinion of hillary clinton than donald trump. three times as many. the number of women have a worse opinion of trump as a result of the debate, roughly two to one. so what's confounding from a political point of view is trump's inability to put monday night's debate behind him. he can't shake it, can't take the loss and move on. he seems to be a prisoner of

monday night repeating it over and over again like an episode of "the twilight zone." well, that's the diary with 40 days until the election. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> he can run his campaign however he chooses. >> 40 days until the election, trump hones his message on the proper weight of beauty contestants. >> i saved her job because they wanted to fire her for putting on so much weight. >> why the campaign's counterpunch may do them more arm. >> every time a woman would come along and say bill clinton did something to her who was the biggest attacker of that woman? then how voters feel about trump's personal tax policy. >> if not paying taxes makes him smart, what does that make the rest of us? plus, trump backers cling to trade as his best debate moment. >> we have to renegotiate our trade deals, and lester, they're taking our