pennsylvania. tim kaine will be in pennsylvania before heading off to las vegas. hillary clinton surrogates will be out with bernie sanders and chelsea clinton will be in "morning joe" starts right now. >> heroin overdoses are surging and meth overdoses in nevada. you know what i said, you know what i said? i said when i came out here, i said nobody says it the other way. it has to be nevada. if you don't say it correctly, and it didn't happen to me but it happened to a friend of mine, he was killed. >> so that's what you want to do when you talk about heroin overdoses and drug epidemic. when you talk to that audience, just pull back for a second and then mock them on the way they pronounce their own state. nevada or nevada?

>> nevada. >> that's what the people from nevada say. >> here's the rule. if they want to call it nevada, you call it nevada. it's just like if dick cheney wants to say his last name is cheney, chris matthews should stop calling him cheney. he has for a decade. it's kind of weird. >> like china. >> exactly. >> long time mad man donny deutch is here. >> donny old. >> political writer for "the new york times" nicholas comfortse is here.

>> do you want to talk about it first and let people know what's going on? >> no. >> can you believe that guy? he's what we call in northwest florida a run away beer truck. he's out of his mind. >> we're tracking the hurricane which is -- my gosh look at this thing. bill karins is going to give us a complete update in just a few minutes. >> that's going to be category 5, right? >> we'll have a full update in just a few minutes. new polling to look at. national poll finds hillary clinton with a ten-point lead over donald trump. 50% to 40%. when those same voters were asked to consider pence at the top of the ticket in a head to head with clinton, it was a dead heat. >> did you see the reverse of that when they were asked if tim

kaine were running against donald trump, it was a 15-point lead for tim kaine. >> in ohio the gap has narrowed. hillary clinton leads 44 to 42. in most recent polls, it's been trump holding a narrow lead in that state. >> go ahead. >> "the new york times" reports that donald trump has begun to slip in some key swing states wiping out his bounceback in september and prompting concern among republicans in washington. according to the article, private polling by both parties shows an even worse drop especially among independent voters, moderate republicans and women. and it's a mixed picture in senate races for incumbent republicans. a new quinnipiac poll shows senator marco rubio holding onto a four-point lead. he has recently been blowing out his challenger in fund-raising. in north carolina, it's neck and neck. senator richard burr is tied and

toomey has opened up the lead over mcginty. and rob portman looks to walk away with his race in ohio leading by 17 points. >> pretty remarkable. the poll out of ohio, it's just pretty remarkable what rob portman is doing in what was once a swing state. that was expected to be tight. pennsylvania, actually you go to pennsylvania, pat toomey, one of my favoriteses in the senate. i'm all in. i'm all in. love his politics. he's not ahead by eight points. there have been three or four different polls and they're pretty close. this is a tight, tight race. i don't think anybody is up by eight points in this race. >> portman is the outlier. all around the country you have seen these candidates are having

a hard time peeling away and separating so portman is the exception. he's peeling away from trump. in north carolina if that poll is right, if democratic senate candidate is winning in north carolina, hillary clinton is the next president. you can't have a trump win if he's losing in north carolina. >> we were saying on monday afternoon, tuesday, didn't have polls for another week but when he was going after miss universe, i mean, this could be the equivalent of let's say you promoting a soup. getting campbell's soup and advertising it and someone eating campbell soup on johnny carson and throwing up all over johnny carson. people can say oh my god how can this happen? campbell soup is not making the

way it used to make the soup and we need a new advertising campaign. what happened to donald trump we predicted last week when he was fat shaming a miss universe and telling women in america that were 150 pounds that they had an eating disorder. so i think everybody that a week ago was freaking out when colorado was tied saying donald trump was going to win are now saying this race is over. could you as someone that roots against donald trump every day explain to everybody there's an ebb and flow here and if trump has a good debate on sunday night, we're going to be tied again in a week. >> there's another thing that could happen over the next couple -- >> the main thing is we may not be tight. this is not surprising at all. he had the worst week in the history of presidential campaigns. >> it's about where everybody ended up nationally four or five our six points. two things can happen over this weekend. one is this tragedy that's coming in the hurricane could actually -- i'm moving

forward -- help trump in that. we know that hillary is hunkered down preparing. what if trump on friday afternoon says i'm getting on my plane and i'm going down so south florida and has some special moments in florida with people that have been ravaged. this is someone that sits behind closed doors. i go out and get in touch with the people. i'm not saying to exploit the hurricane but that could play to him. the thing i think will play against him is this woman stuff. i have a strange feeling at the debate another name will come up from hillary that we haven't heard or thought about. i think between now and election day and one thing that trump cannot recover -- he recovers from sleaze but not hate stuff. there will be more women stuff to come. he doesn't recover from that. i would be shocked if between now and november 8th there are not three or four names of women we haven't thought about or heard about that articulate the problem that trump has.

continue to pound him. he. >> here's the thing though. hillary clinton is not the best person to deliver that message personally for reasons that were drawn out by maureen dowd over the past year or two. but when she spokes donald trump and he does it himself, it's devastating. also, let's show this ad. it was part of another news read on women. i think you're right. this is the achilles' heel. fits in with what you're saying right here. >> extremely powerful. >> it's using donald trump's own words instead of hillary clinton, which might have millennials and other people who remember the 1990s roll their eyes. take a look. >> i would look her right in

that fat ugly face of her. she's a slob. she ate like a pig. a person who is flat chested is hard to be a ten. does she have a good body? no. >> do you treat women with respect? >> i can't say that either. >> what an absolute brilliant ad. and the clinton campaign is using across the platform. they broke that ad friday before the debate knowing what they would put out at the debate. >> so all of us that have daughters look at that ad and flinch just because the ad is very well done. again, the most powerful -- >> women also look at the ad and see themselves in it as little girls. >> and again, it's his words. it's not her lecturing. it's his words used against him. it's pretty masterful. >> it's used strategically. you put it out before the debate

knowing where you want that week to go. i think when they set the trap at the debate, they didn't think it would carry in for a week. he dug in. it's what he does. interesting to see what the trap this weekend is on sunday night. what are they put in play that eats up another week with only four weeks left in the campaign. >> if i'm hillary clinton, it's another story about another woman. this is where the race will be won or lost. >> yesterday in nevada donald trump was asked about his comments about women. take a look. >> do you understand the concern from parents of younger girls that some of the wording that you've used to talk about attractiveness or unattractiveness might make it more difficult for girls who are struggling with their body image and pressure to be model perfect. >> a lot of this is being done in the entertainment business. i'm being interviewed for "apprenti

"apprentice" before running for office. it was done for the purpose of entertainment. there's nobody -- i can tell you this. there is nobody that has more respect for women than i do. >> are you trying to tone it down now? >> it's not a question of trying. it's very easy. you're in the entertainment busy. you're doing "the aprentisenapp and have the top show on television and you say things for a reason and now it's a much different world. >> are people going to buy that? >> i don't know. a while back he said to me, boy, i wish i hadn't done those howard stern interviews. if i know then what i know now. you go on there and of course it's whatever. but what he said, again in the light of day in the middle of a presidential campaign is absolutely searing. >> it's almost an apology right there. almost. it's this close to saying i shouldn't have said that. but instead he said i played it for laughs.

it was a joke. i did it for that reason. i'm not sure that's going to fly. >> which will be very offensive, willie, to other people for other reasons. >> it's the same rationale he used when he was talking to howard stern and you have to dismiss it and throw it to the side. that's his entire life? are we supposed to discard everything he said and believed in for 69 years and only take into account what he said for the last year and a half. >> especially when that celebrity is what's gotten him to where he is now. you take good with the bad. there's no doubt that some of the comments regarding the women especially what he did last week on his own when his staff wanted him to move off of it was so devastating. think it's one of the reasons we're seeing the polls that we're seeing. think about this. donald trump has had his campaign undermined by a muslim

family, a muslim gold star mother, and a venezuelan beauty queen. i think those episodes in this campaign have done more to damage him than any others. >> "the apprentice" is a reality show, right? i'm saying that people accepted that. many of them. it was highly rated. >> i did three seasons. they would come up to my office. >> lowest rated season. >> of course they were. in a lot of conversations i had with donald, he does talk about women a lot. what you see is what you get the thing with women also come sunday night, hillary clinton's two achilles heels, the foundation and e-mails. no one is going to stand up and say hi, i'm mrs. e-mail. he could come into contact with

an overweight woman or a muslim. >> i can't get to it. donny deutch did three lines of coke this morning before coming on the show and we can't get -- >> it was a bump. not lines. >> i don't know what that means. >> bill clinton, what is this? what was he on? >> the former president was out in force yesterday going from stop to stop in ohio where hillary clinton has trailed in most recent polls. >> i can't make her younger. >> giving grief about your obamacare comment? >> no. look. it's clearly from what i said that there are problems with it. i supported it strongly from the get-go. but i knew at some point the people that were just above the subsidy line were going to get

in trouble because they don't have enough market power. that's not his fault. he tried to get a public option. it's hard for you to write a serious story every day. i understand that. if somebody says something and it can be rolled around it's irresistible. >> you said that was just bill clinton telling the truth. why would he start now? >> he's describing actual problems with the program which is that too many insurance plans are still too expensive on the exchanges. that's becoming a problem. that's a real thing. >> he accidentally told the truth. >> the thing is he sounds a lot like a republican where he says you're penalized if you work hard. if you work 60 hours a week, you'll work yourself right out of obama care, which is of course, my gosh, that's basically 1994. the system is set up to

discourage hard work. >> he softened it there and tried to soften it the other day. when he was on the podium, he said small business people are getting killed. those were his words. they're being killed. craziest thing in the world. he can now modify that and say it's not obama's fault. he tried to get it. >> he called it a crazy system. it's the craziest thing in the world. people out busting at 60 hours a week wind up with premiums doubled and coverage cut in half. it's the craziest thing in the world. there's no climbing back from that. >> this wasn't the first time that bill clinton's comments have turned heads this election season. here's a look at a number of missteps. some even praised by the 42nd president. >> best change maker i've ever known. a lot of people say, well, you don't understand. it's different now. it's rigged. it's rigged because you don't have a president who is a change maker who congress will work

with them but the president has done a better job than he has gotten credit for. don't you forget it. i think he's done a better job than he's gotten credit for but here's the deal. so why is this such a wacky election? because millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of people look at that pretty picture of america he painted, and they cannot find themselves in it to save their lives. hillary is running for president to put every single american in the picture president obama painted. if you believe we can all rise together, if you believe we finally come to the point where we can put the awful legacy of the last eight years behind us and seven years before that when we were practicing trickle down economics and no regulation in washington, which is what caused the crash, then you should vote for her. you've got this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and

then people out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and coverage cut in half. it's the craziest thing in the world. >> let me read these. he talked about the awful, awful legacy of the last eight years. he talked about barack obama's awful, awful -- and by the way editors -- i'm talking to you. editors. if a republican presidential candidate, if this happened on the other side, it would have been on the front page day after day. most americans haven't heard this. the awful legacy of the last eight years is what bill clinton calls barack obama's legacy. willie, he says, millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of people look at the pretty picture of america that barack obama has painted and they can't find themselves in it to save their lives. and then he says, yeah, it's a rigged system because we don't

have a president who is a change maker and then he calls his signature policy achievement the craziest thing in the world. >> pretty remarkable for a democratic saying that about another democratic let alone any president saying it about another president. you have to go back and remember the history of it. in 2008, the clintons feel like this young senator, barack obama, came in and stole what was rightly theirs which was hillary clinton to be the nominee and eventually the president. he also feels like he was the cool president during times of peace and prosperity who looked even better after eight years of george w. bush. and then obama came and stole that thunder too. >> he said he needs obama to hold it together for a couple more weeks. >> give me one month. bill, one month. >> obamacare is close to what hillary clinton proposed in 2008 as a candidate. >> i think he's concerned 50 years from now they'll look back

at the obama presidency and then look back at a clinton presidency with monica lewinsky. >> stunning that they are letting them out there. >> you talk about the scandal and 50 years from now barack obama, whether republicans and independents like it or not, he's going to be seen as a transformative president. you're going to have fdr. you're going to have reagan and you're going to have barack obama. it's going to happen. and bill clinton knows that. it's driving him crazy. why is he still on the campaign trail? at some point they gave joe biden an ipod and ear phones and put him on a plane and flew him around. when are they going to do that to bill clinton? >> i think rudy giuliani and bill clinton should get a nice retirement pad in a community and get off the stump.

he looks so unstrong compared to trump as a male out there. >> who does? >> clinton. he looks weak versus biden still looks strong out there. he's got to move off. >> here's the problem. if you're going to attack a president, don't attack a president that is the man along with his wife who have a better chance of getting your wife elected than anybody on the planet. >> cnn has a poll. his approval rating at 55%. the highest ever in the second term. >> in the second term. why, willie, does he -- >> i think it's personal. >> take him off the campaign right now. you have to take him off. >> on top of that also, he plays into the trump narrative, you want the last 30 years you've done this? i got the future. i don't think there's any

benefit for gore to be out there or bill. it brings back bill and hillary years. >> on his best days, bill clinton is still one of the best politicians and campaigners out there but what you're seeing are not his best days and she needs barack and michelle obama everywhere she could get them. >> we really want to get to an update on hurricane matthew now. let's go to bill karins. >> by the way, if we had jon meacham here we could figure out what john tyler was remembered for. >> the hurricane is bearing down on the atlantic coast. bill, bring us up to date. >> this went from serious to very, very serious overnight. we're now talking about a category 4 landfall on florida's east coast that's going to be along the coastline for about 200 miles as a cat 4.

it could bump close to category 5 by the time it gets near us as early as this evening. let me get into everything you need to know. the storm is close to nassau. it's only 200 miles from miami. that's not that far away. here's the forecast path from the hurricane center taking it over the bahamas. closest point to miami would be this evening and west palm beach. eye wall could be over ft. lauderdale this evening and along the florida coast and near south carolina and georgia. we won't forget about you. you have more time to prepare. hurricane warnings extended almost all of the way down into miami. the big thing that changed overnight is winds are expected to be higher in miami and also ft. lauderdale. here's our forecast models. the red line is the official from the forecast center. these different models. in agreement with landfall between west palm beach and melbourne hours overnight. if it is farther south, the eye is the calm.

hurricane eye wall is where the worst of the destruction could and that could be as far south as ft. lauderdale. if you're in miami and ft. lauderdale, prepare for the worst and hope that northward trend spares you. it couldn't spare the space coast or northwest florida. i want to show you this image. this is timing of it. here comes the storm. 2:00, 6:00 p.m., latest update. this is the hurricane eye wall brushing near ft. lauderdale at 6:00 p.m. this evening. big change for south florida. worst forecast than you expected when you went to bed last night. when this is said and done, i'm getting more confident this will be compared to the katrinas, the ritas, the andrews. as serious a situation as we experienced in this country with a landfalling hurricane. >> you have to go back to hurricane andrew which not to make everything political, hurricane andrew changed

politics. it actually changed the building code in the state of florida because it was so devastating. if that -- we've seen it. i've been on the air with you over the past decade where we've seen it the last minute it tick a little to the left or tick a little bit to the right. for the sake of south florida, we all should pray that it ticks a little bit right. a little movement left it hits miami. >> eye of the storm is over northern miami and all of ft. lauderdale. this is a high, dense population area. people weren't ordered under mandatory evacuation and waking up saying we may only have 12 hours. >> and, again, you look at the densely populated -- we talk about katrina. katrina went in over the gulf coast of mississippi.

new orleans was, which was a tragedy for the people there, you multiply the population by millions and millions and millions and it's just going to be, it could be devastating. >> the message today is to try to save as many lives as possible and we'll deal with the destruction when it's said and done. jean took a path farther north in 2005 and that caused $20 billion worth in damages. this is expected to hit more population centers, be on the coast longer and be stronger. katrina was by far the most expensive hurricane we ever had in this country. i don't know if it would get to that level. that was almost 125 billion. this could easily be in top five all time. >> it could be close. bill, i guess you would say as far as population goes especially in florida, this is the worst case scenario going up the gold coast. going up the space coast. >> never happened. >> it never scraped and went along. >> katrina came in. this eye could go along the entire east coast of florida.

you think about power outages from jean which lasted a week. people could be without power for one to two to three weeks out of this. what do power crews do that will come down? i'm sure they're already assembled. power crews from tennessee and georgia and i'm sure they are coming in this general direction because they're going to be needed. it's going to be hard to get to south florida. the only way down is most likely down the west side of florida and that's where everyone is evacuated to because of this storm. we haven't been through many events like this. you mention the politics of it. president bush went through numerous events when he was president. this is the first one for obama. still ahead, the republican vice presidential nominee governor mike pence joins us for a live interview. plus, hillary clinton supporters, senator claire

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>> as you probably know, 37 million americans gathered around their tv sets and portable views devices for the mildly anticipated vice presidential debate, and it was just about as interesting as you mit imagine. an argument between a guy named mike and a guy named tim would be. she's burping her. that's a lot of patting. >> wow. >> coming up, the atlantic puts hillary clinton in rare company. the endorsement since the third time in 1857. the must read opinion pages are next. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road.

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>> had a little debate last night. some people think i won. [ applause ] i'll leave that to others. you know, what i can tell you is from where i sat, donald trump won the debate. donald trump's vision to make america great again won the

debate. >> mike pence did an incredible job, and i'm getting a lot of credit because that's my first so-called choice. that was my first hire as we d y in las vegas. i would argue that mike had the single most decisive victory in the history of vice presidential debates. i believe that too. and last night america also got to look firsthand at my judgment. that was judgment. you know, you need judgment for people, for deals. >> it's like he's talking to 4 year olds. >> i don't know. >> we're going to miss him, aren't we? what will we talk about? >> what do you mean? where's he going? >> impressed he was able to acknowledge in the first line of the speech that it was mike pence that did well before he said it was he who did well who chose mike pence. >> good save by pence at the

end. donald's vision i was running away from for 90 minutes and denying. >> he deflected through the entire debate very well. >> of course he did. the entire debate was pretending donald trump hadn't said things he had. >> third ever endorsement in a presidential race. >> how did that turn out for abraham lincoln? i would not want them to get anywhere near me. this is what they write. we are impressed with many qualities of the democratic party's nominee for president even as we're exasperated by others. we're concerned about donald trump. if hillary clinton were facing mitt romney or john mccain or george w. bush or for that matter any of the leading candidates trump vanquished in

the republican primaries, we would not have contemplated making this endorsement. >> that's a remarkable statement saying there were a lot of other candidates out there that we would have gladly, you know, stayed out of the race for. >> but trump is not a man of ideas. he's a demagogue. a sexist. a no nothing and a liar. he is spectacularly unfit for office and voters should act in defense of american democracy and elect his opponent. >> it's amazing how the press has galvanized. carried him up until this point. >> they haven't carried him up to this point. >> hold on a second. we've been hearing that forever that the press has carried donald trump. you know what you haven't seen this year because it would undermine that argument. what you see every year.

the percentage of negative stories for candidate a and the percentage of negative stories for candidate b. when this campaign is over, i hope some journalism student at columbia will do a study and actually go through the numbers and what you will find is that probably no candidate has had more negative press directed in his direction in the history of presidential campaigns than donald trump. i think that is a matter of data. so all of these bold generalities about pros carry donald trump for ratings and to sell this and that is a lie. >> number one, as of a month ago -- i don't have it at my fingertips but more negative articles about hillary clinton. when i say carry -- >> than donald trump? >> i was stunned. i'll provide that for you. what i meant by carry was not

that they were propping him up but they were not going to go for the full assault. right now you see it in the arizona newspapers and you see universally because basically people, journalists are educated and that's what's happening here at this point in time. >> we talked about this yesterday. you now have a lot of people in the press openly that are supposed to be down the middle openly cheering for hillary clinton in a way that they want to be able to tell their children and grandchildren after it's over, i did everything i could. >> conscience are journalists. you're supposed to write stories down the middle and let people go after it and let people like us who get paid to give our opinions go after it. we still need journalists who can do things down the middle this passionately. >> sometimes there's no other side to an argument. that's what's happening here.

>> sometimes you can tell the fact, give the facts, and we need to talk to you about this. you can do it dispassionately. these are facts. this is what donald trump said. if think they're offensive, that great. my job is to put the facts down and not tweet all day about he's a -- >> his business history and comments of women and it doesn't have to be gilded with outrage. there is plenty to write for news and investigations and many outlets are doing it i think. >> i would ask donny to name the positive story about donald trump you can remember in the last six months? just what's the one story? >> give me a positive story about hillary clinton? >> pick up the paper today.

>> it's a reverse negative. that endorsement was all about donald trump. very view -- here's why we love hillary clinton. even that story was if anybody else was running we would have stayed out of it. >> the problem is a lot of coverage i looked at studies on this. a lot of the coverage is basically just him talking on the air. there's a debate about whether a news channel should have shown this long stretch of his speeches. i would argue that showing a long stretch of donald trump speech is not always a good advertisement for him or helpful to him. sometimes it is. he is winning the nomination because -- he was ahead in the nomination and now the nominee because his brand of politics sold. people wanted it. that's why. that's it. >> here's "the boston globe." a smiling picture of bill

clinton. advertisement for hillary clinton's campaign. you look at "wall street journal." trump contributed to prosecutors. trump's slide rattles gop at the capitol. >> wouldn't have seen that six months ago. that's my point. not as universal. they're all in right now. >> it's in the numbers. don't tell me that the newspapers and broadcasts and cable don't do positive profiles on hillary clinton and the clinton campaign. >> far and new between. >> again, all i'm saying is we ought to -- we still need in this country reporters that don't do what we do that actually report like nick says and give us the objective facts and trust us to be smart enough -- >> you have that in fox news. >> we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." ♪

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all right. coming up, harvard university top pollster is here with a brand new take on the presidential race. >> technology hard at work. >> okay. plus we'll take a check of -- we'll check in with bill karins as hurricane matthew bears down on the florida coast. this is a big one. we're back in a moment. you work at ge? yeah, i do. you guys are working on some pretty big stuff over there, right? like a new language for crazy-big, world-changing machines. well, not me specifically. i work on the industrial side. so i build the world-changing machines. i get it. you can't talk because it's super high-level. no, i actually do build the machines. blink if what you're doing involves encrypted data transfer. wait, what? wowwww... wow? what wow? there is no wow.

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joining us now, john, always good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> you last night conducted a focus group of millennials in philadelphia. what's the number one thing on their mind? how are they feeling about the race? >> these are undecided millennials. a couple things. they are not convinced that there's a tangible difference between hillary clinton right now and donald trump. they are not convinced. one said he was fearful. but these are folks who really do have a future in their hands and i think it's coming down to a decision between hillary clinton, gary johnson and the couch whether or not they even participate in this election. >> hillary clinton and gary johnson. a choice between a shady but knowledgeable clinton who is a bully and a stoned ill informed

libertarian as one person put it. >> who wants more information about him. that's not enough information at this point. they're seeking more information because they are just dissatisfied with the current choices. >> hillary clinton for all of the claims of her troubles with millennials is up 51% to 19% against donald trump among millennials. >> that's the case. he's tapped up. he's probably in the mid 20s. the decision whether they vote for her or stay home. all indications are to this point that an electorate that less than 1 in 2 showed up in 2012, it's just not the difference of a victory between 50 something versus 20 something is enough of them need to show up in a place like pennsylvania, florida, new hampshire, et cetera, to make that difference. >> if they can't see a difference between these two incredibly different candidates, what do they care about? >> they care about waking up every morning and checking their cell phone and making sure they

have money in their bank account. these are folks who talk about living at home some of them because they have five or six brothers and sisters to take care of and help out their parents. they care about having a little bit of simplicity. >> they like bernie. >> yeah. they do like bernie. these are folks who are kind of really just turning into the campaign at this point. i don't think their expectations are too high in terms of what they expect. >> what do they tell you about trump? >> as willie has said, he's got a strong temperament. a couple women in the group actually were satisfied with his plans to combat terrorism and made them feel safer. they're looking to frankly be put at ease a little bit. he has an opportunity to connect in some way. >> did you sense any hidden support or the kind of thing that mika and i hear when we go

out across the country that people are embarrassed to admit publicly that they're going to support donald trump? >> not in this group. i certainly think that's potentially a phenomenon with polling. i get the sense that some of the traditional mainstream republicans may be feeling not comfortable talking about that in public but will be with him at the end. i think some of his rise in the polls in late summer was because of that. this group is different. last group to make up their mind. difference in four or five states in 2012 were from folks just like this. >> and they see bill clinton adding to the campaign. >> they see him as a plus. they're not 100% convinced that she can be trusted at all in every aspect of becoming president, of being president, but they think having president

clinton around is a plus without question. you talk about scandals and things from 25, 30 years ago. >> if you just talk about the history of younger voters, chances are good baseded on what you're telling me that the decision they're going to make is sitting on the couch and not going out and voting. it's harder to get younger voters out than anybody else. if right now the are this pulled apart, chances are good they just stay at home. >> which is a net positive at the end of the day for donald trump, right? the more they stay home, the less likely to vote for one of his opponents. not a lot of political incentive, frankly, for him to be talking about the youth vote in any significant way. clinton campaign has a difficult job because they need to persuade people that there's a tangible difference between her and their candidates and motivate people to vote. something difficult for obama in

2012 is only a few states in the entire map in 2012 where you had 50% of people show up. >> john, thank you so much. good to have you back on the show. coming up on "morning joe," we'll get an updated track on hurricane matthew as it storms toward florida. bill clinton is barnstorming ohio but after his comments on obamacare, are his comments best used elsewhere and governor mike pence joins us for a live interview. how he and donald trump plan to close out the presidential race. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." why are you checking your credit score?

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>> bill clinton yesterday. they're so angry at him. they scolded him yesterday. he was scolded. so bill clinton torched president obama's signature legislation. remember, hillary clinton called obamacare one of the greatest accomplishments of president obama of the democratic party and of our country itself, right? bill had a different view. he said it's just a crazy system. that's the way he said it. it's the craziest thing in the whole world. then he went on to say, people out there are busting it.

we're going to repeal and replace obamacare. bill clinton said we have to do it. he's suffering now. all he did was tell the truth. >> welcome back to morni"mornin joe." joining the conversation is kasie hunt and walter isaacson. >> what's bill clinton doing? calling obamacare the craziest thing ever? >> there's a wonderful definition of a gaffe in washington is when someone accidentally tells the truth. obamacare is something we really need in society. we need to expand health care. it's a crazy system. if you have a normal political

system back in the day when you were part of that normal political system, you would say, okay, it's jerry-rigged at the moment but we know how to fix it. there's no way you can possibly fix this. >> what's bill clinton doing calling it insane? we have clips we'll play here in a second where he says barack obama is not a change maker. millions of americans don't see that pretty picture barack obama has painted for america. he talks about barack obama's awful legacy of the last eight years. he can't put it on hold for another month? >> he almost did, didn't he. >> almost made it. why the contempt? why does bill clinton have seeming contempt for barack obama? >> he has resentimenmentresentm. it's not just an ego. if he had healthy ego, we would be in better shape here. i think if you have seething resentments, they come out. you see it all over. this is a year of seething

resentments all over the place. >> we want to let you know we're watching hurricane matthew closely this morning. it stormed through haiti leaving massive flooding and death in its path. now it is bearing down on the florida coast and the question is this hour will it be a category 4 or worse when it arrives tonight. bill karins, concern this could be katrina-like proportions just to give you perspective here. >> it could be a worse case scenario. it looks like it is. it's going to go up the coast. it's going to start just north of miami and it looks like it will tear through west palm beach, ft. pierce, melbourne, the space coast, up to jacksonville and then of course into charleston. again, just a worse case scenario. we'll be following it throughout the day. >> don't forget haiti. haiti has been hit over and over again. i know a guy who works with partners in health and they've got thousands of people down there.

people should keep that in mind as well. >> we'll be watching this. bill karins is going to join us shortly for a complete update. we'll watch it throughout the show and throughout the day here on msnbc. back to politics, former president bill clinton out in force yesterday going from stop to stop in ohio where hillary clinton has trailed in most recent polls. the gap has narrowed in the latest monmouth university poll which has hillary clinton up 44-42. the clinton campaign is playing cleanup over bill clinton's comments about president obama's signature health care law. >> i worked hard to support the bill that passed. i've been very vocal in my support of it. one big problem that by the way many members of congress including senator brown and the president himself warned about back in 2014. basically it's been a tough slog for the last year for small businesses who are a little bit above the eligibility for any

help from the government and for individual workers who made a little too much money to get any help. the law has done wonders for thousands of americans. and you can't deny coverage for pre-existing conditions and that helped every single person. >> he's out there spinning it. of course, willie, when you say it's a crazy system and it's the craziest thing in the world and people work hardest are ones being penalized the day before, it's hard to walk that back. >> he tried to put nuance into it yesterday and after he said it two days ago, you know, he's saying it's difficult for a lot of people. pieces of it. not talking about the bill in its entirety. too little too late. you've gone out on the stump at a major campaign event in front of cameras and crowd and forced hillary clinton into this position do you agree with your husband that this is a crazy system. >> he has a history of this. >> it's not the first time that

bill clinton's campaign has turned heads this election season. here's a look at a number of missteps. some even couched in praise by the 42nd president from the campaign trail this year criticizing president obama. >> best change maker i've ever known. a lot of people say, well, you don't understand. it's different now. it's rigged. it's rigged because you don't have a president who is a change maker who has a congress that will work with them. the president has done a better job than he has gotten credit for. don't you forget it. i think he's done a better john than he's gotten credit for. why is it such a wacky election? because millions and millions and millions and millions of people look at that pretty picture of america he painted and they cannot find themselves in it to save their lives. hillary is running for president to put every single american in

the picture president obama painted. if you believe we can all rise together, if you believe we finally come to the point where we can put the awful legacy of the last eight years behind us and seven years before that when we were practicing trickle down economics and no regulation in washington, which is what caused the crash, then you should vote for her. you have this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and then the people out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and coverage cut in half. it's the craziest thing in the world. >> that was actually the craziest thing in the world right there. >> what's going on? why is he doing that? >> mika, why is he? >> i'm asking walter. >> you look at the fact again. you were left with one of two

options. one, it seems fairly obvious, he absolutely loathes and resents barack obama or two, he wants to sabotage his wife's presidential campaign. this could not come at a worst time. kasie, you have barack obama and michelle obama being the two most important people right now in hillary clinton's political life. approval rating 55%. higher than it's been in the second term. a new cnn poll out showing he's stronger than ever. and you have bill clinton attacking. >> i would say there's a third option. bill clinton has a real political blind spot when it comes to defending his wife. he's been defending his wife since the 2008 campaign. there are scars still leftover from that that they publicly got over but bill clinton has tripped over a couple times. >> the awful legacy of the last eight years.

we have to put it behind us. the awful legacy. he sounds like mitch mcconnell. >> here's the fourth option. there is some truth in what he's saying. a lot of people haven't benefited over the last 15 years. you have an economy coming back. >> do you think barack obama has an awful legacy? >> i don't think so at all. >> bill clinton does. >> i don't think bill clinton does. >> if you believe we can rise together and finally come to the point where we can put the awful legacy of the last eight years behind us, and the seven years before that. >> i do think that on balance bill clinton thinks obama has done a great job. i think there's a lot of seething resentments going on in there. >> you also know he does not like barack obama personally. >> right. i think that hillary gets along with barack obama fine. >> i think she does.

so do you have a fifth option, willie? >> i think we exhausted all of them. when you hear him say particularly the one line that jumped out at me in that montage we played, he painted this pretty picture. venom under that. he created this idea of america. >> hold on. he says this. because -- just for emphasis because millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of people look at that pretty picture he painted and can't find themselves in it to save their lives. that little phrase is the knife going in. >> think about where bill clinton came from politically and think about the people that are upset and feeling left out of this system. he came from the south. from arkansas with a lot of rural african-american but also white americans. that is where bill clinton comes from. a lot of this election has been a total repudiation of the clinton's center right politics of the '90s. people rejected that

wholeheartedly. i can see stepping back and saying this is difficult for me to watch. >> maybe perhaps don't go on the campaign trail. >> don't attack barack obama. don't attack the man that can do more to get your wife elected president of the united states than any other surrogate out there, right? >> the president to his credit from the perspective of hillary clinton campaign has been willing to get out there and do anything. i would be interested to see his reaction to the montage that you just played. >> by the way, she has said it much differently. she's proposed a bunch of changes to obama care. s she hasn't said it the way he said it. she wrote an article outlining changes she thinks need to be made to obamacare. >> a working class and middle class struggling for 15 to 20 years that if you look at the new affordable care act, they're not the ones that benefit the most and you look at a country in which the working middle class has been left behind.

whether it's by the super rich or by the various policies. bill clinton gets that. so does joe biden. so do others. hillary clinton gets it and that is a wrap on what's happened in the past 20 years the middle in america has hallowed out. >> one thing to get it and another to do something about it. >> you occasionally tell the truth out loud and you get called a gaffe. >> but in this case, i think the big question is why is bill clinton attacking the sitting democratic president. >> it was a veiled attack. >> if you call the signature accomplishment of somebody the craziest thing in the world, this isn't veiled. if you talk about an awful legacy of the past eight years, that's not veiled. none of this is. it's a rigged system because you have a president who is not a change maker. that's not veiled. and i'm surprised again nobody is writing about this. if one republican president were

attacking another former republican president on the campaign trail whose wife was running for president, my gosh. front page every day. >> the part -- >> i'm not sure this has been ignored. >> it has been been ignored. 95% of the people watching have not seen most of these clips. have you guys seen them? >> not until this week. >> i have. some of the context on some clips is they happen during the primary when she was running against bernie sanders so there's a different frame on it. this obamacare thing is separate. then he was watching this progressive try to turn down nafta and trade and all of these things. i think in some cases there's a little bit of different surrounding. this obamacare thing is different. >> it's one thing to have personal feelings about president obama and maybe he doesn't like him. i don't know. personal relationship. the context is your wife is trying to become president. if my wife was up for a job she wanted for the entirety of her life and i didn't like her boss, i would keep that to myself for one month until she signed the

deal. >> new polling to look at this morning. national poll finds hillary clinton with a ten-point lead over donald trump 50% to 40%. this morning "the new york times" reports that donald trump has begun to slip in some key swing states wiping out his bounceback in september and prompting concern among republicans in washington. according to the article, private polling by both parties shows an even worse drop especially among independent voters, moderate republicans and women. >> walter isaacson, let me ask you, is this race over? has hillary clinton won it? >> no. we've watched an amazing roller coaster ride and we've watched things just pop up. i mean, there's been a lot of hacking. there's been a lot of leaking of things. russia is still hacking into our various systems. who knows, wikileaks didn't produce last week but who knows what will come out.

so i think you got a good run until election day. a long way to go. >> we also have this hurricane which could impact the conversation as well. let's go there. the other big story of the morning, hurricane matthew. up to 2 million people have been advised to evacuate and many did in south carolina where they reversed lanes on the interstate to speed people up out of charleston. let's go to bill karins with the check on the latest track. how's it looking. >> i'm not one to be an alarmist some of the wording coming out from the national weather service. from the melbourne area, extremely dangerous. life threatening wind possible. failure to adequately shelter may result in serious injury, loss of life or immense human suffering. that's what they tell the people on coastal areas up to jacksonville, florida. storm has intensified overnight. here's the latest forecast path. hasn't changed much overnight.

excellent agreement. it's going to rake right along the coast or make landfall right along the coast for about 48 hours as a category 4 hurricane. category 4 hurricanes are catastrophic. if that's the case, you're talking extreme damage west palm beach all of the way up here into maybe areas of southern georgia by the time we get through saturday morning. this is going to start tonight, thursday night, and then go until saturday afternoon with struction along the path. first at risk, overnight we shifted our focus a little bit farther to the south. very concerned west palm beach, ft. lauderdale area and concern miami. if you go through the eye, that's the calm. this is the eye wall. you do not want to go through that. that's where we could get destructive winds of 100 to 150 miles per hour. we predict that to be over the top of west palm beach and halfway down to ft. lauderdale. if you're in the ft. lauderdale, miami area, prepare for the worst. west palm beach, you have eight

hours until the harsh winds will be arriving and then it will be too late by this evening to do anything. then we move this up the coast tonight. destructive winds will be starting in west palm beach and by 2:00 a.m. make their way toward ft. pierce. and then that horrible storm surge up the coast along with horrible winds at 8:00 a.m. tomorrow morning the horrible winds will be over the top of almost to orlando who by the way much of that area will lose power on the backside in hurricane force winds but destructive winds and storm surge will be in the east. usually with hurricanes the wind causes significant damage. they usually cost us most lives is flooding and storm surge. miami, ft. lauderdale, expect one to three-foot storm surge. west palm beach, three to five feet. here's the bad stuff. this zone from north of ft. pierce to savannah georgia, six to nine feet storm surge. if you're on the edge of the

atlantic, that water could be three feet over your head at the peak of the storm surge and that water will just be rushing through buildings, through homes, i know some of them are on stilts and hopefully that will save some of them but that combined with 140-mile-per-hour winds, this is going to be one of the ugliest storms we've dealt with in a very long time. >> it looks ugly on radar. we had storm surge in ivan and it's happened quite a few times where just rakes across pensacola beach and wipes everything out that's not up in the air. you're a new orleans guy. spent a lot of time there. >> in katrina, we thought we dodged the storm as category 4 and it was about 12 hours later that the levies broke. it was a flood and storm surge that did it. i was wondering though how vulnerable is that atlantic coast of florida really to flooding? >> bill? >> it's relatively flat. it's not -- it's very flat.

very low elevations. they have the intercoastal waterway. everyone will be off barrier islands except maybe a couple emergency personnel. hopefully we'll save lives there. we won't know until saturday how devastating that storm surge was to the businesses that line up and down the east coast of florida. you'll see all of the high rises most likely west palm beach northward all of the hotels with 145-mile-per-hour winds, tho buildings are meant to withstand winds that strong but we'll have windows that are blown out of all of those buildings if winds materialize like we think they will. now we're trying to save lives. we'll deal with destruction later. there will be people without power in areas of the east coast of florida two weeks from now assured, maybe three weeks in some cases if the destruction is that bad. >> i think for a very long time. >> the utilities down south, they have a cgroup.

they will come together. >> ivan in '04 category 4 tore our town to shreds. pensacola. >> they have underground power lines. that does help. some of it is above ground. >> that night walked out and everything was pitch black. you just saw mississippi power trucks up and down your street, alabama power trucks. all of the southern power trucks. trucks coming from all over the country. >> that's one of the silver linings of a hurricane is a couple days later when you see the royal canadian mountain police coming down. you see all of the walmart trucks coming in. you see all of the utility trucks. people working together to try to repair things. >> this is eerie to me from four years ago when we had hurricane sandy blast its way through just a few days before the election. >> what you look at here is n

nassau, bahamas, where it's blowing through now. >> i would say there's only about a 10% to 15% chance right now that this would maybe just brush the coast instead of direct landfall. time is running out. >> worst case scenario is if it ticked west and suddenly you have that northeast side of the storm which produces the highest winds produces the highest surge. the only -- it's not really -- it's cold comfort this morning. thank god that you do have that northeast side of the storm out in the atlantic. >> we are counting -- at least we had been -- on all forecast models taking it along the coast with worst of the winds offshore. with this storm, a lot of these points are right along the coast. that northern quadrant will have the extreme winds like the northeast quadrant. i just saw wind forecast. you get your forecast on your

phone or you get it on your computer. the weather forecast right now in daytona beach if you look at it is calling for 120-mile-per-hour winds with gusts to 150. you can picture that. >> bill karins, thank you very much. >> i know we have to clear you. >> you look at the name of the those towns up and down the coast and hear bill talk about high rises, i talk about the number of senior citizens that live up and down those towns. we have relatives that live there by the hundreds of thousands. i imagine this morning as they woke up and saw the intensity pick up and the direction of the storm, they have to go but not a lot of time to do it. >> they don't have a lot of options of where to go. >> walter isaacson, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we'll keep our eye on hurricane matthew throughout the show and all day on msnbc. still ahead on "morning joe," vice presidential candidate mike pence is our guest and so is senator claire mccaskill will have more time on her hands since the cardinals missed the

postseason. >> cheap shot. >> claire is tough. she's fine. >> i was cheering for the cards. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. have conquered highways, mountains, and racetracks. and now much of that same advanced technology is found in the audi a4. with one notable difference... ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with available traffic jam assist. ♪ hey lmaybe let's play upl our the digital part.r job, but it's a manufacturing job. yeah, well ge is doing a lot of cool things digitally to help machines communicate, might want to at least mention that. i'm building world-changing machines. with my two hands. does that threaten you?

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26 past the hour. joining us now, senior fellow at the hoover institution, neil ferguson. his book, "kissinger." it's now out in paperback. good to have you on the show. >> you break down the election between complicaterss and simplifiers. >> he predicted there would be terrible simplifiers and trump is a terrible simplifier. the 21st century looks like it will have some but trump is more of a populist than a fascist. it's terrible complication that

encourages simplification and insight from me is when i downloaded policy papers from hillary clinton's website and read them all. >> how was that for you? >> well, it was actually disturbing. >> was it a disturbing weekend? >> it spoiled my weekend. up until that point i was fine. trump is dreadful and i'm going have to take a deep breath and support hillary clinton and then i read all of these policy papers and i thought is this it? is this the next maybe four to eight years? >> increased expenditure on infrastructure combined with increased taxation but above all increased regulation. i now know what the choice is. the choice is between snafu, more of the same situation or the trump option where we f it up beyond all recognition. >> we can go home now. >> a lot of people are attracted because they can't stand

anymore. >> he's a senior fellow at the hoover institute. >> that's the best i've ever seen it articulated. >> what a terrible choice we face. >> so tell me, will we survive? a lot of people come up and ask us if trump is president of the united states, will it be what andrew sullivan is he a neofascist? are we going to have brown shirts marching around washington, d.c. or will we survive four years? >> i read or reread phillip roth's book "the plot against america." it was a reality check. this isn't fascism. i said, look, i think, a, he's not a fascist. he's a populist. that has deep roots in american history. back in the late 19th century, candidates were against immigration and free trade and corrupt elites.

this was standard fare and blew itself out because these aren't great solutions to america's problems. restricting immigration, high tariffs, didn't work. you ended up with progressives coming along. >> general hayden was on our show last week saying the face of authoritarian populism. >> that's why he's appealing to the populists in power around the world. fascinating to not only go to russia where he is somebody he would love to see in the white house but go to china and say you must be so worried and they laugh and say we really like him. we can do business with trump. the authoritarian regimes look forward to a trump presidency. i said to liberal friends this summer, i said your worry is not a trump presidency. it's a successful trump presidency because there's a

scenario in the first year or so this could look to be going quite well especially if he focuses on foreign policy because the russians will hand him a deal on syria within the first 100 days and chinese will play shadow boxing over trade. >> what about giving nukes to saudi arabia or south korea. >> this is wildly reckless stuff. will it actually happen? this is the problem that makes it hard to predict what a trump presidency would be like. a lot of the things that he said on foreign policy have been wildly reckless. would he do them? my sense is he would be the chairman of the administration and delegate to the people that he brought into his cabinet. now, it could go horribly wrong. i was a never trump signatu signatureriosignature. you have to consider the scenario. this is post-brexit. i went through the brexit experience when up until the

night the results came out we were confident. >> you're still traumatized. >> 90% of britons age 65 and over turned out and voted to leave. you can see something similar in the u.s. where the turnout is really skewed and this makes the polls wrong and we wake up and it's november 9th and he's president. and then you have to imagine what would that actually be like? andrew's vision of a nazi america doesn't convince and it doesn't convince trump supporters. every time you say that, they say come on. it's not plausible. >> let's say he doesn't win and doesn't become president, is the president ripe and ready for another simplifier or just a guy that could elevate that message and that frustration? >> it's a lot about him. demagogues like that don't come along every year. if you watch him interact with

an audience, he's good at what he does. the trumpists will be there. how far will they constrained paul ryan doing the kind of deals he would be willing to do with hillary clinton. they could restrain him quite a bit. >> what were those two terms you gave us. >> a choice between snafu and fubar. you come up with lots of world war ii acronyms. the infantry came up with situation normal all f'd up and airmen came up with f'd up beyond all recognition. that's the choice america faces. >> thank you. we have learned something today. now we have something for what we learned. we're already there. >> very good to have you on the show. >> thank you so much. coming up, republican vice presidential nominee mike pence joins us live from the campaign trail in battleground pennsylvania. we'll be right back. ♪ i'm going to make this as simple as possible for you.

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coming up, donald trump said is best back at the republican national convention. >> i would like to thank the evangelical and religious community because i'll tell you what, the support that they've given me -- and i'm not sure i totally deserve it. >> deserve it. >> a new documentary explains the unusual alliance between religious voters and a man who actually supported planned parenthood.

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>> not all evangelicals are persuaded that trump is for them. for them trump is accelerating that move. he's forcing many members, especially younger ones, to confront basic questions about their identity and their beliefs and what role, if any, the conservative church should have in the republican party. >> speaking negativity about whole blocks of people as he has done about the latino community, about muslims, is not something that would jive with what i believe. >> i don't think i would vote for donald trump. >> would you vote for him? >> i would not vote for donald trump. absolutely not. >> a look at a new yahoo!

documentary by john ward. also with us, republican congressman sean duffy of wisconsin. congressman duffy is a trump supporter and member of trump's catholic advisory group. good to have you both onboard this morning. >> sean, let's begin with you. a lot of people surprised that donald trump picked up as much as the evangelical vote in the primary as he did, why did he? >> evangelicals have tried other options and it hasn't worked and tried donald trump. >> in the primary they had jeb and kasich, they had rubio. they had walker. they had a lot of different choices. >> great choices. they saw that as the same package that has been offered to them in prior elections that didn't really work for them. they were willing to take a

different path with bombastic and different donald trump. >> bombastic but also vulgar on the campaign trail. has a history of statements that would have destroyed any other republican candidate. why do they give donald trump a free pass they would give no other candidate? >> first of all, in the primary a lot of evangelicals were not with him as sean alluded to. but i think a lot of it does now come down to they don't feel like they have any options. for an older generation of evangelicals there's a large degree of fear about hillary clinton presidency. sean mentioned some of those issues. abortion and religious liberty. i think the point of what i've been reporting about is this is a minority of evangelicals. i'm not trying to exaggerate numbers here. i think among younger folks you have a sense that they don't feel as if america is the kingdom of god. don't believe in kings. believe in the kingdom. so they have a sense that

america and christianity are not the same thing. they have a little more flexi e flexibility to deal with things not going their way and not being moral majority. >> how do evangelicals reconcile donald trump's life. this is who he is. fame, money, women. all of the glitz and glamour. pro-choice for a long time. how do they reconcile what they believe with what he's believed for his entire life? >> i think they look at this as a choice of two. and they might not like donald trump's path. if one comes out and says i changed my position on abortion and changed my position on any number of issues they care about, i think that allows them to come back because they accept who ask for forgiveness and they repent. something else is happening here. this is just not about their faith. this is about their economics. this is about middle america.

this is about security and the border. he touches every other issue that they care about as well. so faith is part of it. but they haven't had a raise in 20 years. they are working as bill clinton said 60 hours a week trying to pay their mortgage and put food on their table and they appreciate someone who will be honest with them. they're sick of being lied to by american politicians. >> forgiving in the future for a long time? it's not what he's done in the past but things he says now. how do you reconcile that? it's not just a past. >> i have a choice of two. if mr. trump says things i don't agree with, do i think putin is a great guy? absolutely not. i think putin is a thug. i want to grow the economy. if you're going to give us more regulation and more taxes as opposed to mr. trump who says we're going to stop and pause

regulation and reduce it and streamline the tax code, that's the power of unleashing the american economy and help my constituents out. if you're going to defeat isis, do i want four more years of the last eight that failed my community? i don't want more of that. >> john, you talk about young evangelicals. talk about that. >> a guy in the film we talked to says our faith has been hijacked because for a long time evangelicals have been in lockstep with the republican party. i'm talking mostly younger white evangelicals here. i think trump is accelerating the sense of i'm not sure. >> something i say all the time i notice when i first got into congress in '94, young evangelicals would come and talk about abortion and talk about

family and they would talk about traditional things that others would talk about. by the time i left in 2001, i had a lot of younger christians in birkenstocks talking about aids in africa. they were talking about human trafficking. they were what i call matthew 25 christians. they were talking about feeding the poor. complete change just over six, seven, eight years and it seems that's only accelerated in the church over the past 15. >> there was two things going on there. one, they were watching the moral majority of the '70s, '80s and so on and thought that was combative and unattractive face to put forward and not effective. there was also an intellectual movement where they were looking at fundamentialism that had withdrawn from culture and they said that's not the right approach. we need to be in the world but not of the world. >> all right. >> one more thing, joe.

i think christians feel like there's been an infringement on their religious liberty. if you look at obamacare and ability to practice their faith, people want to feel free to practice the faith the way they see fit. that's why this country actually started 300 plus years ago. and when you have government attack your ability to practice your faith, i think they push back on that narrative. that's what barack obama has done to the christian faith. i think hillary clinton is going to be an extension of president obama and that's why they rejected that set of ideas and are willing to take an option for a guy who might not fit their values but might defend their faith. >> congressman sean duffy, thank you very much. john ward, thank you as well. new documentary for yahoo! news. still ahead, we're tracking hurricane matthew as it barrels from the bahamas toward florida. bill karins says that never in our country's history have forecasters predicted a hurricane to be this strong and along so much coastline. he gives us an update in just a

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new numbers out from eastern aleppo, one of the most dangerous spots in the world. since the cease-fire fell apart, 113 children have been slai according to the world health

organization. in total, 376 people have been killed in just the last two weeks. and the "wall street journal" editorial board writes a piece entitled "john kerry sends regrets" and they say in part this, if it's any consolation to the 275,000 souls trapped in aleppo, john kerry has regrets. that much is clear from a leaked recording of a conversation the secretary of state had with a group of syrian civilians engaged in humanitarian work during last week's u.n. general assembly. above all, he lamented that his diplomatic efforts to end syria's war were never backed by a credible threat of american military strikes. the secretary is right that president obama doomed whatever chances the u.s. had on shaping a better outcome in syria when mr. obama made clear that nothing, including chemical attacks against civilians, could induce him to deploy even modest force to ground bashar al

assad's air force or establish no-fly no-drive zones. then again, it's hard to credit mr. kerry as the skoerned voice of reason within the administration when until last week, he was the most vocal advocate of making common cause with moscow in syria. willie, this is -- this is going to be sort of like the rewanda where you could name other terrible past losses for presidencies. this could be obama's. >> there are war crimes being perpetrated every single day. in the two weeks since the cease-fire fell apart, intelligence has shown that red lines have been bombed, people waiting in lines at bakeries to get the scarce food there is in aleppo, those have been attacked. hospitals have been attacked, children have died. i just don't know how many more pictures the world has to see of a child face down on a beach leaving syria, a child bloody, a 5-year-old stunned in the book of an ambulance. we're moved by this images but

this point, 5 1/2 years in, it's not to say it's too late to do anything, but all the things that could have been done up to these five years, i think not just president obama but the world will come to regret them and there were be books written 50 year from now about what a travesty this was. >> we're a war-weary country. he came into his presidency hell-bent on addressing that. having said that, there are times, though, you have to act. >> obviously, we look back now and what a tragic mistake. 113 children. but if you wind the clock back a few years ago, hindsight is 20/20. if you average the average american, they would have lined up with obama at that time. but clearly, history is going to show that as a tragic mistake. >> other presidential news. libertarian presidential nominee gary johnson refused to produce the name of a major head of state yesterday when asked and made another statement about foreign policy that has some people wondering. in an interview with the "new

york times," he says he sees a moral equiv lnls between deaths caused overseas and the pass killing of civilians by president bashar al assad. saying sarcastically, we're so much better than all that. we're so much better than in afghanistan we bomb the hospital and 60 people are killed in the hospital. johnson was also asked if he knew the name of north korea's leader. he said, i knew. you want me to name the person? paused and then added, really? he declined the supply the name. >> it's time for him to go away. go away. you're an insult to the american public. >> that's our third option. >> coming up, fresh off his debate performance, veeptal nominee mike pence joins us. >> plus, hurricane matthew intensifying as it heads to florida. bill karins says historic damage is likely. we're tracking the path. keep it right here on "morning joe." and i e now participating in your mutual fund. we invested in your fund

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heroin overdoses are surging and meth overdoses in nevada, nevada. and you know what i said? you know what i said? i said, when i came out here, i said nobody says it the other way. it has to be nevada. and if you don't say it correctly, and it didn't happen to me, but it happened to a friend of mine, he was killed. >> yeah, so that's what you want to do, talk about heroin overdoses and drug epidemic. when you're talking to that audience, just pull back for a second. and then mock them on the way they pronounce their own state. willie, nevada or nevada? >> it's nevada.

>> well, that's what the people from nevada said. >> stop. good morning, everyone. >> more important to mock the people who say it wrong, you want to nail the pronunciation yourself. >> here's the rule. if they want to call it nevada, you call it nevada. it's just like if dick cheney wants to say his last name is cheney, chris matthews should stop calling him cheney, which he calls him cheney and has for a decade. it's kind of weird. >> like ji-na. >> exactly. >> longtime mad man donny deutsch. long time. >> donny "longtime" mad man. >> okay, donny old. >> political fodder for the "new york times," nicholas confessore is here. >> so -- >> we have new polling. can i just get right to it? >> jump into it and then let's

talk about it. would you like to do it that way or talk about it first and then let the people know what's going on. >> we're tracking the hurricane, which is -- oh, my gosh. look at this thing. bill karins is going to give us the complete update in a few minutes. >> whoa. that's going to be a category 5, right? >> all descriptions are calling for this to be devastating. we'll have a full update in just a few minutes. new polling to look at this morning. a national poll finds hillary clinton with a ten-point lead over donald trump. 50% to 40%. interestingly, when those same voters were asked to consider pence at the top of the ticket in a head to head with clinton, it was a dead heat. >> did you see the reverse of that? when they were asked if tim kaine were running against donald trump, what would it look like? it was like a 15-point lead for tim kaine. pretty crazy. >> in ohio, the gap has narrowed in the latest monmouth university poll. hillary clinton leads 44% to 42%. in most recent polls, it's been

trump holding a narrow lead in that state. >> so, go ahead. >> the "new york times" reports that donald trump has begun to slip in some key swing states. wiping out his bounce back in september and prompting concern among republicans in washington. according to the article, private polling by both parties shows an even worse drop. especially among independent voters, moderate republicans, and women. and it's a mixed picture in senate races for incumbent republicans. a new quinnipiac university poll shows senator marco rubio holding on to a four-point lead. >> that's a lot closer than it's been. >> he's been recently blowing out his challenger in f fund-raising. in north carolina, it's neck and neck. richard burr is tied at 46% with debra russ. in pennsylvania, pat toomey has opened up an eight-point lead over katie mcginty. until this poll, that race was extremely close. rob portman of ohio appears set

to walk away with his race in ohio. >> look at that number. >> he leads by 17 points. >> a couple things. pretty remarkable. first of all, the poll out of ohio, it's just pretty remarkable that rob portman is doing in what was once a swing state. that was expected to be tight. pennsylvania actually, you go to pennsylvania, pat toomey, one of my favorites in the senate, i'm all in. i love pat toomey. loveis politics. but he's not ahead by eight points. there have been three or four different polls, and nick, they're pretty close. i mean, this is a tight, tight race. but i don't think anybody is up by eight points in this race. >> portman is the outlier, you're right, because all around the country, you have seen these candidates are having a hard time peeling away and separating from trump. portman is the exception. he's peeling way away from trump. north carolina, if that poll is right, if she is winning north carolina, if the democratic

senate candidate is winning in north carolina, hillary clinton is the next president. you just can't have a trump win if he's losing in north carolina. >> so let's talk about these polls and what i see on the twitter machine, donny deutsch. you know, we were saying on monday, monday afternoon, tuesday, didn't have polls for another week. but when he was going after miss universe, i mean, this would be the equivalent of, let's say, you promoting a soup, getting campbell's soup and advertising it and then somebody eating campbell's soup on johnny carson and throwing up all over him. >> i was waiting, where is the soup thing going? >> people can sit around and say how can this happen? campbell's soup is not making the way it used to make the soup and we need a new advertising cam -- no, what's happening to donald trump we all predicted last week when he was fat shaming miuniverse and telling women in america that were 150 pounds that they had an

eating disorder. so i think everybody that a week ago was freaking out when colorado was tied saying donald trump is going to win, are now saying this race is over. could you as someone that roots against donald trump every day explain to everybody, there's an ebb and flow here. if trump has a pretty good debate sunday night, we're going to be tied again in a week. >> there is another thing thatkeep hanned. >> i guess the main thing is we may not be tied. this is not surprising at all. he had the worst week in the history of presidential campaigns. >> i think it's about where everybody ended up nationally, four or five, six points. two things can happen over this weekend. one is horribly this tragedy that's coming in the hurricane could actually -- i'm moving forward, help trump in that we all know that hillary is hunkered down preparing. what if trump on friday afternoon says i'm getting on my plane and i'm going to south florida, and has very, very special moments down in florida

with people who have been ravaged. and at the debate, coming off that and goes, look, this is somebody who sits behind closed doors and i touch the people. not saying to exploit the hurricane, but that could play to him. the thing that i still think will play against him is this woman stuff. i a stranj feeling at the debate there will be another name that will come up from hillary that we haven't heard or thought about. i think between now and election dale, and the one thing trump cannot recover, he recovers from the sleaze, he doesn't report from the hate stuff. there will be more women stuff to come and he doesn't recover from that. i will be shocked if between now and november 8th, thereerant three or four names of women we haven't thought or heard about that articulate the problem trump have as far as misogyny. i think that's what's going to continue to pound him. he can recover from the other stuff. >> here's the thing, though. hillary clinton is not the best person to deliver that message,

personally. for reasons that were drawn out by maureen dowd over the past year or two. but when she pokes donald trump and he does it himself, it's devastating. also, let's show this ad. it was part of -- it was part of another news read on women. i think you're right. i think this is the achilles heel. but it just fits in exactly where what you're saying right here. >> it's extremely powerful -- >> and again, using donald trump's own words instead of hillary clinton, which might have millennials and other people who remember the 1990s roll their eyes. take a look. >> i'd look her right in that fat, ugly face of hers. she's a slob. she ate like a pig. i person who is flat chested is very hard to be a ten. did she have a good body? no. did she have a fat [ bleep ]?

absolutely. >> do you treat women with respect? >> i can't say that either. >> what an absolute brilliant ad. and the clinton campaign is using across the platform, they broke that ad friday before the debate, knowing what they would put out at the debate, knowing the videos that would happen. >> so all of us who have daughters look at that ad and flinch. just because the ad is very well done. and again, the most powerful -- >> women also look at the ad see themselves in it as the little girls. >> right, and again, it's his words. it's not her lecturing. it's his words used against him. it's pretty masterful. >> all used strategically, as donny said, you put that out before the debate knowing where you want the week to go. she couldn't have asked for a better gift. when they set the trap at the debate, they didn't imagine it would carry on for a week. maybe a day, but he dug in and dug in. it's what he does. it will be interesting to see what the trap this weekend is,

on sunday night. what do they put in play that they hope eats up another week with only four weeks left in the campaign. >> if i'm hillary clinton, it's another story about another woman. this is -- this is where the race will be won or lost. >> yesterday in nevada, donald trump was asked about his comments about women. take a look. >> do you understand the concern from parents of younger girls that some of the wording that you have used to talk about attractiveness or unattractiveness might make it more difficult for girls who are struggling with their body image and the pressure to be model perfect? >> sure, i do. a lot of this is done in the entertainment business. i'm being interviewed for "apprentice" long before i thought in terms of running for office. a lot of that was done for the purpose of entertainment. when people hear it, there's nobody, i can tell you this, there's nobody, nobody, that has more respect for women than i do. >> are you trying to tone it down now? >> not a question of trying.

it's very easy. you know, you're in the entertainment business, you're doing "the apprentice" one of the top shows on television, and you say things differently for a reason. now it's a much different world. >> the same thing -- >> are people going to buy that? >> i don't know. i remember a time a while back he said to me, boy, i wish i hadn't done those howard stern interviews. he said if i had known then what i know now, you go on there, and of course, it's whatever, but what he said,gon, in the light of day in the middle of a presidential campaign, is absolutely searing. >> look, it's almost an apology there. almost. like it's that close to saying i shouldn't have said that, but instead he said i played it for laughs. it was a joke. i thought it was funny and i did it for that reason. i'm not sure that's going to really fly. >> which will be very offensive, willie, to other people for other reasons. i the same raciale he used about

the iraq war comments on howard stern. th campaign said he was a private citizen, talking to howard stern. you have to dismiss it. that's his entire life. are we supposed to discard everything he has said and believed and talked about for 69 years and only take into account what he said for the last year, year and a half. >> especially when that celebrity is what's gotten him to where he is right now. you take the good with the bad. and there's no doubt that some of the comments regarding the women, especially what he did last week on his own, when his staff wanted him to move off it, was so devastating. i think is one of the reasons we're seeing the polls we're seeing. think about this. donald trump had his campaign undermined by a muslim family. >> yeah. >> a muslim gold star mother. and a venezuelan beauty queen. i think those -- those episodes in this campaign have done more to damage him than any others.

>> "the apprentice" is a reality show, right? >> let's use the world reality -- >> i'm saying, people accepted that. many of them. it was highly rated. >> i did three seasons of "the aprete apprenti apprentice." >> the lowest rated seasons. >> of course. but i have to say in a lot of conversations i had with donald, he does talk about women a lot. what you see is what you get. the thing with womenlso come sunday night, hillary clinton's two achilles heels, the foundation and e-mails, there's nobody who is going to stand up and say my name is mrs. e-mail. where he is going to come face-to-face possibly with an overweight woman or a muslim, his crimes are against -- not humanity, but against people. where hillary's crimes are nor institutional. it's going to be hard for him to look in the face. >> still ahead, governor mike pence joins us live to talk

about his debate performance and the 2016 race. first, bill karins with a check on hurricane matthew, as the storm leaves a trail of destruction through the caribbean. bill. >> mika, one of the most dire forecasts i have ever made in my career. that goes back over 20 years. this is almost like an andrew, katrina forecast. a sandy-type forecast where we're predicting just extreme devastation and destruction, possibly catastrophic on the entire east coast of florida, with the exception of the miami area. it's a close call for you. here's the latest on the storm. it's a category-3. winds still at 125. it hasn't jumped up to category 4 yet, but the pressure keeps dropping and we expect it to go higher into the category 4 category. here's the forecast path. late tonight, near west palm beach, and right up through the space coast, through northeast florida, through the day on friday. just horrific what it's going to do to the east coast of florida. could anything change? these are our little computer models that are telling us. this is the hurricane center's forecast.

all the squiggly lines are the different computer models that tell us what could happen. they're all in excellent agreement, taking the center of the storm to the port st. lucie area, maybe possibly vero beach. the storm is wide enough and big enough that the winds extend 40 miles from the center. if that is the center, that would put the eye almost down to ft. lauderdale. that's where the destruction would be. it's like that wide of an area and then it goes straight up the coast tonight into tomorrow morning. there's a lot of excellent agreement we're in for a very historic storm. as far as our computer models go, here's one that shows the predictions. you don't want to be in the eyewall. the eye itself is where the calm is. the damaging winds are in the northern portion, the northeast portion, and hurricane winds on the back side. that's 7:00 p.m., and then by 11:00 p.m., the storm could make landfall from west palm beach to ft. pierce. still some indecision where the landfall is, but historic destruction. the worst of the storm is almost right over the top of nassau. i want to bring in tammy leitner

with an update. winds are picking up. you're 20 to 30 miles from the center now. >> i, bill, incredible here. hurricane matthew has definitely made landfall here in nassau. we have been watching this over the last few hours. it's just increasing to pummel the area. take a look here. we're protected where we are, but if you look down there, the winds are more than 100 miles per hour. it's blowing the rain sideways. it's whipping the trees. we have seen roof tiles hurled through the air like weapons. they punctured the roofs of other buildings. trees have gone down. roads are flooded, power lines are down. people are boarded up their houses and their businesses, but we have seen some of those boards fly by. some of the residents have evacuated, but the airports are now closed so anybody that's on the island here is not getting out. and you know, every 20 minutes or so, bill, we're hearing loud explosions. we're assuming these are transformers, just a little while ago, we lost power. it's unclear how many other houses, buildings, parts of the

island still don't have power. bill. >> have you heard reports about storm surge? the worst should be over nassau kurb currently? >> we have not yet, but if that storm surge happens, keep in mind, nassau is a pretty flat area. this whole island is flat. if this storm surge happens at 15 feet, this will completely wipe out all the houses here. everybody is extremely concerned and bracing for it. >> what you're seeing there in nassau is going to last about another 12 hours. thank you, tammy. final point i make is with this storm, the winds for the east coast damage, historic. as far as the storm surge, also possibly historic. 6 to 9 feet from melbourne to savannah. this is about a worst case scenario forecast as i have ever made for a hurricane making landfall, and this will last about 48 hours starting tonight, thursday night around 8:00 p.m. until saturday afternoon. more "morning joe" when we come back. an opening night on broadway is kind of magic.

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in pennsylvania, the republican vice presidential nominee, governor mike pence of indiana. governor, it's always great talking to you. >> call me mike. >> especially after you won the debate in the mind of many, and certainly in the mind of donald trump. donald trump won the debate. so it's very exciting. but talk about if you will, the disconnect that a lot of people are seeing the next day between what you said factually and what donald trump said in the past, because the feeling is that you were talking for the republican party, that you and i grew up in. but then donald trump doesn't represent a lot of the views that even you spoke of that

night. >> well, joe, first and foremost, thanks for having me on. good to be with you all. if i may, just let me say that certainly our hearts are all in florida and in haiti and the areas being affected by the advancing hurricane matthew. i just encourage people to keep people in your home state in their prayers, and to be supportive of the red cross and other organizations that are going to be challenged in the days ahead as that category-4 storm comes ashore. but going back to your statement, i would just tell you, you know, i'm very humbled when people say i won the debate. i'll leave that to others, but i think -- i do think donald trump won the debate. i think it was donald trump's vision to make america great again that i was talking ability at that table. it was donald trump's policies that have motivated a movement all across this country that you see in these enormous crowds that come out and stand with him

and the hundreds of people who come out in rallies, the likes of which i had yesterday in virginia and here in pennsylvania. i was humbled to have a chance to talk about his vision and laying out the choice in this campaign, which i honestly think is really a choice between whether we're going to continue to go down the hill to a weaker america at home and abroad, a stifled american economy or whether we're going to plant our feet like we did in 1980, turn around and go back up in the direction of a stronger america on the world stage, a stronger military, and a more vibrant economy and upholding our constitution. it's just that clear of a choice, and republicans, joe, are rallying around donald trump's vision. >> that's what i wanted to ask you. i wanted to ask you about republicans. obviously were a lot of never trumpers who were heartened by your performance the other night, but they're still not voting for donald trump. obvio obviously, for the republican party to have a nominee elected

president, the whole party needs to come together. first of all, why is it so hard for donald trump to make that sell to a percentage of the republican party? secondly, what do you tell them this morning on why they need to put their differences in the past and get behind trump? >> well, i couldn't be more grateful to see people like senator ted cruz and others who are coming alongside this campaign, who had not previously endorsed donald trump. i literally hear from people every day. i'm on a bus tour, a four-state bus tour that we took off on yesterday morning right after the debate, and i hear people coming up every day, this movement is growing each and every day. and it's because frankly, i think, you know, you had a primary, i mean, how many people were there, 100, 150 people on the stage when it thing started out. it was incredible. like they say in nascar, rubbing is racing. you bang some fenders. there's a little bit of sore feelings, but donald trump came through it, and came through it because he has connected with

the people of this country, with their aspirations, with their frustrations, like no one, joe, since ronald reagan. i think it's that vision. i think it's his personal courage, his resilience that's drawing more and more people to this campaign every day. i couldn't be more honored to be part of it. >> don't disagree with that connection at all. i want to ask you because you say his vision and paul aces won the debate. during the debate, you deflected a lot of things donald trump said that were presented to you by tim kaine. i would like to ask you about his vision and policies. deportation force and the muslim ban. can you please clarify those policies? >> well, i think donald trump has already clarified them, mika. that was a kind of interesting to me that they rolled out that big term, deportation force. we have a deportation force in america. it's called immigrations and customs enforcement. when donald trump laid out that

plan to end illegal immigration in arizona, he said, look, we're going to build a wall, secure the border, expand our immigrations and customs enforcement personnel, give them the resources and tools to do the job that the law requires them to do. we're going to get criminal aliens out of the country first. we're going to get people to leave the country who are supposed to have left because their visas were overstayed, then we're going to reform the imdpragz system. i think the reason why for the first time in history the immigrations and customs enforcement union has endorsed in the presidential campaign and endorsed my running mate is because he's articulated a vision that they know works and to provide the kind of resources necessary. >> so if the deportation force is existing constructs, what about the muslim ban? can you clarify that? >> donald trump has clarified that repeatedly. that is that the position of our campaign is in the interest of the safety and security of the

people of the united states that we are going to suspend immigration from countries that have been compromised by terrorism. countries in regions of the world like syria that have literally been overrun by terrorist influence, by isis, countries in africa -- >> not a ban on all muslims? >> of course not. we're talking about areas of the world, territories and specifically countries that have been so compromised by terrorism that we can't know for certain who those people are. germany just a couple weeks ago arrested three more serious refugees for their -- for being involved in terrorist planning operations. the paris attacks were organized by two syrian refugees. the reason why donald trump and i are committed to suspending the syrian refugee program that hillary clinton wants to grow by 550% is because as the fbi said, we can't know for certain in that war-torn country who these

people are. so let's establish safe zones in the area, particularly with what's happening in aleppo, we have got to take action immediately to get those families, especially those children, out of harm's way, out of the reach of the assad regime. >> got a couple more quick questions. willie geist is in, and i know you want to talk to willie. >> good to see you. thanyou for your time. you sort of anticipated my question with the end of your answer there. we have been talking this morning about the ongoing atrocity that is syria and the united states and the failure of the world as it stands by and watches this happen every day. can you provide the american people some clarity this morning, because this really is top of the list in terms of foreign policy for what i think this country is worried about right now. you said at the debate the other night that the united states should be, quote, prepared to use military force. what would that look like to you and a presidential trump specifically? >> well, willie, i couldn't agree with you more about the humanitarian crisis that's

unfolding before our eyes. it really begins with -- it's important to remember, hillary clinton said that a reset with russia was her number one priority as secretary of state. and after that, russia invaded ukraine, and we have seen russia come in and this alliance with the assad regime, their new and renewed relationship with iran, and now the barbaric violence that they're supporting against humanitarian efforts and the marshaling of ground forces on the edge of aleppo is simply -- it's simply unacceptable. what we need to do, what donald trump has called on, is let's establish with the international community has already called for, let's establish safe zones so that people in syria that are in harm's way can move out of harm's way. let's make sure that they have an evacuation route that is secured. but to do that, willie, we've got to be prepared to use military resources, whether it's a no-fly zone or more direct

military action, to preserve that exit route and to create that safe zone. that's what donald trump's called for. that's what i was referring to the other night in the debate. and my heart just breaks for more than a quarter of a million people that at this very moment are trapped in the city of aleppo, and you know, i'm a candidate, i'm a public person, i'm a dad, though. my daughter is just a couple steps away. you see these images of these kids, 100,000 children in aleppo. we have to move. we have to move now. and that begins with a safe zone, and putting the might of american military behind creating and preserving that. >> all right, mike, thank you. >> governor mike pence, thank you. >> thank you so much. always good to see you and talk to you. greatly appreciate it. >> hold on. we're going to talk about -- i'm going to read what you wrote. >> no, no, no. >> let me read what you wrote about him. hold on, hold on.

let me read what you wrote about him. give it to me. come on. come on. you always say people need to be transparent. >> i am stunned by how good he is. >> i was about to say, i have to tell you, i watched him the other night, and he clearly won the debate. >> hold on. let me read this again. >> i am stunned, mika writes, by how good he is. >> no, i don't agree with him, and i actually don't think he's actually -- it's amazing. >> qualifiers, left winger. >> where he really got me, and look, i'm the most pro-choice guy in the world, but the way he articulated elegantly his pro-life stance was, to me, so genuine and as somebody i couldn't disagree with more, i think he's very strong, and as you talked to death yesterday, that's your lead guy in 2020. i was really impressed. even the thing he's being criticized on, the way he deflected all the trumpisms. >> by the way, he said, willie,

there's not going to be any deportation force that we don't have right now, and there is no muslim ban anymore. it's specific countries. and when i said, so you're not banning all muslims? goodness, no. >> goodness, no. just for people, he's on a window. he had to leave. but i think one of the headlines there is he said we need military force now. we have to do something now, create safe zones. they may include a no-fly zone. that's not what donald trump has been saying over the course of the campaign. >> but he will now. >> hillary clinton supporter senator claire mccaskill, she's good. she joins us next. >> go cards. >> she's ready. >> she's great. is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work that blazes the path to yo passions?

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all right, so i'm so good. so glad, so glad we could have claire mccaskill on here. talk about a story that we were all talkingith row now around the table, that's kim kardashian robbed in paris. >> she doesn't care about that. >> your take, claire? >> claire joining us now. >> how are you? first of all, somebody wrote a really nasty tease about the cards. i want you to know, we love the cardinals. >> and we love you. >> and we love you. so we're very angry. we're especially angry that the giants continue to move forward instead of the cards. >> bumgarner was unbelievable,

wasn't he. like when he has to, you can't get a hit off the guy. he's an amazing pitcher in stress. it's really something. and good luck against cleveland. it's cleveland's your guys, good luck to the red sox. >> if we could talk baseball for one more minute. you look at organizations, and i just love -- you know, nick saban, at this point, alabama wins all the time, so it's not really exciting, oh, great, how much are they going to win by? what intrigues me by alabama is nick saban and the organization he's built. what does he do that separates him from everybody else. on a larger scale over decades, you have to sit and look at the cardinal organization and the giant organization right now. again, this isn't about sports. this is about management. >> right. >> and you just wonder, what is it about those two organizations that personify excellence year in and year out, and how do we translate to business, how do we

translate to churches, how do we translate that to government? >> and frankly, if you want to look at an equivalency is whether or not a political party is worrying about state legislatures at the same time as the presidency. >> great point. >> it's about making sure that you have the talent coming up. it's making sure that farm organization is as robust as what you're doing in the dugout when it's time to play professional baseball. so i think the organization is amazing. and you know, the fan base is pretty amazing. i think we were in the top five again in terms of attendance in st. louis. this is the first time in six years the cardinals have not made it to post season play. it's pretty quiet in st. louis compared to most octobers, but i am in awe of what the cubs have done and it's going to be an amazing world series. >> pretty remarkable. i guess you could say, again, using the baseball analogy, what you just said, the republican

party over the past six years have had the greatest farm league in the history of politics. they just can't get above aaa. they can't win the world series. so we'll see if that changes this year. >> part of that is who they're picking for their starting pitcher. he ain't no bum gardener, if you don't mind me saying. donald trump is not the kind of leader that reflects the values of our country. i think that's why they're struggling. >> so let's start there. are you concerned your candidate isn't doing better given what you just said about donald trump? >> no, because people in this country, there's a big part of the american public that wants to blow up the status quo. i mean, obviously, metaphorically, they want to blow up the status quo, and donald trump represents someone who they believe can do that because he is so bombastic and frankly, in my opinion, very irresponsible. playing to those emotions. but i understand it.

you know, our democracy is messy sometimes because it's founded on the principle of compromise. when you get a political system that doesn't reward compromise, which is what we have now, it becomes pretty dysfunctional. and it's frustrating for those who are trying to find compromise, and i know it's really frustrating for the american people. >> kasie. >> you tweeted when we faced this controversy over miss universe, the democratic women senators have talked and we're concerned about donald's weight. campaign stress? we think a public daily weigh-in is called for. wondered how this tweet came to be. do you think donald trump is telling the truth about his weight? >> you know, frankly, it was just a joke. a bunch of us were sitting around at lunch. women senators, and we were talking about how outrageous he is about his fat shaming and how he objectifies women and has his entire life. you don't -- you don't do something for 69 years and then

all of a sudden once you get mike pence trying to explain away everything you have said and stood for, it doesn't work. so we were laughing about how bad he was, which has a serious side, and we thought this tweet would make a pointed joke about how inappropriate he is about women and how they look. >> senator mccaskill, it's willie geist. good to see you. obviously, your state of missouri probably will go red because it has for the last 20 years in presidential elections. what do you say to all the voters in your state as you travel, who are for donald trump? you have been obviously a vocal opponent of his for some time now and a supporter of hillary clinton. what do you tell them as you listen to their concerns and that they believe donald trump will be a better solution than hillary clinton? >> well, i try to make sure people think about what a donald trump presidency would be like. this is someone who is not listening to anyone. you know, i feel for mike pence. you know, it's got to be really hard to try to explain away what

donald trump says and does. and you know, he really -- this is a man who, his advisers, my colleagues in the senate say, oh, claire, he'll surround himself with good people. he's not paying attention to the people he surrounds himself with. he thinks this is a dictatorship. he doesn't understand he can't get anything done unless he works cooperatively with others. and compromises. and by the way, hillary clinton gets that. she's done it. over and over and over again, she's worked with republicans in congress to actually accomplish things. and i try to explain to them that just because he says these outrageous things doesn't mean our constitution would allow him to do them. >> do you understand why they like donald trump and why their fears about their lives and their insecurities about what is happening in their lives could be better addressed by trump than hillary clinton? >> the one thing donald trump does well is he plays to those fears. and he is very adroit at using

the media and saying things that he knows will gin up those folks. i have to believe in my heart that's not the majority of america. i think the majority of america, even though hillary clinton is not a bright and shiny new object, she's been in the public eye for decades and wears the scars that comes with being in the crosshairs of the republican attack machine, i really do believe that if people reflect on it, they will realize that she's the one who is going to bring stability. not somebody who says and does the things that donald trump says and does. >> senator claire mccaskill, thank you very much. >> thank you, claire. we love having you on. >> and we're back in just a moment with much more "morning joe." gilman: go get it, marcus. go get it. ...coach gilman used his cash rewards credit card from bank of america to earn 1% cash back everywhere, every time. at places like the batting cages. ♪ [ crowd chee ] 2% back at grocery stores and now at wholesale clubs. and 3% back on gas. which helped him give his players something extra.

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you ever see hillary clinton when she wants to talk tough about putin? they say, donald trump loves putin.

i don't love -- i don't hate, we'll see how it works. we'll see. maybe we'll have a good relationship. maybe we'll have a horrible relationship. maybe we'll have a relationship right in the middle. i can say this. if we got along with russia and russia went out with us and knocked the hell out of isis, that's okay with me, folks. that's okay with me. >> all right. joining us now, former dod official and former executive director of the wmd commission, dr. evelyn farkas. also with us, "time" magazine reporter karl vick. he contributed to the new cover story, whoever saves one life saves all of humanity. >> dr. farkas, we obviously have all had our doubts about vladimir putin in the west for some time. but i think even america's top foreign policy experts are shocked by the brutality and the

inhumanity he has actually shown toward the people of aleppo. >> it's highly cynical. i mean, we shouldn't be that surprised because the russians actually did this within the russian federation, the way they executed the war in chechnya in the '90s. we didn't cover it that much, but they used similar kind of raisz the city and get the people to capitulate tactics. >> killing children, starving children. it's vladimir putin's policy to starve women and children in aleppo. >> this time, it's more precise than what they did before because they're targeting hospital said. they're targeting medical personnel. they hit a united states convoy with humanitarian materials there, health care, aid, assistance, food, et cetera. it's highly cynical, what they're trying to do is basically get the people to capitulate, and i can go on and on about this, but the europeans ought to be a little more alarmed because there's over half a million people, about 300,000 people still in aleppo.

they want those people to capitulate and probably leave aleppo. they being the syrians, the russians, and the iranians. >> your remarkable cover story, great writing, but also incredible photographs is what's left behind after the syrian government and the russians help to destroy the city of aleppo. you talk about this group, the white helmets who are doing what they can. >> syria, it's hard to follow the plot. so many players. just at the beginning, it was the people rising against the regime, and then it became this incredible civil war, incredibly comples. you want good guys, they wear white hats. these are the white helmets. it's civil defense. it's syrians who are still in aleppo, who are still in rebel-held areas going in to save people after air strikes because only the russians and the assad side has air power. and they roll out barrel bombs, cluster bombs. most of the casualties, we talk about isis, some great multiple of the casualties are caused by the assad regime.

>> i heard eight times, eight times. >> last year, eight times. it's imprecise, but these are the people who run into -- these are the first responders, the people running into the towers. and they're syrians. that, i think, is what's quite important. while the world stands by and wrings its hands, these are people who are saving each other. and they're also forming what assad really doesn't want, which is an alternative government. they're showing that syrians can govern themselves, that they're not necessarily the pawns of islamic ideologues or anyone but themselves. it's really quite inspiring example. >> dr. farkas, we had mike pence on a few minutes ago, asked for the trump plan to do something about syria. he said we have to create safe spaces. >> oh, sounds like secretary clinton's plan. >> which might include no-fly zones. et cetera, et cetera. is that viable at this point? five 1/2 years on, can they

still be done? >> yes, so this is the thing. a lot of people like to kind of create this impression that it's five and a half years in, there's nothing we can do. there's always something we can do. >> well, that starts with the obama administration who waited five and a half years. you have john kerry fighting to actually do something. >> yes, so today, we can do something. to create a safe zone, while it's not easy and there is military risk involved, it would be the first step toward alleviating the humanitarian suffering. it's not solving the problem on day one. it's just starting to create the conditions that make itedesier to solve the problem. and other people, there's a great expert who gave me a list of the good guys on the batfield. so not the aid guys, the guys coming in to save civilians, but the guys fighting. key can also help the fighters to create negotiations for peace at the table by helping to put pressure on the bad guys. >> why isn't it happening? >> because we're at the end of the presidential cycle. >> here's where i say let's call

on congress. congress, they say they're interested in doing something about syria. yes, it's a lame duck congress, but they still have power. so they ought to be called to account. they ought to be doing something. i will give them some credit because they have a sanctions bill and that's port putting economic pressure on syria, russia, and iran is also important. but there are good guys, guys saving lives, the good fighters on the ground, if you will, and there are thing said we can do to create the opportunity for peace eventually. >> quickly, talk about the dangers that the good guys wearing the white hats face every day from assad. >> they're targeted. the hospital they take people to are targeted. they're doing these two taps where we used to see in it iraq where an explosion occurs, they go in to help people, there's another explosion. >> and they just targeted their centers as well. >> they're hitting the white helmet administrative center. >> we showed the full screen, that 113 children, 113 children.

>> 300 have died. >> just since the 23rd. >> all right, karl vick as well, thank you very much. our coverage is going to continue all day, by the way, on msnbc of hurricane matthew, which is headed toward florida and south carolina. it's a huge story. we'll be all over it. stephanie ruhle picks up our coverage after a quick break. ch. sprint? i'm hearing go things about the network. we're talking within all e nea 1% differencet now. in reliability of each other. and, sprint saves you 50% on most current national carrier rates. save money on yo phone bill, invest it inour small siness. sprintl help you adde customers and cut your costs. switch your business to sprint and save 50% on most current verizon, at&t andnd-mobile rates. don't let a 1% difference cost you twice as much. whoooo! for people with hearing loss, visit sprintrelay.com.

afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choe. the east and the west armi. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautifuto me.

good morning. everyone. i'm stephanie ruhle. we have breaking news. a track of destruction. hurricane matthew plowing towards florida on a path of historic portions, set to be at least a category-4 as it hits almost all of florida's east coast. >> this is serious. don't take a chance. this will kill you. time is running out. >> the track is a grim one. 2 million people already evacuated. >> smarter this to do is board it up and pray. >> matthew pounding the bahamas right this moment with gusts of 150 miles per hour. >> northern edge of this hurricane is just pounding the island. the wind and the rain is incredible. >> millions are boarding up, getting ready, and getting out as the historic storm roars ashore today. plus, in politics, round two. trump and clinton gearing up for the next debate, as each claims to have won the vp