heard on the bus. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. we're following a potential bombshell in the presidential race with big implications for sunday's debate if not the election itself. nbc news obtained audio from 2005 of donald trump miking lewd comments about women. it was during a press tour and he was talking to former "access

hollywood" anchor billy bush. in the first clip trump talks about a woman he tried to have sex with. >> i moved on her, actually. i moved on her and i failed. i'll admit it. >> whoa. >> i did try and -- she was married. no, no, nancy, i moved on her heavily. i took her out furniture shopping. she wanted to get furniture. i moved on her like a [ bleep ]. i couldn't get there. she was married. all of a sudden i see her, she has the big phony [ bleep ], she's totally changed her look. >> the second clip in the same conversation on that bus, donald trump talks about how he gets away behaving with women. let's listen. >> i gotta use some tic-tacs in case i start kissing her. i'm automatically attracted to beautiful women. i start kissing them. when you're a star, they let you do it, grab them by the

[ bleep ]. >> in a statement donald trump said, this was locker room banter, a private conversation that took place many years ago. bill clinton said far worse to me on the golf course. but not even close. i apologize if anyone was offended. the clinton campaign is also responding, a clinton spokesman said in a statement, quote, this is horrific. we cannot allow this man to become president. joining me is katy tur and andrea mitchell. let's start with katy tur in your reporting. you've been covering this candidate for a long time now and during the course of the year, how does this cap the story? where does this come from and take us to? >> we heard a lot with these allegations over the course of this campaign season. i was talking to somebody even today who said they've heard much worse from donald trump in private company when they were with him. the issue was nobody was ever able to authenticate this, to hear ploof frankly that donald trump said words like this.

the campaign in the past said when he's spoken about women on the howard stern show saying it's hard to be a ten if you're flat chested, they've written it off and donald trump himself has written it off, saying he used to be an entertainer, this was part of an act, part of a show. there was a separate personality involved here. this was a conversation supposed to be a private conversation that was captured on a hot mike. he didn't think these sort of wores would get out there. they're certainly more graphic, explicit, lewd than we have heard in the past from donald trump. even though we've heard outrageous statements from him when it comes to women in the past. i will say this, there's been a number of articles outlining donald trump's alleged sexist behavior towards women, his misogyny towards women. there was the ap article that interviewed 20 different cast and crew members from "the apprentice" all talking about

donald trump's sometimes inappropriate language towards women that were on set during the time of that show. i spoke to somebody on that crew who confirmed that story. there was also "the new york times" story earlier this year, back from may, talking about donald trump reacting, interacting with women at mar-a-lago. at the time, ivanka trump was on "cbs this morning." she said my father is not a groper. this certainly is something the campaign does not want to hear. it's coming at a bad time for them, 32 days out until the election. he has a problem with women, a massive gender gap. he needs to find a way to connect with suburban white women. it's hard to see how this helps. >> let me go to ruth marcus and then andrea mitchell. it's friday. it's friday. right before the big debate. what everybody called the cliff he could fall off.

in other words, a very precipitous time for donald trump. it's not like he's in solid shape right now. >> and i think that katy ended with what i find to be the most offensive and troubling and damaging to donald trump piece of this. which is, he's not just on jek objectifying women, he's talking about his using his own power, his own celebrity and his own wealth, his own star power in order to be able to sexually assault women. he can grab them by their private parts, he says, because he's a star. so his apology, which we're a little surprised to see anything from donald trump that approaches an apology, it is going to have to get a lot better, and i think certainly on sunday, but probably before sunday. because if any -- he says "if anybody was offended," tell me who wasn't offended listening to this. >> and i think it's going to raise questions of the private versus the public. even though we heard tales of this, you only believe what you discover for yourself. people will watch these tapes, listen to these tapes. they'll do it all night, at parties tonight, at bars along

route 40 tonight. guys will be talking about this, this willing on all the tv shows. here we have the debate coming up. and the women on that panel in that town hall are going to brick this up. the men will too. >> the timing could not be worse, men and women, offensive language. i can't even describe, you know, the kind of, i guess, barroom language. i can't even -- i don't know men who talk that way. >> actually, i don't either for a long time. i do remember that kind of talk about 40 years ago but that is pretty much out of date. >> that said, you know who has the most immediate political problem in addition to donald trump? the speaker of the house. paul ryan is making his first public appearance tomorrow in wisconsin with donald trump. on the same stage. and this goes against everything that is this -- this figure of rectitude, paul ryan's family believes in. >> what's mike pence going to do? i've noticed that jeff flake is quickly separating himself.

the republican guy from arizona. >> he has already. >> but he's saying, here proves everything i've said about the guy. >> i think this is going to require much more from trump than we've seen. because if there are men who talk this way, and i don't doubt that there are, here's the difference. he's a man who is "a," on tape and "b," on the presidential ticket. and you cannot let this stand. he is going to have to say, this was wrong, i -- this does not reflect who i want to be. and i am not going to behave that way. i think they will blame the media. don't you think they'll attack the media for distributing this? >> i think they will, why not? you have to attack somebody. and i think this is going to escalate. i expect he will now make good on his claim that bill clinton speaks worse and he's going to go after the clintons again. he's going to escalate, i assume. >> i guess there's a nuclear option, because he's talked about the power of the explosive and destructive power of going nuclear. and i just don't see how that is going to help him in this circumstance.

>> well, here's tim kaine, who is a really nice guy, he responded to the audio today. let's watch and listen to what he has to say. >> it's just -- i mean, it makes me sick to my stomach. i don't like to even say the words that he's used in the past when he calls women pigs, dogs and slobs. i didn't like saying it on stage the other night with my mom and wife sitting in the front row. but this is behavior that's just outrageous. and so that there would be a news story that would have more statements like this, of this kind, i mean, gosh, i'm sad to say that i'm not surprised. i should be. i should be surprised and shocked. i'm sad to say that i'm not. >> katy tur, you have more on this. i was wondering along the lines of, will there be an escalation now? will he fight fire with more fire? >> you know, that is the question. i know after the first debate, the campaign did not want donald trump to go there when talking about bill clinton or bringing up the marriage or bringing up any of his infidelities. they didn't think it was on their -- they didn't think it behooved them to do so.

remember, he does have a gender gap. we keep talking about this. he is trying to appeal to suburban women, who could end up deciding this election. and finding and blaming hillary clinton for her husband's infidelities was not a route that they wanted to go down. you didn't hear them talk about it during the debate. he sort of stayed away from it, even though he brought it up a little bit at the end. he was not going to talk about it in the week after that, but he did bring it up when he felt backed into a corner, when hillary clinton's team was hammering him for alicia machado and talking about his tweets in the middle of the night. now kellyanne conway telling cnn that he certainly could go there with the bill clinton stuff. now trump is saying he's not going to go there with the bill clinton stuff. my question is, when he feels backed into a corner, is that when we see donald trump bring up the more personal attacks against the clintons? yes, usually that is the case. when he feels like he has nowhere else to go. when he feels like he needs to

defend himself. >> katy tur, thank you, as always, great reporting. thank you. coming up, the second debate coming sunday just two days for now, how will tonight's news shake up the race and how can trump overcome something like this politically? boy, they are going to think hard on this. do they escalate or apologize pore? this is "hardball," the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball." newly released audio recordings of donald trump from 2005 have prompted the candidate himself to issue a rare statement which for the first time in this campaign included something close to an apology for past remarks. republicans this evening are condemning trump for his words. senator kelly ayotte said his comments are totally inappropriate and offensive. another said, america deserves far bet ater than donald trump. jeb bush says, as the grandfather of two precious girls, i find that no apology

can excuse away donald trump's reprehensible comments degrading women. >> thank you for coming onnen to tonight. how does trump deal with this, michele bachmann? >> that's actually the point. hillary clinton wanted to make sure that this is what america would be talking about, so they did their opposition research. this is what they had. but quite honestly, i think that when it comes to sunday night, you're going to hear donald trump talking about the issues, no matter how this comes up, she wanted to make sure anderson cooper or someone in the audience brings this up. quite honestly, she had a really bad news day herself. she has a lot of bad news with what's coming out about the contents of her speech to wall street that aren't going to work well for her base. more importantly, more of the

document dump happened today. we found out, for instance, she kicked off her state department, her government security detail off of her government plane and instead put clinton foundation people on her plane. this doesn't look real well for her. she has to change the narrative and that's what she's trying to do. so it's pretty predictable and if she wants to talk about scandals, sunday can be about scandals but quite honestly, it's got to be about us, the american people, because this is what we've got to look at, how are we all going to have better lives. i think that's probably where donald trump is going to take the debate on sunday night. >> where do you get -- where did you get the information, it may be true, but where did you get the information, congresswoman that hillary clinton did this, the stuff on the audio tapes. how do you know she did it? >> experience. >> how do you know? >> experience. >> what do you mean, experience? >> this is how the whole thing

works. >> you're laughing but how do you know? >> is this a shock that on friday afternoon there will be a story to make sure this is what anderson cooper talks about on sunday morning? of course this is how it's done. >> of course. >> this is predictable as the day is long. this is her narrative she's tried to feed the media because she doesn't want anyone to talk about, i mean, the honest to goodness fact that in realtime, over a four-year period, she betrayed america's most sensitive national security secrets to her enemy. >> you're throwing all that in there now. >> that's not what she wants to talk about. >> you don't know, in other words. just be honest with me, congresswoman. you don't know how this story got to the "washington post." you don't know? >> how would i know how it got there. >> you just said you knew. >> it's more than -- no, i didn't. it's more than a wink and a nod to know this clearly came from the opposition research, people who were trying to help hillary clinton. but i think the more important thing is, this woman has proved

herself absolutely incapable of being -- >> what do you make of the words on the tapes? >> nobody has ever been a benedict arounold the way she h been. >> what do you make of what trump said on tape? >> this is bad boy talk. she doesn't want anybody to talk about her betrayal of america's national security secret. >> what was your reaction as the voter? >> that's the real issue. >> it's not a problem -- >> that will impact every single american. >> this is -- >> everybody understands bad boy talk. hillary clinton understands bad boy talk. she engages it in a certain amount of it i think. >> this doesn't affect your voting? >> absolutely not. i want to make sure there are jobs in this country again. there's only one candidate that will do that and that's donald trump. >> i think quite clearly what is going to happen on the first tuesday in november, people are going to take a really strong look at where america is at and

where they watch america to be, not just in a broadway but for them personally. and we've seen a dramatic drop in income. we've seen a huge tax increase in the form of obamacare. it's wildly unpopular. that's what people are worried about. they're also extremely nervous about terrorism. they've seen the failures under hillary clinton with that and her failed russian reset. those are the kind of things people are going to be thinking about. she doesn't want people to think about that, mrs. clinton. she wants them to think about the nonsense. when push comes to shove, very to take this election seriously. >> we call it news. everything you just said congresswoman we knew two or three hours ago, terrorism, the usual stuff the rains talk about, they talk about the e-mail and they talk about benghazi. everybody's been talking about that. that's baked into the cake. what's new are these tapes. here's the rnc chairman reince priebus just released a statement, no woman should ever

be described in these terms or talked about in this manner, ever. that's a strong statement by the leader of the party, joy. >> absolutely. the leader of the party is in an awkward position. reince priebus is supposed to stan on stage with trump not long from now, along with the speaker of the house of representatives and the evangelical government. not only the congresswoman who has herself pro-actively put donald trump's candidacy in evangelical terms, that is part of what's holding donald trump up. and one of the risks that you're seeing, charlie sykes was tweeting about this earlier. comments like this have to be complained in the churches, the very evangelical households that are supporting donald trump more than almost anybody else. i'm wondering if you get home into that household, where a husband and wife and their daughters are sitting down talking about this election, who

about have been strongly for donald trump and who have evangelicalized his candidacy, put it in god terms, how do those parents go to the polls and explain to their daughters that this is okay? >> that's a fair question. congresswoman? i like it phrased just that way. not your theological thinking but how do you think people will react to this who have religious beliefs? >> go back to the '90s. look about what parents had to talk about with mrs. clinton's husband. nobody wanted to talk about. they'd shut their tvs off it was so bad. it was words, not actions. i don't think anybody wants to deal with all that. quite honestly, that's people's personal business. what we want to talk about is what a president will do for us or to us. i think that's where mrs. clinton actually was recklessly dangerous to the united states. she's the one who's unfit to be commander in chief. donald trump is going to rebuild our economy and military.

that's more important to me and i think to a lot of evangelical households. >> let's all read the papers tomorrow morning. i think joy's point of view will be in the paper tomorrow morning. joy, i do believe in god. i agree with sort of the same line of thinking that michele bachmann has. i don't watch the to disparage it. i think it's the sectarian thing you're after. >> yes. >> people like how beliefs and how that will affect her voting. >> exactly. >> comfortable territory for both of us. have a nice weekend. congresswoman, thanks for coming on tonight. it's a tricky night. >> as always, thank you. >> when we return, my election diary on where this race stands tonight. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ clock ticking ]

time. you only have so much. that's why we wanna make sure you won't have to wait on hold. and you won't have to guess when we'll turn up. because after all... we should fit into your life. [ laughing ] not the other way around. [ clock ticking ] october 7th, election diary. an audio recording, the 2016 presidential election suffered the political equivalent of wind

shearing. suddenly a campaign flying at 39,000 feet found itself hurdling downward. when i absorbed the shock of this news, i thought of governor mike pence who's been out in the country convincing voters to vote for donald trump. the comments about women and his ability about his celebrity to take advantage of them is going to cause enormous turbulence in this campaign. why? he'll have to speak about the relevance or talk about it in his fight with hillary clinton. if trump is to avoid a net loss of votes with that story, he will need to stir up a worse story for the clinton campaign on this front, attack his rival with whatever he's got that puts her in a light that's even darker than the one this recording casts on him. fasten your seat belts. this is going to be one nasty weekend for mr. trump. for governor pence, for those on the other side that stand in mr. trump's firing line.

trump knows he cannot afford to lose, certainly not on the issue of personal conduct towards women. that issue is fraught with all that he's said already, already written into hillary clinton's lord's day script. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. coming up next, "your business" with jj ramberg.

good morning. coming up on "your business," think your product is hard to market? this guy made the accordion cool. find out how he did it using youtube and social media. >> tv and movie star monica potter starts a small business selling local products to help her ohio town's economy. those stories plus what you need to do to prevent sexual harassment in your workplace. that's all coming up next on "your business."