or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american exprs cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. i'm lawrence o'donnell in new york. this is our continuing live coverage of campaign crisis tonight for donald trump's campaign. "access hollywood" video of material recording donald trump saying things that was not used in the "access hollywood" show when the material was recorded in 2005 was released today. the "washington post" obtained that video. it was released. it showed donald trump saying things about women and his involvement with women that we have never heard from a presidential candidate and things we've never heard donald trump say before on tape, on

video. here is some of that video. >> thing is, you know, and -- she used to be pretty. >> i moved on her actually. she was down in palm beach. i moved on her and failed. i'll admit it. i did try and [ bleep ] her. she was married. no, nancy -- and i moved on her very heavily. in fact, i took her furniture shopping. she wanted to get furniture p. i said, i'll show you where they have nice furniture. i took her -- i moved on her like a bitch. i cooperate get there. she was married. all of a sudden, i see her, she's got the phony [ bleep ] and changed her look. >> she's the hottie in the purple. >> whoa! >> yes, yes, the donald is good! >> whoa -- >> my man. you got to look at me, gives me the thumbs -- >> you are a [ bleep ]. >> you got to get the thumbs up. >> let me -- >> very funny. you and i will walk out.

>> oh, my god. >> maybe it's a different one. >> better not be the publicist. >> no, it's her with the gold. i better use tic tacs fle s in start kissing her. i'm automatically attracted. when you're a star. they let you do it. you can grab them by the [ bleep ]. [ laughter ] do anything. >> legs, all we can see is the legs. >> no, it looks good. >> come on, shorty. >> nice legs, huh? >> ooh. get out of the way. good legs. go ahead. >> always good if you don't fall out of the bus. like ford, gerald ford, remember? >> down below. pull the handle.

>> nice to meet you. >> terrific. you know billy bush. >> mow are you? >> nice to see you. how are you? >> very well. thank you. are you ready to be a soap star? >> absolutely. let me be a soap star. >> how about a little hug for donald. he just got off the bus. >> absolutely. melania said it was okay. >> the trump campaign's first reaction was to say that it was simply locker room banter. then there was a written apology by donald trump in which he said he apologized if anyone was offended. that apology performance not accepted by anyone in republican politics anywhere in this country. and donald trump realized at some point today that he and the campaign staff were going to have to release a recorded video apology. that took the trump campaign hours to produce. hours after midnight, they released this recorded video. >> i've never said i'm a perfect

person, nor pretended to be someone that i'm not. i've said and done things i regret. the words released today on this more than a decade-old video are one of them. anyone who knows me knows these words don't reflect who i am. i said it. i was wrong. i apologize. i've traveled the country talking about change for america. my travels have also changed me. i've spent time with grieving mothers who have lost their children, laid-off workers whose jobs have gone to other countries, and people from all walks of life who just want a better future. i have gotten to know the great people of our country, and i've been humbled by the faith they placed in me. i pledge to be a better man tomorrow and will never, ever let you down. let's be honest -- we're living in the real world. this is nothing more than an distraction from the important issues we're facing today.

we're losing jobs, less safe than we were eight years ago, and washington is totally broken. hillary clinton and her kind have run our country into the ground. i've said some foolish things, but there's a big difference between the words and actions of other people. bill clinton has actually abused women, and hillary has bullied, attacked, shamed and intimidated his victims. we will discuss this in coming days. see you at the debate on sunday. >> we're joined by host of "hardball," chris matthews in washington. to watch utah, you have experience working in utah politics some time ago. it hasn't changed that much. you said to watch utah, utah republicans are now in open revolt against grump. -- against donald trump. the senator of utah, jason chaffetz, on the program. you heard him retracting his

endorsement of donald trump. what next? >> that's a start. i think all politics is local, as my old boss tim o'neil, used to say. and that reflects the community of salt lake and utah which is the this is not our guy. not the person. long before this tape, drug was a bragard, a big shot, he throws his weight around. he's not the personality they like out there. then to find that this is he behind the scenes, how he behaves when the cameras aren't on and he thinks the mike is off. i was thinking, lawrence, that this tape will be around for years. it will be around to explain the results of this campaign, it will outlive us. it will be non-degradable. and the thing that comes across for us in a society in which men and women are supposed to act a little differently plans you might say, imagine if hillary clinton had been the one on that bus. imagine -- it is unimaginable that she would talk as she was presenting herself like he said

to billy bush, let's walk out together. he's choreographing this whole thing. then he makes a reference to a president, gerald ford. he's thinking big picture. he's thinking how he's presenting himself. even as he moves out of the bus there he is talking about how he would grab someone -- imagine if hillary clinton said i'm a big shot, whenever i want to, i can grab some guy florida way, it's absurd to think about that. and i think that put this into perspective of what's beyond the pale. robert costa is a fabulous reporter with the "washington post." and he somehow maintains his independence and judgment in covering donald trump all these months now. he joins us by phone. robert, thank you for joining us. and i do respect your reporting and objectively, i was going back tonight with lawrence just looking at the a.p. report tonight. it's so objective. and it's an objective fact the situation that mr. trump finds himself in. have you read the lead? here it is -- "after being caught on tape making shockingly crude comments about a married wom

woman" -- important here --" he tried to seduce, he said in a midnight video," spooky here, "i was wrong. and i apologize, " yet, key word, "we're wrong to be talking about it. the conservatives like those in utah and the rest of the country, the leadership of the republican party are wrong to be distracted by this. something like they're too infantile to know this is important. and argue withed his words were not egregious as former president bill clinton's marital affairs in the '90s. what do you make of what trump's going through, he's seeing this and sees progressives piling on. he's also seeing objective reporters looking and say, my god, this is a bombshell? >> reporter: great to join you. it's not just what donald trump is going through, it's what the republican party is going through. these are two different circle that's have been linked the last

6 to 12 months, and they're at odds behind the scenes. based on my reporting, trump has been reluctant to apologize, it took hours. that's why the video was late, to get him to this point. because of speaker paul ryan and rnc chairman reince priebus, numerous elected officials, there's immense pressure. i think your point about utah is so on the money because utah is the tip of the iceberg tonight. jason chaffetz, the chairman in the house, you have senator mike lee now calling on donald trump to step aside. favored conservatives in utah. and those in the community and the gop -- i expect tomorrow morning you're going to see each more elected officials beyond utah ask trump to either step aside or fully denounce him. >> what do you think the chances are -- maybe a hard question for a straight reporter -- is there

any chance trump will do what tom eagleton did in '72 as nominee for vice president, throw it back to the republican national committee to pick someone else? >> reporter: i've heard tonight from several top republicans that they themselves are thinking about it. for example, i spoke to spencer zwick, top fundraiser for the speaker, a longtime confidante of mitt romney. that wing of the party tonight between 11:00 p.m. and now, they're on the phone, they're thinking through what are the options, what happens if pence could get the ticket, could he be the presidential nominee. in trump tower, it's a different scene. you have to remember that, trump you to or 5th avenue -- tower, 5th avenue, you from a combative mood, he is not in the mood to step aside. >> thank you very much. robert costa of the "washington post" who's been covering this guy so effectively for all these months. back to you, sir. thank you. this was a 248-word apology that donald trump released tonight.

exactly six of those words were apology. he said, "i was wrong, and i apologize." we are joined now by brian williams. brian, i know you've talked to sources on the republican side of the world about where things stand tonight. what are you hearing? >> reporter: robert costa and i may indeed be making the same phone calls to the same people. he is so right that there are two communities here, two constituencies. this a force inside trump tower, and there is what we used to call the republican party. i think a lot of republicans have gotten on board calling this the party of donald trump since the convention there is a wisconsin element to this story. it is multi-pronged, and as

you've been discussing, as your guests have been discuss, very powerful. it includes but is not limited to the speaker of the house, and everyone in his camp. it includes reince priebus who has had this remarkable public metamorphosis that's been dictate by the pace and timing of the race, and scott walker is never far from all political things wisconsin. chris matthews correctly points out utah as a conservative indicator. kind of unique but also a mover. there's a -- there's word that the pence campaign is anxious for air cover. anyone around politics for ten minutes saw the discomfort as they were trying to get the candidate and the press out separately tonight.

we all know how mike pence has run in this race. the constituencies that are important to him, the community he came out of. this is a pivotal weekend we're going into. let's not forget that it's bookended sunday night by a primetime audience that may exceed the first debate. and a town hall format, one female, one male moderator. that traditionally favors the empathetic, it favors the tactile, it favors the retail politician. and finally, i'll appeal to your sense of history. and in plain english, the guy at the top often doesn't know if and when it's time to go. 1974, hugh scott of pennsylvania, barry goldwater of arizona, congressman john rhodes

of arizona, made a long walk down the white house driveway, and they were the three who told richard nixon his time was up. and had to convince richard nixon his time was up. i am drawing no parallel here except to say the guy is often the last guy to know. this is going to be a real weekend of taking temperature, looking for defections, and again, will we see -- we've been talking about the storm for two days. will we see the reformation of an eyewall within a reconstituted what used to bea republican party? will there be a power structure enough to see if they want to make a go with it some other way. absolutely pivotal weekend in politics. >> brian, your point about that nixon moment i think is so

important, not even necessarily to the specific issue of getting donald trump to step down but getting him to behave in the way the republican leadership wants him to. even if that were ultimately to include stepdown. one of the problems in that scenario is that as troubled as richard nixon was at that time, he was a far more sensible politician on his worst day than donald trump seems to be on his best day. and richard nixon understood who those people were who were coming to see him. and we've heard donald trump seem to not understand the powers of the speaker of the house. we've heard donald trump at different times in the history of this campaign mock paul ryan as if paul ryan wasn't someone who could completely control donald trump's legislative outcomes were he ever to get to the white house. and so in that incredibly vivid scenario that you reminded us of

that moment where richard nixon had to face his real fate, in that scene, richard nixon fully respected and understood those people who had come to say him and explain this to him. is there anyone that we've seen in this campaign? that could have that kind of moment with donald trump? >> reporter: wow, that's a great question. all those things you listed, all those officeholders and names, some of that if not all of that has been just fine with donald trump's core base of support around this country. they have been loyal and vehement. and the outsider appeal, people like you and like me talk about the corollary. that is you don't pick a commercial airline pilot by

going up to someone in the airport and saming are you an outsid outsider? -- and asking are you an outsider? if there is a wisened type, a gray beard in the gop, there are plenty. there are employment of states men and women still around who proudly wear the republican label. any just coun-- i just don't kn who that soul is even the subcommittee that would make a visit to try to stabilize, to talk some sense into them. i don't know. >> brian williams, thank you very much for joining us, appreciate it. >> thanks. we'll be right back. card, you only earn double miles when you buy stuff from that rline. wait...is this where you typically shop? you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card.

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the fact is, we have been asked to settle. we've been asked to settle time and time again with our government.

we've been asked to settle on matters of great principle with our candidate for president of the united states. this can't continue. it's time for us not to settle. with all due respect, sir, you are the destruction. your conduct, sir, is the distraction. is the distraction from the principles that will help us win in november. you yourself, sir, mr. trump, have state repeatedly that the goal, objective, has to be to defeat hillary clinton in november. i couldn't agree more. it's for precisely that reason, mr. trump, that i respectfully ask you with all due respect to step aside. >> you, sir, are the distraction. that was republican senator mike lee of utah. we're joined again by chris matthews who told us earlier this evening to watch utah. that's where if there's going to be a revolt it will begin. chris matthews, it is fully underway. >> it sure is. and it's a state that's not only lds, not only mormon.

it's also a state that has been rejecting the establishment. the gentleman we saw, mike lee, as you know, knocked off a long-term senator to win that seat, bob bennett, the son of wall street as bennett. it was a whole tradition he knocked a part out there. orrin hatch had to fight very hard for re-election, anybody who looked like establishment. it's not just a religious base, it's a tea party base, mike lee, tea party man. associated with the politics of mike pence and, of course, ted cruz. so that party -- that right ward flank of the party which said mike pens has been trying -- mike pence has been trying to form up and keep on trump's side. we're not even near the suburbs in terms of trump's appeal. he's going right there, he's getting killed in the philly suburbs by something like 36% margin. killed. what he's fighting for is the conservative wing of the party. the more religious wing. the less secular.

they see this as raurch nchy, t behavior, i think we all do. we'll see the republican party come apart from the right. the left -- the left of the party, the center of the party has already moved against him. i think you'll see a shrinking of his electoral base dramatically over the weekend, any polling, any focused grouping, any interviews by reporters is going to show it. in the last week, he lost his lead in ohio, a state you must win if you're a republican. he's lost his lead in florida, a state he needed to win his 270. and he's already now in the process of losing north carona, he's nowhere near winning pennsylvania or virginia. he can't win the presidency as it looks right now. and i'm beginning to think his electoral count is going to shrink rather low, perhaps the low 100s. it's going to get really bad. as we're watching this, i get back to what i said earlier when

i came over here in this midnight run of paul revere. i'll tell you, it's not going to happen. he was already on the cliff. this will probably take him over. and again, that tape of him with that attractive actor from -- from the soaps is going to be played over and over and over again. and it's going to show a guy he didn't want to show us in this campaign. back to you. >> let me underline what you said. did i just hear you say that you think this video is fatal for the trump campaign? >> as it stands, yes. his apologyia wasn't enough because it wasn't an apologia. it was something like jimmy stewart said by accident. this is a full portrait. a long conversation about talking about trying to seduce a married woman when he himself

was just married. he talks about a woman in a physical sense the way he's used his celebrity. and as it was said, not just abusive but probably a criminal manner if you get into the actual aspect of sexual abuse and assault, as pointed out. i don't see how he can outlive there video -- i'm always open to the future. supposed's going to be one -- sunday's going to be one of the great moments in american political history, not necessarily for the good. we'll see what the guy does. his character's on display. it's not what he did 11 years ago, it's not what he set entirely, it's how he deals with it now. the way he's dealing with it now is not sufficient to erase what we see shot tape. >> mild maennered mike lee and anyone who spent time in utah knows that mild mannered describes many people in utah. mild mannered mike lee was angry in that facebook video. >> fired up. >> you could see him getting

angry as he was hearing himself say what he had to say about donald trump. >> i spent time with lee on the campaign trail. he was -- never endorsed donald trump. he's ted cruz's best buddy in the senate. when you pull back and look from the 30,000-foot view, the character story it fascinating. mike lee never backed donald trump, was one of the holdouts like, for example, john john kasich. he was put on the scotus list, of potential picks donald trump put out as an olive branch to get ted cruz's endorsement who, by the way, must be go had i not -- why did i not wait two more weeks and one day. this whole thing. then the utah factor. what we're seeing from the governor, mike lee, around chaffetz. the wisconsin factor. reince priebus in 2002 started the festival that tomorrow mike pence will go to along with paul ryan and ron johnson. but now not donald trump because

of this. there's reporting that rye at called trump to disinvite him. i've been total that's not the case, that the two did not speak tonight. but it is to -- to watch what's happened to the republican party, this is a significant moment. it's not oversedating it. i don't know that it's the death knell. i've gotten text was folks saying he's over, he's dead, this is it, 100%. i've also gotten calls saying, you know, how many times have i -- have we seen something like this before and trump has gotten through. it regardless, what has t has done to the gop and what's doing to the gop and -- i agree with chris, the debate, you thought two weeks ago was a big deal? goodness. >> it is -- the most difficult thing to imagine or predict right now is what happens sunday night. anybody who thinks they had a handle on that prior to today no longer does. we'll be right back.

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a good srce of fiber to help support regularity. mmmm. these are great. work here is ne. phillips'. the tasty side of fiber. we're back with our live breaking news coverage of the crisis in the trump campaign tonight. we're joined now, rejoined by jonathan allen, political journalist, and biographer of hillary clinton. we're all sitting here trying to imagine sunday night at this debate. hillary clinton gets to watch this news continue to break over the course of the weekend. she gets to watch more angry statements by republicans on saturday to and about donald

trump. and she goes into that debate sunday night. what would you expect from hillary clinton on that stage sunday night? >> lawrence, first of all, we'll get to watch "saturday night live" on nbc -- >> yes. >> about 22 hours from now. i hope everybody's up up and watching that. in terms of the debate, her team has been preparing for donald trump to throw every possible attack at her. you name the woman that bill clinton has been linked to, when fairly or unfairly, and that has been tossed at her in 2008 prep. i don't think she's going to be unready. i think she'll use that to pivot back to policy. there's no reason for her to get donald trump off the hook by getting in the trerchs with him. inthink -- i think they know what they're doing. we saw her handle donald trump pretty firmly in the firstdrate. i don't anticipate that she'll have any trouble in the second

debate. >> would your expectation be that hillary clinton goes in relying on the moderators to bring this up, or questions from the audience to bring it up. and let donald trump sync himself in his interests that she doesn't need to jump on this? >> there's an old reporter rule which is if you let your source talk long enough, they'll hang themselves. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and i think we saw that in the first debate. yeah, i think her strategy will be let the moderators bring it up. if trump wants to fire at her about bill clinton, she'll have one line to come back with on that. and try to get out and pivot back to policy. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight. and thank you very much for reminding us about what kind of panic is going on in this building right now with the "saturday night live" writing staff trying to come up with something for tomorrow. we'll try to get a camera live in the "snl" writing room upstairs.

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we're back to our live breaking news coverage of the trump crisis in the campaign. liz smith, we were talking to jonathan allen about how does hillary clinton handle this. you've worked in the democratic campaigns. and i mean, isn't it just go out in the debate stage and watch it happen? >> yeah. i do think that is how it

happens. and i love john, and john's brilliant. he's a hillary clinton expert. where i disagree with him is i think if donald trump raises bill clinton's past infidelities that hillary clinton will use it as a moment to show her humanity, to show her vulnerability, and to talk about the personal pain it caused her. she's not the only person, woman in america who's gone through that. some of her best moments, when in 2008 or 2012, have been when she's let down her guard and shown that she is a vulnerable person and that she is -- she's gone through humbling experiences. i think she'll probably take a different tax there. >> elise, what we've seen certainly on the basis of one debate including the primary debates is the clinton debate prep system works. whatever she has working with

her as well as her own ideas about what to do because as you know, you can do all the debate prep in the world. you'll never use the exact language that lands on your candidate. and the candidate on her feet, sitting down in the town hall forum has to make the decision of exactly how to respond, what tone, what amount, what -- what facts do i use here and now. they've -- they've just been great at this. they have plenty of time. they've got all day, all day sunday to map out exactly what they want to do with this. >> what they've done the basis of the work because she's been consistently so well prepared that the beauty of going into the second debate is if you did it right for the first debate, it's really so much easier and so over the past two weeks, it hasn been what it was going into the first debate. donald trump never did that

legwork. he needed to do some. what i've heard from undecided voters is his lack of seriousness hurt him. the bar was so low, that if he could have come in with a teeny bit of knowledge it would have been enough to have helped him in an exponential way. hillary clinton, though, has been practicing attacks from donald trump. they will hone and refine it, but she has her play its back. >> let's talk about during the storm coverage they were doing a little town hall thing in new hampshire. and howie carr, local boston radio talk show host, the biggest fan boy of donald trump in new england he was the moderate rariator and offering . and donald trump cooperate keep his concentration in that

no-pressure forum. >> that was an interesting optical moment that i think we were covering -- there was hurricane matthew and going up coastline. but you watched that. we were told by sources in and around the campaign that was for donald trump to develop muscle memory, to get back to the town hall setting and remember what it was like. he's never done a town hall debate, and he hasn't done an actual town hall campaign event in months. it was get back in the swing a little bit. the prep has changed since the first debate. he has a smaller group of advisers now working with him. chris christie is honchoing that. reince priebus is involved. both were with him when the story broke at 4:00 in the afternoon doing this prep session. everybody is aware of what the mistakes were on sunday. there was talk during the debate

of what were -- was the word gracious trump that we were seeing or the other trurchl. there is also a -- trump there is also a question mark, what is clear, what donald trump said at 12:01 was i'm going after bill clinton. >> yeah. >> watch me sunday go after -- >> yeah. >> we don't need to guess. >> he made a point -- >> it's going to be kamikaze trump. >> he's going to try to take her out, and it is not going to be pretty. >> each at the town hall, it was awkward because, you know, you're supposed to be interacting with people, putting yourself in their shoes. and -- and every answer of his, it -- again, it was like he got distracted but somehow brought it back to self-egrandizing moment for himself. they were saying this would be a great format for him. if that was any indication, i do not know -- >> we'll be right back. mom,

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i moved on her. she was in palmbeach. i moved on her. i admit it. no, nancy -- no, i moved on her heavily. in fact, i took her out furniture shopping. she wanted to get foreign policy. i said, i'll show you where they have nice furniture. i took her out -- i moved on her like a bitch. >> we're back in this live continuing coveraget campaign. chris matthews -- coverage of the campaign. chris matthews, this is the video that's changed the course of this campaign. we showed different pieces of it at different times. sometimes we run the whole thing. america may be less than 24 hours away from quoting passages word for word in ways that people can't forget. >> you're so right. and the dush ability of this vehicle for information is going

to be far greater than anybody who writes about it, talks about it, defends it, apologizes for it. it's going to be around. it's -- it's captivating because you're catching private conversations, i was thinking what "snl" tomorrow will do -- i imagine there will be a bus -- you'll be hearing voices from inside a bus. and there will be obviously hyperbol hyperbolic, it doesn't have to be much beyond this to be a cold open. it is a cold open in itself. >> on nbc, they cannot say the words that donald trump said on that bus. that's how astounding this is. >> i think we ought to talk about this the way he called locker room conversation. first of all, i'm not sure what that means in the 21st century. and i'm not saying i haven't heard the words before. i'm not going to be a fraud about it. i tell you, men don't talk like this generally.

women wonder how we take when we're alone. generally the guys i hang out with love their wives, they respect them. this is real. they don't talk about him in this sort of physical kind of negative way or sort of not serious and respectful. they just don't. this is not the normal conversation. and i think women would be proud of most men the way they talk about them when they're not there. they talk with respect and love. it's their spouse for life. and i think that people ought to know that. this is unusually unpleasant to hear because he's talking about his physical behavior toward married women, other women that he's trying to pick up, fulg. in a way that's unbelievable. and i don't think -- i don't think this is going to go away. i'm going to -- to answer your question because i know you were trying to pin me. that's what we do is try to pin each other in terms. getting a fact out of each other. i'll tell you, if this stands, and it looks like it is

standing, it is a killer. i don't have the imagination to think what could happen sunday night which would turn the tables in his direction. we have been saying at least on my program, we've been saying all week that he had to get an a-plus, a wow this sunday. to win this election. not only would he make up for his weak performance in the first debate and the failure in the second, he had to do something superior. now i think he has to do an a-plus performance, a wow performance just to get out of the ditch he's in that is starting your march down the field on like the one yard line and you have to pick up 99 yard. this is going to be tough. there aren't many downs. this is all going to happen pretty fast now. tomorrow, the newspapers will come out with this tomorrow. everybody will read it tomorrow. it will be huge on sunday. well before the debates. there will be an interim accounting with all the best

minds in the republican party being invited to the second morning shows and they'll be asked on "meet the press" where do you stand now. there's going to be an accounting, a roller coaster. and they're going -- a roll call. and they're going to have to say were they with him with all that he's said or against him. i don't think they want to say they're with him. i think the fact that they're taking leave on that wisconsin event tells you which direction they're heading sunday which is ton show up for donald trump. that's going to be the first big sign. i don't think it's you, scott, yet, coming to see the president as brian talked about. i don't think he can hide. they're coming for him. >> elise, they're coming for him, says chris matthews. you live inside the republican party. is that the sense that you're feeling? >> i think everyone's overestimating how much impact that is going to have. i think that people are pulling away, but there haven't been -- there weren't enough immediate objections -- >> immediate on republican provi -- professional republicans? >> yes, i just -- i don't see

that many people unendorsing. i think there will be some. i think there's going to be a trickle. people in tough races. i think that people will trial to keep the status quo, keep everything calm. >> what if it gets worse supposed, what if he does something worse sunday night? >> i doubt he does anything that is so much worse sunday. it will be another subpar performance. if he gets really nasty with hillary clinton which i think is completely possible. if he gets sexual on sage about allegations with bill clinton, if he has the performance on stage like he about can marco rubio and the agnat me to, things will go down. and i'm curious how evangelicals at churches in his strongest bases of support are going tographile with this -- to grapple with this. >> we'll be right back. korean bbq shrimp.

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we're back with our live team coverage of the crisis in the trump campaign. we're join wanted by chris matthews in washington, elise jordan, liz smith, and hallie jackson here in new york. hallie, you've been talking to trump supporters all year of different stripes. what are -- where do you expect there to be any cracks in trump supporters, if any -- you're nodding your head before i finish the question. >> here's the thing. so if you're at these -- it's funny because we talk about october surprises, and there's this one. it was a week ago that "the new york times" bombshell report came out. that feels like a thousand years ago. in being in contact with reporters in swing states, it you want to check in regularly. when the tax issue happened, they didn't care. every controversy, they defend him, people at rallies, supporters. that's something that i think sometimes folks miss in new york

and washington because you can get inside a bubble when you go out in the country. these people truly hate hillary clinton. they want donald trump. and it's not because they love donald trump necessarily, some do with a passion that's intense as weaver discovered on the campaign campaign trail. but a lot was driven by jason chaffetz. and another talked about -- saying a trump person saying i -- he was sort of, this person was concerned about the strategy that the trump campaign seemed to be employing, and he said, don't get me wrong, i don't like hillary clinton at all. like i am on -- team trump basically because i don't like hillary clinton. and i think that sometimes that gets missed. i don't expect that trump support ears -- i don't know yet. i haven't -- it's 1:53 in the morning. i don't think they'll change. here's where it matters. i grew up in bucks county, pennsylvania. that is where it matters, in the suburban parts of philadelphia with swing state voters. >> liz, does this move the

undecideds off the fence? >> i do. i agree with chris, we are going to be seeing this video for a long time. and this video will be played much more than that apology video. it doesn't get better than where you see it. it gets even worse. so i do think that -- that can have that effect. >> if you want to play the apology video, it's only six words. the other 242, you can ignore. >> throw in the trash. hallie made an important point talking about the issues that we as media have been obsessed over. huge stories that are happening that have really minimal impact with voters. the tax story in particular. that trump's losses were 2% of all losses in one year. that doesn't matter to voters. but women do care about, undecided women, care about the harmts. >> the last word to chris

matthews. chris? >> i think we'll know when i'm not right and the others are wrong, whatever. i think that women who run for office run as women because it is a breakthrough, a glass ceiling issue. you've got to justifi, it seems, we need women. and women run and they make the case. how does a woman run for office like barbara comstock, i'm look could at these women who are republicans and have to run as a republican woman. what is that? you're a woman and you're a republican. and you're expected to be loyal to the top of the ticket, but that's tertiary. you're running as a republican and as a woman. and i think they're going to stand out on those legs of the stool and skip the other. i do believe, and this is what i felt when i first heard the story when it was breaking, my first reaction may surprise people. i thought, oh, my god. this was a private matter, why -- this is going to kill somebody politically y. are we dragging out a private matter? the old issue of public versus private. everybody said it's going to be

all over the place. my opposition to bringing it out, which wasn't long, was moot. it was all about something that's already out, the "post" was going to run it, it's a fact. so the implications i thought were always going to be huge. my only question was, is it fair, and it's the old argument, what's private, what's public, the hot mike, i guess, and the tools we live by, our microphones, anything set into a hot mike is public. and that's just the fact. and we're going to learn once again that that's true. good night to everybody. it's late. it's very late. >> thank you, chris matthews. really appreciate it. also thank you to hallie jackson in new york. liz smith here in new york with us. and elise jordan. everyone else who joined us tonight, really appreciate it through our hours of live coverage of this situation. msnbc's live coverage continues after this. you don't let anything keep you sidelined.

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