i've never said i'm a perfect person. nor pretended to be someone that i'm not. i've said and done things i regret, and the words released today on this more than a decade old video are one of them. anyone who knows me knows these words don't reflect who i am. i said it. i was wrong. and i apologize. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." this is where we are today.

exactly 1 month from election day, one day from the second debate match-up in a sunday night town hl in st. louis and one morning after the friday bombshell that rocked the trump campaign. a 2005 recording obtained by nbc news in which trump and "access hollywood's" billy bush discussed. this is graphic and offensive. >> i moved on her, actually. she was down in palm beach. i admit it. i did try and [ bleep ] her. i moved on her very heavily. in fact, i took her out furniture shopping. she wanted to get furniture. i said, i'll show you where they have nice furniture. i moved on her like a [ bleep ] but i couldn't get there and she was married. all of the sudden, i see and now she's got the big phony [ bleep ]s and everything, she's totally changed her look. i'm automatically attracted to

beautiful women. it's like a magnet. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do it. grab them by the ploo[ bleep ]. >> all right, you have the state of play inside the trump campaign. what's the mood over there? >> reporter: good morning, joy. i'm standing here outside of trump tower and from what i've heard from people, before the statement sort of apologizing for his remarks, a gop surrogate supportive of trump has said, it's over. he's never seen anything like this before. another staffer within the campaign said he couldn't tell me what h reaction was. they're so disappointed. on the other hand, one saying he doesn't condone the remarks but doesn't condemn the man. he didn't have the spiritual guidance 11 years ago that he has around him right now but overall from what i hear from people around the organization is they're concerned about these

comments and we've seen trump go through controversial periods before. i feel like every few weeks, it's something else we're talking about that we're reacting to that i ask my sources, what do you think about this, how it's going to play and this was one of the first time i heard concern from a lot of people who have been bullish and standing by him throughout the entirety of the campaign and one of the staffers i just spoke to last night, i ask them, what do you think about the apology? just around midnight online. and they said, it was a good starting point but it needs a little bit stronger of a mea culpa because what you saw in your intro was trump said he apologizes but then again, going at bill clinton for what he says is something worse. definitely previews what we'll line up on sunday as well and seems like a classically trump sort of apology/non-apology. taking the blame but then shifting it to someone else. >> last night in the wake of the video's release, "new york

times" allison dorf said they're discussing options for alternatives to trump. what is the yucht and the latest on the rnc's discussion if trump were to draw? >> i say that they have been talking about the idea that there's no way for them to actually oust trump. they're not going to do something where they ask trump to step down, at least from what my sources are telling me. nobody was calling his campaign to do that but if he were to step down and if he would do that voluntarily and if mike pence was the nominee, what would that mean for the party? obviously, early voting has already started. the idea is his name is on the ballot. i think there was a mood of chaos and nervousness but the person i talked to and people i talked to say they're discussing all possibilities. >> and you said mike pence because the question with the ballots already printed is,

could you even replace donald trump given his name is printed on ballots? are they talking about if this continues to happen, mike pence moving up into the top spot? >> well, the idea is that if donald trump somehow stepped down, the next person would be mike pence. however, i haven't heard anybody say this is exactly what we'll do is mike pence becomes the mom kne , nominee, have a write-in candidate. i haven't heard any of that. but the the fafact the sources want to go into detail about the plans but the news broke and the rnc knowing they couldn't oust him but knowing this might at some point lead to him stepping down, they wanted to talk about that. >> all right. stay with us as well. yamiche. i want to bring in tara and rebecca, new york magazine writer at large and author of "all the single ladies."

before, i want to quickly jump back to ali if you're still there. have we heard anything from kelly ann conway yet because she's been awfully quiet. her expertise as a consultant has been clean-up on aisle 6 when there have been men in the gop who said untoward things that put them in jeopardy of losing women's votes, have you heard anything as of yet from kelly ann? >> reporter: no, i haven't. and truthfully, she is someone who's brought in at a period when the campaign needed revamping and largely did that. you see her frequently defending trump and saying he's not friendly for women and these are not the candidate she sees and not the americans candidates should be thinking about when voting. she's done a good job making the case for who trump is and trying to push him towards more policy but still, i think back to something yamiche was saying and someone from a pro-trump

super-pac said, wouldn't it blow your mind if he dropped out and let mike pence at the top of the tikt and that would never happen looking at trump and the entirety of the campaign but it's something i definitely have been hearing from folks as i'm going through the ranks and saying, what is the right way to come out of this? kelly ann has been largely quiet on this and i think the trump tower for the most part is closing ranks around their candidate and trying to figure out what the best way forward is. tomorrow was a big deal to begin with coming out of monday's initial day. it just raises the stakes even more for sunday and even more of a gutter fight because you know the content that's brought up. it's going to be much less policy focused if you read the tea leaves coming out of the apology, he's saying i'm getting down in the gutter. that's where this has landed and a lot thought it would end up. now with 30 days left to go, seems like we were right. >> absolutely. i want to start from the strategic point of you. kelly ann conway was obviously trying to right the ship in

building back the support of women. when you listen to that statement last night that donald trump kind of read in front of the weird background, did that strike you as a strategic statement by kelly ann conway or he fre styled himself? >> probably a combination of the two. i think she had some very small input, but trump, at the end of the day is going to be trump and do what he wants so i think she does not have the control that a campaign manager should, and i think what's particularly evident about that is the apt of time she spent on tv. she's a real campaign spokesperson, a manager. a real campaign manager is doing the work of the campaign, not on television non-stop. her job is to go on television and put a face on that campaign, a face of a white woman that people can be comfortable with and to contrast with trump. that's her real job and she does no have the say because trump is not going to give her the

say. that's not consistent with who he is and how he treats women. her role on the campaign is indicative of how he treats women and these comments. >> meanwhile, rebecca, you have the person who's in charge of the campaign, steve bannon where his own issues including his former wife about the way he treats women coming out. being asked about john harwood asked if any chance trump will quit the race. are you serious? the men of the trump campaign are reasserting themselves and tripling down. >> they're consistent with the remarks we heard out of donald trump on the tape. what's interesting about the degree of response and the republicans distancing themselves, this is not that different from what we've seen for his entire career and time on the presidential campaign trail. the stuff about women as pigs and evaluating them and talking about their weight gain with regard to alicia machado not to mention the way he talks about

people of color, mexicans as rapists. the racism and the misogyny on display for his entire time as a candidate, the misogyny part explicit last night but it is not that different from what we've seen from him consistently. he's advised by roger ails who left for sexual harassment of his female employees. this is not that different and i'm struck by these republicans who are suddenly disavowing him if this is a particularly different sentiment and i think it's interesting this was something he voiced about white women. it wasn't about alicia machado or the central park 5 who he believed were guilty despite dna evidence and the fact they were jailed without having been proven guilty for all those years. no one got that upset about any of these people but this tape and not devaluing its importance and incredible story, but this tape is somehow thought of in a

different category. why? because he's saying these about a white woman? >> you were an alumnus of "the apprentice." described the treatment of women on that show interestingly enough, the white women on that show. the alicia machado the same morning this tape came out from "access hollywood" and you had the central park five revelation and didn't distance themselves through any of that. >> i think the difference is, it is on full display. i mean, it is the use of the "p" word in particular. i think they know and i also think it's a tipping point too. there's always a point where people get away with a whole lot and then that one moment where people say, why is it this one moment? i think there's a tipping point effect going on here and i agree with rebecca's point though that this is because of his targeting white women specifically and in the way that it is just so

graphic. i think that's why it's particularly stinging for them, but let's be clear, he said these words do not reflect who i am. kelly ann conway say these words do not reflect who he is. this absolutely reflects who he is. and i'm going to say this and barring any unforeseen incident, this is the defining moment where donald trump loses this campaign. >> we should point out, he was already losing. >> losing more. this is the defining moment where it's crystallized. >> you were doing excellent reporting on this. inside the trump campaign, should we expect any resignations? any people inside the campaign to your reporting now thinking this might not be something to associate their brand with? >> from my understanding, i haven't heard of anybody quitting this campaign or anybody who's leaving the campaign but i think the larger question is whether or not there's people up in trump tower

that might be not wanting to leave but what i have been hearing is the idea of field staff and the idea of people that are going to be kind of looking at this young college student or young people wondering, is this somebody i could campaign for and do that? i think those people who aren't being paid but the people who are really kind of at the heart of the trump campaign, those are already kind of very much beside themselves and don't feel like they could continue on with this. >> nate silver had a poignant tweet and if women decided they could not support donald trump. and will be back in our next hour. thank you all. coming up, many leaders of the white evangelical community are shrugging off the lewd comments about what he thinks the celebrity will do. we'll talk trump and voter of faith next.

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that's when he pulled me aside in this room and made another sexually aggressive advance on me where he tried to make his move. he pushed me up against the wall and had his hands all over me and tried to get up my dress again and i had to physically say, what are you doing? stop it. if i hadn't pushed him away, i'm sure he would have just went for it. he was aggressive. >> that was jill, a former business associate of donald trump describing an alleged encounter with trump that happened in the 1990s. she remained silent for 20 years after filing a 1997 complaint that accused trump of attempted

rape. jill hart withdrew the lawsuit. she said as part of a deal to settle a related case involving money trump owed her and her boyfriend's business, money trump refused to pay. but she came forward with her story after trump denied the account when published in the "new york times" earlier this year. we reached out for comment and told us the following. quote, it is disheartening that one has to dignify a response to the absurd claim. trump denies each and every claim as this 24-year-old makes any allegation. her attorney is on the phone. i know you're on vacation, so i appreciate you taking the time. >> my pleasure. >> so jill has not been a fixture on american television. obviously, that interview was from "the guardian." the uk publication. but now these new statements out of donald trump's own mouth caught on tape seem to have corroborated the behavior that

jill hearth is describing. why do you think her story has not been more currency in this campaign? >> kudos to you because you have talked about it and covered it and a few others. but everybody else has pretty much been radio silent and it took donald trump coming forward yesterday on a tape involuntarily, obviously, and bragging about sexual assault for everybody to give jill hearth some credibility. were deluged and now everybody wants to interview her. it's discouraging to me that donald trump is a man out of the closet misogynist for decades. there's ample proof of his misogyny but really, it took the revelation yesterday for people to give jill some credibility and i think that's very sad and how far we have to go. >> you and i talked about the cosby l allegations, the roger

allegations and this predatory use of celebrity is something that we keep having to go back to over and over again but one of the themes is the women are then sort of put on trial and made to if they're not perfect, not be believed. in the case of jill though, it's striking how similar the behavior is. she said she was cornered by hip, puhi him, pulled into his daughter's bedroom, groped, attempted to kiss her, that kind of thing. at the same time, jill hart did ultimately withdraw the lawsuit against him. why did she withdraw that lawsuit? >> because her brother had just died. she was in a very difficult marriage. she and her husband had been litigating against donald trump in the business case for years. they didn't have much money and they were sick of it and frankly, they want the whole thing to be over and done with. the history is her husband brought the business case against trump, bend pepending f years. jill tried to bring up the

sexual harassment, he was groping me under the table, pushed me into ivanka's bedroom, i had him run away and when tried to do that, shut her down and said it's not relevant to the business case so she brought her own sexual harassment case, more than what 99% of sexually harassed women do by the way and then decides he wants to settle three weeks later. i think you can see they took her case very seriously and that was the turning point for trump to come to the table. a man who never settles cases. >> claerthe 25th anniversary of on the bench not believed because they continued to work with him in subsequent jobs. jill in her case went to a trump event in january. nick interviewed her ex-husband and gave the same story. they corroborate each other even if they're not together but that's the pushback. why did she attend a trump rally

if this actually happened? >> i represented sexual harassment victims for 30 years. i still do and i live in the real world and in the real world, most working women are sexually harassed and we put up with it, one foot in front of the other, still work with these guys because we have to earn a living and put up with it and in jill's case, she did more than what most women did because she filed a lawsuit, put it out there in the public record. everybody can read the lawsuit, it's available on lawnews.com. but then she settled the case and said, i'm not going to spend my life hating donald trump and trump apologized, behaved properly after that around her and decided to move on with her life. years past, didn't have any contact with him. she's a fabulous make-up artist in new york city. more years passed. she's a business won and also a

skin care line and thought, he could use a little help with the make-up and reached out to him and also said, the man is 70 years old. she's much older and didn't really think there would be a problem. d, you know, tried to do a business deal with him. i don't think that's hard to understand. >> absolutely. and lisa, lastly, erin burnett, a host on cnn, a friend of hers, donald trump attempted to kiss her against wishes and nancy in the vulgar video is billy bush's co-host, nancy o'del. they're not commenting on the case. with this being something apparently donald trump thought his celebrity gave him the entitlement to do, what would you advise this person who is wealthy, who is famous with a celebrity and this behavior is perpetrated against them, as an attorney, what should women do in this situation? >> you should reach out to

women's rights law and other women have reached out to me. none are willing to come public at this point. it's a scary thing for women but you need a strong advocate on your side. you don't want to face the media firestorm by yourself against donald trump. he will attack you just in the way he's attacked jillharth just like bill cosby attacked h his. and it's hard for her. the reason why people like trump and cosby do that is to deter other women from coming forward and it works. but it doesn't work 100% of the time because some women are brave enough to step forward and i'm proud to represent those women. >> thank god that you do the work you do, lisa, my friend. thank you so much for taking the time for us today. i always appreciate it. >> thank you for covering this story from the beginning, joy. you're one of the good ones. >> thank you so much. great rest of yor saturday. up next, how evangelicals

react to trump's comments.

>> managed to hold together the evangelicals. not only the congresswoman who put donald trump's candidacy in evangelical terms part of what's holding donald trump up and one of the risks you're seeing, charlie wiz tweas tweeting is cs like this have to be explained in the evangelical households that are supporting donald trump more than almost anybody else. >> on thursday, a group of more than 75 evangelical leaders of multiple ethnicities posted a change.org petition. no matter what issues we care about, we have to make it publicly clear that mr. trump's racial and religious bigotry is morally unacceptable to us as

evangelical cristhian christi evangelical christians as we attempt to love neighbor as yourself. now nearly 12,000 signatures. christian family coalition and jim wallace author of "america's original sin." you're a signatory to this petition. why you and 74 other leaders created this petition and posted it on thursday? >> well, several of us felt we had to speak up and break the silence here. let me just read you a simple paragraph from all the signers. sometimes, historic moments arise when more is at stake than partisan politics. when the meaning and integrity of faith hangs in the balance. we believe that racism strikes at the heart of the gospel and racial justice and reconciliation is at the core message of jesus and because racial bigotry has been a corner

stone of donald trump's campaign, it is not just another issue for us. therefore, we undersign evangelicals cannot tolerate the racial, religious, and gender bigotry of donald trump. >> how do you respond to that? even before this vulgar comments came to light, you know, that donald trump said with billy bush on that bus, you know, he's got a history. none of which he's apologized for. he doubled down on the central park 5 comments. it's been on display for some time. how do you support this man? >> well, joy, first of all, thank you very much for having me on your program this morning, and i would just point to trump's outreach in the african-american community. his support by leaders such as dr. ben carson. his efforts to go into the neighborhoods, into churches, meet with pastors. in fact, in new york at trump

tower, he met with over 50 african-american pastors back in june and shared his heart with them, what his concerns were for the country. i think that, when you look at the polls, they begin to reflect and bare the fact that about right now, anywhere from 12% to 25% of african-american voters have expressed support for mr. trump and his candidacy. so i think that when you look at the totality of the situation, you see that he is making an effort, which is unprecedented for a republican candidate in these modern times to reach out and request the vote of african-americans and leaders as well as voters on the ground i've spoken to. >> i don't know who you've talked to but there is no poll that exists in this realm or the next that shows 12% to 25% of african-americans supporting donald trump. there isn't. and that is.

>> joy, there is. actually, there is. the l.a. times. >> okay, the l.a. times. >> the tracking poll every day of 400 voters and i looked at it last night and 12% of african-american voters said. >> you said 12% to 25% and that is probably the most discredited poll working today. a poll of 400 people is not a poll that's legitimate. 400 voters. >> a day. >> 400 voters a day. >> ask anybody, a 400 person tracking poll is not worth reporting. that's why you never hear anybody in the media. doesn't matter, sir. >> it's not the same 400 voters. i cited it and it's substantiated. >> it's none getting 25% of african-americans. that's absurd. that's my opinion. it's polls that we track that are factual. let me go back to reverend wallace. your response to that, sir. >> anthony, evangelicals often

quote scripture. well, here's matthew 18. the things that proceed from the mouth come out of the heart. in light of everything we hear this morning, how can you still support donald trump? let me be clear. when media said evangelicals support donald trump, what they mean are older white conservative mostly men. and in fact, this multipethnic intergenerational group said racial bigotry is at the heart of the gospel for us. we can't let this go or tolerate this or see this as another issue. we're saying, anthony, racism cuts to the heart of the gospel. do you agree with that? >> listen, reverend wallace. >> do you agree with that? >> i allowed you to speak, allow me to speak. racism is a sin. we know that. and we stand by that.

but at the same time, what i am telling you is that in the african-american community, there are millions of voters who have felt disenfranchised over the last 50 years and do welcome, albeit a minority, but do welcome the overtures. >> i'm not sure what authority you're giving yourself to speak for the african-american community but somebody who's been in the african-american community for her life, you're still speaking with authority i'm not sure you have. >> i am answering the question. >> you, don't speak for african-americans. speak for yourself. >> i never said i was speaking for african-americans. don't mischaracterize me or the words in my mouth. i am stating the facts, joy. if you want to walk pass and ignore the facts, find. but i go back to credible polls that show. >> i asked you the question. >> why don't you answer the question you were asks? >> racism is a sin and recognize that. what i would like to know is,

reverend wallace, okay, because you quoted scripture is, give me the examples, give me the statements where mr. trump has expressed, has expressed racism, has expressed sentiments that are anti-african-american. >> laziness is a trait in blacks. can my producer find that? that's something i'm quoting donald trump as saying and him wanting to execute five innocent young men in the central park 5, doubling down on that, 24 hours ago he believes that. >> obviously, if -- >> african-american communities are essentially hell. >> obviously -- >> is that racist? >> absolutely, i do not believe that, and absolutely, that is racist, if in fact, if in fact he did say that. >> he did. >> okay. >> can i ask you a question? i asked you a question.

i'm a white evangelical, speaking to you as a white evangelical. do you believe racism cuts to the heart of the gospel? the stigma makes clear all the things donald trump has said, called mexicans rapists and criminals. questioned the legitimacy and the true to humiliate saying he's not one of us, he's an other, he's not a real american. the stigma is full. read the statement. you should read the statement. you should sign the statement on change.org. being signed by thousands of evangelicals and evangelicals of color are watching evangelicals like you because finally, our evangelicals are white evangelicals, more white or evangelical in this election. that's when it comes down to. white christians have to decide if we'll be more christian than white in this election season. >> reverend wallace. >> racial bigotry is at the heart of the gospel. read the petition and i hope you

as a white evangelical will sign it like many evangelicals have. >> reverend wallace? >> when you allow racism to be the heart of the gospel, younger evangelicals are watching this and watching what people like you say and do. >> there is the quote. lay zins is a trait in blacks and you could read it by evangelicals. your response? >> i think reverend wallace, it's in poor taste to politicize and try to manipulate words that have been said in the past. he himself, donald trump has said that he regrets. and some foolish remarks. >> just yesterday. >> he regrets saying lazeiness. >> he said he made foolish remarks in the past, has apologized and regretted some things he's said in the past. >> which things? which specific things? that sounded like it's been described as an aggressive oly in which he made

accusations against bill clinton. i want to play one more time because we talked about donald trump's history of racial bigotry on the record and easy to find but what he said on that 2005 tape is undisputed. i don't even think, you sir, could attempt to spin this for him but i would love to ask you as an evangelical christian, what do you think of these words? take a listen. >> i got to use some tic tacks in case. i just start kissing them. just like a magnet. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. whatever you want. grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> you're a leader of the christian or part of the christian community in florida. this acceptable? >> as i said in our telephone conversation yesterday, i do not defend these remarks. don't justify it in any way, shape, or form. in fact, neither does trump nor his campaign. that's why they issued an

immediate statement of apology, not once, but twice. first in writing and second this morning via video where he apologized for these remarks. let's put this into context. this happened 12 years ago. this was a private conversation. he was a private businessman. he was not running for president of the united states. nor for any other public elected position. but what i will say and i told you this yesterday, when a person apologizes, reverend wallace, there is such a thing as compassion, mercy and forgiveness. we don't continue to point the finger, cut them or kick them when down. it was billy graham in march of '98 who said regarding the bill clinton and monica lewinsky scandal said if they're true about them, he said that bill clinton was a remarkable man who had a lot of temptations and ready to forgive him and it's at the heart of the gospel.

>> we don't have an unlimited amount of time. let's give reverend wallace. we can't monopolize the show. >> extend that grace and forgiveness, as one evangelical to another. >> you have to give reverend wallace an opportunity to speak as well. please do. >> tony, america is watching what evangelical christians say and do about this man, donald trump. people of color who are evangelical are watching. all the polls talk about evangelicals supporting trump and that's mostly old white evangelical men. 37% of evangelicals are not white. that means 35 million people are being erased from the conversation about what evangelicals think. and you have to pay attention as a white evangelical to what the country is saying, to what evangelicals of color are pleading with you to understand.

racism is a gospel issue, and until evangelicals like you understand that, you're never going to get a new generation. because your whole group is dying. it's shrinking and the group that's growing are young and multiethnic evangelicals making a statement and you should read it, please read it today. it's change.org. >> sir, i wish we had more time. i wish we had more time. thank you very much, anthony, and reverend jim wallace. i'm sorry we don't have more time. more "a.m. joy" after the break. and now much of that same advanced technology is found in the audi a4. with one notable difference... ♪ the hily advanced audi a4, with available traffic jam assist. ♪

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>> this is bigger than the republican party. if they don't know what to say, call a rape survivor and ask them what they heard when he said these words. >> he was not running for office

back then. he didn't want to become a politician or join government. he was part of a different world than he is now. >> now conservative women are addressing the looming question. how do republican women feel? senator kelly ayotte said succinctly said they're totally inappropriate and offensive but not rescinded her endorsement. digital director sarah. thank you for talking. and i want to start by getting you to respond as a conservative, as a republican woman. who you heard that 2005 tape, what were your thoughts? >> my immediate reaction was shock and i was just sick hearing it because here's the problem. we've heard a lot of terrible comments from donald trump from past news reports, from during the campaign trail but this is different. this is not locker room talk.

if he had just said, she's hot, i'd like to sleep with her, this wouldn't be a story. yet another terrible thing he said. when he said he's groping and kissing women without their consent, that's sexual assault period. and anyone who has had that moment of fear, am i going to have to physically try to fight him off, understands what this is about. you can hear the entitlement in his voice and you can understand what he's about. it's not good. >> you are already part of the ed mcmullen campaign. it's not a matter of this swaying your vote but when you talk to your friends, maybe not mcmullin supporters and maybe waivering, is this causing the outrage i heard from you from your friends not in your particular camp but conservative women? >> yeah. i've seen a lot of my friends

who aren't necessarily involved with any of the campaigns but in republican politics for a long time and it's a very emotional kind of reaction. i've been seeing a lot of facebook messages since this news broke along the lines, i'm a wife. i'm a mother. i've got daughters or think about my sister or a friend of mine who has survived this kind of thing or even just in the context of having to deal with sexual harassment and a professional context. there is always that fear of if you try to do anything about it, your career is going to be over and somebody like donald trump who has the money and media connections, that's a real fear. the broader context around this. he tried to get nancy o'del fired because he didn't like the fact she was a few months pregnant. didn't like how she looked and didn't like she had refused to sleep with him before. that's disgusting. he was trying to retaliate. any other context if he were in a professional situation, forget

the politics, he would have been the one hearing you're fired. >> quickly, we are short on time but sarah, is it enough for you that members of congress like kelly ayotte and people running for reelection like marco rubio denounce this or should they withdraw their support? >> they have to withdraw the support. this is sexual assault. donald trump has not apologized for his actual conduct. not claimed he was kidding. pretty much admitted it. the republican party won't withdraw it, then they're condoning sexual assault. >> we learned that donald trump tweeted about this. let's throw that tweet up there and he said, certainly has been an interesting 24 hours, exclamation point. your thoughts? >> he's still joking about it. he thinks this is locker room talk. if you look at the way he's treated people throughout this career, people are objects and ways to get what he wants from the vendors he doesn't pay to the women he's harassed and he says he can just grab and kiss

whoever he wants, he thinks this is funny. it's not funny. the future of our country is at stake and i'm not laughing. >> not funny at all. sarah, thank you so much for being here and we hope to have you back. >> thank you, joy. coming up in the next hour, we'll talk to hillary clinton supporter and tv talk show host jerry springer. (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even mer-mutts. (1940s aqua music) (burke) and we covered it, february third, twenty-sixteen. talk to farmer we kn a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmer bum-pdum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

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hurricane matthew has weakened to a category 1 towards south carolina. 1.5 million people have lost power in florida, south florida. blaming for at least 800 deaths in haiti and more in florida. the former mayor of cincinnati joins me to talk politics. you know him better as the host of "the jerry springer show." more "a.m. joy" after the break. ?

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hate the people that took this girl and raped her brutally. you better believe it. and it's more than anger. it's hatred. and i want society to hate them. >> good morning and welcome back to "a.m. joy." one day out from the second presidential debate and while this big topic, while the big topic will surely be the damaging video, donald trump bragging about groping women, there was something else this week that trump should have to answer for as well. it has to do with the central park five. black men as teenagers wrongly convicted of beating and raping a white woman in new york's central park in 1989. just two weeks after the crime, dominating the headlines in new york and before any of the teens were tried, took out a full page ad calling for the boys to be executed. but they were innocent. convicted exclusively on their coerced confessions. spent between 6 and 13 years in

prison and later cleared and the confession of the real perpetrator and won a $41 million settlement from the city for their wrongful conviction. yet, trump still considers the exonerated men guilty. he said as much in a statement this week that said, they admitted they were guilty. the police doing the original investigation say they were guilty. the fact the case was settled with so much against them is outrageous and the woman so badly injured will never be the same. tara and john, former senior strategist for rick santorum's presidential campaign. kurt eichenwald. thank you all for being here. where to begin, tara, you're here at the table with me. the idea that these men who were convicted as teenage boys, thrown into prison, longest for 13 years, there was a statement that came out from one of the central park five who was 14 years old when he was in prison

and said, what more do we have to prove? i'm tired of proving our innocence. knock what this hole thinks. >> i think they should go a step further and sue donald trump for slander. he's always suing people for things he's actually said and done, he sues people for but they should sue him because they had their lives ruined by this and the campaign he led against them, he practically was part of a lynch mob holding up torches trying to take them down further, the campaign against them helped to create public opinion that put a lot of pressure on law enforcement too. people don't talk about that side of it. how you can create a public opinion campaign and influence an outcome of a trial. he hurt those boys their lives, their families, they will never be the same serving jail time for what they did not do. and in a terrible prison.

so they should sue him. and the other point i find very fascinating about this is this is the same donald trump here and now in the present that said he would bail out his protesters, his supporters who were violent against protesters. he said he would bail them out for violence. he has encouraged violence from his own supporters against protesters but yet this is the same man that led a witch hunt against these black men. >> let's put back up to this ad. element six. this is the ad that donald trump took out in 1989 after the central park jogger case. bring back the death penalty. bring back our police. and you have to, kurt eichenwald put into context. he was the real estate mogul celebrity and essentially, our culture was worshipping wealth and that's how he became famous and for him to bring this

celebrity to bear against children was heinous enough but fast forward when a documentary was made about their exoneration about the horrors they went through, donald trump said the central park documentary was a one-sided piece of garbage that doesn't explain these while in the park. they had been exonerated. what kind of a person does that? >> not a good one. what we see here is the perfect example of the psychology of donald trump. you know, it would take a real person to stand up and say, oh, they were exonerated. and it's beyond doubt, they're innocent. i made a mistake. but he can't even say that. he can't even accept the science that shows they're innocent. he can't even accept that the science implicated another person and that other person confessed. this is about as rock solid a

case of, you know, clearly, they're innocent that you can imagine but trump is caught up in one thing. that he led the mob. that he was the one who was pushing and, you know, waving the pitch forks and torches and so you're in a situation where either he has to quadruple down on them being guilty, thus saying, i was right or he has to acknowledge error and this is a man who is psychologically incapable of saying, i was wrong. >> and fernand, the statement about the central park five and said the facts are clear. these men are exonerated and continues to peddle another racist lie. this would have been bigger news if it had not come out the same day but even when donald trump appears to walk something back,

he then doubles down on attacking bill clinton. he doesn't seem to be capable of walking it back even though it is going to hurt him politically with voters of color. >> joy, it's important that you spotlight this central park five issue just like that video but you know what? i don't blame donald trump. i don't have a problem with donald trump. donald trump is donald trump. what's only more insulting than those comments both according to the central park five and now this video from last night is the mock outrage joy that republicans last night, only last night who were shocked, shocked to discover that donald trump is a sexist, racist pig unfit for the presidency when everybody has known that the moment he opened his mouth and called mexicans rapists. this is a ridiculous point in this campaign and if you want to talk about real historical things going forward, let's talk about tr. not teddy roosevelt but trump republicans because it's the cake that's baked at this point. if you are supporting donald

trump and have been prior to last night, it's too late. you don't get a free pass. you don't get to unendorse him or withdraw your support. especially these so-called members of the intelligence committee in the senate and in the house. their job is supposed to assess threats and make certain who is qualified and not that could be bringing damage to the country. they didn't discover that until now learning about the central park five and these vile comments in this tape? it's decemb despicable. tr republicans. >> doesn't look good for donald trump but the larger branding issue here is that trump republicans becomes the way a lot of americans see the gop. you're a communications expert. i mean, i'm sure you acknowledge this is a serious problem for the republican party. not just for donald trump. >> well, but i think you could go bigger than that. i think our country has a big

problem. you have people upset with some terrible horrific remarks that donald trump made. but the paradox here, the other choice is what most americans think is somebody who is also unqualified to be president. roughly 60% of an unfavorable viewpoint of her, almost 80% thought the fbi should have indicted her for past behaviors. so the problem is a bigger one for america. they say both of these candidates at this point is being generally unqualified to be president. and i think probably most americans would rather have mike pence versus tim kaine right now. >> i don't think there's any poll that shows people think that donald trump and hillary clinton are two sides of a coin. there are people who have unfavorable views but are you saying that anything you know about hillary clinton is the equivalent of what we just learned in the last 24 hours, the central park five case is a case of ongoing racism, quite frankly, threats against teenagers, wanting to have them executed. are you saying this is just on

one hand and the other hand? >> let's go to the specifics. donald trump had no personal gain getting involved in this. he decided he was going to stand up for victims. >> they were the victims. >> you agree there are innocent people that sometimes go to jail but there are also guilty people that sometimes go root free. donald trump with his first amendment right believed that they were guilty and decided on his own personal money to stand up and fight for the victim. i don't think, there's plenty of things to criticize donald trump for. i just don't think i this happens to be one of them. >> two things here. i am so tired of the playground mentality of the trump defenders. anytime there's an issue. yes, trump, but now hillary. yes, it is, they can't answer for the candidate they're defending. so the first thing they do is like a 7-year-old say, well, my

sister did this. it is so juvenile and number two, he said, well, yes, but, you know, in the 1980s, he believed this. okay, fine. we accept that. we accept that's what he believed. we accept he exercised his first amendment rights. now let's put that aside and talk about the real issue. and the real issue is this man just came out and said, these five men whose lives were destroyed by a false conviction, i say they're still guilty. you can't change the subject. you can't say hillary. you can't say 1980s. defend what he did this week and stop trying to deceive people, stop lying, and address what your candidate is and what he's done. >> get in here. >> i want to jump in here because i think that this is a

larger problem from a policy perspective. if donald trump is taking this position on these men at this point in time with all the evidence proving they're innocent, at a time in this country we know the criminal justice system treats african-americans differently than it does white americans in this country, this has policy implications for how he will govern and that is what should disturb people. we need to be fixing the criminal justice system to ensure that justice is actually blind and we know it's not blind. and so for donald trump, at a time even his own party acknowledges some of the problems within the criminal justice system. they don't acknowledge all of them but do acknowledge some at a time when the republican party acknowledges the unequal treatment of black people in this country. by the criminal justice system. he does this. it's despicable. and tells you how he would

govern, it would be a worse situation for black people. unequal treatment by the law. our communities would be further ravaged by this double standard, which has huge implications for our community. he said the trump supporters said there's some people and we know there's a lot of people in prison for crimes that they did not commit in this country or where they were given a sentence where a white person did the same thing and was not given a sentence. this is a problem and this is much deeper than just his comments. this has real world implications for black people. >> coerced confessions of teenagers for not, this is somebody who a lot of trump supporters say they're supporting because they want him to appoint the judiciary, they want him to make the supreme court and the republican to do that. what does he say if he doesn't respect the outcome of the judicial process? to kurt's point, still thinks they're guilty and as a candidate for president of the united states is asserting that. >> i think it reasserts what we know. donald trump has no judgment in

this matter. it's almost irrelevant. these details, these story lines that come out. it's important and interesting. but this is beyond the 2016 election. we're going to have elections for president into the future. i think this is about history now and what the leaders of a major american political party now. mitch mcconnell, marco rubio, paul ryan and others who have fallen in line after having seen comments like this for donald trump over the last two years and wait until this 11th hour when it is already beyond the pale. that's, to me, the story here and i go back to what i said earlier, the scarlet letter of tr. that's going to be tattooed forever because that's the question that people ask, where were you when donald trump ran for president? what side were you on? and right now, the only republicans of conscience that i can think of continue to be the bush family who to this day unlike ted cruz and others have not wavered back and forth. they saw what this man was from

the beginning and backed out. kudos to them but all others, look in the mirror, ask where you are. >> absolutely. >> i would throw in senator flake. >> and governor of ohio. thank you very much. >> for hillary clinton. >> i don't think anyone mentioned anything about hillary clinton. >> first of all, you mentioned about donald trump. >> this is about donald trump. about donald trump. >> comes back on the playground. >> you're going to come back later and more thoughts but every person who just spoke, spoke about donald trump. so this is not about hillary clinton. i think one of the things we have to get to as a point. it's not the point. the point is, is donald trump himself morally fit to be president of the united states? that's the question you can answer. >> at the same time, it's hillary clinton morally fit to be president? >> here we are, back at the playground. can't deal with the topic, so goes to her. >> you have to deal with donald

trump himself. >> this segment is about donald trump's comments about the central park five. if you can't answer that about him without bringing in someone else, i don't know what to tell you. we'll let you come back and take another shot at it. back as well. and kurt eichenwald and fe. why donald trump would fit in on his talk show. i was too e kids to get a repair estimate. i was too e liberty did what? yeah, with liberty mutual all i needed to do to get an estimate was snap a photo of the damage and voila! voila! (sigh) i wish my insurance company had th... wait! hold it... hold it boys.. voila! there's supposed to be three of you... where's your brother? where's your brother? hey,here's charlie? charlie?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurce

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he's so blatantly stupid. he's a punk. he's a dog. he's a pig. he's a con. a [ bleep ] artist. a mutt thinks he's gaming society. doesn't pay his taxes. he's an idiot.

colin powell said he's a national disaster, an embarrassment to this country. it makes me so angry that this country has gotten to this point that this fool, this bozo has wound up where he has. he talks how he wants to punch people in the face. well, i'd like to punch him in the face. >> nobody does it like de niro. wow. the trump campaign felt like one big reality show. my next guest, jerry springer, knows a thing or two as he tweeted. hillary clinton belongs in the white house. donald trump belongs on my show. and joining me now is the aforementioned jerry springer, former mayor of cincinnati, ohio, and hillary clinton supporter. great to talk to you. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me, joy. >> i want you to download your thoughts on the last 48 hours of news. never in my milife and i've bee following politics since i was a nerdy teenager, did i think we'd be talking about groping, forced

kissing, vulgarity and the president of the united states, the potential president of the united states in the same sentence. your thoughts? >> yeah, well, first, i would say, you know, people always asking me, where do you find the guests on your show and my answer now is at the trump tower. that's where you find them. the tapes we saw last night reminds me of those old enough to remember during the watergate era where people said these things about nixon but still supporting him and then at the hearings, alexander butterfield said, we have the tapes, everything going on. and once people heard the tapes, once people read what exactly his words were, that was the beginning of the end and then barry goldwater and a couple of other senators went to if i can s nixon and said, you've got to step down.

what happened with all of this is once people see it, now they can't deny it anymore. trump is who he is. and we should have known that. >> we should have known that, i guess is the point. we have heard countless priorities of the super pac, the clinton campaign and the vulgar comments before. you've got to treat them like "s." all you need is a nice piece of "a." his vulgarity is not a secret. why is this particular tape so much more incendiary for republicans than all of that past stuff? what he just said about alicia machado. >> because i don't think these are just words. in this tape, he is not just using bad language or insults. in this tape, he is describing what he does. this suddenly becomes action, not just words. and this is what took it over the line. he talks about what he does to

woman. not just using bad words or off-colored jokes. this isn't locker room banter. this is admitting on tape what you do to women. i am a star. i can get her. i can grab her by her you know what and do what i want to her. if he says that, he shouldn't get anywhere near the white house. >> we have had reality television creep into our presidential politics obviously by way of donald trump but it's not as if this is the first time it's invaded the politically secular. the 1992 presidential campaign was a lot about the pursuit of bill clinton's philandering and making that an issue. it was salacious. and it was a change. people knew that john f. kennedy was a ladies man but wasn't something the press reported. '92 changed that. the impeachment of a president of the united states over infidelity changed all of that. do you think we've reached a point in american politics where it is so gross, so sort of driven by this kind of thing

that we can't go back? >> perhaps. but i think there's nothing on the other side of the ledger to say, well, he said that, but look at his great experience in office. look at how much good he would do for the country. i don't care if he ever did anything bad to a woman. this man has no business being president of the united states. nothing to do with delivering social services. this man is totally incompetent to be president. let him be, he's better on tv than i am. yeah, i get him on television. but the white house? the leader of the free world? the very first job you'll have in politics s oh, can i be president? can i be president? how little respect do we have for our country that we honestly believe that we will turn over our country to a man that knows nothing about world affairs, how you deliver social services, and in his heart, has never been

about, i want to make lives better for other people. everything he's accomplished has been for himself. where in his 70 years has he made life better for other people as the purpose of what he's doing? i don't know why we have this discussion. how can trump be president of the united states? come on. it's crazy, it's really crazy. >> jerry springer, i thank you so much for being here. not only talk show host but a follower of politics and former politician yourself. thank you for yor thoughts. coming up next, something you may not expect because i sure did not expect this. a former member of the never-trump brigade who became a trump supporter, hugh hewitt has changed his mind again. we'll talk to hugh live about why he thinks donald trump should withdraw as the republican candidate for president of the united states. that's next. you ma with ur airline credit card.

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i got to use me some tic tacs. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. grab them by a [ bleep ]. >> on the phone with me now is hugh hewitt, a radio host and friend of the show. hugh, you, sir, have traversed the fruited plane from never trumper to trump supporter to now tweeting, if we could put that up for the benefit of the country, for his own good, donald trump should withdraw. more and worse oppo coming. what about this latest incident finally changed your mind? >> good morning, joy from beautiful bakersfield. it's a beautiful day in california. i've never been a never-trumper, by the way. >> my correction. i stand corrected. >> neutral.

but when i got off the plane, i caught up because i was not on wireless, i was sleeping. i watched donald trump's apologies, slept on it, got up this morning. looked at the reaction and in the tweet this morning, for the benefit of the country, the party, his family and himself, i think he should withdraw and bob toracielli did this in 2002 when it became almost a devastating loss for himself and party and new jersey. it's not without precedent. i think hillary clinton would destroy the supreme court for a generation but i don't think donald trump can win. this is a practical impossibility in politics to come back from. moreover, you and i both know that opposition research save their labest for last. the worst stuff before the election. this is like sixth in line of their drops. first the new york tax returns and now this.

i can only imagine what is in the cannon and i am thinking of marco rubio and rob portman and pat toomey, great republican senators and kelly ayotte, ron blunt, ron johnson in wisconsin. richard burr in north carolina as well as the house majority that speaker ryan leads. the country doesn't need 30 days of what you just played replayed 5,000 times. i hope mr. trump will just think about the country, the party, and his family. i think he's caught now in a cycle where his family is injured terribly and his brand, and step aside. >> is it just about the party? donald trump never expressed that much interest in the republican party's future. in fact, he originally ran to sort of thumb in the eye. for you, is it about the party or is there something this these remarks that, as a moral matter, has made this a bridge too far for you? because donald trump has of course, said vulgar things in the past. they've been on tape, played in

ads. there's an ad running. the clinton campaign has the striking ad with girls looking in the mirror and hear whag ing he said. is it a bridge too far or the future of the republican majorities in the house and senate? >> it's about becoming unelectable. secretary clinton is a terrible choice for president. she will destroy the supreme court and i believe the defense of the united states, her tenure at state led to the egyptian loss for the muslim brotherhood, the libbian intervention. she's a disaster. we can't have her as president. donald trump cannot beat her. i find the remarks to be disgusting and spent all day with my good friend archbishop and peter, the president of westminster and heard a terrific lecture who raised up to be the architect of the constitution. and so to go from there to this

is a, you know, inducing descent to the squalor of politics and the worst sorts of comments on tape that. it's not defensible. i mean, i'm glad he apologized, it's appropriate for him to apologi apologize. people can redeem themselves and i can believe he's actually changed his heart and his behavior. i can take his apology for granted. as a practical matter, i do not know how he can win when you and others will replay this tape and whatever else comes for the next 30 days. i mean, do you disagree with me, joy? it is a devastating blow to him. >> absolutely. >> it's devastating. >> i completely agree with that. absolutely. from your point of view, from the brand, his brand all the way to his presidential prospects, indeed. hugh hewitt. i appreciate i have tht. not just a disem bodied voice on

the phone. see you in st. louis. calls are coming, not just from hugh hewitt. he was not a never trumper but he was supporting donald trump and now planning to withdraw. that is happening beyond hugh. calls for trump to drop out from republicans. what next? that is next.

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[ cougshh. ♪ i have a colwith this annoyinrunny no. better take something. dayquil liquid gels doesn't treat a runny nose. it doesn't? alka-seltzer plus cold and cough liquid gels fight your worst cold symptoms including your runny nose. oh, what a relief it is! with all due respect, you, sir, are the distraction. your conduct is the distraction. from the very principles that will help us win in november. you yourself, sir, mr. trump, have stated repeatedly that the goal, the objective has got to be to defeat hillary clinton in november. i couldn't agree more. it's for precisely that reason, mr. trump, that i respectfully ask you with all due respect to step aside. step down. >> four sitting republican senators and counting have now called on donald trump to drop out of the president issue race

of this. >> i got to have tick tacks after. i am automatically attracted to women. like a magnet. and when you're a star, they let you do it. they can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> that was from "access hollywood," the parent company of nbc news and msnbc. but is there any chance that trump will actually drop out and if he did, then what? ter tara john, katy tur, and ben ginsburg by phone. we have mike crapo of idaho calling on donald trump to drop out. we played senator mike lee. very influential among conservatives. jason has withdrawn his endorsement, carly fiorina is also calling on donald trump to drop out.

how big could this snowball become in your view? >> it is still snowballing and important to note you pretty much listed all of the influential people for the most part in utah right now and also includes the sitting governor of utah and the former governor of utah, both saying that donald trump, they're not going to vote for donald trump. the former governor even saying that donald trump should drop out of the race. carly fiorina is the first one of his rivals to say that he should get out of the race. we do not know whatsoever marco rubio is going to say or ted cruz is going to say. ted cruz has come out and released a statement saying that every wife, mother, daughter, and every person deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. he also calls the comments disturbing and inappropriate and there's no excuse for them. but the question is, if this continues to snowball, how does the republican leadership react? what does paul ryan say at 2:00 today when he's at that fundraiser, that picnic in wisconsin that donald trump was

supposed to be at, and disinvited him from? mitch mcconnell, giving a terse disavowal. is he going to go further and drop his support? is the rnc going to come out and do something? will reince priebus do something? if they do, how does donald trump react? this is a difficult situation for the republican party right now. and it's one that many argue they put themselves in. >> i'll come to you. you're the communications expert here. how do you expect the republican party leadership to react when you have senior republicans including people like mike lee, a lot of influence among conservatives are coming out and telling donald trump to get out. how do you expect the republican party leadership to react? >> i think more important than the leadership is candidates that are in very tough races, kelly ayotte. pat toomey, some of the congressional races. they've sort of stayed away from the trump campaign but now everybody will go back and say, based on now, what you know, are

you going to vote for him and they'll have to answer the question. i think this is going to snowball more. i think this is going to get worse and i think there is going to be pressure on trump. >> you have people like senator ted cruz that's now saying women should be treated with respect. there are people who have been noting with some irony he started phone banking for donald trump even after disrespectful to rted cruz's own wife and a lt of people like marco rubio, my understanding just from talking to folks back home in florida is getting pressure to say something, do something. can a candidate who's in a tight race who needs the trump voters, how do they communicate their way out of this? >> this is going to be a very tough situation for them. they're certainly going to condemn what he said. the question is, will they condemn him and disavow any endorsement they have already given? what will also play a big role that no one is talking about is the donor class. how will the donor class respond to this. i would expect it's not going to

respond well to this. trump is already at a fund raising deficit relative to hillary clinton. this will only make it worse and the donors are going to put pressure on these candidates in tough races. if they think that this could impact those candidates races and remember, a lot of the big donors have gone and put money in the senate rather than supporting donald trump. so they're going to be very concerned about their investments they've made there and wield a lot of influence in the party. >> i'm going to get you in too but joining us by phone, robert costas. i understand you've spoken with donald trump. what can you report for us? >> i had a conversation with trump, as you said, in trump tower today up in new york and he was looking out over the city and i asked him, are you going to quit this race because a lot of people in the party are calling you to leave, some people are very concerned about his comments. and he said, i have never, i'd never withdrawn, i've never withdrawn in my life. he was reflective. in life, i've been through a lot

of things. crisis in life and personal reasons, for business reasons and i pressed him repeatedly about whether he'd leave the race and he said, zero chance. he's not leaving the race. >> robert, is donald trump, because we heard hugh hewitt earlier when he changed his mind and said donald trump should drop out, his reason was primarily because he believes donald trump will lose but he could take down other republicans who were in tight reelection races. did donald trump express concern about the party's prospects and fellow republicans' prospects because of what he did? >> he said the party should stick behind him. he said the party should not start getting skittish. he said he's the nominee. he called himself, quote, change and he's still the best candidate against clinton. it was an interesting moment of acknowledgment when he told me that if he wasn't running against clinton in his mind, secretary clinton then maybe would be a more difficult circumstance right now but he believes in his mind, she's

vulnerable on the issues of trust and other fronts in his view that it makes it okay and more easy for him to stay in this race and keep the party behind him. >> i have a question for katy as well. do you get the sense, a, donald trump wrote that aggressive apology it's been described as and it seems to hint he plans to go after bill clinton in tomorrow thiegtnight's debate o thereafter, where he would like this to go? >> he said he's going to maybe give a speech tonight in new york. he will try to make remarks to encourage supporters and getting ready for the debate. right now, this is a republican presidential nominee sitting in his apartment in new york, fully aware of all the coverage, watching the news, perhaps intently and he says there's only about a month left in the election and wants to close it out on his terms and that's about it. >> that sounds like, i mean, you've been covering donald trump's campaign around the country. never withdrawn in his life. doesn't intend to. the party should stick with him.

is that spriefziurprising to yo? >> no. the party knows he has a very strong and loyal base of support. he has people out there that will not decide that they're not going to vote for him. this is not going to change their minds. if the party tries to take donald trump out and replace him with governor pence, there's a very strong and likely possibility that donald trump supporters will reject that outright. they'll write in donald trump's name if he's not on the ballot for some reason and revolt from the republican party. donald trump has this on his side. that's the part of the reason the republican party had to go along with him thus far. these comments are are not cono surprise to many people. they expected something to come out. people have been talking about it behind the scenes now for months, the possibility of there being tapes out there beyond what we had been hearing from howard stern. so this is not something

shocking to people in the republican party, but he has voters on his side. voters who will not go kindly into that dark night. >> who could take it out on down ballot. i want to bring in bengine gins. people are already voting in some states where early voting takes place. is it even possible for the republican party to remove donald trump as their republican nominee if he doesn't want to go? >> under the rules, i think it's impossible to remove him. he would have to resign. but if he were to resign, there was a vacancy or managed to figure out a way to depose him, still two huge hurdles. one is you said the ballots are printed, donald trump's name is on them. you would have to go state by

state and litigate, for which there is precedence on the senate level to put in a new name on the ballot and then secondly, there are rules in each state involving the electors in the electoral college. remember what we studied in high school. all of the sudden, it's relevant again because you're not actually voting for the presidential candidate. you're voting for electors to gather in the state capitals on december 17th. so if somebody has voted early, their vote for president is not wasted because in fact, they're voting for the electors in the state. not for the candidate. so early voting is less of a concern in a presidential race than a senate or house or gubernatorial race. >> yeah. and you know, just one other point on the fact that you do have somebody like mike lee coming out. jason chaffetz coming out and mike crapo not from utah but mormon, the opposition of somebody like a mitt romney.

is this something that could at minimum take the state of utah out of the donald trump column. you have ed mcmullin from utah, a mormon on the ballot, already polling in the teens. i think at about 13% in utah. state by state, could this wind up having even if donald trump is a wounded but still a candidate with support, states like nevada, states like colorado, utah that have significant mormon populations feel like they're in jeopardy? >> i think certainly evangelical voters and places in utah, that's a problem but the bigger problem to me are where donald trump has been trailing and knead needed to pick up the moderate white college educated women and i don't think this helped that cause. this is a big problem. i think the timing of it is based upon what ben said. it becomes increasingly

difficult to get somebody off the ballot so i think that's why it was released now but this will be difficult to explain to some of the voters we still need to pick up. >> i want to go around to robert costas who joined donald trump speech tonight in new york city. cost at that reporting it will not be a dropout speech. want to go around the table, expectations of what we might expect to hear. katie, you are our resident expert on all things donald trump. what would you expect to hear from donald trump in that speech tonight? >> somebody who describes himself as a survivor. somebody who says he used to be an entertainer. somebody who says maybe i made a mississippi take in the past, but i'm going to fight for you, i'm the champion for your cause. i'm the change candidate. if you don't vote for me, you're going to get more of the same. hillary clinton is going to continue doing what she has been doing for the past 30 years, 40 years, in office. she hasn't been able to be effective. she hasn't protected us from terrorism. she hasn't protected you from losing your jobs. she's for nafta, she's for tpp,

she's for taking jobs overseas. this is why you need to vote for me. don't be distracted by the media. don't be distracted by the democratic party who is trying to say that this disqualifies me. i am the one who will be fighting for you. that is what i expect to hear from donald trump. he could also go off on a tangent, because he's not happy right now. >> yeah, absolutely. >> and that tangent could take him into dangerous territory, which we have seen in the past and that usually involves going on a personal attack against somebody else. and this case, the likely scenario would be potentially a reporter or even -- >> the clintons. >> the clintons exactly. he that is threatened that, alluded to it last night in the statement, saying he would talk about it in the debate and we're going to find out if he holds this. >> what do you think the response from the clinton will be, very briefly, tara. >> i think they're going to continue to highlight his own words. and i've said this before. trump's own words are trump's biggest problem. and i think the campaign will continue to highlight them. continue to just let trump hang

himself with his own words. >> absolutely. thank you very much, tara, katy tur, john bray bender, ben ginsburg and robert cast costa. do not miss katy tur, taking the host chair this afternoon at 2:00 p.m. here on msnbc. watch, dvr and watch it again. more "a.m. joy," next. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all therawork... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face.. no one will forget. sewhat the power of points can do for your business. len more at chase.com/ink

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lots and lots of breaking news. we have just learned that kelly ayotte is no longer going to endorse or vote for donald trump. senator kelley out of new hampshire releasing a statement saying she will no longer vote for donald trump. her statement is on her twitter feed. we've also learned nbc news has also learned that mike pence, the vice presidential running mate of donald trump is no longer going to attend the wisconsin rally attended by reince priebus, scott walker and others. that breaking news coming across

the desk. now for something completely different tomorrow, i will be live in the washington university in st. louis for a preview of the debate tomorrow night. and next week, on a completely different note, you're going to get to see "a.m. joy" at new york comic-con. yes, we talked to kos players of all ages and got some big names to answer some of our big playing questions. >> character. >> right. >> if he was in this universe, who would he vote for, for president? >> i've got to ask you. what would the mayor think of this world, the real world that we're living in today? >> and which presidential candidate is geek icon kevin smith talking about here? >> just relates relentless and irritating, no care for anybody but himself. >> and that was super producer ru

ruiz. we'll take you inside one of the country's largest pop culture conventions. i had a great time. that is our show for today. join us live at 10:00 a.m. eastern. up next, kristen welker picks up our live coverage. stay with us at msnbc. is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work that blazes the path to your passions? your personal success takes a financial partner who values it as much as you do. learn more at tiaa.org

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than cold medicine alone. so you can breathe ... and sleep. shut youmouth and say goodnight mouthbreathers. breathe right. we have breaking news at the top of the hour on hurricane matthew. it officially makes landfall southeast of makansan ville, south carolina. i'm kristen welker in new york. hi noon in the east. 9:00 a.m. out west. first to politics. as if the donald trump for president saga is not sensational enough after the past 24 hours, there are new twists to report as we hit the air right now. so first off, there are new calls from some prominent republican voices for trump to step aside, nug new hampshire senator kelley a yot. and "wall street journal" staying,