our nominee donald trump has let us down again. now let's not beat around the bush about this. the words on that tape were demeaning and they were

shameful. donald trump doesn't have much of a choice at this point. tomorrow night at that debate he needs to throw himself on the mercy of the american people. he needs to take full responsibility for his words and for his actions, and he needs to beg for their forgiveness. >> good morning, and welcome to "a.m. joy" live from washington university in st. louis, site of the second presidential debate. less than 12 hours from now, look at those beautiful people. the debate comes as more than 50 republican elected officials have withdrawn their support from donald trump's campaign, many of them calling for him to leave the race. since predatory remarks he made in 2005 were made public friday night. but trump's response, defiance. he tweeted, quote, the media and the establishment want me out of the race so badly i will never drop out of the race. we'll never let my supporters

down. in fact, the nominee left his trump tower fortress for a few minutes saturday to glad hand supporters gathered outside the building, but as elected republican supporters continue to defect, trump still has a debate to prepare for tonight. trump will square off against hillary clinton here in st. louis at 9:00 p.m. tonight. that creepy conversation on the bus with billy bush will surely come up, and trump will undoubtedly also have to address the fact that so many in his party are fleeing from him. let's bring in msnbc contributor e.j. dionne and a supporter of hillary for america and hugh hewitt. i'm coming right to you, my friend. you are among the republicans who have defected from donald trump's support base. is there anything that he could say tonight during this debate that would change your mind? >> no. i believe he should leave the race for the benefit of the country, the party, his family and himself. tom cotton, the senator whose clip you opened with, is perhaps

one of the people i most respect in politics, combat veteran of the slums of baghdad and harvard law, harvard undergraduate, smart man from arkansas. his tone -- i was with donald trump on friday, but the collapse that has occurred is complete, and among mass attending catholics, mormons and other people of faith it's a wholly different feel over the last 48 hours than it has been. >> e.j., i'll come tyou on that. let's look at the people who have turned on donald trump. there are more than 50 at this point and counting. sort of keeping a running taggy of people who have changed their mind since the tape came out, but we're also finding, politico has a piece out this morning, a morning consult poll shows these guys may not be getting the benefit of switching from donald trump from voters and they may actually be punished from it, because republican numbers in these numbers would prefer that these, you know, candidates had stuck with donald trump, so could this be a double-edged sword for people like tom cotton

and john mccain? >> republicans have a slew of people. trump leading trump apologists and enablers two days ago suddenly have religion and say, whoops, none of that other stuff mattered. it didn't matter that he went after african-americans or latinos or disabled people. that was okay, but now we've got to make the switch. that's a problem for them. i think, secondly, the flip-flopping that's involved on the parts of some candidates, kelly ayotte up in new hampshire the most prominent case where she had to switch within hours of a debate where she said, yes, he's a role model, no he isn't. that's going to be a problem, and then it's still true that donald trump has some real support in the republican electorate. that poll suggests that he won more than half of the primary vote, and those republicans are going to be dispirited. what the republicans are most worried about is turnout. is republicans who will stay home and these close senate races will flip the other way because republicans just won't

show up if trump is still on the ballot. >> yeah. i mean, you do have, this is the morning consult poll that i was referring to, should the republican party stand behind donald trump? 74% of republican voters saying yes. only 13% of them saying no on the question of whether donald trump should end his campaign. only 12% of republican voters saying he should. 70% of democratic voters saying he should, but to e.j.'s point why not? >> right. >> it's not as if there haven't been ads running that show donald trump's comments about women really running for several months. had you what he has said about mexicans to open his campaign, and you now have this sort of deluge of republicans leaving. what do you make of it? >> well, we knew who donald trump was back in 1989 when he put out the central park five ad demeaning teenagers for crimes they didn't commit. >> which is why african-americans have never been interested in him at all?

>> african-americans and women have been trying to tell the american public now and perhaps now they believe us. what you have is a party that doesn't seem him as unacceptable but unelectable. if that gets him to drop the support, fine. we're trying to avert a catastrophe here so we've got to take, you know, any conversions that we can get. >> what can we expect in terms of what hillary clinton will do to respond? hillary clinton really expertly trolled donald trump during that first debate with alicia machado which he reacted to in predictable fashion and then you have this surprisingly smart strategy by tim kaine quite frankly all the interrupting, got pence on the record essentially denying donald trump over and over and over again and saying trump hadn't said that he hadn't said. will bill clinton tonight during the debate use what we now know, the new information about trump's predation quite frankly, about she use that on stage? >> i think that she's going to speak for herself tonight and

i'm looking forward. i think all americans should tune in to hillary speak for herself because i think when we watch the tape, when we listen to what is said on the tape all americans can listen to that and think for themselves and understand that what was said is completely inappropriate. i think that the dehumanizing and demeaning words he's used all throughout the campaign, he's dehumanized mexicans and women and dehumanized black people and dehumanized a mexican judge saying he wasn't able to be fair because of his heritage. this is mart of a pattern, and i think hillary is going to speak to the fact that this is not new. we didn't learn new information on friday. it just confirmed what we already knew. >> i want to stay with you one second and i'll come back to you, e.j. i wonder if it is the specific word which i'm not going to word on a sunday morning because i don't know if my pastor in florida is watching. >> my parents are pastors, i hope not. >> the is it the word, because you were a member of the hillary clinton campaign you were quite a strong and forthright advocate

for women, particularly young women, you and i have talked about issues of sexual assault, campus rape, what women have gone through, everyone has had that encounter with an aggressive man? what do you think is the difference with this particular tape and you'll the previous things that donald trump has said about women? >> i think there's something really powerful when it's not a reported a.p. piece where they are quoting other people talking about what they heard donald trump say. we are hearing it from him, and we see him essentially come off the bus and we know it's him, and i think confirming what we already knew is something very powerful, something visceral. all of us had a very visceral effect about that, something very ehuman nigz, an emotional reaction and response to the dehumanization of women, of people of color, and i think that that's a trend that has been consistent throughout, and it's something that is very disturbing and hopefully will be unacceptable for american voters. >> and to see them sort of walk with the woman after as she she

has been set up. >> i think the striking thing is trump talking one way here on the bus and looking completely different off the bus which only underscores that this guy will say anything at any time and you have no idea what you can believe from him. particularly you can't believe the sort of good guy up front, but i think hillary clinton has an interesting double strategy to pursue tonight. she doesn't want -- she doesn't have to say too much about this. everybody knows about this, and she doesn't need to press him on this. he's already ready to go crazy. i think in the back of her head she has to have the idea that maybe the republicans will force this guy to drop out, maybe. he doesn't sound like that now. >> yeah. >> in which case she also has to use the town hall format to make herself more attractive to voters. she's actually really good at this format. she's done hundreds of town halls. she basically passed barack obama in new hampshire when everyone had written her off as dead in 2008 partly by doing one

town hall after another after another so she's got to keep in main her main target is trump, but she's got to sort of keep in the back of her mind maybe this race will look different in a week or two from now. >> let she go to my never hillary on the end -- >> something -- >> at the debate tonight my hope would be that mr. trump because he's coming would begin by opening up with huma abedin's dismissiveness of the american israeli political action committee that came out in the podesta e-mail and move on to hillary clinton's secret speeches to goldman sachs and move on to the other podesta e-mails where he demeans jake tapper and others and lay out an indictment and bring up egypt, syria and -- >> to what end? you said he should drop out? >> and because it's so important she not become the president. united states and not destroy the supreme court for 40 years i'm withdrawing and asking you to vote for mike pence. that would be a historic moment. it would redeem his family and save his brand which is on fire. it would give him some dignity at this point because more is

coming, and i don't know about what you've seen, but i've seen a guy benson report from townhall.com that at least two more hits are coming. so if you think it's bad today. if he throws fire and brings up former president clinton's indiscretions tonight which is a disaster and argued, answered, impeached, embarrassed, disbarred, but if he brings it up. >> i'll ask you that. what would hillary clinton do in response if the response of donald trump is to essentially open his remarks with a barrage of bill clinton's fast foibles from the '90s and just go full on in that direction. >> i think that there's a risk that that would turn off many american voters who don't want to hear about what happened in their personal life. that's something that happened in a marriage. i think we understand that their lives and that we should get back to the issues. i mean, a lotf this is important because we're not that you canning about the issues. we're not talking about what our vision is for the country, how we want to make people's lives better, but at the same time some of the things that donald

trump is saying are about the issues, right. if you're dehumanizing women and also legislating and taking away their rights and their freedom to make reproductive health care choices those things line up pretty clearling, and i think that it's just -- it's an unfortunate turn of events here that we're reaching right now. >> to say nothing of the fact that donald trump has taken on new meaning. >> and also you have there in donald trump someone who is not likely to protect victims. just had a sexual assault bill of rights signed on friday by president obama. >> yeah. >> and you have here a guy on tape bragging about committing sexual assault. >> yeah. >> i think what we need to do is recognize that's what it is and also understand that this maybe hopefully can lead to more women being believed when they tell you that these things are happened. >> surrounded by people like steve bannon and rudy giuliani, their own records of how they operated with women does not exactly make you hopeful. >> thank you all for being here. we'll be back later in the show.

after the break, it's supposed to be a moment of matter unity. with speaker paul ryan standing with donald trump for the first time but that's not what happened. more from the scene in wisconsin next. ♪ using 60,000oints from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... anplants neededo give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink no one will forget. heythere's a more enjoyabley! way to get your fiber. see what the power of points can do for your business. try these delicious phillips' fiber good gummies, a good source of fiber to help support regularity. mmmm. these are great.

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keeping the power lines clear,my job to protect public safety, while also protecting the environment. the natural world is a beautiful thing, the work that we do helps us protect it. public education is definitely a big part of our job,

to teach our customers about the best type of trees to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. let me just start off by saying there is a bit of an elephant in the room, and it is a troubling situation, i'm serious, it is. i put out a statement about this last night. i meant what i said, and it's still how i feel, but that is not what we're here to talk about today. >> a bit of an elephant. saturday night was supposed to be a high point for donald

trump's campaign. the first time house speaker paul ryan backed up his endorsement by publicly campaigning with him. instead, it turned out to be one of the campaign's lowest moments because after hearing the audio recording of trump's sexually aggressive comments towards women ryan disinvited him from the wisconsin fund-raising event where they were scheduled to appear together. then, after trump said mike pence would be going in his place, pence promptly backed out. now i want to go to milwaukee and bring in scott ross, executive director of one wisconsin now and charlie sykes, editor and chief of rightwisconsin.com. charlie, let me go two for this. what was the reaction of conservatives and republicans in wisconsin when donald trump didn't show up and mike pence didn't show up? >> yeah. well, it's too bad nobody warned them this might work out badly. look, i think that paul ryan and other republicans recognized this was going to be the photo-op from hell. obvious this was not going to take place and came up with a

face-saving way of finessing this. that statement that paul ryan issued was cold and harsh was the breaking point. when you go back and you look at this campaign, i think our going to see that moment in which paul ryan said i'm not going to stand with the nominee of my party was really the signal for republicans to abandon ship, and what had been a trickle became a flood after that. the question is, you know, is it too little too late? you know, are people really, really surprised to find out that donald trump was who donald trump has been? did they really not know who this man was? but i think at this point the recognition is this presidential race is pretty much over so republicans have to decide how many of them are they going to save and will they be able to distance themselves from this train wreck between now and november 8th and i'm not sure they will be able to. >> charlie, you know, you've been a never trumper from the very beginning, and it's not as if people like you who are conservatives who were warning the party. why do you suppose paul ryan stuck with donald trump all this

time? i mean, he's seemed tortured and tormented and stuck with him through thick and thin. didn't need him for his own primary. he walloped the trump supporter who ran against him. why do you think he stuck with him, and do you give replicans who are only now defecting credit for walking away only now when they have been with the guy all this time? >> that's the question. i mean, you know, paul ryan's position has been untenable for a long time to say this is a textbook example of racism and i still support him for president. no, i don't want to stand next to him in my own state and let's make him the most powerful man in the world. i think paul ryan made a bad political bet. i think he figured that as speaker of the house he needed to protect his majority, that this was his job to be able to do this, maybe that -- maybe in some alternative universe donald trump would pivot and become presidential and, you know, would be the person that he obviously is not, but now i think he's got to make the decision. this is a real test, and i do think it's probably going to be

too late, but here is the real test. do you want to go down with this guy? as hugh hewitt mentioned, this debate is likely to be a disaster. there are more oppo hits to come. the question is are you still going to be held hostage to all of that, or are you at least going to say, look, at the end of the day, no, i don't want to -- i don't want to be, you know, tainted with this support. >> yeah. but scott, as -- as a representative of probably the contingent that's going to stick donald trump to wisconsin republicans for the end -- until the end of time, are democrats going to allow any republican out of wisconsin to slither away from donald trump unscathed? >> well, joy, i would say this. you know, wisconsin has been -- this isn't chickens -- this is chickens coming home to roost. wisconsin has been a laboratory of the dehumanizing of political opponents and the verdictization and the vilification of really of people in order to achieve

republican political ends. you know, we've seen rights all across the state of wisconsin stripped away as part of the republican machine, and that's, you know, african-americans, latinos, women, you know, the lbgt community, poor people, teachers, teachers and nurses and the people who build our homes and build our roads, and i think that it's not enough -- you know, as charlie said. this was a face-saving effort that turned into a giant face palm, and it's not enough simply to disinvite donald trump from coming to your picnic, scott walker, ron johnson continue to endorse donald trump and absolutely democrats are going to hang that around their neck. >> reince priebus, a denizen of the state. let me play really quickly sound of a whom who was actually at this wisconsin gop event. she's a trump supporter. this is what she had to say on the question of essentially whether republicans should run away from trump. take a listen.

>> everybody at some point in their lives has said and done something that we regret. so let's hope that we can be forgiven and move on. >> charlie, isn't the likely outcome here that the voters who have supported donald trump are not gog to punish donald trump for that tape, they will punish the republicans walking away from him and if ron johnson is one of him, he's going to lose even more than he was probably already going to lose to run feingold. >> i'm not going to disagree. this won't move the hard core trumpkins that made it clear that nothing will matter. it will affect a lot of suburban republican women in southeastern wisconsin, the voters who did not vote for him during the primary and will be real turned off by all of this, but, you know, people like ron johnson, paul ryan, scott walker, there's no upside at this point except

to do the right thing. at some point you have to make the decision. when you look back on your life, you know, will anybody regret the fact that they took a stand and said, okay, you know what, we were wrong. this guy is not fit to be president, or will they be proud that they cynically stayed where they are, but i don't see -- i mean, this is part of the problem. this is what we never trumpers had warned the republican party would happen. this was inevitable. it was not just foreseeable. it was absolutely inevitable, and it's playing out, you know, and here we are. >> yeah. well, let me -- let me, charlie, play you a soundbite of the latter of the two options sounds like. this is rudy giuliani who is sticking with donald trump to the bitter end. one of his fiercest defenders. they have some similarities on things like the marriage history and things like that and he's become a staunch defender and is replacing other trump staffers and surrogates across the sunday show and take a listen to rudy giuliani this morning. >> is there any chance that

donald trump is going to listen to these republican party leaders that are begging him to withdraw? >> i think he answered that yesterday but saying he's in the race and is going to remain in the race. he was selected by more republican voters than anyone has ever been selected in a republican primary. he owes them the duty to run. >> so scott, you do have the staunch defenders that are going to stick with donald trump to the -- to the bitter end, even at the expense, as charlie put it, of looking back on their own history saying they were in this with him, but i do wonder in terms of the senate race, which most people believe the democrats were going to win anyway, will there be a longer memory, for instance, of scott walker who i presume is not going toun again, but you've tended to see democrats sort of fade in off years and forget that outrageous, including the union bill, et cetera. do you think that donald trump has given democrats some staying power in terms of maintaining their outrage long enough to actually, i don't know, show up in mid terms? >> you know, i think it's hard

to say because the republicans have been very good after elections at coming back together and saying, listen, the democrats are our enemy and hillary clinton will be the worst president we've ever had within six months of her being inaugurated. you know what, the policies are not going to change. the same thing republicans were arguing before trump are the same things they are arguing after trump and i know for myself. we're in court next week because governor walker wants to take await rights of african-americans to be able to vote in elections and that's not going to change after this election is over. you're going to have to continue to fight for things like that, and you're going to continue to see the same things going on and on again, and i'll give you one other exam. democrats are fighting in wisconsin, you know, and across the country to refinance your student loan like you can a mortgage while republicans are attacking, you know, democrats for passing a bill that would allow dreamjeanneeal

dra draemers to receive instate tuesday. let's come together as a station and a nation for once and all. >> let me answer the question that you asked that, yes, this is potentially is going to hurt scott walker badly and every republican badly into the mid terms. >> all right. weal, thank you very much, scott ross and charlie sooirks appreciate you both being here. all right. up next, had a contentious moment on "a.m. joy" and i asked pole store mark murray to come on and set the record straight. if you have a typical airline credit card, you only earn uble miles when you buy stuff from that airline. wait...is this where you typically shop? you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card.

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anywhere from 12% to 25% of african-american voters have expressed for mr. trump and his candidacy. >> one out of four. that one of my guests yesterday on the mythical african-american groundswell for donald trump that has become a talking point among some of his supporters. in fact, in recent polling of african-american voters conducted last week by cbs news, black voter support for donald trump actually looked like this. 7, and that's in a poll with a plus or minus 4% margin of error indicating the sample size wasn't very large. as for the data used by trump and his surrogates as supposed evidence of african-american support, the sources this "l.a. times" ow usc daily tracking poll that as of october 8th had trump support among black voters at 12.6%. as one opinion researchers described it to the "l.a. weekly" this poll is an extreme outlier compared to every other national pot. joining me now to help parse the polls and make sense of the

numbers is my super wonk friend nbc news political editor mark murray. danger this could go on for an hour. i love this stuff and love polls. let's first talk about the "l.a. times" poll. why does that poll show different than everything else? >> it's a republican-leaning poll. the poll was done by using the 2012 romney versus obama vote as a baseline and everything is weighted to that and what they decided to do is obama plus 2 over romney and controlled for that. >> yeah. >> when you look at almost every other poll out there including our nbc/"wall street journal" it's usually obama looking back with a 15-point lead. the reason why, when people are surveyed four years later, even longer, they often don't admit they voted for the losing candidate so by this poll basically controlling and weighting for 2012, the almost actual national vote for mitt romney, that you're almost surveying more republicans than you normally would. >> do you believe there's any data that could back up the

claim that nearly one in four african-americans support donald trump? >> outside that one poll, joy, every poll that i've seen shows donald trump within what mitt roey is doing which is probably close to 5%, 6%. >> i can back that up anecdotally. i don't know black republicans supporting donald trump. well, do i know. we've them on the show. let's show the nbc news battleground map and put it up on the screen. what does it show is the state of play as of now? >> it shows hillary clinton is on the cusp of 270 electoral votes. not there. move new hampshire back to tossup which had been in her column. there's analytics as well as our own reporting that shows that race is not a done deal just yet. >> okay. >> all she has to do is win new hampshire to be plus 270 and win florida to be plus 270. her path is very easy. donald trump meanwhile has to run the table. >> yeah. >> he has to win all of pens person, all of ohio, all of florida, all of north carolina to be able to get to 270

electoral votes. that's a very -- >> has to win half a dozen states and can't lose any of them. >> let's go now to iowa. "des moines register" poll showing donald trump ahead in iowa. this poll was october 3 through 6. not taking into account the tapes. >> correct. >> he's up 43% and 39 and johnson at 6 and jill stein. i'm looking at that the gary johnson number. as he sinks, it's hillary clinton that's benefiting from it, not donald trump. is that normal? >> well, one, it is normal that that number could actually go down after we have that debate. the first debate when gary johnson isn't on the stage, jill stein, most people say i have one or two choices to be able to make and what we've actually seen though is that that vote is the more persuadable. >> yeah. >> if she had a good debate performance, it's not surprising that that vote is maybe ticking to her just a little bit more. >> yeah. >> but you mentioned the iowa poll. "des moines register" is a great poll. iowa was donald trump's best state and that's what the situation was before friday, but, still, you kind of rank almost all the battleground states. iowa is his best one.

>> let's go to pennsylvania and florida. donald trump absolutely would have to take pennsylvania away. republicans always say they are going to win pennsylvania. they never win pennsylvania. let's look at our numbers, hillary clinton has a commanding lead, 49-37. is that anything that you could see being reversed? >> very hard and here's what's propelling her right now in our poll. she is destroying donald trump in philadelphia as well as the philadelphia suburbs, a place with some even ground between barack obama and mitt romney in 2012. also notable she's wing college-educated whites by nearly a 2-1 margin. >> again, this is like mitt romney. democrats have never won the college-educated white vote, ever. >> let's throw florida up there. florida also very close. could be the closest state. >> it's been in the past. our poll has it hillary plus three, and, you know, as you know in 2012, in 2008, it wasn't a three-point -- >> 2012 was just one-point margin so she is in good

position, but florida races are always close. >> always close. talking about if not break. gets up to four points, watch out, marco rubio, that's what could take him down. thanks, my wonk friend. much more live coverage from st. louis after the break. what. communication. that's why a cutting edge university counts on centurylink to keep their global campus connected. and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and y a leading car brand counts on us to keep thr dealer network streamlined and nimble. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.

(gasping) are you all right? i was in a room full of light.

you were financially secure - it was glorious. how do you know that? i work at ally - it's my job to know about finances. what else did you see? did i have a speedboat or anything? toss me back in, i'll check. he's finding out if i have a speedboat! nothing ops us from doing right by our customers. ally. do it right. negative on the speedboat. why did he choose to apologize for in? >> in case, we're talking about his personal behavior, and his -- his statements that were absolutely wrong and i think when he heard them he was shocked. i'm not saying he didn't remember them and not on the top of his mind and when he was confronted. he wasshocked he said such

things. here with me now maria chapel nadal. the president of the bernard center for politics and public policy and jamal and hugh and we're in the 14th senatorial district and i will come to you first and thank you for welcoming you to our district. wh do you expect to hear tonight, what these constituents want? >> we have two issues happening in the 14th centrally district. one is ferguson and we have throughout the senate district and in other places and we have a landfill that has had a smouldering fire in it at the same time. this has been an issue that has been neglected for decades. we have seen failure after failure are you the nuclear

regulatory commission as well as the epa so we're looking for these candidates to, one, address ferguson in a substantive way as well as looking at the concerns that are harming people in the district and causing cancer clusters. >> first on ferguson, what have you made of donald trump's response? he has responded on issues like ferguson by saying he would like to see more stop and frisk and by expressing support for police. what do you make of those? >> every single thing that mr. trump has said has been offensive to the community that i represent. he is in my opinion a degenerate. he is someone does not calculate the way people feel and where they want to go in the future so it's very important for him to know that we are looking to, one, always have our first amendment rights. i think it should be the concern of every single person at this table that he is most interested in limiting our first amendment

rights and i'm really nervous with a trump administration because he would take away our bill of rights and he would also make it very easy for us to go into a world war iii, and at this point americans should be looking out for our welfare. we are americans first and having a trump administration is simply going to take us back a century at least. >> and at the same time, michelle, you know, hillary clinton also has the responsibility to make an affirmative case, right, because she still has to be concerned that voters who may be appalled by donald trump for one reason or another don't stay home in disgust. she still has to make an affirmative case for herself. what would be a smart affirmative case for her to make on these and other issues? >> hillary clinton needs to come out very strong tonight, not only because of voters who say they might just stay home but there are still people, even women, who have gone on television, gone on radio and are writing about the fact that they continue to support donald

trump and are still going to vote for him, so the affirmative case she needs to make tonight is, one, particularly here in missouri, that she understands the plight of black women. she understands the blight of african-americans who have sons and daughters that they are worried about, whether it is the landfill problem here in missouri or toxic water that we've seen, you know, in michigan, that she understands that black lives matter, that she -- and that she's going to put forth policy proposals that will have a positive impact on the lives of women and their children, their husbands, on -- on every issue, whether it's education, national security, terrorism, and sort of just, you know, leave donald trump to continue to sort of, you know, hopefully incarcerate him level. >> yeah. you know. it's interesting on the subject of women, there was supposed to be a woman representing donald trump on the sunday shows. her name is kellyanne conway. she did not do that. this was -- i want to show you the list that we got, that the media all got of who would be on

the sunday shows yesterday. so yesterday our understanding was that not only with reince priebus be on the sunday shows, but that kellyanne conway would be as well representing donald trump which you would think, hugh hewitt, would be a smart thing to do, to have a woman out there answering for you given the news psych. this is who is on the sunday shows. that is today. rudy giuliani, rudy giuliani, rudy giuliani, replacing apparently not only reince priebus but also kellyanne conway. what does that say to you? >> says that everyone needs a friend like rudy giuliani and everyone deserves a family like donald trump has. his adult children are sticking by and also at a cries moment it is that individual and family that have to speak to you. and i hope they do, that they break through the cocoon and speak to him. there's a robert redford brace of movies in 2012 and 2013. 2012 he made "the company you keep" about a 1960's weather

ground radical on the run from their past. hillary clinton, and then in 2013 he made a movie "always lost" about a lone voyager who is on a desperate and ultimately not successful effort to save his solo sailboat, and so if you like robert redford and everybody does, go watch those movies today after the indians beat red sox, after the browns beat the patriots and see where she is in the cane. she's running from the past and he's running from the -- >> the cleveland contingent here, sir? >> if the republican party wants to be a party that actually does speak to women, to people of color, then they have to actually come out and speak to those issues that concern those constituencies. if one of your people, specifically your presidential nominee, makes comments that are offensive to women, brags about committing sexual assault, then you need to be a party that comes out and condemns that. you cannot hide and cannot say

oh, well it's convenient or, wow, my timing suddenly became bad. have you to come out and condemn those things. otherwise you stand for them. >> do you think kellyanne conway is herself walking away from being the face of this campaign or do you think they decide -- >> maybe she's having some buyer's regret, i don't know. frankly, she's in charge of this campaign. she needs to come out and speak for it. >> i would just add, donald trump is in charge. campaign, and i think my perspective is it's a smart thing that kellyanne conway is now the on the sunday morning shows this morning. there is no way to defend donald trump, and her job, if it can be done, is to explain to donald trump the extraordinary mistake and mess that he has made of his campaign. >> we are out of time, but i want to thank you for welcoming us. we love this campus. it's a gorgeous campus. beautiful people. thank you so much for welcoming us here. all right. thank you.

hugh will be back. >> next up we'll speak to evan mcmullen on why he thinks the guy that should get the republican votes that are fleeing the trump train. maybe he can recruit hugh hewitt to support him and first the late on hurricane andrew. that's next. stay with us.

there is so much more "a.m. joy" live from washington university in beautiful st. louis, missouri. we're just a few hours away from the second presidential debate. look at the signs live on msnbc, and up next i'll talk to two student leaders here at wasu about their take on the presidential campaign. stay with us. with theight steps, 80% of recurrent ischemic strokes could be prevented. and i'm doing all i can to help prevent another one. a bayer aspirin regimen is one of those steps in helping prevent another stroke. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

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this year the number of voting age millenials, wow, they are so loud and excited, is now nearly equal to the number of baby boomer voters, and that could mean big things for this

election. joining me now is jimmy lewis, president of the college democrats here at washington university in st. louis and the president of the college republicans. now, if you cover up their signs, can you tell who is the democrat and republican. i got it wrong. let's start with you rubin. donald trump on this campus, popular, not popular, are you a supporter? >> great question. >> the club has decided not to endorse donald trump and it was actually a fairly gradual decision that didn't happen all at once. during the primary when we were deciding which candidate to back very few individuals gravitated towards donald trump and many of us didn't take his candidacy seriously. >> now that he's the nominee, what is your club doing? what is your position? >> you know, this is a great time to focus on down ballot candidates. we are still republicans. we're a republican club, not a donald trump club. there's plenty of other places to become engaged even though the presidential election is stealing the show right now. >> do you think he's hurting the party among young people?

>> absolutely, absolutely. >> for you guys obviously now things aren't looking good for donald trump so there's probably a lot of high-fiving and, you know, cork popping but it's still early. you still have down ballot race, still important. how do you keep young democrats on this campus excited, engaged and are they excite about hillary clinton? >> without a doubt. i think that this millenial aren't excited about hillary clinton is completely false. look at all these people here who support hillary clinton. you know, we're extraordinarily fortunate to have this opportunity to host this debate, the opportunity for civic engagement has never been greater in terms of our candidates for governor candor and hillary clinton who will hard work will be put in the white house come november. >> that's an interesting question for the time in your lives when you're real engaging with issues, having the lunchroom conversations about politics. do the college republicans and the college democrats interact? is there sort of, you know, is there camaraderie between you? is that existing here on this campus? >> we actually put out a press release reaffirming our

commitment to a civil, open and respectful dialogue because come tonight we want to be the adults in the room and set the example for the thousands of americans who have become disenchanted with the political process that they won't vote in november. >> we've coordinated more in the mast and it's a great example of bipartisanship. right now the country is polarized and our clubs are trying to set an example of how people who disagree with engage in an intellectual way aeven though we have differences. >> all right. will you two be our presidents. love trumps hate. your thoughts on the election, i'm going to presume you're a hillary clinton supporter but why? >> did i catch you off guard? >> her -- >> that's okay. that's okay. i'll come back. some of these guys. you're adorable.

what do you think? why is this election important for people your age? >> well, first of all, with the supreme court nomination, these are like decisions that are going to like affect the rest our life and i think it's really important for us to become informed about issues that we really care about so that we can make a good decision come november. >> let me get a trump supporter if i can find one. can i find a trump supporter if you can follow me. with the video that you heard come out, the 2005 comments, did it trouble you as both a woman and a trump supporter? >> honestly there's so much at stake in our country right now. haven't we all said regrettable things in our lives? >> i doubt many people have said those particular things. >> by the way, well, you know what, trump also hasn't left our american soldiers to die in benghazi. >> that is something that we do hear often from people who are republicans. >> yeah. >> there were eight investigations of it, did you -- does it bother you at all that all those eight investigations, all by republicans, found no

culpability of hillary clinton? >> donald trump is our gop candidate because the american people are tired of the status quo and hillary clinton is part of the status quo. >> you're shaking your head but we have to go. we're going to do a quick show of hand. trump supporters cheer. hillary supporters. >> all right. i think we have our answer. so much more "a.m. joy" after the break from wasu. mom, i have to tell you something. dad, one second i was driving and then the next... they just didn't stop and then... i'm really sor. i wrecked the subaru. yore ok.ed it. that's all that matters. (vo) a lifetime commitment to tting them home safely. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

this is a man who has called women pigs, slobs. we have had a long record of this behavior. >> i was going to say something

extremely rough to hillary, to her family, and i said to myself i can't do it. i just can't do it. it's inappropriate. it's not nice. >> good morning and welcome back to "a.m. joy." hard to believe the first presidential debate was only two weeks ago given the astonishingly surreal developments that have surfaced since and tonight it happens all over again. in about ten hours hillary clinton faces donald trump for their second showdown, this time in a town hall style debate right here in st. louis, missouri. trump is returning to the stage as fallout continues over a 2005 video in which he bragged about groping women and kissing them without their consent. he even had to emphasize on twitter on saturday that he'll, quote, never drop out of the race. will never let my supporters down, unquote. after nearly three dozen republican lawmakers denounced his behavior towards women and a number openly called on him to step aside and let someone else be the republican nominee. how will the trump scandal shape

tonight's debate and what version of trump will show up on stage with hillary clinton? back with me are e.j. dionne and steve cortes, a trump surrogate and member of the national hispanic advisory council for donald trump. thanks for coming here. i'm going to the right side of the table. steve and i, our actual debut on set together. thanks for being here. >> nice to be in the flesh, and we've got the britney spears microphones on. >> closest i'll ever got. >> your sequinned outfit is coming. steve, let me get your response because you've been a stalwart supporter of donald trump all the way through. >> right. >> a lot of people are trumping off the trump train. hugh hewitt in our previous hour is one of them. right. are you still in support of donald trump? >> i do have great respect for hugh. i disagree. i don't think that's time to

drop support. his comments were repugnant. i have a wife and three daughters. it's deeply offensive i.ew up with four sisters and surrounded by strong women my entire life. if i believed donald trump were the man who said those things, i would not be a supporter, and i would be turning on him. however, i believe that was over a decade ago. he has apologized now unreservedly. i accept his apology. his wife accepted his apology and i think that we face a choice between hillary clinton and donald trump and the choice is stark in my opinion on the division for america. status quo versus growth and security and having said all of that, he's got a tough task tonight, no doubt about it. >> what is he going -- politico described kind of like the darkest terms, the state of the trump campaign right now. a lot of people are dispirited inside the office. it's unimaginable what he could come out and say and to be fair to you, i understand your reasons for being with donald trump. it's more -- it seems to be more

economic. >> sure, absolutely. >> but donald trump is also the guy who went after alicia machado and called her miss piggy and continued to go after his weight. it's not as if he stopped being crude towards women and that was describing assault. it wasn't just being bawdy. what can he say tonight? >> i'm not going to excuse. i believe in forgiveness. i believe in redemption, and unlike hillary clinton i don't believer he's irredeemable. i don't believe i am. i don't believe i'm deplorable. i would like for her -- >> she didn't say she's sorry for calling us deplorable. talking about. neo-nazis and they are deplorable. >> yes, they are. >> she was talking about the neo-nazis. >> of course white supremacy is deplorable. >> of course. >> yes. >> steve cortes. >> i'm a minority. that's not news. >> let's not forget, he and

pence would fwhot say david duke was deplorable as well. >> that's semantics. they have denounced david duke so many times >> have they? >> they endorse the donald trump, not the other way around. there are wackos in every movement. when have you a -- there are wackos on the left as well and to point them out as representative of the candidate is totally unfair. >> what does it say that the quote unquote whackadoodles came out of of the closet so to speak when donald trump became the nominee of the republican party. there's something to be said about the fact that people who you would normally wouldn't nothing to do with feel that it is completely appropriate to say things about women that are, you know, abhorrent, about latinos and african-americans and the gay and lesbian community and they would not have done so if donald trump were not the -- >> i want -- let's get in some sound and people are calling themselves deplorable.

>> they are on the record as sake deplorable. >> they are saying they are deplorable. >> let's look -- play the new hillary clinton ad. they have already worked in donald trump's new comments. this is what you're up against in terms of what the voters will be hearing and seeing in this campaign. take a look. it came out friday. >> i better use some tic tacs in saturday. i'm automatically started attracted to women. it's like kissing them, like a magnet, and when you're a star they let you do it. you can do everything. i moved on her like a [ bleep ] and i couldn't get there and she was married. she's totally changed her way. >> mr. trump, women are going to be the reason that you're not elected to be president. >> and now i want to show you where independents are going right now in this campaign. a quinnipiac poll of independents, october 5th through 6th. now hillary clinton is at 46 and donald trump at 32. since september 6 hillary clinton has gone up by 11 points and trump drown by 10. this is a trend not going in the

right direction and on the gender gap in that same poll women and men, a 20-point gender gap in favor of hillary clinton and unlike in previous years, where democrats don't win white women, hillary clinton is crushing donald trump among college-educated white women. >> i think that makes complete sense. this is i believe before the friday tape, right, so let's see what happens after tonight and, you know, since after the taping. i just want to say this. you know, especially with the republicans no are saying i'm un-endorsing donald trump. this tape is not an isolated incident. >> exactly. >> and that's the thing that we need to understand. he has -- he's spent the last 16 months attacking minorities. he spent five years lying about birtherism, you know, to the american people, not just to black people but to the american people and so there is -- there's nothing new here in the sense of that, this is the same rhetoric that donald trump has been putting out, the same sentiment that donald trump has

been putting out and what the republicans are doing right now it's not about moral objection. it is about the political like saving their political, you know, seflz, right, and they are making a calculation here. >> right. >> that is just the craziness of this election that we are today that all of a sudden you're jumping ship but what about when he -- when he came down the escalator and called mexicans rapists? >> hold on. >> and criminals. he did say that. he called -- >> he shade there are some -- among illegal immigrants. >> that's what he sdwlad that's not what he said. >> he said whenexico sends its people they are not sending their best, they are sending rapists. >> in the context of illegal aliens, but listen, i think this is important. we don't agree on much. >> before you go on any further. had this debate before because we got into a debate of you finding it very offensive for people to be called deplorable. if people are offended by illegal ail yearnings you don't care and if people are offended

by deplorable, even if people are calling it themselves, you think it's the height of defense and the equivalent calling women fat and miss piggy and saying what he said on the bus. >> joy, illegal alien is a description. >> so is deplorable. >> if you do something illegal, it is illegal. if you steal something, you're not an undocumented holder of a good. >> they are an undocumented person. >> undocumented makes it sounds like their paperwork in order. >> the point is hypocrisy don't offend me by calling people around donald trump deplorable. it's about the sense of your own sense of offense versus other people. >> that's not true. i don't mind offending someone who is breaking our law. that's significant. if you break the immigration laws of the united states, it's offensive to americans but -- but legal immigrants who are doing it the right way. >> here's the difference between today and two days ago.

it is absolutely right that republicans have l go all of these other comments, so many republicans, and said,well, that was bad, but we still can support him or they didn't even say it was bad. the birtherism has never been a problem for them from the beginning. suddenly now, right before this debate, you have republicans out there, mostly for purely political reasons. >> right. >> opening up this whole debate and then suddenly they are legitimizing the arguments that people made against trump. >> exact. >> i for a long time. >> the best argument trump has is where were all these republicans before? if i'm so bad why are they jumping ship now? >> because he's a loser. because they know he's going to lose and we're 30 days out. >> the the lawyer in me would be remiss if i don't say analogous to your point, steve, about we are a nation of laws. however, an undocumented immigrant in the united states does not scare me. what scares me is a man, if we

go back to p-gate has it's been called who will ask fora tic tac for kissing a woman and can do whatever he wants to a woman and can grab her private parts because he's a celebrity and that's against the law. it's sexual assault, and if we're going to talk about a names of laws, we really have to be focused on the facts that the leader of the republican party is a self-admitted person, proponent of sexual assault, because that's what it is, and it's not -- >> exactly right. >> if someone walked up to his daughter and said i'm a celebrity, therefore i'm entitled to grab your private parts, i think donald trump would have a problem with that. >> and he said it was okay to refer to her in a way that's so vulgar that i'll not refer, talking about his daughter. had you a point. >> and then the apology. can we talk about the apology for a second, the non-apology. there wasn't an apology at all. what it looked like to me, it

looked like that he was being kept hostage, right, and it was being produced by, you know, kellyanne conway. that's what it looked like. he didn't apologize for the act. he didn't apologize to his wife who was pregnant at the time. >> he absolutely did apologize to his wife. >> in that video. >> what business of ours is it that he has to do it publicly? >> what he ended up doing is i'm going to take this race further into the gutter, you know, and then he went after bill clinton. i mean -- >> his apology was the right thing to do. he had to do it at that point, but speaking of apologies, i'm still waiting for hillary clinton to apologize to the benghazi families for lying to them feet away from the caskets. >> and we have the benghazi. >> benghazi. >> we pivot to hillary clinton. >> there's dead americans. >> no, we're not -- >> i think about every woman who still believes that a vote for

donald trump means that when they go into the workplace, if he's elect the and the day after his inauguration, they go into the workplace and somebody decides that they are going to grope them hand sexually harass them, if they actually believe a donald trump, eeoc, is going to pursue a sex discrimination claim against them. >> and the policy question, and let's stay on this topic. i understand the talking point pivot, i get f.i've worked in campaigns, but i want you to stay on topic for me, steve. >> sure. the point that i think michelle made that is sailient is that the president of the united states is the wleerd of the executive branch meaning he has control of the justice department, he has control of appointing the head of the eeoc and control of the things like the fbi. this is a person who has demonstrated a lack of respect for the courts in terms of what he said about judge kur yell. he's demonstrated in his own -- out of his own mouth the sense of entitlement to assault women sexually. what in donald trump's history, in anything he said or done, makes you believe that he would

appoint a judiciary and heads of those agencies that would respect the rights of women and people of color? >> when it comes to being president, i think that what americans most want and need right now, there's such angst and anxiety out there in the country. >> answer my question. >> why is he qualified to take the he wille. federal government? >> what makes you think he would appoint people to those agencies to the point michelle that just made that would be fair and respect the rights of women and people of color? give me one thing in history? >> one of the reasons i'm very proud. trump campaign is the way it has diligentry reached out to minority voters, something the republicans have not done at all in previous elections, largely ignored people of color. >> mitt romney went to the ncaa, donald trump refused. donald trump went to two one-half empty church with 70 people in it and slagged the pastor on fox news. that was outreach intended to make white voters feeling he was reaching out. do african-americans in your view feel like they have been reached out to?

>> he's been doing character asization. every time he talks about the african-american community, it's in front of a white audience, most of the time, majority. time and he's saying character assassination our lives are horrible. we're going to get shot. how could you live this way. >> and he refers to us as the blacks. >> african-americans, you know, it's like he can't even say the word properly. i mean, this is donald trump. this is -- there's nothing new here. this is what he's been doing for 16 months and once again i'm going to bring you back to birtherism because that's where it all started five years ago when he was trying to delegitimize the first black president and he continues to do that. he still hasn't apologized for it. he just said, oh, yeah, you know, what he was born here, but hasn't apologized. >> when it comes to him describing -- takes a lot of heat for this. when it comes to him describing the economic plight and the crime situation in minority communities, he is 100% right. >> no, he's not. >> he's using -- >> i live in a black community.

>> for example, for example -- >> i'm a minority and i am running for my life. >> one voice. >> hispanics have 1/10 the household wealth of white americans. >> that's not the same thing. >> not the same as describing a h hellscape. >> economics and crime. one-third of minority children live in poverty. that is a tragedy in this country, and i believe it's largely because of very bad policy. it isn't because hispanics aren't working hard, it's because of real, really bad policy. it's because of failing schools. >> and donald trump has not said any of in a. >> and we're going to pause this panel because there is a hot panel. we'll bring it all back later in the show. coming up, independent candidate for president evan mcmullen, he's going to make his case for why he should be the third-party choice for president. you don't want to miss that. what powers the digital world? communication. like centurylink's broadband network that gives

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with all due respect, sir, you are the distraction. your conduct, sir, is the distract. is the distract from the very principles that will help us win in november. you, yourself, sir, mr. trump, have stated repeatedly that the goal, the objective, has got to be to defeat hillary clinton in november. i couldn't agree more. it's for precisely that reason, mr. trump, that i respectfully ask you, with all due respect, to step aside. step down. >> on saturday dozens of office-holding republicans released statements distancing themselves from the presidential nominee's 2005 predity statements against women while some high-level gophers

disavowed the words and others disavowed the candidate himself. utah governor gary herbert and senator mike lee. chris stewart, former utah governor jon huntsman and the list goes on. how does a mormon-led revolt against donald trump shape the race? joining me is independent presidential candidate evan mcmullen. thanks for coming back. great to talk to you, circumstances and i want to put back up this list of some of the republicans who have come out against nald trump, and they are all -- happen to be fm utah. gary herbert, the governor, jason chaffetz, congressman. senator mike lee very influential. former governor huntsman as well as congresswoman mia love who is also a mormon african-american congresswoman from utah. have any of those people reached out to you, sir, to say that they are willing to support your candidacy now that they are not supporting donald trump? >> well, i'm in touch with most

of them, and let me first of all say, joy, it's great to be with you today, but i am in touch with most of them, but, you know, they are calling for donald trump to step down which i think is a fine first step, but really what needs to happen is we need leadership in this country to stand up and not say just what they are against but what they are for, and that -- that's really what we need here, so this is a good first step, but, frankly, we've known about donald trump's ramps and misogyny for a long time. we're hearing this tape from 2005 in which he brags about sexual assault, but this is nothing new. we knew this about him. if they are going to take the step, not only those in utah and those across the country in condemning donald trump and those comments and these activities that's fine, but the next step needs to be saying what they are actually for. that is leadership. i believe we have a crisis of leadership in this country, joy, and donald trump is exposing all of it. >> well, you talk about people

saying about what they are for. you have christine todd whitman who said she's in support of hillary clinton and one of the major parties is likely to win the white house because that's the way our system is built. if donald trump is such a threat to the republic, played the video you at the top of excoriating him, why wouldn't it be more responsible to say vote for hillary clinton who is the -- the most viable alternative to donald trump? >> well, it's about principle, joy. i mean, donald trump and hillary clinton are both awful choices for this country, and for those of us who are true conservatives, we can't look at hillary clinton and say this is somebody we can support. what you're saying is we should make perhaps a choice between the lesser of two evils. that's how we got into this position. that's how we get these terribly

inferior dangerous destructive leaders. we need something bert, and that's why at this point i'm calling on americans to vote for me. all of them. look, we're going to be either on the ballot or registered as a write-in in a vast majority of states across this country. what we're going to see in this debate tonight is an argument about donald trump's sexual assault. we'll hear about his racism i hope, too, and we'll hear about hillary clinton's corruption. these are important issues in this election because our two candidates have these problems, but that's not what actually -- what we should be discussing. we should be talking about our economy, poverty. we should be talking about our national security, government reform, getting our spending under control so that we can do more good with our government as permitted by the constitution. these are the things we need to be talking about, but we won't be talking about these things because we have these two terrible leaders, and, joy, as long as we're voting for the lesser of two evils, we're going to get more of these terrible

leaders. i stepped up because i think it's time in america for a new generation of leadership, and at this point i'm asking americans to step up with me, and if you don't see me on your ballot, write me in, everyone mcmullen. we've got to do better than this. >> i'm going to, first of all, correct myself, that was mike lee in that video and, of course, i'm looking into the light and cannot see, that was mike lee and noult and i want to make sure we make that correction. i'm going to let you talk about the issues and one more bite on this. there's a utah poll out that shows -- this is the poll that you're doing the best in. you're at 12% in the latest "salt lake tribune" poll. donald trump at 34%, hillary clinton at 25, gary johnson at 13. if there's a possibility that after all of these fellow utah politicians have unendorsed donald trump, that he could theoretically collapse, let's say you were going to win utah, but what if you did much better than a third-party candidate normally does but only well enough to ensure that donald

trump is still elected president of the united states or hillary clinton, will you feel that you contributed to making one of these two president? >> well, there are a couple of things happening here, joy. first of all, i firmly believe that americans need to stop -- we all need to stop making the lesser of two evil decisions with our votes. people have literally sacrificed their lives so that we could have the freedom to vote, and for us to treat it as the lesser of two evils decision is the wrong way. we've got to stand against what we know is wrong and stand up for what we know is right. that's what we need to do. >> okay. >> or we'll never have better leaders. to answer your question on this, look, we will -- we will stand for right in this election. i do not believe that we are going to deny hillary clinton the white house. if that happens or if she wins, it's going to be because donald trump was such a weak candidate, and by the way, if we help prevent donald trump and a racist authoritarian from

becoming president of the united states, i'll wear that proudly and i think my supporters will feel the same. >> let me go through a round robin on domestic issues. we had the state senator from this area earlier. she highlighted two areas that are of importance to voters listening to the debate. what do you make of the black lives matter movement and what would you do as president regarding the issues that they are concerned about, criminal justice reform? >> well, i think black lives do matter and for heavens sakes, it's 2016. we can say that. i find myself, i follow like i'm in a bad dream at times. one of the biggest things i feel that i have to say on the campaign trail is that all men and women were created equal. how is it that we're in 2016 and i still have to say this? it's just -- it's, again, emblematic of our situation where -- in which we have a crisis of leadership in this country. do i think we need to reform criminal justice. we're locking up too many people for nonviolent crimes and break up families and pulling mainly

african-american families -- fathers away from their children. that's not what we want to do. doesn't help hour communities or the countries. a range of other things, reforms we need to do, reforms we need to make to our poverty programs and we forms we need to make to -- to education, but these are deeper problems than just sort of what happens between law enforcement and the african-american community, although there need to be reforms there, too. i'm for body cam race. i think there needs to be more community policing, more engagement outside of law enforcement between the law enforcement community and the african-american community and other communities, but there's -- it's more complicated than just -- than the way most people think about it. there are deep, deep, deep issues we need to be bert on. >> yeah. and very quickly, we are basically out of time. my producers are yelling at me too, but i want to ask you one more question because the question of environmental justice was brought up as well. do you believe that the federal government should, a, pay for the -- the removal and replacement of pipes that are

carrying dirty water into flint, michigan, and do you believe that local communities should have more say in where nuclear waste is buried? you're in a western state. it's an issue here in missouri as well. >> well, as far as the pipes are concerned, they just have to be changed out. now, whether it's the lol, state level or federal government or a combination of all. above, you know, we can -- we can look at that. actually i think states should be simmon for that, but it's hard for them to do that now because the federal government takes so much of the money in terms of taxes that states don't have the financial ability to -- to always make the -- the policies and the changes they need to make, so that's part of a bigger picture which is about returning power to the states, but clearly in this emergency situation we've got to -- we've got to respond. as far as nuclear waste, yes, i think local communities should have a say, for sure. >> absolutely. evan mcmullin, thanks so much. you should be on that stage. you would be an interesting participant tonight. thank you and good luck with your campaign.

>> all right. so much more. live coverage here from washington university in st. louis site of tonight's presidential debate. don't go away. ♪ using ,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink

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remember when you said men are supeyeah...ivers? yeah, then how'd i get this... ...allstate safe driving bonus check? ...only allstate sends you a bonus check for every six months you're accident free. silence. it's good to be in, good hands. "saturday night live" did not miss a beat. they jumped right into the biggest political story of the week. take a look. >> okay. now mr. trump, many republicans have stood by you through a lot of other scandals but are now pulling their support, people like senator john mccain. >> coward. >> carly fiorina. >> she's a 4. and idaho senator mike crapo. >> more like crappo. >> but you must admit that this is bad for you. >> the only person i need is my running mate mike pence. i love mike pence. i respect pence.

i'll always have pence. >> well, actually today he said he can't condone your remarks and then he cancelled his campaign events. >> mike pence is a loser. >> it is a very, very sad day for our country and for all women, minus one. >> do you think he should drop out? >> no, no, no, no, no, give him a shot. >> don't go away. so much more "a.m. joy" after the break. i'm lucky to get through a shift without a disaster. my bargain detergent couldn't keep up. so, i switched to tide pods. they're super concentrated, so i get a better clean. tide. number one rated. it's got to be tide

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my insurance rates are but dad, you've got... ...allstate. with accident forgiveness they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. indeed. it's good to be in, good hands. hashtag stuffy nose. hashtag no sleep. hashtag mouthbreather. just put on a breathe right strip. it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than cold medicine alone. shut your mouth and say goodnight mouthbreathers. breathe right. who does he do that to? >> well, first of all, i don't know that he did it to nip and it's just talk. he who hasn't sinned threw the first stone. i know some of these people -- >> i will -- i will gladly tell you -- mr. mayor, i have never

said that. i have never done that and i'm happy to throw a stone. i don't know any man. i've been in locker rooms, been a member of a fraternity. never heard any man ever brag about being able to mall women because they get away with it. >> we've taken it to an extra degree, but in any event take ten to an extra degree, but the fact is men at times talk like that, not all men, but men do. >> all right. back with me are e.j., michelle, karinne and steve. let's play some of the sunday sound. rudy giuliani is actually the only person that was on the sunday shows. he made all. rounds. played the parts of every other trump campaign surrogate. one more bite. him with jake tapper on cnn and now let's listen to rudy giuliani talking about the apology that trump gave. take a listen. >> horrible remarks. they are remarks you certainly don't want to hear from anyone, much less a presidential

candidate and then when you reflect on it it, he apologized for him. said that he realized he was wrong. doesn't reflect the way he looks at things today and i think he made a full and complete apology for it. he probably is going to do it again tonight. >> so we just heard two versions of the rudy giuliani defense, steve. first we heard combative saying this is what is said in a locker room and the second one saying you certainly don't want to hear it from the presidential candidate. which is more effective? >> the second. >> that is was easy. rudy giuliani is america's mayor, great spokesman and his second answer was much better. he doesn't want to and i won't get caught in the weeds therefore statement. it was repugnant case closed to me. no more needs to be said about it. he apologized. i believe in another giveness. i believe in redemption and i believe that most americans are

far more concerned with this languishing economy and isis than they are with donald trump saying something really crass over a decade ago. >> you know what i think the great mystery is going to be. rudy giuliani is going to look back at this year and say i could have just been america's mayor again. it was the anniversary of 9/11. why in the world didn't i stay out of the campaign and not have to say stuff like that in the first clip. >> i'll tell you why regular americans feel no one is their voice right now and they believe donald trump is their voice. this is not just a candidacy. it's a movement. >> which americans are you talking about? >> wage earners. this is an economy right now, if you own assets, a lot of stocks and real estate you're doing fan fastically but if you're a striver and wage earner you're doing -- >> the guy who pays no taxes at all -- >> donald trump -- >> he's given voice. >> he's giving voice, and i hate

to say it, but the loudest voice is right now in the republican party are the people that i fear the most. if you are a wage earner as i am and millions of americans are and particularly if you are a person of color or you are a woman, if you're having difficulty with the economy now, i can't imagine what your difficulties will be with a donald trump as the commander in chief of the united states. >> that's right. >> because every white male who feels that it is okay to grope you or kiss you, and i want to give a shutout to our friend hugh hewitt for bringing altoids to the set this morning and not tic tacs. >> we're too great a country. >> even with 1% growth, what can you tell me as a black woman sitting on this set this morning that donald trump can do for me that will allow me to succeed. if we want to talk about smart government and the role of government in our lives, how can

you convince me that donald trump will not push a department of justice offer an eeoco any other governmental agency to do things that limit my ability to reach the american dream? >> for all americans, but for people of color, for us, what do we need? we need economic growth so we're going to lower taxes demonstrably. simplify and reduce regulation and then, this is the most important thing for the future of people of color, school choice. far too many minority children are trapped in failing schools. >> so basically the george w. bush economy and that did not work out well. >> that did not work. >> that's the george w. bush plan. >> george bush did not reduce regulation. it went crazy under regulation. >> the only people are big business, people who want to pollute the environment. the average american does not go around saying if we only had deregulation. >> let's play one more sound. i want to play another sound

bite from rudy giuliani. "face the nation" as he's making the round and speaks with john dickerson about the idea of character in the white house. let's take a look. >> mike pence recently said character matters to the presidency and donald trump will bring the highest level of integrity. does that characterization, the highest level of integrity still stand? >> i don't know -- i hate to get terribly theological about it, but have you ever read the confession of st. augustine in the reality is that men can change. people can change. >> well, i have to go right to my side here because. e.j., you teach at a catholic university and write a lot about religion. does that argument work? character matters because he's changed today. >> i have heard amazing things in this campaign. i never thought i would see the day when donald trump was compared to st. augustine. god help us all. >> the sarturday that essentially donald trump will be

able to wipe everything away if he just declares i'm a changed man and comes out tonight and says i'm a changed man. my character is sterling at age 70 i've had this sort of conversion on the road to damascus. does that happen as a political communications matter? >> it doesn't. it's all on tape. we've been watching all of this not just for years from 2005. for the last 16 months and every time they -- the republicans and his campaign say oh, we're going to get a different donald trump no, it's not going to work, and what's going to happen is donald trump, unfortunately, for us, donald trump only listens to the voices in his head that say to him i'm -- everything is great and look at the non-scientific polls that show that i'm winning. that's the donald trump that we have and that's what we're going to continue to have. it's not going to change. >> this is important, too. i get your point, he's probably not st. augustine, but thankfully he's not running against mo mother teresa and if you want to talk character on hillary clinton, lying, this isn't a talking point. when you lie to the parents of

dead american soldiers next to their caskets, that to me speaks to character. when you hide and jeopardize the national security of the united states by having a secret server in your basement, that gets to character. the clinton foundation, pay for play, character. >> but, but, here's the thing. >> we don't see -- we don't see vladimir putin or boko haram saying that they want to vote for hillary clinton. who do they want as the command commander in chief, donald trump? the loss of life is a horrific tragedy, but if we talk about the present hillary clinton is not a man in a position of power who believes that she is free to glove women halt any time she wants. >> i have some breaking news, breaking into this conversation, our katy tur, fabulous report for msnbc news is now reporting rnc chairman reince priebus telling rnc staffers to do what's best for them, essentially freeing rnc staffers

essentially to go with their conscience, no longer holding them, and by the way, kari ney -- >> steve has got to change his talking points. >> we don't need permission from the tower. we're free. >> reince priebus has been dutifully marching behind donald trump the entire time and threatened anybody who wants to run for president in 2020 must support donald trump. what does it mean he's now changing his tune? >> look, they have 30 days left and he's a loser. they are looking at the polls. he was losing before the friday tape, and if you look at the nbc/"wall street journal" poll today, and you look at the battle ground state which is what matters, pennsylvania, she's up more than she's been. ohio, she's up in ohio, florida, she's up. they are thinking about the down ballot right now >> exactly. >> and if you look at that poll in pennsylvania, mcguinty is up by four, and if you look at florida, it's frightening up for

a senate race down there? that's pretty remarkable. it's an effect that's happening and now they have to save. it's a political calculation. >> everything i've said up to this point about donald trump is now inoperative to use that term and -- and i think there's going to be a real look back on reince priebus who blocked the never trump people, who threw in with trump early, and a lot of republicans are going to say why did we do this? why didn't we stand up to this when there might have been a chance to stop this, and i think a lot of republicans have a lot to answer for between now and the election and after too. >> and we don't ever run into people who say they supported -- that they supported george wallace. you don't find george wallace. we like you a lot, steve. thank you for being here and i wonder if a lot of republicans who make the economic arguments make wouldn't have knelt better about if if it was john kasich or jeb bush they were standing behind rather than this person, donald trump. but we'll leave that for another day because we want you to come back. we've been making friends with steve cortes here.

kari ney jean-pierre, e.j. dionne, thank you for this wonderful panel. more "a.m. joy" is coming up after the break. is that ice-t? nope, it's lemonade. is that ice-t? lemonade. ice-t? what's with these people, man? lemonade, read the sign. lemonade. read it. ok. delicious. ice-t at a lemonade stan surprising. what's not surprising? how much money marin saved by switching to geico. yo, ice-t! it's lemonade, man! fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. whether it's connecting one of or bringing wifi to 65,000 fans. campuses. businesses cou on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.

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coming up, we will hear from the fabulous crowd gathered here at washington university in st. louis. tonight, msnbc will be giving you up-to-the-minute debate coverage beginning with our friends on "meet the press" at 5:00 p.m. eastern. the debate will be live at 9:00. then stick around after our debate for our full team coverage starting at 10:30 eastern. more "a.m. joy" in just a moment. is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work

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. we are back with the fabulous students of washington university in st. louis.

look at this gorgeous crowd. we're going to talk to a few frenz. we made friends with sam who's a senior here. what do you think hillary clinton should do tonight at the debate. we were told you are a hillary clinton supporter. >> i think it's going to be important for hillary to emphasize the need to vote tonight. a lot of supporters are going to think this election is in the bag. that is not the case. the trump supporters will be coming out strong and we need to back her and go out to vote. >> the do you think that hillary clinton should bring up the video or will the video be a part of the debate tonight? >> i think it will be in the background. i think she could stick away from it as much as she can. she's strong on the issues. she should win on the issues. >> let's go down the line. you have this black lives matter sign and that says black lives matter does not mean all lives don't matter. [ cheers and applause ] if the issue of race comes up, what would you want to hear? >> i want them to focus more on black people not in regard to

the criminal justice system, we are humans, we have lives outside of criminal matters and i feel as if trump and hillary don't focus enough on black people and our plight in black america. we are less than 30 minutes away from ferguson. that matters. the candidates have not adequately talked about black people or people of color and how we are demonized in this country. black lives do matter. and when question say black lives matter, we don't say all lives don't matter. that's not the point. but we are not treated fairly in this country. [ cheers and applause ] >> that's important. let me ask questions about issues of women do you think beyond this video -- what's at stake for women in this country, women of color and women in general? >> so much of this world is like a boy's club and i'm so happy to see hillary on stage killing it. it's great to see. >> we tried to find a student who's a trump supporter. [ laughter ] we have a trump supporter here

who is not a student. we'll have to do it another time. thanks for watching "a.m. joy." we'll see you back again next week. not same place at the same time so stay with msnbc all day live from st. louis university. you see what happens? the second presidential debate. my colleague andrea mitchell picks it up from here after the break. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.

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give yourself some credit." sorry out that. right now on a special sunday edition of "andrea mitchell reports" live from washington university in st. louis, the site of tonight's second presidential debate. no surrender. with republicans in open revolt and a campaign in crisis, a defiant donald trump vows he will not back down after a 2005 video caught him bragging in vulgar terms about groping women. >> it's not about saying it, mr. mayor, it's doing it. he's bragging about making unwanted sexual