end unless. >> she let it. >> she just let that out there. i mean, it only confirms a lot of chatter. but look, this. >> unless another we're talking about grabbing women by the you know what. they don't know what else is out there. this is the reality they're all living with. >> that unless. >> we don't need to tiptoe around this. >> she is -- oo. >> they don't know. >> literally, you see the dot dot dots. >> kellyanne? >> put me back on. >> hey. >> we're back. >> kellyanne, it's rachel maddow in new york. we're confused. chris was asking you if you're with the campaign till the bitter end and you said yes, you said -- you seemed to indicate that you were with the campaign and then you said dramatically unless -- and then you let that tail off. we don't know what the unless

means. >> i know. i didn't mean to alert the breaking news again, rachel. the unless is simple. it's unless someone in my household needs me or unless something changes in my own life. >> what we were speculating unless something else comes out about your candidate that you can't foresee now unless there's some additional tape or some additional evidence or something you don't know about him now. that's not what you meant? >> that is not what i meant. and i have to say, i think that whoever was breaking the news today on msnbc that i was resigning while i was getting on the plane with mr. and mrs. trump to come here should do a about thor job checking their fakes. >> kellyanne. >> it's a good thing to do. >> it's nicole. first off, congratulations. i know you guys were prepping before all hell broke loose on friday. obviously a lot of prep took. congratulations on that. i understand you had a very large part in that. i also understand it is a known

unknown what else is out there about mr. trump and that is of grave concern to him and the family and all of you. is there anything you can say about lessons learned from the last 72 hours or do you know of anything that's coming? >> nicole, i don't know anything that's coming. i also don't want to engage in hypotheticals and speculation. i just watched 90 minutes of real debate. and it's obvious to me that mr. trump dominated the debate. it's not spin. she was on defense. she looked, it's almost an indignity to hillary clinton to share the stage with donald trump and it showed. that was a great format for him. i said it earlier in the week. but clearly, it was. he gets oxygen from the people. he's out there every day talking to people at rallies in smaller settings. she often is not. i think you saw that payoff tonight. the other thing that happened tonight and i think it was very similar to nbc's commander in chieftown haul forum last month which is that you saw donald trump make the case and hillary

clinton need to defend against the fact that she represents the status quo. she represents the past. she represents politics. she represents washington. she represents a flotilla of votes and processes that americans just don't want to -- you see i'm always quoting the 70% in the new fox news poll. we want to take the country in a new and different direction. she has to somehow to use a word pivot away from that in a manner that convinces people that they do want more of the same. i think tonight she looked like somebody who had been in politics for decades and had not had the deliverable and the product that mattered to people. >> one last question. there will be a third debate. >> of course. october 19th in vegas. >> it will be a rubber match. >> thank you. >> see you there. >> thank you very much. thank you for coming back. that was a good sport of you to do that. >> i feel like we're going to home to our families and hear from kellyanne. >> could i just say she's so good. one of the best in the business. >> dan rather told me after she

was on my show the first time, dan said she could talk the legs off a table. she's good at what she does. >> she's also just a very good person. >> steve schmidt help us out here. as with all conversations, assume that kellyanne conway can hear you. what happened? there's this is conference call tomorrow within among washington republicans. what happens? what -- what happens monday and tuesday and so on? >> look, what's happening right now is poll numbers are coming in to the senate races, the private polling. it's showing the numbers falling through the floor. and it's been part of a trend since we ended to the first debate. now, he came into this debate prepared to make political attacks against secretary clinton. and he leveled them effectively in 35%, 40% of the country is

right on track with what he's talking about. benghazi, the e-mails. she should be in jail. on and on and on. but here's the reality of this race fundamentally. you have the two most unpopular candidates in the history of polling running against each other. and whom he ever has the spotlight on them at any time is the person who is losing. so in the first debate, hillary clinton had a strategy to provoke him, to make him respond. he took the bait. every single time. that didn't happen today. she was not able to provoke him. and she was on defense on a number of these issues. through the course of the debate. but at a substantive level as we get ready for the third debate, you take the politics out of it, again, the next president of the united states should be able to speak coherently about what's happening in syria. and to be able to speak knowledgeably about what's happening in aleppo.

and whether it was on the question of syria, whether it was his talking about the nuclear arsenal, the united states versus russia, he had no grasp of these issues at a substantive level. and i do think that matters over time. so tomorrow, the republican senators and the republican house members won't be sitting there saying that this debate was good for donald trump. they're looking in the mirror and they're saying, this is about me. does my support for donald trump help me, hurt me, is it going to cost my seat? and that is the structural damage that his candidacy has done to the institution of the republican party. and all of these elected leaders in the republican party who are accommodationists to this for so long, the bill is coming due. so the panic inside the elected class of the republican party will not abate from this debate

performance. it will continue to grow and to the point that nicole was mak g making, nobody knows what else is out there. will we see women coming forward that say that donald trump was untruthful when he said, i never groped anybody. i never touched anybody. i have no idea what will happen. but if there are more revelations, the campaign's focus will continue to be on donald trump. and like i said, whomever this race is about is the person that's losing. >> i want to jump on the foreign policy point he make. it was a stunning decision that trump made and everybody let him do it. he was asked about aleppo. it was clearly he just started saying it a couple times. he didn't have much to say and he goes let me tell you about mosul. it was like what? this h nothing to do with the humanitarian crisis in aleppo. >> declared an pep low had fallen. >> this is where actually where hillary clinton you know, where she would miss some opportunities sometimes because he got into mosul and then she

starred then okay, it shifted the whole conversation to mosul. and the decision and martha raddatz got into the debate. >> sort of let martha take him apart a little bit on that. >> except we never got his answer on aleppo. we never got, what does he want to do. he starred talking about assad and they're all killing isis. >> functionally, he said that the united states should in an alliance with iran and syria and russia because that's the best way to fight isis which is insane. hillary clinton put forward an alternate idea but didn't criticize him for that. >> james carville has watched along with us. do you concur that grading this event requires keeping two sets of books? >> no, i'm listening to our commentary. i agree with the fact he's somewhere between 35 and 40% of the vote. i agree with the fact that enthusiastic said he didn't convince a single person that's not already with him. i agree with the fact he's going to have a bad 48 hours.

fact checkers will be busier than a one-armed paper hanger. what i don't agree with is he did very well. if you put all that together, the way he was acting, he was like lurking around the background, he wasn't paying attention to the question. she was very engaged in all the visuals. this is not just an audio event, it's visual too. i agree with the analysis that we made so far. i don't agree with the conclusion. i really don't i'm a partisan. trump doesn't convince a single person. the visuals were terrible for him. and he didn't tie this debate. i'm sorry. i can't go along with the consensus there. >> this is in your view, how false equivalency coverage starts after a weekend dominated by, to many, disqualifying obscene videotape. a night dominated by a kind of kim jong-un style conference

room photo op within the hour before the debate. then two different sets of rules perhaps? >> yeah, look, she was engaged. i think there's some tendency to say he was better than he was in the first debate. we'll just sort of declare it okay. i don't think that's the case at all. in anybody in politics, the heat was on him. he had to do something to break out of this cycle that he was in where he was stuck at the polling average around 40%. he didn't do that. by our own admission. he also was going to do worse tomorrow and the next day than he did tonight. i can't buy into this fact that somehow or other this debate tonight was a draw. if you just totally discount the visual aspects which i thought she did unbelievably well. what she did do and what they made a decision to do is we're going to let this thing go to the fact checkers and not spend all of our time doing that. we can say well, maybe that was a good decision, a bad decision.

it was a good one. i think the post debate the next 48 hours are going to be awesome for her. it will be terrible for him. we do all agree that he's at 40. he didn't convince a single person that wasn't with him to be for him. now, i'm sure that people see that and he says yeah, i'm going to put her in jail and 35, 37.5% of the country say that's great. the problem is, you can't win an election with 40%. you can't win this presidential election with 40%. you can't carry these nervous republicans in the senate and house races with 40%. honestly, and i mean i really examination of conscience, altar boy, i honestly don't think he did very well tonight. and i think that she engaged with people. and he needed to move the needle. he didn't move the needle at all. that is my honest opinion. >> cluck, i think james is responding to actually mostly to your analysis here in terms of saying sort of how well overall trump did both in relation to

expectations and what he needs to do in terms of the election. what's your take on this. >> i don't think we disagree here. i don't think we're disagreeing here at all which is this whole idea that it is, you know, if you take the debate in isolation, you know, he made his base very happy. he went after her in ways that like i said, david bosse has dreamed about for two decades to do. and he did keep the debate on his terms. where and she and i think this is where we're going to debate. did she miss opportunities? or was james said, let him light himself on fire? and litigate this the next two days. because i agree with james that the next two days will be awful for him. this is a terrible 30-second clip reel of donald trump. that's the problem. it's a terrible 30-second clip reel. if you watch the entire debate, you feel as if geez, she seemed defensive and he seemed to

always be able to knock her off stride a little bit more in the way that she knocked him off. but again, you cannot look at this debate as brian said, we can't look at this debate as 90 minutes. the spectacle at the beginning, the videotape all leads to almost as if we're trying to, it's like trying to judge bill clinton's state of the union in the middle of the monica thing. >> when you sit and we come in for breaking news and watch a trump speech, when what he read off the prompter was fine then we see but you have to wait and see what he says on o'reilly at 8:00 and what he tweets at 3:00 a.m. you can't take any of the trump experience in isolation. it's never just the thing he does when we're all watching. > by the way, there's nothing like confidence that he has like when he gets his own confidence. that will lead him to do something absolutely politically stupid. >> there's a lot of insane stuff that did happen within the 90 minutes too that will continue

to be fodder for discussion. when we finally did actually end up talking about the access hollywood tape during the debate and he said he said, this is locker room talk. you know, we have a world with isis chopping off heads. immediately brought up isis as his answer for whether or not he sexually assaulted someone. that will live on. threatening to jail his political opponent will live on. rescinding his muslim ban will live on. >> didn't tell people to check out the sex tape. >> he says he didn't tweet check out the sex tape. >> check out sex tape. >> the jail comment is a huge comment. >> do you realize what would happen though if another country's election, we'd criticize, our state department would say that's not a democratic election. >> that's right. >> we're going to send monitors. chris matthews is with rudy guiliani. >> right, thanks, brian. does hillary have a stamina problem? i didn't notice it tonight? she's very good in closing the

last 30 minutes of these debates. you guys keep talking about her stamina. >> i thought the end of the debate she was automatic talking on and on and didn't make any sense. the moderators gave her far more time than they gave trump. >> do you think they were presidential? >> i do. >> presidential? >> why would they be rooting for her. >> let me explain why i liked it as she went on and on, she made less sense. she never answered the key question. why did she destroy 33,000 e-mails subpoenaed by congress. she never answered it. it's a federal crime to do that. and she never ever explained why she destroyed those e-mails. how ridiculous was her explanation about abraham lincoln. >> why didn't the fbi charge her then or the justice department. >> because the justice department and fbi obviously something went wrong in this case. you don't have -- her husband meeting with the attorney general. >> you think. >> four days before. >> you think james comey was bent on this thing?

you said they meant on the plane. >> you said the president bill clinton was meeting with. >> bill clinton meets with loretta lynch on an airplane in arizona. then on the fourth of july weekend, they have an interview. i look at that 302. here's what she said. she didn't know that the "c" in the front of a paragraph meant confidential. how come i remember that and i was in the justice department in 19 1? if she didn't know that, she was either too stupid to be secretary of state or she's lying. that is exactly what jim comey put martha stewart in jail for, lying to the fbi. she did it. 39 times, she said i can't recall. i can't recall. i can't recall. i can't recall. she also said she doesn't remember her exit interview with the cia because she had a concussion and had a loss of memory. and it was never followed up by the fbi. the fbi never asked to see the medical records, the fbi never asked her when she said she

thought the "c" was alphabetical order. did she say an b, a c, a d, an e, an f? if they gave me a 302, i would throw it in their face and say go back and question her again. >> you defended who's on tape videotape talking about how he picks up women by grabbing them by their crotch. would you take that as evidence and use it? >> only if it actually happened. >> if he said he did. >> i mean men say a lot of things >> he said he did it. would you take that as evidence. >> there was far more evidence than bill clinton. >> he's talking about this case. >> why would you not use that as evidence. >> let's talk about bill clinton. he wasn't prosecuted for raping broderick or taking advantage of an intern in the white house. >> because there's no tape of him saying i did it whereas we've got a tape of donald trump saying he did it. >> there was seme on her dress

which proved he lied to america. she's getting away with lying to america. >> so you're not comfortable with this videotape are you? you're not comfortable with this conversation about videotape what we're watching from access would"? i'm absolutely comfortable with it in the sense he apologized. >> he said it was locker room conversation. he didn't say he admitted anything in that tape which he did. that's not the bad language nobody cares about. it's what he said did he with women who pick them up. >> men say stupid things in locker rooms. i was a baseball player. a terrible football player but a good baseball player. now i play a lot of golf. i hear a lot worse than that. i've played golf with bill clinton and heard worse than that. >> did you ever hear a guy say i tried to pick up a married woman, it didn't work? >> i probably have. >> yeah. did you ever hear a guy i say i pick up women by grabbing them? >> this is ridiculous. >> it's not.

>> and you are offended that he brings jau wuanita broad drick. >> i went through the charges for every one. >> whatever he said, bill clinton did much worse. juanita broderick said bill clinton raped her and hillary clinton attacked her. >> i'm aware of a big part of that. on this program, rudy, i have brought up the fact of kathleen willy's charges. we've talked endlessly about the paula jones program. there's been no defense played by me on these cases. >> his. >> i'm trying to get all the truth including the truth of the candidate. >> his indiscretion, his had reprehensible language which he called it was wrong. >> are you a role model. >> is he a role model? >> as much as john kennedy was a role model, as much as lyndon johnson was a role model. you know what i'm talking about. you've been around a long time. i've been around a long time.

>> we have tapes. who's more of a baghdad dob, you or carville. >> she was completely lying about lincoln. >> about abraham lincoln 1993 nailed her with it. >> how did he nail her. >> explain. >> by saying beak not abraham lincoln. >> when she said public and private response to everything, he was saying that. >> she blamed on abraham lincoln. she said lincoln, i read the transcript. what she said was, i have to say to you the bankers stuff that you'd like to hear because i want your money. then i've got to say other stuff out there because bernie sanders is coming after me. you know what that's called? it's called lying. > thank you. rudolph giuliani, the former mayor of new york. back to you. >> thank you, chris. thank you, mr. mayor. hey, i bet james carville's got something to say. >> there he is. >> we forgot a little minor

detail that ken starr exhaustively looked into the broderick thing. i guess ken starr was instructed by somebody not to pursue bill clinton with any vigor. this is all a bunch of silliness. rudy guiliani's i don't know what. he's kinds of caught off guard by this tape. again, you know, i just want to go back to the -- to tonight. the way she engaged, i thought she did -- maybe i watched a different debate. i thought she did a really good job talking about her career in politics, a good job of engaging the audience. i thought she was the energy question was kind of unbelievable. and i don't know how we got fell into this loop he convinced no one but he had a good night. i thought that the visuals worked really well for her. and i just can't believe that anybody's going to be convinced by a stunt of bringing out something that happened in the '90s that's been adjudicated in elections time and time again.

and that has been sort of decided. it sure gave a whole retro feeling to me. i really give her high marks fi. she locked on to them and had a conversation with him. i was watching him stalk in the background trying to lord over her. i don't know what he was trying to do. i did not see her get rattled. i'll be honest with you. i was sitting there saying she's she's got to be furious because account guy is being so rude. i thought she stayed on point good. i really feel very good about how she did and i feel very, very good about defending her performance tonight. >> james carville, thank you. lawrence o'donnell, thank you, james. lawrence o'donnell standing by to give his assessment. >> brian, rudy guiliani's comments were interesting. they began with something that wasn't true. he said that donald trump had to talk much less than hillary clinton. in fact, the official count is

in. donald trump talked for one minute five seconds longer than hillary clinton. i think each side always has the feeling that the other one is getting more time there. and rudy guiliani's willingness or eagerness to immediately shift back 20 years when asked anything about what happened on friday, what happened on friday was for the first time in history first time in presidential campaign history a candidate confessed on videotape to sexual assault. sexual assault is a crime. rudy guiliani's been very fond talking about all the crimes he could prosecute hillary clinton for if just given the cannes and chris matthews question question about this was important. now, what's true is we don't have any names. we don't have any cases. but the fact that that video exists, it would indeed be something that a prosecutor would try to bring into any case. in which donald trump ever was accused of sexual assault.

so it was -- but you saw that the giuliani, trump method here is to get away from that as soon as it's brought up and immediately go to some stories that are 20 years old, some stories older than that because to this hour, they have not figured out how to talk about that tape that was released on friday and they obviously are living in fear of more tape coming out. >> lawrence o'donnell, thank you. hugh hewitt same question. you have lived through a weekend with a disqualifying event. the language donald trump used, the behavior he exemplified. and here we are judging this debate to nicole's point as if it's somehow in the clear. >> well, there is context and that inevitably that will envelope it. i want to go back to the debate for a second because it was like watching the first 15 minutes of

gladiators six times. it went at a level of tension that has engulf this had campaign. i don't think the public can live with this. he did a very good of prosecuting the case for the republican congress to put a senate in place to block the judges she promised. the judge answer was so deeply unsettling to me. she wants results oriented judges. she didn't mention the constitution. the 33,000 e-mails went unanswered and when asked about the by the question in the audience from facebook i believe about being double faced and she brought up lincoln and he came back and said you lied and used lincoln to cover it up. it was devastating. just looking up his name, it was fujimoto the japanese gymnast who stuck the dismount with a broken knee. donald trump had a very good debate marred by car wrecks in the middle of it. i don't know that anyone can ignore this context. a lot of the members of the

senate are much happier they talked about obamacare and anything other than the tape and those first 20 minutes which were just gut wrenching for everyone, republican, democrat, the candidates. it was the most tense debate i've ever watched. >> i concur with that chuck todd who said it was an overall bad night for our country. >> i want to add one piece of news we just got from the parents of humayun khan killed in iraq. he came up a couple times in the debate. trump saying if i were president at that time, he would be alive today. because unlike her who voted for the war without knowing what she was doing, i would not have had our people in iraq. iraq was a disaster. hillary clinton responded bying this is the 10th or 12th being for the war in iraq. it's been debunked but it never stops him from saying what he wants to say. khizr khan has responded. we know that our son is an

american hero. drt is not telling the truth when he says he was against the iraq war. our son served this country with honor and division. the only thing that donald trump sacrifices is the truth. so that. >> here we go. the notion that he will stay silent and not engage a critique from the khans again is crazy. he's back in -- before it started i said bombs away. this is the trump he has always wanted to be. this is the guy he's most comfortable coming out as and i'll be watching to see, i mean, i think he lands at 2:00 a.m. at laguardia tonight. i'd be surprised if he didn't respond to that. >> >> i guess i saw a kind of different debate. there are three things that i saw. hugh hewitt pointed to that first 20 minutes of the debate. which was about fitness, about who is fit to be president of the united states. and in a way, i think that's the main thing that a lot of people will take away from this debate. you know, the questions about

donald trump's moral character essentially. and hillary clinton making the case as she said repeatedly, i keep telling you, he's not fit to be president. i think people will remember that just because it was so vivid and so tense. and you were kind of riveted. there are other times during the debate frankly when you were not riveted because they were kind of reverting to talking points or in the case of donald trump just kind of talking sometimes, right? because -- second thing i think people will take away is the -- i would put her in jail. if i'm elected president, i'm going to call a special prosecutor to look into your affairs. and you belong in jail. talk about banana republic. that's unprecedented in american politics. >> there's a reason why presidents don't weigh in on anybody else's legal cases let alone threatening to prosecute a

person. >> that's shocking. i think we've become kind of numb to that but steve schmidt mentioned it. but it's shocking. > the reason we have special prosecutors. >> and the other thing was as i believe james carville mentioned, the visuals. you know, after the last debate, "the new york times" did the academic exercise of having a reporter watch the debate with the sound down and being able to tell immediately who won. i thought the visuals were really, really weird. i thought you know, you had this, she didn't seem rattled to me. she seemed composed and to have made a decision not to rise to every piece of bait he threw out there. but you saw trump scowling and stalking and breathing heavily and looming and this sort of weird body language that i think people will take away. right, and smirking. it was -- it was weird.

and i don't think it was presidential. i think it was -- i think it will come across to a lot of people as bizarre. >> and gore paid a price for doing far less than what -- al gore. >> physically approaching w. >> they were two men, al gore was taller than bush. this visual and the way it's processed by people viewing at home especially women of a much larger man standing behind her. >> getting closer and closer. >> i have space needle issues but people behind me freak me out. >> i was getting a lot of messages about the body language and what is he doing? on social media, people taking pictures of their tv screens at th moment and posting them without a ction because it was creepy enough to not need a description. joy reid has been from a closer vantage point in st. louis. that's your take on what happened here tonight?

>> wow. good eveninging to rachel and all you guys up there. i made a few notes on the debate. i was watching in the room with a very, very large screen. last point that was made i concur with. the visual, the split screen of donald trump looming over hillary clinton pacing around, leaning on the chair was very strange. and you know, the term thug politics, i thought about that a lot throughout this debate. not to get too dramatic but my father came to this country from the democratic republic of congo. we talked about the congo and the politics there. we need to not speed past the point that an american candidate for president threatened to jail his political opponent. this is something that human rights watch, that amnesty international is investigating in the democratic republic of congo right now. right now. because as of this summer, a political opponent of the current leader was put in jail

on charges. this happens in malaysia, in uganda. this does not ot happen in the united states of america. when you combine the fact that somebody who essentially admitted to being a serial sexual assaulter of women, then took people that he calls victims of sexual assault and harassment, brought them along into the debate and even before the debate, held that conference which i could have seen in a third world country, this kind of thug okay crasscy that donald trump essentially represented tonight started with that press conference, then moved over to the debate where he spent an entire debate saying absolutely nothing about the issues he's asked about. no answers. meandering and wandering. when he did get specific, he admitted to not paying federal taxes. essentially boasted about not paying federal taxes even when confronted with the fact that means he did not the contributor to funding our military, veterans administration, funding

roads and bridges and infrastructure and all the rest, essentially admitted to it. so i think when you combine his lack of knowledge about really anything, the answer on aleppo was stunning, he went right to mosul. i don't think he knew what the question was. there is no style point that you can award to somebody who did that combination of things. it was a stunning debate that would have been much more fitting in the third world than it was in the united states of america. >> to that point, by the way, you're not going to get out of st. louis tonight without somebody buying you a beer. prepare yourself. >> you're a fan favorite >> i will take it. >> thank you. >> i will say to your point you were just raising about something, i just want us to play that clip from the debate which a number of us highlighted and joy just did quite eloquently in terms of trump raising this prospect of putting hillary clinton in jail. first bring dg up unprompted at length in terms of how he would

like to prosecute her and interjecting to say if she were president she would be in jail. this may be the main take away from debate depending how the news cycle unfolds over the next 12 to 24. watch. >> if i win, i am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there has never been so many lies, so much deception, there has never been anything like it and we're going to have a special prosecutor. when i speak, i go out and speak, the people of this country are furious. in my opinion, the people that have been long-term workers at the fbi are furious. there has never been anything like this where e-mails and you get a subpoena, and after getting the subpoena, you delete 33,000 e-mails. >> you know, it is -- it's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in

our country. >> because you'd be in jail. >> secretary clinton -- >> that's going to stick. shows you two things that were going on there. number one, hillary clinton being relatively ared in the way she was going after donald trump tonight. nicolle wallace was saying this was essentially could be seen as missed opportunities for clinton and could be seen strategically as a choice by her to tread water and let stuff fly and let this be a debate about donald trump because the trajectory he's on right now is going to have him lose the election. him saying you would be in jail if i were president in this country, that is something that would stick in a debate in our country. it would stick in a debate in a lot of authoritarian countries. it would be the sort of thing that our country would criticize other countries for allowing to be threatened during the course of what was supposed to be a democratic contest.

>> mike murphy is standing by to talk to us. that was his joke during the vice presidential debate. mike, a couple theories of the case here. number one that hillary clinton was somehow doing the mike pence rope-a-dope react only to what you had to. number two, that she was somehow flustered by trump's pregame regalia. number three, that she -- it was a john lovitz thing where he looked at the camera and said i can't believe i'm losing to this guy. that kind of reaction. >> a little bit of number three. it was a small depressing dinky debate and ultimately, it didn't mean much. trump was dead before the debate. his campaign has imploded. he's dead now. hillary had a weak night. she's been better. i think the problem with trying to act presidential is it doesn't show a lot of. a lot of democrats are depressed because they wanted to see more

fire from her. she went into the debate with something to lose. trump didn't. now we'll have the great bite bart news dream of the lost weekend debate where it's all going to be slash and burn and the ghost of the foster. it's going to go down that path and the only question is what kind of damage we'll take at the gop. more information will probably come out on trump and maybe it will get worse. maybe we can drum him out of the race although trump was better, it doesn't change anything. she had something to lose. he didn't. he swung like crazy. she didn't handle it that well but nothing that would change the trajectory here. republicans, the phones are still buzzing. the issue is, there's no real path other than a trump voluntary withdrawal. so some of the people who are closest to the wing of the primary you know, the kinds of populist conservative wing that likes trump will be froze in place while others lo have to worry about swing voters will keep distancing. >> mike, let's dip in live to

hillary clinton's coming back to the press corps corps on her plain. >> we need to take off so that we can actually have some drinks served. my entire team is waiting for this airplane. >> how do you think you did? was it tougher than you expected? >> no, i pretty much saw what i expected to see. and that's why you know, the first thing i said was this is something that i've been saying since june. that he's not fit to be president and commander in chief and there are a lot of people who said it before and increasingly more adding that to the chorus. >> what did president clinton say to you afterwards? how did you president feel you did? >> right behind you. could you tell that. >> i could tell, yes. >> it was a very small space. and i tried to give him space whether he he was talking to

people. i would go back and you know, lean up against my stool. but he was very present. >> were you surprised by the tone? >> we're going to take off. >> were you surprised by tone of the debate and some of the people? >> nothing surprises me about him. really, da i was surprised by the absolute avalanche of falsehoods. i really find it almost unimaginable that someone can stand and just tell you know, a falsehood after falsehood and you know, you all remember politifact said he was the most untruthful candidate they'd ever evaluated and we sort of did the numbers. i think they said he was like 70% untruthful. and so i think he exceeded that percentage tonight. >> how did president clinton feel after. >> thank you, guys. >> can you tell us what the president said. >> i'll send you my two sturdy.

>> are you happy. >> we're very happy. >> to all those watching at home, please obey your flight attendants when they tell you to sit down during taxi and take off. >> that's the best thing of our campaign. >> that's a charter. it's routine. >> secret of campaigns. >> nobody wears their seat belts? >> nobody sits. >> people have stood during takeoff. people have stood during landing. > so disappointed. >> we don't condone it. >> bowling in the aisles. >> that's what happens on these charters. >> that's why we do it. >> it is kind of fun. >> this is why america hates us. another break and we'll be right back.

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we're back. people come and go so quickly around here. before we have our folks truth squadding, the new verb of the political season, some of what you heard tonight, it was withering. we were right in the middle of a conversation with mike murphy when hillary clinton appeared. he's gone. wow. >> oh, my god.

>> people come and go so quickly around here. >> not me and eugene. >> michael saved my question for the next time. >> the first poll numbers up. >> knock yourself out. >> polling in the immediate aftermath of a debate is something you should always be suspect of. oftentimes what people are referring to when they describe polling after a debate is things where you get to volunteer if you participate or not and it's beak garbage. there have been a couple actual polls taken tonight. one of them is from u gov. they did 812 registered voters. asking just the raw question, who do you think won the debate. the answer in the poll tonight is clinton won the debate, 47%, trump won the debate 4%. cnn has also done a debate post debate poll tonight where they have found people saying hillary clinton won the debate by a larger margin. cnn saying it's 357-34. clinton defeating trump. interestingly with that trump number, only 34% of people

saying trump won the debate. but 63% of people watching in the cnn poll say that trump did better than expected even though they think he lost. >> again, viewing this in the vacuum of this one event. almost impossible. as we have various members of the truth squad throughout there political season, pete williams has been covering his beat vis-a-vis what was said tonight. you had to do selective editing to inclucull down the car r cats >> he said there is no system for vetting syrian and other refugees. >> people are coming into our country like we have no idea who they are. where they are from. what their feelings about our country is and she wants 550% more. this is going to be the great trojan horse of all time. >> in fact, there is a system though even the secretary of

homeland security and the fbi director have said it's hard to know the details about some syrians because the country is falling apart. and it's impossible in many cases to check the records but here is the system. it starts with the u.n. the high commissioner for refugees decides who qualifies for refugee status. for those whose cases are referred to the u.s. for possible resettlementment, the department of homeland security interviews them. their names and fingerprints are checked against u.s. databases including terrorism database and syrian refugees get an extra collect on their backgrounds. the process takes about two years and the government says about half of those who seek refugee status end up getting it. mr. trump said tonight the u.s. needs to be certain that muslim americans report suspicious behavior when they see it and he offered this example of the deadly shooting rampage last december in san bernardino. >> we have to be sure that muslims come in and report when they see something going on, whether they see hatred going

on, they have to report it. as an example in san bernardino. many people saw the bombs all over the apartment of the two people who killed 14 and wounded many, many people. >> the fbi says investigators found pipe bombs in the garage of the house where the two attackers syed farouk and tashfeen ma ruk were living but there's no evidence other persons were aware and the only man charged in connection with the attack is enrique marquez. he did not convert to islam. there were some neighbors who said they saw something suspicious going on in the house before the attack but none talked about receiving the bombs. the couple said the two were often in the garage late at night but none of them claimed to have seen bombs or other explosives. >> pete, thanks. it is true we coo launch overnight programming from now till morning doing nothing but pulling out assertions made and going through the fact checking

process. it was that lengthy steve liesman, senior economic reporter with cnbc has been the guy looking at economic claims and other numeric claims during these debates. what do you have for us tonight. >> i want to make an overall comment. in addition to pete's and my work, we already monitor the var various fact chers at "the wall street journal," politifact. everybody has been very busy tonight fact checking donald trump. it simply is 3-1 in terms of the issues that are out there of donald trump compared to hillary clinton. maybe even 4-1. we don't have an exact measure. this issue that hillary clinton talked about this avalanche of lies it seems like it's much greater than it was in previous debates here. let me talk about comments made on taxes here where the tdebate their various tax plans >> i will tell you, hillary clinton is raising your taxes.

she's raising your taxes. really high. >> his plan will give the wealthy and corporations the biggest tax cuts they've ever had. more than the bush tax cuts by at least a factor of two. donald always takes care of donald and people like donald, and this would be a massive gift. >> so we can find no evidence that hillary clinton's tax plan will raise taxes on ordinary or middle income americans. she has a cutoff of $250,000 which is in some places you might consider that to be middle income but in most of the country is simply is not. however, there is evidence that donald trump, his plan might raise taxes for those in this $112,000, $190,000 single filers in that their taxes would probably go up under donald trump's plan. then there's an issue as to whether or not donald trump is actually going to benefit or will he be hurt by his own tax plan. listen to what he said.

>> one thing i do is get rid of carried interest. one of the greatest provisions for people like me to be honest with you, i give up a lot when i run because i knock out the bect the tax code. >> sorry, donald on that one. the claim that his tax plan would hurt him seems to be false. his business, real estate business, doesn't really use carried interest. we haven't seen his taxes so we're not certain he doesn't make use of this but in general the real estate business does not. his advisors have told me on several owe kags now that his tax plan would not change the part of the tax code that he used that would allow him to take that $916 million deduction. they think that is good tax policy. many democrats do. but he would not suffer in any way. in fact, given the tax cuts for the wealthy in his plan, in addition to the repealing of the estate tax, donald trump would appear to benefit handsomely from his own tax plan, brian.

>> it was the night that was, as we say, following the weekend that w that was. we'll be back right after a quick break. i spent many years as a nuclear missile launch officer.

if the president gave the order we had to launch the missis, th would be it. i prayed that call would never come. [ radio chatte] self controlay be all that keeps these missiles from firing. [ sirens blearing ] would bomb the [ beep] out them. i want to be unpredictable. i love war. the thought of donald trump with nuclear weapons scares me to death. it should scare everyone. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. hey team, i know we're tight on time, but i really need a... ...sick day tomorrow. momson'takeick days. moms take nyquil severe: the... ..ighttime sniffli,sneezg, ughing, acng, fever best... ..leep with a cold, medici.

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>> i have great respect for women. no one has more respect for women than i do. >> so for the record you're saying you never did that. >> frankly, you hear me these things that were said. i was embarrassed fwi but i have tremendous respect for women and women have respect for me. >> have you ever done these things. >> i will tell you, no i have not. i'll tell you i will make our country safe. we will have borders that we don't have now. >> an obscene videotape. released friday afternoon prompted the entire what first 28 minutes before we got to an audience question in tonight's debate. our presidential historian and author michael beshloss was watching with us. michael, for us turning our lonely eyes to you, looking for some basis -- >> thank you for that honor, brian. >> have we been here before, anything remotely close to how we've had so many guests that we

respect, members of this extended on-air family use the word dark, going into tonight, coming out of tonight, what a dark small debate this felt like. >> sure was. i felt as if i was living on another planet that planet sure was dark. and what was particularly different about tonight's debate from, you know, other nights in debate history, i think one was the obvious open hostility between the two candidates. they didn't even shake hands at the beginning. usually at least there is some pretense of friendliness or at least civility. this was devoid of humor from beginning to end. i think you can go through all the debates, back to 1960, you will not find that. and needless to say, you've never seen a candidate before telling the other, if i were president, you would be in jail. and the irony is that 1976 for instance, president ford, there was a special prosecutor looking into that administration, same

thing with president bush 41 in both 1988 and 1992. their challengers would never have dreamt of saying such a thing. >> we were talking friday night late friday night. just a simpler more innocent time friday night. where people thought the videotape may well be fatal. may well be disqualifying. we were talking about the lack of a controlling authority in this race specifically. i mentioned to lawrence on the air, hugh scott, barry gold water, john rhodes. walked up the white house drive way. the man or the figure, the principal, seldom knows when it's time for the principal to go was our conversation, having nothing to do with donald trump. but they were guyes who went and said, mr. president, president nixon, it's time you have no support in congress. >> the difference is there is a mechanism to throw nixon out of

office which was impeachment and conviction by that time was certain, that's what they were essentially telling nixon. in this case, as you have explored very much the last couple of days, there really is no way at this point for the republican national committee to go to donald trump and say, we are stripping you of this nomination. and so barring that, i can't imagine a situation which donald trump steps down. >> michael, in terms of what happens next here, obviously there's one more debate scheduled. i did feel like the one clear loser tonight might be chris wallace of fox news, scheduled to be the moderator, because it does seem like there is a prospect where that won't happen. i can't predict that, but it does seem to be on the table. is there a history of candidates opting out of some of the debate schedule once it is already started? we saw that in the primaries this year but how much at the presidential level? >> no, really not. there is a lot of jousting and

john mccain as you can remember in 2008 threatened at the last minute in that first debate with barack obama just after the lehman brothers incident in the crash, not to come to that debate and barack obama said, i'll come anyway. and of course the debate came off. >> michael beschloss, presidential historian. good to have you with us. >> thank you. >> michael, if any historic parallel comes up, please contact us immediately. >> so we can stop saying unprecedented all the time. >> yes. strange night to go with a strange weekend. we're going to cross the top of another hour here. remember where we've been since friday afternoon. this was an 11-year old videotape interview on a show called "access hollywood" with a host named billy bush. donald trump and billy bush inside a bus. donald trump was wearing a wireless microphone. it was quoted in language so

choice, some networks chose to air most of it without bleeps. it certainly needed onscreen warning. that prompted a weekend's worth of news coverage. news coverage about the fatality perhaps to the campaign. it has now gone through tonight's debate. here we are at the top of a fresh hour coming out of, as rachel put it, the second of three but will there be three? >> we'll see if there's a third one. i mean, i think you can make a case either candidate might see it to their advantage to opt out of the debate. at this point i think hillary clinton is on track to win the election and that donald trump is on track to lose. i think that donald trump probably did turn in the debate performance he was looking for. and certainly he has dropped and exploded the one nuclear bomb he thought he had in his arsenal in terms of going after bill clinton, inviting his sexual misconduct accusers from decades past to come sit front