choice, some networks chose to air most of it without bleeps. it certainly needed onscreen warning. that prompted a weekend's worth of news coverage. news coverage about the fatality perhaps to the campaign. it has now gone through tonight's debate. here we are at the top of a fresh hour coming out of, as rachel put it, the second of three but will there be three? >> we'll see if there's a third one. i mean, i think you can make a case either candidate might see it to their advantage to opt out of the debate. at this point i think hillary clinton is on track to win the election and that donald trump is on track to lose. i think that donald trump probably did turn in the debate performance he was looking for. and certainly he has dropped and exploded the one nuclear bomb he thought he had in his arsenal in terms of going after bill clinton, inviting his sexual misconduct accusers from decades past to come sit front row with the trump family.

that bomb has now exploded. i'm not sure what else trump feels like he could do with the debate but we'll see if they continue to -- if they continue to plan to do this. i would also just note, in terms of this was a very difficult debate, i think to moderate for the moderators, anderson cooper and martha raddatz. handling emotional hot material, tense material, changing right up to air time, and having to incorporate the voters who had their vetted questions ready to go. uncommitted voters in the room. and managing candidates, one of whom very much turned against them. saying it is three on one. you're against me the way donald trump put that to them and hillary clinton who add completely different style than donald trump, that alone, that imbalance is hard to dealwith. i think they did a very credible, very good job in terms of handling what was a very difficult circumstance. obviously you can't ever be perfect but i do think they did good work. i think it'll go down in history

in terms of the way moderators handle hot issues and debates. wait that they dealt with this tape, this obscene tape, of donald trump, which dropped just a couple dayes before this debate. first question of the debate went to someone in the room, a voter, uncommitted voter, first moderator question, was from anderson cooper to donald trump, and it was an intense thing. you called what you said locker room banter. you describe kissing women without consent, grabbing their gener genitals, that is sexual assault, period. you have admitted to sexual assault, do you understand that. >> that is the first question from the moderator in the debate tonight. god help us, may we never ever have a presidential contest in which that's the appropriate first question. but that is a -- just a shocking reminder of how far we have ended up here. >> you hope all the kids were in bed, right? and you're not supposed to hope that in a presidential debate. i think will go down as the

scowling stalker debate. and i think historians will remember this debate to the extent that they do for that. it wasn't just a visual for that presence, for what happened. >> for trump's decision about how to comport himself on stage. >> i don't even know if it was a decision. it could have been involuntary. whatever it was -- it just dominated the whole debate. where is he now? what is he doing now? why is he looking at -- >> do you think that pacing was also -- not the pacing in terms of the tempo but literally walking back and forth across the stage the entire time, was that also -- was that also part of the lurking, part of the physically taking up the space in the way you're describing? >> i don't know that that was scripted. i don't know that that was a decision. i don't -- >> they probably didn't get to it. i mean, you have to look at how debate prep went for them. they were on track to prepare for than they had previously and friday at 4:00 when they were in debate prep and their debate prep was much more formal than

last time. they had someone playing hillary clinton. someone playing moderator. their world exploded. i think this debate will be forgotten because i don't think it changed anything. before the debate started, we were talking about an access hollywood tape where he said unfathomable things, things that upset, not just the gop establishment, but the women in his own life. and the reality is, when i asked kellyanne -- >> did you think with your family members -- >> when your spouse has to put out a statement assuring the world she was offended by the words and the statement goes in the campaigns letter head which means political staff was involved, you can rest assured that the spouse was upset. and when the tape comes out and you have to do, you know, i understood that there was a moment when he wasn't sure it was him. they got the audio first, then the video. yeah, that was me. we're talking about a debate that doesn't sort of electrify the race the way that tape did.

i understand we are here covering a live event because that's what we do and that's what happened. but what election tryfide the campaign and what evoked the removal of an endorsement like people like hugh hewitt and what will continue to elicit the peeling off of republicans, is not what we just watched, it is the tape that broke at 4:00. and what mothers will continue to shield their children from is the tape that broke at 4:00. >> chris matthews said as much. chris, everyone has now been incentivized. everyone who has an anecdote, story, god for bid, tape, audio or video, everyone has been incentivized to come forward. >> i guess you're right. i think the damage done is permanent as they like to say, as we all know, and videotapes are and audio tapes are endurable. durable goods for the opponent and they have used with the conversation i have with trump where he said that women, there

needs to be some form punishment. i think a lot of women that will say that what trump did in the video there has to be punishment for that, and no one talked about, i have to talk about it, hillary clinton as i was watching her very closely tonight, her whole presentation. she looked great. she looked great in terms of presidentialness. i mentioned talking about women's looks and all that but everything about her was presidential tonight. her poise, her speech delivery. confident. she has a beautiful voice. i've said that for years. she has a beautiful voice when she is speaking in a conversational manner and she was tonight. she never got as far as can i tell she never got stressed out by the tenseness of the conflict tonight. and i noticed afterwards when she got on that plane with the small number of reporters, again, very winning. she add winning personality again. i think she knows from what -- everybody has been talking about

tonight from the battle ground state reports, that this states that trump needed to win and they would include florida, ohio, of course north carolina and on to pennsylvania and virginia. he is not on those lists any more and hillary won them all. she is doing well. this trend will continue. i do believe tonight's debate isn't that important. i don't believe it'll vbt clarity of who won, who lost like others had. and i believe what happened over the weekend was accessible to everyone. high school boys and girls. 14 years old. know exactly what they are talking about in that tape. they will remember it forever. and certainly through the elections. so i think that this was an aftermath. this is fall out perhaps tonight from what we saw over the weekend. but we will still find ourselves watching that videotape again and again and again and you got believe that hillary clinton people have figured out a way or they will soon of how to put it into our faces right before we go to vote. so i still think that's much

bigger story than tonight and i always hype our broad casts and hype when we're on. i just thought tonight's debate was very depressing. very unsatisfactory. and to tell rudy tell his story. averages ought to two baghdad bombs going at each other. it was an indecisive event for both candidates. >> chris, can i ask you a question, and if this is too indiscreet, can you just tell me to buzz off, you don't have to answer. but watching you interview rudy giuliani tonight, i'm struck by the number of times i've seen you interview him, i know you have talked to him a number of times offer the years. and when talking about donald trump tonight, he seems a little off to me. he seems nuts. he doesn't seem that cogent and coherent, as someone who knows him, do you feel he is a different man than he used to

be. >> well, he is a compelling public figure. with hanover and the divorce and it was very messy and there is a thing with him that has gravitas. i do congratulate him for 9/11. but i hate rolling disclosure and i love it when political figures give you the information as they get it. i just love it. for whatever godly reason during 9/11, he did that. he was giving us information as he got it, on the street corner. i love to see politicians on the street corner when there is a five-alarm fire. i want them there. show up and give us the information you get as you get it. i thought he did that during 9/11. i have always been very admiring of him for that. what we're getting now is flakery. you're right. pure and simple flakery. now carve rel is better about it

because he lives flakry. he is honest and find a way his client can look good by wait he sees things. he doesn't lie. he is very interesting. he is such a loyalist. but he gets enthusiastic. ton spainus in his love of the clintons and it comes through. rudy is much more rude, i think you're right. am i answering this? there is something not quite spontaneous or credible in it. but i know what he is doing. he is a loyalist and he is showing he is loyal but it doesn't have the really good flaking. >> the dynamic between you two has changed over time and i have seen it and i just wanted to see if you saw it that way too, thank you, my friend. >> i think it will get back to normal about november 9. >> when he is press sector whatever. yeah. >> wow, on occasion candor breaks out. that was a moment. >> well, having a colleague like chris matthews who has been in this field and is so, has always been the same person and has the kind of longitudal experience with these long time political

leaders that he has, like actually chris is a great barometer in terms of figuring out whether or not people are the same person they have always been or changed. because chris is absolutely the same person he has always been and he is rock solid in terms of the way he can assess where people are at. >> and his nerve endings haven't deaden offered the years. >> no. he is a life wire. >> i'm a muslim, i would like to report a crazy man threatening a woman on a stage in missouri, was tweeted out. maria teresa kamara standing by to talk to us. and ceo of voto latino. here is the question. donald trump was supposed to this past week, pick up voters he didn't have. he was certainly supposed to stop defections over the last 72

hours. what do you think he did on that score? >> i think he failed. the whole purpose we should be talking about, we're not talking today about whether or not he is up in the polls. what he was hoping to do basically was stop the defection of republicans that are in swing states. republicans in order to stop that defection were asking him to simply apologize. that first question from anderson cooper was him to basically set up for him to apologize for what he did. you never heard an apology. instead what you heard an apology. he said the real problem is we have to secure our borders. the other thing we found curious is we have to dig into it more it is he has this aher authorit to him. this isn't the first time he has mentioned using the oval office for personal vendettas. the first time was against the judge. don't you wait, when i become president i'm going to make sure that you're completely

investigated. i can't agree more with joanne reed. my family came from colombia. and all of a sudden the idea you had a political voice you were sanctioned and ensured you wouldn't be able to compete in any type of government. every single immigrant right now has literal lit backs of their hair is literally on fire saying wait second, what is this man doing in threatening the oval office for personal vendettas. the fact that we are not sinking our teeth into it and peeling back what it means is disturb g disturbing. and when he mentioned captain khan, my heart just was wrenching. it was as if it was a personal blow to me and i think to so many americans because it was an ultimate blow of a man who sacrificed for this country and to even tell a family that he would have done it different, you can't do hindsight in 20/20. that's unfair. >> maria teresa kumar, thank you for being part of our post

debate coverage tonight and always. appreciate it. >> we have been watching tonight's debate and reactions to it unfold alongside a special and expert group of truth squatters. we are looking at justice and legal issues. we also have richard engel looking at military national security and foreign policy issues for us. richard engel, as always, up until an absolutely obscene hour where it is daylight where he is, richard, what did you see where it seemed like it needed truth-squatting attention? >> i think it was a sad day for the united states frankly. an angry debate. it was bitter. candidates seemed to truly hate each other. i thought it was going to turn into physical violence at one stage. it looked awful. and i that i reflects badly on the united states. the united states likes to present itself as a model of democracy.

a model that should be immolated around the world. and i think it would be hard for any country watching to say we want that political system. we want to immolate it. specifically, there was this issue of russia and hacking. and it came up in the last debate where trump said that well we don't know if anyone is hacking the american political system or trying to influence politics. maybe just some 400-year-old kid in his bedroom. today he didn't suggest it was a 400-pound person in his bedroom. he said, that nobody knows if hacking is actually taking place let alone if it is being directed by russia. let's take a listen. >> i notice any time anything wrong happens, they like to say the russians. she doesn't know if the russians are doing the hacking. maybe there is no hacking. the reason they blame russia is because they think they are trying to tarnish me with russia. >> first of all, he said maybe

there is no hacking. there is certainly hacking. just ask colin powell who had his entire inbox released. just ask the dnc which had confidential correspondence released. and on friday the director of national intelligence and homeland security joint statement saying they are confident that this hacking was done by the highest levels moscow. i just returned from siberia. we met the owner of a company, a russian-based company, and he admitted his server company was used to launch some of the attacks against the united states. so that is one thing that i don't quite understand. why is it that donald trump continues to deny that the hacking is an issue and deny the russia connection. is there more there that he is concerned about coming out in the future? the other part was about syria

and assad. apparently aligning himself with syria and assad and iran who are universally condemned right now as among the worst perpetrators of war crimes or alleged war crimes going on in syria. >> i don't like assad at all.ne. but assad is killing isis. russia is killing isis. and iran is killing isis. and those three have now lined up because of our weak foreign policy. >> in terms of russia bombing isis, there is a russian bombing campaign going on right now, particularly in arizona -- surrounding and in aleppo. and according to a study getting attention today, only about 26% of russian air strikes were targeting isis a few months ago. that is down to 17% of their air strikes now. which leaves the question, what

are their other 83% of air strikes targeting? and if you ask the people of aleppo, they say they are targeting opposition groups and civilians. >> maybe not the convenient isis fighting partner donald trump had in mind. >> and also, richard, absolutely echoing assad and the way the russians and iranians like to talk about themselves in this field. which no one in this country credibly agrees with us. richard engel, awake well into the daylight hours. >> you can hear the seagulls. >> you're the greatest richard engel. thanks so much, man. >> our coverage continues after a break. guess what guys, i switched to sprint.

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would either of you name one positive thing that you respect in one another? [ applause ]

>> mr. trump, would you like to go first? >> well, i certainly will. because i think that's a very fair and important question. look, i respect his children. his children are incredibly able and devoted and i think that says a lot about donald. i don't agree with nearly anything else he says or does, but i do respect that. and i think that is something that as a mother and grandmother is very important to me. >> i will say this about hillary, she doesn't quit and she doesn't give up. i respect that. i tell it like it is. she's a fighter. i disagree with much of what she is fighting for. i do disagree with her judgment in many cases.

but she does fight hard and she doesn't quit and she doesn't give up. and i consider that to be a very good trait. >> first nice moment since about january. >> it was actually such a release valve, i think in the room. the audience add ced a couple o reaction moments. they had one where they applauded trump. they had one where they applauded clinton louder. and they were admonished not to do that. and they were quiet rest of the debate. and the huge bipartisan outburst of applause for the question was heartening. everyone saying this is a bad night for america, bad night for american politics. i think the enthusiasm, genuine emotional warmth toward, please, say something nice about each other, shows you where the american people's heart is in this subject, if not where our candidates are. to me, that was, god bless that guy for asking the question. but i was heartened by the response in the room that people

were so encouraging and wanted to hear it. >> chris matthews in st. louis has a special guest. a man who knows all the answers. chris? >> by the way, along the lines of what you say, guys, you usually have to wait for the concession speeches to hear that. which we heard early tonight. i know your heart was rising up. ben, thank you for coming on and waiting. the last 24 hours have been like nothing i've seen. incredible. like the restaurant scene in godfather. every second seemed like an hour. i'm watching it and only like 12 hours agoo, "meet the press," chuck with that long scroll of republican big shots who were drifting way or pulling away from trump, is that going to stop in the next 24, 48 hours or will that bleeding continue? >> so my guess is that donald trump was good night tonight to stop that bleeding. that there will be calls tomorrow morning where people will try and figure out what the politics of individual states or districts are. there are a couple of things to

look at. one is the way this plays in individual states, individual district. the way the polling will work. the second is the sort of interesting role that republican national committee and the reports that they're pulling back. what these 48 hours mean is that fund raisi fund-raising will be really tough for the trump campaign in terms of high dollar work. that's less field operating. >> so trump was asked by one of the moderators about what he thought pence said about syria. he said, we haven't talked. he's wrong. i think we all captured the tone of that remark. it sound like they are having a little marital tiff between

them. >> it did sound like that. but pence said he is on the team and tonight's performance is enough to keep him on the team. you don't want a whole lot of discord on the team. >> there is no way of getting off it, is there? >> i don't think so. especially not after tonight. even if he wanted to, i think that he probably does feel a responsibility to house candidates and to senate candidates who in large measure are coming to look to him to help him out. >> i know about a wager. i won't say i'm involved in it but someone i know and trust politically says he doesn't think trump will get more than ten states. could it get that bad right now? the way things are going now? he would end up with a small minority of the states and bad showing? >> that's the interesting question. he said, i'm not going to be a quitter but the other side of the equation is suppose the results come out really badly. it would be devastating to have a walter mondale type performance i would think for

anyone in his position. so he's got to weigh that as well. >> about whether he quit? >> yeah. about how you play the rest of the campaign. >> is there an alternative to trying to win and accepting defeat. is there a middle road there? middle road for trump? can he cut his losses but know he will lose? >> twhat is traditionally done in politics is to be a statesman. but that is not what we saw tonight in the debate. and -- >> he wasn't -- >> he wasn't the very end with the last question and yeah -- >> looks to me like he is trying to take -- guys, in that last great question for the moderator, for one of the people in the town hall, that donald trump was trying to take what he call the edge off the campaign. i remember this from years ago, you know people are angry and you know it is not going your direction. you try lighten a little bit. cut down on that passion. that's not going in your direction. that is one way to read what we saw there at the end by trump. >> chris matthews, ben ginsburg,

thank you, gentlemen. >> we are getting one snapshot of how this debate will go down in the news cycle in politics. i will give you ahead lines, front coveres from the two competing new york tabloids. first up, new york daily news, you see they've inset their previous headline from saturday mornings edition which quoted donald trump from the inside edition video, grab them by the -- >> and kitty cat faces. >> and here, insetting that to remind you of that and headline is grab a seat, loseer. showing donald trump grabbing his seat which is one of the things he physically did. trump's vile comments take center stage. help hand hill another debate win. they are criticizing both for his physical affect on stage and continued centrality of the access hollywood video and donald trump remarks. here is, though, the new york post. which tends to lead more right wing. more pro trump in this election

sometimes. and their highlighting two things about trump. again his physical affect. look at the pink inset there. look, he is right behind pu. which i think is how a lot of people -- >> eugene robinson theory. >> and nicole's take away as well. but their big take away, in terms of what he said, the shocking thing from the debate, jail to the chief. trump says, if i win, i'd lock her up. i do think that those -- the post and news are always entertaining. but grabbing both of them, even though they took other things away from the debate, both of them grabbing on to trump's physical presence on the stage and the way he loomed over clinton and grabbed his chair and stormed around and stomped around sieged and paced, that will be a big part of the way people think about this stuff. the nonverbal stuff that matters the most sometimes. >> who said it was a dark night in modern democracy. we're back with more right after this. the pursuit of healthier.

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♪ ♪ ♪ only thoseho dare drive the world forward. the cadillac ct6 mr. trump, let me repeat the question. if you were president, what would you do about syrian and the humanitarian crisis in aleppo. and i want to remind you what your running mate said. he said, provocations by russia need to be met with american strength and if russia continues to be involved in air strikes

along with the syrian government forces of assad, the united states of america should be prepared to use military force to strike the military targets of the assad regime. >> okay. he and i haven't spoken and i disagree. >> you disagree with your running mate? >> he and i haven't spoken. >> it was a moment. >> so the quote from mike pence that martha raddatz was reading to donald trump there was from the vice presidential debate which was just a few days guy. it was a few days guy. donald trump is saying he hasn't spoken with mike pence since then and i disagree, cold, i disagree, nothing good about mike pence, nothing to warm it up, but they haven't spoken. as if they are not running together. >> i took that to mean they haven't spoken about that copy point. >> miaybe. >> that's what i took it. >> that's not what he said.

>> a salient foreign policy issue that presumably, if aleppo was still around, the next president would have to deal with like immediately, you know, or not deal with, and i took it to mean they haven't had a discussion about how they feel about that discussion. >> kellyanne conway is the link between trump and pence. she was on the plane as a show of support behind donald trump on a very difficult day for him. i thought he should have been more careful. i took it the way you took it. but i thought it was a day to have a better answer than i have not talked to him. seeming to imply distance when he has to be aware there are news reports. since the vice presidential debate there has been a lot of talk. i said that night that a lot of people would be happy to flip the ticket and have mike pence at the top. and i thought it was a -- i don't think it is something he should have said. >> let's face it. mike pence did seem to have a policy about aleppo,

specifically, and donald trump actually you know said i don't agree with that. and you know, he went with the russians or iranians are doing, then went to mosul. and martha raddatz tried to get him back on the subject -- >> that's substance. i think what you are getting out of it is optics. that's where, you know, we are -- it is our job to dig into the substance but the optics here -- >> you're totally right, mike pence laid out a policy on syria that was diametrically opposite to what donald trump's policy is on syria. on my shot next day i add whole rant about how they need to sort this out. they are in pop sit policies here. it is one of the things that stood out from the vice presidential debate. maybe they didn't talk about that but if they talked about anything would you have thought that would be one of the things

they would talk about. >> it is the job of the campaign staff to bring the two people on the ticket together. and you all know my obsession with his -- this might be a love he can't abandon. he sees putin and russia's role in syria as benevolent when it is nothing but. the government broke down all talks. it is a dangerous sort of line of ideology on trump's part to continue to cling to this and not take a position -- >> and in political terms, whether or not pence stays on the donald trump ticket is an open question for a lot of political observers right now. for trump to not pay any sort of, you know, a compliment, to not sort of any wooing of his, no compliments, no warmth towards his running mate. >> to say it is on our calendar to sit down and talk this through. i thought it was carelessness with the words he useed. >> steve schmidt is a political observer. a man in the arena.

steve, okay, start with this. this persistent mike pence rumor that won't go away. pence tweeted, i'm going to be at his side. but then we learn that pence cancelled some events tomorrow at least fund-raiser and stop in new jersey. so what damage assessment, as of tonight, if we froze time, what's the damage assessment that the bda on the gop? >> oh, the party is just unprecedentedly bad shape. the republican party, presidential campaign imploded. what mike murphy says is that donald trump is politically dead coming into this debate and once you're dead, you're dead. you don't come back it life. he's dead. donald trump will not be elected president of the united states on november 8th. hillary clinton will be the 45th president for sure. and there t is likely chuck

schumer will be majority heard. and when we look at growing hillary clinton lead out of all the stories that have come over the last ten days, there will be a real panic that republicans could lose the house of representatives. and i think the one thing we have not talked about tonight, but the most significant moment in the debate is this one. has donald trump made a clear and unequivocal statement that what he was engaged in was locker room banter. he apologized for it. he said it was unfortunate. but he made the point that there would be no women coming forward saying that he had in fact had women coming forward, that he made advances, touching, assaults. what happens if over the next three or four days women begin to come forward who says he did exactly what it is that he just denied on the debate stage in

front of some number of tens of millions of americans? the mike pence brand and fusion in the republican party between evangelical christianity and conservative politics, it is not without accident that mike pence goes out and he says, very sincerely, i'm a christian, i'm a conservative and a republican in that order. it's his signature line. his political brand. well, fw that's true and you listen to the tape, how does he proudly stand with his running mate that that line was just a rhetorical device. it is enormously damaging it mike pence. just like we saw ted cruz do enormous damage by adopting the pose of principle during the republican convention. in this week in an episode of

really unfortunate timing he decides that thursday would be a great day to do phone banking for donald trump. so i think that we shouldn't underestimate how hard it is to build brand value and how easy it is to destroy it with hypocrisy. >> can i just ask on the point you're making about mike pence, i absolutely hear you in terms of what mike pence has built up painstakingly over the course of his entire political career, all wait back to his time on the radio. in terms of being a christian, conservative and republican and in that order. do you think that mike pence should drop off the ticket? >> i that i mike pence has cause to drop off of the cket. it will be interesting to see. look, john kennedy wrote a book called "profiles and courage" and the kennedy library gives out award every year for profiles and courage. the rarest thing in american life is a politician who has the

courage of his or her convictions. it would be a real profile and courage for him to do it. but it is one or the other. a real profile and courage or he will make a careerest decision. and the careerist decision is deeply undermining to his brand. and i that i anybody who thinks that microsoft pence on the debate performance where he was able to shake his head repeatedly no with a lot of sincerity is the front-runner on that basis in 2020 and is not go tock tainted by this. with a broad hypocrisy brush with so much of the republican party will be tainted by. is delusional. >> maybe some of this is what's going on behind the scenes. and maybe it is us who is delusional. who are delusional. >> we will see when mike pence surfaces.

mike pence was initially supposed to be with donald trump in wisconsin saturday. trump was disinvited. he said pence would be there in his place. pence elected not to go. cancelled the rest of his events this weekend. now appears to have cancelled his events tomorrow. we have a supportive tweet from mike pence tonight even after donald trump effectively threw him under the bus live on the debate stage. we will see when we take mike pence and take question owns this. >> first, let me thank steve schmidt for clarity, force fullness and courage of your own for saying some of the things you've said over the past few days. a break and members of our troops we we come back. e, it was an idea. a wild "what-if." so scientists went to work. they examined 87 different protein structures d worked for 12 long years. there were thousands of patient volunteers

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- i was diagnosed with parin early 2013.lly it took awhile to sink in. we had to think a little more seriously about saving money for the future and for the kids. - the income of airbnb really helped to mitigate the stress. - but we have that flexibility of knowing that if you know things get worse, we have this to help keep us afloat. - so that's very, very important for us. we received a lot of questions on-line, mr. trump,

about the tape. you described locker room banter, kissing women and grabbing their genitals. that is sexual assault. you bragged about sexual assault, do you understand that? >> no, that's a not what it was. i don'ty think you understand. this is locker room talk. i apologize to my family. apologize to the public. this is locker room talk. where you have a world of isis chopping of a heads, where you have people drowning people in steel cages where you have war answers horrible sight all over andsome bad things happening, this is like medieval times. we haven't seen anything like this, carnage all over the world and they look and see, can you imagine the people that are frankly doing so well against us with isis and they look at our country and see what's going on. yes, i'm very embarrassed by it.

i hate it. but it is locker room talk and it is one of those things. >> i think that moment -- that is sexual assault. you bragged you sexually assaulted women. do you understand that? >> no. i don't think you understood what was said. >> yeah. >> slash, isisisis. >> isis. >> yes. remarkable moment. >> it was a remarkable moment in the debate and one that people will remember. and let's face it. how he will deal with the famt. and isis, which was a weird place to go and not do engage at all. say something nice about women. that is not what he usually talks about. apologize to your wife. your daughter. >> very interesting. something steve schmidt was saying a while ago, the question that if trump looses, and i

think he will too, the republican party and you have the establishment figures who were never trump and who just wouldn't go down that road, and because they saw where it was at and who were collaborative. collaborationi collaborationists. and made a accommodations with a figure who, if he loses, will be generally reviled in among party leaders and officials. so how does that shake out and what do do with the trump face? they aren't going away. >> and in republican circles people that have never gone ben on board and took a lot of flak for it, feeling exacerbated and that pence can save himself and if he just gets off now, 2 the days before the election.

they think it is as nine and i don't think this is just about jeb bush but the people that were sort of constantly never give up the effort. john kasich never came on board and a lot of people that said his character we know his character. we didn't need a tape to come out from access hollywood of him and billy bush chorteling about grabbing women, i can't say that word -- >> we got it. >> and that they didn't it need to know that to know about his character. so there is a real, the clash already started and the fight inside the gop isn't going to wait until election day to begin. it started. it was boiling over the weekend. >> and never trump people are honestly, i got to say, right to have that concern. to see these people who had initial concern about trump, voiced eloquently their initial concerns and when it looked like would he win the nomination and do well, they decided this were on board with him, those people

can't have the moral high ground when they get off the trump train. the people with the moral high ground are the ones that weren't on it in the first place. makes me crazy. sorry. >> the well who call at the pentagon for us, if you grew up here is courtney, our veteran pentagon and national security producer. courtney is part of our fact team. courtney, what have you dug up tonight from the debate? >> we have heard a lot about what donald trump said about syria and isis but we have not heard one thing that hillary clinton said that may have raised a few eyebrows among u.s. military and defense official possess. let's take a listen. >> i hope by the time i am president that we will have pushed isis out of iraq. i do think there is a good chance we can take mosul. >> the reality is, it is possible. probably likely that battle for mosul will be taking place probably within the next several

weeks. and it's plausible that the city could be secure by inauguration in january of 2017. not terribly likely but plausible. but the reality is, even once mosul has fallen, that will not be the end of isis in iraq. just there past week we add briefing here at pentagon bay brigadier general, canadian brigadier general and part of the task in baghdad. he explained that even when mosul falls, it won't be the end of isis or defeat of isis. he warned of the next step is that is that isis will melt back into the population and create an insurgency. as we have seen in iraq that has the most dangerous point for ice tlis tl i i isis in that country. >> courtney, thank you. another break and we're back a

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did you use that $960 million loss to avoid paying personal federal income taxes? >> of course i do. so do all of her donors or most of her donors. i will tell you that number one i pay tremendous numbers of taxes. i absolutely used it. so did warren buffett, so did george soros and so did many of the other people that hillary is getting money from. >> has habit of pointing to people he is talking to. >> he sort of i think admitted there that he doesn't pay

federal taxes or hasn't been or uses federal deductions that way. and our good friend lawrence o'donnell has been a tiger on the issue of donald trump etaxes among other things. lawrence, what's your take on this this is. >> very striking rachel that used the present tense. he said, of course i do. meanhe is still living off that $960 million deduction that he really did, basically, take it at least 15 years forward from when he declared it. and that is an interesting indicator that his income, his actual received income is much lower than he wants people to believe. because if a $900 million deduction lasts you 15 years that means you did not make $900 million in that 15 years. and so, he has always wanted to suggest he is making several

hundred million dollars year. in fact the income we saw on the one page of tax returns released and as new york state home state tax return he showed $3.4 million of income that i think would have made him the lowest paid new york yankee that year, in 1995. never mind this year. that i think is on his returns, actual pictures of his real income, forget the deductions, for get the zero tax rate p, the thing he is most afraid of people seeing is what is his actual income and tax he return we saw, pages we saw, those were not the pages of a billionaire. and you know, just on the debate tonight there are so many things that it is amazing that in the amount of time we have we don't end up with another time to refer to all of amazing and stunning things in that debate and things that would be giant front page head if they were the only thing that happened in the

debate, including him saying that hillary clinton has hatred in her heart. but donald trump actually said nobody has more respect for women than i do. the ridiculousness of that statement is incalculatable, and no one in history, including a woman, would say that in any presidential debate. this guy says that kind of thing and it flies by and there's dozens and dozens of those things throughout the debate. >> it is remarkable. >> it really is remarkable. as is, a candidate who says, if he is elected will put his opponent in jail. that just doesn't happen everyday in a country like this. >> and the difference of opinion on donald trump and mike pence on syria policy, i don't know what that is. i listened and i have no idea what donald trump's syria policy is. hillary clinton specifically said she would not commit ground troops to syria.

that's very clear. but not one clear sentence tonight from donald trump about anything involving syria that he would decide to do as commander-in-chief. >> lawrence o'donnell, thank to trump about anything involving syria that he would decide to do as commander in chief. >> lawrence o'donnell, thank you for being part of this conversation. let's bring chris matthews in. chris? >> well, thank you. i do think it was not a great night for american politics. it was probably something to slow the fires of frustration with the candidate of the republican party. but we'll see in the next 48 hours. we're here again on the campus of washington university in st. louis. a beautiful campus. after the second presidential debate between hillary clinton and donald trump. this one had a far less clear outcome, i