that's very clear. but not one clear sentence tonight from donald trump about anything involving syria that he would decide to do as commander-in-chief. >> lawrence o'donnell, thank to trump about anything involving syria that he would decide to do as commander in chief. >> lawrence o'donnell, thank you for being part of this conversation. let's bring chris matthews in. chris? >> well, thank you. i do think it was not a great night for american politics. it was probably something to slow the fires of frustration with the candidate of the republican party. but we'll see in the next 48 hours. we're here again on the campus of washington university in st. louis. a beautiful campus. after the second presidential debate between hillary clinton and donald trump. this one had a far less clear outcome, i believe.

it did offer plenty of fire work. after a weekend of crisis, trump held a press avail with several women that accused bill clinton of sexual misconduct and rape. trump and clinton traded blows, accusing each other of lying, not paying taxes in his case, and being full of hate. let's watch. >> honest abe never lied that's the big difference between abraham lincoln and you. >> it is amusing to hear somebody who hasn't fade federal income taxes in 20 years talk about -- >> you were in total contact with the white house and perhaps sadly obama probably still listened to you. >> donald says he knows more about isis than the generals. no, he doesn't. >> we have a divided nation because of people like her. believe me, she has tremendous hate in her heart. and when she said "deplorables," she meant it. >> as i mentioned, a trio of

bill clinton accusers were in the debate tonight. let's watch. >> if you look at bill clinton, far worse. mine are words and his was action. what he's done to women, there's never been anybody in the history of politics in this nation that's been so abusive to women. so you can say any way you want to say it, but bill clinton was abusive to women. hillary clinton attacked those same women and attacked them viciously. four of them here tonight. >> here's how secretary clinton responded to that. >> so much of what he's just said is not right. but he gets to run his campaign any way he chooses. he gets to decide what he wants to talk about instead of answering people's questions, talking about our agenda, laying out the plans that we have that

we think can make a better life and a better country. that's his choice. when i hear something like that, i am reminded of what my friend, michelle obama, advised us all -- when they go low, you go high. >> so does the better trump, alec baldwin or trump himself? i thought mr. trump tonight, in all due respect, was imitating what we saw on "saturday night." >> there were times when it was falling into the baldwin impersonation. >> why was he leaning over her from behind. why was that camera angle so oddly placed? >> i think it was donald trump. i described his performance tonight as thuggish. >> what is he doing there? >> this is somebody that add mitted to groping women, bragged

about it. >> is that thuggish? >> yes. he's using his physical presence to intimidate her. that is the still picture being tweeted out all over the world. it is weird. it is thuggish. [ overlapping speakers ] >> very different strategies. she sat when she was not speaking. he stayed standing the whole time. but there was an air of menace to the whole thing. >> you think so? >> let's get some counterpoints to that. >> they were both playing psychological warfare on that stage. she moved into his space in that area. you can answer the question, you don't have to move into that space. donald trump was tracking her. they were both playing that psychological warfare with each other throughout the whole evening, which is what made this

taste and sound and feel just weird. it was not a very good debate overall. donald trump scored the points he needed to score to keep his base a bit in check. there were nuclear moments in this debate, which i was very concerned about, particularly in the beginning, which was not good for the party as a whole. no one is thinking strategically about how this damn party survives beyond this election. they're not. that was very evident tonight. >> richard engel weighed in from turkey tonight that this debate looked bad for america. that if you watched this debate and you were a person of broad interest of where america was going, you have no idea. and it was nothing -- i'll defer to chris on this, i don't think anybody has ever been accused of being a liar at all, much less this many times. which resonates with donald trump supporters. it's cathartic to have them the e-mails brought up, the double standard brought up. it does not advance the image of

america. this was a knowledge free debate, because fact checking becomes -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> joy reid -- >> i think when hillary clinton was asked a question, she answered it. she managed to look at the person who asked her the question and answer it. donald trump, i heard words come out and he didn't answer the questions given. it did look bad that you had a candidate for president of the united states. he doesn't appear to know anything other than the fact he wants to jail his opponent. >> let's remember what the preamble was, which was the craziest thing anyone has seen, which was hey, check out my facebook live as i sit here in this room with these four women and i'm going to bring them in, and the whole thing had this

wr wrestlemania reality tv thing. >> but it's a double standard of the treatment of democrats versus the treatment of republicans. it is deep and it is real. >> i understand that feeling and i have to say quite honestly, if bill clinton were running in 2016 and juanita broderick's story was around, that would look real different. >> did anybody do a big interview with any of the thee women accusers tonight? we did some. >> however, you have -- >> in other words -- >> but trump supporters are trashing jill hart right now. she filed a sexual harassment lawsuit alleging that donald trump dprogroped her is being attacked by donald trump supporters. so people are saying listen to juanita broderick, but we are now going to trash jill hart who

made a credible accusation against donald trump. >> giuliani said james comey put martha stewart in jail for lying to the fbi. >> my question about comey is, there's two parts of this case, right? there's the one part of the case of what she did, and then there's the part of the case that the fbi, essentially the fix was in. if you're going to say what the determination of the fbi was wrong, you have to put that on comey, right? you have to not sort of beat around the bush. and so if you're going to make that accusation against james comey, make that accusation. >> what donald trump said was my experience is that fbi agents and former assistant united states attorneys have written to me and said that what the fbi did here was unprecedented, because they never make recommendations on prosecution.

>> it's not unprecedented. >> let's -- >> one person has been prosecuted under that statute, one. [ overlapping speakers ] >> in the case of david petraeus -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> you're arguing the fbi was out of line? >> i'm arguing that donald trump made real points how the fbi investigation was hmishandled from the beginning -- >> the reason the fbi took that step, of course, is because loretta lynch is an appointee of the president of the united states, who is barack obama. had loretta lynch made the determination, everybody would say she's compromised. james comey is a republican appointee. >> trump repeatedly called the words he said on that 2005 tape locker room talk.

even when the moderator pushed him whether it mounted to sexual assault. >> you bragged you have sexually assaulted women. do you understand that? >> no, i didn't say that at all. i don't think you understood it. this was locker room talk. i'm not proud of it. i apologize to my family and apologize to the american people. certainly i'm not proud of it. but this is locker room talk. >> just for the record, though, are you saying what you said on that bus 11 years ago, that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent? >> i have great respect for women. nobody has respect for women than i do. >> for the record, you're saying you didn't do that? >> i was embarrassed by it, but i have tremendous respect for women. women have respect for me. and i will tell you, no, i have not. >> we all agree that was practiced. that was the limited, modified hangout, as they said in watergate where he was going to acknowledge guilt in locker room

conversation but denying all personal behavior. >> you have an expensive "new york times" story that quotes the miss utah of 1997 who said donald trump kissed her on the lips without her consent and she was disgusted by it. you have jill hart who said that donald trump repeatedly tried to force her to have sex with him. she filed a suit that was settled because he failed to pay her and her boyfriend's company, and in order to get $100,000 to what was owed to them, they had to settal suit with him. you have woman after woman who said -- >> you're arguing he was confessing? >> all he's doing is encouraging journalists to go and talk to some of these women who say he did resprecisely that. >> which they would do that any way. that's what this campaign has denigrated into.

it's how low can we go to dig up trash on each of these candidates. that's why this process has grown to be so disgusting to so many americans. which is why -- it doesn't matter at this point. turnout is shot in this game at this point. people are looking at this and shaking their head in disgust. tonight was a prime example of it. >> there was a charge that obamacare was broken. there was a concession by secretary clinton that is it. your keep your doctor, keep your plan, not only didn't they keep their doctor -- >> she didn't say it failed, it needed tinkering. >> not tinkering, but an overhaul. [ overlapping speakers ] >> i agree with michael. i found it a -- a series of snipes, of i gotcha you this, i gotcha on that. they were all familiar, familiar

shots. >> i tweeted that this was the most viewed staging of who is afraid of virginia wolf ever. [ overlapping speakers ] >> the trouble with referencing that, all these shots were familiar with each other. i've been through these campaigns. i remember a campaign in utah, every time he went to a debate, it was the same thing. this was like the 50th debate -- >> do you remember a debate, there was a debate like this that happened in the primary where marco rubio and ted cruz, they were talking about the manhood and other things. this is a little bit of the roommate problem. if you keep having bad roommates, maybe you're the bad roommate. there's a consistency in these debates that have been so awful. it's donald trump's presence. that is the thing. the man has this dark magnetism

which he pulls things to the darkest place. it wasn't an accident that those gop debates were in the gutter the whole time. [ overlapping speakers ] >> she was the secretary of state when the red line was drawn. aleppo is burning. libya is occupied by isis. he made reference to that. so the world is dark. >> aleppo is burning. aleppo is a humanitarian disaster. there were two policies that were in direct opposition. mike pence saying bomb them, donald trump saying align with assad and russia. is that the gop position? >> no, it is not. party leaders are paul ryan and mike pence -- >> we're going to come back. i want to get back to the drama tonight and how it ends the

weekend. let's get back to the personal qualities of these two candidates. policy is not my thing at midnight. >> we have seen him insult women. we've seen him rate women on their appearance, ranking them from 1 to 10. we've seen him embarrass women on tv and on twitter. we saw him after the first debate spend nearly a week denigrating a former miss universe in the harshest, most personal terms. t! red 97! diyou say 97? yes. you know, that reminds me of geico's 97% customer satisfaction rating. 97%? helped by geico's fast and friendly claims service. huh... oh yeah, baby. geico's as fast and friendly ait gets.

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so radical islamic terrorists, and she won't even mention the word. nor will president obama. he won't use the term "radical islamic terrorism." now, to solve a problem, you have to be able to state what the problem is, or at least say the name.

>> we're back from washington university in st. louis, the site of the second presidential debate. i'm here with my pam. -- my panel. tonight, we also heard trump disagree with mike pence over the situation in syria. here's that moment in the debate. >> mr. trump, let me repeat the question. if you were president, what would you do about syria and the humanitarian crisis in aleppo, and i want to remind you what your running mate said. he said provocations by russia need to be met with american strength and if russia continues to be involved in air strikes along with the syrian government forces of assad, the united states of america should be prepared to use military force to strike the military targets of the assad regime. >> he and i haven't spoken and i disagree. >> you disagree with your running mate?

>> we have to knock out isis. >> what do you make of that, michael? >> very simply, that was donald trump's way of saying, thank you for the way you defended me in the last debate, in your debate. that was more of a personal snipe. it was just to show, you know what? i'm still in charge here. and in the final analysis, when i say what i say, it's going to matter more than what you say. that was just pure bravado. >> i think this debate confirmed the worst fears about each side's strongest supporters about their opponent. so that if you are a trump supporter, everything you fear about hillary clinton, she did not answer any charge about the e-mails, about any of the things that he brought up, especially the two-cased comment. what is did you make of the acid destruction -- >> it's true. she used bleach bit. not she, but her team orchestrated it after the subpoena arrived. >> david kendall? >> i don't know if it's david

kendall, but her team. but bleach bit was used. i think that confirms for donald trump's base and a lot of americans their worst fears about her. on the other hand, his comments on the videotape, tom cotton, senator cotton began the day by saying he has to throw himself on the mercy of the american people. he did not do that. so people have been saying the line to the exit is going to grow shorter tomorrow. i don't think. so i think people will digest this and say mike pence could win this election, because she's such a terrible candidate. >> what good is thinking that if it's irrelevant? how does mike pence become the nominee? >> if donald trump sees his brand going up in smoke, he would exit. >> anybody believe that? >> after tonight, enough people who are trump supporters said he did all right and that will keep him in the race. if you are one of these republicans who jumped off of the trump train, tonight you

were even more depressed, because essentially donald trump gave him a lifeline. you're stuck with him now. and now the trump supporters are coming for them. >> the other thing is, we talked in the commercial -- >> this campaign goes to the bitter end. >> i would call it a breitbart debate, breitbart, steve bannon, the ceo of the campaign. i mean, starting with the clinton women, bringing them in and all that stuff. >> ever hear of the ceo of a campaign before? that's a new one for me. >> you have this amazing snapshot from paul ryan's district and he gets up there. the great thing about fall fest,

we talk about conservative values. "you're a traitor." you can say, i don't like what he said or what he said was despicable. but down ballot, that's -- the base is still with donald trump. >> that's also a tea party world, too. i thought most members of congress, jot john boehner or paul ryan. the real boss is the drunk in the last row of the last town meeting. >> and the boss is with trump. and now they have to explain why they walked away from donald trump when his base is going to be even more hopped up, because they got all their breitbart erogenous zones -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> robert redford is the solo sailor who keeps bailing him

out. eventually the ship sinks. i do believe he won the debate tonight. i believe his supporters are very psyched about it. but i believe tomorrow could bring a story that would shatter everything beyond repair. >> why is everyone talking about this thing floating out there? [ overlapping speakers ] >> again, i get back to the point, this is where we've come to in this campaign. we're sitting in anticipation of someone dropping some dirt on hillary and dropping dirt on trump. that's going to be the next 30 days of this campaign. that's why the turnout could wind up being depressed ultimately. >> you believe that the "access hollywood" had some hand in it. anybody that put it out knew it was going to hurt trump. so do you think the campaign was involved? >> i found the timing to be amusing, particularly you had both things happen at the same time.

>> let's go to meg whitman getting hit with the housekeeper, bush's dui. you don't drop your best stuff 30 days out, you do it four days out. so there has to be other -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> by the way, trump world is itching to do even more. they have gotten a taste of going into the deepest gutters, and the guttural fantasies of the farthest right. they're going to be more. [ overlapping speakers ] [ all talking ] >> he is a candidate for president of the united states -- >> you know what the difference is?

the difference is donald trump engages more directly. hillary clinton's team engages -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> when we return, republicans will meet in washington tomorrow to talk about the campaign going forward. they see anything from trump tonight that might -- well, any way, our coverage of the second presidential debate will continue right after this. [alarm beeping] ♪ ♪ ♪ the hily advanced audi a4. ♪

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you know, children listen to what is being said, to go back to the very, very first question. and there's a lot of fear. in fact, teachers and parents are calling it the trump effect. bullying is up. a lot of people are feeling, you know, uneasy. a lot of kids are expressing their concerns. >> we're back with our live coverage from st. louis and the presidential debate here. this evening joining us panel is the great, the great robert costa. and also ben ginsburg, he's also great. you know, if mommy is not going to pay attention to you, i'm not. just kidding.

what do you make of -- where is that guy sh >> he left. tell me about the republican party. what are you hearing coming around the next several hours? what is this meeting tomorrow? >> well, the meeting tomorrow is to basically assess where the campaign is, and where republicans are, and how they feel about donald trump and whether it makes sense to sort of do a mass exodus or stick with him. i think after tonight, the impetus is probably to stick with him. >> yeah. is that good? >> i'll tell you in a month. >> ben, just so everybody benefits from your expertise, the talk of dumping trump, is that imaginable, is there any way to dump a guy that doesn't want to be dumped? if a candidate refuses to go, can he be removed? >> there is nothing in the rules

that would allow that, number one. and number two, there is no will amongst the members of the republican national committee who basically threw themselves lock, stock, and barrel behind the donald trump campaign. >> i remember when this came up before, in 1972, and george mcgovern had to let eagleson go because of the electro shock therapy getting out. he knew when he did it, it was over. if you have to give up your vice president, it's over. once you dump a vp, everybody agree? that there's no victory. i want to ask you a tough, profound question. i think i know the answer, from you. is there any chance donald trump, any reasonable, plausible chance he can win the presidency in this election? >> no. >> no. >> not right now, no. >> what could change now? >> something about hillary clinton or hillary clinton's

performance. >> and he would be the better of the two? [ overlapping speakers ] >> so the meeting tomorrow is not going to change things. let me ask you about the republican party. after this is over, and we assume there will be an over point, will it be the trump party when it's over or go back to the party of paul ryan? >> it's going to be the party of paul ryan. it still is the party of paul ryan and mitch mcconnell. tonight, when she talked about the shopping cart supreme court, she said i want a judge who is going to reverse -- >> a litmus test. >> litmus test after litmus test. not a mention of the constitution. that will rally conservatives. that will keep the senate -- >> if you take a judicial nominee for the high court, who has been picked on that basis by hillary clinton, this, this,

this, this, would that person have a especially difficult time getting confirmed? >> yes. it would give a tremendous amount of fodder to conservatives and republicans, and, and it would take the democrats doing the nuclear option to get it back to 50. >> do you have a story for us? >> i have a little reporting to share with you. saw the trump campaign leaving tonight. they're all sitting there, and i overheard some conversation, ran into some sources. i said what do you think about this meeting tomorrow, this conference call with paul ryan, the house speaker. the mood within the trump campaign, they don't care. this is a campaign, the standard bearer for the republican party, they don't care if the party deserts them. it's totally insider versus outsider. they believe tonight that trump's performance rallies the base, and one of the top people told me, you're either with us or against us. we're going to be in the white house.

we're keeping track of names. >> is pence aboard right now, is he firmly aboard? >> there's a lot of conflicting reporting. you see pence, according to newjersey.com is cancelling a fund-raiser. >> suspect that a conflict with north carolina, he has another event? >> that's true. the people around pence, especially the people from indiana, who have been around him for a long time, they're nervous, worried about his political future. but pence seems to be with trump. >> mike pence remained off the radar most of today, but here's what he tweeted last tonight. congrats to my running mate, donald trump, on a big debate win. proud to stand with you as we make america great again. is that back aboard or pro-forma? >> that's solidarity. >> he's back aboard. the only way you can be in the trump campaign, which is to march behind the leader and do what he says --

>> where is that not the case? where are you allowed to be loosey-goosey about the nominee for president? >> as much as the clintons are a target of the breitbart right, their even bigger enemy is paul ryan. the breitbart's hatred for paul ryan is nearly as much as the clintons. those trump supporters aren't going anywhere, and i think he will lose. they're still going to be there, and they're still going to dictate what the party does the way the tea party did. this party is is not going to be rid of trumpism any time soon. >> wishful thinking? >> probably not reality. look, if donald trump goes down to defeat, there will be people who will be against paul ryan and the establishment. but what will happen is there will be a year-long circular firing squad amongst

republicans. and at the end of that, the people who are still in congress and the statehouses are going to be the ones that drive the 2018 campaign. there will be governor's races in many a state with hillary clinton in the white house historically. you would say republicans will do quite, quite well. and so you've got the people in elected office that will end up driving the republican party once we're two years out. >> who is going to force democrats to get amnesia about all these republicans, the marco rubios of the world who marched behind an extreme candidate like donald trump? that will never be forgotten. people who were willing to burn down the republican party and maybe the country for donald trump, it won't be forgotten. >> i've got to tell you something, the 1976 democratic party went far away from mcgovern and nobody got hurt, they went with carter and won. parties recover incredibly fast

from mistakes. ben ginsburg, thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> real calm. i don't understand how you can be so calm. hugh hewitt, an interesting man. our coverage continues right after this. >> are you saying what you said on that bus 11 years ago, you did not kiss women without consent or grope women without concept? >> nobody has more respect for women than i do. >> so for the record, you're saying you never did that? >> i did things -- you hear these things are said. i was embarrassed by it. but i have tremendous respect for them. and i will tell you, no, i have not. and i will tell you, i'm going to make our county tsafe, we're going to have borders for our country, we we don't have now. guess what guys, i switched tsprint.

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people like donald who paid zero in taxes, zero for our vets, zero for health and education, that is wrong. and we're going to make sure that nobody, no corporation, and no individual, can get away without paying his fair share -- >> thank you. i want to give you -- >> welcome back to msnbc's live coverage of the second presidential debate, which is now over. two down, one to go. we're back with joy reid, robert costa, who is brewing a big scoop, and howard fine mman, wh has his ready to deliver former rnc chair -- i'm sorry, what? >> nothing, go ahead. >> howard, what do you got? >> mike pence, first of all, he's not going anywhere. i talked to one of his top

people about ten minutes ago just before i came on. he's sticking with the program. that's number one. he said -- what i'm told is there are people in the governor's office in indiana who would have liked maybe before the debate, but in any case, have been saying, gee, mike, we wish you would get away from this guy. mike pence is not going to do it. both because he made a deal. he's sticking with it. also because of 2020, if trump loses, it's a platform for him. so he's not going to quit. that's not going to happen. number two, i'm told that pence and trump have talked about syria, and when trump said on the air tonight, well, we never talked about it, that's not true. and it's not surprising that it's not true. but the pence people per joy are not going to complain about it. they're going to stay quiet about it and say sure, whatever donald says is fine with us. so i think "the indianapolis

star" story is wrong. i don't think that pence is going anywhere. >> there's an idealogical thing to this, because trump is basically, we're not getting involved in the rest of the world, and pence is a traditional conservative who sees russia as the enemy. >> trump was not happy that pence took the shot that he took the other day about the sexual stuff. one reason is, in addition to mike pence's conservatism and traditionalism is the fact that he was traveling on the campaign trail for recent days, either with his wife -- he travels with his wife or daughter. just the other day, he was there with his 23-year-old daughter, and the wife, look at mike pence and say, in essence, what are you going to say about donald trump and mike pence said it. he unloaded and trump didn't like it. but that's something trump is going to have to take and something trump will have to

tolerate after solidifying his base tonight. he solidified his base just enough to ensure that he remains an albatros around the neck of the republican party. >> trump said as president, he would hire a prosecutor to investigate hillary clinton saying she should be in jail. watch it here. >> if i win, i am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation, because there's never been so many lies, so much deception. there's never been anything like it. and we're going to have a special prosecutor. when i speak, i go out and speak. the people of this country are furious. in my opinion, the people that have been long-term workers at the fbi are furious. there has never been anything like this, where e-mails -- and you get a subpoena, you get a

subpoena and after getting the subpoena, you delete 33,000 e-mails. >> you know, it's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> because you'd be in jail. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> wow! any way, ari fleischer tweeted on that, winning candidates don't threaten to put opponents in jail. presidents don't threaten prosecution of individuals. trump is wrong on this. there is an element of this whole thing, and i'm not conclusive -- i guess i'm getting conclusive about this race, but i don't want to be. this is the third world aspect to this campaign. when you say, if i lose, it was rigged. in africa, you hear these guys that are in office forever. sometimes it is rigged. but they're not rigged here.

and if i get my opponent and i beat her, then i'm going to hang her. this is what they did in pakistan. this is third world stuff. it's trump talking and nobody else talks like this. >> it's mabutu back from the dead, who my father lived under. not only did they do that in the congo, they also do it in ukraine. somebody tweeted, i can't remember who did it, pointed out that paul manafort's former clients in ukraine also had this policy when an election was lost. jailing the opposition and using sort of the tactic of saying that the election they didn't win was rigged. so it is -- >> i'm seeing some counterevidence of high s.a.t. scores out here. people jumping around out here, trying ing ting to demonstrates

of intelligence. go to bed. you start acting like that, go to bed. it's time. >> can i just point out that donald trump said he wanted -- if he won, he wanted to have a special prosecutor look into the hillary clinton thing. but he's home run said she should be in jail. so he would appoint a prosecutor and put her in jail, which is also very ukraine-like. >> any way, it is a little crazy. joy, robert, thank you. they're all sticking with us. this is a special late night edition of "hardball," live from washington university in st. louis. >> $960 million loss --

>> of course i do. and so do all of her donors or most of her donors. number one, i pay tremendous numbers of taxes. i absolutely used it. so did warren buffett, so did george soros and many of the other people that hillary is getting money from. the time is long overdue... pharmaceutical industry. need... outrageous profits. important step forward. payers of california - america. passes - ballot.

look at this, this is a beautiful campus and a great university. i believe a member of the

fineman family graduated from here. quickly, what does it mean tonight? >> the piece i wrote, the headline of it was, hillary survives crudest debate ever. donald trump lands a punch or two, but hillary kept her cool and in the end, won the debate, even though trump -- >> does she win the election tonight? >> i think she's on the road to doing that in any case. he gets his core. enough to remain an albatros around the neck of the republican party. >> for me, he stopped the hemorrhaging from inside the party, which was critical. it gets him back up on his feet. the question still remains whether or not he's going to be punch drunk enough from the hits he's already gotten from members inside the party. >> hillary clinton was already winning the debate. she had to show up, be presidential. donald trump is the person that needed to have a knockout. all he did was get enough rope

to hang the gop. >> i thought he did enough to survive. robert has the scoop from "the washington post." >> amazing scoop. so tonight, intense drama backstage minutes before the presidential debate. trump's campaign had the four women they had the press conference with ready backstage to sit in the family box, to be looming over the stage where you had the children sitting tonight. the co-chairman of the debate nixed this. he said to rudd eye giuliani and steve bannon, this isn't happening. then giuliani and bannon was saying, this is happening. now the trump campaign is telling the washington post tonight, we want him gone. this is going to make us reconsider even the las vegas debate. up until minutes before, they had the women ready backstage to go right up to president clinton, as they walked out to

confront president clinton, face-to-face, on national television. rudy giuliani told me on the record tonight they were ready to have a national fight on television broadcast. but they decide at the end to not have some huge scene. all published on thewashingtonpost.com right now. >> there may not be a final debate? >> i think the trump campaign is furious with the commissioner. they had a gambit. >> on the other hand, trump did well tonight that trump probably wants a third debate now, i would think. >> because he's a little hot. i want to thank everybody for being great. i did give the commencement address out here in 1910 -- >> 1910? [ laughter ] >> sit a beautiful campus and sit the campus of the future.

this is going to be a bigger school. thank you, joy reid. it's a growth industry out here. michael, howard. that does it for us, and our live coverage from st. louis. i'll be right back tomorrow at 7:00 eastern on "hardball." if you missed the debate, stick around. you can watch the second presidential debate tonight a second time right after this. [alarm clock beeping]

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>> it. this is the first town hall style of this political season. mr. trump has the lekturn and high stool on the left. secretary clinton on the right. we believe there's a small height despairty to allow. >> it's worth reiterating. one of the unknowns is that we don't know if the candidates