alongside betty nguyen and louis burgdorf. "morning joe" starts right now. >> just start kissing them. it's like a magnet. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. >> i'm out. i can no longer in good conscience endorse this person for president. conscience endorse this person for president. >> i respectfully ask you with all due respect to step aside. step down. allow someone else to carry the banner of these principles. >> i believe our only option is to formally ask mr. trump to step down. >> anyone that knows me knows these words don't reflect who i am. i said it. i was wrong. and i apologize. >> let me just start off by saying there is a bit of an elephant in the room. and it is a troubling situation. >> i've said some foolish things, but there's a big difference between the words and actions of other people. bill clinton has actually abused women and hillary has bullied,

attacked, amed and intimidated his victims. >> the things she has said and have been reported in various books and magazines and other places about the women that bill clinton raped, sexually abused and attacked. not bill clinton's role but her role as the attacker. >> these four very courageous women have asked to be here. >> i'm here to support donald trump. mr. trump may have said some bad words but bill clinton raped me and hillary clinton threatened me. i don't think there's any comparison. >> this was locker room talk. i'm not proud of it. i apologized to my family and to the american people. certainly i'm not proud of it but this is locker room talk. i have great respect for him. nobody has more respect for women than i do. >> he has said that the video doesn't represent who he is, but i think it's clear to anyone

that heard it that it represents exactly who he is. >> if you look at bill clinton far worse. mine were words and his is it action. what he's done to women, there's never been anyone in the history of politics in this nation that's been so abusive to women. when hillary brings up words that i said 11 years ago, i think it's disgraceful, and i think she should be ashamed of herself if you want to know the truth. >> what a weekend it's been. good morning. >> wow. >> it's monday, october 10th. >> what a weekend. >> welcome to "morning joe." what this morning's "the new york times" describes as an ugly moment in american politics, donald trump and hillary clinton squared off in what would be one of the most remarkable political showdowns in modern american history. last night's debate devolved into a pitched battle over 90 minutes framed by a decade old "access hollywood" tape and past allegations of rape, sexual abuse and systemic coverup of

bill clinton's alleged assaults against the very women who the former president found himself sitting uncomfortably close to last night. even before the town hall style debate, donald trump shocked the political world by calling a news conference with clinton's alleged victims and they each delivered statements. >> i am wendy. i'm here to support donald trump. mr. trump may have said some bad words but bill clinton raped me and hillary clinton threatened me. i don't think there's any comparison. >> i'm kathleen. i am here to support donald trump. >> i think they should all look at the fact that he's a good person. he's not what other people have been saying he's been. >> i'm here to support trump.

at 12 years old, hillary put me through something that you've never put a 12 year old through. she said she's for women and children. she was asked last year on what happened and she said she is supposed to defend. whether they did or not, she's laughing on tape. >> the debate began with the two candidates awkwardly refusing to shake hands. donald trump spent the next hour and a half fighting his way out of a political corner and looking like a man with very little left to lose. so, joe, we'll start off with you. what did you think? >> despite what you think of donald trump, what you think of hillary clinton, what you think of how this race has gone over the weekend and where you think it's going to end up, whether you think last night made any difference at all to the final outcome in november. i think there are a couple of things that people in theress may not want to admit. it was plainly evident watching

it on tv last night. number one, it was donald trump's most effective debate performance to date. there's not a close second. just not a close second. secondly, despite the fact she had an unprecedented cheering section in the media, the fact is for somebody watching and people will see this if they watch it again today or so parts of it a week from now or a month from now, hillary clinton was on the defensive most of the night. she seemed unsure of herself most of the night and he dominated the second debate in the same way she dominated the first debate. and third, and i think most importantly for this political season, donald trump, who has made the republican party members lives living and breathing hells for the past year and a half, last night turned it up to 11. all of those people that jumped

ship about halfway through the debate were looking at their tv saying oh shoot. because -- i know everybody in the press hates donald trump. i'm giving you reality if you don't like it. he's horrible. >> horrible. >> i heard it last night. i saw it on twitter. i understand. you believe he's an evil man. i'm just giving you the political reality and this is the political reality. for the republican base, donald trump delivered the attack against the clinton machine that the republican base and middle america have been waiting for for years now. and so good luck being in pensacola, florida, sayi ining off of donald trump or saying in kansas i'm not for donald trump anymore especially when no republican in america should have been surprised by what they

heard on friday. >> no republican in america could have done what he did last night. they just -- my god. it was epic. it was vintage trump. he produced a day-long show that rocked the political world. take a look at some of the moments. >> with his back against the wall. >> if i win, i am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there has never been so many lies, so much deception. there has never been anything like this where e-mails and you get a subpoena. you get a seen and after getting the subpoena you delete 33,000 e-mails. so we're going to get a special prosecutor and we're going to look into it. you know what? people have been -- their lives have been destroyed for doing one-fifth of what you've done and it's a disgrace and

honestly, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. >> everything he just said is absolutely false. i'm not surprised. it's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> because you would be in jail. >> secretary clinton -- [ applause ] >> now she got caught in a total lie. her papers went out to all her friends at the banks, goldman sachs and everybody else. she said things wikileaks that she just came out and she lied. now she's blaming the lie on the late great abraham lincoln. that's one that i haven't heard. okay. honest abe never lied. that's the good thing. that's the big difference between abraham lincoln and you. that's a big, big difference we're talking about some difference. she complains that donald trump took advantage of the tax code. why didn't she change it? why didn't you change it when you were a senator? i heard hillary complaining

about so many different things over the years. she's been doing this stuff for 30 years. she never changed and she never will change. >> even the moderators were not spared from trump's attacks. >> i would like to know, anderson, why aren't you bringing up the e-mails? why aren't you? >> you brought the e-mails. >> it hasn't. it hasn't been finished at all. >> one on three. >> we're going to move onto syria. both of you have mentioned -- >> she said a lot of things -- i think we should be allowed to maybe -- >> we're going to go on. this is about the audience. >> disaster as a senator. >> mr. trump, we're going to move on. >> i was against the war in iraq. it's not been debunked. you voted for it, and you shouldn't have it. >> lots of fact checking on that. i would like to move to an online question. >> she went 25 seconds over her time. could i just respond to this, please? >> very quickly, please. >> she went a minute over and you don't stop her. when i go one second over -- >> you had many answers.

>> it's really interesting. hillary clinton wants to allow -- >> why did it morph into that? answer the question. do you still believe -- >> why don't you interrupt her? >> would you please explain whether or not the muslim ban still stands. >> it's called extreme vetting. >> with us we have former communications director for president george w. bush, nicole wallace, who has been up all night. you be careful now, nicole. and chair of the african-american studies and managing editor of bloomberg politics co-host of "with all due respect" mike halperin joins willie, joe and me. >> what is your takeaway? >> mind-blowing. unlike anything i have ever seen. donald trump had nothing to lose. he stripped away any pretense of

being a politician or civility and said i'm throwing everything at her. i texted this to nicole last night. i said this performance by trump tonight is a fantasy come true for people who haven't liked hillary clinton for 25, 30 years. and bill clinton. he got to stand on a stage and say all of the things they've been saying and e-mailing to each other that you know very well for a generation. now, i don't think that wins him any new voters. i think it talks to the people who already loved him and were cheering him on. i saw it on twitter. i was getting texts. the campaign was thrilled with his performance. i don't think he won any votes. >> what is the net effect of that? it stops the bleeding. a lot of people that jumped ship this weekend are having to answer phone calls all day today from the republican base telling them that they are weasels and need to get back on board. >> talk he wasn't going to show up and get out of the race as many people asked him to do. he's now stabilized and where he

was which is losing the race. this doesn't help him win and become president but he's not going anywhere. >> the man with nothing to lose is what i tweeted yesterday afternoon. it's what willie was talking about. >> and the woman without any sleep. >> we already learned that off camera this morning. you're reaction to the debate? most important, what does it mean moving forward? >> in disclosure we were talking throughout the whole thing. we saw it in realtime very differently. i think i was incapable of shaking -- i don't think i can process trump in an event setting. it's never just the event. he gives a speech. we go on and we analyze the speech. but then by 8:00 he said something more outrageous to undermine it or contradict it by 8:00 and by 3:00 in the morning he's done something else. in isolation, the 90 minutes did represent the net effect of kellyanne conway and chris christie and rudy giuliani impressing upon him the need to

prep. i think what you saw was someone that had done real prep. not at a podium per se but someone playing hillary clinton and someone playing a moderator and preparing to answer questions for 90 minutes. kneel like they had to teach him out to pivot after the first debate, and i think that was largely successful. he went in there way behind, and i think he's still behind in this race. the kinds of people he needed to win over were the ones repulsed about grabbing the p word. i don't think people that are repulsed about him grabbing the p word were turned around back in his favor last night. >> i think again the net effect last night was it was triage. he was bleeding out. his campaign was coming to an end. everybody was talking about billy bush, mark halperin. everyone was talking about him getting out of the race. ain't nobody talking about billy bush this morning. last night everybody was talking. what are they going to do

subsection e of the republican rules allow donald trump -- that's not happening. so he's still in the race, and you're in indianapolis where mike pence has spent quite a bit of time and mike pence was a guy over the past couple days who disappeared. we got word that i'm just going to hang back for 48 hours. >> there's a word for it. >> you take care of this. he put out a tweet early on attacking donald trump saying he was offended. they then leaked to the press they were shocked, flabbergasted, horrified. again, i'm going to quote here. who could have been shocked by what you saw on fridays? >> i was shocked. >> i'm saying republicans that are saying i thought he was an upright moral preacher. please, just stop. i think mike pence is the perfect weather vain in middle

america. he let the press know how deeply offended he was and the statement the debate was over, put up the tweet. yea! you win. >> wonder how many republicans do that, too, mark? >> he accomplished three things given the state of the campaign not only after the tape on friday but leading up to that are significant. one is he's energized the republican base. there's no doubt that he said a string of things last night to her face that will get a lot of people energized. as willie said that's not majority. he needs to get that base back. two, he has his running mate apparently back on board. i came here from st. louis to go to north carolina today with mike pence. having pence back on the trail was hanging in the balance. key thing to have accomplished. inside their campaign, confident, energized, excited. that's not the case over the

weekend. he had the best debate performance. he showed a lot he didn't have in the first debate. here's what he's not accomplished. hanging in the balances will people today come out against him the way they did over the weekend? i think that's still possible including some big names. two, how does he find an electoral college path. he didn't have it before friday and he doesn't right now. if he can consolidate republicans he can be plausible and hoping about revelations about hillary clinton or a third strong debate performance. >> nobody suggests at this table that he somehow tightened the race. what he's done is he's saved his campaign to fight another day. what was your overall take away of everything? >> i think it's possible he doesn't win. i will say that a couple things happen that i'm trying to get through here. the media overreached. republicans completely overreached. i just don't understand why any of the people who were

denouncing donald trump that were pulling their support, are shocked now? those statements are horrible. there are many more available to you. >> what do you mean? he said -- hold on. this is a sane man who told howard stern he wanted to have sex with a dead princess because he liked her skin. are you really shocked? come on. who could be shocked? >> my point last night was -- i don't like to talk about people in their absence. he was never trump and really for trump and pulled his support over the weekend. i asked him the same question you guys are posing. i think that people that were never for him aren't shocked because this was the character of the man that they could never get behind. and then people that were always for him, either didn't know -- >> they knew. >> that's pathetic. >> don't yell at me.

>> all of this information is out there. it's baked in the cake. really. do a little google. do a little google. this guy says a lot of things like that. he gets people to laugh. they're disgusting. >> i never heard him say something like that. >> were you asleep during his new hampshire rally? >> i must have been asleep. >> if i could finish what i'm saying because you do need to actually google him and so do key republicans who endorsed him and then pulled endorsements last night like you were shocked and appalled. this is what put you over the edge? you're pathetic. you're weak and spineless. and now you have to come back potentially. to be shocked to think this is the first thing he said. please. >> i hate to again -- >> media get off your high horse, republicans get off your high horse, clinton campaign, please, god, get off your high horse. okay. >> if i were the clinton campaign, i would bite my

tongue -- >> they cancel each other again. >> any time the topic comes up. >> i was horrified at how penetrating his attacks were. he teed up the whole day to go there and he went there. it was savage. >> i hate once again to bring up paul krugman but he tweeted it out yesterday. he's absolutely right. republicans acted shocked on friday. and they acted shocked because he was behind. if he were ten points ahead, they would have said the same thing. you know, my wives and daughters are upset but they know donald trump is going to -- we've been through this for a year and a half. they pick friday when he's down in the polls to be shocked. >> civilizations aren't ended by wicked people, they're actually ended by the spineless. >> that's what we see happening here. >> i want to make two distinctions. one distinction is about the politics. everything you said.

last night i was horrified because i saw the slow death of democracy by 1,000 cuts of the stupid and the vile. there's one thing to talk about politics itself. when we talk about the state of our country and the state of american politics, donald trump represents the bottom. the bottom. >> really? >> to me in a sense that -- >> he's the only one? >> no. i'm saying he is the exaggerated indication of what the state of american politics actually is. >> you sound like republicans talking about bill clinton in 1992. >> i was confused actually who you were talking abt. mark halperin. >> if there's no difference between what donald trump was revealed to say on friday in past statements, why did mielana put out a statement denouncing it? >> it was a massive reaction and a hot mike so it was new. if you look at any of his interviews with shock jock howard stern or anything that he said on "the apprentice" --

>> none of them involved bragging about violence. none of them do. >> some involve bragging about his daughter. some involve bragging about being -- i don't want to compete with you about how much i know about horrific, gross statements that donald trump has said, but i have to tell you for everyone to be so shocked and yet hillary clinton and bill clinton for some reason get a pass on these things, which, look, i want hillary to win. i don't want to have this conversation at all. people have to come down to earth. >> the fact is they have had a past from polite society. they've had a pass from polite society for decades. they have. and -- >> actions on record. i'm not talking about women that showed up last night. i'm talking about actions that are on record in the oval office. >> i guess the question is, for these republicans that scurried away and now may be forced to

come back, if donald trump were up by ten points, would they have ran away on friday? i think that's the point we're making. they're such hypocrites. they scurry away when he's behind. donald trump said he's sorry. >> i had the same conversations and interviews on tv that nicole had with people that flipped. i said where were you last december when he called for a ban on all muslims entering the united states of america? that didn't offend you? that's a question to these people of you didn't know all of this was coming. you didn't know this was there. what i think is different, the distinction is what he's talking about on that tape is physically grabbing a woman and using his star power to go at somebody, to kiss them if they don't want to be kissed or grab them. talking about what donald trump said on the tape. that's the distinction people make. you're physically going at a woman and assaulting a woman. that's different than being creepy and talking about if a

girl is a ten or an eight or a four. whatever she is. >> go back to the muslim ban. go back to what he said about mexicans. denial of knowing who david duke was. i can say -- it's all in transcript, i said two months before the first republican vote was cast that i couldn't vote for him because of the muslim ban. these guys have stayed with him and continued to stay with him and they're fine with banning over 1 million muslims from coming into the united states. they're fine with all of these other things he says and then on friday they get an "access hollywood" tape and suddenly they're moralistic about it. their chance to be moralistic passed a long, long time ago. >> i remember speaking to paul ryan and other republican leaders going, guys, this isn't going to end well for you. where's your spine? to the point where you said stop. you need to stop saying this again and again and again.

where was it? did they really think this was going to get better? did they really think -- >> mika, you said it a thousand times. >> do a google. >> you all read that. >> this guy has been there. >> you have republicans -- some republicans who are trying to claim the moral high ground. which they can't do. and then irony of course is you have certain evangelical leaders saying he doesn't share values, we're still supporting him. so you have this really interesting kind of confusion about what constitutes the kind of human being we require in the oval office. >> the problem is last night people were looking at two human beings that they didn't want in the oval office. >> it's unbelievable. >> so key reactions after the debate on twitter. erick erickson, i may not care for trump but he beat hillary

tonight. and brett hume, he lives to fight another day. lewd tape begins to fade. again, these are all people that are not fans of donald trump. john avlon, threatens and admits zero taxes. hillary doesn't put him away. franc luntz. and chuck todd, bottom line of the entire conversation for those at home trying to keep score with what exactly is going on here. trump made life more miserable for swing state goppers who want to bolt on him. his base is going to love this performance tonight. did he gain another vote he didn't have before the debate? i don't think so. is he going to go up in polls? i don't know. maybe, maybe not. but the thing we do know is he's

made republicans lives more miserable across america, and he has absolutely no problem, mika, deare are war on the republican party. in fact, i think he likes it. >> i think hillary should play the woman card. i propped up men like you all my life. let's move over. let's get a woman in there. >> james baldwin said that. >> later this morning, kellyanne conway joins us and so does joel bennison. more people were looking up lepo than aleppo. >> i did not know that gary johnson had -- >> we'll see how that makes richard haas feel. first bill karins after hurricane matthew laid waste to much of the southeast over the weekend. >> unfortunately the damage isn't done yet. we're watching major rivers in

eastern north carolina going to hit record crests throughout this week. millions of dollars of additional damage will be done. there's some pictures from the outer banks as the back side of the storm really caused significant damage. worse than was expected there in eastern north carolina and outer banks. it's the river flooding that caused all of the heartache as we went through areas of eastern north carolina. this is the fayetteville area. town of princeton evacuated yesterday. they think a dam is going to collapse at any time. overall we have 19 storm related fatalities. have in eastern north carolina related to rainfall and river flooding and death toll in haiti is nearing 900. over 2 million people without power. estimated insurance losses up to $6 billion. beautiful weather in the southeast for another full day of cleanup and that will continue tomorrow. nicole is going to become a hurricane in the days ahead and that could threaten bermuda but will spare us on the east coast. new york city, chilly start. beautiful finish. we'll be right back.

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>> i want to emphasize that what is at stake here is the ambitions and the aggressiveness

of russia. russia has decided that it's all in in syria, and they've also decided who they want to see become president of the united states, too, and it's not me. >> i don't know putin. i think it would be great if we get along with russia because we could fight isis together as an example. i don't know putin. i notice any time anything wrong happens, they like to say russians -- she doesn't know if it's the russians doing the hacking. maybe there is no hacking. he always blame russia. they think they're trying to tu tarnish me about russia. i don't deal there. i have no business there es the. i don't have loans in russia. >> russia is killing isis. iran is killing isis. and those three have now lined up because of our weak foreign policy. >> i want to remind you what

your running mate said. he said provocations by russia need to be met with american strength and that if russia continues to be involved in air strikes along with the syrian government forces of assad, the united states of america should be prepared to use military force to strike the military targets of the assad regime. >> okay. he and i haven't spoken. i disagree. i disagree. >> you disagree with your running mate? >> so memo to future vice presidential candidates, if you decide to bail for a 48-hour time period on your running mate, it's just not going to end well for you. let's bring in richard haas. when you were coming on you said it was remarkable that hillary clinton had a strategy. there was so many charges that she did not answer last night. so many things she did not respond to. was that tactical?

what was behind that? >> my take on it was she played it safe during the debate. they came in ahead in the polls. a team ahead in the fourth quarter. you don't want to lose it. rather than going to win it, you play not to lose. that's what i thought it was. a safe debate performance. trump demeanominated the debate. they are probably still ahead in the election. >> mark halperin, it makes good sense? donald trump had to save his political life last night. he did it in a way that probably didn't expand his base whatsoever. probably stopped the bleeding. allowed him to fight to another day. people critical of hillary clinton's performance. why shouldn't she have just played it safe if she's five, six, seven points ahead in the polls. it makes sense, right? >> on some level if you have a lead, you don't want to do anything that's combustible. part of why trump had a solid or good night is because she's not

very good at explaining her positions. she's a good debater technically and to be prepared but there are no magic moments for her last night. most of the volatile moments played better for trump. she's got a lead. they are very comfortable with where they are in battleground states. why not stay comfortable with that knowing they're not going for 500 electoral votes. they're going for 271. >> let me ask you about those rumors swirling last night but over the last couple days that mike pence was reconsidering his place on the ticket? any truth to that? was he thinking about getting off the ticket? >> i think he was in a holding pattern. i think that he was like many republicans genuinely baffled, stunned and upset by the tape that came out. i think he felt donald trump needed to do just what he said in his public statement. he needed to explain himself in the debate. trump last night laid down a daring marker and said he's

never forced himself on a woman either tried to kiss her or assault her. there's already some people on record saying that's not true. i think for now mike pence is out of the holding pattern headed to north carolina today to campaign. but there's no doubt that over the weekend he was besieged by people. he wasn't responding to them t besiegeded by people saying either you should be the nominee or get off the ticket. >> i found it unbelievable when he had those women in the audience and just went after her. i do think hillary clinton did what she had to do. she played it safe. she tried to stick to the issues. she laughed at his lies or misperceptions of the truth and facts about foreign policy. she did everything that she needed to do. it's just the problem is baked in the cake. is that a good way of putting it? >> the bigger problem is for the republican party right now. donald trump, i believe, has survived for now. we don't know what happens tomorrow. we don't know what happens the

next day. maybe there are more tapes that are coming out. if clintons want to release tapes, i suggest they probably hold off on it because that doesn't end well for them whatsoever. she could be elected president with a 3% approval rating and bill at 1% approval rating. at least for the time being, it seems to me that they seem to be -- clintons seem to be in shape electorally and donald trump has salvaged his campaign for now. >> that's bottom line after this whirlwind of a weekend. >> everyone said it was over. >> it's not over. >> he lives to fight another day. a lot of people are going to have to recalibrate what they were thinking. things are going terribly for him last night against the backdrop of the previous couple of days and then the pressure on him to leave might have been extraordinary. now it recedes to some extent. we are where we are. somewhat different but where we were before the weekend. >> willie, think about how crazy this weekend was. friday night was a political

equivalent of the o.j. simpson bronco chase. i think msnbc was on until 2:00 in the morning. they weren't running any canned heat. >> they don't do that anymore. >> those jail things. >> you don't watch locked up abroad? it's awesome. >> they go until 2:00 in the morning without showing any of that stuff. >> when there's news, we cover it. >> going until 2:00 in the morning and everybody was watching. my phone was exploding. it's 11:30 at night. i've been up since 4:00. stop. and then you follow that through saturday and it's just nonstop and then into the debate last night. >> everyone saying this is it. >> crazy weekend politically. >> it was crazy weekend. i was with my kids friday night not paying attention to my phone. i picked up my phone and it was

like an earthquake shattered my phone on many levels. assumption was this was an extinction event for donald trump. that's what it felt like for a lot of people. how was he going to handle it? go out with dignity. it's not over. >> he was cornered. don't corner somebody. give them a chance to get out. >> when i saw those tapes, i said here we go. now it's going to get really ugly. >> it did get really ugly. can i say one thing from foreign policy perspective? nobody answered the question about syria. that was put out there. questions like north korea never came up. this is the 10th anniversary today of north korea's first nuclear test. never came out. one other point on foreign policy, remember the whole expression the whole world is watching? >> they are all watching. if there was stock called reputation of the united states,

it suffered a serious correction if not a crash over the last couple days. >> it's donald trump against the establishment, the media and the establishment class and last night i will say he got a lot of followups deserved ones because he wouldn't answer legitimate foreign policy questions. he didn't have answers. it was very clear he would go off on weird random tantrums. hillary clinton was asked about wall street speeches and she didn't answer and there was no follow-up saying please answer the question. she went off and blamed it on russia and blamed it on the hacking. >> there's no follow-up. >> instead of content. >> there was absolutely no follow-up. which plays into donald trump's other line he has going here, which i think is extremely effective with his followers. that's the media's unfair. media is trying to bring him down. >> it was very clear once the tape hit on friday that this campaign was going to become more populist, more vicious, and

more destructive. i said it on friday it played itself out this weekend. the question is where does it end up? not only for the republican party but for this country. we have another month to go. >> i was saying to you before we came on the air, i think a year or so ago, almost in a joking way we said donald trump is the kind of guy -- this is last year, last summer, the kind of guy who might bring juanita broderick on stage. >> his staff didn't know that was going to happen. >> and i can't even -- the whole thing was -- >> she said donald trump used words. bill clinton -- >> thank you. >> thank you, richard. >> i have no idea what you just did. >> programming note, governor mike pence is going to join stephanie at 9:00 and this hour chuck todd is going to join us. yesterday he tweeted that today is going to be one of the most

consequential days in the history of the gop. he may be onto something. we'll talk about that when we return. i served in iraq in tikrit in 2009. whi mean a fewe anceresults came up that were really shocking. 11% of me comes from the part where i had served. we all come from such different backgrounds that you never know. it's what the national debt could do to our economy. if we don't solve our debt problem 19 trillion and growing money for programs like education will shrink.

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up next, will republicans who criticized donald trump change their tune after last night? ted cruz tweeted these comments are disturbing and inappropriate. there's no excuse for them. every wife, mother, daughter, every person deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. just two days earlier cruz was phone banking for the republican

party and by extension, donald trump. >> so confusing. >> chuck todd joins us when "morning joe" comes right back. have conquered highways, mountains, and racetracks. and now much of that same advanced technology is found in the audi a4. with one notable difference... ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with available traffic jam assist. ♪ at bp, we empower anyone to stop a job if somhing doesn't seem right, so everyone comes home safely. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. what powers the digital world? nevecommunication.ied. likeenturylink's broadband network that gives 35,000 fans a cutting edge game experience.

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it's 48 past the hour. joining us now, moderator of "meet the press," chuck todd, no sleep for you either all night long covering this. >> last night you were saying that this was donald trump's best debate performance, but at the same time we shouldn't expect cheers from the republican party because actually you say he's just made the gop's decision all that much harder. >> it's interesting last night. you get the feeling that paul ryan and mitch mcconnell and probably mike pence were all assuming or waiting for her to deliver a knockout. it was going to -- here it

comes. they just assumed it was coming. i think the clinton campaign just assumed they were waiting for trump to just implode on stage. well, neither happened. and now if you're paul ryan this morning, you are in this -- you've been in a vice for months. you're in a worst vice. boy, does the trump campaign feel good this morning. does the trump base feel like it's almost like they've got a taste of that red meat. this is everything -- this is -- a dream. dreaming about this moment since he got fired from the whitewater investigative committee. >> what about the republican base waiting for somebody for 20 years to deliver the argument against the clinton machine. >> so there's this excitement among this 35% to 40%. but then you still have the same issue that the republican party has been dealing with with trump

for the whole time which is how do you win a suburban swing voter in this? what did he do to improve his standing somehow that is going to make those republicans or independent or right leaning independents or whoever these swing voters are at this point come over and so now the republican party, let's take pat toomey. he can't win without trump's base and he can't win out the suburban philadelphia voters. he probably can't win them without totally denouncing trump and walking away from him. if you do that this morning, i think the sort of the right wing base is going to be how dare you? and almost come with pitch forks for toomey. angrier at him. that's the vice mcconnell and ryan are in. for the long run, they have to dump him but right now it's politically probably the worst idea. it's a total vice. >> why didn't they know they had to dump him when they endorsed

him? what is it that we learned about donald trump that's new today? >> everything has been confirmed. that's the thing. everything that was predicted if trump is nominee, the fear of what he could do came true on friday. >> you have people like john mccain -- i think to talk about folks that peeled off over the weekend and give them the benefit of the doubt that this was a tipping point, for john mccain he was called a cruddy p.o.w. and he stuck in there. you have to look at -- >> marco rubio -- >> i understand everything you're saying, mika. the notion that there can't be a tipping point and there can't be so much evidence of a lack of character for some of these men and women, i think just a couple women, is false. i mean, i think for some of them it was just more than they could take. >> no doubt. the question is the ones that were waiting that i think were going to say use the debate to say i was waiting to see if he

could show more contrition. i'm waiting to see. and so then what do they think this morning? he didn't show any contrition on that video. >> mark halperin, if you're a republican, that depends on your base, let's take senator burr. you don't bolt from donald trump this morning because he didn't show contrition unless you want to lose 50% of your republican base. burr can't win without having donald trump supporters voting for burr. >> or unless you think from your own sense of morality or your own sense of the long-term politics you want to play that you must. look, i think there's four things to watch for between now and friday. >> wait. i want to say, as far as morality, i say muslim ban. david duke. kkk. et cetera, et cetera. i'm sorry.

i don't want to hear from republican politicians, morality. >> sexual assault is a tipping point for some people. i have never said any of it was cool. for some people, people like senator john mccain, senator like rob portman and kelly ayotte and defections to come, gro groping a woman and bragging about it on a bus was a tipping point. >> are there more? trump may have had a better debate performance as trump said but there may be defections that could drive the news this week. second is what happens with the polls. third, what does a trump/pence message look like this week and more disclosures. everyone is talking about more disclosures. not just about trump but potentially hillary clinton. what happens if there's another disclosure for people as they make up their mind do they break from him or not.

i'm telling you, don't take your eye off paul ryan. paul ryan is still the key. >> to your point, sexual assault, bragging about it, bad. bragging about murder, bad. he could shoot someone on fifth avenue. still ahead, we'll speak live with kellyanne conway and clinton campaign chief strategist joel benenson. you're watching "morning joe." [ front assist sounds ] [ music stops ] [ girl laughs ] ♪ on the road again ♪ like a band of gypsies we go down the highway ♪ beetle horn honks ] no matter whic passat you choose, beetleyou get more] standard features, for less than you expected. hurrin and lease the 2017 passat s for just199 a month. ...stop clicking around...travel sites to fina bett price... the lowest prices on our hotels are always at hilton.com.

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hour, trump's virginia chairman said of that tape from 2005, "acted like a frat boy as a lot of guys do." >> willie and i were talking about this. we've been in locker rooms. i never heard that kind of talk from -- >> no. >> maybe seventh graders that are just learning the word for the first time. i've been in a lot of locker rooms. i never heard that. >> played sports every day of my life until i was about 22 years old. a lot of locker rooms. never heard that before. >> we'll talk about that. we'll play a lot of the debate last night. wow. >> are you doing okay? are you going to be steady for the second hour? >> i couldn't sleep i was so stressed out.ne credit card. hold on...yoonly got double miles on stuff you bought from that airline? let me show you somethg better. the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase... not just...(dismissively) airline purchases.

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>> he wants to start. go ahead. >> no. i'm a gentleman. >> i hate to interrupt you, at some point we need to do fact checking here. >> we have a divided nation because of people like her. she has tremendous hate in her heart. and when she said deplorables, she meant it. >> does mr. trump have the discipline to be a good leader? >> no. i'm shocked to hear that. >> he jumps right in. >> someone says you have tremendous hatred in your heart, respond. there are a thousand different things that she just didn't respond to. >> that's the sort of conundrum of debating donald trump. he throws so much out there and, boy, last night did he throw so much out there.

not even waiting until the debate to do that. so donald trump and hillary clinton squared off in what would be one of the most remarkable political showdowns in modern american history. last night's debate devolved into a pitch battle over 90 minutes framed by a decade old "access hollywood" tape and past allegations of rape, sexual abuse and systemic coverup of bill clinton's alleged assaults against the very women who the former president himself found himself sitting uncomfortably close to last night. >> he looks comfortable there. >> they were there even before the town hall style debate. donald trump shocked the political world by calling a news conference with clinton's alleged victims and they each delivered statements. >> hi. i'm wendy broderick. i'm here to support donald trump. mr. trump may have said some bad words, but bill clinton raped me, and hillary clinton

threatened me. i don't think there's any comparison. >> i'm kathleen. i am here to support donald trump. >> i think they should all look at the fact that he's a good person. he's not what other people have been saying he's been like hillary. think about that. >> i support trump. at 12 years old, hillary put me through something that you've never put a 12 year old through. she said she's for women and children. she was asked last year on what happened and she said she is supposed to defend whether they did or not. now she's laughing on tape. >> the debate began with the two candidates awkwardly refusing to shake hands. donald trump spent the next hour and a half fighting his way out of a political corner and looking like a man with very

little left to lose. joe? >> mark halperin, we have over the first hour discussed how donald trump lived to fight another day. and he probably turned in his best debate performance of his political career. and most important ly froze mor republicans from defecting from his cause because of the case that he prosecuted against the clinton political machine last night. a case that republicans have been frustrated for years that their leaders haven't been able to fight even though it was ugly and it was off kilter at times. i just find it really hard to believe that some congressman from oklahoma is going to dart from donald trump's team this morning. >> there's no doubt there will be fewer defections than there would have been without that performance. trump came in with an actual strategy, which he executed.

it was a flawed performance. he executed something. as we said before, he certainly not just lives to fight another day but brings back people, elites and grassroots vote nears t -- voters into the fold. >> mika, on friday and saturday, we saw billy bush and "access hollywood" bus nonstop. if the goal is to get that off of the front pages of the newspapers and stop those clips from running in a 24 hour a day cycle, mission accomplished for donald trump. >> you can check that box. here are trump's heated attack lines. >> if i win, i am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation. there has never been smany

lies, so muc deception. there has never been anything like this where e-mails and you get a subpoena. you get a subpoena and after getting the subpoena you delete 33,000 e-mails. so we're going to get a special prosecutor and we're going to look into it because you know what? people have been -- their lives have been destroyed for one doing one-fifth of what you've done. it's a disgrace. you ought to be ashamed of yourself. >> i want to follow up on that. >> everything he just said is absolutely false, but i'm not surprised. it's awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> because you would be in jail. >> secretary clinton -- >> she got caught in a total lie. her papers went out to all her friends at the banks, goldman sachs and everybody else. she said things, wikileaks, that

just came out. she lied. now she's blaming the lie on the late great abraham lincoln. that's one that i haven't heard. okay. honest abe. honest abe never lied. that's the big difference between abraham lincoln and you. that's a big, big difference we're talking about some difference. she complains that donald trump took advantage of the tax code. why didn't she change it? why didn't you change it when you were a senator? i heard hillary complaining about so many different things over the years. she's been there for 30 years. been doing this stuff. she never changed. she never will change. >> mark halperin is still with us along with the chair of department of african-american studies at princeton university eddie, and contributor to time magazi magazine and how did donald trump do last night? >> if his goal was just to douse

himself in kerosene and let everyone watch the expespectacld watch his body burn over the next month and light hillary on fire along the way, is the bar now for running for president just to be willing to put yourself through utter humiliation over and over and over? that wasn't pretty for her. and for him either. >> absolutely. i think it was -- we hit the bottom last night. and what's so interesting about it to me is that in the midst of all of the kind of theater, we didn't hear anything substantive from donald trump and what was striking about it is that hillary clinton couldn't throw the knockout punch in the midst of all of this. spectacle at its worst. >> we sort of changed our perspective and view of what presidential campaigns can be

over the last year and a half. if you put this thing in a vacuum and didn't know anything about this event and you had a candidate up on stage basically referring to hillary clinton as the devil in one segment when he said he was surprised bernie sanders joined the devil. had hate in her heart. talked about putting here in jail through a special prosecutor when he became president and holding a press conference before that debate with people who accused her husband of rape. bizarre spectacle but donald trump on the chopping block before the debate and people said maybe he'll get out of this race, he pushes on. >> that's the amaze thing. i'm with joe. it was probably his best debate performance, which is sort of remarkable, right? he said she should be in jail and she's the devil and has hate in her heart but he wasn't that bad. he did some good things last

night. the problem good things help him not at all and maybe hurt him in what he's trying to do. if this was six months ago, solidifying the republican base behind him, okay, right, there is an element of the republican base who wants that confrontation with the clintons and feels as though leaders have been insufficiently willing to force that conversation and last night was their high moment. the problem is that the election is in 30 days, right? he needs those people. he has some trouble there, right? you're seeing rebellion in the ranks. he needs independents. he needs women. there's just not much there last night that i think would convince you if you were not for him previously, particularly if you're a woman, he kept referring to hillary clinton as she, her, which was a concerted strategy. i'm not sure why. so i think he did do enough to stay in the race and keep them from running but didn't do

anything that would help him win. >> this was a campaign, mika, in the trauma unit and it was about to flat line and he's out of the trauma unit now. i don't know if he's in icu or critical care or whatever. he's lived to fight another day. i suspect that to follow-up on what you said, i suspect he box mo -- becomes more dangerous for the clintons by the day. instead of shooting from the hip about bill clinton and his past and he's going to say things that were said for years. he's going to execute the case against bill clinton and hillary clinton and the corruption that surrounded the clintons and i think that's all he's going to do and in a sense, the republican party, all of these people that abandoned him this

weekend allowed him to be back where he was in the primary. >> that's where he's best by the way. >> politically. >> when it all started, everybody said in chattering class, he'll never win the nomination. believe i was supposed to win a truck for that. everybody laughed. stormed off the set. acted as if they needed a shower after the conversation. he won the nomination. he's just a reality star. he doesn't know what he's doing. he says ridiculous things. he just gave us probably the highest rating reality show that we've seen so far over the course of this weekend. he took again a moment where everybody was saying it is over. like this is the one. and he just doubled down on it. >> escaped. >> i think you're right. they think they won and dominated last night. the lesson they'll take away is he took gloves off completely to the extent they were still on his hands, took them off and

went personal and deep and let's try that for the next 30 days and see what happens. >> a more populist tone from now on. sexual assault victims every day. >> he'll go to war against the clintons and the media and the establishment republican party. >> vital parts of what the message is but two other things you talked about last night and they're bullish on. one is the change message. the notion she's been there for 30 years. he'll keep talking about that and then policy on things like taxes, on things like foreign policy, on things like judges, i don't think they're going to drop that from the arsenal because that allows them to build a center right coalition around big policy issues that a lot of voters do care about. >> let's bring in donald trump's campaign manager, kellyanne conway. i have three boxes here. hold on one second. box number one, kellyanne conway is going to quit the campaign. true or false?

>> false. >> okay. >> really bad reporting by nbc by the way. >> here's another one. mike pence is going to get off the ticket. he's going to leave. he's done. it's over, right? >> false. he's on his way to north carolina today and has a full slate of events. go ahead and look them up. >> and donald trump is going to be pushed to the side. i heard this late into the evening last night that donald trump would be pushed aside and somehow the republicans are going to cobble together an alternative to donald trump. hold on. how did that go. what's happening there? >> 0 for 3. >> that's an x. so if you score at home, three xs. what happened last night with all of this bad reporting and what is the next month going to look like? what's donald trump going to do over the next month? >> we could back up into the weekend reporting, joe. this idea that i'm not on

twitter or where am i? how about i'm in the tower all weekend long in debate prep and speaking with my client as were many people. that's our job after all. i think people are looking for excitement and crazy stories. tune into the campaign. there's plenty there. watch the debate last night. you have lots of fodder. and we're just so pleased with mr. trump and the debate last night. that was a masterful performance. he took the case right to hillary clinton from the very beginning. i hear her team really trying to spin the heck out of it last night and this morning as, hey, she came to talk about the issues. she's the one who started this in the first debate with these diversionary tactics and extraneous mentions even though lester holt wasn't talking about it and even though it had nothing to do with the subject matter at hand. last night donald trump talked about her 33,000 deleted e-mails, 15,000 or 17,000 she never turned over and doesn't know that c means confidential

in a document. someone that's been u.s. senator, secretary of state, first lady. she doesn't know the c means that. her entire failed record in libya, in benghazi when chris stevens, the ambassador and others, pleaded to get more security. they were ignored and they're now dead. he took her on with russian reset and with the fact that isis was created and so he took the case directly to her, and i don't think it was her best night. she seemed off her game and rattled. >> kellyanne, it's willie. good to see you this morning. donald trump announced during the debate he would appoint a special prosecutor if he was elected president to look into hillary clinton and her e-mails and in an offhand moment he said she would be in jail if he were president. does he stand by that this morning? >> that was a quip. i'll go with nbc on it. he had already finished his statement. she said something that's why you'll never be president.

he said you would be in jail. and so that was his answer. as for the special prosecutor, i think that's donald trump channeling the frustration he hears from thousands of voters on the stump every day. they're very frustrated that she has a different set of rules for her. he's channeling the frustration he hears from people. how can she not have faced any type of penalty for doing something where people who do far less have faced a serious penalty, and this is the whole problem with hillary clinton. her campaign loves to brag. she's been in public service for 30 years. a, where is the product and deliverable and, b, if you've been there all that time, how do you not know these things and why is there a separate set of rules applied to exactly what this campaign is about. she's a washington insider benefiting from the rigged system. he's going disrupt it. >> just to put a point, the jail line he was joking about her being in jail? >> she made a snide comment and he said this is why you can't be

president and he said she would be in jail. whether she goes to jail is not up to donald trump. it's up to whoever adjudicates whatever crime she has or has not committed. >> kellyanne, reinmany have condemned trump and many others pulling support from donald trump. any effort to get these republicans back? >> i hope so. we welcome them back. we would love their support. we have a lot of their voter support. we're competitive and winning in many of those states. we're taking the case directly to the voters. he's a master communicator and natural connector with people and i think forums like last night, he can take the message to hem and cut through noise or silence. of course we welcome them. if they don't come around and

don't want to support their party nominee, that itself is incredible. how it's only donald trump's burden is beyond me. they're going to have to be on the ballot with many of the people you just mentioned. i want to add my name to the list, of course, of people who among with melania trump who felt the comments were offensive and unacceptable and i'm pleased that donald trump apologized for them. he did it last night and that matters to people. and then of course, mika, he said there's a huge difference between words and actions. let's make very clear that is specifically why he raised how hillary clinton has treated many of these women over the years. she has attacked them. she's shamed them. she's blamed them. and it's always somehow the woman's fault and he's making the distinction between words and actions. >> kellyanne, to win this race donald trump has to get women. what did he do last night to

pull women in? he seemed defensive. he didn't seem really like he was apologetic at all for what he had done. i don't see how you're actually going to win this race. >> those are a couple different questions. did you hear him say i apologize? i would think that meat him apologetic. he said he was embarrassed and didn't like it. he said that several times and many times since friday's revelation. i'll leave it to the american people to figure out that when someone says i apologize they are being apologetic. secondly on women more broadly, he talked last night about how to make them safe and more prosperous. this election is simple. you either want more of the same, that would be hillary clinton and her 30-year record with little deliverable. why are millions and millions of women lacking in health insurance, in poverty, and yet she's been there all this time. secondly, people don't feel safe as they did eight years ago.

and if you don't feel as safe as you did eight years ago, if you're worried about safety and prosperity, he made a very compelling case last night. he's also holding hillary clinton to account. we know from over the weekend it's not getting much coverage yet but we know over the weekend it's revealed in e-mails that she said you have to have a public position and private position. that's exactly what people hate about politicians is that you tell donors one thing, like we're all so deplorable and irredeemable or here's my private position and you go out in public and you pretend that you're something you're not. i have faith in women. i know they're savvy consumers and can see the difference in these two people last night. i think last night you saw a hillary clinton not doing a very good job defending her record and yet seeming incredibly defensive. >> all right. thank you so much. appreciate you being with us. let's go to st. louis right now. nbc news correspondent katy tur

boring weekend for you. boring night. what in the world happened? >> well, donald trump -- some in the republican party say this campaign is imploding. i know kellyanne conway is going to dispute that notion. there were talks over the weekend about who in the campaign was going to remain standing after this weekend. there was rumors, i know kellyanne addressed this a moment ago, that she was going to step down. she didn't feel comfortable with this language and that she was a mother and christian. she again has pushed back on that as of last night even though she didn't push back on it when we asked her before our web story went to air. over the weekend, 50 different national lawmakers, congressmen and senators, have come out and said that they're just not going to support donald trump. many of them even saying that

they don't believe that he's fit for office. a number of them also saying they believe he should step aside. this weekend was really a breaking point for the gop and last night was the test to see where the rnc would go. would it stick by trump or find a way to separate itself, untangle itself from its nominee? i was talking to a pretty important state director last night about how they felt about the weekend and how they felt about the rnc and how they felt about the debate. i want to read you what they said. this debate is heartbreaking for me. the depth to which we have fallen in political discourse is worse than embarrassing. it's degrading to the american people. as for the rnc getting onboard with bringing these victims or these accusers, bill clinton's accusers, so-called victims by the trump campaign, to the debate, the director reacted like this. that's a total embarrassment.

every woman in america has now been told by the rnc that it is okay to build a presidential campaign on attacking women for their husband's bad behavior. guys? >> nbc's katy tur. thank you so much. yeah. there are a lot of people that looked at last night as a low point in american politics. all i can say is they obviously weren't alive when robert bork was nominated. that's as low as it got. >> or back to when gary hart got outed. >> or we could go back -- if you want to go back to the campaign of 1800 -- i'm tired of -- it's like all of those little kids that get on the floor after obamacare passed. i hated obamacare. all those little kids tonight democracy died. come on. how many times can democracy

die? how many times can we have a low point in american political history? i would say what was brought up about clarence thomas in the middle of the supreme court nomination about coke cans and i won't even get into it, that was really scummy. what happened with robert bork before the man even respectable jurist was able to testify before the judiciary committee saying that robert bork's america was america of back alley abortions and segregated lunch counters. you can talk about gary hart and the way they were absolutely shoved around and battered and abused by the media in new hampshire. >> we can talk about this as a continuous decline to the bottom. let me ask you this question. i was really struck. all of this talk about more of the same with regards to hillary clinton. what political economic position

did donald trump put forward last night that wasn't more of the same in relation to the folks that support him. >> that's been my complaint. my complaint about donald trump and tax code and everything else and donald trump not paying taxes for 15 years, i think the biggest scandal is not that donald trump hasn't paid taxes for 15 years, we have a tax code that allows it and you have two candidates, two candidates that are going to do nothing to change that. donald trump won't do anything to change it. and hillary clinton won't do anything to change it. because hillary clinton has been funded her entire political career by some of the richest people on wall street. >> substance of him as a change candidate is really all the bluster. it's really the performance. the style. >> i don't think he'll change the tax code. we can all talk about carried interest. what are you willing to fight for? does anyone believe either of these candidates are going to fight mitch mcconnell and paul ryan to make billionaires pay more than 14%?

>> unfortunately the theater of what was happening last night overshadowed any issues even at times when he didn't make sense on them. >> on both sides, we really didn't talk about the issues. donald trump got syria wrong. hillary clinton said absolutely nothing about it. we didn't get to other policy issues that donald trump has been off on. and we didn't even get to hillary clinton's open borders comment. >> two things. one, this is lowest ever. nothing drives me crazier than that. i would remind people that bill clinton was impeached by the house after having an affr with an intern. you can argue whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. i remember watching all of that 1998. democracy is remarkably resilience which is a good thing. as much as we try try to do it, it tends to do well. probably the first 20 minutes set the tone for the whole thing so within the first 20 minutes

we had trump talking about bill clinton and his conduct and what he alleged hillary sort of covered up. we had the conversation about the hot mike tape. so after that, it sort of felt -- then he was to mika's point about theatrics, he made it hard not to focus on that. he was behind her. there was a lot of theatrics to look at. >> he put the moral debate right on center stage, and i think she should have addressed it. i think she should have addressed it and put it away and said, listen, first of all, the people you have here are unproven things. there are transgressions my husband had. no one was more upset than me. i stayed with it to keep my family together and for the country. it wasn't about me and my country. that would have put it away. why doesn't she just say that? it's incredibly human and

incredibly correct. she did it for her family and for the country. you can go talk to bill about that. bill and donald, you have a lot in common. go talk. just stand up. >> guinness book of world records here, it seems we've broken a record for our 7:00 a block. it is 7:30. and you can check -- >> alex, is that a record? >> that's a record. we're all going to be fired. tell phil we'll have to blow through a couple breaks. we apologize. coming up next, we have tom brokaw. he joins us. come on. >> i just want to know. >> my kid has a school play. i got to get up to connecticut. tom brokaw joins us with his take on this whirlwind weekend. you're watching "morning joe." i hope we'll be right back. whether i's connecting one of the world's most innovative campes.

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joining us now, tom brokaw and ben ginsburg. gentlemen, i'll read from "the wall street journal" opinion page. americans didn't learn much new about donald trump in the video of his sexual boasting with billy bush. anyone paying attention already knew that he's crude and lavish

and judging women by their looks. republican voters nominated him despite these risks. and now the release of an especially lewd 11-year-old tape put candidacy in crisis and republicans dropped their support a month before election day. so now they say tom brokaw that their e-mail inbox is filled with republicans saying this is a double standard. because while mr. trump may talk like it, bill clinton acts like one and hillary clinton enables him and democrats still revere jfk who was a sexual predator in the white house. is there a point to be made here, tom brokaw? >> i think that obviously donald trump tried to invoke and include bill clinton last night. the country has been through that for one thing. and i think the country feels that everyone should have learned lessons from it. for him to dismiss what he had to say as locker room talk, i've been in a lot of locker rooms

over the years and last time i heard that was in junior high uninformed people saying outrageous things. last night what he did was just kind of stabilized where he was. i talked to a very prominent republican after the debate. one who wants him to get out of the race. he said the best that he could do was to get others from not abandoning him at that point. deeper in "the wall street journal" article it says in that context mr. trump could say he started the movement, mr. pence is now able to lead it to success and saying in effect get out because you're going to lose both house and senate if you don't do something soon. what he had to do last night was to bring people back to him that not just a crowd that's been with him, but he had to bring people that were kind of on the fence line so to speak to his side. i'm not sure that he accomplished that. and when he said that he would appoint a special prosecutor to go after her and later said you

would be in jail, my guess is for people who are paying not a lot of attention to the details of everything, that statement gets their attention. >> so ben ginsburg, last night you were being asked what steps could be taken to remove donald trump from the ballot. i suspect you're not going to be asked that question again over the next 30 days. donald trump apparently has decided he's going to fight this out to the very end. what does that mean to the republican party? >> well, it means that if he loses, which i think is the assumption behind your question, we will have a circular firing squad for about a year afterwards. we'll see whether the trump phenomenon is based on donald trump or whether there is more grassroots support for it. there will be a battle between moderates and conservatives for policy positions. and the driving forces behind that will really be the elected

leadership in congres and the state houses. >> what is the challenge for the party at this point? and especially after watching the debate last night, ben ginsburg. the republicans who have shunned him, are they glad they did that? >> i suspect that the republicans who shunned him are glad because after all today is one day but there are still 30 days to go in the campaign and there has been a three day period let alone a 30-day period where there hasn't been some new revelation or development in the course of this campaign. so the republicans who got out are out and they will run their campaigns accordingly in their states. the question really is what the party as a whole does and the interesting point you were talking about is what does the republican national committee do? reince priebus is flying around

on the plane with him. rnc is mortgaged everything they have to produce a ground game. can that ground game produce? if donald trump had as good a debate as he believes he had, that should show up in numbers including early voting and absentee numbers. there's going to be a test of at least the institutional party really soon here. >> so did donald trump have a good debate? >> you know, i think from a stabilizing point of view he had a pretty good debate. i don't think she had great debate because in part she has not yet sold the american people on why she should be president. she's got a lot of grocery items lined up. the big vision we have yet to hear from her. i do think that what you're going to see and what's already in play in the house and senate they've already kind of acknowledged that he's not going to be the president. we have to save the republican party in the house and in the senate. that's where the concentration is shifting very fast at this point.

that statement from rob portman yesterday, for example, who is a middle of the road very popular figure in ohio highly regarded on both sides of the aisle, he gave trump the back of his hand. >> let's pull back quickly. you have seen a lot of these debates. we've been talking about whether or not this represents a low moment in american politics and american democracy that we hit bottom what did you see in terms of all of the things that you've seen with regards to these sorts of debates. where are we? >> defining deviance down. it's a reflection of our culture. we live in a culture in which almost anything goes. the stuff you can read online and see on television, hear in lyrics across the board has bled over into politics. >> that's exactly again what the "times" said. it's a bit much -- "wall street journal." it's a bit much to see liberals

that said mr. clinton's exploitations was about sex and the same moralist who celebrate pop music in a sex crazed culture outraged by a man who was marinated in that culture before he entered politics. >> doesn't lie about it. >> the other thing is, what i think we do have to keep in mind, this thing changes at warp speed. a week ago at this time we were not talking about his comments on the bus for example. you know how much i have begun over the ufo theory. they are concerned about a terrorist attack. economic meltdown for another. and they don't think they have put away questions about her health. >> all right. >> tom brokaw, ben ginsburg, thank you both. ahead on msnbc, mike pence sits down with stephanie in one of his first interviews since he didn't defend donald trump over the "access hollywood" tape.

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a chart that can describe what's going on here. >> no, no. >> joining us now, clinton

campaign chief strategist joel benenson. and steve rattner. >> what happened from the clinton campaign's perspective? >> i think on a macro level, donald trump had to have a game changing performance. he had a campaign that was failing on the way in. republicans fraying him all weekend. he had to show them something he hadn't been able to show them before. i think he completely failed to do it, kind of from the moment he went out there, doubling down on his bogus apology, that really wasn't an apology. i dop think anyone who heard this tape think it's locker room banter. i think he lost it on several issues where he was incoherent throughout the night. >> you think he's going to drop out of the race? >> no, no. he said he's not going to drop out. >> you want him to drop out? >> at this pount, it's not practical. you had ben ginsberg on before

me, he knows, but 29 days to go. i don't think that's an option. >> steve, what did you think of the debate? >> trump benefitted from the soft bigotry of low expectations. >> i knew you were a bush man. >> i was. and i think he saved himself from complete disaster. i don't think he advanced his cause. >> do you think he mitt gaded disaster? >> from the tape? >> mm-hmm. >> i think he did, just by throwing up a bunch of stuff. >> he put on a reality show. >> you put on a reality show and people get confused as to what the reality is. i thnk me got out alive, and i think he will be in the race. i don't think you'll see him move up in the polls where. >> think what he misses to do, and this has been a weakness we see over and over again, is he really needed to go beyond just trying to solidify a base. he needs to talk to people in the middle, and he seems to be incapable of doing that. >> what about, steve rattner,

her nonanswer to the cr transcripts, the goldman sachs. >> what part of the nonanswer? >> the whole part she didn't answer. do you want me to go further? i can. she deflected. she started blaming russia and the hackers for releasing her information and revealing her to be potentially talking in two different ways and she did not answer that. i'm sorry i had to say that, but you made me. >> there's a lot in there. in terms of talking two different ways and joel may disagree with me, but i have never met a politician in my 30 or 40 years of hanging around them who didn't talk in somewhat different ways its private or public. i have been on the show 1,000 times where people said this and this, but i'm not going to say it on camera. i think she's been tough on wall street. i think she's tougher on wall street that donald trump who

wants to repeal dodd/frank. what she said on wall street has been clear. so i don't have a problem with it. >> yeah. >> joel, does the hillary clinton campaign have more tapes ready? like the one we saw on friday? >> we have more tapes? >> yeah, do you have opposition research like what we saw on friday. >> we have nothing to do with those tapes, willie. >> i'm not saying you put that tape out specifically. i'm saying do you have tapes like that you're prepared to release over the next month. >> we don't have tapes of donald trump. the world has tapes of donald trump. >> they had them for a long time. >> this to me one of the points about donald trump. he seems to be living in some alternate reality. he's a tv performer. whether you're talking about his tape recording where he was clearly for the war in iraq or this stuff, he doesn't seem to realize what he haas said and done is on videotape and audiotape. you can't deny it and say what are you going to believe, the

ya odd wroe tape or me? >> mark halperin. >> do you expect more of this to come out? >> people have said there are more out there. i suspect somebody out there at some point is going to say here's this guy doing the same thing over again. >> mark halperin. >> joel, under questioning last night, mr. trump said that despite what he's heard saying on the access hollywood tapes he's never forcibly kissed anyone or groped anyone against their will. do you have reason to believe he wasn't telling the truth when he said that? >> i would have no reason to believe other than what we all heard on the tapes, mark. i think it was pretty clear to any american, and i think there are probably as many americans who watched the first debate, i don't know how many watched last night, but 80 million, for 48 hours, they heard that tape over and over again. those kind of despicable, demeaning comments bragging and boasting. oddly enough, i hate to bring it up, but nbc fired billy bush over what his role was in those tapes. or suspended.

sorry, suspended. this man, you know, doubled down on it last night on the same comments. >> well, when you say reason to believe, we don't know for sure, but he has been sued for sexual harassment, was settled out of court. there is stuff out there. >> by who? trump? >> yeah. >> see. >> trump or clinton? >> trump. >> just a tratgist, why wouldn't you have her go there on these unfortunate turns that have been taken and these women who were paraded out and put in the front row, accusers of bill clinton. >> why wouldn't you go there? >> why wouldn't you go there? why wouldn't you urge your candidate as the campaign strategist to go there and say, listen, these are all unconfirmed reports. this is totally inappropriate. and what we do know about my husband, the world knows, we have been through it. lord knows i have been through it. nobody was more hurt than me. but i did what i did for my family and for my country because itasn't about me at

the time. those were my choices. >> hillary clinton has said that in the past. >> she has. she has talked akeeping her family together. and you know, i think the issue right now -- >> wouldn't that have been a powerful way to sort of turn the page last night? >> i think we're in this moment. what she did last night was the right thing to say. this goes beyond this tape. this is a man, and he again last night refused to apologize to the khan family who he insulted almost again by not apologizing and saying captain khan would have been alive if he had been the captain in chief. the things he said about judge curiel in indiana. >> totally agree. >> this is a pattern of disrespect for anybody who disagrees with this man, the way he treats people who disagree with him. >> totally agree. >> the president of the united states has to listen and respect people. >> but to get it off her -- joel benenson, thank you. i'm just concerned. >> a very concerned person.

>> mark halperin, we thank you for being with us. >> this capped off an incredible weekend in the presidential race. the past 72 hours boiled down into two minutes. t ? yeahdo. yoguys working on some ptty stuf overre, right? like a nanguage focrazy-bi rlanng machines. well, t me sfically. i work on . so i bld the worli get it.es. cause 's superh-level. i actuly do build machines blink if wt you' doing involv encrypted data transfer. wait, what? wwww..wow? what wow? ther no woho buzng somehings arsi poss. the e king ddlexus turbo a. the v that des togo beyont the e ththput of perfection.

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innovaon and you. ilips sonica. veown yoophilnire.. >> i just start kissing them. like a magnet. i don't even wait. when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. >> i'm out. i can no longer in good conscience endorse this person for president. >> i respectfully ask you with all due respect to step aside. step down. allow someone else to carry the banner of these principles. >> i believe our only option is to formally ask mr. trump to step down.

>> anyone xoo knows me knows these words don't reflect who i am. i said it. i was wrong. and i apologize. >> let me just start off by saying, there is a bit of an elephant in the room. and it is a troubling situation. i'm serious. >> i have said some foolish things, but there's a big difference between the words and actions of other people. bill clinton has actually abused women, and hillary has bullied attacked, shamed, and intimidated his victims. >> the things she has said and been reported in various books and magazines about the women that bill clinton raped, sexually abused, and attacked. not bill clinton's role, but her role as the attacker. >> very courageous women have asked to be here. >> i am wendy, and i'm here to support donald trump. mr. trump may have said some bad words, but bill clinton raped

me. and hillary clinton threatened me. i don't think there's any comparison. >> this was locker room talk. i'm not proud of it. i apologize to my family. i apologize to the american people. certainly, i'm not proud of it, but this is locker room talk. i have great respect for women. nobody has more respect for women than i do. >> he has said that the video doesn't represent who he is. but i think it's clear to anyone who heard it that it represents exactly who he is. >> if you look at bill clinton, far worse. mine are words and his was action. he was what he's done to women. there's never been anybody in the history of politics in this nation that's been so abusive to women. when hillary brings up words that i said 11 years ago, i think it's disgraceful, and i think she should be ashamed of herself, if you want to know the truth. >> what a weekend it's been. good morning. it's monday, october 10th. >> what a weekend.

>> welcome to "morning joe." what this morning's "new york times" describes as a deeply ugly moment in american politics, donald trump and hillary clinton squared off in what would be one of the most remarkable political showdowns in modern american history. last night's debate devolved into a pitched battle over 90 minutes framed pie a decade-old access hollywood tape and past allegations of rape, sexual abuse, and the systemic cover-up of bill clinton's alleged assaults against the very women who the former president found himself sitting uncomfortably close to last night. even before the town hall style debate, donald trump shocked the political world by calling a news conference with clinton's alleged victims and they each delivered statements. >> i'm wendy debrodrick, and i'm here to support donald trump. mr. trump may have said some bad words, but bill clinton raped

me. and hillary clinton threatened me. i don't think there's any comparison. >> i'm kathleen willey, and i'm here to support donald trump. >> i think they should all look at the fact that he's a good person. he's not what other people have been saying he's been, like hillary. think about that. >> we support trump. i, at 12 years old, hillary put me through something that you have never put a 12-year-old through. and she said she's for women and children. when she was asked last year on what happened, she said she's supposed to defend me. whether they did or not, she's laughing on tape. >> the debate began with the two candidates awkwardly refusing to shake hands. donald trump spent the next hour and a half fighting his way out of a political corner and

looking like a man with very little left to lose. so joe, we'll start off with you. what did you think? >> despite what you think of donald trump, what you think of hillary clinton, what you think of how this race has gone over the weekend and where you think it's going to end up, you think last night any difference at all to the final outcome in november, i think there are a couple of things, and people in the press may nay want to admit, but it was plainly evident watching it on tv last night. number one, it was donald trump's most effective debate performance to date. there's fought a close second. just not a close second. secondly, despite the fact she had an unprecedented cheering section in the media, the fact is for somebody watching, and people see this if they go back and watch it again today or if they see parts of it a week from now or a month from now, hillary clinton was on the defensive most of the night. she seemed unsure of herself most of the night.

and he dominated the second debate in the same way she dominated the first debate. and third, and i think most importantly, for this political season, donald trump, who has made the republican party members' lives living and breathing hells for the past year and a half, last night turned it up to 11. and all of those people that jumped ship about halfway through the debate were looking at their tv saying, oh, shoot. because, and again, i know everybody in the press hates donald trump. i'm just giving you the reality. >> what he said was horrible. >> he's horrible, blah, blah, i heard it. i saw it on twitter. i understand. you believe he's an evil man. i'm just sgiving you the political reality. this is the political reality. that for the republican base,

donald trump delivered the attack against the clinton machine that the republican base and middle america have been waiting for for years now. and so good luck being in pence acola, florida, saying, i'm off donald trump. or saying in kansas, oh, i'm not going to be for donald trump anymore. especially when no republican in america should have been surprised by what they heard on friday. >> and no republican in america could have done what he did last night. they just -- oh, my god. it was epic. it was vintage trump. he produced a day-long show that rocked the political world. take a look at some of the key moments. >> with his back against the wall. >> oh, yeah. >> if i win, i am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there has never been so many

lies, so much deception. there has never been anything like this where e-mails, and you get a subpoena, you get a subpoena, and after getting the subpoena, you delete 33,000 e-mails. >> so we're going to get a special prosecutor, and we're going to look into it because you know what. people have been -- their lives have been destroyed for doing one fifth of what you have done. it's a disgrace. and honestly, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. >> secretary clinton, i want to follow -- >> everything he said is absolutely false, but i'm not vised. it's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> because you would be in jail. >> secretary clinton -- >> now, she's blaming -- she got caught in a total lie. her papers went out to all her friends at the banks, goldman sachs and everybody else. and she said things, wikileaks, that just came out. and she lied.

now she's blaming the lie on the late great abraham lincoln. that's one that i haven't heard. okay. honest abe. honest abe never lied. that's the good thing, the big difference between abraham lincoln and you. that's a big, big difference. we're talking about some difference. >> she complains that donald trump took advantage of the tax code. well, why didn't she change it? why didn't you change it when you were a senator? i heard hillary complaining about so many thingsover the years, but she's been there for 30 years. she never changed and she never will change. >> even the moderators were not spared from trump's attacks. >> i'd like to know, anderson, why aren't you bringing up the e-mails? i would like to know. >> we brought up the e-mails. >> no, it hasn't, and it hasn't been finished. >> ken has a question. >> nice, one on three. >> we're going to move on to syria. >> she said a lot of things that are false. i think we should be allowed to dispute it because she has been

a disaster as a senator. >> we're going to move on. >> i was against -- >> you can see it. >> i was against the war in iraq. it was not debunked, and you voted for it and you shouldn't have. >> i would like to move on to an online question. >> she just went about 25 seconds over her time. >> she did not. >> can i respond. >> quickly. >> she went over a minute over, and you don't stop her. when i go one second over, it's like -- >> you had many answers. >> really very interesting. >> hillary clinton wants to allow -- >> why did it morph into that? answer the question. do you still believe -- >> why don't you interrupt her? you interrupt me all the time. >> would you please explain whether or not the muslim ban still stands? >> it's called extreme vetting. >> okay, with us, we have former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace, who has been up all night. you be careful now, nicolle. chair of african-american

studies at princeton university, eddy gloie glaude jr., and mark halperin joins willie, joe, and me. >> what was your takeaway on a mind blowing night? >> something we're all still processing, that that was a p c presidential debate. i learned in my 20s not to get in a bar fight with a guy who has nothing to lose. donald trump had nothing to lose. he stripped away any pretense of being a politician, any pretense of civility and said i'm throwing everything at her. i texted this to nikol last night. i said this performance by trump tonight is a fantasy come true for people who haven't liked hillary clinton for 25, 30 years. >> and bill clinton. >> he got to stand on a stage and say all the things they have been saying and e-mailing to each other that you know very well for a generation. now, i don't think that wins him any new voters. i think it talks to the people who already loved him and were cheering him on. i saw it on twitter.

i was getting texts. the campaign was thrilled with his performance. >> what does that do? this is really the bottom line. what is the net effect of that init stops the leading, and a lot of those people that jumped ship this weekend are having to answer phone calls all day today from their republican base telling them that they're weasels and they need to get back onboard. >> there was talk he wasn't even going to show up, that he was going to get out of the race, as many people asked for him to do. he's now stabilized where hao was, but losing the race. i don't think it helps him win, but he's not going anywhere. >> beware of the man with nothing to lose is what i tweeted yesterday afternoon. what willie was talking about as far as the bar fight goes. >> beware of the woman without any sleep. >> we have already learned that off camera this morning. your reaction to the debate? and most importantly, what does it mean moving forward? >> in disclosure, we were talking throughout the whole thing. we saw it in real time very differently. i think i was incapable of

shaking -- i don't think i can process trump in an event setting because it's never just the event. he gives a speech, and we go on and we analyze his speech, but then by 8:00, he says something more outrageous to undermine it or contradict it, and then by 3:00 in the morning, he's done something else. in isolation, the 90 minutes did represent the net effect of kellyanne conway and chris christie and rudy giuliani and others impressing upon him the need to prep. what you saw was someone who had done real prep, with someone playing hillary clinton, with someone playing a moderator, and preparing to answer questions for 90 minutes. they feel like they had to teach him how to pivot after the first debate. i think that operation was largely successful. pivot he did. but he went in there way behind, and i think he's still behind in this race. and the kinds of people that he needed to win over were the ones that were repulsed by his talk of grabbing the p-word. i don't think people repulsed by

his talk of grabbing the p-word were turning back in his favor last night. >> there might have been people who were emboldened. >> the net effect was it was triage, he was bleeding out. his campaign was coming to an end. everybody was talking about billy bush, everybody was talking about him getting out of the race. nobody is talking about billy bush this morning. last night, everyone was talking ability, what are they going to do? subsection e of the republican rules allows donald trump -- that's not happen. so he's still in the race, and you're in indianapolis, where mike pence has spent quite a bit of time, and mike pence was a guy over the past couple days who disappeared. we got the word, hey, you know what, i'm just going to hang back for 48 hours. >> there's a word for it. >> you just -- you take care of this. he put out a tweet early on attacking donald trump, saying he was offended. they then leaked to the press

that they were shocked, flabbergasted, horrified. again, i'm going to actually quote paul krugman here. who could have been shocked by what you saw on friday? please, republicans. >> i was shocked. >> no, but i'm saying republicans who are saying oh, my god, i thought he was an upright, moral preacher, please, just stop. i think mike pence is the perfect weather vane in middle america. he sort of darted away from him for the past couple days and let the press know how deeply offended he was. and the second the debate was over, there's a statement. i'm shocked, stunned, deeply saddened. the second the debate is over, put up the tweet, yay. >> i'm standing by you. >> yay, you win. what are your reactions, mark halperin? >> look, i think he accomplished three things, which given the state of the campaign, fought only after the tape on friday but leading up to that, are significant. one is he's energized the republican base. no doubt that he said a string of things last night to her face

that will get a lot of people energized. as willie said, that's not a majority. two, he's got his running mate apparently back on board. i came here from st. louis to go to north carolina today with mike pence. having pence back on the trail, that was hanging in the blas. that's a key thing to accomplish, and inside his campaign, they're confident, energized, excited. which was not the case over the weekend. they were worried. he had his best debate performance. he showed a lot that he didn't have in the first debate. here's what he has not accomplished. will people today come out against him the way they did over the weekend. that's still possible, including some big names. two is how does he find an electoral college path? he didn't have it before friday. he still doesn't right now. if he can consolidate republicans. he can get back to being plausible, and then hoping for some revelations about hillary clinton or a strong third debate performance. >> i think, mika, nobody suggests this morning at this table that he somehow tightened

the race. what he's done is he's saved his campaign to fight another day. what was your overall takeaway of everything? >> i still think it's possible he doesn't win. i will say a couple things happened that i'm still trying to get through here. e media completely overreached. republicans completely overreached. i just don't understand why any of the people who were denouncing donald trump vehemently and pulling their support are shocked now. what? >> what do you mean? >> his statements are horrible. those statements were horrible. there are many more available to you. >> to be like that? >> what do you mean? he said he wanted -- hold on. this is the same man who told howard stern he wanted to have sex with a dead princess because he liked her skin. >> what? i missed that. >> are you really shocked? i mean, come on, who could be shocked? >> my point last night was hugh

hewitt was on. he was never trump, and then he was really for trump, and then he pulled his support over the weekend. i asked him the same question you're posing. i think people who were never for him aren't shocked because this was the character of the man that they could never get behind. and then people that were always for him either didn't know -- >> no, they knew. >> nicolle, that's pathetic. >> don't yell at me. >> information out there, baked in the cake. really, yes. >> okay. >> do a little google. >> just asking. i'll check the google. >> this guy says a lot of things like that. >> okay. i never heard the p-word. >> you didn't hear him say that in new hampshire. were you asleep in his rally? >> must have been asleep. >> if i could just finish what i was saying because you do need to actually google him and so do keep republicans who endorsed him and then pulled their endorsements last night.

this is what you put you over edge? you're pathetic, weak, spineless, and now you're going to have to come back potentially. what i wanted to say is that i -- >> what did you want to say? >> i well, i mean, to be shocked, to think this and the first thing he said. >> i hate to -- >> get off your high horse, republicans, get off your high horse. clinton campaign, please, god, get off your high horse. >> if i were the clinton campaign, i would be bite my tongue. >> they cancel each other out, again. >> any time the topic comes out, but -- >> i was horrified how penetrating his attacks were. i was horrified. he teed up the whole day to go there, and he went there. it was savage. >> i hate once again to bring up paul krugman, but i think he tweeted it out yesterday. he's absolutely right. republicans acted shocked on friday. >> news anchors acted shocked. >> because he was behind. if he were ten points ahead, they would have said the same

thing, oh, well, you know, my wives and daughters are upset, but they know donald trump is going to -- we have been through this for like a year and a half. they pick friday when he's down in the polls. >> this is who they nominated. >> james baldwin said civilizations aren't ended by wicked people. they're ended by the spineless. i agree. so i'm going to make two distinctions. one is you're right about the politics. everything you said. last night, i was horrified because i saw the slow death of democracy by 1,000 cuts of the stupid and the vile. there's one thing to talk about the politics itself. when we talk about the state of our country and the state of american politics, donald trump represents the bottom. the bottom. >> really? >> to me in the sense -- >> the only one? >> no,'m just saying he's an exaggerated indication of what the state of american politics actually is. >> you sound like republicans talking about bill clinton in

1992. >> i was confused who you were talking about. mark? >> if there's no difference between donald trump was revealed to say on friday and past statements, why did melania put out a statement denouncing what he said if there's no difference? >> because there was some massive, massive reaction and it was a hot mike, so it was something new. but if you look at any of his interviews with shock jock howard stern or anything that he said on "the apprentice" -- >> none of them involved bragging about violence. >> some of them involve bragging about his daughter. some of them involve bragging about -- i don't want to, like, compete with you about how much i know about horrific, gross statements donald trump has said, but i have to tell you, for everyone to be so shocked and yet hillary clinton and bill clinton, for some reason, get a pass on these things, look, i want hillary to win. i really don't want to have this conversation at all, but people have to come down to earth.

>> the fact is they have had a pass from polite society. a pass from polite society for decades. they just have. and -- >> for actions that are on record. i'm not talking about the women who showed up last night. >> anyway. >> i'm talking about the actions that are on record in the oval office. >> so willie, i guess the question is, for these republicans that scurried away, and now may be forced to come back, if donald trump were up by ten points, would they have ran away on friday? i think that's the point we're making. they're such hypocrites. they scurry away when he's behind. you watch, if he gets five points ahead, they'll come back. donald said he's sorry. >> i had some of the same conversations and interviews on etv with people who flipped. i said where were you last december when he called on a ban for all muslims entering america. that's not a defense of what he said. the tape friday, that's a

question of you didn't know all this was coming? what i do think is different, the distinction, is what he's talking about on the tape is physically grabbing a woman and using his star power to go at somebody, to kiss them if they don't want to be kissed or grab them. >> who are you talking about? >> donald trump, what he's saying on the tape. that's the distinction people make. you're physically going at a woman, physically assaulting a woman. that's different than being creepy and talking about if a girl is an 8 or a 10 or a 4. >> sfil ahead on "morning joe," inside a trump campaign divided. hallie jackson doesn't sleep. she joins us live from st. louis just ahead, along with the "washington post's" eugene robinson. but first, bill karins with a check on the impact of hurricane matthew and some people finally starting to be able to head back to their homes today. bill. >> a lot of them aren't going to like what they see when they get there, from florida to the outer banks, the stork left its mark. this is the outer banks. they were 100 miles from the center of the storm. no stopping that water in the lower levels.

all those homes, all those ruined vehicles. fayetteville, north carolina, the biggest story in eastern nirk was the freshwater flooding from over a foot of rain. two towns are still evacuated because they're worried about dam failures. the tar river included, still has to crest later this week with numerous homes and businesses going under water, and hilton head, that's from the storm surge. that's what six feet of storm surge does. a lot of the downed trees, pine trees, a cleanup that's going to take weeks. let's get to the maps. this is the river flooding, all eastern north carolina and a bunch of these still have to crest. the nuse river especially is one of them. that's not going to crest until wednesday and thursday. that will be higher than floyd in '99. we just upped this number. no longer 19. 20 fatalities in the u.s., and the death toll in haiti, we think will easily go over 900, close to 1,000. 2 million people still without power and $4.6 billion when it's all said and done, in insurance

losses at least. the power will gee going on shortly in a lot of those areas and nice weather for the power crews to get the cleanup going. you're watching "morning joe." ♪ (jetngine) ♪ (heart beat) ♪ (watngrevving)esn weroad ♪ lease thhilarating 201 onlyt yo lco dea lincz for $349 a mth kping hel's guegin cuttg-ed0 nnected. fa.. busineesount o and commatn countsn ntylink. ♪

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coming up on "morning joe" -- >> i have a strange feeling at the debate there will be another name that will come up from hillary clinton that we haven't heard or thought about. i think between now and election day and the one thing trump cannot recover, he recovers from the sleaze, he doesn't recover from the hate stuff. there wul be more women stuff to come and he doesn't recover from that. i would be shocked if between now and november 8th, there aren't three or four names of women we haven't heard or thought about that articulate the problem trump has. >> what do they say about a blind squirrel, willie? >> what? >> every once in a while.

>> even a blind squirrel finds a nut. >> donny deutsch joins us. we'll get his take on whether trump's damage control made up for the tape. hotallreou? how do we ure greatnes erica? it msureby wt we do for ouchdr. hotallreou? it's whys presidt i'll investn ols.

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>> right behind you, could you tell? >> i could tell, yes. >> that was hillary clinton on the plane home last night after the debate, talking about donald trump's looming presence on the stage, standing behind her, directly at many times. over the course of the night. joining us now from st. louis,

nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker who is covering the clinton campaign. how does the clinton campaign feel this morning after the debate? >> well, willie, i can tell you that heading into the debate, a number of clinton campaign officials say they were bracing for an all-out assault and attack from donald trump. and they think that's essentially what they got. they said they weren't overwhelmingly surprised when trump actually brought up the four women who are accusers of bill clinton. they were surprised, of course, he actually brought them to the debate hall. they say secretary clinton handled it with steadiness, their words. particularly the fact that when donald trump raised the issue of bill clinton's accusers, secretary clinton quoted michelle obama, that line that we all know, when they go low, we go high. that was something she was planning for. she quickly pivoted. the question is will that strategy of pivoted work?

the clinton campaign doesn't think trump will win over new voters. the one moment of difficulty was when trump raised the newly leaked wall street speeches. she said politicians sometimes need to be different in private than they are in public. obviously, she was on defense about that a lilt bit last night. she will likely continue to get tough questions about that on the campaign trail. today, she is back on the campaign trail in ohio, where she's going to be urging folks to turn out to register and vote, then she heads to droiths ahead of that state's filing deadline. >> kristen welker, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. >> donny deutsch joins us now along with the "new york times" reporter yamiche alcindor. >> we talked about we usually get through the debates, dreary sometimes. all of us said separately, we were staring at the ceiling at midnight like, what just happened? >> when the debate ended, i kept thinking i could have watched

more of that. what you saw was two people going at each other's throats and this idea you had donald trump really talking about jailing his opponent and then you have dt hillary clinton saying his campaign is imploding. this is stuff you have heard people say, but to have the candidates do that, it was incredible to watch. >> it's like you're describing a huge reality show. >> i want to talk about the reality of the debate last night. and -- >> donny, you said the same thing. last night, you were jittery at midnight. he didn't take anything. >> you're correct in that donald trump was the aggressor, was taking it to her, but he lost the debate. let me tell you why. very simple. this is no longer about politics. the isis a gender war. i have spent thousands of hours in women focus groups. and the friday thing -- >> how did you sneak in? >> that's really pervy. >> how did you sneak in? >> the friday thing of we don't have to redo of grabbing a woman.

every woman in america, as he was lurking behind, as nicolle wallace said, i would have called 911. as he was telling her he was going to jail her, women in america are going to stand up and revolt. it's always been about the women, and there will be more to come. the words didn't mean anything. every woman in america who has ever been held down, oppressed, harassed, there is something in them as a nerve that is hit that is so transcending everything else. if you're not seeing that, you're missing -- by the way, it's not inpoint that men objectify wimb. it's what they heard and saw. to willie's point earlier -- >> i wonder, were you saying this about bill clinton in 1998. >> hillary clinton is running for office, not bill clinton. this is hillary, not bill. >> seriously, are you -- everybody says donald trump -- >> i'm observing what is going on in this country. >> just read what maureen dowd writes about hillary clinton. don't scream.

>> i'm sorry. >> let me make my point. >> a little hyped up. >> you are a little hyped up, but the thing is, i guess, i'll just read from the "wall street journal" who says it's a bit much to see the same liberals who said mr. clinton's actual exploitation of an intern was merely about sex, by the way, they destroyed her life. or who called paula jones trailer trash, remember that line? you know, if you drag a dollar bill through a trailer park, no teller what you'll pick up. now wax indignant about mr. trump's bragging. when people like you, and i know people like you through the 1990s were bragging about bill clinton and what he got away with. >> people like me are observing and understand how women are going to react to this. i'm not passing my moral judgment on either of those. >> where were you in the 1990s. >> doing a lot of drugs.

what i am telling you is that -- >> when did he stop? i thought he still did them. >> what happened friday was different than everything else. was jfk a philanderer? yes. was bill clinton? yes. >> abusive. by the way, jfk in the white house, jfk in the white house had, i believe, like very, very young interns. a code name tweedle dee and tweedle dum, inexplicable. >> and american women love him. which i don't get. >> donny brings up a really good point. this election does seem that it is now going to be an election, it's men on one side. you look at women, educated versus people with high school degrees. it seems you go down the polls, and there is more of a split than i think we have ever seen in our life. >> part of the other thing i should bring up is this idea of

why do we think this moment is different? i have a piece out today in the "new york times" talking about to a lot of strategists and experts who say it feels different because it's perceived he's talking about white women. an ide is at this point, we feel a though white women's lives have to be protected, saved. these people weren't jumping ship when he was talking about mexicans or blacks or muslims. there are people saying that, but i think what hillary clinton did last night is point out what pollsters have been saying to me, that there are a lot of people who look at his attacks on those groups, suburban white women who look at his attacks on mexicans and muslims and blacks and flee and don't want to vote for him for that. this idea of the election being divided, it's not just women versus men because the electorate is not that divided. when you talk about african-americans or muslims, women were already fleeing donald trump because of that. >> you bridge up some great points about what he said in the past. i said two months before the first republican vote was cast, i could never vote for donald trump because of a muslim ban.

then i said it was disgirlfriending because of what he said about david duke. >> that should have stopped you right there, everybody. >> the moral preening i have seen from republicans in the past couple days has been sickening. >> you bring up a great point. >> why weren't they offended back in december? >> go to the first day of the campaign when he said some mexican immigrants are rapists. that's day one of the campaign. going to him attacking a p.o.w. and saying he's not really a hero. go to him going after the khan family. so many points along the road where you could have been indignant morally. >> what the experts tell me is republicans that are freeing, john mccain and jeb bush and people talking about their wives and daughters, they didn't see their wives and daughters when he was talking about immigrants, muslims. they thought maybe their neighbors, the people who work for them, but they didn't see their families. now we have this idea he's going after women, groping white women. that could be my daughter. that empathy issue is

problematic. >> which makes me wonder where democrats were, and i wondered in the 1990s when a young woman who was 23, 23, was exploited by the president of the united states. and i will tell you, i heard men all around the capitol, i heard men on tv, i heard men who contributed money to bill clinton, wllaughing about how tt guy, he can get away with anything. i thought to myself, do these guys not have young daughters? >> here's one difference. >> there is no difference. >> we read about the cigar. here's the difference. >> he did it. and donald trump talked about it. >> if we heard him saying, video, oh, i'm going to take this cigar. there is a visceral difference. >> we have kids. >> i'm just saying. i'm not going to say that. >> you just did. >> if we visually saw or heard from his words -- >> you're saying if he had been with billy bush in a hot mike, it would -- history would have been different? >> yes. yes. >> donny, we have to leave it

there. >> we have kids. >> okay. >> kids are watching. >> donny, thank you, i think. >> and i heard so many men, and it was sickening at the time, laughing about how he could get away with anything. >> we'll be looking for your piece. in today's "new york times"? >> coming up in the 9:00 a.m. hour, you'll hear from mike pence. he joins msnbc. >> much calmer than this just was. >> trying to make sense of last night's debate and the whole weekend that was. >> i think donny is still doing what he did in the '90s. t it's a manufacri job. yeah, welle is doing a lot ofool things digitally to help machines communicate, mit wawao at lstntion that. m building does that at you?es. no! don't be silly. i'm just, uh, going to go to chop se wood. with that? yeah we don't have an ax or firlace.

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it a profr who ver sts being a student? is it a cagiver determinedto ? is it a lifete of work that blazes path to yo pon your personasuccess takea financiapartner who values it as much as you do. all right, we have some kids here. you cover your ears because we're talking politics. over the weekend, many more endorsements for hillary clinton came out. cover your ears, children. and this morning, foreign policy magazine writes in its first ever political endorsement, quote, the litany of reasons trump poses such a threat is so long that it is shocking that

he's the major party's candidate for the presidency. we'll talk about all these other things that i can't say right now. next, we'll bring in the "washington post's" eugene robinson and hallie jackson live from the debate site. don't miss it. close your ears. and why a pro foball team chose tdelive fiand why a leading car bran thcounts on uso keep eir deal nwork streamlined and go ahead, spoil urur. businesses count on communication,nd cnicati counts on nturylink. it ja the es and es id. this ithe pursuit of perfeion. knows how iteels to see younuergo up,es despite your best efforts.

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joining us now, pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. and from st. louis, nbc news correspondent hallie jackson who is covering the trump campaign. hallie, what are you hearing this morning from the trump people? >> hey, guys. listen, you're seeing, i think, that kellyanne conway did a masterful job on your show, other shows of summing up where the trump campaign is publicly, that is essentially trying to declare victory, to double down on the strategy we saw last

night. the bannon-esque strategy that you saw when you saw these women emerge in st. louis. what am i hearing from other publicans? one top operarerative tells me think the agent of change has just lost his advantage with this move. what is interesting to me, continuing on to say it was a hail mary, essentially. what was also interesting to me, jeff sessions, senator sessions who i spoke with last night on the camp of washington university, i said when did you know that women like paula jones and juanita broadwalk were going to come here, and he laughed and said when i turned on the tv and saw it with everything else. this was a move that was planned with intentional surprise to try to rattle hillary clinton. i think there are some question marks that we will have answered over the next 24 to 48 hours as to how other republicans are going to be reacting to this. particularly vulnerable down

ballot senators. >> it's fascinating. hallie jackson, thank you very much. gene, first, just go. what's your gut? >> my gut is that on friday, probably cooked the race. this deal is probably done. donny deutsch said something earlier that i can't believe anyone would argue with, which is that there's a difference between reading so-and-so said this and somebody else saying somebody did that. and hearing and seeing the principal. donald trump, it enters your head in a totally different way. and so, you know, i think the question now is how bad the damage is to the rest of the republican party. and last night, i don't think did a lot to make republicans feel better about their prospects. you know, it may cause some

hesitation among republicans so were going to jump ship today. they might be more reluctant to do that now. not because they don't think it's the right thing to do. just because they think he shored up the base last night. he didn't get a single incremental vote last night. he didn't get anybody new. anybody new. not one. >> i don't say anything unequivocal anymore. >> by the way, i covered banana republ republics, places where the new president tried immediately to put his predecessors and the brithe previous administration in jail. that's not where the country wants to be. i was shocked when he said that. >> we heard the same thing we heard. a lot of people voting for donald trump are doing so because they so dislike hillary clinton. to me, watching last night was a pep rally for those people. a guy standing onstage, going after hillary clinton in a way they could only dream about as they have disliked her for so

long. >> he has them excited. i wish she would have gotten them excited. some of them might have come over, but here we are just down the street from ferguson, no mention of policing and race. no mention of climate change. no mention -- we couldn't talk about the issues, on and on. >> by the way, hard to be the change candidate when you're talking about stuff that happened 20 years ago. >> involving the other candidate. it's a mess. it's a mess. >> involving the other candidate's husband. >> the damage being done to the republican party and to the clinton campaign -- i mean. mind boggling. >> i open up this quote, but democracy is a word, the real gist of which still sleeps. last night, we found ourselves ipa moment where walt whitman is turning over in his grave. >> that does it for us this morning. mike pence joins stephanie ruhle straight ahead. stephanie picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle.

this morning, down and dirty debate. accusations and insults fly. donald trump's attacks on hillary clinton over her husband. >> never been knbld in the history of politics in this nation that's been so abusive to women. >> this after his bizarre press conference with bill clinton accusers just before the debate began. >> hillary clinton hitting back over that lewd tape of trump. >> but i think it's clear to anyone who heard it that it represents exactly who he is. >> that was locker room talk. >> the revelations trump admits he may not have paid federal taxes for years. >> did you use that $960 million loss to avoid paying personal federal tax snz. >> of course, i did. >> his muslim ban has changed. >> the muslim ban is something that in some form has morphed into an extreme vetting.