of donald trump and hillary clinton in this entire whack-a-doodle campaign online. so on behalf of myself and donny deutsch, sayonara. "hardball" with chris matthews is next. . to the bitter end. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. with 29 days to go, donald trump is clearly going to tough it out, facing a lot of defections and calls to drop out over the weekend. trump's campaign took an aggressive turn sunday night, holding a surprise press avail, just an hour before the debate with former president clinton's accusers. there they are. they also tried to stage a televised confrontation with the former president, which was averted by the commission on presidential debates itself at the last minute.

in the debate itself, trump called hillary clinton a liar, of course, and he said she had hate in her heart, or does. he called her the devil at one point. he said if he had his way, she'd be in jail. well, we know all of that. today a new national poll shows a lot of people know that too. it was completed after the release of that "access hollywood" tape. it shows that the bottom could be falling out of the trump campaign. catch these numbers. the latest nbc/"wall street journal" poll shows that clinton has jumped to an 11-point lead in that four-way race. it's clinton with 46. trump with 35. 11 points back. johnson with just 9%. but trump today doubled down on his attacks on former president bill clinton, threatening to go even further if more damaging tapes on him are made public. let's watch. >> bill clinton sexually assaulted innocent women and hillary clinton attacked those women viciously. one of them said, more viciously than he attacked them.

if they want to release more tapes, saying inappropriate things, we'll continue to talk about bill and hillary clinton doing inappropriate things. there are so many of them, folks. you probably saw yesterday. we brought four wonderful women to st. louis. and honestly, it was both very beautiful and very sad. >> wow. he's poetic. on a conference call with republican lawmakers today, house speaker paul ryan said he would no longer defend nor campaign with donald trump. that's the speaker of the house, a republican. instead, ryan says he plans to focus on down-ballot races. and while he told his members to do what's best for themselves, he did not rescind his endorsement of trump. it's hard to read what he's actually saying. anyway, trump today lashed out at ryan, tweeting, paul ryan should spend more time on balancing the budget, jobs, and illegal immigration and not

waste his time on fighting the republican nominee. well, the message from the trump campaign to the republican party itself today couldn't be clearer. you're either with us or against us, this is every man for himself, according to the party. joining me right now is matt schlapp, chairman of the american conservative union. heidi prezbyla and cornell washington. i want to start with cornell on these numbers. can you tell if these numbers are outliers. an 11-point spread for hillary now. that's hard to catch up with. >> it's part o of a trend. when you look at the nbc/"wall street journal" poll, at least from the internal standpoint, she's continuing with a big advantage among women, but his lead among men is thinking. he's always made this thing, he's going to win with men. but his lead among men right now are only two tor three points. it's continuing to slide and head in the wrong direction. >> is he doing any better with men, because of the sexual

nature of all this stuff that's coming out, is he doing even as well as mitt romney or john mccain among men? >> she's within two or three points within men. if barack obama was within two or three points with men, we would have had a reagan-like landslide in 2012. no, he's got to do better there. and it's an interesting number for me. this was a problem for john kerry. right now the majority of his voters right now say they're voting against her, not necessarily for him. a plurality of her voters are saying they're voting for her. >> heidi, that explains the strategy. trash the clintons and keep trashing them to keep their base together. >> yeah, the republicans have been trying to warn him all along, though, that the one thing he had to do, if he wanted to expand off of that base last night, he had one goal. and that goal was to come in in light of this videotape and show total contrition. and he didn't do it. he -- >> do you think that would have worked? come on? >> it was the only hope of making it work. i'm skeptical that it would have

worked. but it was the only way. >> middle of the road, nanby panbies, say just apologize again. everybody's always apologizing in this business. but the bottom line, the people he would have apologized to, the moderate suburbanites, would they have changed their minds about trump if they were watching that video? >> i think he handled it in the right way. it was the first time he's apologized in this campaign. >> he apologized last night for what? >> he apologized in the tape before, reiterated it in the debate and moved on. >> how do you do this? >> stop! that's totally below the belt! >> did you actually hear him apologize? >> yes. >> did you sense a sentiment of shame there with him? >> i don't know if it was shame -- >> or like a p.o.w. saying, okay, i got my fingers crossed. >> as he said in his video apology -- >> i didn't hear any -- >> he says he needs to be a better man and i think that's the right way to take it. both of these campaigns are doing the same thing. they're both attacking the other because their negatives are so high. and we can go through all these polls. the polls are going to be bad

for trump for a while here. >> i'm not a huge believer in black and white and all of these things, so you're not going to get me on that one, because i agree with you. at a rally today, hillary clinton slammed trump for what he said about women in that tape. she's not letting him off as if it's all behind him. that's what the left used to say. >> move on. >> during heidi -- not heidi, during lewinsky. >> that's going to really help my career. >> total ridiculous slip. let's go! you're here! let's go. let's watch this thing. i'm getting, >> now, i'll tell you what! donald trump spent his time attacking when he should have been apologizing. last night when he was pressed about how he behaves, he just doubled down on his excuse that it's just locker room banter. well, i'll tell you what. women and men across america

know that is just a really weak excuse for behaving badly. and mistreating people. in turn, donald trump blamed the media, of course, for ignoring bill clinton's accusers, comparing them -- or comparing clinton to ted kennedy and chappaq chappaqua. >> the hypocrites in the media don't want to talk about what hillary clinton has done to these victims. they don't want to talk about what their other political leaders have done to other innocent girls and women. people like kennedy, chapquitic, we remember that, driving his car into a pond instead of driving the police. possibly saving her life. in fact, almost definitely being able to save her life. he went home and went to sleep. did not report the incident to the police for ten hours. yet he was hailed as a hero. >> well, that's about as far back and as deep as you can go

in the cutting world, don't you think, matt? does it get worse than this? we're going back to 1969. >> i'm amazed how many people who are younger than me don't even know bill clinton was impeached. they're not that political, always, the millennials, they don't know how that's happened. >> how's it happen that bill clinton gets impeached, the only president since andrew jackson to get impeached. is because they think he's innocent? >> it's called low unemployment and growing wages. >> don't be dismissive to the women he abused. that's not fair. he did terrible things. >> listen, we're not going to have a conversation about him abusing women, when -- >> yeah, we are. that's what we're talking about. >> to move away from what trump has been doing. i've got to tell you -- >> can we just straighten this out. i'm not sure what you meant there. i think it has to be very carefully stated for interest of decency and respect for women and misbehavior when you see it, either party. and that is that i think people judge presidents, say watergate, for example, watergate was

really a function not so much of political misbehavior, which there was, clearly breaking in and covering it up, but that stuff has gone on before. it's we were in terrible economic times, people were so angry, they wanted to blame nixon a lot. they threw -- >> but it was also mitigated. >> well, clinton, they weren't that angry at clinton because because the economy was doing well. >> he won an election around some of that. the voters made a decision about this. >> they thought the republicans overdid it. if they had censured him and moved on -- >> he did something serious, whether you're impeached or censure -- >> what did clinton do? >> he lied under oath about attacking paula jones. >> you're looking incredulous. >> is it okay to -- >> no! but why is it okay to go along with some of the things that donald trump has said when what bill clinton did with so offensive that it even led to the investigation and led to his impeachment. so i just think that there is a certain reckoning that people in

the party, you know -- >> first of all, i believe that every time hillary clinton gets attacked for this, i've been through this in so many ways, every time hillary clinton gets attacked on that stuff, it's very hard to assign blame to her. you can argue she helped in some way to cover-up, but you have to prove that. nobody has ever proved that. they've never proved she had something to do with covering up bill clinton's behavior -- >> just a minute. let's get the facts straight. i believe that she called juanita brodericks and said, thank you for your support. she didn't threaten her? >> juanita says she threatened her. >> with what? >> the fact if she went public against her husband, there would be repercussions. that's a fact. >> it's the fact that she made an allegation. just like there's a lot of allegations against trump. bottom line is, bill clinton's not on the ballot. >> he's not on the ballot. i don't know how you win with this. listen, all due respect to you,

but how do you win with this? how do you win talking about bill clinton over a decade -- >> how does this -- >> this does not help -- >> we've been through this before. in 1998, the republicans threw the book at bill clinton and they went through fantastic advantages in the next election in '98. and hillary clinton runs for the senate of new york, walks into a state she hadn't been living in and becomes the united states senator. you can't just throw these little things -- >> it is new york. >> she won! >> yes, she did. >> let's -- >> i think -- >> let's talk about politics. >> can i radio i to make the point -- >> that's what i'm -- >> you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars in research on what hillary clinton before, because they knew she was going to run. and the thing that they learned from that hundreds of thousands of dollars of research is the one thing you didn't want to go after her on was this bill clinton stuff, because it brought out great anonymity among -- >> let's -- >> i don't understand this is where we are -- >> it does not help! >> it's the right kind of debate and let each person talk. >> yes. >> let's do it -- let's give an example to all debate moderators now, right?

>> can i go? >> is this going to be the issue that brings donald trump back to life? >> no. donald trump can only win if he talks about the economy. >> okay. >> defeating terrorism and upending washington. >> heidi, is this within the bounds of a reasonable public discussion? >> not -- >> talking about hillary? >> not a few weeks before the -- i think the american voters would not think that this is what they want to hear, the discussion they want to be having. >> on either side. >> on either side. >> you can't resist, can you? >> i'm sorry. >> cornell? >> no! i mean, there's not -- listen, there's not a woman -- a white woman, college-educated, in the philadelphia suburbs who he needs to win who's going to say, you know what, you're right on this and i'm going to vote for you because of this. there's not one -- >> just explain to me. i think you're right, but why are you right? >> because that's not their issue. they've mitigated that. guess what, they voted for bill clinton. they're concerned about their pocketbook issues and they're concerned about gender equity issues. they're not concerned about -- >> i just interrupted you. here's an anthropological question.

bill clinton's one of the most popular people in the world. carville says it all the time, but he's a bill clinton supporter, but he is. i've been in places like ireland with him. he's loved. why is he loved despite the public record of his misbehavior? whether it's all true or some of it's true or a third of it's true, something's there. why does that not hurt bill clinton in the public mind? >> it's two-part. it's partly because of who bill clinton is as a politician, that he was able to do what neither donald trump or hillary clinton did last night on the debate stage, which is to make a really genuine, heartfelt connection with voters. and he came -- bill clinton is the american dream. he came from nothing to become -- to hold the highest office in the land. and i think, also, secondly, people have fond memories of a better time in terms of the economy, as well. the 1990s were undoubtedly -- undisputably, a growth era for people. >> i think it also -- >> for bad luck voterlue collar. >> he kept coming back. this protestant idea, we all

sin, we all fail, we all ask for forgiveness and keep coming back. it's catholic, too. the one thing last night that got to me. i'm a complete sentimentalist about politics, when something wonderful happens. i thought what she said about the trump kids were night. but what he said to her was so fundamental, the fighter. i don't think donald trump could say something better about anybody than they're fighters. it blew me away. it's almost what you say when you have lost. cornell? when you say something so profoundly good about your opponent, when you've been sort of potty mouth through the last couple of days. and out of this potty mouth comes this really wonderful accolade. >> but that's the difference. going back to bill clinton, bill clinton made that mistake, but that's not what defines bill clinton. that mistake doesn't define bill clinton -- >> what mistake are you talking about? >> what he got impeached for. >> you think that's his only mistake in that department? >> well -- well, that's not all

that defines him. there's little other than scandal and demagoguery that defines donald trump. >> oh, gosh, you just can't have it that way. it's got to work both ways. give grace to both people. when they've done stupid things and done terrible things to women, it's not everything. >> it's not equal. i don't think it's anywhere equal to what wbill clinton has done with his life and what donald trump has done. >> everybody the same question, answer it or no answer. when we elect our president, we don't just elect the head of government, like a prime minister. we elect the president, which is a democratically elected monarch, in a sense. they represent the head of the country. that's why we give them a white house and respect the first lady and the kids, because it represents our country. does everything matter? or just their public policy positions? does all that matter? >> yes. >> so what happens on the bus matter? >> it gets played in -- >> does everything matter, bill clinton's behavior in and out of his marriage? >> it all matters, but you've got to assign weight. >> so it's a small part.

>> i didn't say small. but the more important part -- >> does it all matter? >> everything matters when you're running for president. >> that's what i think. i think it's like unlike being a senator or a congressman, and that's why the inspection and the terrible digging and the oppo research is so intense and we'll get to this at the end of the show. trump should have known this was coming. he should have known somebody knew about that tape. he should have made more friends on the way up. if you're not nice to people on your way up, they're going to kill you on your way down. an old showbiz thick. heidi przybyla, interesting positions you're taking here. last night, trump fired up his base and did enough to stop the bleeding, i think, and clinton showed she can withstand trump's worst attacks. she was charming, she was happy, even when confronted with bill clinton's accusers. but a month ago before the election, it is a month after tomorrow, the race is very much hillary clinton's to lose. look at these numbers.

plus, many women who watched last night's debate saw trump n engaging in the worst sort of gender politics, threatened to put her in jail, and fit into a larger pattern of punishing women. we just talked about that. cornell talked about those suburban women and how they're going to react to this punishing ordeal that hillary clinton's going through here. this is "hardball," the place for politics. g to make this as e as posblfor you. you can go ahead and stick with that complicated credit card that limits where you earn bus cash back. or... you can get the quicksilver card from capital one. quicksilver earns you unlimited 1.5% cash back on ev-e-ry purchase, ev-e-ry-where. i shouldn't have to ask. what's in your wallet? safety doesn't come in a box. it's not a banner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then.

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welcome back to "hardball."

donald trump scored points last night among his base of supporters, who cheered on his attacks against hillary clinton. well, by throwing out the red meat and hammering clinton, trump also, well, did he expand the pool of support he needs to win the white house? did he win the moderate republicans. clinton seemed unphased by trump's attacks the whole nights, and interruptions didn't bother her, and she never took the bait when he tried to bait her, instead, choosing to ignore the republican nominee, laugh at him a lot, and for the most part, pivoting to her positions on the issues. let's watch her tactic here. >> please allow her to respond. she didn't talk while you talked. >> yes, that's true, i didn't. >> because you have nothing to say. >> i didn't in the first debate, and i'm going to try not to in this debate, because i would like to get to the questions that the people have brought here tonight to talk to us about. >> and get off this question. >> okay, donald. i know you're into big diversion tonight, anything to avoid talking about your campaign and the way it's exploding and the way republicans are leaving you, but -- >> let's see what happens --

>> allow her to respond. >> let's focus on the issues that people care about tonight. let's get to their questions. >> according to a cnn/orc of debate watchers, hillary clinton won the debate, beating trump 57-34%. did he pick up new voters? win over female swing voters in places like the philadelphia suburbs, or did he just stop the bleeding over the fallout from his lewd comments about his treatment of women? joan walsh is with "the nation," and also an msnbc analyst. and steve cortez is an adviser to the trump campaign. i want to start with steve about this. because i sort of agree with the way that phrase, that leading question, we opened, phrased it. i think he stopped the bleeding. i think he showed he was alive and a fighter. all the rough language, and i would say bad manners, of course, continue. but i thought he showed he was alive and not dead, the most important thing he had to do tonight.

i don't think he picked up moderates or moved into the center politically or found people that didn't like him before are going to like him now. i think he was donald trump last night. your thoughts? >> well, i would like to think, chris, that he did both, but the first, most important task was, you're exactly right, was triage. we had to stop the bleeding. we had a bad friday, a bad saturday. but you know what, on sunday, he showed us that he is, indeed, a fighter. i know you complimented him or he complimented hillary clinton on being a fighter. he shows that he is a fighter. he got off the mat and he roared back to life. so i think that's number one, as we stop the bleeding. number two now is, we have to win over those moderate voters, those undecide voters that you're talking about. i think he started to make that case and i think what he did forcefully is make the case that hillary clinton is unfit to be the president of the united states. he did so with humor, he did so with force, and with examples. he brought up all the things he didn't bring up in the first debate that a lot of o supporters like us wanted him to. things like benghazi, like the e-mails, le the clinton foundation. i think it was a forceful indictment. he did stop the bleeding and we'll move forward from here in

convincing unconvinced voters. >> you know, joan, i've been following debates forever and like certain tactics and situations. hillary clinton was brilliant last night, she did exactly what she had to do, which was not to lose. and someone brought up the name ted kennedy, i don't like the way it was brought up, but it was brought up. when he was running for the senate and up against eddie mccormack and said, if your name was edward moore, you wouldn't be here. only your name kennedy got you here. anyone else would have attacked back. teddy was told, don't attack back, they'll feel for you, understand you're not attacking back, and you'll win. hillary knew he was going to throw the kitchen sink at her. and hillary clinton never -- i know i shouldn't talk about a woman's appearance, but it was spectacular last night. she looked great, spoke incredibly confidently. everything about her was poised, everything about her was presidential. and she laughed. churchill used to say, i like people who can grin when they fight. she grinned.

she grinned like davey crockett at this guy, like a bear, you know? she laughed at him! it must have driven trump crazy. >> i'm sure it did. >> i think it was a spectacular performance by her, even though trump probably saved himself a couple more weeks in this candidacy. your thoughts? take over here. >> well, sure. i think that right mow, chris, it's not really only a matter of our opinion, did he win, did she win, did he stop the bleeding? yes, he got a tourniquet, but didn't stop the bleeding. i think we've got some empirical evidence now that shows who did what. he needed the to do two things. he needed to bring back some republican leadership, republican office holders, some of those candidates who fled there him. and he needed to bring in women, as you and steve, and i think we all agree, needs to do that. he did neither. we know today, it's only gotten worse. paul ryan came out and said, it's every man for himself. i'm not going to campaign for him or with him, and you should all go vote your conscience, as ted cruz once said. and that cnn poll you talked about, the even more interesting

thing is, men actually thought hillary clinton won by about ten points. women thought she won by 34 points. so he did not convince won, in my opinion, moderate republican women, our classic woman in the philadelphia suburbs who might have been on the fence. i don't think he brought anyone to his side with that stalking around, stalking her, looking menacing behind her. and humiliating her or trying to, because he didn't do it, with her husband -- with these women that have made these allegations against her husband. >> let's talk about this -- i'm sorry to interrupt. >> go ahead. >> i want a comment from steve. i could -- every time -- it's almost like what al gore did. he -- why is trump lining up behind her every time she's speaking? it seems something out of the davin davinci code. i couldn't get it. why was he there behind her? >> look, you can put a camera anywhere you want and get that kind of angle. >> but watch him, he walks with her. >> he does, steve.

he does. >> i think you're trying to read too much into that. >> don't you know when somebody's standing behind you. can't you sense the presence of somebody behind you. why was he standing right behind her? it's a simple question. you say it didn't look that way. we've got pictures to show it. >> my point is, look, the mainstream media has done this throughout the campaign to us. >> here we go. one thing i'm not is the mainstream media. >> -- the most nefarious -- >> he was standing behind her. >> i would say this, regarding the office holders, speaker ryan and other republican office holders, when i was in junior high, my favorite book was "the outsiders," and we are the outsiders in this political movement. >> the numbers show that. >> washington, d.c., they're the socs and the hero of that group ended up being thegreasers. working class americans who have not participated in this very sluggish economy, they are sick and tired of a rigged crony capitalist system in washington,

d.c. that exists only for its own benefit. and what donald trump did yesterday is show those people that he is a fighter for them. against hillary clinton, against the washington establishment -- >> steve, i've got to say, whenever we use the term working class, we've got to throw in there white working class, because the black and latino and asian working class is not supporting donald trump. i'm not going to say it's about race or racism, but we need to be careful with that modifier, because a lot of working people, a lot of people who might be angry about their taxes or the cost of living or that they haven't got an raise in a few years, those people of color are with her. the white people tend to be with him. and we need, when this race is over, to talk about why this was. i personally think this race is over here. we'll have a lot of time to talk about how we got so bifurcated in this country that we can't use the term working class anymore. >> i've got end to now. i've got to ask you both. i love final questions. steve, you first. why'd they shake hands at the end of the debate, but not at the beginning. >> i don't know.

>> joan, do you have a theory? >> i think trump wanted to shake hands at the end. i think he thought he had a good close last night, and i think he came on not so great, but at the end of this second debate, he knew how to debate a lot better. i think that's why he was feeling better about shake hands. >> i agree. and i will, i never -- i don't think i've ever said anything nice about him on your show, chris, but i will say, if he campaigned like that man we saw in the last minute who gave her credit for her strength, if he could treat her as an equal and campaign eye to eye with her and say, we disagree, he would be running a much better campaign and it would be a lot closer, but he hasn't. but that last moment was impressive and the hand shake was all about cementing that feeling. >> joan, you're a fighter. >> i am. it's true. >> everybody ligkes being a fighter. >> steve's a fighter. >> thank you so much, joan walsh. a rare moment of common ground. even steve is silenced in his fervency. >> i'm not silenced.

i thought we were done. >> well, you are. what women saw from trump last night at the debate stage. for some saw him punishing women. his word, not mine. this is the place for politics. . (1940s aqua music) (burke) and we covered it, february third, twenty-sixteen. we've seen a thing or two. thing or two because ♪ we e farmers. b-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ but zzzquil is different have pain medicine cause why would you take a pain medicine when all you want is good sleep? zzzquil: a non-habit forming sleep-aid that's not for pain, just for sleep.

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went on the attack trying furnituto punish hillary last night, something he's done before. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle. >> the answer is there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> yeah. anyway, last night he threw the kitchen sink at hillary clinton. >> wikileaks, that just came out, and she lied. bernie sanders, between super delegates and debora wasserman schultz, he never had a chance, and i was so surprised to see him sign on with the devil. she has tremendous hate in her heart. >> i would never say anything like this. after months of hear supporters demand he lock her up, he made good on that and made this threat direct to hillary clinton's face. >> it's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> yeah, because you'd be in jail. >> secretary clinton -- >> this is like the taste of turkey the day after

thanksgiving. it's so unbelievable the second day. last night, it was all so much, but here we're getting pieces of it. i've never heard politicians talk like that. it was clear donald trump went on the defensive and he was looking to land some punishing blows, as well. and it's definitely not the first time he's publicly scolded the former miss universe, alicia machado, for gaining weight. there he is. he was putting this on television, showing her work out to get her weight down. all of that, by the way, calling her miss piggy. here we go. >> at one point, she was actually an eating machine, she was. someone said, gee, that's not a very nice thing to say, but it's true. she gained a tremendous amount of weight, but now she's losing it. >> oh my god. i'm joined by dana lash and progressive april ryan, as i said conservative. i think we ought to balance that out. do you mind that? >> you can do whatever you want to do. >> i'm just trying to get it straight. dana, why we always do this, every conservative gets tagged like a wild animal with some tag that says conservative on them.

everybody gets to be a free-thinking intellectual. what do you think about putting it all together? women should be punished for endorsing was his impulsive answer with me. this thing about if you gain an extra ten pounds, they'll put you on television and show you sweating it off. some of the treatment he's had, oh, towards rosie o'donnell, some of these other public -- does it add up to you, or not, dana? >> in terms of, i think these are all such incredible tli different issues. look, i've been incredibly critical of every particular candidate and i've caught he double hockey sticks for it too, chris. and with regards to the abortion question, because i thought that was a good discussion that you and he had, granted, as somebody that is pro-life, i don't ever want to punish a woman for a really heart breaking and heart-wrenching decision. if anything, you want to make it known that you're there for a woman and you're there to help out, you're there to support, you're there to help with adoption, you're there to help with whatever different needs. i know there were a lot of groups that had responses to

that, who have been in the trenches on this for a long time. with regards to alicia machado and the whole miss universe thing, i have never owned a corporate beauty pageant, but, chris, i will say this. if you are going to participate in a corporate beauty pageant, you have to realize that whether you like it or not, looks are part of the package. you're signing up and you're showcasing your fitness, you're showcasing your beauty. you get scholarship money. you get to travel around the world. it's like your job for that particular year. there are athletes who have to sign fitness -- they have fitness clauses in their contracts. >> yes, but that's not the issue. no one denies -- >> it's part of the package. >> nobody denies that looks are in many cases the chief element in a beauty contest, whether it's -- sometimes with the miss america, they throw in talent and all of this. but in the end, it' often a very attractive person. but putting her into a situation where there's cameras on her, sweating it off. did that show a certain attitude about how to deal with a situation that isn't, that is a professional public situation, but let's put her on the carpet,

get her on the ground and make her sweat it off, on camera. was that considerate? how would you call that? >> i don't know what i'd call it. i'd call it, why are we talking about a 20-year-old issue. because she didn't get this title in 1996? >> because the guy's never had a political job in his life and all we have is what he's done in business. what he's done in business. that's all we've got. april? that's all we've got on this guy. he has never done anything, passed a bill, governed a state, been a mayor. all we have are his public stuff and his tapes. your thoughts? >> his buildings with gold tone that glisten brightly in new york. it's, it's -- we need to see this, we need to know this, we need to know the billy bush conversations. we need to know about alicia machado, we need to know more about what he said in the fight with rosie o'donnell. we need to know more about what he thinks, especially when it comes to women and what he said to megyn kelly. women are a key piece of this society, of the economy. they're the biggest voting bloc. and for him to go against them

the way he has, i mean, having talking to you. he was basically going down a line that both political parties in this nation have been trying to walk carefully. he basically tried to say, it was criminal for a woman to have an abortion. who would be -- where would the owners fall? the doctor and the woman or the woman? he's going down a very dangerous road when it comes to women. he is not going to win talking like this and doing this. >> i want to go back to get the thinking of dana. what did you think of him when he went after the looks of carly fiorina, one of his opponents for president. going after her looks. what did you make of that? people don't do that. >> well, at the time, during the primary debate, i thought -- i'm not quite sure what this has to do with the -- with considering who's -- >> he's running for president! >> -- the republican nominee. >> why do you think -- what does it tell you about him that he would knock somebody's look, just how they were born, how god made them. what an amazing thing to attack. why would you attack somebody because of their looks? why would anybody do that if you think about it?

>> it's called self-esteem issues. >> i said at the time, i had no idea why that would even be brought up in a discussion -- >> he brought it up! >> -- in the republican primary. >> i know, that's what i said, on radio and tv at the time, and i even wrote something about it on my website. i don't see why that's even a consideration or why that was even a talking point in the primary. but, look, i mean, chris, we're here -- >> what language are you using here? it wasn't a talking point. it was something he said on stage in the heat of a debate, and that was his reaction -- >> yeah, i don't know why. if you're expecting me to own or defend any of these comments, i'm not going too. >> i'm trying to figure out what you think of them. >> i told you, it had no place in a primary discussion, or any kind of a discussion, why you would go after somebody's look. he didn't like it when people were criticizing his wife, other women don't like it if you go after their looks or criticize them. it's an open and shut kind of case. but we just had the second presidential debate last night, so why are we re-litigating what happened in the primary?

>> because he did it. he started it. >> he called her the devil last night. he called a candidate for president -- >> she called his supporters deplorables. >> but wait a minute, he was caught on tape, and we found out about this tape just a couple of days ago, and then to help bolster his confidence, he's got to find something on someone else that happened 20 or 30 years agos a and try to get his confidence, and put them on the stage, basically using those women, making them objects and products of people -- so people can look and say, oh, those poor women, and take it off -- the onus off of him. so there is an intrinsic problem that's common sense that we're dealing, as we're looking at this republican presidential nominee. >> i think he's down 36 points right now among suburban women. so it's not like -- >> suburban white women or -- >> i guess that's our code, like, inner city, suburban. these words are used interchangeably. perhaps not appropriate. [ laughing ] why is that funny? >> the code word, suburban,

urban. >> that's why we do it. >> both candidates have issues. >> thank you. >> you're not going to find anybody that's going to defend or own anything that was in the billy bush -- in the "access hollywood" take place. but here's the thing -- >> were you offended last night, as a woman? were you offended last night as a woman? >> about what? about the debate? what was there to be offended about during the debate last night? >> let me just say this. african-american congresswoman marcia fudge, who is a democrat. she was one of the former heads of a national sorority, delta sigma theta, said she could not sleep last night. she woke up in the middle of the night because she was so distraught about how she -- hillary clinton was attacked, how women were paraded for the benefit of donald trump. i'm just asking, what did you feel? >> at the debate? i don't -- i don't think that hillary clinton was bullied at the debate last night. i don't think that there was an attack on women during the debate last night. >> to say for the first time

ever -- >> i don't think that she's going to be bullied be someone. >> -- a president -- this is the first time ever a woman is a nominee and for a man to say that he would put the female nominee in jail if she -- if he is elected president, that's a whole different -- >> when are we going to stop playing the "war on women" card. we've got a female nominee, that's great. i think that in a certain way disproves the war on women. >> we have to agree to disagree. >> there's another side to yelling, "lock her up." thank you, dana lash for coming on, and april ryan, thank you. up next, with paul ryan cutting trump lose, and he sure did today, and the bottom falling out of the trump numbers, the "hardball" roundtable is coming here to tell us where things are going from here. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. hat hat military service goes into my family pretty far back. that makes you more proud to be an american and more proud to be a veteran. i served in iraq in tikrit in 2009. when i took the ancestry dna test, i mean a few results came up that were really shocking. 11% of me cos from the part where i had served.

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well, hillary clinton and donald trump are holding the competing rallies right now, trump's in wilkes-barre, pennsylvania, while clinton's in columbus, ohio. welcome back to "hardball." anyway, the republican party seems on the verge of open civil war tonight over its

presidential nominee, with speaker paul ryan now saying he will no longer defend donald trump nor show up with him in any situation for politics. it comes after dozens of congressional republicans abandoned their nominee during the most tumultuous weekend in trump's campaign, as of yet. well, donald trump's debate performance last night only created more uncertainty. how does the republican party navigate the final four weeks of this campaign. i'm joined with tonight's roundtable. molly balz is a staff writer for the atlantic. andrew sullivan is contributing editor for "new york" magazine, and ely stoegels is a reporter for politico. so i guess the question is, here are we going from here, ely? we're in the stretch. >> straight to the bottom. i think there's liberation for donald trump after a two-week free fall, and after the scandal he's been in and seeing the erosion of support over the weekend. there's liberation. he's free of a lot of these burdens. not like he was ever -- >> free because he knows he can't win? >> now he's playing the bill clinton card. i think that's part of it. he's in the bunker, you saw a very breitbarty debate last

night. so he's in this bunker right now, and when he's attacked, he attacks back, and i think what's that we're going to see. >> breitbart, bannon -- >> yeah, right-wing, fringe, conspiracy theory stuff. and that's what we're going to see. he says if she wants to go there and there are more tapes released, i'll keep bringing up juanita broderick, paula jones -- >> this could go back to the clinton chronicles. we could be back with the murder charges. >> isn't this the worst for the republican party. >> i don't think we've ever seen a guy realize unless he throws everything at the opponent, he doesn't have a prayer of surviving with dignity. i think this is trump's effort to maintain something. >> he needs to attack. when he's feeling vulnerable, the only way -- he can't acknowledge error. he can't be calm and sit and reflect. he has to double down and increase the attacks on the other person. for more, it seems like the republican party has the worst of all possible worlds. if he was really flaming out last night, pence could step in or there could be some moment in

which they could fix this. but last night what he did was really shore up his base, really well. i mean, if you're for trump, last night must have felt euphoric. because all those things you've always wanted to say to her face, finally -- >> your face right now, you're simulating it, it's the hatred of hillary, the hatred of bill, the hatred of the democratic and republican establishment, the hatred of all the cultural leaders. and here's a guy just throwing crap at them for an hour and a half. >> and if you despise the elites in this country, if you despise the moderators in the media, if you despise republicans, this was fantastic for them. he really solidified his base. but for those swing voters and for the republicans in those swing seats, this is a nightmare. >> charlie dent from lehigh valley, when i heard him, i go, i know what's going on. he's the bellwether. that is the swing part of pennsylvania that is the key state that trump needs to win with. and it's not a good sign that he dropped off yesterday. >> the problem is that not only is trump ginning up the base at

the expense of all of the potential persuadable voters, he's ginning them up against the establishment. he's practically encouraging republican-based voters to vote against the down-ticket republicans. >> is he forming a new political party? >> i have no idea. i have >> i have no idea. i have a firm policy of never predicting what donald trump will do next. >> it's not to join the republican party. >> that's right. you're giving me an incredibly profound look. the roundtable is sticking with us. this is "hardball," the place for politics. are creating a stronger economy and the right environment in new york state for business to o rive. let us help grow your company's tomorrow- today at business.ny.gov

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we're back with the hardball roundtable. eli, tell me something i don't know. >> the private polling shows that republican senate candidates may as well be finished. the senate majority is gone and they are looking at missouri as a race that they may be about to lose as well as pennsylvania and a lot of other ones. >> i agree with you. every close race could go democrats. yours? >> the strong of the wind of the pound, brexit, trump is ruining their economy and future. maybe that will be brought to bear before this election is over. >> any chance of another vote over there in britain? >> i don't think so right now. >> okay. >> i have a piece in our new print issue, a profile of one of the dear broken hearted conservatives trying to pick up the pieces. we'll be right back after this.

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when we return, my election diary for tonight, october 10th, and where this race stands after last night's presidential debate.

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election diary monday, october 10th, 2016. with the election for president just a month from tomorrow, it's impossible to ignore the power of the new nbc poll numbers. hillary clinton holds a

double-digit lead at 46%. donald trump is down at 35%. hardly a third of the voters. if that number holds to election day, trump will finish worse than barry goldwater, both of whom won 38%. unlike those two candidates, the trump is losing not because of his bad ideas. it's he who finds himself in an electoral free fall. what causes all of this is obvious. the tape. didn't mr. trump notice that the sign over to the national archives for all to see, the past is prologue. elections are won and lost with opposition research, that the first thing a hopeful candidate needs to do is hire a hot shot researcher to dig into himself to confront personally and beforehand what the public will get to do when the race gets close. maybe mr. trump knew all of

this, could even see it coming. what else are we to make of his admission on this show in 1988 in the heat of the lewinsky scandal, quote, you think about him with the women, how about me with the women? can you imagine? didn't he realize when he suddenly decided to run that what we're getting into is part of the bitter end? that's "hardball" for now and it really is hardball. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- gop panic. new polling shows donald trump in free fall following the "access hollywood tape". >> if they want to release more tapes, we'll continue to talk about bill and hillary clinton doing inappropriate things. >> as down ballot republicans try to stop the bleeding, did trump do anything last night to help his standing with