north carolina, mike pence will be in florida for two events there. bill clinton will be making two stops in ohio and his daughter chelsea will be in pittsburgh. >> and that's a wrap for us on this friday, i'm alex witt alongside betty nguyen and >> it reminds us of stories we've heard from our mothers and grandmothers about how back in their day the boss could say and do whatever he pleased to the women in the office and even though they worked so hard, jumped over every hurdle to prove themselves, it was never enough. we thought all of that was ancient history, didn't we? and so many have worked for so many years to end this kind of violence and abuse and disrespect, but here we are in 2016, and we're hearing these exact same things every day on the campaign trail. we are drowning in it. >> if you want to hear the best

case for hillary clinton, you want to hear the very real stakes in this election, i would advise you to link up to michelle's speech from earlier today in new hampshire. she was pretty good. i mean, that's why you get married to improve your gene pool so your kids end up being superior to you. >> we were just talking. willie asked how many points do we think barack obama would be up if he were in this race. >> 20 i think we said it. >> gene, they would have put the mercy rule in effect. >> come on in. game is over. >> have ice cream and forget this one. >> let's get some pizza. it's all over. >> you guys vote now. i was trying to think about any

historical precedent to having two of the greatest speakers, political speakers, in america being from the same family because that's what we saw last night by the end of president obama's speech, you were left with no conclusion other than the two most effective speakers in america. >> do you have to go back to jfk and jackie? was jackie a good public speaker? >> she was not. >> bobby -- it took bobby a while. >> he was not a natural. >> he really wasn't until extraordinary moments like his indianapolis speech. but he wasn't a natural. michelle obama what's so remarkable about michelle obama is we hear time and time again she doesn't like politics.

it is a good thing for the rest of the democratic party that michelle obama does not like politics because it would be, like, okay, everybody move down to the end of the bench. the first lady is going to be running. she is fantastic. >> she -- i think visibly was not wild about this political thing at first. obviously she has warmed to it. she's learned to -- that was i think bill clinton called it the best speech of the campaign. he might be right. it was a great speech. >> she gave that great speech in philly at the democratic convention where she really made the case for hillary clinton in a way that none of hillary clinton's other surrogates have managed to. >> do you know who she made the case for? she made the case for america. i remember cheering for michelle obama. this is weird. what's going on here?

she spoke for americans. >> i liken last night's speech was harder. a harder speech to give because it was such a personal intimate subject that to give it without sounding self indulgent in any way but to stand up for american women and women and girls and families everywhere in the way that she did, this is a tricky subject. this whole issue of sexual abuse and harassment is hard to talk about. hard for men to talk about. hard for women to talk about. she did it in a way that was articulate and thoughtful and emotional but without being over the top. >> she brought everybody along. >> everyone would have listened to that and said that's how i feel. >> one of the things that drove me so crazy about a lot of republican candidates this past year is they were so preprogrammed. you could tell they were reading from speeches that had been

churned through. the giant political machines, the focus groups, poll tested lines. michelle obama tackled a difficult topic yesterday and made it work extraordinarily well because you could tell it was coming from her heart and that there was nothing calculated about it. this wasn't to help hillary clinton. this wasn't to help her husband's legacy. this wasn't to promote herself. this was about her daughters, and this was about my daughter. it was about your daughter. it was about daughters and mothers and women all across america. >> i think also the benefit any first lady has is they're not in the day-to-day political fight so when they make a speech like this, it has an impact. doesn't feel like you're hit over the head with politics. she talked more at an event in manchester, new hampshire, yesterday.

let's listen. >> the fact is that in this election, we have a candidate for president of the united states who over the course of his lifetime and the course of this campaign has said things about women that are so shocking, so demeaning that i simply will not repeat anything here today. and last week we saw this candidate actually bragging about sexually assaulting women. i can't believe that i'm saying that a candidate for president of the united states has bragged about sexually assaulting women. and i have to tell you, that i can't stop thinking about this. it has shaken me to my core in a way that i wouldn't have predicted. this is not something that we can ignore. it's not something we can just sweep under the rug as just another disturbing footnote in a

sad election season because this was not just a lewd conversation. this wasn't just locker room banter. this was a powerful individual speaking freely and openly about sexually predatory behavior and actually bragging about kissing and groping women, using language so obscene that many of us were worried about our children hearing it when we turn on the tv. >> we'll obviously keep talking about that and a lot more. just to back up a bit, we got ahead of ourselves. it is friday, october 14th. mika is in the south of france or maybe it's parents' weekend. i don't know. you say south of france? then they see her at one of her daughter's colleges. joining me, we have washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay and msnbc

political analyst, eugene robinson. willie, the race obviously it's been a tumultuous two weeks with the tape coming out last friday, the weekend, the debate, and then just this chaotic week that's ensued. and then we have swing state polls that are really sort of hard to follow. hard to pick up a trend because there are some states, ohio, trump ahead, north carolina, it's basically margin of error and others where hillary clinton is moving in front. >> hard to believe it was one week ago today that "access hollywood" tape has come out. donald trump has a slight edge in the state of ohio according to the nbc/"wall street journal" poll. 42% to hillary clinton's 41%. that obviously within the margin

of aerror. the nbc/"wall street journal" poll out of north carolina has clinton up 45% to trump's 41%. a suffolk poll shows a closer race in north carolina. clinton, 45, donald trump, 43. and out west, a poll taken for the republican senate leadership fund in nevada hands clinton the advantage there 45% to trump's 39. ten points there in nevada for johnson. in utah, different candidate stirring y stirring up the race. trump has 34% to clinton's 28%. >> you look at the two main swing states surprising donald

trump is ahead even though it's margin of error over the last week or so. it does look like new hampshire is starting to slip away, slip out of trump's column. nevada, six points also as well. donald trump is up in utah but obviously republicans haven't lost utah since 1964. what do you see in all of the numbers? >> when you dig down into some of these polls a bit further what you see is the trend over the last week has been particularly college educated white women moving dramatically away from the democratic column -- i mean into the democratic column away from the republican column. and the double impact of that videotape and second debate and everything that we've seen over the last couple of days, although i suspect that's not quite in the polls yet, right, willie, but that is clearly having an impact. we've seen it in wisconsin, pennsylvania. you're seeing it there in new hampshire as well. it's that group of people. ohio is interesting.

i spent a couple days in ohio last week talking to steel workers who obviously are having a very rough time. a guy who had been a democratic his whole life who was just registered republican to vote for trump because he's doing it to save his job. i wouldn't be surprised if trump manages to hang on to ohio. there's quite a lot of those pockets of communities in ohio globalization has left them behind, they feel they've had a bad deal and don't trust her on trade. it's a state i think he can still win. >> we talk about kennedy. ohio has been such a tossup state for so long. since 1960. >> it's just that place. >> but mitt romney never really had a shot there. barack obama -- it was close -- but he was always three, four points ahead. it was solid. i remember republicans talking about ohio. you can tell it was solidly in barack obama's column. >> there was a level of

enthusiasm about obama there isn't about clinton. >> i think -- >> by the way, doesn't that tell republicans where they need to go four years from now? not with all of the parts of trump that obviously are offensive to college educated people but somebody not a mitt romney, not a john mccain, not a creature of washington, but somebody that can relate to steel workers. like ronald reagan did. >> exactly. speak to those people, you do better. >> start there. start there. your billionaires on wall street will come along. >> by the way, take a look at your array of policies and see if there are any that those people view as hostile to their interests and you may want to --

if you look at the whole array of the polls we've been seeing this week, to me what you see is that donald trump had to run the table. he's got to run the table in these swing states. and that looks like receding day by day by day because in some states -- in states where he was a little bit ahead. now she's a little bit ahead and in states where she was a little bit ahead, she's a lot ahead. that door is closing. >> to the point about college educated women, it's one thing to win over those white working class men in ohio, steel workers you talk to, but we had numbers out of the philadelphia suburbs where he's just getting destroyed by hillary clinton. if that's also true in columbus and cincinnati and suburbs, that's where he's in trouble. >> what we have to remember again is trend lines. if you take a poll on sunday before the monday debate, donald

trump was 14 points down. after the monday debate, he was seven points down. the question is -- what we have two weeks now? less than two weeks? >> three and change. >> god. when is it going to end? i thought -- >> did you see yesterday that americans are getting stressed by this election. i sympathize. >> you think? >> i guess that just really makes what i was going to say all the more relevant. we have a long way to go. >> we do have a long way to go. >> it went from 14 on sunday down to 7 on monday or tuesday down and so all of these polls are going to ebb and flow. the only thing i would say is if i were hillary clinton supporter is how is donald trump still ahead in ohio? what's going to happen? how do we keep the trend lines going.

obviously the trend lines look very good for her right now. harold wilson, a week is a lifetime in politics. >> and her strategy at the moment seems to be keep a fairly low profile. she hasn't got any public events scheduled until the debate next wednesday. >> pretty smart, right? >> she's out doing fund-raising. do no aharm. she's not great in big rallies so why do them? do no harm. keep your head down. and let the chaos that's happening in the trump campaign play out and carry on dripping his numbers down. >> the one caution and harold ford brought it up the other day sz a hillary clinton supporter, don't take your foot off the gas. donald trump still could -- he's got to pull some straits on the inside but he could still win the election. four corners offense can be dangerous sometimes but you hold the ball. >> you have to keep advancing.

by the same token, if trump is going to come out day after day after day and speak only to his base, alienate others, then you don't want to get in the way of that message. you want to keep moving forward. >> she's recording shows with ellen. that might be more effective to female audiences than doing another big rally in new hampshire which she's not particularly good at anyway. i don't think she's taking her foot off the gas. it's a question of targeting the way she's most effectively used and you don't have to do those big rallies. >> the question is, what impact is donald trump having on voters right now with an approach that is, as people say, peak trump, which he's trashing the media, he's trashing his own republican party, he's trashing the washington ruling class. he's trashing financiers in

rhetoric that some suggest is anti-semit anti-semitic. he's -- again, he's going all in here. i would not expect anybody around this table or with anybody that we know or anybody in washington, d.c. that is in sort of an influencer to think any of that is going to win him an election but katty kay, tell us what your friends were saying two days before brexit. i'm not drawing too many parallels. i just would be surprised if there aren't -- if there isn't a 2% or 3% gap between the polling numbers and how people are going to actually vote just like -- some say that didn't happen in brexit. i can tell you that everybody said that brexit was going to fail.

all of the elites. >> this is a painful topic going back to brexit. i went to bed on the night of the 23rd of june absolutely convinced that we were going to vote to say in the european union because everybody in the establishment believed. >> everybody you knew. >> everybody i knew. >> everybody you respected. >> and campaigners i interviewed that day didn't think they were going to win. the leave camp didn't think they were going to win and said so quite publicly. they virtually gave a concession speech that night. sterling rallied. markets had rallied. all indications were. so things can -- polls can get it wrong. if there is this secret trump vote out there that's not being picked up and the only indication it seems to me we have of that is disparity of what people will tell online polls and telephone polls and it does seem he gets higher margins in online polls because somehow

in the anonymity of pressing a button people are prepared to admit they'll vote for trump but don't want to tell it to somebody on the telephone. if that plays out, maybe the polls are wrong which is what kellyanne conway has repeatedly said. they would have to be very wrong. >> there's been a lot of searching for the shy trump voters. >> right now we're at basically seven-point spread. we'll show a new fox poll. if there's a seven-point spread, there's not an eight -- if in the final three weeks -- i can't believe we have three weeks. if in the final three weeks it gets whittled down to 2% to 3%, at that point -- >> that would suggest there's a swing in his direction. >> if it were to narrow to two or three points, then there's no way clinton forces would go to bed the night before the election thinking they have

anything in the bag. >> watch his speech yesterday, this is the final season in the wild bunch where he's just -- it's unbelievable. he goes after everybody. now he tells his followers in his audience it's a conspiracy. >> globalist conspiracy. not only attack all of the people you described there, he attacked in specific the accusers from "the new york times" and "people" magazine and said they were horrible people and liars and he's going in as trump against the world. let's look at that fox news poll that joe talked about taken three days after the debate shows hillary clinton with a seven-point lead nationally, 45 to 38 over donald trump. a four-point drop for trump in a week. gary johnson at 7%. jill stein at 3%. two-way, clinton at 49% to trump's 41%. a double digit loss of support in several groups since last

week. dropped 12 points with women over 45. 10 points among suburban women and lost eight points with regular church goers. a total of 68% say clinton is qualified to be president while 56% in this poll say trump is not qualified with 49% saying not at all qualified. 54% say clinton is a good role model. 43% say she's not. 20% say trump is a good role model while 77% in this fox news poll say he's not a good role model. asked who voters will win regardless of their choice, two-thirds say clinton. 23% say trump. that's a swing of 20 points in clinton's direction in just a week. donald trump has a different take on the polling setting a habitual outlier. >> the polls are showing us in a dead heat. don't believe what you said. the new highly respected

rasmussen poll just came out this morning. just released. shows up nationally two points ahead trump. >> all right. so he pulled a poll that shows him leading. one more thing on the generic congressional ballot question, democrats up six points 48 to 42. up by just one point last month. >> some of the senate races, we have some very close senate races. that's really fascinating. we'll see. i guess next week is really going to be the critical week to see if what trump's been doing -- because what he's been doing over the last week has saved his candidacy whether people like it or not. on friday, saturday, sunday, this sort of torch the earth. he brought -- he went from 14 points down to seven points down but in so doing, he did it at a

tremendous cost. he kept his core. he offended a lot of other people. now the question is over the next week, can he get -- if he's seven down now when he was 14 points down on sunday, can he scratch and claw and get 3%, 3.5% of those back and where do they come from? >> who are these people? he's throwing red meat out to the base, and he may well keep them. if he just gets the base, he blu loses the election and loses it pretty big. the sort of scorched earth approach in theory depresses voter turnout. i have a feeling that he's more depressing republican turnout than he is democratic turnout because i think republicans at least in my antidotal acquaintance are more sort of disgusted with this whole thing than democrats are. >> but the republicans that

katty talked to in ohio -- >> life-long democrat that will vote for trump. >> that guy is going to show up in the rain for rain. >> he will absolutely show up and many fellow workers will show up even though their union said it endorses hillary. they are so fed up. they don't like hillary. they don't trade. he said i'm voting to save my job. he said to me i really don't like what trump says about women. i don't like what he says about immigrants. i have to vote to save my job and the only person out there who has a chance of doing that is donald trump. he will definitely show up. the problem with donald trump -- his strategy now is more red meat. trump unplugged for the rest of his campaign. >> as if he were ever plugged in. >> except there was a brief period where he was plugged in by kellyanne conway and what

happened? his poll numbers rose. so when he was on message on discipline and being contained was actually the best period for his campaign kind of mid august to mid september. >> still ahead on "morning joe," former presidential candidate and now donald trump supporter dr. ben carson joins us. plus, donald trump's tough talk continues but it is the locker room talk or lock her up that is working. >> i knew these false attacks would come. i knew this day would arrive. this is a conspiracy against you, the american people, and we cannot let this happen or continue. than your health. or the freedom to choose what doctor you want to see. so if you're on medicare, consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like any standardized medicare supplement plan,

you'll be able to stay with the doctor or specialist you trust... or look for someone new -- as long as they accept medicare patients. and you're not stuck in a network... because there aren't any. so why wait? call now to request your free decision guide and learn more. how do we measure greatness in america? it's measured by what we do for our children. it's why as president i'll invest in our schools. in college that leads to opportunities... not debt. and an economy where every young american can find a job that let's them start a family of their own. i've spent my life fighting for kids and families. i want our success to be measured by theirs. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message.

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>> let me just say about trump who i admire and try to help as much as i can. there's a big trump and a little trump. the little trump is pathetic. donald trump has one opponent. her name is hillary clinton. it's not paul ryan.

it's hillary clinton. there's a big donald trump that's an historic figure. he aroused the republican party. beat 16 other candidates. set a series of national debates that people thought was impossible. every once in a while he gets sucked into a fight and says things that make no sense. i think if he could discipline himself to stay big, he would win this election by a shocking margin. that first quote, willie, the little donald trump who is pathetic. i love and respect him but he sucks. i love and respect him but he's pathetic. >> little trump is frankly pathetic. >> says things that makes no sense. >> sounds like people are running for the exits. >> kind of sounded like that to me. that was very interesting. >> might want to wait a week or two. >> still ahead this morning,

ahead we'll play about what barack obama had to say about republicans supporting donald trump and while donald trump's celebrity helped to catapult him to the republican nomination, it's that same celebrity that's causing his downfall. jim joins us the morning. we'll be right back with the must-read opinion pages. is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work that blazes the path to your passions? your personal success takes a financial partner who values it as much as you do. learn more at tiaa.org i'm one unlucky guy. the chance of being involved in a robbery is 1 in 757. the chances of being struck by lightning... [thunder]

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hillary clinton responded to a lawsuit about her use of a private e-mail server yesterday submitting formal answers under

penalties of perjury saying 21 times in a request for information she said i did not recall. >> asked her her middle name, do not really. what month it was, did not recall. >> 21 times. >> similar to previous statements to the fbi. at the same time donald trump continued to hammer secretary clinton in her handling of classified materials and said he would have the fbi looked into. >> she should be locked up. she should. if i win, i am going to ask my attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor to look into her crimes. we're also going to look into the investigation. in other words, we're going to investigate the investigation because what happened is a

disgrace. she doesn't have the strength. she doesn't have the aptitude. she doesn't have what it takes. you know, when she's over in china, if she goes down, they'll just leave her there. they're tough people. they're just going to leave her there. they're not going to help her up. they'll say let her come up when she's ready. these are tough people. >> can we get donald on the phone to explain what he's talking about? >> does he mean if she literally falls down in china where they are tough people, they're just going to leave her there. >> referring back to her health problems maybe if she were on a diplomatic trip to china and may fall. >> they could just leave her there. what is he talking about? >> the secret service --

>> chinese are strong people and they would leave her on the floor where they deserve to be rather than wussy americans that may pick her up and give her a helping hand to help her. >> he's going to launch an investigation into the fbi because he believes that they acted improperly. >> who is going to do that investigation? kgb. >> all of the wikileaks stuff and e-mails of what's coming out, were we not talking about multiple women saying they were sexually assaulted by donald trump but he takes it and blows it up to something extraordinary about investigating the investigator and putting her in jail. >> charles writes in "the washington post" this morning it's not the locker room talk but lock her up talk. it should have been a surprise to no one. his views on women have been on open display for years. he's offered a dazzling array of

other reasons for disqualification to which list trump added in the second debate and it had nothing to do with sex. it was his threat if elected to put hillary clinton in jail. such talk is an affront to elementary democratic decency. it's not about placing nuclear codes in trump's hands but handing him the instruments of civilian coercion such as irs, fbi, s.e.c. think of what he could do enforce fairness that he demands. imagine giving the power to a man that says he will punish his critics and jail his opponent. >> i don't know where to start. >> i wrote about this after the debate actually. >> i was asking because i know she reads every one of your columns to talk about your column. >> it just struck me as, like,

the most unamerican thing that was said in that debate frankly. we don't do that in this country. we don't have newly elected leaders who immediately go about trying to jail the previous leaders. i covered countries where that sort of thing happens. we do not want to go there. that's not us. >> we have transitions of power where leaders do not like one another. dwight eisenhower had little use for jfk. little use. >> barack obama had little use for george bush back in 2000. >> it's interesting. of course jimmy carter had no use for ronald reagan but over time every one of them hands over the power gracefully and over time, they begin to understand and respect one another. >> there's a lot that's depressing about the state of american politics at the moment. you can make a convincing case that the country is virtually

ungovernable because of our divided politics and partisanship we find in congress and in the media and around the country. one of the extraordinary things that happens here every four years that is that shining beacon to people around the world, particularly people who live in countries i grew up in where they don't have that right, there's a peaceful transfer of power. it happens on that very cold day in january and one president comes down and another president leaves. and it is extraordinary. however bitter the campaign has been, you can rely on the fact that maybe some of the people in the bush administration messed around in the white house and some of the people in the clinton administration took ws off typing keys in the white house. that's as far as it goes. one person comes in. the other person leaves and it happens with grace and dignity and true commitment to democratic spirit. he's risking undermining that

process. >> you say some places that you grew up in, it didn't happen. >> middle east. >> cambridge? is it always an ugly power struggle to get one dean out and another dean -- >> we're still litigating the transfer of power. >> they carry knives. >> gets ugly over there. >> this presidential race is not happening in a vacuum. new issue of "the economist" looks at how the world is responding and based on the title of the issue, doesn't look good. we'll dig into the debasing of american politics. we'll be right back. e tires. or put them on a rack. but the specialists at ford like to show off their strengths: 13 name brands. all backed by our low price tire guarantee. yeah, we're strong when it comes to tires. right now during the big tire event, get a $140 rebate by mail on four select tires. ♪

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>> and remember, we won't just be setting a bad example for our kids but for our entire world because for so long america has been a model for countries across the globe pushing them to educate their girls, insisting that they give more rights to

their women, but if we have a president who routinely degrades women, who brags about sexually assaulting women, how can we maintain our moral authority in the world? how can we continue to be a beacon of freedom and justice and human dignity? >> what example has the election set for the rest of the world? we're going to talk to the editor of "the economist" coming up next. building a jet engine. well, ge is digital and industrial. like peanut butter and jelly. yeah. ham and cheese. cops and robbers. yeah. nachos and karate. ahh. not that one so much. the rest were really good. socks and shoes. ok, ricky... i'm going to the bank, to discuss a mortgage.

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welcome back to "morning joe." editor of "the economist." >> quite a cover. >> we'll talk about that cover in a second. the story reads healthy politics is not gang warfare. it involves compromise because to yield in some areas is to move forward in others. it's about antagonists settling on a plan because to do nothing is the worst plan of all. the 2016 election campaign has poured scorn . all americans are worse off as a result. can you tell us about the cover? quotation marks are placed in an

interesting place. >> tell me what right now is the attitude of our allies and other countries across the world about what's going on here because we've known for some time -- richard haass has been telling us that even before the first republican primary, everybody across the world was fascinated by trump. is trump really -- is he serious? are you people really going to vote for this guy? >> people have been fascinated by it for a long time. i think right now it's a combination of shock, disbelief and increasing horror. we first put trump on the cover of september last year. people say why did you put this guy on the cover? he's a complete jerk. he's not. you need to take this seriously. we've been proved right over the past year. as you look around the world, you guys were talking about it earlier. beacon of democracy.

a leader to many countries about how the democratic process is supposed to work. what do you see now? you see a man who has debased american politics. you've had attitudes, racism, you've had the idea that your opponent should be locked up which happens in other parts of the world, certainly shouldn't happen here. and then if you get to his ideas, we won't call them policies, for those outside of the u.s. they're terrifying. >> we've heard before comparisons before. >> there's a lot of comparisons. i don't think he brags about assaulting women. there were many political figures who have spoken in ways that echo some of the things that trump said that this whole package in a candidacy for president of the united states is completely unprecedented. for those of us that look to the u.s. as leader of the free world, it's incredibly worrying. >> the point about compromise,

is there a sense in britain and elsewhere of the reality that in fact we weren't compromising before trump, right? trump exacerbated the polarization. we hadn't been moving in any particular direction for some time. >> trump in many ways is a creature of the polarization of american politics. trump's rise is a reflection of the state of american politics. he's made it worse. he's antagonized it farther. this country is incredibly polarized. you talk about it every day on your show. people don't even agree on the facts of the country. one large group thinks it's a hell hole that needs a wrecking ball coming to it. that's why they like trump. people have huge problems with aspect of trump but they think the system is so broken you need to come in with a wrecking ball and perhaps something good will emerge. >> do you blame the people that

support trump or the system that allows him to get election to the party. >> i don't blame the people who support trump. there are many people who support trump who have very real grie grievances with years of stagnant living standards and feel left behind by the globalized world and we failed those people in many ways. there are legitimate reasons for people to be unhappy. people are unhappy in our country too. so that's really. it needs to be dealt with. trump and many parts of the right-wing conservative movement exacerbated that with a hate filled politics and bigotry. i think trump made it worse. he's played on it. he's a brilliant demagogue. he's played on people's anger and emotions and promised them a nirvana if he becomes president. the underlying reality is that american politics is polarized. it's become more and it's been

polarized for a long time. >> that's the emotional level of the fear that people have of donald trump abroad. what are the specific policy fears that they have? if he became president of the united states, what would it mean to the alliances between us and europe and asia and every else? >> the honest answer is nobody knows because trump doesn't have policies. trump has ideas. adding the word policy to it, first his protectionism. it's a very serious instinct. he's absolutely not a free trader. the globalized world trading system many of us think has been the bedrock of a lot of prosperity around the world. that's one. the other more scary one is his view about america's international geopolitical role. underpinned prosperity globally for the last 70 years. america has played this benign leadership role and he has a very different view. basically, others pay up and if

you don't pay up, we're getting out. he has this narcissism and thin skin that makes you worry what on earth would he do with north korea and what would he do with the middle east? his loose talk you can take not too seriously if you're steeped in the debate there. if you're in the middle east hearing hem and you sit in asia and you hear them, you worry. this is a country we relied upon for stability and leadership when you're inside the u.s., you don't realize how dramatic the rhetoric from the u.s. is and how important it is taken outside. >> what comparisons would you draw with brexit? we were talking about the polls before where katty said everyone she knew and everyone i knew that was influential -- >> katty spends too much time in london. >> everybody assumed that brexit was going down. and i'm just wondering if the polls get within two or three

points a week before, do you think a brexit repeat is possible here? >> of course that's something that we all worry about. you see what happened in the u.s. there are two big differences. although the mainstream view is britain would squeak to remain if, if you left london and went out to the metropolis there was anger about brexit. every time i went to see my parents all i heard was people wanting to leave. >> i think this is a slight against posh katty. >> it's not a slight. >> posh, posh katty. >> here i was in the steel mills of ohio. >> but more seriously, the underlying concerns that people have this sense of being left

behind, all of that, that anger is equivalent here as it is in england. you're absolutely right. there was a groundswell of this is a vote against the establishment in the u.k. i think you can have that here too. i don't know how many silent trump voters are here. the other thing we didn't have in england was this added stuff that trump has brought. the attitude toward women that will turn a lot of people off trump which will perhaps counter the grievances of core trump supporters. >> not to talk too fine a point here, but i thought a lot of brexit supporters were actually accused of racism. >> we've seen a rise in racial crimes in britain since the brexit vote too. >> and some are. certainly some were accused of that. it was a sense of little englanders and concern about the pace of immigration. there were a lot of people that voted for brexit because they had some notion of british sovereignty and didn't want to be entangled in the eu.

the debate was cost in those terms and that played a big role, but i don't think we had anybody in the brexit debate talking the way donald trump has talked about women, for example. >> we're not going to have a country folks. we're not going to have a country. >> you only go up north when you go up to liverpool to watch the matches so don't try to fool us. >> all right, posh katty. >> thank you very much. new issue of "the economist" is out right now. still ahead on "morning joe," the state of the race with 25 days until election day. new numbers from several key battleground states this morning. plus, would a president hillary clinton have no mandate other than she's not trump? ari fleischer joins the table and we'll talk about the campaign speeches on the trail

yesterday. >> i can't believe that i'm saying that a candidate for president of the united states has bragged about sexually assaulting women. and i have to say that i can't stop thinking about this. it has shaken me to my core in a way that i wouldn't have predicted. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. "you don't want to live with mom and dad forever, do you?" "i'm making smoothies!" "how do i check my credit score?" "credit karma. don't worry, it's free."

"credit karma. give yourself some credit."

here's the truth. either hillary clinton or her opponent will be elected president this year. if you vote for someone other than hillary or if you don't vote at all, then you are helping to elect her opponent.

just think about how you will feel if that happens. imagine waking up on november the 9th and looking into the eyes of your daughter or son or looking into your own eyes as you stare into the mirror. imagine how you'll feel if you stayed home or if you didn't do everything possible to elect hillary. we simply cannot let that happen. we cannot allow ourselves to be so disgusted that we just shut off the tv and walk away. we can't just sit around wringing our hands. no. we need to recover from our shock and depression and do what women have always done in this country. we need you to roll up your sleeves. we need to get to work because remember this. when they go low, we go -- >> high! >> yes, we do. >> wow. that was something. >> it was. >> welcome back to "morning

joe." it's friday, october 14th. mika south of france or? >> yeah. >> might be students weekend or something. >> denmark. >> denmark. >> biking in denmark. okay. along with willie we have washington anchor for bbc news america the very posh katty kay. do you ever go outside of london? >> when i have a visa. i get my passport and my visa. >> we have pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the washington post" eugene robinson. you spent a good amount of time living in london. >> i did. >> what years were you -- >> it was '92 to '94. i had great years in london because the charles and diana marriage was breaking apart.

the royal family got me on the front page of "the washington post." >> so great. celebrating the horror. glad it worked out for you. >> it's all about me. >> we're not that invested in the royal family anymore. >> you can at least have a heart. >> i thought you were a nice guy. >> white house press secretary for president george w. bush ari fleischer. >> when i hear people say sally forth, i'm glad that we declared independence. we were talking last hour about michelle obama. michelle obama and barack obama, two extraordinary speeches yesterday. likelihood two of the best speakers on the political scene come from the same family. >> one thing to remember, too, is when obamas really got into big-time presidential politics eight years ago, she did not want to do any of this. she didn't want to campaign very much. she certainly didn't want to make big sweeping speeches like

this and grown into a role eight years later where yesterday together with her convention speech, maybe two of the most memorable speeches of the campaign cycle. she's perhaps become the most valuable a valuable alley to secretary clinton. president obama went after donald trump hard last night. much of his focus was on those down ballot races. in columbus, ohio, the president was campaigning for hillary clinton but also for senate candidate ted strickland trailing rob portman big by double digits in the polls. >> i understand that ted's opponent has withdrawn his support from donald trump after looking at the polling. now, that it's politically expedient. he's supported him up until last week. so i guess it was okay when trump was attacking minorities and suggesting that mexicans

were rapists and muslims were unpatriotic. and insulting gold star moms and making fun of disabled americans. i guess that didn't quite tip it over the edge. why was that okay? we don't even think that most republican politicians actually really believe that donald trump is qualified to be president. i know because i talk to them. man, this is really bad. we're just trying to get through this. so the problem is not that all republicans think the way this guy does. the problem is that they've been riding this tiger for a long time. they've been feeding their base

all kinds of crazy for years. primarily for political expedience. when the guy they nominate and they endorsed and they supported is caught on tape saying things that no decent person would even think much less say, much less joke about, much less act on. you can't wait until that finally happens and then say that's too. . that's enough. and think that somehow you are showing any kind of leadership and deserve to be elected to the united states senate. you don't get points by that. >> obviously president obama and michelle obama going hard

against donald trump yesterday. what is the state of this race right now? what is the state of the republican party? is this a wipeout for everybody with an r by their name? does trump still have a shot at winning? is this everybody for themselves? >> i think the state of the party is it's deeply split. the state of the race at the presidential level is virtually over. state of the party beyond that, i think republicans are going to hold the senate and certainly hold the house because donald trump is such an aberration an independent running for president and not classic republican, it's not a wave election even if he loses by five or six. >> so you think this presidential race is just about over? >> virtually over. the only thing that can save donald trump now is external intervention of some sort that changes the agenda. what's happened that killed donald trump in this is he happily has made the race about himself. this was a change election. this race needed to be about hillary clinton and about policy.

but everything now has made it about donald trump. donald trump is extremely unpopular. that's why he cannot get over this hump against the second most unpopular person in america. >> what happens to republicans who have stood by donald trump publicly in terms of their future political ambitions? could we have a cascade effect here over the next cycle or two of the next generation of republican leaders because they tied themselves to somebody who has the potential of going down so dramatically? >> i've been looking ahead trying to figure out what will happen the day after the election for republicans. and what happens most depends on what donald trump does. if he returns to fifth avenue and leaves politics, the republican party will largely start to reset after some internal turmoil. if he stays active in politics, the republican party will remain deeply split for a while. who will take over the republican national committee will be a trump supporter. these are divisions the party is going to have to work out. having said all this, it's a healthy part of democracy.

republicans got their clocks cleaned and came back in a landslide four years later with nixon. democrats lost the house in 2002. i remember david gregory of nbc news did a stand up on the north lawn saying democrats are in disarray. i was press secretary. i thought to myself, no they're not. they just lost an election. this is america. you lose. you win. you come back. >> guilty by association? >> i think that there really is a sense of distancing because donald trump is so unique. that's why rob portman and marco rubio can win senate races. >> i will say we all believe around here that if trump went down, trump would take everybody down. that's what rnc believed. that's always been the case. let's look at numbers. new ohio poll, portman was supposed to be in a tight race with former governor ted strickland it rob portman up 18 points in ohio.

55-37%. burr who is out of north carolina. he's tied right now. new suffolk poll this week out of new hampshire i just looked up, october 6th, kelly ayotte up six points in new hampshire, a state where donald trump is down six points. and in pennsylvania, a state where trump is down double digits and just getting absolutely pounded in the philly suburbs, you actually have pat toomey neck and neck. >> tied in indiana. looks like he may actually win that seat against evan bayh and they could pick up harry reid's seat. >> we never know. at this point though, gene, it seems that republicans are able to differentiate themselves out on the trail from trump a lot more than mika and i thought they were. we spent a good bit of a year

poking them and prodding them. >> when i look at the numbers, i see those races as being more competitive than i thought they would be, and certainly there's this gap between how trump is doing and how the senate candidates are doing that i think is showing up in all of the polls. there are, you know, political strategists in both parties who think there is still the potential for a blowout election in which republicans lose more than it now appears they're going to lose. right now you would have to say they have a shot at keeping the senate and certainly keeping the house. >> if there were going to be a blowout, there may be a blowout election, we don't know. looking at data, you would expect a week after this week starting with the billy bush tape last friday and moving forward to today, all of the things that have happened, "the new york times" revelations and other women coming forward, you would think that there would be

a weakening of polls in ohio or north carolina or new hampshire for ayotte and burr and portman. there just hasn't been. portman up 18 points go back to wh "when henry met sally." i'll have what he's having. that's good stuff there. >> i don't know how to follow that up. it is possible, i guess, if we start seeing a situation this far out three weeks out where people like ari say the presidential race is over and paul ryan is signaling the same thing to his people as well, in order to split the ticket, people may firm up on the republican senate candidates. they may think she's got it. we want to check on hillary clinton. >> to what extent did donald trump campaign against those republicans who have abandoned him? >> it's interesting.

donald trump and the rnc together gave $6.5 million to down ballot candidates last night. i'm not exactly sure what that means. >> let me also prolong the substantive misery of this election, regardless of what happens in the house and senate, no party will govern for the next two years. let's say she takes the senate and house by slimmest of margins and unless she's going to buck the elizabeth warren, bernie sanders part of the party, she won't get anything done. if republicans keep house and senate and donald trump is president, maybe then they can do something but both parties are going to have slender majorities we'll be in the same position we've been in for six years and nothing is going to get done in washington. >> they'll have to work with each other? >> nothing is going to happen. they're not going to pass bills. >> i disagree. we talked about this yesterday with hillary clinton. ask people like trent lott who worked with hillary clinton in the senate.

they were extraordinarily positive about their time with her there and said she kept her head down. well versed and she knew how to do deals. do you think that changes if she's president? >> she's already boxed herself in. she ran to the left of bernie sanders. she'll prove wikileaks right. she's a liberal. the party of bill clinton is dead. the democratic party shifted far left. >> everybody hold these thoughts. we have hallie jackson standing by and she has to run to the airport. donald trump battled back against allegations of unwanted sexual touching by several women yesterday and made his case in rallies in florida and ohio from afternoon into the night suggesting a conspiracy of lies is being leveled against him. he said why didn't the writer of the 12-year-old article in "people" magazine mention the incident in quotes? because it did not happen wrote donald trump.

trump also spoke about the woman and claims in general before thousands of his supporters. >> think of it. she's doing this story on melania who is pregnant at the time and said i made inappropriate advances. by the way, the area was a public area. people all over the place. take a look. you take a look. look at her. look at her words. you tell me what you think. i don't think so. i don't think so. >> so hallie standing by outside trump tower. he attacked the media. attacked the republican party. attacked the banks and attacked his accusers. i think i left a couple out but we don't have time. >> reporter: declaration of war, willie. they were intense rallies. we were in cincinnati last night. the energy was really piqued after trump's speech that you talked about where he elevated himself to this position where

he said -- i'm paraphrasing here, i'm taking hits for you. he's sort of showing himself to be in some ways a martyr. listen to this sound bite. >> they knew they would throw every lie they could at me and my family and my loved ones. they knew they would stop at nothing to try to stop me. but i never knew as bad as it would be, i never knew it would be this vile, that it would be this bad, that it would be this vicious. nevertheless, i take all of these slings and arrows gladly for you. >> reporter: so a source close to the campaign tells me the strategy now the motto is keep fighting mud with mud. there has been a shift. a realization that trump is probably not going to win over some of these undecided voters so instead the strategy goes rally the base, try to depress

turnout on the other side. when it comes to rallying the base, i will tell you over the last 48 hours, we have seen the people who come to trump rallies embrace this standing behind donald trump on that stage in cincinnati where we were was a woman who was wearing a homemade shirt that said trump, talk dirty to me. women in particular coming to his defense and trying to talk about -- defend him. they come up and talk to us about it. you're seeing them hit the media more and more responding to trump. it is definitely an upped level of energy you're seeing at the rallies at least recently particularly after what donald trump said in west palm. >> reports last night that one of the events members of the media had to be escorted out by police off some of the rhetoric donald was delivering on the stage. did you see any of that? >> we took a motorcade back from ohio with the rest of the traveling passport to catch the charter for this morning's hit.

typically the press is escorted by the secret service and members of police armed out to the bus. i'm not sure that that is something that should be getting much play. i will tell you this. we were standing on the risers when members of the traveling press corps came in. we were standing there and heard a huge boos and loud noise and crowd screaming and it's because the press entered the arena and were filing into their seats at that point. that's not something we've seen other than this week. that's a new development. >> appreciate you clearing that report up for us. we'll let you get back to your next plane of the day. talk to you soon. thanks. >> you have handled many political candidates. how would you advise donald trump in the next 3 1/2 weeks to approach the race to the finish line? is this the right way to do? is it the only way for him to go? >> candidates have to be true to who they are. donald trump is not my style. what donald trump is doing now is being true to who he is. the problem is that he's

narrowing his base of supporters as you head to election day and not broadening in. real quick numbers. difference between romney who lost and trump. mitt romney won college educated voters by 14 points. donald trump is down six among college. so can he make it up with noncollege vote that he's going to draw out? mitt romney won noncollege educated voters by 25. trump is up by 25. let's go to white noncollege educated men. noncollege educated white men, romney won by 31 points in the defeat. donald trump is up 36. he's not making up the ground, he's getting his clock cleaned by college graduates. >> is he trying at this point sincerely to win the election or is he trying to lay the groundwork for a losses in which he can say the only reason i loss was because the system was rigged against me otherwise i would have won? >> he's absolutely trying.

every candidate tries. i heard this about george h.w. bush in '92. he wanted to lose. that's nonsense. he just has a bad approach. >> he knows he can't win. >> i think donald trump is full at himself looking at the crowds and rallies and size and thinks that's america. he thinks he can win. >> when you hear him talk about international conspiracies, what do you hear? >> i don't know. >> you know. >> i just think those are so overused in our society and they z deserve to be used for people that practice that. i will not just throw that around for easy political purposes. i don't know what he's getting at. a lot about what donald trump says and what hillary says that i don't really know what they're talking about. hillary of course with wikileaks e-mails we found out how she is on trade positions. she wants open borders. trade. i'm not going to go where you're going. >> it's interesting that if

donald trump were not distracted by everything that's been going on and really just fighting for his political life, the open borders comments in the speeches would be extraordinarily strong way for him to finish his campaign. he would in effect be finishing his campaign on the issue that began his campaign. and that is open borders. now, what's so fascinating is he's accused hillary clinton of being for open borders for over a year. the fact checkers say he's lying. never said that. never said that. well now we have evidence that she has said it. but like you said, he's talking about himself when i think actually talking about open borders would be far more persuasive to those people and trade to those people in ohio and pennsylvania and wisconsin and iowa. >> i have never really -- i've always been opposed to hillary.

i never defended donald trump. he's right in the role media is playing in this race. could have been a front page headline story. press doesn't want to think of it like that. they don't want to look at trade issues. it's why a lot of american workers, blue collar people feel the press doesn't relate to them. >> that's not the case. >> we had it on our front page. we've covered those issues. >> everyone -- >> this is a driving pulsating issue in the media and a feeding frenzy against hillary clinton if the media -- >> we make judgments about what the big story is. he's provided us with the biggest story. >> newspapers have a lot of room. they only want one story. the press in this race has been liberated just as donald trump has been liberated and so has the press to pound the person they don't like. that's a risky trend going forward. reporters will feel liberated on policy stories in the next administration and they take sides on issues.

this open borders statement should have been a multiday feeding frenzy against hillary clinton even with all of the things going on against donald trump. >> all right. always good to see you, sir. thank you. still ahead. he's one of the republicans still standing with and defending donald trump. dr. ben carson joins us live. plus, nbc's chris jansing joins us from the trail in battleground ohio where president obama is campaigning for clinton for a second straight day. and next, steve kornacki joins the conversation to break down the latest round of polling. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ lease a 2016 lincoln mkx for $349 a month. only at your lincoln dealer.

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>> there was a girl scout troop that came to our station the other day for a tour and afterward there was an 11-year-old girl that told our staff, she was talking about donald trump's words in campaign commercials and said when i hear those words and look in the mirror, they make me feel bad about myself. again, she said that totally unsolicited. what would you say to that 11-year-old girl? >> i would say any one of my kids and any children in this country that donald trump and i are committed to a safer and

more prosperous future for their family. >> that's republican vice presidential nominee mike pence speaking with a local station in ohio yesterday. joining us now, msnbc anchor and political correspondent steve kornacki. >> mika calls the rage. look how angry he is. it's pent up. >> furious. >> a couple things, let's look at some of the numbers. obviously ohio donald trump up by one. that's pretty much a tie. are you surprised though that after this horrific week for trump he still ahead? >> yeah. i mean, there's been damage for trump clearly in the last week. national horse race poll down six, seven, eight points somewhere in that range. damage is not what it used to be. i think back 20 years ago, dole versus clinton polls would bounce between 10, 15, 20 points behind in a race like that and question get to seven points nationally and we say it's a blowout. a different political

atmosphere. trump is in a position where he was behind before this happened last week. he's still behind now. >> it's not a big of a bubble as you would have expected. north carolina, margin of error. >> carolina is one of those states if donald trump loses north carolina, he's lost the election. at the end of the day if hillary clinton is able to win by four points, that's going to shut it down. >> he's slightly outside of the margin of error. that's four points. another poll shows it two points within the margin of error. let's talk about new hampshire where hillary is up by six points. i just saw a poll earlier this week, kelly ayotte ahead six points moved ahead six points in a suffolk poll. let's talk about the split we're seeing between republican senate candidates and the presidential candidates. six points there but new hampshire in a suffolk poll, kelly ayotte getting breathing

space. >> she seems to be performing better than donald trump is. you see that in most of these states, the senate candidates. sometimes you look in ohio if you look at the senate race there, rob portman is running 20 points ahead of ted strickland in our new poll. in some states they get a lot of distance. look at new hampshire and the dilemma that kelly ayotte faces. same dilemma pat toomey faces. half of the voters you need to appeal to to win as a republican in new hampshire, are die-hard trump people. they live in the north. rural voters. they love donald trump. they voted for him in the primary. the other half you need are suburbanites. they are uneasy about donald trump. >> it's interesting. different strategies though. kelly ayotte is walking a tight rope. burr is tight in north carolina. he came out yesterday and said i am behind donald trump. >> makes sense for some

candidates and not for others. if you look at this map right now nationally, steve, we just had ari fleischer say the race is effectively over which makes me nervous 3 1/2 weeks out. hard to say that. what's the most realistic way for donald trump if he still can to win? obviously he has to win florida. you mentioned north carolina. what pieces does he put together? >> this is why i hesitate to make a definitive statement like that. he is down. there's no question. i think there's also a very big question here about is there now a ceiling on donald trump because of negative stories? is he not capable of moving up? when you look at what he would have to move up by to be competitive, we saw it there. he's down four in north carolina. jump up a couple points. you've got carolina. you've locked down the romney states. what's your next target? florida. >> let's say he wins florida. he was down three after the billy bush tape came out in florida. let's say he wins florida. he wins ohio. big ifs.

wins the romney states. what does he have to win then? >> just with those three, if you take all of the romney states and add north carolina and florida and if you give him ohio, he's sitting at 253 electoral votes. there's one state, one obama state he still is ahead in and that's iowa. give him iowa. that puts him up to 259. look at nevada. nevada was a state he was leading in september. >> he's down six now. >> he's polling behind. you need a comeback in nevada. if you get a comeback in nevada, you're at 265. what do you need then? if you can get new hampshire, that would put you to 269. if you could get pennsylvania, that's a big if, i don't think that's going to happen. the other one that's sort of been sitting there and waiting to see if it ever moves closer is wisconsin. >> he's fallen further behind in. >> he's down by seven in wisconsin. >> doesn't it look like this week -- so it doesn't look like the trauma of the last week has yet cost him ohio, florida,

north carolina or iowa but perhaps it puts wisconsin and pennsylvania out of reach. maybe we can start comfortably moving those a bit more to the side. >> if you do that, essential state because nevada and new hampshire. >> he's down. that's a tough reach. >> i'm saying he's in a great position. when you look in the grand scheme of things for the pronouncement donald trump is dead and if he can reverse a five or six-point gap in nevada, i'm not comfortable saying he's dead. >> if you holds the romney states including utah, and he wins florida which is too close to call right now, wins ohio too close to call right now, wins north carolina which is too close to call right now. wins iowa where he's outperformed romney by a country mile. you say he's at 259. >> that would be 259. >> so then he is ten electoral

votes away from a tie. 11 from a win. he would have to pick up new hampshire and nevada. let's show those two polls again. new hampshire, hillary clinton is up by six points. nevada, up by six points. and new hampshire the same thing. up by six points. so, again, i've been making this warning to everybody all week who -- like willie said. you get nervous when somebody says the race is over when what you outlined is certainly plausible. >> i look at it -- >> 259 is plausible if he picks two or three points nationally and down by three points in these states at least, he's at 259 and not the blowout people think. maybe hillary wins 370 electoral votes but would you agree by looking at the numbers that it is way too early to say this race is over? >> i've not been comfortable all week saying that.

nobody should be given the campaign that we've seen. the wild cards here like i said are the new allegations is that going to cause more erosion? we'll see in the next few days. it's also just the question of has it imposed a ceiling on trump. we say he's only down six but do we find out he's incapable of making up those six because negatives are so high. that's possible. this is not a guy facing a 30-point deficit in a must-win state. >> this is not 1984. it's not 1988. >> we're not looking at 49 states to one state here. >> it is a big lift putting that math together. >> that's a lot of states where everything has to go right. >> 20% chance or something. i think given the campaign that we've seen, i think hillary clinton is likely to win at this point. i would not say it's over at this point. >> i do think 80% chance of winning. i heard some people say even trump supporters saying that she has an 80% chance of winning.

i remember in the 2000 race when one state after another state after another state went for al gore. everybody around the table at cbs news said it was over and dan rather said hold on a second. he could pull an inside straight. if he pulls an inside straight and rather talked about states he could still win on election night and sure enough, 38 days later, bush was president. we're three weeks out. it's too early. he may end up losing 49 states. but if you look at these numbers, we could be up late election night. >> plausible if unlikely. >> that's a good way of putting it. >> steve kornacki, good to see you. coming up, the idaho statesman is the latest to endorse hillary clinton for president. we will talk to jim who writes about the striking sense of

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perhaps the highlight of the campaign so far. >> it was the little move. >> dance move. and when they both are singing they come together both singing. >> i don't know if they'll go into dirty dancing lift at the end. that would have put a cap on that song. >> i don't remember that part from the debate. >> you didn't see "dirty dancing." >> even before announcing his run for the white house more than a year ago, donald trump spent decades in the spotlight. that celebrity status may have helped him get to this point in the election but also the same thing bringing him down in the polls right now. we'll discuss that next with "the new york times" media columni isist and editor of buz feed. "morning joe" will be right back. it's me, arty! come see what i collected

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jim writes in part, trump came at it with a new philosophy, give a messy show with a regular stream of action and they'll come with their cameras and won't turn them out. jeb bush and his college affordability plan never stood a chance. he reached the highest level of electoral politics not through legislative or executive accomplishment but through a series of video moments a that showcase a can't look away personality as much as anything he achieved in business. you point out it's that copious amount of video and content coming back to bite him. good to see you. >> we always had people come up to us and go what are you all talking about donald trump? if lindsey graham questioned john mccain's patriotism and said he wasn't a real p.o.w., we would probably talk about lindsey graham's comment. as lindsey pointed out to us later in the campaign, he was a

master at dropping a bomb every friday people would respond to the bomb and president's response to the bomb and talk about it on sunday's shows and then monday would be set for a continued debate on how somebody as depraved as donald trump could even be in this race. it was just a blur. for six months. it worked for a long time. ingenious. for a long time it seemed to be strateg strategic. what i don't know is was it as strategic as we think or popeye i am what i am. >> that's the question. it seems like -- there's an opportunity for trump to turn the summer and the fall into a reality show about his transformation into an appealing general election candidate. that did not happen. >> the thing is, you brought this up, there were two times when he attempted it.

was it wisconsin that went so badly? for two weeks he attempted it. he was disciplined. he rolled through the northeast with these massive wins. his numbers went up and then it exploded with the khans. he tried it again after kellyanne. did it for a couple weeks. his numbers went back up. >> right. and i wonder whether the strategy that you're describing where he used video, used himself, used his whole television expertise to grab attention and hold attention, was there also part of him or somebody in the campaign who had an alarm bell ringing in their head this could come back as willie said to bite them because there was so much video content out there? >> how about everybody? i mean, everybody but donald were worried about that. >> as we learn now, he didn't want to be vetted in the classic ways at a campaign event. you would drown in tape.

a staff of 100 or 1,000 to go through footage out there now we're talking about footage we haven't seen which could be thousands more hours. >> what about the question a lot of people asked last week after the "access hollywood" tape came out, where was this tape during the primary? why were opposition researchers focused on the fact that marco rubio bought a fishing boat and not that donald trump had said these things? >> i think we and many others reported a lot of crazy things donald trump said on the howard stern show and other places. "the new york times" had extensive reporting on how he treated women. there's something about the pressure of october and of the focus of people and focus of press where things are more explosive. the idea that people didn't know who donald trump is, thousands of pages saying exactly who he is. >> if "access hollywood" tape had come out in, say, january or february, would it have changed the nature of the primary campaign in the same way it's

changing the nature of the race at the end of the race? >> it's a hard question to ask, but i think one thing about this "access hollywood" tape, we've seen him on tape before. the content of this tape is definitely something beyond anything we had heard. that's why it hit so hard. that's why it shook loose these news stories. a lot of women say they're coming forward because they were upset by the type and his answer at the debate that he had never done these things. >> his answer at the debate is really crucial. like a classic reporting tactic to get somebodiy to lie in publc so other people who know the truth if they allegedly, will come out and say it. that's sort of what happened there. >> just about every one of the women we heard from in the last few days said that was the moment i had to come forward. guys, thank you so much. >> coming up in the next hour, donald trump supporter ben carson joins our conversation. there's still much ahead this hour. "morning joe" back in a moment. hey look, it's those guys.

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alarming new report coming in that early mass attendance down. it has plunged. i'm looking, willie, it's like 85% over the past month or so. the reason why, a lot to do with our next guest. willie geist, the godless sunday today. you're destroying early mass because nobody can go because they have to watch sunday today. >> is that the new nbc/"wall street journal" poll? >> i'm looking at it right now.

>> quinnipiac has us at 88%. >> it's willie versus -- >> i will say, just as paul mccartney said lsd brought him closer to god, a lot of people say sunday today is bringing them closer to the lord as well. >> we're going to put that in our new promo, amazing. >> it is great, though. i have found out you can watch sunday today and still go to the house of worship as i do every sunday. watch sunday today. what's on this week? >> coming up this week, we're talking a lot about the campaign, donald trump. he's had a tough week. also, our profile is of lindsay vonn. she obviously became a huge cent superstar on the slopes, but as she became this global star, she got deeply insecure and uncomfortable with being a celebrity. here's a little of our conversation. >> i tried really hard to block it out. but tiger actually really helped me with that. before i met him, i was reading too much of that and really got

in my head. and he just said, you have to block it out, and it doesn't exist. i have gotten to be in a place where i'm okay being who i am. if you don't like it, then you can just, you know. >> yes. >> she is so cool. she's great. i mean, i asked her why are you such a better skier than everybody else? she said, i sincerely have no fear. she falls, she breaks her back, they air lift off her the slo slopes, she goes back a few weeks later. really fun to talk to. lindsay vonn coming up on sunday today. >> still ahead on "morning joe," michelle obama takes on donald trump putting in stark and personal terms why she believes he should not be elected president. >> in a one-two punch, president obama took the stage last night blasting republicans for standing by their nominee. >> plus, new swing state polls outs just this morning. we'll tell you where the race stands, 25 days to election day. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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it reminds us of stories we have heard from our mothers and grandmothers about how back in their day, the boss could say and do whatever he pleased to the women in the office, and even though they worked so hard, jumped over every hurdle to prove themselves, it was never enough. we thought all of that was ancient history. didn't we? and so many have worked for so many years to end this kind of violence and abuse and disrespect, but here we are. in 2016, and we're hearing these exact same things every day on

the campaign trail. we are drowning in it. >> if you want to hear the best case for hillary clinton, you want to hear the very real stakes in this election, i would advoice you to link up to michelle's speech from earlier today in new hampshire. she was pretty good. i mean, she -- that's why you get married, to improve your gene pool. so your kids end up being superior to you. >> we were just talking. willie asked how many points do we think barack obama would be up if he were in this race. >> 20 i think is where we set it. >> gene, you said it correctly. they would have put the mercy rule in effect. okay, kids. come on in. game's over. >> let's get some pizza. it's all over. >> we're just going to leave the last three months.

>> exactly. >> katty, i was trying to think about any historical precedent to having two of the greatest speakers, political speakers, in america being from the same family. because that's what we saw last night. by the end of president obama's speech, you were left with no conclusion other than the two most effective speakers in america. >> do you have to go back to jfk and jackie? was she a good public speaker? ? no. >> jfk and bobby. >> bobby, well, bobby, it took bobby a while. >> took him a while. he was not a natural. >> he was not. he really wasn't until extraordinary moments like his indianapolis speech about martin luther king. but he wasn't a natural.

michelle obama, what's so remarkable about michelle obama is we hear time and time again, she doesn't like politics. and it is a good thing for the rest of the democratic party that michelle obama does not like politics because it would be like, okay, move down to the end of the bench. first lady is going to be running. she's -- >> i mean, she -- i think visibly was not that wild about this whole political thing at first. >> no. >> but obviously, she has warmed to it. obviously, she has -- that was, i think bill clinton called it the best speech of the campaign. he might be right. it was a great speech. >> she gave that great speech in philly at the democratic convention where she really made the case for hillary clinton in a way that none of hillary clinton's other surrogates have managed to. >> you know who she made the case for? she made the case for america. i remember thinking, you know, cheering michelle obama, going, okay, wait.

this is weird. what's going on here? she spoke for americans. >> i think last night's speech was harder, a harder speech to give because it was such a personal, intimate subject, to give it without sounding self indulgent in any way, but to stand up for american women and women and girls and families everywhere in the way that she did, this is a tricky subject. this whole issue of sexual harassment and abuse is hard. it's hard to talk about. it's hard for men to talk about. it's hard for women to talk about. she did it in a way that was articulate and thoughtful and emotional but without being over the top. >> and it brought everybody along. she didn't close any doors to listeners along the way. she brought you with her. >> and the thing is, willie, one of the things that drove me so crazy about a lot of republican candidates this past year is they were so preprogrammed.

you could tell they were reading from speeches that had been, like, churned through. the giant, you know, political machines, the focus groups, poll tested lines. michelle obama tackled a difficult topic yesterday and made it work extraordinarily well, because you could tell it was coming from her heart and there was nothing calculated about it. this wasn't to help hillary clinton. this wasn't to help her husband's legacy. this wasn't to promote herself. this was about her daughters and this was about my daughter, it was about your daughter. it was about daughters and mothers and women all across america. >> i think also the benefit any first lady has is that they're not in the day to day political fight. whenever they make a speech, particularly one as important as this one, it has added gravity and impact. it doesn't feel as though you're

getting hit over the head with politics. this was an event in manchester, new hampshire, yesterday. let's listen. >> the fact is that in this election, we have a candidate for president of the united states who over the course of his lifetime and the course of this campaign has said things about women that are so shocking, so demeaning, that i simply will not repeat anything here today. and last week, we saw this candidate actually bragging about sexually assaulting women. and i can't believe that i'm saying that a candidate for president of the united states has bragged about sexually assaulting women. and i have to tell you that i stop thinking about this. it has shaken me to my core in a way that i couldn't have predicted. this is not something that we can ignore.

it's not something we can just sweep under the rug as just another disturbing footnote in a sad election season. because this was not just a lewd conversation. this wasn't just locker room banter. this was a powerful individual speaking freely and openly about sexually predatory behavior. and actually bragging about kissing and groping women using language so obscene that many of us were worried about our children hearing it when we turn on the tv. >> we will obviously keep talking about that. and a lot more. so just to back up a bit, we got ahead of ourselves. it is friday, october 14th. mika is in the south of france, or maybe it's a parents weekend. i don't know. i say south of france and everybody is like, south of france, and then they see her at one of her daughter's colleges.

>> but joining me, we have katty kay and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. willie, so the race, obviously, it's been a tumultuous two weeks. with the tape coming out last friday, the weekend, the debate, and then just this chaotic week that's ensued. and then we have swing state polls that are really sort of hard to follow. hard to pick up a trend because there's some states, i think we said ohio, trump ahead. north carolina, it's basically margin of error. and others where hillary clinton seems to be moving in front. >> hard to believe it was only one week ago that "access hollywood" tape came out. so much has happened since then. let's see what the impact has been. key battleground states. donald trump has a slight edge in the state of ohio, according to the nbc/"morning joe" marist

poll, 42% to clinton's 41%. that's within the margin of error. gary johnson at 9%, jill stein at 4% in ohio. in north carolina, clinton up there at 45% to trump's 41%. johnson again at 9%. a suffolk poll shows a closer race in north carolina. clinton, 45%, trump at 43%. new hampshire, hillary clinton with a six-point lead there, 45 to 39. johnson, again, at 9%. and out west, a poll taken for the republican senate leadership fund in nevada hands clinton the advantage there, 45% to trump's 39%. ten points there in nevada for johnson. in utah, different candidate stirring up the race. the monmouth university poll gives donald trump a six-point edge over hillary clinton 34 to 28 with independent evan mcmullin climbing to 20%. gary johnson at 9%. >> so katty, you look at the two

swing states, the main swing states, ohio and north carolina. surprising donald trump is ahead. even though it's margin of error after the past week or so. north carolina, the two polls basically look like it's margin of error as well. so still tight there, but it does look like new hamp hr is starting to slip away, slip out of trump's column. nevada, six points also as well, and donald trump's up in utah, but obviously, republicans -- republicans haven't lost utah since 1964. what do you see in the numbers? >> when you dig down into some of these polls further is you see the trend over the last week has been particularly college educated white women moving dramatically away from the -- into the democratic column, away from the republican column. the double impact of the videotape and then the second debate and everything we have seen over the last couple days, i suspect that's not quite in the polls yet, but that clearly is starting to have an impact.

we saw that in wisconsin, pennsylvania, in new hampshire as well, and it's that group of people. ohio is interesting. i spent a couple days in ohio last week, talking to steel workers who obviously are having a very rough time, a guy who had been a democrat his whole life, who has just registered republican to vote for trump. because he's doing it to save his job. i wouldn't be surprised if trump manages to hang on to ohio. there's quite a lot of those pockets of communities in ohio, globalization has left them behind. they feel they had a bad deal. they don't trust her on trade. it's a state i think he can still win. >> we talk about kennedy. ohio has been such a toss-up state for so long. since 1960. i know -- >> it's just that place. >> but mitt romney never really had a shot there. barack obama -- it was close, but he was always three, four points ahead. he was solid. i remember republicans talking about ohio, but you could just tell it was solidly in barack

obama's column. >> still that level of enthusiasm about obama that there isn't about clinton, right? >> yeah. >> mitt romney is not a working-class hero. that's the kind of republican who can get some purchase in oh ohio. >> and by the way, doesn't that tell republicans where they need to go four years from now? not with all of the parts of trump that obviously are offensive to college educated people, but somebody not a mitt romney. not a john mccain. not a creature of washington. but somebody that can relate to steel workers. like ronald reagan did. >> exactly. you look, speak to those people. >> start there. >> speak to those people. you'll do better. >> start there, your billionaires on wall street will come along. >> right, and by the way, take a look at your array of policies and see if there are any that

people view as really hostile to their interests, and you might want to change those. if you look at the whole array of the polls we've been seeing this week, to me, what you see is that donald trump had to run the table. he's got to run the table in these swing states. and that looks like just a receding dream day by day by day because in some states, in states where he was a little bit ahead, now she's a little bit ahead. and in states where she was a little bit ahead, she's a lot ahead. >> right. >> that door is closing. >> to katty's point about college educated women, it's one thing to win over those white working class men in ohio, the steel workers you talked to. but if you look at numbers coming out of suburbs. we had one yesterday we talked about out of the philadelphia suburbs where he's getting destroyed by hillary clinton. if that's also true in the suburbs, that's where he's in

trouble. >> what we have to remember is trend lines. if you had taken a poll on sunday before the monday debate, donald trump was 14 points down. after the monday debate, he was 7 points down. the question is what happens, we have two weeks now? >> three weeks. >> oh, god. >> sorry. >> god, when is it going to end? oh, geez. i thought we were two weeks to go. >> did you see that from the american institute of psychology saying americans are getting stressed by this election. i sympathize. >> you think? >> we have three weeks. okay, i guess that really makes what i was going to say all the more relevant. we have a long way to go. >> three and a half weeks. >> three and a half, because he went from 14 on sunday down to 7 on monday or tuesday down. and so all of these polls are going to ebb and flow. the only thing i would say is if i were a hillary clinton supporter is, how is donald

trump still ahead in ohio? what's going to happen? how do we keep the trend lines going? obviously, the trend lines look very good for her right now, but harold wilson, a week is a lifetime in politics. >> and her strategy at the moment seems to be keep a fairly low profile. she hasn't got any public event scheduled until the debate next wednesday. >> pretty smart, right? do no harm. >> do no harm. a couple television appearances speaking to bespoke audiences. she's not great anyway in the big rallies. in a sense, why do them? do no harm. keep your head down, and let the chaos that is happening in the trump campaign play out and carry on, drip, dripping his numbers down. >> the one caution, and harold ford brought this up as a big hillary clinton supporter, don't take your foot off the gas, because donald trump still could, i mean, he's got to pull some straights here on the inside, but he still could win

the election. the four corners offense can be dangerous when you hold the ball. >> you have to keep advancing. by the same token, if trump is going to come out day after day after day, speak only to his base, alienate others, then you don't want to get in the way of that message. you want to keep moving forward. >> she's recording shows with ellen. that might be more effective actually to female audiences than doing another big rally in new hampshire, which she's not particularly good at anyway. i don't think she's taking her foot off the gas. it's a question of targeting the way she is most effectively used. you don't have to do those big things. >> and the question is, what impact is donald trump having on voters right now with an approach that is, as people say, peak trump, which he's trashing the media. he's trashing his own republican party. he's trashing the washington

ruling class. he's trashing fiennancefinancee rhetoric some have suggested is anti-semitic. he's -- again, he's going all in here, and i would not expect anybody around this table or with anybody that we know or anybody in washington, d.c. that's in sort of an influencer to think any of that is going to win him, win him an election but katty kay, tell us what all your friends were saying two days before brexit. i'm not drawing too many parallels. i just would be surprised if there aren't -- if there isn't a 2% or 3% gap between the polling numbers and how people are going to actually vote, just some say

it didn't happen in brexit. i can tell you, everybody said that brexit was going to fail. all the elites. >> have you seen sterling? you know how to hurt, joe. this is a painful topic, the brexit. i went to bed on the night of the 23rd of june absolutely convinced that we were going to vote to stay in the european union because everybody in the establishment believed. >> and everybody you knew. >> and everybody i knew. >> everybody you knew expected. >> the leave campaign is who i interviewed that day, didn't think they were going to win. the leave camp didn't think they were going to win and were saying so quite publicly. they virtually gave a concession speech that night. that's how convinced they were. sterling rallied, the markets had rallied. all the indications were, so things can -- polls can get it wrong. if there is this secret trump vote out there that's not being picked up, and the only indication it seems to me we have of that is the disparity

between what people will tell online polls and telephone polls and it does seem he gets larger numbers in online polls whereas they don't want to tell it to somebody down the telephone. if that plays out, maybe the polls are wrong, which is what kellyanne conway has repeatedly said. >> we don't know. we don't know. >> they have to be very wrong. >> there has been a lot of searching for the shy trump voters. >> right now, we're at basically a seven-point spread. we'll show a new fox poll. if there's a seven-point spread, if in the final three weeks, i can't believe we have three weeks, if in the final three weeks let's say it gets whittled down to 2% or 3% and hillary clinton is up by 2% or 3% -- >> that would suggest there's a swing in his direction anyway. he's getting it. >> exactly. if it were narrowed to two or

three points, then there's no way that the clinton forces would go to bed on election -- you know, the night before the election thinking they have anything in the bag. >> watch his speech yesterday. this is the final secene in the wild bunch where he's just -- >> unbelievable. he goes after everybody. he says now he tells his followers, it's a conspiracy. there's an outright conspiracy. >> globalist cub speonspiracy. >> not only did he attack all the people you described, he attacked the accusers from the "new york times" and "people" magazine, said they're horrible people and liars. he's going all in on being the old trump. >> still ahead on "morning joe," president obama campaigns for hillary clinton for a second straight day in ohio. a state where she's currently locked in a statistical tie with donald trump. chris jansing joins us from her hometown of cleveland where the president speaks later today. plus, former republican presidential candidate, now a donald trump support, dr. ben

carson joins the conversation. before we go to break, this programming note. vice president joe biden will be chuck todd's guest on "meet the press" this sunday. here's a sneak peek. >> i can't make any excuses for bill clinton's conduct. and i wouldn't attempt to make any excuses for his conduct. but he paid a price for it. he paid a price. he was impeached, and he was -- he expressed his deep sorrow and acknowledged what he did. ♪ ♪ ♪ look out honey... the highly advanced audi a4. ♪ ♪ ain't got time to make no apologies... ♪

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coming up on "morning joe," he's standing by donald trump amid the new accusations of unwanted kissing and groping. former rival turned supporter ben carson joins us. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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♪well, if you want to sing out, sing out♪ ♪and if you want to be free, be free♪

♪'cause there's a million things to be♪ ♪you know that there are ♪and if you want to be me, be me♪ ♪and if you want to be you, be you♪ ♪'cause there's a million things to do♪ ♪you know that there are ♪ the claims are preposterous, l ludicrous, and defy truth, common sense, and logic. we already have substantial evidence to dispute these lies and it will be made public in an appropriate way and at an appropriate time, very soon. >> he said that he has substantial evidence to prove that what these women are saying is wrong.

boy, if there's a time to come up with that evidence and show us that evidence, this is the time. has he shown you that evidence? >> matt, i think it's coming. and it's coming in frankly probably in a matter of hours. >> wow, that was governor mike pence moments agone on the "today" show saying it's, quote, only a matter of hours before donald trump reveals substantial evidence to refute claims made by his accusers, the "new york times," "people" magazine, and elsewhere. >> we have msnbc political analyst elise jordan. >> i'm sorry i asked that question. all right, so let's change the subject quickly. we were talking, we had steve kornacki on to explain to everybody that is popping the champag champagne, kind of like the red sox in '86 before the ball went through buckner's legs. keep the champagne on ice for now. new poll out of new hampshire shows hillary clinton up 41% to 38%. what you will notice, though,

over the past week, which was supposed to be the worst week in the world for donald trump, the most horrifying week politically for donald trump is donald trump has gained three points. hillary clinton is down one point. that's actually since 9/29. what it shows is i suspect, willie, maybe in a zone where we don't get it in the media anymore than a lot of the media didn't get it during the primary run. but if you go back to what kornacki said, new hampshire is a vital part of donald trump's path to 270, if he holds all of romney's states, if he wins north carolina, which he's tied. ohio, which he's up one. and florida, where he's down three in the last poll after the billy bush tape. he's got to win new hampshire and he has to win nevada. here he's within the margin of error in one of those two states. >> we said it with steve, he still has a stitch together a very, very difficult map. >> an underdog, massive

underdog, but there is a path. >> i'm looking, elise, at the dates of the poll. october 10th through 12th, which is monday, tuesday, wednesday of this week. after the debate, but really before the accusers have come forward in the "new york times" and in "people" magazine. do you think perhaps as has been the case with donald trump for 18 months, the impact of these event that feel like earthquakes is less than it was perceived to be? >> i don't think the video was a game changer. it was just another event that added to the litany of missteps he had that eroded voter confidence. this week i was in the suburbs of philadelphia, and suburban women voter, and while they didn't really -- they weren't surprised. who really was surprised by the language given his previous comments and his bravado throughout the entirety of his life, but they were discouraged in that they wanted a reason to vote for him, and he just stripped away, yet another example of his instability as they perceived it. they wanted somebody who is

stable and who is accountable to them, and he seems unaccountable to anyone. >> we're seeing in these philadelphia suburbs just an an salute route. mitt romney kept it within single digits. donald trump way down. he cannot win pennsylvania. he just can't win pennsylvania without keeping it close in the suburbs. >> and getting women in the suburbs. women have decided the last five elections. he has to win the women in the suburbs. it's difficult for him to do that, and that's why himath is so hard. if you take pennsylvania off the table for him, he's got much fewer options for cobbling together that 270. >> let's go to one of the states that's going to determine this race, ohio. we go there for nbc news senior white house correspondent chris jansing. she is live in cleveland, ohio. she's there, she says, to cover early voting. we know she's really there for game one of tonight's alcs. >> of course. >> well, i might have a ticket. >> busted.

>> i might have taken out a second mortgage on my apartment to buy that ticket, but i digress. it's a cold october morning on lake erie, and the crowds are out to see president obama. this is an early voting turnout rally. they had two lines going this morning. look, this is a state that he's won twice. but remember, a couple weeks ago, there were these rumors that the clinton campaign was going to give up on ohio. let me tell you, the campaign believes they can win it. it's a dead heat, and barack obama, the folks there believe they can help put her over the top among likely clinton voters in a recent poll, 91% approval rating for barack obama. really interesting that when i started talking to the white house back in the summer about him going out on the campaign trail, it was the obvious stuff, one, he wanted to support hillary clinton. two, they felt his legacy was under threat, some of his signature achievements. in the last couple weeks, i can tell you, from being around the

president but also talking to folks, both on the president's staff and on the first lady's staff, it's become something different now. it's become something bigger for them. you saw it last night at the dinner that the president did in columbus. you certainly saw it with the first lady in manchester. and you feel it here on the ground. it's really an intensity here because it's such a tight race. i talked about it with the heads of both parties here in ohio. take a listen. >> we're not to the point where we can waste time on side shows anymore. we're not defining him to the electorate now. people are voting. once they have cast that vote, you can't change it. so thousands and thousands of people every day are casting their ballots, and we're going to have to -- what we're doing right now is making our closing argument. >> it's the side that has the best ground game, the most volunteers, knocking on doors, making phone calls, getting people to vote early and working to election day. whoever does that better will win ohio. if you go to some of the trump offices, i have been to one in

toledo several times. 5clerk 30 in the afternoon, completely empty. >> so that's what this is about, get out the vote. this is what the democrats think will make a difference. i grew up 35 miles east of here. and it was a democratic stronghold. my father worked his whole life in a factory. that factory is closed now. when i drove through my home town, you see a lot of trump place signs in a place that was heavily union. they believe with women and a good get out the vote operation and things like this, big rallies, get out the vote rallies with obama and potentially michelle obama, they can turn this thing around. back to you guys. >> chris jansing who knows her home state very, very well. very interesting there. have fun at the game tonight. >> go tribe. >> thank you, joe. thank you, joe. i'm not excited. i will tell you, if cleveland wins two championships in one

year, we will lose our collective mind. >> here we go. >> we'll lose our collective mind. i'm not excited. >> go tribe, despite the fact you guys just pounded the red sox. i don't like that. >> so elise, we just had a report from chris jansing talking about how her home town outside of cleveland, heavily democratic, has trump signs all over. earlier this week, jacob soboroff reported from rural north carolina. trump signs all over the place. and in both cases, and katty, of course, talking about ohio earlier, saying a democratic union member saying he doesn't like any of the things trump is saying about women and a lot of other things, but he wants to save his job. there seems to be this common denominator across america. you go to some of the poorest towns, most under siege towns, and you see a ton of trump

signs. >> people want change. they see hillary clinton as just going to deliver a tired status quo, things will be the same. they would rather take the risk. much like with the brexit vote with people who didn't know necessarily what they were going to get when they voted for brexit, but they were willing to accept the risk and go with the unknown. that's really what i think trump is seeing change versus experience. that's what he did successfully in the first debate, was wage that argument. and the second debate, it got muddled in his side show. and so if he can go into the third debate and actually show some seriousness, it would really help him a lot. >> so katty, we had chris talking about the democratic town in ohio, you talking about democratic union members. we're starting to see why despite all the trouble in the past week, at least in the latest nbc news/marist poll, donald trump still ahead, by the slimmest of margins, but still ahead surprisingly in a state mitt romney lost, that john mccain lost. >> for people who feel they cannot afford to vote for hillary clinton.

if they carry on voting for the same kinds of people that we have elected over the last few cycles, their problems will never be addressed. and their economic fortunes will never improve. and that's why they're prepared, a bit like brexit, like you say, to chuck it up in the air. it really is sort of i'm going to throw it in the air. i don't know how it's going to land, but it has to be better. >> how ironic you hear republicans saying i'm going to hold my nose and vote for hillary clinton. and you hear democrats saying the same thing, i'm going to hold my nose. i don't like de. but i'm going to vote for donald trump, working class democrats, union democrats. >> absolutely. let's bring in one of donald trump's supporters, former republican presidential candidate dr. ben carson. always good to see you, sir. let me ask you quickly about what mike pence just said on the "today" show. within a matter of hours, the trump campaign will provide evidence that shows the accusers of the last few days of donald trump have fabricated their stories. do you have any more insight into what that evidence mouth

be? >> no, i do not have any insight into that. although i do have common sense. and you know, for instance, if somebody's sitting next to you in a first-class section of the airplane, there are stewardesses, other people around. and there's just gigantic arm rests. what happened to all those things? i really look at the way these things have been brought up. and as you know, a week or two, i predicted this was going to happen. and that they will keep coming up with stuff to try to take your eye off the ball. the ball really is about what's happening to america, that's why two out of three americans are concerned. and what we're engaging in is exactly what happens to pinnacle nations historically. before their fall. they take their eye off the ball, start engaging in things that really don't matter that much. not that, you know, sexual language and abuses is not important, but when you are

talking about the train going off the cliff, you really need to deal with that first. the other thing -- >> but dr. carson, dr. carson -- >> let me finish this. >> hold on. you get two points. i'll let you get to your second point. you have to let me respond to the first point so we can do this in a rational way. so when your first point, you say the train is going off the cliff. the character of the conductor matters, though, does it not? nations rise and fall based on the quality of their leadership. based on the character of their leaders. character does count, does it not? >> yes. yes, and the conductor needs to make a decision. if there's a fight going on in the coach car and the train's going off the cliff, which one is he going to do? that's a good conductor. the second point is, fiscal responsibility. nations, pinnacle nations before they fall, they bekim fiscally irresponsible. we see that time after time. the third thing is that accept

corruption in the highest levels as normal. it seems like we have read that playbook and we're ready to go off that cliff. >> but fiscally irresponsible. donald trump's economic program actually leads to larger debts and deficits in the futures than hillary clinton's, does it not? >> it depends on which economist you want to look at. let's throw the economists out and use common sense. >> let's use math. >> common sense. from 1850 to 2000, our economy grew at an average rate of 3.3%. since 2000, it's grown at less than half that. for the most part. now, they say it's the new normal. there's nothing normal about it. what we have done is impose enormous restrictions on people with all of these regulations and had a tax system that is not conducive to entrepreneurial risk taking and capital investment. we have historical evidence that shows what works and what doesn't. and people say, well, when you cut taxes, when bush cut taxes,

the deficit went up. of course it went up because we got involved in two wars when i didn't agree with. >> katty kay here. you just said throw the economists out. that smacks of something that happened in the brexit campaign. >> because they did such a great job of helping us to get into good condition. that's why i throw them out. >> the anti-elite idea that we don't want experts telling us about the economy since brexit, stuerling has tanked and it's been a problem. perhaps having experts tell us about the economy is not such a bad thing after all. i want to push you on the allegation of sexual abuse because you seem to suggest this morning in your interview with the description of the first class cabin and previous interviews that these women are lying. the real reason women who have been sexually abused don't come forward is precisely this, all too aunch they're accused of being liars. are you saying these women are lying? >> that's your characterization because you need to characterize

it that way to try to make me the bad guy. >> no, no, no. you just said it's a question. >> stop, stop, stop. stop. hey, can you turn her microphone off, please? >> no. >> turn her microphone off so i can talk. >> no, no. it's a simple question. yes or no. do you believe these women are lying or not? nobody is trying to paint you as a bad guy. we just want an answer, straight talk. >> it doesn't matter whether they're lying or not. >> of course, it matters. >> listen, it doesn't matter whether they're lying or not. what matters is that the train is going off the cliff. we're taking our eye off of that and getting involved in other issues. >> of course it matters whether they're lying because if the campaign is saying, and you are suggesting that they're lying because it possibly couldn't have happened because the way that first class cabins are designed and there are air hostesses are there, which is fine if you think they're lying.

>> okay. here's what we need to be thinking about. i love the fact that all of a sudden you want to talk about morality in our country. i would love us to bring back our judeo christian values and begin to teach those things and emphasize them at a time other than a political election. let's do that. but right now, the train is going off the cliff. >> are they not relevant? >> you have to understand that. >> dr. carson, you definitely know how bruising a primary battle can be. but the entire time you ran for president, you were not accused of a sexual transgression the entire duration of your race, except perhaps by donald trump who referenced you somewhat as a pedophile in a completely unfounded and ridiculous statement. what does that say that there are one, two, three, four, multiple accusations about donald trump and you didn't have a single accusation like that against you? >> again, not the important

issue. it's like hitting against a brick wall. getting people and particularly people in the news media to understand how much trouble we're in. look at what's happening to the future of our children. we have a -- almost $20 trillion national debt. a fiscal gap of $200 trillion. >> 50% of the electorate are women. >> what's happening with our borders, what's happening with our jobs. you think about what's happening with education, you look at all the division in our country, a house divided against itself cannot stand. it's like you need to shake people and say, look, folks. >> you said something that was fascinating. >> these are not republican or democrat issues. this is america we're talking about. get it through your thick skulls. >> my skull is really not that thick. i think judeo christian values should apply not only when we're in the midst of the campaign, but it should be in the campaign. you said let's push the judeo

christian ethics to the side. let's talk about it later. shouldn't they apply right now as much as usual? as much as at any time? >> why is it that you people in the media -- >> stop saying you people. stop saying you people. you know what. stop using you people. why can't you just give a straight answer? >> why not just listen to what i'm telling you. >> i am listening to what you're telling me. you can go back, and the great thing is we have transcripts and tapes. you said we shouldn't focus on judeo christian values right now. it's on the transcript. it's on the tape. do you think judeo christian values apply during campaigns or only after campaigns? >> no, let me tell you what i actually said, and i'm glad it is on the tape. >> i am, too. >> i said i would love for us to engage in a conversation on jewje judeo christian values and i would love for us to bring

morality back, and we need to do it at times other than a political campaign. but we're not doing that. right now, what we need to do is concentrate on the reason that two out of three americans feel that our country is on the wrong track. in the media, the reason that you are protected by our constitution is because you're supposed to be objective and on the side of the people and helping them. when you take sides, it is absolutely distorting to the original -- >> what side am i taking? i'm just curious, because i tell you, hillary clinton people think i'm on trump's side, and trump people thinkian on hillary clinton's side. i'm so confused i don't know what side i'm on. >> do you believe your network is unbiased? >> i don't believe any network is unbiased. >> all right. then you have just confirmed what i said. you need to be working toward that goal. >> no, i haven't confirmed k ee

anything. >> don't just capitulate to it. >> there is -- there is a point of view at fox. there's a point of view at cnn. there's a point of view at msnbc, with the "new york times," with the "wall street journal." i mean, i'm smart enough to read all of those and filter through it. i'm sure you are, too, right? >> well, how about you become the champion for the people and start trying -- >> i am the champion for the people, sir. i am. and that's why we let democrats and republicans come on, and we consider this to be a safe zone and don't let people talk through talking points. >> work on your colleagues then, please. >> my colleagues can take care of themselves. but dr. carson, we thank you for being with us. and you work on your colleagues. please, work on my republican party and elise's republican party. we're in trouble. thank you for being with us. >> it's a deal. it's a deal. >> all right.

i don't know. elise, did i misunderstand something? >> that's so disappointing to me because i heard dr. carson speak when i was in college, and it was the most incredible, inspiring speech i ever heard about his upbringing, his christian faith. it was the kind of speech i said this man should run for president. this was ten years ago. showing my age. i don't know who that man is. the christian man who does have beliefs and now he's trying to give these vague talking point about the train running off the cliff and trying to ignore these issues of morality that are so central to the character that we want our president to have. >> it's the question every woman is asking him. >> willie, doesn't character count? and katty, doesn't character count now? >> of course it counts. >> more than ever? >> more than ever. >> if you talk about judeo christian values in government, you don't put them aside now. right? i don't understand how --

>> the question we asked was a very simple question. it was a totally nonbiased question. >> does he -- >> think that women are lying. >> think the women are lying. >> yes or no. >> he also said in a fox and friends interview said the guarantee from the times to the women is we'll give you fame. the idea that sexual assault accusers come forward to be famous is not only preposterous but offensive, as to be -- i don't want to dismiss the campaign, but i think to elise's point, dr. carson knows better. >> and as you say, elise, as a man who was accused of being a pedophile, like a pedophile, in the primary campaign, i am doubly surprised. >> it just flabbergasts me. i don't see how he can get up and do that. >> all right, "morning joe" will be back in a moment. i guarantee you no colleagues

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still trying to figure out what just happened, katty, especially given the topic, for him to say turn off your microphone. was staggering. >> i don't think i have ever interviewed anybody who said i needed to have my microphone turned off. that's a form of censorship in response to a simple question, which he never answered. >> unbelievable. right now, let's talk to somebody who knows what aleppo is. as the world seems to turn its back on the war-torn city, we're going to take a look at the people stepping in where the hospitals are increasingly under siege. >> the tragedy is at the moment they aren't getting the supplies they need. and just last week, in aleppo, free of the four centers they operate from were deliberately targeted and destroyed. they're operating under incredibly difficult conditions. what's amazing is they're still

running into the smoke and the fire to rescue people. and while the international community has really struggled to find a solution to syria, what many people can agree on is the need to support groups like the white helmets. >> that was part of the documentary white helmets talking about the volunteer group's desperate need for supplies in syria. joining us is michael nyenhuis. stepping up critical services to some of the hardest hitting areas and author and an online newsletter, dr. dave campbell was also "morning joe's" medical expert. michael, what are you all specifically doing and going to continue to try to do to get badly needed supplies into syria? >> we're doing three things. we are delivering critical medicines and medical supplies into organizations that are managing hospitals and clinics within syria.

we have delivered 47, 48 shipments valued at about $7 million in products in there. we're also working carefully with refugees in host communities. this is big issue that doesn't get much attention either, which is all these people who have flooded into jordan and elsewhere and the health care needs they need. >> how dire is the situation? >> terrible within syria for sure. you're talking about, the organization we work alongside, they operate 77 hospitals and clinics. every single one of them has been attacked. they're beginning to bury their hospitals underground. used to be you would be able to put a red cross or a flag at a hospital or clinic in hopes that that would keep it safe. now it makes it a target. >> assad and the russians deliberately targeting hospitals. the >> they're targets. you're talking about hero health care workers who are still there providing the services that are needed. >> dave, we have a lot of humanitarian kricrises, whetheru go from ham haiti to aleppo, bu

aleppo seems about asbed as it gets. >> haiti, for example, needs food, water, and shelter. there are over 1,000 people that have died because of hurricane matthew. in the eastern part of aleppo, that is under siege, those injured need to be evacuated through safe corridors to safe zones. and of course, they need supplies in aleppo, but they also need to get the sick and wounded out of aleppo so they can be provided with care because the hospitals have all been bombed. there's only 30 doctors left in eastern aleppo now. >> doctors having to make a choice. we have read the heart breaking stories about the children they can save that they have to let die because they have to prioritize because there's so few supplies. >> the children in aleppo are really suffering. john kerry, god bless him, is going back for more talks with the russians this weekend in geneva to try to see if they can do anything to ease the

humanitarian situation. are you at all optimistic that some type of a corridor, it didn't happen last time with the cease-fire, the russians and assad regime blatantly ignored their part of the deal. any chance do you think we'll have a corridor opened up to get supplies in. >> we're hoping so. optimism is a heart thing to have in syria. most of the crises that displace people from their homes and communities are caused by political issues, security issues in places liex syria. we have to solve these things at the top level among governments in the political sphere in order to have the freedom to serve the people we need to. >> and the humanitarian crisis there again is on such a massive scale. i can't believe what you told me, 30 doctors. only 30 doctors. >> right. and health care workers are now targeted. that's a whole change in the rules of engagement that we're used to from the geneva convention rules where health care workers have historically

been protected, like you said. a red cross was a way to protect that convoy, protect that hospital. that's no longer the case. >> and doctors are running out of antibiotics and anesthetics to treed those who have been wounded. how much longer do you think the 30 doctors can carry on doing the work they need to do given that they're still being bombed every day? >> let's imagine nothing changes. they have 30 days of medicine. they have 30 to 90 days of food. they really have almost no fuel left. you need fuel to run the generators because there's no electricity. imagine being in a hospital with no electricity, no running water, in a basement. it's a haven for bacteria and infections and -- >> yeah, a nightmare. so very quickly, how do our viewers help amare acares get needed supplies. >> number one, we need people to pay attention to the problems. there's so much in the news

cycles, but pay attention to the problems in syria and haiti. they can visit our website to figure out what the situations are and how to help. >> michael nyenhuis, got it right. thank you so much. dr. dave campbell, as always, thank you for being here, and thank you, katty, for being here, mike and all. >> mike open. she will talk. >> yes, she will. the mike stays open. that does it for us on "morning joe." thank you guys so much. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thank you so much, joe. this morning, lots to cover. battling back. donald trump denying accusations of inappropriate behavior. >> the claims are preposterous. ludicrous, and defy truth, common sense, and logic. >> lashing out at the clintons, the media, the system. >> these attacks are orchestrated by the clintons and their media