are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent. >> i have great respect for women, nobody has more respect than i do. >> for the record you're saying you never did that. >> frankly you hear these things, i said, i was

embarrassed by it, but i have tremendous respect for women. >> have you ever done those things. >> women have tremendous respect for me and i will tell you, no, i have not. donald trump's debate denine was followed this week by several women coming forward to accuse him of past sexual assaults. two of the women who spoke with "new york times" made separate allegations of being inappropriately touched. one of the women, a former businesswoman, said she was groped on a flight more than 30iers, and another in 2005 in trump tower. another woman told "the palm beach post confession that she was groped 13 years ago. a writer for "people," wrote that he forcefully kissed her. thursday trump delivered a speech in which he denied it all. >> these claims are all

fabricated. they're pure fiction and outright lies. these events never, ever happened. the most consistent claim seeming to contradict donald trump comes from none other than donald trump himself whose own states about his behavior sounds remarkably like what he's being accused offic take a listen how three described their encounters. >> all of a sudden his hands were all over me. when hi started putting his hand up my skirt, that was it. that was it. >> he pushed me up against the wall, had his hands all over me, tried to get up my dress again. >> the person on my right, unbeknownst to me at the time was donald trump, put their up my skirt. he did touch my vagina through my underwear, absolutely. >> now listen to donald trump speaking in general about women back in 2005.

>> when . this is 1997 miss usa contestant in an exclusive better view with nbc news. >> it was at that time where he turned to me and embraced me and gave me a kiss on the lips. i remember being shocked, because i would have just thought to shake somebody's hand, but that was his first response with me. i remember -- i mean, i was very young, and i remember feeling embarrassed, like wanting to turn and wipe my mouth. >> this is donald trump again speaking in general about women. here is the allegation from a former miss usa contestant who was 18-year-old when she

competed in 2002. >> our first introduction to him was when we were at the dress rehearsal and half naked changing into our bikinis, to have the owner come waltzing in when we're naked, or half naked in a very physically vulnerable position. similar claims were made to buzzfeed by five former contestants inhe miss teen usa pageant. again nbc news has not confirmed the allegations, but here is donald trump on howard stern's show in 2008, describing similar behavior. another woman joined that list of accuser friday, when

summer zervos, a former contest enon "the apprentice" came forward with this story. >> i pushed hi chest, put space between us. he repeated my words back to me, get real, as he began thrusting his genitals. he tried to kid me again, and i want, dude, you're tripping right now, attempting to make it clear i was not interested. joining me is gloria allred. your client was obviously very emotional in that interview. what finally prompted her to come forward? >> well, the "access hollywood" tapes that were broadcast more than a week ago, and then not only the crude, vulgar

disgusting misogynistic sexist language of mr. trump on those tapes, but his denial in the debate with secretary clinton that he had ever actually acted on any of the language that he used in that tape, where he had suggested that he grabs a woman in her genital area, yew the "p" word, where he talks to women -- using the "t" word. this was really the trigger, the tipping point that hurt her so much, because she felt that she then had to come forward. she did so rereluctantly, joy, it's not something she wanted to do, but it's something she felt she had a duty to do. i want to read you the response of the donald trump campaign to summer zervos's allegations. they said, to be clear, i never

met her at a home or greeted here inappropriately a decade ago. your bones to that? >> well, actually at the press conference, even before they released it, we talked to the press about what she said in the e-mails. it's interesting they left out what we said at the press conference. in an e-mail, summer stated, quote, your interesting in me as a potential employee meant the world to me. your interesting as anything more blew my mind and i lost my footing. i had been incredibly hurt by my previous action, and i hope to hear from you -- what this was all about is she was writing e-mails in april of this year, she knew that his secretary

would see, trying to get a meeting with him to confront him and ask him to apologize to her for what she alleges happened in the beverly hills hotel where she alleges that he kissed her open mouthed, tried to get her into the bedroom, where she alleges he groped her breast. again, kissed her open-mouthed is her allegation, was very upsetting. she thought they were going to dinner, but instead she alleges that she was taken to his room and then his bedroom and this is what happened. >> lastly, gloria, what is the plan in terms of summer zervos. is she planning any legal action? >> no, she's not, but just last night the trump campaign released a statement from a first cousin, who is a huge trump supporter, slamming her, and i just want to say about that particular person, he had

worked in the family restaurant until a few months ago when he no longer worked there, and that's where summer works. he has been very hostile to summer ever since he left several months ago. we now have the name of a third person. her name is ann russo, who remembering that summer told her about her allegations of trump and what she alleges is improper conduct towards her some time ago, and she believes that summer has very high moral and ethical standards and is an honest, very honest person. >> gloria allred, thank you. i want to bring in accomplice cal consultingant and civil right lawyer lisa bloom, who represents jill hart. tara, i want to come to you first, the allegations being made now include some former contestants does this kind of

conduct by donald trump towards some of these women ring true for you? >> yes, absolutely. when i was on the show, as i stated many times, and i want to keep stating it because i think it's important, this man is running for president. when i was on the show, what people don't no is you're sequestered after you're fired from the show, you're sequestered. you cannot go home until filming ends, at which time you're sequestered with all of the other contestants who had been fired. people come back from the boardroom, they come to the corporate housing where we were, one of the women specifically -- i will never forget this -- she said in the boardroom donald trump said to her, it was a home depot task and she said he said i will show you my nine-inch power tool. that's something she specifically said. i would suspect she's probably not going to come forward. i don't know why, given that donald trump is running for president of the united states, but this is all consistent with who donald trump is. he takes advantage of people

over whom he has power, and that is what sexual assault and sexual harassment are about. it's about taking advantage of people. even if you take aside the women and allegations about his behavior there, what about all the small business owners? again taking advantage of people over whom you have power. so we are to believe all of these small business owners, some of whom went out of the business, active lawsuits on the report, lawsuits against him about not being paid. all of these people, the women, all of these women who said he said things, and it's been consistent with what he said and all the stories are consistent with each other. we are to suspend belief and believe now that he is the victim and none of this occurred? >> will issa bloom, your client jill hart is both, somebody whose business suffered in terms of not being paid by donald trump, there was a lawsuit about that, and she has these allegations of having been sexually assaulted or, you know, she posted a facebook piece

defending herself again people who were attacking her. give us an update on how she's doing and whether your comments on whether donald trump is essentially the prosecution's best witness gins himself. >> in what other case would we have a -- and a taped confession, yet still people want to believe that perhaps donald trump didn't do this. i'm produce to represent jill harth. she was the first one to come out three months ago and talk about her allegations of sexual harassment and abuse. she filed a lawsuit in 1997. so to ought thoughs who say why didn't they come out sooner? well, jill harthd. she filed a lawsuit, and donald trump settled hers three weeks later, and settled it very, very quickly. she's very gratified that other women are now coming out and

telling their story and really backing up what she has been saying all along, but she gets a lot of hate on social media, a lot of disgusting misogynist kind of stuff that women again whenever they speak out. her business has suffered. she's a makeup artist, and sell makeup, and she does a beautiful job. television studios in new york saying they don't want to hire her anymore, because she's controversyial. this is what women go there. nevertheless she's standing firm on her allegations, and i'm proud to stand with her. >> i want to play a couple examples of the defense being mounted by donald trump. he's also accused, and i'm trying to find the name of the woman -- >> ms. leeds. >> this is jessica leeds, this is donald trump responding to her allegations. take a listen.

>> i was sitting with him on an airplane, and he went after me on the plane. yeah, i'm going to go after her. believe me, she would not be my first choice. that i can tell you. >> gloria, you have long represented women involved in cases vogue -- the idea of going after the looks of one of the accusers saying he would not have gone after her because of her looks, your thoughts. >> it's absurd. then he also suggested something similar about hillary rodham clint clint clinton. it's just offensive. we know sexual predators will go after anyone who is available, matter the person's race, , no frankly sometimes tno matter th

person's gender. kind of like a bill cosby. it turns out to they it's the wrong place to be the wrong person, because they're considered a target. that's what happens to so many women. i've been representing women who have been raped or sexually assaulted or sexually battered for how years, and i still have so many women contacting me about donald trump. so if donald trump thinks that these attacks on summer, on the other women are going to stop them from going forward, are going to intimidate them, silence them, he is absolutely wrong about that. women are now empowered, joy, and they are not going to be silent anymore. >> gloria all-veld tara, and lisa bloom will all be back. next donald trump's conspiracy theory on who is really behind the allegations against him. stay with us. you can go ahead and stick with that complicated credit card

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right now i am being viciously attacked with lies and smears. it's a phony deal i have no idea who these women are. i have no idea. this whole election is being rigged. these lies spread by the media without witnesses, without backup or anything else, the largest shareholder in the times is carlo slim, as you know he comes from mexico. >> the latest bogieman is carlo slim, he's a "new york times" shareholders, does donate to the clinton foundation. trump suggests those two

facts -- in a statement he said, he doesn't know him, he's never met him in any way, he didn't do anything about his personal life, and to be honest he doesn't care about his personal life. we never get involved in politics. joining me is joe coni son and author of "man of the world." . tourre, and lisa bloom is back with us as well. this idea that he's saying he has no emidea who these women are. they can document sort of that i presence in his prence, and one of the trump's own witnesses, a very interesting gentleman from great britain. >> he's great. >> essentially corroborates the fact that donald trump was on the airplane with one of his accusers, jessica leeds.

>> i'm sure his followers find that a very easy idea. this re-traumatizes those women and other women who have been through this sort of thing and the essentially charge that he did not take women seriously, does not respect them, so he's not saying you're even pretty enough for me to molest or grope, like this is about sex, and of course lisa would say this is about power, not sex. in my 20s, the notion was you can approach a woman anywhere on the street, anywhere at a restaurant, and become a pickup artist, saying those things that drawing her out of the walking down the street to wanting to date you. that was a thing, right in but i'm only talking to women. he's taking that to thenth degree that i can touch them

anywhere, they're not real people, but toys for my enjoyment. that's at the core of rape culture, i can do anything to a woman at any time, and he's continuing to do that on a strides level that's just absurd. >> joe, one of the things that you are seeing among the on supporters of trump, and there are fewer and fewer we were able to compel and do that support on the show. we had no luck doing that today. what they do is essentially say you have to believe the women who accused bill clinton of sexual misconduct, but you cannot believe the now dozen women who are accusing donald trump? >> i'm in favor of evidence-based journalism in all of these cases. as you know, joy, we looked at the cases involving bill clinton in my first book, and i discussed some of that day, paula jones, kathleen -- why one

would believe or not believe them. i think you have to apply the same standards. when he says he doesn't know them, though, natasha stoynoff, he certainly knew her, and so did his wife. i fills as tourre just said, the requested he's attacking them, does that mean if they were pretty enough, he would admit that he did attack them? this whole defense is very strange. also the idea that, you know, women come forward. why would they do this? why would they say these things? it's one of the reasons that people actually believe some of the accusations against clinton, because the women who came in, had nothing to gain. orders it turned out did have some to gain. paula jones, gennifer flowers,

there were cases of remuneration then, but certainly when a woman comes forward and challenges something as powerful as trump, there is a presumption that she's taking a risk for a reason. >> to that point, lisa, one of the accusers of donald trump right now in palm beach said on friday that she is leaving the country, that she's in fear, she's been threatened, her address has been given out, so you're starting to see trump supporters in some cases issue real threats against some of these women. >> yes, it's very painful. it's been painful for my client jill harth for the last three months, and painful for another woim i've been consulting with over a week, who really can't decide whether she wants to come in, because she knows what she's in for. what donald trump doesn't understand is the initial assault is not flattery. you say my mom's client, summer

crying in that press conference yesterday, she could barely get the words out. it's so traumatic. it stays with us for the rest of our lives. sometimes we can put it past us, hopefully women can and be forward-looking, but to do that requires a tremendous effort. i want to say about bill clinton, it's true that bill clinton, like donald trump, has been accused of sexual assault, but the difference is bill clinton denies it and donald trump brags about it. i think that's an important distinction. i feel like i have to play -- this is not directionally about the allegations, but one of the challenges that we've had is to get people to come on and defend this behavior. i have to play dr. ben carson for you. he was a "morning joe" and he was debating these issues in a unique way. let's listen, please.

>> are you saying these women are lying? >> that's your characterization, because you knee to characterize it that way to make me the bad guy. >> no, no, no, you just said. >> no, stop, stop, stop, stop. >> we're not going to stop. it's a simple question. >> can you turn your microphone eve so i can talk? >> no, no, it's a simple question, yes or no. nobody is trying to paint you as a straight guy. we just want straight talk. >> it doesn't matter whether they're lying or not. >> tourre you had a visceral reaction to that. >> when he says shut her mike off, it's like that is so deeply offensive, you're a guest. she just asked you a question. do you not like the question? can you not answer the question, mr. brain surgeon? i mean, look, the notion of timing which they keep bringing out is fairly obvious.

he just bragged about it and then lied about it. that's why people are coming out now. of course when the first person comes out, then others feel comfortable to also come out. there's not a mystery, there's not a global cabal behind this, and then people will be like, wait a minute, i have the truth. >> lisa? >> there's a gender issue. there's studies about how in mixed groups of men and women, men feel women are constantly interrupting. when you break down the data, men interrupt a lot more. donald trump was complaining she's getting all the talking time, and when the data broke down, he had more talking time. i thought it was so interesting that dr. carson yesterday wanted the female guest's mike cut off when joe scarborough was saying please answer the question, and nobody is calling for joe's mike to be turned off.

>> how damaging. i mean, you studied this during the clinton campaign of 1992 that gennifer flowers was the only allegation out there. it wound ultimate not being able to derail the candidate. >> they handled it very differently. bill and hillary clinton went on television, talked about the fact that pain had been caused in their marriage by her husband, without him specifically admitting anything that was nobody else's business. i think that helped a lot. this is not what trump is doing. he's saying none of this is true, it's a global conspiracy by international bankers to frame him. i think what lisa said is very important. the cases of paula jones, kathleen willie, and -- have all been looked at be prosecutors and not found credible enough. paula jones' case was dismissed in course. those cases have been dealt with in an impartial forum. this is not what we're talking

about here with trump. >> and it will go on. i suspect we will hear more, because women are feeling empowered to come forward. thank you to both of you, and tourre will be right back. there's much more a.m. joy right after the break. ♪ the highly advanced audi a4. ♪

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in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink coming up next, former "'prentice" staff and contestants saying donald trump said offensive things during the taping of the show, and they still exist. so where are they? that's next. picking up for kyle.

here you go. you wouldn't put up with part of a pizza. um. something wrong? so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? you want the whole thing? yes, yes! live whole. not part. aleve. in view of the extreme public importance of the information on the recorded material, which would reveal mr. trump's conduct while filming "the apprentice" it is in the public's interest that disclosure be made immediately unless there's a legal prohibition on doing so.

your immediate attention and response is requested. time is of the essence. >> attorney gloria allred this week called on mgm to release on-air footage of donald trump from "the apprentice." more than 20 staffers and contestants say he used offensive language form the trump says these outlandish claims fabricated by publicity hungry, opportunistic, disgruntled -- the owner of, citing confidentiality agreements. also back with me is women's rights attorneys gloria allred.

first to my aapprenti here. this tantalizing tweet -- i assure you when it comes to the trump tapes, there are far worse. randall, do you think that is probably the case? >> i don't see how it could not be the case. we had a minute from "access hollywood" on a bus. for "the apprentice" we had cameras rolling nonstop. when you were walking around you were still mike up? >> 24/7, cameras rolled nonstop from the beginning of production all the way to the end. we have independent accounts who independently reported having witnessed and seen donald making comments about women's looks, who he want to do sleep with, our experience corroborates that. in that footage there inevitably

going to be footage that corroborates all of what we heard before. >> did you ever hear him make untoward remarks. >> yes, i did. i heard him commenting on wanting to sleeping with women on the cast and asking other men if -- that was relatively common knowledge he would talk about women, they would stop production to focus on a woman had he had an attraction for. reprehensible behavior in any environment. >> one of the potential features is the similarity physically of the women that are making these allegations. pointedly interestingly enough of the african-american contestants are making these allegations. does that have any snick to you? >> i think donald trump has -- he's on the record again. if he was brought to court, he would be the star witness against himself, because he's on the record saying that plaques

are lazy, saying derogatory things about african-american people in and the african-american community. i i think it absolutely lines up with the fact that he does not view black people on the same level as white people. from a policy perspective, the notion how he views women, how he views people of color, people of certain religious backgrounds, how he views the lbgtq community, the notion that that won't impact his policy positions, is ridiculous. >> gloria, you're calling for mgm to release the additional footage. mark burnett issued a statement on wednesday refuting the idea that he is withholding it because he is a trump supporter. he says i am not now and have never been a supporter of donald trump's candidacy.

but he's still not backing the dwrd of releasing the tapes. as a legal matter, so the confidentiality agreements that mgm has put forward in your mind, are those a bar to them releasing these tapes? >> joy, it's an excellent question. the question that i raised is why won't he release the contracts, so that we can examine them and see whether if in fact it is true that there's some sort of legal reason why he cannot release them? what i suggested was i should be able to come in, meet with him and his lawyers, look at those contracts, and i can tell the public whether i believe in fact they are prohibited from releasing them. or in the alternative, i suggest if he didn't want to meet with me, how about a panel of three retired judges from the los angeles county superior court who could come in, look at them in camera, meaning

confidentally, look at the contracts and then tell the public whether in fact it's true that mgm is unable to release this raw footage. i think it's in the public interest for people to know. i think we should have a right to know what mr. trump says, behind closed doors. is he making racist statements? is he making sexist statements? is he acting out on the kinds of statements that he said that he admitted to on that billy bush on the bus tape? we should be able to know. this is really important to an informed electorate so they can decide who they should be voting for in november. >> that means you do business with donald trump subsequently if you win, and one of the allegations that they have made is he's very professional in terms of his behavior in the boardroom outside of the show, but you've had catherine walker, a form ever 'prentice producer talk about his way of doing

business, at least on the show. >> did he comments on women who clearly he found sexually attractive? yes. the team all felt that the project manager in this case was the reason they lost the task, and when i said that to him, he said, you mean, and made a face and the gesture of, it was the woman with the large fake breasts? yes, the woman -- so that was how he described her. >> that is on the sex cyst piece of what you heard. on the racial piece of it, you have li'l jon confirmed that trump refused to him as uncle tom, until he asked him to stop. outside the show, as a business executive, did this kind of behavior continue? >> i worked for the trump organization for a year. over the course of that year, i didn't directly observe donald

making racist or sexist comments, but i can say having been in the organization, i did not see diversity at the executive levels. there were no persons of color in any executive capacity in my year, and he makes the defense that because he promoted -- i don't know how you can reconcile that. it's not look roger ailes didn't have people in executive capacity. we can cite individuals who promoted women, but still demonstrated this behavior. my finale is another example. he asked me to share my title. there is a pattern of him -- and because we find exceptions to the rule doesn't mean the rule doesn't apply. >> tara, another sort of aspect of donald trump's character that's been demonstrated, is this tendency or at least he's made fun of one reporter who had a disability.

marlee matley coming forward saying he was essentially referred to as retarded. so this even goes to the putting down of something liable marlee matlin. >> exactly. i believe for donald trump, this is about power, because it's always taking advantage of people that he sees himself having a power over. so for someone like her, he saw her as lesser. essentially what we're learning, if you're not a while male, he pretty much sees you as lesser. >> thank you ver, tara, randall and gloria. i appreciate you all. in the next hour, gloria ste steinham on michelle obama's epic speech. if you're searching other travel sites to find a better price...

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coming up, faced with mounting allegations of sexual assault, trump supporters play the blame game and come up with beyonce. the built ey hive is not amused. that's coming up. don't go anywhere. he was 34% eastern european. so i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors we thought was italian was eastern european. this is my ancestor who i didn't know about. he looks a little bit like me, yes. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story. get started for free at ancestry.com

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you've got to watch your polls, because i hear too many stories about pennsylvania, certain areas. i hear too many bad stories, and we can't lose an election because of you know what i'm talking about so go and vote and then check out areas. >> we have an election coming up november 8th. so important that you get out and vote. so important that you watch other communities, because we don't want this election stolen from us. we don't want this election stolen from us. we do not want this election

stolen. donald trump supporters have followed his lead in blaming his troubles on other communities. take a listen to how spokesperson katrina pierson scland the "access hollywood" tape. >> mr. trump said, who he thought was in private -- >> that doesn't matter. >> that came to light later. okay. laura ingraham found fault in the obama's musical tastes. >> michelle obama and barack obama, they welcome various musicians and so forth to the white house over the years. don't pretend, go up to new hampshire and pretend i haven't heard anything said like this, beyonce, who's so talented, she's a talented person, she feels the need to sexualize herself in the most -- it's so

unnecessary. >> and trump adviser -- >> hilla clinton threatens that she finds the language on that bus horrific, but in fact she likes language like this i came to [ bleep ], when they -- i take him to red lobster. that happens to be a line from beyonce, her favorite performer, who says she idolizes and would like to imitate. >> um-hmm. joining me now is khalil muhammad, professor after hard varied's kennedy school and author of "the condemnation of blackness." . how, i'm stirring -- >> spilling tea all over the place. >> the thought of taking donald trump's words, which were about sexual assault, full stop,

in 2005 and laying them on beyonce and hip-hop, your thoughts. >> it's the oldest trick in the book, which is to deflect from the problem at hand, which is male aggression and sexual predation. beyonce can talk about whatever she wants to talk about in her music and with her body. we have already been down this road with the feminist revolution. it's also clearly the opening clip about what we do on these polls about voters intimidation is also the fundamental way in which voters suppression has happened over the coursef 150 years in this country since the 15th amendment. putting those two things together, we really have a candidate of who is calling for racism at the polls, racial violence and intimidation, at the same time essentially saying i am not responsible for a rape culture country which of course he is now the poster boy for. >> using formation is perhaps

the worst, because that's about self-empowering, you might be the next bill gates. there she's talking about her consensual marriage. if things go well, i'm going to reward you as the powerful economic figure rather than you taking mess to the mall. but just the nothing of black people are really the problem. i was thinking about your question about when trump blames blacks for potential voter i.d., he gets five for his folks, so plaques are the enemies/untrust worthy. i/we are the victim of them, right? the system is rigged. here's example of it. this creates a pre-excuse for the trump loss, and it gets to the voter fraud thing, which is conservative g-spot right in the middle of it. so five things with one little phrase. watch out for them, and i mean

like -- >> they don't even have to take him to red lobster as a reward. let's play one of the donald trump's supporters. this is cbs charlottesville station, with a package about armed protesters outside an office for jane ditmar. armed. take a listen. >> he turned sideways to be sure to see that he had an open-carry gun, which is legal, it's fine, but it's intimidating. >> reporter: park says it's his legal right. >> rear not a threat to anybody. the only threat is ignorance. >> reporter: volunteers say they support his right, but not his action. >> if he wants to support his candidates, that's fine, but don't come here and stare into the office all day and expos your weapons. >> khalil, we can have a lot of fun, but that's actually a serious thing that donald trump

is encouraging. >> absolutely right. we just saw a report come out about you ubiquity of guns, handguns -- the shift from long guns to handguns as the most common form of gun ownership in this country, which we can track over the course of the eight years of the obama administration and this apocalyptic fear that with obama as president, black people will take over. the confluence of an armed poll watcher now responding to trump's dog whistles creates tremendous problems and fear for people going to the polls. you have a right to be afraid to go to the polls if you happen to be african-american or in these rural counties. >> and basically accused of pre-stealing the election. >> fear they're going to have taco trucks on every corner, fear that they're going to be overrunning the polls places, and elect another person who is

not a white man. so much of it is about fear. you talked about it in 13th, about the fear runs through black bodies, and politicians use that to activate this while voter base that -- joy, this election is triggering me in every possible way. >> and you talked about it "13" see the movie. khalil is in there as well. always great to see you. up next, how the latest allegations are causing a split among evangelical christians. one men says he would stick with trump even if the allegations were proven true. and gloria steinham joins us after the blah break. nk card i bought all the framework...

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because i believe he's the best qualified to be president of the united states. i'm not going to say anything to besmirch the character of any of these women. it's the heat of an election. >> it stands to reason that the allegations of unwanted sexual advances against women may cost him support among evangelical christians. as you just heard, jerry falwell jr. maintains he's backing trump come wha may. nowiberty university isn't your average campus. it's the largest christian university in the world it's where senator ted cruz kicked off his campaign in 2015, and where mike pence received light applause on wednesday when mentioning his running mate's name. a group known as liberty united against trump have rebuked theirs university president, saying we want nothing to do with donald trump.

he's made his name by ma lining others. joining me now also is the revere reverend, i do want to note we did read out to sever raunch trump supporters, but none agreed to join us. reverend barber, you've been very critical both of the media for generalizing about evangelical christians and making the jerry falwells of the world emblematic of all christians, but also the religious right for the complicated message. if you could elaborate, sir? >> thank you so much, i just want to say thank you for -- i'm actually home right now. what we see with this right

evangelical right is a form of heresy, a form of think logical malpractice. i'm an evangelical. and evangelicalism in the bible starts with a critique of systems of poverty. it's very easy. luke chap 4, versus 18, the period of the lord is upon me, to the poor and then it talks about the broken-hearted, the sick, the blind, all of those who have been made to feel unacceptable. it's a strange form of theology that traces back to those who were able to support slavery on monday, but didn't go to church on sunday, where you dismiss the issues. you dismiss a candidate who wants to take people's health care. that's christian, what he wants to deny living wages, you don't have any critique. now with all this ripe everyone and pathology alleged toward women, and as long as you suggest he's right on the

supreme court and prayer and school, that somehow that's a christian's that's think logical malpractice that borders on heresy. >> yet, robby, your poll this is a poll of october 5th through 9th, to give our views a few bites. trump up 65 to 16 with white evangelical voters, going on again. white mainline property assistants are tied right now between donald trump and hillary clinton, 42/42. then you go to catholics. white catholics, donald trump 42, hillary clinton 46, and all catholics hillary clinton up considerably more. what accounts for the differences between these three groups of crustance, and how does race and ethnicity play into it? >> i think this race is laying bare smozing that been with us for at least three decades. we have seen essentially. if you look at every exit poll,

what you see it this divide between really white christians as a whole, property assistants, catholics, white christians leaning toward a republican candidates, the most voting for about 8 in 10 candidates for about three decades, and basically everyone else. i think that often gets lost, but it really has been this white christians lean on the one hand toward republican candidates and non-white christians, not christian religious leaning -- and religiously unaffiliated, but this election is actually showing us something that there may be a track in this white christian strategy for the republican party, because what we see is basically white evangelical property assistants standing pat, about two thirds, and saying this is even after some of these early allegations.

our last poll actually covered 48 hours of these allegations coming out and videotape coming out with these lewd comments. white evangelical property assistants standing by their man at two thirds, about you if you look at non-white evangelicals in the country, it's a mirror image, many 0% support hillary clinton. so there's a massive racial divide in the evangelical community. >> really quickly, robby, sort of what are the underlying issues that keep white evangelical voters so firmly in the trump camp, even given what erick erickson has said gnome repettants -- is it tax cuts? what are the issues keeping them there? >> i don't think it's issues at all. what i think it is -- what i have argued is trump has converted them into nostalgia

voters. the university students notably used the word values. that was the script, the old arguments, but that's not the language these other evangelical leaders are using. robert jeffers, for example, are saying things so bad that we need a strong leader to shake things up. it's a crisis argument, not a principled argument. it's a crisis argument that the ends justify the means argument, and that we need someone like donald trump, who will restore our power he looks at evangelicals and saying you were going like this, now you're going like this, and i'm going to restore power to the christian churches. that more than anything is where his slogan is resonating, turning back the clock when they had more cultural influence and power, but now their numbers have been declining. >> khalil, when robby talks about nostalgia, he's talks

about 1950s, which clearly explains why black evangelicals are not on this side. what do you make of that, just in the context of these religious communities. >> i think party affiliation, first of all, to use a bad pun in this moment, is everything. they've been republican voters essentially since 1964, and especially since 1968. for them, this is fundamentally instrumental politics what's interesting in how we think about putting aside the cultural issues is the transactional nature of it at this point. donald trump is their person. it doesn't matter, and it really calls into question now 50-year reappraisal of the very nature of the republican party's commitment to values. we really do have to go back and look at all this again and say was it ever really about beliefs? wall it just about drumming up support, because those voters

really don't care what donald trump does. >> and reverend barber, to that very point, you have people -- they talk about morality. we heard a lot about morality during the impeachment of bill clinton, sullying the presidency with immoral behavior, with this affair with monica lewinsky. where is that talk now among white evangelicals? where is the talk of morality? >> that's the real question. you know, where are you now? i question -- we say white evangelicals. i've been all over the country with dr. forbes and others, stir simone, tracy blackman, we've seen thousands who join us on the revival, for a revolution of values. the problem is the way we framed this, you had a movement in the 1800s called a redemption movement that was a reaction to reconstruction. you had this formation during the -- after the 1960s to try to

undermine the moral framework of dr. king, talked about health care and poverty being a moral issue, what we have now is this suggestion that the only moral values are prayer in the schools, abortion, and where you stand on talks cuts and homosexuality. if you do a theological, that is are not the major issues. the problem is that the scriptures, justice, health care, living wages and how you street the least of these, there are 2,000 scriptures that speak to those issues. we have aloud many times for people to suggest they have a values platform without a critique without someone like myself or your panelists challenges so-called white evangelicals. i think the name in itself is problematic, because it does not line up thee ologically.

where are you on health care? where are you on living wages? where are you on the treatment of lifting up you of women? where are you when it comes to scriptures lieu woe unto those who legislate evil and rob the poor of their rights and make women and children their -- that's an actual text in the bible, isaiah 10. so we have tremendous problem with the whole theological framing. we thank you for adding your voices on to this. thank you to this terrific panel very much. thank you guys for being here. before we go to break, make sure you join in on the "a.m. joy" buzz. thanks to all our wonderful treats we have trended nationally every weekend for the past sick weeks. past six weeks.

thanks to all my lovely social media followers who keep the conversation going hours after the show ends. up next, gloria steinem on hillary clinton and michelle obama's ace mazing speech. making simple, smart cash back choices... with quicksilver from capital one. you're earning unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. like on that new laptop. quicksilver keeps things simple, gary. and smart, like you! and i like that. i guess i am pretty smart. don't let that go to your head, gary. what's in your wallet?

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on thursday first lady michelle obama addressed donald trump's 2005 predatory remarks, which she says have shaken her to her core. she gave a personal and historic lens between the possible first woman president and donald trump. this election with this level of vitriol is happening against the backdrop of this reality. one of o every six women have been a victim of rape or attempted rape. more than one third of one -- and women working full time make 80 cents for every dollar that a man earns, a statistic that varies based on ethnicity. i'm joined by gloria steinem. founder of "ms." magazine. >> thank you. i'm dying to get your reaction to michelle obama's speech. >> she's like a prophet on the

mountain, you know? she is speaking the feelings of so many millions of women and men. i don't think there's any voice in the country right now that is more credible, that is more trusted, that is more prophetic. it's so interesting. i think it's possible -- i mean, this is like -- it's most like the anita hill moment, except it's multiplied by millions, and it's possible that she may have succeeded in changing people's consciousness even more than her husband, though i think her husband is a great president. >> you've been fighting this fight to sort of define and have people understand what it means to be a woman and seen as less than. become in the workplace at a time when you couldn't even good to hr and talk about harassment, when women just almost expected to be treated in a lesser way,

in the sort of "mad men" era. roe v. wade, birth control, thousand his contributed. >> i think we need to go back to square one and understand the first step in irhierarchy is controlling reproduction and therefore controlling the bodies of women. that's the reason for the invention of the idea of masculine superior and feminine inferior. it wasn't always so. this is relatively new in human history. we need to understand how basic it is. it isn't just a little thing over there. every hierarchy starts that way. if there's a racism or class or caste, then it's even more so. it's fundamental. though i have to say it isn't necessarily involving most men. when we say that one this five

young women on college campuses has experienced sexual asought, it does not mean that one in five men, it's very important to say that, but mass clint is like a drug that some people get addicted to. therefore in new york state, i think the average rapist has raped 14 times. there are predators unleashed by this, but it's important to understand it isn't necessarily most men. >> i think michelle obama made the brilliant point that the things that donald trump defines as locker room -- >> i'm so grateful for the athletes who have said not in my locker room, thank you very much. >> meanwhile, one of the outcomes of this horror that we have been experienced talking about donald trump's words and deeds has been this huge spike in calls to rape crisis hotlines, section qulul assault hotlines following the

allegations of donald trump. you've seen many women come forward to burden themselves, allegations of things he did to them. there's a catharsis that could be a small up side? >> no, i think there is an up side, depending on what we do with it. just as anita hill's suffering did not come to the right conclusion, and just as, you know, one of clarence thomas on the court which has given us bush's president -- he's been the deciding vote in so many ways, nonetheless it was a moment of consciousness and understanding that caused women all over the country to realize, wait a minute, i'm not alone, i'm not crazy. i think that is happening now, too. i mean, it can be positive, it depends on what we do. >> at the same time, that brings up the point that clarence thomas was accused in a public

form, nothing came of it. he was defended even by some democrats, you like at somebody like roger ailes, conservative women working for conservative media outlet, but he is paid tremendous amounts of money to go away, now advising somebody as president of the understand, but that's a relatively senate judiciary committee who put clarence thomas there and the majority of the senate that's a relatively small pool, right? >> sure. >> so the change it makes in the laer scope can be very different from this, because the smaller scope is also kind of male dom salesman superior and doesn't want to think about it. >> just to go in, not only do you have the horrible statistic about one in six women -- just in terms of workplace harassment, the national center in to 13 put up a statistic that

one -- and i'm wondering if what we're hearing about donald trump, the apprentice was his job -- that this is also one of the things causing women to rethink the import of this election at large. >> i think so. there probably could not be a more democratic, in the little "d" sense in this issue, because so many people have experienced this. it's the interesting thing. i've been on the road just now in six states or something, and people are connected to the political process by their daily life experience the up side of donald trump's revelations and what he has brought into this scope is that it's no longer about some arcane issue that people think, oh, that doesn't affect my lives. no, this definitely affects their lives. >> lastly, do you think that having potentially a first woman president if hillary clinton

were to win, will this be like the barack obama experience, where having this first opens a wound that in the short run exacerbates the misogyny in our society? >> well, probably. i don't think it's necessarily most people, but when people who have been raised in a hierarchy and think they have a spot in it, and they see somebody above them who's the wrong group go a little crazy, and we've seen the ultra-right wing go crazy, you know, if they had cancer and president obama had the cure, they wouldn't accept it, right? i mean, it's even self-destructive. >>iterally the case with -- >> and it's deep. as we've had talked about before, it's deep with women, in part because most of us, though there are many more nurturing men around, but most of us are still raised by women when we're little. we associate female authority with childhood, emotioniality, we don't see it as appropriate

to public life. we have to see a lot more women in public lives before it becomes right and normalized. so we're going to go through that, but it's -- it's it depends on what we do with it. consciousness is huge now. >> yes, absolutely. seeing you in public life and having you on the show and to talk to you is an honor. >> and it's an honor for me to see you, big time. >> god bless you. thank you very much for being leer. three men arrested for a plot to attack somali in kansas, we'll have that next. is found in the audi a4. with one notable difference... ♪ the highly advanced audi a4,

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four car bombs outside an apartment complex where somali muslim immigrants lived and where a mosque had been established. >> these charges are based on eight months of investigation by the fbi that have alleged the investigators deep into a hidden culture of hatred and vile also. it's alleged that theysh to this stockpiled firearms, ammunitions and explosive, they even prematter a manifesto describing their beliefs to be published after the bombing. one of them said the bombing would, quote, wake people up. joining mess is malcolm nance, all thor of the new book "the plot to hack america." malcolm, thanks so much for being here. i want to read you a quote from one of the complaints, a suspect that was a part of this group calling themselves the crusaders

reported as saying -- isle i'll give you one more quote, malcolm. this is a suspect also recorded saying thissh quote -- this is the kind of terrorist attack -- the sort of terrorism that was being plotted. your thoughts? >> well, this is classic american terrorism. okay? there's no need to use the word domestic. these are american citizens, planning and carries out mass murder. we've had this before in the united states, and we always see

xenophobia when we have they see rises in xenophobia and bigotry in the united states, that these groups come out, the militia groups, they form. then within each one, you will always find a small subgroup ready to take action. timothy mcveigh, for example, the terrorist who blew up the murrah building in oklahoma city. >> how much concern should we have? you have donald trump telling his supporters to, quote, watch certain communities tess polls. you also have hints he does not plan to accept the results of the election if he does not win. how much of a threat is this in terms of potential violence? >> i think it's going to be a great threat. you know me, i'm not an aalarmist by any sense of the imagination, but the indications are there, just in terms of the receipt ricks of the electorate.

we are hearing actually what we refer to in the intelligence business, eliminationist rhetoric. this plot to mass murder people, using four car bombs and other weapons systems followed up, which was going to take place the day after the election, sort of a wake-up call like timothy mcveigh did with the oklahoma city bombing, where he was expecting a race war to form and that all -- the people who were into his ideology would actually go around the nation and start mass murdering other people. we have to be on guard for this. the fbi obviously infiltrated this group, collected the information real time and averted a mass tragedy. >> are there ways the community, such as the somali community, can get protection from law enforcement oobt something like this that was a credible threat? there a mechanism for people to be protected in these circumstances? >> it's not incumbent on the somali community to get

protection from law enforcement. that's obviously what the fbi has done. it's incumbent on the communities where these militia men are living to actually report in information that they have on plots, which may be carried -- you know, which may be in sequence for execution. so, you know, you constantly hear this refrain that the muslim community has to report, well, obviously we have a problem amongst militia men and people who believe in the radical right-wing extremist ideologies who may be willing to mass murder other americans or newly arrived immigrants on the basis of some corrupt ideology. >> well said, malcolm nantz, thank you as always for being here. >> my pleasure. up next, nixon lawyer john dean will be here to talk about what he called donald trump's plan to make america a third-world country. stay with us. level of clean to it.

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if you say that you're about the constitution and you're opposed to what obama is doing with executive actions, because that shows he's a tie rant, but you're okay with a guy who says to his opponent in the middle of a debate, i'm going to throw you in jail? how does that work? welcome back to "a.m. joy." president obama stumping for hillary clinton on friday reminded us that threatening to jail one's political opponent is an afelon to democracy, yet locking up hillary clinton remains one of the most defining battle cries to the donald trump campaign. >> tell you what, for what she's done, they should lock her up. joining me now is john dean, a former white house counsel under president nixon, author of

"conservatives without conscience." thank you so much for being here. >> certainly. i want to start with a tweet from this morning from donald trump. this is what he said on wednesday during one of his stump speeches. take a look. >> on this corruption and collusion, it's just one more reason why i will ask my attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor. we have to investigate the investigation. i'm so embarrassed by what's taken place, and i'm very, very disappointed in congress, because our people, or politicians -- i don't know, do they make a deal where everybody protects each other in washington? maybe that's it. i really believe it.

>> she deleted the e-mails. she has to go to jail. john dean, as former white house counsel for richard nixon, how does that s-- >> i first heard it in the convention. i wrote a piece and thought i first heard it from donald trump, and realized that chris christie really started pounding his drum early and going through a litany of activities far beyond e-mails. it was absurd he said he was going to throw hillary clinton into jail for anything that she thought or done while secretary of state and during the campaign. as a result of that, i used a speech that robert jackson gave that is a warning to all u.s. attorneys. chris christie being a former u.s. attorney certainly is aware

of it, and that is that we do not target individuals. we target crimes. so for him to say that was really quite appalling, but apparently he has the inner ear of the candidate, and has encouraged him to take this course, and now it's become a recurrent theme in the campaign. i'm really quite surprised at it. it's really third-world stuff. we don't do this in mature democracies. we pass power -- if it were otherwise, george bush and dib chen quli would be in jail for war crimes. and -- >> that was the irony. as i finished the piece, a wire service came on that he's now being investigated for bridgegate. he must certainly hope that the investigator looking at him doesn't use his tactics.

wasn't the interference with the justice department one of the articles of impeachment against richard nixon? >> it was. it was. i'm not so sure, but we won't get into it this morning, that technically that was correct, but it was certainly one of the things that the impeachment committee looked at and said that he was interfering with the process, which indeed he was, but whether it was obstruction of justice is an es otaker question we won't go into. >> and john, people may remember you as it -- john yoo has said that trump reminds him of mus mussolini. >> both nixon and trumper -- and

nixon happened to be a better actor. he kept his authoritarian personality in private, in check, on his tapes. mr. trump has put it right out there for voters, many of whom seem to be attracted to it and want to follow it. >> i must say donald trump, if given the reins of power, with we would have a whole different system. >> indeed. thank you for being here to sort of sound of warning alarms. john dean, thank you for being here. >> thank you, joy. coming up at noon, donald trump's warnings about a rigged elections and what it means for his supporters if he doesn't win. first a member of the central park five will be here to fight back against donald trump. more on "a.m. joy" after the break. it's easy to love your laxative...

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because this is not just a lewd conversation, this wasn't just locker room banter.

this was a powerful individual speaking freely and openly about sexually predatory behavior. republican vice presidential nominee mike pence was asked about the first lady's remarks on thursday. this was his response. >> i have a lot of respect for the first lady and the job she's done for the american people over the last 7 1/2 years, but i don't understand the basis of her claim. >> let me repeat. mike pence doesn't understand the concepts that when donald trump talked about grabbing and kissing women without their consent, he was sdribing sexually predatory behavior. governor pencils didn't seem to understand another question he was asked. in at interview with scott light of 10 tv in ohio, pence heard the story of an 11-year-old girl who had visited the tv station as part of a girl scout trip. according to light, the girl says because of what she hears,

she looks in the mirror and feels bad about herself. what would you say to the little girl? >> you would say to any of my kids and anyone in this country, that donald trump and i are committed to a safer and more prosperous future, and the weak and feckless policy that hillary clinton promises continues the rise of terrorist threats that have inspired threats here at home, and we've seen an erosion of law and order in our strits, and we've seen opportunities and jobs evapor e evaporate. >> maybe governor pence just didn't have anything to say to that girl. whatever i do, wherever you are, you are beautiful and valuable, and deserve to be treated with respect. i'll speak with one of the men from the central park five, to discuss donald trump's refusal to acknowledge their innocence.

he was the fire-starter. >> let's all hate these people, because maybe hate is what we need. >> donald trump was calling basically for us to be murdered. definitely need to take a stance against having a person like donald trump be in the oval office. we can do this, and we must do this. >> my next guest says that donald trump's rhetoric and actions have made him afraid for his safety. in 1989, yus he have salam and four other teenagers, dubbed the central park five were wrongly convicted of beating and raping a white woman in central park. four of the teens gave co confessions that were coerced. trump took out a full-page ad in new york newspapers, calling for them to be executed. in 2002, after the men had spent years in jail, they were exonerated after another man

confessed and dna evidence linked him to the crime. new york city settled with the five men for $41 million. but none of that was enough to convince trump, who just last week told cnn, quote, they admitted they were guilty, the police doing the original investigation say th were guilty. the fact that the case was settled with so much evidence against them is outrageous. this week, yusef responded, writing in an op-ed, quote, when i heard trump's latest proclamation, it was the worst feeling in the world. i couldn't breathe. i'm overwhelmed with fear that an overzealous trump supporter might take matters into his or her own hands. and i'm joined how by yu sef salam. you spent 12 years in prison for a crime you did not commit. that your four friends were coerced into confessing to. talk about what it would mean to you if donald trump, having written that op-ed, calling for your murder, essentially, for

your execution, were to become president of the united states. >> you know, it's like us being a pariah all over again. here we were, already having done time for a crime we didn't commit. the real perpetrator finally came forward and said he did it. and donald trump still remains on the platform that he's been on, saying basically we're criminals, that the police department said we're criminals, and things of that nature. and when we look at the police department and what donald trump is saying, i mean, he's talking about bring back the death penalty, bring back our police. he wants to be the law and order president. i mean, law and order, despite wills of justice ran over us. despite wills of justice seem to continue to run over black and brown people in this country. and when you talk about them and us, the us -- you know, it's unfortunate we always have to prove ourselves innocent in the eyes of the law and eyes of the people, because as soon as we're placed in the public as a

suspect, we're always looked ats being guilty. >> and you also talked in your op-ed about a fear that a donald trump supporter as a vigilante tried to, you know, go after you or the other members of the central park five. you've been threatened. have you received threats, and upon what is that fear based? >> i think about the letters, the hate mail we received back in 1989, within the first few weeks, there was a tsunami of media reports, really calling for the public lynching of us. you know, donald trump throwing his hat into the ring in such a public way, calling for the death penalty to be reinstated. two weeks hadn't even passed. you know. and when you look at all of the other videotapes that the other interviews he's done, it's very, very clear that had he had his way, he would have been one of the individuals that would have kicked in our doors, dragged us from our homes and hanged us try trees in central park.

so today when we look at him going around the country, during his campaign and we look in the crowds and we see the people who are there, eno, ma'amored by th, protesting donald trump's candidacy and the reporters responding to those individuals, punching them in the face, pushing them, some women and elderly people, just really a horrible, horrible kind of scene. as i see that and hear donald trump still continue to be on his platform, it overwhelmingly causes me to be very fearful. because if not donald trump, then one of his supporters. if we see this kind of anger coming out during the presidency, this candidacy of donald trump's campaign, imagine what that means and what that really says. these people came out of the darkness and are showing their ugly heads. >> yeah. >> you know. and so for us as a people, we -- i mean, this shouldn't be where

we live in today. we're supposed to be progressing forward. we're supposed to be moving forward. but donald trump is continuing to pull us back into the darkness. >> yeah. well, yusef salam, thank you for being here. i think people should watch that video, as well as the central park documentary. i'm so sorry for what you went through. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. i appreciate it. thank you very much. and on a bit of an up note now, we have talked about a lot of dark subjects today. but yesterday i had the opportunity to be in louisville, kentucky, to be with the lovely ladies of the louisville chapter of the links incorporated. carolyn tandy and her fellow links were so gracious to me. and they even gave me an interesting proclamation that makes me a colonel. look at that. a colonel like colonel sanders. he was indeducted and so have i been. there are a lot of people that have gotten that nor,

including muhammad ali, my personal hero. thank you, ladies, for hosting me. that is great. be sure to watch "a.m. joy" tomorrow, sheinelle jones at the top of the hour. with a former miss north carolina who says that donald trump and his wife, melania personally inspected beauty pageant contestants. stay with us. eported accidents. boom. love it. [struggles] show me the carfax. start your used car search at the all-new carfax.com.

80% try to eat healthy, yet up to 90% fall short in getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more. add one a day men's gummies. complete with key nutrients plus b vitamins to help convert food into fuel. one a day. good day. i'm sheinelle jones in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it's high noon in the east. out west, here's what's happening. any minute now, we expect donald trump to speak at a rally in portsmou portsmouth, new hampshire. eight women accuse him of sexual misconduct. he says their stories are, quote, fiction. in the last 48 hours, he's been ramping up a conspiracy