and would senate democrats use the nuclear option on her pick? well, i think we know one thing that the hill will be fighting about, after inauguration. that is all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "with all due respect" starts right now. >> i'm john heilemann and i'm mark halperin. with all due respect to tom brady, would you say that your enthusiasm for donald trump has deflated? on the program tonight, donald trump's rigged rhetoric and republicans are shouting quid prowhoa! today the right wing went wild over new documents that there was change to one of the classification of clinton's secret e-mails. we'll talk about the merits and implications of that story later

in the program. but first, with just 22 days left before election day, the polls are a little confusing. yesterday, two national surveys told very different tales about the state of the race. one, from nbc news and "the wall street journal" shows hillary clinton hillary clinton leading by 11 points amongst likely voters in a four-way contest, 48 to 37% over trump. but another highly respected poll from abc news and "the washington post" suggests that clinton has only a four-point lead over trump, 47-43. today, monmouth university put out its own national survey, showing clinton up 12. and things are no clearer on the state level. quinnipiac university has a bunch of battleground polling the they put out today. shows clinton up eight in colorado, six in pennsylvania, four in florida, and a tied race in ohio. and a cnn/orc poll out today shows trump leading in ohio by four. cnn has clinton up well within the margin of error, one in north carolina, up two in nevada. two more polls i want to mention

to you. in new hampshire, wbur survey has clinton leading by just three percentage points in that state that trump visited over the weekend. and finally, in virginia, clinton has expanded her edge by a massive lead of 15 points according to the wildly respected christopher newport university poll that's out today. so, john, that's a lot of polling data. what is the actual state of the race right now? >> well, mark, i would like to say first on behalf of our friend, john ralston, who we'll be seeing in nevada when we head out to las vegas in the next day or so, if we -- if you do it, not neda, nevada. ralston's echoing in my ear. the second thing, i'm in chicago where i spent most of the day with david axelrod and we've discussed this polling at some length today. and one of the things, that david plouffe has made on different oaks. that right now if you look at all of these polls and take them altogether, a couple things are clear. one, hillary clinton has never been behind in this race.

donald trump is behind, still behind, nationally and in the battleground states. and if you look at those battleground state polls whereby where there's been less erosion than there has been on the national level when the worst of his problems began with the release of the "access hollywood" tape, it's still the case she's in a better position in the battleground states right now than barack obama ever was in 2012 against mitt romney and we all know how that turned out. >> yeah, he was an independent, and a stronger candidate in a lot of ways. look, trump is still the underdog, but if you look at the states he must win in order to get close to 270 electoral votes, this national polling is catastrophic for him. if he loses by five points nationally, he's not going to win the election and it will be a landslide. but the state polls that are from roughly the same period show that he can win. take a look at this map. give him all the romney states, including north carolina, a state where he's behind, that trump people can see, but where the state polls are closer. give him florida, give him iowa, give him the state where las

vegas is, the name of which i cannot pronounce. give him those, he's at 265. he still needs to get five more to win. and giving him all those states and a mental exercise. he's probably in behind in at least three of them. maybe a little bit aide in ohio and iowa. but my point is, as dire as things are for trump right now, if it has a little bit of a role nationally and if he can win those five states, he'll get the 265 electoral votes and who knows. he's the underdog, he has been all along. he has a horrible stretch, but the state polling where he's doing with independents and better with women shows that this thing is not over. >> but here's the thing. you're saying, it's a mental exercise to give him all those states. i think it's an exercise in mental gymnastics. you're saying that he's within striking distance, but behind, in a bunch of states that he has to win all of. he's like, he's within striking distance of pulling an inside straight. if it was just one or two states

that were must-win states for him, that he was behind in, i would see that there's like more of a plausible path. but we're talking here about a national wave that's moving against him, and in these state where you're right, he hasn't lost that much altitude, he's still where he was a few weeks ago, which was needing to win an inside straight and overcome obstacles -- >> well, take -- >> -- all of those states at once. >> take 'em one by one. ohio, he's generally been ahead and the clinton folks think he can win there. he can win iowa. the silver state is a question mark. then to florida and north carolina. huge enthusiasm in florida. spent a lot of time there. i don't know if he'll win it, but he could. it's down to north carolina where he is behind. in three of them, i think he's even or ahead. >> it's not -- but you're just -- you just basically said that you don't know he's ahead in florida. he's behind in almost all the florida polling. again, i just -- like if you

give him everything, then you're giving him -- he's still at 265. >> for a mental exercise, the three where he's even or ahead, then he's got to find a way to win florida or north carolina and the last five is really tough. >> he's still at 265. >> that's why he's deeply the underdog in this race. >> right. all right. we agree then, on that, for sure. donald j. trump has, for a while now, been doubling and tripling down, even quadrupling down on the whole this election is rigged refrain, even tugh when mike pence said the republican ticket would honor the will of the voters, even if hillary clinton wins. today, trump was at it again tweeting, quote, of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. why do republican leaders deny what is going on? so naive. to which hillary clinton's campaign manager, robby mook responded this way, on a conference call with reporters. he said, quote, donald trump's campaign is spiraling. he's desperately trying to shift

attention from his own disastrous campaign. he knows he's losing. and he's trying to blame that on the system. this is what losers do. and we're not going to even give it any credit by amplifying it. it's not true. the system is not rigged. mark, the conventional wisdom is that trump has been laying the ground work with a bunch of excuses in case he loses so he can justify his failure. but do you think in the short-term, ie, preelection, and in the medium to long-term, ie, post-election, do you think there are other objectives he's pursuing by advancing this line of argument? >> i think he's mostly dining it out of immaturity and impulsiveness, because he's surrounded by a bunch of people who believe in conspiracy theories. i think it's more that. and it's not achieving a short-term objective, because it's crowding out news. everybody's -- the press is going to focus on it. he's going to fight with republicans and democrats about it. and if trump has a chance to win and he doesn't have a very good chance right now, if he's

talking about change, if he's talking about washington needing to be shaken up, so,ic it's -- i don't think it's -- i don't think he's laying the groundwork as much as he's just impulsive and he likes to, you know, prod along. but i think for his own chances, it's ridiculously stupid. >> but, look, this is incredibey ly dangerous, the stuff he's saying. a, it's ridiculous. there's been a fair amount of study on the question of voter fraud over the last few years. we've had debates in state after state of voter i.d. laws and there have been a minuscule, de minimis number of proven cases of voter fraud on or before election day. that's the first thing. that's the first thing. and the second thing, it seems what they're trying to do, depress turnout in general and rile up the trump base to turn out and maybe they think that's the way to win. so maybe this is part of that. trying to rile up the base to kind of say, look, if you don't get out there and vote for us, they're going to steal the

election. that's the only way we can fight back. and the longer term thing is to try to build some kind of movement. i don't know if that's a business or what, but some kind of anti-hillary clinton movement after she gets elected president if she gets elected president, that he can somehow capitalize on in terms of power or money. >> fascinating to see how many of the days trump actually talks about things that will help him get elected versus not. up next, why the state department and the fbi released statements today about hillary clinton's e-mails. we'll talk about that story when we come right back. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink

the conservative political world is up in arms today over the release of new fbi documents about the agency's investigation into hillary clinton's e-mail practices as secretary of state. the new disclosures indicate that a state department official, under secretary patrick kennedy, last year urged

the fbi to downgrade the classification of one of clinton's e-mails. investigators wrote that kennedy made his e-mail request to an fbi agent, who in turn asked about getting the agency more office space overseas, leading to accusations of a possible quid pro quo. it is ambiguous at this hour about who brought up the idea and what that quid pro quo might have been, whether it was suggested, who might have suggested it, who didn't. we also know -- we do know the kennedy's request was rebuffed. no classification changes were made. still, republicans are seizing on this entire story. donald trump has been tweeting about it all day and his campaign call ee eed for kenned resignation this afternoon. paul ryan put out a statement saying, this investigation bears all the signs of a cover-up. mark, what do you make of this and where might it go? >> once again, i'll be a critic of the fbi. they should not be putting this stuff out, but having decided to put it out, they need to put it out with real transparency. there's so many redactions in

this, i understand why there's suspicion and i don't blame the republicans politically or substantively for demanding more information. it's not the role of the media or of the republicans to give the benefit of the doubt to people in government. it's just not. and while some of the initial reports of this have overstated what we know and how definitively a state department official might have been involved in the discussions about a quid pro quo, there are a lot of questions begged, and the fbi, i don't know what they're thinking. they're releasing these documents on an ad hoc basis with heavy redactions, only leading to more confusion, not clarification, and not public accountability. >> right. i agree with you. i think, you know, we have differed about various things on these topics over the last months, but i think the fbi, if you look at the totality of how they've handled disclosures and talking about this case for months now, it's been less helpful rather than more helpful and more confusing rather than clarifying. the clinton campaign is on the

record today saying that patrick kennedy's request was just part of the normal interagency haggling over classification that take place. i think it's strange that it would have been -- i don't think it's -- i don't think it should be regarded as customary given the fact this happened after it had become a matter of great public controversy. there are suspicions here and i think we should pursue them and try to figure them out. there may be more smoke here than fire, but there may also be fire. and i think this story will linger for some days until we get answers to questions. >> and republicans in this case should not be accused of being political, asking for more information, although trump and others have gone too far, based on what we know. but it's a real issue and should be investigated and republicans are going to talk a lot about it, for sure. >> agreed. there's another headache they're having in the clinton world having to do with the slow drip of wikileaks revelations that keep coming from john podesta's inbox. those e-mails, which allegedly are authentic, seemed to be

dropping a week ago, starting out with excerpts from wall street's speeches. the alleged commu e ed communiq through daily disclosures, mostly referred to as daily gossip, in which one brannon referred to chelsea clinton as a spoiled brat. there's one e-mail that republicans have grabbed on to that seemed to have mock cross-countries. there were one that reportedly showed president obama's polling on his past drug use. and then the holy grail, the transcripts of her three-page speeches to goldman sachs. that came out, and again, interesting stuff, but no game-changing revelations. john, a lot of interesting disclosures. some that speak to the culture

of the clinton campaign, but no megabomb shells so far. what does that leave the current damage and potential threat of what we expect to be a continued drum beat of disclosures? >> right, i mean, i agree these things are really interesting and some of them are quite damning. not in ways that are surprising to me and you. and again, i'll say, talking to david axelrod about this today for my podcast, the culture caucus, we had this conversation. he basically said that, you know, some of these things that were revealing about clinton's campaign culture, but they weren't things he had a very dispeptic view in 2008, for instance, about what clinton's campaign culture was like and he now sees it kind of laid bare. but the once to me that are most dangerous are the ones that touch on president obama. and i find it still incredibly intriguing, the notion that he had an e-mail account that he e-mailed under an alias and now it seems to be suggested that he may have been in communication with hillary clinton under that e-mail. >> i think the press has accepted the narrative that these e-mails in their totality show a window into the kind of

culture of a clinton operation that says one thing and does another. that's not unusual for political operations. but i think that has kind of primed the pump. and people also now recognize that it's possible that whoever's controlling the nature of this disclosure did not necessarily lead with the lead. and so while you could have imagine after days of these, the media's posture would be, well, we've seen all of this, let's not look. i think people are described for a big disclosure. and that will help if something comes up that actually is worth it if but for the most part, this has lowered people's expectations about what might come. taking a break. up next, the great phil rucker of "the washington post" has a great story called donald trumps echo chamber of grievances, conspiracies, and vitriol. quite a headline. we'll be back after this. but when (my) back pain got bad, i couldn't sleep. i had trouble getting there on time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid

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or a blockage of your bowel or gallbladder. if you are taking viberzi, you should not take medicines that cause constipation. the most common side effects of viberzi include constipation, nausea, and abdominal pain. stay ahead of ibs-d... with viberzi. welcome back. lots going on politically today. joining us to talk about from our nation's capital, phil rutger, national political reporter for "the washington post." you and bob costa looking at the donald trump's actions over the last couple of days and what they mean. do you think he's in a different place now in terms of his rhetoric and his mental state than he's been? >> i do. i mean, i think he's been moving in this direction for some time, but he's very clearly deciding to turn inward and really speak directly to his base and talk a lot about dark conspiracies. and air his grievances away from

the core messages that animated his campaign early on and that a lot of republicans believe could give him a better chance to win the election and focusing instead on things like the polls are rigged and corrupt and the media is biased and part of this global conspiracy. and even saying, as he repeated again today, that the election is going to be rigged and stolen. and that the voter fraud is happening and rampant and cheating is underway. so it's a pretty dark turn. >> phil, let me ask what you know about this. my reporting is that some of his advisers think this stuff's great. they like it intellectually and think it will help win a base election. but he's got other advisers who are saying, you should be talking about the economy, change, hillary clinton as being part of the problem. are there divisions and why is trump not listening to the people who are arguing for the latter message? >> i think there are, and a lot of sort of traditional republican strategists and operatives are deeply uncomfortable with the rhetorical direction that trump

is taking, but he's getting a lot of his cues from steve bannon, who's the chief executive to have the campaign, he used to run the breitbart website. and they're helping feed a lot of this to trump. they're with him every day, helping him craft his message on the stump. that speech in florida on thursday night was really, i think, a turning point here where he went full-on with the global conspiracy and talking about the clinton campaign, the media, the banks, multi-national corporations, foreign governments, all colluding in very dark ways to undermine this election and steel it from him and his movement. >> reporter: phil, just explain what the theory of the case is of like how this helps him win. i mean, obviously, it appeals to his base, or at least, a subset of his base. but just, for those who are urging this on him, they're urging him on this path because they think it's the way to win. so in their world, how do they explain how this is a path to victory? >> i think there are two pieces. first of all, it's his base. he's saying things that he

thinks are going to galvanize, motivate, energize this base of aggrieved white people, many of them working class. there's a belief in the trump campaign that there are must have of these people out there, prepared to vote for donald trump than our polls are indicating. and people who have not participated in elections before. so he's trying to motivate them to give them a reason to turn out. the other piece is he's right to suppress hillary clinton's base and give voters who might be going to the polls for hillary clinton a reason to think twice or maybe feel uncomfortable about doing so or feel like something's wrong with the process, so there's going to be too much friction or tension at the polling places. i was talking to mayor michael nutter, the former mayor of f d philadelphia today, and he said this is his big fear in philadelphia, that the trump campaign, trump himself, talking about voter fraud and urging his supporters to go to the polling places could be an intimidating force and suppress the

african-american vote in that city, which, of course, would help donald trump. >> phil, i want to ask you about info wars. just for the benefit of anybody that's not familiar with alex jones and info wars, we've seen trump both retweeting things from editors at info wars. we saw hymn talking about the theory that hillary clintlick h on drugs at the last debate, which is sort of straight out of the info wars world and alex jones. tell people what is info wars and alex jones and why is donald trump taking pages out of their playbook? >> well, it's a website. it's really one of the darkest corners of the media online, if you want to call it that. they don't do traditional journalism, but they spread a lot of theories, including 9/11 truther theories. that it was a tyrannical plot. alex jones is somebody trump has done interviews with.

he certainly listens to what he has to say. and it's also a place where rogerstone, a longtime trump adviser, frequently appears and peddles ideas and a lot of the conspiracies you hear trump bringing up on the campaign trail, like hillary clinton's drug use, which, by the way, there's no evidence of that, originated with info wars, the site. it's like breitbart, probably lesser known to the mainstream public, but it's one of those sites online. >> and phil, do you know anything about how that conveyor belt works? in other words, is trump reading this stuff himself. are people pitching it to him and saying, hey, you should talk about this. how does it go from info wars saying hillary clinton has a drug problem to donald trump saying it on the stump? >> i wish i knew all the steps there, but it started with info wars with roger stone advancing the theory in an interview with alex jones on info wars and then all of a sudden it came out of trump's mouth over the weekend at that rally in new hampshire. so somehow or another, trump is getting this information from front of him, i don't know if

it's stephen bannon, his chief executive for the campaign, but there's some conduit here. >> std be fascinating to know if someone's showing it to him and telling him to use it or just using it himself. he had a teleprompter at that speech. i wonder if that was that the prompter or an ad lib, it was not something necessarily everybody on the campaign would want to have him say. >> that would be really striking if that was in the promper, but he said it and has to live by it. >> we have the debate coming up on wednesday. any sense if the trump campaign thinks this is their last best hope for cutting into hillary's lead, or they're not building it up that way? >> it is his best last hope. it's the last chance he'll have to talk to 60, 80, 100 million people in the country with clinton.

he prepared it over the weekend sunday at bedminster with some of his advisers, but he's clearly not putting in the time hillary clinton is. she's taken two full days -- three days, off the campaign trail and is in new york doing debate prep. and trump will be doing some rallies instead. so we'll see if he comes in prepared. i'm also looking to see if he'll have a stunt like he did last time just before the debate. >> we'll talk more about some lat late-breaking developments on thcampaign trail, right after this. new plan...same doctor. i'm happy. it's medicare open enrollment. have you compared plans yet? it's easy at medicare.gov. or you can call 1-800-medicare. medicare open enrollment. you'll never know unless you go. i did it. you can too. ♪ [ cougshh. i have a cold with this annoying runny nose.

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i said to my husband that, you know, the language is inappropriate. it's not acceptable and i was surprised, because that is not the man that i know. the cameras were not on. it was only a mike and i wonder, if they even knew that the mike

was on. because they were kind of a boy talk. and he was lead on, like, egg on from the host, to say dirty and bad stuff. >> you feel the host, billy bush, was sort of egging him on? >> yes. yes. >> is that language you had heard him use before? >> no. no, that's why i was surprised, because i said, like, i don't know that person that would talk that way. and that he would say that kind of stuff in private. i heard many different stuff, boy's talk. the boys, the way they talk when they grow up and they want to sometimes show each other, oh, this and that, and talking about the girls. but, yeah, i was surprised, of course. >> that was just a part of

melania trump's interview with cnn's anderson cooper, which airs in full later today. and heshe's done an interview ao with fox on the air tomorrow. joining us now to talk about everything that's going on former republican congressman, jack kingston, a trump campaign adviser, and tracy sfoi, a senior adviser to democratic national committee. both are here. thank you both for joining us. congressman, is the political fallout from the "access hollywood" tape and donald trump's accusers an ongoing story, or is it done? >> you know, i think it depends on how we handle it. i was listening to a lawyer the other day, who was saying that, you know, you have to disprove these cases, but you don't have to litigate them. in other words, one witness, for example, said that i was sitting in the airplane from this when it went on and nothing went on. you know, another fami member has come out and says, well, you know, my cousin just loved

donald trump until he turned her down to come to her restaurant. another one is saying she doesn't really remember where it took place or when it took place. i think that donald trump has to defend himself, but not dwell on it. i think it's very important to acknowledge it, these are very serious charges. this is a serious allegation. but at the same time, i think he needs to say, you know, i dealt with it. but i want to talk about changing the culture in washington, d.c. i want to talk about this economy, i want to talk about 94 million people who are underemployed or unemployed in america. i want to talk about our weakening position abroad and now we're not doing well in the middle east. and i think that if he talks about changing the washington culture and the issues of the economy and national security, that's what people are looking for in the next president. and i think that he can move beyond these. >> your candidate and your party have largely stayed away from this, not putting out press

releases. the press interest has waned over the weekend a little bit. is this something the democratic party should or will talk more about to try to bring back the accusations and how donald trump has handled them and the "access hollywood" tape? >> well, the congressman offers some good advice from his candidate and from his lips and to donald's lips, we'll see. he doesn't seem to be taking that advice. but where i've come into this, he's engaged in victim blaming and it's really pretty heinous. whatwear seeing is more and more people over the weekend, when press interest was waning, actually, you see advocacy groups that help victims of sexual assault, their calls were going through the roof. there were incredible increases. people are saying, wait a minute, this sounds very similar to an experience of mine and i want to come forward and talk to somebody about this. that's what he's essential -- he's had this eruption of concerns andictims who are seeking support and that is perhaps the only single positive thing to come from this, is that

there are people now seeking support. everything else that comes out of his mouth, and from what it sounds like, even coming from his wife's mouth, to me, it's victim blaming. >> i want to get to two more stories. let's play you a new videotape from donald trump talking about this controversy involving the state department and the fbi. >> this is very big, and frankly, it's unbelievable. what was just found out is that the department of the justice, the state department, and the fbi collude d, got together to make hillary clinton look less guilty and a lot better than she looks. this is one of the big breaking stories of our time, in my opinion. this shows corruption at the highest level. and we can't let it happen as american citizens. >> this is complicated. we tried to explain it earlier in the show. but let me ask you one question that's simple. patrick kennedy, the official at the center of this, according to the fbi, he has been a defender,

de facto defender of hillary clinton. would you like to see patrick kennedy go up to capitol hill and explain himself and clear the air? >> i'll give you one simple answer. which is, the fbi has said, this is all ridiculous -- >> no, they didn't say it was ridiculous, it wasn't indictable. would you like to see patrick kennedy on capitol hill explaining himself? >> you know what i would like and a whole bunch of other people would like? to talk about the very things that are going to drive them on the booths to election day or pick up the ballots for early voting. it's not this. it's simply not. this is yet another sort of shade game that trump continues to play. and meanwhile, around the country, you have people saying, well, what about equal pay? what about reforming criminal justice systems? you know the list of issues that voters do care about, this isn't on it. >> well, i'll ask you one more time, would you like to see patrick kennedy speak in public and explain himself? >> i don't think i'm that interested in it. >> congressman, is this something donald trump should be

emphasizing? to break through to voters? >> i think it's important, because it underscores the corruption of the clinton family, the clinton culture, if you will, the pay-for-play culture. the one that says, i only have one server and it turns out to be 13. >> but based on the fact of what we know so far, what does it have to do with pay-to-play? >> it fits him with the modus operandi. here's what we're learning. and this doesn't come from wikileaks, this comes from freedom of information act. and so, here's what we know, is that the patrick kennedy and the clinton state department goes to the fbi and begs and pleads and c cajoles, trying to get something declassified or classified to the point where they can hide it in the archives of the state department basement, never to be seen by the public. and the fbi won't play ball with them. that they, i guess, started to negotiate to get more slots overseas.

it's a little complicated, but you know, as somebody who was in government, i can tell you, this is not how i want tax-funded entities to ask. >> complicated, thank you both. congressman, stay right there. we'll take a break and continue this conversation in just a moment. if you're watching the program in washington, d.c., you can listen to us whenever you're in the capital on bloomberg radio 99.1 f.m. we'll be right back. well this here's a load-bearing wall. we'll go ahead and rip that out. that'll cause a lot of problems. hmm. totally unnecessary and it triples the budget. we'll be totally behind schedule, right?

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believe me, she would not be my first choice, that i can tell you. >> kellyanne, do you condone that kind of language? is that the right response? >> it's not how i would answer the question. at the same time, he's very frustrated, because he's denied these allegations. he's simply said he didn't do it. >> aren't you concerned that he has essentially laid out the map for sexually assaulting women? and then you have these women coming forward and saying, yeah, that's what he did. >> i'm concerned that you're obsessed with covering this point when, again, we have all of these issues that americans tell the nbc poll -- you want to quote the nbc/"wall street journal" poll, kristen, what about the issues? >> that was trump campaign manager, kellyanne conway earlier on "me the press daily." we are back with jack kingston, a former u.s. congressman from georgia and trump's senior adviser. and now joining me in chicago is the former senior spokesman for barack obama's campaigns past,

back in 2008 and did some work for the dnc back in 2012, if i remember correctly. hari, i'll start with you since you're sitting here with me. kellyanne conway on "meet the press daily" also said something about this argument that trump has been making, calling it a rigged election. she said, absence argument of wrongdoing, of course, we'll accept the outcome. if that's her posture, i think that's the posture of almost every campaign, if there's no evidence of wrongdoing or voter fraud, we accept the outcome. if that's what she's saying is their stance, why is donald trump saying the opposite? saying, of course there's already voter fraud happening right now and it's happening all the time, you're naive to believe otherwise? >> the candidate says there's going to be a rigged election. i think what's important here is, donald trump has shown over the last couple of weeks that he's not really interested in winning this election. this talk about rigging an election is not about actually winning. it's about setting him up for what he wants to do afterwards, which is keep this constituency that he's built for some other business venture. and i think it's going to be

trump tv. but everything he's done, whether it is -- you know, this talk about rigging an election actually depresses his own vote. that's what i don't understand. when you look at "the washington post" poll, his voter enthusiasm numbers went from 91% to the mid-70s in the last couple of weeks, when he's really been talking about rigging elections. so he's not interested in winning. this is for something else. >> congressman kingston, i want to ask you about this. there are two things. one is, the fact -- donald trump's been making this argument with increasing vociferous. he's saying, you're naive if you don't think that voter fraud is naive. as you know, there's almost no proof of voter fraud happening in recent history. and we have stories coming out saying that if hillary clinton gets elected, it's obviously going to be a rigged election and they're talking about things like assassination and coups. so how is it possibly justifiable or healthy for our

country for donald trump to be saying the things he's saying about a rigged election? >> let me say this, i've been on the ballot 15 different times over a 30-year period of time. i've always had campaign poll watchers, a matter of trust by verify. i believe if you're a democrat or republican, sometimes there's irregularities that have nothing to do with party or motive. it's just plain incompetency. so i think it's very important, particularly in tough areas, for each candidate to have poll watchers and i think that that's the -- a good direction to go in. i don't know of anybody, of any credibility, who says that they think that they should assassinate hillary clinton if she wins, john. i mean, there's always outliers who says all kinds of wacky thi things, but no one affiliated -- >> excuse me, he's going well beyond there should be poll watchers, even that's dubious in my mind. he's saying this is going to be a rigged election, widespread

voter fraud is going on. i'm saying he's creating a climate among a lot of his supporters that's dangerous. what do you say to that? >> i think that's ridiculous, john. we hear this from the left. no matter what he says, well, that's dangerous. whose campaign office has been fire bombed? it's the trump office. and i would not say that was under any mandate of hillary clinton hillary clinton, but was there something in her record? you never hear the press say that. if they burn down the north carolina campaign office, nobody ever will link that to anything hillary or any of her subordinates have said. but whateverappens on the trump campaign islways directly related to his last speech. and i'll say this, in my understanding of his definition of rigged is the fact that there is an overwhelming bias against him. whether it's coming out of hollywood, whether it's coming out of the establishment, whether it comes out of wall street, whether it comes out of annoyed. there does seem to be a fix against donald trump. and you know, just this morning, i was looking and i know the

numbers have actually changed since then, but 37 daily papers have given endorsements. 23 of those have gone to hillary clinton. six have gone to johnson, and zero, as of two days ago, went to trump. i think he picked up one this morning. so if you think about those numbers, it's hard to believe. well, there's no bias whatsoever. you know, to me -- >> congressman -- >> go ahead, john, i'm sorry. i don't mean to ramble. >> sorry, i'll just point out that many of those newspapers that you're talking about that have been endorsed hillary clinton or not endorsed donald trump have been newspapers that have never not endorsed a republican for decade. so they're not exactly liberal newspapers that have gone in that direction. >> i'm not saying they're liberal. he's saying the system is stacked against him and i think that proves it. i never mentioned conservative or liberal. i'm just looking at bias. >> well, congressman, that's a weird definition of bias, when a conservative newspaper that have

always endorsed republicans go against donald trump. it's not so much bias as it is -- >> well, john -- >> congressman, i got to go to my other guest here. i got to go to my other guest. i can't just talk to you the entire time. hari, look at the polls that are out right now. why is this race -- she is clearly the leader. she's winning nationally by about somewhere between 4 and 11 points, if you take the national polls. she's got leads, some of them are narrow. in most of the background states. given everything that's happened to donald trump in the last two weeks, why is this race still as close as it is. there is still a path for trump to win, i think you'd agree? >> well, look, i think he's got a floor and a ceiling and he'll fluctuate in between those two things. this is not going to be an 80/20 election ever. she's going between 20, 30, 40%. that's where he's going to be. there are definitely movements where it's hillary, but the path is still the math. the path for him to get to 270 is virtually impossible. if she wins every single state and the district of columbia,

there are 19 of them that democrats have won, she starts at 242. now we're putting into play georgia, utah, arizona, texas, they're going on tv, the hillary clinton campaign is going on tv in texas. >> they are doing that. let me ask you this question. barack obama's campaign in 2012 thought about putting arizona in play. the campaign decided not to do that, because they didn't need it. that was their judgment. don't waste resources. we don't need this. the clinton campaign is not facing that same choice. do you think it's smart for them to spend resources on reach states rather than just devoting resources to the states they absolutely need to win? >> i think they'll have the research they need to get to 270. there are going to be expansion states where they're going to try to get votes. and it's not only getting votes for them, they're helping their down-ballot ticket mates as well in those states and that's going to help hillary clinton governor if she's going to pick up senate seats and house seats, but it's also forcing republicans to play defense there. the bottom line is donald trump

needs to be expanding the map right now. his map is shrinking. >> all right, hari sevugan, jack kingston, thank you both for being on the show and thank you for doing double duty against us. we have captain mark kelly on the show after this quick break. coaching means making tough choices. jim! you're in! but when you have high blood pressure and need cold medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. coricidin hbp is the only brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your blood pressure. coricidin hbp.

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for responsible solutions. he is a retired nasa astronaut, like most of us are. captain, thanks for joining pus. the republicans still talking about the second amendment. donald trump speaks more about his guns in his speeches than hillary clinton does. are you on the side of the voters at this point, or do both sides have their adherence? >> gabby and i are both gun owners. i'm a strong supporter of the second amendment on a lot of this stuff. 90% of the voters are with us. when you look at issues about background checks and domestic violence legislation, that

resonates with people. >> why do you think republicans are still talking about it? are they making a mistake -- >> i think he's talking to his base. his base who -- and if you stay away from actually explaining what the specifics will of the policy you are talking about, you know, that says, when you mention things, control words. people don't like to be controlled. when you talk about things that resonate with his base. however, if you want to talk sensibly about the issue, you talk about background check legislation, domestic violence, 90% of americans support -- >> you've been traveling around by bus and talking to a lot of people, doing events. give me a state or a race where you think your positions on gun safety is sort of breaking through and could exhaactually impact the outcome. >> the new hampshire senator race, kelly ayotte. we went on tv very early in this race and spent a lot of money there and we did an ad about background checks, how senator kelly ayotte does not support background checks for gun sales.

she voted against the manchin/toomey bill. and the day after we did that, she put up an ad said she did vote on it. she voted for a bill that said background checks in it that was supported by the gun lobby. it did not expand background checks for gun sales. when you look at that race, if you would have went back just two years ago, would a republican u.s. senator from new hampshire in her campaign ads that she's paying for say -- would that person say she was supporting background checks for gun sales? absolutely not. we've come a long way on this issue. and that's true in other races as well. >> mark, let me ask you this question about the state of how things -- how this issue is being discussed at the presidential level. you have, you know, donald trump making some fairly dramatic claims about what hillary clinton would do if she became president in terms of gun rights. it seems among some number of gunner owners, there's panic going on. you're seeing some gun manufacturers doing pre-hillary clinton election sales on

semiautomatic weapons and so on. do you think that the tenor of the presidential campaign will make it harder to advance common sense gun solutions in -- that you think are common sense, after election day or after hillary clinton take s office, f she's president? >> i don't want to go down the path if hillary did not get elected president, but speaking to hillary being elected and becoming president on january 20th, you know, she's committed to doing something on this issue, she has a record and policy positions and she wants to, you know, expand background checks. she needs the congress to do that. she wants to pass domestic violence legislation. and keep in mind about, you know, gun sales, the gun lobby is going to look for pretty much every opportunity to sell firearms. and i don't have a problem with that, as long as they're selling the firearms to responsible people. i'm a gun owner myself. i own six guns. if you sell a gun with a background check and you're not selling it to a felon or domestic abuser, there's nothing wrong with that. you're giving people jobs,

largely, in connecticut and other places. so, you know, we're hopeful that we're going to continue to move this in a positive direction. >> got less than a minute left. if hillary clinton wins, if paul ryan remains speaker of the house, she's been pretty specific about the kind of gun safety measures you would like to see. what would you say to paul ryan? >> let's have a vote. let's let these measures get to the floor of the house of representatives, so members of congress can vote on them and we'll see what happenthen. >> mark kelly, thank you. >> thank you, mark. >> we'll be right back. these goofy glasses. yeah. well, we gotta hand it to fedex. they've helped make our e-commerce so easy, and now we're getting all kinds of new customers. i know. can you believe we're getting orders from canada, ireland... this one's going to new zealand. new zealand? psst. ah, false alarm. hey! you guys are gonna scare away the deer! idiots... providing global access for small business.

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we're both headed to las vegas in the next 24 hours to get ready for the big debate. what are you plans for las vegas? >> uh, high-stakes poker, lots of alcohol, and, uh, i don't know. that's pretty much it. how about you? >> i'm going to look forward to the debate, because i'll be there to work. >> oh, yeah. yeah. i'll do that, too. >> yeah. all of our coverage of the

debate leading up to wednesday's big showdown is available now and through the next 28, 24 hours, 48 hours on bloombe bloombergpolitics.com. thanks for watching. we'll see you tomorrow. sayonara. >> "hardball" with chris matthews is next. mrs. trump to the rescue. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. well, down in the polls, the trump campaign is turning to a surrogate who hasn't been heard from a lot, melania trump. mrs. trump is now speaking out, defending her husband in the wake of that "access hollywood" videotape. here she is tonight. >> i said to my husband that, you know, the labnguage is unappropriate. it's not acceptable.