multiple times in the final days with the famous 1948 newspaper headline. so what do all three of these people have in common? they lost. that's the thing. you know who brings up dewey/truman in the waning days of a presidential race? usually those that end up losing. uh be we are about to see something that hasn't happened since 1948. the cleveland indians are in the world series. so as jim carrey might say, you're telling me there's a chance. that's it for tonight. "with all due respect" starts tonight. >> i'm john heilemann. >> and i'm mark halperin. with all due respect to colin powell and a surprising endorsement of hillary clinton, in the news business, we call that dog bites man. >> woof. >> on the show tonight, a poll stroll, an e-mail squeal, and bill badly's super pac smack.

b uh first, just in time for halloween, it's a bombcare square. the obama administration announced that health insurance premiums under the affordable care act will go up by an average of 25% next year. many insurers are also dropping out of state marketplaces. donald trump has been talking about this development pretty much all day, including at length this afternoon, at a rally, in sanford, florida. >> my first day in office, i'm going to ask congress to put a bill on my desk, getting rid of this disastrous law. they said 25%. forget 20 -- you'll take 25%! it's going to be 60, 70, 80, 90%. in the great state of arizona, it's over 100%. even bill clinton admitted obamacare is the craziest thing in the world, where people wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. and then he was forced to take it back the following day, because that night he suffered

great deal. repealing obamacare and stopping hillary's health care takeover is one of the single most important reasons that we must win on november 8th. >> trump also warned that people will see fewer insurance options, under obamacare next year. and he vowed to give people more choices, if he becomes president. democrats are pushing back. they're saying the subsidies for most people who can't afford insurance on their own are going to be offset with subsidies against the rising rates next year. but, this obamacare news has been a juicy filet of red meat for conservatives across the fruited plain, who have warned for years about rate hikes and less consumer choice. i'll give you el-rushba. >> this story on obamacare premiums going up 25%. we need to stop for a second. because this is outrageous. and it ought to be everybody in

this country up in arms. by all rights, everybody in this country ought to be flipping mad and feeling betrayed and lied to by the democrat party and by obama, and by extension, hillary clinton ought to be in deep trouble, because she's out there advocating this thing. >> so, bill clinton, who you hear trump said got in trouble big league for criticizing obamacare earlier this month, again proposed fixing problems with the legislation, today while he was campaigning in north carolina. >> so what would a country that was interested in being stronger together do? you'd keep what's good about the law and attack the problems. she's the only person you can vote for that wants to do that. he just said, i'm going to repeal this law, trust me on the rest. look, what are the problems with the law? we can all tick 'em off, right?

the co-pays wi, deductibles, an premiums are too high and the drug prices are too high. >> the republicans are jumping all over this and will continue through election day. is this a big game changer or are republicans overly stating what they have. >> first of all, bigly, not big league. the new trump camo hat, i've never seen that before. and third, rush limbaugh is the perfect example of why this is not going to be such a big deal. he says, everyone should be outraged. most people have insurance through another way. this is not a small group of people, but not everyone in the country. and over time we have seen there's been a stabilization of how the public views this law. which is to say, it's a little bit more unpopular, mid-40s people like it, a little bit higher, dislike it. this is not going to suddenly revolutionize that and reach

people who might be some who are not going to like their premiums going up. but the idea this is going to revolutionize the way. most republicans have hated the law for a long time and will hate it even more, but it's not going to change the dynamics of this presidential campaign, meaningfully. >> if somehow republicans, not just for candidates, but others could be in a disciplined way to talk about this, i think it could make a difference. >> i thought we were talking about the presidential race, primarily? >> i'm talking about the whole campaign. thereity, almost every republican on the ballot doesn't support the affordable care act. almost every democrat on the ballot does. and you'll see places that are close where democrats will put someone on the offensive, particularly in states where the next statistics show -- for instance, take arizona. in the presidential race, too. you're going to see energized democrats, energized republicans and defensive democrats. i will say, it's a great test for trump. today he did an imperfect job. he talked about it a lot, but imperfectly. it exposes the fact he doesn't

really understand the law very well. >> here's the way it will help, it's good for republicans in this sense. a lot of outside groups like the koch brothers and others have focused on this issue and put a lot of money behind the media. this will be helpful possibly in some legislative races and senate races, republicans will get a real talking point out of this and it could help them in a meaningful way. but for all of them and most specifically for trump, it would make it a lot easier to take advantage of this if you had an alternative to offer. what you will do. donald trump is saying it will be more choice under my plan. well, there is no trump plan on health care. >> it could help trump from being blown out if he's currently on a path to being blown out. >> on to our daily wikileaks update. new alleged clinton campaign e-mails were posted today on that show, that show, among other things, some downright vicious in-fighting between chelsea clinton and longtime clinton aide, doug band. but two fresh revelations are getting the most attention, because they offer a window into how clinton's team handled her unorthodox e-mail practices and private server when they were revealed in march of 2015.

the first is an e-mail that teams to depict cheryl mills suggesting that president obama knew about the private e-mail account, referring to e-mails between the president and clinton when she used the private account. mills wrote, quote, we need to clean this up. the second e-mail turning heads today is a call qui between then incoming chairman john podesta and neara tanden, who complained that clinton's team failed to get out ahead of the e-mail server story. in that message, tanden says they did not reveal the e-mail story sooner because they wanted to get away with it. so i have the question for you now as you asked me. conservative media skbrout lets are jumping all over these disclosures they have over almost every disclosure in the wikileaks story. are these that relate to the e-mail server, et cetera, are these as big a game changer adds republicans are portraying them to be and hope they will be? >> these are pretty bad. i would say, you know, we've had days and days of this. these are as bad as they are in

terms of creating an atmosphere or a notion of an attempt to cover up clinton behavior. it's so problematic for them to know these are from hillary clinton, though. this is still staffers talking about things. no huge smoking gun. bit does give republicans a sense, i don't think the dam is going to burst, i don't think this will be a game changer at the presidential level, but again, it does create a momentum for the republicans, an energized republican base, as much as any of the ones that have been disclosed so far, i think. >> cheryl mills saying, we need to clean this up. obviously, they were in damage control mode when this stuff came to light. that doesn't really shock me. the obama thing is, there are a lot of questions about what president obama -- about the possibility he had an anonymous account connected to hillary clinton's private account, and what he knew, but that story was put to bed a long time ago. the white house came out and said, what the president was referring to, he didn't know she had a home server and used it exclusively. >> the most damaging thing in here for president clinton, not

in terms of her chancing of getting elected, it shows within her inner circle, finger pointing and suspicion that there are enablers around her and that powerful people in her circle can't stop the enablers from enabling. >> i don't disagree with that. a lot of talk about polls today, just like every day, and much of the discussion centers on two national surveys. a new nbc news/survey monkey poll, national poll, shows clinton leading by six points, 50-44 amongst likely voters, but the abc news tracking poll that's out today has clinton beating trump handedly by 12 points, a megalandslide, 53-41%. there are, of course, a number of ways to explain discrepancies like this. how the pollsters define likely voter, how they weight their samples, and whether the poll involves surveying people online. the more interesting question, though, than the discrepancies in the national polls is the state polls and the battleground states. clinton lead as grown nationally

but trump in the battleground state has not moved much at all. take pennsylvania, where a monmouth university poll shows clinton with a one-point lead. in florida, a poll out sunday by cbs news shows clinton with three-point lead amongst likely voters, 46-43, also within the margin of error. and in ohio, the most recent poll there we look at from suffolk university has the race tied at 44%. all of those states are must-wins for trump, but he has not faded there the way he has nationally. so john, what are the possible explanations for the discrepancy between clinton getting to a big national lead or a huge national lead, but trump hanging in there in some of these states. >> i find it a little perplexing. these are battleground states for a reason. these people are hearing more from donald trump on the ground than necessarily all the national polls are seeing only the news coverage. and the news coverage is almost entirely negative towards trump.

some of these people in ohio and florida and north carolina are seeing donald trump and he's making his case there more actively and getting a chance to get his story out. but any of these polls at the state level, even the up withes where he's doing better than he was nationally, still not getting much above 41 to 42%, which is not enough to win those states anymore than it is to win nationally. >> the people who would think trump would have a chance would say, first of all, there's a secret trump vote, and second, she's the incumbent, so he'll get the bulk of the undecideds. i think the main reason he's still holding on in these states is because he's spending time there, as you said, and because they've heard so much about trump, that the recent headlines that have moved hillary clinton's national numbers, they're not faciphasing these pe as much, because they're living with the campaigns and the candidates and their warts. >> none of this is about phony polls or rigged polls or secret votes. for all of you saying all this crap, remember what happened in

2012 when the republican party sang the exactly same tune and proved to be wrong, wrong, wrong. >> there is a lot of private polling data, some of which i was looking at last night that shows trump is hanging on there in these states. not enough to get him to win for him to be a threat right now, but surprisingly strong in some of these states where he could possibly win, but his numbers currently is too low to win. >> up next, president obama's party-building pursuits, and we'll have former senator bill bradley on the show a little bit later to talk about his new super pac. but first, these words from our sponsors. (warrums beating)

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intercom: the library [ kis now closing.] ok kid, closing up. goodnight. the hardest part about homework shouldn't be figuring out where to do it. through internet essentials, comcast has connected over 3 million people in need to low-cost internet at home. welcome to a brighter future. comcast. president obama has been out pounding the campaign trail on behalf of hillary clinton, but he's also making an unprecedented push to help the democrats running for the house, the senate, and in state legislative races. yesterday at a fund-raiser in la jolla, california, obama said of this election, quote, we want to win big and we don't want to just eke it out. the president is endorsing dozens of down-ballot candidates this month and has plans with

former attorney general eric holder to lead a post-election effort to shake up congressional redistricting across the country. >> mark, until now, president obama has seemed wholly uninterested in the course of his party as he's bethe past eit years, but now he seems focused on helping clinton. is this suddenly the emergence of barack obama, party builder? >> i would love a huge national, robust discussion about the way redistricting works. neither party should like it. civic leaders shouldn't like it. i would love for the president to do this. i am surprised how hard he's working for hillary clinton. i will be quad ruply surprised, though, if he engages in what is truly the most kind of technical, mundane party-oriented thing when he leaves office. it would be great if he does it, but i'll be surprised if he actually puts a lot of time into it. >> there's no doubt he's putting

his shoulder into the down-ballot thing. >> not endorsing -- >> he's never done it before. >> he's just saying, i'm for the democrats. >> i'm not saying he's campaigning in legislative races. i'm saying, unprecedented by him to do this many endorsements. and he's out doing a lot of campaigning. >> he endorses every democrat in the country. >> he's doing a lot of campaigning. >> but about endorsing is a lot of candidates, i don't think -- >> the second thing, a little bit of difference how he's handled these past elections. this thing about redistricting, we agree about the need to fix that problem. and clearly, republicans gamed that system back in 2010 to their advantage. i actually am hopeful that president obama and eric holder, who i think is key here, are not going to try to do this to benefit democrats, although i'm sure they will, but we need to have a big discussion about this, because it's a huge part of the problem with the polarization that has messed up our politics. >> it's got to be done by the state level. so eric holder and the president would have to get involved in every individual state and the politics of and it the system and the courts, it's a local thing. it's a state thing. >> i agree. here's the thing.

i think president obama's not going to be in the weeds on this. but to have his name on something eric holder is involved in in an active way, not necessarily in the weeds, but just -- in 2010, again, i'm not even trashing republicans when i say this. the reason they were so successful at gaming the system is they did it under the radar to raise it up and have this discussion -- >> eric holder's not the -- >> to raise it up and have it in a big way is important. we should have that discussion in a big public way. coming up, a man who despises money and politics just launched his own super pac. what the what? former new jersey senator and nba hall of fame bill bradley joins us next, when we come back. using ,000 points from my chasasink card i ught all the fruit... veggies... and herbs eded to create p-u pickoun juice bar so now everyone knows... weave some of the fresst juice town. wh the per of poin can do f your siness learn more achase.coink

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a half century ago, lyndon b. johnson shocked the nation by releasing a tv ad that is still considered one of the most powerful political attacks in american history. the spot was called "daisy." it was run in 1964 against republican barry goldwater and it contained footage of a little girl picking flower petals, just before a nuclear explosion. now the good people to have the bucke buckeye state are getting their own trump-focused daisy-style ad. the spot is called "careful." take a look. >> one nuclear bomb can kill a million people. that's more than all the men, women, and children living in columbus, ohio. >> they're hearing the guy running for president of the united states talking about maybe using nuclear weapons. nobody wants to hear that. >> then why do we make them?

[ echoing ] why do we make them? >> the shadowy, well-funded super pac that's running that ad, 52nd street fund, plans to put down at least $725,000 to air the spot in ohio. the news here includes the identity of the man behind this effort. former new jersey senator, one-time democratic presidential candidate, bill bradley, is a well-known hater of super pacs. senator bradley joins us now to explain what made you start a super pac to go after a presidential candidate with a negative ad? >> well, you know, mark. i think the nuclear issue transcends all issues. because of a president, miscalculates, misreads the intent of the enemy. if a president doesn't have the leadership skills to diffuse a crisis before it gets to the nuclear level. then it doesn't matter what his position is on other issues, whether it's campaign finance reform or abortion or trade or immigration.

because we'll all be toast. and i happen to think that that's an important thing for people to ask. who do i trust with my life? and i think that's for republicans to ask, as well as democrats. because we're dealing here with very, very serious issue. and i think about donald trump and i say, you know, he does not have the ability or the experience to be able to diffuse a crisis diplomatically. >> so why not just go to ohio, maybe give some speeches about this? why engage in the kind of big-money politics with a super pac that you've derided? >> because i think that this is the best way to reach people, the most powerful way. you've heard me speak. i'm not going to sweep the crowds, that's for sure. but this is something you might ask, well, how did this come about? well, i, for almost a year, i watched the outrageous innuendos

of trump, you know? the slurring of african-americans and latinos and muslim americans and denigrating of women. the attacking of the gold star family and by analogy, military. threatening to put his opponent in prison, threatening the american democracy with not saying whether he's going to abide by the result, saying dangerous things all the time. and i said, you know, i'm appalled. what can a citizen do? and so, i had a conversation with my friend, george lucas, who came up with the idea for a commercial that would, this commercial that would essentially educate people about what nuclear war means. i then took it to another friend and agency in boston, who produced it. i then had it tested by the firm of my former communications director. i then started a super pac, because that's the only way you get on. and i raised money from

contributors who were republican, democrat, and independent. and we've bought time in ohio for people to contemplate what might happen if donald trump was in the position with his finger on the nuclear button. >> creative director george lucas, that's pretty good. >> not bad. i want to get to the question about testing this ad, right? because there's a variety of things trump has said on foreign policy that have struck many people as dangerous. a lot of foreign policy experts have condemned him. the nuclear issue seems to me to be obviously a big e, right? but it's amazing to me that people don't discuss it more. that it's not gotten more traction out there, that he's kind of in favor of nuclear proliferation. is this a thing that still resonates in today's world, as a real threat? >> well, i think so. i mean, bill parry, a former secretary of defense, said we're closer to nuclear war today than we were during the cold war. and that people are blissfully unaware of the danger. so this is to make it clear to

people that this is a danger. >> but this is the kind of question i have, though. is that for whatever reason, people no longer, it seems to me, people are fixated on terrorism, they're fixated on isil, they're fixed on domestic terrorism. there's not a wide discussion of this. so is an ad in ohio going to solve that? >> well, the question here is not just nuclear weaponry. the question is, the person who would be in charge of those nuclear weapons. once the president says the missiles are gone, they're gone. they can't pull them back. and i think that, you know, as i said, there's a question of, you know, personality. donald trump is erratic, he is undisciplined. he lashes out. that's not the kind of person that i think we want to have with the finger on the nuclear button. i think you need somebody that is steady, not somebody who is impulsive. and you know, the real question here is also focus.

i mean, look at donald trump in his three debates. how long did he focus in the debate? maybe 30 minutes? maybe 40, maybe an hour? he didn't even focus an hour and a half. and if you're president of the united states in the nuclear age, you have to be able to focus 24/7. and i don't think he can do it. and that's why i think he's a danger to america. >> we've got about a minute left in this segment. you talked about watching trump over the course of the campaign, but you guys have a history going back to tax reform period. talk about that and what impressions he took from you and you from him. >> well, i was on his early loser list, i think, because of the tax reform act of 1986, i think, was one of the factors that almost bankrupted him, because we eliminated the tax shelters she was using to not pay taxes. so, that was the origin. and then there was an issue related to his casinos in atlantic city, which he thought the answer was sports gambling. well, i don't like sports gambling, so i passed a law to prohibit sports gambling, which

also didn't please him too much. but the idea here is not what happened in the past with donald trump and me, but what the american people have to decide today and what kind of country we want to become. you know, i travel around the country. i have for 50 years as a politician and a businessman and a basketball player. and i have an idea of what is best about america. remember, when i ran for president back in the paleo-l t paleo-littic area, i talked about the goodness of the american people. and i think that. i think they're decent, tolerant, generous, i think they are innovative, and that's the america that trump has run against. >> senator bradley, stay with us. we'll come back and talk more about other things in the news with senator bradley right after this. ♪ nah.hat else? what if we hire more sales reps? ♪ nah. what se? what if we digitize the whe supply chain?

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we're back with bill

bradley, thanks for staying on the court with us for some overtime. >> i understand. >> we were just talking about wikileaks and russia. do you have any doubt in your mind, donald trump disputes this, most others think that russia is in some ways behind these e-mail hacks for the national committee and john podes podesta. do you have any doubt in your mind that russia is somehow involved in this? >> i know that 17 agencies all said that russia is involved in it. they know a lot more than i do about this. you have to say that, yes, they are involved. and to me, it's really unbelievable that donald trump would encourage a foreign power to perform espionage and intervene in the political process of the united states. i think that -- i've never heard that happen. it's just another one of the trump things that you can't believe. >> knowing what you know about russia, which is a lot, do you think that the goal, if putin is responsible for all of this, do

you think his goal is to try to elect donald trump, or just sew mischief and mayhem in the american political system? >> i think the latter. i think he wants to demonstrate, that you know, they have certain moves that they can make. well, we have plenty of moves we can make, too. the idea is to not just be provoked by things and react unnecessarily. and i think in this, i have no idea who putin wants. and the point is, if i were running for president of the united states, i would not really want putin to endorse me. and so i think that it's unlikely that, i think it's just a part of the strategy to let us know that they're still there. >> you at times has been critical of the u.s. government for being too confrontational with russia. in this case, you seem pretty outraged with them interfering with the election. if you were president, would you retaliate again them for what they've done? >> well, would be very careful, because if it's a retaliation, it has to be a

retaliation that you don't know about. and it has to be sufficient to send a little message that, you know, we know what you did and we -- >> is that proportion to interfering with our election? >> well, in russia, i don't have an answer to what's proportionate, but the idea is, you want to find something. there's no reason to go at them with a big cyberattack, because we have a lot of vulnerabilities here, in our grid, in our financial system. and so you want to respond, but you don't want to respond -- over respond. >> most important question is, will we ever see the knicks make the playoffs? and will they this year? >> yes. >> they will? >> yes. >> why? what do they have going on? >> my old roommate, phil jackson, is putting a good team together. and now that you bring it up, i ask the question to myself, if donald trump was a basketball player, would he be able to play on a championship team and the

answer is, no, he would not be able to play on a championship team and he would want the ball all the time. >> and he can't go left. >> how many games are you going to this year? >> i'll be there seven, eight, ten times. until they makehe playoffs. >> there's no one on earth that has more respect for phil jackson than me, but i'll say that derrick rose and joe kim noah, we were looking that the knicks had put together a fantastic team if we were still in 2010. these are some old, broken-down guys. >> well, there's a risk of injury. but there are also some good, young players. one guy game over from spain, who was on the team when he was in spain. he's a great young player. so we'll see. i think joachim noah is really, i think, could be the heart of that team. >> we're asking these questions, just to make clear, the knicks

are opening tonight against the cleveland cavaliers in cleveland tonight. so not sure how they'll fare in that matchup. >> it's a big night for cleveland and chicago. who do you like in the series? >> i guess i'm -- i don't know -- i don't have a dog in the fight. >> got to be for the cubs. >> either one of them, because neither one of them has ever won. >> the cubs haven't won in forever. >> senator, thank you. >> always good to see you. come back soon. >> all right, bill bradley. check out his new ad in the super pac plans all of them on our website, bloombergpolitics.com. we broke that story. fantastic. interesting. and spectacular. we'll talk more about obamacare when we come right back. (announcer vo) when you have type 2 diabetes,

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you are next two guests are medical experts. well, maybe not. but they can talk about health care and the affordable care act, which is where we're going to start, with democratic strategyist bob shrum, who worked for among others, al gore and bob kerry. and also with us, scaramucci, the author of his new celebrated book, "hopping over the rabbit hole: how entrepreneurs turn failure into success," available in finer bookshops now. bob, what should democrats be saying about the announcement regarding the affordable care act, premium increases, and insurers leaving the market? >> well, first, i think this is a new story for the news media. it's not going to have much

effect on the vote. secondly, there's a huge amount of endorsing in the reporting on this. most of the people on the exchanges get subsidies. and if they get subsidies, they're not affected by this. third, there is a problem, which has to be fixed, and which the next president has to go to congress to get fixed. and the next is we don't have a third option, a public option, that can see to it that people's premiums don't go up. but that's, i want to emphasize, again, a minority of people in a minority of states. it's going to be a big news headline, i think, in part because the press is looking for a way to say, donald trump still has an issue. donald trump still has a way. he doesn't have a way forward. he's going to lose this election. i said it on this program a long time ago. and this isn't going to change that. >> anthony, is this an issue that donald trump will talk about, every day, between now and election day? >> he seems about as indifferent to donald trump as senator bradley is. listen, it's not over. anybody that plays competitive sports knows that the election is not over. and so, you know, could he win

or lose, i don't know. but if he wins, you'll have to totally repeal and replace obamacare, because obamacare does not work. and i can explain to you very simply why. i'll use the example of my cousin who's running an auto glass shop on long island. he had to take his people off his health care plan? why? the premiums have skyrocketed. someone said to me last night, he's blow elow 50 employees. that's true. the premiums have skyrocketed for everybody. he's hobbled in terms of the amount of people he can hire over 40 hours a week. and what you're doing is you're crippling the society with good intentions, with this plan. and so it has to be repealed and replaced. there has to be a competitive process for the insurance companies, there has to be tort reform, and there has to be a focus on supply, guys, in the system so that you can create more doctors so meet up with the 25 to 30 million people that you're on boarding in the health care. these guys will not tell you this, but they want to go to single payer with, and that will wipe out innovation in the united states and crush the

health care system. so, we've got to explain it to the american people the way it really works and what is really happening, instead of the talking sound bites and that sort of nonsense. >> anthony, i want to stay with you, because it's great to have you here now. you've been liberated from your previous captors. >> i get the opportunity to sell my book at finer and not-so-fine bookstores. >> here's my question. you retweeted your nominee the other day, when donald trump tweeted a major story, the democrats are making up phony polls in order to suppress the "the trump." i think he meant, the trump vote. you're a man of the markets and you believe in numbers. do you think the polling is rigged? >> i don't know if all of the polling is rigged, but i think there are elements of oversampling that gets done in these polls. you saw in the wikileaks stuff in podesta's e-mails that there has been some oversampling. >> that's not -- >> the abc poll -- let me just finish. >> you can't just say this stuff and cruise by it. oversampling by a candidate who decides to oversample various reasons is not saying that the

polls that are run by major media organizations including this one are distorting their polls. >> so i'm going to say to you, let me finish? >> yes. >> there is a suggestion that there might be. even if it isn't, let's say the polls are exactly accurate, in a year like this, would the two of you say that there couldn't be the opportunity of an upset? if it was 52-48 for brexit and it tuppered and it was 52-48 to leave the union. because of the media brice, there's a tremendous amount of trump shaming going on. i've lost friends over being a supporter of donald trump. there's a demonization and a caricature of the man that isn't true. >> bob, here's my question for you. what's your experience been so far, in your many years of doing presidential campaigns, have you seen a lot of poll rigging over the course of your time, even on the losing end of some presidential campaigns? talking about that? >> no. and for someone as smart as anthony is to suggest that

somehow or other the polls are rigged because of oversampling is idiotic and shows a misunderstanding of what happens. campaigns always oversample, for example, groups like hispanics, so they can get accurate numbers. those numbers are not then included in the overall results of the polls. and this isn't done by the public polls, after all. we have the public polls converging to a seven, eight, nine-point clinton lead. 12 points today in "the washington post"/abc poll. and when you look at individual states, pennsylvania's gone. most of the industrial midwest is gone. georgia and arizona are competitive. hilly clinton may be ahead there. it's a terrible demographic cul-de-sac for donald trump. he's not going to get out of it very easily. and the brexit analogy holds no water at all for two reasons. first of all, those polls were close and bounced all over the place. clinton has had a consistent lead for a long time. number two, the british electorate is 88% white.

the american electorate is 70% or 69% white. and donald trump is in a terrible position with african-americans, with hispanics, and with asians. there's no way those polls are loaded against him. it's just another part of this rigging scenario which is untrue and which does no credit to him. and i can't believe that someone as smart as the person i'm debating actually believes this. >> he called you both smart and idiotic. >> brilliant. >> no, i said, how can someone that smart say something that idiotic. it's a misunderstanding of the what the polls are. >> i am supporting a non-politician and bob has obviously got a lot of experience at being a politician. and so i'm not idiotic. and i didn't say that the polls were rigged. what i said was that there could be some distortion in these polls, as a result of trump shaming. now, if bob is going to suggest that the media has not shamed people from not saying that they are supporting people, they have. and so when they --

>> would that affect the poll numbers? >> it would affect the poll numbers -- >> no, it wouldn't. >> bob -- >> tell me how it wouldn't, bob. enlighten me. >> i'll tell you how it wouldn't. there's no difference between the internet polls where people are, for example anonymous -- >> well, there actually has been some difference. >> so all of the polling experts -- trump shaming is the skewing of 2016. it's not real. >> bob, let me ask you two numbers questions about polling. number one, given where you think the race is, what do you think trump's floor in the national four-way popular vote is? >> 37, 38, 40. >> 37, 38, 40. not 39. second, i had a republican say to me, who is no fan of trump's at all, that he thinks in north carolina, maybe in florida, there could be exactly what anthony's talking about, which is, like harvey gantt against jesse helms, that there are people there who just won't tell pollsters they're for trump. probably not enough to make up a

six-point lead, but do you think there's anything to that at all, that pollsters are being told, i'm voting for clinton or i'm undecided, when in fact they're for trump? >> yeah, listen, this is the skewed polls of 2012, the version we're using in 2016, i don't know a serious pollster, republican or democratic, who believes this -- >> but, bob, that's the question -- >> i know a lot of republican strategists who say it's just i don't think. >> but you believe in the jesse helms/gantt senate race, gantt won, even though helms was doing better in the polls, because people wouldn't say they were voting for helms. >> we had two scenarios like that in my lifetime. >> so you think it's possible in this race? >> but we didn't have in those years internet polling. we didn't have the capacity for people to answer anonymously. they can answer anonymously, no one knows who they are. there is no element of shaming. that's why the polling experts say, this is a crock. it's just not happening. >> anthony, in the last couple

of weeks, every day now, we see trump advisers saying, we want to talk more about policy. you've said it too. and every day, almost every day, even if he does talk about some policy, he talks about other stuff. >> listen, the thing that brought mr. trump to the table is his non-political status. he's a non-politician. and there is 60 or 65 -- let's go with bob's polls. 65 to 70% of people don't like the direction that the country is going in. is that not true? >> no, no. >> okay, so the point i'm making is that he got here to the dance the way he is, he's 70 years old -- >> finish. >> i don't see anybody changing him. >> i wasn't shaking my head at you, i was shaking my head at the control room. anthony, thank you very much. bob, thank you. >> thank you. >> make sure to check out anthony's book, "hopping over the rabbit hole." bob's got a book as well, a memoir, with i recommend that one as well. up next, we'll talk to sheryl crow about what she's trying to change about our future presidential elections. if it makes her happy, can't be

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and i grew up in a time when i

feel like the office of the president of the united states should be an office that's respected. what's happened in the last few years is not anymore informative than it would have been if it had been a year, or even six months. we're not learning anything new today that we would have learned six months ago. so i feel like we've got to use some ingenuity. we've got to pull our major two parties together and talk about a way to reform the situation. and i know i'm not the only way who feels this way. >> let's say hillary clinton wins and the day after the election, drooted cruz says, i' going to iowa and new hampshire? >> and i don't doubt that he will. >> how do you stop that? >> i'm in this for the long haul. i want people to sign our petition and take their voice capitol hill and do something about this. i don't think there's anyone who thinks that this is a healthy situation. the kind of hate rhetoric we've seen has been really damaging to the political process. and i think there's a way, if you look at other countries, to

create a process that we can feel proud of. i mean, other countries have much shorter political processes, and with social media and all these formats for news and information dissemination, we have to be ingenious about this. >> so you've got canada, just had its longest election, it was like 11 weeks, right? the british elections are famous, you have a few weeks of campaigning and it's over. here we have the first amendment, where you're allowed to say whatever you want. even if you shorten the system, the american system, and said, let's have it look more like the british system. again, to mark's point, how could you stop without violating the first amendment, how do you stop candidates from doing whatever they want? if they want to campaign until the next election and go out and spend money and travel around the country, how can you stop them? >> well, i'm definitely not a policy maker. i don't want to impinge on freedom of speech, at all. when i was a kid, our curfew was set at 10:30, and i always said,

dad, i want to stay up. nothing good happens after 10:30. this is how i feel about this. if you want to go out and spend a ton of money and throw your name in the hat for this length of time, i think it undermines your message. we've gotten so far away from issues as it is, that now it's just entertainment. and certainly, no one benefits from a two-year election, except for maybe media outlets and marketing people, people who work on elections. >> i bet about $1 million you violated that curfew about a million times. >> i was a really good girl. >> you would be putting us largely out of business? >> what are you going to do the day after, right? >> you've got to petition. how else do you envision this happening besides people signing your petition? >> well, listen, i'm a mom. i'm a mom of two kids. i know i'm not the only one who feels this way. there has to be a way for to us put our minds together and look at the primary season. we can't put all the primaries

on one day, which is one of the original ideas i had, let's shorten it, but then we would lose people like president obama if he were up against someone who was self-funding. i would like to see a day off for everyone including schools where we go and vote. it's more fair. there are a lot of issues with our election that could be fixed. and maybe it's time to look at some of those things. but two years is too long. and i think the climate it's created has been extremely damaging. >> i don't have any doubt that a lot of people feel the same way you do, especially after this campaign, but do you think this is an artifact of the trump/clinton election. did you feel this way about the obama/mccain election eight years ago, boy, i wish that would have been shorter when barack obama was coming out? >> the last election, that was the first time i'd seen campaigns of real hate rhetoric. and i sound like a dinosaur when i saw this, i grew up with walter cronkite, the 6:30 news, i grew up with the debates. we had many less options for

finding information. we had newspapers and we had the evening news. and we sat around and we had conversations and we talked in our communities. it was much more civilized. i don't think that we're learning anything more by it being two years than if it were eight months. >> of all the songs you've written and sung, which one most applies to this election? you have about 20 seconds to think about it. >> "god bless this mess." >> and if they want to sign your petition, what do they do? >> change.org/makeitshort. >> you would like it really short? two weeks, three weeks? >> i would like it to be about four days. no, i want it to be fair and everybody to have an opportunity to speak. but we know our candidates' issues and experience, so do we need to drag it out this long? >> god bless you, sheryl crow, and god bless this mess 2016. it certain has been that. sheryl crow. we'll be right back. ifoue searching other av sites find a be price...

..top clickinground... the lowe prices ourotels are always at hilton.com. so pay less and gere only at hilton.com. and so when i saw that, that was completely disifying. . i'm a republican, but this election is so much bigger than party. my son max can't live in trump wod. si n't alwaysgree withees and t she's reason. y. ane's smart. sishe can work with people to t ssolve problems. i want to be able to tell my kids that i d the right thing when it really mattered. i'm hillary clinton and ill my kidsapprove this message. ing

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week. and we have our piece on bill bradley super pac. john and i will be back tomorrow, same bad time, same bad channel. thanks for watching. we'll see you then. sayonara. >> "hardball" with chris matthews is next. i'm chris matthews here in pittsburgh with the vice president of the united states. let's play "hardball." well, here we are, mr. vice president. >> good to be back here. >> we're right next to a gym and i've been listening to you the last couple of days. you're talking about taking on donald trump with fisticuffs behind the gym. so i brought something along for you that might be helpful to you in your new endeavor. a couple of boxing gloves. these are worn boxing gloves. these are the real things. >> let me