"hardball" with chris matthews begins right now. i'm chris matthews here in pittsburgh with the vice president of the united states. let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ well, here we are, mr. vice president. >> good to be back here. >> we're right next to a gym and i've been listening to you the last couple of days. you're talking about taking on donald trump with fisticuffs behind the gym. so i brought something along for you that might be helpful to you in your new endeavor. a couple of boxing gloves. these are worn boxing gloves. these are the real things. >> let me tell you, chris, i was trying to make a point. you and i grew up in similar

neighborhoods, i think. >> summerton. >> well -- >> scranton. >> scranton and claymont. one of the things that trump is trying to say that i was a pretty good athlete in high school, played a little in college. and people didn't act in the locker room like he talks about. that's not true. and you and i both know from the locker room and the school i went to, one of the guys said, this is what i'm going to do, because i'm the star halfback or quarterback, i'm the boss, and my sister and my girlfriends were out there, i would take the guy behind the gym. the point i'm making is, he is trying to dumb down, he's insulting everybody in the neighborhoods i come from and the people who played ball. and that was the point i was trying to make. this is just absolutely unacceptable behavior, period. >> yeah, i agree with you. i've never heard that. and i know what locker room sounds like. bad words once in a while, but not this. >> yeah, come on. you're a regular guy who grew up with regular people. and i'm thinking what about what's going on in this state of pennsylvania.

you're the third senator here. many people say. i'm looking at the numbers now. back as recently as 1996, 44% of the white working class working people voted democrat. they voted for bill clinton. recently, in 2012, it went down to 29%. it may go down -- why has this gone -- pat moynihan, your former colleague, he said, the democratic party should build on the white working class instead of abandoning it. what went wrong? how'd you lose it? >> what went wrong is a number of things, but not the least of which was that as the economy began to crumble, and it started long before the recession and the bush administration, all the focus was on people that were hanging on the edge. and needed to be. people going off the cliff, working class people who were poor. people who were in real difficulty. and so, what happened is, that person who works on the line, the woman's a waitress, they're making 90,000 bucks a year, and they still can't make it, if they have two kids. and we don't talk to them

anymore. we don't associate with their difficulty anymore. and it's almost like, like somehow they're in good shape, but they're not. they're not. they can't figure out how to get their kid to college. when you and i were -- well, i'll speak for myself. i always hear the economist in our outfit will say, middle class is $51,000. ddle class is about being able to send your kid to a park and come home safe. middle class is about being able to send them to a high school where if they do well, they get to college. if they can get there, you can figure out how to pay for it. you can own your house and not rent. you can take care of mom when dad dies. and when the recession came along, they were killed -- >> you mean 2008 and '9? >> 2008, 2009, they were killed. they had $20,000, $30,000 equity in their home and they thought they had something and it got wiped out. even if they never missed a mortgage payment. even if they were able to keep their house, they got hammered.

everything but locusts landed on the president's desk. and we have to be talking about to them. that's why if you notice in the last two years, the president talks about the things that matter to them. tax cuts for middle class people. getting rid of this exorbitant, ridiculous tax expenditures that go to the wealthy for no good reason. when reagan was president, $800 million -- billion a year in tax expenditures. now $1,300,000,000. most of it not at all able to be justified. so we just started getting back to the point that we could talk about actually beginning to rebuild the middle class. wages are actually up, real wages are actually up for the first time in a long time. but we don't talk enough to their concerns. >> you talk about it as if it's all economics. do you think that's the -- >> no, i also -- >> what about the cultural

stuff? >> i think there's cultural stuff, too. >> why is the democratic party? because all the contributors with their money has made it a more elite party? an ivy league? >> it's no malarkey. the fact of the matter is, those people built this country. they built it. and they are smarter than we give them credit for. there's almost like, what's happened in both parties, is there's sort of a, a yielding to pedigree. >> yeah. >> you know, the guy who goes to penn state, university of delaware, and the guy goes to yale or penn. the guy at yale or penn must know more. >> i haven't noticed that. >> oh, you haven't? >> i haven't noticed the intelligence -- >> no, no. neither have i. but you know what i'm talking about. >> yeah. i know exactly what it is. this is sort of, you know, deferring to pedigree. and one of the reasons is that i think what's happened now is we really have a much more egalitarian society, particularly among millennials, where, you know, you go into neighborhoods, the smartest

people who work for you and your staff, they all live in the same neighborhood. whether they're black or white or asian. there's this book written, there's a test if you are part of the new elite. the new elite are corporate executives, really quality lawyers, doctors and because it's now at the point where it is merit-based, whether you're part of the elite, we've kind of forgotten about ordinary americans out there. and so, it's like, it drove my boys crazy. i had them take the test in the book and it said, have you ever been on a factory floor? were you raised in a neighborhood where over 60% of the people didn't go to college? if you get a chance to go to starbucks or mcdonald's for coffee, where do you go? do you know anybody who has whole milk in their refrigerator? >> because everybody else has skim milk? elitist. >> so part of it is that it's understandable, the good news is, it's based on merit

advancement in many cases now, but the bad news is that these folks who were the people who are not the salt of the earth, they're the stuff that makes everything grow. and they're capable of so much more. that's why i think our focus on free college education, our focus on making sure that there's child care and get women back in the job market. our fox on things that are just basically simple fairness. minimum wage. i mean, people want to know that we really do -- my dad used to have an expression, chris. he said, i don't expect the government to solve my problem, but i expect them to understand it. >> let me ask you about the things that mr. trump, who you want to beat up, because you do, i know you do, you said so. mr. trump comes out there and doesn't know anything about politics or have any ideology, but he jumped on these issues. illegal immigration, trade relations, which have cost the manufacturing base in this

country, and wars which have cost the lives and the arms and legs of their kids. because it's not the elite we're talking about that are fighting these wars. it's those people we're talking about from pennsylvania, western pennsylvania. so he comes on and grabs these three issues. why were they available to him? >> well, by the way, they were available to us. that's why barack and i ended these two wars. we're still engaged, but we're not talking about spending $10 billion a month. we're not talking about 200,000 people, 170,000 people in a war zone. they were available to us. and we were talking about making sure that we take all the actions in the world trade organization. we brought more actions against unfair trade practice than any administration has. and a lot of people like my son went to war, and came back war heros. and what we did is, that's why we focus so much on military families.

and so, but, look, when people have been really -- >> everybody liked beau. >> well -- thank you. that's nice of you to say. >> it's true. >> i do. but, anyway, trump comes along, for example, you never heard me criticize the tea party. and the reason i didn't is because a lot of people are scared, beat up, and what happens, they lost a lot, and what happened during the bush administration and the great recession, and they're angry. and so there's two ways to deal with it. and people go out and you find a scapegoat. and it had to be because of the government. i remember we were running in 2008 a woman standing on a chair at a corner with about 100 other people saying, don't take my medicare. government out of my life. >> isn't that funny? they think government isn't the people who created medicare? >> so i think when you're appealing to people's fears and

anxieties, you can make some gains. but the end of the day, i think you're going to find, i'll make you a bet, that in the state of pennsylvania, a significant number of those non-college-educated white women and men vote democrat before this is over. >> the reason i'm involved in this, what you were talking about, i was reading the "washington post," everything i've been thinking, bobby kennedy when he died, his train's coming down through jersey to pennsylvania and washington. and you see white guys. a white guy with a dirty face, saluting. >> that's right! we've lost that gut connection, i think, with the working people out there. we have black support, the democrats do, the liberals do. but this is gone. this salute to the democratic party. how do you get that back? you can do it, i think. >> because you have to talk to them. you have to engage with them. you have to go and let them know that you understand their act anxieties.

look, when barack -- the president picked me up coming from philadelphia in 2009 to go down to be sworn in, thousands of people were along the track in delaware. there were those white guys in hard hats, saluting. and because i've always -- i get it. but i think we got to the point where a lot of local democrats took it for granted. and look, the other part of this is, you know, i may be mistaken, but i think after sam nunn left, i'm the last guy in the senate that got a majority white male vote in their state. but again, a small enough state where i paid attention. and by the way, i get overwhelming support in the african-american community. >> i've seen it. >> overwhelmingly. >> let me ask you about the downside of trump, the danger side. it looks like he's losing, you know more than i know, but if he

loses, election night is sort of predictable, say he carries ohio, maybe. maybe it's close in florida, but he loses. pretty clearly secretary clinton wins with a pretty strong electoral victory. it's obvious she won. and he says nothing or he says, they screwed me, they rigged this thing from the beginning. what will be the danger and how would you as an elected official be able to deal with that? how are you going to bring back the public with his 38 or 40%? >> well i think that you'll only have -- let's say if he gets, god willing, 38 to 40% of the vote. i think at least two-thirds of that vote knows it's not rigged. you're going to have people, though. you always have them. whether they -- whatever their background, who are going to believe it's rigged. i saw an interview on, i think, on msnbc this morning, before i took office. >> good habit. >> well, yeah. but i saw a guy standing there and he had all these trump signs and they said, are you going to vote?

he said, no, i'm not going to vote. they said, how are you going to argue it's rigged? he said, it's a rigged system. i'm not going to vote. it's rigged. look, we've always had that element in every election. the difference is, we've never had the head of a great party saying that it is rigged. but i really don't -- now, what would be a problem is if, in fact, is if you have a gore, you know, bush election, god forbid, and he says it's rigged if he were on the short end. i don't often agree with charles krauthammer, but he wrote a hell of an article about how fragile democracy is and you can't play with it. that should be disqualifying in and of itself, what he's saying. you got elected at an incredibly young age, and you know what public life is like. no one's had your run, if you put it lightly. it's been an amazing run.

what is it about public life? what i'm stunned by, young men and young women aren't running for office like they used to. there's a very short list for people running. in the old days, you know, astronauts would run, everybody would run. now people say, i'm not going to put up with that crap, it's too much for me. i don't want the personal inspection. what can you say that's fulfilling about your life? it's been so many years where you've actually dealt with real peoples problems? >> the most vulnerable time in a public official's life is when the public only has a snapshot of you. but if you can make it through the first term, if you can make it through the first crucible you go through, they begin to have a video, a motion picture of you. and it gets harder to distort who you are and what you are and what you're willing to -- what your character is. and on balance, the american people are still extremely generous.

they are fair, and you know, i think people can tell, you know, not about me, but i think people can tell whether when someone says something, whether they mean it. >> yeah. >> i think they can taste it. >> they trust you. your numbers have gone up since you haven't run for president. >> oh, it's amazing. by the way, you guys never gave me credit. they were up before i ran for president. >> but you're booming now. is that a lesson there? don't run for president? >> if i had known that, i would have announced every two years i wasn't running. >> okay. let me ask you about the world series. >> sure. >> now, you're a phillies fan, so does that make you a national league fan? a cubby fan? >> no, i'm a phillies fan because they're in philly and i want to sleep with my wife. >> she's from willow grove. we know this. she hails from willow grove. >> oh, god, is she a philly fan, any sport. i know you're not supposed to say who. i'm an american league fan. >> really? how'd that start? the yankees? >> scranton and the yankees. everybody in scranton is either -- there's not many phillies fan in --

>> i know about that. >> that's how i was raised. my grand pop was a great athlete, went to santa clara, played football and i was raised on the yankees. >> despite the nomination of the national league growing up, all those years. >> despite. despite it. >> despite san francisco and l.a.? >> i'm so old, i remember bob feller. >> early win! i remember that, four straight. the best -- the indians had the best winning record with 114 games. and they lost four straight, to the giants. leo deroacher and those guys. >> remember deroacher's comment? he said, better to have lady luck on your bench than skill. my grandfather used to say, it's better to have both. thank you for your time. and we'll be right back. ar art sounds d aga," [ music ops ]

♪ juscan't wait to get onheagain [ front assi sounds ] [ muc stops ♪ on the road again ♪ like a band of gypsies we gdown the highway ♪ [ beetle horn nks no matter whh paat you choose, u get more anrd features, for less than you excted. hurry in and lease th2017 passat s foju $199 a nth.

[baby talk] [child giggling] child: loo ma. no hands. childr: "i", "j", "k.. [bicye bell ris] ndistit chatter] [telephone rings man: hlo? [boing] [laughte man: you may kthe bre. [applause] woman: h.

[indistinct nversation] nnouncer: a fu life measured in seats starts with the right ones ear on. r crashes are a leading killer of children 1 to 13. learn how to prevent deaths and inju by using the rht car seat for your child's age and size. learn how to prevent deaths and inju what? is he ne?? tv character: why are you xtinmy man at 2 m.?e... no... if you want someone to leave you alo, you pretend like you'rsleeping. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more onar iuran, you itch to geico. it's what you do. tv craer: taking selfies in the kitchen

new poll numbers in key battle ground states, for that we check the hard ball score board. in arizona clinton is in the lead by a pint. that's close. a new poll from the new york times and cnn college has clinton out. this is big time to 7 point lead. clinton, 46. trump, 39. last month that was tied and he needs north carolina. m minnesota clinton leads by 8 points and new star tribune poll

clinton leads 47 to trump's 39. i can't believe they are the same. who would have believed it. we'll be right back. listen to me. i am captain of the track team,a. shdon't really think she's ing to get out of here, does she? be nice. s new. hello! is anyone there? rrr! girl: me? my friend beckgot to talk to this super-ce boy, and i tried to act like i wasn't jealous, but i so totally was, and then, out of nowhere, this concrete barri ju popped up. maybe it was a semi.

me you wer drivg? yeah. i mean, i know the whole "es on the road" thing. but this was a super impornt text. ybe you have to know becky. xting? great. but it was only, like, 5 seconds, and i'm really, rely fast texter, it wasn't even a big deal. acalhas s texted me backet wi-fi here. ie liberty mutual stood with me we kids to get a repair estimate. liberty did what? yeah, with liberty mutual l l need to do to get an este was snap a photof the damage a voi! voila! (sigh) iish my insurance company at... ! holdt. hot boys... ere's su be three of you... ere's yourrother where's yo brother? hey, where'sharlie? chare?! you n leave worry behind when liberty stands wi you. liberty stands with you™ berty mutual insurance

how the party has forgotten

about ordinary americans out there how those people are smarter than they are given credit for. he's got something here. as recently as 1996, 14% graduated for bill clinton. that number sunk to 29%. those are national percentages. one person who saw the loss of the white working class voters early on is former united states senator patrick moynihan of new york who wrote in 1968 after bobby kennedy was killed in a worry that people inouth boston should be on our minds so much as those of rocks bury, they have been abandoned he wrote. our politics are very much the

worse for it. 40 years later moynihan wrote specifically about catholic voters. saying it should be a base which o to build be not abandon. joe biden born in scranton hasn't either. he hasn't forgotten where he came from. he shares the sentiments of the ordinary people who feel they've been abandoned by the democratic party they themselves built. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. join us tomorrow at 7. okay eastern. see you then.

something new has arrived. ♪ unique designed for e driven. introducing the first-ever infiniti qx30 crossover. visit your localnfin retailoday. infiniti. powee driv if you have modete tsevere cerave citis or crohn's, and your symptoms have left you with the same view, it may be time for a different perspective. if other trements haven't worked well enough, ask your doctor abouentyvi the only biologic developed d apprpr just for uc and crohn's.

to hcontrodamagingusing right inflammationt and is clinically proven to begin helping ma patients achieve both symptom relief as well as mission. infusion and serious aergi reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio y increase rk ofinfecti, which can serus. while not reported with entyvip, serious brain infection caus byirus may be ssle. ll your ctor if you ve an infecti, experice frequent infeions orave flu-like symptomor s an infecti, ver problemsccurwith entyvio. ifou oohn's medication n't working for you, ask your gtroenterologist about entyvio. entyvio. relief and remission within rch. ask your gtroenterologist about entyvio. ♪ ask your gtroenterologist about entyvio. using 60,000 pntfrommy cse d wire. and plts gtroenterologist about entyvio. using 60,000 pntfrommy cse d

needed to give my shop... no one will forget. see what the powerf points can do for your siness. len more achase.m/ink it'sanyone ever haveady! ocsional constipatio see what the powerf points can do for your siness. diarrhea, gas or bloating? [ simultaneously ] she es. help defend against those stive ises. take phills' colon hlth she probiotic capsly 400 likes? wow! phillips. good to your gut.

chris matthews had an interview with joe biden. joe biden is into the third day of explaining in addition, though, to that exclusive interview with the sitting vice president of the united states, i'm talking with chris matthews here tonight on msnbc, we would have also have the would be next vice president of the united states. he'll be doing an interview with brian williams on the eleventh hour. and i'll be doing an interview with the man who would be the next democratic vice president of the united states, tim kaine.