prison. and on the campaign trail today, donald trump will be making a day-long blitz across ohio with three stops in that background state. his running mate mike pence will be in the another background state, iowa, along with nebraska. then on the democratic side, hillary clinton and first with state. and mike pence will be in iowa. on the democratic side, hillary clinton and first lady michelle obama will campaign together in north carolina. while tim kaine handles two events. "morning joe" getting ready to go. it starts right now. here's a woman who goes home and goes to sleep all the time. think of it, she's got no energy whatsoever. every one's talking about the fact that i'll do seven, eight, nine stops, i'll make three or four major speeches. for instance right after this, we have thousands and thousands of people in north carolina

coming to another one last night, 25,000 people. i got home at 1:00 in the morning. here's a woman, she makes a speech for 15 minutes, she goes home and goes to bed. honestly, she has less energy than jeb bush. i mean it. i mean it. >> oh, boy. good morning, everyone. it's thursday, october 27th. >> we need somebody to go to apple. get me some routers. and a repeater. so we can have a wi-fi system that works. louis, can you talk to someone downstairs. we need our guests to be able to use wi-fi in real time. yesterday morning, we talked about this and they did absolutely nothing. can you go to apple? >> i have this little white

thing from apple. >> tell them the situation and none of our guests have it. i know it's crazy. in 2016, our guests that come on the show need to be able to use wi-fi. >> okay. >> thank you, louis. all right. how's it going? >> we got nicolle wallace. >> i think that's inherently racist, the white thing. i want the black thing. >> the apple store, i'm sure it comes in rainbow of colors. >> whatever. we'll see. >> i don't know. >> columnist for time magazine, eddie turner.

and mark halperin with us as well. on the of big stories. >> this clinton leaks thing has just exploded. >> hold on. >> "the new york times" donations to the foundation vexed top clinton aides. the interesting thing about this it's verifies what you said yesterday that everybody were just absolutely horrified what they had gotten themselves into. they walked into this campaign with all this and i guess felipe said there's no fixing this. no quick fix. >> bill clinton inc. >> the washington post article is fascinating on bill clinton. $66 million to him personally and they're bragging. >> do you think they're hiring? >> they're bragging in the memo they can shake down the same corporations they're taking

foundation money for, they can shake them down for $66 million for a quote bill clinton inc. for bill and hillary personally. does that confirm what you and a lot of clinton skeptics that support eed bernie sanders were worried about all along sf. >> it was certainly, yes. i mean one of the things, in the "the new york times" piece, there's no quick evidence of kwid pro quo. it certainly confirms a deep suspicion that there's an ethical deficit that defines how they operate in the political domain. how they operate generally. >> and they're actually bragging about being able to shake down foundation clients. for bill clinton money. he's bragging about it. not like doug brought this up on

his own. >> this was initiated by chelsea clinton, chelsea clinton went to the family's attorneys and said she was worried about that doug was quote hustling, he was hustling business. >> the timing is when her time went on the foundation, i think, when she got -- had a bigger role. >> does anybody in america believe that he would be doing that bill and hillary clinton wouldn't want him to do? >> you have to wonder about being careful about throwing stones. because i love everyone calls the trump, sleazy, trashy, whatever, because of a picture and the money they take from one company and give to another as a donation, as opposed to their own money. all legal.

but still -- >> this is sleazy. and everybody knows it sees slea sleazy. you're trading in public service while someone is secretary of state. >> larger amounts of money and the world is use sfwld yeah, you're shaking down the world for $66 million instead of a rolex watch or a life-size portrait. someone is going to win a pulitzer prize for finding a portrait of donald trump. >> i call that more than ethically challenged. >> ethical and moral deficit. >> that's what he said. >> and i feel like you're just elegant. >> he's elegant. here's the story. >> the clintons and the foundation bearing their name is facing fresh scrutiny over extremely blurred lines between the organization and the fami

family's multimillion-dollar fortune. the revelation stems from a w k wikilea wikileaks. a purported 2011 memo from longtime aide to former president bill clinton doug band lays out extensive fund-raising efforts on behalf of the clinton foundation and the clintons personally. the washington post reports that band detailed the circle of enrichment in which he raised money for the clinton foundation from top-tiered corporations that were clients of his firm while pressing many of those same donors to provide personal income to the former president. the memo which came during hillary clinton's time during secretary of state goes on to discuss how that works for the foundation, how that worked for the foundation could be used to extract large speaking fees and other paid work for the former

president even referring to the operation as bill clinton incomp rated. the post adds that the contracts for the clintons would pay out $66 million over nine years. if the deals remain in place. eddie's shaking his head. wonder if there are new words coming from him. part of the memo allegedly reads ind pen debit of our fund-raising and decisionmaking activities of the behalf of the foundation we have dedicated ourselves to helping the president secure and engage in for-profit activities. in support of the president's for-profit activity, we also have solicited and obtained as appropriate in-kind services for the president and his family -- for personal travel, hospitality, vacation and the like. >> nicolle, what do you think?

how bad is this. >> not good. >> is that what they would say if the bushes did this? >> listen, the bushes would never do this. >> i know they wouldn't. >> this came about because chelsea clinton started asking questions. another revelation that came before this story did, she had been called a spoiled brat. doesn't sound bratty to me but pretty insightful. >> band's memo was sent as part of -- >> this basically confirms everything that ron fournier has been saying for a year now, follow the money. source inside the clinton camp, this is it. follow the money, my clinton source said in 2015, follow the money. i mean, it's trading in public service for hundreds of millions of dollars personally. >> and again, just like the

e-mails -- >> by the way, forget the state department, maybe they're using the state department but using relief work in haiti. help those suffering in haiti, that's really important. but listen, can you also give bill clinton $500,000 to give a speech in your corporate luxury box? >> the e-mails also showed that the people around her are well aware of the problem. i mean, huma abedin talking about the king of morocco gives $10 million to the foundation and huma writes in one of these e-mails, she created this mess and she knows it. the closest to hillary clinton know and hillary clinton must know on some level that all these things will not look good going into a presidential election. at best, they're unethical. has it led to policy change? was something done differently

by secretary clinton as secretary of state as a result of donations made to her and the foundation and bill clinton? that line hasn't been drawn directly yet. if you find that line in the next ten days you got a massive story in the election. this is big in its own. >> kind of morally deficit kind of way, sleazy way. >> is this sleazy? >> my father doesn't get how this is constantly happened in sort of the clinton empire and from the connections to wall street, the foundation, these thin lines it's perplexing to him that this seems to be acceptable. >> mark, i'm -- i actually find myself this morning by how crude and crudely drawn out this was about the blurring of lines of helping, using a foundation that

you say you're setting up to help the world and at the same time bragging about how you're going to blur the lines between the money raised for the foundation on in one hand and on the other hand, raise $60 million for bill clinton. >> no question, you see business going on and that bill clinton, doug band and others enriched themselves by leveraging those relationships and offering access to people in the context of cgi. the big missing piece is did any of those people get stuff from the government when hillary clinton was secretary of state? we already know they got the ability to rub elbows with people in the clinton orbit and i guarantee you while some of those companies were motivated by doing good some of them were motivated by also doing well. >> we have two different

blurring of the lines, we got one of the state department and we'll see one of these days, we'll find out if there ever was a quid pro quo. on the foundation side, the use of foundation to make hundreds of millions of dollars for the clinton. i wonder, is the attorney general of new york going to shut the clinton foundation down like he shut the trump foundation down? from what i've seen, the trump foundation needed to be shut down. those are just nickel and dimes compared to the money here. they're bragging about using this foundation to make the clintons hundreds of millions of dollars. shouldn't the attorney general of new york launch an investigation and at least shut down the foundation like they did with the trump foundation. there's so much more money

involved here. >> well the clinton foundation does do a lot of stuff that's good around the world. you can't ignore that piece of it. the thing that's going to get more scrutiny again why were these people giving money? the clintons would say these heads of these corp ratingses were our friends. >> but doug band himself said we're going to exploit the foundation to make bill clinton eke $66 million. nicole. doug band tells me he was shook down by bill clinton. >> i think the other half of the sentence was what was incoming, he talks about the $66 million in hand and there were another, i think, in excess of $100 million owed to them. so, it's sort more you read -- >> the value has increased by

the fact that she was secretary of state. >> joe biden was together about getting into the race, there were pieces about one of his motivations and one of sort of hunger in the democratic par was someone who had a better set of moral and ethical codes. i mean, this has been angst about the clintons since their time in the white house. >> eddie, you can look at bill clinton's speeches, i read multiple press reports, he made $250,000 for speeches. and then hillary clinton became secretary of state. and suddenly, he became twice as effective a speaker because he started getting paid $500,000 dp. >> it doesn't smell good at all. part it revealed was a deep-seeded suspicion about her character and not only her policies, her character, her intimate relationship with wall

street and big money. what the foundation has -- what this reporting around the foundation reveals, it gives us everyday that this wasn't just made up. $10 million from the ukrainian steel magnate, and he demanded access to president clinton and if he didn't get it the relationship -- what we see here isn't the direct line of quid pro quo. we see these connections and relationships complicate how her judgment will be judge. >> when bill clinton gives speeches, he makes big money. it's these other payments, these consulting payments, what did he do to be paid money as a consultant? >> what about, president of some university -- >> that's a very big one, it goes to the nonprofit college

industry. >> how did he get paid for that? $14 million, $15 million. >> what did they get for their money? what was he doing for them? >> i think he gave a couple speeches. >> willie and i have been trying to do that for several -- because we were runner-ups in the nobel prize every year. what's interesting, you can't put a number -- i would, if somebody paid me $14 million to be a provost of the university, i wouldn't go around saying they help children in haiti. >> they helps others -- >> but they help themselves. you can help little kids in haiti. >> without the $14 million. >> you can just set up

hospitals. bill gates actually gives his money away. it's not a profit-generating. it's not using contacts. here, pay peter, now pay paul. now pay peter and now pay paul. that's not me talking, that's doug band. in a memo, and by the way, when i say that's doug band. >> it's the clintons all over aga again, it's not doug band. he's loyal to bill clinton, so loyal it was maddening at times. he didn't care who hated him. his job was to protect bill clinton and i will say he's done it better than anyone in my life. he was inseparable from bill clinton. when we're saying doug band we're saying bill and hillary clinton.

>> i think larger point to think about, too, it was only august when the clinton foundation finally said, okay, we'll stop taking foreign donations. same with the e-mail servers. hillary clinton had to be convinced that it wasn't a good idea. >> yeah. >> maybe i should haven't a private server. it took a lot of people in her ere bit -- >> it's insane. >> go ahead, mark. >> if she hadn't been secretary of state, a private citizen along with her husband, this would be leveraging the foundation the way a lot of people have found unseemingly. when she took the secretary of state job, the obama administration said there are a lot of concerns here about this relationship. let's put some rules in place and i think a lot of this stuff we already know about wouldn't

have been looked kindly on by the white house. by trying to keep the clinton's foundation from creating conflict with her government role. >> does it call into question the private server all over again? >> of course, it does. again, ron who's coming out of retirement and going to be on here at 7:00. we'll talk to ron. our ray of shine this morning from michigan. good morning, michigan. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> oh, god. >> nicolle, you know who the good guys are in this whole episode -- >> chelsea. >> you never know how politics are going to shake out. john podesta has his e-mails hacked into.

at the end of the process, i'm sure there's stuff that podesta didn't want out there. i see podesta as a straight-shooter, a good man, a no-drama political guy. the same thing with robbie mook and you can go down the list of them. >> and these issues, we were talking about felipe yesterday, a press person who understand exas exactly what the headline was going to be. so, to restate willie's point, lot of people close to her and him who knew exactly what it looked like when it came out. the worst-case scenario they described to their bosses. >> mark, lot of political figures are surrounded by people who put the blinders on and

never take them off. what these e-mails have revealed those people around her political campaign have their eyes wide open a they more often than not are pushing for transparency and they understand the costs of not being transparent and if hillary clinton is elected president of the united states and if these people are surrounding her going into the white house instead of those who get the clintons in trouble that might be seen as a hopeful sign. >> two people worked for presidents and ex-presidents. those who trade on that access and influence and that relationship to get rich and those who find another way to make a live zblg wow. okay, still ahead on "morning joe" -- timing is everything. with just a dozen days to decide, the latest polls offer very different pictures of the state of the race. plus d he forget to make it in albuquerque?

later, nbc is live in north carolina ahead of hillary clinton's joint appearance with first lady michelle obama. and hallie jackson from battle ground ohio where recent polls put the race at a dead-heat. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ in by in spirit in the now. boost. it's not just nutrition, it's intelligent tritn. with 26 vitamins and minerals and grams of protein. all in 3 delicious flavors. choosing to go in one direction... up. boost. be up for it. look at you. you're at the top of your game. at work or at play, you're unstoppable. nooh h, can thnice goi man.rack. thin are gog great for you. you've earned a night ou goodnks, good friends. yeahwe can go ahead and ll thia good night. e oh

♪ ♪ all right, we got a bunch of new polls to get to. >> how is everybody doing today? how is that apple thing going? >> stop making fun of me. it's real thing, it's from apple. >> let me guess it's white. >> it's apple. i'm sure it comes in pink. it's the apple store. let's start with the national picture in these polls. >> eddie, we need to take her to class. >> poor nicolle. i'm following along with the students. >> let's get to the polls.

in the fox news poll conducted saturday through tuesday, trump has cut clinton's lead to just three points. 44% for the democrat, 41% for the republican. half a point outside the margin of error. >> that poll was taken the last three day and gary johnson gained back some support to 7%. trump's rebound is largely due to independent voters. trump is ahead 41% to 28%. mitt romney won independents by 5%. >> okay, it's close. it's a tie. hey, wait there are two other polls. >> conducted slightly earlier. last thursday through this monday and they show a wider gap. the usa today poll gives clinton a nine-point edge, 47% to 38%. the third-party candidates just

taking 6%. in an ap/gfk, clinton has a 14-point lead. >> do the clinton camp think they're up 14 points. >> no. they think this is maybe five-point race. i don't think they dispute these numbers that show three, four, five. i think because they never saw it as 12-point race, the washington post/abc -- >> every interim poll i have seen, you're saying the same thing, four, five, six, seven. it's a lot tighter. but five is still a landslide. it depends on the trend line. >> no one disputes that donald trump can get to 266.

but, nobody can tell you where that next state is, because with the trump folks point to, i heard from boris last night around 11:30, oh, colorado, they're down nine in colorado. they point to pennsylvania, they're down to seven to nine in pennsylvania. the dispute isn't whether they can get to 266 i think they can. >> i got one, i got one, and mika's going to read it now. i dohink that new hampshire is the only way he gets there. they are obsessed on colorado. >> they're not going to win colorado, no way. >> no way they're going to win colorado. dem graphically, i couldn't find a swing state worse for them other than maybe virginia. but virginia and colorado are similar, highly educated,

suburban, hispanic, it's the last place -- and there's boulder, ko, they smoke a lot of pot in boulder, colorado, lot of kids there. >> and i think hillary clinton is actually in better shape than obama was in colorado and virginia. so i don't think colorado and virginia are at all in reach for donald trump. >> new hampshire and the secretary district in maine is their only hope. the new wall street journal and marist poll has clinton opening up a nine-point lead in new hampshire. >> this one goes back to last week, right, alex? >> yes. >> monmouth had a newer poll that came out. >> a four-point race. clinton, 46% -- what do you got here. >> this is umass amherst.

four-point race. this is new. t this poll conducted last week puts hillary clinton 41% to donald trump 37%. >> that's four points in new hampshire and a new one. >> and a new monmouth university poll gives clinton 46%, trump 42% and johnson 7%. let's go to new hampshire first, nicolle if you do the averages, it's still a loss. i'm looking at trends. doesn't it seem if he wins and by the way, we're saying 266, he has to win everything. >> he wins florida, he wins ohio and north carolina. >> he wins nevada. there's got to be -- >> the gop keeps senate. there's no one thinks that all

those states are going to swing gop. >> don't say there's no one that doesn't think that. it's possible. it depends on what the trend lines are. if the trend lines continue on the next 12 days like they have over the past five it's possible >> it's possible. we haven't seen the impact of newt's explosion with megyn kelly. these polls also don't take into account what's been a horrific week for trump and women. >> mark, help us out here. it's not been a horrendous week for donald trump. it's been a horrendous month for donald trump. it's been horrendous. it has been horrendous towards those women voters, the swing voters, the educated voters, all the people that he needs and yet we have two polls in new

hampshire that have it now at four points, still a loss, but again we look at trend lines. you got a national poll that shows three points, a cnn poll that shows it five points, nbc news survey monkey poll that shows five points. but yet it's tightening in some of these polls? ap still has it 12 points. >> i don't agree with nicolle, everyone accepts that he could get to 266. both republicans and democrats looking at polling da to look that way. if he wins the big five -- florida, north carolina, ohio, iowa and nevada, then he's at 265 and joe you identified you're right -- new hampshire is a weird state. he has a mathematical path, but

things would have to change. i think things have gotten better for him, he's finally tying and winning the news cycle. he's close enough to go into election day thinking he could win. >> you look at different polls. the nevada poll, one nevada poll has him tied and one down by nine points. the nbc news poll has him tied. and a new florida poll -- >> clinton 43%. and trump 39%. >> clinton's numbers, 43 in the florida, the nevada poll you just showed. if the trump is right and gary johnson and jill stein fade a little bit, i don't think she's going to win these states with 43%. in a normal state, she might be

quasi-incumbent in those states. most republicans i know who would like donald trump to win, they don't think he's going to win. >> here's the thing, willie, if there were 1980 i would say we have absolutely no idea. because, you know, everyone voted on election day. and a wave, we saw reagan had a wave and swept people over. i went on a friday in 1994 from being tied 49% to 49% to winning 62% 38% over the weekend. people said we have to stop bill clinton and all over america same thing happened. in 2016, like, people have been baking that cake now for the past two, three weeks. all this horrific news has been going on. people have quietly have been going to vote across america. if there's a wave the final

weekend it may not be enough to get him over the top in a loft these states that he needs and we have so much early voting and the news has been horrific for him. >> there's been a lot of early voting turnout and hasn't been great for him. we're not a 14-point country. it's just no one is going to win by that spread. the frustration of people they're sick of this election. one poll is nine in nevada and another one is tied. what are people to believe? listen, we're twisting ourself knotts to find a scenario for him to win. >> it's a miracle. >> if the election is held today, there's no way he's going to get there. the election isn't held today. 12 days.

a week is lifetime in politics. i wouldut it at 92% that hillary clinton wins. but, people act like this is a static game. you go to bed one night and you're on top of the world and the next morning you wake up and read a headline and you're going, i wonder if i can get a cessna flight to barbados. these idiots that have run campaigns before and get on twitter that this is a static event, i was saying three weeks, well, good, great. it doesn't matter. i was saying three weeks ago the red sox were going to win the world series. you don't know. n nicolle, stuff happens. and it happens quickly, not going to change the outcome. >> mark reacted to my saying

that everyone thinks he can get to 265. his best case scenario it's possible for him to get to 265. being as generous as the most generous trump backer could be to trump no one sees him getting beyond 265, which means, no matter what these polls, from three points to 14 points, they don't really matter. you win based on the electoral map. >> maybe i'm not creditable, no one thought i was credible that donald trump could win the nomination last june but a lot can happen in a week if he picks two, three, four points, it's close. if there's a two, three-point hidden factor there in voting then it's a possibility. so, i still, again, it's a 90%

chance she wins. but, i don't think you can say that -- that there's not a creditable way for him to get to 270. >> does he still lead in the enthusiasm space. >> it's narrowing. >> if those donald trump supporters aren't as enthusiastic as they were in beginning and the primary, how can he get to 265? >> again, let's see, we got 12 more days. all i'm saying is what tom brokaw said back in 2008 when we all said that hillary clinton's campaign was over there wasn't a creditable person alive that said hillary clinton was going to win that because she was down double-digits to barack obama and she won it. all i'm saying, let's let the voters decide, like tom says. again, let me repeat again, there's 90% chance right now. must-read opinion pages

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the hardest part about homework shouldn't be figuring out where to do it. through internet essentials, comcast has connected over 3 million people in need to low-cost internet at home. welcome to a brighter future. comcast. come on. >> louis will do anything to be on tv. >> hey, you, thank you. >> look at this. >> this is awesome. >> what is it? >> would we get you in trouble if you helped us? help us out here. >> we're sorry. >> can you help us out here? >> it won't work --

>> okay, let me ask you this, if i give you three paper clips, right, and some gauze pads, can you do a work around and make it work? >> i wish. >> you don't think this is going to work? >> no. >> we need a private server. hillary clinton was on to something. >> i'm going to have to ask you -- >> it's life-changing. >> i need you to take the network down. for all of nbc. will you do that for me. >> it's for the greater good. >> it's so cute. >> right. >> it's white thing. you're right. >> a black dot on top. >> so, hugh, you go off with louis and show him -- listen, just show him and he'll do the cutters. point to the wires to cut and we're going to take this system down. is that the expression we use,

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♪ ♪ quickly, an update. an update on a couple things. so, just got this and everyone's looking for a hero chelsea directly asked for equity as reported in the 2014 book clinton inc. only when she was denied entry did she turn on band. in "the new york times" article when can chelsea clinton used a pseudonym, sent band a complimentary e-mail in 2012 he forward it to mr. podesta, quote, the apple doesn't fall, a kiss on the cheek while she's

sticking the knife in the back and front, quote. doug band is saying that about bill and hillary clinton. that kiss on the cheek while she ease sticking the knife. >> this story -- >> that part of the story bothered me. more like a hit piece than as opposed to expose about the clinton foundation. that moment right there. maybe it's just me. >> what a nightmare to have this all out in public. >> all right, time now for the best opinion pages. i like mail. >> why don't you say that about planes. >> every time we get on planes it doesn't make sense. we shouldn't be flying. >> big boats don't make sense, either, like a cruise ship. >> that makes sense. >> they should be sinning?

>> no. >> one you see one that sinks, it's the on top of the water, it doesn't make any sense. jen, can you fix our wifi. >> listen. >> exactly. exactly. didn't you say that you have to sign in as a visitor. >> how many years have you worked here? >> about 16 years. >> only 16. when you get to 20 you might get a logon. maybe not. wall street journal, the warren-sanders presidency, don't think that elizabeth warren is barnstorming the country now only to elect hillary clinton, she's getting out the vote to make sure elizabeth warren is in position next year to co-run the government from capitol hill. >> that ain't happening there's no way the left now lefts the

clinton foundation and the politics it embodies recapture control of the party. elizabeth warren, the democrat, bernie sanders, winner of 22 my len yal fuelled primaries are going to guarantee the revolution's purity in clinton presiden presidency. a few days ago, hillary clinton said to a campaign rally i could listen to elizabeth warren go on all day. >> the rest of the sentence was i could listen to elizabeth warren go all day and for a second i thought i was going to have to. >> stop, no. >> why does she have to add that phrase? she was amazing on the campaign trial? >> yes, she was helpful. >> the bending over backwards by hillary clinton to co-op bernie sanders, furee college for everyone.

>> well, she's going to get pressure, whether she carries it on or not. the progressive wing of the democratic party and progressives outside the party are going to bring pressure to bear. >> lots of luck to that. still to come -- >> once she's president she's president. >> if she wins, is there anything that bernie sanders, elizabeth warren and paul ryan all signed into law. if not, her presidency could be slow-going. >> kind of like this show. still to come on "morning joe" -- >> african-americans are living in hell in the inner-cities. they're living in hell. you walk to the store for a loaf of bread, you get shot. we're going to fix our inner-cities. we're going to fix.

>> oh, my god. this would be news to colin powell. this would be news. eddie, eddie, do you have to call a white person to go get you bread for your family, where is this from? what planet does he live on? >> i don't know. he's going to be our greatest advocate. >> that was old video from the primary. >> he's put forward a new deal for the african-american community. >> that's next on "morning joe." >> say it. >> that's next on "morning joe." >> we'll be right back. the way of a touchinmoment if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, you cmbrace the chance of completely sk with taltz. taltz is proven give you a chance at completely clear skin.

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still ahead this morning, the latest releases from the wikileaks hacks and the how the staff reacted to news about the e-mail server and the news about clinton inc. ron joins us ahead who warned us all months ago to follow the money. much more ahead on "morning joe." it's your grandpappy's'sammer d he would have wanted you to have it. it meant a lot to him... yes, ge makes powerful macnes. but i'll be writing the code that will allow those machin to shamation with but i'each other.ng the code i'll be changing the way the world work (interrupting) you can't pi it up, can you? he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you' going to change the world.

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but i keept growin byaking every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash cardrom capil one. with it, i earn unmited 2%cash thounds of dollars eacyearkfroms going back io my business... ich adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? with the clinton foundation, it takes money from rich people

and give it to poor people. >> should they have done that from the beginning? >> if you asked me, if a political adviser, of course, if you asked me as a human being, no, i'm not too sure. as a human being i think -- >> joe -- >> it does an enormous amount of good. if my sixth grade teacher said, somebody is going to hell over this. >> if only james carville was here this morning. welcome back to "morning joe." >> shake down the corporations in haiti ends up putting $66 million in his pocket, somebody going to hell. >> october 27th, still with us, we have bloomberg -- >> if there were money to be

made in hell i'm sure they would direct the foundation down there. i want mark halperin. . >> i'm so happy to be here today. >> why did does this always happen to me? >> let's talk about trump business deals. >> also with us to help you out there, steve, we've got in detroit associate -- >> we'll be on your side. >> ron fournier and in washington, msnbc political consultant, casey huhn. >> ron fournier in retirement. >> wait -- >> so, you're out of retirement.

and for good reason. >> why don't i do this story first? >> i want to talk to ron first. so, the washington post, just an amazing story, top aides leaked em mow details bill clinton inc, talked $66 million they think they can shake down from people who are also giving money to the foundation. lead story in the "the new york times." you had a top clinton person tell you a long time ago, back in 2015, on all of this, follow the money, follow the money. well, we're getting closer to the start of that path, to start to figure this out, aren't we? >> first of all, fact-check, i'm not retirement. i'm working harder than i have ever been. >> you're smoking cigars and just watching football games, right sf. >> whenever i can. the lions won last week, they

beat the redskins. i did that story the one you talked about, this scandal broke in early 2015, it was based on a story from a person who worked for the clintons. the reason she had a secret server, because the circle of the enrichment that was clear even then. some connections between doug band and, you know, shaking down donors at the time and this person was saying this is really about the foundation. it's not about the e-mail. more importantly, joe, for the next 18 months, i wrote story after story, basically bragging the clintons to stop taking foreign money, to come clean with te mail, turn over to inspector general the secret server to stop lying about what went into this. it was democrats, lot of people i have known for a long time, close to clintons calling me up

and e-mailing me d you think of this? did you think of this? when i read these e-mails that were stolen, these hacked e-mails, you see people like john podesta basically echoing my columns the last 18 months. it was those kind of people who knew what they were doing, undermining the public's trust in government which is important to democrats, which was awfully close to quid pro quo and her undermined her political authority to take on republicans. her trust numbers collapsed as predicted by her own people and we now see, doug band is put in writing in memo the worst fears of the clinton folks, not ron fournier, the clinton folks who for months now have been begging the clintons to come clean.

>> bashed by client whereon supporters, just torn to shreds, on cable news, tearing ron fournier to shreds for saming the exact same thing that clinton campaign team was saying behind closed doors, trying to get her to come forward and come clean. >> let me go through some of this to lay it out for folks. >> i want to see what steve thinks. >> we'll do the charts on obamacare next. the clinton foundation and bearing their name are facing fresh scrutiny between the organization and the family's multimillion-dollar fortune. the revelations stem from the latest release of e-mails by wikileaks allegedly hacked by clinton campaign manager john podesta. these e-mails haven't been awe then kated by nbc news.

on behalf of clinton foundation and the clinton personally. doug band detailed a circle of enrichment in which he raised money from top-tiered co corporations that were client of his form. the memo which came during hillary clinton's time as secretary of state goes on to discuss how that worked for the foundation could be used to extract large speaking fees and other paid work for the former president even referring to the operation as bill clinton inc. the post adds that contract for clinton would pay out $66 million over nine years if the deals remain in place. part of the memo allegedly reads, independent of our

fund-raising on behalf of the foundation we have dedicated ourselves to helping the president secure and engage in for-profit activities -- including speeches, box, and advisory service engagements. in spot of the president's for-profit activity, we have solicited and obtained as appropriate in-kind services for the president and his family -- for personal travel, hospitality, vacation and the like. this does not get more clear. band's memo was sent as part of an internal review. as we mentioned it appears that stemmed from a series of complaints by chelsea clinton over band and his company's practices. clinton was told my father was told about explicit examples of cgi of doug/teneo pushing for

and sevening free memberships and of multiple examples of teneo hustling businesses at cgi and of people now having quit at cgi. john podesta reportedly responded, we need to move to a resolution of this quickly. and and doug band once called chelsea a spoiled brat. >> interesting to point, everything mika read there, it wasn't muck racking journalists that was digging through this, it was chelsea clinton had the initial concerns that there was something unethical about what was happening inside her own foundation. the next question is, was there a moment in your coverage of this explicitly where it was said to someone, if you give money to the clinton foundation, secretary of state hillary clinton will do x for you or for

your government? >> no, we don't have that kind of evidence of a quid pro quo. i think our political parties and i think democrats should have a higher standard than we have been caught red handed doing something illegal. what was done here was unethical, bad for the clinton brand. something that erodes the public trust in their leaders. now, we have chelsea clinton saying it. chelsea clinton is not a clinton hater. so, i'd like to make one point about how complicated this all is as a point of disclosure. i headed a project with my son when i asked president obama, president clinton and president bush if they would meet with my son who's mildly autistic. doug band was the person i was put into contact with. doug didn't ask for anything in

exchange. bill clinton spent 45 minutes with my son. couldn't have been more gracious and helpful with my son. this charity does a lot of good but the charity was used to do some things that aren't very good that definitely unethical and we might find out later with an e-mail dump. this isn't a black and white, black hat and white hat story. these -- the clintons are people who have been public servants for a long time, try to do for their country but keep stepping into stuff like this. >> they also trade in not only to make money on their public service but trade in to make a ton of money on their public service. in chelsea clinton's own words, they hustle for business, personal enrichment at cgi. >> one of the more damning things in the e-mail, doug band

said i'm subject to these conflict of interests as with cgi. >> do you think voters know this about the clintons and this may not move the needle? >> well, i think a lot of voters are aware of this as part of the honesty and trustworthy problem that she's had, it's mostly about turnout, whether this will get people who are saying they're supportive of hillary clinton, not many go to the polls or vote early as the clintons are counting on. none of this is brand-new information. i don't think any of this will bring the campaign to the stand still. >> it's bigger than that, joe. when she does win, if she does win, this dramatically undercuts

her way to lead. >> casey, you're with the clintons on the campaign. obviously, they have been frustrated. their campaign staff had been frustrated all along that donald trump has been and still is, even in the latest polls, seen as more honest and trustworthy than hillary clinton. i will say that again. donald trump is consistently has been seen by americans as being more honest and trustworthy than hillary clinton. what does that do to you when you go to sleep? not to you, but to the clintons. i would need a lot of ambien or something to get over that. >> that's point of frustration for sure. i think, ron fournier touched on this a little bit. one of things that we've seen, coming out in these earlier

wikileaks dumps, this is portrait of a staff on the hillary clinton side that's grappling with how to deal with what bill clinton has been up to and with their candidate struggling to put these two together. you saw this in their conversation about a speech that bill clinton was supposed to give at morgan stanley at the time she was announcing her presidential bid. the second thing i'll say about it, right now, hillary clinton is enjoying an enormous honeymoon period. she's really riding high. you can see it in her demeanor on the campaign trail. she's extraordinary -- she went to an adele concert in miami the other night. couple weeks out from the election. i think what you're seeing in these stories and what your seeing in this conversation going on is a preview of what comes next in the event that she does win this election. this is the conversation that

republicans in washington will want to have over and over and over again. i think they're already digging into this material on capitol hill. that does pose significant challenges. part of why we have been talking for so long on whether the american public is ready to have the clintons back in the white house. >> mark, how much has the disclosures unsettled people in the clinton's orbit and her ability to recruit people into the government if she wins if. >> certainly, no one in the clinton orbit likes to read this stuff and today, we'll see how that disseminates. i think, once she elected and i think she'll be, i think people will be excited and want to serve. i agree with what casey has said, the existence of this stuff will be on ongoing challenge for her and stuff that she'll have to explain and part of the administration. lot of excitement around her.

let me say some things, joe -- >> can we get a close-up of my face? >> i'm not going to -- >> i want to be friends. i'm just hurt. >> you're deeply saddened, i know, i know, i know. >> eddie, what were you saying last hour about me? i care too much. >> exactly that. >> one, we hacertainly have an appearance problem. i'm not sure i can defend the ethics part. one thing that's interesting, i read that 11-page memo, i don't think hillary clinton's name was ever mentioned in it. in other words, what was going on with hillary clinton at the

state department when that memo was written, teneo wasn't involved in it. it was between teneo and bill clinton. as mark said last hour, no suggestion that hillary clinton did anything -- >> it's not quite right. we do know that huma abedin was working for both legs of this stool while she was working for the state department she was answering e-mails and doing favors on behalf of doug band's request. there's a connection there. >> yes, but, rightly or wrongly, huma was called a special government employee and that relationship was approved by the state department. >> yeah, by hillary clinton. >> no, no, no. >> by her state department. it's obviously the kind of

thing -- if we want people to have trust in our government, having people being double-dipping on the government is not something that we should ever support. >> i'm not disagreeing with you on that point. but i'm simply stating the legalities of it. >> let's just say, ron, the fact that she worked for teneo and doug band. doug band's writing this memo and she's working for hillary clinton's state department, obviously, that's a massive problem. >> it's judgment issue. not a legal issue, but a judgment issue. >> come on now. >> it was hillary clinton's state department and you know nobody in the hillary clinton's state department is going to say no to her. >> that's not true. >> yeah. >> they're already investigating this, focused on this connection between huma and teneo from the

beginning. it's an ongoing thing on the hill. another issue on november 9th. >> i certainly agree with that. ll have to face significant continued investigation into all of this. >> americans have to decide in a up cough weeks whether she has the judgment to be president. that's why this is a problem. part of a bigger issue, republicans should have held donald trump and the rest of the republican field more to account for their wrongdoing and democrats should have been the ones last february standing up and saying, secretary clinton if you're going to be our nominee of party you have to be better than the republicans. get that server in the hands of the state department i.g. and let's end this now. if they insisted on that happening two years ago we would not have bebe having this conve. >> steve, what's an example of a

state official standing up to hillary clinton. >> we don't know, mark. all of this stuff was down privately. we don't know the answer to that question. let me say one other thing, we haven't seen anything in all this stuff that clearly indicates illegal behavior but to joe's point about who's tr t trusting more, clinton and trump, trump engaged in illegal tax evasion with respect to his foundation. and that is illegal. >> mark? >> i mean, you say we don't know of any issues. i just think you go back to, you know, from what you said the state department said this was okay, so it was all okay.

casey said, there's a reason why chuck grassley is investigating this. i don't know of any cases, what you're doing is pushing the envelope too far. to say this was approved by the state department assumes that the state department was doing this on behalf of the public's interest as opposed to the clint clintons' interest. >> similar internal compliance people they operated completely independently of the secretary. they were career people who made their own decisions. we'll learn the truth. >> it goes back to the server. >> i argued on this show the primary was an argument over the battle of the soul of the democratic party. there was an argument supporting bernie sanders this question would ultimately arise. a question around the moral and ethical judgment about the clintons.

a body of ed out there that suggested that something like this would immediately show up. and, you know, a large number of millennials and other folks who were pressing the case. others are still september caks. what we know is there's no evidence of quid pro quo. there's a amoral and ethical deficit. >> here we are, today's october 27th, 2016, and we're just getting this information out today. what are we going to learn tomorrow, next week, a and the clintons always say, we have been so investigated, a vast right-wing conspiracy and they keep doing stuff that crosses the line, keep doing stuff that requires investigations. it's poor pitiful me in the

words of linda ronstadt. why is everybody picking on me? that's why bernie supporters and other democrats just have clinton fatigue. >> one more depressing note to this conversation, 7:22. they said yesterday the clinton administration should she win is a target-rich environment, we already got two years of material lined up for investigations including four years of her history at the state department and it ain't good. >> jason chaffetz. >> how's work going out there,

ron? >> come see us. >> we love detroit. still ahead on "morning joe" -- the polls guru steve korniacki join us and hallie jackson and kristen welker is about to take off for north carolina where clinton's campaign today meets up with first lady michelle obama. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. [baby talk] ld ggling] child: look, ma. no nds.

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hello there. my name is bennie sweet one ocallahan. i'm from boston and boston is new england. which means new hampshire is like my kid brother, you know what i mean, i love new hampshire. back in the day, we used to drive across the state line and buy tax-free booze. i'm basically from new hampshire. go for a drive with your buddies and just get romantic and watch the fall leaves change color. frankly, new hampshire is too polite to say this, new hampshire is wicked [ bleep ]

part of the presidential politics. you can go to town halls and debates and get political and you can register to vote in your presidential election. >> that's ben affleck on funny or die to help get out the vote in new hampshire. >> the wbz and amherst poll keeps clinton at 41% to trump's 37% in that state. joining us from ohio, nbc news correspondent hallie jackson covering the trump campaign. you were at the hotel opening yesterday. what was the atmosphere like there? >> yes. >> hanging out in one of the finest hotels in the world. how bizarre was it yesterday to be at a hotel opening in the final home stretch of the campaign? >> reporter: very nontraditional. when you talked about the mood

in the room, listen, he's done other events in the past, that blurred line between corporate and campaign. we sit back behind eight rows of people. i was talking to some of those folks who showed up, some of them were conference planners, some were employees, guests of trump, and the press is all there. hundred members of the press showed up. again, the republican presidential nominee was choosing to be at a hotel opening on this last two-week stretch of the election. this campaign said it wasn't a campaign event. look who was there, kellyanne c conway, lot of trump staff, there was seeming to be a mix between the campaign side and then the business side. trump's message was pretty clear he wanted to get across. he wanted to be focused on being

underbudget and ahead. here's part of that message. >> we turned a property neglected for decades and which was losing huge sums of money for the federal government into a major revenue producer and job creator. this is what i want to do for our country. i want to go into the inner-cities, the poor, rural communities and the flailing schools and i want to work on a national plan of revitalization. i'm tired of the excuses from our politicians. i'm tired of being told what cannot be done. >> listen, guys, those are the themes that we hear every day from his stump speech. here in ohio, he has multiple stops, three of them, last one here in geneva, ohio, before he heads to maine. >> all right, hallie, thank you very much. mark, you were down there yesterday. you talked to donald trump.

what's the feeling in the room that trump was wasting his time there or was he really getting out that message, underbudget ahead of time. >> that was his goal to make the point of his business credentials. >> i asked that, because everyone was mocking him. i was mocking him yesterday morning. if i had a project, you underbudget and ahead of time zblsh as hallie said, there were a lot of reporters there. i think that's as effective a speech i have seen him give. people have largely mocked it as a waste of couple hours. i don't know if that event is going to break through to voters. it could. ier in heard give a speech quite like that. i doubt he'll keep it up.

again, as he said, that's not the kind of speech he's going to give at a rally with a couple thousand or more people. >> i said yesterday, i think that was pure media criticism of him. no voter thought, oh, my gosh, i can't believe he stopped to show his business credential. >> his people love that. they love it. >> his people love it. he's also in his comfort zone there. you can tell he's in his comfort zone there. if you're the campaign manager it's not a bad thing, guys, remember this is what he does and if he can say underbudget ahead of time, you're right, willie, that's probably a media bump. >> because of the media's obsession with it i don't know if the message he was trying to

drive, most of the coverage was about the hotel. >> i doesn't seem like a lot of people are listening to the media right now. i know that's shocking. >> a new poll among young voters doesn't bode well for the future of the republican party. >> boy, who could have ever seen this coming? >> by harvard institute of politics, shows clinton with 18-point edge over donald trump. despite those numbers, kristen soltis-anderson are whistliing past that. if you think this is a temporary blip that everything's fine, that voters will get old and decide they want to back republicans once more? wake up. the damage that is being wrought by this election is extraordinary and it was

entirely predictable and preventable. kristen joins us now. and john's got more on the poll numbers in just a moment. also with us, msnbc anchor and political correspondent steve kornacki. >> the republican party over the past decade or two seems to have done everything they could within their power to drive away young voters and you now have the data to prove they were wildly successful in doing just that. >> i said it on the set few years ago this was a republican's election to lose and they're doing a great job. >> they're working hard at it. what's the news about the republicans and millennials. >> donald trump's favorable rating is at 17%, essentially frozen there over the last six months. hillary clinton's is

out-obamaing obama if you can believe that in the final weeks of this campaign. >> wow. >> among wiets, the youngest voters. by the way, just not about trump. we said before, this election is between the youth election between hillary clinton, gary johnson and the couch. on this set when gary johnson had such an audition with millennials he failed it. you saw the trend line. he lost six points almost overnight. the aleppo moment. most of those numbers went to hillary clinton. >> so, kristen, our republican party has been working extra hard to scare away millennialmi what do you think, other than -- you can say it's donald trump, then you look at ted cruz, a lot of kids are going to want to be

part of cruz nation, what have we done, what is the greatest sin against millennials that we've committed politically? >> well, we've just decided they don't matter and we've decided on the right that every time we lose them there's some excuse for why we lost them. this isn't that big a deal. when we lost young voters by a two to one margin in 2008, you know what, it's just obama, a really exciting figure. that's fine. we lost them four years ago, again, obama's on the ballot. hillary clinton's favorable rating in this harvard poll is 40%. it's not great. her favorable for millennials didn't look better than the rest of the electorate. but she's winning at margins greater than obama. this is not just about obama and just because of hope and change

this is not just because young people tend to lean to the left, because that's not always necessarily true, for goodness sax, four years ago, republicans were at least able to tie with millennials in states like indiana. you had survey monkey come out with a electoral map come out earlier this week, if only millennials voted, it was blue, blue, blue. the only states that were red, were kentucky, west virginia, you were talking about 23 electoral votes for donald trump. >> wow. >> it's about a generation that now since they turned 18, the oldest edge of my len yal haven't had an inspiring republican to vote for. if we don't turn this around immediately w a new candidate, new message that actually speak to this generation we'll have lost them for decade and millennials were opened to an

alternate to hillary clinton. they liked bernie sanders. they looked at gary johnson until he fell apart. >> i mean, they were looking for an anybody but clinton or trump option. it's probably true. didn't know too much about gary johnson. i think he functioned a lot of this year as sort of a none of the above option. millennials were sort of flocking to him for a while. the gaffe on this show and not getting on the debate stage was a big factor in the decline we've seen with him. it seemed pretty clear that johnson's success was a function of millennials who looked at it and said i don't want clinton and i don't want trump. i was surprised that trump campaign when it came time to

sort of make plans for these debates didn't latch on to that idea, didn't latch on that theory and push harder, trying to find a way in the months leading up to the debate to get gary johnson on the stage if you can give him some visibility probably do more good for the trump campaign than the clinton campaign. >> what don't millennials like abt trump? >> a junlsment bully. a combination of -- >> how does that go? >> a judgmental bully. >> is that good or bad? >> i don't know the kids. >> you don't like judgment? >> it's about inequality. young people want to hear someone address equality. >> bernie, i'm telling you.

well, kristen soltis anderson, thank you. john dela volpe, thank you. >> i hope you guys will come back because ooii'd loved to continue to this conversation. >> why there are some misconceptions about those tough obamacare headlines. he has those and he's going to show them to us. let's move along. ♪ ♪ only those who dare drive the world forward. the callac ct6.

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♪ ♪ 44 past the hour. are you ready? >> yeah, i can't wait to hear the headline and president obama's healthcare loss suddenly a big story on the campaign trail. steve, you say the reality doesn't match some of the headlines out there. >> who's the cop on the simpsons when buildings are blowing up. >> chief wigam. >> chief wigam. >> i have to tell people what you said afterwards. go ahead.

all right, so, we read a lot -- >> this president has done something amazing he has. let's talk about the rising premiums, it may affect the politics. let's talk about the reality is, so, of the entire population it's important to recognize that almost half of people get their insurance through their employer and therefore not affected by what we have been reading about. almost 40% get their health care through medicare and med aid. the only people who are affected, the only people who affected are the people who buy their insurance themselves, either on the exchange without subsidies or buy it directly from an insurance company. >> how much has that expanded,

medicare? >> we'll get to that one second. >> i can't wait. >> we're talking about roughly 8 million people who are affected by this. that's a large number. but the reasons for it have to deal wi do with a couple of things the enrollments have been smaller than people projected, particularly what the administration had projected. i have a 26-year-old son he had to sign up for it. the cheapest plan he could find was $4,000 a year with $3500 deductible. so, most young people are prefrg to pay the penalty of $500 instead. as a result, insurance companies have dropped out of the program and so the number of average plans being offered has dropped from 5.9 to 3.9%. less competition means higher prices. >> a monopoly in 24 states.

they're only going to have one insurer. it's worth noting in the battle ground states except for arizona the changes are relatively smaller. when you get done, because of the medicaid expansion, the percentage of americans that don't have insurance has dropped to an all-time low. going back to the beginning the creation of medicare brought it down substantially in the '70s. lbj brought it down to about 13%. it's been creeping upwards as employers reduced coverage. it peaked over here. obamacare brought it down to its lowest level ever. >> what is that, 7 .or 8%. >> that's about 8%. >> the fact is, while it has certainly created problems for some people, no question about

it, for a much ladies and gentlemen of the jury number it's brought health insurance -- >> i can see that last chart. so that drop, precip us to drop in the uninsured right, how much of that drop is because of the expansion of medicaid. >> it's a combination, it's roughly even. a combination between the expansion of medicaid and medicare eligibility. >> so, attend of the day, are we going to be talking about if we want to fix a lot of these problems and we want to fix the bill clinton problem when he said it was the craziest thing he ever heard. does that -- a lot more subsidies or are we all going to

be paying a lot more tax and what we learned from this experience is there's no free lunch. you have to cover everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions. there's a cost to that. someone has to bare the cost. >> we knew it. i knew it. you knew it. now, several years later are going to admit it publicly. >> and obamacare in a way is the first step. if we get a government that functions again -- >> wouldn't that be something. >> thank you. they're yelling at us. we'll be right back. mpany says they'll only pay ye three-quarters of what it takeso replace it. whatre you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now you had liberty mutual new car replacemen™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels.

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coming up on "morning joe," donald trump has been criticized for not having a big data operation. but josh green takes us inside donald trump's secretive program in texas called project alamo.

>> wait, what happened at the alamo? >> stay tuned to find out. no spoilers. >> plus, for the clinton campaign, it could be the most damaging revelation to date from the wikileaks drip. new revelations on the clinton foundation and the family's personal wealth. we'll go inside what has been dubbed bill clinton incorporate.

welcome back to "morning joe." it's thursday. it's almost friday, october 27th. right, jen, almost friday. 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00

a.m. out west. with us, we have former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace. chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university, columnist for "time" magazine, eddie glaude jr., and mark halperin. a lot of big stories to get to this morning. >> whoa, this clinton leak thing has just exploded. hold on. >> this is huge. >> look at this. "new york times," donations to the foundation vexed top clinton aides. >> wj. >> the interesting thing about this is it verifies what i think you said yesterday that everybody just were just absolutely horrified what they had gotten themselves involved into, that they walked into this campaign with all this, and philippe at one point said there is no fixing this. there is no quick fix. >> no good answer. >> bill clinton inc. >> the "washington post" article is absolutely fascinating.

>> let's go through it. >> 66 million dollars to him personally. and they're bragging. >> do you think they're hiring? >> eddie, they're bragging. they're bragging in the memo that they can shake down the same corporations that they're taking foundation money for, that they can shake them down for $66 million for a, quote, bill clinton inc. for bill and hillary clinton personally, does that confirm what you and a lot of clinton skeptics that supported bernie sanders were worried about all along? >> it certainly -- yes. right? one of things that, at least the "new york times" piece said there's no clear evidence of quid pro quo. one of the things we do know is that it certainly confirms a deep suspicion that there's an ethical deficit that defines how they operate in the political domain. how they operate generally. an ethical and moral deficit.

>> and they're actually bragging about being able to shake down foundation clients. for bill clinton money. do doug band is bragging about it. he was doing his boss' doing. >> this was initiated by chelsea clinton. she went to the family's attorneys and said she was worried that doug band was, quote, hustling. s he was hustling business. >> the timing is when her name went on the foundation, when she had a bigger role. she asked more questions. >> does anybody in america believe that doug band would be doing anything that bill and hillary clinton didn't want doug band to do? >> i know. this starts with bill clinton. i also think it's one of those situations when you really look at this, and we'll get through it point by point, you have to wonder about being careful about throwing stones because i love the way everyone calls the trumps, you know, sleeszy,

trashy, whatever, because of a picture and, you know, money that they take from one company and give to another as a donation, as opposed to their own money. all legal, but still, like they consider it trashy and sleazy. and you call this ethically challenged. it's just so funny, the elegant words are used for the democrats. >> this is sleazy, and everyone knows it's sleazy. you're trading in public service while somebody is stait. >> larger amounts of money and the world is used. >> you're shaging down the world for $66 million instead of a rolex watch or a life sized portrait. somebody is going to win a pulitzer prize for finding a life-sized portrait of donald trump he paid money for from the foundation. we're talking about $66 million here, maybe $100 million. >> i would call that more than ethically challenged. >> ethical and moral deficit. >> i feel like we -- you're just elegant. i feel you would find eligate

words. >> he's elegant. here's the story. >> the clinton -- the clintons and the foundation bearing their name are facing fresh scrutiny over extremely board lines between the organization and the family's multimillion dollar fortune. the revelation stems from the latest release of e-mails by wikileaks allegedly hacked from the personal account of hillary clinton's campaign manager, john podesta. a purported eed 2011 memo from longtime aide to former president bill clinton, doug band, lays out extensive fund-raising efforts on behalf of the clinton foundation and the clintons personally. the "washington post" reports that band, quote, detailed the circle of enrichment in which he raised money for the clinton foundation from top tier corporations such as dow chemical and coca-cola that were clients of his firm while pressing many of those same donors to provide personal income to the former president.

the memo, which came during hillary clinton's time as secretary of state, goes on to discuss how that works for the foundation. how that worked for the foundation could be used to extract large speaking fees and other paid work for the former president, even referring to the operation as bill clinton incorporated. the post adds that the contracts for the clintons would pay out $66 million over nine years if the deals remained in place. eddie is shaking his head. i'm wondering if there are new words coming from him, like damn. part of the memo allegedly reads, independent of our fund-raising and decision making activities on behalf of the foundation, we have dedicated ourselves to helping the president secure and engage in for-profit activities, including speeches, books, and advisory service engagements. in support of the president's

for-profit activity we also have solicited and obtained in kind services for the president and his family for personal travel, hospitality, vacation and the like. >> nicolle, what do you think? how bad is this? >> well, it's not good. >> is that what they would say if the bushes did this? >> listen, the bushes would never do this. >> i know they wouldn't. >> it's interesting the point willie made. this came about because chelsea clinton started asking questions. one of the other revelations that came out before this story did is she had been called a spoiled brat. she doesn't sound very bratty to me. she sounds pretty insightful. >> band's memrow -- >> so willie, how -- this basically confirms everything that ron fournier has been saying for a year now. follow the money. source inside the clinton camp,

there it is, follow the money, my clinton source said in 2015. follow the money. and it's -- i mean, it's trading in public service for hundreds of millions of dollars personally. >> and again, just like the e-mails -- >> and by the way, forget the state department. maybe they're using the state department, but using relief work in haiti, hey, can you help those suffering in haiti? it's really important. thanks. listen, could you also give bill clinton $500,000 to give a speech? >> yuck. >> in your corporate luxury box. >> the e-mails also show just like the ones we talked about yesterday that the people around her are well aware of the problem. i mean, huma abedin talking about the king of morocco gives $12 million, right, to the clinton foundation, so hillary goes to morocco. and huma writes about hillary, she created this mess and she knows it. everybody, the people, the closest to hillary clinton know,

and hillary clinton must know on some level that all these things will not look good when you go into a presidential campaign. at best, they're unethical. now, again, what the question has always been is has it led to policy change. was something done differently by secretary clinton as secretary of state as a result of donations made to her and the foundation and bill clinton? that line hasn't been drawn directly yet. again, i think if you find that line in the next ten days you have a massive story in the election. this is big on its own. if you find a policy change -- >> kind of a morally deficit kind of way, or sleazy way. >> it's gross. >> gross. my father would find it -- he just does not get how this has constantly happened in sort of the clinton empire, and even from the connections to wall street, the foundation, these thin lines. it just -- it's perplexing to him that this seems to be acceptable. >> mark halperin, i actually --

i find myself this morning stunned by how crude, by how crude and how crudely drawn out this was. about the blurring of lines of helping, using the foundation you say you're setting up to help the world and at the same time, bragging about how you're going to blur the lines between the money raised for the foundation and one hand and the other, raise $66 million for bill clinton inc. they're bragging about it. >> there's no question that if you ever have been to cgi, you see business going on, and that bill clinton, doug band and others enrich themselves by leveraging those relationships and by offering access to people in the context of cgi. as willie said, the big missing piece here which doesn't diminish scrutiny on the things you have been talking about, is did any of those people get stuff from the government when hillary clinton was secretary of

state? we already know they got the ability to rub elbows with people in the clinton orbit. and i guarantee you while some of those companies were motivated by doing good, some of them were motivated by at least also doing well. >> we have two different quid pro quos or two different blurring of the lines. the one at the state department that we're all talking about and we'll see one of these days, we'll find out if there ever was a quid pro quo. we certainly have here, though, is on the foundation side, the use of the foundation to make hundreds of millions of dollar dprz the clintons. now, i wonder, is the attorney general of new york going to shut the clinton foundation down like he shut the trump foundation down? i mean, which from what i have seen, i think the trump foundation probably needed to be shut down. but those are just nickels and dimes compared to the money here. they're using this foundation and bragging about using this foundation to make the clintons hundreds of millions of dollars.

shouldn't the attorney general of the state of new york launch an investigation? and at least shut down the foundation, like they did with the trump foundation, until they learn -- because there's so much more money involved here. >> well, the clinton foundation does do a lot of stuff that's good around the world. you can't ignore that piece of it. i think that the thing that's going to get more scrutiny again is why were these people giving money? the clintons would say the heads of the corporations were our friends. we were in business with them. that's why, and they learned about the foundation. >> but doug band himself says we're going to exploit the foundation to make bill clinton inc. $66 million. we don't have to look into -- nicolle, i don't have to wonder why the ceo of dow chemical wanted to give bill clinton $500,000. doug band tells me he was shook down by bill clinton. >> i think the other half of the

si sentence was what was incoming. he talks about the $66 million and there were in excess of $100 million owed to them. it's sort of the more you read -- >> the value is increased by the fact she's secretary of state. >> i remember when vice president biden was toying with getting into the race. maureen dowd wrote a piece and there were other pieces about maybe one of his motivations and one of the sort of hungers in the democratic party was someone who had a better set of moral and ethical codes. i mean, this has been angst about the clintons since their time in the white house. >> eddie, you can look at bill clinton's speeches. he made $250,000 for speeches. and then hillary clinton became secretary of state. and suddenly, he became twice as effective a speaker because he started getting paid $550,000 per speech. >> it doesn't smell good. i mean, this is -- it doesn't smell good at all.

and part of what i think the democratic primary revealed was a deep seated suspicion about her character, not only her policie policies, but her character, her intimate relationship with wall street, with big money. what this reporting around the foundation reveals is it gives us evidence this wasn't just made up. right? you think about, what is it, $10 million from the ukrainian steel magnate, and what, he demanded access to president clinton. if he didn't get it, the relationship -- what we see here isn't the direct line of quid pro quo, but we see all of this connections and these relationships that complicate how we think her judgment will be exercised. >> joe, there's another factor here which is we know when bill clinton gives a speech like a lot of ex-presidents, he makes big money for giving a speech. that may be overpriced but

that's the market. it's the other payments. the consulting payments. what did he do to be paid money as a consultant. >> $3.5 million. >> a very big one because it goes to the nonprofit college industry. >> how much did he get paid for that? $14 million, $15 million, some staggering number. >> $3.5 million a year. >> what was he actually doing for them? >> i think he gave a couple speeches. >> he did, and he attended some meetings and lent his prestige to their business. >> willie and i have been trying to do that because we were runners-up in the nobel prize every year. >> we carry that prestige around with us. you can't put a number on that. >> you can't. >> but you would put a number on it. >> i would. i would, if nobosomebody paid m4 million to be their provost at a university, i would, but i wouldn't say i'm helping little kids in haiti in one hand.

>> they do great things at cgi. >> they help themselves. this whole thing that james carville said somebody is going to hell for talking about this, you can just help little kids in haiti. >> without the $14 million? >> you can set up hospitals. there are a lot of people who do it. bill gates actually gives his money away. it's not a profit-generating -- it's not using context. okay, here, pay peter, now pay paul. now pay peter, now pay paul. again, that's not me talking. willie, that's doug band. in a memo talking about how they're shaking -- and by the way, when i say that's doug band -- >> it's the clintonalize over again. >> it's bill and hillary clinton. it's not doug band. doug band is one of the most loyal people i have ever met. he's extraordinarily loyal to bill clinton. so loyal it was maddening at times. so loyal, he didn't care what anybody thought about him, who hated him. his job was to protect bill clinton. i will say, he did it better

than anybody i have ever met in my life, protecting a political person. he was inseparable from bill clinton. when we say doug band, we're really saying, i'm saying at least, bill and hillary clinton. >> unlikely that doug band is freelancing. i think larger point to think about is it was only august when the clinton foundation finally said, okay, fine, we'll stop taking foreign donations. same thing with the e-mail servers. hillary clinton had to be convinced they could be a problem. it wasn't her instinct to say, as secretary of state, maybe we should stop taking foreign foundations to the foundation. maybe i shouldn't have a private server. it took a lot of people to finally tell her it was a bad idea. >> still ahead on "morning joe," reality tv. ana marie cox with her take on picking sides in the trump era and the politics of fact. >> but first, the numbers game. polls paint a conflicting picture of the state of the race with just 12 days to go.

but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning. snow is flying in northern portions of pennsylvania and through central new york this morning, and in most cases, the first snow of the season. not too bad on the roads but that will change in the higher elevations. the snow forecast throughout the rest of today, tonight, and tomorrow. this the catskills, the berkshires and the white and green mountains of new hampshire and maine. great for the ski areas. killington opened yesterday. for the west coast, this is hurricane seymour. it's dying but the moisture is pulled to the north. we have a soaking rain already in northern california and over the next two days that's going to move to san francisco later today and even outside of los angeles this time tomorrow. we'll watch that for you and paublth of flash flooding there, and how about the middle of the country? 80s widespread from the southeast to denver to south carolina. it's incredibly warm and mild, and how about the forecast for

the cub snz we return to play on friday. some showers around but not bad. temperatures in the 60s and look good for game four and game five. looks like a great world series is under way. new york city, just drizzle and showers for you this morning. heavier rain this afternoon. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. for a 100% fresh mouth. feeling 100% mes you feel bold engh to... ...assist a magian... ...or dance. listerine. bring out the bold™

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conducted saturday through tuesday, trump has cut clinton's lead to just three points. 44% for the democrats, 41% for the republican. half a point outside the margin of error. >> that poll was taken the last three days. >> gary johnson gained back some support to 7%. someone explain that. trump's rebound is largely attributed to a comeback with independent voters. trump is ahead 41% to 28%, two

weeks ago, they were tied. mitt romney won independents by five points, according to 2012 exit polls. >> okay, so it's close. it's a tie. hey, oh, wait, there's two other polls. >> two other polls conducted slightly earlier, last thursday through this monday, and they show a wider cap. the usa today poll gives clinton a nine-point edge, 47% to 38%. the third party candidates just taking 6%. in an associated press/gtk period in the same period, clinton has a 14-point lead among likely voters. clinton at 51%. trump at 37%, johnson at 6%. >> nicolle, does the clinton camp even think they're up 14 points? >> no, they don't think they're up double digits. they think this is -- you know, maybe a five-point race. they don't describe it as tightening because they never described it as widening. i don't think they dispute these numbers that show it four, five,

but i think they, because they never saw it as the 12-point race that i think the "washington post" slaeths/abc p. >> you're saying the same thing. every internal poll shows it four, five, six, seven, but it's a lot tighter. but five is still a landslide. it depends on the trend line. >> right, and no one disputes that trump could get to 266. i have never heard people really en masse in either party dispute he could get to the number, 266. but nobody can tell you where that next state is, because what the trump folks point to, i heard from boris last night around 11:30, oh, colorado. they're down nine in colorado. new hampshire, almost double digits down in new hampshire. pennsylvania, they're down almost nine. the dispute isn't over whether they can get to 266. i think they can, but no one has a plausible or credible explanation for how -- >> i have one. >> tell me.

>> i have one. and mika is going to read it now. i actually do think new hampshire is the only way he gets there. they are -- they are obsessed on colorado. >> not going to get colorado. no way. >> i could be dead wrong. there's just no way they're going to win colorado. it's just demographically, i couldn't find a state that would be a swing state worse for them other than maybe virginia. but virginia and colorado are similar. highly educated. suburban. hispanic, it is the last place -- and there's boulder, colorado. they smoke a lot of pot there, a lot of kids there. boulder, colorado, is great college town. the best. go ahead. >> i think hillary is in better shape than obama was in colorado and virginia. so i don't think colorado and virginia are at all in reach for donald trump. >> i think new hampshire and the second district in maine is their only hope. >> where trump is going today.

the new nbc/"wall street journal"/marist poll has hillary clinton opening up a nine-point lead in new hampshire. >> now, this also -- >> 45% to trump's 36%. >> this goes back to last week, right, alex? so this is another one that goes back to last week. monmouth had a newer poll that came out. >> right, and that one was conducted slightly later. shows a four-point race. okay, the wbz/umass amherst poll puts clinton at 41% to trump's 37%. >> that's four points in new hampshire and a new one. >> then a new monmouth university poll taken saturday through tuesday gives clinton 46%, trump 42%, and johnson 7%. >> so nicolle, i understand if you do the averages, it's going to be -- and four points is still a loss, but you're seeing, again, the only thing i'm looking at is trend lines right now. it seems, doesn't it seem if he wins, and by the way, we're saying 266. he has to win everything.

>> him winning florida, ohio, he wins north carolina. i mean -- >> right, he wins nevada. he wins -- there's got to be a trend. >> the gop keeps the senate. there's no one that thinks all those states are going to swing gop, but give him all that in the most generous -- >> don't say there's no one who doesn't think that. it's possible. it depends on what the trend lines are. if the trend loins continue over the next 12 days like they have over the past 5, it's possible. >> it's possible, but you also haven't seen the impact of newt's explosion with megyn kelly, and the front page story is gop's war on women. new hampshire has a lot of independent women. these polls also don't bake in what has been a horrific week for donald trump with women, who are the kind of people who close those gaps. the polls in the final weeks are usually watching the swings among independent women. >> coming up on "morning joe," what is donald trump's plan b? josh green of bloomberg business

week takes us inside trump's data operation in san antonio, known as project alamo. that will power his election victory or whatever comes next. back in just a moment. so what'your ns? i got a job! i'll be programminat ge. oh i got a job too, at zazzies. riends gasp) the app whe u t fruit hats on animals? i love that! thatpsachines mmunatde nterpting) st zed you. (phone vras) look at it! (friends giggl can do dogs, hamsters, guinea pigs... you name i i'm going to transrm the wthe . (proly) programmed that hat. and n do casaba melons i'll bhelping turbines power cities. put a turbe on a cat. (friends oohnd ahh) i n mama hospitalsun more efficiently. sce at credit karma. this isn't competion "whatcha dt "what the?" "don't you know thathecking your credit score lors it. "actually, checkinyour oedit sca doesn't affect it at all "i guess i could just check my yocredit score t" lors it. heck outret karma a y."

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coming up on "morning joe," chris jansing joins us live from north carolina where 600,000 votes have been cast so far, and where the first lady will campaign with hillary clinton today. ost

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of the track team, and if i'm late... she doesn't really think she's ing to getut of here, does she? he is anyone there? rrr!ew. wow. eve from o standar, you ok awful. oh, swtie, what happened? girl: me? friend becky go to talk to this suer-ce boy, and tried to act like i wasn't jealous, but i so totly was, and then, out of nowre, ths concre barrierjusto. maybe it was a semi. u mean yere drivg? yeah. i an, i know the whole "es on the road" thing. but this was a uper imptant tex texting? great. but it was only, like, 5 seconds, and i'm a really, really fasastexter, so it wasn't en a b deal. actually, has textede back yet? [squishing sou] wow, i get, like, nbars in this ple. i wonder if they have wi-f here.

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exactly. >> which i kind of like. i have gotten to the point where i like people that way. >> yeah? >> yeah. >> do you know we're on the air? >> i did notice. mark had me captivated. >> the show is amazing because it doesn't matter. we had a great conversation cameras on, cameras off. >> keep going. i almost insulted an entire region. >> on air. >> 12 days left, and even more new polls are coming in this hour. >> really? >> pennsylvania, trump trailing by seven points in the "new york times"/sienna college poll. 46% for clinton. 39% for trump. johnson, 6%. also a seven-point race --

>> sounds about right. >> according to the detroit free press/wxyz poll, clinton at 41%, trump at 34%, coming back slightly from an 11-point deficit earlier. >> pennsylvania, as we have been saying for 800 years, fool's gold for republicans. this year, it's going to be the same. there's no way donald trump can ever win that state because of the suburbs. the philly suburbs. all of the people that he has gone into overdrive offending this month, it's just that band around the suburbs. >> any republican in theory could win pennsylvania but not this republican in this year. >> this republican is not a republican. >> given the big five states, there's not a single other state or state combination where he's anywhere close today to 270 except for some polls in new hampshire. but there a lot of republicans who don't think new hampshire is any more winnable than colorado

or pennsylvania. >> they're wrong. it's winnable. what's interesting, mika, is trump is not going to win it this time because of the philly suburbs. mitt romney wasn't going to win it four years ago because of the center of the state. and i mean, the areas that trump is strong in now, romney was weak in. and vice versa. >> it remains a tight race in north carolina. donald trump campaigned there last night, and hillary clinton heads there today. nbc's chris jansing live in winstowin s winston salem, north carolina, where first lady michelle obama will be appearing with hillary clinton today. chris. >> reporter: hey there, mika. this is kind of an epic state, north carolina, if you're a political junky because you have three marquee races, president, governor, senator, and all of them right now too close to call. if you're hillary clinton and you want to win, what do you do? you go on stage with another of the most famous women in the world, michelle obama, who has shown incredible political skill

in prosecuting the case against donald trump. but also, they share something. they want more women to be in office all across the country. take a look at the latest polls to show you how close it is here. in the presidential race, the latest poll has hillary clinton up one point. talked to the clinton folks last night. their internals show them two to three points. nevertheless, an incredibly tight race. the governor's race, the democrat roy cooper is ahead, but take a look at those numbers in this all important senate race, where you have debra ross down by three. burr virtually has to win if there's any chance at all of the republicans to hold the senate. that's where we stand right now, and the timing is not exactly coincidental. we have been in early voteing for a week. the democrats like the numbers they see so far in terms of turnout. but today is the day that early voting expands. there's been a lot of court cases, been a lot of concerns about what happened on the coast

with hurricane matthew and how that would affect turnout. and so they're feeling today like they want to really get this push. they want to get the coverage. you see the local media out, and you also see the folks out, that they want to get to the polls and bring their friends to the polls. by the way, the first person in line here got here at 10:00, and the other thing you're seeing, 10:00 last night. for 2:00 event today. one more thing you're seeing, mika, a lot of mothers and daughters here because they think they're going to watch somebody who is going to make history. >> wow. chris jansing, thank you very much. joining the table, we have senior political correspondent ana marie cox. and senior national correspondent for bloomberg business week, josh green. josh co-wrote the cover story for the magazine's new issue entitled "trump's plan b, inside his big league data operation." and for it, josh was granted an exclusive look into trump's massive voter database, which is

built to last no matter what happens on election day. tell us more. >> basically, the trump campaign invited in me and my colleague sasha eisenberg, who literally wrote the book on campaign technology, to essentially so show off what they built. there's sensitivity around the public impression that trump's ca campaign is no more than trump and a twitter feed. and they really haven't publicized it. they let us in, shared data, polling, strategy. we got to talk to everybody down there. >> what did you find? >> what we found is they have really built this massive data operation, pulling from the rnc, european data scientists and built a machine that they have code named project alamo. >> i do not understand, like, do they know what happened at the alamo? >> not sure about that. >> this is a campaign that plays "you can't always get what you want" at aftevery rally.

>> there's nor staff in san antonio than at trump towers. >> call it project spurs. >> it's in san antonio because the guy who built the trump realty winery websites is located in san antonio. he now runs the operation. >> this is impressive, you're saying. >> well, it's -- >> is it impressive? >> it's impressive in the sense that he has built massive small-dollar fund-raising operation, which because it was paid for by campaign funds, trump can take after the election and use as an audience for a trump tv network or a 2020 presidential run or some kind of media politics combination. >> so, it's a grift. a little bit. like, because of the data he's gotten from the rnc that he now owns. >> i'll say this, it got cut from the piece, but i talked to a republican strategist very much in the anti-trump camp who likened this to the nigerian prince spam we get in our e-mails, so yes, there are

people who think this is a grift. >> it's more than a hack distribution network, which is sort of what it looks like. >> very much so. >> you were telling me this earlier, that it looks like they spent more on hats than polling. the hat tag data. but this is gnaw true. they're actually spending money? because it looks like they're using hats instead of polling. >> they're actually very proud of their hat sales and showed me when i was down there, they have two auto pen machines that sign hats all day long. it's actually a fund-raising mechanism. they make a lot of money off the hats. they're not -- >> do they confuse the hat sales with polling? >> well, i think that they view hat sales as an indicator of popularity and the more they sell, the more popular they are. but they also do have polling, sophisticated polling and election simulators, at least the ones we were shown, showed them in fairly rough shape in the election. their guy down there said, look, our models mirror nate silver's

models, which are running at about 10%. >> your latest piece for mtv.com is titled trump's unreality show, not believing anyone is exactly what he wants you to do. you write in part this, we have all been freaking out with justification over donald trump's dale ynls with rejecting the results of the election, but as bad as that is, it's not the worst thing trump has done. rather, trump's refusal to commit to the peaceful transition of power is just a function of his larger attack, his systematic dismantling of our shared reality. trump's truculent deceitfulness is an innovation on how one traditionally works the refs. rather than argue each individual call with the hopes that one or two eventually break your way, you just flout all the rules you can. the refs stay so busy administering penalties on one side that their inability to police the opposing players' minor infractions looks like favoritism, even to those who aren't fans of either team.

thus, the outcome of the game is tainted even if most people believe team clinton deserve to win, monday morni ing quarterbas will insist the game get an asterisk. even worse, no one, not the fans of either team nor the unaffiliated will trust the refs quite like they used to. a great point. that has been happening. >> took a while to get there, i guess. i'm very conscious now of how many words i had to use. >> a deflection issue. >> i think this is sort of people talk so much about the way that trump has his own reality and his insistence on just saying these things that are overtlies that almost we get tired of pointing out the lies and they lose their impact. it's a massive gaslighting campaign, that i think a lot of people, especially who think of themselves as independent or progressive think that's just a problem for conservatives. they're the ones living in their own reality. but i think there's been, because he's so successful -- >> let me stop you right there. why is it, we ask this question earlier this morning.

why is it that more americans believe donald trump is honest and trustworthy than hillary clinton? >> well, i do think there's something happening there, anyone who is that offensive can't be lying. i think there is sort of a weird kind of logic. >> i think you're right. >> it's true. you know, anyone who is willing to like offend that many people with these really gross things, anyone who is willing to say that, they have to be telling the truth. i think that's a fallacy. that's a logical fallacy. >> it's what i always said. nobody stops you when you're going 90 miles per hour. and so if one day donald trump says, i was the person that was at the forefront saying we should not go in and get gadhafi out, when there's videotape who said he did do it, look at him, that guy on tv. he's a straight shooter, right? >> those attacks work with trump. how many months did we go with people thinking that he was

against the iraq war, when it turns out there's tape showing that he was for it? >> well -- and there's a great example. he takes all sides. so you can't really say he was for it or against it. but he didn't pick which one. >> it's his enthusiasm in whichever direction he's going. >> so he's going 90 miles per hour. so the cops, whoever they are, trying to catch up with him, can't catch up. clinton is also speeding. but cops are like, well, we'll be right there. you know. so what wound up happening is no one trusts the cops because they're not catching either person. >> that's very good. >> thank you. >> yeah. >> so after that, after the race is over or whatever, like the cops are still suspect. >> the metaphors are flying 90 miles per hour. suspect. >> but the cops now are not trusted, period, and that moans a lot for us moving on after the

election. trumpism is here to stay even if trump is not, and that concerns me. >> i don't know. i don't know that trumpism is here to stay. i would like to -- i would like marco rubio or ted cruz to try this four years from now. i think they'll be shocked. i think he gets away with it. because he's had this massive platform. you may be right. but i will say, though, people have been so offended by how the refs have been calling this, more are getting their news from facebook, ultimate sites, right? like "morning joe," of course. >> which one is starsky and which one is hutch? >> i love starsky and hutch. >> a good show. >> the open. >> you probably didn't see the movie, did you? >> no. >> the movie was good. >> i don't do movies. >> who played huggy bear? >> ana marie cox, thank you. josh green -- >> snoop dogg. he was good. >> the new issue of bloomberg

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joining us now, editor in chief of "time" magazine, nancy gibbs. she's here to reveal this week's cover story, which is on anxiety, depression, and the american adolescent. this is like the issue of this generation. >> so you know, nancy, i remember rolling stone had its like 30th or 40th anniversary about a decade or so, i'm so old, it was probably 20 years ago, but tom wolfe wrote a piece that said it's a great irony that the wealthiest generation

in the history of mankind is the most depressed and the most medicated. >> meded up. >> it's only gotten worse. what is driving that? >> well, you know, this is not about moody teenagers, which has happened forever. this is about an actual mental health crisis. there are a lot of theories. but the one variable i keep coming back to is this generation, the ultimate guinea pigs because of social media and their online lives, which they do not distinguish from real life. we have never had a generation in all of human history that has marinated in the stimulus that social media involves, where any problem they have, any slight they suffer, doesn't go away. it lives forever. it follows them everywhere. it's 24 hours a day. no generation has had to contend with that. when you talk teexperts about it, they say if you wanted to engineer an environment in which to mess up the teenage brain, we have done it perfectly. >> when we were growing up, somebody insults us, says

something ugly about us in seventh or eighth grade. we shake it off, we get patted on the back. we work through it. but the never leaves them. somebody says something nasty on an instagram picture, you're fat, ugly, mean, it stays with them. >> and everybody sees it. >> shout it from the highest mountain top. >> meanwhile, it's not -- let's be honest. it's not as though as parents we're all setting the perfect example for our children. if we're attached to our phones and we're not entirely present, we're not able to separate or in some cases if we're engaging online in behaviors that aren't necessarily healthy. so i do think that is a very big part of it. technology, you could say this over and over again, is not intrinsically good or bad. it's how you use it. the specific challenge of being a teenager is so amplified by the tools that these kids now have. and this is a cross demographic, it is not in one group or

another. it does tend to affect girls more than boys. but it's across the board. i think if we don't address this and think about this seriously, because schools and colleges are not in a position to -- they just don't have the mental health resources to address this problem. >> it really is amazing. and you say it impacts girls more than boys and you caution in the article or the reporter does, about demonizing technology. because there's more at play here. there are some serious diagnoses that we're learning more about. so there is that as well. we're actually learning how to deal with some serious mental illness problems. >> and there are obviously going to be ways in which technology can help address them. but one, you know, counselor in mont mana talks about the word over overexposed. the most overexposed generation because they're exposed to everything all the time. including their peer group. they're marinating in the

adolescent anxiety that used to be something at least you could turn off alt the end of the day, you go home, see your parents, pet the dog, go to sleep, and there's some momentary breaks. >> there's also a problem, too, isn't there? you talk about the ultimate guinea pigs in social media. it's also possible they're also the most overmedkalted. i have four children, and from one point to another, they stumbled across, because we moved quite a bit, onepedia strigz or another telling all four of them at different times, oh, they need to be on ritalin, they need to be on this, on that. i and have like three of my four kids that would sit down and read, you know, the cantebury tales at 7. i'm just wondering whether the experimentation also is a pharmaceutical experimentation. >> i think there are many elements to it, which are probably impossible to separate. >> because when we were growing

up, a kid bounces off the wall, they go run outside, run around. they threw michael phelps into the pool. start swimming. >> when we were growing up, mom and dad could turn off the tv or say get off the phone because there was one phone. >> everything is spread out. i love this list. we'll end here. when you're dealing with a kid in crisis, talk about it, pay attention, don't smother them, resist getting angry. that's really hard but that's important. don't put off getting help, and the last one we went through this, treat the whole family. not just the kid in crisis. nancy gibbs, thank you so much. great cover. we'll be looking for the new issue of "time" magazine, and that does it for us for now. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> that was extraordinary advice, definitely, as a parent. we have to talk politics this morning. why? because the polls have gone wild. two new polls with hugely different takes. is hillary clinton leading by 14? or only up by