we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "with all due respect," though, starts right now. >> i'm mark halperin. >> and i'm john heilemann. and with all due respect to all those people stressed out about the election, a word of advice from meditation expert, john harris. >> namaste. all right. on the show tonight, clinton foundation the soothing powers of meditation. but first, the politics of femininization. with just 12 news cycles left before the election, high-profile women on both sides of this race were out in force today, in winston-salem, north carolina, today hillary clinton made her first and possibly only campaign appearance with another soon to be former first lady, michelle obama, and it was a buddy picture unlike anything we

have ever seen before. >> seriously, is there anyone more inspiring than michelle obama? she and the president have been such wonderful friends to me and my family. it's meant the world, the world to me. >> if people wonder, yes, hillary clinton is my friend. i admire and respect hillary. she has been a lawyer, a law professor, first lady of arkansas, first lady of the united states, a u.s. senator, secretary of state. that's right. hillary doesn't play. she has more experience and exposure to the presidency than any candidate in our lifetime. yes, more than barack. more than bill. so, she is absolutely ready to be commander in chief on day one. and yes, she happens to be a woman.

>> meanwhile, in springfield, ohio, donald trump held his own rally, backdropped by several women for trump signs. but it was his wife, melania, who stole the show in several shows that aired this morning. melania defended her husband, and dismissed the women who have accused him of sexual assault. >> there were lies, and as i said before, all the accusations, they should be handled in a court of law. to accuse somebody of -- without evidence, it's very hurtful and it's very damaging and unfair. and honestly, but do we still need to talk about that? i think american people need to hear the problems that we have in america. >> she's so right about that. she's so right about that. >> they want to hear what we are do to make america better. let's talk about jobs. let's talk about secure our border.

that's what american people want to -- >> what do you need prayer for, if you will? that's what we say in evangelical world? >> well, we always say health. health is the most important, because you have health, you can keep going, keep fighting, and do the best for the people of america. >> mark, we've been saying for months that drrp has to improve his standing with women, to have any chance whatsoever of winning the white house. at this moment, given all things, where do those efforts stand? >> well, today, the michelle obama appearance is going to dominate. she's been out on the trail some, but not a lot. and some of them appearing today. since this summer, donald trump has cut the gap to some extent nationally on some states with hillary clinton. but mostly, that's as republican women come home, but not enough. i think if hillary clinton continues on trajectory she's on, despite donald trump talking occasionally abo

occasionally about child care. despite melania coming out, the combination of the clinton campaign's relen lows focus on female voters and the "access hollywood" tape is going to leave donald trump with -- unless something dramatic changes -- a very big gap with women that will make it mathematically impossible for him to win. >> well, there are long-term questions here about the republican brand, damage being done to it. we can talk about newt gingrich and megyn kelly the other night, various things that are going on. i'm actually somewhat surprised. i went back and looked at the exit polls from 2012, where barack obama beat mitt romney by 11 points, 55-44 with women. hillary clinton is up by 13 with women. hillary clinton up by 15. bloomberg, up by 14. that's actually surprisingly -- she's not doing substantially better than barack obama did. again, barack obama won the election and hillary clinton is doing better with women. but i'm surprised the floor has not fallen out more from donald

trump women given everything that's happened. >> over the summer, he was more like 20 points down. so some of that has come back. if you look back at the trump campaign's arc and their aspirations to appeal to women, african-americans, hispanics, their efforts were so slow in starting, so haphazard, and he is the going to, if he loses, leave a legacy of, no blueprint whatsoever, except in a negative sense, of how a republican party at the presidential level can do better. >> also, he's going to leave a legacy which again gets to newt gingrich and megyn kelly, where he has put his surrogates in a horrible position, where they have had to defend him from charges that are largely credible, only because he admitted on the tape that he does these kind of things to women. they had to defend him. and that tape will play for a long time and hurt the republican party, i think with -- they'll have to do a lot

of rebuilding to -- >> what he said about giving an attaboy to newt gingrich the other day, was, incredible. >> inexplicable. republicans are calling ate bombshell memo. another wikileaks disclosure giving fresh ammunition to claims of impropriety in clinton world. or as doug band calls it, bill clinton ink. the 2011 message banned an adviser to the clinton foundation appears to describe a system that generated a lot of money for the clintons. according to the memo, toercorpe clients made big charitable donations to the clinton foundation, while at the same time, hiring bill clinton to the tune of millions of dollars in speaking fees and consulting gigs. those deals also included, quote, in-kind services for the president's family, for personal travel, hospitality, vacation, and the like. today, at an ohio rally, donald trump addressed these e-mails directly and he minced no words.

>> the more e-mails wikileaks releases, the more lies between the clinton foundation, the secretary of state's office, and the clinton's personal finances. they all get blurred. just today, we read about clinton confidant, doug brand, bragging that he had funneled tens of millions of dollars to bill clinton ink, through the foundation donations, paid speeches, and consulting contracts. mr. band called the arrangement unorthodox. the rest of us call it outright corrupt. >> there's another e-mail from wikileaks disclosure that people are talking about today. a lot of republicans. this one is from 2014. it appears to show doug band setting up a meeting between a tenio client and john podesta. then he was a white house senior adviser. he's now, of course, chair of hillary clinton's campaign. all of this feeds into a pay-to-play narrative, that the

clinton campaign has been desperately trying to shut down in the closing days ever be election day. so, john, how will this description of clinton world and these latest e-mails operate about how the clinton foundation and clinton world operated play with voters between now and election day? >> let me say at the outset, that i have always thought, much more so than hillary clinton's e-mails, that the nexus of money, the philanthropic work, and potentially, potentially, policy, more areas of real concern politically for the clintons, going -- as we move forward. and these e-mails describe a messy, ugly, seedy, skeezy bunch of business. there's no getting around that. it is the case that trump's a horrible messenger on this issue because of the problems with the trump foundation. and because the trump foundation is at least as corrupt if not more corrupt. and there's also the piece that i speculated might be shown, which has not been, and that is that any of this has influenced

policy in any way. so those two things undercut this as a potent issue. and it's also awfully late. >> it's late and i think most voters who think -- who hear about this and process it think, yeah, that's the way it operates. we should say, this is the way a lot of political families operate in government. the difference is the scale and the fact it's the clintons and now that we have the descriptions of what's gob on. but there are plenty of people in washington who arrange meetings for contributors all the time. i think the danger here is, if there's another disclosure. the press have kind of become innurred to the daily release of the wikileaks badges. we still don't know if julian assange and others have a plan to maybe drop something big later. the russians plan to send something over late. some clinton people said last week, hell, they made a mistake. they released so much stuff early on, it wasn't that big a deal. the press doesn't care anymore. the press is primed to read these every day and to try to look for things. if there's a big thing, it will get a big hearing. >> yes, but although, with the

clock ticking, i'm not giving julian assange advice, but if you were really going to drop a bombshell -- >> he may not know about early voting. >> you might want to not wait until the day before the election -- >> do they do early voting in australia? >> or in iceland? >> any of the various places that julian assange is associated with? look, again, there is a lot of to criticize here. there's a lot the clinton foundation has done that's very good. there's a lot to criticize. but it still remains very remote from the lives of real people. >> and hillary clinton's name hasn't come up much, at all. >> that's important. >> but wait, there's more. much, much more to say about the campaign duet debut of hillary clinton and michelle obama. we'll bring in two reporters on the clinton beat to help us with that after this quake break. something new has rived. ♪ uniquely dignefor the driven.

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first lady to be so actively engaged in a presidential campaign. and that may be true, but what's also true is that this is truly an unprecedented election. and that's why i'm out here. >> that was, of course, more of michelle obama, the star of hillary clinton's rally today, in north carolina, making a joint appearance, former and current first lady, joining us now, one of the best reporters in the business, ann guerin, political correspondent for "the washington post." she is in the nation's capital. what'd you think of the body language? i remember back in 2008, bill clinton and barack obama did one event together, in the general election, and the body language was not all that warm. seemed pretty warm to me, today. >> yeah, it was. i mean, they came out together, not totally, you know, in the classic clinton arm-in-arm pose that you would see maybe with a

vice president, but very, you know, close together and michelle bop maobama made a poi saying that she considers clinton a friend. that was, in some ways, a nod to the perception that they do not have a particularly close relationship. it's certainly true that they don't have an enormous amount of experience with one another and that their relationship wasn't so great eight years ago, in the aftermath of the 2008 election. it has grown considerably deeper and warmer since and i thought michelle obama really had substantiative things to say today about what she thought clinton could do as president, that go beyond a standard, one democrat endorsing another kind of stump speech. >> anne, i think one of the big stories of 2016 is the just undeniable reality that michelle obama is now the biggest star of the democratic party. she's performing at a level even higher than her husband. but she's not out as often as

her husband, who's doing a lot of campaign right now. how much will we see of her between now and election day? >> a fair amount. surprisingly, a large amount, even by the clinton campaign's expectations. they will tell you, they are surprised that michelle obama wants to do as much as she is volunteering to do, and they say they are not pressuring her to do more, but that, in fact, she came to them with a number of proposals about things that she wanted to talk about, including today's event, as a side-by-side with hillary clinton. i think one data point that is telling is that they booked a really, really big venue today. it's a stadium that in some configurations, can seat 14,000 people, the way it was figured today, it seats fewer than that. and that there was a capacity crowd of about 11,000, according to the fire marshal.

that is more than twice the size of really any of the -- any but the very, very two tor three largest clinton rallies we've seen all years. crowd sizes in -- at recent rallies, and i mean, we are two weeks from the election. crowd sizes at recent rallies have been more in the 1,700, 2,500, maybe 3,000 range. certainly not 11,000. >> i want to switch over and talk about the wikileaks and the doug band disclosures. jennifer palmieri was on nbc earlier today. and no matter what chris jansing asked her, she basically said, the russians. the russians. this was done by the russians. do you get the sense they plan to keep that up basically as their answer for the next two weeks, or is something going to force their happened? >> they don't think something is going to force their hand, yet. it certainly appears that with 12 days left, they think they can gut it out by just continually saying, this is stolen property. by the way, it was stolen by the

russians, and has anybody taken a good, hard look at donald trump's connection to the russians. all good questions, all valid points, but completely beside the point, to the really mounting pile of dirty laundry that we see in these e-mails. notably, they do not dispute the authenticity of these e-mails. they simply won't confirm it. >> anne, it's interesting to point out today that donald trump again went out and sang donald trump's praises on the campaign trail, giving the clinton campaign a little bit of a gift there. at what extent is campaign full yay aware? have they begun through all of the e-mails, know whag assange has so they can be prepared? >> well, god, you'd ophope so, right? just to know what the potential trove is that's out there. one thing we really don't know

from the outside is exactly when it was clear to the campaign that this material had been stolen and exactly how much they knew about the size and scope of that theft. podesta, apparently, never deleted anything. he had many, many years of e-mails stored in his g-mail. so, with one -- apparently, one hack, the -- whoever did it, was able to go back many years, spanning podesta's time out of government, at the white house, and as he was the chairman in waiting of the campaign. so it's an awful lot that was eck posed there. and you have to think that the clinton campaign and lawyers have been, you know, going through that, for months. we knew that they knew that there was a risk out there. we just didn't know exactly where what it was. >> and we talked about it earlier. but i'd love to hear you enunciate. we've seen weeks and days and

days of these e-mails come out. the batch today produced front page stories about "the new york times." what was it about that banned memo that you think caused people to make a bigger deal than most of the previous e-mails? >> well, it drew a lot of lines that we've really only seen the traces of before. it drew them quite explicitly. and beyond that, here you have doug band, once one of bill clinton's most loyal and trusted, closest aides, appearing to point fingers at the boss, right, at bill clinton, saying, look, you know, how come you're saying that i shouldn't be doing some of these overlapping, having some of this overlapping business in charitable relationships. some of these, when bill clinton has far more than i do, and has even greater exposure if you consider it a risk, he has greater exposure than i do.

that's a fairly extraordinary thing for someone in his position. and frankly, who owed his position, to bill clinton, to say. and one interesting aspect of it, i think, raised the profile of it, and caused us to write about it in the detail we did, is that, you know, here you see john podesta, trying to tamp this down a little bit and saying, hey, cool it a little bit. i don't think that's quite the language you want to use. and band is saying, oh, no, that is exactly what i want to say and i want to definite myself. >> all right. anne gearan, thank you very much. we talk more about russia and the future of cyberwarfare, right after this. i've never been #1 in ything until i put ese bies on. now we're a winning strea ani'm never king them off. do i kw where i'm going? absolutely. we're going to the playoff. ani'm never king them off. altate guarantees your rates won't gop just because

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and need colmedicine that wor fas the choice is simple. coricidin hbp is the oy brand and need colmedicine that wor fas th gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your blood pressu. coricidin hbp. there has been a lot of discussion about wikileaks and the russian connection, but few people who really, i mean, really, understand the methods, contacts and meaning behind the hacks and hackers that have been me meddling in this election. i talked to two of those people and what they had to say was super scary. >> friday morning, washington, d.c. wikileaks and the russian connection obviously, matters a lot. trying to explore this very question. >> how are you, man? >> good to see you. what's going on? ? >> so, your first encounter with

this story was, what? >> well, we have seen a lot of russian activity going around, but the big moment of change came in june of this year. when a company called crowd strike first came out with pretty convincing evidence that there were russian hackers who were behind the attack on the democratic national committee. >> dmitry, how are you? good to see you, man. >> good to see you. come on in. >> okay. let's shoot some pool. >> okay. >> so the dnc had called us. they didn't know if they had a breach, but they saw some suspicious signs in their network. so they called us in, and within a couple of hours, we noticed that there were actually two adversaries in their network, which were tied to the russian

military intelligence, they used to be called gru, and the other group, which we actually tied to the fsb, the successor to the kgb, their primary intelligence agency. i actually think that they did not plan to start leaking. with us going public, completely accelerated their timeline. they panicked and said, we need a distribution channel. why don't we go to wikileaks? >> and because wikileaks is wikileaks, it's like having something appear on the front page of a big newspaper. and then we suddenly realized that this was sort of old-style russian information warfare. >> that's exactly what it is. it's information operation. and that's how the russians actually think of cyber. they think about it, how do we use cyberto weaken our opponent's defenses psychologically. the goal is not just to try to influence the election in favor of one candidate or the other, but to discredit the process. >> you don't have to hack all 50 states. all you need to do is create enough chaos, maybe in the voter registration rolls, you show up,

sorry, your name's not on the list. that happens to a thousand people in the line behind you, and that just sews doubt about the quality of the vote. >> and that place into putin's overall objective, which is ultimately to weaken the american presidency. it is certainly my belief that the goal is not just to try to influence the election in favor of one candidate or the other, but actually to discredit the entire process. >> i think his motive is to show that he's got more than nuclear weapons in his arsenal, and to show that he has to be reckoned with and dealt with in some respect. >> it's all about influence and propaganda. that's how the russians think about this. so the government is not prepared for the propaganda campaign that's about to unfold. >> yeah, yeah. man, now you're starting to freak me out. >> so today vladimir putin said that it was rubbish that the russian president or russia was behind donald trump, but there is no doubt at this point, among most experts, that russia was the one who drove this hack and

somehow, those documents made their way to wikileaks and julian assange. you can watch "circus" on showtime on sunday nights at 8:00 p.m. or pretty much on showtime anytime. up next right here, though, we'll take a deeper look at this issue at cyberwar and how it might flare up in a big way on election day with one of the guys you just saud, that's "new york times'" david sanger and stephen leiby of back channel. but first, these words from our sponsor. the no.1 choice of dentists. compared to oral-b 7000, philips sonicareflexcare plm removes significantly more pque. is is the sound of sonic technology cleani deep beeen teeth. hear the difference? gehethier gums in just 2 weeks vs a mual toothbrush and experience an anovaon a y.f clean. philips sonicare. save nowhen you buy philipsonica.

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>> translator: is there anyone who really thinks in full seriousness that russia is capable of influencing the choice of the american people somehow? america is not a banana country, is it? america is a great power. if i'm not right, please correct me. >> that was russian president vladimir putin today, speaking about a banana country, where he dismissed concerns that his government, his meddling in the

u.s. election. just before the break, you saw john's conversation with "the new york times" national correspondent, mr. david sanger, that was filmed for our showtime documentary series, the circus, filmed in conjunction with bloomberg politics. we're joined by david sanger, he's in "the times'" d.c. news room. and on the set, technology reporter and editor of back channel. thank you both for coming. update us on what your latest sense of the u.s. government's posture is towards trying to retaliate against the russians or taking some measure to either punitive or discouraging of them continuing what the u.s. government says they're doing. >> well, so far, the discouraging of their activity has been limited to public statements they've made, including the one joe biden made more than a week ago now, threatening some kind of covert action to stop them. but the fact of the matter is,

we haven't seen public sanctions and if there has been covert action, it's been pretty subtle and so far the only thing we've seen is the revelation in the ukraine of some e-mails made fairly close to mr. putin about their actions in ukraine. no one's quite convinced that that was american action. that if the u.s. did something, they were hoping it would be a little bigger than that. there is some debate about whether the administration should even act before the election. because if you do act before the election, that gives the russians a chance to act back on the day of. so it's possible you're not going to see real retaliation until after november 8th. >> i want to ask you this question, steven, just to start down the path i really want to go down. which is, what happens next, potentially. forget about wikileaks and the stuff you're putting out, trying to screw with this election and mess up with hillary clinton. what about election day?

what's the risk? >> well, there's a lot of risk. we saw last week, a big attack on some internet companies. and if that happened during election day, maybe it was a broader attack, there would be a good amount of chaos there. >> and still haven't learned who was responsible for that, right? >> no, we don't know. the feeling the was, this was not an international attack. it wasn't a foreign government doing it, but other people think it's a probe. and it doesn't have to be the russians. it could be individual actors in -- anywhere in the world, really. so there's been a lot of people talking for really for a few cycles now about the vulnerability of our election systems. one thing that's in our favor is, it's not one centralized system. so if you're going to attack the general election system, probably the best way would be over the whole internet in

general, because there's 51 different states and districts who are voting there and each one has a different system. >> david, i want to talk to you about one of the things -- we know the voting machines are not on line, right? they're not hooked into the internet. obviously, as steven suggested, if there was a massive out am in the interpret, that would create a certain kind of atmospheric chaos. but the thing you and i discussed down in washington was something more specific, going to the question of, affecting voter registration. and those systems are online. just sketch out the scenario by which that could create some chaos and pandemonium on election day. >> sure. so, you know, the possibility here is you've got a lot of people who are newly registered. they register into a central database. and they show up on election day, and they've got their little receipt from the day they registered, if they remembered to bring it, but nobody can find them. and then they have to vote on a provisional ballot. if you had a lot of those. if you had thousands or tens of

thousands or hundreds of thousands, it would really slow the works down. and you might not even get conclusions that night. now, a lot of states are preparesing for that. many of them are printing out their database or printing it out in sections and giving it to the polling places, so that there's a back up to the system. but as you've just heard, every state is different, and as a result, every one has different procedures. same is true when you get to the actual voting and the voting machines. most of them are offline, although there are a lot of people who are overseas or veterans who are allowed to vote by e-mail. there's some question about the security of that. and even if that happens, there are a lot of states, five in specific, that do not have any paper back up to the ballot that you cast. so if there's a question later on, very little to go back and

go the audit. other states have only partial backup. >> you know, if you wanted to slow down and generally have some polling places, whether it was some chaos and you were hacking it, the question would be, how can they really tell? i can guarantee with confidence, that there's going to be polling places in this district or that, where people will be lined up, not able to vote. there are going to be showing up, saying is, i can legally vote, and they're not going to be able to vote there. i think there's 100% chance of that happening, anyway. >> i asked you about wikileaks. to the extent we understand their motives, their goals, do you think what they're feeling what they've done with the podesta e-mails have been a success? >> i think from julian assange's point, yes, it has been a success. >> by what metric? >> it has been a success. certainly, the very first one where he was able to get the head of the dnc to resign, right? that's a pretty good hit. it's interesting, some of them -- the ones that came out,

you know, talking about hillary's speeches there, had they come out during the primaries, i think it would have had a bigger impact there. their impact was greatly reduced, because it happened to be the same day that we watched donald trump in the trailer talking about, you know, his views on women, right? so they were pretty much overshadowed there. so i think, generally, he feels, if there is an impact, again, we don't know what, if anything, is to come. though i have seen something interesting happening, as these mail drops keep happening, is that they have successively less impact there. so my hopeful view is that we're getting desensitized now to what's in the e-mails there. and so, maybe, there's some version of order restored to the universe, as we realize that just because e-mail is stolen, it isn't necessarily salacious on its face. >> david, we have y2k, a different proposition, but the

same kind of anticipation of a potentially cataclysmic event. and when he see when there's a super bowl or other things, the so-called national security events, how much of the limited bandwidth of the intelligence community and computer experts in the federal government is going towards preparing for election day? >> i've just been talking to some people who have been involved in that effort and they're priping for, in a monitoring sense, but remember, voting system is a state and local system in the united states. so not only is there no central base, there's no central authority. no federal authority over this. in fact, as we discussed the torre day, the voting system is not considered to be critical infrastructure. the washington monument is, the jefferson memorial is, movie theaters are, but nothing something that's underpinning of our democracy. that's something likely to change after election day. so you have federal government

officials who can look for signs of trouble, but they don't have a lot of authority here, because that authority is vested in the states. >> david, i want to stay with you real quick to talk about one other election day scenario, which is the possibility that an intrusion could happen in terms of how the vote totals are reported in -- on television networks and in other media. talk about that a little bit, because that can obviously also cause some chaos. >> it sure can. and remember, the vote totals that you hear on election eve are unofficial totals. they're sort of a quick put-together. and let's say in a close state, like north carolina, the early results you got were, uh, donald trump up by three. and of course, i'm making up these numbers, right? and then, a few days later, after all the official numbers are together and awe of the mail-in ballots are counted and everything else, what you hear is, no, hillary clinton won it by one. you're going to have a lot of trump supporters under that

circumstance say, hey, something suspicious happened here. i heard that night that he won and now she won. was somebody playing with the numbers? well, the answer might be that somebody was playing with the preliminary numbers, but not with the real numbers >> right. david sanger, thank you. steven levy, thank you both. when we head back, we'll head inside the trump bunker for a look at the campaign's data shop. and if you're watching us in washington, d.c., you can listen to us on bloomberg 99.11 f.m. we'll be right back. free to seize the savings on medicare part d. from oneollacoys on select plans toewardsoints on all presiptions, it's easy to savbig walgres. ♪ ♪ust sp by walgreens. sit back and enjoy the savings.lgreens. at e corner of happyndealthy th's why i use*trade mole.

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donald trump's behind-the-scenes data operation has been something his campaign has kept almost entirely from public view. but "bloomberg businessweek's" josh green and sasha eisenberg was granted access that the trump campaign is using in the final days of this election season, and possibly beyond. we are joined now by one of the authors of that piece, from our washington bureau, sasha issenberg. it is great to see you here. tell us about your story, sasha. >> so, josh and i went down to san antonio, where the trump campaign has built basically a second headquarters. there are people who go to work in an office than go to trump tower every day and it's where trump has built this sort of data digital operation that they've been loathe to talk

about. he got through the primary by doing very little beyond tv interviews, rallies, using social media, out of his own account, as a sort of broadcast medium. but since he got the nomination from june onward, they've built a system that's doing a lot of targeted communication and collecting a lot of information on his supporters. this is the first time they've pulled back the curtain to talk about what they've been up to. >> one of the things the senior official is quoted in the story as saying, it's something that's come up before, the notion of voter suppression. here's part of what you write in the piece, in "businessweek." a senior aide says, we have three major voter suppression operations underway. they're aimed at three groups clinton needs to win overwhelmingly. idealistic white liberals and african-american, and women. campaigns sometimes engage in voter suppression, but why would someone say that, given the optics of it? >> i think this is evidence of a campaign that is run by a sort

of top tier of people who have very little, if any, experience around political campaigns. you look at steve bannon, jared kushner, brad parscale, the digital director of this campaign. these are people who have very little experience at all. and evening they've developed a strategy, which is sort of the dubious from a sort of scientific perspective. but they have no idea how fraught the term suppression is. they think that what they're doing is basically going to the most unreliable parts of the democratic coalition, these groups that were -- you have a lot of voters who were not regular voters and where polls show not a lot of enthusiasm for hillary clinton over the course of the year. and they think that if they give them negative information about hillary clinton, it will keep them home. that's a little different than i think what the term suppression means legally, but the fact that they threw that around as freely as they did with us i think is a sign that they don't come out of a political milieu that -- >> you don't need to be a political expert, you just have

to have some sense of morality and pr to not say that to a journalist. >> yeah, i mean, this grows out of basically their strategic assumption at the end of the campaign, which is that they have this very fervent base, you know, the thing that's getting them to 42 or 43 or 44% in state polls. they recognize that that's not going to be enough for a plurality in enough states to get 270 electoral votes. so their strategic assumption at this point is, the only way they can turn their coalition into a winning number is to shrink the size of the electorate. and this is their gambit to go after groups that they -- what do they think they have the most chance to reduce turnout among democrats? >> sasha, your piece is pretty unambiguous among two things. one, they understand they're almost certain to lose. and two, that they have longer term ambitions along the lines a lot of people expect. trying to build some kind of media operation on the back of this movement. talk about that. >> so, trump has given the

indication that he doesn't much trust polling. they're doing a ton of it, from a lot of different places. every night, they run electoral simulations that predict their likelihood of winning. and we quote in the piece, the digital director, saying that basically their numbers are tracking nate silver's at 538, but with a lag because they're not relying on public polls. they know they're going to lose and what comes after is probably either a splinter political movement or the sort of trump media property that we've all been talking about, and they will have 13 million names they've collected over the course of this year to be an audience or a constituency for either. >> all right. sasha p. "victory lap" eisenberg. the story is fantastic. everybody should read it. it breaks a lot of news. you can find that piece on our website at bloombergpolitics.com and in the latest edition of bloombe"bloomberg businessweek." up next, it is time for some meditation. we'll be right back.

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with 12 days left, this campaign may have you burned out, run down, and a little stressed out. if you are any of those things, you're not alone. joining us now to talk about the stresses of this election cycle and how to handle them is the c c co-anchor, the great dan harris. >> thank you. >> also, the author of the book, "10% happier," the host of the 10% happier podcast, a 10% happier inc., as you say. dan, welcome. so we all anecdotally know a lot of stressed people related to the election. how pervasive is election '16 stress? >> it's quite pervasive. just looking at the numbers. the american psychological association suggests that more than half of americans say the election is giving them anxiety. 25% of americans say it's getting in the way of them doing their work. 50% say the prospect of a clinton presidency makes them angst.

70% for trump. 7% say they've lost friends over this election. >> it's not just doug band? >> no. and doctors all over the country are reporting people with heart palpitations, stomach problems, and compulsive cleaning. not a problem i've had. >> this is sort of like rare, utilitarian segment on this show. we're pretending to be a morning show here. >> a venue i know well. >> what am i supposed to do about it, dan? >> thank you for teaming me up. that was a softball. i think there are three big tips. one is limit your -- this is a tough thing to say on television, but limit your media consumption. we have to stay informed, but not too much. >> with all due respect, but with little ls. >> "with all due respect," maybe "nightline," if you have time. >> and the big piece of advice that doctors are recommending across the country privately and publicly is meditation. i'm obviously a big proponent of that. but i do think it really helps. in fact, we've posted some free guided meditations for people who have --

>> posted them where? >> thank you, mark. on our app, 10% happier. >> smoking dope? >> i don't know if there's any research that's gone into that, but one of your -- i don't want to name any names, but his name is alfonzo pena, one of your stage managers over here -- >> if i wrote a book about this, that would be my only advice. >> yes, smoke dope. >> what about medication. is that going to help? >> i do think meditation works really quickly. it's not -- you know, because you actually -- you and your lovely wife to be, karen, helped me write the book. a lot of people don't know this, but this is one of my closest friends over here. you're not nothing either. i don't view meditation as some magical woo woo metaphorical fix, it's brain exercise. and when you exercise your body, your heart gets stronger and you get more limber. and when you exercise your brain, you get less yanked around by your emotions. we feel helpless and angry and

we're allowing that to get us into arguments with our coworkers or spouses or we're kicking the dog and meditation just helps you not get so yanked around by that. >> that's kind of a general perception that meditation is kind of hippie dippy -- >> yes. >> bull crap. >> yes. >> bullpucky, right? >> yes. >> but you're a straight laced guy and you're saying this is a legitimate thing. >> i was of the view that meditation was for people who wear finger symbols and into crystals -- >> you say it like those are bad things. >> finger symbols and cat stevens' records. >> i didn't know that. we now know that he smokes dope and likes finger symbols. >> and those two things are connected. >> in many cases. correlation not necessarily causation. but, anyway, yes, i was of the view that it's completely weird for a long time but i started to look at the science. the science shows it can lower your blood pressure. so then i started to give it a shot. and look, there are plenty of

weird kinds of meditation you can do, but i think if you do the straight-up secular mindfulness meditation, which is what i'm a proponent of, you're in good hands. >> it doesn't have to be transcendental to work? >> you can transcend in lots of -- >> i can stay away from yogi and still meditate and be okay. >> a lot of people do tm, who are pretty straight laced. >> you've got a "nightline" coming up on this? >> i do. >> when's that? >> it's going to be on next week. i just got off the train from philadelphia and we convened a panel of clinton supporters and trump supporters and had them meditate together. it was really interesting. it was super tense in the room, because these people have serious disagreements. by the end, actually, they started talking about -- this is going to sound a little grandiose, but it's a point worth make at this juncture -- shared humanity. >> so strong trump supporters and strong clinton supporters by

the end were singing kumbaya? >> something like that. >> tell us again the app? >> 10% happier. and if you don't have an apple phone, you can get it at 10%happier.com. >> you seem to be aiming a little low? >> i pulled it out of my rear end. it's basically a joke. thank you for not getting the joke. >> i would like to be 90% happier. 190% happier. >> i'm trying to counterprogram against the reckless, over-hyping and over-promising of the $11 billion a year bull crap machine known as the self-help machine. >> but this book will change your life! >> thank you, sirs. >> john and i will be danless and back right after this. berty mutual stood with me when i was too busy with the ds to get a repair estat berty did what? yeah, with liberty mutual all i needed to to t an eimate was snap a photo ofthe dage an!

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>> godzilla plus. >> all right. me, too. head to bloombergpolitics.com right now to see what donald trump's followers are saying about the wide-ranging conspiracy to steal the election. until tomorrow, for me and mark, sayonara. >> coming up, "hardball" with chris matthews. >> something about women. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. who would you rather have in your corner if you're a boxer, i guess? michelle obama or newt gingrich? well, with the first lady, you have her inspiring young people to vote with a call for moral clarity. with the former speaker, you have him bashing a tv news anchor. and today, michelle obama took the stage in north carolina. the campaign with hillary clinton, in front of 11,000 people, she praised clinton, the first lady, took some jabs at do