>> this ayococ surpri. fbireormes coy this sunday, october surprise. fbi director james comey's announcement of newly discovered e-mails jolts the race. >> the fbi would never have reopened this case at this time unless it were a most egregious criminal offense. >> can donald trump use this latest revelation to reinvigorate his campaign? i will talk to donald trump's running mate, governor mike pence live. plus, hillary clinton fights back. >> and so we have called on director comey to explain everything right away, put it all out on the table. >> clinton campaign manager

robby mook joins me this morning. also, why now? comey under fierce assault from democrats. >> it does not make any sense to me. >> was comey right to go public with this news so close to the election? joining me for insight and analysis are, top republican strategist mike murphy. nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell, audie cornish and larry kudlow. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. perhaps one day this week's fbi e-mail news will take its place among other october surprises. it was on october 26, 1972, less than two weeks before the election that national security adviser henry kissinger made

this famous statement at the white house about the war in vietnam. >> we believe that peace is at hand. >> the moment was big. kissinger turns out was wrong and richard nixon easily won re-election. in 1992, four days before election day, president george h.w. bush's hopes were hurt when defense secretary casper weinberger, former defense secretary at the time was implicated in the iran contra scandal. then the weekend before the election in 2000 it was revealed that george w. bush had been arrested decades earlier for drunk driving. news that helped al gore pull even in the polls. that was actually our first november surprise technically. there's no way of knowing yet whether fbi director james comey's announcement will take its place among these more celebrated october surprises. we do know that justice department officials strongly discouraged comey from going public. democrats have moved from reacting with caution to responding with anger. they say if comey doesn't know whether the newly discovered

e-mails are significant or sent to or from hillary clinton, why go public right before the election? at the very least, this has reinvigorated the trump campaign and given new hope to down ballot republicans running for the house and senate. >> some of you may have heard about a letter that the fbi director sent out yesterday. >> with nine days to go, an object surprise. >> it's not just strange. it's unprecedented. and it is deeply troubling. >> nearly four months after recommending no criminal charges against clinton, fbi director james comey told members of congress in a letter on friday that new e-mails have surfaced which, quote, appear to be pertinent to the investigation. law enforcement officials say the e-mails were found on a laptop computer belonging to former congressman anthony weiner, married to, but estranged from huma abedin, a top clinton aide.

the fbi is investigating sexually explicit text messages wiener allegedly sent to a 15-year-old girl in north carolina. trump immediately tried to capitalize on the news. >> her criminal action was willful, deliberate, intentional and purposeful. >> trump's denunciation of the fbi on thursday turned to praise on friday. >> it might not be as rigged as i thought. right? >> according to officials, abedin used the laptop to e-mail clinton. investigators will examine the thousands of e-mails belonging to abedin to see if they have anything to do with the original clinton investigation. the official said there's no indication so far that anyone was withholding evidence. republicans down the ballot have seized on the fbi revelations as part of their closing argument. >> that is my letter from director comey telling me he is reopening the investigation. >> it's like throwing a political life line to

republicans who are in embattled house and senate races. >> is there enough time for trump to take advantage? >> this race is still tipable. it's not necessarily -- it's not going to move voters to donald trump. but it could move voters away from hillary clinton. >> before friday, it appears trump's path had narrowed. saturday, he stumped in arizona, a state democrats have carried once since 1948. clinton campaigns in phoenix wednesday. nearly 20 million americans have voted. more democrats have voted in eight states, republicans in four. trump is short of cash. on trump he wired $10 million of his own money to his campaign. bringing the personal total contributions to $66 million. $34 million short of what he originally pledged. big republican donors are abandoning trump, channelling money to down ballot republicans. >> we do have disunity. i think that's something that complicates us at least in terms of making sure that we have the basic mechanical things that are getting done to turn out the vote. >> joining me now with an update

on this investigation is pete williams, our justice correspondent. pete, there is one area where there seems to be unity between the clinton campaign and the trump campaign. let me show you both of their reactions. >> we are 11 days out from perhaps the most important national election of our lifetimes. voting is already under way in our country. so the american people deserve to get the full and complete facts immediately. >> look, i agree with john podesta and the clinton campaign. they're asking director comey to come forward and tell americans exactly what this is all about and release everything and let us judge for ourselves. >> all right. there's the one area of agreement. they want director comey to provide more details before the election. is that going to happen? >> not based on what i was told just in the last couple of hours. i don't think they plan to say anything further. they believe that they did the right thing by telling congress about this development.

their logic goes like this. that the fact of the discovery of these e-mails was going to leak. that if it leaked, it would come out in different ways and be interpreted in all sorts of different ways and that the best way to handle this was just to get out in front of it. secondly they thought if they waited until after the election, and then it was discovered they found mails that would play into this whole scenario about how the election is rigged. >> did he rush it? now we're getting reports that they don't know what's in the e-mails. they just know there's an e-mail cache that belongs to huma abedin. that's it. don't you wait to tell congress after you know you have evidence? this is just, there might be evidence, correct? >> we have been saying this since friday, that they don't know what is in these e-mails. that's a very important thing. let's step back for a second. they have looked at the laptop. they were investigating wiener laptop. they say, huma abedin used that

and sent e-mails through the clinton server. our mission was to look at all the e-mails that went through the server. we have to look at these. they haven't analyzed them. they don't know if they are significant in the e-mail investigation, was there classified information. >> to go -- one of the reasons why they didn't bring charges, one of the reasons comey said is because everybody had a security clearance. how is this different? if abedin was using this laptop with the same e-mails, it's the same issue. a question about whether the system she was using is secure, that's still been part of the problem. the reason they didn't charges, she had a security clearance. >> right. what you hear from any legal expert is that if they do find that there was classified information in some of the e-mails and it increases the nu number of x-plus some other number that they knew some classified information when they reached the conclusion in july and if they find a few more, that is not going to be changing the bottom line.

>> who is the target here? i ask that because she did sign a statement affirming she turned over any devices that had potentially that she used to conduct communication from herself and she didn't turn this one over and it would be -- it's -- is she the target here or is hillary clinton? >> target is a term of art. in the justice department land, it means that somebody is about to be indicted, so set apart target. so say that it is the clinton e-mail investigation. if you go back to comey's letter, he says he thinks these e-mails are pertinent. but he doesn't know whether they're significant. pertinent, because their mission was to look at all the e-mails that went through the server. significance, they -- many of them, they may have seen. they may be duplicates of what they have discovered. so they have no idea what's in these e-mails. >> pete williams, thanks very much. >> you bet. donald trump wasted no time yesterday trying to take advantage of this news and rally his supporters.

>> and they are reopening the case into her criminal and illegal conduct that threatens the security of the united states of america. hillary set up an illegal server for the obvious purpose of shielding her criminal conduct from public disclosure and exposure. >> joining me now is governor mike pence right here in studio. g governor, thank you for coming in. welcome back. >> thank you for having me. >> let me ask about the last statement in here. donald trump says that she almost with -- stated as fact that she set up this server to cover up criminal conduct. what criminal conduct is he talking about? >> well, i think this summer when the director of the fbi gave that press conference where he essentially chronicled that hillary clinton had said that there was nothing marked classified on her private server, he said that was not true.

when she said she never e-mailed classified e-mail, he said that was not true. he reiterated that before the congress. but then chose not to proceed with charges. it was just incomprehensible to millions of americans. >> you believe she committed a crime? >> well, look -- >> do you know for sure? he is saying it for sure. i throw it out there, because when people take it as fact, should he be saying that as factually? >> you have high ranking military officials. you have a sailor gone to jail in the last month. the mishandling of classified information is a serious matter. the fbi director concluded hillary clinton, while she was secretary of state, while she was taking major contributions from foreign governments, had a private server in which she dealt with classified information but also had communications that we already know about. i mean, as we wonder what this new pertinent information is, we already have seen e-mails that have come out through various sources about pay to play

politics, about -- that support this whole notion of clinton incorporated, that really -- that really are deeply troubling to millions of americans. i think that's why well before this announcement on friday, chuck, you saw tremendous momentum in our campaign. you see the polls closing in states around the country, the american people are focusing on the big issues in this country. frankly, i think they have come to the conclusion that hillary clinton is a risky choice to be the next president of the united states and friday's announcement just reaffirms that. >> do you think it's fair to the american voter to essentially have him announce something vague, but we don't know what it is? we don't know the seriousness of it. he said pertinent, but we don't know. is that fair to the voters? your campaign wants more information. the clinton campaign -- it does seem as if everybody wants more information out before the election. >> first off, let's remember how we got here. hillary clinton, while she was secretary of state, had a private server that the fbi has already confirmed contained

classified and sensitive information. it endangers the national security of the united states of america. there was information about military operations on there that could well have endangered troops down range. so let's recognize this all began with her. but the other piece of this, with regard to disclosure -- i'm very glad to hear hillary clinton calling for putting all of this out on the table. why doesn't she ask her senior aide to release all these e-mails? why doesn't she release all the 33,000 e-mails that she did not turn over to the fbi and to the congress initially? i think the american people have a right to know. but the decision by the fbi here i think is encouraging. number one, the fbi director is keeping his word to the congress that if new pertinent information came forward that justified the reopening of the case he would alert the congress. he's done that. >> do you think he has a duty to share more information of what's

known? >> i think he has a duty to move forward professionally and in a timely way on this. certainly, the public has a right to know. but let's be clear. hillary clinton -- when this story broke, i believe she was traveling with huma abedin. why didn't she turn to huma and say, put these e-mails out. why wouldn't she make those e-mails available to members of congress? >> definitely a question for her and her campaign. let me ask you this. yesterday, donald trump said the following. this is the lowest point in terms of our judicial system in the history of our country. do you believe that? >> i think this summer was deeply troubling to millions of americans when you saw the federal bureau of investigation following a meeting between former president clinton and the attorney general on a private aircraft on a tarmac that was discovered because of a local reporter who knew it took place and then a short time later you saw the federal bureau of investigation essentially call a press conference.

he literally indicted her in the press and then said we're not recommending an indictment. >> i guess what i'm asking you is -- >> there seems to be a double standard with the clintons. >> do you think director comey was pressured not to advise to bring charges? >> we know he was pressured not to go public. we're reading press accounts at the department of justice opposed -- >> you are implying he was pressured in july. you are implying he was pressured in july. do you believe this? >> i have had a great deal of respect for director comey for a number of years. when i was a member of congress and he was a u.s. attorney in new york state we worked together to work on legislation to protect children on the internet. i have always found him to be a straight shooter, but that is just -- just troubling to come out to conclude what would have been a violation of law for any other american or member of the

armed forces and to say that she was extremely careless i think was extremely troubling to millions of americans. >> why do you think -- you truly believe he came to that conclusion based on pressure from others and not his own? he said it wasn't a close call. >> i wouldn't care to speculate about why he came to that conclusion. i would tell you, i'm one of millions of americans that were troubled by that. why there's a double standard when it comes to the clintons. no one is above the law. the american people believe in that principle. and the willingness of the fbi now to say we have found what -- >> you are calling the fbi's credibility into question by saying -- you are saying, clinton is being held to a different standard. >> i think the decision -- >> that isn't what the fbi is saying. >> chuck, this summer i think when the director of the fbi -- let's start again here. after the attorney general of the united states met with former president bill clinton in a secret meeting on an airplane, then the fbi made a decision that made no sense to millions of americans -- >> the attorney general recused herself and said it was up to

comey. you said you didn't want to speculate -- >> the director of the fbi confirmed that hillary clinton had despite the she denied it, that she had classified information on her server. she had e-mailed classified information. that's a violation of the law. the american people couldn't understand that decision. i think millions of americans are encouraged by the willingness of the fbi simply to say, we have new evidence. we're going to inform congress. we're going to proceed forward. we're confident they will do that in a professional way. >> let me ask you another topic. last week, donald trump pledged to sue every accuser that came out to make accusations about sexual misconduct. is that how he will spend his first 100 days in office, that he is going to do these lawsuits? is that advice you would give him? >> donald trump's laid out a plan for the first 100 days. it's the contract for the american voter.

>> he is ruling out suing the folks? is he going to spend the first days of his presidency suing people? >> what i'm going to tell you is we're going to focus on reviving the economy, rebuilding the military. but through cutting taxes, repealing obamacare, having smarter and tougher trade deals. we're going to make appointments to the supreme court of the united states that will hold our constitution. let me be clear -- >> last question. >> you used reinvigorate. a couple of times. before friday afternoon -- >> you were reinvigorated before friday? >> you know the momentum in this campaign was rolling in state after state. i'm seeing it everywhere i go. the american people are responding to donald trump's message of a stronger and more prosperous america. i believe we're going to put our head down and kick to the finish. >> on october 17, donald trump had to turn in his tax return this year. is he going to release it before the election? >> i think as soon as the audit is complete -- >> there's no audit on this return. they don't make those decisions that fast. >> he will release all of his

tax returns when the final audit is completed. >> not before the election? >> look, the american people are focused on security and prosperity, on repealing obamacare, having a supreme court that upholds our constitution, a strong military, and stronger america abroad and making america great again, and that is why donald trump is going to be the next president of the united states. >> governor pence, appreciate your time. thanks for coming in. be safe on the campaign trail. >> you bet. thank you. when we come back, we will hear from the other side. clinton campaign manager robby mook joins me. >>wcome ck.

welcome back. when james comey made his statement, democrats reacted. by saturday, they went on the offensive. atta attacking comey for going public and worrying about what impact that news could have on the election up and down the ballot. joining me now is hillary clinton's campaign manager robby mook. robby, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks, chuck. >> let me start with getting your -- to react to how democrats talked about james comey before friday. here it is. >> this is a great man. we are very privileged in our country to have him be the director of the fbi. >> no one can question the integrity, the competence. >> wonderful and tough career public servant. jim was in the u.s. attorney's office in the eastern district of virginia when i was the mayor of richmond. he is somebody with the highest standards of integrity.

>> robbie, the final sound bite was from hillary's running mate tim kaine, a and he said it two weeks ago. does secretary clinton and senator kaine still believe those things about jim comey? >> i think the director does have a long and distinguished record. i think that's why people are particularly puzzled about this letter that was sent to the hill. first and foremost, it was three paragraphs. it didn't provide any details whatsoever. he said that there were some e-mails. he didn't know if they were significant or not. this letter was sent to leaders on the hill, unsurprisingly, it was leaked immediately by the republicans and leaked in a with a that mischaracterized the small amount of information that was in the letter. all we're asking for now is let's just get all the information out there on the table. there's hypotheticals flying all over the place. and i think what's particularly surprising is yahoo! news reported last night that director comey may not have even

seen any of the information in the e-mails before putting out the letter. so to send a letter to congress saying we may have information, we don't know if it's significant without looking at what's inside, ten, 11 days before a presidential election, it's very curious. >> john podesta wrote, he said by being vague, comey opened the door to conspiracy theories. which you have been saying and now a surge of fund-raising for trump and his team. do you think comey put the finger on the scale for donald trump? >> well, i think the issue here is if he doesn't come out and get all the information on the table, he is going to let anyone, any conspiracy theory take the day. i will say, we have seen a surge of activity on our side as well. we had our best saturday of fund-raising ever yesterday. we had over 50,000 volunteers out knocking on doors and turning our supporters out to the polls. we actually felt a surge of

support and momentum as well. so we're feeling fine in that regard. but again, let's just get all the information out there so that the rumors and the hypotheticals can be put to rest. again, we're hearing a lot of criticism now from former justice department officials, from former clinton, former bush administration, pointing out this is unprecedented. there are justice department policies against doing something like this so close to an election. >> there's an easy way for you to clear some of this up. huma abedin is a vice chair of the campaign. she may -- does she have access to her e-mails now? can she -- have you been through them? can you release all of this yourself? why wait for director comey to do it? >> i'm glad you asked this question. first of all, director comey hasn't said whose e-mails these are. for us to take any action before he clarified or before anybody reached out to huma abedin from the justice department, that would be totally premature. that's the first thing. the second thing is they claim

they have whatever this information is. so it's going to be incumbent on them to release it. lastly, huma abedin cooperated fully with the investigation that concluded this summer. people can read the 302 summaries of the interviews of her. they were all released to the public at our request. if these are e-mails from huma abedin, we don't know if they are, we assume they are redundant because she turned over her e-mails. that's why we're fstrated. >> let me ask you this. do you know -- campaigns, you know, the first rule of crisis management is know all the facts. do you know all the facts? are you 100% certain you know the e-mails, that you know everything in this? have you seen any of these e-mails? >> i'm glad you asked this question. we don't know all the facts, because the fbi has said basically nothing in this letter. we don't know whose e-mails they are talking about. we don't know how many.

according to yahoo! news, director comey doesn't know either. he hasn't seen the information. he decided to put out a letter to congress without any information whatsoever. i think that's why criticism is coming in from democratic and republican officials. >> are you confident huma abedin has been 100% forthcoming to you and secretary clinton? >> the justice department confirmed that she was totally cooperative, all of the summaries of the interviews she gave are out there in the public. she has cooperated fully. >> i understand you said that. i'm talking about you and the campaign. do you feel as if she -- you feel like you have all the facts? you, robby mook? >> i feel i have all the facts because all the facts were put out there. the summaries of the interviews the justice department said that huma fully cooperated. that's why we are so puzzled right now. just put the information out there so we can put this to rest. this campaign is supposed to be about the american people and

their lives and what the next president is going to do for them. this is clouding our ability to talk about this. >> do you believe this could cost you the election? >> i don't think so. look, as i said we had over 50,000 the volunteers out there, and record early number voting out there in california and florida. look, i would wager in nevada, turnout is so strong among democrats there, hillary could build an insurmountable lead in the coming days in nevada. we're feeling really good about this record turnout, over 200 million people in our country registered to vote, 50 million of those are young people. nose to the grind stone. people should not take anything for granted. we will have to work hard to earn this. >> robby mook, campaign manager for hillary clinton, thanks for sharing your views. appreciate you coming on. >> thanks, chuck. when we come back, much more on this e-mail story. plus our brand-new poll numbers from two states donald trump has to have.

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>>elcome bk. ishe, law, utho welcome back. panelist is here, larry kudlow, author of a new book, audie cornish, andrea mitchell. who is covering the clunton campaign and mike murray and i should let you know that two republicans here and one is on the never trump side of things, and one is a pro trump side of things, so i wanted to explain it. >> and one is on a pro tax cut side. >> pro republican senate to get tax cuts. >> andrea, let me start with you. it's unprecedented. you and i have covered this town a long time. to see james comey come under fire.

now the fbi's reputation is at stake. >> it is. this is the worst possible situation for the fbi, for the country, for hillary clinton certainly. for hillary clinton to go nuclear on comey yesterday was a deliberate decision. they're trying to rally the base. she did this in daytona. she did this going then to an historically african-american college and had a huge rally there on the football field. she's really now taking this to comey. and they made a deliberate decision to do this. if she's elected, she has to live with james comey who has a ten-year term. that is a very hostile situation and a dangerous situation. let me point out, john kerry in ireland said he has not been notified. comey did not know what these e-mails were and whether they were work-related. that is the question that is raising so many concerns. >> go ahead. >> to andrea's point, i agree with the first part. what i'm hearing from

everybody -- i have sources in the fbi and former district attorneys. the fbi is in full revolt. the fbi has been in full revolt since the decisions last summer. >> not full revolt. let's not say full revolt. >> semi-full revolt. what i'm getting at is, if comey hadn't said what he said to congress and the rest of the world, it would have leaked. it would have leaked. that whole building was ready to leak they discovered this new source with wiener and abedin. so i don't think comey had much chance here. the fbi is badly divided. >> he didn't have much choice now. the criticism is coming from the way he has handled this case from the beginning. >> i think it's interesting hearing mike pence talk a few minutes ago. essentially what he was saying is, where there's smoke -- even if there's no fire, there's a

tendency to say, with the clintons there's always smoke. he kept coming back to the idea that there always seems to be something with these people. it has given them a closing argument. a closing argument that's not the end of democracy, basically. it has given the trump campaign something to actually talk about again. if you go back to july, the things comey said in the press conference could have been cut into ads. if the campaign wasn't so busy tripping over trump's mistakes, this is what they could have focused on. >> do you think -- you are -- you have been around this town a long time. do you think comey will feel the pressure and feel as if he does need to fill in the blanks? >> he seems to be a guy to make press when he thinks he is under attack. the problem was the letter. i agree, he was boxed in. the speculation machine and everywhere else will go into hyperdrive. he will have to say something about, we're checking these e-mails for duplicates, the stuff we have. something to tamp it down a little until they know what's real. he is in a horrible possible.

>> donald trump was in new hampshire, took the stage and said, illegal, misconduct, she should be in jail. you heard the lock her up cries. he could have said, this is not an investigation. this is just finding out. he could have said, there's nothing criminal here. he could have put in, we don't know. we have seen not seen e-mails, which has been reported. >> that's a key point. >> we don't know if they are personal. he could have said these things. the fact that he wrote that letter -- now all of these senate ranking members saying, you have to be more specific. >> i don't think the letter was as artful as it could have been. >> you think? >> i would have did a little work as a former speech writer myself. having said all that, the bizarre part of this story -- it's going to be bizarre until the election. the democrats loved comey last summer. the republicans love comey right now. it's going to be a standoff. i don't think much is going to come out of this new. but i want to go back to this

point. loretta lynch and the meeting with bill clinton has damaged the justice department, whether that's fair or not. now with regards to the fbi, you have a split. comey's own assistant director, his deputy director was involved. his wife is running for the state senate in virginia. >> it's a lot -- that's a lot of innuendo. >> and it was hillary who raised the money to finance the campaign. >> you are making a lot of assumptions. >> but in the public eye, chuck, these things all come out. >> i get the perception. >> fair or not, the perception -- >> the bigger politics are what we are going to do. the campaigns live in fear of the last seven days. and if is it is a referendum on why they stink. the clinton people, i think, ticked off the great and vengeful god of campaigns. now they have this.

it's about hillary for a while. it's not a bad idea to have huma call for transparency. >> do you think that could -- do you think the clinton -- >> for last few months, we have learned any time one of them is under the spotlight, they get roughed up in the polls. they don't look good. there's never a time they're in the spotlight and people say, i think i like that person after all. >> why doesn't huma say, here are the e-mails? >> a staffer with a press conference? >> crowd source it. put it out there. >> here they are. >> she doesn't know what's on the laptop. >> how did it get to wiener? >> a moment of silence for that. he is the patron saint of bad news. >> how does hillary e-mails -- >> you don't know. >> the investigations colliding. it's like -- >> all right. i'm going to pause it here. i gotta call a time-out. move on and pay for this program a little bit. we'll be back in a moment with the obama voters who are saying no to hillary clinton and why this could have big implications for elections going forward.

are back. meor da we are back. time for data download this week. as hillary clinton attempts to recreate obama's winning electoral map, there's one state in particular where obama 2012 voters are donald trump voters in 2016. the latest polling averages in three of the midwestern swing states right now show an advantage for minnesota. but it's a different story in iowa where obama won where this year trump has kept a lead. what makes iowa different? non-college educated white voters. obama in 2012 spent time painting mitt romney as the boss who fired you and who sent that job overseas. >> that stopped with the sale of the plant. >> i know how business works. i know why jobs come and why

they go. >> bain capital was the majority owner. they are responsible. >> that was enough to keep iowa and many of the frustrated voters in the obama camp in '12. obama won the state by six points. in this cycle, donald trump is speaking to the voters in a way mitt romney never did and in a way that hillary clinton hasn't been able to. while it's true that it's not news that trump is doing well with the non-college educated white voters, it's more true in iowa than in just about any other state. that is why iowa is the first of the obama states that donald trump is most likely to flip. when we come back, the candidate who says it's never too late to do what he believes is the right thing. independent candidate evan mcmullin. symom relief thout raising your blood pressure. coridin hbp.

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oing me nows evan mcmullin, pendenndidat f presint. s on the welcome back. joining me now is evan mcmullin, independent candidate for president. he is on the ballot in 11 states. he has a chance to do something no independent candidate has done since george wallace in 1968, which is win a state which means electoral votes. he has a real shot in utah where a poll has him within one point of donald trump and a very close three-way race there. you see hillary clinton at 25%. in a close presidential election, six votes could matter. welcome to "meet the press." >> great to be with you. >> you have a shot at winning six electoral votes. you don't have a shot at winning 270. are you comfortable swinging the election, say, one way or the other between trump and clinton,

even though your voters can't elect you? >> well, i would say from the get go we knew we wouldn't be able to reach 270 votes in just a three-month presidential campaign, which clearly is an ideal. the reality is that both of the candidates are so deeply corrupt and so deeply unfit for the presidency that someone had to step in and try to block them both if the race was close. that's what our goal is. we're on the ballot in 11 states. we're registered as a write-in in a number bringing the number to 43. republicans or democrats or independents will be able to vote for us. our goal is to block them both. that's more possible if the race is close. right now, it's not close. right now hillary clinton is dominating trump in most projections of the electoral college result. >> let me ask you. if you do block them and they race closes and it's 266. nobody gets more than 266 and

your six matter and it's thrown to the house. is that what you want to see? >> that's what would happen. the top three finishers would go to the house. each state would get a vote. i'm confident we would compete quite well there. >> you want to remake the republican party. you have said this. november 8 is the election. how would you remake -- is it the republican party you want to remake or a new party? >> i would clarify that. i'm not sure i want to remake the republican party. we need a new conservative movement that rededicated itself to the cause of liberty and equality. the truth that all men and women are created equal. that's what this country needs. that's the leadership it needs. the republican party has drifted away from the cause of individual liberty and equality. so we need something new. >> what does that mean? if it's not the republican party, what is that? do you think you are too far out of step with the base? >> the point is that what we're

building, this new movement, will i think be able to play a role in reforming the republican party if that's possible. now i and my running mate, we're skeptical that can be done. if it can't be done, then conservatives will need a new political party. >> concerns with donald trump. are they rooted in what he said about muslims, hispanic americans, his role with women? are they rooted on the social side, on discrimination, or the fiscal side or both? >> my goodness. where do i start? on the fiscal side, he wants to lower taxes, but he wants to increase spending. that's a problem. this is a man who has unhealthy relationships and admiration for dictators overseas. i believe that he has some of the same ideas about leadership or domination that they do. i think he is dishonest with the american people. where are his tax returns? we don't know much about donald trump. >> okay. mr. trump is an imperfect candidate.

>> imperfect? you are kind. >> you said both candidates are corrupt. >> absolutely. >> why do you call mr. trump corrupt? you may not agree with him. he may have made ill-advised statements and so forth. but corruption? i don't see the corruption angle. >> well, i certainly do. this is a man who manipulated our system for his own personal gain. i view that as corruption. i view his unethical -- >> he hasn't broken laws. >> i haven't said he broke laws. >> that's what corrupt means. >> not necessarily. i think he is unethical. i think he is somebody who would exploit our system. he doesn't understand the constitution. i think he is somebody that doesn't respect the separation of powers. this is something who would be dangerous to our country. i think hillary clinton would be, too. >> that's a question i want to ask. what's your website? i will -- >> evanmcmullin.com. >> i think it's an awful choice. as an anti-trump american. but the practical affect -- if you carry utah and i think you might will be to give her a big advantage. are you okay with that lesser

evil winning? if that means stopping trump. >> everybody wants us to think about the election in terms of the binary choice between hillary clinton and donald trump. if we keep -- >> that's the choice we have. >> if we keep casting our votes for leaders like hillary clinton and donald trump, because we only accept those are the only two real options as many would say, then we're going to keep getting more hillary clinton and donald trump. we need to finally take a stand in this country, voters are sick and tired of the options they're being given by the two major parties. both hillary clinton and donald trump personify the crisis we're having. we're building something new. >> so for the future, make a statement, although the raw politics of it are, it probably helps -- >> if the race is close, we can block them both. if no one was doing that, we wouldn't have this chance. >> evan mcmullin -- >> has mitt romney financed you at all? >> no. we would welcome it. unfortunately, that's not the case. >> it was a pleasure to have you

on. thanks for coming out here. be safe on the campaign trail. >> thanks a lot. we will be back in 45 seconds with end game. our two big swing state polls that are out this morning. >> coming up, "meet the press" end game and post game, brought to you by boeing, building the future one century at a time.

"meet the prs"nd game is brout to you bybo, buiing th mfuture onntury "meet the press" end game is brought to you by boeing, building the future one century at a time. on earth two, our new polls might have been the lead. hillary clinton and donald trump both need florida and north carolina. but again, both of these polls were conducted before the fbi's bombshell announcement on friday. here is where things stood essentially through thursday. in florida, the race neck and neck among likely voters. 45-44. earlier this month, we had her up by three. in north carolina though, this was the big -- would have been a big story this morning pre-fbi.

north carolina, clinton up six, 47-41. north carolina is clinton's best shot at winning a state. president obama lost in 2012. what's interesting is i feel like it gives you a status of the race where we were going in. north carolina in particular, the early vote, everything, she may have already built up a flood wall. >> she's even with all this in pretty good shape. maybe it will tighten and help the down ballot republicans. the other thing people are missing is early on she created what i call the 38 latitude lock. colorado over to virginia. put them away. now trump could win florida and ohio, but he would have to pull a big state and win north carolina, even with this, it's a tough order. >> the president -- i was going to say the president will is going to north carolina on wednesday. michelle obama -- i was there with michelle obama and hillary clinton. even on a day almost overwhelmed by the bill clinton money issues coming out of that --

>> that was two october surprises ago. >> even then, it was an extraordinary day for them in north carolina. >> i was going to -- you mentioned ohio and florida. trump talked about bringing new voters in the system. in ohio counties where he did well in the primaries, there aren't new registrations. in florida, the majority of new voters are not in his demographic. >> if trump campaign runs on the e-mails for the next ten days or nine days, they are making a mistake. that's out there. their spokespeople will talk about it. my view is, mr. trump does his best when he talks about issues. he was gaining ground and the polls were narrowing before this e-mail scandal. chuck, i think they have to stay economic growth, tax cuts, a new issue that has emerged -- >> i'm smiling. because, larry will be more on message than trump.

>> obamacare, he does best on issues. he does -- >> that's not trump. >> he has to stay on message. that's all i'm saying. >> that's the circle that can't be squared. they ought to hood him like a falcon, but they can't. so he will make this worse. that's the next e-mail turn. he will say something completely crazy and make -- >> and if you look at his tax plan -- i don't want to get into this with you. but look at the committee for a responsible federal budget. particularly donald trump would just explode the budget. neither are being -- >> like jfk -- >> you know better. >> and ronald reagan. his tax cuts, particularly businesses and small business, with all due respect, will grow this economy at 4% to 5%. i will buy you a copy of my book and sign it. >> i have your book. >> you are arguing the election that might have been. if it was about issues. i give him 48 hours to stay on message?

>> i'm an issues guy. >> the big affect of all of this wiener issue would be the down ballot races. that's why they are so concerned. they can see the senate in the grasp. they could see gains in the house. a possible governing majority. >> can i just say about -- >> the argument comes to light -- >> let's think about if this does have the -- i believe -- we had an october clinton fund-raising scandal hit two weeks before the election. it went from clinton double digits to single. he wins. democrats didn't get the house or the senate. we may -- the ultimate affect of this may be an eight person supreme court for the next year. because republicans could hold the majority both now and in the lame duck and going forward. >> are we sure that wouldn't have happened anyway? i feel like in the era of 51% votes, the idea that you have some grand mandate and you will go into office and everything will be better, i don't think

the voters are buying that. they watched the last four to six years for obama and see him walk straight into a wall of gridlock with congress. there's going to be voters out there who maybe say, you know, i will stick with my down ballot choice. >> i can make the argument, democrats laugh at this, i did it on a podcast this week, that a split senate or one vote republican is almost better to get a deal done in the middle. the democratic majority, mcconnell knows they are there two years. the warren, sanders wing will box her in. nothing will get done. >> never mind a half dozen committees that want to investigate the e-mails. >> i think paul ryan is in a fraught position. this house, no matter how this house is elected, they are gunning for him on both sides. you have polarization and gridlock, no matter. >> last word. >> the american public wants congress and the president to do some stuff that will make this country better, grow faster, have better health care and kill

the terrorists. they have got to get something done. really. that's what's at the heart. >> i have to get another thing done. i have to land this plane. that's all we have for today. we will be back next week. because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." if it's this sunday, it's andrea's mitchell's birthday. happy birthday, andrea. as we go to break, we have a little surprise for you. we will see you next week. >> oh, no. >> my goodness. >> look at that. >> end game and post game, sponsored by boeing, on the "meet the press" facebook page.

goodday to you. welcome to new york and welcome to "pulse of america" where your thoughts can be heard. and moments ago hillary clinton was campaigning in florida and her campaigners are demanding more details from james comey after the the unusual disclosure friday