bush meeting with vice president al gore after that contention election. it can't be easy for the losers to come face to face with the people who beat them, especially after a bitter or close election or even a contested one. so far, both hillary clinton and donald trump have been gracious to each other in public. the question is, when or if # will they have their post-election face to face? that's all we have for tonight. "with all due respect" starts right now. >> i'm john heilemann. >> and i'm mark halperin. with all due respect to the media, the next four years best run as a marathon, not a sprint. >> what a photo op this will be. awkward. >> awkward. >> awkward. >> awkward. >> awkward feels like an understatement. >> we are watching donald trump's plane. >> there is donald trump's plane. >> there's donald trump. >> we're watching the motorcade pull into the white house. >> donald trump is in the white house. >> this meeting has been going on for a pretty lengthy amount of time. >> this meeting now going on for

close to an hour half. >> oh, to be a fly on the wall. >> to be a fly on the wall. >> wouldn't you like to be a ply on the wall. >> fly on the wall. >> even if we could interview said fly on said wall, fly wouldn't be able to talk. on the show tonight donald trump prepares to be president and the nation prepares for president trump. some of the country is still shell shocked by the surprise upset victory of republican, but today the idea of donald trump in the white house got a whole lot more real. his visit with the current occupant of 1600 pennsylvania avenue today was as stunning as it was symbolic. the president-elect sat with barack obama for a 90-minute conversation, that marked the first time these two had ever met face to face, and it comes after president obama said, of course, repeatedly that trump cannot be trusted with the nation tease nuclear codes.

afterwards with, the two political foes sat side by side for an extraordinary oval office photo op. here is that strange and historic moment. >> well, i just had the opportunity to have an excellent conversation with president-elect trump. it was wide ranging. we talked about some of the organizational issues in setting up a white house. we talked about foreign policy, we talked about domestic policy. i want to emphasize to you, mr. president-elect, that we now are going to want to do everything we can to help you succeed, because if you succeed, then the country succeeds. >> we had never met each other. i have great respect. the meeting lasted for almost an hour and a half. and it could, as far as i'm concerned, it could have gone on a lot longer. we really, we discussed a lot of different situations.

some wonderful and some difficulties. i very much look forward to dealing with the president in the future, including counsel. he, he explained some of the difficulties, some of the high-flying assets, and some of the really great things that have been achieved. so, mr. president, it was a great honor being with you, and i look forward to being with you many, many more times in the future. >> thank you. >> the first lady of the united states, michelle obama, also met with the future first lady, melania trump, and vice president-elect mike pence sitting down with vice president joe biden. late today, trump was heading back to new york city. so, john, extraordinary moment. i'm wondering what you think of the obama/trump relationship right now? >> well, the first thing i have to say is, oh, to be a fly on the wall at that meeting. >> or to interview the fly. >> yes. >> that's a good get, the fly.

>> i thought, obviously, that was the strangest thing. we were down there in washington today. it's just one of many strange things that have happened and surreal to watch. knowing the history of the two of them. knowing how much, you know, all the things that president obama has said about donald trump, all the things donald trump has said about barack obama. but i am consistently impressed over the course of eight years to the extent to which barack obama is committed to preserving democratic norms in this country. his handling of this meeting, and we can talk about trump's handling of it too, but the president for a moment, a real testament to how much he cares and takes seriously the motion that the transfer of power should not just be peaceful, but should be smooth and i think he genuinely means it. a lot of things about donald trump he doesn't like, but he's now the president-elect and he feels that everyone should be rooting for donald trump's success. >> hats off to president obama today.

his statement yesterday was in the same spirit. it's a requirement to the office, but he handled it in a way that was extraordinarily dignified and unifying. >> donald trump as candidate said, as president i'm not going to do all of this stuff that's a little bit out there. it's a different thing. as president, i'm not going to tweet in a crazy way, i'm not going to lash out. you wouldn't recognize donald trump if you covered the campaign, the way he behaved today. >> yep. >> and for those who are hoping that he's a different guy in the office, you know, it's one data point. but he was low key, dignified. you know, he praised the president's record. said he was going to ask the president for advice. >> yeah. >> and in a campaign that has been extraordinarily abnormal throughout, this -- what they said, how they acted, was like every other meeting like this we've seen in our careers over the television era, as a transition begins. >> yeah. and look, you know, it is ---iois -- ioyou know, it's the case, i think that's one of the things that happens when you become president, we hear about this in

a particular context, in the context when you start getting the real security briefing, and how that changes you -- >> like that. you're a different person. you're in the club. >> right, suddenly, you're like, i said a lot of stuff on the campaign trail, but now i know what's actually going on. what the real threats are. what our agents in the field are confronting. and that changes you. i think, you know, going and sitting in that chair is another thing that changes you. not to the core of who you are, because donald trump is still donald trump, just as barack obama is still barack obama. but that is a moment where, okay, the weight and gravity of what's happened comes and hits you full force. >> if you just saw that photo op and didn't see the campaign, you would say, looks good. >> and it's not that different from jeb bush -- if jeb bush were now the president-elect, the same kind of meeting would have taken place. after trump left the white house, he spent some time with two republicans, despite their complicated relationships with trump over the past months, will be vitally important to setting

and executing a legislative agenda next year. first on trump's speaker was house speaker paul ryan. >> i think we're going to do some absolutely spectacular things for the american people. we can't get started fast enough. >> after that meeting, ryan gave his visitors a tour of the capital, including the balcony on which donald trump will be sworn in, in january. and after a meeting later with senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, trumpriefly told reporters, quote, we're going to work very strongly on immigration, health care, and we're looking at jobs, big league, jobs. mark, apart from the fact that he did not say big league and said bigly, apart from that, what did you make in terms of the optics, and otherwise, the meetings on capitol hill. >> the optics and the way the hill leaders are bending to the reality of the president is a first among equal, co-equal

branch, i think bodes well for breaking gridlock. it bodes well for preparing some of the relationships between particularly ryan and donald trump. a big question for me, talking about tax reform, infrastructure, and immigration, will they -- will this be a populist party or an establishment party? because the agendas of the populist president-elect and the establishmentarian congressional leaders and the donor class to the republican party, it will be fascinating to see -- wildly differently. and fascinating to see. i hate to use the phrase, when the rubber meets the road. but when they actually have to start writing legislation, it's going to be fascinating to see. but so far, the relationship with the president, the relationship with the hill stuff looks good. >> think about these two agenda items. you think about health care. on the basis of what we know about donald trump, he's a lot more liberal on health care than paul ryan or mitch mcconnell. so if you agree about repealing the affordable care act, but there's got to be a replacement for it,hey're not going to

strip health insurance from millions of people. donald trump at one point was a backer of single payer. where do they meet on that question? immigration, another question, obviously, key. trump has -- in one of the places where he has the most clearly enunciated set of policies, but they are not the policies that paul ryan would implement, if he had his own way. so where are they going to end up? those questions always -- >> just take health care, one seventh of the american economy. president-elect trump started his stump speech by saying, we're getting rid of affordable care act. and they wanted stability. i don't know. there's a lot to figure out. all right. even as president obama calls for national unity and overseas a peaceful transition of power to donald trump, there are thousands of dejected and outraged americans who are now protesting out in the streets the new president. last night, there were massive demonstrations that erupted on the streets of at least ten

american cities, including oakland, chicago, l.a., and boston, as protesters shut down highways, burned the president-elect in effigy, and chanted anti-trump slogans. here in gotham city, thousands marched to trump tower to show their discontent with the nation's decisions. those demonstrations picked up again today in san francisco where in the country. >> what are you hoping to come out of this rally? >> solidarity. with others. >> show everyone that in a democracy, we get our pick counts too. >> i'm hoping with social media and everything we have at our fingertips these day will make the world see that this is not our president. >> i'm hoping people see this and see that people are upset about his policies and will get up and join us. >> yesterday, devastated, angry, upset. today, we're coming together in an expression of rage.

>> i hope that he get impeached, to be honest. >> we want people to argue, to pay attention to local elections, and to do everything they can in the next four years to stop the harm that's going to happen. >> i don't know what else to do, except for make my voice heard and get the voice out and make sure people know that this is not what we want. >> today, with the democratic party facing a lot of problems, bloomberg politics is reporting that howard dean is now considering a run to get back his former job as democratic party chairman. john, is this kind of a falling action from a party that just suffered a surprising loss or are we going to see protests continue and the dnc chair position as an initial proxy fight to try to find a new direction? >> i think clearly, the rtprotes of this kind will not go on indefinitely. they'll happen for a period of

time, and as long as they're peaceful, we don't want to see anyone get hurt. people should be allowed to march and express their discontent with what happened. i think in a funny way, these protests portend more for the democratic party than they do for the republican party, because there is going to be a large core of the democratic base that is not going to want to see an accommodationist democratic party. not going to want to see democrats making deals with donald trump. they're going to want to see donald trump be a party of resistance. and for people who are elected democrats and others in the party, they're going to have to contend with this, i think, not for another couple of weeks, they're going to have to contend with this for the at least the first year. >> there's this issue of what to do about how to control donald trump's agenda. there's also this issue of trying to rebuild the democratic party. as we've discussed, they've lost the white house, but they've been decimated in congress, the state legislatures. when howard dean was chair, he was to the left. he called himself the democratic wing of the democratic party. he's now to the right of elizabeth warren and bernie sanders. so as the democratic party chair, i'll say one more thing.

arguably, if the right chair, if it's someone like a haley barbour or a ron bratt, it could be the most prominent spokesperson the party has. the fight for that job is a big deal. >> it is. when we come back, we'll talk to white house press secretary josh earnest about trump's visit to the oval office, right after this. when you find something worth waiting for, we'll help you invest to protect it for the future. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase, so you can.

welcome back. all eyes are on washington, d.c., today, as team trump begins its transition to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. and joining us now from the north lawn at that very address, we have white house press secretary, josh earnest. josh, great to see you. sorry we couldn't stop by and say hi when we were down there today. >> i'm sorry, missed you. >> you are, actually, the closest thing to a fly on the wall. give us your readout of -- i know you've done this for others, but give us your readout of the meeting. >> listen, the president described it as a positive, productive meeting. and the reason is that he heard

from the president-elect in private what, what you guys all heard from the president-elect in public. is that he struck a constructive stone and a tone that demonstrated his commitment to actually pursuing a constructive, effective, peaceful transition of power. this administration has actually been preparing for months for this transition of power. president obama's committed to making sure that the next president can hit the ground running. i don't think he expected that he would be working with the president-elect trump's team, but that's who he's working, and we're working to ensure that transition is effective, in spite of the two differences between the two men. >> you said something that surprised me. you were asked about president obama's comments in the campaign about donald trump being unqualified. and rather than saying what i would expect you so to say, the campaign's over, we're moving forward, you said, yeah, basically, you said, he still thinks that. >> well, i don't want to leave -- mostly, because i don't want people to be left with the impression that somehow that was just empty rhetoric and that was a slogan and the president didn't really believe it.

ft. was making a forceful case based on his actual views, during the campaign, in support of secretary clinton, who was his preferred candidate. it didn't work out. and elections have consequences. you know, i know that shortly after he took office, president obama was quoted rather deris e derisively by a bunch of republicans saying, i can't believe how arrogant and pompous he was to say that election have consequences. well, elections do have consequences. and the president's committed to ensuring a peaceful transition. that doesn't mean he agrees with donald trump. it doesn't mean that all the concerns he raised no longer apply. of course they do. but the time for the argument has passed. the american people have decided. and elections have consequences. >> so, josh, i'm going to ask you a question here just to kind of answer this as best you can, in a human way. the kind of like, that grows out of mark's question. we've had a lot of -- you get a lot of criticism in presidential campaigns, but what president obama said about donald trump

repeatedly, was that he was just unsuited to be president of the united states. unfit to be given the nuclear closed, right? and now he's sitting across from him, effectively saying, i'm going to have to hand you the nuclear codes. so how does, in his mind, how does president obama resolve that conundrum and feel okay with it. i understand he's committed to the peaceful transition of power. i get that he respects democratic norms. but what's he thinking in that moment? >> reporter: he's thinking that he has a responsibility, that every president does, which is to put aside his own personal deeply held political views and put the interest of the country and our democracy first. the good news is, he's not the first president who's been in this situation and has had to do that. in fact, the at last two presidents have had to do that. president clinton, after serving for eight years, had to hand the keys to the oval office to then president-elect george w. bush, who had basically run around the countrpromising to restore honor and integrity to the oval

office. not-so-implicit of president clinton. yet, president clinton tried to fulfill his constitutional responsibilities. president george w. bush did the same for president-elect obama. president-elect obama on the campaign trail was harshly critical of the previous administration. but president bush did not allow his personal pique or his disagreements with then the president-elect obama to affect his ability to preside over a very successful, effective transition. president obama's committed to doing the same thing. and yes, that does require him to set aside his own personal views. but when it comes to the functioning of our democracy, even the president of the united states has to set aside his own personal views to ensure the success of our country. >> josh, in just a few weeks, you'll be signing a giant network tv political analyst contract, i assume. so let's audition right now. why did hillary clinton lose? >> well, here's the -- i think it's going to take a while to figure that out, precisely. >> let's take your first blush at it.

because when you're a political analyst for a cable network, you don't have time to punt. >> yeah, this is very effective training, so i appreciate the opportunity to practice. >> josh earnest, quickly, quickly! >> there are a couple of confounding variables that i think are worthy of consideration. the first is, secretary clinton won the popular vote. it's important not to overlook that view. it's easy to say, well, she got beat very badly. she lost the electoral vote. i'm not calling into question the results of the election, but we would be remiss not to acknowledge that she got more votes than the other guy. >> sounds like you're from the lewandowski school instead of the axelrod job. >> i'm not in my new job yet. one job at a time and one president at a time. there are millions of people across the country who voted for barack obama in 2008 and voted r barack obama in 2012 and voted for donald trump -- >> why didn't they vote for hillary clinton? >> i don't know. i don't know what the answer is. when you consider how popular

barack obama is, all across the country, not just with his longtime supporters, but with republicans and independents, as well, comparatively, given the polarized nature of our country. there's a lot of questions to answer. there clearly are people across the country who are fed up with dysfunction in washington, d.c. and as much as i believe that that dysfunction should be laid at the feet of republicans in congress who refuse to do anything with barack obama, even when he was trying to promote ideas that they had originated, clearly, there are a lot of people across the country who laid that dysfunction at the feet of democrats, too, including the democratic president. >> josh -- sorry, didn't mean to cut you off. >> no. i think that's part -- that's part of the answer, too, what do we do to more effectively communicate with those voters, who i think unfairly, held democrats in washington, including barack obama, responsible for some of that dysfuncti

dysfunction. i think it makes a persuasive argument for those who voted for barack obama twice. >> josh, that was pretty good, when it comes to cable analysis. >> i've got some work to do. >> you're going to need a little bit pithier if you're going to make it on some of these networks. >> josh earnest, pleasure to see you. we'll see you down there again real soon. thanks for coming on the show. up next, we'll take a quick editorial drive down the road to the capitol building, where donald trump met with leaders on the hill today. we'll be right back with that. t anything. even mer-mutts. (1940s aqua music) (burke) and we covered it, february third, twenty-sixteen. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ sorry ma'am. no burning here.

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as we said earlier, donald trump went up to capitol hill after his meeting at the white house. joining us now to talk about trump and the hill, nbc news' kelly o'donnell, who covers all of this. kelly, just tell us about the sights and sounds of what happened and what was happening behind the scenes, as far as you know. >> well, it was really striking, because i think donald trump has not a lot of experience with dealing with the sort of inner offices of capitol hill. i was here, back during the campaign season, when he was part of a big anti-iran deal, protest, and he got to go inside the capitol, but today felt so different on so many levels. he carried himself in a way that seemed by just my visual observation, a bit more restrained, a bit more sort of lower volume trump. aware to have the enormity of what he's involved in. he met, off-campus, near the capitol, in a place where house republicans tend to get together.

first with speaker ryan and vice president-elect mike pence. and that was a chance to have lunch, continue a conversation that's been happening by telephone. then it was paul ryan inviting donald trump and melania trump to see the view they will have on inauguration day, from the speaker's balcony. that's a pretty spectacular view, by any standards in washington. and that's a rare place to go. and without donald trump having any political experience, a place i'm sure he had never been before. so that was a bit more of the tourism side. and then he also had a meeting with senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell. and as he was walking out of that, i said, mr. trump, are you ready to be president? and he said, we're ready, and he gave me the double thumbs up, reminiscent of the campaign trail. and then he was also asked top priorities and he mentioned immigration and jobs. and he spoke just for a couple of minutes. it was sort of the cacophony of a media day, with the shutters going off, bouncing off the marble here in the capitol, so

hard to hear. then majority leader mcconnell escorted trump out and came back and spoke to us for a moment, that's a rarity, too, saying it's a first class meeting and they are eager to get going on the transition, on areas where they agree. so for a ryan and a mcconnell, it's about trying to plan with a new republican partner, and they have a whole lot more experience than he does. >> kelly, was there any discordant note? reading between the lines, you would say, maybe there's some trouble here? >> not today. i think today was really about trying to project confidence and trying to be gracious. but in washington, it won't take long for any of the disagreements or the trouble spots to filter out. but today seemed really on a kind of grand tour sort of scale. >> okay. kelly o'donnell, nbc news. we're going to talk to a democratic pollster about what happened on election night. you're going to want to see this, back in a moment. ugh. heartburn.

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there is an anti-trump

protest now underway in the streets of philadelphia. you can see that right here on your screens. it's been less than 48 hours since hillary clinton's surprising electoral defeat that caused protests like this. and besides her concession speech yesterday, we have heard very, very little from the democratic strategists involved in this race about what happened and how things went so very, very wrong. our next guest may be able to answer some of those questions. jeffrey, with one "f," pollack, a democratic pollster and founder of the firm, democratic strategy group who worked with the pro-clinton super pac, priorities usa this cycle. jeff, you agree. like, polling has missed everything in a comprehensive way, right? >> yeah, there's no question on the presidential level, at least, that we missed a lot. >> so let's start unpacking that. at first blush, why? >> well, i'm not sure i know the answer why. let's -- and frankly, i think there's a lot of people already speculating as to why and my suspicion is that they are rushing to judgment. some of the colleagues in the polling industry are already

sort of almost making excuses. well, it's all within the margin of error. anybody who says that, i think, is fully kidding themselves. what we know is that in states, particularly where there was a high number of non-college white voters, the error in terms of protecting for trump or hillary, matchup higher. so clearly, we have missed something on the polling side in terms of looking at that kind of data. and i think we've got to figure out what it is, why is it? are they not talking to us? not interested in doing surveys? are they a group of voters that's so dissatisfied with the system, that, in fact, even the phone call is a part of the system? >> obviously, being wrong means that hillary clinton was shocked and disappointed more than she would have. but presumably, if the data was wrong on election day, it was wrong a month ago, right? so we go back a month ago, if they had a better model, they would say, we're in more trouble in pennsylvania and wisconsin and michigan than we thought, right? that's the real implication of

it being wrong, right? >> it's possible, mark. the one thing, obviously, the electorate does change over time. who's interested and who's coming in and out of the electorate, who's going to vote. what we do know, when you look at yesterday, is hillary clinton will have gotten a couple of million votes, maybe 2.5 million votes, fewer than barack obama, so again, we're having a lower turnout. well, our models, all of our polling is predicated on looking at the past. and past behavior being repetitive, particular in potential elections, which it normally is. if it's off, we have a very hard time figuring out turnout. >> so just to break down, you're saying, part of the underperformance that was not picked up in the polls was with white working class voters, right? >> seems to be. >> are there other groups, as you've looked at the data, are there other groups that have seem to have been -- where hillary clinton seems to be better in the polling, but worst on election day? >> the largest correlation seems to be that. here's the truth, i'm not even sure about the exit polls. we're reporting on some of the exit polls as if they're

religion, but i'm not sure, the hispanic number that many of us are repeating. i'm not sure the reality is going to be that donald trump did better with hispanics than obama. i'm highly skeptical -- >> than romney. >> than romney. >> let me go to a particular group that's been bugging me for the last few days. white, college-educated voters. we've seen polling all year long that said that hillary clinton was going to be the first democrat ever to win white-educated voters. she was way ahead with white college-educated women and ahead with white college-educated men. on the day, at least according to the exit polls, she won white college-educated women by a much narrower margin and lost white educated men, so what explains that? >> their multiple scenarios. part of it, is it possible that there's a sort of shy trump voter scenario that we've talked about? i think it's possible. i'm still not there yet. and again, i think we've got a lot of digging to do. the great part about data these days is, take six months from now, when the voter files are updated, we'll be able to look

back at people who said they were going to vote for hillary clinton. and look at those white college-educated voters and really see in these precincts what happened. the other thing is, i think we made broad assumptions. what's a white college-educated voter? let's be clear pap white college-educated voter in montgomery county, isn't the same as a white college educated voter in des moines. and to kind of blanket say that they are is kind of silly. so to some extent, i think we have to look. hillary clinton won orange county, california, i believe the first democrat to do that. you know, that's that kind of white college educated voter in one place, as opposed to des moines or any of the other places in the midwest, even pittsburgh. >> i agree with you. one of the biggest problems in american journalists and politics is treating the exit poll like it's a tabloid. if hillary clinton called you up and said, jeff, i need to figure out what happened, what kind of autopsy could you do on their data and on the public data to figure out what happened? >> i'm sure they did the best

that they could do with the data that they had. what i would i want to do is say, wait, take a pause, look at this stuff in a couple of months and let's really look deep, deep, deep. the modeling stuff that was done, some of it was very good. we looked at early voters versus how they were modeled, and a lot of that stuff may have been very right. did we sort of miss something in it? and again, that's very hard. >> can you go back and look at their model and their data and say, whoa, whoa, given what we know happened, this was a mistake. this assumption -- >> we all are going to be able to do that. which we couldn't used to, mark. the exit poll was the only way we could do it. now we have a tremendous amount more data to go back and make the call in a more real way. let me give you one data point. the exit poll right now, and i think there's a lot of good to the exit poll. i won't go as far as you did, but the exit poll right now predicts that 52% of the electorate nationwide was female. which is the traditional number. i would not be surprised a year from now, when we look back at

the stroert files if it's not 51 and if it's -- if it's 51, meaning. the smaller number of females in the electorate, the more like that mitt romney -- mitt romney? donald trump would win. that's the kind of stuff i think we could look at. >> all of these things are totally fascinating and i'm fascinated by them. but here's another question that's a dumb-dumb question someone would ask. in 2012, one of the most impressive things about the obama operation was their degree to which a few days before the election day they sat down privately before people and said, here's how we're going to perform in the battleground states. and in almost every state, they were correct. data's tough and complicated then, it's tough and complicated now. how could they be so on the money and have this operation, these people, the clinton campaign, be so far off, when a lot of them are the same people. >> again, i don't know, because i'm not in the campaign. they're going to talk a lot, i'm sure, about what they saw. that is a place where error does make a difference.

where 1 or2% difference, there's a great article today about what a 2% difference could mean. i think error has something to do with it. i also think that things do break at the end of the day. we're going to find that multiple things came into play, but a shift in sort of who independents were voting for and who they were passionate about, that seems to be a very overwhelming thing in some of the numbers i've seen. >> jefrey pollack, with one "f," a very interesting conversation. tavis smiley joins us right after this quick break. now that fedex has helped us simplify our e-commerce, we could focus on bigger issues,

like our passive aggressive environment. we're not passive aggressive. hey, hey, hey, there are no bad suggestions here... no matter how lame they are. well said, ann. i've always admired how you just say what's in your head, without thinking. very brave. good point ted. you're living proof that looks aren't everything. thank you. welcome. so, fedex helped simplify our e-commerce business and this is not a passive aggressive environment. i just wanted to say, you guys are doing a great job. what's that supposed to mean? fedex. helping small business simplify e-commerce. sorry ma'am. no burning here. try new alka-seltzer heartburn relief gummies. they don't taste chalky and work fast. mmmm. incredible. can i try? she doesn't have heartburn. new alka-seltzer heartburn relief gummies. enjoy the relief. ♪ ♪ see ya next year.

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updating from earlier, we told you about a scoop from our colleague concerns howard dean, who is leaning towards a bid for dnc chairman. well, dean just tweeted on the topic, he says, quote, the dems need organization and focus on the young, need a 50-state strategy and tech rehab. i am in for chairman again. joining us now from los angeles to talk more about the aftermath of tuesday's stunning election, the host of pbs's "the tavis smiley show," the economist, tavis smiley. taste, how do you think howard dean as dnc chair. do you want to endorse him for that, right here, right now? >> i don't endorse people, but he can't do much worse. i like howard dean. he's a great guy. democrats do need help. and one thing i respect about howard dean, is he has said consistently to his credit that democrats need a 50-state strategy. and clearly what we're seeing this time around is whatever strategy they thought they had for all 50 states didn't quite

work. if he engages or advances this notion of his 50-state strategy, i don't think democrats can do much worse than they did this time around. >> tavis, you're a democrat, right? >> i've never said that publicly, but i certainly did not vote for donald trump. >> so you made the point that the democratic party did pretty poorly. what do you think democrats have to do now, in the face of fully a washington that's dominated not just by donald trump at the white house, but by senate majorities -- the senate majority of republicans, house majority, full washington controlled by republicans right now? >> number one, democrats need to accept the fact that donald trump is our president. these protests, i'm heartened by. but on tuesday, racism and sexism and classism and militaryism won as surely as donald trump did. so i'm heartened by these protests in the street for people who don't want to the accept that narrative. number two, democrats have got to accept the fact they've got to stop trying to triangulate and being so centrist. they've got to accept the fact,

if they can move a little to the left, as i think we're seeing in this campaign, by moving a little to the left, john, they can pick up the kind of energy, the kind of enthusiasm and excitement that might have made this difference of this time around. and for my white liberal friends, let me just say this. i went to a restaurant today, to grab a bite. i saw a woman just in tears. i can't begin to tell you the number of phone calls i've received over the last 48 hours from my white liberal friends, who feel this is a catastrophe. let me just say respectively, that black folk deal with disaster every day, we deal with catastrophe every day. and some of my white liberal friends are so used to winning, that you lose one election and you feel like the world is closing in on you. i'm upset, too, let me be clear, but misery must never have the last word, number one. and for my white liberal friends who are asking me how to explain this to our kids, that's not a

real problem. a real problem is why there's no food in the refrigerator or why you can't pay the rent, why you're being evicted. we've got to contextualize this in the right way. >> tavis, why did hillary clinton lose? >> there are as many answers to that question as there are people in this country. i believe that the democrats ran an elitist candidate in a populist election. i think that in part explains it, number one. number two, you can't take voters for granted. and number three, i think that they relied on this sort of hail mary from barack obama to suggest to black people that if they didn't vote for hillary in the waning days that he would take this as a personal insult. well, i was insulted by the president making that suggestion. as if black vote don't have agency to vote they want to vote, even though many of us voted for hillary clinton. but i can't also imagine how these 53% of the white women who voted for donald trump, never mind his misogyny, never mind his patriarchy. can you imagine, mark or john,

that white women at that level would ever even consider voting for a black man, barack obama or anybody else, who had talked about grabbing them down there, and tugging them down, after eating some tic tacs? there's no way that 53% of white women would ever consider voting for a black man. here again, racism, sexism, and elitism on display once again. >> so tavis, you have had a prescription for the democratic party that you just offered. you said that the other important piece is to accept, acknowledge, that donald trump is going to be the president, right? so in terms of trying to contain what democrats see as a potential damage from a trump presidency, what's the strategy there? how do you go about dealing with donald trump in the oval office? >> the short answer is the democrats have to get back to representing its bay. the democratic party in so many ways has abandoned its base of working class, democratic people. when you take care of those people, john, they will take

care of you. the bottom line is clear, that hillary's base hasn't showed up the way they thought it would. and if you take care of people, they will take care of you. the politics, i suspect, will take care of themselves. i'm not in a position to offer democrats in congress a way to deal with this. i will say this, there's some fights that ain't worth fighting, even if you win, but there are other fights you have to fight, even if you lose. so democrats will have to stand on their principle. i was reminded by my friend, tom friedman, just a day or so ago, that you can actually dance -- i love this from friedman, you can dance in a hurricane if you stand in the eye. what's the point? you have to stand in your truth. and even with a hurricane swirling around you, if you stand in your truth, you can make some progress. >> tavis, you said that you're glad to see the protests. would you like to see those continue throughout the trump administration? >> i think donald trump's got to be held accountable. it's fascinating for me that some of my friends who didn't

want me to hold obama accountable eight years are now bum-rushing for me to hold donald trump accountable. i'm going to do that, like i did for barack obama respectively. at the end of the day, he's got to be held accountable. you can't run a campaign with the kind of sexist, racist, classist language that donald trump used and then overnight, just magically say, and now we must unite. now we must all come together. there's no apology, mark. there's no atonement, but now we're just supposed to magically sing kumbaya, hold hands, and all is well. i don't believe that. i accept his presidency. i look forward to him, i hope, being a better president than i'm believing that he can be. but he must be held accountable, all the way through. by democrats and by all the rest of our fellow citizens. >> tavis smiley, thank you very much. thanks for joining us. next, two of the best explain it to us. dan balz and andrea mitchell, right after this. and if you're watching us in washington, d.c., you can now listen to us on the radio, radio

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we are joined now by two of the greats, chief correspondent for "the washington post," our friend, dan balz, who comes to us from "the post" newsroom in washington, d.c., and nbc correspondent and msnbc anchor, the amazing, spectacular, world-historical andrea mitchell. >> such hype. >> yes, we're hyping -- >> underhyped. >> you're also wear, matching outfits. so you're like a rhapsody in blue up here on the wall. thank you for being here. andrea, tell me what, having covered washington and a lot of transitions of power, with all your wisdom, what did you see today with mr. trump's first day, really, in washington, d.c.? >> well, i saw something that, obviously, encouraged the markets. it encouraged me as a citizen. the fact that president obama was as gracious and forthcoming as he clearly was in wanting a longer meeting, a more substantiative meeting, that donald trump responded in kind.

i was an according live when that tape was played back from the oval office. and it was extraordinary. it was a lesson in democracy. it was donald trump saying that it could have gone longer, and i hope i have your city council, and i am honored. and, honored to be with you. and president obama saying they discussed force and domestic issues. i don't doubt that president obama took the opportunity to give donald trump a personal presidential daily briefing, the likes of which he has not had. he had two intelligence briefings, but of the bare bones sort, and not what he now gets as the president-elect. and just as i was thinking earlier, just as harry truman did not know until he actually was president that there was an atomic bomb, there's a lot that donald trump is probably learning in the last 48 hours about covert operations and other foreign engagements that we can only imagine. and other burdens that any president of the united states has every day, when he receives that briefing from the intelligence communities.

>> dan, there's a million stories now that all of us are trying to figure out. i'm wondering, not what you know, but what are you wondering about now, about the next couple of weeks up through january 20th. >> well, i think all of you are wondering, and that is, who's going to surround donald trump once he goes into the white house? first of all, what's that white house staff going to be like, what kind of a mix is it? is it republican insiders? is it some outsiders? what kind of flavor does that give to the trump presidency? i'm curious about the relationships that he's going to develop on capitol hill. i mean, what we are seeing in these days immediately after the election are some predictable and obviously, encouraging to a lot of people, exchanges of pleasantries and commitments to try to make this transition as smooth as possible. but we know that this is a deeply divided country. we see that from the protests in the streets and we saw that throughout the campaign with the trump constituency. and so there is a lot of

bubbling beneath the surface that these first few meetings don't even begin to get at. and i think that's the question that i'm most interested in in the next few weeks, how that begins to sort itself out. >> andrea, you covered the clinton campaign really carefully over the last year and a half. hillary clinton gave her speech yesterday, but there's been, more or less, other than that, silence, from her people, from her, from her friends. what is going on in that world right now, beyond grief? >> a lot of grief, a lot of tears. at that concession speech, the eyes were not only filled with tears, but they were rimmed in red. people had been weeping all night. because they were so confident, they were absolutely sure they were going to win. and, you know, everyone got it wrong, we got it wrong, every pollster got it wrong, the conventional wisdom, other than you guys and mark saying on "morning joe" and your on your

own program that he had a path and laying it out as virtually no one else did. so kudos to you, but the headline writers, we saw how "the new york times" and other newspapers had made their headlines of madame secretary and had not even figured out the alternative headlines that they were going to post. i think they're trying to figure out the rest of their lives. the nation has taken a very different turn than what most people expected. for these people, it was personal. many of them had been with hillary clinton for 30 years. throughout all of her public policy. huma edinuma abed, who is obvio involved in that firestorm at the end, and earlier, as well, had been a college intern when she first took her job with hillary clinton as first lady. and the kids, the ones whom i really feel for, is the press wranglers and the ones who flew around on the planes with us, who had such stars in their eyes

and such aspirations and really were in it for reasons of idealism and hope and change. the change that they wanted. so i really feel for them. some -- a woman -- a woman posted an extraordinary picture on facebook, of walking in the woods near chappaqua, near white plains, and running into hillary and bill clinton with their dogs and posing for a picture. and there was hillary clinton, you know, in leggings and walking shoes and no makeup, with the dog, smiling broadly. she's extraordinarily strong. and i thought that concession speech was really, really profoundly moving. >> okay. i wish we had more time to talk to both of you, but we're out of time. dan balz of "the washington post" and andrea mitchell of nbc, we'll be right back.

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have another incredible story about how trump's data teams made its election day predictions. you can read that story right now on bloombergpolitics.com. john and i will be back here tomorrow, same bad time, same bad channel. sayonara. >> "hardball with chris matthews" is next. face to face, let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. over the last 36 hours, president barack obama has clearly displayed his ability to put aside his animosity to president-elect donald trump. he's showcasing to the country and to the world that a core peace of democracy is a peaceful transfer of power. president obama joined with his successor for a photo op in the oval office. a white house spokesman told nbc news the president ste