legendary singer/songwriter leonard cohen. yet today we celebrate the release of the new quest album. one word, hallelujah. from me and mark here on this friday, thank god it's the weekend and sayonara. "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. will the real donald trump please stand up? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. well, there have been two big competing messages coming from the president-elect, donald trump. the first is a message of unity and reconciliation. the second message came in a late-night tweet, of course. the next president criticized those thousands of protesters taking to the streets in opposition to his election, and the media, of course, which he accused of inciting those

protests. trump wrote, just had a very open and successful presidential election. now professional protesters incited by the annoyed are protesting. very unfair. well, a few hours later, trump seemed to do a complete 180. he tweeted, "love the fact that the small groups of protesters last night have passion for our great country. we will all come together and be proud." why is trump still tweeting about his critics and suggesting the media is out to get him? is he like the boxer who continues punching his opponent after the bell rings? well, the election is over, mr. trump. and you won. in a sign of stability for many republicans, vice president-elect mike pence was named by trump the chair of the transition team. other names on the team include three trump children, donald jr., eric, and ivanka, and his son-in-law, as well as jared kushner. meanwhile, in an interview with "the wall street journal," president-elect trump offered a positive tone. "i want a country that loves each other. i want to stress that." that's his words. according to the journal, asked

whether he thought his rhetoric had gone too far in the campaign, the president-elect responded, "no, i won." mr. trump suggested that he would now turn more positive, saying that was true of his victory speech early wednesday morning, as well as his comments with mr. obama at the white house thursday. it's different now, he said. well, joining me right now is hugh hewitt, the host of "the hugh hewitt show," author, ron reagan, and yamich alcindor. so i thought his comments brought the market under control, it stabilized the international markets, a responsible thing to do. i thought his meeting with the president was fine and even respectful, talking about the president's accomplishments in a positive way, never heard that before. then i thought the tweeting was crazy, and i wonder, what's running the mind of donald trump. mr. hewitt, we've been through a lot of this together now.

we are war verterans. we've been in the bunker. let's see if we can figure out, is donald trump a little loony? has donald trump got a dr. jekyll and mr. hyde thing going on, when he uses mr. hyde when he wants to -- which one's the good guy? the bad guy? he uses both the good guy and the bad guy. which one is he? >> i think he's the good guy. >> jekyll's the good guy, hyde's the bad guy. >> the good guy is hyde. we've had the past 72 hours that the republicans and conservatives had since the financial panic in the fall of 2008. and the outing of vice president-elect pence in charge of the transition, more good news. the meetings yesterday with mitch mcconnell and paul ryan, great news. the fact that the supreme court is saved, terrific news. and i think donald trump is going to find being president as much fun as dave ron's father. and hopefully, as gracious as he was in the oval office and as winsome towards his critics as

his father was, i haven't been feeling this good in years, chris. because i think the opportunity to undo some of the damage of the last eight years, legislatively, is in front of us. to rebuild the military, which is an urgent need, and donald trump has promised and to put, you know, originalists on the court. it's not just one supreme court vacancy. there are 99 other federal judges and harry reid broke the filibuster, so it's all majority rule. >> okay. except for the filibuster rule still applies to supreme court justices. so the democrats -- >> nope, nope. >> -- can still filibuster at the supreme court level. >> no. >> you can say that, but it's not true. >> -- we broke it. >> that's an argument, not a fact. let me go to ron reagan here. ron, do you see two trumps or just one? take your time. >> well, the two tweets that you mentioned, the first of which was almost certainly written by donald trump, the second which may or may not have been, are

exemplary of the drama that is about to play out both in public, because of course donald trump is the president of the united states, but also just as importantly within donald trump himself. the question we're going to have answered here shortly is whether donald trump will remain the sort of figure he was during the campaign, thin-skinned, unable to contain himself, incoherent, frequently, or whether donald trump can become the kind of man he needs to be to be the president of united states. now, hugh used to work for my father in his administration. and he's aware of my father. he's familiar with my father. he doesn't know him as well as i do, of course. but since he brought my father up, i have to say, as a point of personal privilege, perhaps, that i find myself in a state of cognizant dissonance here when i watch donald trump about to take the oval office. i remember sitting in the oval office with my father. though we disagreed about politics frequently, i was always impressed by his enormous

dignity. yes, he had fun, sometimes. being president of the united states. but he saw it as a gigantic responsibility. one that required preparation, deep thought, long thought about issues and hugh will back me up that ronald reagan, despite his critics saying that he was shallow and all of that, had all of those other qualities. he thought long and hard about issues. so now i think about donald trump sitting in that chair. and i think about the dignity that my father had. and i -- the only way i can think of to explain this to you in this cognizant dissonance that i feel right now is asking you, all of you, if you can imagine in your wildest dreams ever hearing an audiotape of my father bragging about his fame and how his allit allows him to molest women at will. i think we all know the answer to that. the presidency demands enormous dignity. and we are shortly going to find out whether it has the power to

compel dignity. >> do you want to respond to that, hugh? >> yeah, i think ron is very right. his father was one of the most thoughtful and underrated thinkers of our past century. and i hope, for example, donald trump studies his presidency and says, how did ronald reagan start? he started with jim baker, ed niche and mike dever. so instead of trying to arrange the white house into one person, if you put reince priebus as chief of staff and steve bannon in there and kellyanne conway, you'll get a shadow of what ronald reagan did. so he could retreat to the oval office and think everything ron said is absolutely true. >> yeah, i think from the outside, i knew that about your father, about president reagan. he would -- well, he had tremendous -- we have to do this another night. he had tremendous understanding of the constitution. he understand the role of the opposition. he understood the role of the other people elected by the people. and he put it all together. that was his salute to the constitution, recognizing how it all worked together.

anyway, one of the most consistent themes of donald trump's campaign was to call to repeal and replace obamacare. let's watch this one. >> my poll numbers are going through the roof. you know why? i really believe a big part of it is obamacare. because we're going to repeal it and replace it. >> obamacare has to be replaced. and we will do it and we will do it very, very quickly. it is a catastrophe. if we don't repeal and replace obamacare, we will destroy american health care forever. >> but now, president-elect trump seems to be softening that hard line somewhat. here's what he told "60 minutes" today for a broadcast on sunday night. let's watch. >> when you replace it, are you going to make sure that people with pre-conditions are still covered? >> yes, because it happens to be one of the strongest assets. >> you're going to keep that? >> also the children living with their parents for an extended

pe period. it adds cost, but it's something we'll try to keep. >> hs going to take the two most popular features of obamacare and finance those without having a larger people insured by obamacare. that's the hardest thing in the world to square that circle. according to the "wall street journal," mr. trump, said a big reason for his shift from his call for an all-out repeal was that thursday meeting at the white house with the president who suggested areas of the affordable care act to preserve. i told him, i will look at his suggestions and out of respect i will do that, mr. trump said. either obamacare will be amended or repealed and replaced. yamic yamiche, that's news. "amended" is a word of conciliation. but there is the squaring of a circle problem. we went through this whole thing. yes, the middle class would like to have their kids be covered before the kids have jobs and a way to pay for, even the responsibility to take upon themselves to insure themselves in their 20s, for example. of course, people who have

diabetes ii or something like that, they have something which is a pre-existing condition would very much like to be insured. but if you only insure people who have serious health conditions and have extra kids as dependent, it's going to run out of money quickly. so you can't have one without the other. so i don't know where trump's headed with this. is he headed towards an acceptance of the large part of obamacare? >> it's really unclear what he's going to accept if obamacare. i've talked to so many people, so many supporters over the last year who really, that was their driving force, was the fact that he was going to replace this with something completely new. so i think a lot of his supporters are now kind of wondering, well, what's that -- what's he going to replace it with? and i think he has a mandate, really, from his supporters, to repeal obamacare. he made that a very big part of his campaign. i think it's going to be really interesting if he then just starts to amend it and whether or not that's going to lead to a sort of revolt of the people who put him into office. >> well, the problem would be if he repealed it, all the people covered by it now are out of insurance. ron, i want to go back to you on

th this. this is a problem. he wants to fix it. that takes a few months to figure out how to fix it. but you can't just drop everybody from their insurance. they're going to die. that's probably a strong statement. but they're going to lose insurance, let's put it that way. >> well, yes, and this has been a problem forever with the republicans and obamacare. first of all, obamacare is romney care and romney care is a republican plan. this is the republican alternative to universal single-payer health care. so, yes, there are these features of obamacare that everybody loves. nobody likes the fact that if they're sick, they can't get health insurance. so you're going to tell the insurance companies that, i'm sorry, if somebody comes to you and wants to buy a policy, you have to allow them to buy a policy. and you can't charge them more for that policy, just because they have an illness. but that will not work, period, unless you mandate that everybody buys insurance. i mean, that's just a fact. >> ron, i like the gray part of your hair up front. you're getting to be a very mature gentleman.

>> i'm following hugh. >> hugh looks great. hugh, let me ask you this about -- i was impressed today that the guy from jersey got jumped again, third loss of the year, didn't get elected president, and elected vice president. and now getting dumped from the transition boss. this was a hell of a decision. who made that? kushner? who in the trump organization said, no more jersey governor. this guy's got too much baggage. we're going to bring in mike pence and make him head of transition. who did that? >> well, president-elect trump yesterday spent part of his day with the speaker of the house, constitutional officer paul ryan, and senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, who's very effective, and i wouldn't be surprised if they both whispered to him, we like to work with mike pence a lot. we get along very well with him. if we want to get off to a fast start, why don't you kind of ask him how to staff up. because a lot of the names on this list that are floating around are establishment names. that means people who have good conservative reformist ideas, but also now, as you do, chris, and as everybody knows, washington is a unique place to do business in.

better to have someone who's been there for a long time, like mike pence, and chris christie hasn't been dumped. he's been made vice chair. he's still around. it's a big circle, but mike pence is going to be the big player here, as joe biden was for president obama. >> well, it was a good bet that mike pence made on this guy. he bet on the horse and the horse won. ron, i love the way you think about this. it's great to have your perspective and friendship. yamiche, more time to you next time. i got these two other guys. they got all the ideas tonight from me. i love "the new york times" now. i hope it's getting over its efforts to prevent us from getting trump, because they didn't work. coming up, the path forward for democrats. what's the best strategy for progressives as we enter the trump era? they're drawing their battle lines for the fights ahead. it's interesting to watch the sophistication of what you might call the left in this country, although the left isn't very left here. plus, as trump begins to build his administration, we're learning more about the

political factions vying for trump's power. the ones within the group there. and there are reports that some of his loyalists are looking for political payback against republicans, establishment republicans. the "hardball" roundtable is here for that one. and after what has been a very difficult week, i want to share with you my pictures of senator robert and ted kennedy, she's going to tell us what it was like to grow up with an incredible kennedy family. and also about our very personal new book, "the nine of us." finally, let me finish with a huge question about where president-elect trump has taken himself. this is "hardball," the place for politics. remember here at ally, nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. who's with me? i'm in. i'm in. i'm in. i'm in. ♪ ♪ one, two, - wait, wait.

wait - where's tina? doing the hand thing? yep! we are all in for our customers. ally. do it right. the full value of your totaled new car. we are all in for our customers. the guy says, "you picked the wrong insurance plan." no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance. in that "60 minutes" interview that's going to air sunday, donald trump described the phone call he got early wednesday morning from secretary clinton. >> hillary called you. tell us about that phone call. >> so, hillary called and it was

a lovely call. and it was a tough call for her. i mean, i can imagine. tougher for her than it would have been for me and for me, it would have been very, very difficult. she couldn't have been nicer. she just said, congratulations, donald. well done. and i said, i want to thank you very much. you were a great competitor. she's very strong and very smart. >> what about bill clinton? did you talk -- >> he did. he called the next day. >> really? what did he say? >> actually called last night. >> what did he say? >> and he -- he couldn't have been more gracious. he said it was an amazing run. one of the most amazing he's ever seen. >> he said that? >> he was very, very really very nice. >> leslie stolt does a great job, doesn't she? we'll be right back after this.

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no compromises ever on this one. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was elizabeth warren, the senator from massachusetts. last night with my college, rachel maddow, preparing to stand up to a donald trump protest. she was there and also at that place. senator warren and her senate colleague, bernie sanders, two of the de facto leaders of the democratic party say they will stand up to bigotry against minorities. interesting, here it is. >> bigotry in all its forms, we will fight back against attacks on latinos, on african-americans, on women, on muslims, on immigrants, on disabled americans, on everyone. whether donald trump sits in a glass tower or sits in the white house, we will not give an inch on this. not now, not ever. >> this is america, and we are not going to throw out 11

million people in this country who are undocumented. we're not going to turn against one of the largest religions in the world. people who are muslim. i do not want to see muslim kids -- and we're hearing about this, already, who feel intimidated in the country and frightened, living in the country where they grew up. that is not america and we do not want to continue the attacks the against women. >> anyway, anti-trump protesters are now on the streets now, again, this is the third straight night. you're looking, by the way, at a live picture, at the demonstration of the protests out of miami, where demonstrations are blocking a roadway down there. how do democrats in the age of trump counter his presidency, his knee-jerk resistance, the best or only answer at the moment, the party appears leaderless, the democratses. amber phillips with "the washington post" writes, democrats are a body without a head right now. sanders and warren are two of the democrats' most high-profile figures left standing and they know it. there's never been a better moment for either of them to try to fill the vacuum with their left-wing populist message.

the first fight could come over the chairman. four names have said they're interested. u.s. congressman, keith ellison of minnesota, who's being backed by sanders and the likely democratic senator of the senate, chuck schumer. howard dean, ray buckley, and former maryland governor, martin o'malley. governor o'malley joins us in and out. governor mally, are you in this race? are you in this to get the chairmanship of the democratic committee? >> i'm certainly looked at it. i've been approached by members of the dnc and encouraged to give it a serious look and that's what i'm doing. our party needs to rebuild. we did worse with all of our traditional constituencies that made up the democratic party coalition and the other side was far more energized. we need to understand what the message is here. and i truly believe that when we arrive at that moment of understanding, which i believe is around economic message, that we will get to the point of

rebuilding our party, and building up a bench, and having a 50-state strategy. and speaking to the issues that concern people most. and that is their sense that their national government no longer works for them. no longer understands their hard work and their suffering and that they're not getting ahead. and that's where we trailed off. i don't know. we have to take some time to figure out how much of this was messenger, how much of this was message, how much of this was a lack of organization, at the grassroots. and that's what we're in the process of doing as a party. >> well, hillary clinton came out there and advocated for all the different elements of the democratic coalition. she was for labor, she had the good labor support. she was for minorities. she had said all the right things for minorities. she expressed herself, i thought, clearly. i'm trying to think of what group she didn't speak well for. but putting all those elements together, people are pro-israel, prolabor, pro-teacher, it seems

that never adds up to 51%. you need that second thing on top. bill clinton had it with his charm and his working people, work hard and play by the rules. what's the missing ingredient that hillary didn't have. that kept her from going from 40-some percent -- well, she ended up winning the popular vote, but winning the electoral college, what stopped her? what lacked? >> at the end of the day, there's some who say there's one issue and one issue only. and that is, do you care about me. are you on my side? and when people feel like their own national politicians aren't on their side, voting becomes purely an act of protest. donald trump ran right through two parties, not just the democratic party, he ran through the republican party. and that tells us, i think it's a humbling experience for all of us, as americans, that so many of our neighbors are so fed up and ready to check out on our democracy, that they would turn to this, turn to donald trump

here. as a party, we need to get back to the message that we are for opportunity for all. and while all of us would like our presidency to succeed, we don't want donald trump to succeed in ordering our troops to commit war crimes. we don't want him to succeed in loading up for-profit prisons with 8 million people in internment camps. those are things we cannot compromise on. we need to be passionate about our values and we need to speak of issues that people care about most around their kitchen table. and that is their own kids' future. >> thank you so much. well said, governor martin o'malley. >> thank you. >> annie linski is a political reporter with the "boston globe." and also senior political reporter, we also have perry bacon with us, senior political reporter for our nbc news. i want to start with perry, because we talk all the time. let's do some teaching now. who are the leaders of the democratic party? what are the factional options? if you're a democrat, who are you looking to to tell you what's going on. i think first of all, the congress has the biggest role in terms of blocking trump.

>> that's chuck schumer and nancy pelosi. >> the established elected leadership. i think you have elizabeth warren and bernie sanders who have these national followings. bernie ran, warren almost ran, big followings. and there's a younger group, maybe kamala harris in california, cory booker of new jersey, a younger crowd of people, i would say, sherrod brown, i want to list as well. >> yes, you're listing all the people, we had a meeting of producers. the people we want on the show. cory booker and brown and harris the new senator from california. so it's the young people, the established leaders who have been there forever and will be there for a while. chuck schumer's going to be there for a while. and pelosi. and then you have sort of the progressive, very strong progressive, who have that whole, usually with the moderates, hillary clinton being a moderate, loses and the progressives say, don't blame us, blame the moderates, it's our turn. >> yeah, look. i think the day after the election -- actually, hours after the election, i was just calling all of my sources to ask them that exact question, like, who is the leader of the party right now?

who is the leader? and it was a hard question for people to answer. and i think when you mention chuck schumer and nancy pelosi, who you're right, they are the leaders of the matter now, they are from new york and san francisco. and that is a picture of the coastal elites that wasn't enough to win an election. the democratic party needs to figure out a way, not necessarily as o'malley said, build up a 50-state strategy, they need a 4-state strategy at this point. they need to rebuild their blue wall that just crumbled. >> so what are the democrats going to do? >> i think they're going to do a couple of things. first of all, you saw those protests. they definitely need to have an outside strategy to appeal to the people who are upset with trump winning. i think this protest movement is not going away. where's it go to? does it end up petering out? >> i don't think so. we have to know what trump is going to do. if trump does deportations -- >> can you see the streets filled with young people. saw them in new york. saw them in new york. are they going to stay there, in

the streets from now until inaugural day? >> i don't think they're going to stay issue the a, i don't know. but i expect they will -- >> it gets cold out. >> but will they come back if trump comes back. >> please come back, we're short on time tonight. up next, the democrats as they prepare their strategy, trump's building his team and we're learning more about the role of the trump children and some of the strong hard-liners that trump has now surrounded himself with. the "hardball" roundtable will be here for this troubling question. this is "hardball," the place for politics. assion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet?

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welcome back to "hardball." there's less than 90 days before the transfer of power is complete. donald trump is finalizing his transition team. but behind the scenes, warring factions in trump world are playing a game of tug-of-war as to who really gets the final say. late today, we learned that vice president-elect mike pence, a republican stalwart, will lead the team replacing chris christie, who now assumes or becomes number two in this whole thing. a title of vice chairman, which means practically nothing. meanwhile, the transition staff also includes three children of donald trump, donald trump jr., eric, ivanka, and also his son-in-law, jared kushner. throughout the campaign, testify counseled their father and fiercely guarded the family brand. they will now set about the task of filling cabinet positions for the new trump administration. rudy giuliani, an early supporter, was asked about his own prospects within the

administration. here's what he told the press. >> i have no expectation. all i do is give my advice. donald has been my friend for 28 years. all of my work on behalf of him has been out of great loyalty and friendship to him. i can see, already, how he is going to be a great president. and i'm glad i could play a small role. >> what's your advice for him? >> that i give to him personally. >> meanwhile, we continue to watch those anti-trump protests out in the streets tonight. we're seeing demonstrations in the streets of atlanta and miami right thousand. for more on what we can expect, i'm joined by the roundtable, jay newton small, ken vogel, and chaurs dante, with the "huffington post." i want to start with you. you're on top of this, i know you are. explain to people who are trying to figure -- people on the left, who are scared to death of this guy. what are the three factions fight for the heart of this new administration. >> all of these tfactions, all f

these forces played a role in the change we saw with chris christie being replaced as head of the transition team by mike pence. we have the family, jared kushner, the son-in-law, married to ivanka trump. extremely influential. was very influential in getting rid of corey lewandowski, the first campaign manager. he had clashed with some of the pokes around christie. interestingly, christie had prosecuted jared kushner's father years ago. but i understand that's not one of the main reasons why. >> oh, yeah? it would be with me. if somebody tried to knock my father off, i would say, i remember that. isn't that the reason we went to the iraq war? w. didn't like what saddam hussein did to his dad. jump in, jay. i think it's fascinating. i think the kids are good in a sense that they care about the long-term. that's one thing about churn. that's why people in third world countries want their oldest son to replace them. those kids have a -- the ideologues scare me.

people like steve bannon and steve bossy, they are hard liners that will use the horse to run to go where they want to go. they have always wanted to go in that hard-right direction, so trump's now their horse. but are they caring about the horse or where they want to go? >> we're going to learn a lot from who he picks as chief of staff. if it's somebody like steve bannon, you know he's going to go -- >> that's frightening. really hard against the establishment. the second tier are the guys who came up to the campaign with him. the kellyanne conways, the steve bannones, and all those folks. all those peek who worked for the last year and a half to get him elected. the third tier is the establishment. everybody else in the republican party, and so you see this sort of really fascinating competition between the second tier and third tier on who's going to be in the cabinet. >> who's winning? >> we'll see tonight, frankly. we understand that there could be a chief of staff decision, as soon as tonight, and he's choosing -- >> why is he rushing -- >> between steve bannon, who does represent that populist wing and reince priebus --

>> i'm not his biggest fan. i've got to tell you, a guy like him knows what he's doing. let me ask you something i care about. one thing i like about trump. some parts, very mixed bag, some things i detest. i thought he was anti-war, i thought he was going to take us back from the crazy neocon world -- there's always a war in the in-basket. there's always a war we want to fight. john bolton for secretary of state. that's to throw back everything he suggested to the people who are sick of these wars. >> he didn't want to get involved in wars. and yet we've got to knock the hell out of isis, right? so which is it? and how'd we do that without actually going to syria in great numbers? so, yeah win look at everything he said during the campaign and now ignore it. because the day before the election, he was saying, crooked hillary and the night of the election, secretary clinton, you've done wonderful work and thank you for your service. >> what do you think his voters think of that? >> they think it's magnificent.

that isn't he a wonderful leader now? >> they signed on him -- >> they seem disappointed by him. >> they seem to like him as a being. >> shehe's entertaining. >> the force field for him was so strong, it withstood -- billy bush, he's out of a job for listening to the guy. i'm sorry! he was listening to him. and that's what happens -- >> even today, he basically backtracked on all of his promises to israel. he's not going to move the embassy, he's not going to rip up a the iran deal -- >> i have watched that embassy number since they were born. and everybody when they ran said they would move it to jerusalem, knowing the catastrophe it would take over there. some people die over rocks. the fighting just outrageous over these symbolic moves. you mess around with the temple, it's all crazy. let me ask you about the cabinet. what do you see happening? we've been hearing bolden, we've been hearing rudy giuliani for secretary of state. we've been hearing newt gingrich for secretary -- let's take that one job, the most important

cabinet position, i think we agree. what are you hearing? >> certainly, all those names are folks who we have heard -- >> how about reasonable people like stephen hadley? >> that's what's so -- you raised the contrast between the -- >> or richard haas? >> these are all neocons. these are folks that are going to -- the other folks, we just talked about. john bolton, jeff sessions. these guys who are being considered for secretary of defense. traditional republican hawks. >> you've been great. come back and tell me something i don't know. we'll be right back.

we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. jay, tell me something i don't know. >> the people who really delivered this election for donald trump were surprisingly women. noncollege-educated white women swung very hard for donald trump. he was tied with hillary a month before the election. they swung and he won them -- >> near the end, too, i think. >> talking to folks inside trump's transition team, and they are absolutely relishing

getting to people who opposed trump in the primary to go pound sand, from everything from inauguration tickets to lobbying contests. >> that's really going to help them. >> for the last two months, donald trump has been complaining how much hard work it was, this campaigning stuff is. wait until he gets in the office. i think he's going to hate the job. >> jim baker, is he available? anyway, thank you, jay newton small, ken vogel, and chaurs. when we come back, my conversation with jean kennedy smith, the sister kennedy, bobby kennedy, and ted kennedy. she talks about what it was like to grow up with that incredible family, in a very new personal book she's written, "the nine of us." this is "hardball," the place for politics. e always at hilton. so pay less and get more only at hilton.com.

tonight, we expect hillary clinton to make her first public appearance since her wednesday morning concession. we got word that hillary clinton will likely address her staff members tonight at a staff party in brooklyn. i think it might be televised. keep watching us. if it is televised, you can bet it's going to be on msnbc. "hardball" back after this. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like any of these types of plans, it could help you with out-of-pocket medical costs. call now and request your free decision guide and explore the range of aarp medicare supplement plans. start gathering the information you need... to roll into sixty-five with confidence.

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kennedys from jean kennedy smith who grew up with jack and robert and all the rest. here's our exclusive interview. >> ambassador, what was it like, you're a kennedy, growing up in the eighth -- you're the eighth kid of nine kids. what was that like? >> how much time do we have? >> but you're at the little kids' table, way at the back of the pack. >> yes, it's true. well, we were a very close family, you know. my brothers were home a great deal, because they were at boarding school and all of that. but right from the beginning, mother and my father was very engaged in what we were all doing. and we were all told to be sort of some for each other. and bobby was just above me, so he had to keep an eye on me and pat, who was also my next older sister. i was very close to both of them growing up, and teddy on the other side. i was right between them. i knew them very well. and being the eighth of nine,

you know, everybody told you what to do. so the only person i could tell what to do was teddy. and that wasn't easy. >> can you remember them now? in your book, you seem to remember them pretty well. >> oh, yeah -- >> -- attorney general and senator from massachusetts and all that, and your sister and all of that, before all the celebrity of the kennedy family, before all the tragedy, before everything, you seem to have a pretty good memory. >> oh, yes, well, we did everything together, you see. mother designated everything. pat, you take care of jean, when we go to the movies, dad always say, jack, you look after bobby, all of that. so we all, we were engaged with each other and everything we did. and we were all included. so, most things, at least. and so -- >> did it seem normal to have nine kids? did that seem abnormal to have a family that large? >> no, because we all had fun. you didn't have to call a friend

or call anybody to come over. because we were perfectly happy. so, it worked out very well. >> when you were still a kid, you had an older brother, joe jr.. >> yes, who of course went off and got killed in world war ii. >> he was my godfather, too. and the windows were so much -- the older boys, like jack kennedy and joe and kick were all so much older than you. were they like uncles or aunts -- >> no, they were sort of -- they were an older brother, but they were very solicitous for the younger ones. and joe was my godfather, as well as my oldest brother. he would always write me letters at school and see how i was doing and are you sad and stuff. you know, is work easy, we'll see you next weekend, and don't worry about anything. >> how do you reconcile a picture of jack kennedy as president, a celebrated, handsome president, leader of the world, puts a man on the moon, cuben missile crisis, all that stuff, peace corps, all the good stuff. how do you connect that to him

as a brother, growing up as a kid? >> i'll tell you right now, actually, there's a picture in this room of him, that he gave -- there it is. and it says, dear jean, don't deny you did it. this was right after he was president. and so he gave it to me personally and i thought, isn't that wonderful that he recognized i made all these speeches for him. and then, of course, i had a little peek at pat's. dear pat, don't deny you did it. so he said to everyone, don't deny you did it. we were all so happy, and then we found out we were all being congratulated. >> you know all the secrets when he was young, he wasn't this prince charming, he was sick all the time, he was in bed, they thought he had something like leukemia for years, he had the bad back, he had later addison's disease, but he was a sickly kid lying in bed reading under the covers, like sort of a dorky

kid, who wasn't that cool. and nobody thinks about him that way. >> no. well, because he never really was that way. i mean, i saw him a lot when he was sick. but he would be in bed. he would have a book that he loved. i mean, you never stop reading. never. and i never saw him -- when i saw him i saw him reading, i j knew he loved books and i didn't bother him or anything. he never complained. and a couple of times when actually when he was president i would see him get in the car, you know, and hold his back. but other than that, i never heard him say anything. >> what do you make of that? >> because he wasn't a whiner. you know, some people are whiners. and he wasn't. he -- you never said how are you feeling? because he didn't want to talk about it. then he would always play touch football with us. that's in the book. >> i didn't think i'd ask you about that, but this obsession with touch football. the kennedys almost introduced

the game. it was two-handed touch, right? >> no. >> one-handed? >> one-handed. because it was something we could all play together without a lot of organization or anything. so we just split. >> talk about bobby because football was -- he determined to get the letter at harvard, he got the letter at harvard. he played with a broken leg at one point. in the yale game. he didn't actually play but he was in uniform and he got off the bench and they gave him credit for that. what was that drive about? why did he have to be such a jock? >> because he had drive for everything. whatever he wanted to do, he wanted to do well. and he loved sports from the get go because jack didn't do much. he did the best he could. and joe was away a lot. and he just took charge of a lot of things in the family. >> jack got the swimming letter. >> yeah. he was a terrific swimmer. he was a really good swimmer. >> when did you get the idea growing up that your family was headed to the white house? when did it click, my god, my

father has a plan here and he wants his oldest kid to be president? when did that get around the house? >> you hear the discussions in the book we discussed very much about the war, the second world war and what we were going to do and what roosevelt was going to do and what america was going to do. it was a very ongoing conversation. and as you probably know, my father was against america getting involved in that. so it was very animated conversation. so they were expecting something and he was very much in the conversation. >> did anybody ever take on your dad, defend fdr, because he didn't like fdr's war policy. >> no, he didn't. not at all, no. we didn't actually have many arguments with my father. now, generally we respected him who he knew, we thought,

everything. he was very engaging when he talked. he didn't tell us what to do. jack, what do you think, what do think we should do? should we send all these men to europe. what does europe mean to america? made you think about why are we in this? he kept it very lively like that, asked their opinions a great deal. they respected that a lot that they were heard. it made them more and more interested if he'd lead the conversation that way. >> your family's always, even when they're on the liberal side of things, even though they are on the liberal side of politics, absolute patriots. >> oh, yes. >> and you all join the military, everybody did d all the brothers did, all fought. one was killed, one was almost killed, jack and bobby and teldy went in as well. this is something about the love of this country is powerful stuff. >> yes, oh, absolutely. well, i mean, they thought that was one of our things that we

have to realize that no whining in this house. you read that chapter. and that was all because if you the were complaining, you know, you should be so grateful to live in america. you should be thinking about all the time what you can do for this country. no whining in this house. that was very strict. >> she's the real thing. her book is called "the nine of us, growing up kennedy" about coming of age that the kennedy fem. it's not too early to get a christmas present for your friends. a hell of a good book about real people who happen to be the kennedys. when we return, let me finish with a huge question of where president-elect trump is taking us. this won't be as sublime as that interview i had with jean kennedy smith.

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let me finish tonight with a huge question of where president-elect trump is taking himself. this is a critical time in a critical question. why? because before he takes the country in any direction, he will first take himself in that direction. if mr. trump picks a bunch of angry people eager for trouble types, that will be the name of the game for the next four years. if mr. trump picks a group of people looking to advance changing they truly believe are good for the country, they'll find ways to do it and people to do it with, that's an all together different thing. one area that worries me is foreign policy. i was impressed with trump's opposition.

at least in hindsight, to the iraq war. if he was so ready to say it was a bad war, a bad decision, i saw a sign of hope because the political establishment of this country, democrats and republicans, backed that horrendous decision down the line. that decision, which cost so many lives and through the mideast open to the hell we have burning over there today. so i sit here worried, is he really going to pick a war hawk as his secretary of defense? will he really let the people who took us to war in 2003 who were the cheerleaders for disaster take another bite at the apple? just listen to neocons, they're dying for another battle over there. it began with iraq, libya, then the endless call to throw our young men and women into syria. the endless battle cries against iran. picking someone like john bolden for secretary of state or any position of power would be a betrayal of months and months of offering this country an alternative to the stupidity of the iraq war. first job of any president-elect is to do no harm.

picking john bolden would be to jump into bed with a viper. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. for all the veterans who served our country, thank you for your service. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> michael moore on what democracy looks like in the era of trump. his take on how the midwest was won and his to-do list to lead democrats out of the wilderness. plus the president-elect hires his family to run the transition? >> i have ivanka and eric and don sitting there. run the company, kids, have a good time. >> tonight rachel maddow on the exploding conflicts just three days in and the role the media needs to play in donald trump's america. and on veterans day -- [ playing "taps" ]