>> hello, everyone. and welcome to "a.m. joy." we had an election and basically everyone who predicted what the outcome was going to be was wrong. me included.

so republicans, donald trump, congratulations, you won the white house. yes, hillary clinton won about half a million more votes, but he won for electors. and that means according to the u.s. constitution, once the electoral college meets and votes, donald trump will officially be the president-elect. let that sink in america. this guy is going to be the president of the united states. and the face of the country to the world. >> automatically attracted to beautiful women, just like a magnet. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> great job, america. now to the 60,265,8 60,265,858 o voted for donald trump, and

those who -- donald trump his the republican party, which controls all three branches of government, they control the house, the senate and the white house. now you have given trump a man ultimately described as vengeful, erratic, and unnit to be president. and that's what conservative republicans said about him. you've give on him control of the fbi, the cia, the irs, pretty ironic since he probably hasn't paid taxes in 18 years and drones and nuclear weapons. republicans now have no excuse to do the things they have been promising for decades. once he gets to washington, trump will have to get really busy. he's promised to build a wall across the southern border, that's going to require an appropriation from the

republican congress. why would fn't they do it? you don't want voters punishing you for not doing it. america, if this wall is going to get built, you are going to have pay for it. donald trump has promised to cancel daca, which means those who have identified themselves as immigrants under president obama. congress doesn't have to lift a finger to make this happen. trump can actually rescind obama's executive orders. the local police departments some of whom have been quite enthusiastic about his candidacy. trump has vowed to repeal obama care and replace it with something terrific. that means the republican congress will either need to pass a new repeal bill or send one of the 50-plus repeal bills to the house and senate and then to trump eels desk. senate majority leader mitch

mcconnell is simply end the filibuster on the first day of the new congress. when the repeal is signed, 22 million of you will lose your insurance. that number could go even higher because now donald trump is saying he'll keep a provision of the law that left by itself could force insurance companies out of business. we'll have more on that later in the show. trump has also vowed to implement a ban on any immigration to the u.s. and even muslim tourism to the u.s. if you're in a state with a large tourist -- offended by this idea my also rethink a visit to the united states in the trump era. meanwhile the supreme court will now have an open lane to overturn roe v. wade, means women may soon be refighting issues of abortion state by state. for black lives matter activists and anyone who values the civil

rights division of the justice department for the preservation of voting rights-and then hello, world. he could be joined in the cabinet by pitchfork sheriff david clarke as head of homeland security. with a trump appropriation in the u.s., a woman is now leader of the free world, no, not that woman, this woman. german's angela merkel. she's now all that stands between russia and it's global ambitions and we'll explain that in a bit. so now that i have told you what you won, trump america, allow me to tell you what you've lost. you've lost the morality card. no longer can the u.s. go around lecturing the world about democracy, because in our democracy, the person who got the most votes will not be president. nor will the party that got the

most votes control the house of representatives. again, we're required to accept this after front to democracy, because that's our system. but our acceptance doesn't make it any less democratic. you have also lost the notion of an exceptional america. because as it turns out, we're just another western nation falling into the ethno national forces sweepi ining across euro. we as it turns out are not so different after all. you have also lost the right to moralize to blue america about family values. we inserely hope and pray that your daughters and your sis teschs and your wives and all women and girls are never disrespected the way that the. when your sons and daughters ask

you if little girls are as valuable as little girls or should emulate the values of the united states, we'll leave that to you to explain. and lastly, you have lost the right to rattle on about immigrants. you are now the party of donald trump. you saw exactly who and what he was and you chose it. you're going to have to own that. if the incoming president makes you feel proud, i'm very happy for you, but please don't tell the people who are afraid that they have no right to be. and my friends in the media who are rushing to normalize trump, who are blindly calling on scared teachers and students to come together and accept what's happening while donald trump ushers in an emboldened kkk and will soon have a place in the white house. please remember that nothing has at as changed about donald trump.

he is an unpopular person who's under criminal investigation, whose foundation was found to be a sham of self-dealing. and who is in unknown amounts of debt to unknown foreign entities in a way we have never known as a president. he's still the guy who has made statements who has offended any group in the u.s. he's still the guy who said that. >> automatically attracted to beautiful women, i just start kissing them, it's lying a magnet. and when you're a star, they let you do it, you can do anything, you can grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> this isn't about access or normalize e e iz normalize-with the same zeal and skepticism and doggedness that

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when you replace it, are you going to make sure that people with preexisting conditions, are you going to keep that? >> that's important, we're very much going to try and keep that. >> donald trump had promised to grant the number one desire of congressional republicans, something they want so badly they voted for it more than 50 times, repealing obama care, the affordable care act.

but now he says he would like to keep the most popular parts of the law. but doing that could be even worse than keeping the entire law. because requiring insurance coverage to people who are already sick only works if you require healthy people to carry inshushs. if you don't have the mandate, premiums will spiral out of control. it's literally called the health insurance death spiral. repealing the entire law would leave 22 million people without insurance. but what donald trump wants to do could potential lly leave millions more without health care. and reverend barber, i want to go to you first. north carolina, i believe you guys are still in a recount with

your governor and a lot of the opposition to him was driven by his refusal to accept obama care, to take the expanded medicaid. i want to talk about in human terms what the repeal of obama care would mean to the poor. >> in our state alone, it would mean 500,000 people losing access, they already are being denied because of our governors and legislatures that's white people and veterans in the 19 or 20 states who have refused medicaid expansion, you're talking about 8 million. and for every 500 ,000 people denied, we're talking about 2,800 people dying each year and thousands of jobs being lost in the very areas that need it. and rural hospitals m of which serve white persons and

african-americans being closed. it's irrational when people say that they voted for trump for change. what i believe when you have fear rooted in racism, it's e irrational. and that's why we cannot walk away from the racial side of this election. somebody called it, they said this is -- this change wasn't over immigration and health care, it's about restoring a racial hierarchy. and donald trump fed that, they bought into that and voted literally against their own self-interest, even their own health care. >> the interesting thing is that it also in a lot of ways really empowers the very establishment that a lot of trump voters say

they oppose. more than 100,000 people selected health care plans, signed up for the affordable health care act just wednesday, the day after the election. i want you to listen to speaker paul ryan, who didn't want to say donald trump's name to being absolutely giddy because he has a whole list of things he wants to do, let's talk about paul ryan talk about health care. >> what people don't realize is that because of obama care medicare is going broke. because of obama care, medicaid is in fiscal straits. you have to deal with those issues if you're going to repeal and replace obama care. >> let's talk about what paul ryan wants to do which is to privatize medicare, and appeal all of obama care. what would that do. >> there's lots of problems with medicaid and medicare and they're not with obama care. medicaid and medicare cannot negotiate prices of prescription drug which is unheard of. why wouldn't you be able to?

the idea is that obama care exists because there's a mandate, because insurance companies just wouldn't insure those who aren't insurable then they would have to be on medicare and medicaid, that's the problem. so medicare and medicaid being broken is a long standing problem that has to be repaired. the idea was to take pressure off the entire system with obama care, it didn't go as far as it could have in terms of managing the cost size of the equation, but it went a long way towards insuring those extra 22 million people. economically this is not feasible. you cannot say as donald trump did, i want to keep kids insured at home, i want to keep people with preexisting conditions in sho insured, at least you'll get a choice. you can't keep half of it, it's kind of like being half pregnant. >> the trump health care policy

as we know it is they will change the affordable care act which is something they have wanted to do for a long time. allow insurance companies to sell across state lines, change insurance tax credits and deductions which means only wealthy ti y filers who already the detection. so explain to me how people who isn't wealthy and doesn't itemize their deductions would get health care. >> it wouldn't. paul ryan didn't say i actually think it's important for a working class family to have to choose between having health care coverage and going broke. if they did, so many states would not have expanded medicaid, particularly for working class people. >> going to indiana, his soon to be vice president. >> exactly. so the other piece that needs to be other than the mandate of course is the subsidies. here in new york, we had

pre-exiexisting coverage you actually have to support people in order to require them to pay into insurance companies in order to get to see a doctor. now we could go an entirely different direction, where we have single payer, where we have a public option, where we have medicare or call. >> a single payer can negotiate prices. >> david k. johnson, one of the interesting things and you have covered donald trump for a long time. is the reason he changed his mind suddenly on repealing the affordable care act. i'll just read it to you, from "the wall street journal" interview, mr. donald trump said a big reason for his shift was that thursday meeting at the white house with the president who he said suggested areas of the affordable care act to preserve, i said i would look at his suggestions, the last person he talked to is what he wants to do. in your view, does donald trump

have an ideological desire to repeal the affordable care act. >> donald has said that health care should be a right just like going to public school and he's in favor of no out of pocket health care. so when we went into the campaign on this rant, it was part of his racist appeal, and his white supremacist appeal to get votes. and with everything else he said during the campaign, we're now going to see he's going to do whatever he thinks is the right thing to do at the moment. i don't see any serious policy here. donald is not somebody who sits down and reads policy papers for hours on end like president obama for example. >> one of the things that drove a lot of white evacngelicals wh overwhelmingly supported donald trump was this idea of abortion being really important to them and for some people birth

control. vax says donald trump can end the free birth control mandate which bothered a lot of conservative christians. some of these things could actually happen even if congress doesn't help him. >> you know what i think droe those so called evangelicals is -- it was more about the backing of the money behind it, the business interests. this whole business of white evangelicalism started in the 40s when they wanted to find a theological way to come against what franklin delano roosevelt was going. the realty was they walked away from the primary pieces of the gospel. how can you support somebody who stands up and tells you, if you elect me, i believe that minimum

wage is already too high. i'm going to take people's health care, i'm going to priva privatize schools. and that's one of the things we have rejected in this particular election. that is why you cannot understand this irrational vote without factoring in the racism, factoring in the white rage, the white backlash that trump and not just him, that began even when obama first got elected and ryan and others have played on. and they played on it because they want to do two things get elected and siphon government money through tax cuts. it is a dangerous form of politics, which is why i don't think -- people say you congratulate him. the role, particularly moral leadership is not to congratulate him, but to counsel him, to counsel him to repent, not just what he said, but what

he put on paper. it's about what he said on paper that is so dangerous where we are right now. >> i want to go through and ask, and it's an important point, because i think while we're doing the pageantry, we need to talk about the policy and what he would actually do. in the end, do you think the affordable care act would be repealed under a trump administration? >> they're not going to do nit a running back, they're going to take their time, they're going to want to limit the damage to an election two years out. the outcome is not going to be good for poor and working class people. there's a strong racist element in this. >> do you think it's pragmatic to say that republicans would fully repeal and risk 22 million people's backlash. >> this is the congress that

voted against obama care and who voted against the iran deal. i think they're going to rush as headlong as possible and as fast as possible into repealing obama care. i think maybe donald trump is rethinking this thing. donald trump's goingo come up against congress. this congress is a little bit economically off its rocker and has been for several years. i don't hold out hope that they're going to all of a sudden decide, there's parts of this obama care thing we like. i'm worried they're going to pull it out permanently. >> i think the outcome of the -- david k. johnson saying this is really about racism is extremely important here, i think they understand as donald trump did that actually having government policies that help people have a decent way of life is surprise, surprise quite popular as long as it's not seen as redistribution from white americans, real americans, to people of color who are

undeserving at best. they will move immediately to rename it to something else, start calling it something else, keep popular provisions and i do think that they won't want to because they are actually ideal logical logically opposed to president obama and what he represents. i don't think they will want to shoot themselves in the foot by making an ongoing conversation about 22 million people losing their health care. >> if they do that and decide to try to pass a whole new health care bill, i will be shocked. but it will not surprise me if just for ideological reasons they go ahead and do it. >> i just want to say one silver lining in this is they no longer have color now, and everything they do they have will to own it and the people will see it. i believe once they see what they do, even they will -- this

may be their demise more than not getting elected, in fact getting elected and having to own everything they do from here forward. >> this is what happens when the dog catches the car. thank you all. and coming up, will trump bill that wall that got his followers so riled up? stay with us. my business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my busin.. which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? i just want to find a used car start at the new carfax.com show me used trucks with one owner.

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according to the guardian, trump -- the pipeline is near the standing rock sioux reservation in north dakota where thousands of protesters have been camped out since august because they consider the pipeline a threat to the water supply and tribal lands. officials said no decisions have been made. "a.m. joy" as covered this exten sily. coming up, donald trump on immigration. stay with us.

at planters we know how to throw a remarkable holiday party. just serve classy snacks and be a gracious host, no matter who shows up. [cricket sound] richard. didn't think you were going to make it. hey sorry about last weekend, i don't know what got into me. well forgive and forget... kind of. i don't think so! do you like nuts? we will cancel all funding to sanctuary cities, we will stop illegal immigration, deport all criminal aliens and dismantle every last gang and cartel threatening our cities.

>> welcome back. for all the talk of trump voters taking him seriously but not literally, the whole point is that he's not a politician, so they can actually expect him to followthrough on his promises and those plans include building a wall along the mexican border, deport undocumented immigrants. and repealing daca. the question is will he do it? and what will be the political consequences for the trump republican party. joining me now the raul reyes. i'm going to start with you raul on where we ended. the 78,000 young people who made themselves known to the federal government under daca, he

doesn't need congress now, he can just rescind the executive order. what happens to those 27,000 people. >> the 740,000 of them, they are at risk. i can not overestimate right now the legal of fear and terror in immigrant communities across the country, not only among the undocumented but among people with mixed status families, among their allies. the wall, that may not happen. he can cancel daca. in 2012 and 2014, he decided that i.c.e. was going to go after hard criminals. and basically they can go after anyone, which puts long-term residents at risk. so we may very likely see home raids, workplace raids, and the dangerous potential in that is those are known to be chaotic,

they sweep up long time residents with legal status. they sweep up american citizens, and we do know based on past experience they are so chaotic and they are not safe. and meanwhile while you're casting such a wide net, the hardcore criminals, they're basically running free because they know how to evade the government. >> and this would be done on television. let's just recall that americans now have phones, it will be done on cameras there,'s no way they're going to be dragging people out of their homes in the dark and no one see it. that's going to have political consequences. all the issues of who donald trump is assembling behind him. we know joe arpaio is available, he's been a big supporter. but there's another guy out there, his name is chris cobach, who a lot of people remember as the author of the papers please law, known to travel in the ranks of it will be what the

southern poverty law center says are hate groups. this is the kansas secretary of state talking about the wall. take a listen. >> if we want to make mexico pay for the wall, we tell them, from this point forward, after our regulation is passed, if you want to send money home, and you're an alien living in the united states, you have to prove that you are here legally before that money can be sent. well that would shut off more than $10 billion a year and tell mexico, look, would you like to see these remittances end or would you like to help us pay for the wall. what would you pick? >> this is blackmail and it's also racial profiling to seize western union and money gram that are sent by any person who appears to be or is thought to be mexican. is that even legal?

>> kris kobach, he is racial profiling in flesh and blood. he was the author of s.b. 1070. that the supreme court gutted and said that it was illegal because it was racial profiling and you have no idea how many people in arizona that were u.s. citizens got swept up in being identified simply by the way they looked. everybody right now in the united states, your alarm should be going on, because my mother always said you are who your friends are, because we have individual who is stay they are merciless when it comes to immigration reform. what i encourage people to do is start learning your rights. go to the aclu. we're still waiting for the trump administration to give us clari clarity. we do not have clarity yet on

exactly what he expects to do, but the idea of the cast of characters that he's surrounding himself with is something we should be concerned be. and let me just read, when he said he is going to do a muslim ban, he was basically going to create a system where you would have to assess an immigrant's stance's on religious freedom, gender equality, gay rights, and it would surely provoke constitutional challenges, because he is basically going to the antithesis of who we are in this country. >> who would sit still for this? because if money gram and western union are now going to say that their businesses are subject to who? are police going to be standing inside western unions to see if somebody looks mexican? >> are you going to have to show some kind of proof of

citizenship? he could change the work visa requirements to basically make it harder for people to come into this country. advisors to jeff sessions, who is against even legal immigration. and though there's a lot of confusion about trump's policy, he has at this point his personnel is policy. and what we can do now, what i tell people right now, what i have been telling people the last two weeks, the latino community, so many people are in shock, people are grieving, people are very scared. but now is the time, if you're feeling that scaredness, that sadness, now is the time if you believe in this country and believe is that all people need to be treated with respect and dignity. now is the time to realize that this country needs us more than ever. >> one of my favorite stories last week was by my friend who did a story in the huffington

post. there is a tribe in arizona that's in control of tribal lands that span a 75-mile gap of where this supposed wall would be and the chief of that tribe has said that over his dead body will trump get his land to build a wall. you build a hole if you want to, but there's going to be a big old 75-mile gap in it. >> the amount of people that have come forth to basically unite and say this is the country they live in and they are going to fight tooth and nail for it is aspiring. but when we start talking about this idea of building a wall, by building a wall, you're going to ruin the environment as well. because you have natural migrations of animals that go back and forth. you have no concept of how the world works in a very certain way. when you start saying we're going to deport all these people, you're not only saying you're going to collapse homeland security, but you're going to collapse whole

economies in the united states, but also in latin america and throughout because these individuals, there are whole countries that depend on remittances in order to be solvable. if youhink we have an immigrant crisis now, you haven't seen anything yet. >> it's very significant to mexico's economy, without those remittances, what a very likely consequence is increased immigration, legal and illegal into this country. >> i suspect that the governor of mexico is going to capitulate and say, okay, we're going to build the wall. it will be interesting to see if trump does get his wall through. we'll use american steel this time, because usually in his own buildings, he goes for the chinese steel. thank you so much. and in our next hour, what will happen with american foreign policy and law and order in this country over the next four years.

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er. the lawsuit against donald trump university is set to go to trial in less than three weeks. the case is being heard by u.s. district judge who will you recall trump accused of being biassed because of his mexican heritage. the suit is just one of several open lawsuits that could follow trump into the white house and

that does not include trump's threat to sue at least a dozen people who accused him of sexual misconduct. >> every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. total fabrication. the events never happened. never. all of these liars will be sued after the election is over. >> and joining me now is attorney lisa bloom who represents two of trump's accusers and "newsweek's" senior writer kirk ikens abowald. trurp has now accused his accusers of being liars and threatening to sue them. this is gloria allred with summer who's one of the accusers. take a listen. >> i challenge him to seize this

opportunity now to retract his statement that these accusers ar liars and that their allegations are fabrications and fiction. my response to the question of what we will do is mr. trump does not retract his threat to sue the accusers is the same as mr. trump's response in the debate. quote, what i'm saying is that i will tell you at the time. i will keep you in suspense. okay? >> lisa bloom, the reason that that's relevant is there's a precedent here called jones v. clinton. that the president or any official does not have an immunity that extends beyond his official capacity. that means if any of these accusers sue donald trump for libel or sexual harassment, he

would have to be deposed and stand trial, correct? >> my case of janice dickenson versus bill cosby. when she spoke out and accused him of sexual assault, he said that she was a liar. in other words calling a woman a liar when she comes forward with a sexual assault allegation can be defamation. and i represent actually four trump accusers, two who spoke out publicly using their name, one who came forward as a jane doe and one who is still considering it even now after the election, and she was just too scared to do it before the election. and if mr. trump is going to come through on that promise to stu his accusers, i will say it here i will represent any of them free, we will crowd fund defense costs, we will get discovery into mr. trump's activities, we'll get those apprentice types, we'll take his depositions and the depositions

of all of his enablers. he knows that and his lawyers know that and that ee's why it' highly unlikely he's going to do it. >> even if donald trump didn't followthrough and sue some of these accusers, they could sue him. so you have that, let's put that in one box. in another box are these ongoing legal cases including against trump university. what is the likelihood that the judge's case would go away because donald trump has now been elected? >> the argument i'm too busy is not one that is actually ever flown. the probabilities -- i mean, it's difficult to predict possibili probabilities. but the case law is very, very strong. certainly the president doesn't have the ability to stop a civil action. the president-elect has even less power. you know, there is no constitutional power that, you

know, attaches to the president-elect, other than you'll be president on january 20th at 12:00. other than that, you know, he is just arguing i'm too busy to have a case. and, you know, courts do not look on that as a legitimate argument. >> and just to stay with you for a moment, kurt, is this trump foundation. you still have the attorney general of new york has ordered donald trump university to stop raising money in new york. and pam bondi is now on the transition team, which isweird, and you've got at the same time donald trump saying his children are going to run his businesses in a blind trust and presumably going to run the trump foundation. is any of that normal, legal or doable? >> no. >> kurt, you first. >> let me start with this whole blind trust, it is a fundamental lie. i cannot take, you know, a cat, put it in a bag and say i don't

know what's there. the whole essence of a blind trust is you take an assortment of investments and you turn them over to somebody that's independent, and that's it, it's gone, they're going to trade, whatever, you don't hear bit, and they are acting while in your best interest, they are acting independently. here, donald trump's family will be earning the money off of the trump organization, there is no blind trust here. you know, it is an absurd argument and it's one that, you know, i have written in "newsweek" about the fact that of the number of national security conflicts that are presented by the trump organization, donald trump knowing that donald trump jr. and ivanka and the rest will --

when he slams pakistan, instead of taking a balanced approach to india and pakistan. which choice is he going to make? his kids or the american people. >> you have trump invested in the pipeline, that presumably his own administration would approve. you have donald trump leasing the old post office down the street from the white house with his name on it and then moving into the white house. the legal entanglements here feel unpress dented. >> i just wrote a piece of avo.com about checks and balances. the best hope we have right now is the courts. the judiciary, the third branch of government and i believe that donald trump is about to bump up against the big beautiful wall of the constitution and the laws of the united states. it's one thing to run a company and you just issue edicts, everybody in the company has to follow them. it's another thing to run a country and you have to comply with the law at every turn.

he's going to have a lot of problem with conflict of interest laws, anti-nepotism laws and more broadly, the u.s. constitution which requires equality of treatment, due process for everyone in the united states, whether they are a citizen or not. the first amendment so he's not going to be able to sue the "new york times" and his accusers and everybody else, i believe that's going to be the strongest bulwark for trump in the next few years. up next, donald trump hasn't exactly outlined a concrete foreign policy platform, but we do have some idea of what we can expect, more "a.m. joy" after the break. attention: are you eligible for medicare?

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if someone hits us with a -- >> first of all, you don't want to say take everything off the table, because you would be a bad negotiator if you did. >> just nuclear. >> nuclear should be off the table. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." if we're to believe donald trump about his plans for foreign policy, america and it's world stage is about to undergo a dramatic shift. starting with a notable easing of policies with russia. a diplomat in the russian foreign ministry said that russia had contact with the trump presidential campaign. according to "the washington post." donald trump's spokeswoman hope hicks denied that there had been any contact between russian officials and the campaign

before election day. but the question of donald trump and his campaign's chuminess with the kremlin hangs over a russian government that was accused by the obama administration of hacking e-mails to influence the outcome of the election. we haven't in fact heard anything yet from trump that constitutes a concrete policy or plan on russia. but his victory was nonetheless welcomed by russian president vladimir putin who trump praised on the campaign trail. and who sent trump a telegram of congratulations and expressed his optimism in american-russian relations. we do have a bit more clarity on trump's plans to lead our country in its approach to the middle east. the iranian nuclear deal will

be -- full blown restart of their nuclear weapons program. the u.s.-back syrian rebels, they may soon be on their own. and to our allies in nato who are worried whether we'll continue to honor our commitments, the next white house offers them a definite maybe if they pay up. malcolm nance, msnbc contributor and author of the plot to hack america. a former intelligence operative and author of "how to catch a russian spy" and charles pierce, a writer fore esquire magazine. this is what they did. let me give you the foreign policy magazine's list. it said the following, that trump alternatively forgiven then defended russia's invasion

of crimea, he spoke cavalierly about the use of nuclear weapons, embrace the use of torture in the violation of international law against it. suggest that he would ignore america's treaty operations and more than conditionably support allies in need and play into the hands of terrorist with his fear mongering and his sweeping vilify indicativille any indication. >> relations with russia worries me quite a bit. relations with russia, if it goes well, it actually is dangerous because vladimir putin and donald trump may make a plan that's not going to benefit the world. and if it goes badly there,'s nuclear threat that has been planning on both sides also can come into fruition and that's another very dangerous thing for the world.

>> in a friendly relationship between vladimir putin and donald trump, who's in charge. >> i think for now, it seems that putin may be in charge, but knowing donald trump, i believe that that will not last long so that can actually bring the relationship to a nonfriendlier are because both of them will try to show that they're the ones who rule the world, they're the ones who control the world. and that is also as i said a very dangerous proposition and probably a very likely proposition, that the honeymoon, if there is a honeymoon is not going to last for long. >> malcolm nance, what worry you the most. >> it's a toss up and one of them you didn't have in your list, the first is the tearing up of the iran nuclear deal, if that is actually torn up and not modified, if it's just actually thrown into the burn bag, then what you have is possibly a jump-start of the iranian nuclear weapons program, which we stopped at a period of about 9 months from breakout. it's possible they could have

one to five pounds of fissile material stowed away. if that happens, you could see israel viewing themselves as at risk and the only way israel would be able to dig that weapons program out is by nuking it itself. theoretically you could go from piece to atomic explosions in 24 months. that's number one. on the other side, if the united states moves its embassy out of tel aviv and jerusalem. >> what scares you most? >> it's a tough one to follow. i'll be a little bit of a contrarian here. when it comes to tough relations, the other side has a vote in this, it's not just iran and russia that scares me, it's iran, russia and china.

those countries are going to remain our peer adversaries for the near future. so i look at this and say the way that we're going to figure out what happens next, trump running the campaign had no foreign policy, nothing that any of us could point to us definitively and say this is a policy, it sound ud more like campaign rhetoric. it's going to be who she chooses as secretary of state and secretary of defense. i'm concerned about putting general flynn in the cabinet because there's pictures of him having lunch with vladimir putin. it not just going to be just russia, it's going to be those two other countries and we have to protect our national interests. >> john bolton, who thought the u.n. could use a few fewer floors, walid farris who was just mentioned by malcolm, rudy

giuliani, these are establishment people. what are the things that concerns you most it about a trump presidency, foreign policy wise? >> i defr to the -- what concer most is inexperience and naivete. apparently the strategy for draining the swamp is to put all the snakes in charge. >> apparently so. i want to go and talk a little bit more about the russia piece. the balance of power between the u.s. and the kremlin, the kremlin has been folking these populist movements around the world. we learn from heat street that there apparently, at least a report session that the fbi may have been granted a fisa warrant covering ties to russia. so you do have the federal government potentially looking into it. if there are members of donald

trump's inner circle, people like carter page, people like paul manafort who have close ties to russia, and maybe even the russian hacking operations, some say we'll have peace if they're friends. >> americans should worry about, it's not just with russia, it's anybody that tries to hack the american political system is obviously something to worry about. also i have to say that there have been reports from the fbi, but there's also been great reports disputing the very notion and then just a suggestion by the fbi. and i must say from my point of view, america goes a little bit crazy when russia is heart. russia always goes first on the list, and the danger is not who had dinner with vladimir putin, but the danger could be on the other side, if john bolton becomes secretary of state as was promised, then the relationship with russia, how are they going to square that out? because john bolton is not going

to have good relations with the russian foreign minister. so the squabbling in the white house in regard to russia and maybe in relation to other countries or other foreign policy agendas could also become very dangerous. because if there's a disparity between who wants to do what, then the world hangs in the balance. >> and trump supporters realize that walid farris and john bolton are neocons. they're going to be in the trump white house. i want to talk to you specifically about that fisa warrant question, who are known to also be trumpists right, and the other site saying there is an active investigation, where do you come down on that? >> it's worth saying again, the fbi is sort of split into two silos, one is the traditional gum shoe criminal part and the other is the director of

intelligence, that runs not necessarily investigations but frankly intelligence operations, i worked for three years in that counter intelligence side, essentially as an asset, so i'm very, very intimately familiar with it. intelligence operations are not designed to build criminal charges but rather to disrupt a foreign entity's ability to gather intelligence and run operations. that part of it, though, i think, look, not only i think, i know it's going to continue on in the sense that the fbi counter intelligence squad has a russian squad in new york and they focus on russia and that's not going to change. the question is are we going to see charges that are brought against people that may have had connections to trump. joy, i have no doubt that wikileaks was a russian intelligence warfare operation, some cyber, warfare operation. now that trump is the president-elect, the russians only care about s sewing

disconnect. i think you're going to see that propaganda, that information warfare operations continue on and it was successful and it may very well turn on donald trump. trump may be surprised to see the russians come after trump. >> malcolm, which brings me to the premise i put forward at the top of the show, which is now that angela merkel becomes a really important figure. you have the prime minister of the uk, but angela merkel, this was message to trump. jirn and america are connected by values of democracy, freedom and respect. i offer the next president of the united states close cooperation on the basis of these values. sort of a little bit of shade in that statement. but doesn't angela merkel, who's now the anti-putin, clearly opposed to what putin is trying to do in europe, not us, she is, how important does she become to the world's stability? >> right now, technically in

terms of human rights and values that the united states has stood for in this city that i actually drafted those rights in. she essentially becomes the true leader of the free world. she is not espousing that we commit war crimes, she is not espousing that we should turn over policy to russia or that we should disband the greatest treaty organization in the last 50 years. on the other hand, germany is having it's elections in 2017, and she is going to be subject to the same cyber warfare operations we just suffered. so she may find everything she has ever said suddenly released through wikileaks and bring in -- russia carried out the single most -- they have managed to turn governments over which would never have considered these things.

starting with the government of the united states. and i think this heralds deep, deep counter intelligence investigation. >> and not to mention france, it has its elections coming up too. >> if you watch russia today, which you probably don't, but i do. it has stories now, brexit, trump is only the beginning and angela merkel is facing elections and france is facing elections and it would be the same right wing populist and the west will join the club, this is something to consider, because russians are pushing into that direction. and angela merkel wasn't that important, she was the one who tried to explain to putin that he's much better in the civil e i ized nation camp. and now jemp claims that it's --

where everybody else gave up, now germany is the new west, its finally overcame the world war ii, its sort of bad reputation, but now it's going to lead the world. >> how awkward is it that the country that dealt with naziism is now the country that we're all looking to with hope that has a woman president, free college and is being looked at as the leader of the free world why we knneo naziism? >> i think that what troubles me most about the -- well, i mean, this is a measured choice at this point. but what troubles me most at this moment is watching, you know, really decent people led astray, and i know that sounds like cold war propaganda, but that's what's happening.

a lot of people who voted for donald trump because he's going to shape things up and he has my back is going to find out he really doesn't. i don't know what's going to happen after that in terms of anger aing and frustration. >> we will definitely be keeping our eyes on it and watch it unfold. elections have consequences, folks. up next, it's not just donald trump himself, but also the people he surrounds himself with. we could be facing law and order rudy giuliani as attorney general. think about that while you watch this commercial. let me talk to you about retirement. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. -sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? -i would. -i would indeed. well, let's be clear, here. i'm actually a deejay. ♪ [ laughing ] no way!

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do you have it in you to where attorney general. >> there's certainly nobody that knows the justice department better than me. >> former new york mayor rudy giuliani is under consideration for the attorney general gig, along with governor chris christie, who's been replaced by mike pence as trump's transition effort. the office served by loretta lynch, a role that could be dramatical lally diminished who called for a broad expansion of stop and frisk. joining me is vince warren of the center for constitutional rights. thank you for being here. let's talk law and order for just a moment. i'm going to start with you, my

friend. let's listen to donald trump at hofstra university, this was the first debate back in september. take a listen. >> we have to bring back law and order. now whether or not in a place like chicago you do stop and frisk, which worked very well, mayor giuliani is here, former mayor of new york, stop and frisk brought the crime rate way down. we have gangs roaming the streets and in many cases they're here illegally, they're illegal immigrants and they're here and they shoot people. >> the stop and frisk, did it work here? did it reduce crime? did it make black people feel safer? >> that was just a series of falsehoods, saying that stop and frisk did something to lower the crime rate. it brought lawsuits along with our partners at ccr and a

district court, a federal court judge held that these policies were discriminatory, that they did not in fact improve the quality of life and were intended to target minorities. there's no way that we should roll back the clock and try to resurrect policies that have been harmful, that have been f divisive -- >> i have lived under ry giuliani as mayor of new york. you have experienced rudy giuliani first hand. what do you think he will -- running, overseeing the civil rights division of the justice department and combining him with bringing backstop and frisk nationally? >> it's a horrifying prospect. i cannot think of anybody more ill suited to do that job than

rudy giuliani. one of the things we're seeing in our society is that communities are being criminalized, so you have african-americans being considered criminals and muslims who are consider eed terroristso we have to shift from on idea of criminalization to an idea of community protection. and that's been a job of the civil rights department. he is the last person on the planet that would want to do that, would be capable of doing that and it's a horrifying prospect. >> again, to live in new york under mayor giuliani was to be terrified if you were a person of color to feel hunted by the police. so if you're not from new york and you don't know who this person is and you think he's just mr. 9/11, i want you to listen to him himself, and i was sitting on the desk here at msnbc when he said this, when he was asked a qstion by our colleague chris matthews about trump winning, this is the first

thought that came to rudy giuliani's mind on election night. >> this is like andrew jackson's victory, that is the people beating the establishment. the people are rising up against a government they find to be objectionable. >> heather, referencing andrew jackson. your thoughts? >> making america precivil war, again. i mean, really, we have weaponized the idea of white fear through this election. and rudy giuliani is some ways is a really strong personification of that idea, that he's called black lives matter as a movement is inherently racist. we know in the broad -- the

shift of having a department of justice that's going to investigate widespread misconduct by police departments like those in ferguson and those in baltimore, it's a risk that we run that someone who could be put in that position to uphold the civil rights and liberties of the people of this nation is someone with a terrible record of police brutality. we have stories of people beira with toilet plungers. this is visceral, and it's something that we have to take a step back and say wait a second, nobody actually is saying that this is the way our country should move forward. but there isn't actually this broad mandate for a return to the dark days of the police force of giuliani's new york and the dark days of giuliani's new

york. it's one thing to be a commentator on the news, but it's not thing to put this person from the past to put in charge of our nation's laws. >> the other person who's being thought of for the job, david clarke. this is a tweet he put out, it's incredible that our institutions of government, white house, congress, doj and big media. and this is his new attitude towards protest on friday when feel who are scared of the trumpists who are beating up gay people and hispanics and threatening people and scaring children, he said these riots are not protests and should be quelled quickly, these goon and an arkists. this is someone who died in his jail. your thoughts on him potentially

becoming homeland security director. >> it's hard to process all of the horrible things that people are saying. i would say this. in any attorney general that looks at the right to protest a and the way is that people are pushing back against police brutality and pushing back against racism and sees that as a threat to the rule of law and order is someone we have no business employing in our government. the first amendment and our right to protest as humans and as african-americans is key and it has to be upheld and we cannot have anybody in here that can step on that. >> last before we go, the police officer who choked and killed eric garner, thinking that he may get a reprieve. >> we simply cannot allow that to happen. this is significant shift, but we still need to hold anyone who is a new president-elect to

enforce these laws, the department of justice has a duty, it's the most prominent agency to enforce the rule of law. it's high time we call these statement what is they r this is a direct appeal to white tribalism, this is not a vote for change, this was a vote for status quo and white privilege. the 75% of african-americans who did not support donald trump, it is our duty to come out and make sure we hold this administration as accountable as any other. we must remained offended, we must remain outraged and oppositional to the absolutely degenerative policies that he's trying to put forward. >> go not go home and hide under your pillow and be depressed. there's a lot that we have to remain vigilant about. mpb

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try doctor-recommended gaviscon. now that fedex has helped us we could focus on bigger issues, like our passive aggressive environment. we're not passive aggressive. hey, hey, hey, there are no bad suggestions here... no matter how lame they are. well said, ann. i've always admired how you just say what's in your head, without thinking. very brave. good point ted. you're living proof that looks aren't everything. thank you. welcome. so, fedex helped simplify our e-commerce business and this is not a passive aggressive environment.

i just wanted to say, you guys are doing a great job. what's that supposed to mean? fedex. helping small business simplify e-commerce. raise your hand if you voted for president obama in 2008. raise your hand if you voted for president obama in 2012. raise your hand if you trust donald trump to turn this around. >> i'm thinking about it. >> what are you thinking about? >> i don't trust hillary. >> many of the same rust belt white working class voter who is proudly chose hope and change in 2008 and then picked four more years with the nation's first black president in 2012, those voters on tuesday, many of them

voted for donald trump. in wisconsin, 54% of white voters chose obama in 2008. on tuesday, only 42% voted for the democrat. the same voting pattern was amplified in ohio. pennsylvania saw virtually the same trend and so did michigan. joining me now to help explain the rust belt shift from obama to donald trump is filmmaker michael moore and robert p. jones of the public relations institute. michael, you're one of the few people that called this election. we were on real time together when you said donald trump was going to win. this was months ago and nobody believed it. i think part of the reason that it was covered in the media was that we didn't think it was going to happen. so why did it happen? >> it happened because, well, for a number of reasons, but nobody took trump seriously. nobody i should say in the media and the elites. i think a lot of people of color took him seriously, i think a lot of immigrants took him

seriously. and because i live in michigan i took him seriously because i saw what was going on. and because i'm his demographic, i'm an angry white guy over the age of 35 who only has a high school education, that's me. so these are my friends. and they voted for obama the last two times and i'm like what are you doing talking about voting for trump. they're so angry and upset at the fact that they know they're never going back into the middle class, the jobs they used to v they used to dream of their kids going to college, they used to think about life would be a bit better than their parents had. and none of that was going to happen. and they don't like trump, they really don't like donald trump, but they love the fact that he would be their human molotov cocktail that they could throw into the system and blow it up. because that's what he said he would do, he's going to blow up the system. i said don't you understand the

fact that he's not going to do any of these things he says he's going to do? he has his own ideology, and it's the ideology of donald germaj. donald trump, that's what he believes in. and being right, joy, gives me zero pleasure because as i said on your show last wreak, never have i wanted to be proven more wrong and i asked people to make me wrong. but i have been calling this the brexit states back in june. i was actually in the uk the week before the brexit vote. i saw what was going on, i saw the similarities. wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan and ohio is our brexit states, i said he is going to manipulate the white working class to come out and vote for him and he pulled it off. for the last few days, i have been with people not in shock, not surprised, but begin, here we are.

so now it's like, i'm also not depressed because we have got -- i'm leavingsi here to go march trump tower. >> i want to go through some numbers really quickly with you, robbie, because you talked about those brexit states. wisconsin, white voters in 2008 went 54% to 45% for obama. this time it was reversed. it was 42% for hillary clinton. you go to ohio, same thing, complete reversal. you had donald trump win 61% of the white vote in ohio whereas barack obama managed to get 46% in 2008. and a majority in 2012. you go to white voters in pennsylvania, where you had 56% going for donald trump this time, up from 51% in '08. same thing in michigan. let's go to some of these other numbers. union verse nonunion.

hillary clinton won the overall union vote, she won at 51% to 43%. but nonunion households went for donald trump 59% to 46%. one of the things i got wrong in this, i figured white working class voters, you could see they were going for trump. that was really obvious. what i think surprised a lot of the polling firms and a lot of us in media, was that white college educated voters went more for donald trump than was expected. how do you explain that? >> one of the things we don't see in the polling that got a lot of play, actually if you look at the demographics of the trump supporters, they weren't all angry white men. he was making real enroads among white college educated incomes. not lower class incomes. i have called this election the white nostalgia election, really

this election is about a kind of vision of the world, and i think an easy way to think about it is are we a 1950ser a 2050 electorate. and it has an economic base that mike was talking about. and this economic base that was there in the 1950s that was there before is that has completely eroded. but is this kind of demographic and cultural piece, and i think there's a real danger purely for progressives to overplay the economics and underplay the cultural piece of this. i think that's vitally, vitally important. when obama boobarack obama was thavls the same year we -- and adjust during barack obama's presidency, we have gone from being a majority white christian nation to a minority white christian nation, so when we asked people do you think -- as american culture and way of life

changed for the better, changed for the worse, that's a cultural question. we had 2/3 of democrats saying it's changed for the better. and we have with 2/3 of republicans saying it's changed for the worse, and that's including three-quarters of white evachb jengelical voters. so i think the real answer to how did donald trump hold together from michigan to mississippi, pennsylvania to mississippi. it is this economic engine, the culture really playing this other extra turbocharging role to end this election. >> and you have been talking about this a lot, it's not just economics, because people with money, they just culturally had a tissue rejection against the current sort of broad cultural changes. >> we have been saying this, you just simply cannot separate race and class. the way we as human beings understand our place in the world is tied up in both of those things, our sense of

identity, our relative worth and status, and how much actual economic freedom we have. and in america, politically, those things have been so co-determined. and it's very -- we did a video actually with move on, called you can't fix economic inequality without talking about race. at the same time when michael moore talks about the sort of loss of the decent good job and the sort of whole package of being able to send your kids to college, have a great job on a high school degree, have retirement security, that has been shipped away over the past 40 years because of trickle down economic policies that were sold to white voters. >> and trump ask going to give the biggest tax cut, if he gets his way, he's going to give the biggest tax cut in history, he's going to end the estate tax. he has no intention of delivering on his campaign promises. and they do want a new economic

order, there are electoral consequences to economic inequality. >> i'm struck, michael moore by a quote in a "new york times" article about carier steel, donald trump talked about carrier moves to mexico. and there was a woman named nicole, who talked about this promise that trump made about stopping this company from taking these jobs. nicole hargrove who's worked at carrier for a decade and a half. why didn't the democrats run a single ad that talked about the fact that donald trump used chinese steel in all of his building s and not ohio's. >> because the democrats vote much better than the republicans. are corporate it ises, they believe in corporate america,

obama's number one contributor in 2008 was goldman sachs. all the money that clinton took, i love obama and i'm going to miss him immensely. what is really important to me, whether it's white working class, or white college educated. white people who voted for obama twice and then voted for trump. white people, no matter what the pain they're in, have a responsibility to reject anybody who stands in front of a camera and spews racism, who spews, sexism, misogyny, who brags about being a sexual predator. i don't care what your race is, but especially live if yif you'

you have a special responsibility as a white person to always reject anybody who uses racism, who spew this is hatred, and it's like i think there will be a regret like with brexit in england, that people will wake up, maybe in a week, maybe tomorrow, maybe not at all. it's not going -- i can't imagine, i mean, i'm white. what's this feel like this morning? if you're not? you know, i -- i mean, seriously, white people who are listening to this, have an extra duty and responsibility now to stand in front, to stand in front of any abuse or attack on people of color, on immigrants, a special responsibility. do not call yourself a christian if you are not willing,

literally to put your body in front of whoever is coming to hurt the other. the people who are not you. >> unfortunately, we are out of time. i just want to thank robbie, i want to thank, heather, by really want to thank you michael moore for what you have done and what you have suede. said. i'm going to give you my safety pin. >> thank you so much. >> michael moore, i appreciate you, man. >> everybody should wear one of these. >> i appreciate you so much, man, thank you. >> thank you. >> when we come bark, we want to hear from you guys, we asked our terrific viewers what questions you would want to ask and let you get off your chest what you feel. we have some terrific questions, that is coming up when we come back on "a.m. joy."

how could this have happened? ever since donald trump's victory on tuesday the question has plagued progressives

everywhere. now even more questions are bubbling up from an angry electorate including some of our viewers. we will try to answer some of those right now. we are back with heather mcgee, and we asked michael moore to stick around and he said he would do it. you guys sent in terrific questions. i want to start with karen, karen had a question about white women voters and hillary clinton. let's play karen. >> hey, joy, it's karen. i'm a 55-year-old pant suit nation hillary supporter from arizona. i am just baffled with what happened with white women, college educated women, in this election. i'd love to hear your take on what is this fear, misogyny, demographics, policy? how did so many white college educated women decide to vote not for hillary? >> i'm going to throw that one to you, michael.

college educated white women. what happened? >> why didn't they like hillary is my question. >> yeah. >> and let's just say historically it's not unusual to see group -- people who are in the oppressed group and we have to say that the majority gender because they only hold 20% of the power is in that group -- i don't want to finish the sentence, it's too painful. you know what i'm saying. it's that you don't understand that against each other. you know, if you read the history -- go back, martin luther king, it was very difficult for him and for the young civil rights people at that time in the fight that they had with the older members -- >> the black people, sure. >> -- of the civil rights movement and who were telling them you can't break the law, you can't sit in, you can't do this. maybe this is going to be a generational shift where the millennials are going to fix

this for us. >> so white women overall did go for donald trump by 10 points, which is shocking, but there was that same college educated divide that white college educated women, many, went for donald trump but overall hillary did win them. in fact, my colleague has this great piece online now which talks about how white college educated -- or college educated women overall are some of the only people who have actually really had clear progress over this past generation of the inequality era and white working class women without a college degree they are the ones who are becoming the sole bread winners as the factory jobs are gone where their husbands and partners are not able to work. that is a very real economic reality, but it's where race trumped gender. >> trumped gender. >> it's pretty -- >> pretty scary. let's go to question three. this is a request he from barry and barry has a question i think i probably have more of this on my twitter feed than anything else. i'm reading barry's question,

this was from facebook. sorry. it says: are there restrictions on who electors can vote for? there is no constitutional profession or federal law that requires electors to vote in regards to the popular vote in the united states. does anybody have answer and for that. our system is we get to do a popular vote and that's just a suggestion. do could the electors in theory rebel and vote for who won the popular vote? >> for the second time now a republican has won the electoral college without winning the popular vote in my own lifetime and the electoral college itself was a racist institution that was brought about as a compromise with slave holder states in the rural population and it is yet again sort of stopping the will of the people from being expressed. now, we also have a democratic norm which are actually probably more controlling than the law right now when hillary clinton came out and conceded, when the president said, you know, this

is now the time for peaceful transition of power, that stopped it more than any actual law that would say that we couldn't just be as, you know, kind of break with this tradition that frankly is born out of one of our ugliest traditions. >> absolutely. navit, you were goingo jump in. >> i don't know the specific state by state, but i knew washington state where i live the fine for an electoral representative for not voting in the popular vote is i believe $1,000. so there is an actual law on the books, but it's, you know -- it's not something that's -- it's not something -- you are not going to end up in jail for not voting in the popular jail. >> there is a quicker way than getting a constitutional amendment, enough states have passed laws saying that their electric torse are to go with whoever wins the popular win, it was 168 electoral votes right now have been committed and in maryland i think joined them yesterday, that's another ten, that's 178 of the 270 we need of enough states who people can pressure their state legislature to vote to say that this has to

happen, whoever wins the popular vote wins the election. >> that is another reason to vote in statewide elections. let's play amanda. amanda has a question i think is poignant that we should play, this is amanda's question she sent us on twitter. >> -- keep telling us what do we tell our kids. some kids there is nothing you can tell. what do you tell them when they are going to be afraid every day they might lose a parent? what can you say to those kids? >> malcolm, what do you think? what should people be telling kids that are afraid of deportation? >> gosh, to be quite honest i don't know what you would tell them other than, you know, i'm in philadelphia, i'm in the birthplace of american liberty and the values which were written down in this city just five blocks from me right now are what holds this nation together. and my fear for her and for her children is have we just walked away from all of those values?

you know, are we teetering towards fascism? i don't know. but you have to stand up, you have to let your voice be heard and if you feel opposed to something, be opposed to it. be a patriot. and there are true patriots out there are the people who question everything, but, you know, we just had this election, more people voted for one side and you have to stand up and hold your ground. don't walk away from this. >> absolutely. i want to thank all those who sent in questions, we had really great questions, we have such smart viewers. thank you, heather mcgee, michael moore, we will have have you all back. that is our show for today. .sure to join us at 10:00 a.m. eastern for more "a.m. joy." up next alex witt takes a look at the growing protests against donald trump, including a large demonstration about to start in new york that michael moore is heading over to as soon as he leaves the set. >> to the streets.

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