economic cooperation summit this weekend. >> that's going to do it for us this morning, i'm betty nguyen alongside ali velshi and louis burgdorf. "morning joe" starts right now. >> a few weeks ago i went to the white house for a party. it was the first time i had been there in many years and was very exciting. and b.e.t. sponsored the party so everyone there was black. and it was beautiful. i walked through the gates. i'm from washington. so i saw the bus stop or corner where the bus stop used to be where i used to catch the bus to school and dream about nights like tonight. it was really, really beautiful night. at the end of the night everyone went into the west wing of the white house and there was a huge party. and everybody in there was black except for bradley cooper for some reason.

and on the walls were pictures of the presidents of the past. i looked at that room and i saw all those black faces and bradley and i saw -- and i saw how happy everybody was. these people who have been historically disenfranchised and it made me feel hopeful and proud to be an american and it made me very happy about the prospects of our country. so in that spirit, i'm wishing donald trump luck and i'm going to give him a chance, and we, the historically disenfranchised demand that he give us one too. thank you very much. [ applause ] >> good monday morning to you. it's november 14th. welcome to "morning joe." >> what was bradley cooper down there? >> for some reason that was so funny. >> why was he there?

>> because he's always -- >> he's just always around. >> with us on set we have former treasury official steve rattner. msnbc political analyst and former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> what happened? what happened? >> our offense stayed in the locker room. we just didn't get it going. >> first time since 1985 the number two, number three, number four teams all lost in the top five. >> makes you sad. >> it really doesn't matter. >> you are on top of a mountain. if you are alabama and what's -- is anybody down there? >> we still control our destiny. >> richard haass is with us. and in nashville, tennessee, pulitzer prize winning historian john meachem. here's some of what the

president-elect told "60 minutes" beginning with how he reacted to the magnitude of the night. >> i heard you went completely silent. was it sort of the realization of the enormity of this for you? >> it's enormous. i've done a lot of big things. i've never con anything like this. it is so big. it is so enormous. it's so amazing. >> kind of took your breath away? couldn't talk? >> a little bit. i think i realized that this is a whole different life for me now. >> do you think that your recollection is a repudiation of his presidency? >> no. i think it's a moment in time where politicians for a long period of time have let people

down. they've let them down on the job front. they even let them down in terms of the war front. we've been fighting this war for 15 years. >> this was the message of your campaign. >> we spent $6 trillion in the middle east. we could have rebuilt our country twice. you look at our roads and our bridges and our tunnels and our airports that are like obsolete. it was a repudiation over what's taken place over a long period of time. >> it's hard for the weight of the office, the weight of the responsibilities not to bear down on anybody. you saw it there that donald trump felt it even election night. he went completely silent. >> yeah. it's the opposite of what bob dole when he called george mcgovern and said when does it stop hurting and mcgovern said,

i'll let you know. all president-elects have a moment where it's usually national security questions and there's also going to be some moment in the spring probably where in a tactile sense it becomes clear. that happened with president kennedy in the bay of pigs. we just hope that we don't have to have a crisis before the enormity becomes clear. >> richard haass, donald trump in that interview with leslie and other private conversations he's had since the election is making it very clear that he's going to change u.s. foreign policy, and the very things that foreign policy establishment was concerned about were entrenchment, america leading from behind. he's actually going to pursue even more aggressively, you just heard him there talking about wasting $6 trillion on foreign wars. we should have invested that

back in the country. very skeptical about any further action in syria or iraq. he believes we should leave that country to assad. it's going to be a dramatic -- if you just look at -- he's not even hinting. you don't have to read tea leaves. donald trump is an american first. comes from the american first category. he is not going to be doing what we've been doing for the past 15 years apparently. >> there's always a balance to use a cliche between guns and butter. obviously the balance is going to shift in the direction of butter. a greater domestic focus. we've seen one thing, joe, which is trade. for a century, u.s. trade policy and openness to free trade has been a tenant for democrats and republicans. that's essentially gone. >> tpp is dead down. it's not even on life support. >> that's dead. and the challenge is going to be that we can't thrive domestically in a world that unravels. so getting this balance right.

even if you want to have things do better at home, we can't do better at home if things do badly abroad. >> what happened with the markets? i just saw coming in here last week a record high for the dow and also they had their best week -- dow had its best week since 2011 on a trump rally. what are the markets responding to positively? what are they hearing? >> the markets woke up and realized that the trump plan that we'll talk more about later is basically an expansionary fiscal policy. a lot of tax cuts. try to get the economy going again. not spend a lot of money but give money back in tax breaks and fundamentally change the regulatory atmosphere on business. >> all pro-business. >> incredibly pro-business. what you saw happen was interest rates went up but markets rallied because they think profits will go up. the only thing i'll say because you brought up guns versus butter analogy. he does want to increase defense

spending. >> we've been talking about this for a long time. we'll talk about protests and unrest and everything. >> and top names picked for top positions. >> but you already look at the first big bill. it sounds like a democratic bill when you talk about this massive infrastructure plan that he and schumer and pelosi have already been talking about. it seems like the whole ideological board is going to be completely tossed around where you've got a republican that doesn't want to be as aggressive across the globe and it wants to spend money on infrastructure. >> you know, i think he's going to be a situational democratic/republican. during the campaign in the final days when it was announced there was a big merger between time

warner and at&t, he said he was opposed to that and would be suspicious of big business and big deals like that yet to steve's point there's going to be a change in regulatory climate which obviously gives some comfort to the markets. it's hard to say where he will come down. listening to him on "60 minutes" indicating he wanted to keep pre-existing condition component to the health care bill which if you listen to most republicans and even some democrats who have concerns about affordable care act, their concern is that 26 year olds should not be able to stay on for free. you want 22 to 26 year olds who are healthy to contribute more because that will allow the program to survive and to thrive. he'll be a situational kind of guy. one thing we've seen in the last day or two, my pastor said we know more about what he's against than what he's for. we're learning more about what he's for. these names he's chosen for the white house they show his balance. he shows an establishment in the

republican democratic party and more in chairman of the party being chief of staff. it's curious. >> you talked eight years ago about how you said barack obama was conservative with a small c. conservative the way buckley said looks at the world as it is and not as we want it to be. you look at donald trump and you look at infrastructure, he's talking about big infrastructure plan with schumer and pelosi. he's talking about bringing our troops back home and ending 15 years of war. and then on obamacare -- again, these are three things republicans are going to hate which i've been telling people for a very long time, he's just not going to be ideological, the third thing is obamacare. not only that he'll keep pre-existing but that children can stay on it, but he's also saying he's not going to repeal it until there's a plan to replace it because he doesn't

want anybody to be off health care coverage for a day. that suggests at least in that case again somebody that is a conservative with a small c. >> the great question, which we also saw in the campaign, not day-to-day but half hour to half hour is going to be the tension between his showmanship and stability, right? how much -- how radical is he? how much does his rhetoric actually track with what he wants to do in terms of reality? does he even know is a good question. sometimes you get the impression and someone pointed this out during the campaign where he would read a speech on the teleprompter and stop and say so true as if he just read it for the first time. i have a feeling that -- >> he doesn't like the teleprompter, you know. >> last night he says -- this goes to your question, he said

well marriage equality has been ruled on. that's settled. but roe v. wade should be overturned. so where is the consistency there? >> if you notice, and i was speaking of the same thing you did, marriage equality is settled. leave it alone. then they asked about roe v. wade. will you overturn roe v. wade? he would not say it. he would not say it. i don't believe. i will overturn roe v. wade. he said i'll appoint pro-life judges, which i know for activists that's nuanced but i don't really think -- >> his position on roe v. wade, let it go back to the states. if states want to allow abortion, fine. >> he also said women could go to other states, which is horrific for people where this issue matters. i'm just saying that it is a difference between, let's say,

what type of justice scalia was and what kind of justice john roberts is. john roberts isn't going to jump from here to there. it's going to be a very long slow march. >> you said something that's exactly right. it's going to be very hard to pigeon hole. >> he doesn't see himself as a republican. >> it's going to take specific policy, foreign policy, economic policy that he embraced and even the appointments show a range rather than a narrow ideological or philosophical embrace. this is going to be much more across the board. >> i think of the contact we've seen of him of late, this is the most accurate and measured conversation i've seen all weekend. i didn't expect it. i mean all weekend long i've been on the phone with people,

many of them really powerful, most of them hysterical. i don't know if i can say this. many of them republicans. >> hysterical and making the same mistake that people have now made twice about donald trump. he cannot win the primary. and they give him 1% chance. what do they do? i'm sorry. i got to say it. i said this from the beginning. ronald reagan feasted on the low expectations of his rivals. there were piles of political bones at ronald reagan's feet from people that underestimated him. they did it to donald trump during the primary. they did it to donald trump during the general election. nobody in the media learned their lesson. nobody. they're doing it again. you paint a sticker on his forehead, you call him a nazi, you're going to set expectations so low that he's going to beat you again. it's just going to happen. and it seems to me that there

has to be some nuance. oprah winfrey came out last week and said he won. let's give him a chance. she was attacked viciously online. i wonder what dave's response was just by saying what -- this is everybody take a deep breath. hope lives. barack obama said give him a chance. hillary clinton said give him a chance. all of these people say give him a chance. remain vigilant. i understand that. >> here's my question. at the end of the day when you go through some of the issues we just talked about and go through trump's policies, what is there in what he is saying he is going to do that is actually going to fix the problems with the people who elected him, the people at the base? >> you know what, this is what democracy is about. it elects george w. bush for eight years and then elects barack obama for eight years and switches to donald trump. if donald trump doesn't do what

he says he's going to do, he loses wisconsin, he loses michigan, he loses pennsylvania. he loses the white house. >> what i'm saying is what he says he's going to do not simply i'm going to fix everything but when you look at his specific policy, we'll talk about taxes later, it isn't going to solve the problem. >> this is the conversation that america needs to have. don't call him a nazi. just say his plans aren't going to help the people that he's going to help and then you aren't setting the bar so low. >> and that is what i will show you a little later. >> i'm looking forward to it. >> what i'll show you right now is the protests over the weekend against president-elect donald trump continued across the country as the man they say isn't their president looked to address the anger over the election. many immigrants took to the streets to rally against trump's campaign support of deportations. thousands of protesters marched up the city's busy fifth avenue one day after an estimated 25,000 marched to trump tower.

it was a similar scene in los angeles on saturday where an estimated 8,000 people marched through the streets. in portland, oregon, hundreds of protesters gathered in downtown last night following initial violence in that city. the latest demonstration was much more peaceful. >> i think there was a shooting the other night at one of them. >> there was heavy presence of armored police officers. meanwhile, donald trump's former campaign manager kellyanne conway said it's up to president obama and secretary clinton to put a stop to these demonstrations. and trump himself addressed the rallies against him during his interview with "60 minutes." >> if the shoe was on the other foot and hillary clinton had won which is what the media were expecting if not hoping for, we know that that if there were two donald trump protesters somewhere, people would feek out that his supporters were not accepting election results. it's time really for president obama and secretary clinton to

say to these protesters, this man is our president. >> there are people, americans, who are scared and some of them are demonstrating right now. demonstrating against you, against your rhetoric. >> that's only because they don't know me. i really believe that. >> they listened to you in the campaign. >> i just don't think they know me. >> what do you think they're demonstrating against? >> i think in some cases you have professional protesters, and we had it -- if you look at wikileaks -- >> you think those people down there are -- >> leslie -- >> -- are professional? when they demonstrate you and there are signs out there, don't you say to yourself, i guess you don't, you know, do i have to worry about this? do i have to go out and assuage them. do have i to tell them not to be afraid? they're afraid. >> i would tell them don't be

afraid. >> amid anxiety over reports, president-elect trump had a message for those that would harass their fellow americans. >> i'm very surprised to hear that. i hate to hear that. i mean, i hate to hear that. >> you do hear it. >> i don't hear it. i saw one or two instances. i think it's a very small amount. >> do you want to say anything to those people? >> i would say don't do it. that's terrible. i'm going to bring this country together. >> they're harassing latinos, muslims. >> i am so saddened to hear that. i say stop it. if it helps, i will say this, and i'll say it right to the cameras. stop it. >> reported violence in the week since election day has not all been one sided. in connecticut on saturday, two men were arrested after they allegedly attacked a man who was having an american flag holding

a trump sign according to police. and in new york city, a 24-year-old man wearing a make america great hat again was choked on his subway ride home from work last friday. and then a chilling phrase trended on twitter. i can't even say it. and that's what we're dealing with it. >> there was a phrase that we can't even say. it was taken outside of the president-elect's new hotel in washington about violence against his wife. online conversation about the photo actually caused the phrase to list under twitter's trending topics. >> it was the criticism of that phrase that caused it to trend. >> that phrase, which is so vile, we can't even say on this air, is a trending topic. i just -- i don't know. i can't believe that twitter

actually put that as a topic. >> they say people were denouncing it and that's how it started to trend. you have to stop falling all over yourself and take something down. i don't know. >> unbelievable. >> that's where we're at. >> harold, you talked before about priebus and bannon to be top advisers what's the significance of donald trump choosing reince priebus as his chief of staff? >> it's just that establishment will have a place at the table. the relationship between the white house and paul ryan which during the campaign seemed shaky at times, if not all together bad, the chairman is very close to paul ryan personally and politically. i think it has to send some signals of we can get along. we can work together to establishment republicans and even to establishment democrats. chuck schumer and other leaders who believe there's something to be done and typical with donald

trump, he picks bannon to be the new role of chief strategist. he says they'll be equal partners that he and chief of staff will be. he'll be a situational president. he's going to look at issues. that's what the first weekend has shown. i understand what kellyanne was saying. they won. there's a greater responsibility on the winner to say let's calm all of this. if there's any rhetoric employed by me during the campaign that mean people think may have caused this, that was not my intention. we want the governor to bring the country together. let's calm this down. we lost this race. the media needs to come out and say that. donald trump said stop it. but he can continue making positive statements along those lines but when you have "the new

york times" causing trump people before the election of having a revolution if trump lose, it's now up to "the new york times" to aggressively condemn the violence and the "riots" which are breaking out across the country if they are so concerned about people accepting the election result, they should tell americans to accept the election results. >> i think president-elect has a responsibility because there's language he used during the campaign and phrases used -- >> they both have responsibilities. we saw it start obviously down in washington with barack obama and the president. it seems that everybody in washington seems that everybody is doing what they should responsibly do. >> the power of the ritual of the democratic process is phenomenal, isn't it? i think won of the most revealing things said all weekend to my mind was what

trump said on "60 minutes" which was because they don't know me. and that's a reminder of the enormous personality component of this entire movement. of this entire election. he now has an obligation to -- he should have said stop it. shouldn't have said that on whatever day they taped it and then waited until it aired. you know, you have -- to whom much is given, much is expected. he's now been given the ultimate power in the world. i think that there are a number of concerns. i want to ask you what you would say to people who are so concerned about bannon and the alt-right influence. >> i was going to ask you. we can have the conversation between us about the different roles. putting reince priebus as chief of staff sends a reassuring message to washington. and this position counselor to president or adviser to the

president seems to be a new one. you know, it's just like barack obama wanted to have valerie jarrett next to him and george w. bush wanted karen hughes next to them and the president that wins, wants the person closest to him during the campaign with him. it's up to donald trump and steve bannon to reassure people in the coming days. it's one of the great ironies. there are always these great ironies in politics. donald trump, we heard throughout the campaign, this is a guy that was going to shower nuclear weapons down from above if given the opportunity actually the biggest problem republicans are going to have is that he is going to be an isolationist and do the opposite. with steve bannon the great irony is from everyone i talked to inside the campaign and i know the campaign pretty well and certainly have over the past month, bannon is actually the one who was preached restraint

to trump over and over and over again over the past month. stay on message. talk policy. don't follow the media down rabbit trails. it's another great irony that the one guy that could keep him focused and in the center during the campaign now has to explain to others that he's not going to be this volatile presence. i think as my first managing partner of the first law firm i worked in always said, i said i want to do this. i want to do that. he said the proof is in the pudding. proof is going to be in the pudding. we know what's happened in the past. what's going to happen moving forward. what's going to happen with steve bannon. what's going to happen with donald trump? i do know this. again from people that are talking through all of these different names that steve bannon has won that i have heard thinks it's important to have

diverse names, diverse voices. but again, the proof is in the pudding. we'll see. >> i will say one thing. harold mentioned it. the idea that these guys are going to be co-equals and he'll be chief strategist. i've never seen that. >> those two different things. >> but that's the point -- >> i know that's what was said. >> fine. >> it was really cute. >> all i want to say is the point i'm making is diverse views, i get the idea of the diverse views -- >> let me ask you this. let's talk management first. you know management. you tell me who had more power, karen hughes talking to the president and being with the president every day or andy card? >> i know where you're going. valerie jarrett versus over -- >> 12 chief of staffs that got fired. >> i will say that white house i had experience with. and that did not function perfectly because of that kind of a situation. you're going to take this where you have people with two different world views and say you're both sort of my senior

advisers. it's going to be very interesting to say the least to watch how they sort that out. >> if all he had was reince priebus around him, he would be a sellout to washington. if all he had was steve bannon around him, he would be a sellout to alt-right or people that they find dangerous. he likes different people around him and saying what's your solution? >> i resisted all of the reagan analogies. here's a question. how long do you think it will take for there to be a cry of let trump be trump? because priebus may be playing a jim baker role and trying to check impulses of trump. that's going to be a drama we'll be seeing i think. >> i don't know. i don't know that anybody will ever say that. we'll see. i don't know that priebus will ever have the power of james baker. could be. >> still ahead on "morning joe,"

an incredible show. the newlyy announced chief of staff reince priebus will join us for a live interview and michael hayden and bob woodward. up next, howard dean wants his old job back chairing the dnc. some party leaders are looking in a different election. we'll talk to the former governor next on "morning joe." what powers the digital world? communication. like centurylink's broadband network that gives 35,000 fans a cutting edge game experience. or the network that keeps a leading hotel chain's guests connected at work, and at play. or the it platform that powers millions of ecards every day for one of the largest greeting card companies. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.

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>> i'm hopeful that hillary will have time for herself. the day after the election she was spotted hiking in the woods near her house and weirdly she had already grown out a full david letterman retirement beard and there are some great historical moments on tuesday. for example, a record number of female minorities were elected to the senate. [ applause ] let's see all their names right now. ♪ this is my >> wait. what? >> as democrats seek a way forward, the president will phone members of the dnc this evening at 5:00. hillary clinton will phone house democrats at the same time. the departure of debbie wasserman-schultz under the cloud of the e-mail hacking scandal left a power vacuum at

the top of the national party. howard dean tweeted his interest to take back his old job and fix the place. over the weekend, former presidential candidate maryland governor and democratic governor association head martin o'malley said that he had been approached by democrats in search of new leadership. in a tweet storm, he posted i'm taking a hard look at dnc chair because i know how badly we need to reform our nominating process. articulate a bold, progressive vision but momentum is increasing behind minnesota congressman keith ellison who supported bernie sanders during the primaries. chuck schumer backs him. and now so does his predecessor, harry reid. elizabeth warren said ellison would make a terrific chair and picked up backing of michael moore over the weekend as well. >> let's bring in the state's former governor and head of the democratic national committee

howard dean. it seems that washington is lining up behind keith ellison. why do you think you would be a better dnc chair for where the party is right now? >> i think keith is terrific. i went door to door with him in his first campaign. you can't do this job if it's not full time. i'm going to be supportive of whoever wins this. i'm interested in it. and i know how to do this. the washington establishment has almost nothing to do with who will runs the democratic national committee. i can personally attest to that. when my team started, we didn't have the house, the senate, or the presidency. when we left four years later with had the house, senate and presidency so, you know, i think i know how to do this. this is not something -- i've already done this once. this is not something i have to do. >> what do you say to democrats when they come up to you and ask what happened?

if you look at the loss of the senate, 11 seats since barack obama became president and the house over 60 seats since barack obama was president, 14 governorships lost since barack obama was president and 900 state legislative seats since barack obama was president. the democratic party, some speculated in the worst shape they've been in since 1922. what's gone wrong? what do you say to dnc members when they say what's gone wrong? >> well, we have to redo some of the things we had before. the 50-straight strateate strat the boards. we can't do that. we have to bring young people along in the pros s s -- proc. minority voters have voted for us but not at the table as much as they should be. one of the things, there are some megatrends going on around

the world. brexit, polish right wing government suppressing the media and hungarian government. the problem is there have been a lot of people left behind by globalization including here in america and we haven't talked to them. those are the donald trump voters. >> harold, what happened? we showed those numbers just really bad numbers over the past eight years. historically bad numbers. 900 legislative seats lost. 60 seats in the house. 11 seats in the senate. what's gone wrong? >> evidently a lot. in this last election, i hear what the governor is saying. i think he can point to a record of success as dnc chair. i think one of the other things and he's right about the full-time position i believe as well. i think that what democrats are missing -- we didn't have an economic message. we don't have a coherent cohesive message. donald trump didn't surround himself with young people. he did not talk about a 50

state -- nothing against what the governor is saying. he had an economic message that appealed to a big part of america that cut across party. if we as democrats don't pay close attention to that, we're going to miss the whole boat here and miss the entire point. there's no doubt we need to -- i don't mean to minimize tactics and understanding the mechanics of campaign. clearly governor dean gets that. the question becomes what direction is this party going to head and what message are we going to rally around? right now there is at a minimum a dearth of that and absence of that as we head into the next couple weeks. >> if you can't put your economic message or you can't put your message on a bumper sticker, it's not going to break through in the chaos of a campaign. democrats right now, what's their message? >> at the risk of violently agreeing, i don't hear people talk about what's the plan to restore upper mobility in this country. it's not just globalization that's the challenge? what will we do to create jobs

when millions and millions of jobs are eliminated here. what's the role of education and retraining in america? that's the sort of stuff people have to speak about. i don't think the answer is just tactics. >> i don't either. howard, are you able to speak to restoring confidence in -- i'm sorry, for it being honest and true to its message and then having one of course? i mean, there were things that happened along the way that i think turned people off more than we truly understood. >> yeah. the answer to that is yes. i agree with the economic message. look, there are two pieces of this. when i was dnc chair before, there was quite a to-do between me and leadership in the house and senate about what the message was. my view is this. we all are going to deliver the message. the house and senate leadership are going to have to deliver the economic message. dnc chair can do that. i think that's important. but it's important for the

policy leaders to do that. what the dnc is about is mechanics. it's about being everywhere. it's about training people up. it's about having an adequate tech system which we no longer apparently have. and it's about enfranchising people in the states to make their own decisions about who runs instead of having them pick candidates who can fund their own campaigns and then can't win because they can't get the message across. that's the problem with the democratic party. mechanics matter. you can have all of the ideals and program you want and i totally agree with harold that's how you move forward. if you don't do mechanics on the ground, you cannot win. >> all right. thank you so much, howard dean. thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. you know, i'm trying to think -- i'm trying to remember what's the worst insult? >> i have just been dissed. >> that is right up there. it doesn't come close.

you were just called richard haass, donny deutch. i am speechless. what have i done to alienate governor dean? >> you better send him a donation for his campaign. >> he says he's sorry. all right. we'll take a look -- >> i'm standing up for donny. you have to send him a donation. >> we'll look at must read opinion pages. remarkable ones over the weekend. retired general michael hayden joins the discussion as well. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

>> troops on the ground? >> i'm not going to say anything. i don't want to tell anybody anything. >> what about the american people? >> we have great generals. we have great generals. >> you said you knew more than the generals about isis? >> to be honest with you, i probably do because look at the job they've done. look at the job they've done. they haven't done the job. >> president-elect doubles down on knowing more than generals do about isis. former cia director michael hayden joins us next on "morning joe."

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>> i showed the front of "the washington post" before. always have the redskins on the front. long suffering fans that they are in washington. the nfl, that's a huge cultural story. nfl is dying. i mean, it's dying because we've all said it. you can't go to the games. if you go to the games, it's like a ten-hour experience. even watching it on tv, it's three plays, a punt and 12 minutes of commercials. >> and five referees to have them stand there with hoods over

their head on whether the out of bounds call was right. i'm going to give you a quick stat from the internet. do you know how long the ball is actually in play during the 3 hours and 12 minutes? 11 minutes. >> we all grew up watching football. we love football. we're from the south. football is a religion. you just don't have that much time. >> nfl is dealing with the college football is such -- always been powerful. even more powerful now. and two, all of the things you said. three, every night there's a game. used to be a scarcity to it. now every night you have thursday, saturday, sunday. i love the fact that -- it seems like there's too much. there's no doubt a lot of parents are worried about some of the injuries and you have more and more injuries. cam newton has been out. he's been in. you have quarterbacks in and out because of injuries. the league -- goodell has a great product but -- >> they are killing the goose that laid the golden leg.

>> do you think it's the length of the game or -- >> i have a general -- >> let me answer and we'll get to the general. it takes too long. the games take too long. insanity. the commercials, it's sickening. you know why i love soccer? they go like this. let's start the game. they press a button and 45 minutes late they go halftime and then they go off for 15 minutes and come back. let's start again. they press a button. it goes 45 minutes. time for tea. it's over. we press the button. game is over. i will tell you this, after watching soccer, after watching "football" it's almost impossible to go back and watch three plays, punt, 12 minutes of commercials. >> ratings for premiere league are down also. >> joining us from washington, former director of the cia and nsa, now a principle at the chertoff group, retired general michael hayden.

thank god for you, general. >> general hayden, now we're going to raise the level of the debate. what do you think about football? what do you think the nfl's problems are? are you a football fan? are you a football fan? >> i'm born and raised in pittsburgh, you bet i'm a football fan. it's not been a good weekend. >> it takes too long, doesn't it? takes too long to watch a game. >> the game has gotten longer overall even though a few years back they shortened halftime from 20 to 12 minutes. >> it's insane. what are you looking for during this transition, general? obviously you had some real concerns about donald trump. what are you looking for in this transition to suggest that it may not be as grim as many republican and democratic foreign policy experts believe. >> i like what jon meacham said earlier, joe, about the power of the ritual and for my tribe, the ritual is getting in front of the president-elect and the vice president-elect and laying out

the world as the intelligence community sees it and challenging precons sepgs cepti incoming team has and having that rich dialogue so that policy going forward is based upon reality and not upon some abstract ideology. >> i found it interesting, general, that unlike past presidents, barack obama had little use for george w. bush. george w. bush had little use for bill clinton. you could go all of the way back to ike having little use for harry truman and vice versa. i was heartened to see both of these men, president obama and president-elect trump getting along as well as they were getting along and seeming to have an impact on each other's thinking. >> that's a very good thing. again, back to the process. we've got a constitutional system. you talked earlier about the demonstrations. i get the free speech. the right to assemble. but the impact of the election matters, and i think we'll get

beyond this pretty quickly and the president-elect is going to have to make some decisions. what does he do about nato? what does he do about iran and the iranian deal? lots of things he's got to decide. we'll see what happens. >> on those issues, who do you hope he reaches out to? >> there's strong foreign policy experience in the republican party and beyond it. a lot of people have signed never trump letters. that was about the election. this is about the man who will be president. so i do hope he widens his circle. he doesn't have to hire these people. but widen the circle so that he hears the richness of views that are available. >> i was going to ask you that question, general. i'm glad you brought up that point. a never trumper wrote a column this weekend in "the new york times" saying i was against this guy from the very beginning but now it is our responsibility to

serve him. do you send that same message out to the never trumpers and people that signed letters with you that if the president or president's team calls, you should at least speak to them and even consider serving? >> i think the people who signed the letter have a duty to the president-elect, duty to the ritual and duty to the process but the president-elect and vice president-elect and his team cannot demand that they recant what they believe before offering advice going forward. >> richard haass, do you agree? >> yes. only one president at a time. what i think is also really important now is the inbox that's going to greet this president is about as demanding a foreign policy inbox as any president has been met with in a long time. unraveling middle east. europe is more uncertain than it's been in a generation. you have china's rise. you have north korea. you have an inbox that's dangerous. it's challenging. it's intellectually and

politically difficult. we need talent to be able to come in. i'm hoping there's a way that those that sign these letters can find a way to walk it back and that president-elect will find a way if not forget but allow these people to serve. again, you have 4,000 jobs out there to fill. we need the best talent we can get in this country in those jobs. >> general michael hayden, stay with us if you can. coming up, bob woodward has a fascinating piece on secrets about to be shared with donald trump. what's inside those classified briefings that caused president-elect obama to joke about jumping out of the window. "morning joe" is right back. >> we'll trade one donny deutch for another. you don't let anything keep you sidelined.

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whether it's connecting one of or bringing wifi to 65,000 fans. campuses. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. we heard you got a job as a developer!!!!!

its official, i work for ge!! what? wow... yeah! okay... guys, i'll be writing a new language for machines so planes, trains, even hospitals can work better. oh! sorry, i was trying to put it away... got it on the cake. so you're going to work on a train? not on a train...on "trains"! you're not gonna develop stuff anymore? no i am... do you know what ge is? >> i can't believe after all this it's going to finally be over. >> we're about to have our first woman president. this is going to be an historic night. >> she got vermont. >> snap, vermont. three electoral votes. >> i'm going to go ahead and call it. florida is going blue. to latinos. >> to latinos. >> trump is going to win florida. >> i guess that the latinos didn't hear about your toast.

>> hey, guys. what did i mess? >> alaska is still out there. >> we're now calling alaska for donald trump. >> oh my god. i think america is racist. >> oh my god. you know, i remember my great grandfather told me something like that. he was, like, a slave or something. i don't know. >> donald trump has been elected president of the united states. >> don't worry about it. eight years are going to fly by. >> this is the most shameful thing america has ever done. >> it's really good. welcome back to "morning joe." it's monday, november 14th. >> had them sipping white wine. i'm glad about this. i thought the kate mckinnon thing was -- can we talk about it? let's go there. let's introduce everybody. we have former treasury official steve rattner, former director of the cia and nsa retired general michael hayden and joining the conversation, i

thought he was here all the time, ad man donny deutch. president and ceo of the aspen institute, walter isaacson and in detroit, ron. i like it when they're funny. that's all i'm going to say. please don't get serious. just don't. >> that cold open. >> it's only funny when they're winning. >> it's only funny when they're making fun of people that they don't understand. this is what happens when they don't understand what's happening in america. i mean, this was a cold open for "saturday night live."

>> i'm not giving up and neither are you. live from new york, it's saturday night. >> people wonder why donny deutch, half of america thinks the media elites are extraordinarily disconnected. >> i would like to speak as this media elite. first, i want to talk to -- >> let me guess, you were deeply moved. >> i want to stay on this topic. we have a lot of news to cover. no monologue. at this point -- >> you usually cut me off when i start talking. >> i can tell you were going to have a monologue just on this point. there are 50 million people that did not vote for hillary clinton and turn on "saturday night live" and don't expect to see a national mourning. >> well, on the flip side, the rest of the show you saw "saturday night live" poking fun at the other side of it also. i'm kind of in a bigger space. i am so kind of hyped up about

where the world is going. >> the people that have done "saturday night live" politics for 25 years, they are great. and that was a good show. and you can knock the open if you want. >> i'm not knocking the open. did you think that was a good opening for "saturday night live"? i'm not knocking it. >> i thought it was provocative like all humor should be provocative. >> i'll venture to say the overwhelming part of the audience i'm guessing is more blue. >> you're wrong. rednecks like me grew up watching "saturday night live" in northwest florida and alabama and georgia. here's the mistake by the way. here's the mistake. i can talk about stephen colbert. i have a message for late-night comedians. johnny carson never made us feel like bumpkins when we watched carson in mississippi. you know what he said to executives? you win in the central time

zone. >> you know what you have with late-night tv? you have a remote control. if you don't like it, click it off. >> that's your response to elitism? >> no. >> the fact that -- >> you have 500 choices. >> if you don't like it, change the channel. >> if people change the channel, they would change the show. >> to your point, yes, to the people that voted for trump that was, wait a second, i think this is -- most of the show was making fun of the people that voted for hillary clinton. i mean, you know -- >> all i'm saying is there is a central time zone and late-night comedians should not forget that. >> we have a general here. >> by the way, you just explained why donald trump won. you really did. i'm serious. it's that elitism. you just explained why he won. it's that elitism, steve

rattner, let me say that permeates popular culture and the reason why the democrats were so blind-sided by this. it's the reason why the democratic party was so blind-sided by this and why the media never saw it coming. >> i'm pointing at you. >> i completely agree with you about this. i think there's a huge disconnect between the center of the country and the coast and so-called elites and people in the center of the country feel elites talk down to them whether it's "saturday night live" or anything else. i get that. you're right. it's a big problem. as we talked about before democrats specifically, if they can't figure out how to talk to the center of the country, they're going to remain a minority party for a long time. >> let's get to our top story which is donald trump sitting down with leslie stahl for the first time. this is some of what the president-elect told "60 minutes." >> it was almost hard breaking

it up. we had so many things to say. and he told me the good things and the bad things. there are things that are tough right now. >> like what? give us some meat. >> i don't want to divulge. we talked about the middle east. i wanted to get his full view. i got a good part of his view. i like having that because i'm going to be inheriting that in a short period of time. i found him to be terrific. i found him to be very smart and very nice. great sense of humor as much as you can have a sense of humor talking about tough subjects and we were talking about victories also. >> do you think that your election is a repudiation of his presidency? >> no. i think it's a moment in time where politicians for a long

period of time have let people down. they've let them down on the job front. they even let him down in terms of the war front. we've been fighting this war for 15 years. >> this is the message of your campaign. >> we spent 6 trillion in the middle east. you look at bridges and roads and tunnels and our airports that are, like, obsolete, and it was a repudiation of what's been taking place over a longer period of time than that. >> walter isaacson, speaking of a message for the central time zone, we spent $15 trillion on wars over the -- 6 trillion on wars over the last six years. we could have rebuilt our country over twice and talked about infrastructure spending and being able to keep your insurance if you have pre-existing conditions. he said a lot of things that will make conservative republicans very nervous but will play well in central -- the

central part of america. >> this is a very reasonable sounding donald trump. and that's what we're all kind of waiting for. you did need infrastructure spending. you need things. you need to have health care that replaces obamacare that allows people with pre-existing conditions to get health care coverage. we're all kind of waiting to see as been overused here but reince priebus-led presidency or steve bannon-led presidency. it will be interesting the first few stories that come along saying some of the alt-progressive types feel abandoned by donald trump when he does things or for that matter when the republican establishment, paul ryan and reince priebus say he hasn't changed his spots. >> ron, michigan. again, one of the great shocks of this campaign is what happened in wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania. you have a president -- let's

forget that his name is donald trump for a second -- that's one those states that's talking about infrastructure, pre-existing conditions, and ending foreign wars and rebuilding america twice over. that is a message that i would guess hits on a bull's eye in places like detroit. >> especially places of the home of reagan democrats outside of detroit, a place that lost 40,000 manufacturing jobs since 2000. people that grew up democrats and feel like the democratic party abandoned them and republicanoned them in the last decade. they want change in the worst possible way. that's what they demanded last tuesday. >> president-elect donald trump selected two men that will lead

his white house. reince priebus will be chief of staff while steve bannon will serve as chief strategist and senior counselor to the president. the statement announcing the hire say priebus and bannon will work as equal partners to shape the -- that does not happen. >> that disturbs rattner every time. every time. equal partners. >> they will help with the transition. priebus currently -- >> do you know what bobby bowden said about having two quarterbacks? if you have two quarterbacks, you have no quarterbacks. >> there's the point. there's the point, joe. >> so priebus currently serving third term as head of the republican party is a washington insider and close ally of house speaker paul ryan. while bannon has worked on the fringe of the conservative movement leading breitbart news. >> so let's get historical parallel here with the two people who are equal and i don't think they'll ever be equal. they're in different universes, jon meachem.

let me go to you, general. ronald reagan -- i'm not comparing donald trump to ronald reagan but reagan had baker and he had two others and they were co-equal but they took care of their own areas. it sounds like that's what we have a sort of an abbreviated version of that with two people here. >> i think so, joe. he's put the right guys in the right job. he's got mr. priebus in the process job. the job that makes sure everything that needs to get in front of the president gets in front of the president. and i would suggest, joe, that he needs that kind of person for national security adviser as well. not someone with a code of personality but someone that will key up the issues for the president and his team for the view of the entire bureaucracy coming in for decision making. >> donny? >> look, everybody knows there's

probably been nobody more anti-trump than me. i want to first say something to the protesters that i think is really important. stop it. you sound silly. you want a pro-active message, the message should be prove me wrong. that way you have something that you feel like you're standing up for but you're working toward. he got elected. let's all grow up. he got elected. to all my friends out there coming up me hysterically, the new mantra should be prove me wrong. having said that, we talked a lot about this. i spoke about it on the show. it was one guy i used to know that was a candidate i couldn't stand. he plays characters. i have to give it to him. in the first few days -- like i said, i'm seeing the other guy. what i saw -- i have to call it like it is. once again, i wrote a book called "often wrong never in doubt" but just a few days in but number one, reince priebus, i know it's diluted but mostly

what he did on "60 minutes" last night and what donald trump needs to understand is his election was not a referendum on his behavior. his election was a referendum on blowing up washington. and he has a job now and he started to do it last night to walk back the majority of the country did not vote for most of the stuff that people found repugnant, both republicans and democrats. if you look at it as far as certain things, the muslim ban and look at the mexican stuff and all that stuff. most people did not vote for that. i think he understands that. the thing that people should feel is he wants to win at all costs. he doesn't want to be richard nixon. he wants to be teddy roosevelt. he wants to be popular in new york city. he doesn't want to be booed. he lost all of the celebrities. he lost the celebrities. he lost "saturday night live." as a human being, he wants that back. number three, he's a contrarian. he's not going to go full right. you see it already. and number four, he is a pure

transactional guy. he is going to approach this differently. a guy that passionately did not want him in office, i am seeing now my optimistic side of what's going to happen. a guy that will governor center of right but he has an obligation that he needs to do what he did last night stop the nonsense. he needs the hatemongering and it has to go away and that's the challenge and that's the prove me wrong. >> walter, what do you say to those who say we can't forget what he said during the campaign and if you start treating him like we treat most president-elects, you normalize that behavior. >> he's the president-elect so when he becomes the president of the united states, you have to treat him such. you'll have him govern in the reince priebus style but voice and talk is going to be this alt-fringe led by steve bannon.

that's in some ways what a lot of leaders do. they do sensible things but then they couch it in sort of the rhetoric of populism that will help them do it. i do think it's important not to mainstream the hate, the anti-semitism, the racism that came through in a lot of what breitbart has done over the years. >> to your point, donny, i think what you said will be a challenge for women and spend a lot of time on the phone over the weekend with a very powerful, influential women and most are upset. they are organizing marches and they feel strongly about this. >> prove me wrong. that's the challenge. >> i did speak with one of the most powerful women in the world. i think that it was almost spiritual advice. she was, like, the past has to be the past. we have to help this president. we have to give him a chance. i thought it was something coming from her. more to come on that.

>> she was all in for hillary clinton. >> it was right there. >> behavior can't be normalized. that's the one huge caveat with all of this. >> joining us from washington, the deputy whip, tom cole of oklahoma. >> we'll ask you the same question we ask everyone else. what are you looking for right now in the trump transition? a lot of people concerned and have been concerned in the past but there seems to me on this set and in some parts of washington a growing sense of hope that with reince priebus and others around him this may actually be more of a mainstream transition that we're looking at. >> i start actually with president-elect himself who i think has been pitch perfect since election night. he's the one that's going ultimately set the tone for his administration. and again selections he's made particularly chairman priebus,

that's an excellent choice. he's somebody that's well known, trusted, managed to win confidence of everybody on the side of the great divide in republican politics, and led us to a victory that a lot of people didn't see coming. again, these are very good choices. the tone has been very good. i have to give the president of the united states, barack obama, and secretary clinton a lot of credit in that regard too. i wish everything in the street or everybody on my side in these arguments would just take a cue from their leaders who have acted responsibly and in the best traditions of the country. >> they seem to be moving on. most of washington seems to be moving on. obviously protesting is still going on. >> hillary clinton herself and general hayden i would like to ask your opinion on this only because it has to do with the fbi as a whole as it moves on but hillary clinton in a conference call talking about, she laid some of the blame for

donald trump's victory at the feet of the fbi director, james comey. and she told the call that after the third debate they felt they had a real wind at our back. there are lots of reasons why an election like this is not successful, she said saturday. according to "the washington post." the analysis is that director comey's letter stopped momentum and follow-up letter only emboldened trump supporters. what do you think of that at this point? >> it may or may not be true. frankly, i suspect there are real elements of truth in that, mika. frankly, that's not what the democrat party needs in order to move forward to scapegoat and defeat on that and it allows it to avoid some real important issues that howard dean suggested that they have to take on and can i offer one additional thought ? one thing that the president-elect might do is focus on business and suggest to

some members of the republican party on the hill that consuming energy with endless hearings about secretary clinton and other activity just isn't going to be a plus. he could really clear the deck for moving forward and putting us a bit back together again. >> do you agree with that? moving forward and not being wrapped up in investigations for the next two years about hillary clinton probably is not only the best interest of the country but also in the best interest of our party? >> i think absolutely so. look, i don't think we should for a minute let the fact that we won cover up the fact that we still have some real challenges. if this election had been amongst millennials and minorities, we would not have won. we have an opportunity to move forward here and reach into communities we haven't done well in. trump himself did some of that during the course of the campaign. but i think looking at the past is a big mistake. trying to settle scores is always a waste of time in

politics. we need to look at what the president-elect's program is and start moving that through congress. that's the way i think we can make strides. if we're persecuting people that lost the last election, we're making a mistake of a lifetime. >> terrible mistake. ron, what did you think of hillary clinton on saturday while there were riots in the street blaming james comey for her loss? >> i appreciate what she must be going through having lost that race. obviously she lost it. not james comey. i would like to talk a little bit about this new staff we have in the white house and importance of it. if you look in recent history, george stephanopoulos, karl rove, david axelrod, john podesta, they were more influential than chief of staff. we need to look at the appointment of steve bannon. his news organization among many

things was home to anti-semitic racially charged racist type of content. the white house can't be home to that. that's something donald trump is going to have to deal with. he's going to have someone very close to him that could push him in a very negative way. i agree with you so far. a good few days for donald trump. we're seeing a different side of him. the kind of side we need to see. don't underestimate what happened here with this appointment. there's one guy who is going to be controlling the message the way he has is at the time up. that's steve bannon. not reince priebus. >> so thanks to tom cole. greatly appreciate it. thank you, general michael hayden, and ron fournier, thank you. >> let's go to washington to talk to rnc chairman newly appointed chief of staff, reince

priebus. >> you were too tired to think about this job on election night but you have to think about it now. you just heard a lot of people applauding your selection. there are some concerns about steve bannon because of the breitbart connections. what would you say to those people that have those concerns right now? >> well, that's not the steve bannon that i know. i've spent a lot of time with him and here's a guy that's a harvard business school, london school of economics. ten-year naval officer advising admir admirals. a force for good on the campaign at every level i saw all the time. this is all about achieving president-elect trump's agenda. i can assure you and it's important and i know president-elect trump wants all to understand this, all americans out there, no matter race, gender, ethnic background, he wants to make you proud of your country and serve you.

i can tell you this in 20 years you're going to look back at this presidency and say, wow, he did everything he said and what a great job and how incredible this country went. that's what he wants. he wants for everyone to understand that he gets that he serves you and that's the president that i know and that's the person i'm working with today. >> walter isaacson is here and has a question for you. >> how are you? >> you bet. hey, walter. i'm doing great. >> i listened to what you just said which is so important making everyone feel part of america again. not feeling discriminated against. but what is he going to do to make that happen? the appointment of stephen bannon even if he did go to harvard business school or whatever sends a signal that some of the stoked up hatred that happened in the fringe parts of the internet are things that he's bringing into the white house. am i wrong about that? how do you reassure people that's not the case? >> i think everyone out there can agree that you judge people

as you see them and not as other people have said. that's what i would say is that it's what people do. it's how people act on a day-to-day basis. i've only seen a generous, wise person to work with. so at the end of the day, this campaign worked because factions within our party were represented, and we had the most -- it was an electoral landslide to tell you the truth. donald trump was able to achieve that. but it was because of donald trump and his message and the fact that democrats, republicans, independents said we want a change in this country and donald trump represented that change. he did so in a way that just shocked the world. and the other thing about president-elect trump and everyone understands it knows him, he listens to a lot of people. if anyone thinks i'm the only one that's going to walk in to that office and say this is what

you have to do, i think in a lot of cases, he takes the advice. he likes to listen to a lot of people. that's a good thing. that's what you want from a president. and so it's a role that i'm honored to have and a role that i look forward to serving. most importantly for the american people to advance the agenda of president-elect trump and make everyone proud in this country no matter who you are. >> reince priebus, donny deutch. first off, congratulations. to that last point, a little advice from the cheap seats, there's one speech he needs to give. it's what you just said and kids said and hinted at it. simply says to people, hey, look, i am a certain kind the fighter in the ring. i know there were a lot of things said and done. explicitly address i'm everybody's president. muslim president. i am a transgender president. in a street fight sometimes do

you and say things and i know people are frightened out there. don't be. and walk some of that stuff back. he does that, the dominos will fall. it's that simple. >> reince, that's what donny deutch calls a question. >> if he doesn't do that, if he doesn't do that -- >> okay. you have to stop talking, chris matthews. let him answer. go ahead. >> donny, i think that's good advice. and that's where president-elect trump's heart is at. he doesn't like seeing the things that are on tv right now. it's not who he is. it's not what he wants to represent. he wants people that are out there even tonight that are protesting to let them govern. let them make you proud of our country and give a shot to protest before he walks into the oval office after an historical landslide. it's everyone's right. we get the constitution and bill of rights.

that's fine. it was the democrats and hillary clinton thought donald trump would not accept the youtcome o the election. >> you're still campaigning. >> i said that you had good advice. i said that was good advice. >> the reason why donny reacted the way he did is you're the first person that said he's given good advice. steve rattner is here. he has a question. >> my question is during the campaign president-elect trump took positions on a variety of issues that were at odds with what paul ryan and some of the other mainstream republicans took. i'm thinking of immigration where paul ryan object to mass deportation and reforms to social security and medicaid which paul ryan and other house republicans have been pushing for and donald trump has been opposed to. how are you going to resolve those conflicts? >> there's not -- the conflicts

aren't as great as you're outlining. in regard to immigration, president-elect trump's immigration policies are similar to those in the senate and house today to temporarily suspend immigration from countries that harbor terrorism. to temporarily suspend immigration from syria until we get better vetting. that's not extreme. that's exactly what is in the house today. in regard to tax reform, i would imagine that donald trump's tax reform policies are 80% or 90% in line with what is sitting on a major tax reform program sitting in the house. as far as trade is concerned, look, paul ryan and i come from janesville, wisconsin, and kenos kenosha. two places decimated by the car industry leaving our country and going to mexico and china. you know, i wouldn't -- i wouldn't say that, you know, this free trade obsession is

something that can't get looked at in regard to making things more fair. and so i'm telling you, there's a lot of common ground and he's going to make you proud of this country and that's what we want every american to feel in about three months when they see it happen. >> reince priebus, thank you very much. congratulations. what you and sean spicer did, nothing short of remarkable. congratulations. >> it really was. >> thank you. >> and something as far as competence goes, you know, he took over rnc after the republicans had been decimated. they didn't have a ground game. they didn't have -- he actually said -- we're all spun by politicians. you don't know who is telling the truth and he always said i'm plowing all my money into a ground game. sean spicer came around and showed the journalists what is going to happen tonight. he said because i want you to

know what we've done. they went through the ipad. they predicted. we're up one in michigan. it sounds crazy. we're looking good in wisconsin. i know. i know. i'm not spinning you. they go through all of the context. it's reassuring to know that a guy like that that actually rebuilt a ground operation on a national level is at that level of competence is in there. >> reassuring for that reason. reassuring in a related way which is being a chief operating officer or administrative officer, the way they have to do to run the white house, is a pretty difficult job. it takes a type of person who is in it not for himself but to try to make things work. decisions made carefully. what's most reassuring is he can unite at least the republican party and probably even reach out to some democrats. i spent time with him when he went out with governor romney who does a retreat out west in

the summer. reince priebus i just watched him work. he can get along with all factions of the party. you need a bit of a healing nail and reince is the person to do that. >> on steve bannon, i've been watching people all weekend long with good reason screaming really upset on television about this. and you judge people not just on what reince was saying but on their record, and his record gives cause for real concern. but he also helped president-elect donald trump win. to judge him on actions moving forward. >> there have been a lot of people talking about the campaign that don't really know anything about the campaign. i can tell you as somebody that knows behind the scenes how the campaign ran, i can tell you

that steve bannon was over the last month or so the great organizer. he was the one that told trump you got to do this. actually, i guess -- >> legitimately scaring people. >> trump listened to him. i don't know whether it takes a guy like that that is anti-establishment that when he delivers the mainstream message to trump, you can't do this. you can't say that. trump is more likely to listen to him. >> we will see. >> walter isaacson, thank you. >> no question of his competency. >> still ahead, steve rattner has his own message to the trump administration. first, do no harm. steve busts out the charts ahead. ♪ ♪ ♪

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37 past the hour. the gop will now control both ends of pennsylvania avenue but can a trump white house see eye to eye with paul ryan's republicans on capitol hill? steve rattner is looking into that question. he has charts. okay. [ applause ] >> should there be applause when you say charts. >> okay. let's go. >> the republicans control as we said both ends of pennsylvania avenue and now they're going to have to work things out between themselves. let's look at some of the issues where they agree and some where they disagree. this is really between donald trump and paul ryan as the most

important players in this. so they agree mostly on tax cuts for the wealthy. i'll show you differences in a minute. they agree mostly on cutting what we call domestic discretionary spending. things like education, r&d and so on though trump has massive infrastructure plan that paul ryan has not signed up for. they agree on repealing obamacare. lots of details to come later. they agree on reducing regular lace -- regulations on business. >> i think two and three they're going to be fighting each other. >> i agree. >> i think on obamacare, he's going to want something much closer to obamacare than anybody in the house ever. >> that is exactly right. remember one important thing about this. parts of obamacare, taxes, medicare, can be done by a 51 vote majority in the senate. the democrats become emasculated. this is a republican versus republican set of issues. >> let me say one thing and let you go on with the chart.

i've been telling a lot of people don't pay nazi swastika. if you're a liberal and you want to be scared of something, i will tell what you to be scared of. i know you'll agree with me completely. he is going to cut regulations. he's going to do everything he can to slash regulations. if you're a liberal and you want something to general wuinely be concerned about, that's going to happen. >> i think because they control both ends of pennsylvania avenue, which ronald reagan never had, this could be a r reagan revolution on steroids. they disagree on social security and medicare where donald trump said status quo and this is back to his moderate approach and paul ryan very much wants to do some stuff to get these onto a sound fiscal basis. they disagree on trade. and you heard yesterday paul ryan say he's not on the mass deportation program. he's against that. there's a lot of disagreements.

so let's look at one important thing. what is the trump plan going to do for the average american. this is his tax plan. it is $5.5 trillion of tax cuts of which 83% go to top 20% and over 50% go to the top 1%. >> what is that in form of? >> income tax reductions. if you are in the 40% to 60%, you get $1,000. if you're down here, you get $300. if you're down here, you get $100. i'm not at all sure how this exactly helps the issues that are facing mr. trump. >> is he talking about top rates back to where bush had them? >> top rates down to -- 33 brackets. he and paul ryan agree on them. 33, 25 and 15. major taxes for business. let's look at the impact on the deficit. right now we're on trajectory to have debt to gdp ratio go to 83%. ryan plan would take it to 96%.

trump plan would take it to 111%. in fairness of both guys, they will propose spending cuts to bring those ratios down but haven't done it yet. we're talking 5.5 trillion with a t tax cuts that trump proposed of which only about 20% go to people below the absolute top of the economic -- >> what do you think really happens? do you think they pass those big tax cuts? >> i do. they can pass that stuff with 51 votes in the senate through reconciliation. this is exactly how the bush tax cuts were passed when bush came in. >> is that how obamacare got passed is. >> it's more complicated with obamacare but short answer is yes. >> if i'm a factory worker -- >> very clever. >> i don't know. >> if i'm a factory worker and i'm watching that, wait a second, trump ran on he's going to take care of the little guy, no more of this. what do you say to that guy watching? >> donny has grasped the essential point. >> what do you say to that voter

at this point? >> what do you say to the voter when you say you'll get a $300 tax cut from donald trump? >> and i'll say what i said several months ago. his tax plan doesn't reach out to those people. and we'll see what happens. i mean, i said that. >> you said to me -- you asked me is this going to pass? i said just like bush tax cuts they can do this. >> coming up, how about this for a redrawing of the political map. hillary clinton loses wisconsin and pennsylvania but wins orange county, california. the last time that happened was when franklin roosevelt won it in 1936. we'll talk history straight ahead on "morning joe." >> both are going to write a book on elf landing next year. whether it's connecting one of the world's most innovative campuses.

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award-winning author and nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss and evan

thomas. good to have you both on board. >> evan, bobby wentied, a hero of-mile-per-ho mine. i think one of the more vivid parts of that book was his first speeches in the '68 campaign, the chaos that ensued even in places like kansas. there was a real populist streak out there. populist streak that transferred to wallace after he died. do we have an element of that in middle america where trump was the first to win appalachia since fdr. >> populists who won, that's a new thing. a whole uncharted territory. wallace got 13% of the voe in 19 68. trump won. >> why is that, evan? historically, what are you looking at? >> the forces have been amplified by the internet.

the dark side was just given vent by the internet, and we've had a basic loss of faith in american institutions really since the '60s. you name the institutions, the military, the church, all have lost credibility and backing. what's filled that void is a kind of popular anger against the establishment. >> michael, have we ever had as tumultuous a decade politically? i find it hard to believe that we have. in 2004, karl rove bragged about the republican permanent majority. 2006, nancy pelosi, speaker of the house. 2008, hope and change. two years later, the tea party comes in. two years later, obama wins. two years later, a landslide win for republicans. that all happened in a decade. >> i got tired, too, mika. that's exactly right. and i think what it shows is actually the strength of this democracy because if it wasn't

working, you wouldn't see that kind of tumult. what you have seen is a lot of problems that people are very angry about, as evan said. and people are willing to give someone a chance if they might not have before donald trump and the republicans in this case. what it also suggests is if they do not perform, the voters have got them on a very tight leash and you'll see a different result in the midterms the next time. >> so is this -- do both of you guys see this possibly the beginning of the end? what jon meacham calls the 150 duopoly of political parties. trump in effect destroyed both parties this year. >> if i could comment, i guess i would disagree a little bit because i think if donald trump had won this year as the leader of a third party, that might be true, but what it actually showed is that an outsider can go into a major party, come from behind, take its nomination, and

change it in an almost radical way, in a way what that shows is the two-party system is strong. >> i agree. i think it's been one of the great strengths of the republic is we create these tent, the big tents. it looks like the tent was about to rip in half, that didn't happen. trump won, and i think that's a good thing. keep the two-party system. >> evan, doesn't this sort of smack, everything seems to smack of nixon's, quote, silent majority. i hear the rumblinrumblings. the echoes of that silent majority. >> sure, nixon wrote that phrase, and nixon milked it for all it was worth, but when he got -- when he won in 1968, he was pretty quick to reach out to the establishment. he always liked to rant against harvard. get those harvard bastards out of my cabinet, but he made henry kissing kissinger, a harvard professor, foreign policy adviser, and

moynahan his domestic adviser. with nixon, you had to watch what he did, not what he said. >> go ahead, michael. >> i'm sorry, i don't want to interrupt harold. one caveat, evan is right about nixon doing those things, but hao was forced to. he was elected by only very narrow majority. had two big democratic houses of congress. wanted to get re-elected. i fink the nixon had come in as trump has this year with, you know, a sizable electoral margin plus both houses of congress, i'm not sure he would have been so well behaved. >> evan, you said the failure of these big institutions over the la several years, the internet has amplified the disgust on the part of most americans. what can big institutions, be it media, polling, what can big institutions do, the one big thing to restore some of that, and what can trump do to be a part of that? >> be humble. one thing we all need is humility. trump is a bully and a braggart. if he can show some humility,

the country will be hungry for it. they have seen the bullying and braggart side. i think we have seen a little bit in recent days. i think big institutions got themselves in trouble by being arrogant and the public rejected that. i think the country is ready for a dose of humility, and i hope that trump gives them at least some. i'm not sure it's in his character, but he's trying. >> it's there. michael beschloss, evan thomas, thank you both. >> thank you. >> still ahead, protests in the streets as donald trump tries to make the transition from bare knuckle campaigner to the man behind the desk in the oval office. and the incidents of violence against trump supporters as well. >> plus, more from dave chappelle's incredible s n"snl" return. you're watching "morning joe." >> why do we have to say that? why do we have to say that black lives matter? >> admit that is not the best slogan. but mcdonald's already took you

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and it was very exciting. and b.e.t. had sponsored the party, so everyone there was black. it was beautiful. i walked through the gates. you know, i'm from washington, so i saw the bus stop where the corner where the bus stop used to be, where i used to catch the bus to school and dream about night like tonight. it was really, really beautiful night. and at the beginning of the night, everyone went to the west wing of the white house, and there was a huge party. and everyone in there was black except for bradley cooper for some reason. and on the wall were pictures of all the presidents of the past. i looked at that room and i saw all those black faces and bradley, and i saw -- and i saw how happy everybody was. these people who had been historically disenfranchised, and it made me feel hopeful.

and it made me feel proud to be an american. and it made me very happy about the prospects of our country. so in that spirit, i'm wishing donald trump luck and i'm going to give him a chance. and we, the historically disenfranchised, demand that he give us one too. thank you very much. >> good monday morning to you. it's november 14th. welcome to "morning joe." >> what was bradley cooper doing there? >> for some reason, that was funny. >> why was he there? >> because he's always -- >> always around. >> exactly. with us on set, we have former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. msnbc political analyst and professor at the university of michigan school of public policy, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> don't want to talk about it. what happened? >> offense stayed in the locker

room. we couldn't get it going. >> first time since 1985 the number two, number three, number four teams all lost in the top five. >> makes you sad, right? >> unheaval all around. >> you're on top of a mountain, if you're alabama. it's like, is anybody down there? >> the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass is with us, and in nashville, tennessee, pulitzer prize winning historian jon meacham. president-elect donald trump sat down with leslie stahl for his first televised interview since last week's election. here some of what the president-elect told "60 minutes" beginning with how he reacted to the magnitude of the moment. >> on election night, i heard you went completely silent. was it a sort of realization of the enormity of the thing for you? >> i think so. it's enormous. i have done a lot of big things. i have never done anything like

this. it's so big. it is so -- it's so enormous. it's so amazing. >> took your breath away. >> a little bit. a little bit. i think i realized that this is a whole different life for me now. >> do you think that your election is a repudiation of his presidency? >> no. i think it's a moment in time where politicians for a long period of time have let people down. they have let them down on the job front. they've even let them down in terms of the war front. we have been fighting this war for 15 years. >> this was the message of your campaign. >> we spent $6 trillion in the middle east. we could have rebuilt our country twice. and you look at our roads and our bridges and our tunnels and our airports are like obsolete. and i think it was just a repudiation of what's been taking place over a longer period of time than that.

>> jon meacham, it's hard for the weight of the office, the weight of the responsibilities not to bear down on anybody, and you saw it there, that donald trump felt it even election night. as leslie reports, he went completely silen. >> yeah, it's the opposite, the obverse of when bob dole called mcgovern and said when does it stop hurting, and he said i'll lettia know. all president-elects have a moment where they realize, usually it's national security questions and there's also going to be some moment in the spring, probably, where it even in a tactile sense, it becomes clear that happened to president kennedy and the bay of pigs. we hope we don't have to have a crisis before the enormity becomes clear. >> richard haass, donald trump

in that interview with leslie stahl, and in all private conversations he's had since the election, is making it very clear that he is going to change u.s. foreign policy. and the very things that the foreign policy establishment was concerned about, retrenchment, america leading from behind, he's going to pursue even more aggressively. you heard him talking about wasting $6 trillion on foreign wars. we should have invested that back in the country. he's also very skeptical about any further action in syria or iraq. he believes we should leave that country to assad. it's going to be a dramatic, if you just look at the -- he's not even hinting. row don't have to read tea leaves. donald trump is an american first. comes from the american first category. and he is not going to be doing what we have been doing for the

past 15 years, apparently. >> there's always a balance between guns and butter. and obviously, the balance is going to shift potentially markedly in the direction of butter. a greater domestic focus. we have seen one thing which is trade. for a sencheralcentury, u.s. try has been a tenant for both democrats and republicans. that's essentially gone. >> tpp is dead now. it's not even on life support. >> that's dead. and the challenge is going to be that we can't thrive domestically in a world that unravels. getting this balance right, even if you want to have things do better at home, we can't do better at home if things do really badly abroad. >> what happened with the markets? i saw coming in here, last week, a record high for the dow. and also they had their best week, the dow had its west beak since 2011 on a, quote, trump rally. what are the markets, which were supposed to collapse, what are the markets responded to positively?

what are they hearing? >> they realized the trump plan, and we'll talk more about that later, is basically an expansion of our fiscal policy. a lot of tax cuts. try to get the economy going again. not spend a lot, but give a lot of money back in tax breaks and fundamentally change the regulatory atmosphere on business. >> all very pro-business. >> incredibly pro-business. what you saw happen is interest rates went up but markets rallied because they think profits will go up. the only thing i'll say because you brought up the guns versus butter analogy. he does also want to increase defense spending. he's very much with the congressional republicans on the increasing defense spending. >> harold, we have been talking about this for a very long time, the protests and the unrest, so we're not getting ahead of ourselves. >> and the top names picked for top positions. >> but you already look at the first big bill. it sounds like a democratic bill. when you talk about this massive infrastructure plan that he and schumer and pelosi have already

been talking about. it seems like the whole idealogical board is going to be completely tossed around. when you have a republican that doesn't want to be as aggressive across the globe and that wants to spend a lot of money on infrastructure. >> i think he's going to be a situational democrat/republican. during the campaign, in the final days when it was announced there was a big merger perhaps between time warner and netflix, i mean, time warner and at&t, he said he was opposed to that. he would be suspicious of big business and big deals like that. yet, to steve's point, there's certainly going to be a change in the regulatory climate which gives some comfort to the markets. so it's hard to say where he will come down. listening to him even on "60 minutes" he indicated he wanted to keep the pre-existing component for health care. if you listen to most republicans, and even some democrats who have concerns

about the affordable care act, their concern is 26-year-olds should not be able to stay on for free. you want 22 to 26-year-olds who are healthy to contribute more because that's what's going to allow the program to survive and to thrive. so i think he's going to be a situational kind of guy. one of the thing we have seen, my pastor this weekend said we know more about what he's against than what he's for. we're starting to learn more about what he's for. these menus he's chosen for the white house, they show his balance. >> it's a range. >> someone who anning itinized someone, the establishment and the republican party, and someone who is more establishment. >> jon meacham, you talked about eight years ago, you said barack obama was conservative with a small "c." conservative the way william f. buckley said looks at the world as it is, not as we want it to be. you look at donald trump, and you look at infrastructure. he's talking about big infrastructure plan with schumer and pelosi. he's talking about bringing our

troops back home and not being, you know, the 15 years of war. and then on obamacare, again, these are three things republicans are going to hate, which i have been telling people for a very long time. that he's just not going to be idealogical. the third thing is obamacare. not only is he saying he's going to keep pre-existing and also that parents' children can stay on it, but he's also saying he's not going to repeal it until there's a plan to replace it because he doesn't want anybody to be off health care coverage for a day. that suggests at least in that case, again, somebody who wants -- like you said, a conservative with a small "c." >> the great question, which we also saw in the campaign, not day to day, but half hour to half hour, is going to be the tension between his showmanship and stability. right? how much, how radical is he?

how much does his rhetoric actually track with what he wants to do in terms of reality? does he even know, is a good question. you know, sometimes you get the impression, someone pointed this out in the campaign, he would be reading a speech on the teleprompter and he would stop and say, so true, as if he read it for the first time. >> he doesn't really like the teleprompte teleprompter, you know. >> last night, so last night, he says, and this goes to your question, he said, well marriage equality has been ruled on. that's settled. but roe v. wade should be overturned. so where is the consistency? >> if you'll notice, and i was speaking of the same thing you did. marriage equality is settled. leave it alone. then she asked about roe v. wade, and will you overturn roe v. wade. he would not say it. will you try to -- he would not say it.

he said i'll appoint pro-life judges. which i know for activists, that's nuanced, but -- >> his position on roe v. wade -- >> let it go back to the states. >> let it go back to the states. if the states want to allow abortion, fine. >> i understand. he also said women can go to other states, which is just absolutely horrific, again, for people where this issue matters. i'm just saying, though, you know, it is a difference between, let's say, what scalia, what type of justice scalia was and what type john roberts is. john roberts isn't going to jump from here to there. it's going to be a long, slow march. >> exactly right, it's going to be hard to pigeon hole. and it's pure republicanism or pure democrat or pure conservative. >> by the way, he doesn't see himself as a republican. >> he's going to take specific

policies and foreign policy and economic policy that he embra embraces. even the appointments show a range, rather than a narrow idealogical or philosophical embrace. this is going to be much more eclectic across the board. very hard to characterize. >> i'm just thinking from what we know of him and what we have seen, the contact we have had with him of late, this is the most accurate and measured conversation i have seen all weekend. and i didn't expect it. i mean, all weekend long, i have been on the phone with people, many of them really powerful, most of them hysterical. i don't know if i can say this, many of them republicans. >> well, hysterical, and making the same mistake that people have now made twice about donald trump. >> right. >> he cannot win the primary. and they give him a 1% chance. so what do they do? i'm sorry, i have to say it. i said this from the beginning. ronald reagan feasted on the low expectations of his rivals.

there were piles of political bones that ronald reagan's feet from people who underestimated him. they did it to donald trump during the primary. they did it to donald trump during the general election. they should have learned their lesson. nobody in the media learned their lesson. nobody. they're doing it again. you paint a swastika on his forehead, you call him a nazi, you're going to set expectations so low, he's going to beat you again. it's just going to happen. and it seems to me that there has to be some nuance. i mean, oprah winfrey came out and said, he won, let's give him a chance. she was attacked viciously online. i wonder what dave chappelle's response was just by saying w t what -- yeah, everybody take a deep breath. hope lives. barack obama said give him a chance. hillary clinton said give him a chance. all of these people.

>> and i'll say give him a chance, but i'll also add -- >> vigilant, i understand that. >> but here's my question. at the end of the day, when you go through some of the issues we were talking about, you go through trump's policies, what is there in what he is saying he's going to do that is actually going to fix the problems with the people who elected him? the people at the base. >> still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> do you think your husband would have had a better chance of beating donald trump than hillary clinton did? >> absolutely. but it doesn't matter. the election is over. what he has to do now is use his influence and work with people across this country to affect the change that they would have voted for had he been on the ticket. and they did vote for in the primary. despite all the irregularity. >> buiitter feelings after the democrats lose the white house. who is best suited to take over the party now? howard dean has an idea.

he joins us just ahead. first, here's bill karenwise a check on the forecast. >> good monday morning. good you have been on social media or anywhere, this whole supermoon, it's hysterical, how many posts there are all over the place. taking the picture, if you're on the west coast, it took about an hour to get outside and see this. east coast, it's already set. that's a beautiful shot of the arch there. the reason it's such a big deal, it's the closest the moon has been to us in 70 years and the closest until 2024. on the west coast, you have about an hour before the moon sets. this morning, rain on the outer banks of north carolina, this rain is going to head up. almost like a mini nor'easter, but it's not cold enough for any snow or anything like that. barely any rain. we're watching the richmond and d.c. area. 5:00 p.m., most is toward the coastal areas. 10:00, 11:00 p.m., it moves to new york city. early tomorrow morning, you may have rain in philadelphia, long island. that could mean airport delays.

overall, unbelievably warm november from the west coast to the middle of the country, it's been incredible. it continues today. 60 in chicago, doesn't feel like the middle of november, and thanksgiving, the end of next week. washington, d.c., gorgeous day for you. looks like a gorgeous week of weather ahead. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪ i want a hippopotamus for christmas ♪ ♪ only a hippopotamus will do at the united states postal service, we deliver more online purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. and more hippopotamuses, too. ♪ so whatever your holiday priority, our priority is you. [burke] hot dog. seen it. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

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>> i'm hopeful now that hillary can finally have time for herself, like the day after the election, she was already spotted hiking in the woods near

her house. and weirdly, she had already grown out a full david letterman retirement beard. there were also some really great historical moments on tuesday. for example, a record number of female minorities were elected to the senate. right? that's what i'm saying. let's see all their names right now. ♪ this is my -- >> oh, what? >> as democrats seek a way forward, the president will phone members of the dnc this evening at 5:00. hillary clinton will phone house democrats at the same time. the departure of debbie wasserman schultz under the cloud of the e-mail hacking scandal has left a power vacuum at the top of the national party. howard dean, former party chair, tweeted his interest to take back his old job and fix the place. over the weekend, former presidential candidate maryland governor and democratic governors association head martin o'malley said he had been

approached by democrats in search of new leadership. in a tweet storm, he posted, i'm taking a hard look at dnc chair because i know how badly we need to reform our nominating process. articulate a bold progressive vision. but the momentum is increasing behind minnesota congressman keith ellison, who supported bernie sanders during the primaries. presumptive senate minority leader chuck schumer backs him and so does his predecessor, harry reid. elizabeth warren said ellison would make a terrific chair and picked up the backing of michael moore over the weekend as well. >> let's bring in from vermont, the state's former governor and former head of the democratic national committee, howard dean. it looks like the washington establishment seems to be lining up behind keith ellison. why do you think you would be a better candidate? better dnc chire for where the party is right now? >> i think keith is terrific. i went door to door with him in his first campaign. i like him a lot.

you cannot do this job if it's not full time, period. full stop. end of story. so you know, i'm going to be supportive of whoever wins this. i'm interested in it. and i know how to do this. the washington establishment has almost nothing to do with who runs the democratic national committee, i can personally attest to that. when my team started, we didn't have the house, the senate, or the presidency. when we left four years later, we had the house, the senate, and the presidency. i think i know how to do this, but this is not something -- i have already done this once. this is not something i have to do. it's not something i'm going to push people out of the way. >> what do you say to democrats when they come up and ask what happened. if you look at the loss of the senate, 11 seats since barack obama became president. you look at the house, over 60 seats since barack obama was president. 14 governorships lost since barack obama was president. and 900 state legislative seats

since barack obama was president. the democratic party, some have speculated, in the worst shape they have been in since 1922. what do you say to dnc members when they say what's gone wrong? >> well, we have to redo some of the things we had before. the 50-state strategy went by the boards. we have to bring young people into the process in a serious way, not just every four years. we have to become a party where everybody is comfortable, including members of minority groups. they have always voted for us, but they have want been at the table as much as they should be. there are a lot of things. there are some mega trends going on around the world. donald trump's elepgz is not unique to the united states. brexit, marine le pen leading france. the polish right-wing medad govt

suppressing the media. there's a lot of people left behind by globalization, and we haven't talked to them. those are the donald trump voters. >> harold, we showed those numbers. really bad numbers over the past eight years. historically bad numbers. 900 legislative seats lost, 14 governorships, 16 seats in the house, 11 seats in the senate since barack obama elected president. what's gone wrong? >> evidently a lot. i hear what the governor is saying, governor dean, and he can point to a record of success as dnc chair, and he's right about the full-time thing as well. but what democrats are missing, we didn't have an economic message. we didn't have a coherent, cohesive message. donald trump did not surround himself with a lot of young people in his campaign other than his children. he did not talk about a 50-state trend, nothing against what the governor is saying. he had an economic message that appealed to a big part of america, that cut across party. if we as democrats don't pay close attention to that, we're going to miss the whole boat

here and miss the entire point. there's no doubt we need -- i don't mean to minimize tactics and understanding the mechanicoffs campaigning. it's clearly, governor dean gets that, but which direction is this party going to head and what message are we going to rally around. there seems to be a dirth of that, maybe an absence of that. >> i told candidates for 25 years if you can't put your message on a bumper stick, it's not going to break through in the chaos of the campaign. democrats right now, what's their message? >> at the risk of violently agreeing, i don't hear people talking about what's the plan to restore upward mobility in this country. it's not just globalization that's the challenge. it's new technology, what are we going to do to create jobs when robotics and artificial intelligence and adriverless trucks take our jobs. that's the stuff people have to speak about. i don't think the answer is just tactics. >> i don't either. howard, are you able to speak to

restoring confidence in -- i'm sorry, for it being honest and true to its message and then having one, of course? there were things that happened along the way that i think turned people off more than we truly understood. >> yeah. the answer to that is yes, and i agree with the economic message. but look, there's two pieces of this. and when i was dnc chair before, there was quite a to-to between me and the leadership in the house and senate about what the message was. my view is this. we all are going to deliver the message. the house and senate leadership are going to have to deliver the economic message. the dnc chair can do that. i think that's important, but it's important for the policy leaders to do that. what the dnc is about is mechanics. it's about being everywhere. it's about training people up. it's about having an adequate tech system which we no longer apparently have, and about

enfranchising people in the states to make their own decisions about who runs instead of having the dccc or dscc pick candidates who can fund their own campaigns and then can't win because they can't get their message across. mechanics matter. i totally agree with harold and donny that that's how you move forward, but the fact is, if you don't do the mechanics on the ground, you cannot win. >> howard dean, thank you. coming up on "morning joe," if you want to figure out how donald trump won, the "wall street journal" suggests you look no further than luzerne county, pennsylvania, which hadn't voted for a republican since george h.w. bush 28 years ago. donald trump won that county by nearly 20%. just ahead, alec macgillis of p propublica joins us for his new piece, entitled revenge of the forgotten class. a critical read for anyone who wants to truly understand how trump won the presidency. [vo] quickbooks introduces jeanette.

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37 past the hour. america's president in waiting is about to learn the deepest, darkest secrets of u.s.

intelligence. in the "washington post," bob woodward spells out the process by which president-elect trump will be briefed on his new far-reaching powers. as commander in chief. he'll learn information on special access programs, including covert air strikes and nsa intercepts overseas. get details on u.s. payments to rebel groups, counterterrorism operations here and abroad, and cyber attacks ordered directly by the president. received briefings from the pentagon about the wars against isis and the taliban. and get briefed on the so-called nuclear football, including launch codes and potential death tolls for targets, in some cases over 100 million people. and bob woodward joins the table now, also with us, former adviser to president george w. bush and cocreator and executive producer of the circus on showtime, mark mckinnon. donny deutsch back as well. >> bob, this is the briefing

that barack obama got and said he wanted to jump out of a window after getting it. this is also the oh, [ bleep ] briefing that people have called it in the past. it is when you find out just how serious your job is. >> yes, but it's not just one briefing. it's a series of briefings. first, there is normally a sources and methods briefing, which are the deep secrets people who are on the pay roll, techniques they just don't give to anyone. then there's the covert action briefing about actions abroad where we have concealed role, and then all of the military briefings, including the nuclear capacity that the u.s. has. and i think it's going to be -- you know trump better than anyone, but i think it's going to be so large. i mean, here's the national security state, which has been created. the vast espionage establishment

in this country that has been accelerated since 9/11, and it's going to be in his hands. and there's a possibility it's going to be very sobering and tempering for him. >> yeah. talked to him a couple times since. and you already pick up the fact that it's been a very sobering experience for him. and that happens to everybody. i remember you talking to david axelrod about eight years ago about when you passed each other, one going into the white house and one going out. you basically were like, good luck, fella. >> here's the keys to the gates of hell. >> there's such an excitement, and i have been around long enough, not as long as bob, but been around long enough to warn people going into new administrations now several times, you think you invented this. you didn't. understand, you play by the rules. or washington will beat you.

they just will grind you, and barack obama's failings over the past eight years sometimes have been he hasn't picked it up enough. he thought he was above washington. nobody is above checks and balances. >> that's what i wanted to ask you, bob. historical historically, the job changes over time. how is it different now than say 20 years ago or foent years ago? >> it's post-9/11. you talk to the intelligence people and they'll remind you that the fuse of instability is lit in 20 countries in the world. and there's a lot of choice here. joe, i disagree with you a little bit that washington has a say in this, and that establishment, but the president can say, we're going to do a covert action somewhere in the middle east. or we're going to get tough here. one of the problems obama had, i remember one of the heads of state of one of our best allies telling me, he loved obama,

liked him. he was smart, but no one was afraid of him. and i think that set a tone in the world. and trump obviously is going to come in and everyone is going to be afraid of him. now, how is he going to use that power? it's in his hands. and who he picks as national security adviser, who he picks as defense secretary, secretary of state, giant, giant decisions. >> that will define his presidency. >> the challenge is, this week, we have lost -- this is the first time we have a businessman in the white house, and he's an autocratic businessman. there are no grays, there are blacks and whites. and that's not going to be the case in the white house, and to see how he can shift that built-in dna temperament, use what's good about it, but temper that. >> legislatively, barack obama

comes in and is swept in on an extraordinary victory. and yet frustrated time and time again by the power of mitch mcconnell. i told trump's people right after he got elected, said i will tell you what i tell everybody. strongest person in washington, d.c., the minority leader of the senate. because he or she can stop everything dead in their tracks. >> that's the whole check and balance. >> that is the check and balance. let me ask you something, going back to the beginning of this campaign, you said after donald trump went to a low labeled event in new hampshire really on, we asked how he did. you said, and it was one of the most shocking answers i got, how was he? you said, i have never seen anybody dominate a room more than that guy. that's what everybody was calling him a joke. >> right. and that's when i looked back on the campaign, the things that struck me, the very first rally i went to in that event, i had

never seen anything like it in 30 years of politics. >> explain that. >> it was -- first of all, it was passion. you should never discount passion. he was saying it all along. polls this, polls that, but passion matters. those people were going to turn out. turnout is about a message and a messenger. not about a gazillion dollars on the ground. it's about people being passionate. i saw that at the first rally in december of last year in arizona. people came out in the middle of the day, lines around the block. >> when you saw him at the last event, the circus was there. >> the same things at the last event. >> a half day's notice or a day's notice, he says i'm going to go up to michigan. he has maybe 20,000, 30,000 people there. >> and i think you'll agree with this. great campaigns tell a story. just like the movies or books. you do that by establishing a threat, an opportunity, a victim, a villain, and a hero. threat, immigration, opportunity, make america great

again, blue collar america, workers out of work. villain, immigrants, trade deals, the establishment. solution, build a war, drain the swamp, hero, donald trump. >> wow. >> you need to write a book on this campaign. explain how it happened. >> well -- >> he's still trying to figure it out. >> easier to describe the creation of the universe. well, i think so. but this is clearly a pivot point. and when bob costa and i interviewed trump about six months ago, it was, i was really struck, and it fits with what you said, a master at measuring the reaction to himself in the room. >> yeah. >> and that is a political skill that in a small group or an interview is quite astounding. you don't see it in the large rally where he's out there and

he'll say anything and stick his finger in everyone's eye. >> he's more of a master marketer than a master salesman. a salesman takes his product and shoves it. a marketer fits his pruth in. >> it's something in the meeting president obama said to donald trump. i have never seen anything like you before in politics. crazy. >> so one of our next guests has an assessment of the election that will be sobering for democrats. donald trump is moving to the white house, and liberals put him there. we'll dig into that when "morning joe" continues. ♪ ♪

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and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their dealer network streamlined and nimble. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. i will tell you that i think there needs to be a profound change in the way the democratic party does business. it is not good enough to have a liberal elite. i come from the white working class. i am deeply humiliated that the democratic party cannot talk to the people from where i came from. >> okay. we're back on the air. joining us now, alec macgillis. >> i know where that's going. >> he covers politics and government for probropublica. he spent the last year meeting voter across the country, and he writes a new piece, revenge of

the forgotten class. some had never voted before. some had voted for barack obama. none were traditional republican voters. some were in dire economic straits. other were just a notch up and looking down with resentment at the growing dependency around them. what they shared were three things. they lived in places that were in decline and had been for some time. they lacked strong attachment to either party, and they had profound contempt for a dysfunctional hyperprosperous washington that they saw as utterly removed from their lives. boy, does that ring true. also with us is author, historian, political analyst thomas frank. his latest book is "listen, liberal, or whatever happened to the party of the people." and in his new piece, he argues donald trump is moving to the bho white house, and liberals put imthere. >> alec, let's start with you. you have spent the past year out on the road.

were you surprised by the election returns or did you suspect it? >> i was not that surprised. i was not at all surprised by this amazing surge that we saw from this white working class. i was a little surprised that there were not more suburban republicans who kind of flipped the other way to hillary, but the surge by the white working class doesn't surprise me at all. the alienation i saw out there, just the resentment, was extraordinary. so much of it had to do with a resentment of the parts of the country that are doing so much better than the parts of the country where these people live. a lot of these places have been struggling for a long time, but what's different now is this huge gap has opened up between these bubbles of prosperity on the coast, washington, new york, san francisco, and those places, of course, have become more and more identified with the democrats. and the democrats have become the party of the sort of very sort of upscale, very

successful, professional bubbles on the coast. and for a lot of these voters, they look at that and they see complete remove from that. >> thomas, you talk about the chronic complace nls cency rott liberali liberalism. i heard from people who say this is the greatest tragedy of all time. however, we don't have to start worrying about chelsea's presidential run in ten years. in fact, i think frank wrote that in his column. i can't tell you how many liberals have told me that. there's been a rotting of liberalism and it's coming from the complacency of the clinton machine that dominated it for 30 years. >> that's my bright side story, by the way. >> wow. >> seriously, the bright side of the trump victory is that, think about what this guy did, right? he smashed the establishment wing of both parties. >> totally. >> he ended two political dynasties, the bushes and clintons. you know, i fear what donald trump is going to do to this

country, but both of those things, those are healthy developments. this guy shows that anything is possible in american politics. that's a wonderful thing. >> you know, thomas, to that point, donald trump will be the first -- this will be the first republican administration without a bush or a nixon in it since 1928. >> what? come on now. >> since 1928. and we followed barack obama -- >> not since 1928. >> where you don't either have a bush -- >> 1928? >> or a nixon in administration, either vice president or president since 1928. figure it out, you're slowing me down. thomas, it also is quite remarkable, isn't it, we live in a country that elects barack obama in extraordinary election in 2008, and eight years later, does an equally extraordinary thing by electing donald trump. can you draw a line between those two decisions by working class americans? >> very much so.

one is hope and the other is a kind of desperation. you know, it's hope after it has curdled. or sat in vinegar for eight years or however you want to put it. barack obama comes in with this amazing wind at his back. the public totally behind him. expecting him to take on wall street and to basically change the direction that the country, the spiral we were going into. and he really failed in that regard. and i think trump is almost -- well, not the inevitable result, but one of the outcomes of that scenario. >> all right. donny, let me explain it to you quickly. since 1928, herbert hoover was in the white house. ike was the next republican in the white house, nixon was his vice president. nixon was in the white house from '68 -- >> since 1928. who was in in 1928? >> hoover. >> i said first since '28. >> in 1932, who was the bush or

nixon in the white house? >> the first republican administration, donny. i will say it again. you're slowing me down. >> all right. >> obama lobbies against obliteration by trump. how could it be that barack obama didn't understand the obama revolution? voters waited in hours at the early obama rallies because they wanted thunderous change, but he settled into being an ivy league east coast cerebral elitist who hung out with celebrities. he was cozy with silicon valley and dismisseive of working clas voters. he was dismissive of bernie sanders and his voters. treated sanders like a fairy tale. the man who sweptd into the white house was dismissive of the boisterous rebellions. >> the dismissive of bernie sanders is going to go down in history as one of the biggest mistakes my party has made. >> alec, i remember walking away

from a huge obama celebration in 2008. like, you know, like thomas, back then, i was not excited about barack obama being elected, for about a zillion reasons. other than the fact that it made history. and because it was the first black man to be president, and that was very exciting, but outside of that, idealogically, i remember saying, because people were so excited about it, and when thomas is talking about the curdling of hope and change, i was thinking, god help america if voters are let down by this man. because the hopes were so extraordinarily high. i wondfer thomas isn't right. if this isn't a whiplash to that extraordinary hope and change of 2008. >> exactly. but it also gets to the fact, though, that the democrats that obama and those people the last couple years was making it seem as if things really had gotten better. they had gotten better in parts of the country. you had this celebratory air the last couple years.

the dnc in philadelphia was all about the triumph of how far we had come. if you were watching this from scranton or youngstown or titoledo, you're thinking, no, things have not gotten better. a lot of democrats in these bubbles didn't realize how much these places were still lagging. on top of that, you had the sense that this time around, the democrats weren't on your side. even in 2012, democrats were so good at making it out like they were the ones on your side against mitt romney. this time around, hillary clinton was not able to do that. this is someone who spent the last couple years before the campaign giving 80 speeches for $225,000 for a total of $18 million. sort of hard to make yourself out to be the fighter who is on your side when you are become part of that world. >> i know, believe me. >> mika, you did say -- >> i was literally burned at the stake. >> you were burned at the stake because democrats didn't want to

hear that. >> what's interesting is how people are responding to trump. the people who just hate him, who feel he's going to destroy the country, are doing somersaults because you find the economists initially said in the financial markets, oh, my god. it's going to be the end of the financial markets. now that it's going up, everyone is kind of in that area is saying, oh, wait a minute. oh, it's not going to be short term, short term actually things may work out for the american economy. >> exactly the same thing they predicted in brexit. what does this mean for the republican party? i wrote this down to help. '52, nixon, '56, nixon. let me finish. '72, nixon, '80, bush, '84, bush. >> he's like the rain man of this stuff. >> i believe this is as much of a challenge to the republican party as it is the democratic party. >> well, they've got the keys to the cars now.

they're hasking for it for years, and now we have a -- just a week ago, we were talking about the shattered republican party, and now it's the most consolidated republican since 1928. >> whose is it? >> donald trump's. >> donny deutsch, we love you. >> i love you, but i'm going to beat you. >> seriously, that's the sort of hatred you have to leave behind. >> messed up the beginning, you mess up the end. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> we have to leave that hatred behind. good morning to all of you. i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, team of rivals. the first big decisions of trump's presidency. rnc chair reince priebus named chief of staff, and stephen bannon, the former head of breitbart news, as chief strategist. democrats and republicans are blasting the bannon pick, calling him a white nationalist footsteps from the oval office. >> the agenda. the president-elect's first big interview on