governor, even when he or she leaves the state. and here in d.c., voters cast ballots toake washington the 51st state, but the petition goes to congress where it's unlikely to pass. that's all for tonight. "with all due respect" begins right now. good evening, journalism world and the nation are deeply mourning tonight the loss of legendary tv reporter and our friend, gwen ifill. she died today at the age of 61. it's a big loss. we'll talk about gwen ifill's life tonight throughout the program. we'll start this afternoon with words from president obama. >> gwen a friend of ours, she was an extraordinary journalist. she always kept faith with the fundamental responsibilities of her profession, asking tough questions, holding people in power accountable, and defending a strong and free press that makes our democracy work. >> the president said it just

right. we're going to talk more about gwen throughout the program, but first we're going to start the program with what gwen would want us to start, the day in politics. former u.n. ambassador john bolton's name has been floated into the air as a possible secretary of state, while the world is still grappling with the meaning and potential repercussions of donald trump's first white house staff appointments. over the weekend, the next president filled the top two jobs of his inner most circle, naming the republican party chairman, reince priebus, as the white house chief of staff, and steve bannon, the former head of breitbart, and a firebrand figure, associated with the alt-right movement, as his chief strategist and senior counselor. both men are going to report directly to president trump and be, according to the press release, equal partners in running the administration. >> by selecting reince priebus, trump is signalling that he's willing to employ some d.c. swamp dwellers with government experience, even at the highest level of the white house, but the idea of bannon in that storied place has unleashed a gush of criticism from civil rights groups, democrats and

some republicans who say that bannon represents the nationalist and at times racist views that trump should be vocally rejecting. yesterday, the antidefamation league put out a terse statement calling bannon, quote, hostile to core american values, and the southern poverty law center called the pick, quote, mockery of trump's pledge to unite the country. today in his first press conference since the election, barack obama had advice for the president-elect and some tough love for critics of the team that trump is building. >> i've been encouraged by his statements oelection night, about the need for unity and his interest in being the president for all people. and that how he staffs, the first steps he takes, the first impressions he makes, the reset that can happen after an election, all those things are important and should be thought about. the people have spoken. donald trump will be the next president, the 45th president of

the united states. and it will be up to him to set up a team that he thinks will serve him well and reflect his policies. >> so, mark, these two choices, obviously, big news and have been dominating conversation ever since they were unveiled yesterday. reince priebus, steve bannon, talk about the logic of those -- of that joint selection. >> well, from trump's point of view, it's pretty obvious. these are two guys who played as big a role as anyone else in getting him elected. two guys who are loyal to him, who he feels loyalty to, who he thinks will produce the kind of white house he wants. and the reality is, if you take the two of them and mike pence, take away the controversy of bannon for a moment, it's not a bad setup. you've got three guys who at the division of labor to get stuff done who trump trusts. and priebus is trusted on capitol hill. i think bannon should speak -- trump should speak about him. by not addressing these issues head-on, they're allowing him to

be defined in a negative way, and rightfully so. he's got a fuller resume than just his time at breitbart. but people are alarmed by his association with breitbart. they're doing nothing to really address it, except saying bannon's a great guy. and i think they're creating a problem that they should address head-on. if bannon is going to be a senior government official, he needs to be accountable, and trump needs to explain why he's willing to overlook, which he apparently is, some of the most controversial aspects of what breitbart has done. >> well, not clearly he's overlooking them, more that he may want to grace some of the more controversial aspects of what breitbart has done. the argument today coming out of some republicans which is, well, you see these incendiary headlines at breitbart. you can't hold steve bannon accountable for every headline that's been on breitbart, yeah, you can. you really can. he didn't write those stories or headlines, but he ran breitbart and proudly trumpeted the notion that breitbart had become a home for white nationalism and the alt-right. that is a -- by, with i think most people's point of view, not everyone's, but that is a toxic

force in american life. and certainly a divisive one. so you're picking steve bannon, you're sending a horrible message to large segments of this country, about what kinds of attitudes and attributes you're willing to embrace, close to the very -- close to the seat of power in the oval office. i don't know what donald trump could say about steve bannon that would make anyone not worried about him, given his history and given breitbart's history, but certainly, not saying anything, this is an incredibly controversial pick. and the most controversial pick for chief of staff in our lifetime -- not chief of staff, but at a senior level in the white house in our lifetime. and it threatens, i think, to undermine whatever modest good donald trump has done so far by trying to be reassuring to people, it threatens to undermine all of that for everyone who has the worst fears and suspicions about where this administration is going to go. >> and it's not just controversial with partisan democrats or the media, it's controversial with republicans.

they need to address, at a minimum, because i don't think he's going to fire him over the firestorm, obviously. they need to address the specific things, the specific headlines. he needs to address them and he needs to repudiate them if he's going to have any hope of being part of a unifying administration. the guy, as i said, i've said in the past, he has a fuller resume than this, but he can't hide behind that. he has to address head on, take responsibility, explain, and denounce the things that people are rightfully really upset about. all right, so as donald trump tries out his new role as president-elect, he seems, himself, despite the appointment of bannon, to be toning down more than just his demeanor. during that news-pack interviewed he did with leslie on "60 minutes," trump was asked about several policy positions he took during the campaign, and on a few during gay marriage and the affordable care act, trump seemed to soften his tough stance. >> you really going to build a

wall? >> yes. >> they're talking about a fence in the republican congress. would you accept a fence? >> for certain areas, i would. but for certain areas, a wall is more appropriate. i'm very good at this. >> part wall, part fence. >> yeah, there could be some fencing. >> let me ask you about obacare. which you say you're going to repeal and replace. when you replace it, are you going to make sure that people with preconditions are still covered? >> yeah, because it happens to be one of the strongest assets. >> you're going to keep that? >> also with the children living with their parents for an extended period? >> you're going to keep that? >> we're going to very much try to keep that. it adds cost, but it's something we're very much going to try to keep. >> do you support marriage equality? >> it's irrelevant, because it was already settled. it was settled in the supreme court. it's done. >> so even if you appoint a judge -- >> it's done. you have -- these cases have gone to the supreme court, they've been settled and i think -- i'm fine with that. so this isn't unfamiliar.

during the presidential race, trump walked back controversial statements and policy prescriptions at times, often claiming that he had been misunderstood or taken out of context, and in all of that back and forth, it never really seemed to hurt his standing in the polls. today, at that white house press conference, president obama suggested that shiftyness and flexibility on policy may actually be an asset in the oval office. >> he is coming to this office with fewer set hard and fast policy prescriptions than a lot of other presidents might be arriving with. i don't think he has ideological. i think, ultimately, he's pragmatic in that way. and that can serve him well, as long as he's got good people around him and he has a clear sense of direction. >> so, john, trump can go left,

he can go right, but when he flip-flops, will he pay a greater price if he does it in the oval office than he did as a candidate? >> well, it depends on what he flip-flops on and in what direction. there are many conservatives who did not get behind donald trump in the course of the nomination fight and in the general election, because they didn't believe he was actually conservative at all. that he'd been a democrat his whole life and he donated to democrats his whole life. and on issues like health care, he was maybe even further to the left. but hillary clinton, in his heart. so one of the things we're going to find out now, is how much does donald trump actually understand policy. and forget about ideology, that the president was talking about, does he have actual beliefs of any kind about what policies he would like to see implemented and what are those beliefs? because i think there's a fair number of people that think that trump was saying all the stuff he thought he needed to say to win the nomination and get elected. if he moves to the center in

flip-flopping, he's not going to pay a price at all. because mainstream republicans and much of the liberal media will appreciate that if he does that. >> i mean, look, if you ask me, does donald trump care more about what gary bauer thinks or maureen dowd -- >> maureen dowd. >> -- the i think the answer is maureen dowd. so the question i think is going to be on moefs these issues, most, is does he pay a price on the right? and i think between trump and bannon and some of the other people, kellyanne conway, they're going to find out a way to make people feel good about what's happening, particularly economic conservatives. if they're going to pass major corporate tax reform early on, i think a lot of economic conservatives who don't care much about the social agenda that trump ran on punitively as a candidate, they'll be like, great. and he will keep a lot of support in the republican party. and i don't think social conservatives, have many of them, are going to turn away, because trump will find some way to keep them happy. >> that's the concern, when he has to throw those pieces of red meat off. how much do they scare the

mainstream? anyway, the revolting hate speech and hate crimes that have been occurring across this country since the election have not abated. the southern poverty law center has tracked more than 200 incidents of, quote, election-related harassment and intimidation over past week alone, targeting african-americans, muslims, women and the lbgt community. and yet, donald trump, the president-elect, who keeps saying that he wants to unite the country had been silent this matter, until he was asked about it in that "60 minutes" interview that aired last night? >> i would say, don't do it. that's terrible. because i'm going to bring this country together. >> they're harassing latinos, muslims. >> i am so saddened to hear that. and i say, stop it. if it helps, i will say this. and i'll say it right to the cameras, stop it. >> mark, you and i talked last week about the obligation that donald trump has to speak out against the acts of hate that

are being carried out, in some cases, in his name. was what he said last night on "60 minutes" enough? >> really glad he did it, nowhere near enough. and i know he doesn't want his transition consumed by doing play-by-play of these horrible things and responding to everyone. but he has never been mr. empathy, he has never been a guy who emotes and talks about these things in a way that our cub needs. we've said it before, it would help him, his presidency, and the country. i think he needs to talk about it, and maybe some of the specifics, and maybe do some symbolic event that would try to send a message that he sees this stuff happening and he doesn't aprove and he doesn't have to be asked about it, he's proactive about denouncing it. >> the list, we could sit here -- i'm not going to do it, but if you go through this list of these 200 incidents that have been recorded by the southern poverty law center, many of them are horrifying and their horrifying and many have been carried out by people who invoke

donald trump's name as they carry out these acts. this is an unprecedented thing, and we've never seen anything like this in the wake of a presidential election. and i think donald trump saying, "stop it," i'll look directly in the camera and say stop it is nowhere close to the same vicinity, of the same universe of enough if this guy actually wants to be the president of the united states and have the respect of more than the people who voted for him, and even some of those people who are probably troubled by what they're seeing play out across the country right now. got to do more. it's really hard for him, because, of course, he ran a divisive and in some cases racist campaign, that incited and forested a lot of this negative feeling that's now playing out across the country. hard position, but he has got to man up and do more than he's done so far, or this is going to be an ugly, ugly, ugly transition to power for him and for the country. >> the campaign's over. there's no reason i can think of to not do it. up next, there's now a democrat with an inside track on the dnc chair job. we'll talk about who that is and how he's getting to the top in a

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democrats still trying to suss out the future of their party and the person they want to lead it. when it comes to the next leader, bernie sanders has thrown his weight behind the minnesota congressman, keith ellison. he's also got endorsements from chuck schumer, elizabeth warren, and the outgoing senate minority leader, harry reid. today, ellison became an official candidate. there are about four or five other people eyeing it. would ellison, clearly the front-runner, be a good choice? >> i think he would be a good choice for a couple reasons. i think he's clearly now becoming the unity candidate. a candidate who can get elizabeth warren, bernie sanders on one side, chuck schumer, harry reid, who are liberal, obviously, but not like from the far, far progressive wing of the party. they're piling in behind him. i think the notion of an african-american and a muslim as the face of the party, at this moment, of the stark contrast that he would make with donald trump. he's a well-spoken guy. he's smart.

i think it's a -- i think he would be potentially a really good choice for this job. >> he brings a lot to it. he's a smart guy. he's principled. he's well-liked. i question, just because i haven't seen him do it, can he raise big money? can he go on television at the highest levels, he's on tv all the time, but at the highest levels and really take on a president? and can he be a member of congress and also run the dnc? a lot of people like howard dean are saying, it should be a full-time chair. so i think the guy brings a lot to it, and i think he's as impressive as anybody else talking about being in the race. but there are some big question marks about it, as far as i'm concerned, about whether he's ready to take that next level up and be the voice of the democratic party and the fund-raiser for the democratic party. >> i think those are fair questions. but identify got to say, this guy, as we've discussed, could poe potentially be the face of the democratic party going forward. and there will be no more powerful of vision, an image, of a black man, as the counterpoint to donald trump, if this -- if things start to go in a nasty

racially freighted direction in this administration. >> and real quick, he is a really impressive guy. >> very impressive. >> and there's a reason why these people are coalescing around him. >> all right, so we don't have that much time. so i want to get to this topic. hillary clinton basically said this weekend to a bunch of donors that she thinks she lost the election because of james comey and his intervention in the campaign about ten days out from election day. mark, do you think that's true? >> i mean, i think it definitely played a role, and i think it riled up republicans, maybe got some democrats riled up, too. but i think they're being way too ad hoc in how they're addressing this. there are some democrats that are very angry that she's citing comey as the reason why she lost. so whether it's -- what percentage of it is true, i don't know. and i think comey shouldn't have done it. but i think they'd be smart to have a more organized response, because they're leaving a bad taste in some people's mouths. >> i agree with that.

look, did james comey play maybe in the end, at the very end, a crucial divisive, maybe, role? yes, maybe, i think, possibly. and as you know, we both agree, shouldn't have done what he did. it was an inappropriate thing for the fbi director to intervene in this election at that time. but hillary clinton, she showed up with fewer of millions votes than barack obama got in 2012, running against a candidate with the liabilities that barack obama had, her inability to get the democratic base out in big numbers, her inability to create the kind of enthusiasm she needed to beat an eminently beatable challenger in donald trump, that is a much -- there are many other places to lay blame that have to do with her history, with her past, how she handled the e-mails from the very beginning, how she handled it for a year and a half. there's a lot of blame to go around. comey deserves some, but not all. >> totally agree. all right, up next, our colleague, josh green, a reporter on the bannon beat tells us the latest about what's going on in the trump transition, right after this.

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that leaves you confused about my level of interest. i'll wait a full two days before responding. perfect! we're never gonna see each other again, will we? no-no. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi double cash card does. it lets you earn double cash back. 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay. the citi double cash card. double means double. we talked earlier in the program about steve bannon, donald trump's pick for white house chief strategist. joining us now from washington, d.c., a guy who's about the only reporter who can get steve bannon on the record, "bloomberg businessweek's" national correspondent, our colleague, josh green. so, josh, bannon knows he's controversial. what's in it for him to take such a big job and become the lightning rod in this administration? >> well, bannon fancies himself a revolutionary, mark, as you

know. he thinks that he is helping kind of problem gapagate this right-wing populist movement that swept across the globe that got trump the gop nomination and has now swept him into the white house. so i think bannon view himself as trump's karl rove, so it's only appropriate that now that bannon -- now that trump is in the oval office, that bannon will be right there with him, advising him on strategy. >> so, is he doing it because he's loyal to trump? is he doing it because he wants to change america? is he doing it because it's a fun and interesting job? what's the mix of motivations, as best you can -- >> i haven't talked about the motivations, but i strongly suspect it's all three of those. if you look at what breitbart news has done over the last three years, they've tried to lead this revolution in the republican party and drive out the old guard and bring in new people like trump. and they basically succeeded in doing that. so i think what bannon sees himself as doing is formalizing that victory by taking a powerful role in a white house, so that he can steer the country

and help a president trump realize the vision for a different kind of governing agenda than anything we've seen from republicans and democrats in the past. >> josh, i'm going to put you on the spot here. not only have you gotten bannon on the record repeatedly, but wrote a profile of him a year or so ago, maybe a little longer. a lot of things that critics of this move are saying is that steve bannon's a racist and an anti-semi anti-semite. is he a racist and an anti-semi anti-semite? >> you know, as george bush said of vladimir putin, you know, i can't look into his soul. maybe you have that backwards. i can't look into his soul. i can't look into bannon's soul. he is a guy, he went to harvard business school, he was a goldman sachs backer. he wasn't some knuckle-dragging rube from the backcountry. but on the other hand, he is the chief executive of breitbart news, which publishes articles that are intentionally

inflammatory, that are racially charged, that certainly propagate a lot of racist and anti-semitic themes and that is far, far outside the bounds of anything we've seen in mainstream american politics before. and i think what that really does is speak to the fact that trump as a presidential candidate, now a president, is so far outside the boupnds of anything we've ever seen before. hard to imagine a guy like trump being elected, but he has been. and the fact that he has been is in there now. it's now that surprising that he would surround himself with people like steve bannon. >> he's been appointed along with reince priebus, who's now going to be the chief of staff. one thing we know about bannon, he has often talked about his desire to exact retribution and undermine paul ryan and the republican establishment as much as anything else. so if you're sitting up on capitol hill, you're happy about reince priebus, but what do you think about steve bannon and his agenda with respect to the republican establishment? >> i imagine you're pretty nervous.

but in you look at the balance of power in the trump campaign, bannon, i think, was more of an architect than paribas was, when it came to steering trump towards an agenda. i mean, i think the two of them worked well together. bannon has always claimed that they have, and paribas has alwa claimed that they have, too. but priebus took a subordinate position to trump from the moment he became the nominee. that continued throughout the campaign. and my expectation would be, i guess qub that that will continue in the white house. at least until trump runs into some kind of trouble and feels the need to shake things up. >> josh, what is likely to be the role, a lot of speculation today, of breitbart in a trump administration? >> you know, i think that's an open question. and when you stop and think about it, it's a little difficult, i think, for breitbart to navigate the new terrain in washington. they have always happily and gleefully been outsiders throwing rocks at the republican

and the democratic establishment, led by steve baon. and now the fact that bannon is in there, in the white house with the breitbart candidate and donald trump is going to make it much harder, i think, to play that same kind of role, especially if trump does what he says he intends to do, and governs in a way that includes establishment republicans and even democrats. it will be interesting to see whether they wind up playing the same role they have in the past, or whether it's some kind of watered-down version of problem. >> josh green, thanks very much. you can read josh's latest story on our website at bloombergpolitics.com or on "bloomberg businessweek." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ i want a hippopotamus for christmas ♪ ♪ only a hippopotamus will do

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with us now on set is the democratic strategist and former congressman from tennessee, harold ford jr. and in our washington, d.c. bureau, we have the political strategist and i believe, still a member, registered

independent. or registered libertarian, i believe. mary matalin. great to see you, mary. i'm going to start with you and ask you this question. how do you think, at this moment, the president-elect is doing? >> i think he's, he's doing great. i mean, what do we ha to judge him by "60 minutes." i think he made a decision on reince as chief of staff, in the andy card mold of making the trains run on time and reince is particularly connected to ryan and a very successful governor. scott walker writes us from the heartland. so he gets the whole rust belt and he's seen successful policies prosecuted in wisconsin by scott walker. so that's good, and i think steve, i don't know him, but i think he's also a good selection. and from what i hear, the rest on the list, and i know the court list, let's go. let's go make america great again. >> harold, what do you think? there's obviously been a huge outcry about the notion of steve bannon, given his pedigree,

given the breitbart -- breitbart's role coarsening our national political discourse. >> i would agree with mary's appraisal so far. i think as it relates to mr. bannon, he's going to have to prove himself. there's no doubt there's a history there with some baggage. this is not democrats making this up. these are former employees and deputies of his at breitbart, making some of these declarations, and even accusations about the company. but i think, overall, i mean, i'm disappointed, my candidate did not win. i think it behooves president-elect trump to make clear again, as many times as he can, he wants to represent and serve all the people. it would probably be good for him at some point to make clear to the country that things that happened during the campaign, were things that happened during the campaign. and people should not interpret him as representing that. and he calls on those who are practicing some of these things in his name, calls on them to stop. and then gets on to governoring. and again, they've got to prove

themselves. and i'm one that's willing to give them a chance to do that. >> guys, as controversial as bannon has been, if john bolton really becomes the secretary of state, that would be controversial for a lot of people, too. harold, you first. what would your reaction be if that happened? >> i was at church over the weekend, and my pastor was trying to caution people saying, look, right now we only know -- we know more about what donald trump is against and what he's for, and hopefully we'll find out in the near-term. and if the bolton choice is made, i think that begins to raise even more concerns as it relates to policy and america's posture around the globe, i would find that disconcerting. i hope the "60 minutes" interview and the temperament and tone he project there had, i understand he's going to pick people, not necessarily in my camp, but i certainly want people who not only want to make america great, but put americans first and america's role is not only to insert and be an interventionist, but to be smart about how we go about doing things. >> mary, i'm hearing bolton and

i'm hearing rudy giuliani as a possible secretary of state. what duo you think of the merit of those two options? >> obviously, let me say something about bannon, who we haven't -- we know -- we think we know a lot about his personal history, but what we really need to focus on is his political imperative, what he's demonstrated in this campaign, which happens to echo the same strategic imperative that bill clinton and apparently keith ellison, who's the top dog now in the dnc race, were -- said were absent from this campaign, which is, appealing to the marginalized rust belt, and to use bill clinton's word, red necks, who have been particularly harmed by obama policies, and have been -- have been dismissed by both parties. so, that's steve's strategy. and if he continues with that strategic imperative and trajectory, that's good. john bolton has said, if we lost half the u.n., it wouldn't change our geopolitical strategic imperative.

and we know what jewel ygiuliann new york. i was in law school when he was in and i could go back into the city. john bolton was there post-9/11 when we were having to face a new strategic imperative, which still exists today. i think both of those would be -- we would be blessed if they joined this administration. >> i want to switch gears, because mary, we only have you for this block and ask you both to reflect on someone you both knew well, gwen ifill. >> well, gwen is -- was a sister. she was a girlfriend. she was of the tim russert era, as she often said, she's a preacher's daughter. so she always tried to do right, no matter what, because someone is always looking. which is how people of faith behave. and she always did. we're going to miss her a lot. >> she was one of the first to accomplish what she accomplished, mark, and she did it to mary's point, with such

dignity and grace. and was such a great example to all journalists, but particularly young black men and women, and she never shied away from that. the way she handled this illness here was also consistent with whom she is. i pray for her family and know that we have lost not only a great journalist, but a great soul. >> mary, let me ask you one last question, because as mark said, you're not going to be on the next block. is there anything you've seen from the president-elect, i know you said you think he's doing great so far, are there any things where you think he's not handling this transition particularly well and advice that you would give him, where you're looking at him and say, you might want to try x or y, it would make your life a little bit easier. >> i think the hardest thing for an incoming administration, having been through a goodly number of them, is to keep grounded and don't listen to -- listen t -- continue to listen to yourself. and continue to hone your discriminating skills, because

people are coming at you, and now everybody loves him. everybody who thought he was a clown and a goof and everything is lining up for jobs. so he'll be getting a lot advice from people that were otherwise considered very important, who are now for him. and he just needs to stay, stay on track. stay where he was. and don't be buffeted around by the kinds of things that have buffeted around and pushed politicians back for the last couple of decades, which has created this perot, nader and trump and bernie phenomenon in the first place. >> all right. mary matalin, thank you for being with us today. harold ford, you're going to stick around, just because we can't get enough of you. we're going to talk about some of those upsetting reports of violence and hate crimes across the country in just a minute. if you're watching us in washington, d.c., you can listen to us on the radio radio bloomberg 99.11 f.m. and we will be right back. yeah, so mom's got this cold.

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about the tenor of the campaign. >> that was more of president obama from his wide-ranging press conference today, talking about donald trump, which was the big topic at the press conference. since the election, hate crimes and incidents of intimidation have been reported on sidewalks, in schools, and in churches all across the country. back with us now to talk about this, former tennessee congressman, democratic strategist, harold ford, and we hope to be joined in a moment from baltimore by the spokeswoman for the council on american islamic relations. congressman ford, we talked earlier. we've been saying since last week, donald trump needs to say more. what would you like him to say if i called him up and said, what would i say? what would be ideal to address this horrible situation? >> i think a lot of what you have said the last few days, you captured it. you nailed it. because everyone who has not said it, said, i'll repeat it. look, the campaign is the

campaign. everyone who believes the things that were said during the campaign, that i'm aligned with people saying they're for white power. they're for engaging in violent acts against african-americans or muslims. others in this country, other minority groups in this country, i'm not for that. with a tough-fought campaign, but the campaign is over and i seek to represent and governor on behalf of the country. he's got to put those in his own words. i thought his tone in "60 minutes" was spot on. but as you guys asked, the selection of a john bolton. does that mean we're going to bolt from nato or cozy up to russia? i think the decisions if he does not settle this first part that the acts of violence and intimidation are not part of what he represents, it's going to be hard for him to governor on the other front and in other spaces. >> zenab, how damage do you think to the national psyche is what's going on now and what would you like to see the president-elect, if anything, do about it? >> well, right now, there's a

lot of fear, i think, and anxiety and concern, especially among marginalized or vulnerable minority groups, who have been targeted and negatively impacted by this toxic election campaign season. and i think we need a leader who can unite our country, who can bring together, you'd, people from both sides of the aisle and calm fears and address some of the core issues that both sides are grappling with. and part of that solution, i think, is specifically appointing stop strategists and advisers who do not have a track reporter of anti-semitism, islamophobia, anti-immigrant, anti-refugee rhetoric that has been, you know, promoted amongst their audience members, like mr. bannon says. >> zainab, let me stay with you and ask you this question. a lot of people on cable television in the last few days seeing what's been happening, have suggested that it would be a good idea for donald trump to do something symbolic, like go visit a mosque, for instance, to

try to extend symbolic olive branch to the muslim american community. do you think that that would be helpful for him to do that, or would that be seen as a kind of token gesture that would do nothing to kind of alleviate concerns that arose out of he campaigned and some of the proposals he put on the table? >> well, we know last night, mr. trump did publicly tell his supporters to stop the hatred and stop the racism. unfortunately, words have to be backed up with action. and the damage that has been done over the course of the last 18, 19 months will be on't be u just by, you know, some sound bites. it's going to take concrete action. and i think the message that was sent to immigrants and minority communities across the nation by the appointment of this current top strategist, mr. bannon, it sends a signal that he's not ready to unite the country. he is not ready to heal some of

the wounds that have been inflicted over the past 18 months. reaching out to the american muslim community, specifically, would be a strong gesture of, you know -- or show that he's making an effort to unite the country and, you know, address some of the concerns of the muslim community. american muslim community. this has been an especially difficult time for many americans, but especially american muslims in the sense that we have seen an unprecedented level of islamophobia in the united states, during this, you know, past 18 months. and just in the days following the announcement of the election results, we saw the number of hate crimes biased attacks, incidents of discrimination, bullying, just spike tremendously, even post-9/11. it's a really concerning time for our communities. >> i want to ask you what you think is happening in the democratic world? obviously, a huge amount of chaos and recrimination. keith ellison maybe going to be the next dnc chair. just give us a snapshot of how

the democratic party is coping right now, and what the road ahead looks like for your party. >> i think there's ambiguity on both fronts. i think people are hurt, surprised, shocked by what has happened. the reactions, i think, you see in the streets are not only reaction to what this young lady so eloquently stated, the kind of climate that exists out there. but politically speaking, the clinton family has been such an integral part of this democratic party. my entire adult life, they have essentially been the leaders. and nationally, president obama has been president the last eight years, but bill clinton has been such a supersized and outsized influence. the clintons remain part of the party, but it's clearly a transition being made. we've got to think about a message. clinton brought in a message with mary's husband. it's the economy, stupid, and refocused democrats, reempowering the middle class. donald trump was able to do that very well this election, better than our candidate. we've got to -- we've got to zero in on a message and a platform that allows us to do that. i think keith ellison is a

friend, he's a very good congressman. i hope that as this process unfolds and maybe he stays in the race, others get in the race, i want to hear the kind of commitment that these candidates are going to have to not only the party, but helping to develop a platform, and how willing they are to go out across the country, particularly in the rust bethlt, and reconne with voters that should be democrat, because our country represents the best chance for not only the middle class americans to grow, but see their kids grow beyond their means. >> all right, harold ford jr., thank you very much. zainab chaudry, thank you very much. coming up, donny deutsch, the big-haired brash man from queens, the other big-haired brash man from queens, joins us right after this. and i wouldn't want to mess with that. but when (my) back pain got bad, i couldn't sleep. i had trouble getting there on time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last into the morning.

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now for -- in the prompter, it says, daily dose of donny -- i hope not. a dose of donny. the chairman emeritus of

deutscdonny incorporated. >> first time i'm a guest. >> so you're here because you think you can make the country feel slightly better, people who are freaked out about donald trump, you have some advice for how to calm the situation down. >> here's the cautious optimism, despite bannon, which speaks for itself. i like to analyze the guy. and there are four components this guy has. i talked about it this morning. i said, you know what, this might work out okay. number one, he is transactional. and we all know what he did during the campaign, and that's not going to be the formula to win as a president. number two, he feeds to be loved. and he needs to be loved by frankly the -- what i'll call the elite class that he ran against, because that's his world. he doesn't want to be booed in new york city when he goes to vote. he doesn't want to be booed when he walks into -- this is a human being. this is what makes this guy tick. he's also a contrarian. and everybody's expecting him to come in and move far to the right.

and in his own way, he's going to kind of flip the bird. and i think the combination of those things, to me, give a certain amount of hope that we might get a surprise -- and his ego. he does not want to go down as richard nixon. he wants to be great. he wants to be teddy roosevelt. so i look at the map an and the motives. the one thing he has to do, and howard said it, my mother would say it, he needs to walk things back. he needs to -- if he is a leader. and if he doesn't do this, there's no explanation. it's that simple, it's a challenge. there's no other way to do it, to come out and say, there is no room for hate. absolutely. i'm going to be a law and order candidate against that. if he doesn't do twhab that is a very bad one. it's an easy one. you could write that speech, i could write that speech, it has to happen. >> donny, i want to go to the first thing on your list, transactional. if he's dealing with paul ryan and conservative members of the house and he doesn't want to go as far to the right on things as them, what do you think happens

then? how does trump react, how does republicans react? >> i don't think he's worrying about how anybody reacts, as far as within washington. and when i say transactional, it's, what is the win. to him, transactional means, how does he the get what he needs to get to. and that may be alienating or befriending paul ryan. it depends what the situation is. my point when i say transactional is, he looks at the goal line, how do i get there, and he gets there. >> so, donny, why should i, if i'm a voter who's concerned about trump, you picked a series of personality traits. he's transactional, he's this, he's that. why should i as a voter not say, well, he's also a racist and a xenophobe and a misogynist and a confessed sexual predator. those are the things we learned in the campaign. why should i -- if i were that voter, why should i not focus on those -- >> because number one, we can't unvote him. i'm a former ceo, trying to rally my organization, and trying to say, what he did was despicable. there was nobody that was more anti-trump than me.

but the vaereality is now, you can't protest from day one. you lose your credibility. you say, prove it to me. i'm from missouri, show me. now he starts making the wrong series of hires across the board. he does not give that speech, he does not reach out. then you do it. but the way you are an effective protester or an effective contrarian is by starting out and going here. it's yours. that's what i'm trying to do, but he has to walk those things back. you're not effective off the bat you go, nah nah, nah nah poo poo. more people voted for him as far as an electoral college vote. >> just to be clear, i don't think these protesters are saying, nah nah, nah nah, poo poo. >> i heard one coming in. >> donny deutsch, always a pleasure to have you on the show. you'll be back later this week and we'll be back much sooner with more thoughts about gwen ifill. my belly pain and constipation?

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as we have discussed throughout the program, america lost one of its premiere political journalists today, gwen ifill, the host of pbs's

"washington week in review," gwen was one of the most powerful and influential reporters in the country. she was also a very gentle soul. she started out as a newspaper reporter, including working at "the new york times," and then she switched to tv. doing all she did as an african-american woman is one of the truly great achievements of journalism in the past half century. gwen did what she did with honor, integrity, grace, humor, and passion. she was a mentor to scores and scores of political reporters, including to me. i remember covering bill clinton's 1992 presidential campaign, she taught me like she taught so many others, both by example and instruction, that the twin responsibilities of journalism are to tell the stories of our time and to hold all powerful interests accountable to the public interest, and john, i'm certain she would want all of us to think about how to cover this new president, who has not always showed respect for journalists or the first amendments or the public interests as aggressively and as a fairly as possible.

>> let alone for african-americans and for women. so, gwen would have been an indispensable voice in terms of covering donald trump and holding him accountable for some of his worst moments as a public figure. the two things that stand out to me, i've known her for -- i knew her for a long time, was always very impressed with two things about her. one, even though she became an iconic television figure, she had the heart and soul of a newspaper reporter, which is how she came in. but she was never -- she was never part of the high and mighty. she never was like a tv pundit. she was always interested in the facts. and in being a reporter, as much as she was a commentator about anything. and the other thing, those elements of her identity, the african-american heritage, the female heritage. in fact, she was a black woman in a rare place of power for someone with those -- with that background, infused her outlook and gave her a unique perspective on politics and on life in the nation's capital, that really made her an important part of how we came to

understand our time in politics and beyond. >> we're all going to miss her. we're missing her already. until tomorrow, john and i will be back then. sayonara. >> "hardball with chris matthews" starts now. warning signs. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. so what message is donald trump sending about the direction of his presidency? over the weekend, the president-elect announced two key hires. reince priebus, the chairman of the republican national committee, will serve as his white house chief of staff. steve bannon, the former head of the far-right breitbart news will serve as his chief strategist. well, according to the press release, the two men will work as, quote, equal partners, closed quote, in the white house. bannon's appointment