important part of how we came to understand our time in politics and beyond. >> we're all going to miss her. we're missing her already. until tomorrow, john and i will be back then. sayonara. >> "hardball with chris matthews" starts now. warning signs. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. so what message is donald trump sending about the direction of his presidency? over the weekend, the president-elect announced two key hires. reince priebus, the chairman of the republican national committee, will serve as his white house chief of staff. steve bannon, the former head of the far-right breitbart news will serve as his chief strategist. well, according to the press release, the two men will work as, quote, equal partners, closed quote, in the white house. bannon's appointment has rattled a number of civil rights groups,

and even some republicans, as nbc's benji sarlin wrote, under bannon's guidance, breitbart served as a hub for pro-trump, anti-immigration, especially anti-muslim agit problem. breitbart news appealed to the far right with headlines such as this, hoist it high and proud, the confederate flag proclaims a glorious heritage. gabby giffords -- the gun control movement's human shield. would you rather your child had feminism or cancer? planned parenthood's body count under cecile richards is up to half a holocaust. and, data, young muslims in the west are a ticking time bomb, increasingly sympathizing with radicals terror. in response to bannon's hire, republican strategist john weaver, an adviser to john kasich's 2016 campaign for president tweeted, the racist, fascist extreme right has

represented footsteps from the oval office. be very vigilant, america. "weekly standard" bill kristol wrote, is there precedent for such a disreputable and unstable in the oval office before bannon? the heads of the naacp also criticized hiring bannon. today president obama was asked about bannon's hire. let's watch his response. >> it would not be appropriate for me to comment on every appointment that the president-elect starts making. the people have spoken. donald trump will be the next president, the 45th president of the united states. and it will be up to him to set up a team that he thinks will serve him well and reflect his policies. it takes a while for people to reconcile themselves with that new reality. hopefully it's a reminder that elections matter. i think it's important for us to

let him make his decisions and i think the american people will judge over the course of the next couple of years whether they like what they see. >> well, meanwhile today, protests continued against donald trump's election. students from schools in silver spring, maryland, and los angeles, simply walked out. joining me now, "usa today's" washington bureau chief, susan pa page, mother jones washington bureau chief, david corn, and the former chair of the republican national committee, michael steele pinpoi. i want to start with david. i've never really been a student of steve bannon. i knew breitbart, when he was trouble. what do you think of -- well, give me the gravity of this decision? to put him right in the white house. >> i think this is a stunning historic decision in a bad way. stephen bannon has said, you've got to lay this out a little bit so people understand it, that he wanted brbreitbart, the far-rig

news service, to be a platform for the alt-right. the alt-right is an ill-defined, loos loose-knit collection of the conservative coalition. what they want, a lot of them, is a white america. they say this explicitly, that white nationalists, some say they're even white supremacists. and steve bannon said he wanted to be a platform for -- >> let me just ask you, people who are learning this alt-right thing now, unfortunately, have to learn it. >> unfortunately. >> how do you have an all-white american when basically native americans were here first and starting in the 17th century, when the african-americans came in here as slaves, they're a part of america, part of the vein -- how do you create a white america? where do you build this white america? north america, where we are now? where do you build it? >> there's a guy named richard spencer who is the intellectual guru of the movement, according to breitbart, and he says, basically, this is the benign

version, that he wants to convince non-whites to leave america, because the races can't get along, and it's better if they're separate. >> this is steve bannon, the guy who's going into the white house? >> no, this is a guy who is in the alt-right movement that steve bannon made common cause, that he says, he admits to this, at brit braeitbart. it's quite stunning that a guy, who's not a white nationalist himself, played footsie and supported white nationalists while he was at breitbart. people scream about this, trump supporters. it is completely undeniable. i wrote this up today at mother jones, people can go look -- >> it's very disgusting. >> michael, why would you put somebody with that kind of baggage and that kind of outlook on america, what defines america to him, inside the west wing of the white house. >> i think in large measure, because donald trump doesn't look at it through that lens. he doesn't seen bannon that way. he sees him as someone that he

has confidence in, that helped him secure success at the ballot box last tuesday. and will be a part of his administration. i just took note of the fact that he referred to bannon and trump as, excuse me, and reince priebus, as equals. and there is no equal to the chief of staff in the west wing. but now there is. so, that should be something that people also need to pay a lot of attention to. i know a lot of folks in the party are, because they don't know what that means. but as far as donald trump is concerned, bannon is his main guy. it's his muse, someone who is in his head, that he listens to, that advises him. he's his consigliere. and unless there's something that i think is very overt, maybe what our friend, mr. corn has written, gets publicized and more of this narrative is out there, then we'll see how donald trump deals with it. >> let's get back to the reality of the oval office and how it

works. president of the united states gets up in the morning. somebody decides -- well, he decides what newspapers he wants to read, what morning shows he'll want to watch. knowing trump, he'll watch "morning joe" and fiddle around with "fox & friends," and then he'll decide how he's doing that day. he may look at a newspaper, but about 8:00 in the morning, the president of the united states is given his daily presidential briefing. he also meets with his chief of staff, who's already met with the under chiefs of staff, the deputies. and that's his day, pretty much run by -- now we're finding out in addition to reince priebus, there's this other soul that's going to be in the room all the time as a co-equal, this consigliere, with these views. how would he want someone with those views? >> first of all, they won't be equal. because if reince priebus is, in fact, the chief of staff, he is the most important staffer the president has. and it is not unusual for presidents to set up some competing power centers, as

ronald reagan did, but there's nothing like being the chief of staff, which has so much say over what the president reads, who the president sees, who's the last person the president talks to before he makes a decision. so that's one reason, i think, that a lot of establishment republicans in town were greatly reassured that reince priebus was, even if they were appalled, and i think many of them were appalled, that steve bannon was named into this central position. was remember, there's no confirmation process for the staffers that the president puts around him at the white house. those are the people he chooses to have around him and listen to. >> what about the minorities -- michael, you're a minority. the fact is, i hear a lot of people are scared. is this going to make them less scared that breitbart's guy, that steve bannon is in the white house with the president's ear? >> evidently not. that's what's driving a lot of the angst you see out there. they don't know what this means. they take what they have learned from the breitbart website and

from stuff that they may associate with steve bannon and that sort of fuels this. but i want to go back to something susan said. i don't know if that scenario plays out exactly the way you think it -- the way you said it, susan. that you know, reince is going to have that kind of access and control, yes. but i'm not sure he'll be the last or the first person to get in the president's ear with bannon there. that's not how this worked in the campaign. and bannon was so someone, as i understood it, that donald trump really, really looked to, to help him sort of navigate some of these heavier waters. it was reince who did the boots on the ground, the practical, political stuff. but in terms of what the message was and how donald trump was going to lay out his campaign every day, that was steve and the family and trump. >> well, here's something more to worry about. "the wall street journal" reported today that the leading

candidates for secretary of state are rudy giuliani and former ambassador to the united nations, john bolton. what would that do to diplomacy? what would it look like under secretary of state bolton? last year, bolton called on the united states to bomb iran. let's watch. >> just azriel twice before has struck nuclear weapons programs the in the hands of hostile states, i'm afraid given the circumstances, that's the only real option open to us now. >> right now, are you seeing into the future? >> no, i would have done this five or six years ago, because the early you strike, the more damage you can do. >> that was gretchen carlson, over there, the erstwhile reporter. >> the unwith position that trump took a stand on was he was against the iraq war, even though it wasn't true. he kept saying again and again, i was against the war before it started, which isn't the case. john bolton is the neocon's neocon. he was a hawk straight down the

line. he wants to bomb iran six years ago. trump says we shouldn't be involved in these middle east wars, yet here he is talking about literally the most frahawh guy around. so it makes you wonder what donald trump really believes in. and my theory is, nothing. >> susan, where do i go? i get the feeling that every time trump wants to do something really frightening, he softens it by saying, we might go the ore w other way. we've got reince priebus and it might be rudy. this makes rudy look sort of good, doesn't it? do you want rudy or do you want king kong? i mean, it's just unbelievable! these choices you're getting. a moderate would say, i think rudy would be more moderate. >> so then we'd be more

reassured. the washington establishment reassured by rudy giuliani as secretary of state. >> where's richard haas and steve hadlin? where's the moderate republicans in all of this. >> steve hadley is an interesting option. he is somebody who is familiar to power, served in the white house, and did not oppose trump the way a lot of the republican foreign policy establishment did. but his name was not on that list, at least at the moment. >> i've got to thank you all. michael, do you want to the last ten-second thought. you know you want it really bad? you think reince priebus? you think rudy's scary? how about bolton. i'll talk at the end show about -- i was at church yesterday, leonard cohen got sung, "hallelujah" got sung on "saturday night live." a pretty mournful mood in the country. i feel some of that, too. there's the scary feeling in the country, which is different than the sadness and soulfulness. and somebody like bolton is going to add to the size of that scared group. i'm telling you. michael, your thoughts? >> that may be, but what i find

the most intriguing is that for the candidate that ran outside the system, he's now bringing a lot of that system inside of his administration. and i know for a lot of conservatives out there, certainly a lot of those reagan democrats who came back to the fold, they're concerned about whether or not he's really going to drain the swamp, when he's bri bringing some of the swamp into the house. interesting to see how this plays out. scary or not. >> my god, which swamp we talking about? anyway, thank you, susan page. all you guys are an important part of the american place. michael steele, i'm watching you. i don't know what you think right now. you seem to be getting soft on this guy. are you? >> no, baby, no. not at all. a lot of curiosity. >> we're all watching. it's one of those -- like invasion of the body snatchers. when you talk about to somebody, all of a sudden, yeee! they're one of them. reince priebus and kellyanne conway both defended the hiring to have steve bannon. let's watch that.

>> that was some articles in breitbart. it wasn't him. >> but he was the head. the buck stops with him. >> the guy i know is a guy who isn't any of those things. he is a guy who is pretty -- he's very, very smart. very temperament. >> frankly, people should look at the full resume. he's got a harvard business degree, he's a naval officer, he has success in entertainment, i don't know if you're aware of that, and he certainly was a goldman sachs manager and partner. brilliant technician. >> in a press release today, senator jeff merkley of oregon called on the president-elect to rescind the bannon appointment. quote, donald trump just invited a white nationalist into the highest reaches of our government. joining me right now is senator merkley, thank you. thank you so much, senator from oregon. what do you think -- do you think there's a chance he could knock this guy off and get get rid of him after he just named him? what dupg he can get done here? >> i think it would be very hard for trump to reverse it immediately.

but in this type of position, someone can certainly be sidelined. and as david was speaking of him as the muse, kind of as the spiritual leader to guide president trump, his scathis is stuff and a big mistake by the president. at the same time, he's saying he wants to unite america, pivot from the campaign. he's proceeding to put next -- in the chair next to him, an individual who is a major divider, a major driver of hate speech. and thousands of americans are protesting rht now in cities across america, because of that hate speech, the attacks on hispanics, attacks on african-americans. and a person who has been behind a lot of it is steve bannon. yeah, it's a shocking appointment. >> let's talk about the protesters. because we saw them in new york, on fifth avenue. a powerful fight to see all of these, mostly young people, in their 20s, coming down with a lot of steam behind them. let me ask you about this.

my son was out there over the weekend, down in los angeles, he's out there protesting. i understand people are -- is it the protest the reality we now have to confront, or is it to try to turn trump away from his worst ways? what do you think a protest can get done at this point? >> i think the protesters are saying, look, we as communities in america are very anxious, very fearful. we don't agree with the divisiveness, the driving wedges between groups in america, the attacks on muslims, on women, on veterans, on hispanics, on african-americans. and it's just a way of people using their feet in the street to urge president-elect trump to make a pivot and actually pursue a strategy of lifting up americans, rather tearing them down. >> well-said. i love portland, by the way. and portland is really one of the great last regiments of the left. i always figure, if the left ever dies in america, the last stand will be in portland.

thank you. we're cheering them on, sir. thank you, senator jeff merkley of oregon. coming up, the first journalist to interview donald trump since the election. i'll talk to lesley stahl of "60 minutes." what she saw when she sat down with trump and what didn't come across on tv. my favorite question, what couldn't you see on the tube? and does trump understand the enormity of the job ahead of him. and how do democrats deal with republicans who now control all levers of government. the courts, the congress, the presidency? and with friends like these, the "hardball" roundtable connects some of donald trump's connections to leading figures of the fringe right and what it means for his presidency, already. and finally, let me finish with trump watch. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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veteran journalist gwen ifill died today. she started as a reporter with "the new york times" and "the washington post" before coming over to television back in the 1990s. she covered politics for us here at nbc news, before moving to pbs. well, eight years ago, ifill moderated the vice presidential debate between joe biden and sarah palin, as well as the 2004 vice presidential debate between dick cheney and john edwards. ifill is remembered as a standard-bearer for courage, fairness and integrity. [burke] at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a rodent ride-along. [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. december 14th, 2015. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

welcome back to "hardball." nearly 19 million people tuned in yesterday to watch the first sit-down interview with president-elect donald trump and his family. in the wide-ranging interview, "60 minutes" correspondent lesley stahl asked him about the gravity of the situation and whether it has sunk in yet. here he goes. >> on election night, i heard you went completely silent.

was it a sort of realization of the enormity of this thing for you? >> i think so. i think so. it's enormous. i've done a lot of big things. i've never done anything like this. it is -- it is so big. it is so -- it's so enormous. it's so amazing. >> kind of just took your breath away? couldn't talk? >> a little bit. a little bit. and i think i realized that this is a whole different life for me now. >> just a few days later, "the new york times" reported that donald trump wants to split his time between new york and d.c., because he's still coming to grips with the fact that his life was going to change radically. he also reported that his advisers were holding o out the possibility that the president-elect may spend more time in the white house as he grows less overwhelmed and more comfortable in the job. more of what we saw in that interview and didn't see, we're joined by lesley stahl. lesley, it's a held of a get, and i have to ask you about my favorite question to all reporters and anchors, what didn't you see on tv? when he came in with the family,

the way he treated different members of the family, how he seemed to be? what did you -- tell us anything you know that we didn't see on the tube? >> not ally. we put in almost every single that happened, really. we had two hours with him. we put an hour on, and really, the things we left out were just repetitions. he came across both in the room and on television as someone who wanted to convey a sense of calmness, a sense that he gets the enormity, the gravity of his new job. and that he's going to take it quite seriously. he said, he blamed the press for the image that was conveyed during the campaign. he blamed the press for everything that went wrong, saying that he was portrayed as a wild man. well, maybe that is what came through and he wanted very much to say that -- he said it flat-out, i'm a sober person and i can take this job with

complete, total seriousness. and i think in many ways, he may have accomplished what he set out to. i was swamped with e-mails today from people saying, i was reassured, and then today, he goes out and he kind of steps on the message he was trying to send, by naming bannon. so, you know, it's kind of a -- he hurt himself -- first he helped himself, and then i don't know about today. >> there's tauls two politicians. there's the one we get to meet ba backstage and the one we meet on television. certainly with secreta clinton. in person, she's not as stiff. but trump, what you said, there's no difference between the guy we see on the tube and the guy you saw in the room with you, in those two hours. >> well, you're in a room. he's not going to be on a stage screaming, but in what he said, not just how he presented himself, which i thought was, in fact, serious and somber,

almost, but even his words, there was no hyperbole, there was no boasting, there was very little combativeness, except towards the press, which was pretty much constant through the interview. >> what's the beef? if anything, the people on the left have criticized us, and many people, for giving him so much air time. the guy got more free time than anybody ever got because he puts on a show. it's schick. it's what made him a showbiz favorite. >> well, i think when the mainstream press started to call him out for his untruths, and really started naming them, he felt that it was unfair. health that the press was siding with hillary clinton and it's gnawing at him. and, you know, he says, flat-out, he has said it many times, if you're nice to me, i'll be nice to you.

but if you attack me in any way, i'll come at you like a tiger. he goes down to the white house. he'd been attacking president obama, viciously, for years. and president obama greets hip and he's gracious and he's generous with his time. and now, donald trump says, the most kind things about him. and the same with hillary. hillary clinton made a phone call and praised him for kind of campaign he ran. and boom! nice things about hillary. he feels the press came after him. he feels that, in his heart. and he's still going to strike out. >> well -- >> he also said, chris, he also said that we're over. that the way to communicate is through social media and he believes that. he believes that's why he won. he said that. that's why i won. and we'll see, though. we'll see. you've said a lot tonight already about how much he wants

to appeal to the establishment and the press is part of the establishment. so let's see what happens on that front. >> yeah, ronald reagan ran against the establishment and came to washington and had dinner with katherine graham and george will and found his way. and bill clinton ran to the left of center, i guess, just a little bit left, and the first thing he did was have a meeting with all those businesspeople down in arkansas. there are ways to jump over the fence and come out the winner. leslie, you're the greatest. what that great scoop. i think you made a lot of news last night, especially with trump coming out saying he definitely is for knocking off roe v. wade. and i just think -- >> wow. wow. >> didn't that amaze you when he said, we'll let people go to different states to have the procedure. that's not stopping -- yeah, go ahead. >> what's interesting is, marriage equality is settled, he was very clear about that, but roe v. wade, he didn't go there, so, yeah -- >> and the idea of being pro-life means simply, get into a car and drive to jersey o drive to a state that's pro-choice didn't seem to me the

spirit of pro-life. it just means, you know, mechanical. if you have a car, go somewhere and have your abortion. it just seems strange in terms of spirituality. >> but almost on all the issues i asked about, almost, he did seem open to compromise. he did. and a whole range of them, including the lobbyists. that was the one that was the most interesting in a way. that he's got lobbyists running his -- well, not running, but dominating his transition team, when he wants to clear them out, you know? >> he may have been playing to your sobriety and your good sense. and he also was playing to your huge, as you would say, audience. huge! >> huge! my husband was joking today, saying the nfl is going to come to "60 minutes" and ask us to lead into them. >> yeah, well, you did with it bill clinton, you know, i'm no tammy wynette. you know how to do it. thank you, lesley stahl. up next, democrats are

picking up the pieces after last weeks's election defeat. tonight, they have new plans about how they will counter donald trump and who will lead them. that's going to be fascinating. who's going to lead the dnc? a lot of thought behind a lot of action and juice behind keith ellison from minnesota. lots of it. lots of it. this is "hardball," the place for politics. i was stoked. that's my holiday. we invented it. so i'm like, "pass the stuffing!" and... it's not stove top. and i'm like, "what?" i wait all year. 364 days to enjoy delicious stove top stuffing. it's what makes thanksgiving, thanksgiving. i had to get out of there. i faked an attack of scurvy. scurvy. works every time.

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and so i think it's a healthy thing for the democratic part to go through some reflection. you know, i think it's important for me, not to be bigfooting that conversation. i think we want to see new voices and new ideas emerge. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president obama this afternoon, discussing the state of his democratic party. and that is his party. the democrats are facing a test of leadership right now, in potentially three hot contests, all happening once, to signal changes in what's going to be post-obama world. the first is the race for the democratic national committee chair, which is becoming a crowded field of candidates, including minnesota congressman keith ellison, who has use behind him, officially announced his run today. he has the support of bernie sanders and harry reid. also interested in the race is secretary of labor, tom perez, former maryland governor, martin

o'malley, howard dean, south carolina party chair, jamie harrison, new hampshire party chair, ray buckley, and missouri's secretary of state, jason kander. he ran for the senate and lost to roy blunt. in the senate, washington state senator patty murray is rumored to be considering a challenge to democratic whip dick durbin. now there could be a competitive race to be his number two. that's a secret ballot race. that's always fascinating. on the house side, nancy pelosi has led democrats to victories in defeats for nearly 13 years now, could face a challenge of her own as talk grows about a new direction for the party in the house. a group of roughly 20 house democrats spearheaded by seth moulton has urged them to delay their conversations until the party can better assess what went wrong last tuesday and map out a pace forward. kasie hunt is a democratic correspondent and jim is a strategist. if you lose the popular vote and you can get solace from that,

you lost and you lost the presidency when you should have won it. the knives are out. the knives are always out, as they should be. i love this part of politics. when your party loses, the knives come out. there must be punishment, to quote donald trump, there needs to be some form of punishment. there has to be. jamal, who's going to get the ax? who's going to get hurt by this? because they lost. >> i don't know that there's anybody left to be hurt. everybody's pretty banged up. >> no, no, no, nancy pelosi and chuck schumer all back hillary down the line. >> the first thing that people are going to do, people are starting to pay more attention to the clinton campaign and the fact that clinton didn't have a message. you heard a lot from hillary clinton this weekend -- >> did anybody say that two weeks ago? why didn't people say that two weeks ago? >> people were saying it back behind the scenes, but nobody was listening for months about the fact they didn't have a message, right? so i think this is something that's going to be a problem, in general. now, what happens going forward? i think there's some resistance

to keith ellison right now. one, he's a member of congress. there might be some resistance out of the white house, because they have some tough relations that have been going on there for a coup of times. some stuff about maybe some staff interaction. he's going to be a little bit of a the ever road even though he's out ahead. and i have been a part of races before, and i think this is going to be a very tough race, that is decided in the country, not by chuck schumer and the people in decide. >> go ahead. he's single, by the way. he's african-american, he's a muslim, at a time they're trying to win back the angry white man, that might be the right signal. who knows how these things work? >> i think diversity is important to moat democrats for this particular post. i don't think this is going to change it. but i what i do think is that there is a reckoning coming for chuck schumer and nancy pelosi and anybody who made fun of bernie sanders. i think there is a real sense of "i told you so" from these progressives and frankly it's coming from the voters. and you're seeing chuck schumer

and nancy pelosi try to make these overtures to progressives. trying to say, look, we're going to wrap you in, we're going to make you a part of this government. i don't know if people are going to buy it. >> it's us a a good argument, because you can't disprove it. there's no way to prove that bernie couldn't have beat donald trump. here's bernie sanders, the senator vermont, on "the view" earlier today talking about what went wrong with hillary clinton. let's watch. >> i like hillary clinton and i worked to get her elected. but i think it is fair to say that the working class of this country did not believe that she was prepared to stand up and fight for them. >> he's right. he's right. and i'll tell you, what it felt like is that donald trump was gulliver and the rest of us were lilliputians trying to tie him down all the time. and in that scenario, you want to be gulliver, because you can pull people away. that's something hillary never got ahead of. >> thank you. i've been thinking about lilliputians, do you live up in the air and look down on everybody else? >> but they didn't used to be that way.

even in 2008, white working class people, they were hillary clinton's people. they voted for her in states like west virginia and kentucky in the primary against barack obama. and somewhere since then, the democratic part lost, and i think the clintons as well, lost their way. and she suddenly was perceived as the candidate who was more likely to go behind doors at goldman sachs and told lloyd blankphine that everybody was going to be okay. >> it sends a signal you're in the winner's circle. you're not trying to get the vote out. >> all that's fine, but if you have a message that says, i'm for you -- >> why did they go with that? >> at one point, they had one little man in a hat. by the time it was over, there were a million people wearing those goofy hats. >> can i tell you old democratic thinking? why weren't they for working wages? jobs, jobs, jobs. he came out for infrastructure. i guess they're afraid of being big spenders. >> free college, tuition -- >> no, jobs. >> rebuild this country. >> there were so many younger

voters that cast protest votes, if they had voted for her in states like michigan and pennsylvania and wisconsin, she might be on the other side of this wish's circle right now. >> i think goat because to become to the lessons that the clintons learned in the 1990s. >> they were bad lessons. >> for this time, they were the wrong lessons. hey, if you're too liberal, you can't get elected. got to go to the center and be free trade. >> i remember -- >> you've got to be a champion for somebody. everybody knows who donald trump was a champion for. who was hillary clinton a champion for? >> well, bill was a champion for people who work hard and play by the rules. who was hillary clinton a champion for? >> i don't know. >> and that's part of the problem. >> i know. >> unfortunately, it looked like she was a champion of her donors. that's what it looked like. >> i think that's how -- >> she is a champion for working people, she was. she didn't do it. >> she's in pain, and i mean that. just think about that. >> that's got to be really tough. but listen, we as democrats, we've got to figure out what what really went wrong and have an honest conversation about it. and that's why more people have to talk about what went wrong in

the campaign. >> go up what happened in washington county. >> find out what happened in detroit. >> when you went there, you could tell. >> everybody wants to do it your way. you want to say, we've got to get minorities to show up with more excitement. and there's also the people in the small town who is don't like the democratic party today. >> but we haven't won those voters in a long time. and i'll tell you what, mitt romney won the same split on white women -- i'm sorry, trump won the same split on white women than hillary clinton did. and she couldn't get the people of color who voted for barack obama. >> are you kissing off the poor whites and the working class whites? >> we've got to do both. thank you, bobby kennedy, we can do it. thank you, kasie and jamal simmons. here's another thought, donald trump is embracing the hard right. we'll get to that next with the "hardball" roundtable. think about john bolton as secretary of state. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ordinary tissues left dakota's nose sore and red.

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welcome back to "hardball." while it's clear that trump's selection of steve bannon as his chief white house strategist has enraged people, bannon is also a polarizing figure among republicans. as the hill reported, bannon often told his colleagues at breitbart that, quote, paul ryan is the enemy, in a 2015 memo that the long game is to have him, ryan, gone by spring. as a source said, hepgs paul ryan is part of a conspiracy with george soros and paul singer, in wch elitists want to bring one world to government. even conservative commentator glenn beck today described the prospect of bannon in the white house as terrifying. let's watch him. >> he's a nightmare. and he's the chief adviser to the president of the united states now. bannon has a clear tie to white nationalists. clear tie. he is a guy who has -- wants to tear this system down and

replace it with a new system. he is -- he is a frightening -- no, no, no. he is a terrifying man. terrifying man. >> i'm joined right now by the roundtable, bengie sarlin, to my left is an nbc news political reporter, molly ball covers politics for the "the atlantic" and jason johnson is politics editor for "the root." benji, you can start, you've been working on this all week. tell me why a person should be afraid of steve bannon in the white house, in the west wing? >> well, this is the concern. there hasn't been someone like steve bannon in a republican administration. he's been this very kind of burn it all down, inflammatory site that's had pretty aggressive efforts to play up the alt-right and try to bring in this audience that really gets into issues of white nationalism, that you discussed earlier. and that's a scary prospect for a lot of republicans, who really have instinctively recoiled from this. during the campaign, they try to paint the distinction, where, we love the mike pence part of the

campaign and we love it when he sounds like a normal republican. and we'll just kind of ignore that breitbart wing that's talking about strange muslim conspiracies and talking about banning muslims. you're not going to be able to do that when it's one of the most powerful people in the white house, who has the president's ear every day. that's the point where it's going to start affecting policy, affecting how you appeal to people. it's -- so it's putting them in this bind now, where once again, people are trying to put their head in the sand. i was on the hill today. republicans are just starting to stream in for the lame duck session, but you're hearing nary a peep about steve bannon so far. so far, people don't really want to talk about him. >> how do you read his nationalism? what does he bring to the table every day? he sits in the oval office with the president of the united states, who's trying to figure out what to do right now, and here he is listening to this guy. >> let's be clear about this. "the new york times" did a story about this last year. there have been more people killed in america by white nationalist extremist groups than jihadis.

so a website that supports those beliefs and supports white nationalism and the far right, you basically have a chief adviser who is a terrorist sympathizer. that is what these people are. now, you can call it alt-right, people want to call it alt-right, those are basically the guys who don't want to get their knuckles bloody, but encourage dylan roof to go out and do what he did. and stephen bannon is in favor of that kind of police chief, he has given a home for those kind of people in our website. >> who are we talking about here? who'd he encourage to do what? >> the breitbart website encourages people to disseminate their beliefs. and less-smart people go out and commit violent acts and therefore he is a danger to domestic security. >> molly, i want you to get in here. because alex jones, the right-wing radio host of info wars who also believes the 9/11 truther conspiracy said this morning that trump called him to thank him and his listeners. nbc news has not independently verified that conversation, but here's how jones described it. >> on my way here, donald trump gave me a call. and i told him, mr.

president-elect, you're too busy, we don't need to talk, but we spent over five minutes, he said, i just talked to kings and queens of the world, you name it, but i want to thank you to thank your audience. and he said, is this a private call? he said, no, i want to thank your viewers and listener for standing up. >> as you can figure just listening to that guy, jones is best known for peddling conspiracy theories about the left and last month called obama and hillary clinton demons. >> literal dmemons? >> she is an abject, psychopathic demon from hell. they think she's demon possessed. i'm told her and obama just stink, stink, stink. you can't wash that evil off, man. obama and hillary both smell like sulfur. >> demons, he means it. it's not a joke or a metaphor. >> he means literal demons. it's not a metaphor. we have a preview of what it sounds like when donald trump has stephen bannon and alex jones in his ear, because it's

been the case for this entire campaign. with stephen bannon writing the rhetoric that was coming out of his mouth every day on the campaign trail, when he was talking about a globalist cabal of bankers and elites that hillary clinton was trying to rig the system and steal the presiden. as benjy was saying, i think a lot of republicans hoped that trump would get into office and forget about all of that and sign the ryan budget and do whatever republicans in congress wanted. and this is proof that these guys are coming with him to the white house. people like steve bannon are actually his belief system. and stephen bannon doesn't believe in the old left versus right paradox. >> the happy people now are saying, he's transactional. he only cut those deals with the crazies to get here. but it looks like he's not transactional. looks like these communal. >> the roundtable is staying with us, and up next, these guys will tell me more things i don't know. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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know. >> trump was ending this populism but it's going around the world and there's a global celebration going on among far right leaders in europe. there's the dutch world leaders, the la pen family in france. it's anti-immigration, anti-trade, general skepticism, especially of foreign institutions where you have to surrender any kind of sovereignty or make any kind of an agreement and they've been celebrating trump his entire run and they think it's a sign that they, too, will be in power. those that are not already. >> molly? >> hold on. you first. >> i don't want to steal molly's thunder. we're all sad about gwen ifill's passing. and we should ignore racism because that's the only way

african-americans can truly be accepted into society. >> be rich. >> be rich, yes. and then you'll be fine. >> it's sort of the george jefferson thing, "moving on up." >> and in a deluxe apartment in the sky. molly? >> this is nothing you don't know but my friend gwen ifill is one of the best people in washington and in a city full of phony, she was the least pretentious and i'm going to miss her so very much. >> aw. it shows you can be a great journalist without being a big shot. >> absolutely. >> thank you, benjy, molly and jason. we'll be right back.

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let me finish tonight with this. trump watch. november 14th, 2016. i can feel much of the country's mood right now on "saturday night live" kate mckinnon singing "hallelujah" and then the choir sang it again because much of america is in a soulful mood right now but some of it is downright scared. our son was marching in this weekend protests against the election and through this -- right through this, i try hard to do this job, this job of bringing the news to people wanting to know what happened today, what it might mean, how i'm weighing it personally, how i'm using my knowledge of american history and put it in perspective and try to keep the boat stable as we head down the river of more history. that's what the country is making right now. believe it or not, like it or

not, american history. this is us going through this. some moments have become like the electoral college in the victor, like his willingness to listen when he spoke about the arithmetic realities of the affordable care act. the president-elect must listen and he must learn and tonight i worry about the talk that john bolton may be trump's choice for sect of state. picking bolton would vastly increase the number of people who were sad at what happened last tuesday and the number of people who are downright scared. scared. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> do i have concerns? absolutely. of course i've got concerns. >> the president meets the press. >> it has a way of waking you up. >> hiring white nationalism to lead his white house. tonight, the bipartisan