here. in between i-5 and i-95, trump is the winner. the big winner. you add up all of those counties, in other words, the rest of the country, and trump's margin of victory in between the two major interstates is more than 6 million votes. sometimes a road map does tell the story. that's all for tonight. wi"with all due respect" starts right now. hi, i'm donny deutsch. trump offered no new white house staff or cabinet announcements today, but there was one who were of a headline that deserves top billing on our program this evening. mitt romney will meet with the president-elect this weekend, sources tell me this is about secretary of state. that romney would take the job if it was offered, and that trump is serious, this is not kabuki, but for real. mark, what do we make of all of this? >> donald trump is watching the

coverage of the transition and i think, i'm told, doesn't particular like the way certain things have flowed out here. he wants a wow cabinet. and mitt romney, as you said, i think if offered this, would take the job. it would instantly have a lot of people rethink what donald trump is about, what kind of government he's forming. romney would be seen, i think, as qualified for the job. and because he was the staunchest of trump critics, it would allow trump to say implicitly and somewhat explicitly, hey, politics is over. that was then, this is now. i'm building the best government i can. and democrats who praised romney because he was such a vociferous critic of trump, i think would have to say, bravo, donald trump. >> yeah, i mean, people have been waiting for trump's wow cabinet and this is certainly a wow. i couldn't be more thrilled. look, i'm still very smarting over the batting thing and at some point someone's going to walk that back. but mitt romney would be a brilliant hire.

starting with number one, as a former ceo, what made we effective is i was a volatile guy like trump, but i surrounded myself with more measured people. the early people out of the box, the giulianis and so forth and the boltens and the newt gingrich's, it's more trump. so for him to take a thoughtful, considered, respected against-type character would be such a reach across the aisle signal. when i say reach across the aisle, to the non-trumpers, if you will, will be a fantastic, and on top of that, a very, very qualified guy. >> and it would be a governing pick. it wouldn't be picking with a crony, to say the least. it wouldn't be picking somebody out of loyalty or the notion that the person, you know, would sort of do whatever trump wanted. and it would give him a jans to start to build a cabinet that would be that wow cabinet. this is a tleheory out there no as trump is dealing with this transition process, he's looking at some of

souring a bit on people who are pushing themselves for a job. people like rudy giuliani, and people like laura ingraham, who's been mentioned as a possible press secretary. >> it really is a privilege. i know it sounds cliche, it's a privilege to be considered. i think some folks who are watching now, conservative talk show host, as a supreme court clerk, i worked as a white collar liberator, i have a broad government. i worked at the department of transportation. department of education and the white house and domestic policy. so, you know, i understand the -- i understand there's a stereotype. >> john would be a very good choice. >> is there anybody better? >> maybe me, i don't know. >> donny, trump can ignore anything. it's one of his strengths as a politician, because he doesn't get caught up in the moment, as he told john heilemann and me from an interview we did with

him down at mar-a-lago, it's the mob line, it's not personal, it's business. and a selection of romney, if it comes to that, and again, this is real on both sides, the reviews for the constituencies that trump wants to please, that trump wants to get momentum from, would all be positive, i think. and at this point, i'm not prepared to say, based on my reporting, that romney's the front-runner, but i think by the end of the weekend, he may well be. >> boy, like i said, that would be fantastic, guys like jamie dimon, who supposedly has turned it down. i'm going to go back to something that i think has kept me hopeful. that trump, his brand, is about winning. and if he wants to win, it's not going to be about who his cronies were, it's about what's going to get us to where we need to get to. so i am banking on that. so in transition, what is critically important as we move forward, as we analyze every pick, we cannot normalize the stuff that cannot be normalized. and i want to go back to his second pick.

and we can't walk away from that three days later. this is a guy who built a business -- i know i'm off-topic here with the misogyny and anti-semitism and racism. it's got to be revisited. it can't be, well, he did that, now what's next? so i'm still encouraged today, but i still need a lot more explanation walking back about his first pick. >> yeah, there's no question the bannon thing is still going to be out there and nancy pelosi today asked the mike pence to consider taking it back. i don't think trump's going to do that. but i just think, you're right. we can't assume -- and romney, of course, haven't even been picked yet. the other thing a romney pick would do, that i want to mention before we move on, he would help recruit, not just within the state department, where i think he would be able to bring in a lot of career diplomats and a lot of heavyweight figures from the foreign policy establishment, who might either way shy away from a trump administration, but he would be able to help recruit elsewhere in the cabinet. and as jamie dimon ends up

there, romney would send such a signal to people around the world about what donald trump is trying to do, it doesn't wash away everything else that people might be concerned about, but it would be a big message and a big pick, and the kind of pick as compared to say, giuliani, where people would say, trump, as i said it before, he's not rewarding loyalty to say the least in picking somebody like mitt romney. >> yeah, you know, i always said, it's about trump. and he's going to do at the end of the day what's best for him. and at the end of the day, what's best for him is a guy like romney. i cannot tell you what that would mean, the statement that would take. everybody would take a big sigh of relief. as opposed to -- i'm -- then i start to think about -- >> yeah, the nikki haley thing, i never think was serious. i think it got floated as kind of like a thing to move people off rudy giuliani. i said this morning, i thought there would be another big name.

i think this well could be it. >> another day of transition team speed dating over at trump tower, as donald trump again met with people he's considering for top admin positions. the politicians, business leaders, and other job seekers have caused a media frenzy in the gilded fifth avenue skyscraper lobby. c-span has a live feed of trump's gold elevator bank if you have nothing to do at night, and reporters are camped out like teenagers waiting for a midnight showing of a "twilight" movie. today's casting call included south carolina governor, nikki haley, former secretary of state, henry kissinger, congressman jeb hensarling, and judge janine piero. >> i think basically before or right after thanksgiving is probably more appropriate in terms of that. and we've looked at where past administrations have been also, and we feel like we're right on target, right on time for all of that. in 2000, the country went to thanksgiving without knowing who the president was.

we didn't know who the president was until december 12th in 2000. so we feel way ahead of schedule. >> trump's team is clearly trying to get back in control of their message. what are they doing and what new message do you think they're trying to send today. >> i thought it was laughable and they basically thought, well, the transition would take care of itself. they left a huge vacuum, mostly filled by stories that the press was casting in a negative light, particularly this notion that the transition is in disarray. they're making an effort basically showing themselves going 90 miles an hour. and the stories aren't going to be uniformly positive and they're not and they shouldn't be, but they have filled it with basically the notion of trump on a victory lap, announced today, trump meeting with world leaders, trump, you know, a steady stream of people, including people like kissinger, who are respected in some quarters. so i think they want to create a sense of forward motion, activity, and victory. and with the romney thing, potentially the beginning of the wow cabinet. >> you know, mark, everybody in

the media business has been all atitter because the transitioning is in disarray. of course it's in disarray. this is a group of people who spent the last 16 months campaigning. before that, the president-elect was in the real estate business. and now in a matter of days, they've got to make 4,000 hires and get up to speed on how they're going to govern. so it is not going to be a linear process. as you guys talked about yesterday, versus obama, who was in this business for a long time, versus even the clinton campaign that you covered in '92, but still has in disarray, there's going to be bumping into walls. that's okay. i actually think that's part of the process. is that i think donald trump right now is looking and poking and pulling and it's gonna be a little stumble, but that's okay. it wouldn't make sense any other way. what matters is the names he picks. >> yeah, and i'll tell you, they are not emphasizing this all that much, although they are some, mike pence is getting a ton of work done both in new york and in washington to lay the groundwork for a legislative agenda and for relationships around the world that are pretty

solid for a new administration, again, as you suggested, with a president-elect and then a president who's never done anything like this before. pence is being a huge bridge to a lot of different people, as he was during the campaign. >> yeah, i also think the tone -- they've got to stop -- it's interesting, every time i listen to kellyanne conway, sometimes i think she's still campaigning. there's no enemy at this point. it's not your job to say, we're doing it this way, we're not doing it this way. you won, it's yours, a little graciousness even under fire. >> some people need to switch their modes at least one notch. we'll take a break and when we come back, the trump family brand is now under more scrutiny than ever. we'll ask our resident image maker, that would be donny, about how that might change in a trump white house world, right after this. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine.

the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.

he wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad. male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. jared kushner, the husband

of ivanka trump and donald trump's son-in-law has played an influential role in both the trump campaign and now in the transition. yesterday, john and i talked about reports that top-level security clearance was perhaps eventually going to be sought for kushner. today "the wall street journal" has another story that suggests rather than stay outside, kushner's going to go inside the government, even though he is the son-in-law of the president to be. so donny, there have been a lot of questions about this guy. he is very camera shy, does not do television interviews or really print interviews, "the journal" story quoted ivanka today talking about her husband. my question to you is, since it's clear jared kushner doesn't want to shape his brand on his own, what is the status of his brand, and what could his allies do to try to put it in a better place? >> let's talk about jared a little bit. emily jane fox of "vanity fair" wrote a really interesting piece yesterday. i used to live in the sail building as jared and ivanka. very, very nice guy. his reputation, a lot of people don't know a lot about this guy. his father wrote a big check and

got him into harvard. he's had a couple of unsuccessful big splashes in the real estate business, unsuccessful. the observer has not been successful, but by anybody's measure, he's been a very effective member of this campaign. he's supposed to be a very decent guy who only spends time with his family and his work, has very few friends his own age, a very serious guy. my question is still, is what are his credibility there. and i think the more he stays as kind of the emperor behind oz and very, very quiet and unknown, i think the more of the things i'm bringing up are going to come up. and i think he needs to be a little outfront and center, so people can touch and look and feel and smell and say, you know what, he is 35, he doesn't have experience, but i like what i'm seeing. i think the more mystery there is, the more questions there are going to be. >> i agree. and i think bannon has the same problem. and i think he's got a longer paper trail of negative things, but the fact that both of them aren't on television, aren't talking in public, i think allows their opponents to define them. but again, if jared kushner

basically says, i need a better brand, but i'm not going to go out and defend myself, what's the solution? ivanka? his friends? what could be done to put him, people to be less suspicious. >> we just talked about it. he's a human being and we live in a media world. just like a president or a television personality or a politician or a tv anchor is doing to do something for their brand, you've got to be front and center. there is no other solution. we've got to get to know you, pal. it's that simple. you don't need me as an expert to tell you that. >> yeah, he's going to have a big role in the administration. and i think what is clear is that he's not hiding from the media, not avoiding tv, because he feels he's got nothing to hide. it's just not his style. but i think it's, as you suggested, it's a reality of age in which we yield. if you want to wield power in the white house, you've got to be a little bit more accountable, a little bit more visible. >> to your point, we know very little about him, that's just got to change.

>> yeah. so jared kushner aside, donald trump's own blood family members played a starring role in the presidential campaign. there's sway over what he'll be like as president now, seems like it's going to be quite strong. the three eldest children, don jr., ivanka, and eric, are all on the advisory board of the transition team. despite the fact that they are in the process of taking over the family business. it is unclear exactly what kind of influence they'll have come the inauguration and into the presidency. the trump clan was clearly an asset in many respects during the campaign, but they are now under fire. there's questions about potential conflicts of interest with their running the business as well as being involved, at least tangentially, with the government. so donny, how is donald trump's close relationship with and reliance on his family for advice going to play when we get to january? >> interesting. i've known this case for years, particularly don jr. and ivanka, great kids. but i think for the american public, two things have to

happen. we're in unchartered territory for two reasons. one, there's a very active business here, and two, this is the first time we're seeing adult family members in the house. it can't be a family. if these individuals, if these three individuals, and include jared as four, are going to be involved, we need to know, okay, this is what they're doing. not that it's this amorphous blob, okay, it's the family. and they travel in a pack, and so for instance, if ivanka is involved, once again, how is she involved? if donald trump jr. -- yes, we know they can't have page jobs in the administration, and we have to stop looking at them as a three-headed monster versus three individuals. they are his family, one way or another, they are going to have his ear. but let's get a little transparency as far as what exactly that means. >> yeah, i think that -- i've said this several times, they're not going to stop advising him, they're not going to give up the business. i get the concern over the fact that the trust cannot be blind, because he knows what properties they own. he knows what most of the assets are. i want a briefing from a lawyer. this is my big complaint about

trump and the foundation, for instance the legal advice he got was abysmal. they didn't run things tightly. that can't fly now, if he's going to be president, so what i think they should do is have a lawyer brief reporters in a careful, meticulous way about how this is all going to work. and as for the image of the family, all three kids have their critics like their father does, but i think all three will be part of shaping a brand that a lot of americans will find appealing of a very close-knit, attractive family. >> but there's also a cloak we've got to get through. and the big issue is the business. particularly because we know it's a private company, and we have no tax returns, we don't know if there's double dealing going on. they could be building a hotel in russia, and for three years, you'll do this for us. you and i could extrapolate for ten hours and we're not going to be able to know what's going on. >> and that's why a lawyer has

to brief it and that's why they can't adopt the standard of, we're not doing anything illegal. they've got to adopt the standard, we're not doing anything that's even close to the line of inappropriate. they must bend over backwards and take every precaution, or it's going to be a problem. >> good luck. >> all right. coming up, we're going to check in on another party, the democrats. we're also going to talk to one of the reporters who covers the trump transition so very closely right after this. i use what's already inside me to reach my goals. so i liked when my doctor told me i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what's within me...

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our next guest is taking a wee break from the trump transition. she is not on fifth avenue or in the lobby of trump tower, but she's in the friendly confines of "the washington post" newsroom. jenna, you covered donald trump candidate as closely as anyone. what is surprising you so far about donald trump, president-elect, and how he's conducting himself? >> well, i guess the big thing would be, not much has changed. he's still the same sort of politician that we've seen for the past year. a lot of reporters thought, well, once he becomes the presumptive nominee, there'll be more formalties, there'll be more communication reporters, it will be different. and it didn't happen. and maybe after he became the nominee, and we were wondering if maybe once he became the president-elect, he would dramatically change how he does

things. but he really hasn't. he's been continuing as he really has for the past year, doing things completely differently than anyone before him. >> jenna, donny and i talked earlier in the show about how we think a selection of mitt romney as secretary of state would shake things up in a way that would be very positive for trump and the transition. explain to people how it's possible, even possible, that donald trump could pick someone who called him a con man a few months ago, as his secretary of state. >> well, there's a lot of apologies -- not apologies, but a lot of mending bridges going on. a lot of things were said on both sides during this election, just within the republican party. and now donald trump is the president-elect. he's going to be the president of the united states. he's going to be the leader of the party. and people are coming to terms with that and they're trying to see if there's a way that they can work with him. i mean, we saw with the election

of his chief of staff, the party leader was a big sign that he was willing to work with the party. and putting mitt romney in his cabinet would be huge. there has not been any love at all between these two men. they've just been back and forth against each other. romney went after trump, not only for the things that he said, but also attacked how donald trump ran his businesses. and said that he was a bad businessman. and held up different examples that he said were examples of his failure. trump used one of his primary night press conferences, just to refute mitt romney, bringing out steaks on to the stage and cases of water, to prove that mitt romney was wrong and he was right. so if the two of them are able to find a way to work together, that would send a very clear signal that trump is willing to work with a lot of people who have criticized him.

>> yeah, jenna, it's an interesting point. you remember at the end, omar a omarosa, i hope she has a very important part going forward. i've been very critical of donald, and i wrote him a note and congratulated him, and said, i hope the old guy shows up. if the guy ran for office, i'll be in your face. and i hope the old guy shows up, and not the candidate. someone read it to me and went, you know, it wasn't a glowing response. so i think this romney thing will be a real test as far as, is he going to be looking bigger versus i've got scores to settle. i hope it's not just a beauty pageant and he's just walking him through. and certainly we'll know. but have you heard anything more as far as the -- i don't want to say the enemy's list, not that there is one, but the people that have gone up against him and his reactions going forward towards them? >> not yet. i mean, the election was a little bit over a week ago. and i think everyone's kind of

feeling each other out. they're looking to see who else gets positions of power. they're having meetings at trump tower and seeing how those go. i was at trump tower tuesday night, and ted cruz was there. and we chased after him. ted cruz, i mean, donald trump tweeted about the looks of ted cruz's wife. he suggested that ted cruz's dad might have been involved in the assassination of jfk. and he made the pilgrimage to trump tower and went up and talked to the president-elect. and he wouldn't tell us what exactly they talked about, he wouldn't tell us if he wanted a role in the administration. he wouldn't really explain how exactly he felt about things. he just told us that there had been a mandate from the voters and that he was following it. and i think that's really the attitude that a lot of republicans have right now. this is the guy that voters selected. and no matter what happens at this point, they're giving him a

second chance. now, if something again happens, you think it's over. but i think that people are willing to give him that second chance. >> jen, it's interesting, it seems like a "star wars" bar up there, janine piero and ted cruz and everybody else. there was a little bit of harbinger of what's to come, when he slipped the press and went out to 21, one example early on that he does not seem to realize or care about a lot of behavior that's going to be coming his way. do you think we've got a guy that's going to be beyond from a policy point of view, but just living day to day, is really not going to get his arms around nor care to the kind of real behavioral givings of a president? >> well, he's not legally required to have a protective press pool. he wasn't legally required to put out tax returns, we'll see. >> jenna, you are the best. when we return, we'll talk about the democrats, what they're up to right after this quick break. marvel studios. we are very much hands on producers. if my office becomes a plane or an airport the surface pro

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as a shattered democratic party tries to pick up the pieces, hillary clinton made her

first public appearance since the day after the election when she conceded the race. she walked on the stage at the children's defense fund at an event in washington, d.c. she got a standing ovation, and after acknowledging this very painful week, clinton urged her supporters to buck up and press on. >> i know that over the past week, a lot of people have asked themselves whether america is the country we thought it was. the divisions laid bare by this election run deep. but please listen to me when i say this. america is worth it. our children are worth it. believe in our country, fight for our values and never, ever give up. >> as we mentioned earlier, mike pence today met with democratic leaders on capitol hill. it's the same day "the new york times" reports that many democrats are looking at policy issues, like infrastructure spending, child tax credits, and trade adds potential areas to work with a trump bhowhite hous. that is, however, a vastly different tone and view than we

keep hearing from the outgoing senate minority leader, harry reid, who today gave an interview to cnbc's chris hayes. >> but i do say that as as democrats have to stand for something, to show the difference between trump and us. if we're going to just be dancing the dance with donald trump, we're -- we might as well just have the trump party. >> meanwhile, new york congressman joe crowley has emerged as a possible challenger to nancy pelosi while ryan said today he's officially seeking pelosi's job. there are ten incumbent democrats who will be up for re-election. some of those states were close contests, but trump won others by double digits. mark, where does the democratic party's recovery process stand as we speak today? >> it could be worse in the sense that they got their poker faces up, they don't look like

they're a defeated party. and i think they've got a decent balance here between saying, let's look to the future and let's, you know, mourn a little bit about what happened on election day. i still think the lack of a clear strong leader or two, the thousand voices, and the lack of any policy prescriptions, making contrast with the republicans, to capture the election is a real vulnerability to them. and once the new government begins, we get into the new holidays, it's a lot harder to break through. a lot of the tension will be on republicans getting things done. >> yeah, i always believe a party is dead, and nowhere is it going to return until there's one transformational figure. it happened with the democrats in the early 90s. it happened with clinton, it happened with reagan and we're kind of in this weird thing that's happening with trump. so i think there needs to be a fresh new face that comes at some point during this administration. my concern is that they overreact, run far, far, far to

the left, to the left with elizabeth warren, which i don't think is a solution, and i don't think that's the answer. and it's going to take not necessarily policy issues, because trump has coopted some of the popular issues in terms of child care and infrastructure spending. and the harry reid point of view, that's the wrong answer. let's take the issues we've always liked as democrats, jump on them. but to your point, mark, it's going to take a human being. and the other thing is, watch trump do what reagan did and what bush 43 did. watch him go after those senate democrats in blue and red states, and try to pick off enough of them to say, three, four, five votes. the obama administration did the same thing. call the bills bipartisan, even if it's mostly republicans, but you get a few democrats. and i think he's going to be able to do that. and again, a normal republican president in these polarized times, if they tried that, would face criticism from the base. trump's not going to care. >> and by the way, there are ten very vulnerable democrats coming

up in 2008, who once again, if some of those populist issues are coopted and they've been very, very against trump, they're going to be extremely vulnerable in some of these red-leaning states. >> and even tax reform, which argued right, you could say it's going to be tax cuts for the wealthy. even there, trump and his supporters, paul ryan will say, tax cuts to stimulate economic growth. and i think they'll get some democratic votes for that. all right. taking another break. we're going to talk to two west coast strategists, the great fred davis, the great bob shrum join us when we come right back. r foot support can mean pain. the dr. scholl's kiosk maps your feet and recommends our custom fit orthotic to stabilize your foundation and relieve lower-back, knee or foot pain from being on your feet. find your nearest kiosk at drscholls.com. also available from dr. scholl's: heavy duty support for lower back pain, lightens the impact of every step.

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all right. we're going to get the party started. we're joined by democratic strategist, bob shrum, who's worked for the presidential campaigns of al gore and bob kerry, and fred davis, who's worked for politicians such as john mccain, comes to us from santa barbara. all right, guys. we're going to talk about romney. before we do, i'm going to sum it up, bob. you like myself and so many others were, no chance for trump. fred, you've said, maybe a miracle. i've had nine days to sit with this. bob, what i have learned is blank. >> be careful about predictions. look, we had a wonderful event with john heilemann where the four of us sat around, i said, no way could trump be elected. the food was good. and now it's time for me to meat crow. i would prefer crow parmesan,

but i'll eat crow. i believe the data. although i thought trump, and i said it publicly in the summer of 2015, could be the republican nominee, i never thought he could pass the threshold of acceptability as president of the united states. i was wrong. the turnout patterns change. i do think comey's announcement on sunday had an impact. and i think that impact was hurtful to clinton. and finally, when you look at this whole thing, hillary clinton was the first democratic candidate for president in my lifetime, who ran without an economic message. you change about 50,000 votes out of 12 million, in michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania, and she's got 307 electoral votes. i think they should have had that economic message on television, in their advertising, and should have been pushing it hard every day. >> all right, fred, my fellow ad guy, what i have learned is "blank." >> what i've learned is nobody knows nothing, donny. >> well put! >> i live in california, but i'm from oklahoma. and when i was in oklahoma, you

couldn't find one person that wasn't voting for donald trump. when i go home to santa barbara, you can't find one person that admits that they would ever vote for donald trump. but i -- it was a heart thing. i don't believe the data, as much as bob does, but i felt as visceral urge in this country, not for donald trump, but against anybody that is normal. anybody that whiffs of politics of the past. and how could you whiff more of politics of the past than hillary clinton? >> guys, you're both pretty familiar with mitt romney, bob, you ran a race against him and fred, you know him. starting with fred, what do you think, if it was announced that he is secretary of state for donald trump? what impact do you think that would have on the trump administration and the optics of what's going on now? >> oh, gosh, that's a great question, mark. i think, first of all, it would bring the establishment back to mr. trump or president trump's side. but i'm not sure how much he

wants to do that. i'm not sure if that's a good thing for him or not. so optically, i could tell you it was good and bad. not sure which one outweighs the other. >> bob, what do you think of secretary of state romney for donald trump? >> i would feel a lot better for the country. i think it would indicate that maybe, if he's not pivoting, he's doing a half-pivot. everybody's been waiting for him to pivot all along, he never has. but he can do a half-pivot. i think people would feel better about the future of foreign policy, about how we were going to deal with russia, how we were going to deal with some of the other problems. look, i was against romney in 2012, but i didn't fear for the future of the country if he got elected. and i ran a race against him in 1994. he's a straight forward, honorable guy with whom i happen to disagree. but i think he would bring some real clout and real heft to this administration. >> fred, i've made it kind of a personal agenda for me, whenever i'm going to be on the air, i want to walk back to home base and say, no, he brought in steve bannon as his right-hand guy,

and we can aboutn't a week late talking about mitt romney. i'm a jew, and he called bill kristol a renegade jew. how do you feel about that guy? >> i don't know. he did a pretty good job on the campaign. he identified that angst that i sort of felt around the country and managed to propel his candidate forward with it. i think this whole fear issue is based on take everything donald trump says literally. and i don't think he means -- >> no, i'm talking about -- i'm talking about steve bannon and the things he personally said at breitbart under his watch? >> but there are a lot of people of your faith that all, they think that's making a mountain of a molehill. i agree, he said some rather colorful and antagonistic things. but i think they're going to settle in. i think whoever he ends up, and his team is going to -- i'm not here as a big trump supporter, but i'm here to say the fear in

the streets, i think, is misplaced. >> bob, i want to focus, every time kellyanne conway was asked, he was a ceo at goldman sachs. and we can no normalize this behavior. it's not just one isolated thing. anyone who knows anything about breitbart of bannon, there's been a litany of misogynistic, anti-semitic, racist things and that's got to be addressed. we can't just walk away from that. >> i think it was a big mistake for trump to pick him. i think it tells us something about donald trump, that loyalty comes first. i disagree profoundly with fred. i don't think what he said and some of the headlines he's had are colorful. i think they're hateful. i think they've been hateful towards women, hateful towards jews, hateful towards people of color. i don't think he belongs a few steps from the oval office in any administration. so you have conflicting signals coming from trump. and we don't know where this is going to go. maybe mitt romney is going to be secretary of state. we know what bannon's going to do. who else is going to come into this cabinet? how serious is it going to be? you know, trump, as you know, went around the country,

denouncing wall street. and it appears that a lot of the people who are going to staff this administration or staff the cabinet, are people from wall street. we'll see how his base reacts to that. >> you guys are sticking around. we've got to take a quick break. bob shrum and fred davis, don't go anywhere. more with these two legends when we come back. and if you're watching us in d.c., you can watch us on the bloomberg radio 99.1 f.m. my anca results it was a shocker. i'm everything. i'm from all nations. i would look at forms now and wonder what do i mark? because i'm everything. and i marked other. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com.

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welcome back. we're back with the so cal dynamic duo, bob shrum, and republican strategist, fred davis up the road a bit in santa barbara. bob, if you were the strategist for chuck schumer and the senate democrats, would you look for opportunities to work with president trump or would you do what republicans did eight years ago and say, oppose him across the board? >> i don't think that will happen. i think if, for example, there's an infrastructure bill that's real, that's going to do something to rebuild the crumbling bridges, roads of this country, to modernize the rail

system, i think democrats will cooperate with that. it will also, by the way, be a very big jobs bill, if trump ever gets anything of the order of magnitude he's talked about, like $1 trillion. you'd create a huge number of jobs. and since he can't create jobs, frankly, by tinkering around with trade agreements or by throwing them out the window, he's got to find some other way to do it or some of his constituents are going to be very unhappy. i think there are other areas where you have to oppose him. if he does half of what he says on immigration, i think you have to oppose him. i think it's the right thing to do on the merits, it's the right thing to do politically. and in terms of -- it's going to be very interesting to see what he does on economics and taxes. because if he adopts the ryan bill, paul ryan's bill wholesale, and there's a privatization of medicare, an element of privatization of social security, massive tax cuts for people at the top, very little for other people. i think it will give the democratic party on a silver platter a message that will be very powerful. >> fred, as they start to craft

the legislative agenda, should they be doing things that they know they can pass with republican-only votes, or should they adopt and adjust to try to get bipartisan bills through? >> you know what, mark, as much as i love bob, and he knows i love him more than life itself, everything he said sounded to me exactly like a politician. sounds exactly like what people are rebelling against and elected donald trump, of all people, to overcome. i anticipate him calming down from what -- from the rhetoric on the campaign trail, but doing some unique and different and unusual things that supreme kind of ached for, for a long, long time. and no one's ever done. i think if he falls back in and starts talking about a jobs bill, and these very specific bills, as opposed to a broader agenda of cleaning up the swamp, as he calls it. i think that's a mistake. and if he doesn't do that, then i think he's handing the silver platter to the democrats. >> hey, bob, beyond specific

policy issues, just for an overall view, the democratic party, you've thought of them as the bad lulue collar party, ext to minority and working class, so what is the democratic party now? >> well, the democratic party doesn't stand for anything if it doesn't stand for working people, if it doesn't stand for economic justice. if it doesn't stand for social justice. that's what the party is all about. we thought there was a rising american electorate and there is. it wasn't sufficient in this election. we thought there was a blue wall. part of it crumbled. but i think democrats ought to go forward on the basis of principle, not just trying to figure out tactically what to do, but go forward on the basis of principle and argue those values. i said earlier on, that we should have had an economic argument in this election. should have been rooted in trump's business practices and then in the difference between their economic plans. and we should have prosecuted it in those rust belt states and i

think hillary clinton would be president. so, we have to -- we have to remember that lesson. and we have to go back after those blue collar workers. it's important. they're one of the reasons the democratic party exists. a central reason. >> fred, obviously, there was an electoral mandate, but clearly -- >> it really wasn't if you go to bob's earlier point, 30,000 votes out of 120 million votes would have swung the election. it certainly wasn't a popular mandate. it's interesting, trump came out when he's announced a victory tour, that post-thanksgiving he's going to visit the states that he won and the states that he flipped. if i was advising him, i would be saying that you should actually be going to the other states. and that he needs to give that one speech to the very -- a lot of constituents who are very frightened muslims, a lot of people who -- gay communities, a lot of the nontraditional communities and his first thing out of the bat is quite the opposite. i would love your reaction to that. >> well, i think, first of all, who would ever think that donald trump turned the republican party into the blue collar party, at least for this election. and hillary became the elite

party, made the dems the elite party. there was the unusual conflict that's going on. i think he has this magically strange way of communicating with people and wherever he goes now, he's going to get even more press coverage than he got before. so i don't think optically it matters exactly where he goes, it's what he says, and i hope he implies that he's going to work with people, he's going to do things differently. and some of the things he's announced already are rolling back adds rhetoric from the campaign. but some of them, he's kind of sticking with the lobbyist ban, with some of the specific items that he mentioned. sop right now, i have to give him an "a." i think he's kind of straddling the fence pretty well. >> bob, we saw hillary clinton at the children's defense fund last night. i'm wondering what your appetite is to have hillary clinton part of the dialogue and discussion going forward about how to rebuild the democratic party? >> i think she'll be part of the

dialogue and discussion, but i don't think she'll think about running again. i think we've reached the end of the clinton era. the democratic party has to go to a new generation of leadership. it has to find somebody who can galvanize the party, who can go out there and touch people. in a way, for example, that bernie sanders did. i didn't agree with a lot of what he said, but he went out there and he moved people. who would have thought a 74-year-old curmudgeon would become the most charismatic figure in american politics? but he did for a while. and democrats have to look for the kind of leadership, it's obviously going to be younger, it's going to be from a new generation, that can touch people in a way that they will respond to the -- that can find that responsive chord. that's critical, as long as -- alongside the policy. i actually think the policy is very important, and i disagree with fred. i think trump's choice of policy will be very critical in defining his administration. >> fred, what or who are the three biggest threats to donald trump's legislative agenda? >> the three biggest threats to

his -- well, i would have to -- >> how about donald trump? >> that's actually where i was going. i was stumbling my way through it. and maybe steve bannon, to some extent, although i think reince priebus was a brilliant choice, and everybody -- there's nobody that doesn't like rines. even bob, probably, likes rines. and he will be able to kind of smooth all these people together. you know, long ago, i suggested that the first -- i think you asked me, mark, years ago, on a show, what's the first thing that barack obama should do when he's elected? and i said, he should buy a six-pack of beer and duitch the secret service and show up at mitch mcconnell's door and say, let's have a beer and figure out how to make this country work together. if donald trump can do that, i think he's the in great shape. i think his biggest threat is if he falls back, and it's very easy to do. if he falls back into politics as usual. because there's going to be 10,000 people around him every

day telling him to do that, and that's where i think a steve bannon might actually be helpful in keeping him, just reminding him that people voted for him because they wanted something different, not more of the same. >> i want to ask you each one last question, but we've got to wrap up. bob, in one sentence, in his first speech, what donald trump needs to accomplish is? >> needs to reach out to people, needs to reach out to democrats, needs to reach out to democratic members of the senate and the house. but also to all those people in the country who literally are afraid of him. >> fred? >> yeah, i agree with that. he needs to calm the fear. >> yeah, i -- that to me, that is going to show his presidency to me, because that is real out there. i know i walk the streets of new york and people -- people are actually afraid. and policy aside, politics -- nobody should be afraid right now. i've said this earlier also, had hillary won, there would be people afraid also, but he's got to quell that fear, and if he's a leader, that's what he's got to do. >> i don't think people would have been afraid like this with

hillary, because it would have been more of the same, now it's the great unknown. >> it's not just that, it's, am i a part of this country? because in certain ways, i was told i wasn't, i don't mean personally, and there's no room for that, period. >> i think he'll calm that down. >> okay. fred davis, bob shrum, guys, thanks so much. always great to have you on. donny and i will be right back. ugh. heartburn.

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donny, still a lot of buzz in my inbox and on twitter about the prospect of romney as secretary of state. if he doesn't pick him now, where does that leave him? >> you know, it's been a tease. to not pick romney and then to go back to a giuliani, which a lot of people on both sides of the aisle are having problems, would be worse than going straight to giuliani. i think he's whet our appetite for a smart, unexpected choice that would make a lot of people beyond just the very, very devout trump followers happy and i think he's set a new bar now. >> trump's headed out to new

jersey i think for the weekend and that's probably where that meeting will take place. it will be interesting to see what the coverage is like, because it will be hysterical. not in a funny way, but in an his terrific w hystherric way. donny and will be back tomorrow, same bad time, same bad channel. sayonara. "hardball" is up next. >> dangerous liaisons. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. well, when it comes to those who might serve inside a trump administration, some of trump's prospective choices could become dangerous nor the president-elect. nbc is reporting that trump is expected to choose michael flynn as his national security adviser. flynn who called for hillary clinton to be locked up at the republican convention has been criticized or scrutinized for his paid