protecting trump tower. the president-elect ran his campaign from trump tower and now is planning the transition from there, as well. what new yorkers really want to know is how street closures may affect traffic. >> that does on this friday. "morning joe" starts right now. >> the democratic party has got to recognize -- i'm not here to blame anybody. not to criticize anybody. but facts are facts. when you lose the white house to the least popular candidate in the history of america, when you lose the senate, when you lose the house, and when two-thirds of governors in this country are republicans, it is time for a new direction for the democratic party. [ applause ] >> good morning. it is friday.

we got through a week. >> we did. we did. >> november 18th. welcome to "morning joe." >> we tell secrets openly on the set here. with us here, katty kay. political writer for "the new york times" nicholas confessore and in nashville, tennessee -- >> he's back. >> he was here yesterday. >> he bored us to death. >> i wanted to be bored today. my kids said, daddy, daddy, a horrible man put us to sleep. >> is this the rule? we bore you to death? >> i think it's good to have katty here so we can learn how to lose an empire gracefully. >> okay. >> i can give you the road map

because you're headed there. >> let's start then -- >> jon, one of the reasons i wanted you back here, fascinating news yesterday broke and historical precedent do it. woodrow wilson did it where mitt romney's name in consideration, a name that would calm a lot of fears on the international stage and also domestically and the markets, mitt romney being talked to, considered for secretary of state. how important is that and talk about the historical precedence and team of rivals approach. >> wilson and william jennings brian which will get mika excited at this hour. >> she loves the whole across the goal thing. >> exactly. crisis of 1940. what did roosevelt do? he reached out to the man that ran against him as vice president four years before. put him in the cabinet.

the great doris goodwin with lincoln bringing rivals of the republican party into the cabinet as it faced a crisis of union and of course barack obama with hillary clinton four years ago. so it would clearly be a reassuring signal. it's so much a reassuring signal one wonders how much of it is a signal as opposed to a reality. you know, there is a significant american history of reaching out to create a cabinet that would represent all elements of a party and indeed all elements of the spectrum. you know, bring in a democrat as well. >> balance to the first bit of news. general flynn, someone obviously that makes a lot of people in the international community uneasy and nervous, mitt romney would be very good balance to that. a rudy giuliani would be a full blown international crisis. >> it shows an openness of mind that some didn't expect of trump

because mitt romney hasn't been particularly generous with kind words for donald trump during the campaign. here he is back in march. >> donald trump tells us that he is very, very smart. i'm afraid that when it comes to foreign policy, he is very, very not smart. donald trump says he admires vladimir putin at the same time he's called george w. bush a liar. that is a twisted example of evil trumping good. he claimed that he had spoken clearly and boldly against going into iraq. wrong. he spoke in favor of invading iraq. he said he saw thousands of muslims in new jersey celebrating 9/11. wrong. he saw no such thing. he imagined it. his imagination must not be married to real power. his foreign policies would make america and the world less safe. he has neither the temperament

nor the judgment to be president and his personal qualities would mean that america would cease to be a shining city on a hill. >> so, willie, actually, i talked to donald yesterday and -- was it romney? what are you talking about. i've been pounding him for five years. this is a tough game. you have to be able to take as much as you give. that's a side of donald trump that i know a lot of people haven't seen. i think that's why this romney pick not only surprised so many people but i think also it would comfort a lot of people again. not only internationally but also here domestically. >> there were a lot of sighs of relief yesterday. okay. mitt romney. that guy is an adult. he lived in the world. been a businessman and governor. he ran the olympics. great relationships around the

world. is this more signaling? is this putting nikki haley's name out there because she represents something that would comfort some people about the way donald trump might surround himself with people who he opposed during the election and have different views than him or is it real? if it's real, it's an encouraging sign. >> from everything i've heard on all sides here, it's very real. >> that's good news. >> when you listen to that sound bite of mitt romney, it's interesting because in some ways i heard newscasts calling these jobs plum jobs. these are horrible jobs. these are the hardest jobs in the world. i actually watched my family from the inside out go through one of these jobs. it's all consuming. the incoming is literally indescribable. >> you can go back to 2008.

you can find horrible things that hillary clinton said about barack obama and barack obama's team basically accused bill and hillary clinton of being bigots in the south carolina primary and when it's all over, who did he need as secretary of state? brought the party together. brought the country together. >> that's right. i mean, look, he needs some of these people if he wants to actually fill the middle and lower ranks of the appointments in his administration. i would say i feel like i'm watching a reality tv show where the cast from the past seasons all come back for a reunion and talk to each other and hang out. i feel like we're seeing all of the people involved in this campaign for two years coming and having a seat in trump tower. i'm not sure if it's real or signaling it. if it is real, changing the game and bringing in people who are not trumpers basically. >> and how important is it to actually signal, which he seems

to be doing, that, yeah, i don't care what people have said about me in the past. i care -- >> the only loyalty i have is to the american people. >> who is going to help me move forward in the future? i'm sure may and boris had a few cross words before she pulled him onboard. >> speculation about why he was given that difficult job. one of the criticisms of the trump campaign is he brought in only loyalists at the expense of experience and that some of the people that he's had around him are not necessarily the most talented or experienced in their fields and that he's just rewarding loyalty. if he reaches out and you're suggesting that this is real, if he reaches out to mitt romney and puts him in that senior position, that would say something about his management style. i think it's also -- foreign policy management, mika knows this, is a little bit about temperament. we are living in a world full of crises and some of the people like michael flynn that he's brought into the white house are hot. these are hot people. you need a little bit of cool to

moderate that. mitt romney would signal to the world that there was somebody there who was measured and was going to not necessarily do things out of some ideological conviction that were rash perhaps. >> that's exactly what i've been saying. he's the disruptor in the middle. he does not need giulianis and boltons disrupting on the outside. he needs people that are steady. by the way, again, flynn, let's talk about general flynn. >> it's confirmed. >> general flynn makes the appointment of somebody who is temperamentally sound like mitt romney all the more important. >> whether romney would have the weight -- there have been secretaries of state that have not had the ear of the white house. >> john kerry. >> or colin powell. michael flynn will have president trump's ear. that signals to me -- a better

signal for what direction donald trump wants to go than putting mitt romney in -- >> the one thing i learned about donald trump and mika and i have over the past 10 or 11 years. he cares about who got him good information last and who got him bad information. if you get donald trump bad information and you embarrass him, you go to the back of the line very quickly. he's very loyal right now to general flynn because what happened during the campaign. but the one thing i've known about trump's management style is it's based on performance. he's not, like, you know bush 41. i was with him at yale 50 years ago. i can't fire him. it's not that way. >> this pair of appointments if they are appointments, romney and flynn, kind of raises questions about policy with regard to russia. >> another really good balance there. >> balance or schizophrenia. romney said that putin is our

number one foe and flynn has appeared on a propaganda network for russia so what direction is he going to take on russia? >> who is he going to listen to? >> hopefully you get all sides. >> one other thing that's interesting about romney how can he take the job after terrible things he said? he's taking it perhaps because of the very things he said that he believes maybe donald trump needs moderation and it's on act of patriotism to step in and get between donald trump and the rest of the world and impose his world view on it. those two things are not mutually exclusive. going out and making that speech about donald trump saying he's not equipped to handle it, maybe that's why mitt romney would take the job. >> is sends a signal as one of donald trump's toughest critics to everyone else in lower cabinet levels, i'm putting this behind me for the good of the country. i'm behind the president-elect. >> i'm bringing in the highest equal. here >> a senior campaign transition official confirms that president-elect trump has asked

lieutenant general michael flynn to serve as his national security adviser. flynn had trump's ear on national security matters during the campaign and helped drive the president-elect's policy on his approach to russia as well as his posture against islamic terror. flynn has had a relationship with vladimir putin shown here seated next to putin during an event celebrating the 10th anniversary of r.t., which is the state backed russian broadcaster. flynn has made controversial statements in the past. fear of muslims is rationale. please forward this to others. the truth fears no questions. he later apologized after retweeting an anti-semitic tweet this past july and known as a hot head. is that a fair assessment? >> from all of the reports i've seen, it's interesting. there's a tale of two general flynns. there's a general flynn that barack obama appointed. the general flynn who got some

pretty high marks running intel for defense. and then there's the tweeting general flynn that has caused a lot of concerns. >> twitter is a problem clearly in our political leaders. this is not helpful. general flynn who moved out by barack obama in 2014 because of disagreements over intel policy since he's come out even amongst his peers he's raised a lot of eyebrows. the trip to russia which was organized by his speaking agency. he turns up and sits next to vladimir putin. that was seen as an endorsement of vladimir putin but he also has his son that propagated conspiracy theories online who said that marco rubio, for example, was addicted to cocaine and used to have wild parties. if general flynn keeps his son who has been extreme in things

he's said and done and posted online with him when he comes into the white house, that's not a reassuring sign. >> and also there's accumulative effect of all of this. the steve bannon controversy that blew up. seems to be dying down a bit. nowsensitive remarks and we know jeff sessions coming up most likely for attorney general said things in his past that were racially insensitive as well and you create, again, this narrative that continues to move forward. i have no doubt -- i have no doubt that flynn was going to be picked. i don't think anybody else did either. i'm sure sessions is going to get whatever sessions wants. again, i think this underlines a point that if you're going to get a couple loyalists that have said some crackpot things in the past, you better have some steady hands at state, at defense, and at treasury or this

goes into a full blown meltdown. and listen to them or this goes into a full blown meltdown as bad as bill clinton's in 1993 when he took office. >> i'm paying close attention to people who are with trump in the campaign and people that were not. a team of rivals. when he was running, party apparatus ran away from him in terms of intellectuals. the one that stuck with him are now in line for the top jobs. does he have confidence to bring someone like mitt romney. it's the big question. >> a couple updates before we get to break. yesterday the trump campaign banned state and federal lobbyists from joining the administration. >> that's big news. >> require staffers not to lobby for five years after leavie ini government. >> there are people saying it will make it less likely for good people to serve in

government. well, good. i mean, good. if those "good" people only want to go in and make money when they get out. >> this is something that people called for for a long time. didn't have guts to do it. >> newt gingrich is out. he told nbc news he won't be in the cabinet. i want to focus on strategic planning for the majority. >> this suggests again donald trump knows when hot blows too hot. and there was a lot of talk about -- the secretary of state talk has been outrageous. and now that trump is actually talking to serious people for secretary of state, all of the reporters that put the bad names out at first are saying he's just putting up trial balloons. no. newt gingrich was never going to be secretary of state. and the reporters that put that out and put bolton out and are now coming back, he's floating these trial balloons and -- no.

no. >> only trump knows who will get these. >> he's the last guy in the room to take mark halperin's statement from yesterday. mark said it yesterday. i repeated it three times stealing it from him. >> the last guy in the room is donald trump. all of the reporters saying it's -- you're dead wrong. reagan had this problem. last person to talk to reagan was the person that had the most influence. it's not the case with donald trump. >> all it takes in washington to have your name floated is to find a reporter who will float your name. that's it. >> if you're rudy, you announce yourself. >> unless you're rudy. and you get one of those cessna airplanes that have rudy for secretary of state and you go up and down fifth avenue. that's been the most shameless lobbying effort for a position trying to corner somebody and back a president-elect in the corner.

he couldn't have done it to a worse guy. >> who corners donald trump? >> shameless and strategically done. donald trump isn't going to go for that. >> who thinks donald trump is so weak that he can be bullied into picking somebody. particularly somebody that made money giving speeches to foreign terrorist groups. congressman tim ryan now officially challenging nancy pelosi for democratic leader in the house joins the table this hour and next hour, the rnc's chief strategist and communications director sean spicer will be here on set. >> they got it right. >> they did. they were spot on. >> so you know what else? actually came to us the morning of and said we want to show you what's going on. they went state by state by state by state. michigan. i said you're not up by one in michigan. do you think i would tell you

the morning of the election unless i had hard numbers. tomorrow i would look like an idiot. >> you know who else is spot on? bill karins. >> he has a spot on. spot right here. right there. you got a spot. >> thank you. >> bill, you're the best. >> you are the best. >> bill is jumping into comcast "know your value" today because he's the best. >> i'm not going to ask you guys what my value is. >> try not to get this wrong. >> get wrong and get paid for. that's the deal being the weather guy. let's talk about the forecast. right now this is the weekend of change. we've been very warm all november much of the country. now we're getting back to reality. it's a rude awakening this morning. blizzard conditions in south dakota and minnesota. blues is heavy snow. this is big story out there today as we go throughout the day. not like the enjoyable fun snow. this is going to be the snow that could get people stranded on the roads today in minnesota. i do have fun snow video for you. this came into us yesterday. this is kind of like me.

first snow is always a fun one. this dog -- maybe first time he ever saw snow. loving it in colorado. so for the weekend the bottom line is the snowstorm exits and the cold air moves in so if you're in areas of texas today, cold air is for you. by the time we get to tomorrow, it's ohio valley and by the time we get to sunday it's for the east coast. just be prepared for changeable weather over the weekend. finally feeling how it should be. thanksgiving is right around the corner now. we'll continue to update that snow forecast and blizzard for you in minnesota. washington, d.c., no snow for you over the upcoming weekend but sunday will definitely be cold. also we have a shot of minnesota. this is blizzard conditions we were talking about. minneapolis, arriving for you a little later on today. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. "day to fee"♪

♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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>> "the new york times" has another story about rudy giuliani. >> is he doing more? >> a lot of speeches. >> i thought it was a hillary story. potential giuliani conflicts on front of "the new york times." on top of that giuliani conflicts, democrats are going to call him crooked rudy. "the new york times" son-in-law tests legal path to the white

house job. jared kushner. we know jared, mika. he got into this campaign. we've been talking about a calming influence. he would definitely be that. >> he's also been the unlikely force behind the trump success out in america and working with people developing data bases and finding new strategies to get the vote out. >> he's 35 years old. and we're talking about the rnc getting stuff right, willie. jared was a guy all along talking about -- when are you going to minnesota? we're closer than people think. they lost by one point. named all these different states. he actually again is a brilliant guy. he figured this stuff out a long time ago. he was even calling election night when everyone said they would lose the big swing states. i called him up at 6:00, no.

unless our guys are completely wrong. he sounded like david axelrod actually two days before the election in 2012. no. we're going to win by four points. i think more importantly, it's his temperament. again, he's very, very steady. i never heard him raise his voice. i personally think he is badly needed in the white house. >> he's such an interesting figure in this trump. 35-year-old real estate. selling buildings while he was in college. bought new york observer newspaper when he was 26 years old. since you guys know him better than i do, i guess i ask back to you, what is it about him of all of the people around trump that trump trusts so much? this guy who hasn't been in politics before but appears to have good instincts? why does trump trust him? why is he one of the last guys in the room? >> because he's proven it slowly over time. >> that's the thing his advice to trump has always been right. to be blunt, when donald trump

got in trouble and stayed in trouble, it's because he wasn't listening to people like jared who was saying let's not talk about the khans. let's move on from the khans. let's not talk about the judge. more important than that, he actually plays a role. historically, jon meachem, jared plays the role that nancy reagan played. she was the gate keeper keeping all of the hanger onners and the nuts away from ronald reagan. that's kind of what jared does. he does his best to keep the crazies away and to make sure he gets the best information. >> mrs. reagan was the great protector and arguably critical

to president reagan becoming president reagan. if reagan had married first time around, he would have won an academy award. that's fascinating. other thing i've been thinking about is bobby kennedy example. you know, what kennedy joked about they had to find some way for bobby to get legal experience before he went into practice. so there are issues here. if he's the trump whisperer, if he's someone who can make him calm and focused, then that's a role that someone needs to play and if that's him, that's great. >> i think more importantly than that instead of being the trump whisperer because trump is trump. he decides what he's going to do and when he's going to be it. the important role that i've seen is -- i'm not lobbying for anybody. i'm just an american. i think we're on a razor's edge

right now to be really honest with you in which direction this goes. jared keeps the environment calm around him. unlike a lot of political operatives who run around and stress and throw things against the wall. i've never heard him raise his voice. >> someone like michael flynn who is proposing things on foreign policy front and obvious example would be to do with islamic state and is proposing something that is impetuous or might not work or sound simple but could cause long-term problems, my question is what role does jared play calming influence in that situation? how much is he going to be on top of specific policy and how much is he going to be engaged in some of the trickier decisions that the president is going to have to make and how much is he going to give him space to make those decisions without necessarily have the last influence of michael flynn or steve bannon who are some of the more hot heads in the white house at the moment. >> jared is there all the time. he's omni present.

flynn isn't going to sneak in the room. you don't sneak past -- you can ask a lot of people that have been in that campaign and out of that campaign. you don't sneak around jared because like valerie jarrett, he's always the last one. and actually, valerie jarrett is great example of actually the role that jarrett would play. >> i think of him more in a jarrett role. a personal friend. in this case a family member who is a sounding board who he trusts. doesn't have a clear policy brief but is sort of all around important and a gatekeeper. it's important for a president to have one person in their life who can tell them you are wrong about this. you are messing it up. whose power doesn't rest on an appointment from the president. a friend that stands above the power structure in the white house. i can see him being that person here. >> do you know what -- unlike everybody else around him,

jared's interest is protecting his father in law. that's it. >> he knows that. trump does. >> he could make money. put a gold bracelet on this or that. jared is going to lose a ton of money if he does this. i personally hope he loses a ton of money. >> he'll be fine. i'm not too worried about his finances. >> romney loses a ton of money. i hope there are a lot of people -- dwight eisenhower said he never wanted somebody in his administration that could afford to be there. he didn't want somebody that was getting a raise going there. >> you want somebody making a sacrifice and doing it for the right reasons. there will be the question of whether or not jared kushner can legally do it. the law put in after bobby kennedy. >> there are ways. >> that you can't have a member of your own family in an agency over which you preside even unpaid.

is there a way for him to be a volunteer? there may find some way around it but there could be a legal fight over whether kutcher is there. >> what would the relationship be like with bannon and kutcher? equal influence? >> i think at the end of the day -- again, it's so hard to measure this out because donald trump is not ronald reagan. i mean, so who has the most influence? donald has the most influence. it's just -- but, would bannon and jared be basically on an equal plane with reince? you look at what ronald reagan had. >> right. i think you used a key word a minute ago which is the atmosphere. it's the whole ecosystem we have to look at.

mika lived through this. if you have national security adviser who is pushing illogical agenda, that throws things off balance. if you have secretary of state and national security adviser who don't get along, that throws things off balance. >> are you talking about -- what exactly do you mean by that? >> every time the name is brought up -- >> it all went downhill. it's a long story. >> we could talk about -- >> let's just -- >> it happens to all of us. who among us has not had -- >> right of passage for an american kid. >> i can't tell you how often this happened in chattanooga. the other historical point quickly, two cases where a

significant figure came in who had been on the other side is henry kissinger who had been with hubert humphrey in 1965 and jim baker who twice ran campaigns against ronald reagan. and to connect this to what you just mentioned, joe, mrs. reagan was in favor of bringing baker in. it was having some people who had been on the other side who could deal with loyalists that created a successful ecosystem and so you have to look at it who wholistically. >> james baker is a perfect example of bringing mitt romney on and why that would be so important. baker was the all-star. a guy who tried to beat ronald reagan twice. >> so up next, a guy name ryan is giving nancy pelosi a tough time on capitol hill. we're not talking about the speaker of the house. congressman tim ryan of ohio is

now officially challenging the democrats longtime leader. the pitch to the party next here on "morning joe." world. love or like? naughty or nice? calm or bright? but at bedtime...

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>> house democrats must be unified, strategic and unwavering. those at trtributes served us w when we won the house and i'm hopeful they'll do so again. i have over two-thirds of the caucus supporting me. it's a funny thing in a caucus or any place when somebody challenges you, your supporters turn out. both internally in the caucus and in the country. >> nancy pelosi expressing confidence she'll retain her leadership post. joining us now, the man officially challenging her for that position, democratic congressman tim ryan of ohio. also with us, senior writer at politico and co-author of "the playbo

playbook." >> why are you doing it? >> we go back to 2010, 2012. >> how many house races. >> 68 since 2010. >> you've lost 68 since 2010? >> 68 seats since 2010. smallest majority since 1929 in our caucus. if you take state and federal officials, democratic officials, smallest number since reconstruction. if that's not a call for doing something differently, i don't know what is. >> is that nancy pelosi's fault though? >> i love nancy pelosi. she's a friend of mine. she's a mentor. she's in our family. but we have to talk about how we move forward. i think everybody bears some responsibility. if we want to win the house back and pick up 30 or 40 seats northern florida, southern indiana, michigan, wisconsin, where there's a big blue firewall fell, we need someone that can go to these districts. i go to these districts and promote the economic vision that we need in order to get those

trump voters back in our camp. >> jake, i want to read "the wall street journal," the democrats double down. what democrats should realize because everyone else does is that voters rejected both their policies and their governance. instead, democrats think last week was an accident. all this denial has cleared the field for massachusetts senator elizabeth warren, the leading voice calling on the party to recognize that it needs to change. she's telling the masses, however, that democrats lost because they didn't get big enough. they didn't spend enough. they didn't regulate enough. didn't socialize health care enough. her prescription, double down. that is precisely what democrats are doing and mrs. clinton's defeat progressives see their chance to run the democratic party and they may run it in the minority for a very long time. >> jake, steve schmidt said the morning after the election the democrats are about to enter

their tea party stage and it's going to be a long, costly stage. the democratic party is fighting for their future right now. do they go in the direction of congressman ryan or in the direction of elizabeth warren? >> that's the question and what tim ryan is doing is probably some would call him insane for doing this, but he's taking what a lot of people are saying behind the scenes and he knows this, people have been griping about nancy pelosi for some time even people who publicly like congressman ryan say she's their friend. people say it's insane that the same leadership team of 70 something year old men and women are at the top of the party after this blood bath. now, congressman ryan has formidable challenges. nancy pelosi raises huge piles of money but like you said in the kim strassel column, they

see her as a relic in the past. a lot of her liberal friends, prag progressive allies in the house are retire and leaving and congressman ryan is trying to play on the emerging narrative. we need a new message and new messenger and what we're doing ain't working. it's an emerging narrative he may be able to take advantage of. one more thought, he really can't lose here because that clip that you played at the top of the segment said nancy pelosi said she has two-thirds of the caucus. tim ryan is probably going to get more than one-third of the caucus in this vote. congressman, you're going to win either way. >> after he insulted me, he ended up -- i appreciate that. >> you're crazy as hell but you're going to do okay. >> nice recovery on the relationship between the two. congressman, what should the democratic party be saying to people like the voters in your district, youngstown, akron, who may have voted for barack obama twice but went and voted for

donald trump. what is the message the democratic party needs to put out that nancy pelosi and progressive members are not putting forward? >> we care about you. we go to your district. we understand your needs. we understand what your family is going through. we understand that 75% of people in the country are one paycheck away from having their total life implode before them. it's about being there. it's about talking to them and not talking down to them and we come in with lines like we're going to get you retrained. for what? in these areas there aren't a lot of jobs. people don't want to learn how to run a computer. they want to run a backhoe. to me we got to talk to that working class person. not white working class. black, brown, white, gay, straight, people who work for a living. we've gotten away from that. that's an important part. we have to go to districts. republicans will cut taxes for wealthy, throw people off health care and privatize medicare.

we should be able to take them anywhere in the country with the proper messenger and bring people back to the polls. >> do you think people responded better to bernie sanders than hillary clinton ein the idea th system is rigged. maybe they don't agree with the socialist solutions but does that message ring better with your people than does hillary clinton? >> the main message is economic. what's the new economy look like? what is america 2.0 look like? democrats should lead this charge. advance manufacturing. 3-d printing stuff. huge sector of the economy that's going to grow. want to bring manufacturing back, let's make windmills and solar panels. 8,000 component parts. that's the stuff we make in places like youngstown. >> what is the cultural gap between people of your district and people on the coast and the cities and the thriving heart of the democratic party as it

currently stands? what's missing? what is separating people? >> income. i think -- >> culturally -- >> how is your district different than nancy pelosi district? >> income. >> i think you put the stat up of the median income in san francisco versus the median income in places like youngstown, ohio. i mean, just the mindset in a lot of these places is different because we have huge poverty like the entire city. youngstown is 50% black. 50% white. and people just want an opportunity. i think in a lot of places around the country, people have that opportunity that we don't have. >> income and ability to aspire forward to grow. >> what's the aspiration? democrats used to be the party of aspiration. when parties are clicking, it's about aspiration. >> how about reagan and bill clinton? hillary clinton lost the same place as bill clinton cleaned up in. by the way, there's a great

article coming out this weekend in the "times" where he talks about the turnout and he brings up this great stat and i've always said americans just aren't as ideological as we all say they are. and david writes that large swaths of wisconsin that were won by barack obama were also won by donald trump, governor scott walker and democratic senator tammy baldwin. that shows you how much middle america is up for grabs. >> it really is. >> they aren't ideological. they want solutions. >> i think what congressman ryan is trying to do in challenging nancy pelosi is saying that, you know, it's not -- this is a problem in the democratic party we need to begin to solve and she's not doing it. i think if you get caught up in the comey letter or these other things blaming that on hillary clinton's loss on that, i think

you get in trouble and that's what democrats are beginning to say. >> the line is better. >> i'm jealous. >> took away purple lights. >> maybe he just hasn't started. >> i'm radiating light. >> hasn't lit up. >> sunshine and happy. >> congressman tim ryan, thank you very much. great to have you on the show. thanks for coming in. jake sherman, thanks to you as well. more must read opinion pages are ahead including won from gene robinson who says democrats can't just wait for the next barack obama. it's a good point. >> he ain't coming. no more than the next ronald reagan is coming. >> we'll be right back. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine.

the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.

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up next during the presidential campaign, mitt romney was pressured about vladimir putin's growing defiance. everyone laughed. listen now. is he poised to become donald trump's secretary of state? "the washington post" eugene robinson and msnbc's kasie hunt join the conversation. ♪

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>> governor romney, i'm glad you recognize al qaeda is a threat. when you asked what the biggest geopolitical fight is facing america, you said russia. the cold war has been over. >> i said in the same paragraph and iran is the greatest national security threat we

face. russia does continue to battle us in the u.n. time and time again. i have clear eyes on this. i won't wear rose colored glasses when it comes to russia or mr. putin and i won't give him more flexibility after the election. after the election he'll get more backbone. >> what's so incredible about that, that happened when obama was caught whispering to russian leaders. we'll give you more flexibility after the election. but that's a guy mitt romney that looks like he's ready to step in. >> it was a step ahead back then. >> he does agree with trump on iran. definitely on iran. real quickly though, we're talking about russia and thermal nuclear war. blah, blah, blah. we have breaking news here. we'll go over to the kanye west desk. live in london, willie geist is there right now with katty kay. so if you can hear me, if you can hear me, show that shot

because they know he's not in london. if you can hear me -- >> big ben behind me as you can see. >> i understand that kanye west broke some news last night. >> just handed a bulletin. >> at his concert in san jose last night, kanye west announced to the crowd, first of all, that he did not vote. who has the time. but if he had voted, he would have voted for donald j. trump. the crowd was not into that announcement. a hail of boos came down. >> jay-z was funny at the hillary clinton event. listen. i like the man. i got nothing against the man. >> that was your southern jay-z i think. >> i think it's time to stop this now. >> trump is down. >> i'm going to help you. >> somebody put together -- i have to find it for you. a super cut of a lot of stars of

hip-hop. >> what was their reason? >> it wasn't policy based. more about the plane i think than -- >> it's gone too long. joining us now in washington, pulitzer prize winning columnist and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. >> who does not side with kanye west on this matter. >> no. i love his music. i'm not down with that. >> he is a snappy dresser. >> here on set. msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt joins us. jon meachem is still with us. >> wow. >> thank you. thank you. >> so jon meacham, i saw an interesting chart yesterday in "the washington post" where "the washington post" said everybody calm down. donald trump is not falling

behind everybody else. in fact, the press is always in a hurry for appointments. if you look at where most appointments are made, a few scattered in november but most really start picking up mid december. >> i think that's right. i don't know about you all but it feels like it's been ten days since the election and it feels like aeons. so i think one of the things is the incredible novelty of a trump transition has sort of warped a lot of you are impressions about the pace of these things. and also prior to romney, the names themselves. >> i'll get back to you. i want to read what's up on the screen. david axelrod said he hadn't made major appointments in 2008. i don't remember being criticized for it. lots of reasons to be concerned about donald trump's transition. the pace of announcements is not one of them. that's not a fair shot.

and john meachem, i'll let you continue. it's not a fair shot. fools rush in. everyone is trying to get him to name all of these choices. it seems to me he's right on pace. >> he is. i'm curious your view of this particularly on the romney thing. is the romney possibility coming from trump himself or are there people around him who have raised that? >> i think it's coming from trump himself. he likes the team of rivals approach. i think he also understands that mitt romney will unify the party first, which i think is pretty important. think about that. you bring in your most vocal critic and so brings the party together but more importantly calms some international concerns at some of his other appointments might bring. >> we have a lot of people. joining the conversation, chris,

you write flirtations with mitt romney is smart. who he picks for key cabinet posts and secretary of state is one of the most defining indications of where trump's mind is. picking romney or nikki haley, another prominent critic with whom trump met thursday will choose something that's lacking in donald trump, the candidate. m magnanimity. someone that might challenge his assumptions or opinions from time to time. romney meeting is a step in the right direction. >> we'll read the whole "the washington post" here. it sends several messages across the country and the world. but one of the most important is

that donald trump is bigger than the past campaign. he's interested in getting the best people around him. >> first of all, mika, only because of auto correct did i spell that word properly. i spelled it wrong about 15 times. thank you, microsoft word. yeah, look, what you have to believe with trump is there's the possibility that the campaign version of him and the president version of him could be two different things. the campaign version of him every time he had a chance to go big, he went small. almost every time. this would, i think, show he gets it and understands the enormity of the job and understands the importance not just to the republican party but to the country. >> let's look at what's happened since the election. the speech that he gave, victory speech, was a speech that he insisted on writing.

and then when you move beyond that, again, talking to romney. doing that. and meetings with obama. a guy that he skewered and obama skewered him. the two can't -- >> he won the election. >> he was going to get flynn and sessions. >> those people are -- you know what, he won. that's what you get to do when you win. i would just say -- bannon is another example. that's exactly right. i would say you don't have to pick every rival. he doesn't even have to pick romney.

nikki haley, doesn't nikki haley. a good sign he's meeting with these people. it's helpful to pick someone -- you mentioned this. both to unify the republican party but also to send an important symbolic message that i get it. it's not just about me but the good of the country and putting people in places who are best able to do it. it's important policy-wise. i think it may be more important symbolically. >> the signal is sends. >> i'm not sure we've got such a kumbaya moment going on as we're suggesting. the president and barack obama had what seemed to be a good meeting but donald trump and barack obama while he's been touring europe, barack obama has been pretty tough and as the tour has gone on, he's got more tough on the president-elect and what he expects him to do. and i think the people that he's brought in, there are still some very hot people with michael

flynn and steve bannon and mitt romney does he really unify the republican party? he didn't do well with social conservatives in 2012. hasn't been seen as the big figure who unifies the republican party over the last four years. >> i think mitt romney is somebody that gained the president of all republicans even republicans like me that didn't think he was sufficiently conservative. the main thing is never trump crowd that is a small but very vocal, important crowd intellectually will be moved. the koerchs tif iconservatives will be moved. >> it's the professional class of the republican party. donald trump has clearly had an onslaught of new information whether it's intelligence information, meetings he's having on capitol hill. he's starting to realize i would imagine that this is a really big task ahead of him. he can't do it all by himself.

romney is somebody who would represent a way in for a lot of people that are going to be needed to try to govern the country who would otherwise stay on the outside. that's somebody i trust that i can work with. romney himself from sources i've been talking to and they've been for the most part have kept this close to the vest but my sense is that romney, this is something romney would seriously consider. i covered him for a long time. i think if you asked him first in public life, he's a patriot. above everything else. >> i also think his problems with conservatives in the 2012 election don't really apply to being secretary of state. the fact that he had romney care. a precursor to obama care. all things he got hit for and maybe lost for. now he just has to be a statesman. >> maybe he has to be bridge to the establishment. >> give cover to other people hesitant about joining a trump administration. if romney is doing it -- >> he absolutely does that. >> we're not all of the way there yet in washington. you can tell while yes they are

throwing parties behind closed doors with mike pence, republicans are nervous about what this means and they're not all yet on the same page. there's a risk for trump in that. >> gene, i want to read a little of your piece that says democrats can't just wait for the next barack obama. the republican party is fractured by ideological divisions led by an inexperienced and unpredictable president-elect. we were just talking in our last segment with tim ryan, it turns out the coalition was about barack obama. >> barack obama is a once in a lifetime political talent. he was, you know, he doesn't come along every year or every four years. you know, the piece really tried to look at what's the state of play now in our two-party system? right now honestly it's like 1 1/2. republicans are controlling the

presidency. both houses of congress. they're going to have a conservative majority on the supreme court once again. >> how did this happen? just eight years ago we were saying we have a permanent democratic majority. mika, you're on camera. >> i was getting katty a drink. when she wants a drink -- >> it's important. >> sorry about that. >> this seems to have happened fast. i have to give dan "the washington post" credit. he wrote a column that said it's assumed that republican party is not going to win back the white house. but if they did, it would be the greatest dominance of any political party since the 1920s. he was dead on. >> he was absolutely right. you know, so what happened? well, one thing that happened is democrats got shellacked in the 2010 and 2014 midterm elections

and in general for the last ten years democrats have not paid enough attention to and not done well enough in state and federal elections. in terms of dominance in the federal government, they control legislatures in 31 or 32 states and have 33 governorships i think. they paid attention to this. and they won. they organized. they spoke to voters at a grassroots level. they just flipped kentucky legislative chamber that had been democratic for, like, a century and now it's republican. >> we've been hearing for a year and a half and we've all been saying it. we're all guilty on this point. the republicans didn't have a ground game. democrats had the obama turnout

operation. how did we get that wrong? more importantly, how do we avoid getting it that wrong the next election? we were as wrong as anybody could be. >> you know, democrats do have a presidential year turnout operation and it did fairly well. didn't do as well as they thought because if democratic vote totals had been higher in a few cities, hillary clinton would be the president-elect. so it wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. but it was pretty good. it was there. what democrats didn't have was this sort of base of state and local officials that the republicans have that matters. and i think that's where democrats have to work much, much harder. you know, it's going to be a road back for the parties. right now it's truly in the wilderness. i just want to say one thing

about the earlier discussion about mitt romney if i could just toss it in. we believe mitt romney has lost his mind? he has a defined set of foreign policy ideas, which is coherent, which makes sense. i don't agree with all of it. he has it. and donald trump kind of doesn't and to the extent he does, it's different from romneys. i just can't believe he could serve in that administration. >> maybe he loves america. i'm not being facetious there. if i'm mitt romney, that's exactly why i want to go in there. i love my country. let's say this is democrats and republicans alike. whether it's donald trump or any president, if you think a president is lacking in a certain area and you can help, it's your responsibility -- >> i say this to women. women need to step up. we have to press reset and try and help. >> i understand that.

i understand why instinct of a longtime public servant would be when the president of the united states calls, of course you answer the phone and of course if he wants to talk to you about being secretary of state, you go and talk to him but you try to figure out if you're going to be helpful or not and can you be helpful in a context of disagreeing with fundamental policies of the president? >> that's negotiated out. i'll come here. i have to be able to have a voice. these are things that get hashed out in the meeting. >> they'll talk about it on saturday. let's talk about the democratic party for a second. leaders. bernie sanders. 74 years old. nancy pelosi. 76 years old. >> he's really 26. bernie. >> steny hoyer, 77 years old. 11 governors. 11 governors nationwide. >> average age of the top three leaders in the house on the democratic side 78.

average age for the republicans, 48. >> we're young for senate years. clintons bear responsibility to this as well. the young members of congress, tim ryan is one of them and if you talk to anyone that shows up in congress under the age of 40, they'll say i'm so frustrated being here. it's a generation of people who are used to startup culture and they come into the house of representatives on the democratic party and they say nothing here has changed in decades and that stripped the democratic party of any sort of real bench of young people. >> around the country they're not going to build up that bench because they don't have the leaders either. >> that's a consequence of

governing. that swings back and forth. it concentrates on building in the states. they're going to have to put focus there. that's something they can focus on and work on. the national leadership question, who is going to run for president in 2020 as a democrat? >> one of the problems is they don't have a bench. you have 11 governors. you lost 11 u.s. senate seats since barack obama was elected. they lost 68 outside seats and most devastating they lost over 900 state legislative seats. this would be the equivalent of the republican party having, like, three 1974s in a row which was their devastating midterm election. it's unbelievable. >> gene pointed out and he's right. 2010 and 2014, people focus on what happened at the senate and house level.

state legislatively is a disaster. a washout. i always say the greatest thing that happened to the republican party is barack obama. yes. he spent eight years in the white house. during those eight years, they have made massive gains. i wrote last year, if you look at the full party, this is assuming hillary clinton in the white house, the republican party is much healthier overall than democratic party. the problem you have is hillary clinton's emergence as de facto nominee 18 months ago and the fact that everyone in the party assumed she would win. glosses over the fact that they don't have a lot of people underneath. i was able to break the highest and hardest glass ceiling in 2008 and it will be easier for the next person. there was no next person. it was her again.

it stagnates at the top and all of the way down. who runs in 2020? >> mika got hammered for saying this a year and a half ago. but she said a lot of millennials, a lot of younger women came up to her and said, wait, okay. we want to break the glass ceiling but not necessarily with hillary clinton. before we go to break, let's talk about the history of the media getting it wrong when they declare the death of political parties. let's start with the year that you and i both actual ly worked on. 1964. the press predicting that republicans would be out of power for the next generation. 1974. already talked about it.

the watergate election. the watergate washout predicting the end of the republican party six years late r the reagan revolution began. i remember seeing articles in u.s. news and world report about the death of the democratic party in 1994. two years later what happened? bill clinton re-elected. you can say 2008 "time" magazine cover death of the gop? i wrote an article on that one. two years later the tea party rises. democrats are not dead. if we predict they are dead, we are assuring a huge mid year election next year. >> absolutely. i throw one more in which is bill clinton rose to power why? because george h.w. bush was so popular nobody wanted to run against him in 1991. so clinton was able to jump to the head of the line.

there's a pendulum in american life and american politics. we have this eight-year one-party white house rule that with the exception of roosevelt and truman and reagan and bush has held true by in large for more than a century. when we race to write the oby the -- oby tso there's somethine complicated going on than simply a choice. >> we have news right now. let's go to msnbc news correspondent hallie jackson outside trump tower in new york city. what's the latest? >> reporter: he has accepted. it's not clear why this wasn't

stated initially when the word came out that president-elect donald trump had offered the position of national security adviser to lieutenant general flynn. so it looks as though that's kind of the first major appointment other than the west wing chief of staff and chief strategist positions that's going to come out. we expect potentially to hear of other positions today. there's word we may get reporting out of there. the president-elect is here obviously at trump tower. he's headed to one of his properties in new jersey later on today where he's expected to spend the weekend and expected also to meet as you've been talking about with mitt romney, which is sort of an eyebrow raising choice. you talk to folks inside trump tower about how serious that is that romney is under consideration of secretary of state and he is meeting with the president-elect so there is a seriousness in that regard. folks i talked to still think that rudy giuliani might be the front runner just given how loyal giuliani was. that said, we keep saying it, unless you hear it from donald trump, this reminds me of vice president. until you hear it from donald

trump, you couldn't say it with true 100% certainty. >> hallie jackson, thank you very much. wow. okay. chris cillizza, eugene robinson -- >> we shall see. >> okay. and jon meacham. i'm just being honest. this is what you got. >> i just don't think there's any way you would get a guy that has that much problem and is that disrespectful to the president-elect and has every day. there are more stories about him doing what hillary clinton and bill clinton did. so why in the world would they open up that -- >> michael flynn gave paid speeches to russia and his links with turkey. some of those issues are there. taking money from foreign governments. >> you don't want to pile on that with somebody else. michael flynn and jeff sessions, just always going to be in his cabinet. >> these are jobs that don't have to be confirmed. >> it doesn't make sense.

>> after it was obvious trump was going to win -- >> he's been behaving publicly in a disturbing way if you know how these things go. >> i thought it was telling yesterday when kellyanne conway was here and you asked what mr. trump thought about giuliani publicly lobbying, she said these discussions are better to be in private. >> he's capable of dropping loyalists. >> he knows nobody anything. >> he owes the country the best. >> he owes the country the best. he doesn't owe rudy giuliani anything. he's embarrassed him over the past week. imagine what happens when he's secretary of state. it would be a nightmare. >> i can't. >> an absolute nightmare. it would be a meltdown. >> coming up, chief strategist and communications director for rnc sean spicer will be here on set. and msnbc's steve kornacki joins

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>> i have every intention of serving out my full term as governor. i've said that from the beginning. and i have no reason to believe as we stand here today that i will do anything other than serve out my full term as

governor no matter what happens. whether i join the trump administration in some capacity, whether i stay here and finish my term, and whether 2018 on january 18 is just another day at work in a job in the federal government or whether it's my final day as servant of the people of this state. i've had a pretty good run. one thing you should know for sure is that i'm going to leave the job in exactly the same way i came into it. loudly. >> joining us now, msnbc anchor and political correspondent steve kornacki and deputy managing editor of "time" magazine, michael duffy. good to have you both onboard. >> steve, we were talking last segment about the death of the democratic party and the rise of the republican party, which of course we were just saying the opposite over the past year. everybody was. but david has this fascinating article that's coming out in

"the new york times" this weekend where he talks about how large parts of wisconsin that voted for barack obama, voted for donald trump. scott walker for governor and tammy baldwin for senate. that is america, is it not? >> here are 13 counties in wisconsin that have gone obama twice -- they went for barack obama, a lesbian democratic and for donald trump. they're the same voters. and i think it's the same thing you look in michigan north of detroit, blue collar mccomb county. huge swing of 50,000 votes from four years ago. a double digit obama win to double digit trump win. that's why he won michigan. >> every time i go out and people talk about how ideological america is. the same people that voted for reagan twice voted for clinton twice voted for george w. bush

twice voted for barack obama twice. >> and it does stage voting agents of change. those three candidates in wisconsin all were agents of change at their moment. what you're seeing a huge appetite we talked about for days among voters for something different. something that works. something that actually can move the ham sandwich from here to here. seeing that, they aren't seeing that in what they get in washington and they're looking for something that can move the ball. >> when you listen to that trend. barack obama, tammy baldwin and then donald trump, the argument that many people are making democrats saying it was only racists and bigots that put donald trump into the white house. there are racists and bigots that he appealed to and they said so afterward but that's such an oversimplification and lack of understanding of what happened. as you heard tim ryan democratic congressman from youngstown, ohio, area talk about his voters that flipped from obama to trump. there's much more going on there. to not understand that could be a huge failing for the democratic party as it goes

forward. >> i think it could fall even lower. >> it's great to be back here by the way. transition headquarters. i feel like you guys are making good progress. just because change was motivating factor in this election, it doesn't mean that everyone he picks is going to be this huge departure from the norm. you're setting up a situation in the white house where they have bannon and reince priebus and perhaps you're going to see mike flynn and -- >> we are. word is he accepted. >> if he ends up with someone like mitt romney, you have balance. you see a model emerging here as potential one hand and other. >> now we look at state and defense and maybe treasury as defining, incredibly important appointments that honestly could make or break whether this is a cluster or not. >> we keep our eye on this idea that he'll be one from group b and one from group a and move

forward perhaps in that model. >> i don't think he's thinking that way. who does he want around him? he feels very -- he's a very instinctive guy. i'm hoping that he feels comfortable with some challenge around him because mitt romney is, i think, very hopeful sign. >> what are you seeing through the lens of somebody that's written about presidents and the presidents club the past couple weeks? >> the most amazing thing going on is this relationship between trump and obama. every time trump says something or tweets something, 24 to 36 hours the president will come out and put a gloss on it. signal to allies. this is what i'm seeing. you have this -- obama is the chaser. they walk through the first week like a melody. obama is trying to reassure people every time trump says something that is a little bit

unsure. that's kind of classic transition club politics where the guy sitting in the office is going to do everything he can to help the new guy get it right because so much is riding on it. >> i'm also just really curious if this is going to continue after barack obama leaves office. donald trump said i plan to use him for counsel in the future. >> i need him. >> i wonder if this is a thing where donald trump is calling up barack obama on a not infrequent basis just sort of talking maybe late at night and maybe just sounding him out. >> sometimes obama without being asked is stepping out to say things at a moment where he thinks people need reassurance. >> let me ask you this. in your sort of study of presidents, hillary clinton at this point, how does she compare to how others who have lost in the past in terms of what she has said? what she hasn't said? >> more importantly what she has

not said. >> in the speech for children's defense fund on sunday or monday, came out. this is a much earlier appearance than a lot of other losing candidates have made. sometimes they've gone underground for days, weeks, months. all of them have talked about afterward being deeply almost physically depressed. jimmy carter was that way. george herbert walker bush was that way. they feel they let their family down. country down. party down and a personal failure. so i thought it was particularly brave she came out for the second time in less than a week saying this has hurt me but has been talking openly and clearly a difference between maybe how we talk about grief and loss and mourning and how we know how to deal with it today. >> another news network is reporting that jeff sessions has been selected as attorney general. that is not the case as of yet.

he's still in the running for several cabinet posts. the job has not been offered as of yet. they are actually looking at jeff sessions for a variety of -- they are vetting him. they're going through all of the process. but they haven't decided which spot to give him. because unlike rudy giuliani, jeff sessions doesn't go out and tell you what he will and will not do. can i ask you -- meacham, let me ask you. you know where i'm going. have you ever seen a candidate for a position as important as secretary of state go out and try to corner a president-elect and almost embarrass him and force his hand as much as rudy giuliani has? >> i was a little concerned at first that he was shooting for

justice. >> he turned down a.g. doesn't want that job. >> it's classic to set your sight on the biggest job in the cabinet. that's state. but he campaigned for it in a way i don't recall anyone campaigning for that job for the whole trick of that is to say you don't want it. whatever i'm asked to do, i'll be glad to do even if you give me the fda. that was not rudy's move. was it that that disqualified him? connection deals that disqualified him or maybe just rudy was more than trump wanted around. >> not an ideal way of behaving at a time like this. >> which might be reassuring. >> what? >> what's reassuring? >> it might be reassuring that trump took a look at that and said -- >> that is reassuring. bad form. i think also he's been disturbed by a lot of people by all of the

"the new york times" stories about the money that rudy giuliani made overseas and the terrorist group that he got money from, former terrorist group now. terrorist group until 2012. >> unlike lieutenant general flynn who does not have to go through a confirmation process, rudy giuliani would have to sit and have that read out to him and then have people vote for someone who did make speeches to iranian terrorist groups. >> that would be a very ugly vote. it would make john towers -- you remember john towers? look like a walk in the park. >> i will say though from rudy giuliani's standpoint and i agree it looks like he may have sabotaged himself here. i understand the psychological aspect of this i think in that he was totally and completely out of the game. he's into his 70s. he basically made a bet on donald trump when nobody was betting on donald trump. not only that, he stayed with the bet when that "access hollywood" thing broke and when a guy like chris christie didn't want to be seen with donald

trump, he did. so i think he felt as soon as that election came in, this was a win for him. he's going to cash in and get something big and made the mistake of saying it publicly. >> a lot. >> steve kornacki, thank you. michael duffy, thank you as well. the new issue of "time" magazine has a big feature on the trump transition. >> the cover is about 100 most influential photographs of all times. >> good. we've got it. >> coming up, president-elect has 4,000 jobs to fill. it's a good thing the trump team has received almost 47,000 resumes. that's according to the chief strategy for the rnc. we'll talk transition with sean spicer next on "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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joining us now, chief strategist and communication director for the republican national committee. you caught us in the middle of a conversation. sean spicer, good to see you.

let's talk about some of the positions out there. nbc news confirming that lieutenant general michael flynn accepted donald trump's offer to be national security adviser. smart choice? good choice? any concerns for you? >> first, i think it's very likely that there will be announcements in several areas later today. later this morning. lieutenant general flynn is probably one of the brightest choices that you could ever ask for for nsa. if donald trump goes out and makes some of these things official. one of the things that i think you all understand is that president-elect trump until he says it's official, it's not official. that's been the way he's run his business. the way he ran his campaign and way he'll run his r administration. you look at the people that have come in and out. fred smith. all of these people with foreign policy experience. top flight all of the way around. best and brightest coming in and

out of trump tower. he continues to meet with people from all over the foreign policy military affairs world. making sure he's going to be ready. >> why meet with mitt romney? >> several reasons. what i think is the most is that it sends a clear signal that it's not about political affiliation whether you support him or not. it's about whether or not you want to help move this country forward plain and simple. you have seen that he's met with ted cruz and others who weren't necessarily huge supporters of his. he's met with democrats, independents, republicans. his goal is to pick the highest quality and caliber of individuals to advance the agenda that will make the country better. that's it. plain and simple. for mitt romney it sends a very clear signal to everyone that this is about a guy who is going to pick people regardless of their background or their political affiliation if they're willing to bring ideas to the table to advance the agenda. >> could he reasonably pick

somebody for secretary of state that's been at odds with donald trump? >> sure. you have seen since 2:00 a.m. wednesday morning when he took that stage that this is a guy who understands the role of president is going to be great leader. it's the people he's met with. the caliber. diversity. quality. words he spoke and show that he's ready to take this country forward. >> this lobbying ban, so obama tried to have a lobbying beg ii. it didn't work out because there were pseudo lobbyists that were consultants for special interest. is there a plan in place to go to the next level on this? >> this is the next level. think how forward thinking this is. it used to be what you did in the past. what trump's view is that it's about the future. it's forward thinking. it's saying you can't be a lobbyist for five years after you assume a position in the trump administration and you have a lifetime ban on representing a foreign government. why is that important? because when you come into a

trump administration, your goal should be helping and serving the country and not helping and serving yourself. >> lobbyist is a narrow definition. >> the law says that if you file a lobbying disclosure form and register as a lobbyist, you are banned. no other way -- >> expand definition of a lobbyist. >> right now we have to go with laws on the books to show this is kind of thinking and vision he has that people that come into a trump administration are there to serve this country and advance donald trump's agenda and not serve themselves. >> talk about how crazy is it inside there right now? application 47,000. >> in terms of -- you see the list of these people coming in and out that door at trump tower and then the stuff coming in online. over 50,000 application for people to fill 4,000 plus government jobs. we launched three sets of landing teams. first one, national security team department of state, department of defense, department of justice and nsc hit the ground today.

they are designated by president-elect to meet and start the transition process over the next 60 days. a similar team will launch monday and tuesday of next week. but this will ensure that on day one everything is ready to go. >> sean, i know you have to run. i want to ask you quickly what you saw election day last week that a lot of people including those inside the clinton campaign did not see what would happen that night. >> joe and other folks have talked about this. we spent $200 million in data to understand where voters were, what was making them tick, who we thought we could get. we saw that path that movement towards donald trump in states like michigan and minnesota and wisconsin a couple weeks out and said this is where we think it's headed. these are people left to get. these are unallocated vote we can get those from. we went out and door knocked.

trump was on the air. strategic the last 14 days. that's what real good enriched data does. >> that was rnc data operation and not trump campaign? >> it was a combined effort. it was an investment that reince priebus said i'll invest $200 million. the trump campaign philosophically bought into it after the indiana primary and said we like it. it's perfect. we meld together and put together the best campaign that anyone has seen. >> congratulations. good to see you. we're back in a moment on "morning joe." yeah, with liberty mutual all i needed to do to get an estimate was snap a photo of the damage and voila! voila! (sigh) i wish my insurance company had that... wait! hold it... hold it boys... there's supposed to be three of you... where's your brother? where's your brother? hey, where's charlie? charlie?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance

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joe." we're sorting through some things here. first of all, so, nbc is reporting that jeff sessions is -- has been asked to be a.g. also we're hearing that "new york times" also reporting that my source, we'll say, is very close to trump and the entire process, says that it's not final until it's announced, and it could change. that said, a lot of other people inside of trump tower saying actually the offer has been extended. we'll see there. >> also, expect selection for cia, head of the cia, coming up in the next couple hours. so we shall see who that is. and with that, we shall return.

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♪ ♪ ♪ is it a force of nature? or a sales event? the season of audi sales event is here. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during the season of audi sales event. (bing) joining us now, contributor to "time" magazine, msnbc political analyst, our good friend elise jordan and president and general council of ending spaker, brian baker.

it's focused on pushing for a responsible federal budget. welcome. >> a lot of stuff going on, a lot of names starting to fly out. we just heard that the cia appointment is going to be made later. nomination is going to be made later. and a name at the top of the list and widely rumored to get that spot, mike pompeo from wichita, a guy, ryan, that you know very well. >> we know well. mike has a great resmy. he's been a great military leader. well respected in the republican conference and he'll be a great cia director if that's true. >> we shall see. you never know. >> been a busy day, by the way. lieutenant general michael flynn reportedly accepting his post as national security adviser. nbc reporting now that jeff sessions will be attorney general, and we should learn in the next couple hours about cia. >> interesting that so many are on the national security side, we haven't yet heard about treasury coming out, because there's a lot moving on the

economy, too, but on the national security side. >> senator sessions is a great pick. he's obviously been an incredible leader in the u.s. senate, especially on immigration. obviously, served as u.s. attorney. was nominated for the federal bench by reagan. he's really, really well respected on national security and on federal law enforcement issues. >> so elise, what's your take on the picks so far? >> i think mike pompeo is reassuring. one of the names bandied around was jose rodriguez, who destroyed the waterboarding tapes against the bush white house's explicit instructions. that was a troubling name to be floating around. i think that mike pompeo will be reassuring to people who are wanting to make sure that the rule of law is upheld by our intelligence community. >> what about the romney pick if romney does in fact become secretary of state? >> he would be an extraordinary pick, but i really am high lly doubtful that that would happen. i don't see donald trump after

romney's explicit opposition to him throughout the duration of his campaign offering mitt romney such a plum role. it seems unlikely. >> yet, brian, you worked with some people who really were on the forefront of the never trump group. who now donald trump is actually politically aligned with. >> sure, we weren't never trumpers. we were not trump for the nomination. because the ricketts supported a different candidate. once he became the nominee, they were in for him all the way. president-elect trump, i think, has done a fantastic job. vice president-elect pence support eed someone else in the primary and then went to him. steve bannon, unbelievable strategist. and reince priebus, a great comfagz. i think he would be well served by governor romney. he was right, dead right in 2012 when he debated president obama who sort of mocked him. for the last four years, we went

through buyer's remorse seeing he was right on foreign policy. i think he would be well served to pick governor romney. >> a fiscal conservative and a deficit hawk, are you concerned about the impact that massive tax cuts combined with a fiscal expansionary infrastructure spending program might have on the deficit down the line? >> it's all about economic growth. >> deficits are fine at the moment? >> the only way to solve our problems on a fiscal and economic problem and a societal level is to have economic growth. more jobs, higher income. >> but spending counts. you are pushing for a responsible federal budget. >> spending counts, but we need to have economic growth. >> this is going to be paid for, right? there's no way we can have the kind of infrastructure program the trump campaign would like. >> when you're not looking at entitlement programs either, are you concerned about that? >> certainly, but when you have a guy like paul ryan who three

years ago had co-sponsors on his bill is speaker of the house. i feel comfortable when you have paul ryan guiding the house of representatives and president trump who is obviously focused on job creation. that's the right mix for job growth in america. >> elise, concerns about the federal budget? >> definitely. i think with the military too, the increases he proposed, how is he going to pay for it? it seems fantastical at this stage. if he's going to follow through with some of the extreme measures he proposed in the campaign. one point about romney, if he is secretary of state, he would be the one implementing the so-called extreme vetting, and it's interesting because the state department is such a huge bureaucracy. it's notorious for its inefficiencies. i wonder if mitt romney could be the consultant who could go in there and tighten up the process in a way that is actually respectful of the american constitution. >> whether or not the president obama picks governor romney or

not, it's his selection alone, it shows that the transition is proceeding in a measured way, in a very responsible way. i think the fact they're considering people from all across the party and leaders from all across america is a real sign of how president trump will govern. i think this is wonderful. as for your question about the structure of a build, look, they don't become president and vice president until january. so let's give them some time to pick their cabinet, and i'm certain the bill will be responsible and reflect the principles of economic growth. >> as someone who didn't support trump throughout the campaign, are you more or less heartened by the process you have seen in the last 48, 72 hours out of trump tower? >> overall, i am heartened, if he does make sane, reasonable picks for these cabinet positions. and it does seem like he's doing that. he's proceeding carefully, and you know, i'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt and hoping for the best. as the president of our great country. >> all right. elise, thank so much for being here. >> brian baker, go cubs. >> absolutely.

>> we're going to reset the table. in the next hour of "morning joe" starts right now. >> you say, wait, wait, wait. isn't he a huge business success? doesn't he know what he's talking about? no, he isn't. and no, he doesn't. here's what i know. donald trump is a phony, a fraud. his promises are as worthless as a degree from trump university. [ cheers and applause ] he's playing the members of the american public for suckers. he gets a free ride to the white house, and all we get is a lousy hat. >> good morning. it is friday. we got through a week.

>> we did. >> november 18th. >> katty, what are you laughing about? >> catching up. >> yeah. >> we missed katty. we tell secrets openly on the set here. with us on set, washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. political writer for the "new york times," nicholas confessore, and in nashville, tennessee, oh -- >> he's back. >> he was here yesterday. he bored us to death. >> i know, but you know, i wanted to be bored today. my kids said, daddy, daddy, there was a horrible man who put us to sleep. >> he said to me yesterday. >> i did. willie thought it was a cheese. >> barnicle thought it was a new car. >> we bore you to death and then we're back tomorrow? >> it's good to have katty here so we can learn how to lose an empire gracefully. >> wow. >> oh, my god. okay. >> okay. >> i can give you the road map

because you're heading there, jon. >> this is on. well, let's start, then -- >> so jon, one of the reasons i wanted you back here is fascinating news yesterday broke, and there's historical precedence to it. woodrow wilson did it, where mitt romney's name actually under consideration, a name that would calm a lot of fears on the international stage and also domestically and the markets. mitt romney being talked to, considered for secretary of state. how important is that? and talk about the historical precedence, sort of the team of rivals approach. >> well, you're right. wilson and williams jenning bryant which will get mika excited at this hour. >> she loves it. >> can't stand it. >> exactly. the crisis of 1940, what did roosevelt do? he reached out to the man who would run against him as vice president four years before. he put him in the cabinet. the great doris goodwin,

obviously, her great conceit about lincoln bringing the rivals of the republican party into the cabinet as it faced the crisis of union. and of course, barack obama with hillary clinton four years ago. so you know, it would clearly be a reassuring signal. it's so much a reassuring signal one wondered how much of it is a signal as opposed to a reality. but there is a significant american history of reaching out to create a cabinet that would represent all elements of a party, and indeed, all elements of the spectrum. can he bring in a democrat as well? >> it's also a balance, mika, that the first bit of news today, general flynn, somebody obviously who makes a lot of people in the international community uneasy and nervous, mitt romney would be a very good balance to that, a rudy giuliani would be a full-blown international crisis. >> it shows an openness of mind that some didn't expect of trump

because mitt romney hasn't been particularly generous with kind words for donald trump during the campaign. here he is back in march. >> donald trump tells us that he's very, very smart. i'm afraid that it comes to foreign policy, he is very, very not smart. donald trump says he admired vladimir putin. at the same time, he's called george w. bush a liar. that is a twisted example of evil trumping good. he claimed that he had spoken clearly and boldly against going into iraq. wrong. he spoke in favor of invading iraq. he said he saw thousands of muslims in new jersey celebrating 9/11. wrong. he saw no such thing. he imagined it. his imagination must not be married to real power. his foreign policies would make america and the world less safe. he has neither the temperament nor the judgment to be

president, and his personal qualities would mean that america would cease to be a shining city on a hill. >> so willie, you know, i actually talked to donald yesterday. and actually was like, romney? romney, what are you talking about? he said, he's killed you. he said, joe, i have been pounding him for five years. this is a tough game. and you've got to be able to take as much as you give. now, that's a side of donald trump that i know a lot of people haven't seen. that's why this romney pick not only surprised so many people but i think also would comfort a lot of people, again, not only internationally but also here domestically. >> there were a lot of sighs of relief yesterday, just talking to people. saying, okay, mitt romney. there you go. he's an adult. he's lived in the world, been a businessman and a governor. he ran the olympics. he has great relationships around the world. that's a guy i can see as secretary of state.

to jon's point, the question for me is is this more signaling? is this putting nikki haley's name out there because she represents something that would comfort some people about the way donald trump might surround himself with people who he opposed during the election and who have different views than him, or is this real? if it's real, it's an encouraging side. >> from everything i have heard on all sides here, it's very real. >> that's good news. >> you know, when you listen to that sound bite of "meet the press," it's interesting because in some ways i heard newscasting calling these jobs plum jobs. these are horrible jobs. these are the hardest jobs in the world. and i actually watched -- >> you know that, by the way. >> i watched my family from the inside out go through one of these jobs. it's all consuming, the incoming is literally indescribable. so you hear romney so critical about foreign policy. it's almost like donald is like, really? so hard, you do it. come on in. >> go back to 2008.

and you could find horrible things that hillary clinton said about barack obama. and barack obama's team basically accused bill and hillary clinton of being bigots in the south carolina primary. when it's all over, who did he need as secretary of state? brought the party together, brought the country together. >> the right. look. he needs some of these people if he wants to actually fill the middle and lower ranks of the appointments iphis administration. i would say -- >> that is correct. >> i feel like i'm watching a reality tv show where the casts from the past seasonalize come back for a reunion and talk to each other and hang out. i feel like we're seeing like all the people who were involved in this campaign for two years coming and having a seat in trump tower. i am not sure if it's real. if it is real and he's -- you know, people like haley and romney, it changes the game and maybe he's bringing in people who are not trumpers, basically. >> how important is it, katty, to actually signal, which he seems to be doing, that, yeah, i

don't care what people have said about me in the past. i care -- >> the only loyalty i have is to the american people. >> who's going to help me move forward in the future. i'm sure theresa may and boris had a few cross words before she pulled him onboard. >> yeah, a lot of speculation about why he was given that difficult job. one of the criticisms of the trump campaign is he has brought in only loyalists at the expense of experience and some of the people he had around him are not necessarily the most talented or experienced in their fields and he's just rewarding loyalty. if he reaches out and you're suggesting this is real, if he reaches out to mitt romney and puts him in that senior position, that would say something about his management style. i think it's also -- you know, foreign policy management, mika knows this, is a little bit about temperament. we're living in a world full of crises, and some of the people like michael flynn are hot. these are hot people. you need a little cool to moderate that.

and mitt romney would signal to the world that there was somebody there who was measured and was going to not necessarily do things out of some idealogical conviction that were rash, perhaps. >> that's exactly what i have been saying. he's the disrupter in the middle. he does not need giulianis and boltons disrupting on the outside. and by the way, again, flynn, let's talk about general flynn. makes the appointment of somebody who is temperamentally sound like mitt romney all the more important. >> although whether romney would have the weight, you know there have been secretary of states who have not had the ear of the white house, right? >> like john kerry. >> and michael flynn, or colin powell, for example, not necessarily. michael flynn clearly will have president trump's ear. and he's very close to him. and that, i think, signals to me a better signal for what direction donald trump wants to go than putting mitt romney in this position. >> by the way, the one thing i have learned about donald trump, and mika i have over the past 10

or 11 years, he cares about who got him good information last and who got him bad information. if you get donald trump bad information and you embarrass him, you go to the back of the line very quickly. he's very loyal right now to general flynn because of what happened during the campaign. but the one thing i have known about trump's management style is it's based on performance. he's not like, you know, bush 41. well, i was in skull and bones with him at yale 50 years ago. i can't fire him. no. he's not that way. >> this pair of appointments if they are appointments, romney and flynn, kind of raises some questions about policy in regard to russia. >> another really good balance, though. >> a balance or a schizophrenia. romney said putin is our number one foe. and flynn has appeared on propaganda network for russia. so what direction -- >> for putin. >> exactly. what direction is he going to take on russia?

>> who is he going to listen to? >> hopefully you get all sides. >> one other interesting on romney people have said, how can romney take this job after all the terrible things he said. he's taking it perhaps because of the things he said, which he believes perhaps donald trump needs moderation and it's an act of patriotism to step between donald trump and the rest of the world. those things are not mutually exclusive. making that speech about donald trump and saying he's not equipped to handle it, maybe that's why he would take the job. >> it sends a signal as one of donald trump's toughest critics, hey, i'm putting this behind me for the good of the country. i'm behind the president-elect. you need to do the same. >> i'm bringing in the highest quality. >> here's the news we do know. a senior campaign transition official confirms that president-elect trump has asked lieutenant general michael flynn to serve as his national security adviser. flynn had trump's ear on national security matters during the campaign. and he has helped drive the

president-elect's policy on his approach to russia as well as his posture against islamic terror. flynn has had a collegeable relationship with vladimir putin shown here seated next to putin in an event celebrated the tenth anniversary of rt, the state-backed russian broadcaster. flynn has also made some controversial comments in the past like this tweet from february. fear of muslims is rational. please forward this to others. the truth fears no questions. he also later apologized after retweeting an anti-semitic tweet this past july. and known a little bit as pretty much a hot hair. >> it's actually from all of the reports i have seen, it's interesting. there's a tale of two general flynns. there's a general flynn that barack obama appointed. the general flynn who got pretty high marks running intel for defense. and then there's the tweeting

general flynn that has caused a lot of concerns. >> twitter is a problem, isn't it it? >> a real problem. >> not helpful. >> yeah. >> general flynn, who was actually moved out by barack obama in 2014 because of disagreements over intel policy, since he's come out, even amongst his peers he's raised a lot of eyebrows. a trip to russia, for example, which was organized by his speeching agency. he sits next to vladimir putin. that was seen as an endorsement of vladimir putin. he also has with him his chief of staff, his son, who has propagated conspiracy theories online. somebody who has said that marco rubio, for example, was addicted to cocaine, and used to have wild parties. and you have to look at the people people surround themselves with, right? if general flynn keeps his son, who has been really quite extreme in some of the things he's said and done and posted online, with him when he comes into the white house, that's not a reassuring sign. >> yeah.

>> also, there's a cumulative effect, nick, of all this. there's the steve bannon controversy that blew up. it seems to be dying down a bit. but now you have general flynn, with some incensensitive remark. and we know jeff sessions coming up, most likely for attorney general, said things in his past that were racially insensitive as well. and you create, again, this narrative that continues to move forward. i have no doubt that flynn was going to be picked. and i don't think anybody else did either. i'm sure sessions will get whatever sessions wants. but again, i think this underlines the point that if you're going to get a couple loyalists that have said some crack pot things in the past, you sure as hell better have better steady hands at state, at defense, and at treasury. or this goes into a full-blown meltdown. and listen to them or this goes into a full-blown meltdown, as bad as bill clinton's in 1993

when he took office. >> i'm paying close attention to this tension in the appointments between the people who are with trump and the campaign and the people who are not. a team of rivals, right? when he was running, the party apparatus kind of ran away from him in terms of the intellectuals and experts. the people who stuck with him are the ones now in loo for the top jobs. the question is, has trump got the confidence to bring the people like mitt romney, who might allay some of the people who were worried about his judgment and temperament. it's the big question. >> it is. >> a couple updates on this before we get to break. yesterday, the trump campaign banned state and federal lobbyists from joining the administration. >> that's big news. >> it is. it would require staffers to pledge not to lobby for five years after leaving government. >> this is massive news. there's already people when i know whining saying it's going to be less likely for good people to serve in government. well, good? i mean, good, if those, quote, good people only want to go in to make money.

>> this is something that people have called for, for a long time, and they didn't have the guts to do it. donald trump is doing it. >> still ahead on "morning joe," did fake news help skew the election? one of the people who wrielts t writes the phony headline s thinks it did. >> plus, will jared kushner get top security clearance. the front page of the "new york times" is looking at that. we'll look at what role he could play in the trump white house. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> if he could just get it right, that would be a good enough role for him. >> i mean, i get it right occasionally. isn't that good enough for you guys? we get it right more than you think we do. day one forecast, 98% accuracy. so keep that in mind. no matter what i'm about to tell you and show you, there's no way it's going to top lokey. it's an australian cattle dog and he got his first experience with snow yesterday in mesa, colorado. look at the joy.

just chomping the flakes left and right there. yeah, hard to top that. that was the first snow, by the way, that denver has experienced in over 200 days. a pretty big snow drought for areas in colorado. great for the upcoming ski season. warnings for nebraska to minnesota and a big chunk with blizzard warnings. the worst is now going on, no is when they're telling everyone to stay on the roads. the blue with the white, that's oneench per hour snows. so from sioux falls to watertown, you're in the heart of it now. that will spread across minnesota in the day. the other story, the cold. finally appearing. we have gone through such a warm november. it's been ridiculous. now we're seeing signs of where we should be. denver down to 40 degrees. oklahoma city at 54. we're still exceptionally warm everywhere east of the mississippi and that ends this weekend. on saturday, the cold air rushes through chicago, st. louis, indianapolis, detroit, and cleveland. for the east coast, it will arrive on sunday. the only wet weather, northern

california, san francisco, upwards to the pacific northwest will deal with wet weather. if you like snow, you have been waiting for it, on sunday, the great lakes, lake effect snow machine will turn on. syracuse, rochester, watertown, erie, cleveland, watch out. you'll be doing shoveling as we go throughout your sunday. we leave you with a shot of new york city. two more warm, beautiful, early fall-like days and sunday will feel like winter. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, isn't it time to let the real you shine through?

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well, willie, the "new york times" has another story on rudy giuliani. >> what? is he doing more? >> a lot of money. a lot of speeches. >> i thought he was nominating himself. >> i thought it was a hillary story. potential giuliani conflicts on the front of "new york times." on top of that giuliani conflicts, democrats are going to start calling him crooked rudy. "new york times," son-in-law tests legal path to the white house job. so jared kushner has, we know jared. mika. and he's got into this campaign, and we have been talking about a calming influence. he would definitely be that. >> he's also been the unlikely force behind the trump success out in america. and working with people, developing databases, and finding new strategies to get

the vote out. >> i have to say, he's 35 years old, and we're talking about the rnc getting stuff right. willie, jared was a guy all along talking about -- i said why are you going to minnesota? because we're closer than people think we are. we lost by one point. named all these different states. he actually, again, yeah, he's a brilliant guy. and he figured this stuff out a lot time ago. he was calling election night when everybody was saying they were going to lose all the big swing states. i called him up at 6:00. he said, no. unless our guys are completely wrong. he said it. you know, he sounded like david axelrod, actually, two days before the election in 2012. no, we're going to win by four points. but i think more importantly, it's his temperament. again, very, very steady. i have never heard him raise his voice. >> never. >> i personally think he is badly needed in the white house. >> he's such an interesting figure in this trump tableau. 35-year-old real estate magnate

in his own right who is selling buildings while he was in college. bought the new york observer newspaper when he was like 26 years old. since you guys know him better than i do, i should ask back to you, what is it about him of all the people around trump that trump trusts so much? this guy who hasn't been in politics before but appears to have good instincts. why does trump trust him? why is he one of the last guys in the room? >> proven it slowly over time. >> that's the thing. his advice to trump has been right. just to be really blunt. when donald trump got in trouble and stayed in trouble, it's because he wasn't listening to people like jared. he was saying, let's not talk about the khans. let's move on from the khans. let's not talk about judge curiel. but more importantly than that, he actually plays a role -- i don't know exactly what role melania will play in the white house, but historically, jon meacham, jared seems to play the role that nancy reagan played,

where nancy was seen as being very tough. actually, she was the gate keeper keeping all the sick afan afants and the hanger-onners and nuts away from ronald reagan. that's kind of what jared does. he does his best to keep the crazies away and to make sure he gets the best information. >> yeah. miss reagan was the great protector. and arguably critical to president reagan becoming president reagan. it was jimmy stewart who said if reagan had marries nancy the first time, he would have won an academy award. so i think there's that role, that's fascinating. the other thing i have been thinking about is the bobby kennedy example. and you know, what kennedy said about joked about it, that they had to find some way for bobby to get legal experience before he went into practice. so there's -- there are issues

here, but if he's the trump whisperer, if he's someone who can make him calm, then -- and focused, then that's a role that someone needs to play. if that's him, that's great. >> i think more importantly than that, instead of being the trump whisperer, because again, trump is trump. trump decides what he's going to do and be, when he's going to bbe it. the important role, at least what i have seen, and i'm not lobbying for everybody. i'm just an american. i think we're on a razor's edge right now, to be really honest with you in which direction this goes. jared keeps the environment calm around him. >> right. >> unlike a lot of political operatives who run around and stress and throw things against the wall. i have never heard him raise his voice. >> somebody like michael flynn who is proposing things on the foreign policy front and the obvious example would be to do with islamic state, and he's proposing something that is

impetuous or might not work or sounds simple but actually could cause long-term problems, my question would be what role does jared play, the calming influence in that situation? how much is he on top of specific policy? how much is he going to be engaged in some of the trickier decisions that the president is going to have to make, and how much is he just going to give him space to make the decisions without necessarily having the last influence of michael flynn or steve bannon, who are some of the more hot heads in the white house at the moment. >> jared's there all the time. he's omnipresent. flynn is not going to sneak in the room. you can ask a lot of people that have been in that campaign and out of that campaign. you don't sneak around jared because, like valerie jarrett, he's always the last one. and actually, valerie jarrett is great example of actually the role that jared would play. >> i think of him more like jarrett. a personal friend of the case, a

family member, who is a sounding board who he trusts who doesn't have a clear policy brief but is sort of all-around important and a gate keeper. look, it's important often, i think, for a president to have the one person in their life who can tell them, you are wrong about this. you are messing it up. whose power doesn't rest on an appointment from the president. who is a friend, who actually stands above the power structure in the white house. i could see him being that person here. >> coming up on "morning joe," a lot of people have tried to explain the trump phenomenon. the "new york times" sent reporters across the country to do just that. the editor of the sunday magazine joins us with what their reporters found out, when "morning joe" continues.

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welcome back to "morning joe." a lot of news, willie. it looks like this is going to be a very, very busy friday over at trump tower. >> yeah, incredibly busy already. some of donald trump's appointments beginning to come into focus. nbc news now confirmed lieutenant general michael flynn has accepted the role of

national security adviser to president-elect donald trump. for cia director, nbc now reporting that congressman mike pompeo of kansas has in fact accepted that job. and nbc news also reporting that senator jeff sessions of alabama is being tapped for attorney general. you have reporting from high level sources on all this stuff. >> well, they say it's not over until it's over. it's not final until donald trump says it's final. but right now, obviously, most of the reports are saying that sessions has been asked for the job. we'll see what happens there. i think what's interesting is kasie, if you look to the hill to see -- we were talking about how rudy giuliani would be a horrific fight for confirmation. but you look at these three selecti selections. general flynn, the most controversial of the three. he doesn't have to be. doesn't have to. senate has nothing to say about that selection.

mike pompeo, very well respected in the house. chances are very good he's going to pass through fairly easily. and jeff sessions has some controversial remarks that he said in the past, but again, he's the united states senator that everybody has worked for. i would be very surprised if he, too, after getting roughed up a bit for past remarks, didn't also get accepted. >> it's a little easier when you're facing a body of your friends and colleagues from all of these years. i do think it's pretty clear that they have started to realize that the senate confirmation process is one that they are going to have to be careful about. you're seeing lindsey graham put out a statement going blow by blow through each of these appointments, which ones would work, which wouldn't. he took it as an opportunity to throw rand paul under the bus. do they end up needed some democrats to come around. the republican majority in the senate is slim, and there are a

couple people who want to throw bombs at donald trump on the republican side. >> we shall see. willie, let's bring in our next guest, who actually had reporters fan out across america into trumpland. >> imagine that. the new issue of the "new york times" magazine is titled this land is your land, with correspondents deployed across the country after donald trump's surprise victory in last week's precelection. the editor in chief jake silverstein joins us. good to see you. >> good to be here. >> what was the impetus behind here, to find out how trump won? >> a lot of magazines and media operations were scrambling to react last week to what happened on tuesday. and figure out how to take stock of what it meant and how it happened. so just like everybody else, we were trying to get out there and talk to voters and you know, take stock of where the country was at and how trump got elected. that's what we did last week. you saw on the cover there, it was famous woody guthrie song, this land is your land, that

highlighted the word his and your, which is an attempt to talk about the ways this election, i think, have revealed conflicts about who believes the country is theirs. after an election, particularly one as divided as this, there's always this question of, you know, whose voice is being heard and who feels represented and who doesn't. there's a lot of division after an election. we wanted to dive into that, talk to people from both sides and get a feel for it. >> it's fascinating. we talked about it before. if you drove west from new jersey, from the jersey state line, you're in trump country all the way until you reach oregon. >> we have seen in the maps. >> quite a geographical divide. whoops. >> south around illinois. >> got to dip down. >> the rest of illinois is red. >> swing south and then north. >> as i was saying, if you were going in a north-western pattern from charlotte. >> if you cut through central illinois, you're okay. >> anyway, a lot of red states

in between jersey and oregon. >> so one of the dispatches came from pennsylvania, emily went there to look at why so many college-educated white women voted for trump. she writes, my life wouldn't change either way, talking to a woman named palma about the material difference between a clinton and trump presidency. she said i don't think my taxes will be better or worse. but she felt confident her children would find better jobs after college with trump in office. she talked about the promise to restore jobs like ones she remembers a friend of her fat r father's had wurnging in an auto factory in detroit. if we could have export agreements with france or germany or let's face it, russia, they would take our quality goods and we could be great again. she said, echoing the campaign slogan of donald trump. >> a powerful slogan. from a marketing standpoint, it worked quite well. what emily found in pennsylvania and what obviously some of our other reporters in other states found as well is similar.

i think, you know, we talked a lot last week after the results came in about the surprise that, for instance, so many white women had voted for donald trump. there was the expectation they would vote for hillary. we talked about what the election meant in terms of race, racism, racial anxiety in the country. particularly because you had a lot of white voters who voted for obama in '08 and '12 now voting for trump, and people wondered what did that mean. what a lot of our reporters, not only emily, bit nicole in iowa, is that those voters were motivated by economic insecurity in '08. the economy was melting down. obama had a positive message about the economy. he was taking on wall street, and they were ready to cross racial lines, if wyou will, willing to put asigh any anxiety they might have had and go with obama. those lines, you know, kind of came back into focus this time

around, and the white voters who joined the coalition with obama in '08 and '12, maybe saw there wasn't as much going for them in that coalition. >> and it seems like democrats really tried to just use demographic building blocks to get over the line. >> exactly right. >> and your reporters found that some ways in florida as well. because that didn't exactly come out, the latino vote, the way democrats expected. >> jorge ramos told us in florida, there was a secret hidden trump vote. >> and this is actually in the article, it says 1 in 3 latino voters in florida cast their ballots for trump. according to a latino decision exit poll, his support among cuban americans was even higher, 54%. over the years, registered latinos told pollsters again and again, immigration is not their top concern. what they care about are jobs,

education, health care, and terrorism. in florida, the changes with cuba, changes clinton promised to uphold, may have proven to be toxic. one told me the cuban vote for trump wasn't necessarily pro-trump or an anti-clinton verdict. it may have been anti-castro. i remember actually moving florida into the trump column a few days before the election. and i was besieged by all of these people with data from florida saying, look at the hidden latino vote. look at all the people that are not registered republican or democrat. they're all going to swing for hillary. i think that's something that caught everybody by surprise. >> actually, that's a good quote that you had from the article. i think it's -- there's an even more surprising one, which was from a talk radio host in south florida who told our reporter a lot of the cultural changes of the past 15 years had been tough to swallow for conservative latino voters and trump represents a return, this is a

quote, to the mother's womb. make of that what you will, but that was an interesting and revealing quote. >> florida may or may not be a slightly different case when it comes to the hispanic vote because of the cubans living there. if we extrapolated nationally, it seems like 1 in 3 hispanics who voted voting republican in this election. what does that mean for the democratic white house majority in the long term? because we have all assumed that the democratic shifts in america, the shift toward a higher percentage of hispanic voters meant the white house would be in democratic hands for long time. if -- latinos don't turn out and vote, which they didn't this time, and if they do vote, a third vote republican, does that upend all of our calculations about whether the republicans are going to have a hold on the white house in the long run. >> the demographic building blocks is an important one, too. obviously, the answer to the question has to do with how the democrats regroup after this

defeat. a pretty stunning defeat. >> you think of hispanics who didn't vote in this election when they had a vested interest, will they vote in future elections? >> we talk about the coalition trump built. we talk about racism, sexism, and it's not the case that all 59 million or so voters who voted for trump are racist or sexist. it's a coalition of people who feel a lot of different things. a lot of it has to do with economic anxiety and insecurity. now that the cabinet is starting to come into view, now that we're starting to understand what the views of the people that he's putting into power are, and some of the debates that we're sure to have over confirmation hearings, how will that affect that coalition? trump feels he has a mandate to do what he wants based on the fact that he won. which he's right about. but the fact that he won has to do with all these voter supporting him. how will that hold together over the next six months and four years is what i'm curious about. >> a great issue. i hope this is a mandate going

forward, the way we'll cover the country and not just a one-off, not just for you but for all of the press. jake silverstein, thank you very much. >> thank you for being here. >> still ahead, potential bad news for people traveling through chicago's o'hare airport over thanksgiving next week. a lot to cover in business before the bell just ahead on "morning joe." althy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. is depressio♪ more than sadness? it's a tangle of multiple symptoms. ♪ ♪

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this is unreal. this is unbelievable. some of you know, i grew up in rural alabama.

very, very poor. very few books in our home. and i remember in 1956, when i was 16 years old, some of my brothers and sisters and cousins going down to the public library, trying to get a library card. we were told that libraries were whites only and not for coloreds. and to come here and receive this award, this honor with these -- it's too much. thank you. >> what a great moment, and what a great man. john lewis is. congressman john lewis accepting the national book award for his graphic novel. just a great, great man. let's bring in right now dominic chu with business before the bell. and dominic, janet yellen making a lot of news yesterday about the interest rates and also about donald trump's infrastructure plans. what can you tell us? >> she's spoke before the joint economic committee in congress. one of the things she spoke

about was the idea that a trillion dollar spent on infrastructure might seem really good, but it comes with cautionary notes, right? she wanted to emphasize the fact if you spend a trillion dollars on infrastructure, you have to keep an eye on what that does to the overall national debt. while the tax-based spending stimulus could be good in crisis situation, we're not near that. you might want to keep some of that ammunition in play in case another crisis comes down the line. not necessarily downplaying the whole thing, but saying you might want to watch the national dent. that's a key point there. also want to talk about what's happening for thanksgiving. if you're traveling, especially through o'hare, keep an eye on what's going to happen with the strike, workers that could include baggage handlers, wheelchair attendants, all those folks could be going on strike. while o'hare says 2,000 employee may be effected, they don't expect the airport to shut down, but you could be poised for

travel delays along the lines. and one last story, kind of hits on the job things, doesn't as well. it's about mcdonald's. they're unveiling a new concept where customers can go to digital kiosks, order their food and sit down at a table and get that food served to them. the thinking there is if you're sitting down for food, you might be ready to wait a little longer for that. so the question becomes whether or not that changes the jobs picture. they have kind of gone out of their way in saying it only redeployed jobs. it doesn't necessarily cut them. there will be more customer facing instead. >> thank you so much. greatly appreciated. katty, on the o'hare story, i think you have to make different plans. you're not able to go to peoria for thanksgiving like you usually do. >> i was desperate -- never go through chicago from basically december to march. go through florida or the south of texas. >> whatever. whatever it takes. >> avoid it. >> you know, road warrior. >> i would never fly through

ohire voluntarily. the food is good. that's the only redeeming quality. otherwise. >> i have seen msnbc posts. you have your own private jet. >> there's that, yeah. >> so coming up next, it's perhaps the most famous piece of film in american history. the zapruder tapes. we have the granddaughter of the man who filmed kennedy's assassination. she has never before heard stories behind the 26 seconds that definaled history. keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ i want a hippopotamus for christmas ♪ ♪ only a hippopotamus will do at the united states postal service, we deliver more online purchases to homes than anyone else in the country.

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53 years ago next week, an amateur filmmaker captured what would become the most recognizable recording of the 20th century. in 1963, abraham zapruder was in dallas to film the passing motorcade of president john f. kennedy. his camera was rolling when the nation's 35th president was shu struck down by an assassin's bullet. that's the theme of a new book. it's author is the filmmaker's granddaughter, alexandra, who joins us on the set. thanks for coming in. >> thanks for having me. >> amazing thing to have in your family. why was your grandfather down in

dallas? what had taken him there? just to film this? >> he was a dress maker and he had a manufacturing company that was just off daily plaza. part of it was proximity, but he loves president kennedy. our whole family loved president kennedy and he was a very avid home moviemaker. he had been taking home movies since the 1930s. i think it was the combination of things that made him end up in that place in time. >> after, though he was a passionate moviemaker, after this, i understand, he never did it again. >> he did it very little. we were actually told that he never did it again, and then i kind of came upon a few home movies that clearly that he made in the late '60s, but i think it was something that was forever associated with pain for him. and he really suffered emotionally the aftermath of the trauma of having winced this. it's very sad because he had loved making movies so much, and it was really never the same for him. >> l how did the cia and fbi react?

did he go volunteer? did he say, hey, i have this film? >> he was on dealey plaza, and he was hysterical, crying and screaming, they have killed him, they killed him. he was approached by harry mccormick, a reporter for the dallas morning news who asked him what he had. he said he wanted to find the federal authorities. he didn't want to give it to anybody but the federal authorities. it was harry mccormick who got ahold of the secret service in dallas. that began the process of getting the film developed. by the end of the day, two copies of the film were in the hands of the secret service, but my grandfather still had the original and one of the duplicated. >> did he get caught up in the investigation? was he interviewed and deposed. >> he was. he was interviewed for the warren commission, for sure. it's interesting because i didn't know this until i did the research for the book. it was one of the many things that emerged in the research that was a surprise to me. he was quite educated about the conspiracy, various theories and

about where the shots were fired from. he went back to dealey plaza and stood on the parapet again and tried to think about whether he had heard the shots coming from behind him or which direction. i think he was on some level had his own questions about what happened. >> what conclusion did he come to? >> he certainly believed the warren commission. part of the reason he believed the warren commission is he was a russian immigrant who came to this country in 1920 as a 15-year-old boy. he was a devout patriot. and he was 58 years old. he wasn't someone who would have ever thought that the american government could be complicit or there could be even a cover-up. that was what happened in russia where he was from. that's not what happened in america. that's why he came here. it would have been completely out of character, i think, for him to question those results. and he died in 1970. so it isn't as if he lived to see watergate and all of the things that followed. >> right. all right. well, the book is "twenty-six

seconds." looks fantastic. that does it for us this morning on "morning joe." we have a lot of fast-ba paced developments going on in donald trump's transition. a lot of appointments that are going down today, and for that, stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. stephanie. >> thanks so much. have a great weekend. good morning, i'm stephanie ruhle. we have breaking news indeed this morning. donald trump filling three key posts. senator jeff sessions for attorney general, congressman mike pompeo for cia, and lieutenant general michael flynn has assessmented national security adviser. but these picks are controversial. sessions has been accused of racial insensitivity in his past. and flynn for his relationship with russia and comments on islam. >> there is a disease inside of this islamic body. it's like cancer. >> the phony and the choker. in a bizarre twist, trump now