good morning, and welcome to "am joy" coming to you today live from across the pond in beautiful london, england. back home in the states, the golden revolving doors at trump tower have been spinning all week with potential cabinet picks and tomorrow appointments arriving to be appraised by donald trump. on sunday he dropped the first

two names, the men who will be at the helm of trump's white house as his closest advisers. republican national committee chair reince priebus whose title would be white house chief of staff. and steven bannon who will be trump's strategist. this was followed by allies rushing to defend him as a, quote, force for good, a navy veteran and a person who has, quote, embraced adversity. instead of the position for which he is more commonly known, the man who headed an online platform that bannon himself proclaimed was the platform for the alt-right. as the "new york times" reported this week, it's that steve bannon who critics feared would be a voice of racism in the trump white house. in the latest picks to come down from on high from trump's gilded perch have done little to allay those concerns. on friday he tapped alabama

senator jeff sessions for attorney general, retired general mike flynn for national security advisor and tom pay yoe for director of the cia. sessions in particular was already raising concerns when his name was floated earlier in the week, though the announcement was met with praise by some of his republicans colleagues in the senate. critics pointed to the history that came to light during the hearing for sessions nomination to the federal bench back in 1986. the opposition led by then senator joe biden and several civil rights groups came after session was accused in testimony of a series of racist comments and allegedly warned one african-american assistant u.s. attorney to, quote, be careful what he said to white folks, called him boy, both of which sessions denied, and according to the attorney joked that he thought the ku klux klan was okay until he found out they smoked pot. witnesses testified that sessions who will overview the civil rights division, attacked

the naacp as unamerican or communist. sessions acknowledged having made those statements but said he, quote, meant no harm by it and denied having any racial prejudice. thank you guys for being here. appreciate it. i want to start with you, leonard pitts. you wrote a column before the election say that in order for trumpism to fade away, it needed to be defeated resoundingly by the other side. well you did have hillary clinton win by resounding numbers, but trump is still going to be president. what does the jeff sessions elevation say to you, and what does it say to african-americans? >> what it says to african-americans and what it says to me are the same thing, that we're in for four very difficult, very troubling years. i think about the fact that when

the mike brown shooting happened and the obama justice department cleared that police officer, i remember feeling that, okay, this is a verdict, even though it was -- i didn't like it, it's a verdict that i can have some credibility with because i believe that that justice department took seriously the concerns of people like me. i do not and will not have that same sort of confidence in a similar situation under mr. sessions. >> and judith, your organization, the advancement project, has done a lot of fighting on the issue of voting rights and access to the ballot. arie berman said there was widespread voter suppression that went unanswered and we haven't dealt with or quantified the magnitude of its influence, but if you look at the new republican back in 2002 and it talked about one of other of jeff sessions' historical precedence and that is his prosecution of civil rights workers who were trying to register voters in alabama.

here's an excerpt from that article. sessions focused on these counties to the exclusion of others, caused an uproar among civil rights leaders, produced only 14 allegedly tampered ballots out of 1.7 million cast in the state in the 1984 election. are you concerned that with jeff sessions running the civil rights division of the justice department there's more likely to be attacks on protection of people's right to vote? >> sure, joy. he's ill suited to be the attorney general and to be the person who's in charge of enforcing our civil rights law. this is a person who called not only the naacp unamerican but the southern christian leadership conference which was started by martin luther king jr.. this is a person who has said the voting rights act is intrusive. this is a person who went after

people who were registering african-americans to vote and went after them because actually turnout went up in that place in alabama. the voters of alabama might have thought that he was good for them, but he is not good for america. he will turn the clock back. we're talking about a justice department that is supposed to be on the side of americans. they are the top enforcer of our federal civil rights laws. he is not the person who is going to protect us from what happens at the state level. he will turn the clock back not only on what the attorney general holder and lynch has done but think about cutsenbeck. think about robert kennedy and the history of that division will be gutted under his leadership. we're talking about jefferson bow reguard sessions, a southerner who is proud of his heritage, who is fine with talking -- calling african-americans boy. we don't need him at the department of justice.

>> and ben, you know, the shelby decision which actually arose out of a case in alabama, interestingly enough, it really shook the country in terms of african-americans really worrying that the supreme court was no longer a guarantor of the right to vote. you have some members of the supreme court including clarence thomas who want to see the whole thing go away. jeff sessions did vote to reauthorize the voting rights act of 2006 but after the shelby act came through he praised the decision. he was really for it. ben, republicans have fought for a long time against the caricature of the party. there's been pushback that in some cases was valid that people have reacted to almost anything republicans say by characterizing it as potential racist. what does it do to the republican party to now be associated not just with stephen

bannon but with jeff sessions as the face of the justice department, in your view? >> there's a serious problem with getting republicans or conservatives to recognize what's in their midst. i think part of that is what you're hitting on here which is they've almost become immune to being called racist. it's one of the things that gets people the most upset is being called racist, especially folks who maybe don't know the details of what you're talking about with sessions or who steve bannon is. one of the reasons bannon is so dangerous is he knows exactly how to use that sort of white grief i guess you would call it about being called a racist in order to deflect any criticism. so when there's a valid criticism law at the alt-right and people say this is associated with white nationalist movements, the general reaction is oh, you're just using talking points, everybody is racist and so on. i think there has to be an elevated conversation to get people to understand the difference between somebody who is unaware or unwilling to see

the elements in their midst and people that are actually racist in order to get anyone to understand that these criticisms are real. >> before i bring arthur hami hamilton in, i want to talk about that. breitbart was to defang this charge of racism and put it all in the wash so that no charge of racism would be effective because people would say you're just using liberal talking points and just not believing any of it. have we reached the point where people thought the obama election was post racial, some people might think the election is post racism? >> i think we reached that point a long time ago. i think the trump election is just the mayor chino cherry on top of it. people have absolved themselves of charges of racism, they' country and the party of racism

for years. part of this dates to or attributes to us as african-americans i think that there has been a hair trigger with regard to charges of racism in the news. i think of the gentleman in the washington d.c. mayor's office who used the word niggardly which means sticker and has no association to the racial slur and two weeks of uproar over that which was a waste of political capital. with that said, there are people who would not admit to racism until there's a cross burning and even then they would make excuses for it and now many of those people are in power and in our government. >> i'm already seeing social media media people writing off the klan rally in north carolina as immaterial and charges of racial insensitivity didn't sway

voters against trump. i want to bring malcolm into this. it's known that the putin government has stoked these right wing movements around the west, around europe, that all have this racial basis. they're all based on nonwhite immigration and muslim immigration and fears of it. jeff sessions tweeted this morning that he once called for a constitutional amendment to stop granting automatic citizenship to people born in the united states if their parents were not born in the united states. there are a lot of europeans who have children here. what do you make of that and can you put it in a broadest cont t context, particularly as it relates to the impact on muslims and other people of color? >> i certainly can. if you take a look at this, what we're seeing here is sort of an americanization of very dark,

dark situation which occurred in norway a few years ago where a white nationalist -- and i hate the phrase white nationalist. the technical sprays is white supremacist. anders bettering brevick mass murdered over 80 young liberal children and exploded a car bomb in the center of their capital in order to bring about a rise in the belief that whites in the west, in their entirety, were being overtaken by this muslim hoard, and the people that he cited as his mentors, robert spencer, the american white nationalist, white supremacist, pamela geller, and even frank gaffney who has been brought on as an advisor to the trump campaign. what we're seeing is an alignment where people believe that they have to align the united states and russia as an axis of christiandom against islam in a clash of

civilizations that osama bin laden dreamed about. to think that i would actually see this occur in the united states a few years after that mass murder in norway tells me that there is a dangerous, dangerous undercurrent which is being fueled by russia, which is priming and paying nationalist groups, which will damage this country irreparably. >> to that point, we have a risk that if we're doing a muslim registry -- mother jones has called jeff sessions the most powerful immigration foe in the country and you have an alignment between people like robert spencer who by the way coined the phrase alt-right. the phrase came from him and people like nigel ferrage. people bike boris johnson with racially provocative views, what does that do to t security of

americans if we're stoking that kind of fear among immigrant groups? >> it's a great question, joy. again, i go back to trump as a candidate. we never really got what his policies were. so we're all very much in the dark as to where he's going to go with this. we have the campaign, the rhetoric, and we're all very concerned that that will actually translate to policy, internationally as well. what we can look at is the people that he's choosing to be on his cabinet. before i got on the show i was talking to a friend who reminded me that leon panetta was the head of the cia and he had no intelligence experience. but if you look at pompeo and flynn, these are people that -- general flynn, as far as i can tell wasn't someone who was making senior policy, wasn't advising the president directly. to go from his previous post to national security advisor as well as pompeo, someone who has no intelligence experience, you got to look at this and say, all right, so they're relatively

inexperienced or don't have direct experience in this field, we can sort of let that slide but then you start looking at jeff sessions, no one has ever said jeff sessions is this monster legal scholar. frankly, to have someone in the president's inner circle that come with this baggage and specifically general flynn, what he said about muslims and islam, this is someone who's going to have to be dealing with our islamic partners. it's going to make things, i would say at a minimum, unnecessarily difficult. i mean, we're going to have to deal with countries like turkey and malaysia. it's just not a good place to start. >> absolutely. and you have perfectly set up our next block. you'll be back in our next black. i want to thank leonard pitts and ben howell for being here. we will do a little background check on trump's picks for his national security team. this is "am joy" live from london.

this is a political ideology based on islam. >> radical islam metastasizing throughout the world. >> one of the most devastating terrorist attacks on america in 20 years come overwhelmingly from a single faith and are performed in the name of that faith, a special obligation falls on those that are the leaders of that faith. instead of responding, silence has made these islamic leaders across america potentially complicit in these acts. >> the comments you just heard come from two of the people picked to lead trump's national security team. kansas congressman mike pompeo who's been tapped to lead the cia has a harsh critic of hillary clinton's in libya,

calling the benghazi investigation worse than watergate. pompeo is also a backer of increased government surveillance but some of his supporters have praised his work ethic and knowledge about policy. and then there's lieutenant general michael flynn, trump's choice for national security advisor. a controversial pick for his cozy relationship with vladimir putin's russia and comments on is sllam and muslim americans. he has his supporters, like this glowing portrayal in the new york observers which happens to be owned by trump's son-in-law. jared kushner. thank you all for joining me. daniel, i want to talk first about michael flynn. let's start with michael flynn. he is one of the people who's been around donald trump the most, he's been sitting in on

his national security briefings. he's also a person who tweeted the following back in february of this year. he tweeted, fear of muslims is rational. please forward this to others. the truth fears no questions. he has said very similar things which are recorded in video. there are a danger to american national security if you have an nsa advisor whose attitude towards islam itself as a religion is that negative? >> it doesn't send a message to the world that does not support terrorism and that's the population you're going to need if you're going to wage an effective war on radical islamic terrorists. there's no denying that a lot of flynn's tweets and media appearances demonstrates that he really lacks the temperament you would want in a national security advisor, someone who's supposed to assess the information that is given to him

by various departments and then wisely advise the president. >> in addition to that, daniel, you've had elliott cohen who was a never trumper who then said that people who have national security experience should work with the administration if they can and who then met with them and said, oh, no, stay away, don't go near it. they're basically blood letting. it's sort of a den of the alt-right. then you have this idea of general flynn retweeting people like mike certain avich which is a member of the alt-right and retweeted something that went after jewish people, that is clearly anti-semitic. these are things you can't get away from. would national security professionals be better served to go in and try to moderate the administration knowing flynn is there or are they wise to stay away? >> this is one of the most difficult questions that national security professionals

have had to grapple with and to some extent it's a function of whether you actually trust t principal you're going to be serving for, in this case whether you trust michael flynn. no one i know who has dealt with michael flynn in the last few years demonstrates that much faith in his ability to be a national policy maker. so, no, i would not advise my colleagues to work for flynn. it's possible that if president-elect trump appoints someone as secretary of state or defense that's someone you can work with, those might be the better agencies. but in this case i can't recommend anyone working for flynn at this point. >> e.j., that sets up the possibility of infighting within the administration which sometimes can be healthy, right, if there's healthy tension between them, but on the issue of russia we could be in for

some really weird times. general flynn was sitting in on national security briefings with donald trump while he was advising foreign clients. he had business interests overseas at the same time he was getting national security information sitting next to donald trump and who the "washington post" published this photo of him and jill stein i should add, sitting at a table at a celebration of r.t. which is the russian funded media outlet praising vladimir putin and he's very pro putin in his leanings. what could we be in for when we're talking about n.a.t.o. in the balance, when power allies are wondering about our posture towards russia. do you have concerns about a national security advisoadvisor? >> i think it's really petrifying if you listen to all the folks who were so worked up about hillary clinton's speeches and then you have michael flynn who will be our national security advisor who was paid to

speak at this putin network dinner. you have flynn close to putin. you have flynn close to erdogan. he has been working for the turkish government, president erdogan of turkey. there was a story in the "new york times" two days ago about his attack on the free press. and you asked a question, should people who have differences with these guys like flynn or pompeo go into the administration. i guess my hope is that some strong people do go in to see if they have the power to counter some of this because i think flynn is a really scary figure and there is his view of islam as well which is very disturbing. >> yeah. malcolm, you can touch on both of those two things. first of all, flynn's view of islam which is open and on the record, very hostile to the religion, not just isis but to the religion itself and what that means. his ties to russia and then his counterpart will be in the cia, mike pompeo who open secrets

reports is the number one all-time recipient of koch industries money, had some difficulties, his own colleagues questioned whether he could make it in a senate run. this new national security apparatus, does it worry you, malcolm, and if so, why? >> it should worry everyone. this group that we have in there are going to be the end of u.s./middle east relations as it exists today. in the first days they floated this trial balloon of moving the embassy from tel aviv. they've tried to nullify saudi arabia by saying they're going after iran which would create an entirely new disaster on our hands. these people are aligning themselves for a war with islam. virtually everyone in that group believes they are in a clash of civil zagization

civilizations, not with al qaeda or iran. they wrote that iran, al qaeda, isis, were all this axis of evil that the united states had to stand up to. so stay and do your job. for people who want to go out there and actually participate in an activity, a group of people that believe that they are going to fight the muslim world at some point, we could be in for an extremely rough ride. >> you know, navid, i want to play a clip of a guy named carl higby who's a member of trump world who went on megyn kelly's show on fox to talk about what might be the most frightening and alarming thing we've heard so far and that is a comparison in what they want to do regarding muslims either living in or visiting the united states and the internment of the japanese. let's listen to that.

>> we've done it with iran back a while ago. we did it during world war ii with the japanese which call it what you will -- >> come on. you're not proposing we go back to the days of internment camps, i hope? >> no, no. >> you know better than to suggest that. that's the kind of stuff that gets people scared, carl. >> right. i'm saying there's precedent for it. i'm not saying i agree with it but i -- >> you can't be citing japanese internment camps for anything the president-elect is going to do. >> the president needs to protect america first. >> navid, let me correct, we're not talking about the internment of japanese but internment of americans of japanese ancestry during world war ii which fdr to his great shame did to american citizens, our own fellow citizens. the idea that you have people in trump world openly discussing the idea of using the precedent of the internment of americans, putting them on train cars and

sending them off to internment camps as a precedent for the way this administration thinks it ought to deal with americans who are muslim, your thoughts on what that could do both to the safety of americans and also to the fabric of american society. >> look joy, i'm an american. the thing that i have faith in this country is our institutions. you know, never have i seen, frankly, sessions, flynn, pompeo, these are at best mediocre people in their career track. then when you start adding the backage they come with, i have never seen gs 14 positions that are considerably lower, someone with that backaggage would neve get tapped for that job. it's surprising to see people that have no strong experience in these roles are getting tapped and coming with all this ba baggage. then again we have a president who's settling a $25 million

lawsuit. >> before i let you go, quickly, will there be issues of somebody like general flynn with all these business interests overseas or rudy giuliani who has all this money overseas, if he ends up becoming part of the administration passing security for that? >> i would imagine he's going to have to disclose them and it's going to be up to the security folks to determine if that's a conflict of interest. i would have to say yes but time will tell. it's a brave new world, joy. >> and now we have to put our faith in institutions like the fbi which also participated in the election of donald trump. it is really a scary time for a lot of americans. thank you very much. coming up, the trump kids in the meetings. is the presidency about to become a family business?

the meetings. >>announcer: valhalla awaits...

the great north calls out for heroes. train your army and lay waste to your rivals! play vikings-war of clans-for free! today i met mr. donald trump, president-elect of the

united states, and despite his extremely busy schedule because of his decision to be made, vis-a-vis, appointees or other related business, he was kind enough to receive me. and we spent a substantial amount of time together for our very candid discussion. and as a matter of fact, the atmosphere of the meeting was really, really cordial. >> this week donald trump had his first in-person meeting with a foreign head of state since the election. what topics were discussed between trump and the japanese prime minister? we really don't know because trump world did not give the press access to the thursday meeting at trump tower, and no summary was provided though it is customary for both leaders to hold a press avail, only the prime minister spoke to reporters. trump's daughter and son-in-la , were both present because team

trump released its own pictures of the meeting which we here at "am joy" decided not to air. if and when the trump team allows the press to take its own pictures, we will happily use those on this show. my guests will weigh in on that after the break. picking up for kyle.

here you go. you wouldn't put up with part of a pizza. um.

something wrong? so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? you want the whole thing? yes, yes! live whole. not part. aleve. and we're back talking about the potential influence of donald trump's children in his administration. joining me now, paul waldman of the american prospect and kirk iken wald. donald trump tweeted on wednesday, i'm not trying to get top level security clearance for my children, that was a typically false news story. what do we know about attempts to get security clearance for the trump children and for jared kushner, his son-in-law? >> i'm sorry, you're asking me? >> yeah. >> we've heard these reports that somebody in the trump transition team asked about getting security clearances for the children. then the transition team said

that it wasn't trump himself but we still don't know. we've already seen that when trump had a meeting with the prime minister of japan, ivanka trump was in that meeting. the real problem here, as we know, is that trump is going to be turning over his business to his children and they are going to be going around the world doing deals in which it's very possible that not only foreign interests but even foreign governments could directly be putting money into donald trump's bank account. you have to understand that the way that trump makes most of his money these days is with brand licensing. he doesn't really do a lot of building these days. he'll go someplace and say to a developer in some foreign country, you're putting up a hotel or a resort and if you put the trump name on it i'll let you do that and then you'll pay me a couple of million dollars a year for the privilege of using that name. and that is a business that is absolutely just ripe for people who want to exercise influence with the united states government and shape the united

states government policy putting money into donald trump's bank account. they could say, okay, we'll give you this licensing deal, ivanka, or eric, or donnie, and we'll pay you twice what you thought you were going to get and then when it comes time for the united states to make policy related to that government, is that going to affect the decisions that are made? i think it's becoming more and more clear that trump is going to be using the presidency as an opportunity to make millions and millions and maybe even billions of dollars. i don't think there's been a case before where somebody has had this kind of opportunity to get so rich and so much richer through the use of the presidency. >> kurt, donald trump did say if he ever ran for president he would be the first president to make money doing the job. he sort of made a big show saying he won't take a salary but you've had the "wall street journal" to call on donald trump to liquidate his businesses

because of the potential -- and you've written about this -- that there can't be a blind trust when your children who stand to inherit your money and make money off your surname from running the business and are sitting in with meetings on foreign dignitaries. your thoughts, kurt? >> you and i were talking about this months ago. it kind of upsets me that the rest of the press is finally getting around to it. the thoughts are exactly what we were saying back then. this is an irreparable conflict of interest. this isn't a family that isn't going to pick a lane. are they going to be in government, are they going to run a business. there is absolutely no blind trust. if the president of the united states travels to moscow and sees trump hotel standing in the middle of the town, what's the blind trust? he knows exactly what happened. this family -- it's absolutely true. the only way to avoid a conflict

of interest where the financial interests of the president of the united states and his family are not playing a role in national security is through the liquidation of the trump organization. it's simply not going to happen. so we are in for four years of what's driving american foreign policy, what goes into donald trump's pocket, what benefits his family, are they going to be in on other meetings, do they get to play the role of business people and then on the way out the door say to the prime minister of japan, oh, we're dealing with one of your friends on a hotel deal. it is one of the most appalling things i have ever seen in government. >> paul rngs there are dictatorships around the world where the leader of the country and his family essentially milk the country and use the presidency to enrich their own family. we haven't had an example of that in the united states. i want to look at an example that seems small but then in a sense kind of makes the point.

ivanka trump did her rnc speech and then immediately tweeted out. here's the look, you can buy what i had on. okay, that's just one thing. but then you had the "60 minutes" interview where she had her staff send out a style alert to the media so that the regular mainstream press could promote the bracelet she had on so the american people could buy. fast forward to the meeting with the prime minister of japan, they served trump water at the meeting, according to the reports of that meeting, at least what we could get since they give you the pictures they want to give you rather than letting the press in to actually do their job. it does feel like -- a lot of americans say they want the government to be run like a business. i'm not sure this is what people had in mind, paul? >> this is the kind of thing we normally associate with a post soviet, third world dictatorship. the stuff that we know about may

be the least problematic. it's the stuff we don't know about that we have to worry about. trump was the first presidential candidate in 40 years not to show us his tax returns. he claimed he didn't want to do it since he was being audited. i'm promise you donald trump is never, never going to show us his tax returns because if he did they would make clear the incredibly intricate and complicated web of companies and interests that he has around the world. because we're not going to see them, we won't know what's happening. what happens when ivanka and eric go to some foreign country to do some kind of consulting deal with a developer or with a government that doesn't get reported on, that we never know about it, and who knows how many millions of dollars those foreign governments might be putting directly into donald trump's bank account. it's the stuff that we're not going to hear about because we haven't seen those tax returns, we don't know who he has business relationships with. that's the stuff we really need to be worried about. >> he'll appoint the head of the irs, so there you go.

paul waldman, thank you very much. kurt is going to come back in our next hour. coming up in our next hour, is donald trump the new apprentice? more "am joy" after the break. ♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. side effects may include diarrhea,

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tomorrow is going to be a very historic day. i really believe that. i think it's going to be brexit plus, plus, plus. does that make sense? plus, plus, plus. >> donald trump often compared his campaign to brexit, the

british referendum on withdrawing from the european union. earlier this week i took to the streets here in london to talk a little brexit and trump. take a look. i am here in london in front of the houses of parliament and there's a double decker bus. it's so londony. which is worse, brexit or trump? >> trump. >> trump. >> trump definitely. >> i think both, very difficult. i think brexit is more worse. >> why? >> because it's, um, one big community, europe, and then a very important country, england is leaving. so i think that's for the economics. >> neither are great. i think donald trump has potentially worse implications. >> why? >> because brexit sort of stays within our house. like it may have some implications within europe but i

think the main bad effects are going to be felt here. the main bad effects of donald trump could be felt the world over. i think that's why i would probably take ten brexits. >> does brexit change the waylon done feels to you? >> absolutely. it feels more divisive. most of london voted to remain. living in london you do feel a bit in an isolated bubble, but it does change the atmosphere because you start thinking, well, do they not appreciate the diversity, do they not appreciate or noneuropeans living here. are we going to be getting chucked out. >> in britain there's obviously been concerns about terrorism, et cetera. a lot of worries in the u.s. about this idea of a muslim ban. it's one of the reasons for a lot of the protests is that kind of a proposal. what do you make of that? >> i mean, for a country, its

whole ethose is predicated on immigration. it's hard to say we're just going to ban somebody from a certain ethnic group or religious group. >> as you go around london, i don't know how long you've been in town, do you find people sort of asking what happened? >> yes, actually, when we checked into the hotel, three people at the counter said, what's going on over there? what's going on? >> is britain literally feeling better about itself now that we have done trump, even though you guys did brexit? >> i think a little better. >> just be real. okay. >> joining me is nbc news correspondent keir simmons. it's great to see you in person. >> good to be here with you and to have you with us. >> thank you very much. i've had a great time in london so far. i want to start where we ended with that last person. it was fascinating talking to people on the streets of london, both britains and non. how has the trump election being received here in england.

>> trump has just happened and brexit is a few months ago. one guy described it as a little local difficulty for britain. that's not right. brexit is part of a major crises for europe. it threatens the future of the european union. there are elections in germany and france and people are very worried about what will happen there. but people are stunned by trump, and there is panic in the capitals of europe and around the world. there is panic in the embassies of d.c. because -- and i know there are folks watching who are going to like hearing this, but diplomats live in a cozy world where they can tell their leaders what's going to happen next and they have the right contacts. if you think of the world as a jigsaw, all the pieces just got thrown up in the air. >> what are the fears people have pragmatically? what do they think could go wrong with this combination of a brexit in britain and now an american president who doesn't

really seem to be for n.a.t.o.? >> there are two questions there in a sense. there's the question of the public, ordinary folks, and then the question of leaders and diplomats and that kind of thing. what's interesting about brexit and trump is that they are both connected to white working class voters who don't live in major cities. the reason for both of those votes goes back largely to those constituencies. people are talking about it as part of a nationalism that's sweeping the world, that you're seeing in other countries too, you're seeing in russia for example. so there is that. in terms of the diplomacy, there are real challenges for diplomats on two levels. one is what do they do, particularly western diplomats. what do they do about the kinds of policies that a president trump might enact domestically for example if a trump presidency does bring in a muslim register. what do western leaders say about that, particularly in europe where that kind of thing

resonates of course. >> absolutely. >> so there's that issue and then international issues. what happens if trump decides to move the u.s. embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem. >> we talked about that earlier. that could have immediate and scary implications. i wish we had more time. we'll keep you here forever. keir simmons, thank you for being here. >> thank you. still to come, donald trump as the aparenthesis dis. will president obama show him how to do his job? more "am joy" live from london when we come back. [

>> he now has to transition to government and what i said to him was that what may work in

generating enthusiasm or passion during elections may be different than what will work in terms of unifying the country and gaining the trust even of those who didn't support him. that has to reflect itself not only in the things he says but also how he fills out his administration. and my hope is that that's something that he is thinking about. >> welcome back to "am joy". donald trump may be going from reality star to reality star-in-chief but it turns out that there is a brand new apprentice and it's donald trump. that looks on trump's face during his white house meeting with president obama was the expression of a man who, according to the "wall street journal's" reporting seemed surprised by the scope of the president's duties.

also it was reported that sources during the meeting say aides had to be replaced at the end of mr. obama's term. obama's officials privately noted the extent to which trump and his staff seemed unprepared to discuss basic aspects of the trump administration and daunted by the challenges ahead. it seems that president obama is taking it upon himself to do what he can to fill in the gaps. the president walked away realizing that trump needs more guidance and is taking on trump as his own presidential apprentice, planning to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do. thank you all for being here. i want to start with you, e.j.,

my friend, on president obama and his relentless home, president obama now apparently taking on donald trump as in a sense his presidential apprentice. i want to put in one more sound bite. this is president obama in germany talking about his specific hopes for trump and russia. take a listen. >> my hope is that he does not simply take a real politic approach and suggest that if we just cut some deals with russia, even if it hurts people or even if it violates international norms or even if it leaves smaller countries juvulnerable creates long-term problems in regions like syria that we just do whatever is convenient at the time. >> e.j., have you seen anything so far, having watched donald trump run for president for more than a year, that he will take an approach that is more subtle

and that he can be sort of schooled by president obama, a man whose birth certificate he was questioning just a few months ago, that he'll take cues from him on how to be president? >> i think the short answer is no, but i do want to thank you for allowing us to indulge the fantasy that at the end of this show president obama will be able to say you're fired and donald trump will disappear from the stage, but that's not going to happen. the evidence so far is the opposite. just this morning donald trump tweeted that people of the "hamilton" cast who spoke to mike pence who was seeing the show last night shouldn't have done what they did. you don't need a president saying that. is he saying to us that we can't exercise our free speech? this is a guy who didn't respect president obama who suddenly says his opponents can't speak out. there's a lot here that's very distressing. as you suggested in the leadup here, the trump operation, a, did not seem to think he was going to win, so there was no

real preparation. and b, they seem utterly unprepared for what they're about to confront. who knows how many people they'll even have in the white house on the first day given so far how the transition has proceeded. >> yeah, i was watching a bbc show here where the host was joking that both hillary clinton and afterwards wrote dear advice column letters and the answers to both were, no, we cannot run the election over again. i want to go to sarah on this because what we do know about the plans of the incoming administration comes from kellyanne conway who has said the following about the donald trump campaign in waiting or campaign extended. their plan for a victory tour. take a listen. >> we're working on a victory tour now that will happen -- what, kellyanne? in the next couple of weeks. >> the thank you tour. it's not a victory tour.

>> a thank you tour. >> thank america tour. >> in the next couple of weeks, after thanksgiving. >> give us any clues about where you'll be going? >> no clue yet. still working on it. obviously to the states that we won and sweep states that we flipped over. >> so, sarah, you have a -- i keep calling it a campaign because it feels still like a campaign -- that is planning to go to the states they won and do a victory tour, but doesn't seem to grasp the scope of staffing the white house. what are your biggest concerns for an incoming trump administration? >> well, one of the big problems is that we haven't gotten a lot of specifics. when he's been asked about plans, he often says, we're going to repeal obamacare and replace it with something awesome. we're going to have the best plan. we're going to build a wall. it's going to be great. it's going to be the best wall you ever saw. there's a lot of very complex problems. people that have actually studied our border with mexico

know that the terrain is very different in different parts. some parts you would want a wall. some parts you would want different types of technology. some parts are so rugged that there would be no way to really build a wall and there would be no point because nobody is climbing over that particular part. he's had a lot of really good talking points and sound bites but when you actually have to govern and you actually have to put policy in action, you need more specifics. and what we've gotten from specifics has been a little concerning. the advisors around him who continue to push the idea of a muslim registry, we already keep track of people who are applying for visas and coming into this country, so saying that we're going to separate out people just based on religion has a lot of first amendment grounds. and the fact that it was justified by pointing to japanese internment camps during world war ii, that's not an

example of america at its greatest. that's not something i'd point to and say, yeah, let's do that again. so we're going to need a lot more specifics from the trump administration, and i hope that he gets some good people around him that remember the constitution. >> on that point, katherine, because there is this sort of balance need. if you are donald trump and you've run a campaign saying only i can fix it and sort of overstating what you would be able to deliver to the people who were chanting build a wall at your rallies, and who part of why they voted for you was this idea that you were going to sort of cage all the scary muslims and push out all the immigrants from mexico, there's a balance between having to keep those people happy. you've got to keep them with you and happy, but also in this administration there seems to be a bit of a revenge situation taking place. we had the bbc and others reporting james clapper, the u.s. intelligence chief is resigning. there's talk that the trump administration might eliminate the job of director of national

intelligence which was formed after 9/11. you have elliott cohen who is an intelligence professional, a professional in his field saying after an exchange with the trump transition team he changed his recommendation that experienced people join the administration, saying stay away, they're angry, arrogant and screaming you lost. i want to read a little bit of what elliott cohen wrote in the "washington post". the article was titled i told conservatives to work with trump, one talk with his team changed my might. the president-elect is surrounding himself with mediocrity whose chief qualification seems to be unquestioning loyalty. by all accounts his ignorance about the executive branch is fathomless. it's not even clear that he accepted that he should live in the white house rather than in his guilt smeared penthouse in new york. this is a challenge for journalists who can no longer treat this as entertainment or curiosity. this man is president of the united states and the only things we seem to know about him

is that his team is bent on revenge and they want to have rallies i guess until the end of time. how does the white house press core need to approach this? >> i think it's very challenging. to your point about who trump surrounds himself with, it's a really tricky question because i view trump as extremely idio logically porous. highway see he absorbs the opinions of people who are sucking up to him. you want more moderate voices who are against a muslim registry, et cetera, to be surrounding him and influencing him. on the other hand, those are the people who are most driven away from his leadership style. it's a very challenging situation right now. the trump campaign has not shown interest in transparency, either in how the transition is working or what the white house will look like come january and what that means for the press is complicated. i think we need to do our best

to hold his feet to the fire. >> could i underscore something katherine said real quick? >> sure. >> if there are people of more moderate views are thinking of going in, the signal he sent right out of the box, bannon, sessions, flynn, pompeo, this is not very reassuring. maybe something like mitt romney will come in and say i'm going to keep a lid on these guys or someone else, but he has not been reassuring in the first week. >> my guess is that mitt romney's meeting may just be for show as well. >> joy -- >> if it's about loyalty, he hasn't been loyal. judith, they've already tried to take credit, trump did, for stopping ford from moving a plant to mexico that ford never planned to move to mexico. we're also dealing with a person who isn't really bound to the truth but who needs to feed his

supporters the idea that he's doing something for them. your thoughts, judith? >> we're dealing with someone who has gone from playing wiffle ball to the big league, who is nothing but a marketing genius. now, this isn't time for marketing and this isn't time for fox news type of facts which mean that there are no facts. that's what happened with that ford situation. unfortunately, he is surrounding himself with people who are anti-black, who are anti-muslim and anti-lgbt. this is what they're going to get, a guy who produces tv shows, who thinks this was a popularity contest. instead we have these horrible people who have decided to be the leaches and say, yes, we're with him because they now have the opportunity to move their racist, bigoted agenda in through our federal policies. >> lastly, sarah, as somebody

who having been on the evan mcmullin campaign is probably on one of their enemies list or their no friends list, what do you expect. he's somebody who has a great deal of experience actually, ran for the president on the basis of his experience in national security. have you seen any green shoots of outreach, for instance, to people like you and to evan mcmullin from this administration? >> i'm way too small potatoes for the white house to reach out to me. somebody like evan has a lot of really good experience, but with the rhetoric that's come out of trump this entire campaign and the people that he's surrounding himself with, that's not somebody that somebody like evan would want to be involved with. i will say though just to be fair, evan did praise the choice of mike pompeo for cia chief as did senator rubio. he has a good background in that and has gotten some good praise. the same kind of praise has not come for all of trump's picks,

and i do understand why people are concerned and i do think that he has his election night speech saying he wants to bring america together and then putting people on his team that have made a point of being divisive is problematic and sends the complete opposite message and makes him really sound like a hypocrite. >> absolutely. and tweeting demand that the cast of a broadway show apologize to mike pence but no such outrage about the people who are actually hurting people for 700 incidents of attacks around the country. >> the president to demand that, that was a bit out of line. >> thank you very much. up next, many americans have said they want the government to be run like a business. who knew it was going to be a family business? more "am joy" live from london next. ♪

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donald trump's political and business dealings are taking the white house into uncharted territory, creating the potential for trump to use his position to enrich and benefit himself and his family. the latest example is the new trump hotel in washington d.c.. the "washington post" reported that about 100 foreign diplomats gathered there this week to sip trump branded champagne, dine on sliders and hearing a sales pitch about the new hotel. whereas trump's brand seemed to be in jeopardy before the election, these days staying at a trump hotel, condo or golf course offers the chance to seek the favor of the next president of the united states. kurt, i want to start with you.

we talked a lot before the election about the crises in the trump brand, the fact that the trump hotel was basically half empty, they were cutting the rates for it in d.c., but now something has really changed. since he has won the election, the "washington post" talked about it being the place to be seen for foreign dignitaries. some attendees that attended this expo won ralph prizffle pr allowing them to become better acquainted with the president. speculation was rife that businesses would suffer at the hotels and golf courses that bear his name, now those venues offer the prospect of something else. rooms have sold out quickly for the inauguration. many for five-night minimums priced at five times the normal

rate according to the hole manager. one more thing, trump leases this hotel from the government agency in washington which he soon will be in charge of . your thoughts, kurt. >> we've set up a system of legal bribery. the thing to know about that hotel in particular is that trump has a terrible reputation for development for anything past 1985. that hotel, their finances fell through, the trump family financed it themselves. in other words, they loaned their own money for this. it was doing terribly beforehand. if it had gone down, it would have been the trump family that lost the money. now what's happening is every single one of those people, every dignitary, every corporation who stays at that hotel is paying money. every dime, a part of it is going to the trump family and to

the president of the united states. this goes to the whole idea of this whole blind trust nonsense. a dignitary comes in, sits down with the president and says, oh, i just stayed at your hotel, it was wonderful. well, trump is not an idiot. he knows those people just paid him money. and there is no blind trust, and we have a system of legal bribery and we have a congress who, because they're republicans, are not going to supervise this. >> absolutely. katherine, i think about the histrionics in the media over the clinton foundation which doesn't pay a salary to either of the clintons and the hysterics over them needing to shut it down, the hysterics of hillary clinton giving speeches overseas when she was a private senior citizen. and now we have a situation where the next president of the united states is in a lawsuit right now suing washington d.c. because he doesn't want to pay taxes.

he wants to avoid paying taxes. he's long claimed that the district has overtaxed the hotel down the street from the white house. you have foreign dignitaries moving in to pay basically as kurt just said the trump family to stay in their hotel. and these hotels are all over the world. they could pay donald trump by staying in his hotels overseas or golfing at turnberry. this is insane and unprecedented and i don't know how the country is going to handle it. katherine, your thoughts? >> during the campaign -- a couple of things. during the campaign a lot of the concern about donald trump's conflicts of interest involve the fact that we didn't know what he was invested in, what his liabilities were, who he owes money to, and might those unknown business entanglements potentially influence the decisions that he actually makes as president. now we are seeing that he doesn't actually need to make any decisions. he is already subject to this conflict of interest because foreign dignitaries know that they can easily line his pockets

by staying in trump-branded hotels. the second point that i would make is that again during the campaign there was a lot of talk about a blind trust and the importance of a blind trust and that term got muddied of course by the fact that trump said he would have his children in charge of this so-called blind trust which is not the definition of the term. but really the only thing that could take these conflicts of interest out of the question would not be a blind trust. it would be divestment which is even less likely of course than trump turning over the holdings of his empire to a non family member. but that's the only possibility that could even potentially remove these problems from his future administration. >> e.j., we have precedence in this in some of trump's friends. rick scott who republics the state of florida supposedly put his holdings in a blind trust

run by his wife and to force anybody receiving welfare receive drug tests. it's blind from us, it's not blind from him. he had direct policy that could have helped him out. you have donald trump owning properties. there's going to be a major golf tournament played at a trump-owned golf course. you have charities that are doing benefits at mar-a-lago, paying donald trump to be there. i can't thank a president of the united states for that. you had buildings dropping the trump name off because residents don't want to walk into a building with the name of the next president over it. i'm not sure how to grapple with this, e.j. >> i don't think any of us does. first of all, as your question to katherine suggested, we are about to have a four-year festival of hypocrisy. every concern about ethics that republicans raised about hillary

clinton is now inopera tif where trump is concerned. i'm very curious if anybody on that side is really going to step up. they are creating the possibility of countless conflicts of interest. two ethics lawyers for george w. bush and for president obama i thought had it exactly right about the way trump had been talking about dealing with this, having his kids involved. this is the opposite of a blind trust, they wrote. it is a demand that the american people blindly trust trump and his family. i mean, you can't have this. do we have a negotiation with a foreign power over here and a negotiation for a trump hotel and golf course in that country over on the other side. if people on capitol hill and both parties don't demand that something be done about this, it will be another example of profound washington hypocrisy. >> i'm going to pull a

mclaughlin mclaughlin, on a scale of one to ten, ten being absolute certainty, zero being no way, no how, chances that any committee in congress in the house or the senate will hold a single hearing on donald trump's conflict of interest and propensity to make money being president of the united states. on a scale of zero to ten, the chances of any republican committee holding a hearing? >> .00001. >> katherine? >> i say five. i think there are some stalwarts, particularly in the senate, who are concerned about how the trump presidency will be run and are actually -- i've heard from friends and sources who are still working within the republican party that they are concerned about this and trying to invest resources in

oversight. >> god, i hope you're right. >> kurt, bringing in the rear for us. chances zero to ten that there will be a single hearing from republican controlled committee on this? >> i think we have to do two pocke possibilities for the way things stand now. if donald trump is found to have acted in the favor of someone who was -- a country that was acting in ways that benefitted him financially and we have a quid pro quo bribery -- we already have the quid. we just need the pro quo. then we'll have lots of hearings and i think there will be bribery hearings brought during this administration. >> wow, we are in for a very interesting ride. thank you to the hope candidate. >> i don't usually think of myself that way. >> now we all do. the story everyone's talking

about. a history lesson for the next vice-president of the united states courtesy of the cast of hamilt hamilton. more "am joy" live from london next. attention: are you eligible for medicare? the medicare enrollment deadline is just a few weeks away. changes to medicare plans could impact your healthcare costs. are you getting all the benefits available to you? new plans are now available that could increase your benefits and lower how much you pay out of pocket. to update your coverage- or enroll for the first time -- call healthmarkets. we'll help you make sure you have the right medicare plan.

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here was the scene saturday night as mike pence went to broadway to take in the hit broadway musical, "hamilton". [ boo ] >> if it's not clear, those are boos. during the curtain call, the actor who plays aaron burr in the show made a direct appeal to pence. >> vice-president elect pence, we welcome you. we, sir, we are the diverse america who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us.

our children, our parents defend us and upheld our inalienable rights, sir. we truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our american values and to work on behalf of all of us, all of us. [ cheers ] >> dixon's message was written by "hamilton" show creator lin-manuel miranda. the message may have special meaning for the lead actor who plays hamilton. he's an open gay hiv positive man. in his past mike pence has advocated for using hiv funding for gay conversion therapy. as the governor of indiana he was known as a staunch opponent of lgbt rights. donald trump tweeting, our wonderful v.p. mike pence was harassed last night. camera is blazing. this shouldn't happen. he followed that with another

tweet, demanding an apology from the cast. future president demanding apologies from civilians. up next we'll show you how conservative talk radio is getting a seat at the table in trump america. more "am joy" live from london after the break. small business saturday is our day to get out and shop small. a day to support our community and show some love for the people we love. and the places we love. the stuff we can't get anywhere else and food that tastes like home. because the money we spend here can help keep our town growing. on small business saturday, let's shop small for our neighborhood, our town, our home. on november 26th, get up, (all) get together and shop small.

what isn't accurate about the steve bannon headline? i assume you're referring to that. >> pretty much everything. the man is brilliant and treats everyone kindly and the same and i think people are cherry picking some headlines and maybe even some projects that he was not involved with. he has the ear and the trust of the president-elect. >> welcome back to "am joy". steve bannon who boasted about making the website breitbart into the platform for the alt-right is set to become one of the most powerful people in donald trump's white house. as trump's chief strategist, bannon is likely to be more powerful than incoming chief of

staff reince priebus whose job is to make the trains run on time between the white house and congress. bannon's name was listed first on the official press release announcing their appointment. he's one of many high level trump staffers who hail from what used to be the fringes of right wing fringes who are very much the mainstream of republican party. laura ingram, a staunch defender of the alt-right is reportedly under consideration for the job of press secretary. >> are we going to retire the phrase alt-right any time soon? this is just -- drew, have you ever seen anything like this? this is just their shorthand way of trying to demean anyone who is not part of the press cabal, the press club. you know they have the national press club but if you're not on their club and you happen to

come at it from a more traditional previous, you're alt-right. >> joining me now, mark thompson, eric bollert, and from detroit mildred gattis. thank you for being here. eric, you heard laura ingram saying they're just mad because now we're invading their inner sanctums and you did have a column by fox news manager bill salmon who essentially said this on the first news conference that was held by barack obama. long-time members of the white house press corps who are accustomed to sitting in the front row of presidential press conferences were surprised to find their prime real estate occupied by ed schultz, a liberal who hosts a nationally syndicated radio program. that was back in 2009 when the right was wondering how obama could allow a liberal talk show host as well as the "huffington

post" to ever be a part of news conferences. now they're being snied about the fact that people may not want breitbart to be in the front row. what do you think, eric? >> there's no comparison to something like the "huffington post" and breitbart. what breitbart has done -- even a couple years ago they were a running joke within the conservative media, kind of a punchline. the reporting was not serious. if not punchline, sort of place of concern, right. wildly islam phobic, thinly veiled racism, occasionally anti-semitic, kind of the sewer really of the conservative media, far, far right. now we've got the sewer running straight into the trump white house. this is incredibly troubling. and again, laura ingram says the alt-right just means you're skefrt. no, this is not the weekly standard. this is not even fox news. during the campaign i was saying

that donald trump is the fox news i.d.. turns out he's the alex jones i.d.. we are careening beyond conservative media into something far darker and more radical, and it is the face of the trump white house right now. >> and of the republican party. inferi you're in liberal talk radio so there isn't a war between the left and the right on the radio. glenn beck, who is a member of the right who used to be considered on the far, far right, this is what glenn beck said on monday about steve bannon. take a listen. >> he's a nightmare, and he's the chief advisor to the president of the united states now. bannon has a clear tie to white nationalists, clear tie. he is a frightening -- no, no. he is a terrifying man.

>> if glenn beck is saying that about steve bannon, then all the charm offenses and p.r. initiatives that are under way to try to clean bannon up, they can't possibly work if glenn beck is saying he has ties to white nationalists, right? >> in no way whatsoever. the danger, joy, and think about how things have changed in these last 8 years, if you want to look at some equivalentsy if you recall when jeremiah wright made those incendiary statements, the reaction of president obama was to not only denounce and distance himself but condemn those comments and sever his relationship with reverend wright. steve bannon puts out a breitbart article or headline that is misogynistic, anti-semitic and puts out six or seven dog whistles to white nationalists and he's brought in as the senior strategist. there's a movement that says let's not normalize donald

trump. some have already normalized donald trump as president. what cannot happen is the normalization of the behavior of the american public. they need to be vigilant. they need to be out there, and they need to be loud and have a zero tolerance to this type of behavior. i point to laura ingram who was with referenced earlier, three days before the election she said that univision and telemundo were toxic, hispanic centric outlets that reviled the american experience and she's potentially press secretary which only leads to the question will there be a press blackout now of these outlets that reach tens of millions of americans. frightening times but the american people need to be vigilant because there's a subversive element in the country to make normal this behavior which is repugnant and should not be allowed in the american way of life and the american psyche. >> mildred, just some examples of that, some headlines from breitbart which was run by steve bannon until he joined the campaign. here are a couple of headlines. hoisted high and proud, the

confederate flag proclaims a gore yus heritage, racist pro nazi roots revealed. bill crystal, republican spoiler, renegade jew. birth control makes women unattractive and crazy. mildred, that person will now have the ear of the president of the united states and the right wants you to believe -- people like laura ingram want you to believe that you're just being mean and a sore loser if you think that's bizarre and alarming. >> first of all, all of us need to understand that the rules will never be the same for donald trump as they were for barack obama. why are we not surprised? mr. trump is the candidate that during his campaign showed us who he was. he was divisive. at times he used racial slurs and bigoted. why would he not surround himself with those kind of people. so this should not be a surprise. i think i would be surprised if

someone unlike those people that mr. trump is talking about bringing aboard showed up as part of his team. the question become how tolerant is this country going to be of this behavior. now, we know that to the victor goes the spoils so certainly this president-elect like all others preceding him has a right to select his people. i think that mr. trump is doing exactly what he did during the campaign. he ignored people who did not subscribe to his sexist philosophy, his bigoted philosophy, so this is what we get. this is a man -- isn't it astonishing, a man is being sworn in in just a few days and he just settled a $25 million lawsuit in his business practice. in another lawsuit regarding, i believe it was sexual harassment, bill clinton only

gave $200,000. so here's a different guy. >> we haven't even gotten into how many people in his circle have either some allegations or some ties to either bullying or assault or attacks on women. steve bannon is one of them, his ex-wife. one of the things that's happening right now, it's reported that there is a rebranding campaign, a p.r. campaign that's been hired, and the person hind it is a publicist who's pitching a positive story to the media about bannon. she insists she doesn't work for bannon. th while this part of the right claims they hate the media, the left, hollywood, bannon's own history reveals not so much a hate but a need and desire to be courted, to be loved, to be appreciated by the very left wing elite that they say they hate. what do you make of it? >> i would agree with you. that's always been a myth anyway that there's an overwhelming left media. we've seen from the campaign

there were far more negative stories and negative coverage of hillary clinton than anybody else. i think as your last piece just articulat articulated, what if there was a hotel named clinton, oh, my god, and there wasn't even anything like that. they hit her on the clinton foundation and we see what's brewing with diplomats staying in his hotel. bannon cannot be cleaned up. this is what people voted for who voted for him. he owes a great service and a great debt to bannon and breitbart.com. you know the old saying, you dance with the one who brought you. i think it's critical now that everyone remain active and vigilant and call these people out for what they are. flynn, his national security advisor, takes us back to the crusades. bannon, his special advisor, takes us back to naziism. his attorney general, jefferson davis -- i said davis, that was fraud yan. he's named after jefferson davis

and after confederate general beauregard. we have to address this and call this what they are, they are all racists and white supremists. >> by the way, to the republican party, you own this. this is the republican party now. let's not talk party of reagan and lincoln. this is you guys now so own it. thank you. coming up at noon, strange bed fellows. donald trump's meeting today with one of his fiercest rivals during the campaign, mitt romney. is this more than just a courtesy call? first, more "am joy" live from london right after the break.

at this hour, funeral services are under way in washington, d.c., for legendary journalist, gwen ifill, who passed away monday at the age of 61. gwen was a brilliant, gracious woman, as well as a ground breaking reporter who covered politics and world events for three decades, most recently as

co host of the pbs news hour. politicians and my colleagues here at nbc describe her as a powerhouse and loyal friend. many women, especially women of color, including me, looked up to her as a role model who set a high bar for both aspiring and successful journalists. i first had the chance to meet gwen over a year ago and i'm so blessed i got a chance to tell her how much i admire her work. she told me a black woman like me to rise to the pinnacle of success and basically do anything the world. gwen ifill will forever be an inspiration to me and others. our deepest condolences to her family and friends. rest in power, gwen. he gets a lot of compliments.

he wears his army hat, walks around with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad. male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. all right. welcome back to "a.m. joy." ej deown, who won the week? >> first thanks for that tribute to gwen. two runners related. the trump kids and jared kushner, the son-in-law.

and related to that, because of all the issues raised, investigative journalists, this will be a full employment act for them. >> absolutely. if they do it. and that's going to be the big test, whether the media can get exercised about e-mails. who won the week? >> compelling choices by aj. the unquestioned winner, david chappelle, joy, for delivering the most compelling monologue we have seen in "saturday night live" in decades. and for doing what the beatles did to america after the kennedy assassination, giving progressives a reason to laugh again, after four days of crying with those election results. >> yeah, absolutely. i agree with that. it was a really -- it was one of the funniest shows they have done in a really long time. the chappelle show came back. and hopefully comedy and people like hamilton and artists will lead the way and sort of bravely kind of stand up for american values in this moment. i have two -- i have two people to nominate for who won the week. one, whoever came up with these

great biden memes. americans have needed something to laugh about. and it's been really rough. these biodiesel memes. i want to freak mike pence out. obama, why? biden, just roll with it. whoever came up with it is inside the head of joe biden and really channelled him. my second choice for who won the week would be great britain. since i've been over here, i've noticed that britains who were so freaked out about brexit, so upset at themselves and their countrymen, now have someone new to laugh at it and it is us. people that we talk to say that they definitely thought the american election was more horrifying even than brexit. but people are very nervous. ej, really quickly, do you think that the united states has in a sense -- i don't know. am i wrong to feel that the rest of the world kind of feels like we let them down? >> oh, absolutely. i mean, you know, what's troubling about the trump administration, mr. flynn in particular, republican or democratic presidents, no matter what we did wrong, and we have done things wrong, we were always seen as being on the side

of democracy. this administration is showing authoritarian signs, alliances with far right movements. very troubling about who we're going to be in the world for the next four years. >> same question to you. what is the responsibility of the oil opposition to trump in these coming years? >> i mean, i said it earlier. i think as i said, we cannot normalize the behavior of the opposition, whether they be in the united states or abroad. it needs to be total and absolute or else. it is going to be normal, this strange case we have now in front of us. >> yeah. it is a really sort of scary time in the country. it's been interesting to be overseas and listen to the way that people hear talk about us. there's been a lot of talk about our election on british television. they're very focused on our election. they definitely have been following it. and there's a definite sense of alarm. our allies are worried, our friends are worried. and then with angela merkel up

for an election with a trump-type candidate with france having marie le pen, a female version of trump up, it's a scary time in the country. i really thank you for being here. and that is our show for today. thank you, guys. "a.m. joy" will be back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. still live from here in london, with tina brown and george takei. next, sheinelle jones has more on mike pence's reception at the broadway show "hamilton." donald trump has tweet and had now one of the actors is responding. more news at the top of the hour. simulation initiated. ♪ [beeping] take on any galaxy with a car that could stop for you. simulation complete. the new nissan rogue. rogue one: a star wars story. in theaters december 16th.