we're seeing tremendous talent and people that i know as i say we will make america great again. these are really great people. these are really, really talented people. >> good morning from london, and welcome to "a.m. joy." well, much of the media has been focused on the revolving door of donald trump's potential cabinet members and tweets about "hamilton" don't let america's newest theater in chief distract you from the real show that's going on. let's not forget on friday trump reversed course and agreed to

pay $25 million to settle a series of fraud lawsuits against his pretend real estate educational outfit trump university. after the settlement new york's attorney general eric schneiderman issued this scathing same. in twooenlt my office sued donald trump for swindling thousands of innocent americans out of millions of dollars through a scheme known as trump university. donald trump fought us every step of the way, filing baseless charges and fruitless appeals and refusing to settle for even modest amounts of compensation for the victims of his phony university. today that all changes. today's $25 million settlement agreement is a stunning reversal by donald trump and a major victory for the over 6,000 victims of his fraudulent university. and, yes, trump's meetings with potential cabinet members are also significant, especially his sit-down with former trump critic turned republican whose name is being floated for secretary of state mitt romney.

>> i appreciate the chance to speak with the president-elect and look forward to the -- the coming administration. >> that's a far cry from the romney we heard just a few months ago. >> here's what i know. donald trump is a phony, a fraud. his promises are as worthless as a degree from trump university. [ applause ] he's playing the members of the american public for suckers. he gets a free ride to the white house and all we get is a lousy hat. >> hmm. among those on trump's visitors' list today, rudy giuliani, who is also still in the running apparently for secretary of state, chris kobach, the archconservative secretary of state and author of paper's

please law and author of operation cross czech which was meant to scrubbed millions of people off the voter rolls based on their last name. he's advising trump on immigration policy, of course and new jersey governor chris christie who was booted as head of trump's transition team but may be looking to valuage is something for himself in a trump administration. but you know who else donald trump found time to meet with this week, three of his business partners from india who are building a trump-branded luxury apartment complex near mumbai, a meeting raising all sorts of ethical questions, including the fact that trump's adult children, the ones who will supposedly run his blind trust and who are smustly running his companies and serving on his transition team, they attended the meeting, too. so despite his promises to the contrary, will trump try to keep running his business while also running the country. joining me now are maria kumar, president and ceo of vote lote noh, kate dawson, michelle bernard, center of the bernard center of women and public

policy, nbc news political reporter perry bacon jr. and "washington post" opinion writer jennifer rubin. a great mega panel. first, kate, what do you make of mitt romney who called donald trump a con man during the campaign showing up to trump tower to i guess perhaps plead for a job? >> well, politics and politician is a wonderful business. i remember a former president of bill clinton making a comment about candidate barack obama and bill clinton's wife became secretary of state so mitt romney being forgiven for his comments or vice versa, you know, one thing i've seen in republican politics that we've done real well matching democratic politics is moving past the elections and finally saying, okay, guys, i got beat, you won or whatever and trying to move the country forward, so i think they conducted themselves as gentlemen yesterday. i can't tell you they will ever be best friends but there is a quality to mitt romney that

would help his administration and i think that's what donald trump is doing. he's not as you all know, there's nothing conventional about donald trump. so i think you will see some very talented people sign up to help him. >> well, nothing conventional except for bringing in a lot of conventional republicans, kate. does that mean that the people who elected him thought they were getting an outsider and all they are get sergeant same old republican party and part two is the republican party happy to be the party of trump? >> the republican party, at least the people who voted for donald trump and awarded him the reap cam nomination and then on to the white house, i think they are expecting drastic change, and i think that looking -- they weighed the risk and the change together with donald trump and chose him and picked for him and we saw people who hadn't voted in three and four cycles come out and vote for donald trump, so i -- i think that republicans and especially the -- what you would call maybe the new

republicans that showed up and awarded donald -- president-elect trump the white house are looking for some talent and looking for change. i think what i understand as a businessman more so than a political adviser is donald trump is not looking at quotas. he's not looking at the fact that america is 62% white, 70% hispanic and latino, 13.6% of african-american, i think what we's doing is he's trying to find the best he can find regardless of their ethnicity, regardless of what they have said about him to be able to enact an agenda that he feels he was elected for. >> and somehow still coming up with a lot of people who look very much the same as one another. let's move on from that, michelle bernard, speaking of business, reince priebus was asked this morning on "meet the press" what do look like potential conflicts of interest. donald trump has already had his daughter sitting in on meetings. his kids are part of the transition people, but they are still running his businesses. he had that meeting with some of his business partners from india

while transitioning to be president of the united states. this is what reince priebus, who is the incoming chief of staff had to say what asked about those potential conflicts. take a listen and then we'll go to michelle. >> i think what we have here is truly a unique situation where you have an international business person that has done incredibly well in life that is now going to work towards focusing 24/7 on being the united states and setting up a system, a legal system to shield himself from any and all conflicts. that is what we're doing. that's what people are going to see and in the coming days and weeks the american people will see that. >> michelle, do you have confidence in that assurance? >> no, and -- and no one can have confidence in that assurance. i mean, look what we've got. donald trump, for example, in his business life has conflicts of interest all over the united states and all over the world. example number one. donald trump's businesses have

some labor law problems in nevada. however, a president donald trump would be in charge of appointing all four members of the national labor relations board, you know. donald trump would be in charge of appointing members of the federal housing administration. how is he going to deal with all those issues and how do you really extract yourself and your family members from dealing with issues that the president is directly in charge of? he will -- he will appoint people to the equal employment opportunity commission. all kinds of commissions all throughout the country, the federal trade commission. how -- how can he avoid a conflict of interest without having a true blind trust and children running your blind trust is not a blind trust. >> and, you know, perry bacon jr., he would also appoint the head of the irs, someone who may

not have paid taxes for decades. never saw his tax returns and probably will never see his tax returns even though most presidents release them. he's supposedly under an audit. november proved he's under an audit but he would now be appointeding the head of the irs and is suing the district of columbia because he wants to pay less taxes on the hotel that he leases from the federal government that he would run. this is very deeply entangled. what are you hearing on the hill? is there even an ounce of concern coming from even republicans on all these entanglements? >> not seen a lot of that so far. i mean. the focus here has been most about the picks themselves over the key jobs, and what you're seeing surprisingly is even the jeff sessions pick immediately i thought would be very controversial, but immediately jeff flake and susan collins who are two of the more moderate republicans in the chambers praised sessions' pick as did joe manchin who is a democrat as well so we're not really seeing

strong -- there were the make america great hats handed out during a meeting of the house republicans this week so right now we're seeing a lot of support. you've seen john mccain and a couple other people criticize trump's potential views on russia and i actually do think mitt romney, he went to that meeting. i'm not sure he had a choice and it's not clear to me, and mitt romney may or may not figure, someone who criticized trump in the campaign and i do think you may see some of the people outside of washington who are in the anti-trump movement remain skeptical of trump. i'll be curious to see if that continues in the next few weeks. >> joy, i wanted to mention, don't forget his new hotel here in washington, d.c. at the old post office pavilion. that is on a lease through the general services administration, and, again, who appoints the members of the general service administration, the president trump. >> yeah. >> there's so many conflicts here. i'm going to quickly go to jennifer on whether or not you see coherence.

perry talks about mitt romney having been a critic. you know, we've heard a report from elliott cohen and others that there's essentially a purge going on. anyone who was not strictly loyal to trump during the campaign, even christie is seen as not having been loyal enough so it's odd to see romney there. let's look at the secretary of state options, and you can tell me whether you see any coherence in this group of people. rudy giuliani, bolton, corker of tennessee, senator corker of tennessee, mitt romney and nikki heal who also was a pretty big critic and gave a speech where she was still critical and said trump didn't represent republican values. what's going on here, jennifer, a head neighboring to make it seem like he has an intellectual variety and even an ethnic and gender variety? i don't know, what do you see? >> it's hard to say. is he doing this for show. does he not really realize that these people have views that are antithetical to his own and to one another. he's got a big trob in attract key talent, and that problem is

mike flynn who is a vaulted personality, highly controversial, very entangled with foreign clients, if this sounds familiar, that he shares that with his new boss and still engaged with foreign clients at a time he was taking intelligence briefings with candidate trump. he is going to be a big problem because anyone who comes to work in the national security realm is going -- at the highest levels will have to interact with him so how is, for example, a john bolton who is very strong in his views on russia going to mesh with mike flynn who thinks that r.t., their propaganda network, is no different than cnn. it is very hard to figure out, and i think that's because donald trump doesn't really think about issues the way you and i do. he thinks about personalities. is this guy a good guy? does he like me? does he look the part? he said that many times, so i think we are going to have some

incoherence. >> yeah. i feel like does he like me actually be the first question that's being asked here? >> yeah. >> maria theresa one of the things that unites people in the trump world is this vehement opposition to immigration. already heard trump make threats during the campaign to de-fund any cities that are sanctuary cities, we'll talk more about that later, but i want to get your take on the sessions pick which another member of the panel, i don't know who said it, is actually getting support from republicans on capitol hill. does that hey large you? >> it should alarm every single american when you see one of the things of the attorney general, one of their jobs is to make sure not only to uphold law of the land but also to make sure you're advocating for the most vulnerable. under eric holder we saw, for example, the justice department go after sheriff arpaio for blatantly racially profiling americans who happen to look undocumented, whatever that means, but they really were able to drill down and, again, uphold law of the most valuable and at same thing with loretta lynch. if you look at where session has just most recently, he's voted

against the matthew shepard anti-hate gay crimes and voted against ledbetter equal pay for women and voted against the violence against women act and believes that the legislation that -- that the voting rights act, while he vote for it, he considered it a piece of intrusive legislation. he also goes -- you can just go down the list. he most recently said in 2006 that individuals coming -- immigrating from the dominican republic did not provide any value to the united states. these are all his own testaments. the fact he would be only the second republican -- the second federal judge that was -- that was rejected by a panel of his peers under the republican leadership should set alarm bells, not just for immigrants here in america but just for every single american who believes in upholding our civil liberties. >> yeah. there's a lot to unpack here. my guests will all come back later in the program. coming up, award-winning journalist tina brown on brexit and the american presidential election l.you don't want to miss that. more "a.m. joy" live from london

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as you may have noticed, i'm not in my new york studio but here in the wonderful nbc london bureau, and i'm here because i was asked by the fabulous tina brown to participate in the women in the world summit here in london. i also had the opportunity to sit down with tina and ask her about brexit and the election of donald trump. take a look. tina brown, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> so we are here in london, so i have to start by asking you in your travels and around the world and really now being here in great britain, what has been the pragmatic impact so far of brexit, and should it concern people in the u.s.? >> brexit has been absolutely

devastating here in the uk. we're going to have inflation next year without doubt. house prices have already dropped. there's a sense of panic of people starting to leave because they fear that this place is no longer welcoming to foreigners and a tremendous amount of foreign-based people here already packing their bags and going to live elsewhere, but there's also a real sense that the unraveling of this thing is just going to be so expensive and so difficult. i was talking to people in the tv business at a conference the other day here and it's only just hit them when the copyright unraveling is going to be for all the content and now there are l have to be tariffs and different taxes. you don't have to have lawyers, you know -- every company will have to have ten lawyers sitting there, a great expense trying to figure it out, so that's really been on people with daunting concern and unlike trump they can't just vote it out.

>> and unlike talk there's talk that scotland could go its own way and the questions whether the uk could unravel as well. >> the scottish independence, which had a surge in the few years before brexit, now, that is actually not surging only because people have come to real oiz what, you know, a vote means that actually people all gung-ho for independence and are looking at brexit and thinking it actually matters what happens, you know. it's not all just going to be a vote is a prefrkts you know. we're going to be defiant and have a sovereignty. no. it could actually mean that your livelihood suffers and your business closes down so people actually in scotland are more taking a pause since brexit. >> yeah, very interest, so speaking of the protest vote, you know, we've been out on the streets of london today, just asking people and this is such an international community so they haven't all been britons, people from everywhere, whether or not they were more alarmed by brexit or trump, and almost to a person they said trump. >> interesting. >> why do you think? >> i think trump is very

threatening to the world. mostly because of people look at what happened in iraq and what happened when a president decided to do something that has turned out to have global ramifications that have affected every nation. the rise of isis can be attributed directly to the united states going into iraq, so it -- it actually raised people's consciousness i think in the uk of what actually an american president could do to their lives, and there's a sense that trump is so just anti-international in a sense, you know, particularly young people. they feel that who is going to defend full-throatedly liberal democracy? where is the leadership of the world going to come from, and there's a sense now it's angela merkel who is the leader of the free world, but it's not going to be the united states, and people are trying to digest this and they are looking at the things that were said in this election, the rabid racism and xenophobia and misogyny and they are deeply threatened by trump because america was always the

thing that everybody looked up to, that thought they wanted to move to and this is the place to go to and after brexit people thought i can go live in america. well, not now. >> yeah, i mean, what does it mean, you know, to hear that i think to a lot of americans it's sort of shocking because americans think of united states as the big lead country. what would it mean to the world to have global leadership move from the united states, from washington, to germany? >> well, i think it's very scary because, as you've seen with these unraveling relationships and the same way liberal brits have to realize they have no role in europe. huge decisions will be made by these countries in europe and britain isn't at the table. our diplomats don't have a vote. we just sit there and wait to be hand out a decision, and i think if america starts to be so focused on america first, as trump has said, then the chinese are going to be surging internationally, and who needs that? who needs china to be redefining the next world order so people

are kind of godsmacked here by what this could mean. >> and all rumblings of who trump will name in his cabinet, general michael flynn, who like trump seem to have an affinity for vladimir putin. here on this side of the pond there's a lot more of awareness what have it means to have a more dominant and more aggressive russia in the world. what do you think it means? >> i think it does mean that. last time i was here at the women in the world, we had a wonderful ukrainian combat pilot, a woman, shot down in russian territory and imprisoned, and she was in a putin jail for two years, and, you know, her translator called us, one of my team, sobbing, you know, he's going to let him have crimea, you know. that this is like putin is no longer -- we have no bullock against putin. there's real anxiety among

people who have experienced what it's like to have putin in their lives. >> i'm amazed when i'm talking to people from here, the britons, how the depression that they feel about hillary clinton losing. i find people feel here, too. we're just at the women in the world conference that i was very happy to be at with you, and just what do you as somebody who -- for a living tries to talk about women, their place in the world and empowerment of women, what does it mean to the world, you know, to have what happened in the united states? is this just a blip for us, sore there something about women's leadership? >> it's interesting. i don't think hillary anybody thought they had big emotions about hillary until she lost and then what we got from the audience last night at women in the world, young women putting up their hands saying my friends and i feel that what happened with hillary, however hard you work, how much of an alpha student you, are you're still in the end going to get stepped on by the big swinging bully who comes in and takes your role. what is your advice to us? actually the only advice is that

we did have some fantastic women running in this election, and they did win, people like tammy duckworth and kamala harris and all of these amazing first gay governor, you know. absolutely great, so there are women who are wing and who are surging and who are, you know, beating the odds. we have to really focus on them and just getting more of them because in some ways, you know, a baton has now been passed. hillary clinton and her generation, it didn't work in terms of making that -- getting past that glass ceiling, but i do think there's a lot of 40-year-old women coming up now, wonderful mix of women who have different ethnic identities and different sexual orientation and it's absolutely amazingly encouraging to see them running and then winning, so something good is happening out there, too, and i think we've got to really get behind those women and make sure that we augment and magnify their message and develop more of them. >> yeah. i think on that note, i think that's a good happy note i'm going to leave on. tina brown, thank you so much

for talking with me. >> thank you. coming up, the harassment and intimidation that's been spreading around the country since election day. more "a.m. joy" live from london next. i have asthma... ...one of many pieces in my life. so when my asthma symptoms kept coming back on my long-term control medicine. i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment with breo. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. breo won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. breo opens up airways to help improve breathing for a full 24 hours. breo contains a type of medicine that increases the risk of death from asthma problems and may increase the risk of hospitalization in children and adolescents. breo is not for people whose asthma is well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. once your asthma is well controlled, your doctor will decide if you can stop breo and prescribe a different asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. do not take breo more than prescribed.

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and let healthmarkets find the right medicare plan for you - without cost or obligation. call now. i would say don't do it, that's terrible, because i'm going to bring this country together. >> they are had a ration latinos, muslims. >> i am so saddened to hear that, and i say stop it if it helps. i will say this, and i'll say it right to the camera. stop it. >> according to the southern poverty law center, more than 700 incidents of harassment or intimidation have occurred since election day. the splc said it was not able to confirm each reported incident, but nbc news has been able to confirm more than a dozen, including the report of a university of michigan student who told police that a white male student demanded she remove her hijab or he would set her on

fire with a lighter. also, new york governor andrew cuomo has ordered state flies open a hate crimes investigation into reports that a swastika and the word trump were spray painted on the walls of a residence hall at at college upstate. according to the splc the most report incidents can be described as anti-immigration, anti-black and anti-lbgt and just to be colleagues, not all the incidents have been linked to tuesday's election. though in the latest anti-semitic incident, a memorial park dedicated to beastie boys founder who like the other members of the group was jewish was defaced with swastikas along with the words go, trump, and an anti-hate rally is planned at the brooklyn plan and meanwhile the ku klux klan will hold a trump victory parade in north carolina next month. perhaps trump should look into the camera again and repeat his message to stop it. up next, the late on a protest outside of the right wing national policy institute that turned violent. i'll talk to someone who was

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this weekend a bunch of white nationalists got together in washington, d.c. to celebrate their emergence from the shadows nat mainstream thanks, they say, to the election of donald trump. just pause on that for a moment. the conference which drew nearly 275 supporters was sponsored by the benignly named national policy institute whose president, richard spencer, is the white supremacist who coined the term alt-right. in this photo posted to deala tequila some and others in town gave a nazi salute at a private dinner with npi donors. the two-day event was disrupted by protesters who demonstrated outside the building on friday

and saturday. nearly 200 people gathered in a show of resistance in yesterday's protest. independent journalist alexander rubinstein posted to twitter and a fight broke out when a man attending the conference got into a confrontation after recording the protesters. the man was later taken away by police, but nbc has not confirmed the details of the incident. joining me now is steve phillips, founder of power pack plus and author of "brown is the new white," darryl lamont jenkins, founder of one people's project, an organization that monitors hate groups including the one at this week's conference and also back with me is jennifer rubin. thanks for all being here. darryl, since you were there i want to start with you. you actually brought with you some video of a couple of confrontations that you had with people at this conference. i want to play the first one and have you just sort of explain to our viewers what's going on. so let's go ahead and play cut two. >> don't start anything. >> don't start anything with me,

boy. >> boy. >> don't start anything with me. >> don't start anything with me, boy. >> boy. >> and don't -- don't start anything with me. >> don't start anything with me, boy. >> don't start anything with me, boy. >> who was that is? we have it on loop but who was that? >> a margo darby, and she is somebody who we've seen in the alt-right circles before. she wasn't too pleased of us taking pictures of her going into the conference but such as it is. >> yeah. and what -- do we know what does she do? what does she do for a living? >> still trying to figure that out. i want to say she's in certain mainstream circles, but we're trying to figure out who she is for the most part. >> yeah. all right. let play a second video, and this one shows two people who are sort of acting in the guise of journalists but we'll play

cut three and get you to explain to us what's going on there. >> sure. >> yeah, we're covering the battle. >> you sound like you're looking forward to the battle. >> they are over there. we're independent. >> go ahead and explain to us, daryle, what's going on here. >> well, as you saw from the first video where you see the altercation, the camera person there was the one that was getting assaulted. this was prior to that assault. and it was as if they were basically trying to antagonize the crowd whenever they went over there because this video was shot just before they did. >> and emily, who is the young woman we can see there in the front, who is she? >> her name is emily yaukis, an

animator, a cartoonist. there's some information that says she works with more mainstream conservative groups. she is also and one of those so-called alt-right persons, and she was covering this particular conference for a white supremacist podcast called red ice. she's been doing this for a couple of months now. she covered the dnc for red ice in philadelphia, that's where she's from. >> yeah. and steve phillips, we also have in dallas, there was a dedication that was taking place, and it was a memorial to texas' black history and a white lives matter protest erupted during that. we have some video of that which we can hopefully put up. this is a full screen about it, so a white lives matter protest at a memorial dedication to texas black history, there we go. that's some video of it. steve, unpack for us what you see going on here where you have

a resurgent white nationalist, white supremacist movement that feels empowered by the election of donald trump and that is now coming out of the shadows to do public events, even aside from the violence we're seeing. what do you make of this, steve phillips? >> yeah. well, this is what is unfortunately gotten too little attention in the election and subsequent to the election is that trump in many ways explicitly and implicitly appealed to the sentiments of white nationalists and to a broader constituency that would not identify that way but who believed that the u.s. is a white country, and so his whole notion around let's make america great again had certain strong overtones and echos of going back to a time when there weren't as many people of color, there weren't as many uppity people of color and that there was a much more explicit acceptance that the u.s. was a white country, and so there are -- this sector is organized and explicit around that's what they believe and that was the

underlying message of trump and this is the challenge that we face now in terms of the media faces this, the progressives face this, and we cannot allow trump to be normalized despite the fact that he has this underlying base of support and clear sentiment and around actually moving the country back towards being primarily a white country. >> you know, jennifer, these alt-right people, the white supremacists like steve phillips have tried to say, well, you know, donald trump isn't a member of our group. we just have an affinity with him, but whethery will meant to or not, he has absolutely triggered really just euphoria in these groups that are extremely anti-semitic. i have friends that are journalists who aren't even jewish works think their name sounds jewish and they get, you know, tweets about their families being put into ovens and it's become a regular occurrence. by the media covering steve bannon as just this sort of ordinary guy who is coming into the white house and not reminding people of his origins

and what he's supported through breitbart.com do we risk giving white national whasz they want which is mainstream benign acceptance in our politics? >> i definitely think journalist owe an obligation to the public and to frankly even the people who voted for donald trump to real expose what these people are and what they think. i didn't see coverage, for example, when steve bannon was named as a senior adviser of a great deal of the stuff that is carried on breitbart, that is explicitly anti-semitic, that does feed the white narrative, the white nationalist narrative. the act of putting someone like that in such a high position in the white house i don't think is -- has any precedent, and to my republican friends i say shame on you. i did not hear a single republican voice come out and condemn this. i think the president owes a much greater obligation -- much more so than any other

president, to give a speech, to look at the american people and say i do not share these people's views, what they are advocating is an an anathema to me. i intend to fully enforce the civil rights law. they have a first amendment right to speak but they don't have any right to incite violence and unless and until he does that, this is just going to continue to snowball and snowball. >> you know, steve phillips, before i come back to perry. jennifer makes a really good point. when jeremiah wright, jonathan cape hart has a great comment, when jeremiah wright made statements in sermons that barack obama wasn't even in the church to hearings he had to give an entire race speech before he became president to calm america's fears about his attitudes on race. why is there no grand call for donald trump to either distance himself from these people or similarly give a speech? jfk had to give a speech to assure the country he wasn't going to be a stooge somehow of the catholic church. there is no call for donald trump to stand up and give a speech and denounce this. why is that, steve?

>> well, this is the challenge. i think it's that -- frankly it's the reluctance and certain amount of timidity on the part of progressive democratic leaders and also on the part of the media, is that the range of unacceptable, outrageous and harkening to and sending these dog whistles and foghorns to people who have racist views as well as the misogyny as well as the xenophobia, it all gets excused and maybe even laughed away and forgotten about, but that's how this man got to the white house and now there's calls around we have to work together, we have to find common ground. it really runs the risk of normalizing what is in fact been a campaign which was propelled to power on the backs of these types of white nationalist sentiments. >> and to you, daryle lamont jenkins, what is it that these groups think they want and what is it do they think they can get

with donald trump in the white house? >> among the things called about at the conference, they called on donald trump to put a moratorium, 50-year moratorium on non-white immigration, but they also want their own state. that's all they were talking about. they spoke to me. the gentleman with the black skinny tie that was seen with tila tequila in that photo, he's half jewish and is calling for an all-white state. these are people who don't give a darn about america or what we want as a society, and i've got to tell you, the greatest generation became great fighting these people on the front lines in europe, and now we're bringing them into the white house? it's not just the republicans that need to call it out. democrats need to call it out as much as they can. third parties. anybody who wants a role in

politics or government or want the society to be better has to call it out and keep it back. i don't care who is president. >> yeah. amen. the media, too. steve phillips and jennifer rubin will be back >> exhackettly. >> daryle lamont jenkins, keep doing what you do. >> thank you, thank you. and coming up in our next hour, donald trump is threatening to deport 3 million immigrants immediately on taking office. what president obama could do to stop him. very important. much more "a.m. joy" live from london when we come back. stay with us. searching for a great used car? can you help? start with the millions for sale at the new carfax.com! show me cars with no accidents. that's awesome. plus you get a free carfax® report. start your search at rfax.com!

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one of the big international challenges awaiting donald trump is the battle to retake the iraqi city of mosul, a battle that's been raging for about a month now. isis or more accurately isil is fighting back planning to launch more suicide attacks in retaliation. throughout the presidential campaign trump planned to knock the hell out of isil. joining me now is our london-based foreign correspondent matt bradley. thanks so much for joining me. >> thanks for having me. >> let's talk about the conspiracy theory element. during the third debate back on october 19th this is what donald trump said about the mosul initiative, mosul offensive, take a look. >> you know who the big winner in mosul after we eventually get it and the only reason they did

it because she's running for the office of president and they want to look tough. they want to look good. she wanted to look good for the election so they are going in. >> what did you make of that conspiracy theory, and how was that received? i'm sure that that somehow rippled around the world. >> actually at lot of people in the middle east weren't speaking about it. as you mentioned, i was in iraq at the time of this debate, and, you know, as far as conspiracy theories go, if this was indeed a conspiracy theory, any political motivation, it would be pretty lame on the part of hillary clinton because, of course, the battle for mosul is still raging. >> right. >> and the presidential election is a couple weeks behind us, so if she was actually planning on having success in mosul before the elections then she failed miserably to do so. >> yeah. >> and, of course, there was some success in mosul. the iraqi security forces moved in quite quickly ahead of schedule and it doesn't seem to help her cause, so as far as conspiracy theories go, not a particularly good one. >> not a good one. >> let's play another bit from the third debate and this was

the other issue. donald trump claiming that warning -- warning the city of mosul when attacks and bombings were going to be dropped there,ette, was bad strategy. let's take a listen one more time to donald trump during the third debate back in october. >> about three months ago i started reading that they want to get the leaders and they are going to attack mosul. whatever happened to the element of surprise? okay? we announce we're going after mowsup. i've been reading about going after mosul now for about how long is it now, hillary, three months? these people have all left. they have all left. the element of surprise, douglas macarthur, george patton, spinning in their graves when they see the stupidity of our country. >> so rhonda slim of the middle east institute had a response to that, and she was on npr on november 1st and said announcing the mosul battle is important messaging to those civilians trapped in the city to flee if they can. trump's monologue about the mosul battle revealed more

ignorance with the multiplicity of actors and the regional dynamics. having been there and reported from mosul, can you talk a little bit about that dynamic because there are civilians in these cities that were trying to extract isis from. >> 60,000 civilians who have already fled mosul since the attack started about four or five weeks ago, and there is some 1.5 to 1.2 million siblings still left inside the city so all of this is kind of the piece with donald trump's vision of slamming isis and, you know, forget everything else, forget the civilians and forget the politics and that's going to be really important because right now donald trump for all of his criticism, for all of his bombast about the administration's approach to taking on isis, he's inheriting a conflict against isis that the u.s. and its allies are already winning so as much as he wants to destroy isis, isis is very much a crippled entity so the fight that he's going inherent, the one that will be important to him and going to require all of his skills coming to bear and all of the expertise from the white house he's now assembling, that's going to be the fight

after the fight. that's going to be the sectarian conflicts that have been left over by the emnitties of all of these quote, unquote, allition fighting with each other against a common enemy. once the common enemy goes it's hard to tell how the different constituent parts of the anti-isis coalition are going to get along in a new iraq and new middle east. >> the what are middle east leaders thinking? what are they worried about with donald trump, or are they worried about him coming in? he says he knows more about isis than the generals and proclaimed himself to be an expert. what do people in the middle east think? >> for a lot of people in the middle east they are welcoming this position and this posture. first of all, in the middle east, throughout the middle east, a renewed affection and throughout the world, a renewed affection for authoritarianism, part of the reason why trump was elected and seeing it in russia and all over the world so when it comes to, for example, the egyptian leader sisi and.erdogan in turkey, aloud of these people when they see donald trump they see someone who will throw away

the old pieties and quaint notions of human rights and really just take on isis full box and that's what a lot of them are very excited about. >> american strong man, something they are familiar with. wow, very interesting. >> nbc's matt bradley, thank you so much. >> great to see you. >> thank you. and coming up, the great george takei will join me to explain how rhetoric could meet an ugly reality in trumpmerica. stay with us for more "a.m. joy."

we will end the sanctuary cities that have resulted in so many needless deaths. cities that refuse to cooperate with federal authorities will not receive taxpayer dollars, and we will work with congress

to pass legislation to protect those jurisdictions that do assist federal authorities. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." last august donald trump promised to end sanctuary cities. u.s. cities that adopt a variety of policies protecting certain undocumented immigrants from deportation. trump hasn't said if he would follow through with his plan, whatever that might entail since the election, but mayors of some sanctuary cities are already pushing back. >> to be clear about what chicago is, it always will be a sanctuary city. to all those who are after tuesday's election very nervous, it's filled with anxiety and has been spoken to. you are safe in chicago. you are secure in chicago and you are supported in chicago. >> we are not going to sacrifice

half a million people who live amongst us, who are part of our community, whose family members and loved ones happen to be people in many cases are either permanent residents or citizens. we're not going to tear families apart so we'll do everything we know how to do to resist that. >> local authorities could refuse to comply with trump and risk billions of dollars in federal funding. meanwhile, some democratic lawmakers want president obama to act first and protect the most vulnerable immigrants who came out of the shadows under the protection of his executive orders. this week a group of democrats including illinois congressman luis gutierrez called on president obama to pardon some 750,000 d.r.e.a.m.ers, young immigrants who have applied for action for childhood arrivals or daca. joining me is theresa kumar and caton dawson, michelle bernard of the bernard center of women and public policy and jennifer

rubin of the "the washington post." listen to luis gutierrez talking about this idea of president obama essentially pardoning all of the people who came out of the shadows through daca under his protection. take a listen. >> this group has already been vetted by the federal government. remember, we're talking about people who came forward, paid hundreds of dollars and were vetted, provided their fingerprints and the government said go. you are good people. they are more at risk because the they registered. >> nbc.com posted an article on whether president obama has the power to do this. according to an unnamed white house official the president's clemency power would allow them to give legal status to any individual but said lawmakers were only seeking part of the immigration violation entering the country illegally, not legal status or work permit of

immigration status, just the part about entering the country without documents. maria theresa, is this something that voter latino, that you would like to see done, and do you think the president is likely to do it? >> i think we have to be very cautious because these individuals came forward. they were young people and basically came here before they were 16 years old through no fault of their own and came out of the shadows so that they can work and so that they can actually help their families and continue the education. upstanding citizens and have actually demonstrated they have given billions back into the communities and the challenge for the administration, had a conversation with the administration is whether or not they can blank at this because, again, the administration does not have the power to provide legal status, only congress can when it comes to imgracious laws, so it's very, very tough, and i think right now they are definitely at a challenge, but when you start talking about this idea that donald trump is going to go after cities that provide sanctuary protection, he doesn't understand that in 2014

an oregon federal court ruled that actually practicing that, making that -- a connection between i.c.e. and local law enforcement is actually unconstitutional, and race a result you're putting a lot of these cities in a quagmire and it's unconstitutional, joy, because what happens when a person is being held, they are held indefinitely and oftentimes without legal protection and in cases they have discovered even u.s. citizens have been held indefinitely against their will until they can actually find whether or not this person is documented or not. >> yeah, you know, michelle bernard, bill de blasio, the mayor everof york and it's interesting because a colleague of mine who writes for "the daily beast" wrote you're seeing mayors that will become the front line of donald trump on some of these policies. this is what mayor de blasio of new york had to say making police doing what maria theresa was doing, making police officers into immigration enforcers. take a listen. >> new york city already cooperates fully with the

immigration authorities regarding anyone who has committed a series of substantial crimes, anything involving violence, terrorism, major drug offenses. what we are concerned about, there's some very petty crimes, nonviolent crimes, where i think this becomes a more complicated issue because what we do not want to do is be in the business of our police forces being effectively immigration enforcers and talk to police chiefs around the country. they will tell you this. once people believe in the community that the police are there to effectively be immigration agents, the police lose their bond with a huge number of people in this country. >> you know, michelle, there's already difficulties around the country in a lot of these big cities between the police and communities of color. what would it add to that if you now have police being forced to essentially round up donald trump has said 2 million to 3 million people around the country. >> well, i would say it's fairly safe to argue that we've already reached a tipping point in terms

of the animus that we see between the police and many people of color in communities across the country, and the problem with -- with a perspective donald trump administration saying that they are going to ratchet down and really force quote, unquote sanctuary cities to deal with illegal immigration is that it is a back door way of sanctioning at the local and state level all kinds of discriminatory policies. it's very similar to the show me your paper laws that we've seen in, for example, arizona, and it states all over the country if police officers are told that they must go after illegal immigrants, how do you define someone who is an illegal immigrant? do you walk up to people who are brown and say show me your papers, prove to me that you're a u.s. citizen and prove to me that you belong here. that is racial profiling, and it -- it's completely illegal, and it would destroy, i believe,

the -- the sort of reputation of police officers all over the country, not to mention that this is not a state function, and the definition of sanctuary city is really very unclear. some places are not sanctuary cities because of any sort of political leanings but just out of a matter of practicality. do police officers want to be put in a position, for example, where they lock someone up under a detainer coming from i.c.e. only to find out that they have locked someone up improperly and they are sued and then the federal government doesn't indem any if i them for illegally holding someone in their jails. >> joy, can i just add to that. one of the things that we're finding, too, is overwhelmingly 67% of the latino community, they believe deeply in law enforcement. conversely though, 68% are afraid of racial profiling. when you've all of a sudden connect the dots between i.c.e. agents and police officers, there is increased violence that just goes unreported.

individuals are not going to be able to communicate willingly with the police if they know someone in their household all of a sudden can be deported whether it's domestic violence or whether someone gets robbed and these communities are all of a sudden getting incredibly vulnerable. not o'neale outside the home and recognizing that these folks will basically get their mouth shut because they won't call the police. >> yes. >> and, i mean, not only that. this would be sort of a sneaky back door way of de-funding some major democratic-run cities. you've got cities like new york, los angeles, santa fe, chicago. this in a theory would be a way for a trump administration to strip potentially billions of dollars from cities that are run by democrats which i can only imagine the loss in funding could create even more problems, exacerbate problems in housing and crime by taking vital funds away from those cities potentially. talk a little bit about the politics of what the optics of this would look like, jennifer rubin, if you do have mass

arrests and have the nypd and lapd said they won't do it being forced to go in and pretend to be i.c.e. agents and play immigration agent. what does that do politically to the republican party in the. >> first of all, the republican party that i knew used to be in favor of the constitution, and the constitution says that the federal government cannot physically, cannot by overwhelming economic pressure force the states to do something. that's why the portion of obamacare regarding medicaid was struck down. this is just doing the same thing. republicans were against this when the president was doing it, and now with donald trump they want to do it. local and state officials have discretion to enforce the laws. they can prioritize just as we were just talking about, maybe crime, actual crime is a higher priority, so i don't think they can legally do this. i think it would create havoc, and you know what. republicans live in those cities and those states as well. he took ohio as a -- as one of

his states that has columbus and that has cleveland and a whole bunch of big cities in there. is he really going to turn around and de-fund those cities? but i want to make another point. this is nothing but extreme racism. the largest problem we have with illegal immigration is not people who have come over the border. it's people who have overstayed their visas. many of those people, not all of them, but many from asia and from other countries. they have to come by air and they have to come by boat through the system. why is he not talking about any of them? this is all focused on hispanics who have come through the border at one time or know, some of them 10, 15, 20 years ago, and i think it's time for people of good common sense to say, listen. why don't we start really where the problem is. the federal government has the names of these people who are on overstayed vice arksz. why they don't do something about if they are so concerned bill legal immigration. i think this is an outrage and i think that's going to be politically a time bomb for them and quite frankly i don't think

it's ever going to happen. >> many of those are from here in europe. we're going to play a little later an irish politician who says about 50,000 from ireland have overstayed. i want to play for you, katon, the person who could be the next attorney general of the united states and to jennifer's point, the focus is not on the irish who have overstayed or europeans who have overstayed, very specifically targeted towards hispanics and i want you to tell me what you think this does to a party that is now a party trump. this is jeff sessions in 2006, a floor speech on immigration. >> so fundamentally almost no one coming from the dominican republic to the united states is coming here because they have a provable skill that would benefit us and that would indicate their likely success in our society. they are coming because some other family member of a qualifying relation is here as a citizen or even a green card herald, and that's how they get to come, and then they are

creating false documents to show these relatives or their spouses, they are married when it's not so. >> i mean, katon, aside from the fact that apparent ly people frm the dominican have made great strides in baseball and et cetera, et cetera, he's thrown them in a basket of unwantable. what does the rhetoric in the potentially next attorney general of the united states, what does that do to our country let alone to your party, katon? >> i think that you'll hear that these things are answered when it comes to hearings and confirmation hearings. at the end of the day campaign rhetoric now and jennifer said it, the constitution is there. one thing you're going to find that's going to bind the next administration together is i think you'll see fewer executive orders. i think you'll see poverty legislative process for the first two years and, again, on both sides there was a lot of

heated rhetoric, clinton campaign and the trump campaign on what they would do as president, but you have to go through a process to get all of this done. you know, one of the things we brought up a little while ago it is true, look at the cities where there are sanctuary cities and they are predominantly democratic cities, you know. i think if we've learned anything from the bridge scandal in new jersey that you better be careful how you practice your politics, so i would denote the fact that one of our commentaries said that might have been a political comment. i think what you were seeing out of donald trump was a message about sanctuary cities that was landing in rural america where he mined votes by the tens of thousands of people who thought their circumstances weren't working. >> why don't you condemn the statements that senator sessions made on the floor. that's what the question was and you didn't answer it. do you agree with him that these people are not worthwhile? do you agree that there's some kind of massive conspiracy to

get into this country on family connections? why don't you denounce that. >> since -- do i agree with jeff sessions, jeff sessions will be able to answer that for himself. >> i'm asking you do you -- are you offended. >> the other point about this because it's -- i'm sitting here cringing at the fact that we are ignoring the most important question which is that this is a question of morality, and when we are talking about morality and character there should be no discussion about money whatsoever. is it right or is it wrong, and by just the fact that donald trump -- >> we've got to go. >> considering jeff sessions as attorney general, we're seeing that his rhetoric is going to become public policy. >> absolutely. we have to go. very quickly. >> when donald trump was elected, all of a sudden all of the private industry stocks all of a sudden went spiraling.

when you're talking about undocumented immigrants and the fact you're going to round them up, it will go a big boon for a certain sector of the system and have you to be suspicious. follow the money, and as jennifer was saying, this is -- we are actually right now at a crossroads with our morality. who are we as americans and who are we defining as americans? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> well, maria trea, we'll keep asking that question on the show, appreciate you being here. katon, we'll give you a break to answer your question on jeff sessions because we would like to know what you think about him and michelle and jennifer will be back in the show. coming up next, george takei joins me live. don't miss more "a.m. joy" after the break. when my asthma symptt coming back on my long-term control medicine. i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment with breo. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid.

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come on. you're not proposing we go back to the days of internment camps. >> i'm not proposing that at all. >> that's the kind of stuff that gets people scared, carl. >> right. >> i'm just saying there's precedent for it and i'm not saying i agree. >> you can't be citing japanese internment camps as precedent for anything that the president-elect is going to do. >> as you can imagine, there was major backlash after carl higbee, a prominent trump supporter, cited world war ii internments camps in the u.s. as a precedent for trump world's desire for a muslim registry. due to rates of beliefs that all people of japanese ancestry posed a security risk after the bombing of pearl harbor more than 100,000 men, women and children were rounded up and relocated, forced to live in camps during world war ii. 62% of internees were united states citizens. my next guest recently wrote a moving column putting human face

on trump's unconstitutionalied and joining me is actor, activist and social media maven at george takei. at the age of 5 he hand hits family were forced from gunpoint from their home and relocated to an internment camp during world war ii. always great to talk to you even under these circumstances. your column was wonderful and it was they interned my family and don't let it the do to muslims. you wrote 120,000 people including me hand my family lost our livelihoods and homes because we happened to look like the peel who bombed pearl harbor. higbee speaks of it as an abstract policy ignoring the true human tragedy that occurred. what moved you to write that column, george? >> well, i heard carl higbee's interview on fox, and i -- my blood was boiling. he said there's precedent. if there's a precedent, it's a

precedent to make america disgraced again. it was one of the most shameful chapters of american history and for having done that many decades later, president ronald reagan apologized for it on behalf of the nation and paid a $20,000 token restitution to every survivor of the internment camp experience. that $20,000 totalled up to $1.6 billion. that's just the restitution money, not including the cost of the internment itself. it was a pointless, stupid action by the government and an enormously costly one, and this ill-informed man, higbee, doesn't know what he's talking about. if he's calling this a precedent it's a precedent to not ever do things like this again. he said it's for national

security. well, national security must never be used to justify the denial of fundamental constitutional rights and protections. >> yeah. absolutely. i want to play for you very quickly, george, three sound bites. one of them is donald trump himself, this idea of a muslim database, registering muslims was very popular with his base. it's one of the promises that he made on the campaign trail so you have something like 60 million people that are expecting him to do it. this was donald trump on november 19th being asked about this idea of a database. take a listen. >> muslims specifically, how do you get them registered into a database? >> it would just be good management. what you have to do is good management procedures and we can do that. >> that's nice. >> do you go to mosques and sign these people up? >> different places? you sign them up at different -- but it's all about management. our country has no management. >> so it's all about management

and then on thursday, this past thursday, a spokesman for donald trump jason miller denied that he had an idea for a database. he says president-elect has never advocated for any registry or system that tracks people based on their religion and to imply otherwise is completely false. okay. fast forward to today, reince prieb priebus, the incoming chief of staff was asked directly is there a muslim database coming, and this was the rather long and winding answer he gave to our own chuck todd. take a listen. >> i'm not going to rule out anything, but i wouldn't -- we're not going to have a registry based on a religion, but what i think what we're trying to do is say there are some people, certainly not all people, chuck, there are some people that are radicalized and there are some people that have to be prevented from coming into this country, and donald trump's position, president trump's position, is consistent with bills in the house and senate that say the following. if you come -- if you want to come from a place or an area around the world that harbors and trains terrorists, we have

to temporarily suspend that operation until a better investigate system is put in place. >> okay. >> george, when you hear all of those various explanations of what they want to do, what do you hear? >> you know, there's a lot of vagueness and ambiguity about this. now, let me tell you about a republican attorney general in california at that time, in the early 40s. he was a fine lawyer, but he wanted to run for governor of california, and he saw that the single most popular issue in california at that time was lock up the japanese movement, and so this attorney general who knew the law, who knew the constitution decided to be the -- an outspoken advocate for locking up the japanese americans, and he made an amazing statement. he said we have no reports of sabotage or spying or activities

by japanese-americans and that is ominous because the japanese are inscrutable, so it would be prudent to lock them up before they do anything. for this attorney, the absence of evidence was the evidence, and the internment happened. this attorney general ran for governor, won and was re-elected tries and th-- twice and he was appointed to become a chief justice of the united states and his name is earl warren and when there's a fog of ambiguity about the whole thing, that makes it that much easier to say, well, let's categorize them all as the same, and enact something like the muslim registry. we must not allow this to happen. >> yeah. >> back then they used national security as the reason, and here -- we again hear that same

echo. >> and -- and, george, as we show, i want our producers to put up some photos of you as a young child at rural relocation centers in arkansas and pictures of your family provided to us by cbs, more than 110,000 japanese americans, including little kids that were locked up, and i know in the next few days yourself and the producers of "legion," wonderful broadway michael i was able to see thanks you to and your partner, you're inviting ery mayor, every state representative and every member of congress and senator in each of the locations where you guys are going to screen a film, a movie of why the allegiance why the "on december 13th. tell us why you've decided to do that, george. >> well, in the '880s, congress had hearings on the internment. i testified at that as well, and their conclusion was that the internment happened because of

three things, more hysteria, racial prejudice and the failure of political leadership. political leadership failed, and we -- and we hear chilling echos of that again with the incoming trump administration, and it's this that concerns us very much. so "allegiance" tells the story of internment, a story that's still little known and even list understood, and we think that political leaders are very important in knowing about this history, so we are inviting them to be our guests free of charge, all political elected officials from the municipal to the county to the state and certainly on the federal level to come see "allegiance" on deebtz 13th so that they will learn something about this little known chapter of american history.

i think they will learn an important lesson and they will not allow this sort of thing to happen again. >> absolutely. well, george, you are a national treasure, and i thank you so much for taking the time out to come and talk to us today, and we want to join you in inviting everyone to see the wonderful broadway musical "allegiance" in select move theaters on december 13th. george, thank you and bless you. >> thank you for having me. >> all right. thank you. still to come, donald trump conned working class voters. i will tell you how. more "a.m. joy" live from london after the break. attention: are you eligible for medicare? the medicare enrollment deadline is just a few weeks away. changes to medicare plans could impact

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the search for relief often leads here.s, introducing drug-free aleve direct therapy. a high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. new aleve direct therapy. since donald trump's election victory, he's received congratulatory calls from world leaders, including the prime minister of ireland who confirmed that irish officials will still get a traditional st. patrick's day invitation to the white house. but at least one irish lawmaker,

senator aiden o'reardon, is rejecting attempts to normalize trump. his outrage has gone viral and become an international rallying cry. >> america has just elected a fascist and t best thing that good people in ireland can do is to ring him up and ask him if it's still okay to bring the shamrock on st. patrick's day. i'm embarrassed by the reaction of the irish government to what's happened in america. i don't use the word fascist lightly. what else would you call someone who threatens to imprison his political opponents and when else would you call someone who threatens to not allow people of a certain religious into their country? what would you say or how would you describe someone who is threatening to deport 10 million people? can the government not understand what is happening? we're at an ugly international crossroads, what's happening in britain is appalling, what's happening across europe is appalling. it has echos from the 1930s and

america, the most powerful country in the world, has just elected a fascist. i want to ask you, leader, to ask the minister of foreign affairs in this house and to ask him how we are supposed to deal with this monster who has just been president of america because i don't think any of us in years to come should look back at this period and not say that we did everything in our power to call it out for what it is. >> a lot of people agree with the gentleman in ireland, and coming up with trump in the white house will the democrats switch or fight? more "a.m. joy" from london next. i love my shop, but my back pain was making it hard to sleep and open up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. now i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.

an expression of disgust caused by inadequate litter tidy cats is the cure. with new guaranteed tidylock protection, you won't have to face one more stank face. tidy cats. every home, every cat. there's a tidy cats for that. i think it is time for soul-searching within the democratic party. >> as the smoke clears from the election, the democratic party is tallying its considerable losses. the presidency, both houses of

congress, 34 governorships and 67 of the country's 98 partisan state legislative chambers now rest in republican hands, and now as the democrats begin to ask the tough questions about where to go from here, many in the party are looking to one particular group of voters for the answers, the white working class. national exit polls showed a ten-point drop-off for hillary clinton's margin among union households who previously voted for president obama in 2012, and the 38% of rural america that backed president obama in 2012 slipped to 29% for clinton. with the clock already ticking down to 2018, some democrats and bernie sanders are looking for a win among the same voters who delivered a victory to trump. >> i think there needs to be a profound change in the way the democratic party does business. it is not good enough that the liberal elite. i come from the white working clarks and i am deeply humiliated that the democratic party cannot talk to the people from where i came from.

>> back with me are steve phillips, katon dawson and perry bacon jr. bernie sanders is actually from brooklyn. hillary clinton did okay in brooklyn but the point that democrats are now making is that they feel that they need to switch off of a message that emphasizes people of color. there's been a direct call saying democrats must drop identity politics. that in the national memo back on november 15th by a writer saying drop identity politics meaning focusing on people of color, on women, on things like that, on -- on religious minorities and get in and focus on the white working class. as a strategy, per, is that something that would have changed the equation for hillary clinton? >> the answer is i don't know. the one thing you must look as though is there are trump -- there are -- there are obama who voted for trump -- there's a -- anecdotal. there's a story in terms of counties that voted for obama that went for trump, and i guess what i would say is a lot of reporting from people that i've

read and so much that i've done has raised the point that people who voted for observe in in some of these areas, they will say i liked obama but then he took the side of black lives matter or, for example, and say things like that or too many latinos -- the latino growth in the county has made them uncomfortable so i do think -- the democrats need to do better among white working class voters but also to keep the low kisses they have. there was a drop-off among some of their own voters, whether white progress i was or african-americans as well and i do think it's a challenge in terms of how do you appeal to and keep the coalition? the democrats have been a very strongly anti-racism, you know, pro black and pro latino party and you keep that in hand while also appealing to white, working class people who occasionally are uncomfortable with racial discussions and uncomfortable with an aggressive fight against racial inequalities. that will be a hard thing to do at once based on what i saw in the election results. >> steve, you wrote a book

called "brown is the new white" where you get into a lot of data of who votes democratic and who votes republican. i want to so an excerpt from a "washington post" graphic in michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania which account for 46 electoral votes, which if hillary clinton had gotten two of those she would have won, the election was effectively decided by 107,000 people in these three states. trump won the popular vote there by just 107,000 votes. that amounts to .09% of all votes cast in this election which says to me that if the democrats had gotten out, you know, 35,000 more voters of color in michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania or if voter suppression hadn't kicked in and got some of those voters from being able to vote, that also could have provided a margin of victory. your thoughts, steve. >> yeah, absolutely. we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that clinton won the national popular vote and large majorities of people of color, along with a meaningful minority of progressive swhits in fact the majority of people in the

country. pennsylvania, clinton got 145,000 fewer black votes than obama did and that clearly would have carried the day, so there definitely -- we shouldn't overrefact that regard in terms of what the lessons from this are but the reality is that -- that we did lose some white working class votes and the approach of not talking about race in an election where it was very explicitly about race, certainly from the other side, did not work, and so the democrats need -- do need to talk to white working class voters, need to inspire them and challenge them, challenge them to take a stand against racism and challenge them and inspire them by offering a sweeping bold policy agenda that speaks to their concerns. another marshall plan or gi bill that really shows that the party is on their side. >> you know, katon, one of the phenomenon that i think gets undercovered, fox might have done -- run some of these numbers is white working class voteers have been republicans,

let's be honest, for 30, 40 years, haven't been voting for democrats since lbj but what you saw was a shift in white college educated voters in states like wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania that put donald trump over the top. it wasn't rural voters. so what do you as a republican think about the fact that donald trump overperformed with really white college educated voters telling pollsters they would vote for clinton or that they were undecided? >> i think what everybody sort of misses is donald trump tapped into the economic fear and hopes of america. people either have a job and want a better job. he -- he continued to talk about making america great again. he continued to talk about making your personal circumstances better. >> we don't have a lot of time. i'm talking about people who have jobs, who have jobs, who are not in economic distress at all but who are actually voters with either a union job or that have jobs, these are white college educated voters that were not economically distressed, those are the people that put him over the top. why do you think that was?

>> i think because they were looking at their neighbors and their friends and factories that were empty and situations that they saw where there was a decline in the manufacturing base of america, and they voted for something different and they voted for change, and that's how he won it. >> steve phillips, i'm going -- really quickly steve and then per be, is that the way you read the numbers when you have white college educated voters vote when they are not economically stressed? >> that's not economic equality, it's about the white voters voting for that candidate. trump said to white people let's take our country back and the democrats said trump had a bad personality. they had to similarly challenge whites to rise to the occasion and embrace the multi-cultural reality which is in fact what makes america great. >> all right. well, thank you very much. we're going to talk more about

this. we'll you back to talk more about it later. coming up at noon, president obama is trying to keep it positive as the world awaits a donald trump administration, but could that change once obama leaves office? more on that in the top of the hour. first, more "a.m. joy" live from london when we come back. for lower back pain sufferers, the search for relief often leads here. introducing drug-free aleve direct therapy. a high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. new aleve direct therapy.

while in london i did manage to have some down time. i took to the streets to have a little fun. take a look. ♪ god save our gracious queen ♪ long live our noble queen >> everybody. ♪ god save the queen >> everybody. ♪ ♪ god save the queen

>> go, britain. nobody sang with me but it's okay. >> coming up, more singing! just kidding. after the break, my panel returns for more "a.m. joy" live from london. ♪ ♪ when you find something worth waiting for, we'll help you invest to protect it for the future. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase, so you can.

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what will be the big headlines of the week? back with me are kate and michelle and perry. what is the big headline? >> the wednesday pick of another cabinet officer and the lack of diversity. >> i think people will be talking about the lack of diversity. good call. michelle? >> my headline for the coming week is continued discussion about donald trump and the possibility of conflicts of interest as mr. trump owns stock

in energy transfer partners, that is in the dispute with the sioux tribe in north dakota. they won't reroute their pipeline. just earlier this week, norway's largest bank pulled $3 million in assets from the construction of the pipeline. >> that's interesting. we will want to follow that up. very interesting. perry? >> liberals mobilizing against the sessions pick. i think that's important. unlike michael flynn and steve bannon, jeff sessions has to be confirmed by the senate. that makes it a different discussion. liberals are going to have to fight this. jeff sessions is in washington and he is a senator. he is in the club. so a lot of senators will be inclined, even democrats, to look favorably upon him. the fight is going to have to start from the outside and push democratic senators towards opposing him. >> do you think, perry, are you hearing any tea leaves that mitch mcconnell kills the filibuster to get through the

people that trump wants? >> it's killed for executive appointments. so he can -- you need 51 votes to get jeff sessions through. >> i meet for supreme court. >> for stream court, yes. i think what -- i think we don't know. mcconnell said so far -- i think if the democrats really try to block, if ted cruz is a pick for the supreme court, i don't think -- i think democrats will filibuster and republicans would try to change the rules. >> jennifer, what will be the big headline? >> it will be furor overflows. he needs to divest. he needs to liquidate. democrats and republicans will get nervous about that. >> jennifer, you saw "the wall street journal" call for him to liquidate his assets. any reason to believe he would do that? >> i find it hard to believe unless he begins to get extreme

pressure, unless republicans suddenly grow a spine. i don't expect that to happen this week, either. >> i'm going to you on this, why do you think it doesn't seem to bother republicans and donald trump supporters that he does seem to be setting himself up to enrich himself off of being president? >> that was played out in the republican primary. the voters moved past that. i think a lot of it doesn't matter. they are looking for a new cabinet and change. i think they probably trust the system to work properly. donald trump do what he says he is going to, which will separate himself from his business. i don't think it's going to be a big deal. >> perry, do you think it will be a big deal in washington among republicans on capitol hill. whatever he does, they own it. >> i think as the evidence gets clearer on this question -- we're a week into this. i do think that having meeting with people who might benefit from the business while he is supposed to run the transition, i think it becomes more clear there's an obvious potential financial benefit here.

you do have some republicans like i would say arizona's jeff flay who criticized trump sharply during the campaign. susan collins. i don't know if the house -- i think some republicans will raise concerns about this. particularly ones who are in states that are not very pro-trump line maine, arizona. >> michelle, which is going to be a stronger pull, fear of a mri primary or fear? >> i gotta tell you. even some of our most conservative republicans in the house and senate have to realize that justice is not supposed to mean just us. they will have to take a very, very close look at how mr. trump is going to proceed and it will be interesting to see. >> we will see. all right. you guys have been great. thank you for being here.

that is our show for today. join us next week for "a.m. joy" in the states. coming up, mike pence and his reaction to getting booed at a performance of "hamilton." more news at the top of the hour. anything meant to stand needs a stable foundation. a body without proper foot support can mean pain. the dr. scholl's kiosk maps your feet and recommends our custom fit orthotic to stabilize your foundation and relieve lower-back, knee or foot pain from being on your feet. find your nearest kiosk at drscholls.com. also available from dr. scholl's: heavy duty support for lower back pain, lightens the impact of every step.

hello there. i'm betty nguyen. it's high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. here is what's happening. a big announcement could come from the trump camp. another full day of meetings is under way right now. >> we heard a few boos and cheers. i nudged my kids and reminded them that's what freedom sounds like. >> for first time we hear from vice-president-elect mike pence with reaction to his night at the theater and "hamilton." >> you can equivocally rule out a registry for muslims? >> a direct question. we will