mitt romney is here. >> really, okay, send him in, please. >> yeah. >> [ applause ] >> hello, mr. president-elect, thank you for taking the time for meet with me. >> mitt romney, so good of you to come. >> this isn't going to work, is it? >> i don't think so. >> great. >> good morning, everyone. it's monday, november 21st. welcome to "morning joe." isn't this thanksgiving week? >> it is. >> it snuck up on us. >> it always does, doesn't it? with us on set, we have managing editor of bloomberg politics and co-host of "with all due respect" that airs at 6:00 p.m. on msnbc, mark halperin. good to have you onboard. political reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst robert costa on set with us. and back by popular demand, we've been trying to get this guy. he's hard to get. >> it's impossible.

>> former chairman of the democratic national committee and former governor of pennsylvania, and nbc news political analyst ed rendell at the table this morning. >> ed, how are you doing? >> doing good. hidden trump vote. called it. >> you certainly did. you certainly did. in pennsylvania, more than just about any other state, pennsylvania and florida especially, you just saw that hidden trump vote. just didn't show up in the polls. michigan, pennsylvania, or really in florida. >> and wisconsin. same thing. >> wisconsin, yeah. close in minnesota. all over the place. so we're going to talk a little bit about what that means. and i'm glad you're here because we're going to talk about a lot of transition picks. these names that could get past the senate like jeff sessions. it's going to be an ugly fight because some things jeff sessions said in the past. steve bannon out there obviously that's brought some headlines

over the past couple weeks. there are a couple other names that are floating out there right now. i'm going to ask you -- all of us really, about -- by the way, very white five selections and very male. we'll have you how forth they go and if some of those white voters expect more than the likes of rudy giuliani and where the women, where the minorities, where the people that are going to help ease some of the concerns people had about a trump administration. >> well, i think, again, there's two groups that trump has to appeal to. one is the base. i don't think the base cares. i think the base wants to see red meat and policy. they like sessions and bannon. don't care whether it's divisive or whatever. then there's the rest of the

country. where i think donald missed a bet is when kids explode and kids were running around saying white power, i would call that principal and say get the kids in an assembly monday morning. i'm coming down and i'm going to tell them that's not america and ream them out. >> a point that we'll get to and need to figure out exactly is how many of those people that went out and voted in pennsylvania here will do it four years from now if it is a very divisive four years. >> all of these meetings. it was like speed dating over the weekend. this should concern everyone right here, joe. that one. what's going on? >> secretary of entertainment. >> secretary of -- >> that's the worst of all. holy cow. >> we'll get to that. president-elect trump hosted 21 meetings over the weekend at his

golf club in new jersey. yesterday he and mike pence both met with rudy giuliani and chris christie. >> very talented man. great guy. many qualities. including smart and tough. see you later. >> okay. so if rudy giuliani is still in the mix for a top position, the former new york city mayor would face a long list of questions over potential conflicts of interest. giuliani has been dogged by questions raised by his business career as far back as 2008 when he sought the republican presidential nomination. in 2006, giuliani collected $16 million from both consulting work and a number of paid speeches. according to "the new york times," that year giuliani

earned $10 million from 108 speeches he delivered in 11 different countries. in one single month in 2006, he gave 20 speeches alone. >> foreign countries. the good thing is you can do the whole crooked hillary, crooked giuliani thing. at least he never got money from terror groups or anything like that or former terror groups? >> he did get some. >> did he get money from terrorist groups? >> is that bad? >> what would he put on his name tag, secretary of state terror taking money grabber rudy giuliani. i don't think you can fit that -- can you fit that on the plaque at the state department? >> probably why we haven't seen a selection yet. >> he took money from terrorists groups. >> they're doing the background and discussion about what the pick would actually mean, what's the consequence of it politically for those exact reasons. >> what we don't know is if the

senate is going to hold legitimate hearings? >> what do you mean? >> republican controlled senate committees have a choice. dot they do real hearings with real questions. a lot of democrats with time to ask question or rush his nomination through. we don't know. >> you have a political nightmare for republicans in the long run. i think they do conduct real hearings. you have people like bob corker and jeff flake and enough people to kill giuliani as secretary of state. certainly enough people to kill chris for dhs secretary if he's talking about muslim registries and other extreme things he's talking about if they choose to do that. >> i was at the capitol late last week talking to senators, for secretary of state, those hearings will discuss steve bannon and general flynn because those don't get confirmation hearings for those white house positions so democrats want to

flush out some of the biography in this administration. >> this is why -- >> it's not good right now. >> and ed rendell, this is why somebody like mitt romney calms the waters. >> absolutely. >> it's an establishment thing. if you put somebody like rudy giuliani that stirs up the water, you're not only going to talk about giuliani, then people are going to bring up steve bannon, which they would not bring up with a mitt romney thing. they'll bring up what sessions has said. they're going to bring up what flynn has said in there. and taking money from the russians. and being as tight sitting next to vladimir putin. right now this administration to be is on the precipice. it can pick mitt romney and move this in one direction or pick hitchman who have taken money

from terror groups in the past, former terrorist groups, on that side. if they go that direction, if they go the giuliani way, it's going to be a meltdown and all we're going to hear about is steve bannon, flynn, and his tweets about jews, retweets about jews and sessions -- >> he exposes everyone that he's chosen if we goes too far into the trenches. i'll tell you the giuliani hire, take bannon off the list because he's not -- none of these are even close to being great minds in terms of world affairs. not even close. >> if you say i'm going to pick mitt romney, you go up there and you're a good treasury secretary pick away from having a successful transition. so let's just say this.

if you get mitt romney, and jamie diamomodimon, this other they let through. if you pick rudy giuliani. >> i think you put our country at risk. >> there's a meltdown. there will be a meltdown. this is a thing people don't understand. i want a big -- bill clinton didn't recover for two years over a bad transition. >> the base does not care about who these people are. they care about policy. give us good people. base will take care of itself with policy. >> don't start your administration bleeding out. why bleed out for kris kobach? >> you talk to the trump people -- >> how about rudy giuliani? how about general kelly. you put general kelly at dhs.

you put mitt romney as secretary of state. if he is going after jamie dimon put him at treasury. you still need women. you still need minorities. you still -- as far as just pure resume and calming waters, that's at least less of a battle on capitol hill. >> one of the discussions difficult right now for the trump transition is if you have someone at dhs that it work with senator sessions as ag to enforce this hard line immigration policy that trump ran on. there's no move to distance themselves from this building of the wall and deportation, limiting legal immigration and battling illegal immigration. that's one of the main driving forces. >> it's easier to get there if that's what they decide they

want to try to do with somebody like a general kelly than a kris kobach who will cause bleeding out for six months. that's what i don't understand. get good qualified people around you. he has good names that have come in front of him this weekend. there's still a couple really disturbing things. >> there's no -- i just -- i can't imagine that he would pick rudy giuliani after the guy ran his mouth and got out in front of him through talking about how he's going to get the job and how he turned down attorney general. it would show that this president-elect has absolutely no understanding of the gravity of the job he has and they're in the country club laughing and chuckling and one of them drinking a lot. i'm serious. it's not funny. it would be a dangerous, bad pick. i don't have to agree with everybody trump picks. obviously this is not my team. there are bright minds on the

republican side that could help him run this country and keep us safe. that's not one of them. >> if you talk to anybody in new york city that knows rudy giuliani through the years, and i'll just say this myself and not throw to anyone else, it's one of the things people say off camera. i'll tell you it to you on camera specially if this guy is considered secretary of state. even people close to trump say rudy giuliani mentally is a few steps slower than he was several years ago. everybody that knows the guy says he's not up to the job of secretary of state. the question is whether the guy he's shaking hands with right now is the only one in america that doesn't know rudy giuliani is not up to this position. he's not qualified for this position. he doesn't know foreign policy. and it would be a disastrous pick. he has some great choices out there. and we don't know what he's

going to do. despite what some people may say, he hasn't told us what he's going to do. i do know he spoke with mitt romney and that would be a great way to calm the waters. >> many other names and there's 60 days. joe mentioned kris kobach met with trump on saturday. one of the architects of the well known arizona immigration law parts of which struck down by the supreme court. he was also behind a 2013 kansas law requiring voters to provide documents like birth certificates or u.s. passport when registering to vote for the first time. a u.s. appeals court blocked it. he told reuters last week he's been part of transition conference calls for weeks and that they're pursuing plans for a border wall potentially

without congressional approval and according to reuters, "to implement's call for extreme vetting of some muslim immigrants, he said the immigration group would recommend the reinstatement of a national registry of immigrants. he helped designed a program that included cataloging people from countries deemed higher risk in the wake of the september 11th attacks but the federal government abandoned that program in 2011." >> more red meat for the base but how much red meat does the base need and at what point are we going to be having fights on the hill when donald trump should move forward with his programs. >> if there's one issue he ran on, it's control the border. and, again, this goes back to so many unknowns about how this will work. a lot of republican members of congress who aren't going to allow encroachments on civil liberties and specifics about

how you build a wall and get mexico to pay for it. i don't have any doubt that he will aggressively in the first six months try to close the border. >> you tell me, is kris kobach going to lead to confirmation hearings versus general kelly? >> i said before, a big unknown is how seriously will republicans and majority in the senate scrutinize and potentially vote against or ask tough questions of his nominees. >> mark's right. trump ran on the jeff sessions, chr chris kobach. that wing of the party won the white house. if anyone is paying attention, it's what they paid on. kris kobach is the wing of the party going back to arizona law. when i was talking to house members and senators, their sense is trump will give them

what they want on corporate tax reform. he's going to give them what they want on aca and what they want on regulations and if he wants to go do the border, they're going to have to give him something on that because that's what he ran on. >> do you think again on -- i hate to be the bearer of bad news for republicans, but i've been through a few of these things. ed, you've been through a few of these things. if you have kris kobach up there talking about a muslim registry and jeff sessions' past quotes and you have rudy giuliani getting -- a combination of hillary clinton and bill clinton getting this money showing horrible judgment from foreign countries in speeches, that's right out of the crooked hillary playbook. and then you have all of steve bannon's quotes. and then you have general flynn retweeting no jews, you won't

get away with it this time jews and all of the conspiracy theories and the sharia law c s conspiracy theories that he's propagating. just like we predicted trump was going to win, stop for a second. we can tell you what this is going to look like. it's going to be a blood bath. we told you he would win the prim primary and could win the general election. we'll be fighting this if he puts these people up and doesn't put up people that calm the waters, we're going to have blood baths into july of 2017 on the hill. >> the shame of it is that it's unnecessary. those guys in western pennsylvania, those democrats who voted for donald trump, they want economic change. they want jobs. they don't care about kobach. they don't care about the wall.

do you think anybody really cares about the wall? i think most people know the wall is a joke. and what is he talking about a fence now? >> parts of it. >> wall/fence combo. >> combo. i agree with you. there's no reason for this. >> that's what i'm saying. don't distract. if he can get general kelly running dhs, then why get somebody that's a flame flthrow and shooting his mouth off like rudy giuliani about what's going on during the transition? can't anybody keep their mouth shut? >> i haven't lost hope. >> why do they run to the press. we talked about -- >> my god. it's crazy. >> it's opposite of what we're talking about. who should he pick for dhs? many people have reservations about taking that position because you have to enforce this trump immigration policy. you're going to have your fingerprints on the trump wall. >> there are more people we

could see in there. >> one of the things you overlook is, i mean, it's going to be a beautiful wall. it's going to be a big beautiful wall. there will be big beautiful door -- what? what? who wouldn't want their fingerprints on that wall? then we have the mitt romney meeting. that would be great. i think personally. >> there are many more. >> that would calm waters. michelle rhee as secretary of education. that was good. general madded is. cia pick pompeo getting positive remarks from military establishment. what else? >> he needs some diversity and

needs to fill big cabinet jobs. if he does that well, he can get off to a pretty good start. >> the congresswoman from washington, she's up for a possible post. i'm hearing maybe interior, labor. bob woodson, african-american conservative up for housing and urban development. t.w. shannon may be up for transportation. they're aware they need to start announcing. >> what about ben carson? >> he said he's not qualified. >> my gosh. >> one person's name we haven't mentioned that we should is mike pence. strong appearance on sunday morning tv yesterday that is showing just how much he's going to be part of not just personnel and policy but communications. >> the most important thing, mika, as we're sitting here right now and we're in a

precipice and it can go either way. he can make a series of picks and if we're talking about jamie dimon or some other really respected in the business community and you add that with mitt romney and then you add that with general mattis, if you take care of treasury and state and the pentagon, defense, with respected people, solid, respected good, talented people like that, then good. you win. you hold serve. >> we still need to talk about what happened over the weekend on broadway. still ahead on this "morning joe," howard dean. the cast of "hamilton" -- >> good show. seen it a couple times. it's great. it teaches you -- if you go in there with an open mind, you can respect people with whom you disagree. i think that's the thing that "hamilton" taught me.

i went home and you know what i said? when i saw it i said i wish every republican would come and watch this. it would be so good for them. >> the problem is a lot of people in the audience were democrats when mike pence walked in with his daughter. >> did mike pence go? >> he loved it. >> that's good. that's what we need. we need to bring people together. when people come together and respect each other, then anything can happen. this is what i love. artistic community, i found in new york, i know a lot of these people. do a lot of music. been in studio sessions. most open-minded people in the world. when they see me, they're, like, okay, it's about music. it's one thing that brings us together. we keep politics out of the recording sessions wherever we are. i spent a lot of time with a lot of great broadway musicians. very open-minded. >> that's not what happened. >> what do you mean? >> people in the audience booed them really loudly. >> who did they boo?

>> mike pence and his daughter who were just there to see a show. >> wait. they booed mike pence's daughter? >> and then the cast came out -- >> what about the nephew? did they boo the nephew? wait a second. this is new york city. hold on. i thought people in the flyover space were supposed to be close minded. >> some people applauding. a lot of boos and then the cast came out and actually as they were trying to leave because maybe they might have been just a smidgen uncomfortable. >> did they tell the crowd not to act like savages. >> they gave pence a long lecture and read about their fears. i think it might have actually been kind of pinpointing people in a very awkward situation maybe even potentially dangerous. it was not a good night. >> what do you think of that, mika? >> look, a lot of people have a lot of different opinions about it. i thought it was the wrong thing to do. >> absolutely. there have to be limits. public officials have to have

some space that's off-limits. my first year as mayor i had to make a lot of cuts. i go to college basketball with my 11-year-old son. my refuge. nobody bothers me. there's a rollout. who could be mean enough and didn't need to be told what was coming next to close libraries but mayor rendell. >> so they boo you and your 11 year old. >> there's a big rollout. >> the thing is, you're right, there has to be place, a refuge and more important though i didn't know this happened this weekend i was looking on twitter and bruce springsteen's lead guitarist said a guy comes to a broadway show for a relaxing night out and given a lecture from the stage. it's not a level playing field. it's bullying.

bruce springsteen, he talks politics. he never points. he never singles somebody out in the crowd. so many ways they could have done it. you don't -- like you said, especially if you bring your kids. >> just awful. >> yikes. >> and if they want to hold a press conference and deliver a message to the president or vice president or hand him a letter but, gosh -- >> that was bad. >> awful. i got killed on twitter. >> you're right. >> i was embarrassed. still ahead on "morning joe," howard dean -- >> i want to talk about the commercial. it explains the election better than anybody else. >> what's his name? the kid on the commercial. it explains the election. the parents on the couch. >> they voted for trump. >> they are the ones who voted for trump. lucas is still sitting there. >> i don't think it's lucas. who is it? >> wondering why trump won.

the parents on the couch were the voters in wisconsin, ohio, and michigan and pennsylvania that elected trump. you can't lift the hammer. you treat people disrespectfully when they come and pay lots of money to watch your play. who do we have next? >> howard dean says the next dnc chair shouldn't moonlight on capitol hill. representative keith ellison joins us next on "morning joe." d network that gives 35,000 fans a cutting edge game experience. or the network that keeps a leading hotel chain's guests connected at work, and at play. or the it platform that powers millions of ecards every day for one of the largest greeting card companies. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.

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>> proud of you, son. ge. manufacturing. that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grand pappy's hammer. meant a lot to him. >> ge makes powerful machines but i'll be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world -- >> you can't pick it up, can you?

go ahead. you can't lift the hammer. >> it's okay. you're going to change the world. >> one of the best ads ever. >> the guy on the couch, the mom, they're from oshkosh. they voted for trump. and the son is sitting down and he thinks that people going and booing people is a noble thing to do and upholds the first amendment. >> that's so good. >> will you confirm the people on the couch are the reason donald trump will be president. >> they don't care about steve bannon and appointments, they care about jobs. if he was smart, he would do full speed ahead infrastructure and bring literally tens and tens of thousands of people back to work post-haste. >> joining us now, co-chair of the congressional progressive

caucus, democratic congressman keith ellison of minnesota running for chairman of the democratic national committee. would you agree those folks vote for trump? >> maybe so. they've already been disappointed. there's already headlines out there how more lobbyists, more big-time bankers coming in. that's the problem. these folks were made promises that are already not being kept. i think they deserve to have those promises kept. they have a real infrastructure built. >> let me ask you about the democratic party. obviously one of its lowest points since the 1920s. almost a century. if you're running the party, how do things change? >> first, we put the power of the grassroots hand. we decentralize power out of washington into the neighborhoods and into the community. we prioritize voter turnout. that was a big problem. we didn't have the turnout we needed. we had a falloff. of course we promote collaboration between democrats all over the place. we got to work together more.

the most important thing is to help the american people understand the democratic party is their instrument for having a better life and democratic party is fighting every day for working man and woman of this country. that's what we have to do. >> would you give up your house seat to be chair? >> i think that's a fair conversation. it's too early to have that. focus on what's the problem? why didn't we win? we didn't have turnout. what do we need to do? we need to get more turnout. we need to focus on what the problem is which is that we didn't have enough people coming to the polls for our side. governor rendell points out we lost the whole thing by 100,000 votes in three states. if we focus on solving the problem at hand, that is how we win. i'm an organizer and i'm very good at voter turnout. i got over 250,000 votes. i used to have lowest voter turnout congressional district in minnesota. now i have the highest.

i want to take some of those turnout techniques, draw on other people's ideas and help get people to the polls. you know, flint didn't turn out very well. they are still using bottled water. this is an outrage. >> that's an example of where the democratic party is where they are all talk and no real message and no real results. that's exactly what the flint story is. and chuck schumer said that the party doesn't have a message. i said the same thing for two years about hillary clinton's campaign. there was not a bold message that had a record. >> let me tell you, there was a lot of good work democrats did to try to bring attention to flint. look, the governor still is the guy hurting the people of flint. >> you can't go there and take the credit and drink the water and prop people up and walk away. >> you can't do that. you also need some cooperation on the other side of the table when those guys are in the majority. and so the real thing is that

people when they are trying to figure out how to get a bath and a drink of water, voting may not be their top priority. what we need to do is go to them and say if you vote in this election, here's what you're going to get. we've got to be more laser beam focused on working class people's needs. >> we agree. >> i agree that turnout is the key for us. we have to get back voters that we lost. i think we've got to do that in nonelection years. we've got to have town meetings. we have to listen to concerns. if i was in charge of hillary's campaign, i would have had hillary out in those areas like when she went to west virginia during the primaries and she got battered around but a lot of those coal miners came away with respect for her. maybe she picked up five or ten of those coal miners. if she picked up five or ten in every one of those town meetings, she carries michigan. >> i love what you're saying. you have to get beat up a little bit. people have a right to ask you a

question. one thing i learned over the course of time and you're an old hat at this stuff, governor. just because someone is going to ask you a tough question in a community meeting doesn't mean they're not for you. don't take it personally. take it seriously and listen to those folks. >> and respect them. >> and respect them. understand this is america. this is a democracy. everybody gets to have their say. >> so great to have you here. >> we'll take a look at must read opinion pages ahead on "morning joe."

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coming up, america's president-elect has been working phones speaking with dozens of foreign leaders and u.n. officials. how has the reception been on the other end of the line? richard haass joins us for that discussion next on "morning joe."

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>> i was reading in the new york post that melania and donald trump's son are going stay actually in new york for a little bit, which isn't surprising.

>> i totally get it. try not to uproot his life. it's difficult to live in but to cut your school year off like that, and they are really close. like she said on "60 minutes," we will figure it out. >> it's tough. sounds like the same imitation of your mother. >> that's what my mother sounds like. she's czech. they're both from that area. >> your mother would say get over it. you're moving. >> joining us from washington, resident and senior fellow on international security at the atlantic council, my republican brother. hello, ian. >> black sheep of the family. >> and on set, richard haass, author of "a word in disarray american foreign policy and the cries of the old order."

>> richard, the president-elect has been talking to world leaders on the phone that expressed surprise that they're able to reach somebody that could be president of the united states or is president of the united states. there have been a lot of reports surprised about -- let's just say relieved that there is someone who wants to talk to them. there was a real distance between barack obama and a lot of world leaders. >> that's an area where there's low hanging fruit for donald trump. the united states has not done retail foreign policy over the last four or eight years particularly in the middle east. ironically enough it put saudis and israelis have been rubbed raw and we haven't invested in some of the strategic exchanges. diplomacy can actually help your foreign policy. there's low hanging fruit for donald trump and his team if he chooses the right team to actually pick that fruit.

>> and one of the areas where there is a real need for this incoming president to calm the waters has to do with nato. what should donald trump do to ensure our nato allies that he's not going to throw away what's really been sort of centerpiece of u.s. foreign policy in the postwar era since 1945. >> he can do a couple things. first, emphasize that his policy is driven by the principle of allies and partners first. he could signal during this transition he's going to live up to his campaign commitment he made at a speech in april to conduct or hold a nato summit early in his administration. second, he can do things to reaffirm american commitment to nato's new security posture in central europe. to reaffirm that he'll execute

obama's plans to deploy u.s. forces in europe. i think those are two steps that he could take that would send reassurance particularly to central europe where they are very uneasy about what a trump presidency will bring to that region. >> allies first approach makes a lot of sense. the other thing he's going to have to do is fill in the trade space. for asia, the so-called pivot or rebalance you had diplomatic president and greater military presence and you had trade and economic presence. the fact that tpp, whatever else you think about it, like it but put it aside, that is gone right now. we need some substitute economic dimension and this is an important thing. we don't want china now becoming the hub of the wheel of asia economically. if we're not going to do tpp, we have to find something else. >> all this focus on the cabinet jobs but a lot of leading republican conservative foreign

policy types sign letters opposing donald trump and some notion that donald trump doesn't want them in the government. how much interest is there in the foreign policy community in serving this the ining in this ? >> these are people that do the interagency work. these are your experienced hands. they work for george w. bush and in some cases for his dad. they're needed. they have to be willing to come. a lot of them are particularly if someone like mitt romney were secretary of state. i think you would see a lot of them willing to go there or to the defense department under somebody like mattis and the question is whether the president is willing to forgive even if he's not willing to forget. i think it's important. you have hundreds and hundreds of jobs at state, at the white house, at the pentagon, in the intelligence community, we need that talent. >> so a lot has been talked about in terms of the relationship with russia. a lot of focus on president-elect trump's kind of warmth toward vladimir putin.

do you think that warming relations with putin is necessarily a bad idea or how should this relationship be framed out? >> you know, i think we want to have a better relationship with russia. trump is not wrong to exploring the opportunities for that. he has to figure out how he's going to do that. and i think he needs to avoid words like bargain or deals with russia. for a couple of reasons. one, as i mentioned, it creates real unease in central europe and brings back memories of division and stimulates the worst onom picy. so avoid language of the deal. reaffirm a commitment to the alliance. signal continuity on economic sanctions. that's the way to start your relationship with putin. a position of resolve as opposed

to signaling premature accommodation. >> that's exactly right. but also to use a word reset. there is a chance to get things right with russia. i would say someone like a henry kissinger, send an envoy and show respect. i think putin reflects the humiliation after the cold war. you don't cut deals. invest in this relationship. show russia what a legitimate place is for them in europe and middle east and push back where you have to but a little bit of diplomacy could go a long way. >> do you see rudy giuliani really leading the charge on that there? okay. >> that's going to be a challenge. a messy confirmation but obviously you're going to need someone who can be close to the president, reassure the world, work closely with the rest of the team, i don't like talking

about personalities but it's an uphill challenge. >> thank you both. we'll talk about this a lot more. coming up, never say never. how opponents to donald trump are seeing an upside to the new administration. "the new york times" jeremy peters has reporting on that ahead. they are the natural borns enemy of the way things are.

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people would ask me that we traveled,ntries what is your nationality and i would always answer hispanic. so when i got my ancestry dna results it was a shocker. i'm from all nations. it puts a hunger in your heart to want to know more. >> the president-elect deserves tremendous credit for the way he was able to connect with the

electorate, but he did not do it by celebrating the republican party. and the american people did not vote for him because he had an r next to his name. he ran against both parties. against the political system at large. a system he argued was fundamentally broken. an argument that voters s subscribed to in massive numbers. we had no one to blame but ourselves. >> joining us now, "the new york times" reporter jeremy peters. jeremy, you had an article over the weekend about republicans turn ed off by trump who are trying to focus on policy. explain that fine balance. >> i think there's a couple things going on here. one, you have the people who are trying to disassociate the man from the policy. they say, okay, fine. we didn't get the president we wanted.

at least he is in line with us on many policies that we can agree with a lot of that being wrapped up in obamacare, economic reforms, tax cuts, things like that. then i think you have people who are just ready to put the partisan rank of the election behind them on capitol hill and say give him a shot. it's kind of like the obama approach. see if trump -- if trump succeeds, the nation can succeed. let's go into this together. >> what choice does anybody have at this point? i feel like on both sides of the aisle there are people who are so angry, cast of "hamilton" booing pence in the audience. personally, you know, is this the youtcome i wanted? no. there's nothing to argue against until there is. >> are there still republicans that are still holdouts on capitol hill? >> the only republican that comes to md is senator rand paul for ideological reasons as

a libertarian raising some concerns. >> a few others. >> a few others certainly about trump's temperament and instinct on foreign policy. what you're watching unfold in the gop, this was supposed to be a time of rethinking the party and how could it survive. 2017 was going to be the year of rethinking. now power unites. has the house and senate working together. they think maybe this could be the greatest opportunity for conservative legislating in a generation. people are even talking about lbj style rollouts of different legislation. >> which is really great for the country and for the democratic party. it was fantastic for two years. these republicans want to go far to the right, they're going to have a really great 2017 and 2018. >> overreach is always a

possibility. >> it's always deadly politically. >> what some people are talking about and bob just suggested it. paul ryan and others putting policy proposals out there on tax reform and other things for a long time and it's possible rather than hold tons of hearings and start from scratch, they're going to take some of this legislation off the shelf and start passing it in a big hurry. >> ed, at the end of the day again, jobs is the bottom line. it's got to be about jobs. and i remember when we came in in '94 and big contract with america, we spent 90% of our time basically defending the crazy things newt gingrich said instead of talking about legislation. that's a problem again. with giuliani, by the way, what's happened in washington where you've got rudy giuliani shooting off his mouth and you've got this kris kobach guy shooting off his mouth and then

this general claiming that he was offered a job for defense secretary, which i don't know if that's even true or not. and then going to the press. what's wrong with these people? >> it's strange. >> what a breach of protocol. let's talk about keane and giuliani. we're talking about the breech of protocol here. >> maybe donald's way of tweeting things out we've come to a new age. gosh, in the old age you never breathe a word of any of that stuff. >> it's possible they all -- >> what would they gain? >> credit for having offered the job. >> his wife just passed away. married for 50 years. that has really taken him out of any kind of consideration for public office.

he's told that to friends and now said it publicly in the last few days. >> was he offered the job though? >> he was in serious consideration. >> trump has a way of talking to you and making you feel like he's saying something that he really isn't. that's part of it. maybe keane was reading into donald's attempts and often successful ones to flatter which he's capable of doing. >> top of the hour. you're watching "morning joe" on this monday, november 21st. we're speaking with "the new york times" jeremy peters. managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. former chairman of the national republican committee and governor of pennsylvania, ed rendell. and robert costa. a lot of talk that president-elect trump hosted these 21 meetings over the weekend. among the people who came yesterday was rudy giuliani who spent quite some time there. if he is still in the mix for a top position, the former new

york city mayor would face a long list of questions especially on capitol hill about potential conflicts of interest. giuliani has been dogged by questions raised by his business career as far back as 2008 when he sought the republican national convention. in 2016, he collected $16 million from both consulting work and the number of paid speeches. according to "the new york times," that year giuliani earned $10 million from 108 speeches he delivered in 11 different countries. in one single month in 2006, he gave 20 speeches alone. and according to "the wall street journal," giuliani regularly appeared at events for an iranian opposition group known as the mek. >> this is where our worlds collide. it was on the terror list until hillary clinton --

>> the person -- crooked hillary. >> became secretary of state. >> did she give a speech? maybe she wanted to give a speech. maybe bill clinton wanted to give a speech so she took them off the terror group. >> this is what people clue into saying they don't want in washington anymore. >> is donald going to call rudy giuliani crooked rudy now or terror taking money from former terrorist groups rudy giuliani. >> rudy out front. he's always out in front of the president-elect embarrassing him out in front talking about everything he's been offered. >> this is a political nightmare for republicans if he had to go through those hearings. >> there's a very strong chance he would not be confirmed. talking to people on capitol hill last week. that was a sense. if trump puts him up as secretary of state nominee would have the most difficult confirmation battle of anybody on trump's roster right now. >> it would be worse than jeff sessions, right? >> far worse than jeff sessions. at least jeff sessions gets the

customary senatorial courtesy. rudy giuliani doesn't get that. >> rudy would be a blood bath on the hill. >> no question. anything that donald would give rudy? donald does feel obligation to rudy because rudy was out there more than anything else. >> ed, he shouldn't tell him. rudy will go around telling everyone because he's out front. rudy out front. >> anything that rudy would be interested in short of secretary of state? >> not initially. boxed him in. >> that's the thing, mark. you just said it. it was such bad form. i got to tell you, i don't care if my mother wanted to be secretary of state and i could appoint her secretary of ste. if she went out and tried to box me in, mom, love you. see you at thanksgiving. that's the only time i'm going to -- you're not going to be working in my administration. you don't box people in like this. it was classless. it was a punk move. and you look at -- crooked hillary. forget it. crooked rudy.

he would get picked apart on capitol hill. and again, donald trump has selected steve bannon and he selected him for his reasons. he's already bled out for steve bannon. if he wants to see a real bleeding out, a real bleeding out, pick rudy giuliani as secretary of state and he'll be bleeding out politically. donald trump will for the next six months. >> and the confirmation questions we've just scratched the surface on things we've come up if rudy giuliani went through an fbi background check and there's more to his business dealings that hadn't been part of the discussion so far. >> like what? there's a lot there. as a reporter said, that shag carpet is deep. you start -- you start putting the shag carpet rake over it, which you have on just like me. a lot of stuff is going to come up. >> the way he's conducted

himself since he left public office is a robust enterprise. >> that's a polite way of saying -- forget crooked hillary. everyone is going to talk about crooked rudy and it will reflect back on donald trump. he doesn't owe rudy anything. rudy came to him after he had the nomination nailed when he was winning new york by 40 points. wouldn't even bring up his name early in the process. who do you think would win? wouldn't bring up donald trump's name. do you want to bleed out politically for the next six months for a guy like that who like you said doesn't even get confirmed in the senate at the end. >> yet his name is still under consideration. i don't think we should count rudy giuliani out at all. there were two people -- >> he was there for four hours. i'm sure he wouldn't leave yesterday. >> there are two people that trump and his inner circle said could have a pick of any job they wanted. that was jeff sessions and rudy

giuliani. obviously trump has been rattled by disclosures. >> i heard that before that list was reduced to jeff sessions after giuliani went out saying i'm not taking ag position. i'll only take state. >> when you say he doesn't owe him anything, i will say in the last three months of the campaign no one worked harder publicly and internally for donald trump than rudy giuliani. he was in the headquarters, sleeves rolled up working hard. >> do you turn over a position the guy is ill equipped to handle to be loyal when it will cost you politically. >> worst thing you can do. >> you've done this before. give advice to donald trump. >> the worst thing you can do is to reward the people who were in your campaign with positions in government that they're not suited for. it's not helping them in the long run. it's certainly not helping you. >> you had to make a lot of tough choices in your career. >> tough choices. my cabinet when i became governor seven out of ten people

i never met before until i got elected. >> if he's really down to romney and giuliani, one path leads to a national celebration in the elite class. a sigh of relief. a signal to capitol hill. the other leads to extraordinary confrontation. other symbolism. one guy you reward someone who called you a con man. the other side you're rewarding someone who showed you great loyalty. >> you also though are showing how big you are as a man. >> no question. >> you show that you understand the gravity of the position. >> do you understand the gravity of the position? are you going to reward somebody like great leaders have done in the past? ronald reagan did this with james baker who tried to defeat him twice. the question is do you reward -- show everybody how big you are or do you go to a hinchman who wasn't even with you at the beginning and is right now has some so many foreign interests

that he's going have to answer for that you're going to bleed out for six months only to not get appointed anyway. >> the irony is which one would show him in the office more loyalty and be a better soldier to carry out? mitt romney. >> it's not even close. mitt romney would be more loyal -- does anybody around this table even think for a second that if you had to choose between rudy giuliani or mitt romney that mitt romney would be more loyal and disciplined when he's getting off a plane in china than rudy giuliani? >> 100%. >> who would shoot his mouth off and not only embarrass the president but the united states of america. he has no discipline anymore. maybe he did one day. him going out and shooting his mouth off, jeremy, the way he has, shows that if he doesn't have the discipline now, what makes us think he'll have discipline when he's two years older? >> there are enough people around in trump's inner circle about whom there will be serious

questions of judgment, of comments on racial issues and issues of religion. you add into that rudy giuliani who has his own past, especially with the african-american community, there's potential for a lot of dredged up animus there. >> no doubt about it. >> we should take a look at him speaking out of school with all of this in mind. we're pulling that tape. we'll have that in just a bit. the man that trump tapped for attorney general, senator jeff sessions, is facing skepticism from some democrats like senator cory booker and senator chuck schumer but also from some conservative republicans. congressman justin amash tweeting over the weekend.

sessions had an appointment as a federal district judge torpedoed in the 1980s over accusations of racially charged comments. a former federal prosecutor testified that he chatted with sessions about shocking comments by a judge and the judge called a prominent white lawyer a disgrace to his race for representing black clients. well, mr. sessions replied according to testimony, maybe he is. and "the new york times" reports one african-american prosecutor testified that mr. sessions had called him boy and joked that he thought that the ku klux klan was okay until i found out they smoked pot. sessions did dispute calling the man boy. >> let's talk about this, bob costa. obviously this has been talked about before a good bit. do you know of any republicans

that are going to bolt from jeff sessions or does this look like this is pretty much going to pass on party lines? >> it looks like the latter. speaking to top senators, they say sessions is part of the club. he also has a pr operation. some conservative groups, trump transition putting out a lot of messages about sessions' work in terms of his time as a u.s. attorney prosecuting different hate groups. this is an appointee that trump and his people really seem to want and are prepared to execute on and working the capitol to make sure those votes are there. >> they will go to the mat. no doubt about it. they'll go to the mat for jeff sessions who fought from the beginning and does have a career going afterate groups and certainly gives his supporters a lot more to work with than say

rudy giuliani. >> for sure. again, you can't underestimate senate majority and importance of that. jeff flake was one who they might have been concerned about. the senator from arizona in favor of sessions. i believe if he has a strong performance when he testifies and explains past statements in a more thorough way and shows his heart in an open way than he did when he failed to be confirmed for judgeship, he'll be confirmed. they need to manage it. it's all up to him. he needs to show people he wants to be attorney general for the entire country with equal protection of the law and remorse for speaki ining imprecy and joking about things that are not joking matters. >> joining us now, nbc news correspondent hallie jackson. what does the trump transition team have planned for today? >> reporter: well, one of the more notable meetings today rick perry headed to new york. he's going to meet with donald trump today in trump towers. part of this series of transition interviews.

speculation that governor perry is considered for one of the cabinet positions. comes after the weekend you're talking about which was great apparently as donald trump said 23 times describing every meeting as some variation of the word great. presumably that will continue today. we're expecting it to be from what one top aide is telling nbc news a huge day. presumably that may mean some sort of announcement coming out about another top level or cabinet level position. it comes as we're getting news that melania trump and barron trump, their 10-year-old son will not move to the white house right away. this was a question of how often was donald trump going to return to new york? how often would melania trump end up in washington? we have answers to that. the family will move to d.c. after barron trump finishes out the school year at his manhattan school. you will not see the entire first family move into the white house right away.

now, mika, months ago when you smoke with melania trump, she talked how she wouldn't be on the campaign trail because her priority was staying hope and taking care of her son. that's a priority she's continuing clearly through the beginning at least of the trump administration. the president-elect said this weekend that in fact after the school year is finished he would see barron trump move in and melania trump into the white house. an aide says they are excited and understand the gravity of moving into the white house but want to give stability to barron. sensitivity to pulling him out of school in the middle of the year. he, by the way, is 10 years old. same age that malia obama was when her father was inaugurated. presidential historians point to two other times when the first lady didn't move in right away. both in the 1800s. >> you've had experience through the years of seeing from time to time just how close the relationship was between melania and her son and how hands on it

was as far as her being engaged with him personally and not having all of this help around doing this other stuff. that she -- this makes -- for people that know about their relationship as mother and father to a son, this is not surprising to anybody. >> barron is her number one job and sees it that way and takes it very seriously. as you said, hands-on on many levels with him. doesn't want to just rip him out of new york. i can imagine that would be kind of -- the whole thing is very hard on a family. i think they have the ability to do this. new york and washington is not like, you know, it week some sort of transatlantic commute. but donald is also very close to barron. that will be hard. he's very -- believe it or not, he's very engaged. if you look at all of the trump kids, these things don't happen out of nowhere.

very good parents. it will be interesting to see how this pans out. still ahead on "morning joe," ben joins us live. he was not impressed by one famous federalist on friday. we'll talk to him about the controversial after-show performance of "hamilton." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. the pursuit of healthier. it begins from the second we're born. because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by

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>> we had a guest in the audience this weekend. mr. pence, i see you're leaving. vice president-elect pence, we truly tha you for joining us here. we really do. we, sir, we are the diverse america who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us. our children, our parents, defend us and uphold our rights,

sir. we hope this show has inspired you to uphold our american values and work on behalf of all of us. all of us. [ applause ] >> my daughter and i and her cousins really enjoyed the show. "hamilton" is an incredible production. when we arrived, we heard a few boos and we heard some cheers and i nudged my kids and reminded them that's what freedom sounds like. i wasn't offended by what was said. i'll leave to others whether it was the appropriate venue to say it. >> mr. trump, on hamilton some people want a boycott of the musical. do you have a comment on that? >> it's okay with me. >> wow. wow. we're already talking about it. joining us from capitol hill, ben, you had reaction to this over the weekend. we'll start with you. >> interesting to just see this play out in the way that it did. frankly as someone that saw " m

"hamilt "hamilton" for the first time and was touched by it, i remember looking out of the theater afterwards seeing a young high school girls who paid to have standing room only tickets wheeeping at the end of the musical saying can you believe this is what really happened? i think that what was sad in reaction to vice president mike pence, you took something that's been a uniting force in bringing together a lot of different americans of different perspectives politically to appreciate our history and to appreciate the founding generation and what it went through in order to create our country and turn it into unfortunately an expression of partisanship and rejection and assumption on part of the cast that pence was there as representative of someone that made them alarmed and anxious in with regard to their rights and way they would be treated instead of something that would unite us all. disappointing because of that. >> jeremy peters, help me out here. i tweeted that i was embarrassed

for my party. i didn't like it for a lot of reasons. i thought it was way off base. what's your gut personally? >> i think there's two ways you can handle this. one is the way that they did, which i think a lot of people felt was self-righteous and condescending and ultimately divisive. and then the way that president obama has reached out to trump and trump supporters and said, look, we're in this together. if you succeed, we all succeed. so let's just kind of put the election behind us and try to make this all work. that's a much more unifying message. you can, i think -- what this episode illustrated more than anything else is the way that both sides of the political divide are completely talking past one another and don't really understand one another. the same people that came out and said on the conservative side this is an outrage and disgrace. shouldn't have done this and people on the left who said i

can't believe this. the cast owes him an apology are just not understanding where the other is coming from. >> again, still, i mean, now weeks from this election we probably should be looking at that and, you know, just being a family member of someone who was always approached in washington all the time and sometimes not in the best way, for vice president-elect's daughter and cousins, that's a scary experience. when you pinpoint the family and make the family feel singled out and you don't let the family leave the room and you have hundreds of people, many of them booing all around you with only three exits and then the cast lecturing you, you create a very uncomfortable potentially dangerous situation and you are now promulgating the very problem that put us in this situation instead of actually doing something that might be helpful. how about send him a letter. how about publish the letter that you send him. how about finding other ways to express our differences and our concerns without doing something

like that. i thought it was really a poor move. bob costa, what about the different reactions between vice president-elect pence who was, i think, brilliant in his response because he just actually showed them how they should have been. and then trump himself. which i think was actually they were in tandem. >> i've covered steve bannon for a few years now. i think when you think about bannon watching all of this from trump tower and trump himself, this is what they want. new york, d.c., controversy. all of these people discussing hamilton. drama. the grassroots. flyover country versus cities. this is trump strategy 101. enter a confrontational zone. embrace the drama. embrace the public theater. have a fight. >> so ben, i guess to an extent

if this is what trump wanted, it didn't really get the reaction that the cast wanted. >> i think that this cast probably thought they were sending a different message than the way that it came across. for a lot of americans, you know, it's funny. i rewatched the 2011 white house correspondents dinner where president obama and seth myers were making fun of donald trump which has been reported as the point where he decided he wanted to run for president. >> that's what i thought when i watched it. >> the thing that's funny when you watch it now is looking back there's something subtle going on there. there's actually something that basically allowed donald trump to turn around and say to a huge swath of americans, they don't think about you with any respect either. he could connect with them because of that. i think that's what something like what the cast did the other night really conveys that they don't really respect us. they don't view us as being equally american. they view us with disdain.

i think that does play into the hands of as bob was saying, a lot of people who would like to play up that kind of conflict. the unfortunate part is i think that the cast would have been a lot better off looking to president obama as someone who has really conveyed a lot of this coming together who has brought a lot of americans who i think have been skeptical about donald trump to say we have to give him a chance and wait and see. >> so the left overcorrecting like that is the -- leads to the very thing which is kind of showing that they weren't -- if you think of the "snl" when kate mckinnon turned into a funeral service "saturday night live" opened and it was a dead serious funeral service. i think that's where you lose -- it's only funny when we're winning. it's only funny when it's going well for us. i didn't think that's how things went. we need to understand sometimes when we've lost and we've got to be able to laugh and we've got to be able to accept the other

side, no? >> donald trump doesn't like "saturday night live" much anymore. he attacked them over the weekend. >> that's because alec baldwin came back as trump. >> i think mike pence had a reputation amongst people on the left as being intolerant figure and some of the stuff he did in finn fostered that. but yesterday and throughout this campaign he's been both within the republican party and to a wider audience a much more unifying and calming figure than donald trump has been. >> something to watch. >> you put "hamilton" with "saturday night live" on one hand and then you've got a lot of other things happening with donald trump. you got the fraud lawsuit settlement. all of these controversy surrounding his possible appointees. the republicans, they don't mind the culture war. they win in their minds when it's the culture war. it's better than talking about the details. >> trump u settlement this weekend, i guess president-elect said he didn't have time.

>> right. this is what he is so great at doing. misdirecting and diverting. look over here while something is exploding over here. i think while we criticize the cast of hamilton for its approach here, it's also correct to point out that trump himself has not exactly been somebody who has fostered unification and kumbaya. >> coming up, getting to the bottom of steve bannon, the chief strategist of donald trump one of the main complaints from democrats about the new administration. the hollywood reporter's michael wolfe joins us ahead with his new profile. we're back in a moment. whether it's connecting one of the world's most innovative campuses.

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up next, an incredible report from on the ground in haiti where there is a full blown health crisis. more than a month after hurricane matthew hit the island nation. we're back with that in just a moment.

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>> in places like the asia pacific before that order existed, you routinely saw famines of millions of people.

not just concerned about low wages but people dying because they didn't have any food. or drinking water or died of cholera or simple diseases if somebody had some penicillin. >> that was president obama in peru yesterday reflecting on the role america plays in providing leadership and order around the globe but the president's example of battling cholera is facing a real test in haiti where the island nation is still reeling in the wake of hurricane matthew. dr. dave campbell and our own louis licawent there. >> we landed in port-au-prince and made our way five hours south to one of the hardest hit areas.

julie was on the ground when matthew hit. >> there was no food and there were dead animals on the side of the road and people having to resort to the state where they were needing to eat those animals. food insecurity if it's starting at this level, what will it look like? >> this is it. this is the bridge. this is where it all happened. this bridge washed away in hurricane matthew essentially cutting off the southern end of this very long peninsula from all communication, all food, water and supplies. >> four hours later we make it. they work late into the night preparing equipment and supplies. at sunrise, we go to ground zero. the villages hardest hit by matthew's wrath. >> you can feel the love you're going to give out today. >> absolutely. >> it looks like a sand blaster

blew through here. we started to see more and more trees knocked down. palm trees completely decapitated. i live in palm beach county. this is like the other side of the world but we're only 90 minutes out of miami. cholera is the big fear on this island. >> on the way, a never ending line of decimated towns. the only thing that remains untouched by the storm are the headstones that line a nearby cemetery. we finally reach the village. quickly sets up the clinic in one of the only homes left standing. its owner sheltered over 500 people here when matthew struck. >> it wases s so high. the wind was so high. we would be dead. >> this makeshift clinic already has over 100 people desperate for doctors. >> we are watching a cholera clas

you have a suspected case of cholera that showed up. she's dehydrated. the veins start to collapse and make it difficult to start an i.v. catheter. there's no choice. this iv has to go in and it has to go in now. >> this is a case that prompt treatment will help this lady get through this episode. nearby a woman shows me what remains of her home. she and her five children still live here. >> the whole community knew matthew was coming and went into the church but unfortunately the church crashed on top of them. >> she tells me they lost five people in the collapse and now with no money and resources they returned to their homes to pick up pieces and figure out what to do next. 20 miles away, food deliveries are looted by protesters. road blocks, fires, violence,

desperation. >> we'll put the cameras down because we absolutely don't want to draw attention to ourselves. we're forced to change course and take shelter in an orphanage. former navy chaplain took uses in and tried to explain the challenges. >> they had 15 put aside for us. we went in today. the people who had been there every day for the last five days outside the gate waiting for crumbs to fall off the table and not getting anything and it just got to the point where they got frustrated and it turned violent. the difference this time that people are asking me why is god not with us? i've never heard that before. i think this is beyond what they even ever expected could happen. it's just so much. it's going to last for a long time. >> the laughter and energy of the children was in stark

contrast to what laid just beyond the walls of the orphanage. i heard a lot on this trip about the strength of the haitian people. i've seen it for myself in the eyes of the patients at the clinic. and the doctors and nurses on the ground. and in the families struggling to pick up the pieces. even the strongest patient needs help sometimes. it's clear that people of haiti need our help now, maybe more than ever. >> that's saying a lot. >> dr. dave campbell is with us along with lewis and michael. dave, you have been all over the world. you have seen bad situations. what is so stunning to me is upon your return from haiti, you said this is the worst conditions you've ever seen human beings live in, and to put in perspective for people

watching, the flight from america to those scenes is about the same distance from new york to washington d.c. it's that close. people cut off from relief. cut off from anything. >> they are cut off even within their own country let alone cut off from the international community. bridges were washed away. the ability to get a truck from the capital, which was relatively spared to this big long peninsula of farmland ended. >> you said ships can't come in and bring relief because they would be overrun. why are people starving to ket? why are people not being treated right now? >> this hurricane disaster actually hit the farmland so the bread basket of the country was

decimated. they have no seeds to plant for the next several months crop harvest. >> no relief aid getting in. >> it's getting in but it's trickling in and some of the food relief causes issues. medical relief, safe water relief and shelter is a little less of an issue down there. >> these pictures, what are we looking at here and did you find any area that wasn't completely decimated? >> no. as you leave port-au-prince and you go west and south, it just gets worse and worse and worse. what you begin to realize is that these people wake up to this every single day. every single morning worrying about whether or not they'll have clean water for their children, food for their children and even the father at the orphanage i said do you have a stockpile of foodor a month? he said we're lucky if we can get through next week. >> and then if you have too

much, it's dangerous. >> exactly. he had security. he's got people out there unfortunately with shotguns and stuff trying to keep his place safe. the situation is so desperate now that it's a real challenge to get relief to the people that need it the most starving to death this morning. >> it's very difficult. on the other hand, you know, groups like ours have high quality teams that your team met down there doing great work and are getting relief to remote places. we have three mobile medical teams that are dispatched out every day to communities that need help that have no other access to health care. we've seen 6,000 patients or more that just need that care. we've been able to distribute medicines and supplies to lots of hospitals and clinics. it is possible to do this and get the relief there that's needed but you have to know what you're doing. >> you said that you were made an unexpected trip to that

orphanage that we saw and it's because there was a safety issue. >> the problem that we encountered was the food desperation created by near starvation conditions caused the shipments of food coming off ships on barges into the port city to cause this unrest and we literally felt it unsafe to go through that area of unrest. there's only one street that goes right through the port city. >> incredible. all right. thank you all. >> how do americans help? >> please. we need people to help haiti. a big need there. go to our website americares.org. learn what we're doing and how to respond. we need help. >> you saw that orphanage featured you can get access to at freethekids.org.

>> the team is incredible. you can't say enough. >> i have done an air lift to haiti in 1992. you guys have been there on the ground since the late '80s. >> if you know what you're doing, you can get relief work done and we're doing that. once a businessman always a businessman? concerns that donald trump will have hard time giving up his business empire now that he's president. "morning joe" is back in a moment. not getting your best sleep?

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all right. president-elect trump met with last week with three indian business partners who are -- have a building that is a trump branded luxury apartment complex near mumbai. the meeting raises questions about how trump will keep his business dealings separate from his government work. once he's in the white house. a trump organization spokesman labeled the meeting a courtesy call, yet the three executives have been quoted in indian newspapers as saying they discussed expanding their partnership with the trump organization now that trump is president-elect. meanwhile, the "washington post" reports the newly opened trump international hotel in washington invited representatives from local embassies to the hotel after the election to encourage them to use it when leaders from their countries visit washington.

one asian diplomat said, quote, why wouldn't i stay at his hotel blocks from the white house so i can tell the president i love your new hotel. isn't is rude to say i'm staying at your competitor? meanwhile, vice president-elect mike pence pledged trump will keep proper separation between his business empire and the oval office. >> should employees of the trump businesses be involved at all in the people's business, in government business, meetings? >> well, i think during this transition, it's very helpful. >> how about during the presidency? >> for the president-elect -- well, i think during the presidency, there will be the proper separation. john, what i can assure you and all of your viewers is that all of the laws pertaining to his business dealings and his service as president of the united states will be strictly adhered to. i promise you president-elect donald trump is today and president donald trump after

january 20th will be completely focused on the people's business and he'll leave his business life in the past. >> joining us from washington, award-winning author and nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. have we seen conflicts or had situations like this ever before? >> we have never seen anything like this before, mika, all in sorts of ways. i think mike pence said it perfectly. i would suggest that we put him in charge of making sure that thebe business does not get mix up with government. usually in the past, at least in modern times, you had a situation like john kennedy in 1961, had a lot of money from his father. this was put in a pliend trust. he had no idea what stocks his money was invested in so someone couldn't say, you know, you're getting involved in a war, for instance, that might increase the stock you're invested in. richard nixon in 1968 took a different approach. he said i don't have all that

much money compared to someone like kennedy. i'm just going to put it in houses and no one can doubt that -- question my decision making as president as being influenced by something like that. wendell wilke was the only person woo was sort of remotely like donald trump in that he didn't have political experience when he was nominated in 1940. he was head of a big public utility. he leaned over backwards. he actually resigned from the utility at the time he was nominated. didn't even wait until the election. >> joe, i could see how this could become complicated and that the white house, the trump white house would be constantly inundated with questions of conflicts because you have obviously outside business interests, and then you have family members rubbing it who show up at events like when the japanese came to visit, you know, that are there because they're family but they run business. >> nothing that can get an elected leader indicted faster or have ethical charges thrown

against them faster than any economic improprieties. and donald trump's biggest challenge, mark halperin, is knowing donald, he shoots from the hip. when you're in business, you can shoot from the hip. you can be a fabulist and do this and that and say, well, it's going to work out in the end. here, there are ethical codes that are on the books and there all legal codes on the books. i mean, you look at the former governor of virginia. his life was destroyed over a rolex watch. >> right. >> we're dealing with much bigger things. i really fear, mark halperin, unless he has somebody that donald trump will listen to, this is going to be a massive problem for him. >> white house counsel should step up and do this now. my biggest worry about it is one lesson donald trump learned from the campaign, he can get away with stuff. >> you can't get away with this, though. >> i agree with you, but i think the presidential candidate can get away with stuff that the

president kaement. he should have a counsel that looks at this and doesn't just adhere to the law. goes the extra mile. >> bob costa, if you shoot from the hip, sorry to bring it up, when i got elected to congress, rachel, who was then my chief of staff, said i'm going to bring someone over here who is the toughest person. mary said you're going to hate me, but you will never be in the newspapers over any financial improprieties because there are a lot of different accounts. on a bigger level, this is complex, and he's already stumbled. it will get you arrested if you're not -- if you're not extraordinarily careful and draw those bright lines. >> you could argue the most important selection in the coming weeks for donald trump is white house counsel. who is going to be here with him in the white house to say you can't cross this line? i mean, that's always been the question with trump. covering him for a couple years, who can actually speak candidly to the president-elect and say

to him, your family, they can do this and that, but they can't do this. >> there's nobody right now, andia know it. we all know it. there's nobody right now that can tell donald trump you can't do that. and have him say okay. jeremy, and again, we're talking about a complex -- >> someone who knows the ethical challenges. >> the ethical rules and legal rules that you turn around and you end up and suddenly you're indicted. >> part of the problem is the one person who can speak to him candidly like that is a family member, his son-in-law. i kndon't know that's the perp u want in this position. >> michael, you have talked about the historic challenges, but expound little bit on what you heard here. >> i agree with exactly what you said, joe. you have a global business here. you know, all sorts of people all over the world. the chance that he would get through four years without some conversation, even in some foreign country, being able to be reported on and cited as an

example of an improper mixture of government and business, you know, it just doesn't occur to me that he would find that chance worthwhile enough to take. and i assume if he does get a great white house counsel, and i think president obama, didn't he, when he met with donald trump, said one of the most important things you can do is get someone who is really excellent in that job. that person is going to basically say, you have got to find some consistent way of making sure that you're not in this kind of political danger. >> all right, michael beschloss, thank you so much. >> in the next hour of "morning joe" starts right now. >> mitt romney is here. >> really, okay. send him in please. >> hello, mr. president-elect. thank you for taking the time to meet with me. >> romney, so good of you to come.

>> this isn't going to work, is it? >> i don't think so. >> great. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's monday, november 21st. it's almost thanksgiving. hope you're ready. 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. out west, and back with us, we have on the set manager editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin. political reporter for the "washington post," robert costa, and former chair of the democratic national committee, former governor of pennsylvania, the great -- >> the great. >> ed rendell. president-elect trump hosted 21 meetings over the weekend at his golf club in bedminster, new jersey. yesterday, he and mike pence both met with rudy giuliani and chris christie.

>> and other things. and other things. >> is there a place for governor christie in your administration? >> he's a very talented man. great guy. thank you. >> what's one of the qualities about chris christie that stands out to you? >> any qualities. including smart and tough. see you later. >> okay. so if rudy giuliani is still in the mix for a top position, the former new york city mayor would face a long list of questions over potential conflicts of interest. giuliani has been dogged by questions raised by his business career as far back as 2008 when he sought the republican presidential nomination. for instance, in 2006, giuliani collected $16 million from both consulting work and a number of paid speeches. according to the "new york times," that year, giuliani earned $10 million from 108 speeches he delivered in 11 different countries. in one single month in 2006, he

gave 20 speeches alone. >> in foreign countries. you know the good thing is, though, you can do the whole crooked hillary, crooked giuliani thing. at least he never got money, right, from terror groups or anything like that? former terror groups. >> he got -- he did get some. >> from terrorist groups? because then, i mean, what would he -- what would he put on his name tag? secretary of state terror taking money grabber giuliani. i don'tthening you can fit that. can you fit that on the placket at the state department? >> part of why we haven't seen the selection yet. >> probably why. because he took money from terrorist groups? >> they're doing the background. and they're doing the discussion about what the pick would actually mean, what's the consequence of it politically for these exact reasons. >> what we don't know is if the senate is going to hold legitimate hearings. >> what do you mean? >> republican-controlled senate committees have a choice. do they doerally hearings with

real questions. a lot of democrats to ask questions or just rush his nomination through. you don't know. >> you have chris coback, too, who is just a political nitmare for republicans in the long run. and i think they do conduct real hearings. you have people like bob corker, people like jeff flake. you have people like lamar alexander. you have enough people to kill giuliani as secretary of state, certainly enough people to kill chrkris kobach for dhs secretarf he's talking about muslim registries and the other extreme things he's talking ability. >> i was at the capitol late last week talking to some senators. my sense is let's say for secretary of state, those hearings will also discuss steve bannon. they'll also discuss general flynn -- >> that's the problem. >> they don't get confirmation hearings for those white house positions. democrats want to flesh out some of the biographies. >> it's -- this is why -- >> it's not good. >> see, and ed rendell, this is

why somebody like mitt romney calms the waters. >> absolutely. >> it's an establishment pick. if you put somebody like rudy giuliani who stirs up the water, you're not only talking about giuliani. let's write these down. then people will bring up steve bannon. they're going to bring up what kobach has said. they're going to bring up what sessions has said and flynn. they're going to bring up what flynn has said in there. >> and taking money. >> and taking money from the russians. and being as tight sitting next to vladimir putin. right now, this administration to be is on the precipice. >> okay. >> it can pick people like general mattis and mitt romney and move this in one direction. or they can pick hinchman who have taken money from terror groups in the past. former terrorists groups on that side. and if they go that direction, the giuliani/kobach way, it's

going to be a meltdown, and all we're going to be hearing about is steve bannon, flynn and his tweets about jews, his retweets about jews. sessi sessions. >> he exposes everyone he's chosen if he goes too far into the trenches. and i tell you, the giuliani hire, take bannon off the list because he's not -- >> no, no. >> none of these are even close to being great minds in terms of world affairs. not even close. not even close. >> but what we're saying is, though, this is again, if you say i'm going to pick mitt romney and i'm going to pick general mattis, suddenly, you go up there and you're a good treasury secretary appick away from having a good cabinet. >> let's say this. if you get mitt romney, general mattis, and jamie dimond, this other stuff, they let it through.

if you pick rudy giuliani, kris kobach, and another hinchman that helped run your campaign at treasury who is really not up to the task of being secretary of treasury. >> i think you put our country at risk if you do that. >> there is a meltdown. there will be a meltdown. this is the thing that people coming in don't understand. i want a big -- bill clinton didn't recover for two years over a bad transition. >> and the base does not care about who these people are. they care about policy. so give us the good people. reassure the country. base will take care of itself with the policy. >> do not extort your administration bleeding out. we bleed out for kris kobach. why bleed out for rudy giuliani? how about glun -- how about general kelly. you put general kelley at dhs, general mattis at the pentagon. you put mitt romney at secretary

of state. and if he really is still going after jamie dimond, put him at treasury. you still need women. you still need minorities. you still -- but as far as just pure resume and calming the waters, that's at least a lot less of a battle on capitol hill. >> it's true. one of the discussions that's difficult right now for the trump transition is if you have someone at dhs, you have to have someone who can work with senator sessions as a.g. to actually enforce this hard-line immigration policy that trump ran on. there seems to be no move to de distance themselves from the building of the wall, from the deportation, limited immigration. that seems to be one of the main driving forces. >> you know, it's easier to get there if that's what they decide they want to try to do with somebody like a general kelley than a kris kobach who will cause a pleading out politically for six months.

what i don't understand. i know you make your promises, but good good, qualified people around you, and he's got some really good names that are come in front of him this weekend. but there's still a couple really disturbing things. >> i just -- i can't imagine that he would pick rudy giuliani after the guy ran his mouth. got out in front of him. started talking about how he's going to get the job and how he turned down attorney general. it would show that this president-elect has absolutely no understanding of the gravity of the job he has and they're sitting there in the runt count club laughing, chuckling, and one of them drinking a lot. and i'm serious. and i'm serious. it's not funny. it would be a dangerous, bad pick. i don't have to agree with everybody trump picks. obviously, the isis not my team, but there are bright minds on the republican side that could help him run the country and keep us safe. that's not one of them. >> if you talk to anybody in new york city that knows rudy

giuliani through the years, and i'll just say this myself and not throw this to anybody else, it's one of these things everybody says off camera, i'm going to tell it to you on camera especially if this guy may still be considered as secretary of state. even people close to trump say rudy giuliani mentally is a few steps slower than he was several years ago. and everybody that knows the guy says he is not up to the job of secretary of state. the question is, whether the guy he is shaking hands with right now is the only one in america that doesn't know rudy giuliani is not up to this position. he's not qualified for this position. he doesn't know foreign policy. and it would be a disastrous pick. he has some great choices out there. and we don't know what he's going to do. despite what some people may say, he hasn't told us what he's going to do. >> oh, yeah. we saw that. >> but i do know he spoke with mitt romney. i do know that that would be a

great way to calm the waters. >> and there's many other names and there's 60 days. joe mentioned kris kobach, kansas secretary of state, met with trump on sunday. kobach was one of the architects of the well-known arizona immigration law. parts of which were struck down by the supreme court. he was also a proponent on self-deportation approach to undocumented immigrants. that mitt romney famously supported during his run for president. kobach was also behind a 2013 kansas law requiring voters to provide documents like birth certificates or u.s. passport when registering to vote for the first time. a u.s. appeals court blocked it. he told reuters last week he's been part of transition conference calls for weeks. and that they're pursuing plans for a border wall, potentially without congressional approval. and according to reuters, quote, to implement trump's call for extreme vetting of some muslim immigrants, kobach said the immigration policy group could

recommend the reinstatement of a national registry of immigrants. kobach helped design a program that included cataloging people from countries deemed higher risk in the wake of the september 11th attacks, but the federal government abandoned that program in 2011. >> mark halperin, again, more red meat for the base, but how much red meat does the base need? and at what point are we going to be having bloody political foits on the hill for six months when donald trump actually should be moving forward with his programs? >> if there's one issue he ran on, it's this. it's control of the border. and again, this goes back to, there's so many unknowns about how this will work. there are a lot of republican members of congress who aren't going to allow encroachments on civil liberties and a lot of republicans ask for specifics of how you build a wall and get mexico to pay for it. i don't have any doubt he will aggressively in the first six months try to --

>> right, but you tell me, is kris kobach going to lead to a political blood bath on capitol hill in confirmation hearings as dhs secretary versus general kelley? >> again, i said before, a big unknown is how seriously will republicans and majority in the senate scrutinize and potentially vote against or ask tough questions of his nominees. >> bob costa. >> mark's right. trump ran on the jeff sessions/kris kobach immigration policy. we can't be surprised that these people are up for consideration for cabinet posts. >> right. >> that wing of the party has won the white house. if anyone was paying attention, it's exactly what they ran on. >> right. >> kris kobach is the architect of that whole wing of party going back to the arizona law. and i think when i was talking to house members and senators, their sense is trump is going to give them what they want on corporate tax reform, give them

what they want on the aca, on regulations. if he wants to go do the border, they're going to have to give him something on that because that's what he ran on. >> right. so do you think on -- again, i hate to be the bearer of bad news for republicans, but i have been through a few of these things. ed, you have been through a few of these things. if you have kris kobach up there talking about a muslim registry, and you have jeff sessions' past quotes and rudy giuliani getting all of this money looking like hillary clinton, getting all this money from foreign -- a combination of hillary clinton and bill clinton, getting all of this money, showing horrible judgment from foreign countries in speeches. that's right out of the, quote, crooked hillary playbook. and then you have all of steve bannon's quotes. and then you have general flynn retweeting no jews, you're not going to get away with it this time, jews. and all of the conspiracy theories and the sharia law conspiracy theories he's

propagating. ed, just so when we're here in july of 2017, just like we predicted trump was going to win, i mean, just stop for a second, everybody. god. i mean, we can tell you what this is going to look like. it's going to be a bloodbath. just like we told you trump was going to win the primaries, like we told you he could win the general election. we will still be fighting if he puts all of these people up and doesn't put up some people that calm the waters. we're going to be having bloodbaths into july of 2017 on the hill. >> and the shame of it is, it's really unnecessary. those guys in western pennsylvania, those democrats who voted for donald trump, they want economic change. they want jobs. they don't care about kobach. they don't care about -- >> right. >> they don't even care about the wall. you think anybody really cares about the wall? i think most people know the wall is a joke. what is he talking about, a fence now?

>> parts. >> a wall/fence combo. >> combo. i agree with you. no reason for this. >> that's what i'm saying. don't distract. don't distract. if you can get general kelley running dhs, then why get somebody who's a flame thrower? and shooting his mouth off, by the way, just like rudy giuliani, about what's going on during the transition. can't anybody keep their mouths shut? >> i haven't lost hope. >> why do they run to the press? yeah, we talked about -- >> oh, my god. that's crazy. >> we keep saying who should he pick for dhs? a lot of people have reservations about taking that position because you have to enforce this trump immigration policy. you're going to have your fingerprints on the trump wall. and that's -- >> a lot of people we could see. >> one of the things you overlook is, i mean, it's going to be a beautiful wall. >> okay. >> it's going to be a big,

beautiful wall, and there's going to be a big, beautiful door -- what? what? who wouldn't want their fingerprints on that wall? come on. then the mitt romney meeting. that would be great. i think, personally. >> there are many more. >> that would calm the waters. michelle rhee. >> that would be interesting. >> that would be something. that was good. general mattis, i think a lot of people i talked to were very happy about general mattis. not general, everybody is a general. but cia pick -- >> pompeo. >> getting a lot of positive remarks. >> another kansasen. >> yeah, positive marks from the military establishment. and mark, what else? >> i mean, as you said at the top, you need some diversity, and he needs to fill those other big cabinet jobs. if he does that well, i think he can get the personnel off to a good start. >> still ahead on "morning joe,"

who is steve bannon? opposed by some in the jewish community, praised by others. the hollywood reporter's michael wolff joins us with one of the most revealing profiles yet. >> plus, congressman keith ellison will join the table. will his vision shape the future of the democratic party? first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning, joe and mika. winter took over in a hurry. so much for our record warm november. snow storm and a blizzard throughout friday in minnesota. then moved into canada, and a new storm regenerated from it. we had all sorts of problems. these are pictures out of areas in minnesota and also out of new york wrewe had four fatalities over the weekend because of the snow-covered roads. the snow continues this morning. about 17, 18 inches in some of the small towns out of syracuse. binghamton, new york, has 15 inches of snow on the ground. only had 30 inches all of last winter. this is a rude awakening of what winter is typically like in upstate new york. an additional 1 to 3 in the

white. and 3 to 6 in the lake effect bands. that will taper off later on tonight. let's get into the travel forecast. we had rain in southern california, moving through arizona. middle of the country is fine. a cold start in the southeast. just fine this afternoon. then as we go towards tomorrow, which is when we're going to start to see the storm in arizona moving to the middle of the abocountry. shower break out in the middle of the day. if any airports have trouble on tuesday, they'll be in the heartland. the west coast and east coast look okay. wednesday, they call this the busiest travel day of the year, that's when we'll watch this storm moving into the great lakes and ohio valley with rain and some showers in new england for that macy's parade on thursday. overall, no horrible storms out there. the worst tof is actually now with all that snow in areas of new england and upstate new york. this is syracuse, new york. the first snow blowing day of many to come. they call it the snowiest city in the country. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. whether it's bringing cutting-edge wifi to 35,000 fans...

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joining us now, co-chair of the congressional progressive caucus, democratic congressman keith ellison of minnesota. he's running for chairman of the democratic national committee. >> so let me ask you about the democratic party. obviously, one of the slowest points since the 1920s, almost a century. if you're running the party, how do things change? >> well, first, we put the power of the grassroots hands. we decentralizing power out of washington into the neighborhoods, into the community. we prioritize voter turnout. that was a big problem. we didn't have the turnout we needed. and then, of course, we promote collaboration between, you know, democrats all over the place. we have to work together more, but the most important thing is to help the american people understand the democratic party is their instrument for having a better life, that the democratic party is fighting every day for the working man and woman of the country. that's what we have to do. >> mark?

>> would you consider giving up your house seat to be chair? >> that's a fair conversation. it's too early to have that. what is the problem? why didn't we win? because we didn't have turnout. we need to get more turnout. we need to focus on what the problem is, which is we didn't have enough people coming to the polls for our side. i think governor rendell points out we lost the whole thing by about 1th00,000 votes in three states. if we focus on saolving the problem at hand, that's how we win. i'm an organizer and i also am very good at voter turnout. i got over 250,000 votes. i used to have the lowest voter turnout congressional district in minnesota. now i have the highest in minnesota. i want to take some of those turnout techniques, draw on other people's ideas, and help get people to the polls. you know, flint didn't even turn out well. >> no, it did not. >> they're still using bottled water. this is an outrage.

>> this is an example of where the democratic party is, where they're all talk, no real message and no real results. that's exactly what the flint story is. and chuck schumer said that the party doesn't have a message. i said the same thing for two years about hillary clinton's campaign. it was not a bold message that had a record. >> well, let me tell you. there was a lot of good work democrats did to try to bring attention to flint. but look, the governor still, you know, is still the guy who is hurting the people of flint. he's not -- >> but you can't go there and take the credit and drink the water and prop people up and walk away. >> you can't do that, but you also need cooperation on the other side of the table when those guys are in the majority. so the real thing is that people, when they are beleaguered in trying to figure out how to get a balth and a drink of water, voting might not be their top priority. we have to go to them, say if you vote in this election,

here's what you're going to get. we've got to be more laser beam focused on working class people's needs. i agree with you on that. >> we agree. >> keith, i agree that turnout is the key for us, but we have to get back some of the voters we lost. >> yeah. >> i think we have to do that in non-election years. we've got to have town meetings. we have to listen to their concerns. >> absolutely. >> if i was in charge of hillary's campaign, i would have had her out in those areas like she went to primary and got battered around, but they had respect for her. if she picked up five or ten in every one of those meetings, she would have picked up michigan. >> you have to get beat up. people have a right to ask your a question. one thing i learned in time, and you're an old hand at this, just because somebody is going to ask you a tough question in community meeting doesn't mean they're not for you. it means don't take it personally. take it seriously.

and listen to those folks. respect them. and respect them, and understand that this is america. this is a democracy. and everybody gets to have their say. >> all right. congressman keith ellison, always great to have you here. thank you so much for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> coming up on "morning joe," in transition. one top military leader passes on becoming secretary of defense. kristen welker has new reporting about who the next person could be to run the pentagon and how they would actually work with the national security adviser, michael flynn. we're back in just a moment.

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male vo: comcast. i just wanted to say that israel has no doubt that president-elect trump is a true friend of israel. we have no doubt that vice president elect mike pence is a true friend of israel. and we look forward to working with the trump administration, with all of the members of the trump administration, including steve bannon, in making the u.s.'s alliance with israel stronger than ever. >> thisbreitbart, essentially as the haven for the alt-right, a band of white supremacists who hate imgrounds, jews, muslims,

african-americans. anyone who doesn't comport to their notion of white supremacy. >> joining us now, that was the ceo of the anti-defamation league. before that, israel's ambassador to the u.s. speaking about steve bannon. joining us now, author and media columnist for the hollywood reporter, michael wolff. his new piece features an exclusive interview with bannon. among the topics discussed is power. darkness is good, says bannon, who amid the suits at trump tower looks like a gradual student in his t-shirt, open button-down, and tatty blazer, albeit, a 62-year-old graduate student. it only helps us when they, i believe by they, he means liberals in the media, already promoting calls for his ouster, get it wrong. when they're blind to who we are and what we're doing. like andrew jackson's populism, we're going to build an entirely new political movement, he says.

and michael joins us now. so good to have you onboard. explain the convoluted reactions we're getting to bannon. some saying hold on. he's a great guy. others saying, he should not be there at all. >> well, i think very few people are saying he's a great guy. i think most people -- >> i have heard a few people say that, just for the record, i have. >> i would certainly say that he is a remarkably intelligent guy, full of energy, and in fact, vision. i think the other reaction is coming because he kind of invites it. i think he has found it very helpful, i think the trump campaign, now administration or forthcoming administration, has found it helpful to create this sense of conflict. and i think for bannon's point that he's the soul of darkness

now is -- is that the media and liberals perceive him to be that. therefore, they miss what's really going on. and they miss the fact that the ump campaign was caught on fire, caught the imagination of the nation. >> yes, it did. jeremy peters, you spent time with bannon, spoke with him last week. did you see the soul of darkness? >> someone asked me to describe him the other day. just as a person. and i said, if you sat down and had dinner with steve bannon, you would probably coming away thinking this is probably one of the most interesting people i have ever met. i think part of the issue with the negative perception he has in the media right now is because steve is not known. people do not know who he is. people in the media, people in politics, so he's a blank slate. the democrats have been very successful at painting a caricature of him by drawing out some of the really ugly stuff

that breitbart has printed and associated that, blaming steve for that. it's not been helpful. and trump's problem, the whole trump campaign's problem is they haven't bothered to correct these perceptions because they don't seem to care. that's not going to be a sustainable approach going forward. >> i kind of disagree with this. i think they have really set out in a calculated way to create this kind of conflict. they're not talking to -- they're not talking to the media. they're not talking to liberals or to the extent they are talking to that group of people, it's to bait them and make them angry and that kind of reaction does their job for them. their people, the more the media is shocked shock, the more the trump country is -- seems to be

delighted. >> we have bob costa and mark halperin we still want to get in there, but just to respond to that, the calculating part, the conspiratorial part of it, i have been inside the trump camp and headquarters, whatever you want to call it, and talked to a lot of these people. i don't see them thinking any of this out, sitting around going, how can we make sure that liberals have a really horrible reaction, we frighten them more? that is not -- >> i sat there with steve bannon last week, and that's exactly what he was talking about. >> he wants to conspire to frighten the left? >> yes, he finds it very convenient. this feeds into their hands. all of the, you know, i mean, why the hamilton thing and trump is doing his tweets and the media is taking this bait. yeah, i think it delights them, and i think it's working for them. >> but that's not them conspiring. they didn't do the "hamilton" thing. the "hamilton" cast did that and

people in the audience booed. you're blaming that on them, as part of a conspiracy? >> no, i'm saying that trump's tweet to do that was, he knows that that is -- that's the bait that the media is going to take. >> bob costa, you want to chime in? >> there are all sorts of advisers around donald trump right now, and jared kushner, you have someone who is family by marriage. in priebus, a party man, operational strategist, tactician, and bannon, i'll never forget, i was with bannon reporting on trump when he first saw trump rallies in ohio, and he turned to me said and andrew jackson, williams jennings bryant, as he saw trump embrace this crowd, thousands of people cheering. bannon adds this element of what he thinks trump is in history, in historical terms as populist, nationalist, like andrew jackson. that's where bannon wants to fit trump in the whole spectrum.

>> mark halperin, from what you've seen and your sources, does it match what -- i see people in there right now trying hard to get through the day and figure out how they're going to make thousands of appointments, and maybe not making the right choices. we'll see. but i don't see a conspiracy, to use bannon's past and those parts, aspects of his talent to sort of divide the country. i don't see it, and i have talked to them. what have you seen? >> i get your point of view, and i get michael wolff's point of view and i don't know what the answer is. i do know this. he's leaving too much -- >> yes. >> unsaid, unexplained. >> who is he? >> bannon. >> and trump on bannon. >> this is about trump, but it seems to me it's in nobody's interest and certainly not in the public interest to continue to let this sit out there and not explain himself.

the interview with you was provocative. it didn't include any attempt to try to bring the country together. i get his critique of the media and there's nothing wrong with that from a political point of view. why is he letting himself be defined on such negative terms? >> that's what i'm saying. i think it's part of a very clear and quite thought out strategy. we, i mean, the media are helping to literally helping to define what they are not. and i think they find that very, very powerful. i think they find it energizing. every slip that we make, the entire failure, the "new york times" failure, which they talk about all the time, in the "new york times" is one of those strawmen that they keep hitting and hitting and hitting. it fills them with -- well, it fills them with glee, and i think it -- >> that's just trump's people.

trump can't help himself. there's no plan there. i mean, that's who he is. he's impulsive and he can't help but react. >> but it helped him win the white house. >> you would like that to be the case. i'm saying it's not the case. i'm saying it's very thought out. who is the enemy? the very, very helpful enemy? the "new york times." and the "times'" failures just to make the point, last week, the transition was in disarray. this morning, headline, the transition is a spectacle. and i think the fact that the "new york times" does not know what it's talking about relentlessly now works in the new administration's favor. they love it. >> that's for sure. yeah. michael wolff, thank you so much. this is definitely a conversation we need to continue. you should come back because there's a lot here.

we'll be reading your piece on steve bannon in the hollywood reporter. i suggest everyone read it. still ahead, "saturday night live" introduces us to the brooklyn bubble. >> plus, a look at what the "new york times" describes as trump's battle to build something inspiring. "morning joe" is back in a moment. they are the natural borns enemy of the way things are.

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the unthinkable has finally happened. our nation torn, broken. you could move to canada, but you love your country. what can a person like you do? >> what if there was a place where the unthinkable didn't happen? >> now, there is. >> welcome to the bubble. the bubble is a planned community of like-minded green thinkers. and no one else. >> in here, it's like the election never happened. with things everybody loves like hybrid cars, used book stores

and small farms with the rawest milk you have ever tasted. >> the bubble is a diverse community and safe space for everyone. >> we don't see color here. but we celebrate it. >> and unlike the rest of america, anybody is welcome to join us. one-bedroom apartments start at $1.9 million. >> the bubble, it's brooklyn with a bubble on it. >> oh, my god. i love it. it's getting good. joining us now, columnist for "the new york times," james writes about the trump-sized idea for a new president. build something inspiring, and he writes in part this. here's how president-elect trump could unify a bitterly divided america. provide well-paying jobs to many of the millions of disaffected workers who voted for him, and lift the economy. stock market, and tax rolls. all he needs to do is what he presumably does best, build something. build something awe-inspiring. something americans can be proud of.

something that will repay the investment. many times over for generations to come. build the modern-day equivalent of the golden gate bridge, the lincoln tunnel, or the timber line lodge. all of these depression era new deal works started under franklin d. roosevelt that are stin use today. can anyone name even one of the infrastructure projects from president obama's $800 billion american recovery and reinve reinvestment act. i mean, the name itself, i don't think so. there's a great point there. because there's the wall. >> we're not talking about the wall. >> you're not talking about the wall. okay, you're talki ing about something tangible, something that brings pride as well as jobs. >> you know, contributes to the well-being of this nation. i don't know about the rest of you, but every time i have to go on a trip, car, rail, airport, my stress level goes up. i have anxiety. what horrible thing is going to go wrong? we need so much in this country, it's been neglected for decades,

and we still are using roosevelt era infrastructure. but these are more than projects. they are inspiring. and they do serve a social benefit that people see what their tax money is doing for them. >> this is also you're now fitting the personality of the president-elect. i don't know if you guys saw him in any interviews, but even in the "60 minutes" one, he said this is what we do, correction. and he engages. he's confident. he knows exactly what he's talking about, and it's what he loves. it's what he loves. >> right, all you have to do is look at what he's built. he doesn't want something bland that disappears into the background that nobody notices. you can quibble about his tastes when we're talking about a co-op or a count condo building this could work on a national scale. we need beacons here. the government has proven it can do things well. >> bob and mark, democrats clearly, this is one area where they're like, maybe we can actually work together.

what about republicans? >> well, there's a culture on the right within the republican party about spending. and really, this has been since ronald reagan's presidency, the driving force within the party. they want to cut government. they don't want to spend on infrastructure. ryan and others have come up with infrastructure plans but this sprawling plan that bannon floating, a $1 trillion infrastructure project, it's going to take time, political talent to make the case to his own party. >> there's almost no talk of deficit reduction or debt reduction in the campaign. while bob is right that's been the glue that held the party together, it seems pretty clear that this combined with corporate tax reform is going to be one of the first major initiatives. to me, the key is can trump lead a process where the money is spent right? if he does nationally what he did, it will be fantastic to build some big projects that help our infrastructure. >> this is again what he does. when you look at watts going on

in the foreign policy field, i will say i personally, and i have, you saw on the show today, my brother ian is a republican who worked in the bush administration, who is an expert in nato and eastern europe, and i still see the people who are going in there on the foreign policy de, and i'm deeply concerned. as far as it is to domestic policy and infrastructure, this is where he really, i think, has an opportunity to shine, especially if there is an idea during his inaugural address, and really kind of -- >> absolutely. >> invigorate the nation. >> roosevelt launched his program in the first 100 days. one thing i would say to the ryan camp, the deficit camp, is this isn't money we're just throwing away. these are investments. i mean, they repay eventually. >> people don't understand that. >> some of them pay for themselves. bridges are very good, toll bridges tend to pay for themselves. some of them are much trickier, but these are investments that promote growth and should not increase the deficit. that would be the argument.

>> symbolically, he could go to flint and figure thought out. >> and the contracts shouldn't go to his friends. >> right. >> the administration of this is extremely important. if we're talking a trillion, by the way, a lot of people say a trillion is not enough, more like $2 trillion would do it, but you need careful controls. >> idealogical republicans are the type who can get this done. eisenhower, it was the highways. >> james stewart, thank you for being on. i hope you have good travels ahead. up next, donald trump does what might have been unthinkable during the campaign. he settles in the trump university case. we go inside the pivot from bezman to president. keep it right here on "morning joe." whether it's bringing cutting-edge wifi to 35,000 fans...

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as president-elect trump moves forward with his transition, he's also moving past allegations of fraud against him and trump university. new york's attorney general eric schneiderman announced the $25 million deal on friday, calling it a major victory for more than 6,000 students of trump university. the settlement applies to three lawsuits including two cases in california filed against his now defunct for-profit operation. in a statement, schneiderman said donald trump fought us every step of the way, filing baseless charges and fruitless appeals refusing to settle even the most modest amounts for compensation for the victims.

trump said i settled for a small fraction of the potension award because as president, i have to focus on our country. the only bad thing about winning the presidency is i did not have the time to go through a long but winning trial on trump u. too bad. the agreement means trump will avoid being the first president-elect to testify in open court while preparing to take office. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. we have a lot of names to go through because still not sure who secretary of state is going to be. between rudy out front and mitt romney, possibly, maybe some others could come in. david mccormick was in there yesterday. he's at bridgewater, a west point grad. a combat vet. a tech entrepreneur who worked in the bush white house. >> dark horse for mnuchin was seen as a front runner, but he has mike pompeo running the cia. david urban who might be there.

>> who else are we looking at? >> wilber ross as a leading candidate for commerce secretary. an american investor. someone who is known for being a straight talker. and he, i was told, watch him. mr. trump was very impress eed him. the other name, james "mag dog" mattis. >> what's going on there? >> former marine general. he is someone who is also known as being sort of tough. the mad dog title, if you will. looked at for secretary of defense. president-elect trump praised him throughout the weekend. the thing to know about him, what's really interesting, he was very affirmatively against the iran deal. and so he's someone who is an obama agitator in that regard. but i was told to watch him. then, of course, you have the meeting with former texas governor rick perry today. >> what is that about? >> former rival. well, what's so interesting is i think you're seeing in terms of his actual picks he's picking a

number of his loyalists. his allies. he's also meeting with former rivals. mitt romney, rick perry. and the question is how seriously is he really considering them ini was told he is considering everyone seriously. if you brought in a mitt romney, it would be a real counterpoint to someone like a steve bannon. >> but nikki haley, is she still in the discussions? >> i haven't heard as much about her. i have, again, heard more mitt romney bubbling up. >> looking for names of women. michelle rhee. >> michelle rhee was there, a democrat. obviously someone who has her own controversial record when it comes to reforming the school system in d.c., but she's someone who is getting a lot of buzz as well. >> okay. well, those are the names we're looking at right now. the drama continues. i think they have 59 days. >> yes. >> to put this together. >> a lot more to talk about on tomorrow's episode. >> tomorrow's episode of "morning joe" is going to be a big one, huh? >> all new. >> kristen, thank you so mitch. that does it for us this

morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. >> i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, so much to cover. first, the dating game. donald trump with very public cabinet courtships over the weekend. romney, christie, giuliani. 21 in all. >> really, really talented people. >> now, former texas governor rick perry is swinging by. is he in play for secretary of defense? >> and a trump tantrum. a relentless twitter tirade against the cast of "hamilton." after this icy reception to vice president-elect mike pence in the audience. >> was trump trying to divert attention from something else? now mike pence is speaking out. >> we heard a few boos and we heard some cheers. and i nudged my kids and reminded them that's what freedom sounds like. >> staying put. melania and their youngest son barron not moving to the white house, at least not yet. we have the details. >> plus, b