check out bloomberg politics.com for some reporting on which wall street veterans are advising trump through this transition period. wall street veterans. hard to believe. until tomorrow, for mark and i, we say to you, sayonara. booze over broadway. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. well, donald trump continued meeting with prospective cabinet appointees and others today at trump tower. over the weekend, trump held a series of 21 different meetings at the trump national golf club in bedminster, new jersey. among the prospects, mitt romney, rudy giuliani, retired general james mattis, governor chris christie, scott brown, rick perry, and newt gingrich. but even as president-elect

trump foxes on putting together his government, he spent part of the weekend reacting to perceived slights from "saturday night live" and the cast of the broadway musical "hamilton." on friday night, mike pence attended a performance of the popular broadway show. he was greeted by a few cheers and a swell of boos from the audience. [ booing ] >> well, you could hear it there. after the show, one of its stars read a statement to pence written by the show's creator, linwell miranda. here's part of that. >> president-elect pence, we welcome you and we truly thank you for joining us here at hamilton american musical. we really do. we, sir, we are the diverse america who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us. our families, our children, our

parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir, but we truly hope this show hads inspired you to uphold our values and work on behalf of all of us. all of us. >> well, donald trump responded, as you might expect, with a series of angry tweets. quote, our wonderful future vp, mike pence, was harassed last night at the theater by the cast of "hamilton," cameras blazing. this should not happen if cast of "hamilton" was very rude last night, to a very good man. the cast and producers of "hamilton," which i hear is highly overrated, should immediately apologize to mike pence for their terrible behavior. trump also answered a question about the incident over the weekend. >> mr. trump, are you still upset about "hamilton"? >> they were very inappropriate. >> well, today the actor who read the statement, brandon dixon, told cbs he wouldn't

apologize. >> when donald trump tweeted that this was harassment of his vice president-elect, your response was? >> i simply informed them that harassment or rather, conversation is not harassment, you know? and i was really appreciative that vice president-elect pence stood there and listened to what we had to say. >> the president-elect is demanding an apology. >> i heard. >> we assume that no apology is forthcoming? >> there's nothing to apologize for. >> joining me right now, "the washington post's" robert costa, steven cortez, a trump supporter and foerp adviser, korean jeae colerain rine jean pierre. i thought what the cast had to do was fine by me. i thought they did it very professionally and respectfully. they made a point, about

diversity. the booing was low brow. it was the booing of an elite audience that paid 800 bucks to be there. they were dumping on a fellow member of the audience. it was inappropriate behavior, low brow, from beginning to end, but i'm with the cast 100%. how do you split it? >> chris, i have to tell you, i don't know that we can excuse the cast, ever. >> you go for it. >> i think you're exactly right that 99% of americans, by the way, could never afford to be there in the first place. and both audience and cast, i think, live in a cultural bubble of new york city. and yet talk condescendlying to the vice president, who was just elected by a country that they don't understand, frankly, very well. and they don't understand the economic angst that exists out there in america, which i think was the primary impetus behind this revolution at the ballot box. >> you don't consider that cast elite, do you? a lot of those people would have a hard time. let me tell you about showbiz, my kids are in it.

being able to afford an $800 ticket is what those kids normally does. they can't afford to get in there. they're working their butt off. >> but that doesn't mean they're not in a cultural bubble of new york city. i think that is important here. >> well, it's not elite. >> whether you're in a bubble or elite or not, if you hold the rostrum. imagine going to church on sunday, going to church yesterday, and having the preacher or the priest call you out, and you have noed y -- you know, he said that was a conversation, the actor. that's not a conversation. that's one-way. that's dictation. that is me calling you out and you have no ability to effectively respond. >> i thought mike pence was a genius, the way he handled it. your thoughts? >> look, i think that free speech, it should be everywhere, right? it applies everywhere. whether it's on twitter, to broad kay, to the streets, to the white house. and donald trump lecturing anyone on bullying is just a joke. and so what's happening here is that he's using this as a

classic misdirection. it's a diversion to talk about the real issues happening right now with his transition campaign. and also, him going to twitter, he uses twitter like a jedi mind trick, right? it's like, here's a shiny object. i'm going to distract you, i'm going to manipulate the media, so we're not talking about what's happening, actually, which is, the conflict with his business, when it comes to his administration. >> your thoughts on this, robert? you've covered this guy for a year at least, now. is trump just using this as a shield, this culture war? to shield the fact he had to pay a lot of money in the trump u. case, or is he the kind of guy who thinks there's a real culture war and benefits from it. i think he's as canny as a fox. he wants this fight because he knows the new york elite at that theater are not america and he can take them on. your thoughts? >> as a public figure, he's always been more comfortable coming through things as political theater, as an actor,

in a sense. embracing confrontation and the fight. he's of the culture more than he is of any political ideology and this is his natural mode. >> what do you make of the fact the audience booing mike pence. no one asked them to do it. they did it, free speech, they had the right to do it. no doubt about that. the cast members knew what they were doing and they were professional. lin manuel wrote the scrip for thatted admonition. his only opportunity to play this card was how to react. tell me how it fits into his mode of reaction? was it a cover-up of his trump u. giveaway, where he had to pay the money. he lost. he lost that case. he had to pay. or is it something else? >> trump's sitting there in trump tower tonight, and he's got steve bannon at his side, son-in-law jared kushner, but it's the bannon relationship that's key. you look at breitbart and how they engage with political theater and how they go after their opponents. this is something that trump is

not walking away from. he has -- he wants to be full i immersed, not just on the policy, but in the culture. not in the traditional pat buchanan culture sense. this is someone who wants to use the deviivisiveness in the cult to his advantage. >> here's what mike pence said yesterday on fox. >> my daughter and i and her cousins really enjoyed the show. "hamilton" is just an incredible production. when we arrived, we heard a few boos and we heard some cheers. and i nudged my kids and reminded them, that's what freedom sounds like. and -- but at the end, i did hear what was said from the stage, and i can tell you, i wasn't offended by what was said. i'll leave to others whether that was the appropriate venue to say it. >> do you think, carrine, this is all a setup to get him to be

president. that's what a president would say. i brought my daughter and her cousins, and it was a cross cultural thing for a conservative from the midwest. he did walk in, not enemy territory, but different territory for him. he was trying to reach out culturally to see something he had heard about. it wasn't conservative culture, it was new culture. >> i agree, it was new culture. and i think to say that the staff or the performers of "hamilton" are elitist, you have to get to know who they are and read their bio, and you wouldn't -- that's not what you would get from that. but i think, chris, the thick is, if you look at what happened last week, we learned so many -- there was so much conflict of interest. there was the meeting that ivanka trump sat in with the japanese prime minister. you know, while they are doing, you know, trump does business in japan. there was -- we learned that during the campaign, whale he

was hammering at hillary clinton about her foundation in saudi arabia, he was actually doing business in saudi arabia, too. so there was so much that happened in just one week. imagine what the four years of a trump administration -- >> what he accused the clintons of doing. >> that's exactly right. >> i'm sorry, steve,ed you wan to say something? then we'll go to "saturday night live"? >> i think there's a double standard that americans see. and it would be this. it's a hypothetical. if this same scene had unfolded in 2008 with then president-elect obama, do you believe in all honesty that this cast, would they have lectured him, at the time, he was vehemently against same-sex marriage, would they have lectured him in the same manner they lectured mr. pence? i n't believe so. an think that's evidence of a double standard and i think it's part of the reason why we won this election. >> let's look at this, "saturday night live," who no one would accuse of being conservative, also got under donald trump's skin this weekend. here was part of their opening sketch with alec baldwin as

trump. >> we've been stuck fighting isis in jabat, al nusra, for six years now. so when we found out you had a secret plan, it really energized us. >> that's right. a plan. very secret. >> well, whatever it is, we're really looking forward to hearing it come january. it's only seven weeks away, so, let's save some lives together, sir. >> tremendous. love it. thank you. >> okay, right. here we go. here we go. big plan. big plan. google "what is isis." >> well, trump tweeted yesterday, i watched parts of "saturday night live" last night, it is a totally one-sided bias show, nothing funny at all. equal time for us. well, it is funny, i'll give them that. let me go back to steve on this. i want to go to costa.

robert, my friend, is this the dpi beginning? i get the feeling we're all in the middle of a reality show. all of these candidates trooping forward, doing their jumps and elephant hand stands, whatever he's asked to do, including mitt romney, they're all pretending they like him and dying to get jobs. he could do this right through christmas? this is a hell of a show. he'll bring every republican wannabe in to see him. >> we're seeing a show, but let's look at what's really happening politically. you have a president-elect who hasn't had a news conference, he brings in all the network executives today, is dismissive of the press coverage of the campaign, he's sitting there make all these cabinet picks, he's having a highly orchestrated video come out about his first 100 days. at the same time, he's got all this cultural distraction. "snl," fighting with hamilton. this is how trump operates. distract, make it about the culture, but at the same time, he's not talking to the press

and making all these conservative policy plans. >> i think he knows what he's doing. i think his part of the country might be a little bit bigger than the "saturday night live" audience, but we'll see. he's duking it out with these people and it's always, you talking to me? he wants to fight. robert costa, thank you. thank you all. tomorrow on "hardball," i just got the word that trump's campaign manager kellyanne conway is going to be here on "hardball." coming up, two-thirds of democrats want their party to stand up to donald trump, but democratic leaders might not be willing to do such a thing. by the way, what's the best strategy for democrats work right now? work with rump or do what the republicans did last type to obama, do nothing and stop him in his tracks. and white nationalists converged on washington jubilant in their victory. and the "hardball" roundtable and what it says about how trump will govern as

president. finally, let me finish with tonight's edition of trump watch. ooum goi i'm going to fail this thing. this is "hardball," the place for politics. hey, need fast heartburn relief? try cool mint zantac. it releases a cooling sensation in your mouth and throat. zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. try cool mint zantac. no pill relieves heartburn faster. when i was too busy with the kids to get a repair estimate. i just snapped a photo and got an estimate in 24 hours. my insurance company definitely doesn't have that...

you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance we've got some tragic breaking news to report. a fatal school bus challenge in chattanooga, tennessee. 35 children were on this bus, 23 are injured and officials say there are multiple deaths. nbc's kerry sanders joins us now with more. kerry? >> authorities say at this point, at least six children may have died in this accident, five at the scene, one rushed to the hospital, who did not make it. the zroern saying that there could be more deaths. the medical examiner is currently at the scene. this is a parent's worst nightmare. as you said, 35 kids on a bus. the bus in chattanooga, tennessee, mangled, turned on its side, wedged between two trees, into a house. the driver of the bus is cooperating with police. the medical examiner is there on the scene, but parents have been

told to retreat back to the elementary school, where the children were all attending. these kids are from kindergarten through fifth grade. and the parents are there. some holding their loved ones, others waiting anxiously for some news about their loved ones, but as each hour goes by, that much more difficult for the parents when they're not seeing their children run up to them or getting word that they're at the hospital. >> kerry, is there a bigger responsibility than driving a school bus? i can't think of one. kerry sanders in chattanooga. we'll be right back after this. new plan...same doctor. i'm happy. it's medicare open enrollment. have you compared plans yet? it's easy at medicare.gov. or you can call 1-800-medicare. medicare open enrollment. you'll never know unless you go. i did it. you can too. ♪ (laughs..) here it is. ♪

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i hope on the promises he's made to blue collar america, on trade, on carried interest, on infrastructure, that he'll stick with them and work with us, even if it means breaking with the republicans, who have always opposed thes things. >> that's one tough customer. that's chuck schumer, the democratic leader of the united states senate. back to "hardball" right now. that was chuck schumer himself of new york yesterday on "meet

the press." schumer said there are several ways democrats can and should work with president-elect trump. let's watch. >> we're not going to work with him for the sake of working with him. we're not going to oppose him just because it's something that trump sponsors. let me give you a couple of examples on both sides. surprising surprisingly, on certain issues, candidate trump voiced very progressive and populist opinions. for instance, getting rid of the carried interest loophole, changing our trade laws dramatically. a large infrastructure bill, cleaning up the swamp in washington. but, on issues where our values are at stake, where the president goes in a divisive direction, where his campaign did before, we'll go against him with everything we've got. >> well, "new york times" columnist james stewart has an idea for how trump in congress can unite the country. he writes, here's how president-elect trump could unify a bitterly divided america. provide well-paying jobs to many

of the millions disaffected workers who voted for him and lift the economy. stock market, and tax rolls. all he needs to do is do what he presumably does well, build something awe inspiring. a new pew research poll out today shows that 65% of democrats want democratic leaders to stand up to trump on issues that are important to them, even if it means that less gets done in washington. what does this mean for the spirit of bipartisan cooperation? is that even possible anymore? howard dean is the former governor of vermont and former chairman of the democratic national convention. he's seeking to win that post back at the dnc. nina turner is a former ohio state senator and msnbc political analyst. i want to start with the governor now about -- you know, i look at trump and never know which trump we're going to get. if it's infrastructure, big spending, democrats like to spend and build. that should be a deal, right there >> and trump has talked about doing that with public/private partnerships, which is really a good idea, but you don't jack the national debt up by $5 trillion, which is what his plan

would do. so there are some places we can work with him and we should. i do not think we should do what the republicans did, which is basically put their party in front of their country for six years and get nothing done. >> they were sobs. >> mcconnell and gingrich said, we're going to screw this guy. >> and they were bad for america. it wasn't a very patriotic idea. there are some areas that trump has talked about, a student loan forgiveness program. let's take a look at that. we're not going to stand in the way of a student loan forgichbs program just to make a political point like the republicans did for six years. >> you know what's been talked about, nina, one is we've got about $30 trillion sitting overseas, because of the tax laws of this country, the corporate tax rates and things like that. you say, why don't we find a way to grab all of that and put it into development of a public/private thing. i personally want a public road. i want to see high-speed rail.

i want to reignite this country across it. like lib conn did. rebuild and reunite america geographically. spend the money. we have low interest rates right now. you can borrow it. call them trump bonds. i'm not worried aut the deficit, because it's a real investment. it's not giving money away for survival, it's using money to invest in our whole total future. your thoughts? >> that's right, and it is a big deal from an economic perspective, but also from a safety perspective, too. we have some of the worst roads and bridges in this country. and it's unsafe, it's pbad for business and bad for everyday families. when president obama gave states -- states had to compete and they got money for high-speed rail. my home state of ohio gave back $400 million. i mean, we have to start somewhere. not only is it good for jobs, but brings our country up to the 21st century. in areas where we can work president-elect trump, i think the democrats should do that.

as leader mcconnell said, he wanted to make president obama a one-term president and we see what that got us. they shut down the government. that cost taxpayers about $26 million. >> you're up again, i want to ask you this, senator, how do you dog train tough? i mean it trough, dog train. you know, if he poops in the hall, his nose goes in it. how you make sure he doesn't do it again. if he says, we're going toed by a wall and get rid of obamacare, a big waste of time. not going to happen. the democrats can at least stop that from happening. and the mexicans will build that wall or not, it has nothing to do with us. how do you teach him? >> i would like to think that president-elect trump is going to follow through on the things he said for the economy, because there are people depending on him to do that. but he tries to build a wall, this registry that's percolating out there, the democrats and all conscience-mind conscience-minded americans will

have to go ham and go there hard. because the moral integrity of this country is at stake. we cannot sit back and let my type of racism of xenophobia or other stuff take place. but if the president-elect is serious, there are wonderful things he can do to show that. >> this is where i don't know what he's up to. i got along with him every time i see him. he's civilized, can be charming, but trump's talking about john bolton as secretary of state, then rudy giuliani, now rudy giuliani for director of national intelligence. is fema next for rudy? he's playing all these name games. you don't know where he's going. >> the big mystery of donald trump. and it's also, nobody knows what's going to happen. most of the republicans that i know who did work on the campaign have no idea what he's going to do, because he's got three positions on every issue in a single day. we have no idea how he announces something or he puts in a bill, have any idea --

>> but it tells you who you pick. he picks john bolton who's never seen a war front he didn't want to bring our troops to. or brings in rudy, i don't know what rudy's foreign policy is. he's never had to have one. and outing on mitt romney looks calm and sophisticated, but i don't know what his foreign policy is. it sounds to me it's going to be trump's foreign policy, no matter who he picks. >> well, true that, chris. but if he picks bolton or mayor giuliani, it goes contrary to what president-elect said on the campaign trail in terms of not being a hawk. and it would not be good for this country. >> well said. today trump met with democratic congresswoman, tulsi gabbard. while the rules of political says that i should not have met

with president-elect, i will never allow partisanship to undermine our national security. there's a woman, a politician, tulsi, very anti-intervention. and now she's saying, maybe we can cut a deal with russia. maybe there is a way to somehow end the bloodshed in syria and keep us out. that's what she believes in. >> she's an interesting people and the people from hawaii basically have her tabbed as an extremely ambitious with flexible principles. >> really? >> yeah. she was a lefty for bernie, now she's talking about running against a liberal senator from the hawaii. so who knows what this is al about. >> what's in it for trump? >> that's a very good question. maybe he wants to be seen as reaching out to democrats. to get back to the rudy thing for a minute, you know how this game is played. for all we know, rudy's floating his own name and it's coming around -- >> he met with him again this

weekend. >> they floated dni for him. that's not as high level as secretary of state. >> right. >> they're hurting him a little bit. >> the question is, why is it foreign policy? this is a guy with a lot of domestic experience -- >> this is one reality show we've never seen before. this trump parade of el fephanl. it's right out of ringling brothers. >> congresswoman tulsi gabbard is a combat veteran, so i've got to say she's been true to her heart and what she believes in. and i think it was very smart of her to take the invitation of president-elect trump and put people over politics. i don't agree with the governor and that comment he made about the congresswoman. >> we'll find out about this, soon. up next, white nationalists come to washington, energized over trump's victory. that's coming up. this is a little scary. this is "hardball," the place for politics. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪

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hi. i'm richard lui with breaking news for you this hour. tennessee authorities saying at least five people are dead in a school bus crash in chattanooga. at least 20 others have been taken to hospitals. 35 children were onboard. no other vehicles were involved. and a magnitude 6.9 earthquake shaking japan's east coast near the site of the deadly 2011 quake that killed nearly 19,000 people. a 2-foot tsunami wave was

observed near fukushima. the quake could be felt more than 100 miles away in tokyo. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." donald trump's candidacy emboldened many on the right-wing fringe to speak their minds were freely during the campaign. now some of those voices say they hope his presidency will help to bring their movements out from the shadows and into the mainstream. this weekend, for example, at the ronald reagan building near washington, a group of white nationalists celebrated trump's victory at an event hosted by a think tank called the national policy institute. the group was led by a richard spencer, who says his first -- he first coined the term alt-right, he did it, to describe his ideology. according to "the new york times," quote, spencer railed again against jews and with a smile quoted nazi germany. he said america belonged to white people who he called the

children of the sun, a race of conker congererk congers. reporters at the atlantic captured the reaction at the close of spencer's speech. >> hail trump, hail our people, hail victory! >> well, you saw those arms up there, the nazi style. a former reality tv star tila e tequila tweeted a picture of herself in the nazi salute. ryan lanza of the trump transition team also released this statement. president-elect trump has continued to denounce racism of any kind and he was elected

because he will be a leader for every american. to think otherwise is a complete misrepresentation of the movement that unite ed american from all backgrounds. joini let's start with richard. we trust your organization. this big meeting over the weekend is the kind of thing that i think deserves note from everybody. and it shouldn't just go by with the people who did the nazi salute. everyone should know what's going on. what is this group up to? this national policy institute, with what looks like a white national crusade going on within our borders? >> that's exactly right, chris. and it's a scary development and trump and bannon have given them a new platform. you know, these groups used to exist on the fringe of society, you know, breitbart has given them a platform for their ideas.

and trump has been their champion, ever since he came down that escalator at trump tower and called mexicans rapists. so they see a kindred soul in trump. they see a champion in breitbart and bannon and they're feeling their oats. >> what do they want? if you would go to a police station and report a crime they did, what is their motive in life? what excites them about trump winning? >> richard spencer is very clear. he wants an ethno-nationalist state. he wants a white america. he believes in peaceful ethnic cleansing. he wants a state that's built on very different principles than the declaration of independence. those are his words. >> how do you get people who are african-american, jewish, whatever, leave peacefully from this white world he's created? why would anybody leave their own country? >> i don't think that they would. and i think that that's one of the dangers here.

you know, we're seeing, you know, around the country now, a lot of trump people not just talking or a lot of people in trump's camp, but also lots of racial incidents. you know, we've tracked almost 900 at this point. i think it's a very disturbing thing that we're seeing. >> give us a thought from your reporting, this group, national policy institute, that doesn't look like a think tank to me. >> no, but it brands itself as a white nationalist think tank headed by richard b. spencer, who has become one of the leaders of the white nationalist alt-right in this country, which is a fancy, dressed up term for white supremacist. these leaders include jared taylor and -- >> what do they call for in politics? what do they want as first steps? >> much like the other guest was saying were, their ideal vision for america would be transforming it into an ethno-white only state. >> that's not working out, too

well, is it? >> no. >> what are they doing to change the direction of the country? >> the thing they like about what presidential candidate and now president-elect trump has said he would do as president is muslim ban, kicking out the immigrants, mexicans are rapists. political correctness is bad. these are things that support his white nationalist supporters and why they've been drawn to him for over a year. >> tell me about your view of bannon. he's going to get a job inside whent white house? >> he's about to become one of the host powerful people in the world. >> he once described his conservative news site as the platform for the alt-right. but in an interview with "the hollywood reporter" conducted jusz last week after he was named trump's white house strategist, he said, i'm not a white nationalist, i'm a nationalist, i'm an economic nationalist. and he defended his behind-the-scenes role in the trump campaign, which confounded the mainstream media. he said, darkness is good, dick

cheney, darth vader, say tan, that's power. it only helps us when we get it wrong. what do you make of this weird way of talking? it's not ingratiating to act like darth vader or dick cheney. >> i can guarantee you that he's loving his reputation he's getting on the left. but how would i describe steve bannon. should we call him a racist or a white nationalist. i would say he is a nationalist with hard-right views, who has used his website as a platform for, in part, white nationalist and the racist alt-right. so that is an accurate way to frame this, i would say. >> look, i think weir all patriotic. it's something called nationalist. we'll have to find out more about this. it looks like it's worse than that. thank you both. we like to hear from you. up next, the "hardball" scary, small, hopefully, a very small

threat to the country, least in the numbers. we'll be back with the roundtable tonight to talk about donald trump's new culture war. it looks like he wants to fight the broadway left. he wants to take on the people with $800 seats. that seems to be his latest play for publicity to keep us from thinking about the conflict of interest views, maybe? you're watching with "hardball," the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball." while donald trump continued to wage his public war against the cast of "hamilton" and "saturday night live" via twitter, he also went about the business of putting together a government. unlike past presidential krigss, this one is a reality tv show, all about him. "the new york times" described this election process as a trump-branded, made-for-tv spectacle, before reporters and the world exactly how we all saw it. for more, i'm joined by our roundtable, susan milligan, john

stanton, senior correspondent for buzzfeed, and tim pmac, senior correspondent for the daily weis. your reaction to the whole weekend mishmash. the booing -- i was surprised pence even went to the -- this is progressive stuff for hmm. him getting dressed down by the cast and later trump going crazy and pence being a gentleman, acting like a president and the whole thing about "saturday night live." put it all together, this culture war, that trump seems to like and the left, i think, likes. >> i think that, yes, i think both sides like and i think what happened in the election is not so much a political fight but a culture war between sort of the old america and the new america. but i think donald trump's reaction to that and the tweeting and just the thin-skinned nature of his response is kind of alarming, because being president of the united states is not just about policy, it's about gravitas and

dignity. and the more i watch him behave in the transition and see him not move from campaign mode to governing mode, the more i become concerned that he's going to lose not only for himself, but for future presidents the moniker of leader of the free wor world. >> it's like that guy, y touch my stuff, i'll kill you. >> what's interesting, hamilton has become the place where rich people, where liberals fight with each other the way that the rest of the country is fighting with each other right now, but calling ate culture war is a little bit too nice. it's a race war, essentially. >> why did pence go to the play to see a minority cast do this sort of, not satire, but a take on american history that's never been done before. as a minority experience >> i go to that play all the time. it's an interesting experience. "hamilton is" i don't know, i have a lot lots of opinions --

>> being $800, there were people in that audience that were well brought up, but they booed like hell when he walked in the door. >> that's fine. >> even though the campaign is over, it doesn't feel like it's over, right? and all these people in d.c., they're trying to prepare for a trump administration, what that would look like. will he be a conventional republican? and all indications have been, he's not going to be a conventional republican and he doesn't change. 70-year-olds don't change. >> but he's got to walk into a job. >> he's got to walk into a different job, but he's going to act the same way he has. he likes the attention, he understands the attention that a culture war brings and the same thin skin he did six months. >> but it's sort of like a marriage. you walk in, the other person walks in, you've got to cut a deal. you don't create the american presidency -- it's not an acquisition. he didn't just acquire the u.s. government, he's got to put up with the -- >> but he did acquire it.

he's a business man and a lot of people did say, bring a businessman's attitude. >> but who owns the presidency? the people do, the constitution. what about when rand paul comes along and says, you're not putting a neocon at secretary of state. i'm going to stop it. that's like the environmentalist shareholders of ford. they may complain and bitch and moan a little bit, but -- >> i don't think he's going to get it. >> i don't think -- i've seen this when house members have come in, in the business community, they say, it takes a while for them to adjust to the fact they're not a ceo anymore. you can't make the rules and just have everybody follow it. i think you can get freshman from state, some random state holding you up and it's going to drive you crazy, but that's -- >> no, they are afraid of donald trump. i think mitch mcconnell is afraid of donald trump, i think paul ryan is afraid of donald trump. he represents voters that terrifies him. he is the physical embodiment of everything they've been doing since 2010. they let them run their

conference in the house, they're doing it increasingly in the senate. and i don't think they're going to stand up to him. i don't think they're going to make him change. >> what are the democrats going to do when they put a right-wing pro-lifer, somebody who wants to outlaw and get rid of roe v. wade, throwing it back to the state so we have this craziness of laws about abortion rights. what happens when the democrats say, there's no way on god's earth i'm going to vote for that. what's he do? >> he might get a short-term honeymoon, bute's going to have a brutal reckoning with the law. already he's operating his business in a way that's sketchy, might be -- >> let's go to that question. what is he doing on the phone talking, maybe, with the governor -- the president of argentina about his business interests now. what is he doing bringing jared and his daughter into the meeting with the prime minister of japan? what are they doing in the room talking business? >> it turns out the term blind trust only means blind to reporters who are here trying to figure out about it.

it's not -- he has said that he would delegate that to his family. that continues to be a conflict of interest, because his family continues to be sitting in with business, in business meetings. it's a -- >> he saw the president of the congo, like, king what's-his-name, the king he replaced years before, they own the congo, but trump doesn't own this country. he can't just use every, you know, public encounter with a foreign leader as a business opportunity. >> well, it's going to be a brutal reckoning with the law and the constitution of the united states. >> i think he's going to come up against a wall. we'll see. you don't think so? you think he's going to walk we with the city? >> i don't think on this stuff, but the republicans are standing in his way. >> this city is pretty good at fighting back. thank you. the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these people will tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball," the place for politics. per roll

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ultimate limited edition bed. hurry, ends soon! learn more at sleepnumber.com know better sleep with sleep number. friday. make time for black humor. join me at 7:00 eastern as we look at all of the traditional political rules donald trump broke on his way to winning the white house. we're calling it how not to run for president and win. and that's friday at 7:00 eastern. we'll be right back. special this year?

here's a few suggestions. always cut the head off the turkey before you cook it. and don't forget to serve delicious stove top stuffing. my mouth is watering just thinking about it. the stuffing... not the turkey head. same nose. same toughness. and since he's had moderate alzheimer's disease, the same never quit attitude. that's why i asked his doctor about once-a-day namzaric. (avo) namzaric is approved for moderate to severe alzheimer's disease in patients who are taking donepezil. it may improve cognition

and overall function, and may slow the worsening of symptoms for a while. namzaric does not change the underlying disease progression. don't take if allergic to memantine, donepezil, piperidine or any of the ingredients in namzaric. tell the doctor about any conditions including heart, lung, bladder, kidney or liver problems, seizures, stomach ulcers, or procedures with anesthesia. serious side effects may occur, including muscle problems if given anesthesia; slow heartbeat, fainting, more stomach acid which may lead to ulcers and bleeding; nausea, vomiting, difficulty urinating, seizures, and worsening of lung problems. most common side effects are headache, diarrhea, dizziness loss oappetite, and bruising. (man) dad and i shared a lot of moments. now we're making the most of each one. (avo) ask about namzaric today. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. susan, tell me something i don't know. >> the democrats are devastated and shell shocked and got a big

reprieve with this election because papered over the progressive wing of the party and establishment wing of the party. senate is pulling it together with their new leadership team and this is time for them to regroup and become stronger. >> the pelosi thing, we'll see how that is going to go. >> i think katie baker and rashad has a great story out about college kids that supported trump and see themselves as the new hippies. they feel like they are being attacked on their campuses and get together in these small groups to talk about trump because they feel that -- >> what do they like about him? >> most of it is about the anti-political correctness and they feel that's so rampant on their campuses that a lot of them voted for him just because of that. >> i sort of get that attitude. go ahead. >> you mentioned tulsi gabbard. people on the show are steamed about her meeting with donald trump. also, she was one of the very few democrats who didn't sign a

letter last week asking the trump administration to rescind the bannon appointment. >> what appointment? >> the bannon appointment. >> so they think she's playing with them? >> yes. the people in hawaii think -- they are deeply concerned. >> howard dean said that earlier. there's a lot of anger about that. thank you so much, susan, john and tim. when we return, let me finish with tonight's edition of trump watch. it's tough. warning. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. your insurance company won't replace

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trump watch, november 21st, 2016. well, the star of "the apprentice" is now the star of a brand-new reality show. picking a cabinet. we see the contestants parade before us. they present themselves at trump tower or out at his golf course in jersey. trump's got their number. they had their chance. now they just want a job from him. some prestige to take the edge of the failure of winning the presidency himself. the second failure, to keep it from him. what do they think about the one guy who got to say you're fired and now gets to say you're hired? is rudy giuliani still on the list for secretary of state or is he losing out to mitt romney?

is he up for director of national intelligence and romney is the guy for state or is this all to keep it exciting, to give it a little drama like "the apprentice." ride with him in the helicopter to the democratic convention in atlantic city so he could pick the winner when they landed and tell the loser to get lost. not even johnson could get away from this kind of ego trip. trump is making an ever growing list of wannabees to show how much they want his approval and guess what, have you noticed the more press he gets out of the state department job, the more the list of possible candites grows? he adds to t list to keep it going, this new reality show of his. we're a country absorbed by the man with the tall hat and the wand, introducing the acts, making the elephants climb up on

the hind legs for the diversion of the greatest show on earth. you can't make this up, folks. that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> i don't know if it's a blind trust if ivanka and eric run it. i don't know. >> trump keeps meeting with business partners even though he's now president-elect of the united states. >> he's in the transition, he's president-elect and we're on pressing time. >> trump's cabinet picks raising new fears for muslims. >> can you ee kwif clee rule out a registry for muslims. plus, contesting an election he appears to have lost. and democrats divided on how to move forward in a trump presidency. >> we're not going to oppose him just because he says something that trump sponsors. >> when "all in"