fires happen on thanksgiving day each year. we wish none of you have one of those. that does it for us on this tuesday. i'm alex witt alongside ali velshi. with breaking news, a source with direct knowledge of donald trump's thinking tells "morning joe" in his administration the president-elect will not pursue any investigations into hillary clinton for her use of a private e-mail server and the clinton foundation. this development comes after he said this in an interview with "60 minutes" ten days ago. >> i'm going to think about it. she did bad things. >> but that special prosecutor. >> i don't want to hurt them. they are good people. i don't want to hurt them. it remains to be seen how

republican leaders will react to this news, and even before we get to day one we have got two years worth of material already lined up, and she has four years of history at the state department and it's not good, but, again, the president-elect does not plan to pursue this. >> that obviously is a big change from the middle of the campaign. herald ford obviously in the debate, and he said if donald trump were president of the united states and hillary clinton would be in jail, and that was a quick applause and that line scared a lot of people, and we have not so much a quick turn, and now we have this breaking news, and he has absolutely no interest in his administration pursuing any of these investigations. >> with people deep concerns around the governing narrative,

there's some of the concerns not to be as heightened, and this comment about hillary clinton and the affordable care, keeping parts of it, and and for these names to come forward, it suggests -- >> the only reason i bring up jamie is because "the wall street journal" said jamie dimon, and i heard donald trump say i don't like him. >> he called him the worst banker in the world, right? >> oh, how people come together.

>> when you say you are go to support a special prosecutor, and i don't think jamie dimon is the worst banker in the world. >> and jamie diamond would be at the top of anybody's list. donny, you have the campaign and you have the president-elect here, and what do you read into this, such a quick change? >> i read into it he wants to have an effective presidency. there would be nothing to be gained. the main job before anything for any policy, it's to unite, and there's a lot of fear in the country, and we don't need to go backwards or after her, and he's done a lot of things, and we can never normalize that, and then a lot of good things happening at the same time also. my view going forward is, on the one hand let us sell celebrate,

some of the smart things he's doing. so good news, still bad news. >> tom reubgz who wrote "fiasco," one of the great stories of the raublg war wrote an article for foreign policy yesterday about general maddious, and if tom reubgz feels that way about general maddious. he just delivered a blistering critique about george bush. >> along with bloomberg correspondent, josh green, and

we have david ignatius with us as well. >> a couple picks here that i actually have been relieved, i guess, is a good word to use. pompeo, and at the cia, he's gotten some good reviews from people i respect and trust, and general mattis i am hearing the same. >> on those two i would reinforce the positive things you are hearing. general mattis is one of the widely trusted commanders we have produced in the years of warfare, and he is famously

eccentric, and this is a single man, never married, and goes to sleep at night reading marcus surrealious in latin, and he was a tough commander, and his basic point has been if you are going to employ the military in a combat situation, make sure you have a strat swrae to prevail, and if you don't, be careful about using the military. that's what a lot of our generals want to hear, and it's a specific question about donald trump, and would he shoot iranian gun boats out of the water, and general mattis has taken a hard line matter on the issue, and saying we need to be tougher with the conflict situation with the iranians. >> he has some colorful quotes,

too, that tom ricks brings up, something like you have to go in there and loving and smiling and hugging and whatever, and be prepared to kill everybody in the room. there's some of them that i can't quote. there are some that are so tough and salty i can't quote. >> let it be said he sounds like a marine. on pompeo, the cia nominee, i met him for the first time a week ago and i met him and was introduced to him by congressman mike rogers, who everybody regards as a sensitive gop conservative kind of die that would have been a good choice for ci, and pompeo is highly regarded by rogers' friends, and he was at the top of his class, and at west point, and he may

have a political agenda, and we don't know what he brings to ci, and he's somebody that the workforce is to look at like the kind of person that wants to come in and do a good job. >> and other reports rudy guiliani is looking at national intelligence now, and along wjon bolton. >> all of these reports he would consider him for secretary of state, that kind of shocks me, especially when you have somebody like guiliani on standby. >> there's a number of people he is considering for that role. both have said tough things along the way, but what i saw in that room, the graciousness that

mitt romney brought was two men focused on the country. >> i don't think it's much of a choice, do you? >> i think i -- >> i am rooting for rudy. >> so is rudy. >> no, i mean the movie. >> the problem is, he's not up to the job. >> he says he is. >> and it's hard to say that about somebody that you respected for a long time. people say, what do you have against rudy guiliani? i have nothing against rudy guiliani, but if my mother told me that she wanted to run langley, yeah, love you ma, but ain't happening. >> joe! >> rudy guiliani doesn't have the experience. >> he says he does. >> he does not have the temperament. >> he says he does. >> and according to people close to him who has known him for a long time, he does not have the

energy to do this and he also is slipping in other areas as well. >> he told the president-elect and the world that he is the one that should get the job. >> according to people that have known rudy guiliani for a long time, this is the worst positioning to put him in, and for people that know him, it's not even a close call. >> and he also has all of these foreign intanglements that amplify the problems that trump himself is having, and when you have a figure like that that will double down on the narrative, and on the other hand, you have somebody like mitt romney who has a sterling record but would be wildly reassuring to republicans and other people, worried about a trump foreign policy, and the democrats also. >> and the brilliant move about romney would be it gives him so much air cover to things other people might shriek and

holler -- >> if you appoint romney, and you say i have mattis and romney and pompeo, and then it gives you more freedom to go to somebody other people may not like. >> and rudy guiliani has more influence than anybody ever over donald trump to tell him what he is going to get and what he is not going to get, and he shared publicly which is beyond me at this point as to how anybody can run their mouth like that, but tell me, how would he be as secretary of state? does that give you any pause? >> it's a little hard for me to imagine rudy guiliani as secretary of state because he tends to run hot in at least the years since he has been at the center of public life. he's very emphatic in the comments he makes during the campaign. when i try to think about him in state i have trouble.

in some ways it's harder to think of him as intelligence, and clapper, he made that job work and the job itself is a bureaucratic nightmare, and it would not suit somebody that had political views and wanted to contribute to the political debate and it's not the right job for that. one thing trump has shown interestingly is he is prepared to push aside people that have been close to him, newt gingrich and chris christie are out, and i don't know if that will happen to rudy guiliani, but neither position being described now seems like just the right fit. >> i have always said trump is incredibly transactional, and those characters, gingrich and rudy guiliani who served him well certainly would not serve him well in the administration

and he's willing to make that pivot. >> he said he would with draw us from the tpp and look at regulations and relieve some of that, and you think about that as secretary of state, and it looks to with draw rudy guiliani, and so it signals who is least qualified to do that, rudy guiliani. >> but rudy says he is going to get the job and he has it, because he's out front on it. >> herald can you imagine the uproar on the hill when rudy guiliani's name goes up -- >> i am adding to the narrative, the politics are expensive. >> with all the foreign intanglements, after #crookedhillary, and after all the talk of using public service to squeeze money out of foreign

entities and that's what rudy guiliani spent a decade doing according to the news reports, it's what he's been doing. the hearings on the senate -- in the senate would be an absolute bloodbath, and i don't think he would survive him, and you would have a wounded trump administration. he's a loyalist. >> he has to pick his battles. >> who does he want to fight over? what battles does he want to expend his political capital on, and there's a lot of people on the hill that does not like trump because he wants to do a lot of controversial things. >> would he survive a hearing for the director of national intelligence? >> no. >> that concerns me as much as the second of state world, because you have access -- >> again, i hate to say it, it's the truth and this is the sort of stuff i say, and joe is so mean for saying it, and joe has that right. >> you are mean regardless. >> i am mean regardless, and he's not up to that job and he's

not up to being secretary of state. he was loyal, i understand that, and they have to find a job that he was up to and he has the energy level for, because his energy level flags that he's got the mental acuity for, and they have to find that job, and if he doesn't like it, that's too bad. this is what is about what is best for donald trump and the republican party and this is what is best for the world and rudy strikes out on all of those accounts. >> he says he will get it, because he wants it and he likes to say he is going to get it because it's out front. it's frightening, actually. >> and donald trump, putting rudy guiliani in there pushes that narrative forward, and

putting mitt romney in there puts that rumor to a close. >> mitt romney and general mattis at state and defense, and pompeo in the cia, and david ignatius, let's go back to you, and i am not asking for your opinion and we know people in the foreign community, and i know more people in that community would breathe a sigh of relief with romney, mattis and pompeo running things there. >> i think you put it right, and there's a concern among the foreign policy, and trump might be undoing the american power, and america first and what has come back home and this is a team that would seem to represent the face of a forward-looking united states involved in the world, and these are each people who would be respected abroad and wouldn't

frighten foreign governments, and that's a lineup that would ease concerns abroad, and i think that is already beginning to happen, quite frankly, from my travels. >> you and the ae, a lot of concern about donald trump. can you give us the temperature right now on dealings about the incoming president? >> joe this was a useful way to take that measure. this is a conference that's hosted every year by the foreign minister of the uae, and he gathers foreign ministers from most of the countries, prominent people from all over, russia, china, europe, and the u.s. obviously, and i was asked to moderate the opening discussion about what a trump foreign policy means for the middle east, and the subject on which everybody in the room was pretty curious, and to my interest and

surprise because of trump's campai campaign on muslims, but it was iran and what to do about iran, and there was a general sense that trump would not tear up the agreement on the nuclear issues, as he sometimes said he would do, and people thought that was a bad idea and he would be much tougher on iran's behavior, and much more willing to challenge them in these regional areas, and secondly in dealing with russia, and russia is a fact of life in the middle east, in syria, and his willingness to try and say i will try to work with the russians to get something more stable, and pretty much across the board was met with nods of okay, we will watch that. there was much less of an anxious session that i might have accepted. >> good. >> he owes president obama a

thanks for the work he did around the world. >> we shall see. >> still ahead on "morning joe," senior adviser to the trump transition. kellyanne conway is here on the set, and "new york times" columnist, thomas friedman, will be here as well. but first, a check on the forecast. >> did you see the snow, and i don't know how they deal with it. these were snow drifts up to five and six feet. and the wind was howling and snowed for almost two days, and lorraine, new york, the highest accumulation, and it's the beginning of their winter season, and they got it good. still snow left this morning on interstate 81, and binghamton picked up two feet of snow. icy weather in minnesota for this morning, and watch out in

texas, and in november, slight risk of severe storms, and also down near san antonio, and maybe an isolated tornado. for today all the problems in the middle of the country and the winds die down, and horrible winds in the new york city airport, and even on wednesday, east coast looks good and the middle of the country is going to be the problem area, and thursday light rain will be moving into the northeast, and we will see showers out there for the macy's parade, not the best but not a complete washout either. new york city after two-hour delays with 50-mile-per-hour winds, and a lot calmer today and you can get on your way to your destination today. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

i think there are many people in the working class, who say maybe we are better off today than eight years ago, but

i am still working two or three jobs, and my kid can't afford to go to college and can't afford child care, and my real wage is going down for these years, and who is going to take care of me? the democratic party? and the perception was, no. some people are saying life is better today than eight years ago, and donny deutsch, eight years ago, donny deutsch turned 70. >> happy birthday. >> happy birthday, donny. >> when you take the hgh, it reverses back and so i am 41. >> me and canseco, we celebrate together. >> sounds great. >> bernie sanders, senator sanders went even further during those remarks on boston. according to boston magazine

while explaining how to fight trump he told a crowd in part, quote, one of the struggles you will be seeing in the democratic party is whether we go beyond identity politics. he goes on, it is not good enough for somebody to say i am a latina vote for me, that is not good enough, and i have to know whether or not that latina will stand up with the working class of this country and will take on big money interests, he said. this is where there will be division within the democratic party. it's not good enough for somebody to say i'm a woman, vote for me. no, is that not good enough. what we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to wall street and the insurance companies and the drug companies and to fossil fuel industry. >> bernie sanders today was quoted as saying that he thinks that he should stop with the identity politics in the democratic party, and whoa, and

he can call and we will tell him how to win. >> the one thing i will say about bernie sanders, though, he could have doubled down harder during the debate on the wall street issues and the issues that were important to the americans and he was too polite. while the system was rigged against him, he could have -- i'm fought going to talk about your e-mails and speeches, come o. that's what bothered people. >> there's a lot of truth there, but had bernie sanders developed an understanding, at least an elementary understanding of foreign policy and security issues, and there were times -- >> absolutely. >> and it looked like the moment he was going to excel past hillary clinton, and in addition to doubling down, he doubled down as hard as he could, and if

he showed crass with those issues, whoa. >> did you tell your mother you were going to be on the show today? >> should i call? >> no. >> traveling for thanksgiving. >> your mother is such a critic of you. why is she so tough on you? >> because she likes to tune in. she knows what channel "morning joe" is on and she likes to tape it and watch it and when i forget her, she gets bitter. >> bitter? i saw after one of your hits on cbs, she said the lighting was better on cnn. she's a critic. she's tough. >> a harsh critic. >> you think the people on twitter are mean -- >> she should meet my mother. >> a knife fight. >> josh, the democratic party, there are questions as to whether the democratic party has to move beyond identity politics. it has been -- listen, somebody

told me at the end of the campaign, looking at the democrats and i didn't really think about it, and you guys are too young to remember this, but a lot of you aren't, certainly donny, he's not young enough to remember anything. >> fdr. >> i remember. >> and san francisco democrats, 1984, they got so cut up and bul bulkanized, they forget to deal with one another. >> do you remember what walter phaupb dell did, he had a parade of ethnic representatives and they would walk into signal the rainbow coalition he was trying to assemble and the idea was the same thing with what clinton was doing, the sum of all these different groups add up to an electoral majority, but what she

forgot to do -- >> no coherence to the message. >> there's another issue to the message, you need the right figure, and hillary clinton, and bernie sanders, and nancy pelosi, they need new faces, and you cannot deliver a new message without a compelling transformational figure. beyond the fact they threw out the baby with the bathwater and forgot the core, and democrats right now, and there's herald is going to run, and they need fresh new facts and pwrpb berni sanders is not that. >> i have a birthday gift for you, donny, okay? this is just for you, and it's so good. >> the leader of the green party called out a fellow mp for a word, and take a look. >> why isn't the government

talking about how to curtail skilled labor? why isn't they getting construction workers back to work in alberta? why does this government treat alberta like a fart in the room that nobody wants to talk about. >> i heard her say the word she may want to with draw, and the word is f-a-r-t. >> are you serious, mr. speaker? i just gave an impassioned speech about supporting alberta jobs and that's what the leader of a political party stands up and has to say? no, i don't with draw it. >> oh, yeah. >> we do talk about a fart in the room. >> she put it on the map. alberta. come on. >> so in the end, the presiding

office declined to make the mp with draw. >> why should she? she was making a good point. >> if trump said that that would be the tenth least offensive thing he said of the day. >> yeah, and by the way, boy, this press meeting, beat the press meeting, and we'll talk about that when we come back. the whole anchor man thing, and they start throwing tridents at everybody, and that got out of hand quickly. up next, donald trump is hardly one for political traditions and that's raising flags for the reporters, all of them who cover the white house. we will talk to the association's president next on "morning joe." before danny got what he was dreaming about for the holidays. before his mom earned 1% cash back everywhere, every time. [ dinosaur growls ] and his dad earned 2% back

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he wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad.

male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. the former texas governor, rick perry, was set to meet with donald trump today and rumored to be under secretaconsideratio secretary of defense. on one hand, he runs a big

economy and on the other hand. >> well, there is that. was that a joke or real? >> that was real. >> that was rick perry? no, no, no. >> yep. >> if you want attention in the age of trump, that's what you got to do. >> that's true. donald trump was expected to meet with the "new york times" today, by the way, following his meeting with the other members of the press in trump tower, which is reported to have been a little crazy. he tweeted i cancelled today's meeting with the failing new york times when the terms and conditions of the meeting changed at the last moment, not nice. perhaps a new meeting will be set up with the new york times and in the meantime they continue to cover me inaccurately and with a nasty tone. >> what do you think about that meeting, donny, yesterday of all the executives? >> it reads really harsh. >> and i talked to several participants in the press that said he was not upset and he was

not yelling, and he shook everybody's hand and introduced them and talked to them calmly, and then he said all of these really harsh things, and he said you guys lied about me and none of you got it right and did not give me a path to 270, and after it was over, he got up and shook hands, and he said something about zac subger, and it showed they had a friendship in the past and he was still talking to his old friend. >> what i read gave me a yucky feeling and i am not going to say this is the beginning of fascism, and there is something concerning when the president-elect brings the media in the room and scold them, and by the way, cnn made donald trump in the first -- >> i think donald trump made

donald trump. >> that's a fair statement. and he doesn't like the picture they use on nbc because he has a double chin if that >> you guys laugh about that, and. >> i'm not laughing about that. >> we are public figures. i had a newspaper in my old district that hated me, and when they had nothing else to do they would get the worst pictures of me and my family, and i won the last election with 80%, and i will find a picture and show you tomorrow, and they found the one picture where we looked like we were at a funeral, my entire family. he's got a point. if you are a public figure -- >> please, joe, let me finish. this goes on to one more thing that we normalize, i was dissturbed and concerned, our president, as it was reported, chastised and yelling and you

can't cover me this way, cover me this way, and that's not who we are. and he has been brilliant -- >> hold on. i don't think he was yelling yesterday. if anybody has reporting in the contrary, and it was a tone -- >> is david ignatius still with us? >> i would say right now, i would never do that in a billion years, and it was the most one-sided skewed coverage where you had people writing front page stories tweeting 20 tweets a day attacking donald trump. there has to be it going the other way as well. >> and he said you didn't give me a path to 270, and nobody did. >> and he was giving hour speeches when he was 2% in the polls. >> donald trump created donald trump off the media and he played the media and continues

to do it, and for us to sit here and say -- >> donny, are you going to sit here and say cnn made donald trump is laughable. >> cnn for the first nine -- donald trump was getting hour-long speeches when he was 2% because he rated. >> was it cnn's -- >> who made that happen? >> was it cnn's fault he rated? that's what people wanted to see and that's why he got elected. >> he's the best show on earth, and to sit here and say concerned with our president lashing out at the media -- >> donny, don't set up false choices. we're fought saying that. we're not saying that. i am saying if any human being were in donald trump's position, and the media had lied about him and his chances of winning and the media said he had a 1%

chance -- >> every poll had it wrong. >> please. through the entire primary process, "the new york times," they were at 1%, 2%, 4%, and ceiling is 5%, and 10%, and they said he would never get in the race and it was constant and he gave them a lot of things to write about by saying a lot of horrible things which we attack, and i will say the last month, mika and i both said it right here, the press is so overwhelmingly negative and unified against him and being so oppositional in their reporting that you actually are going to help donald trump, first of all, and secondly, the media is going to damage their own representation in the long run and i think they have done it. how can you tell your viewers for a year something is not going to happen every single night and then, josh, it

happens? how do you gain their respect back? >> it's a fair point but there's something else going on here. we never had a president that is more savvy and more wildly operator when it comes to the media and donald trump. this is like a brush back pitch in baseball, and he's asserting himself and saying i will not have the normal relesionship where we all come together and i ask you for nice coverage, and that's what some of trump's advisers would happen, a reset, and you saw that term in the press and what trump wanted to come in and do is assert himself and say you were wrong and i was right and remember it, and these are going to be the terms of our relationship going forward. >> well said. >> and david ignatius, this is a continuing step where it's the continued message, and we remember a time when getting the white house assignment was the most exciting assignment in washington and sam donaldson,

and everybody would fight over getting the news, and it has not been that way during the obama administration, and it has been buttoned up, and now you get donald trump, and he can go over everybody's head. >> trump is a master of communicating his own message directly. every president, especially at this stage wants to try and condition the media to cover my themes, my message, and he's thinking about how he is going to govern the country, and never seen a president that has not tried this in some form of other and not always calling in all of the executives and what presidents learn, in our system you have to deal with the free and open media. it drives presidents crazy. every single president i ever covered goes nuts at the stories written about them and the leaks, and the question is

overreacting to them, and we have gotten in trouble when presidents overreacted to the leaks, and it's a disruption in the communication stream. i was also bothered about the tweet about the protest from the "hamilton" cast, and you can see the talented kids on broadway and delivering a speech to the vice president, and the vice president didn't mind, and then pence said, gosh, i thought it was a great show. that's what you would like people to say. that would be my one fear. >> again, and i can't believe i am saying this to david ignatius, and i think we are motoring too much on what we think the president should do. let's calm down and see how it plays out and let's pretend that we don't know how it's going to go and wait.

do you remember the love affair with obama and the press, and everybody was like, and -- >> where do i begin? >> trump, whether he got coverage or not, access or not, he created that platform by himself. i am not complimenting him, and the media coverage of trump is no different than the coverage of barack obama the candidate when he rose up out of nowhere, and everybody fell in love with him and it was really hard for everybody else to get any other oxygen in the room. joining us in washington, jeff mason, he serves as president of the white house correspondents association. what do you hear about what happened inside that meeting and chime in on this conversation? >> i have not heard what happened inside the meeting that you have not discussed but my contribution to the discussion would be in order to cover the story and in order to cover the president-elect we need to have

a pool of reporters that are present and there when the entire press corp. can't be there, and that's something the association has pressed for and there's confusion sometimes in the public about why that is necessary, but if you look back at our history, we have had a press pool present when disasters and tragedies have happened to the president, and when john f. kennedy was shot and ronald reagan was shot, and also there for the joys and the victories of the president as well. >> he went out, i guess, went out to 21 and there was not a press pool there, and went out to dinner. has there been any discussion with you guys and the trump transition team to make sure that doesn't happen again? >> yeah, we have certainly reached out to them and expressed our feelings about it, and the trump team has said they will respect the traditions of having a white house pool when he gets to the white house and they are making progress on

having one now, and the president-elect is going to florida today, and they have put together a pool that will be able to cover that trip and to cover him when he's there, and we're not on his plane, and that's something that is very important to the press corp. as well, and they are taking steps in that direction and i am cautiously optimistic that will continue. >> this is not directed to barack obama but this is more of a trend from bush to obama and now to trump about the decreasing access that white house correspondents have at the white house? >> absolutely. and, you know, any journalist wants to have access to the person or the people or the institution that he or she is covering, and that's -- there's no more important place in the white house for that kind of access. that's what we push for all the time. sure, there's a constant frustration. part of it has to do with the

changing media that you were just talking about. >> we were talking about this last week, and i know he definitely broke sort of policy or rank or whatever the tradition is by going to the 21 club, and then mike barnicle chimed in and said obama goes golfing and the press pool sits at the burger king. is that okay? >> you always want them to know where the president is? >> if something happens they are not there. >> but they know where the president is. >> that's right. i would jump in and say, we're not asking to be at the table at the 21 club and we are not asking to be on the golf course with the president, and we would love to be, but that's not what we really expect, we expect to be present and nearby if something were to happen. >> know where he is at all times? >> right. >> jeff mason, thank you so much. and it's going to be an interesting four years. >> oh, wow. >> to say the least. you brought up the greatest

point in the world, and what do i always say to you? >> she's the smartest and the best person on the show. >> why are you making fun of me? >> what have i told you the show should be called 1,000 times. >> morning mika. >> am mika. >> this is going to -- let's go to break. >> you bring up the great point, trump, trump, cnn invented trump, and trump invented trump. >> "morning joe" invented trump. no, we're not that powerful. joe, if we elected trump all the trump voters would be watching and we would have the morning show in the world. >> we do, don't we? >> no, we don't. we're not even close. >> and if you count in, arms forced radio, and that's another 87 million. let me get to my point.

i miss regis. let me get to my point. everybody is fixated on obama, and who was the celebrity bigger than britney spears, and who was the person that the media followed around, and little hearts coming up. >> it was the greatest story, the greatest political story on earth and they couldn't pass it up. >> mika, listen, no doubt after every debate you -- stop making the faces. >> josh things i am making a point. >> all i heard in 2008 was a scream of clinton staffers on the phone. >> and the president did not call in herself, ever, which is problematic. >> she might now. >> as we bring the cessna in with one wing -- >> we have to beg.

>> i want to finish this point if that's okay. the fact is, barack obama got all of the attention and hillary clinton was next, and you had after every debate us saying the same thing, and the winners of every single debate were joe biden and chris dodd, and nobody else was close on points, and nobody paid attention to them because they were too old white guys. >> they didn't rate. >> they were the most qualified guys to be president of the united states, and they gave the best debates and should have won the democratic nomination. >> one should be president right now. >> but the press would not follow them because they were not a good show. we'll be right back. we are landed. holy moly.

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on friday night, his running mate, mike pence went to see "hamilton," and then afterwards during the curtain call read a message on behalf of the show. this is what he said on.

>> we really enjoyed being there, and i can tell you, i was not offended by what was said. >> that's how you memorize lines, by the way. mike pence was not offended, but donald trump was. why do i feel like we will see a lot more of this dynamic. and the cast agreed to apologize as soon as trump apologizes to the following parties. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> has he apologized for calling you tphaoinner rottic. >> no, but i decided to let it

go. >> not very smart, neurotic, and psych yo, and -- there was another good one. still with us -- i have been called worse, you know. we have herald ford, jr., and josh green, and columnist and associate editor of the "washington post," david ignatius, and joining the table, michael schmitt. i guess the meeting was canceled. i was just talking about -- we were talking about bias. you are a reminder that the "new york times" is so biassed for hillary clinton that you broke the e-mail investigation and you just kept hammering it day after day after day, which made your mother say? >> we took a lot of criticism, and in march of 2015, i came

home after breaking the story, and my mother turns and says, when jeb bush is president, we will have you to blame. somebody at temple was asking me, colin powell did it too, and how do i respond? it never seems to end. >> you just have to do your job. >> my mother kept saying all of these -- you know, the fake news, and people act like fake news is new, and no, fake news has been around forever. and my mother would send a e-mail every day and say i can't believe this, and it's horrible. can you believe 248 people in congress have been arrested or indicted? 172 are bankrupt. 48 have killed dogs by kicking them to death. it's just the worst stuff, and you are like, mom, stop, those are all lies.

>> this is captures in the e-mail universe, please stop sending this stuff. >> and those are in the old days when it was generated by e-mail and not facebook, when 500 million people see it. >> the fake stuff drives me crazy, it does, and i wish it would stop. i wish the stories that they make up on facebook would stop, too. >> okay. >> can we get to our top story since it breaking news, please. does your family hold you responsible for -- >> my mother criticized the coverage and my father understood it a lot more, but she's a big democrat. >> does she blame you for donald trump? >> on friday, she was still giving me a hard time about it. >> how is thanksgiving going to be? do we need counseling? >> i was sitting with trump out at the golf course, and this reporter, who i just met turns to me and goes, it's all your

fault. so it doesn't end, but that's okay, and it's part of the job. >> we begin now with breaking news, a source with direct knowledge of donald trump's thinking tells "morning joe" that the president-elect will not pursue any investigations into hillary clinton for her use of a private e-mail server and also for the questions surrounding the clinton foundation. the source tells "morning joe" that trump feels clinton as, quote, been through enough. this development comes after he said"60 minutes" ten days ago. >> she did bad things. >> a special prosecutor? >> i don't want to hurt them. i don't want to hurt them. they're good people. i don't want to hurt them. >> it's awfully good that somebody with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> because you would be in jail. >> oh, there is that during the

debate, and of course there was the lock her up cry as well, and so -- >> the fbi reiterated it's stance from july not to pursue the investigation against clinton. >> i think they were looking toward a clinton administration, and i don't think they had any concept of what was going to happen here and it would have been trump who made this decision. >> yeah, and david ignatius, let's bring you in here. i don't think you can say they are echos of 1974 when ford pardoned nixon, and at the same time there will be members of trump base that will be angry he did this, and you don't want to go into a new year chasing somebody out of public life. it's just not good for the country. >> there are two reasons why this make sense. one, it's not seamly for an incoming administration to seek

to prosecute the actions of his rival in the election, and it doesn't look good and it's what happens in banana republics, so there's the optics, and secondly, and it's important to stress this, and what comey said remains operative, and attorneys i talk to say this is correct, and simply there are not facts in the case that would lead any reasonable prosecutor to bring a case, and you don't have criminal intent and you don't have the leak of the classified information in a way that was damaging, and all the things you look at in trying to decide whether this was administrative, and she did something stupid, and criminal, not a lot of evidence of criminal, and so in saying he's not going to investigate it, probably not going to investigate that serious professionals said would not hold up in front of a jury

anyway. >> and the fbi is not going to like this for the foundation as well, and comey is going to say, this is politics, step aside, and we are going to follow the facts here. >> isn't it interesting the trump team refused to give comey basically the good -- the housekeeping seal of approval and i suspect it's because comey's fbi wants to investigate the foundation and tear into it and trump is saying now, no. >> i don't think comey cares, and if trump is going to go ahead and fire comey, i think comey realizes the political ramificati ramification for trump on that, and that's not going to fly. >> what do you think, herald? >> it's over. move on to policy and the recommendations he's going to make for the nomination. i never thought there was anything there, and i can appreciate what michael did in terms of uncover the story, and

comey's team investigated it, and it was became a rallying cry, lock her up, and i think david's point is probably the most compelling, and mr. comey's team, after injecting themselves again in the race came back to say there's nothing there. i take them at their word. >> there's still a lot of people in new york that think that, josh, they have something there, as michael said, when it comes to the foundation, and there's been in-fighting in the fbi for sometime now whether they continue those investigations or not, and that brings in the entire family and i think it gets dirty and messy, and a lot of people, the republican party won't like it and some people on the hill won't like it and the base won't like it. >> people in the trump administration won't like it. >> and people in the trump administration, but at some point you need to move forward. >> do you, and i think comey himself on one level would not want this out there being hashed

out in the media, and all of that criticism coming back. and the headline of the day, donations of the clinton foundation down 37% less. this is sunsetting of an issue of importance in national politics because clinton is not the president and is not going to be. >> and trump also says in the report, they have been through enough. >> on the foundation, if you are investigating the clinton foundation, why aren't you investigating the trump foundation? people say the allegations about the trump foundation are far worst than the clinton foundation, and there's better evidence there. >> there you go. >> settled. doesn't have the time. >> this would be the end-all of clinton investigations. what is this? 25 years? >> i don't know, the clintons are the clintons and they will figure something else. >> i don't think -- >> it seems to me, saw

especially if you are trump and david ignatius, and you are trying to reach across the aisle and you are, as i said before, more culturally aligned with chuck schumer than paul ryan, and you are not going to be wanting to be dealing with the investigations of the clintons and you are trying to push through an infrastructure bill. >> it's obvious that trump is focusing on trying to figure out how to be a good president. i'm not sure he gave a whole lot of attention to how to govern when he was running. he was just running as hard as he could, and there was all this, and now he is thinking about how to govern the country, and that's the right thing -- and he's deciding to put aside the lock her up rhetorical bonanza he had during the campaign because it doesn't help him to govern, and that's a smart decision. >> nbc news reports that rudy guiliani is being considered for director of national

intelligence now. let's bring in nbc news pentagon correspondent, hans nichols, joining us from the white house this morning. what are you hearing about the latest potential role for rudy guiliani? >> reporter: good morning, guys. we are hearing from two people familiar with the information, and rudy guiliani could be slotted over, and he is still available for secretary of state, but guys, let's say a week ago, nine or ten days ago, everybody assumed jeff sessions would get the attorney general job, and rudy guiliani was going to get secretary of state, and one of those things has happened and it seems like there's a hold up on secretary of state, and this for mr. trump solves the rudy loyalty program. what do you give him? do you put him at dni, testifying before congress and your managing intelligence, and it makes some sense. here's the caveat we always give. we don't know, and nothing is

final and i will caution on all of this because this is a moving train and trying to describe it can be somewhat difficult. >> it sure can, hans. thank you so much, hans nichols, at the white house. >> david, a week ago we were getting press reports and everybody was reporting furiously that john bolton was in line to be secretary of state and that we were just hours away from that, and that didn't happen, and then we heard guiliani, and that has not happened yet and it's still active here and we really don't know, but it seems to me that with this job, the dni job, as you said last hour, rudy is ill equipped as ill equipped to handle that job as he is to handle secretary of state. >> i am surprised by this leak because we have had some experience now with the dni job, and it's very technical, the person that finally made it work, jim clapper has run a half

dozen different intelligence agencies and that's why reaching across the 17 agencies that come under the bureaucratic umbrella, he had success, and if he would design a job that wouldn't fit rudy guiliani's skill set, and i am surprised and it looks like looking for somebody you decide you are not going to give the top job he wanted, and we have dni still sitting around, and you have to be careful because putting the wrong person in that fight will set up an immediate fight between that person and the fbi director. you have to be careful. >> you look at what trump has done, herald, as far as foreign policy goes, and he is looking at mattis at dod, and pompeo at cia, and he is taking these positions seriously. i find it hard to believe that he's going to move him over to

dni when that is an extremely difficult job, and if he can't handle secretary of state he certainly can't handle dni. >> and the same concerns you have enumerated this morning, and even more in an acute and concerning ways, and it can't be reiterated enough, and he indicated yesterday, trump, president-elect, you need somebody to negotiate about agreements, and the comments he made about nato, and it would send a message to the world that you are willing to make a shift, and he talked about nuclear weapons, and choosing a mitt romney who made critical comments about his campaign, and it would send a message to the

world that america is open for business, and he has obama to thank for the work he has done in the last week reassuring world leaders trump can be trusted. >> and he must have him in a high position, and rudy guiliani has said so himself, and i never heard of something like this before where somebody gets to say what they get, but i guess that's going to happen in this case. >> he says it publicly. >> it presents a problem for trump. if you want to reward this guy with a high level job, and it's like musical chairs, and there's only so many places to put him, and they are running out of spots. >> it doesn't seem like trump to be so beholdened to somebody. but maybe he is. >> look at chris christie, he had two indictments, and maybe christie gets a position but i

suspect he won't and he had to do that for his presidency, and chris christie would have done the same thing, and you have the same thing with newt gingrich, and he was like he wanted to be in harry potter's ministry of magic, and bring in the cape. >> can you make rudy homeland security. >> i don't know if he wants it. >> he tells trump what he wants and he gets it. >> but trump has been loyal so far. flint is a big loyalty pick. >> which is probably the biggest reason why mitt romney needs to be at state, because flynn is nsa director and if you are surround flynn with general mattis and pompeo and mitt romney, the republic just may survive four years. >> that's a team of rivals approach, and we have not seen that yet and he has not gone towards the middle but towards his base. >> if you look at who else he is looking at, the interesting people he brought in, he is

bringing in democrats, and michelle rhee, and trump on some level wants to pull in a wider coalition of people and not identify himself just as, you know, an aggressive hawk who situates himself in the right republican party. >> but the situation so far have all been to the base. even yesterday, the stuff he talked about. >> you look at mattis -- >> i would argue mattis is not a base. i would agree with you with everything else, but not mattis. >> he was pushed out of the obama administration. >> and certainly the foreign policy establishment in washington knows who these people are. that's why i think mitt romney would be a stretch for him and it would be extraordinarily important for him. what would your mom think of that? >> michael schmitts final word on "morning joe" is this. >> i don't know.

this is very hard to predict any of this stuff going forward. yesterday he went around the whole media and was able to have his own message to the press in that video he released. >> obama did that. >> it's true. you don't know what he's going to do on a day-to-day basis, and i had to stand out there two days at the golf course, and create the show, and it's a different show every day. >> i told you, there are two things you know about donald trump, and that's all we know. he likes to leave people guessing and he's usually the last guy in the room, unless rudy is there. >> he's not different than most president-elects. >> as far as press conferences, obama had a press conference three days after, and reagan had one of the next day, and the longest was bill clinton with nine days, and he has not had the press conference, and people around him right now saying less is more. >> no doubt about it, and i

think the less he talks -- he's unique in that regard, and he pulled back some of the tweets, although the "hamilton" thing was out of line. >> can you broadcast your message through youtube and facebook, and look at his candidacy, and he figured out how to do it. >> yes, he has. >> "new york times," michael schmitt -- i am being yelled at. >> we need a "morning joe" at "hamilton." >> have you seen it? >> no. i would like to see it. >> you have fought seen it yet? >> no. >> oh, my god. my 13-year-old daughter goes around singing it. >> david, thank you so much. still ahead on -- >> david, have you seen "hamilton" yet? >> i want one of the boycotted tickets. >> if the boycott goes into affect, everybody will be able to afford more tickets. >> you would love it.

>> make me an offer. >> if they don't lecture you at the end for sitting next to me, we will go. it's really -- it's a remarkable show. >> mika's our insurance plan. >> there you go. still ahead on "morning joe," the woman that helped lead donald trump to victory, his campaign manager, kellyanne conway joins us, and bernie sanders says it's time for the democrats to move beyond identity politics, and we will talk to one of the leading progressive groups. you are watching "morning joe," and we'll be right back. (man) my dad and i have the same eyes.

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i think there are many people in the working class who say, you know what? maybe we are better off today than we were eight years ago, but i am still working two or three jobs and my kid can't afford to go to college and my real wages have been going down for 40 years, and middle class is shrinking and who is standing up for me? democratic party for me?

are they going to take on wall street and the drug companies that are ripping me off? and the perception was, no, they would not. >> joining us now the president of the public policy organization, demos, heather, and ben is with us, and washington columnist, kristin sanderson. good to have you here. bernie, go. come on. >> we can talk about bernie in a second, but let's talk about what is in front of us. a trump administration. what does donald trump -- what do people in his administration need to tell america to calm the waters? >> yeah, and less than a quarter of eligible voters voted for donald trump, so he's an extremely unpopular president mandating, and you got what he

did on youtube, jobs and trade and nobody disagrees with, and then you see the people he is putting in place, and chris co-vac is like the villain, and he is linked to white national groups. >> he has? >> yes, he has. he's the architect behind the show your papers law, and behind the law to restrict the vote in kansas that required people to have prove of citizenship, like a passport or birth certificate when they go to get registered to vote. >> i did not know about the white nationalism stuff. >> there's a short techtion between anti-immigrant groups about keeping the country

pure -- e white. >> and some of the funders who speak about that, and there was a white nationalist group he spoke on a panel at, and it keeps people of color and immigrants up at night. people have to tell their children, no, they won't take you. and he has not spoken about it as much, who he is appointing is showing. >> that inaugural speech will be important. >> and sessions is the other one, right, and really down the line has been as frightening as can you get. >> joe, you speak to donald and it would make so much sense in his first speech to just address that. it would go so long because people are not concerned about what he's going to do with nafta, and people are concerned -- people in the country are literally afraid,

and what happened in the campaign in the earlier appointments, he needs to address that head on. >> as heather said, you look at what he is talking about, and he is talking about infrastructure, and he's talking about skilled jobs, and he's talking about things that bind americans together. maybe that's why, you know, he's been more restrained in the things he said and his approval ratings in some poll that was out yesterday, he's up to 42%, and to get that up to 50%, and to really have a coalition that can dominate washington, d.c. seems to me, kristin, you need to -- donald trump needs to calm that waters on these fronts, and they put out a statement about they are against all racism and donald trump looked at the camera on "60 minutes" and said stop it on the fighting, but at the same time it seems a really strong statement speaking out

against these hate groups especially would go a long, long way. >> well, this is the power of the bully pulpit that donald trump now has. thus far, he has circumvented the things like traditional media to speak to the voters and now he has the most important platform in the world and that's the presidency of the united states. you have an election where a lot of people voted for him and are proud of that vote and excited to see where he takes america, there are a lot of folks that are afraid and as the president you uniquely have the ability to set the tone. none of the moves he made have been surprising in my view, and none of the picks in the cabinet have been the rhetoric he used to the campaign trail, and it's an open question, is he going to govern exactly like his campaign rhett reuboric suggests, and tha

chance with those remaining picks he can go a different direction. >> and that's something we have seen move away on the breaking news this morning about hillary clinton, and pompeo, and mattis on defense. >> how long have we been trying to read the tea leaves? >> he's incredibly reluctant to disavow people -- >> they put out a statement after that. >> when pressed. >> they put out a statement. again, it's -- here's the statement. president-elect -- yeah, they put out a statement. donny and i, though, can tell you that we know a different donald than the donald that was on the campaign trail and the question a lot of people are

asking that know him and have known him in new york, which one is going to show up in the white house? when i see general mattis and i see pompeo, i think, oh, okay, the guy that wants to win more than anything. when i see chris co-bat and rudy guiliani, i get concerned. if he appoints those two people we will be jumping up and down and concerned here. it's not he is going to turn on a dime, but which donald trump will show up. the tv -- >> that is the one we elected. >> that has to be figured out. >> and this is a few -- this seems to be happening. and the all the right are white supremecists, and neonazis. >> why are they allowed to go

inside a federal building? did i read that right? >> no, they were outside. >> they were in the ronald reagan building. >> why are we allowing hate groups like that to go into buildings where taxpayers are paying money for that? >> well, steve bannon is the chief adviser. donald trump allowed hate groups into the mainstream of our politics and discourse and now into the white house. i think having a conference at the ronald reagan center is the least of it and i don't want them writing policy for this diverse country. >> heather, while you are talking, bernie sanders, love to get a sense of where you think his placement should be as we move forward, and also there's a lot of talk about changing up the leadership in the democratic party, and in congress and in the party structure. isn't it time for changes? >> i think it's definitely time for changes. >> at least let him get to 80

before you push him out, all right? >> we got this debate right now within the democratic party and the left, which i think is a false one, right, and it's the one that bernie sanders caught a lot of flack for yesterday, this idea that democrats need to turn to talking to the white working class because donald trump, you know, beat the democrats among the white working class, and there's so many falsities to that, and one, the idea if you appeal to the struggling families of race, you have to stop talking about race. and it's women and people of color and immigrants and it's not the white male in a hard hat that is in our imagination, and it's a nurse's aide making $8 an hour. >> and bernie said we need to do a better job with the white working class and male voters, and rendell said the same thing, and sure enough, michigan,

wisconsin -- >> i don't think we can do it by disavowing the base of the democratic party today or not talking about race. donald trump talked about race every single time he got to the stupl and that's the problem, and democrats think to talk to white people about class that means they have to forget about race altogether. republicans never make that mistake, and they talk about race all the time. why did you lose your job? a person of color. why are you scared and insecure at night? a muslim, right. we have to have a story that integrates race and it's not about demonizing other people. >> if i can take exception to that, the republican dominates all levels of government now, and there are a lot of people like rob portman in ohio that didn't talk that way, and a lot of people like paul ryan that did not talk that way. and i don't think it's that simple. i don't think republicans across the country ran racially --

>> donald trump made what was a dog whistle into a bullhorn, and paul ryan when he talks about inner city people that don't -- who are in a hammock and don't work, and it's not saying all mexicans are rapist the way donald trump did, and -- when you close your eyes, what race do you see? when you think of takers and the 47% and you think of welfare. >> paul ryan, i have to say, nobody has talked in my republican party, and chris, i will go to you, about poverty more than paul ryan and said he we missed out more than paul ryan, and one of the things that are fascinating, when he talked about welfare queens, an image would conjure up in white america's mind, and that's not the case now. when you talk about makers and takers, a lot of people thinking about poor white people and the

appalachian region. i think it's having to do -- >> complicated. >> it's getting more complicated by the day when you have white working class americans with the life expectancy dropping, and drug usage soaring, and i think there's enough dysfunction to go around now to all races. >> sure, and i think, you know, for paul ryan, he came out and disavowed, and he said i said the makers and takers stuff before and that's not the right thing to use, and he's turned his focus to the whole better way plan, now that there is a president in the white house that might sign legislation, and a chance to look at new ways of tackling challenges like poverty that republicans never would have been able to approach before. a challenge for somebody like a paul ryan, to your point about who the makers and takers would be for using that rhetoric, and

it's something like medicare reform, and something for a long time has been a priority for paul ryan, and to what extent does that have friction with the new coalition donald trump put together where a lot will say get your government hands off my medicare and there's a new friction with the coalition trump put together. >> i have to say again, even with alex screaming we have to go to break, my favorite poll was of tea party members in 2009 during the height of obamacare, and didn't want the federal government involved in their health care, and also said at the same poll, there should be absolutely positively no changes to their medicare, keep your hands off my medicare, government. >> we have two guests coming up, and i have to say with respect to what you were saying, you made incredible points and it's a bigger conversation. you will have to come back. >> i don't know. thank you all. more "morning joe" in just a moment.

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joining us now, former campaign manager for donald trump's winning bid for the white house and now senior adviser to the transition team,

kellyanne conway. that's quite a title. here we are. is rudy guiliani going to be dni? >> possibly. >> what has rudy told you? >> i talked to him on sunday and -- >> you are missing my point. >> it's not up to the mayor. >> the president-elect will make the decision. as it should be. and donald trump is not going to be pursuing an investigation against hillary clinton, and do you think he will focus more on the agenda. >> when the president tells you he doesn't wish to pursue the charges, and it sends a strong message. i think hillary clinton still has to face the fact that a majority of americans don't find her to be honest or trustworthy,

but if trump can help her heal, perhaps that's a good thing. he's thinking of many different things as he prepares to become the president of the united states, and things that sound like the campaign are not among them. >> and tell us what is going on in the press? traditionally presidents somen in the press. >> we buried the hatchet in the backs of most of the tv anchors, and what was the purpose of the meeting and did it go off -- >> i have a different view of the meeting having sat there and helped organize it. i thought it was a very lively and spirited exchange. >> no debate on that, right? >> from my perspective it's simple. president trump and the media have to share joint custody of

the nation and its people for the next four years, and it's highly productive in everybody's interest to find a way to do that. it was a very hard-fought and long campaign and bruising and i believe donald trump received an unprecedented deluge of criticism, and he is the president and they are the press and they have to find a way to mutually assure nondestruction, and what is being covered, i don't know why people feel they need to divulge the meeting, and -- >> it was not as hostile as it read in "the posts." >> yeah, and there was a

receiving line for steve bannon, and there's breaking news for you. many people wanted to meet him and talk to him and meek eye contact and exchange business cards and that's a fact, and there was a lot of congenial conversation outside of the room where we were and nobody left in a huff and nobody called me and complained they felt that they had been bam pwaouz kwruld. >> during the meeting i heard that there were even nice sides to zucker. >> he can be neurotic one moment and then --

>> i sat between the two of them, and that's just false. that's false. and actually not to divulge -- it was an amazing meeting and i am glad nbc was well represented there, and after the meeting jeff and donald trump went back up to donald trump's office, because cnn was taking pictures, and know it's good for clicks -- >> it's really good for clicks. >> the president-elect made news with the video talking about tpp and the things he might do in the first couple of days, i guess, and if indeed the president wants to intkpwaupblg with tpp, can we interpret from that a mitt romney kind of secretary of state is coming and maybe not a rudy guiliani kind of secretary of state is coming? >> well, rudy guiliani and mitt romney and donald trump all have that in common, and they are

successful businessmen and job creators and tough negotiators, and what happens with tpp will be the total call of president-elect trump and he made it a huge priority in the video, because it's something he ran on and it created a 60sam in the republican party, and and you had ted cruz changing his mind on it, and it was a big fault line within the party in terms of are you on this side or that side of it, and whoever he has as his secretary of state and throughout his cabin, herald -- >> i am not being critical, and it gives democrats and others like me comfort that he is willing to reach out and forgive those and -- >> oh, that for sure. >> that's where i was coming from. >> everybody should take a really hard and long look at what has happened in the last two weeks, and he started out that night saying i am going to be the president of all americans, including those that

did not vote for me, and since then he has had bob johnson from bet, and these have been incredibly inspiring meetings for him, and most of them are not seeking that, and i have to tell as somebody is there, and they are seeking to talk to the president-elect early in his formation, and giving advice and counsel. >> we have to go to break, unfortunately. >> we have to go to break. we are way over. we have thomas freeman up next. we want to thank you and donald for making sure that ari emanuel was only there to advice and consent and not have a position. >> it was question. >> thomas friedman joins us next, and he says there's a direct line from the rise of smart phones to brexit and the election of donald trump, and he'll explain that ahead.

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let's bring in right now

"the new york times" columnist thomas friedman. his new book is thank you for being late. and thank you so much. great honor to have you here today. talk about these accelerations. you say there are three. >> what is reshaping the world, not just changing the world, but reshaping politics, geopolitics, the community, is the fact we're in the middle of three vast accelerations at the same time in what i call the market, mother nature, and mother's law. the market is digital global zashz. not your grandfather's globalization, but facebook, twitter, paypal. moore's law is the microchips were double every couple months. globalization looks like a hockey stick, and mother nature, by diversity loss, climate change, that's a hockey stick. we're in the middle of three hockey stick accelerations at the same time with the three largest forces on the planet. >> let's talk about how that plays into politics.

i always love ticking off what's happened in the past decade. 2004, the permanent republican majority. karl rove said 2006, nancy pelosi, 2008, the obama revolution. around for a generation. two years latereri, the tea par. two years later, obama is re-ele re-elected. now trump destroys boat parties. it usually takes a generation for a party to take power. now it takes two years. >> i think what's going on in our politics is both parties are blowing up. >> seeing the end of the parties. >> and the reason is these parties were formed rnd the industrial revolution, the new deal, early i.t. revolution, civil rights. what you have to -- >> also organizing around this hulking land mass. the best way to organize a party. >> what you have to respond to is these accelerations. how we enable each citizen to get the most out of them. when the middle of that transformation across the whole

western world, not just here. >> world of order, world of disorder. you divide the world in that way. how do you reconcile the two? >> so basically, what these accelerations are doing is blowing up weak states. we took a few down, others are blowing up on their own. that's creating a vast world of disorder. the mediterranean mau is the dividing line. what you see in the world today are 10s of really millions of people trying to get out of the world of disorder into the world of order. it's happening in our hemisphere as well. >> is it a threat to great britain with trump's protectionism, can it slow it down? >> i don't think it can, actually. what happened in our election i think is such a reflection of the fact that these accelerations are making people feel unmoored. i live in a country in america, in the countryside. i go to the grocery store, there are people speaking a different language, dressed fferently.

i go to a public bathroom, there's people who don't look like they should be there. i go to work, there's a robot studying my job. two things that anchor my world, my community and my job, they're both in such a vast process of transformation. there's lot of people who feel unmoored. the trump phenomena, the brexit phenomena. somebody please put up a wall against these accelerations are reflections of that. >> you wrote one of your landmark books, the lexus and olive tree 1999, in talking about the olive tree. right now in 2016, 17 years later, it seems like a lot of people in america and britain and going to be france next, then italy, then germany. they're grabbing hold to the base of the olive tree. >> that book was the tension between the two. and it really runs through our politics. my book has a theme song, i tell people. it's by randy carlyle, a wonderful song. it's called eye, and the main refrain is, i wrap your love

around me like a chain, but i never was afraid it would die. you can dance in a hurricane, but only if you're standing in the eye. and i think these accelerations are like a hurricane. and trump and brexit is about putting up a wall to slow them down. i think you have to build an eye. the eye for me is the healthy community. that's a platform of dynamic stability within it. >> did you see trump coming? >> um, i certainly didn't see him coming, but i took him seriously from day one. i never had to apologize. i covered him as he came. i took his -- >> is that the standard now? >> if you're that guy who says there's a 99.99% chance that hillary -- you should eat a bug. >> i felt these accelerations going on. i understood where he was coming from, and i covered him every day, understanding that he could become president of the united states. >> so you saw a path? even like the week before. >> oh, yeah. it was addressed to trump voters saying i'm against this guy but

i'm not guess you. i understand where you're coming from. >> you see where this could happen? very much so. i was afraid of it. >> is it going to happen in italy, in france? is it going to happen in the netherland? >> i think it is. >> germany? >> the thing with accelerations, they keep going until they eventually run out. mother nature isn't slowing down. >> accelerations keep going until you crash. >> i do worry about that. i really worry about that and how we find the balance to anchor people in this world. to me, the one thing that worries me, joe, is that the big question out there is who will have a job? how do we get jobs? so the back part of my book is about my community, i grew up in minnes what anchored me. there's a grszman in minnesota who said growing up in the '50s, '60s, '70s, you needed a plan to fail. there was so much wind at our back. today, you need a plan to succeed. you need to update that plan,

mika, talking about your daughter. everyone now, every six months, you need to update your plan. why worry about -- there are a lot of people who aren't up to that. what is going to be average work for people? so in the 'sgiflts and '60s, there was so much blue collar work, '70s, '80s, we gave people credit cards and home mortgages. then in 2000, these accelerations hit. they wipe out all kinds of blue-collar and white-collar work, and your mortgage and your house went underwater. i think the confluence of those two things together is what produced the constituency for this election. >> thank you for being late is the book. thomas friedman, thank you for not being late. great thoughts. the next hour of "morning joe" starts right now. >> to people who are feeling genuinely anxious about the future, i would tell you, i wish they could be a fly on the wall. in the room, like we were up in

new jersey all weekend long, as one impressive american after another came in, and to see the way our president-elect is asking the tough questions. he's driving forward. he's assembling a team around him. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's tuesday, november 22nd. 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. out west. back with us on set, we have former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> he's my favorite. i have three points about why he's my favorite. good looking, he's smart, and he's really good looking. >> talking points provided to you by the clinton campaign. >> national correspondent for bloomberg business week, josh green. and columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. breaking news, a source with direct knowledge of donald trump's thinking tells "morning joe" in his administration the president-elect will not pursue any investigations into hillary clinton for her use of a private e-mail server and the clinton foundation.

the source tell s mj that trump feels clinton has, quote, been through enough. this development comes after he said this in an interview with "60 minutes" ten days ago. >> i'm going to think about it. she did some bad things. she did some bad things. >> a special prosecutor? >> i don't want to hurt them. i don't want to hurt them. they're good people. i don't want to hurt them. >> the fbi has reiterated its stance from july not to recommend charges against clinton. it remains to be seen how republican leaders will react to this latest news. recall that oversight chairman jason chaffetz said, quote, even before we get to day one, we have two years worth of material already lined up. she has four years of history at the state department, and it's not good. but again, the president-elect has not planned to pursue this. >> that's obviously a big change from the middle of the campaign. harold ford, obviously, in the debate he said that if donald trump wer president of the

united states, hillary clinton would be in jail. it was a quick applause line. scared a lot of people. but here, you actually have not so much of a complete turn because we started to see him moving in this direction in that "60 minutes" interview. now this breaking news. he has absolutely no interest in his administration pursuing any of these investigations. >> people with deep concerns around campaign narrative verses the governing narrative, there's reason for some of those concerns not to be as heightened. this comment about hillary clinton, the comment about the affordable health care system, the candidate trump talking about generals he didn't trust and he knew more than them. he's hiring generals to be in the administration. he expressed concern about big business. those in big business concerned he would deny or reject the time warner/at&t deal. the market is not interpreting

it that way. the nomination of jamie dimond or wilbur ross. >> more likely wilbur ross. >> for these names to come forward suggests there's a different -- >> i'm bringing up jamie because "wall street journal" said jamie dimond and there was a very quick knockdown of that yesterday. i actually heard donald trump say i don't like him. >> well, he called him the worst banker in the world, right? >> people come together. >> you say you're going to appoint a special prosecutor against hillary clinton, he might be able to come back from thinking -- i don'ts think jamie dimond is the worst banker in the world. >> actually, donny, jamie dimond would be at the top of my list. anybody's list. >> donny deutsch, you have the campaign and you have -- you' y got the president-elect here. what do you read into this, such a quick change?

>> there would be nothing to be gained. right now, the country is very divided. i think his main job before anything, before any policy, is to unite. there's a lot of fear in this country. this is one step, once again, saying we don't need to go backwards. we don't need to go after her. he's done a lot of things in terms of some of his appointments, in terms of staying hard right. things i continue to be concerned about. we can never normalize that. but then there's a lot of good things at the same time, also. my view going forward is on the one hand, let us celebrate some of the very smart things he's starting to do, including this one, but ten days out of appointing bannon, flynn, two guys who have histories of certainly being around and supporting racism and misogyny and semitism, we cannot normalize that. as we move forward, go, that's okay. so good news, still bad news. >> tom ricks, who wrote "fiasco." one of the great historians of the iraq war, wrote an article

on foreign policy yesterday about yerl mattis. oh, my god. if tom ricks, if tom ricks feels that way about general mattis, i feel that way about general mattis. ricks, who is just delivered a blistering critique about george w. bush and his eight years in office. says mattis is everything the new administration would need at the pentagon. >> david, let me ask you about general mattis. i was a little concerned when i heard that a guy named mad dog was at the top of the list. >> that would do it. >> but a couple picks here that i have actually been, i think, relezed, i guess is a good word to use, just hearing from the top foreign policy thinkers. pompeo at cia has gotten some good reviews from people i respect and trust. and of course, general mattis i'm hearing the same. what can you tell us about those

two picks? >> on those two, i would re-enforce your positive things that you're hearing. first, general mattis, general mattis is one of the more charismatic, widely trusted commanders we have produced during this years of warfare. he's famously eccentric. this is an aesthetic signal man who never married. goes to sleep at night, it's said, reading arealious in latin because it describes the virtues he thinks are important. he was a tough commander. i think in my many conversations with him over the years, his basic point has been if you're going to employ the military in a combat situation, make sure you have a strategy to prevail. if you don't, then be careful about using the military. i think that's what a lot of our generals want to hear. he's very much that way on the specific question that's come up with donald trump, would he shoot iranian gun boats out of

the water if they were harassing u.s. navy vessels in the gulf, general mattis has taken a hard line position on that issue, saying we need to be tougher with the iranians in these conflict situations, not to say shoot the boats, but he wants a tougher position. they're in accord on that. >> he has some colorful quotes, too, that tom ricks brings up. something like, you have to go in there loving and smiling and hugging and whatever. but be prepared to kill everybody in the room. there's some of them that i can't quote. there's some that are so tough i can't quote. >> let it be said, he sounds like a marine. going to battle. on pompeo, the cia nominee, i met him for the first time a week ago. and i met him, was introduced to him by congressman mike rogers who everyone regards as a

bipartisan, sensible gop conservative. the kind of guy who would have been a good choice for cia. pompeo is well regarded by rogers' friends, staff people. very smart, top of his class at harvard law school, and at west point. former military officer. so i think he's someone, he may have a political agenda. we don't know yet what he brings to cia, but he's somebody who the work force there is likely to look at as the kind of person who would come in and want to be a good intelligence leader. >> some other names nbc news is reporting that rudy giuliani is being considered for director of national intelligence now. his name has already been rumored for secretary of state by rudy giuliani, along with john bolton and mitt romney. here's vice president-elect pengs yesterday. >> all these reports he would consider him for secretary of state. that kind of shocks me. especially when you have somebody like rudy giuliani on

stand-by. >> well, there's a number of people that he's considered for that role. these are two people, both of whom have run for president nationally. i think they're two people that have both said some tough things along the way, but what i saw in that room was in president-elect donald trump and in the graciousness of governor romney brought was two men that are completely focused on the country. >> so i don't know. i don't think it's much of a choice, do you? >> i think -- i think -- >> i'm voting for rudy. >> so is rudy. >> the movie, i mean. i don't know how -- >> listen, problem is, he's not up to the job. and it's hard to say -- >> but he says he is. >> it's hard to say that about somebody you have respected for a long time. people say, wait, what do you have against rudy giuliani? i had a couple people ask. i have nothing against rudy giuliani. but if high mother told me that she wanted to run langley, i love you, ma, it ain't

happening, and it shoouldn't happen. rudy giuliani does not have the experience. >> he says he does. >> he doesn't have the foreign policy knowledge. >> he says he does. >> he does not have the temperament. >> he says he does. >> he does not, and this is where it gets delicate, but according to people close to him, he does not have the energy to do this, and he also is slipping in other areas as well. >> he told the president-elect and the world that he is the one who should get the job. >> according to people all around donald trump, according to people who know rudy giuliani for a long time, this is the worst position to put him in. >> josh? >> for people who know him, it's not even a close call. >> talking to our business week readers, he also has all of these foreign entanglements that present thesis conflict of interest problems that amplify the problems trump himself is having. on the one hand, you have to figure they're going to double down on this narrative that there are conflicts and you have somebody like mitt romney who

not only has a sterling record but would be wildly reassuring to republicans and other people worried about a trump foreign policy. and the democrats also. >> the brilliant move about romney is it gives him so much air cover to do other things that people might automatically shriek and holler about. >> if you appoint romney, that gives you -- if you can say, i have mattis, romney, i have pompeo, that gives you a little more freedom to go to, let's say, somebody that other people may not like as much. >> david ignatius, rudy giuliani has more influence than anybody ever over donald trump to tell him what he's going to get and what he's not going to get, which he has done and then shared publicly, which is beyond me at this point as to how anybody could run their mouth like that. but tell me. how would he be as secretary of state? does that give you any pause?

>> it's a little hard for me to imagine rudy giuliani as secretary of state because he tends to run hot, at least in these years since he's been at the center of public life. he's very emphatic in the comments he makes during the campaign. when i try to think about him in state, i have trouble. in some ways it's even harder to imagine him as director of national intelligence. jim clapper, crusty old 50 year veteran of intelligence work, made it work, but the job itself is a bureaucratic nightmare. it would not suit someone with political views, wanted to contribute to the political debate. it's not the right job for that. so one thing trump has shown, interestingly, is he's prepared to push aside people who have been very close to him, newt gingrich, chris christie, are out in the cold now, to their astonishment, having been key

advisers. i don't know if that will happen to giuliani, but neither position that's being described now seems like just the right fit. >> i have always said that trump is incredibly transactional. those characters, gingrich and giuliani, who served him very well in a flame-throwing campaign, certainly would not serve him well in an administration, and he's willing to make that. >> looking at policy yesterday. the president-elect came out and said he would withdraw us from the tpp. that he would look at regulations and relieve some of that. if you thing about it, the secretary of state, it almost begins to disqualify rudy giuliani because he indicated he would withdraw us from tpp but look to renegotiate in a bilateral way with these nation. of the names who have been surfacing, who is best qualified to do that? mitt romney. >> rudy says he's going to get the job. >> harold, can you imagine the uproar on the hill when rudy

giuliani's name goes up? >> i'm adding to your narrative. the politics are explosive. >> with all of the foreign entanglements, afte after #crookedhillary, after all the talk of using public service to squeeze money out of foreign entities. that's what rudy giuliani spent a decade doing. according to these news reports. it's what he's been doing. the hearings on the senate, in the senate would be an absolute bloodbath. i don't think he would survive them. and you would have a wounded trump administration. they have to find something -- he's a loyalist. >> he has to pick his battles. who do you want to fight over? what battles does he want to expend his political capital on, because there's a lot of people on the hill who still don't like trump. he wants to do a lot of controversial things. >> joe, even based on that analysis, could he survive a hearing for director of national intelligence. >> no. and i don't think -- i think

right now -- >> that's concerns me as much as the secretary of state role because you have access to much more. >> again, i hate to say it. it's the truth and this is the sort of stuff i say and everybody says joe is so mean for saying it, and five years later, people say joe was right. >> you are mean regardless. >> he's not up to the job. he's not up to being secretary of state. he was loyal. i understand that. they have to find a job he's up to, that he's got the energy level for, because his energy level flags. he's got the mental acumen for, the experience for. they have to find that job. and if he doesn't like it, that's just too bad. this is about what's best for donald trump -- >> and the country. >> best about the republican party, the sis what's best about america. this is what's best about the world. rudy strikes out on all of those counts. >> still ahead on "morning joe," bernie sanders is saying it may be time for the democratic party to look past identity politics.

can they do it? >> we'll dig into that. first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> well, this forecast is a changeable. middle of the country has a new storm. still dealing with snow in areas of upstate new york. lorraine, new york, five miles south, officially measured at 37 inches of no. and they had no snow on the ground. they had a record warm november up until about sunday when the cold air moved in. that lake effect snow machine was insane over the last 48 hours. so best luck digging out. everyone out in time for thanksgiving. here's the niew storm on the ma, over the top of kansas. rain changing to snow in colorado. colorado, wyoming, and freezing rain event and sleet mixed in and snow, too, in minnesota, not fun to be driving in. later this afternoon, let's add everything to the mix. chance of severe weather in east texas. maybe even an isolated tornado. they'll probably form over the top of dallas and austin and head to the east. all the problems in the middle of the country we talked ub, we

can play catch-up today in areas of the northeast. this is the wednesday map, the big travel day. st. louis, chicago, showers. a little showers in the west, and for thanksgiving day, looks like the biggest problems will be in the pacific northwest with a new storm system moving in. new york city, we have a day with clear skies and the breeze will be a little lighter today. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. anyone with type 2 diabetes

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i think there are many people in the working class who say, you know what. yeah, maybe we're better off today than we were eight years ago, but i'm still working two or three jobs. my kid can't afford to go college. i can't afford child care. my real wages have been going down for 40 years. middle class is shrinking. who is standing up for me? democratic party there for me? are they going to take on wall street, the drug companies who are ripping me off? the perception was, no, they were not. >> by the way, bernie is talking

about, hey, some people are saying life is better today than it was eight years ago. donny deutsch, eight years ago on this very day, donny deutsch turned 70. >> yeah. donny. >> today is his birthday. >> happy birthday. >> happy birthday, donny. >> you and bernie. >> healthy 78. >> when you take the hgh, it kind of reverses back. so i'm actually 41 today. >> ew. okay. >> me and canseco, we celebrate together. >> the bathroom. >> that sounds like a great -- >> awesome. happy birthday. >> bernie sanders, senator sanders, went even further during remarks on monday in boston. according to boston magazine, while explaining how to fight trump, he told a crowd in part, quote, one of the struggles that you're doing to be seeing in the democratic party is whether we go beyond identity politics. he goes on. it is not good enough for someone to say i'm a latino, vote for me. i have to know whether that

latina is going to stand up with the working class of this country and is going to take on big money interests, he said. this is where there is going to be division within the democratic party. it's not good enough for someone to say, i'm a woman, vote for me. no, that is not good enough. >> who is he talking ability? >> we need someone who has the guts to stand up to wall street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to fossil fuel industry, and people inside the trump transition took note of that. >> bernie sanders today was quoted as saying that he thinks they should stop with identity politics in the democratic party. whoa. he can call. we'll tell him how to do that and win. >> so -- >> yes. >> well. the one thing i will say about bernie sanders, though, is he could have doubled down harder during the debate on the wall street speeches and all those issues that were important to americans, and he was too polite. >> too polite. >> while the system was rigged against him, i think he could have fought a little harder on

those issues. i'm tired of hearing about your e-mails. i'm not going to talk about the speeches. come on. that's what bothered people. i feel like literally the only person on earth who said it, and then was burned at the stake for it, from every level. inside the media and by the clinton campaign and anybody who had a platform. >> think about this. had bernie sanders developed an understanding at least an elementary understanding of foreign policy and national security issues there were times in which he couldn't measure up. had he done that, there was a moment where it looked like the campaign was about to excel past x hillary clinton. i thought he doubled down as hard as he could have, but if he would have shown a grasp of those issues, whoa, nelly. >> i have to ask you before we continue this, did you tell your mother you're going to be on the show today? >> should i call? >> traveling for thanksgiving. >> your mother is such a critic. >> traveling. i forgot. >> why is she so tough on you?

>> because she likes to tune in. >> she knows what channel "morning joe" is on and she likes to tape and watch it. if i forget to tell her, she gets bitter. >> i saw one of your hits on cbs or something like that, she said the lighting was better on cnn. she's a critic. >> a harsh critic. you think those people on twitter are mean. >> she should meet my mother. they would get along very, very well. >> i would like to throw fran deutsche for boca raton in the fight. >> josh, the democratic party, there are questions on whether the democratic party has to move beyond identity politics. it really has been -- listen. somebody told me at the end of the campaign, look at the democrats. i didn't think about it. and you guys are too young to remember this. but a lot of you aren't. certainly donny, he's not young enou enough. >> fdr. >> somebody said the san francisco democrats. 1984.

they got so caught up and so balkanized that they forgot to appeal to all of america. that's exactly what happened in this campaign. they forgot to appeal to all of america. they deal in a sort of stacked one identity group on top of another and forgot the entire picture. >> you remember what walter mondale did in 1984. he had a parade of different ethnic representatives, kind of walk into signal this rainbow coalition that he was trying to assemble. yet, the idea of basically was the same thing, i think, with what clinton was doing. the sum of all these different groups add up to an electoral majority, but what she forgot to do was -- >> there's another issue. no coherence. no coherence to the issue. >> one other issue. and this is, you need the right figure. you know, bernie sanders, hillary clinton, nancy pelosi, they need new faces. you cannot deliver a message, and we saw this with our new president now, without a

compelling transformational figure. beyond the fact that they kind of threw out the baby with the bath water and forgot the core, as they built this rainbow coalition, democrats right now, unless harold is going to run, do not have a compelling, compelling -- they need fresh new faces, and bernie sanders is not that. >> coming up on "morning joe," a provocative new article from forbes. how jared kushner won donald trump the white house. >> i done think donald will like that title. >> we'll talk to the author about his exclusive interview. >> happy thanksgiving, dad-in-law. [vo] quickbooks introduces jeanette.

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they are the natural borns enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful.

on trade, i am going to issue a notification of intent to withdraw from the trans-pacific partnership, a potential disaster for our country. instead, we will negotiate fair, bilateral trade deals that bring jobs and industry back onto american shores. on regulation, i will formulate a role which says that for every one new regulation, two other regulations must be eliminated. so important. on immigration, i will direct

the department of labor to investigate all abuses of visa programs that undercut the american worker. >> that was president-elect donald trump detailing his plans for the first 100 days of his presidency. the 2 1/2-minute video was created and distributed by the president-elect's transition team and was closed to the press. with us, kristen welker, and contributor to "time" magazine and msnbc political analyst, elise jordan. kristen, let's start with you. a bit of a rocky day, i would say, for president-elect trump and the press yesterday. >> right. >> how are the relations between the two sides going? >> look, first of all, this was a major break from tradition to release this video instead of holding a news conference, as president-elect trump's predecessors held news conferences in the first few days of taking office. there's a pressing to hold a

press conference, and he held off meetings with executives from tv networks, top anchors including nbc news and the official line was it was cordial. there was some discussion about how to have a reset, but i think there were some tense mome wants as well. i think this is going to be an ongoing negotiation. to be fair, we have pressed the obama administration for more access. we had some tough moments with that administration as well. but there's no doubt, i think, donald trump is unconventional. he's going to continue to be. this is going to be a challenge going forward. >> he is. elise, how do you see the transition going? obviously, there have been some concerns about some names that have been floated out there. also bib some relief from the defense community when you have james mattis and pompeo filling up a lot of space there. >> well, the james mattis potential pick is interesting just because he's coming off the board of theirinose. i don't see how that transitions well into getting confirmed by congress, getting the waiver. you know, basically, a corrupt

company is where he -- that is the filler in between his service. overall, though, what i'm seeing with these trump foreign policy picks is there isn't a coherent philosophy. what is his foreign policy governing interest? what is he going to push once he's in office? everyone is kind of all over the place. and really, the only connectivity between people is just that they're loyal to trump. so what is his governing philosophy going to be when it comes to protecting the national interests? that's something that i'm hoping that he's going to share more insight on. >> i think there was a lot of kench, not just about -- it seems like mattis was met with, okay, he does have some bipartisan support. however, i think the flynn pick is what has a lot of people concerned. when they see him meeting with rudy giuliani or a mitt romney, a lot of republicans are saying, hey, mitt romney could actually be a counterbalance to some of that. and so he's getting a little bit of pressure to actually look outside of his loyalist circle.

the question is how seriously is he taking the meetings with rudy giuliani, rick perry. you obviously talked to kellyanne conway who said he would be willing to bring a democrat into his inner circle. a lot of republicans and democrats say that would be a good thing. >> there is a lot of concern with general flynn, the fact that he's got donald trump's ear every day. and he is seen as a wild card, to put it gently. that he and rudy giuliani together would create shockwaves and not in a positive sense. whereas mitt romney would be a good balance to general flynn. >> but the question is, are they going to work together? are they going to balance or are they just going to be fighting all the time just because they hold completely different world views? and it's one thing to create a team of rivals. it's another to have mitt romney rushes the greatest geopolitical threat, and then flynn dining with putin. could romney just be completely frustrated the entire presidency?

>> again, there's a team of rivals, and obviously. you think of president obama, secretary clinton, but then there's mitt romney, really being the first top republican to come out and denounce trump, and trumpism, during the primary election, and to say he's a danger to our party. so the rhetoric got so heated, to elise's point, it is challenging to see how they would work together. >> we shall see. if you guys could stay with us, that would be great. still ahead, the post-election market hit a trifecta with the dow, nasdaq, and s & p closing at record highs. we'll find out what's behind one of the greatest wall street rallies in u.s. history. >> plus, new information on the tragic story from chattanooga, tennessee. where five students were killed when their bus crashed on the way home from school yesterday. nbc's kerry sanders will be reporting from the scene of that accident next.

we're back with developing news right now, federal investigators are headed to tennessee after a deadly school

bus accident in chattanooga yesterday afternoon. five students were killed. now the bus driver faces charges. kerry sanders joins us live from chattanooga. what are officials saying this morning? >> reporter: well, it's a horrific situation, and of course, everybody's hearts are going out to the families that lost children here. in addition to the five that died, there are six right now in the hospital in critical condition. there are another six in less critical condition. 20 students who were on the bus were taken to the hospital and released overnight. and of those five that died in this accident, we're learning a little more about them. three of them were fourth graders. one was a first grader. one of them, a kindergartner. >> i can see an arm moving but i don't know if anybody can get to it. >> reporter: this morning, investigators are working to retrieve the black box in hopes it will provide answers as to why this school bus with 35

elementary school children onboard suddenly flipped on its side, smashing into a tree, leaving behind a deadly mass of tangled wreckage. >> school bus flipped off the roadway. it is occupied with children. they believe there is ejections. >> we have arrested the bus driver of that school bus. >> overnight, chattanooga's police chief announced the arrest of the 24-year-old bus driver. >> johnthony walker is charged with five counts of vehicular homicide, reckless endangerment and reckless driving. >> i saw kids on the street, pulling kids out of the bus. >> the most unnatural thing in the world is for a parent to mourn the loss of a child. there are no words that can bring comfort to a mother or a father. and so today, the city is praying for these families. >> reporter: 8-year-old derian griffith was missing a shoe but able to walk away. others not so lucky. >> one of them had passed out. >> reporter: the road was clear and dry and no other vehicles were involved, according to authorities.

>> certainly speed is being investigated very, very strongly as a factor in this crash. >> the children's school is reopening this morning, administrators bringing in extra staff and counsellors to help deal with the pain and grief just two days before the thanksgiving holiday. the authorities say that they have been able to get a warrant for the black box on the bus. that is a data recorder that will help explain the accident as well as this bus was equipped with a video system and they'll be able to look at the video. there is an affidavit of complaint that has now been made public. we're just getting it. it says in part that witnesses say that they saw that the school bus swerved after driving at a high rate of speed. and then went over an elevated driveway into a mailbox and then went left and began to overturn. the authorities say that this is just some of the information of

what they're getting from witnesses. of course, we'll learn a lot more and the driver of the bus, the 24-year-old, is currently being held. he is charged with five counts of vehicular homicide. >> nbc's kerry sanders, thank you very much. turning -- go ahead. >> just going to say, let's turn now to business before the bell and brian sullivan. brian, first, brexit. we heard brexit was going to destroy the british economy and the markets. it didn't. then we heard it was going to happen to wall street. but actually, what we had yesterday, just record highs everywhere. trifecta. i mean, one of the greatest one-month rallies in recent u.s. history. since trump's election. what's going on? >> yeah. well, it's tough to follow that story. let's get back to business. listen, the thought was that the market likes gridlock. you want to have a mixed house and senate or executive branch because then nothing happens and that's good. the exact opposite is happening. i think it's because what we're

hearing is what i'm talking and you're talking, as opposed to any kind of this direct fiscal stimulus like an infrastructure bill, paul ryan good the other gop members want to wrap it all into some sort of a broad tax package. i mean, corporate tax cuts, individual tax cuts, infrastructure would get tax credits inside of that. in other words, a massive fiscal stimulus program through tax reform. the market likes that. >> the sort of tax reform that president obama and congress had been talking about for some time. >> perhaps, yeah. listen, a lot of people would rather see a direct stimulus bill for infrastructure. in other words, let's write this, put this out there. a trillion bucks directly. i have talked to people, i'm sure you have that say, no, no, there's not going to be an infrastructure bill no matter what president-elect trump wants. there's going to be a tax reform bill which infrastructure will be tucked nicely inside of that. >> what's going to happen in trump world is both things, elise, are going to happen,

because donald trump thinks big and he doesn't really care about the deficit. so he's going to reform the tax structure. he's going to cut corporate tax rates, and he's going to have this massive infrastructure bill, right? >> well, the massive infrastructure bill is something i'm confused on because steve bannon in the hollywood reporter interview said that right now is the time to borrow because interest rates are so low, so why not just borrow for this huge infrastructure bill? what would that consist of? would congress go for it? it's vague to me. i just don't understand what that is. >> i think what's interesting aboutinfrastructure bill is it's the one thing democrats cement to think they can get onboard with. when you hear nancy pelosi talk ugabout working with president-elect trump, she goes back to the insfru structure bill. >> i talked to people directly on the hill, companies lobbying for this. nobody is talking an infrastructure bill. it's a nonstarter, according to my sources on the hill.

>> tax credits for private sector? >> a broader, gigantic, joe, your kind of thing. thousands of pages of legislation. >> not my thing. >> all stacked -- >> a steaming pile of something. >> my thing is the opposite of what we're going to be seeing over the next four years. it's going to look a lot like george w. bush's big government republicanism where you give tax cuts, you increase defense spending. you increase domestic spending. somebody wants an infrastructure bill, you give it to them. nobody says no to anybody. >> let me ask you a question, joe. does that work? >> does what work? >> that type of package, rather than direct stimulus, kristen, i'll going to give you a trillion dollars, versus let's increase the incentive by cutting the tax rate? >> i can say politically, no. when you talk about cutting corporate tax rates, you sound like mitt romney running in 2012. when you talk about inf infrastructure packages, you're hitting the people that voted

for donald trump in wisconsin and made him win for the first time since 1984, people in michigan, that's music to their ears. ohio, pennsylvania, the entire rust belt, that package makes sense politically for all the people that went out and voted for him. >> aren't the markets also responding to president-elect trump saying he's going to scale back on regulations? part of what we heard in that video yesterday. >> yeah, a great point. listen, maybe dodd/frank gets rolled back. you have also got -- the bond market, i don't want to bore your viewers. >> please don't. >> but i'll give you another big number. a trillion dollars, not infrastructure, the bond market is sold off by a trillion. interest rate, you asked ability mortgages. interesteralties ha rates have . bottom line is everything is up. you can hate it and hate trump for the reasons, but if you're the illinois state pension plan, this is really good news for you. >> i'm not a hater. i'm not a hater. >> brian, thank you. >> not going to be a good four

years for libertarian. >> big government spending is on the rise. he may well be on track to put barack obama to shame. >> big government republicanism. we had it under bush. >> heard it here first. >> up next, we'll talk to the writer of a new forbes cover story that says it was jared kushner who got his father-in-law elected. we're back in just a moment. not getting your best sleep?

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and jared married to my daughter, ivanka.

i mean, honestly, you know, jared is a very successful real estate person. but i actually think he likes politics more than he likes real estate. i'm excited. he's very good at politics. >> that was donald trump thanking his son-in-law after winning the indiana primary. joining us now is senior editor at forbes magazine. steven bertone. steve's exclusive interview with jared kushner is the first time he's talked to the media about the trump campaign or his role in it. good to have you on the show. >> steve, what have you learned? what have you learned from jared? >> so much to learn. so the headline is jared really was trump's secret weapon in building this. he's an outsider candidate. he uses silicon valley connections and know-how, and kind of inexperience to build a machine that beat the democrats, that beat the republicans, and he changed the way campaigns will be done. >> really quietly, and also, he talks about it, a moneyball

version of politics. >> he sought every vote, kind of every vote was worth the same amount of money. he said how can i get the most electoral votes for the cheapest i could. and he spent about half the money that the clinton campaign did and won. which is incredible. >> you mentioned he has silicon valley connections. >> he does. >> like in a big way, correct? >> a huge way. >> his brother is -- >> his brother is a very formidable venture capitalist, josh kushner. jared knows peter thiel very well. he called up silicon valley, who is so in favor of the democrats, and they helped them build this machine. pretty incredible he was kind of the project manager on this and got it done. >> the big question is what happens now? it seems like he was one of, as you point out, president-elect trump's closest advisers during the campaign. wahl role will he have? there are questions given he's the son-in-law. >> i talked to a lot of people, including rupert murdoch and

peter thiel, and they think he'll be very involved. the question is will he be official or not? frankly, does it matter? he runs his own multi, multi million dollar empire. he doesn't need the $150,000 salary. he could always be an adviser and there's no law stopping him giving advice. >> you think about the image of when president-elect trump visiting the white house. he's walking with denis mcdonough, the current chief of staff. that sort of says it all. >> everyone says -- people on both sides of the aisle say he's the steady hand. very calm, a centrist. if you're scared of the administration, they say no matter what -- so much fear involved, they say having kushner involved should make eve everyone feel calmer because he's going to balance some of the extreme. >> they have such an enterprise of businesses here, unprecedented for any president-elect to have to deal with deconflicting all of these interests globally around the world, in the u.s. also. particularly with obamacare,

jared kushner's brother has the start-up oscar, who is a health care platform, that is incredibly reliant on obamacare and would really go belly up if they did repeal obamacare. so what -- >> it's all -- that's kind of, i talked to a lot of people at oscar on back brnd. they're saying that, yes, obamacare got oscar going. that was built on its back, but obamacare's broken, and there had to be reform either way. and they're going into other things, going into group insurance, going into other markets. you know, under obama, it was going to fail or it needs to be changed, so it has to be revised and they're going to see what happ happens. >> new questions this morning about president-elect donald trump's business empire that could potentially present some conflicts of interest once he assumes the oval office. "the new york times" reports that when trump met with british politician nigel farage shortly after winning the aleelection, allegedly encouraged faraj to

oppose wind farms. according to one consultants, trump is not against the wind farms as a concept, but rather, quote, he just did not like those spoiling the views. a spokesman for trump initially disputed the subject of the meeting but later declined further comment when presented with details from those in attendance. the president-elect tweeted last night, quote, prior to the election, it was well known that i have interested in properties all over the world. only the crooked media makes this a big deal. >> so steven, obviously, this is something that perhaps jared will need to contend with and sort through because he does have so many interests across the globe. they're going to have to be extraordinarily careful. >> both the companies, the kushner kind of empire and the trump empire, they're doing well. it doesn't need to be sullied by conflict of interest. they have to make trump focus on, okay, your new job is coo of this country.

let the trump empire run itself. >> the question i think is how quickly and is he divesting in his companies? i spoke with a number of his top officials yesterday who say that process is under way. i said, will it be done by the time he assumes office? that's still a question mark. i think that a lot of people want to see that done. and these questions are going to continue to haunt him, i think, until it happens. until they can say definitively, he's divested. >> can he turn it off? if his children run the companies, if he's meeting with them for breakfast or dinner or whatever, can he turn that off? >> it is hard for him to turn that off, i'm sure. donald doesn't turn off too much. he goes, goes, goes. that's what's so fascinating. you have other people who have worked their entire life to be president of the united states. for donald, he's -- he likes making golf courses and resorts. so it's going to be a real challenge. he better get a really good white house counsel.

steve, thank you very much. >> thank you, kristen and elise. thank you, both. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thajs so much, mika. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle. breaking tragic news overnight. a school bus tragedy. the driver arrested after this crash left at least five kids dead. >> i seen kids laying in the street. i saw them pulling kids out of the bus. >> the driver, was he speeding? we're live at the scene as a community grapples with the unimaginable. and an msnbc exclusive. a source very close to donald trump says he will not prosecute hillary clinton over her e-mails. after a campaign filled with promises of this. >> she should be locked up. she should. >> the first 100 days, donald trump by-passes the press, releasing this video of what he will do first as president of the united states. >> i will cancel job-killing restrictions on the production of american