and bruce springsteen! holy mowly. until tomorrow, from nicole and me, still baffled by the absence of vince scully in the script, we say to you, sayonara. coming up, "hardball" with chris matthews. hillary walks. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. donald trump once called hillary clinton's e-mail scandal bigger than watergate. his supporters chanted "lock her up." well, today the president-elect said he wasn't interested in pursuing a criminal case against clinton, as he promised to do. he told "the new york times," it's just not something i feel very strongly about. well, earlier today, an adviser to trump, kellyanne conway, was asked about republicans in washington who still want to go

after clinton. >> i think when the president-elect, who's also the head of your party now, joe, tells you before he's even inaugurated, he doesn't wish to pursue these charges, it sends a very strong message, tone and content, to the members. and i think hillary clinton still has to face the fact that a majority of americans don't find her to be honest or trustworthy, but if donald trump can help her heal, than perhaps that's a good thing. i do -- look, i think he's thinking of many different things as he prepares to become the president of the united states, and things that sound like the campaign aren't among them. >> well, the reverse order earned rebukes from conservative republicans. here was senator lindsey graham this morning. >> well, so much for locking her up, i guess. i can understand wanting to put the election behind us and heal the nation, but i do hope that all the things that donald trump said about how crooked she was, that we just don't let it go without some serious effort to see if the law was truly

violated. i think that would be a mistake. >> on the website of breitbart news, by the way, the company once run by steve bannon, the headline this morning read, broken promise, trump doesn't wish to pursue clinton e-mail charges. joel pollack, a senior editor at breitbart said today, a decision not to pursue the clinton investigation would be seen as a betrayal of the voters and bodes ill for other promises. voters would understand a presidential pardon, perhaps, but not a wholesale abandonment of the investigation. another conservative group, judicial watch, also called it a betrayal. quote, if mr. trump's appointees continue the obama administration's politicized spiking of a criminal investigation of hillary clinton, it would be a betrayal of his promise to the american people to drain the swamp of out-of-control corruption in washington, d.c. well, for months, donald trump promised that if he won the presidency, he would have his political rival, hillary clinton, prosecuted over her use of a personal e-mail server.

let's watch that. >> she should be in prison. let me tell you. he should be in prison. i will ask my attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor. after getting a subpoena to give over your e-mails and lots of other things, she deleted the e-mails. she has to go to jail. [ chanting: lock her up ] >> for what she's done, they should lock her up. if i win, i am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation. >> you know, it is -- it's just awfully good that someone be wi the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> because you'd be in jail. >> joining me right now, in charge of donald trump's transition, kellyanne conway. can you give us any ticktock on

this? when during the night or when did donald trump come up with this decision to basically let hillary clinton off the hook in terms of further prosecution? >> it's a recent development. and those are his words. so we respect them. he repeated them today at "the new york times," on the record briefing, chris, you talked a little bit about that. he actually went on for a couple of minutes about this issue, to "the new york times." i was sitting right next to him. he said that it was a vicious primary, vicious campaign, he thinks that she and the clintons have suffered enough. and he just wants to unite the country and move forward, not backward. and then he ticked off a whole list of things that he does care about. he said he's very focused, he's most focused right now, on health care, on immigration, on national security, on the many problems he thinks exist throughout the world. this is somebody who's getting regular intelligence briefings now, and so he is convinced, there are many -- there are many issues that need his immediate attention, as our commander in chief and president of the united states. >> so much of the voting the

last -- you and i talked off and on off the record, i won't go into details, because there wasn't too much to it, except asking each other questions. you know there are a lot of people in the suburbs, where i'm from, or near the suburbs, my parents and brothers, that made last-minute decisions toward trump. they didn't like either candidates, especially, but they made a decision for trump. because they don't like hillary. they just really don't like her. and they really, i think, like the idea that trump was calling her crooked hillary. they liked the idea that his people said, "look her up." and now one of the real motivating emotions of the campaign near the end was better him than her. and now that's gone by the wayside. and there's no more belief on the part of him? >> no, there's not. >> is there a belief that she's crooked hillary or is that something that's been dropped? >> look at the polling, chris. a majority of americans still think she has a voracity problem -- >> yeah, does he think that? >> thouno, no, this is importan.

this is part of why she lost. their unfavorability ratings were high for each of them, but for different reasons. and for her, you had a much higher intense number of people saying, i just can't go there. i just can't abide the lying or the mistruths or the -- or using the state department as a concierge for foreign governments and the pay-to-play in the clinton foundation. come on, there's a whole bunch of thing in what i call their scandalabra. but with him, we can't have it both ways. because on this network and out of hillary clinton's mouth herself, it was claimed when james comey would start a new investigation into her e-mails, everybody had their head on fire and said, people already decided what they think about that, it's baked in the cake. she said it very clearly. so we can't have it both ways. did people decide last minute because of those e-mails or had they already decided because of those e-mails. >> i think it all helped. let me ask what you do now. we've got people like trey gowdy, jason chaffetz, and darryl issa who make a living on

basically going after hillary, holding hearing after hearing. how do you stop that process, as the president? if he's -- he will be the president come january 20th. how does he call off the dogs? donald trump? >> he respects federalism and he respects the separation of power. so he is stating what his position is, as the president-elect and the leader of his party now, certainly. and he's made that very clear. he's just said, he has no interest in pursuing these charges. that he wants to unite the party -- excuse me, unite the country and he wants to move forward, not backward. he has said that. he can't control what other people do, he's the president of the united states. >> yeah, but, he can control it. he can control it. >> no, that's not true. >> well, he could -- >> well, i'm sorry, but then you're suggesting that president obama was interfering or should have interfered, somehow, with hillary's e-mails. there's no indication of that. >> no, i just wonder whether he has ruled out a pardon. because the advantage of a pardon, just a broad pardon, the president has the absolute authority to do it. it would basically call off the dogs. it would say, there's no reason

for more -- i'm not saying she's incident. i'm just saying, let's drop this, like gerry ford did. just pardon her, end it right there. he could do that. >> he hasn't said that. >> has he ruled it out? >> that's not a conversation we've had, one way or the other. >> do you think he would rule it out? >> it's not -- i just don't know where his head is on that. it's not a conversation we've had. you just saw what he said today. i think he made a lot of news yesterday and today, frankly. he's made some decisions on more appointments. they'll be coming out in the next couple of days and he's incredibly busy up there, getting his cabinet together, his senior staff, making decisions. obviously, sitting with the press yesterday. the electronic press, the tv press. and including nbc and msnbc. and today, really in an extraordinary on the record briefing with a newspaper that told america not to vote for him. and i think their coverage of

him has been, well, a bit one-sided. but he's happy to go in there and try to have a conversation with them, and try to answer their questions. and i thought he was terrific and i thought they were very -- both sides were very accessible. >> do you think "the new york times" will change its ways, because of that meeting? >> i hope that many in the media, chris, will at least see that they missed the cultural zeitgeist that donald trump understood and harnessed and brought all the way to the presidency. i hope what happens is now you've got these unbudsmen, these public editors writing all these pieces about, whoa, we missed it, we're sorry, we'll try to go back out now and try to understand america. wow. you spent millions and millions of dollars sending reporters out to america never actually gettiget getting to know america. what i think will happen is that there is -- i like to say that the press and the president trump have, they're going to have joint custody of the public for the next four to eight years. and i ought to find a way to do that together responsibly.

what i think will happen is "the new york times" sees in front of them today a very accessible, very candid, frankly, very intellectual parapatettic in the answers he gave, they see someone that is willing to go sit across from them eyeball to eyeball and aps their questions. and they say that we're all available to them if they want to call us. i'm very open with the press. i don't always like what's written -- >> you are? you shouldn't like what's written. there's no way you should like the way the press has treated trump. let me ask you about some of the news things that's coming. we only get you once in a while, kellyan kellyanne. we want to get some news. my mom always said, wear one nice piece of clothing that will impress everybody, like a tweed jacket or something. i wonder if that's the reason trump is thinking about mitt romney for secretary of state. the media elite will say, he's a finer man than we thought he was, because he picked mitt romney, who's a fine man. is that part of the garnishing

of this administration, that you'll have to put a guy like trump -- trump has nothing in common with mitt romney, at all. nothing in common. romney was a big supporter of the iraq war. he was a hawk like the rest of them. you put him back in there. how is he going to carry out a trump foreign policy? it doesn't make sense to me, at least. it looks nice. >> right, but, look, no appointment is -- donald trump is not somebody who fakes appearances, as we all know. so let's dispense with that. there's no one in the cabinet who could be thought of to be, quote, window dressing or a nice piece of clothing to get everybody to stop criticizing president-elect trump. first and foremost, the person has to be qualified and capable to do the job. and in the case of governor romney, many things like he said in 2012 came true. but i still think you've got rudy giuliani up there for secretary of state. i think people are looking at bob corker. there are a couple of other names that have come our way. mr. trump is talking to them. this is not a position that you're going to get an announcement about today. it's a very important job. but chris, i was thinking about the position of secretary of

state today. why are all these recent secretaries of state flying around the world all the time? why not the kissinger/george schultz model, where you're actually serving the president and the vice president and you're with them a lot. and not just flying around the world. it's not much of an accomplishment. i don't know that the world is any safer or more prosperous because the last few secretaries of state logged a million miles? >> because in washington, you can't measure output, you measure input. you can't claim you're getting anything done, so you tell people how many miles you flew. you know the game. >> but this is a guy who's going to get things done quickly. >> if a secretary of state, it will be interesting. secretary mike flynn has made comments in the past critical of muslims. he tweeted, fear of muslims is rational. you know, when bill clinton won, he had a big press conference with business people. it worked. it sent a signal, i am not anti-business, and clinton really wasn't. is there an opportunity in the

next couple of weeks for the president-elect to meet with the muslim community and let them know, i'm not out to get you. is that going to happen? could it happen? >> perhaps he does things like that privately. not everybody -- you know, this is donald trump. he's not a typical politician, so not everything is meant to be a press-consumable event. but i will tell you that he speaks to many different people on a given day, from many different bawalks of life. but your point is well taken. moments after he claimed victory, and huma and hillary were calling him to concede, he said, i'm going to be the president of all americans. and he means that. i see it every day in the decisions he makes and the conversations he has, talk about inputs and outputs, in the counsel around which he has surrounded. and i'm telling you that he will, he's somebody who wants to reach out to everyone. i don't want him to become a walking hallmark card, by the way. people elected him because he's a tough leader. so let me make that clear, too.

we don't need to go all mush mush. but at the same time -- >> all right, you're -- >> -- there's a certainly responsibility when you become president. >> i'm not sure who you're tilting at windmills. i'm not for that. i would like to see how he ran against the hawks. number two, i think there is, in this city of washington, where you and i know this city, people are open to a deal. there are a lot of things on the table. people want infrastructure, they want public/private, they want private as well as public. they want to get trillions of dollars, tens of trillions of dollars being hidden overseas brought back home. most of the democrats want minimum wage. can he put it all on the table, put it all together, get chuck schumer there, and force them not to leave the room until they cut a damned deal that gets the country booming economically for the working people again? make them agree on a big deal, not this puny, pissant incremental thing. oh, geez, we'll do a little bit of this and a little bit of that on road building. put a railroad across this country. reunite this country red and blue, make it happen.

be big. that would be great. and i think a lot of progressives and moderates like me would say, you know what, it's better than nothing. and we've been getting nothing out of the federal government for years. go ahead, kellyanne, will there be a big deal or this pissant stuff that politicians love. >> nobody can accuse donald trump of playing small ball. i've never heard the word "puny" and him in the same sentence before. he's thinking big and will do big things. and the way you describe what is needed, in terms of negotiating and getting the best deal for americans and indeed the american worker, that's who this guy is. it's not just what he ran on as president. it's who he's been for decades. he's somebody who's a listener, a learner, a communicator, a connector. he's accountable, he delivers, he produces. he's a guy who has results, things to show for it. he builds stuff, he fixes stuff. that's what he need in washington. and you know what, with chris, for 30 years, probably as long as i've known you, the country has been telling us all, i want -- i want a dealmaker, i

want a fixer, i want a businessman, i don't want a politician. they finally made good on their self-avowed desire to put that kind of person in the white house. you're going to be surprised at how much progress is made in such a short time. >> speaking of deal marks, before the election, i say, can i have donald trump on the show? and you said, no, but we'll give him to you right after he wins. i'll remind you of that. kellyanne, you're my friend, i know you personally, a good word. thank you so much. an interesting show. i'm joined right now by "the new york times" yamiche alcindor. tell me about "the new york times" meeting today and this breitbart issue. and trump has denounced it, it's racistall these other words, not sure he used the word "racist," but he definitely came down on this right-wing group that met in washington over the weekend, in the reagan building, of all places. how'd that come out in the meeting today with trump? >> well, in the meeting, which donald trump really in some ways, very clearly disavowed the alt-right meeting that happened. he really said that if he thought steve bannon was a part of that movement, that he would

not have a position in his administration, so he was really doing his best to really distance himself from those groups. the other thing that he did in the meeting that i thought was pretty interesting, as much as he talked about the idea that he felt in some ways that the paper hadn't treated him fairly, he went on to say that he really respected the paper, that he reads it regularly, and he really wants to be able to work with the paper in some real ways. i think being able to sit down with all the editors and the reporters at "the new york times" and really make that space shows that he's serious about that. >> did he seem to be bothered by the fact that the breitbart network, the newspaper, whatever, came out and attacked him for basically letting hillary get off prosecution as far as he's concerned? >> he really -- in some ways, talked really candidly about the fact that he really wants to move about that. he's talking about hillary clinton as someone he didn't want to hurt. he didn't speak specifically about the headline in breitbart saying, broken promises. but i think he's trying to tell the american people and tell his base, we got what we wanted.

you got me in office, now i want to create policies and jobs and focus on that and not focus on someone who's already lost the presidency. >> let me ask him about a pardon. he has the absolute power to pardon. say she's pardoned and that's the end of the game. no more worry about darryl issa or jason chaffetz or trey gowdy. they would all be without a job. why doesn't he do that? just a thought. >> in your interviewer with kellyanne conway, she also said she hasn't talked to him about that, so he didn't speak to us about that. it seems his administration and even the spoexpeople you've interviewed you're, they don't want to go anywhere near talking about a pardon. >> how does -- are you surprised how trump is putting out the news? he got on "morning joe" this morning, i don't know how these things happen, i haven't talked to joe, but the fact that these stories are breaking on the morning shows, is that the power of the morning show television audience over the print media now, that that's where he wants to put a story out?

it's a judgment he's making, i'll make more news on "morning joe" than i will in "the new york times" this morning. >> i think in some ways, you can say that the twitter is more important than any ns organization in general. so we can also read into that. that he feels like the fact that he can tweet out and have people pick that up, that he can put out a statement, a video, have his open staff record him. that also might say that that's more important than the network news. but the fact that he's sitting down specifically with "the new york times," coming to our building, tells us that we are still the paper of record and still a place he thinks is very important. >> he started with "morning joe" on msnbc and got to you guys later in the day. that was his plan today. thank you, yamiche alcindor. i'm just teasing, a little bit. coming up, more warning signs that trump is mixing business with politics. he's now tweeting, as yamiche said, that everyone knew of his business interests before the election, they still voted for him anyways. is trump planning as running his business empire as a tycoon of the world out of the oval office. and trump's plans to rebuild the country's roads, bridges, airports. i talked about that with kelly

and said he wants to put american workers to work, but they better stop talking like that. and the "hardball" roundtable on how the far right is angry with trump over what they're calling broken promises. tough. they want trump to make good on his campaign promise to investigate hillary clinton. good luck with that. and i'll finish tonight with this day in history, november 22nd. do you remember? this is "hardball," the place for politics. mary buys a little lamb. one of millions of orders on this company's servers. accessible by thousands of suppliers and employees globally. but with cyber threats on the rise, mary's data could be under attack. with the help of at&t, and security that senses and mitigates cyber threats, their critical data is safer than ever. giving them the agility to be open & secure. because no one knows & like at&t. but...my doctor recommended prilosec otc 7 years ago,

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think about my presidency. and what also makes it special is this is america. and it's useful when you think about this incredible collection of people, to realize that this is what makes us the greatest nation on earth. not because of what we -- >> what a great day for america, a great moment. president obama has handed out a total of 114 medals of freedom in his eight years in the white house, more than any other president. we'll be right back. re me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.

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that was an interesting interview. anyway, back to "hardball." donald trump last night pushed back against concerns that he has continued stake in his global business empire could compromise his ability to act in the best interest as president for the country. his message, you knew what you were getting. here's what trump tweeted last

night. prior to the election, it was well known that i have interests in properties all over the world. only the crooked media makes this a big deal. well, trump's apparent defiance amid scrutiny of his business dealings earned him a rebuke from republican congress manning justin amosh of michigan, who responded last night saying, you rightly criticized hillary for the clinton foundation, if you have contracts with foreign governments, it's certainly a big deal, too. well, according to maggie haberman of "the new york times," trump addressed the issue in his meeting with the newspaper's representatives today, saying, quote, the law's totally on my side. the president can't have a conflict of interest. in theory, i could run my business perfectly and run the country perfectly. there's never, a case like this. i would assume you would have to set up some kind of trust or whatever, and you don't. adding the quote, i would like to do something. i'm joined right now by msnbc political analyst, david corn, washington bureau chief of mother jones, and michael steele, former chairman of the rnc. michael and david, i was once, fortunate enough to get an interview with yasser arafat,

and one of the interesting side arrangements was, just to make things work smoothly here, i don't know who made the deal, but would you mind getting your rooms and stay at the hotel down there in ramala? nobody wanted to stay down there, but as a courtesy, the person who set up the meeting said, that's the way you do it. how does trump avoid foreign dignitaries coming to washington and passing the word through the office of protocol, oh, by the way, we've got 20 rooms at trump hotel down on pennsylvania avenue, as a courtesy to our host. how do you stop foreign people who are used to buying people, used to bribery, from playing the game with trump enterprises. >> it's too late. >> let me go to michael first. go ahead, michael? >> i'm kind of disappointed in the language i'm hearing about this. you can't stop that from happening, and there's no guarantee that it won't happen. and yeah, the law may be on your side, but the ethical conundrum that you create, and not only that, but just the way it

appears, to the american people, should be concerning to the president. and yeah, no one says you can't be a good ceo, and no one says you can't be a good president, but you can't be both at the same time. i think that's the problem. i think what's happening right now is that the trump team and trump himself is making a story that shouldn't exist. you knew going into this what the obligations and the commitment was to be president. it's a full-time job. you can't do anything else but that. and all presidents have put their interests, their personal interest separate and away from their public duty and responsibility, and i hope the president does the same thing. >> let me ask you this, more directly. he's in a bag he has to fight his way out of. it's difficult. suppose he's the cleanest guy that ever lived and closed his eyes to everything being done while he's president. he picks up the financial pages, reads that somebody in trump tower just sold some hotel in

riyadh or bought something in riyadh and he thinks that's a stupid decision. does he not call up some knucklehead and say, why'd you make that decision? how does he stay out of something that's a public enterprise? >> he wants his son-in-law to be his top adviser in his security briefings, who's married to ivanka, who will be controlling a company that's not even separated by a blind trust. this is untenable. and it's not just, you know, he said, everybody knew i had properties. i'm not sure everyone knew that he had almost $1 billion in loans from deutsche bank in germany and the bank of china, a state bank, which may violate the constitution. >> do you think it's possible for him to disaggregate, to disassociate himself from these? is it possible? because if it isn't, why are we arguing? >> the wall street journal has said that the only possible course forward for him is to sell off his assets and take the funds and put those in a blind trust. >> do you think somebody would buy everything he's got? >> yeah. >> let me go to "the new york times," another version of the truth, also reported the

questions that could come into play when trump is in office, pointing to an obscure provision that's designed to protect the country from improprieties. it reads, no person holding any office of profit or trust under them shall without the consent of the congress september of any present, office, or title of any kind whatever from any king, prince, or foreign state. you can't even take a revered bowl from some foreign government without checking it in somewhere. you have to be very honorable about it. how does he avoid some prince from someplace in the elm rats granting him the knowledge that they just bought -- you know, that they used his hotel for the their latest, what do you call it, ceremonial catering. how do yo stop crooks from being crooks with us? >> you can't. and that's why that clause was there. it was a concern of the founding fathers. that the influences of england and france and other nations at

the time on this fledgling democracy would be too much. and that still holds true today. we are always concerned about the influence that foreign governments mare on our presidency. look at the reaction to just the idea that russia may have somehow tampered with the election. or been involved with the election. i mean, we take these things seriously. i hope the trump team does, as well. this is not difficult. this is not complicated, as spelled out in the constitution. it is spelled out even by precedent, even though i know peopleprecedent, there's a reas for it. and i think the people coming in the door should acknowledge that, particularly given the particular family entanglements as well as the other business interests. >> maybe he has to make, as you suggest, although you're not as nice about it, a sacrifice. he said that his sex life discipline during the vietnam war -- was his vietnam, remember that nonsense? this could be a case of true sacrifice. he may have to give up tens of

millions of dollars in potential profit if he wants to be a good, clean president. he may have to. >> what's disturbing is, the way he talked about it at "the new york t" today, like, i don't know, gee-whiz, maybe something. this is a problem that was readily identified, we at mother jones and bloomberg and other places wrote about for weeks prior to this. it's not a surprise. $1 billion in loans from overseas, he's meeting with partners in india this week. >> who should have known this? the voters or him? >> both, and having had his tax returns would have been helpful. there's a lot we don't know. there's still a lot we don't know about the -- >> and i think, chris, i think that because trump was able to get away with not having to, you know, show us the tax returns, i think there is this idea that, you know, he can get away with doing this, as well. i think this is very different. i think this is very different for a lot of the american people. this isn't a partisan issue. this is something that i think really speaks to the integrity

of the office. >> he wants to drain the swamp. this is like, this is the swamp. this is a global swamp that he's stepping right into. >> he shouldn't have any other interests but the american people at this point. thank you very much, michael steele and david corn. i'm glad you guys agree. i do, too. up next, donald trump says he wants to rebuild america's roads, bridges, and ports, but some democrats like bernie sanders are already calling trump's plan a scam. that's their point of view. maybe they want it to be a scam. i think bernie will deal with them, though. this is "hardball," the place for politics. we are the tv doctors of america. and we're partnering with cigna to help save lives.

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hi, there. i'm gigi stone woods. here's what's happening at this hour. authorities are investigating monday's deadly school bus crash in chattanooga. the bus, which had no seat belts, was traveling faster than the speed limit. and winter weather could make travel dangerous for the thanksgiving rush. more snow is expected from upstate new york through northern new england. now back to "hardball." we are going to fix our inner cities and rebuild our highways, bridges, tunnels, airports, schools, hospitals. we're going to rebuild our infrastructure. which will become, by the way, second to none. and we will put millions of our people to work as we rebuild it. >> welcome back to "hardball." donald trump says he has a $1 trillion infrastructure plan to

update the country's roads, bridges, tunnels, and airports. "the new york times'" james stewart says this is one way that trump could, quote, unify a bitterly divided america, provide well-paying jobs to millions, many of the millions of disaffected workers who voted for him with, and lift the economy, stock market, and tax rolls. all he needs to do is what he presumably does best, build something, something awe-inspiring, something americans can be proud of. but trump's fellow republicans on capitol hill may be reluctant to give their new president a blank check. house democrat transportation chair bill schuster told politico that he's working with trump's team to figure out how we're going to pay for it. it's got to be fiscally responsible. john thune said $1 trillion is a big number. and alaska republican don young said there's no pie in the sky, no magic want we have to pay for it. james stewart, the guy who wrote it, is a columnist with "the new york times." everyone around here loved your article, because you painted out in almost beautiful, graphic manner, the ways you can rebuild america, going from erie, pennsylvania, across new york,

across the country. i've been singing this song, but not so graphically. i want us to build a high-speed railroad that reunites red and blue america and makes us one country again. brings back st. louis and cleveland, all those cities in the middle. make us one country like it used to be in the railroad days, flyover country's not been good for this country. flying from l.a. and new york and back and forth and skipping the country is bad culturally, it's bad economically. why not borrow $30 trillion at low interest right now, sell the bonds, call them trump bonds, let trump go out on the road, sell the bonds, and build such a beautiful america that we look like china and japan and switzerland, where they have high-speed rail. and in france, they go 300 miles an hour and your little diet coke doesn't even jiggle. it's unbelievable. why are we the backward country? i'll let you talk. why? >> chris, i will say i'm impressed by how big you're thinking. they're complaining about $1 trillion. nobody i talked to thinks $1 trillion is enough. by the way, 2 trillion, maybe

we're getting in the ballpark. if he definitely wants to be the greatest infrastructure country in the world, we're definitely looking at $3 trillion or up. there is going to be a big price tag. i have to say, trump is absolutely right about that, it's a disgrace. i don't go anywhere by car, train, air where i don't have anxiety and stress about what's going to go wrong. the new york area alone could soak up practically $1 trillion of this. but as you pointed out, it should be spread all over america. we can do a tremendous amount with high-speed trains. chicago is a hub connecting a lot of those midwestern cities with these magnetic trains, a magnetic train, connecting washington and new york. and one thing i would say to these deficit hawks who are always counting their pennies, we're not throwing this money away like we have on so many projects. it's an investment, a sound investment in america's future, in economic growth. they're always saying, cut

taxes, we'll grow, it will pay for itself. build infrastructure, the economy will grow, and that's going to pay for a lot of itself, as well. >> the conundrum is the republicans are tight. they don't want to spend mup, because it's some kind of a philosophy based upon years of money. the democrats would love to spend the money, but no one will trust them to save the money. everybody will have their fingers out, and by the time -- the money's gone. was it you the other day who wrote, nobody can think of a thing built by the obama stimulus package, not a single thing. by the time the money reaches the street in reality, everybody, every politician and group in the world has their hands in it. republicans want to build, but they don't want to spend a nickel. how do you -- >> let's take the best of these two worlds. let's take the democratic willingness to write a check and the republican hawkishness about making sure it gets spent in the right place. by the way, that's what roosevelt did. he was all over these things. obama wrote checks and delegated. fdr didn't delegate.

he had a big task force that made sure there was no corruption, that rooted it out. there were over 2,000 people prosecuted for graft and fraud of the new deal era, because they kept this project clean. it's a big management task, you need good people, but we have proven it can be done. we don't want another frittering away the money, like the obama reconstruction thing, or worse, what happened in katrina. look at all the money that was wasted there. you've got to have management. you've got to stay on top of it. but if you do it right and build the right things, it's going to be a great investment in america. >> a typical democrat thing is, wait until you have a lot of money to spend with and say, we've got to help this deficit in d.c. let's pay some of those arrears there. it's just unbelievable. thank you, james stewart, for making us think big. get the piece by james stewart and get your mind around something big again in this country. something like lincoln building the railroads or scientific farming, which is another thing lincoln did. we used to do big stuff. >> we can still do it. >> thank you, sir. well said. up next, trump's apparent

decision not to push the investigation into hillary clinton isn't going over well with some of his base, breitbart types. they're already calling it a broken promise. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. it's time for the "your business" entrepreneur of the week. leslie hanson is a business owner in the beautiful northern california coastal town of half moon bay. her shop, odyssey, sells products related to science and nature, like geodes, terrariums, and fossils. she'll be encouraging customers to shop small all holiday season. for more, watch "your business" on sunday morning on msnbc. ♪ ♪ see ya next year.

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welcome back to "hardball." donald trump said last month that if he's elected, he would hire a special prosecutor to investigate hillary clinton's e-mails. well, today he says, forget about it. conservative organizations are slashing at him, calling trump tease backpedaling a betrayal. yesterday, in another troubling sign, trump released a video detailing executive actions he would take on day one. top of that list, repealing tpp, banning lobbyists, and canceling energy regulations. what didn't make the list? building a border wall, repealing obamacare, and repealing president obama's executive actions on immigration. for more on how candidate trump transitions into president trump, i'm joined by april ryan, a.m. stein, reporter with

"huffington post," and tamara keith, political correspondent for npr. so the new person, start this. i personally think he had to clear the air with hillary, but it was rather abrupt. somehow getting it out this morning on "morning joe." and all of a sudden we're in a world in which there's not going to be any prosecuting hillary clinton, crooked hillary, which was his brake ligattle cry and have excited his troops is now forgotten. >> it is going away. but, you know, he eased into this, in the "60 minutes" interview. he said he didn't want to hurt her. and then today he makes it clear that he doesn't plan to prosecute her. the fact is, it was sort of an empty promise all along. >> how did you know? i didn't know that. >> well, it was an mpt promise, because he didn't really have the authority to do it. >> he could have picked a prosecutor as attorney general and said, come on, come on, come on. but i think he could have cheered on her prosecution on the hill. now he's telling the guys on the hill to lay you have witoff, i . >> is this cynical politics?

>> we need to step back a little bit. and there is something troubling about a president saying, i will not prosecute you and i will prosecute you. the president doesn't independently -- >> rudy giuliani said, how can we let her get by, because then someone will steal 50,000 bucks. >> the president doesn't independently get to choose who he gets to prosecute. >>gerry ford did. >> there's a lot of justice departments -- >> gerry ford did. >> there are a lot of justice department officials -- >> can he pardon her? >> of course, that's a presidential prerogative. >> april? >> there are a lot of facts that need to be brought to the forefront. that one-liner, when he said, yeah, you should be in jail -- >> you'd be in jail. >> yeah, yeah, "you'd be in jail." everyone, well, pretty much the large portion of his supporters went ballistic in that debate rom. but from that moment on, we knew the fact was, a sitting president is not allowed to tamper in his justice department. it is just unethical and it's not right. number two, that was meant to

gin up his base. and i remember driving through this country, seeing signs, hillary for prison. so, where do day go now? where do those people go? and i'm not saying that he should do it. but i'm saying, he has let a good portion of his support down. >> how much -- you know, a lot of people, so many brilliant people who like trump, didn't buy his act literally. they just meant, they wanted his attitude. you don't like hillary? screw her! but they didn't necessarily concerned about the prosecution part? >> it's become a cliche of the post-election analysis, that his supporters didn't take trump literally. they did take him seriously. and reporters, we all took him literally and didn't maybe take him seriously. >> i never believed -- i never thought the mexicans were going to pay for the wall myself. >> i'm not so sure -- you see breitbart.com, the most pro-trump site on the internet, with the headline that says "broken promises." >> so where's this going to go? this shattered glass? what's going to happen now? >> there's a whole host of issues that you've outlined

already that he's going to have to walk back. obamacare is one -- >> let's go to the particular. steve bannon his wartime consigliere, he's going to sit there. he is breitbart. >> yes. >> doesn't the president-elect call him in and say, are you with me, steve, or are you with breitbart? i'd ask him. >> so here's the question, how much of this is attitude and how much of this is policy, right? if you have to go out and build a border wall with mexico, but you have to pay for it, that becomes problematic than just saying, i'm going to make it happen. >> attytude is key in this country. >> when donald trump said it, i believed it, and he's showing us a lot -- >> you believed he was going to put in a prison? >> when he said those things -- let me tell you this. he's talking some issues, putting people in place who have questionable backgrounds when it comes to race, religion, and all sorts of things. he said that on the campaign trail, and now he's starting to

do some things. now with this obamacare, i find it interesting that he's pulling back on those two big things that ginned up his base. >> the roundtable is staying with us, up and next, they'll tell me something i don't

on black friday that's coming up for plaque humor on "hardball." join me as we look at all the rules that donald trump broke on

his way to winning the white house. we're calling it how not to run for president and win. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.

we're back with the roundtable. and april, tell me something i don't know. >> with the concern about sessions possibly being the u.s. attorney general in the trump administration, there is a concern about the backlog in the civil rights cases, justice, eeoc as well as in education. >> he won't take them off very fast. >> exactly. >> and they weren't cleared. >> i think i got that guy's number. >> j.m. reiger found a clip of chuck schumer on the apprentice as the prize for the contestants, he mights with them. in the clip he ends up praising donald trump for his business acumen. that's something you didn't know. >> oh, my god. the past is prologue. >> this is ridiculous, but tomorrow the president will pardon two turkeys, tater and

tot. the first turkeys, they weren't pardoned, they were eaten. >> i will predict that trump won't pardon the next turkeys. he'll say you're fired. we'll be back with more rim shots. g new cars. you're smart. you already knew that.

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well, today is november 22nd. and those of you who lived, as i did, through an earlier november 22nd, you might want to hear what i wrote. in the last page of my book on john f. kennedy. in the 2009 poll americans were asked which president deserves to be added to mt. rushmore. who should be up there with washington, jefferson, lincoln and the old roughrider himself,

teddy roosevelt. the people chose john f. kennedy. a fellow peace corps volunteer of mine sat on a hill in swaziland with local villagers looking at the night sky. finally it arrived overhead what they were looking for. a small light moving in the distance. it was his countryman heading to the moon. that saturn rocket had done its job. 20 years later the berlin wall came down. i was there with the east germans waiting for the brandenburg gate to open. when i asked what's freedom mean to you, a young man said, talking to you. jack kennedy would have loved to have heard that, i think. the cold war was ending without the nuclear war we so feared. we had gotten through it alive, those of us who once hid under our little school desks. thanks to him, i'd say. he came a long way from the kid that caused trouble at boarding school for being john kennedy's

son. at the moment of ultimate judgment an american president kept us from the brink, saved us really, he did that, jack kennedy. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight on "all in" -- >> this is going to be thorny. it's a blind trust, his kids. >> donald trump continues to do business saying, quote, the president can't have a conflict of interest. >> when the president does it, that means it is not illegal. >> reports of trump's influence on business dealings in argentina and against wind turbines near trump golf courses. >> we've got all these wind mills over the place driving you loco when you look at them, right? >> then another "washington post" bombshell. the trump foundation admits it violated irs rules as trump takes the on the media. >> he is the president and they are the press and they have to find