trump's new hires. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. we are following the latest developments from donald trump's presidential transition. trump making several key cabinet picks today. governor nikki haley seen by many as a rising star in the republican party. trump naming her his pick to be u.s. ambassador to the united nations. a one-time critic of trump's

candidacy with little experience. she will now be taking over one of the key diplomatic posts. trump also naming betsy devos to be the next secretary of education. he called her an education advocate. she's been a major proponent of vouchers and charter school movement. devos, too, was a strong critic of trump in march. she called him an interloper who does not represent the republican party. meanwhile, nbc reporting that dr. ben carson is mulling an offer to join the trump administration. the president-elect recently tweeting that he is seriously considering carson to be the head of hud. an announcement is forthcoming in a statement he wrote, after serious discussions with the trump transition team, i feel that i can make a significant contribution particularly to making our inner cities great for everyone. for the latest, how trump's cabinet is shaping up. joined by kristen welker in palm beach, florida.

let's start with the two officials picks that we do know about. haley devos, you're adding voices who are critical of him in the past. what else does that say about donald trump and these two picks in particular? >> i think it is striking. you see him look outside of his loyalist circle. when he started to name folks, to his administration, steve boone, reince priebus, there was concern that he wasn't looking outside of that inner circle. so you have the fact these are two former critics of donald trump. and these are the first two women he is picking to serve as part of his administration. in terms of south carolina governor nikki haley, she is a rising star within the republican party. she is someone who gained national praise when she led that fight to have these confederate flags taken down in her state.

she is also someone who opposed the muslim ban but supported blocking syrian refugees from coming into her state. so she has a large range of different policy positions. many of which do line up with donald trump. but as you say, she was a former critic of his. last week after she spoke after she met with mr. trump, she said i'm not going to pretend that i was always a cheerleader for him but i did vote for him, and i was thrilled when he was elected. so she ultimately got on board with him and i think that's something that matters to president-elect trump. this move is a win-win for trump in a number of different ways. it elevates lieutenant general henry mcmaster in south carolina to governor. he was an early ally with trump. so it gives him a little bit of a political edge in a key southern state. in terms of the pick of devos, for education secretary. she is a former critic. she is more of a lightning rod. she was praised by jeb bush.

you have the top teachers unions coming out saying she's going to be bad for children. bad for education. she's someone who favors the voucher program and who is opposed to common core. so she could have a tougher confirmation process. i think what you're seeing is donald trump trying to diversify his cabinet in a whole host of ways. >> and quickly on ben carson, all those reporting, something is happening maybe imminently, a week, two weeks ago you had ben carson's people putting out a statement that he didn't feel ready to lead a federal agency. now may be on the edge of leading hud. what's happening here? >> i think one of the concerns is that he doesn't necessarily have expertise in housing and urban development. so there was some concern from dr. ben carson himself. would he be ready for this type of position? i was told, he is mulling the decision. i was told that earlier today. then this evening i spoke to a

spokesperson who said he is considering taking up donald trump on the offer. then you read the facebook posts which are a real indication, not only is he considering it. he is leaning toward it. everyone who serves in an administration says ultimately they felt as if they couldn't say no to the president. to such a high offer. so we'll have to see what he ultimately decides. but i'm told he will take this thanksgiving holiday to really consider it, really consider if he is right for this position. >> all right. kristen welker in palm beach, florida. thanks for that. and donald trump has yet to make his selection for secretary of state but mitt romney, reportedly a leading candidate there. two trump loyalist, newt gingrich and mike huckabee publicly lobbying against that selection. >> i am for whoever the president-elect picks. i think there are huge advantages to rudy giuliani frankly.

i want someone that is going to be out and be a very tough negotiator for america and represent american interests in the way the trump campaign, i think rudy is a better pick and has the right temperament. >> there's only one way that i think mitt romney could even be considered. he goes to a microphone with a public place and repudiates everything he said in that famous salt lake city speech. and everything he said after that. he said that donald trump wasn't fit and lacked character. on and on. it would be a real insult to all of those donald trump voters who worked really hard. that's what i think he has to stop and consider. >> for more on the state of the administration, joined now by ken vogel and jay newton small. let's talk with this choice between mitt romney, rudolph giuliani, you have gingrich, huckabee. nobody drove them more crazy than mitt romney when they ran against him.

their angle here is pretty clear but it does raise the question donald trump as he makes these deliberations, do they have his ear? does a huckabee, does a gingrich, do anti-mitt romney forces have his ear? >> i think gingrich probably has his ear to some extent. he was an early adopter that got on the trump train early while a lot of other republicans were still dragging their feet. and a lot of this comes down to these are loyalists and these mitt romney in the latter category. rudy giuliani in the former category. one thing i think we have to look at with the devos pick. some of the folks on the transition team executive committee is an appeal not just to the gop establishment but to the gop establishment donor class. obviously, mitt romney has a huge rolodex. probably the best on the right of major donors. devos is a major donor. mercer on the transition committee.

they're major donors that could fund the inauguration and bring along folks that will fund the rnc and possibly a trump re-election in 2020. >> well, both were fierce critics of donald trump during campaign. this was romney back in march. >> mr. trump's bombast is already alarming our allies and fueling our enemies. he creates scapegoats of mexican immigrants. he calls for the use of torture. he calls for killing the innocent children and family members of terrorists. this is the very brand of anger that has led other nations into the abyss. donald trump is a phony, a fraud. his promises are as worthless as a degree from trump university. >> and nikki haley delivered the republican response to the state of the union address this year and she used that speech to go

after donald trump. >> during anxious times, it can be tempting to follow the siren call of the angriest voices. we must resist that tempation. >> you were talking about those loudest voices, the angriest voices. in that context you were referring to donald trump, correct? >> he was one of them. yes. mr. trump has definitely contributed to what i think is irresponsible talk. >> donald trump is everything i taught my children not to do in kindergarten. i will not stop until we fight a man that chooses not to disavow the kkk. >> well, we heard mike huckabee saying, look, donald trump's base, donald trump's voters, his supporters won't stand for this. you can't put somebody in a position like secretary of state like mitt romney who said those kinds of things about donald trump and never repudiated them.

never backed off of them. is there anything to that risk that donald trump would face putting that forward in. >> i think this will be an issue through his entire tenure. especially as he looks at thinking of re-election. it is care taking at that angry base that got him elected and making sure they're taken care of and well represented. he's done that last week with his appointments of michael flien flynn, mike pompeo, jeff sessions as a.g., so you saw him do these really bombastic fire brand appointments. and now he's looking more toward branching out and make bridging to the establishment republicans who he has to work for the next four years. they control congress. these are people who obviously did not want to see him get elected. fought very hard in the never trump groups to never see him elected. now he has to make sure the party is united behind him.

he is creating a team of rivals. if he mix mitt romney and nikki haley in his cabinet, he's creating a team that will debate very vociferously amongst themselves. they do represent two sides of a republican party that he now has to bridge and represent the whole party. >> i get feeling the decision here trump is facing on secretary of state is bigger even than that. not just the question of establishment republicans. talking about the donor class. obviously cheering for mitt romney here. i've been hearing the critics saying this is the signal that would -- not that they're going to be trump supporters but that would reassure that there will be some stability in this administration. >> this is sort of hiring the grown-up to put a really good face on whatever happens, whatever trump decides to do in foreign policy to the rest of the world. as donald trump said his semsel

looks like he was born to play the part of sectary of state. he brings to that office a lot of credibility and foreign leaders especially are very, very worried about what donald trump might do. he is much more isolationist than george w. bush and even president obama. his job will be to reassure our international partners that, no, donald trump isn't going to blow up the world and make massive change. and that's a great face to put on it. it's a calm and reassuring face and it also calms and reassures a lot of people on capitol hill, democrats and republicans alike, who are very worried that donald trump might screw up a lot of our relationships around the world. >> he also doesn't have a ton of experience in foreign policy. it's true. he's a serious guy. he really boned up on it and he pressed the case very

aggressively against barack obama including calling russia our number one geopolitical foe during a debate in 2012. he's a former governor and private equity guy and fits in with this mold we see so far of trump nominees who don't have a lot of subject area expertise let alone relevant government experti expertise. >> is it durable though? if donald trump goes and says something or tweets something that causes a big controversy, is mitt romney going to be able to sit there and not say anything when every reporter is asking him do you endorse what trump just said? do you stand by what trump just said? if mitt romney says or does something that trump perceives as a slight, is trump going to have his back or is trump going to lash out at him? >> on that last part i think everything we've seen not. donald trump likes people who like him. whether it is vladimir putin.

he praised vladimir putin because he said vladimir putin said nice things about him or his reversal on barack obama who he criticized during the campaign that you suddenly has nice things to say about him. he is trying to thread the needle. let alone mitt romney who has an edge. someone who has some air space between them. we will jump on that and note that. and then i think trump given his inclination would be hard pressed to not respond. >> remember, this is an uncomfortable position that is not foreign to or unique to donald trump. look at colin powell in george w. bush's administration. he often times bit his tongue when a lot of the hawks were going into iraq and making this case that there are weapons of mass destruction, he privately disagreed and a lot of those disagreements were leaked to the

press. the big question is -- i don't know that mitt romney is ever going to be an insider in the trump team in the way that hillary clinton was an insider on barack obama's team but he could be a very effective secretary of state the way colin powell was. >> thanks to both of you for joining us. coming up, trump's transition. president-elect trump sounded different in his "new york times" sit down than he did when he was candidate trump. we'll take a deeper dive into his latest comments. trump may be preparing for office but hillary clinton's vote count continues to climb. we'll tell you just how much her lead has grown in the popular vote. an historic number we might be looking at here and getting ready for the big day tomorrow. a survival guide on how to speak to your family members about the

polarizing 2016 presidential campaign and finally, the "hardball" roundtable is coming this thanksgiving eve to tell you and me something we don't know. this is "hardball." the place for politics.

41% of americans say they disapprove of the job the president is doing. we'll be right back.

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>> i will say the "times" is a great, great american jewel. world jewel. i hope we can all get along.

i hope we can look at the same thing. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was donald trump with some rare words of praise for "the new york times" during his meeting at the paper's headquarters yesterday. his op-ed columnist said he wants nothing but than his audience to be impressed and when his audience is a group like us that haven't clapped the way he liked, he sands down his edges. not only did he back off his promise to prosecute hillary clinton and showed that he was rethinking support for torture after a conversation with general jim mattis. here's trump. >> i met with him at length. i asked him that question. i said what do you think of waterboarding. he said i was surprised. i never found it to be useful. he said i've always found give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple beers and i do better with that than i do with torture. >> another example of how trump now appears willing to reconsider some of the hardline

positions he took on the campaign trail. for more now, i'm joined by robert costa and perry bacon sr. political reporter with nbc news. robert costa, you interviewed him. you've been following this guy from the very begin. the trump who showed up at "the new york times" which looked like a charm offensive, how much of that was meant for that room only versus how much of it is a reflection of donald trump moving into a new role now that he's president-elect and no longer a candidate? >> trump throughout his career has always changed his volume level, his settings politically depending on his audience. not that he changes the message or the substance but he changes the presentation. i hear this from people working with him at trump tower. he wants to make sure he keeps the populist conservative side of the party with him. but he knows he has a problem. the establishment and the media and much of his own party is wary of him.

he has to build some relationships and repair some relationships. >> it is an interesting situation. trump has issues with the media, with his critics that robert is talking about but this is a guy that ran outside of the republican party. he has republican leaders who are just as skeptical. this is a president-elect who is more of a blank canvas than any i can think of when it comes to what he's going to pursue. you have the positions he took in the campaign. even during the campaign he was at odds with the republican leadership. now he goes to the "new york times" yesterday. he drops these hints that make a liberal audience maybe get a little bit hopeful. do we have any sense where he is really going to land? >> i don't think we do yet, steve. the interview is striking. he's been bashing the "times" the whole campaign, talking about how they're losing readers and so on. and then praised "the new york times," it's a crown jewel. that was odd. and then he made the comments. if you look at them carefully.

he was asked about separating the business from, while he was president. he didn't make commitments to that he was asked about climate change. he gave some liberal words about climate change. he didn't really commit to it. even on torture, he said he considered changes of view but didn't change his vision. he spoke in ways "the new york times" audience would want to hear. he didn't really change his views. on obamacare, he said he would like some parts of it but it is not clear what he would do. he is still leaving himself a lot of wiggle room on the right and the left. >> right. those comments that perry is talking about about obamacare, they came after he sat down with president obama. and apparently also in this meeting with "the new york times," donald trump is gushing when the name barack obama comes up. so just one meeting with barack obama seems to change the way he talks about him. maybe got him to reconsider some

of what he's been saying about obamacare. i'm curious if you think this is an accurate assessment. is he one of those guys, we've seen leaders before, the last person who gets to them before they have to make a decision, that's the one that will weigh on him the most. that will have the most influence in shaping where he finally come down on something. >> that's certainly a trait that has defined trump throughout much of his life. the politics of this are more fascinating and trump echoing what he last heard. what we're really seeing here is a president-elect who didn't run on an ideological agenda and didn't run as part of the movement right or traditional republican party. and so there is this pragmatism at the core of what he's doing in the transition, in these interviews. it is part of the chaos. you always see, there is this undefined pragmatism that is in

many ways a blank canvas. that's why "the new york times" takes away that impression from their conversation. so does people like speaker ryan and leader mcconnell. they wonder could their own agenda be trump's if the cards are played right. >> he also spoke about the role his son-in-law jared kushner may have in the administration despite accusations of nepotism. >> the president of the united states is allowed to have whatever conflicts he wants. he or she wants. i don't want to go there. jared is a very good guy, a very smart guy. the people know him, he is a quality person and i think he can be very helpful. i would love to be the one that made peace with israel and the palestinians. i would love that. that would be such a great achievement. nobody has been able to do it. i think he would be very good at i. he knows the region, he knows the people, knows the players. and you can put that down in a list of many things that i would like to be able to do.

>> so during the campaign when the subject of donald trump and his business and family would come up, he said, look, if i get elected president, i want the family to run the business. i focus on the country. now he's saying maybe those lines being more blurry long term than he was saying. you have this role for jared kushner on the inside right now. how do you think this will ultimately work out when he becomes president in january? >> what i heard, you heard a lot of criticism about nepotism and then family staying involved in the business. donald trump didn't seem to say anything that he would change his mind or move to where his critics want him to. i heard him saying jared kushner will play pretty big role, even on a foreign policy role. like israel and palestine. that's a big role. he's not listening to that criticism. and he kept saying, he said two or three time in the interview, there is no conflict of interest. the law doesn't apply to me. that is correct technically. that doesn't reassure his critics. he seems to be saying, that he

wants to stay involved in the business in some way and no one can stop him from doing that. i think he is right legally if not morally or ethically. >> robert costa and perry bacon, thanks to both of you. coming up, guess who is coming to dinner? relatives who just love to go there and talk politics. maybe you have some in your family. maybe you are the one in your family. we have a holiday survival guide for you that's coming up next. this is "hardball," the place for politics. energy is a complex challenge. people want power. and power plants account for more than a third of energy-related carbon emissions. the challenge is to capture the emissions before they're released into the atmosphere. exxonmobil is a leader in carbon capture. our team is working to make this technology better, more affordable so it can reduce emissions around the world. that's what we're working on right now. ♪ energy lives here.

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welcome back to "hardball." thanksgiving is upon us. it is supposed to be a time to gather with family and friends and express our gratitude for health, happiness and good fortune. this year's holiday follows the election. some are expecting a few ruffled feathers. sorry about that. 37% of americans say it is likely they'll discuss politics at their dinner. i think the real number might be higher than that. so don't let a political disagreement put you and your loved ones, get ready, in a fowl mood. if you are family can't avoid talking politics, it's best not to wing it. i promise that's the last one. here to discuss how to survive a political debate at

thanksgiving, ron reagan, political analyst and commentator and nancy giles. 37% in that poll say they think this will come up at their family thanksgiving. i think the real number will end up being higher. and i think that's a good thing. one thing that became clear is this idea of two americas where nobody talks to each other. it's a real thing. you get family members. extended family. you'll get two americas together in a lot of cases. how do you keep it civil? what are the keys? >> i'm still in shock. i might as well put that out there. and i've been doing a lot of creative visualization exercises to sort of get me over the hump. by the way, i really liked your wing and feather jokes. they weren't fowl at all. i've been thinking one way to bridge the gap in the conversation is to treat whatever your eating area, kind of in the same way you would an airplane once they lock the main cabin door. check your exits to make sure

you have an idea, if you have to make a hasty retreat. keep your valuables under the seat, a little bit in front so if you need to make a fast exit, you can grab those things and bolt. if you need use some alcohol, make sure you're traveling with a dez freighted driver or have your lifts for lyft and uber handy. sometimes a little booze can smooth over those conversations. >> it can smooth them over but in many cases booze makes it worse. i think that's the question. if it is inevitable it will come up at your family dinner, how does it start? you don't want to be the instigator but someone will bring it up at some point. >> i would recommend not being the instigator. particularly if you're on the current losing side in this election. just let it go. it is also important, a lot of people travel for the holidays. all over the country.

probably very important to check whether you're going to be traveling to a concealed carry state. that will probably be a trump state. and you might want to moderate your discussion accordingly. uncle bob in this case might be packing heat. and you might not want to cross him. i wouldn't know. i would not instigate the conversation. let it come to you. >> let me ask you. the two americas that never get together. your family. that would have been the situation. you're on the left. your dad obviously an icon of conservative republicanism. what were thanksgivings like in the reagan household? >> well, like any other family. i have to say in this particular case, we would not be arguing. nobody in the family would be in disagreement over this particular result of the election. of course, we would have arguments all the time. but presidents' families are like any other family, there is the kid at the table who wants to always be poking dad and all

that stuff. that would be me, often. but yes. it's just like any other family. you argue. it is about keeping it civil. you can have the discussion and there is no reason to pretend that we all have to be in a kumbaya mood after this election. you don't have to go there. try to keep it civil. >> what ron is saying is inspiring me. we go low, we go high. you can always try to mention like nice republicans. and ron's father would be one. eisenhower, another one. who maybe taxed on the high side but we got roads and bridges and the interstate. >> find some common ground. should there be some kind of rule here? this is family ultimately. if it starts getting heated, who can be the hero who comes in and changes the story? a funny story of the family's history?

>> well families without politics can be loaded stuff on thanksgiving anyway. i've been going over phrases like how about those cubs or what's up with kanye? those kardashians. just general things that can get you off of the topic. >> change the subject. >> i'm still literally having problems breathing. going back to the airplane metaphor. i feel like i have to do breathing exercises to make sure the cabin pressure goes down and then i can help others after i've calmed my own breathing down. >> are you feeling any apprehension heading into tomorrow? >> no. everybody at my table is going to be in agreement on this. we're having some fun with this and we should on a day like today, the day before thanksgiving. but this is one of those elections that's different than other elections. i'm old enough to remember the '60s and early '70s and vietnam and all that where discussions got very heated. there have been other heated periods in history.

you can remember 1976 and uncle bob is a loyalist. but this is a different sort of election. it is not just that the two sides of the table will disagree about let's say tax cuts or foreign policy or something. one side of the table is feeling present smug and the other side genuinely worried that we've made the terrible tragic error that will drag our country down. that's as tough thing to swallow. we need to be mindful of that. both sides do. >> wow, that really brought me down. >> it's been that kind of year. happy thanksgiving to you. i appreciate both of you joining us. >> happy thanksgiving to you both. >> thank you very much. and coming up, back to our top story. donald trump stocking his cabinet. roundtable is coming here next. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. have th. same nose. same toughness. and since he's had moderate alzheimer's disease, the same never quit attitude.

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i'm chris jansing. a sixth child has died following this week's school bus crash in chattanooga, tennessee. officials say the driver was going faster than the posted speed limit. president-elect donald trump has received only two classified intelligence briefings after his surprise election. that breaks with a long standing precedent for the incoming leader. and big crowds expected in new york city for the annual thanksgiving day parade. it marks the tradition's 90th year. people already lining up outside. now, back to "hardball." it is my prayer on this thanksgiving, we begin to heal our divisions and move forward as one country shared by purpose and very, very common resolve. this historic political campaign is now over. but now begins a great national campaign to rebuild our country and to restore the full promise of america for all of our

people. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was donald trump in a thanksgiving video released by his transition team, calling on the nation to come together. that video came as trump's unorthodox transition plowed ahead. for more on his transition, i'm joined by our roundtable, joan walsh, raul reyes, and kristin tate, author of federal government gone wild. how d.c. politicians are taking you for a ride and what you can do about it. thank you for being here. i'll start on the trump critic side of our panel. let's talk about what we've got today. we've got a couple new appointments. nikki haley. absolute trump critic during the primaries and during the campaign. a lot of people seeing that as a signal that trump is trying to give. also people looking at that saying that could pre-stage mitt romney who is the king of trump critics in this joining the campaign as secretary of state.

does it give you any comfort or reassurance? >> not really. i cannot believe mitt romney would take this job if offered. he would have to put his conscience in a blind trust. after listening to the clip that you played about what he said. to then reverse that. nikki haley, it is tough for her to reverse it too but mitt went farther than she did and made a campaign out of it. so i'm not necessarily reassured. what i see today, i think they are rattled by the critique of white nationalists being associated with the campaign. we have a woman of color. we have a hint of possibly dr. ben carson and we have another woman. there's a little bit of that. there's also an astonishing lack of attention to any kind of experience. it's really staggering that something who turned down syrian refugees for example in south carolina is now going to be collaborating and representing us with the body that is so

important to the resettlement of refugees wherever we think they might belong. there's a lot of ignorance here. i find that kind of -- >> from the trump critic, let's go to the other end of the spectrum here. kristen, from your standpoint, when you look at mitt romney or when you look at nick nikki hal joining the administration and things they have said about donald trump especially in the case of mitt romney, he said that donald trump is basically fundamentally untrustworthy and unqualified. a level you don't normally see. would that be durable in any way in terms of a working partnership having somebody like that be your secretary of state? >> look, trump will be a very action and results oriented president. he is not king and he understands that he needs to work with other people to get things done. i think that's why we've seen him tone down the rhetoric. to kind of bring his opponents into the fold. and also why we've seen him reach out to folks like nikki haley and mitt romney. people who haven't been his biggest supporters.

he wants to work with all people. he is not a candidate anymore, he is now president-elect. what he's really doing is he's consolidating the republican party. all republicans. i think it's kind of funny that for the last year we've been talking about how the republican party is in so much trouble. there's a civil war going on within the republican party. i think it's the democrats that are in big trouble and we've seen a big divide in that party. the republicans are all coming together. >> surprise republicans running to him right now. they didn't think he would win this thing. raul, what's the message coming out of the trump transition right now that you're seeing? nikki haley with reports of romney looks like ben carson might be joining it. >> i see two. one of them when you look at some of the picks we're seeing today or discussing today, it's basically an attempt by maybe some of the saner heads on the transition team to mainstream a candidate who we know from his own words is a bigot, a sexual predator, has endorsed some of these alt-right groups.

remember, the worst that we know about trump came from him. secondly what these picks have in common, none of them as you touched on, are particularly suited for their job. even mitt romney. donald trump said yes, he looks the part. remember when mitt romney went to europe in 2012? he went to england saying they weren't ready for the olympics. off to the middle east. saying that jerusalem is the definitive capital of israel and enraged the palestinians. then he went back to poland. insulted them. so three gaffes. mitt romney himself is not ideally qualified for this job. nikki haley has no experience. at the federal government level. even ben carson, i can see him possibly in health and human services but he doesn't really have experience. housing and urban development. >> the american people don't want political experience. that's what we learned in this election. they want outsiders. trump is going to get doers. people who have experience in the real world. look at the trump organization. he always hires the best of the best.

and i want to talk about -- >> let's let her finish her thought. >> i think it is really important that we talk about betsy devos. the woman who he chose to be the secretary of education. trump has said that he wants to bring prosperity to the inner cities. that was the cornerstone of his campaign. the way you do that is bringing school choice to these inner cities. and i think that is going to be one way that he is going to mark his presidency and be able to lift all americans up. i think that was a good move. >> it is an interesting distinction. ben carson you had armstrong williams the other day saying ben carson doesn't feel he would be ready to run an agency. if you look at betsy devos, her area she's interested. i can see another republican president appointing her. >> she is such an education extremist. that she will preside over public education is terrifying. >> how is school choice extreme? >> she is not just in favor of

school choice. that's a part of it. >> she would be a pick. probably any republican president. >> i disagree. >> we're in the process now of normalizing -- >> she is a very anti-lgbt candidate. she is someone who -- she is not just about school choice. what she is about is using public funds for private schools and she herself did not receive a public school education. none of her children have. >> i think we would be having the same debate if john kasich whom she supported in the primary for president. he could have appointed her too. >> i don't think he would have. >> we have to squeeze a break in. we're a little late for one. we'll be right back. busy with e kids to get a repair estimate. liberty did what? yeah, with liberty mutual all i needed to do to get an estimate was snap a photo of the damage and voila! voila! (sigh) i wish my insurance company had that...

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on black friday make some time for black humor on a special edition of "hardball" hosted by chris matthews. you can join in at 7:00 eastern as he looks at all the rules that donald trump broke on his way to the white house. we're calling it how not to run for president and win. you can catch that friday night 7:00 eastern. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ style lets you stand out from the herd.

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president-elect trump has now surpassed 2 million votes. much of that margin coming from heavily democratic california where they are sill counting. remember, trump made it to the white house by winning 290 electoral votes, could go to 306 when they certify michigan. nearly 5 million supporters have signed an online petition to urge electors to pick clinton when they vote in december. the chances not good. back now with our roundtable. donald trump will be the next president. hillary clinton will win for actual popular votes. >> right. >> that is a symbolic thing when you look for the actual specific meaning, but from a practical standpoint, next year democrats as the opposition party. will that mean anything practically? >> i think so. i think it will give her some spine. she's going to get about 2.5 million more votes in the end. that's unprecedented. it will cause people to challenge the electoral college. if this were fair system california would have 200 elect rats compared to wyoming. the per capita mismatch given the growth in the blue states,

it's unfair. absolutely unfair. >> what do you make of it? >> you said the election is over. it's done. we have our president-elect. however, we do have researchers from university of michigan, from m.i.t., from stanford saying not that there is any evidence of hacking but that there could be -- >> we should be really careful -- we should be careful with this because when you start looking at the vote patterns they're looking at, they are explained by population distribution. >> but they do also say that there could be. now, this is something -- >> i got to be honest, this one's making me uncomfortable. i saw that last night and i took a real close look at it today. i got to say i can't see anything to this. there were no anomalies in iowa and minnesota and those are paper ballot states. if the kind of things they're talking about were happening we wouldn't see a two-point race in minnesota and a ten-point win in iowa. >> just consider for a second if this situation were reversed,

without any certainty, the republicans would be demanding the -- >> we're talking hypotheticals. i get uneasy going down this road. the roundtable staying with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. they are the natural borns enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile.

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all right. we're back. tell me something i don't know. >> during the last year the media has been trying tirelessly to paint trump as an anti-muslim bigot but no one's talking about the fact that three times as many muslims voted for trump than for romney in 2012. i thought that was a really interesting fact. >> where is that from? >> actually care released this figure. romney received only 4% of the muslim vote, trump got 15%. >> i have a number, 48%, 40%, basically half, that's the percentage of people in the agriculture industry who are undocumented. when we're celebrating our thanksgiving we should think about all those things come from, turkey, sweet potatoes, all those things are labor intensive and they depend on undocumented workers. >> get ready to learn more about the emoluments claus in the constitution because it will be talked about a lot. it prohibits our elected officials from taking gifts or financial donations from foreign leaders. donald trump had the hotel in washington where foreign

diplomats are already staying. he's on a collision course with the emoluments clause in the constitution. >> that will be the last word tonight. >> wow. >> i'm going to learn what that word is one of these days. thank you for joining us. that is "hardball" for now. good morning. welcome to msnbc live coverage on thanksgiving day, thursday, november 24th. it is a busy morning outside our studios in new york city. huge crowds already gathering for the macy's thanksgiving day parade. we'll get a live report from on the ground and an update on security measures with former new york city police commissioner bill bratton. also ahead, donald trump adding more names to his new administration. we'll go live to florida where the president-elect is building his cabinet with some of the very same people who opposed him during the primary. and later, a look at the weather around the country. millions of travelers making that last dash home for the