hello, i'm sheinelle jones in new york at msnbc world heat quarters, it's high noon in the east, 9:00 out west. here's what's happening. cuban revolutionary leader fidel castro has died at the age of

90. cuban president raul castro announced his brother's deaths last night on state television. leading cuba for five seconds after taking power in the 1959 revolution. under castro's leadership, cuba became a single-party state, and the only communist government in the western hemisphere. he outlasted nine american presidents before he stepped down in 2008, among the cuban people, castro inspired a mix of devotion and contempt. his supporters saw him as a social justice icon who brought universal education and free health care for all cuban citizens, but his enemies revile him as a dictator who was consumed with power and who drove the country to economic neglect. celebrations in miami's little havana community may not have stopped last night. thousands of cuban americans took to the streets to celebrate castro's death. the news was welcomed among the community of cuban exiles who fled the country after castro took power. for more on the celebration in

miami's little havana, lest go to kerry sanders. i know you've been talking to residents all day. what are they telling zblou. >> reporter: well, it's a larger gathering by the hour. right here on calle ocho, but among us is the mayor of miami, but he is also a cuban-american born in cuba in 1947. he sort of demonstrates the power of the cuban diaspora here by being the mayor of this city, one in three people of cuban descent. tell us what this means to you. >> the cuban diaspora have been waiting for 50 years, because they saw, in fidel castro, the symbol of tyranny. every family here has been impacted either way. by their grandparents or parents, by someone being in jail, by someone being killed by the government, by properties being taken, so everyone here in miami has not healed and this is why there is so much enthusiasm

here in little havana. and everywhere throughout the united states. >> reporter: it's interesting because of your position as the mayor as and because we're in a city where local government has had foreign policy statements over the years. is fidel castro's death simply symbolic or does it mean something, recognizing that he's not been in power, authoritative power, for at least four, almost five years? >> well, raul castro has governed the island of cuba under the shade of fidel castro, under fidel castro's guidance. and they have shown that very clearly, because once in a while, they put him out, they sew show him to the public. >> so symbolic or does it mean something more? >> it's more than symbolic for the people of cuba in exile, it is a symbolic because he's to blame for everything that happened to many generations of cuba. but i think it -- >> what is the future? >> in reality, the cuban

government is weaker and the obama government and the trump administration should take notice of this. there are people inside, the powers to be in cuba now that are wondering what's next. because everybody believed that the castros will never die. >> well, thank you very much for joining us, mayor. a lot of people wondering what this means, where it goes. and of course, for the moment, you have people who gathered down here, they've been celebrating since early this morning, celebrating what they hope is going to be a new democratic cuba. so many people who were exiled or never even got a chance to see cuba. cuban-americans born here but waiting to eventually, they hope, go back to a country that will be somewhat of a different government, somewhat of a more democratic state. back to you. >> all right, kerry sanders, thank you. the mayor just mentioned, let's bring in ron allen at the white house with reaction. ron, let's talk about what the president is saying on this. >> reporter: well, the president's response is consistent with his policy of engaging the cuban people and

looking to the future and not the past. remember the president began a normalization process almost two years ago, and he visited cuba the first sitting american president to do so in a very long time back in march of this year. his statement, we have part of it here. i can read to you. it says, for example, that history will record and judge the enormous impact of this singular figure on the people and world around him. during my presidency, we have worked hard to put the past behind us, pursuing a future in which the relationship between our two countries is not defined by our differences but by the many things that we share as neighbors and friends. the cuban people must know that they have a partner and friend in the united states of america. now, the reaction to that statement has been pretty sharp. marco rubio, the senator from florida, cuban-americans, called it pathetic, saying it doesn't even mention thousands who were killed and imprisoned. and there's been a lot of reaction from republican leaders here in washington, d.c., and around the country who have talked more about the brutality

of the castro regime, not talking about the future that the united states hopes to have with the cuban people. remember, president obama's policy shift was a really stark change in course. he says, basically, his belief is that the years, the decades of the embargo and isolation of cuba have not worked to change that society and sha government, so his approach was to engage the people. still mixed results as to whether that has been successful or not. but the president saying this is a time to engage the cuban people. he went so far as to offer his codo lens to the family of fidel castro, which won't go down well with some people in the miami cuban community especially. >> all right. thank you. let's bring in kristen welker covering the president-elect during his holiday weekend in palm beach, florida. the president-elect has followed up with that earlier tweet with a paper statement. it's a much longer statement this time. >> reporter: it is. much broader, more in depth. the first tweet, just to remind folks, president-elect donald

trump tweeted out simply, fidel castro is dead with an exclamation mark. then a few hours later, we got this statement. i'll read you part of it. the president-elect writing, fidel castro legacy is one of firing squads, theft, unimaginable suffering, poverty and the denial of fundamental human rights. though the tragedies, deaths, and pain caused by fidel castro cannot be erased, our administration will do all it can to ensure the cuban people can finally begin their journey toward prosperity and liberty. obviously markedly different language from the current commander in chief and of course we know that as a candidate, donald trump vowed to unwind the executive actions that president obama took to start the process of normalizing relations between the united states and cuba. it led to some trade. it also led to flights resuming. lifting regulations on a series of imports. so, the question is, will he want to unwind all of that as the president? of course he has moderated on some key issues, so will we see that now? we're also getting reaction

pouring in from capitol hill, particularly from the cuban-americans community. take a listen to what ileana had to say. >> as news of fidel's death spreads across cuba, we are receiving reports that pro-democracy voekts are being rounded up and thrown in jail, purged from the streets, one last measure that symbolizes fidel's legacy as a brutal tyrant. that is his legacy. >> reporter: and strong words from cuban-americans lawmakers, including marco rubio. let me read you part of what he had to say. one thing is clear, history will not absolve fidel castro. it will remember him as an evil, murderous dictator. the fup of cuba ultimately remains in the hands of the cuban people and now more than ever, congress and the new

administration must stand with them against their brutal rulers and support their struggle for freedom and basic human rights. this was from ted cruz, also, of course, cuban-americans congressman who says, fidel castro's death cannot bring back his thousands of victims, nor can it bring comfort to their families. today, we remember them and honor the brave souls who fought the lonely fight against if brutal communist dictatorship he imposed on cuba. that from senator ted cruz and senator marco rubio brnd so all eyes now on the president-elect and what he will actually do once he enters the white house. >> lot of questions. nbc's kristen welker, thank you. let's bring in former miami mayor, xavier soares. thank you for talking with me this afternoon. as a cuban-american yourself, let's start with your reaction, when you heard the news that fidel castro had died. >> well, there's been a lot of crying in my household. we keep thinking about the people that never made it to this point.

people who were executed, my wife was thinking about her mom dating one of these young men that was executed summarily without any due process, any habeas corpus, any defense attorneys or anything like that. his name was regilio. two of my uncles were sentenced to 30 years. i myself was actually under house arrest, because three militiamen were left with us prior to the bay of pigs invasion, people were incarcerated without due process and my dad was kept in jail, but also my sisters, one of whom was a minor. three of my sisters were in jail also. but hey, this he beginning of the end. it's got to be. and the other shoe has to drob. i said that earlier in your station, and raul has to go one way or the other, maybe the lord

will take him, maybe he will just disappear from the scene. the people of cuba are desperate for freedom, and also from some measure of economic recovery. that economy has been destroyed. it was one of the best economies in the continent, maybe second to argentina, and latin america and central america, and now it's the second worst after haiti. so, that's unfair to the people, and whatever we can do to restore the freedom and democracy in cuba is what we have to busy ourselves with, and this is probably the beginning. it might be symbolic, but it's important symbolism to have fidel out of the picture. his charisma and his -- the idea that he was still behind the scenes pulling the strings, and that raul was a kind of a puppet, although raul is more ideologue than fidel himself. he's more of a convinced marxist, but you know, hope springs eternal. >> there's so many questions, obviously, as you speak, our

viewers are looking at pictures on the streets of miami where people are still celebrating, and they have been, so obviously i guess this is probably what you expected on a day like this? >> yes. we've had a lot of dress rehearsals for this because there's been about two or three times whenre was a rumor that fidel had died. and by the way, the people are being orderly. my son was out there. he's a city of miami commissioner who happens to have jurisdiction over that area around versailles, his restaurant, and everything was totally under control. people are -- a lot of young people out there, you know, and they want to see change in cuba, real change, and this could be the beginning of that, so we're celebrating. >> let me follow up on that. i want to take a look at a statement from florida governor rick scott. hex, "today's news should usher in an era of freedom, peace, and human dignity for everyone in cuba." you mentioned you're not sure how much change can happen under the rule of raul castro, so what is next? what's your hope?

>> well, there's always a possibility that raul will see that he's got to at least imitate, maybe, the chinese model, you know, of having economic freedoms. but even those have been restrained now in the last 12 months. and there's hope that he, you know, he may be more of a pragmatist too. i said previously he's an ideologue but he may not want to leave a legacy like his brother has left of misery and lack of freedoms. so, you never know. you know, he might get religion and something good might happen. if not, what can happen is that as he begins to deteriorate, he may not have the grasp on the military that fidel had, you know? he doesn't have the charisma. he's not beloved by the people, even the communists, i don't think, because he's not a likable guy. so, you know, anything can happen, and we'll pray for that and we'll do everything in our power to make it happen. cuba's civic society has been

destroyed. the churches have very little freedom of movement. and of course all of the -- there's no unions, there's no civic associations. there's no political parties. all of that has to slowly come back, and we're doing our best in miami to help that along, and at the same time, we're helping to maintainhe people. it's hundred of billions of dollars that go to cuba every year. if you don't support family members, sometimes they starve to death. that happened to a friend of mine who was sending money to a brother that was supposed to go to his aunt, and the brother kept the money and she died of malnutrition. the situation there is very precarious so i'm in favor of doing anything that will improve the lives of the people while we get the system back to being free and democratic. the cuban people have a great tradition of human rights. the u.n. declaration of human rights, 1948, the person that initiated that draft, that wrote the first draft, was a cuban

representative, with the haitian representative, and so we have a great tradition of human rights and cuban people are going to realize that eventually that's what has to be reestablished there. >> one thing is for sure, it's shining a light on the situation there. i think a lot of people are learning some things that may they didn't know. >> yes. >> xavier soares, thank you. >> there's a lot more communication. and that helps a lot. >> thank you for talking with me today. >> thank you, sheinelle. >> generations of pain and politics, what cuban-americans want next after the death of fidel castro and the influence the u.s. government has on the caribbean island. [ cough ] shh. i have a cold with this annoying runny nose. better take something. dayquil liquid gels doesn't treat a runny nose. it doesn't? alka-seltzer plus cold and cough liquid gels fight your worst cold symptoms including your runny nose. oh, what a relief it is!

live pictures from havana, cuba, a nation observing nine days of mourning for fidel castro after a reign spanning half a century.

the cuban flag there at half staff. his death is sparking mixed reaction. in miami, look at this. cuban-americans are celebrating the demise of a man they viewed as a tyrant, hoping his death will usher in a new era. others were critical. >> i would not celebrate the death of someone. if you look at it in political terms, there's nothing to celebrate, nothing is going to change. tomorrow, the people that are in jail over there, the people that are being persecuted are still going to be persecuted tomorrow. >> congressional reaction from both sides have been pouring in, and a joint news statement just a short time ago, cuban-american lawmaker ileana ros-lehtinen says a new chapter in cuba history must be written. >> i hope that the new administration under the leadership of president trump seizes this moment as an opportunity to reaffirm its commitment to the cuban people that it will pressure the castro regime by rolling back these

executive actions of the obama administration. >> joining me now is my colleague, joy reid, host of "a.m. joy." good to see you again. i don't think a lot of people realize, you lived in miami for how many years? >> 14 years in south florida. >> so when you woke up this morning and saw these pictures, people are downright jubilant. what was your reaction? >> i didn't believe it because i worked at ptvy. it never turned out to be true. rumors of castro's demise are repeated almost annually. it's sort of a ritual of believing that he died so i had to check multiple sources before i actually believed it was true. >> and then when you found out it was true, what was your reaction? >> i think for so many cuban-americans, it is this psychic burden that they've been carrying, particularly cuban-americans in miami, they carry around this sort of weight on their shoulders that is fidel castro. he kind of lives in their psyche and in their head and i think that his passing really released what you're seeing in the

streets now is not people glad someone is dead. they feel like this burden has been lifted off them. there's an interesting contrast, though, because i think the people who left the island, people who left after the 1959 revolution, and then later on the people who came in the 1980s really were escaping what they feel is tyranny. you can't have the internet in cuba. you can't have free expression in cuba. a lot of people's property was seized when the cuban revolution took place. but you have to remember that there was a period after fidel castro came to power where he came to the united states and toured harlem. >> you were going to talk to charlie coming up. >> absolutely. he courted african-americans because he said, look, the oppression that you're experiencing here is the same oppression that black cubans experience. he embraced the idea of a multicultural cuba, saying that we have to meld white and black cubans, that we're all cuban-american. there is this other aspect for people on the left. jesse jackson's statement was in complete contrast to what people had to say. they see it as a place where you

get health care for the poor, where black cubans were able to liberate themselves through the revolution. but for cuban-americans in miami, it is clear they feel this is a pure dictatorship, that castro is purely evil, skbr jailed and kills their friends, political prisoners there right now. >> it's interesting, i listened to interviews of people this morning. they want to go back, they have family members there. can you talk for just a moment about what the congresswoman is talking about, the fear that trump may roll back some of these things that started to take place. relations have started to thaw. >> one of the fascinating things that happened was during the george w. bush administration, he cracked down on me remittanc and visits home. thinking it would help him. there were cuban-americans, particularly younger cuban-americans who want to go home and visit their grandparents. remember, they had a special dispensation, a certain number of visits that they could take back to cuba and a certain amount of remittances.

when the bush administration cracked down on that, there was a huge backlash on cuban-americans who want more openness so there's a generational divide, you have younger cuban-americans who switched to the democratic party, became more democratic. the reason that barack obama was able to win florida twice is because he did really well among cuban-americans who have been republicans for 50 years >> really quickly, i want to ask you about your tweet this morning. first donald trump's tweet president-elect donald trump's tweets. the first one is, fidel castro is dead. okay. what's your take? and then obviously he released a longer statement. >> i think the second statement was clearly written by staff and the question i have was whether it was stiff from the pence wing, the pence/reince priebus wing that wants mitt romney as the secretary of state. he would be more hard line on the russians. who are friendly with cuba, we're friendly with fidel castro. and then you have the other wing t kellyanne conway, you know, i hate to even mention steve bannon, but that wing of the trump camp that times a more

hardline of rudy giuliani that wants to crack down and undo the openness that president obama has done toward cuba so you have these sort of competing wingsz. that statement felt like it came more from the kellyanne conway wing, which tells me that we need to start thinking about giuliani as the person they try to get through the confirmation hearings. but this is what a lot of people are concerned about with donald trump. he has these streams of consciousness and he has a phone. >> it's not presidential. >> it was not a fully formed thought. it was like, a discovery that he had made at 8:00 in the morning. and that is what people are concerned about, that nobody can reignhat in, that he won't present a face to the world that is dignified, statesman-like, bbc's twitter feed this morning, they were ridiculing that statement. they're going to have to figure out how to get him to change this. >> i wonder if this is like a test. maybe they'll say -- nobody can tell. >> who's going to stop him? >> that's why i stopped talking.

before we go, i want to get your reaction to a post by the clinton campaign, shifting gears just a little bit. saying the campaign will participate in recount efforts in wisconsin now that jill stein got the ball rolling. >> it signals to me that they are happy to let jill stein by the face of this. the clinton campaign is aware that they have questions about how she could have lost these states where she was leading in the polls. hillary clinton didn't even go to wisconsin, they were that confident, pennsylvania, we were talking on the set about the philadelphia suburbs being a lock for hillary clinton to win the state of pennsylvania. they were as shocks as anyone else they didn't win. the trump team was shocked as well so i think there are questions that the clinton team has but clearly, you've heard these reports that president obama encouraged her to concede, there's this sense of, making the country's transition not as -- not more onerous but making it less onerous, making it smoother so i think they don't want to be the face of this. they're happy to let stein be the face of it. but the reality is jill stein's margins that she got in these

three states, if those votes had gone to hillary clinton, we wouldn't even behere. so stein is an awkward face. >> joy reid, come back any time. celebrations on the street, what we were just talking about. we'll here from cuban-americans coming up live from little havana. picking up for kyle. here you go. you wouldn't put up with part of a pizza. um. something wrong? so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? you want the whole thing? yes, yes!

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♪ ♪ gaviscon is a proven heartburn remedy that gives you fast-acting, long-lasting relief. it immediately neutralizes acid and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor-recommended gaviscon. welcome back. i'm sheinelle jones here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. at the half hour, here's what we're monitoring, celebrations in south florida continue as news of fidel castro's death spreads. cuban president raul castro announced his brother's death last night on state television. leading cuba for five decades after taking power in the 1959 revolution, he was 90 years old. nbc's mariana is in miami where crowds have flooded the streets.

what's it like out there right now? >> reporter: sheinelle, i got here an hour ago, and you can just sense the emotion here. people shouting, freedom, they're playing music, they're here with their families. they tell me they have been waiting 50 years for this moment. this is miami's little havana, and there are 1.2 million cuban-americans in miami-dade county but it seems like they're all here in these three blocks and as i mentioned, there are families here because there is a multigenerational event, castro dying at 90, several generations of cubans lived under his rule and that is the case of this family. i want to introduce you to her. why was it important for you to bring your kids to this today? to this demonstration. >> it was important to me because it's a big part in history for them to be aware of what was going on and what our feels have gone through with having this dictator on for so long. being a daughter of a political prisoner of ten years, it's important for me to let them know that this, it's a tragedy, happening for many, many years.

>> reporter: and sheinelle, as you can see, there's just flags waving all around. people walking. tell me, your father, you said he's a political prisoner. what was his reaction when you told him fidel castro has died? >> pain. a lot of pain. a lot of bad memories. ten people to one cell, very small cell, just horrific. >> reporter: let me talk to the little ones. you have your pots and pans here. how are you feeling today? >> happy. >> reporter: they say they're happy, sheinelle. and for families like theirs, fidel castro wasn't just a part of the revolution. rehe wanted, symbolized the revolution so some of these wounds being closed a little today here in miami's little havana. >> essentially it's like a parade. thank you for checking in with us. we'll check in with you again and really, a different atmosphere in havana right now. nbc producer samantha is in cuba. she joins me on the phone.

good afternoon to you or good morning. >> hi, sheinelle. >> when did you get there and tell me what it's been like so far. what are you seeing? >> we arrived last night and i can tell you the mood here is really mellow. people are calm. it's unusual. i just spent 10 or 15 minutes inside a barbershop, chatting with the locals, taking photographs, and they're laughing, and it seems to be kind of a, you know, business as usual. i went down to the revolution plaza earlier this morning, saw military kind of preparing to bring in people to celebrate the life of castro, and his legacy, and from what i'm being told here, you won't see any anti-castro rallies, only really celebrations of him and his legacy. >> i wondered about that. people who may not know a lot object cuba, you talked about gog into a barbershop and you're talking with people, but does it feel like -- you're a great producer. does it feel like they're

telling you the truth? you've seen the essentially pep rallies they're having in miami. do you get the sense that they are relieved or are you not going to get that at all? not going to get any truth? >> i don't think people will outright tell you that they're happy about his passing. but i also don't feel like people are being deceptive. i think for generations, from what i'm being told, you know, it's culturally, people have kind of repressed their political views and feelings and i think it's not common place for people to talk about politics. especially anything against the government. >> this has been very eye-opening for a lot of people. samantha wender, look forward to talking with you again soon. >> thanks, sheinelle. >> all right. the changes cuba has seen in the past few years and what the future now holds for its people. now that fidel castro is gone. we'll talk more about that. when you have a cold, you just want powerful relief.

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is speaking out about the death of fidel castro. joining me now, democratic senator from new jersey. thank you for talking with me this afternoon. >> good to be with you, sheinelle. >> fidel castro's passing like for so many cuban-americans is personal for you. your family fled cuba to escape communism. even though he hasn't been in power for so many years, can you talk about why castro's death is having such an impact on so in people in your community. >> well, you know, i woke up to hundreds of e-mails and texts from friends and supporters who know my long struggle in congress against the castro regime and their dictatorship, expressing joy, but i take no joy today because the reality is

son-in-law. and so you have the son and son-in-law heading these two major entities that do business with cuba and they are both high

ranking officials in the cuban military. so what have we accomplished for the cuban people? i would have liked president obama to do what he did in burma, say you have to permit elections to take place, elect a u.n. special elector on human rights and then you can have a relationship with us. i don't know why the people of cuba deserve less than the people of burma. >> would you want president-elect trump to roll things back, then? >> well, listen, we'll see which president-elect trump is the one that acts on this issue, the one that had originally said he thought maybe it was a good idea to engage cuba or the one though who's later in thinks campaign spoke out valiantly on democracy and hiem rights. i hope it's the latter one because i think if in fact we have a policy that doesn't allow enormous flows of cash to the regime, and stands up for human rights activists, political dissidents and independent journalists that we can see a

new day in cuba. >> thank you for your time today. secretary of state john kerry has issued a statement on fidel castro's death offering condolences to the cuban people and referencing ongoing u.s. efforts to restore relations with the country, say, "we do so in a spirit of friendship and with an earnest desire not to ignore history but to write a new and better future for our two peoples." joining me now the director of cuban american studies. how will this message in your opinion be received by the cuban people? >> well, the cuban people are expecting change, not necessarily the death of fidel castro because fidel castro is symbolic, but it was not relevant to the power in cuba. power in cuba rests on three legs, the cuban military and the security apparatus, the cuban communist party, and also the family of fidel castro and raul castro, who hold significant

power because of their positions. some of the children are in the military. so you do have the castro clan as an important element. raul castro's interested in succession. he's not interested in opening up cuba, bringing cuba into the market. he wants to continue the ideas and the programs of the revolution on and on. he wants a leadership that will maintain the same control as he has maintained. so, he is not in there to reverse the measures that the fidel castro and he introduced in the past 50 years. as a matter of fact, in the next year, we're going to see a great homage to the ideas of fidel castro. you will see children in school repeating the ideas of fidel. the programs of fidel. so, we're going to have a glorification of the individual

as part of the efforts to maintain this kind of revolution. >> well, what's your take? do you anticipate a change to these normalization efforts once president-elect donald trump takes office? i've heard different opinions today. >> well, i expect donald trump to pause on any unilateral concessions toward the cuban government. i think he will try or he will stop the wet food/dry food policy that allows cubans to arrive in the u.s. to remain there. reach american soil or send them back if they're captured on water. there is going to be probably a tightening of the cuban adjustment act passed in 1996 that permits cubans to enter the united states and return to cuba one year. it doesn't make any sense if somebody leaves the country because of repression, after one year, they're going to go back and then they can go back as many times.

so, this has to be tightened, limited, and so on. some of the things that obama has introduced without concessions from the cuban government may be reverted by the trump administration. >> i only have time for one more question but it's interesting for the most part you think right now things won't change as quickly as people are hoping. you can't see it but right next to your heed, our viewers are looking at pictures of people who are just celebrating on the streets of miami. what do you make of that? >> well, that ends very close, very soon, because this has not mean a real change in cuba. the death of castro is a symbolic death. raul castro, who has been with fidel for 55 years, will remain. the military remains in control of 60% of the economy. so, things are not going to change on monday morning. on monday morning, there is going to be a realization, both in miami and in havana, that nothing has changed inside cuba. >> i think right now these folks

here that we're looking at, they're going to hold on to hope at least for now. thank you for talking with me today. leader of the alt-right movement and donald trump loyalist questioned about his speech many saw as nazi-esque. what richard spencer expects from a new administration and charles wrangle on his personal relationship with fidel castro. sorry kids. feeling dead on your feet? i've been on my feet all day. dr. scholl's massaging gel insoles have a unique gel wave design for outrageous comfort that helps you feel more energized. dr. scholl's. feel the energy!

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cuba becomes donald trump's diplomatic test, how the president-elect's influence can change the relationship for the u.s. and the island nation.

now back to politics. the so-called alt-right is drawing reactions from the racially divisive believes some of its members are publicly embracing. here hees how the movement's leader richard spencer described the crux of his mission in an interview with news one host roeld martin. >> i think that white people, europeans, formed the core of

american identity. >> so why don't you go back no to europe? >> i just said the -- being a european isn't just a plot of land. being a european is about blood and spirit. these people formed the core of american identity. what it means to be american is ultimately what et means to be a white person here. >> how so? >> we are essential. >> because the reality is here, dr. king talked about -- >> and i want to maintain that. >> well, let's talk about it. joining me now news one now host and hamanaging editor roeld martin. i don't know what wr to start. i'm shaken by the interviews. so i'll just let you have it. what surprised you most with richard spencer? i started taking notes and then frankly, i had to stop. it made my heart hurt. >> nothing. >> nothing surprised you? >> no. absolutely not. in 2009, when i was at cnn, john of the daily beast, we had a conversation and i said then, john, we are about to see -- we're about to be in the status

of what i call white minority resentment. and resistance. and we're seeing that. this guy, richard spencer, is overt versus covert and we in media have not understood the nuance. so, this guy, he's out there. he's saying crazy stuff. we have to understand, what about the folks who actually think that, but who don't say it. >> but that's why i'm -- it makes me nervous. i asked you, you know, how many men were in that room? they're clapping. i can't see their faces so i feel like when i'm walking down the street, what if i'm walking right past them with my kids? >> but that's the piece that i think we have to come to grips with. that is, listen to what he said when he talked about, well, you know, we're not getting our fair share of jobs and we're being discriminated against in silicon valley and other areas. then i began to point us, wait a minute, what about what's happening on capitol hill and happening in fortune 500 companies? here's what's interesting. in june, this is a story from salon, in june, apnorc,

university of chicago, did a poll. 62% of blacks say they thought america's best days were ahead. only 40% of whites thought so. even the median income for whites is $73,400, what you have is this view that somehow america is no longer going to be, frankly, a white culture nation. and we have to come to grips with that. the changing demographic is also impacting this. there is this fear, this fear that white children are not going to have the same america their parents had and so what richard spencer does, he articulates it, those guys don't exist, but you have to go beneath that. thomas ed sel had a phenomenal piece in the "new york times" this week talking about this very same thing we heard after the reagan revolution in 1984. these feelings have been here, especially among the white working class. we haven't been paying attention. trust me, i have, and this is here to stay as we become more a

nation where no one group is the majority in this country. >> obviously, economic concerns play a huge part in this movement, and what did you think about how he perceived job related discrimination? i'll let you explain. >> same thing. same thing. and that is, there's this view, a study done last year, white millennials said that racism against whites is equally as bad as african-americans. we say, this generation is different. i'm telling you, what you're seeing is you have this particular view that is existing in america that, oh my goodness, it's -- this is impacting us. they're saying this rise with latinos and african-americans and oh my god, my world view is changing. again, we got to break down. when black people hear, make america great again and whites hear it, what does that mean? when you hear, take our country back? well, what do you mean take our country back?

>> black folks think it means -- go ahead. >> it's a totally different view and i think that we've done is let people off the hook. i've listened to these conversations. and read these stories and people say, well, you know, the economic angst of the white working class. well, wait a minute. i just told you. the median income of african-americans is $43,000. it will take african-americans 228 years to catch up with white america when it comes to wealth. 228 years. >> let me play a quick clip and then l me get your take. you talked with him about the recent attention that has been given to this movement. let me let you listen. >> i do think that the alt-right, we have gone from being a movement that was not connected to the political mainstream, not connected to the political fray, we now are. people are paying attention to us. people are looking at us. we need to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that's going to reach people, because we do have that power. >> i have 20 seconds. what's our take away?

>> white fear is real in terms of this changing america, and we in media had better wake up and stop playing this game and realize it exists and not just with the white working class. look at those numbers. the views of also whites with college degrees. i'm telling you, this is not anything to play around with. because america is changing and some folks can't handle that changing america. >> it's definitely not anything to play around with when we all have children. roland martin, thank you for talking to me. what the death of fidel castro means for the new administration and how relations will change. new reactions from donald trump's florida base in palm beach at the top of the hour. isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques.

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