you have access to the world wide web. it's on bloombergpolitics.com. we'll be back here tomorrow, same bad time, same bad channel. sayonara. coming up, "hardball with chris matthews." count the ballots. let's play "hardball". >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. donald trump says the 2016 presidential election saw millions of illegal voters casting ballots. people who were no entitled to vote did so. thereby rigging the election in favor of his rival, hillary clinton. so why would trump make such a claim? why would someone who's won this historic election, who stands on the verge of becoming an american president, want to discourage the very election that brought him to power. we can see why green party

standardbear jill stein would want to chablg the count, but why would the declared winner want to do anything of the kind? it is ludicrous. over the weekend, president-elect responded to reports on twitter that jill stein was pushing for recounts in pennsylvania, wisconsin, and michigan. he called the recount effort a scam and alleged, as i said, massive vote rigging that cost him the popular vote. hillary clinton's currently beating trump, by the way, by more than ii million votes nationwide. trump wrote, quote, in addition to winning the electoral college in a landslide, i won the popular vote, if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally, closed quote. he later followed up, quote, serious voter fraud in virginia, new hampshire, and california. so why isn't the media reporting on this? serious bias, big problem. the allegation of massive voter fraud has been widely disputed. "the washington post" fact checker wrote, this is a bogus claim with no documented proof. california's top election official told "the new york times," trump's claim was absurd. virginia's commissioner of election told nbc, the claims of

voter fraud in virginia during the november 8th election are unfounded. and new hampshire's deputy secretary of state said, we don't have any evidence and there's been nothing filed with our office or the attorney general's office that there's widespread voter fraud in new hampshire. so why is president-elect trump saying an election he won was rigged? nbc's hallie jackson joins me from trump tower to give me the answer. hallie, you're only a reporter, you're only a human being with intelligence to answer a normal question. how on earth does this justify -- what is he trying to do? first of all, the idea of millions -- who are these people? i guess he means illegal people, people here undocumented. you think millions or hundreds of thousands of people walked into a new hampshire voting station, mexicans, who just got here, and they voted and nobody noticed? it's crazy! >> reporter: right. so, so let me answer that, chris, as a human being, which is to say that the question was posed to the president-elect's

transition team, exactly this. he says when the president-elect tweets about millions of people who voted illegally, what does that mean? as one person who is very involved in voter fraud, detection efforts, are these imagi imaginary voters? who are these people? they sent a document that they said would back up these allegations of voter fraud. our unit did an analysis of those documents, that plus research from independent fact checkers essentially debunked those claims. so we are back to the question of, where's the evidence? where's the beef, if you will. this is a similar issue to what came up when donald trump claimed in the general election that the system is rigged and even during the primaries he made that claim, and he is relying now, it appears, on some of the same evidence, again, evidence largely debunked, that he used then. >> is this coming from alex jones? >> reporter: i can tell you this, at least one of the claims appeared on infowars, which is the alex jones conspiracy theory

or website that is often pushing these conspiracy theories. it then, i believe, got linked to drudge. it is possible that's where the president-elect picked up on some of this. we know he likes to go online and read these news clippings, or at least when they're printed out, he reads them. so can you draw a direct link? you can say that these claims appeared on places like info wars and now they are being tweeted by the president-elect to his many millions of followers. >> is it fair to say he's talking about people in the country illegally? because if you come up with 2 or 3 million additional voters, who are these additional voters? if a person walks in the voting booth and wants to vote, they get to vote if they're legal. so these must be people who were here illegally. is that a reasonable assumption? he's talking about the same millions of people that alex jones is talking about. people from below the border, probably, the way they look at it. >> reporter: right, undocumented immigrants who are in the united states illegally, chris. and that is based on some of the documentation if transition team

has provided to back up some of these claims being made by the president-elect, specifically citing one 2014 "washington post" piece that has since been debunked, that put forward some claims that this was possible. >> thank you so much, hallie jackson, great reporting, as a human being, can only do well. thank you so much. just kidding. by the way, happy thanksgiving and merry christmas if i don't see you again, but i will. as a story timothy nahhally told politico today, trump is the first winning candidate to question the legitimacy of the process that gave him the white house. so why's he doing it. john brabender and cornell belcher are here. he's the author of "a black man in the white house." you're laughing with, so you go first. i thought he had a pretty good edge against jill stein. i wasn't impressed by jill stein's presidential campaign. i don't think she got into the argument or even into the conversation. now she's in the conversation with this attempt to a get a recount. she'll get one in wisconsin, perhaps other states. but nobody really expects that to have any impact on their

ultimate result. so why is trump joining the effort to debunk the election results? it doesn't make any sense? >> it is awfully bizarre. but i think there's a method to the madness. look, this idea that we rigged this election, we did a really poor job, away, by the way, rigging this election, if we rigged the election, because he's the winner. but it falls into this category of trump. we saw this whole campaign, if the facts don't go with the narrative he wants to set, he bends them. we are, chris -- >> but why was the motive here? a lot of times he'll say things that make sense -- >> but he's a straw man. and the fact that he didn't win the popular vote goes against this idea that he's a big, strong man and he has a mandate. he doesn't have a mandate here. >> okay, that is an argument. you're making an argument now. but he has a legal right to be president. >> well, according to -- well, he won the election, although

according to him, he's calling it into the question of fraud. but my point is here, chris, i'm not surprised by this, because everybody time something's not going his way, he bends the facts or he rejects the facts. and he's now the president, which is kind of scary. >> okay, this is going to go around the world. he starts say that there's 3,000 illegal immigrants, people are going to believe it. then, who's going to believe it? and people around the world begin to debunk our election, that hurts our country. that we have voters that aren't even citizens voting here. >> first of all, i would first say, i don't think it was a good idea for him to say that. i can't say, there was brilliance in there. i do think president-elect trump had conducted himself very well. but when you get off the campaign, sometimes you instantly snap back to it. and i think during the campaign, trump's reaction was always fight back. i'm not going to let them -- and i think this was an example where he quickly tweeted something out, that has now exploded to some degree, and if you noticed, there's not a lot

of other people in trump land talking about this today. so i don't think this was a planned effort and i think it will probably die out. >> let's put this altogether. you're the pollster, sir. let's talk about this. we know there's going to be a recount in wisconsin. hillary clinton's people has joined an amicus brief. they don't think it will get anywhere. there were other close elections, pennsylvania, 70,000 vote. michigan, you can say. but nobody believes that the recounting process itself would normally make that kind of a correction. that it wouldn't be that different than the first count, enough to justify a 70,000 vote turnaround in pennsylvania, for example. >> no, well, my problem with the third party, folks here now, if you look at the number of under-30s who protested their third party vote and they, in fact, voted for hillary clinton, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. so i've got a big problem with the third party altogether. but long-term, we can't have the president of our country calling into question our process. it doesn't look good for the

country, and it certainly doesn't look good for us. that's not whether you're a democrat or a republican, that's just the office itself. >> the state of wisconsin today announced that it would begin recounting votes next week. green party county jill stein, as we said, has raised millions of dollars from donors to mount the challenge in wisconsin. you have to pay for it yourself, she's also going to pay for it apparently in michigan and pennsylvania. over the weekend, the clinton campaign's lawyer, mark elliott, said her campaign would participate in the recount, as i said. according to elias, because we have not uncovered any actionable evidence of hacking or outside attempts to alter the voting technology, we had not planned to exercise this option ourselves. but now that a recount has been initiated in wisconsin, we intend to participate in order to ensure that the process proceeds in a manner that is fair to all sides. john, what do you make of this? >> that's fraud. that's just making something up. if you look at the numbers, nobody in the world says that there's a problem that's going to change the election. i understand why jill stein's doing it, she's raising a heck of a lot of money, over $6

million so far -- >> but she has to spend it on the recount, she can't just pocket it? >> no, no, no. in wisconsin, she said they can also spend it on building for the green party. so she can use this as a platform. for the clinton people to add to this, i think is a great insult to american people, because there's no value in it. it's just going to divide america. >> but you can't call the process itself a fraud. and i agree with you that, you know, i have issues with a doing a recount. i don't think it's going to change anything. but there are rules here, and she's within the rules and laws here. so i wouldn't call what she's doing fraud. i think it would be more helpful if she had dropped out. >> i think we're in a very weird conundrum for trump. he seems to have a hard time accepting his victory. who was it that ran for mayor of new york. what do you do the you win? i'll demand a recount. anyway, thank you, john brabender and cornell belcher. you're too happy for what's going on in this country.

>> we fixed an election, but apparently we did a really poor job of rigging it. >> be careful of sarcasm. it doesn't work on tv. >> or on twitter! >> you say something on ironic like that, people say, he meant that! coming up, a field of determined candidates led by rudy giuliani are being casting themselves as donald trump's secretary of state. here's a vintage bite of rudy warming up for the position. >> you know, you're really beautiful. a woman that looks like that has to have her own special scent. >> oh, thank you, maybe you can tell me what you think of this scent? >> hmm, i like that. how could you forget that wonderful moment? anyway, the intrigue within trump tower, coming up next. plus, the death of cuba's fidel castro, what of his history will we learn now and what history will we make now? imagine a leader very different from the one just elected here in this country. his name is pope francis, a man

of compassion, whose story has just been written. we'll meet the author. and let me finish with trump watch for this monday, november 28th. this is "hardball," the place for politics. todathese two truck beds.aring let's start over here with this aluminum bed. you put your toolbox up here... whoa! that's a big hole. that is unbelievable. now let's check out the roll formed steel bed of the silverado. same spot, same empty toolbox. took it way better. the steel held up. you don't have to wait until black friday to make a strong decision. find your tag and get 20% cash back,

or, get 0% financing for 72 months on select remaining 2016 silverado double cabs in stock. find new roads at your local chevy dealer. well, officials at the ohio state university say they're not ruling out terrorism, after a driver ran his car into a crowd and attacked people with a knife. at least nine people were injured in the attack. nbc's justice correspondent, pete williams, joins us now with the latest. pete, what do we know now? >> we know that this was a single person who carried out this attack, and authorities are investigating whether anyone else was involved. there's no sign of that yet, they say. the single attacker was a first-year student, a freshman, 18 years old. abdul artan. they say he drove that car on to the just before 10:00 this morning, ran into a bunch of students, plowed into them with a car, and got out and attacked several of them with a knife before he was shot by a campus policeman and killed.

he's a somali refugee, he came with his family, about eight of them, in all, to the united states in 2014 and appeared to fit in quite well, at first. he went to a community college, he graduated cum laude, seemed enthusiastic when he graduated. and then applied and was accepted at ohio state university and began to study there in the fall. he was interviewed by the campus newspaper in august. he said he felt a little awkward as a muslim looking for a place to pray, because the media, he said, often misunderstands what muslims are all about. now, just before the attack today, authorities say that on his facebook page, a posting went up, in which he had a rant about attacks on muslims and mentioned the al qaeda master propagandaist, anwar al awlaki, but authorities say they're a long way from knowing what his motive was, had personal problems and was using this as somewhat of a cover or what, but

they're now investigating social media, interviewing friends and ref relatives, and trying to figure out why he did this. >> i love your reporting. it's the way we have to look at these things, looking at the possible mix of motives. thank you so much, pete willis. we'll be right back after this. . so dad slayed the problem with puffs plus lotion, instead. puffs have pillowy softness for dakota's tender nose. with lotion to comfort and soothe when she blows. don't get burned by ordinary tissues. a nose in need deserves puffs, indeed. now get puffs plus lotion in the squeezable softpack. will your business be ready when growth presents itself? american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office

and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com.

welcome back to. "hardball." donald trump's white house transition is looking -- my business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line.

what's in your wallet? ♪s♪spread a little love my way ♪spread a little somethin to remember♪ philadelphia cream cheese, made with fresh milk and real cream. makes your recipes their holiday favorites. the holidays are made with philly. g new cars. you're smart. you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar.

they are the natural borns enemy of the way things are.

yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. [burke] hot dog. seen it. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

well, it's getting wild. welcome back to "hardball." donald trump's white house transition is looking more like an episode of the reality tv show, you know it, "the apprentice," rather than a presidential cabinet selection of normal days. the two leading contenders to be trump's secretary of state appear to be former new york city mayor, rudy giuliani, we all know him from this program, and former massachusetts governor, mitt romney. trump is also considering tennessee senator and foreign relations committee chair, bob corker, former united nations ambassador, john bolton, and david petraeus. and here's what trump's incoming chief of staff, reince priebus, had to say. >> he's going to be making the best decision for the american

people. it isn't a matter of warfare. there are a lot of opinions about this, and it is sort of a team of rivals concept, if you were to go toward the governor romney concept. >> well, giuliani himself is running his own public campaign for the job, telling "the wall street journal," i probably have traveled in the last 13 years as much as hillary did in the years she was secretary of state. i've been to england eight times, japan six times, france, five times. you can't say i don't know the world. but this isn't the first time rudy showed a little leg to get a job. remember this? >> you know, you're really beautiful. a woman that looks like that has to have her own special scent. >> oh, thank you, maybe you could tell me what you think of this scent? >> i like that. >> this may be the best of all. >> oh, you dirty boy, you. oh! donald, i thought you were a

gentleman. hmm. >> you can't say i didn't try. >> what do you make of that? make your own judgments. anyway, trump adviser kellyanne conway is running the campaign against mitt romney. >> why are you campaigning against mitt romney as secretary of state? >> i'm not campaigning against anyone. i'm just a -- a -- a concerned citizen. i'm not campaigning against mitt romney. i felt compelled to mention it, because i -- it's just breathtaking in scope and -- the number of people who feel betrayed to think this a governor romney would get the most prominent cabinet post after he went so far out of his way to hurt donald trump. there was the never-trump movement and then there was mitt romney. governor romney in the last four years, i mean, has he been around the globe doing something on behalf of the united states, of which we're unaware? did he go and intervene in syria, where they're having a massive humanitarian crisis? meaning, when i say "intervene," offer to help?

i'm all for party unity, but i'm not sure that we have to pay for that with a secretary of state position. again, let me repeat. what donald trump decides, kellyanne conway and everybody else, will respect. governor romney ran for the same office four years ago, and lost spectacularly. it's donald trump who just won 306 electoral votes, won states like michigan. mitt romney lost michigan. donald trump won it. won pennsylvania, won florida, won iowa. >> both romney and corker will meet with trump tomorrow again, actually, tomorrow night at trump tower. i hear that romney's having dinner with trump. moments ago, mike pence, the vp-elect, promised some very important announcements tomorrow. ryan williams ansteve cortez are we me. steve, you're shaking your head. let me ask you about this war on romney. you've got certainly kellyanne has made it clear, she's getting a lot of attacks, no one seems to want him.

you're hearing from that newt gingrich and huckabee, and former governor of arkansas, mike huckabee, what is this that really bugs people about romney? >> well, with you know, chris, i'll tell you this. those of us that are into politics, though matter where you fall in partisan terms, we love palace intrigue, don't we? it's fascinating, and i would say, you know, regarding palaces, the european royal families intermarried a heck of a lot. i'm not sure it was all about love. it was often for political convenience. that might be what's going on here as part of this dance with mitt romney. i will tell you and echo to some extent what kellyanne conway said. when i look at my social media world and when i talk to people, there is almost a visceral revolt against mitt romney, among trump supporters. and i will say, personally, he made my life difficult, as a person who came on air every day to promote the candidates of donald trump, he was a thorn in our side all the way through. i get that visceral reaction. i guess i would also say to those people, to my colleagues and my comrades in this

movement, trust in our guy, in donald trump. but if he believes that he needs him by his side, and if he believes that america needs him, then we must trust in his judgment, and that a team of rivals will work and that he will be but one voice among many. >> aren't you cozy? i'm amazed at your openness to this. ryan, do you think romney voted for trump? >> he said he wasn't going to support trump. >> it's reasonable to assume he didn't vote for him? >> yeah. >> what do you think of a guy asking to be made secretary of state of a guy he wouldn't even vote for. >> he's not asking. donald trump brought him in to speak to him about the position and i think that speeds very well for donald trump. he's willing to put aside personal issues to bring in someone who's a very bright, dedicated personal servant, someone who could personally help this administration. and that speaks well of this administration. go beyond the core of supporters -- >> the concern is that he will be mitt romney, he will not be donald trump's secretary of

state. he won't do what romney -- he won't do what trump wants. >> i think that's ridiculous. anybody who accepts his position, whether it's mitt romney or giuliani or anybody else, will be working for the president of the united states. whoever's in that position is going to follow their lead. and i'm sure they'll discuss it -- >> you never heard of cabinet members being disrespectful? >> i would assume there would be any disagreements -- >> let's talk -- >> donald trump's the boss. >> he is -- >> he's the ceo, the executive. >> i hadn't thought about it, but i think petraeus is fascinating. for example, he's not quite rudy, but he has a rudy aspect to him. there's a tough tonnness to him. a little more street wise than, perhaps, romney. he's very popular on the right, on the hawkish right, without being necessarily a hawk himself. he's not bolton. i wonder if he isn't the sweet spot. that's just me looking from the outside in, steve. what do you think? >> chris, i could not agree more.

if mr. trump were to ask me to be the president-elect, which he has not, but if he did, i would say, general petraeus. i think he has full y rehabilitated himself. i don't think we have to worry about the scandals that beset him unfortunately recently. we look at his totality of the record. his service to the country. i think he the combines the toughness of a soldier with the intellectual rigor of a princeton ph.d, which he happens to hold. i think he's a patriot. he would be a wonderfuler is va vant, and you're correct. he's just hawkish enough. because i think mr. trump does want to restrain foreign policy, but at times, a muscular one. my hope is it will end up being general petraeus. but i believe in him, first and foremost. >> what do you think? >> i think he's an american patriot. i think he's someone who's distinguished himself, made a very bad decision, bad -- >> well, a reporter -- get the facts, a reporter was covering him, he became romantically involved with him. >> and he ended up paying a fine

of $100,000 and got hit with a misdemeanor. >> he was an american patriot and he made a mistake. i think he's a choice that many people would be -- >> would that be a hurdle for trump to name somebody who has been found to have done what he accused hillary of doing? mishandling classified information? >>ic it would be a hurdle, but someone who has a record -- >> i think he would -- >> here's the crucial difference. he fully admitted he did it. he fully admitted he apologized. i think it's a crucial, crucial difference. >> what do you think about trump's thinking here? donald trump's looking at, he's really turned into this an international spectacle. everyone's watching these dinners, these meetings. i mean, these highly qualified people, you could argue about rudy and some of the others, they're all qualified to do this job. they're intellectually up for it. what do you think it's about? he might string this baby out. what's your hunch? or is he going to bring it to a -- we're hearing from the vice presidential-elect, there might be a big story tomorrow. >> i think he relishes the

attention. this is a man who's made his mark on the press for 30 years in the public eye. i think he likes the palace intrigue. i think he'll make a decision soon enough, but i think he likes the attention and the attention the transition is getting. >> guys, great to have you on. this will be part of our theater. thank you, ryan williams and steve cortez. now to the death of fidel castro this weekend. it comes after president obama has worked for two years to normalize diplomatic relations with cuba. reacting to the news today or actually on saturday, the president released a statement saying, among other things, that history will record and judge the enormous impact of this singular figure on the people and the world around him. trump, who's threatened to undo obama's policy towards cuba, was less diplomatic, no surprise. he fidel castro's legacy is one of firing squads, theft, unimaginable suffering, poverty, and the denial of fundamental human rights. and in "the washington post,"

castro left behind him a nation that does not in any public space mourn or even acknowledge the 5,600 cubans who is died in front of castro's firing squads or the 1,200 murdered in extra judicial assassinations or any of those who were jailed, tortured, or died escaping his regime. soon, i hope, the cubans will be given the freedom to understand their path, to commemorate their dead, to begin to undo the damage wrought by decades of silence. i'm joined right now by jose diaz balart as well as soledad o'brien, ceo of star fish media group. it's good to see you. i haven't seen you in a long time. you know, i grew up older than you two guys. i grew up during this thing. i never liked castro. we all liked him when he first came on the stage. we all rooted for him. he was going to overthrow the corrupt batista and then he

betrayed us and his own people, said he was a communism forged his bond of steel with khrushchev and the soviet union, became a vassel state of the soviet union. now, what do you think? what's his legacy? >> his legacy is, he's clearly a dictator who unseated another dictator, and i think you're right. i think a lot of people both outside of cuba and inside of cuba were at the very beginning, rooting for fidel castro and very quickly it all turned bad. immediately he started executing his opponents. but i think that for people who are trying to understand what some of the folks who live in cuba, many of my relatives are still there, my mom is afro cuban, for people who are trying to understand why fidel castro was popular outside of just being a dictator, i think if you're really trying to understand what he -- the complicated sort of list of

things that he brought in addition to being despot, that he brought to cuba, i think you're going to have to peel the layers back a little bit and really understand some of the things that he did outside of cuba and inside of cuba. and i think for a lot of people who say, listen, i don't want to know. he was a dictator, that's gf for me, i understand that. but for people who want to understand more than that, you have to peel back those layers. >> jose, you know, he was good for education and good for health. well, he wasn't good for the health of the people he executed and he wasn't so good for their education after he ended their lives because they dared to speak. to this day, are you allowed to speak politically in cuba? let me go to jose on this. i'm sorry. >> yeah, there's no freedom of speech. i don't really understand peeling the onion, although i know that in cuba, finding an onion is very difficult after 1959, as well as any kind of food there. but peeling the onion, there are some truths and facts, chris, that you can't deny. and the article you just mentioned, the 5600 executions

that were carried out, starting the first of january of 1959, when much of the world was looking at fidel castro as a robin hood, after the dictatorship in -- that cuba had been under, with batista, which, by the way, just to be clear, was seven years. castro's going on 58-plus years without an election. so, i think there's some truths that you can't peel back onions and look at grays. you either kill people or you don't kill people. either there are political prisoners like an afro cuban who spent 17 years in political prison, an aftro cuban doctor wo spent 25 years in prison. if you talk about an afro cuban lady last month, 70 years old, in cuba who was beaten senseless because she was having a study chat with her neighbors about freedom of cuba. those aren't gray peeling the onions.

you either are beaten, you either are facing a firing squad, you're either facing 25 years in political prison for wanting freedom, or you're not. and so i think that it's important to kind of put it all in perspective. there are things to discuss. whether fidel castro was good for, i don't know, foreign revolutionary movements, certainly, what you'd see, the farc in colombia would say that they were very benefited by fidel castro and his government. i think that you would see the tupac amaro group in peru who would say that they certainly received support. and there were a lot of people throughout the world who feel what fidel castro did vis-a-vis the united states is something they look up to. but whether he killed people or not, that's not a peeling back the onion. >> and by the way, no one said that that was a peeling back -- >> no, you did! you did! >> we are absolutely -- >> when you mention afro cubans, you don't have the right to not mention those other afro cubans who have given their life and

who are currently facing jail. >> you and i are in agreement. >> jose, give her -- we only have a little time here. >> you and i are in agreement. >> good. good. >> my mother left cuba. my relatives got on boats to flee cuba. all i'm trying to do is explain to people who are trying to understand fidel castro as a hero to some people, to help them understand some of the contradictions. that is -- i am absolutely -- >> the biggest contradiction is that he promised elections within six months. that was his political posture. >> we are in agreement. we are in agreement. >> soledad, i want to ask you this. uninterrupted now, i want to give you a thought here. i think people would say, cuban people would say he was a nationalist. is that true? was he a cuban nationalist? >> i think he looked out for the interest of fidel castro and the castro brothers. i think ultimately, and my mother who's afro cuban would say, he destroyed her country, he brought terrible things to her country. i don't think he's a

nationalist. i think he was ultimately out for himself. you know, now cuba's in the hands of raul castro and has been for basically ten years. and i think it's been so institutionalized that even after raul castro dies, things will continue to remain the same. i don't think you're ever going to get to a place where you have a memorial in the near future for 5,600 people who lost their lives. because i think the system is so entrenched there. >> let's hope you're wrong. but i tried to make -- i tried to get you to say something nice about castro, you turned down the offer and ended up sounding a lot more like jose. i agree with both of you. i think there's been too much romanticism about this guy in this country that's got to be corrected. soledad, i miss you. we used to work together, remember? >> yep. up next, the "hardball" roundtable on the trump transition. and later, pope francis. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

your path to retirement may not always be clear. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your retirement savings.

so wherever your retirement journey takes you, we can help you reach your goals. call us or your advisor t. rowe price. invest with confidence. ♪ gaviscon is a proven heartburn remedy that gives you fast-acting, long-lasting relief. it immediately neutralizes acid and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor-recommended gaviscon.

feel free to be yourself all day.... just switch from denture paste to sea-bond denture adhesive seals. holds stronger than the leading paste all day... without the ooze. feel secure. be yourself. with stronger, clean sea-bond.

welcome back to "hardball." it's day 19 of the trump transition, believe it or not. 19 days since he won the electoral college, and today's episode is chock-full of wild conspiracy theories over cabinet picks. newt gingrich, a trump ally, told "the wall street journal" that the transition is the only place so far that we have seen him, that's trump, trying to do an open apprenticeship. for more on the trump transition, we're joined by our roundtable, eugene robinson, jennifer jacobs, political reporter for bloomberg politics, and howard fineman, global editorial director for the "huffington post." let's go this direction and it gets interesting over here. why is mitt romney is the apple in the eye or whatever of donald trump? why is he falling in love with a guy who basically treated him like something below the cesspo cesspo cesspool? >> my reporting tells me is partly because it's mitt romney may have been playing hard to get first time around. in other words, when they had their first meeting, based on this person i talked to today,

mitt romney kind of said no. >> is he going to fall for the charm offensive? >> now, wait a minute. this is what i've heard. this is what i've been told now. this is from a good source. >> this is weak. >> and trump's having him back, because i think -- >> for dinner, i hear. >> not only for a meeting, but for dinner afterwards. and i thought, at first, this was just designed to humiliate mitt romney, but i don't think that's true. i think it's serious, and i think donald trump, who likes to have a multiplicity of advisers offering conflicting advice, so that he has the final say, might, in fact, have told himself that this is good to balance steve bannon against -- >> jennifer your thinking about this? why trump seems to be going for mitt romney? bringing him back a third time? >> i think he definitely wants to meet with him again, to make sure they have kind of the same vision. that's what trump has repeatedly said. he's got to mange sure that he has the chemistry with people, make sure they're onboard with his vision.

and trump wants somebody, wants people in his cabinet who will make him look good, look smart. make him say, this is a great president. he had international business experience. he's studied to be president himself. nearly was. >> did you see "groundhog day," the movie? >> yes. >> you notice how the character, bill murray, kept pretending he was in love with this girl, by pretending -- by knowing everything she said the day before and saying it back to her the next day? that's what romney will do to trump. he'll feed him all that trump wants to hear based on his record. he's study right now, what will fluff this guy. doesn't trump know that he's being fluffed? >> i don't think so. and i don't know that he necessarily is. >> trump this is he's the fluffer. >> two words, "muslim ban." i don't know how romney gets past that. i don't know how trump gets past that. even though now it's extreme vetting from muslim countries, everybody knows what it is.

if trump is still determined to do that, i don't see how mitt romney -- >> morally. >> -- morally, as a mormon, as a religious minority, who has very strong feelings and principles about religious freedom, i don't see how he goes for it. >> maybe that's what the dinner's about. >> maybe it is. >> chris, the fact that romney's going back. the fact that he's meeting him tomorrow afternoon and then they're going to have dinner, they've got to be talking about something. these are both business guys. this is bain capital first the trump organization. and they may be looking for a deal. >> jennifer, in the business world, are they betting on this? does this have a high stock value right now? >> this is sincere, on both sides. >> we'll be right back. up next, they'll tell me something i don't though. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ce? use a toothpaste and mouthwash that strengthens both. go pro with crest pro-health advanced. it's uniquely formulated with activestrength technology

to strengthen teeth inside and is better at strengthening the outside than colgate total. crest toothpaste and mouthwash makes my whole mouth feel amazing. advance to healthier gums and stronger teeth from day one. my check-up was great. hei don't want one that's haded a big wreck just say, show me cars with no accidents reported find the cars you want, avoid the ones you don't plus you get a free carfax® report with every listing i like it start your used car search at carfax.com why pause a spontaneous moment? cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis.

let's just get a sandwich or something. "or something"? you don't just graduate from medical school, "or something." and we don't just pull smoked chicken, bake fresh foccacia and hand-slice avocado. there's nothing "or something" about it. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. eugene? never so formal. >> so far from the centers of power, nancy pelosi is up for re-election as leader, and she's raring to go again. she says it's going to be 19 -- 2005, 2006 all over again. >> she's got the best machiavel machiavelli, to be feared but loved. >> announcements, i have heard this morning that there could be as many as eight announcements for trump cabinet posts this week. mike pence just said to expect some exciting, some big, important announcements tomorrow. i would assume that it could be defense secretary.

i know they're closest to that choice. treasury, and secretary of state still working through that. >> i'm waiting for d.o.t., which could be a big one. >> meanwhile, in recount world, it's possible they're too late in pennsylvania. there's a deadline in pennsylvania they might have missed technically. >> you have to go through hundreds and hundreds of -- >> you know pennsylvania, chris. ho they have to cross the ts and dot the is. not sure they did it in pennsylvania. >> i'm still getting that through my head, he won pennsylvania. that was a popular vote, by the way. when we come back, a new look at the un-trump, i'm calling him. catch this, pope francis. think of anybody least like donald trump. he's in the vatican. we'll be right back after this.

welcome back to "hardball" at a time this country's worried about the arrival of donald trump as president, many are, given his attacks on immigrants, the world's largest christian church is headed by a very

different man, pope francis. since the time of his election in 2013, he's won the regard and affection of all religions, he's inspired the hopes of those concerned by the values espoused by donald trump and his campaign. as american biographer mark shriver explores. the new search for pope francis. book, "pilgrimage," my search for the real pope francis. you're the first american and the values of this pope. tell me how they are different. >> i think the pope and go to the frontiers and bring people in, to talk to them, be with them, not just the poor financially or spiritually. those suffering psychologically, emotional problems. that's what he's talking about.

he wants people to go to the edges, to the frontier and bring people into the conversation. and if that's the difference, we should all adhere to it. >> stop building walls, yeah. >> and i saw the movie of course and it's a fascinating of going at and finding the right pope, the one who has papa but in this case something they were looking for and found in pope francis. how does that work? >> he's a pastor. over the 20 some plus years he was bishop and cardinal, he showed time and again he was reaching out to the poor, to the powerless and i think they looked at what had happened over the benedict papacy and saw they needed someone who could really reach out to the masses and bring people back to the church, not as nocturnal or strict.

the guy who cared about the environment and the poor, they chose the right guy. >> they have different rings to them. >> they sure do. >> a lot of people of different religions seem to like this pope even though they are not connected to him in terms of religious faith per se. who am i to judge, lgbt community people, divorced people, he seemed to be opening his heart to them. >> absolutely. and, you know, it's not just inner faith dialogue that they do once or twice a year. i talked to a number of rabbis who told me that the pope went out and visited their synagogue and got off public transportation, walked three blocks, drenched in sweat, spent time talking to their parishioners. that's the kind of guy he is. he's reaching out to jews, muslims, atheists. >> yeah. >> and he's not judging and that's a great thing.

i mean, he tries to get folks to really have a personal relationship with god and that's what the book is about. >> the style of maybe citizen cane, the movie, the pilgrimage but it's about going on the road, hitting the road and in journalism, you have to go there. you have to go up and find a place and get the story. what was the story that surprised you back in the hills of -- beyond buenos aries? when did you find him, the pope? >> well, i found -- really, i thought the most stunning one was the fact that he was exiled for a couple of years from buenos aries because he was an authoritarian man or his toughness on people. some jesuits loved him. another group of people really honestly despised him and he spent two years out in deep

interior crisis and prayed and didn't have much responsibility after coming from a very powerful position. you get a great sense of who the guy is coming out of that and that's -- he reached out to people and involved others in the decision-making process. he really -- it's interesting, he said that whenever he stays with a decision, he never goes with his gut reaction because he's usually wrong. >> they say that about golf. i wouldn't know. don't do what's natural. pilgrimage, to be a roman catholic like us, i think at christmastime, this is the book. i'm just being commercial here. if you're not, take a look at the bookstore. it's got texture and brings you into the heart of a guy. i think it's a hell of a book. thank you, mark shriver. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> when we return, you're

watching "hardball," the place for politics. your insurance company won't replace the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says, "you picked the wrong insurance plan." no, i picked the wrong insurance company.

with new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance.

let's just get a sandwich or something. "or something"? you don't just graduate from medical school, "or something." and we don't just pull smoked chicken, bake fresh foccacia and hand-slice avocado. there's nothing "or something" about it.

trump watch, monday, november 28th, 2016. we're all watching television now. we're all caught up in this special episode of "the apprentice." five hopeful contestants sit there all in a row and donald trump sits behind his large desk awaiting for their application. it's an audition for a role and what each of these five men might do for him the next four years. rudy giuliani is the most game of course.

after all, he was there in the foxhole when he was taking fire from every direction. he proved himself in battle. can that be said for any other contestant? mitt romney acts as if being who he is is the country's highest position. wasn't he born to this rank? doesn't his air of superiority justify him getting this superior post? there are other candidates. general david petraeus would be taken seriously and show that donald trump has the guts and grace to pick someone known to have made a mistake. much as general eisenhower gave george patton a second chance after he slapped that malingering soldier. senator bob corker made sense because he knows foreign relations. in fact, shares the foreign relations committee. he would start with a burst of trust because his fellow senators would show him trust. john bolton would be a disaster, a reverse on all that trump proclaimed during the campaign about the iraq war and the rest of the regime change business. he's a personification of this regime change business. so we continue to watch the

statesman apprentice hoping that the one you're rooting for or certainly rooting against, their past performance and winners is not someone that donald trump likes the cut of his jib. and that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> we deserve to have peace of mind. >> the recount advances in two states as donald trump fabricates widespread voter fraud. >> the system is rigged. >> tonight, the implications of the president-elect mainstreaming conspiracy theories. then, the latest "new york times" report on the growing global conflicts of interest for donald trump. >> i have little conflict of interest and major building and senator chris murphy on donald